Military Review

"I want to be buried in Red Square ..."

86
"I want to be buried in Red Square ..."


The name of Kliment Voroshilov was called cities and factories, Tanks and ships. Songs were written about him, and each pioneer dreamed of earning the honorary title of Voroshilovsky shooter. He was a symbol of the Soviet dream - a simple locksmith who became the people's commissar of defense and even the head of state.
But the recent 135 anniversary of the national idol no one noticed.

Young "rebel"

In April, the commanders of the Red Guard units gathered at the Rodakovo station near Lugansk in April. The situation was serious: from the west, the Germans pressed the steel roller, from the east, the Cossacks Ataman Krasnov pushed on. Only the unification of forces could save the Reds, but it was not easy to choose a common commander. Gradually one name broke through the chorus of voices: "Klim! Let's choose Klima!" We pushed forward a short, strong man in a leather jacket and greasy boots.

“Well, quit,” he unlocked. - What is my military?

- Do not play the fool, command! - rushed in response.
Finally he waved his hand.

- Only I have a short conversation. Not afraid to die - go, afraid - to hell!

So Klim Voroshilov became the commander of the 5 th Soviet army. Later it turned out that he had been preparing these elections for two weeks, persuading, and sometimes intimidating, the riotous red leaders. It looks rustic, even naive, he had remarkable cunning and iron will.

And without these qualities I would not have lasted so many years on the political Olympus.

Comrade Volodya


Voroshilov was born in January 1881 in the Luhansk region, in the village of Verkhnee - today is the city of Lysychansk. In his memoirs, simply titled "Stories about Life," he recalled the pictures of childhood: the endless steppe with heaps of mines, the wooded shore of the Seversky Donets, the ever-hungry horde of brothers and sisters. Father Efrem Andreevich was a quick-tempered man, he did not tolerate injustice, therefore he did not succeed in life. Losing one job after another, he ended up in the penny position of a trackman. Silent prayerful mother Maria Vasilyevna meekly endured poverty and beating her husband. She hired cooks, laundresses, and when there was no money at all, she sent the children to beg. When he was seven years old, Klima was given to the shepherds, and then to the mine, where from morning till evening for 10 kopecks a day he selected rock from mined coal.

An accidental acquaintance, teacher Ryzhkov, arranged for a guy to go to school, and then to a metallurgical plant in Lugansk. And then - everything, like many: the Social Democratic circle, participation in rallies and strikes, the party pseudonym Volodya, denunciations to the police, the transport of twenty smuggled revolvers to Rostov, a meeting with Lenin in Stockholm at the IV Congress of the RSDLP. After getting acquainted with the real, Volodya made a real revolution with the burning of the prison in Lugansk. Arrest, three years of northern exile ...

And crazy love for the black-eyed Golda Gorbman, the daughter of an Odessa broker, exiled to Kholmogory for participating in the Social Revolutionary underground.

According to the laws of that time, exiles could get married if the bride accepted Orthodoxy. Golda agreed and became Catherine. They lived together for almost half a century, and Voroshilov, a rare case for Bolshevik leaders, was faithful to his wife. Even after an unsuccessful operation on the thyroid gland turned her into a heavy, swollen old woman. Their family idyll was spoiled only by the absence of children. However, not for long: in Tsaritsyn, they adopted three-year-old Petya, whose parents shot whites. Then - nine-year-old Lenya, son of the factory comrade Klima. Then - the children of the deceased Mikhail Frunze Timur and Tatiana.

All of them Voroshilov raised as their children, and all the sons later became military.

Commander


Having retreated to the Volga with the 5 Army, the newly appeared commander adopted the 10 Army, which defended Tsaritsyn from the White. Through this city lay the only way connecting the Soviet Republic with the outside world. Here Lugansk fitter and proved himself for the first time in all its glory - led the fighters to attack with a revolver in his hand, pushing the lagging behind with foul language and kicks. And after the fights, he relaxed so that even in the Pravda newspaper in paints it was reported how drunk Voroshilov in Tsaritsyno rolled the girls in threes, danced the mistress, and then fought with the patrol, who appeared to take him off. And thus, "discredited Soviet power."

The article was published at the suggestion of Trotsky, with whom relations did not immediately develop. The all-powerful narkomvoena was irritated by the independence of the "red general" who could not stand the former royal officers. Troops Voroshilov sent from Moscow instead of headquarters were sent to prison, which overwhelmed Trotsky's patience. Klima was sent to Ukraine, where everyone fought against all: white, red, Petliurists, Makhnovists, countless gangs of "greens".

In this mess, Voroshilov felt like a fish in water.

He relied on Semyon Budyonny and his 1 Cavalry Army, which was not typical for the Soviet canons: it replenished and fed at the expense of the local population, in the occupied regions behaved like a gang of robbers, and courage and loyalty to its comrades were valued above all. Voroshilov and here deserved respect, participating on a par with everyone in equestrian attacks; in the saddle he was not so good, but he shot perfectly and gave commands in a thunderous voice.

Budyonny recalled:

“Kliment Efremovich, by nature hot, changed in the battle and became unusually cool. By the look of it, it seemed that he was not involved in the attack, where he could be killed, but as if in a sports competition.”

In March, 1921 of the year, at the head of the consolidated detachment of delegates of the Tenth Party Congress, went to suppress the Kronstadt insurgency ahead, without hiding from bullets. And miraculously remained intact: the losses among the storming (as usual under the command of Voroshilov) were enormous.

Commissar of Defense


Tukhachevsky, the recognized leader of the army's progressives, spoke of Voroshilov: "Of course, he is very dubbed, but he has that positive quality that he does not climb into the wise men, and he readily agrees with everything."

Voroshilov agreed with Stalin, who demanded an early restructuring of the army. The new Commissar of Defense led the 15 army for years, during which mass production of weapons was established. If in the 1928, there were only 9 tanks in the Red Army, then in 1937 there were almost 17 thousands, more than in any other country in the world. The Pacific and Northern fleets were created at sea frontiers, the construction of torpedo boats and submarines began. Often they talk about the role of Tukhachevsky in the creation of airborne troops, but Voroshilov is no less merit in this. However, when Budyonny suggested that he jump with a parachute himself, the 50, the summer people's commissar, chose to refuse (Budyonny jumped, for which he was reprimanded by Stalin).

He agreed with the leader in 1937, signing as "a firing list" for thousands of compatriots as a member of the Politburo. And sanctioning the arrest of officers, never once stood up for someone. When it came to his longtime adversary Tukhachevsky and his colleagues, Kliment Efremovich brought out the resolution on the list: "Comrade Ezhov. Take all the scoundrels." In the letter, one of the "scoundrels", Jonah Yakir, assured Voroshilov of his innocence. He, who was friends with Yakir families, scribbled on the letter: "I doubt the honesty of a dishonest person."

He felt narko skin: a protest against repression and even insufficient zeal could make him the next victim.

It was rumored that when the Chekists came to arrest Catherine Davydovna, he with a gun in his hands forced them to retreat. In fact, the husband would meekly give his wife, as many of his associates did, but Stalin did not encroach on her. It seems he was convinced of the absolute loyalty of the "first marshal."

And it was not saved by the "small victorious war" with Finland, which turned into huge casualties. After the "debriefing" in May 1940, the post of Commissar of Defense was taken by Marshal Timoshenko.

In the war and after


On the Western Front, he was engaged in the usual business - inspired and punished. When neither one nor the other helped stop the onslaught of the Germans, the marshal was transferred to Leningrad. There, he still managed to detain the enemy and even organized a counteroffensive under the Soltsy, surrounding the tank corps of Manstein. Out of habit, a soldier walked in a line — with a gun on German tanks. But in this war the “cavalry” methods no longer worked. The Germans closed the blockade ring ...

But the diplomat from him turned out much better than a strategist. Voroshilov led difficult negotiations on a truce with Romania, Finland, Hungary - without knowing a single language, he easily found a common language with representatives of various countries. And he was completely at ease after Stalin's death, when, instead of faceless Shvernik, he was appointed Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet. Formal head of state! In this position, he traveled the whole world, receiving many gifts - a pagoda of rock crystal from Mao Zedong, a carved elephant tusk from Ho Chi Minh, a golden cigarette case from Marshal Tito ...

And only in his old age, the over-cautious Voroshilov blundered, joining the "anti-party group" of Molotov and Kaganovich. I had to repent humiliatingly, and he was spared - perhaps because he was painfully worried about the recent death of Catherine Davydovna. She had cancer ("crustacean", she said), and the spouse spent long hours near her bed, sang her favorite songs, tried to cheer. Maybe it was only with her that he was sincere in his life ...

3 December 1969, Kliment Efremovich, died a little before 89 years. When he was accused of conformism, he invariably answered:

"I do not quarrel with anyone - I want to be buried in Red Square."
The dream came true: Twice the Hero of the Soviet Union, the Hero of Socialist Labor, the gentleman of more than 200 orders and medals from different countries rests near the Kremlin wall next to Budyonny, who briefly outlived him.
Author:
Originator:
http://rg.ru/2016/04/24/rodina-voroshilov.html
86 comments
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  1. baudolino
    baudolino 8 May 2016 07: 55
    .
    This Bolshevik habit of burying his dead is annoying wherever he gets. They arranged burials in the most inappropriate places, and then they are offended that there is no proper respect.
    1. ele1285
      ele1285 8 May 2016 11: 12
      +4
      Quote: baudolino
      This is the Bolshevik habit of burying their dead.

      Aphids, you will not believe, we bury.
      But you dig. You, aphids, Khokhlosaurs and lands are not worthy.
      Your fate Mazepa and Grushevsky.
      Where they feed there and with reta.
      1. str. 1968
        str. 1968 8 May 2016 20: 38
        +6
        Not all, far from all.
        Although specifically this is possible.
        I think he is very young, or hl.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 8 May 2016 16: 26
      +5
      They wrote their story. And the people did. The people followed the locksmith or companion faster than the white general. They taught in World War I to receive in the muzzle, but to moan under ramrods. The time was different and the people were different. It's not for us to judge them.
      1. bionik
        bionik 8 May 2016 17: 31
        +4
        Quote: siberalt
        The people followed the locksmith or fellow traveler faster,

        But Zhukov was a furrier.
      2. jktu66
        jktu66 9 May 2016 01: 23
        +3
        My grandfather on the cruiser Voroshilov fought. Father served at the BOD Tymoshenko.
    3. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 9 May 2016 18: 55
      -1
      Quote: baudolino
      This is the habit of the Bolsheviks to bury their dead wherever annoying

      and kaklams their corpses, you can throw der.m.o.m .. anywhere ... (applaud)
  2. Beefeater
    Beefeater 8 May 2016 08: 08
    +5
    Looked good in peacetime in parades
    And how did the war come
    In the situation with Leningrad there is a share of his guilt. By the way, a considerable share. His only achievement is Stalin's friend.
    He spent the whole war on the insignificant role of the head of the partisan detachments, something between an agitator and an intendant
    The Great Soviet Encyclopedia briefly outlines the military path of Voroshilov — a Soviet state, party and military leader, Marshal of the Soviet Union, Twice Hero of the Soviet Union and Hero of Socialist Labor. We read: "Together with Dzerzhinsky, he worked on the organization of the Cheka."
    The famous author of the monograph "Red Marshals" Roman Gul describes the work of Voroshilov in the Cheka:
    “The head of the Cheka, Dzerzhinsky, at first glance at Voroshilov, realized that“ this metalworker was not suitable for his delicate business ”. And the party removed him from Dzerzhinsky. ”
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 8 May 2016 12: 48
      +9
      Quote: Beefeater
      In the situation with Leningrad there is a share of his guilt.

      What is this? That he was recalled in the 41st, and at the end of the 42nd he began to prepare for the deblockade operation?

      Quote: Beefeater
      He spent the whole war on the insignificant role of the head of partisan detachments

      those. it is very bad that he coordinated the fragmented actions of the partisan underground that made the Germans unbearable and disorganized their rear areas, distracting entire armies from the front?

      Quote: Beefeater
      Famous author of the monograph "Red Marshals" Roman Gul

      A person who quietly emigrated and drank coffee in Paris in difficult times for the country, and then in America?
    2. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 8 May 2016 15: 36
      +13
      Well, what can the White Guard Roman Gul write about the red marshals who kicked them out of Russia
  3. dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 8 May 2016 08: 10
    +14
    I agree with the author that Kliment Voroshilov was not deservedly forgotten. Well, he did not prove himself during the Great Patriotic War .. And who of them was able then? Of the first marshals, no one. They were heroes of their time and defended their homeland as they could.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 8 May 2016 08: 41
      +7
      SEMYON MIKHAILOVICH BUDENNY excellently showed himself at the beginning of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR, and his students are very worthy, just could not * give * themselves.
      1. Volga Cossack
        Volga Cossack 8 May 2016 10: 29
        +6
        I fully support !!! now it’s fashionable to pour dirt - and just like that - stealthily .... already on the eve of Victory Day - at least not necessary.
        1. Roman 11
          Roman 11 8 May 2016 17: 26
          0
          Quote: Volga Cossack
          I fully support !!! now it’s fashionable to pour dirt

          Pouring dirt? And what to rejoice that the country was almost lost? Yes, it’s not just pouring dirt on one’s history, well, let’s say that white is black and then the borders will change again after 1917 and 1991, and then what? Who do you want to trick? Myself already deceived ....
      2. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 8 May 2016 11: 07
        +5
        I don’t want to polymerize with you before the Great Victory Day about the role of S.M. Budenny at the beginning of the war ... His role in the south in 1941, and in the North Caucasus in 1942 is very contradictory ..
        Quote: Vasily50
        SEMYON MIKHAILOVICH BUDENNY excellently showed himself at the beginning of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR, and his students are very worthy, just could not * give * themselves.
      3. Roman 11
        Roman 11 8 May 2016 17: 16
        +1
        Quote: Vasily50
        SEMYON MIKHAILOVCH BUDENNY perfectly proved himself at the beginning of the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR

        What are you? Budyonny darted to the Volga leaving the cauldrons to please Stalin - and a total of 8,866 thousand dead in the war! These valiant warriors at best retire, and the sooner the better - the games are unbearably expensive - 1/5 combat troops (army) and 1/4 territories are lost, and given the quality of this land and population density, read 1/2!

        Do you find it easier to believe in crap and fables or real, officially published data?
        If the victories of the "horsemen" are flattering, look at the map of the fronts in autumn 1942 and about 9 million killed (an absolute record of wars in history).
        1. Severomor
          Severomor 10 May 2016 01: 43
          +4
          Quote: Novel 11
          What are you? Budyonny darted to the Volga leaving the cauldrons to please Stalin - and a total of 8,866 thousand dead in the war! These valiant warriors are retired at best, and the sooner the better - games are unbearably expensive

          If according to Solzhenitsyn, Svanidze and Mlechin, then yes, complete mediocrity.
          And if you turn on the brains and read the same Halder (Colonel General. Chief of Staff of the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht in 1938-1942.)
          AND? Weak to quote what fools they are?
          And at the same time, to calculate which general is most mentioned by Halder autumn-winter-spring 41-42 ????
          Or are they only capable of gutturing without arguments?
          1. bakhshiyan rachik
            bakhshiyan rachik 21 October 2016 18: 58
            0
            Budenny's horsemen put cancer on vaunted German soldiers
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. moskowit
      moskowit 8 May 2016 08: 59
      +12
      Totally agree with you. We, to our great regret, judge the past historical figures from today's "bell tower", from today's reality. And very often, possessing today's knowledge and information, we involuntarily produce a projection of that distant into the present reality ... And our time always has its own heroes, often not very clear to us stereotypes of behavior and so on, so on, so on ... Then we very often we use borrowed knowledge that expresses the personal point of view of the authors, it is good if convinced, and often opportunistic ...
  4. gunter_laux
    gunter_laux 8 May 2016 08: 11
    +6
    I read the article and at a loss ... In childhood and adolescence they admired him. Now - turned out to be a shitty shooter? Can dig and dig?
    1. bionik
      bionik 8 May 2016 09: 15
      +6
      Quote: gunter_laux
      Now - turned out to be a shitty shooter?
      Now Russia has reintroduced the standards of the TRP. In the sphere of recent events around our country, can a similar sign (modern standards, etc.) be revived, as was, for example, in the USSR "Voroshilovsky shooter"?
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 8 May 2016 21: 47
      +5
      Quote: gunter_laux
      read the article and at a loss ... In childhood and adolescence he was admired. Now - turned out to be a shitty shooter? Can dig and dig?

      Everything is very simple: at the time of the Civil War, they were young and consistent with the trends of the time. At the time of the Great Patriotic War, improvisation alone was not enough. He didn’t have any kind of higher command education. Probably a Guinness book record: Minister of Defense with the formation of a 3rd grade Zemstvo school
      1. excomandante
        excomandante 9 May 2016 12: 00
        +6
        I’ll tell you a terrible secret - not a single German field marshal had a higher military education. In general, as such, they did not have military schools. It was necessary to begin as an ordinary, and then, if he moved forward, periodically undergo various short-term courses. By the way, Stalin did not have a higher education, and Churchill had a cavalry school))))
  5. Beefeater
    Beefeater 8 May 2016 08: 17
    +4
    Let us turn to the documents that characterize the activities of Voroshilov at the turn of 1918 - 1919. Here is the text of the telegram of Trotsky, Chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic: Moscow, to the Chairman of the CEC. A copy of the Presnarkom Lenin.
    “Voroshilov can command a regiment, but not an army of fifty thousand soldiers. Nevertheless, I will leave him the commander of the tenth Tsaritsyn army on condition of submission to the commander of South Sytin.
    We have successes in all armies except the South, especially Tsaritsynska, where we have a tremendous superiority of forces, but complete anarchy at the top. You can cope with this in 24 hours, subject to your strong and determined support. Trotsky. "

    Voroshilov, an illiterate locksmith, by his own admission, he studied at the school only “two winters”, fully justified Trotsky’s description. Having no idea about the principles of organizing and recruiting modern armed forces, Klement Efremovich distributed partisans in the Red Army and, fearing losing his post, fiercely persecuted "military specialists" - experienced officers and generals of the tsarist army. Voroshilov was recalled from Tsaritsyn and sent to Ukraine. This is the result of his work in Tsaritsyn.
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 8 May 2016 12: 39
      +1
      The last thing to believe in is Trotsky.

      Quote: Beefeater
      We have successes in all armies except the South

      Yeah, and favorite Tymoshenko about *** l Polish campaign.
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 8 May 2016 13: 02
        +2
        Quote: ShadowCat
        Yeah, and favorite Tymoshenko about *** l Polish campaign.

        ugh, what am I messing up with today. You have to do one thing. Not Caesar (s)

        He spoke about Tukhachevsky.
      2. veteran66
        veteran66 9 May 2016 20: 23
        +1
        Quote: ShadowCat
        The last thing to believe in is Trotsky.

        why is this, sorry? The Civil War was won by the Reds (unfortunately) only thanks to him.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 8 May 2016 12: 55
      +4
      Quote: Beefeater
      Voroshilov - an illiterate locksmith

      During the peak years of the repressions of 1937-1938, only two of the 5 marshals of the Soviet Union survived: K.E. Voroshilov and S. M. Budenny. About why he survived, S.M. Budenny openly expressed in 1937 to the commander of the horse corps Gorodovnikov. At the meeting, Gorodovnikov said:
      - “Semyon, see what is being done!” Everyone is taken in a row.
      - Do not be afraid, you and I will not be touched. They only take smart ones. ”
    4. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 8 May 2016 15: 27
      +1
      soldier only the Red Army beat the White Guards, who all knew about the principles of organization and manning of the armed forces
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 8 May 2016 15: 37
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        soldier only the Red Army beat the White Guards, who all knew about the principles of organization and manning of the armed forces

        In the red army, former tsarist officers and soldiers served.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 8 May 2016 16: 45
          +2
          And in white there are green men from the planet Tmutarakanka.
        2. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 8 May 2016 19: 09
          0
          Well, according to your comments, the Bolsheviks exterminated all the officers, as it is not so! winked
          1. Basil50
            Basil50 8 May 2016 20: 39
            +3
            Nonsense about the 37th year, this is only for the level of the mud-headed Khrushchev. There are documents, have you really forgotten how to read? Yes, and the processes were open. Here are just jokes and foreign * authorities * with * smart * facial expressions for some reason more important than the original source. So soon there will be links to cartoons or to the next * Psaki *.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 9 May 2016 06: 48
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Murzik
        only the Red Army beat the White Guards, who all knew about the principles of organization and manning of the armed forces

        And you calculate the balance of power a little
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 9 May 2016 15: 02
          +3
          But what about the Entente soldiers? laughing and why did the bulk of the people of Russia follow the "bloody" Bolsheviks, locksmiths, furriers!
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 9 May 2016 17: 23
            0
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            But what about the Entente soldiers?

            Yes, you can with them, although they practically did not participate in active clashes, and they simply threw Wrangel. The Bolsheviks convinced that it was more profitable to be friends with them.
            As for the second, they also went for Yeltsin. Populism is a contagious thing. You promise a delicious gingerbread, follow anyone. There is an example for this.
            In general, the term "went" is somewhat vague. Most of the intelligentsia and the peasantry wanted to sit quietly in their gardens and cellars, they didn't give a damn about political trends, I would live. And some had the audacity to even organize uprisings
            1. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 9 May 2016 17: 44
              0
              but for Yeltsin did the majority go? if only officially, remember the box from the copier! Well, in general, the people at the referendum voted for the preservation of the USSR!
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 9 May 2016 20: 09
                +1
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                locksmiths and furriers followed more than lovers of "French rolls"

                Once again. The people do not go anywhere, for the most part they accept the victorious power and solve the problems of survival. The most irreconcilable and ideological are trying to fight.
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 10 May 2016 13: 51
                  +2
                  in your opinion, the Bolsheviks drove the people into the Red Army by force, somewhere I already heard it belay
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 10 May 2016 17: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    the Bolsheviks drove the people into the Red Army by force, r

                    I also heard somewhere that in World War I and Civil only volunteers fought.
                    Military service was a way to get pleasure and not pleasure. What do you think the tsar’s colonel or captain will go to work as a janitor?
                    Yes, there were ideological ones who fled to the White or joined the Red Army, the rest were taken on draft regardless of desire. Some managed to go back and forth several times
  6. Basil50
    Basil50 8 May 2016 08: 38
    +1
    Voroshilov has always been, or rather sought to be a politician from the military. A lot of things were told about him. Sometimes it’s funny, he always tried to be in plain sight, well, he competed with another fanfaron of the same kind, Tukhachevsky, who has only * semi-nobility *, but aplomb. A lot of things have been written about this, thanks for writing about how the RED ARMY was created and about the * creators *, they were different and the goals were different.
  7. UVB
    UVB 8 May 2016 08: 43
    +10
    Monument to Voroshilov in Lugansk. If suddenly someone is not in the know, twice was Voroshilovgrad.
    1. UVB
      UVB 8 May 2016 14: 20
      +10
      Quote: UVB
      Monument to Voroshilov in Lugansk. If suddenly someone is not in the know, twice was Voroshilovgrad.

      I'm just wildly curious, what are the cons? Lugansk was Voroshilovgrad in 1935-1958 and 1970-1990. The fact that the monument in Lugansk is still unharmed - I swear by my mom, I can see it from the window. And if anyone doubts that someone is off the beat, I give that more than half of the current generation do not know that, for example, Tver, Samara, Yekaterinburg used to be Kalinin, Kuibyshev, Sverdlovsk, not to mention Lugansk.
  8. King, just king
    King, just king 8 May 2016 09: 18
    +8
    For several decades, since Gorbachev opened the sewers, it has become a good form to write about our statesmen in such a condescending and dismissive tone, like "ahhh, petty figures of the Pugacheva era." I read the article, I wanted to spit, but I'm sitting at home, I won't be on the floor.

    Author, you organize and build in 9 years thousands of tanks and planes in a ruined country, and then sculpt articles.
    "dream", "to bury in Red Square" ... a stupid person author.
    Again, gently, about the Trotsky’s lifeboarding casts, how, after all, write the author about the personal train of the Life’s train, but about decimation ...
    1. Beefeater
      Beefeater 8 May 2016 09: 42
      0
      Quote: King, just king


      Author, you organize and build in 9 years thousands of tanks and planes in a ruined country, and then sculpt articles.
      "dream", "to bury in Red Square" ... a stupid person author.
      Again, gently, about the Trotsky’s lifeboarding casts, how, after all, write the author about the personal train of the Life’s train, but about decimation ...

      You rightly said "in a ruined country"
      Is there really no other need but tanks and planes to rivet
      Bringing the proletariat of the whole world "the light of the Marxist-Leninist teaching" in the hope of a world proletarian revolution
      Who needed this? Only a narrow layer of demagogues in power
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 9 May 2016 12: 00
        +3
        Quote: Beefeater
        Is there really no other need but tanks and planes to rivet

        There wouldn’t be tanks, there wouldn’t be the USSR. There, besides the Germans, there were also those who wanted the same Poles, the British, the French. The Norwegians, too, before the appearance of the Northern Fleet, became impudent. We generally remain silent about the Japanese, they loved us to the point of insanity.
        how to save on the army showed Yeltsin in the 90s.
        1. St_tov
          St_tov 20 May 2016 04: 26
          -1
          There is a point of view that there would be no tanks - there would not be a robbed peasantry. Ie they made tanks, then they all abandoned them, because yesterday's peasant did not want to fight for collectivists and industrializers — 3.8 million who surrendered in only 41g. And there would be a well-fed and happy peasantry - there would be motivated fighters. And in the first, and in the second case - the same three-line. And about saving on the army - why should it be fed at all, even if poorly? The multimillion-dollar corps of communist officers didn’t move a finger to protect the country, what was the army, what wasn’t - no difference. For many five-year periods, the Soviet people, undernourished, did not get enough sleep, so that the army would have tanks and cannons, and then once to no purpose - that is 41, that is 91.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 20 May 2016 04: 35
            +1
            Quote: St_tov.
            tanks done, then they all threw

            - is that all? Or some of them still fought .. a little? laughing

            Quote: St_tov.
            And there would be a well-fed and happy peasantry - there would be motivated fighters

            - and there would be no industry, alas ..
            - which then made new tanks
            - which won ..

            Quote: St_tov.
            The multimillion-dollar corps of communist officers did not lift a finger to protect the country

            - ABOUT HOW belay

            Quote: St_tov.
            For many five-year periods, the Soviet people, undernourished, did not get enough sleep so that the army would have tanks and cannons, and then once to no purpose - that’s 41, that’s 91

            - about the 91st more, please ..

            Minus - my earned ..
    2. cap
      cap 8 May 2016 09: 49
      +6
      Quote: King, just king
      Author, you organize and build in 9 years thousands of tanks and planes in a ruined country, and then sculpt articles.
      "dream", "to bury in Red Square" ... a stupid person author.
      Again, gently, about the Trotsky’s lifeboarding casts, how, after all, write the author about the personal train of the Life’s train, but about decimation ...


      All that they are trying to submit under the guise of publishing allegedly truth, as I consider this article to be pure CONTEST.
      Where are you going, "historians." And personal life is not discussed at all.
      (Author Vadim Erlikhman). Even the minus is a pity.
      You would have a saber in your hands and a machine gun. I would have looked.
  9. sevtrash
    sevtrash 8 May 2016 09: 37
    +6
    Voroshilov is clearly an extraordinary person, otherwise he would not have spent so much time in the forefront of the leadership of the USSR. Brave and cunning, if you were educated, it is possible that his IQ index was higher than most. Apparently, the commander was not, the lack of education / desire, probably. But, in any case, he lived a life much richer and more interesting than the vast majority of his critics, and he reserved a place for himself in history.
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 8 May 2016 12: 05
      +3
      On the other hand, it must be evaluated, first of all, as a statesman, how he was positioned by the party. And, apparently, as a statesman Voroshilov is rather weak. To put it mildly. A necessary hero of the civil war for politics, propaganda, who does not pretend to anything without an order from above, always for what is said.
  10. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 8 May 2016 09: 40
    +8
    Voroshilov is a controversial figure, but he is a man of his time and far from the last. It is impossible to cross out his affairs, his role as a military leader, in the end he was in his place, served and did not change his homeland.
  11. timyr
    timyr 8 May 2016 09: 53
    +5
    Quote: Beefeater
    Quote: King, just king


    Author, you organize and build in 9 years thousands of tanks and planes in a ruined country, and then sculpt articles.
    "dream", "to bury in Red Square" ... a stupid person author.
    Again, gently, about the Trotsky’s lifeboarding casts, how, after all, write the author about the personal train of the Life’s train, but about decimation ...

    You rightly said "in a ruined country"
    Is there really no other need but tanks and planes to rivet
    Bringing the proletariat of the whole world "the light of the Marxist-Leninist teaching" in the hope of a world proletarian revolution
    Who needed this? Only a narrow layer of demagogues in power

    You tell Hitler about unnecessary tanks. Or in 41 it was necessary for Germans to throw fabrics and irons.
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 8 May 2016 17: 40
      +3
      The unprincipled and uncivilized Soviet people, instead of following the example of civilized European peoples in an interesting pose, began to brutally defend themselves using all possible means. lol
  12. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 8 May 2016 11: 31
    +9
    I do not agree that KE Voroshilov was not an outstanding marshal, and in general it seems that the next epic of shit on the fan began in honor of May 9, Victory Day.

    We just had a wonderful Marshal Zhukov who alone won the whole war, judging by his stories. But for some reason he did not release Leningrad in 1941, and in 1944 KK Rokossovsky pulled his hand by breaking through the defense line during Operation Bagration.

    First, K.E. Voroshilov repelled two attacks in the North-West direction (Army Group North, Wehrmacht) and North (Finns and Co.) and held the port city of Leningrad. The fall of the city could mark the end of the Baltic Fleet, as well as a threat to the ports of Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. In one of the books I read that from Leningrad in 1941 was recalled due to a wound and was replaced by G.K. Zhukov
    Secondly, he participated in Operation Spark whose result is known to all.

    But according to eyewitnesses.

    On the morning of September 11, 1941, the enemy, with forces of up to four divisions supported by more than two hundred tanks, continued the offensive in the defense zone of the 42nd Army in a general direction towards Krasnoye Selo. At 14 o’clock K.E. Voroshilov and I, L.A. Shcherbakov, then still a colonel, left Smolny in Pulkovo to the CP of this army. They did not stay there long, went to inspect the Krasnogvardeisky UR. And finally arrived in the area of ​​the village of Kempelevo. Here, the commander of the 42nd Army, General F.S.
    KE Voroshilov began to observe the actions of this brigade from a slight elevation. He drew the attention of the commander to the crowded battle formations of sailors, as well as to the fact that the second echelon of the brigade is too close, in the reach of enemy artillery fire.
    These comments of the marshal were immediately taken into account, which played a positive role. The brigade completed the combat mission without undue casualties.


    But from an article by Marshal of the USSR K. S. Yenko in the Pravda newspaper
    “Kliment Efremovich ... was one of the organizers of the defense of Leningrad, Murmansk, Karelia, and the Baltic states. As commander in chief of the area, and then commander of the Leningrad Front, he, together with A.A. Zhdanov, led the defense of Leningrad. And it seems to me an unfair assessment, which is given in some literary works to this period of his activity. Possessing the organizational talent of a military leader, he actively participated in the development of strategic operations plans ... "
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 8 May 2016 12: 51
      0
      And here is from an article by Marshal of the USSR K. S. * Yenko in the newspaper "Pravda"
      * enko. Fooled, please forgive
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 8 May 2016 17: 43
        +3
        yeah Here you can say ukrperemoga. Congratulations. I can’t type the name of the Marshal of the USSR - the filter cuts. K.S. Moska_lenko
        Lol Even Wikipedia cuts
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 9 May 2016 17: 29
          0
          Quote: ShadowCat
          yeah Here you can say ukrperemoga. Congratulations. I can’t type the name of the Marshal of the USSR - the filter cuts. K.S. Moska_lenko
          Lol Even Wikipedia cuts

          Try to put ZENMATE and you will be better
  13. exo
    exo 8 May 2016 11: 51
    +6
    Very little truth, we know about the Red Marshals. Namely, the truth. But there are no doubts that these are people worthy of respect. The full St. George cavalier, like Budyonny, just did not become.
  14. bistrov.
    bistrov. 8 May 2016 14: 59
    +6
    Voroshilov is undoubtedly a very brave and decisive person with a sort of Khokhlyatsk cunning type of shirt-guy. He, of course, had to maneuver all the time to stay in his position, but he really needed to show his work, otherwise someone would keep him so much years old? But the results were still, what can I say, the Red Army was created, one of the strongest armies in the world, which was able to kill the backbone of European united fascism. And though Voroshilov did not win major battles in the Great Patriotic War, he fought honestly, did his duty as best he could and is worthy of all respect, therefore he was rightfully buried near the Kremlin wall, as one of the founders of the Soviet state.
    1. veteran66
      veteran66 9 May 2016 20: 31
      0
      Quote: bistrov.
      the Red Army was created, one of the strongest armies in the world, which was able to kill the ridge of European united fascism.

      the army that Voroshilov built was destroyed in 41-42, the new army broke the ridge of Nazism already.
  15. bistrov.
    bistrov. 8 May 2016 15: 08
    +1
    If we compare Voroshilov and Zhukov, then the second, undoubtedly, a talented military leader-practitioner, straightforward, had no inclination to any diplomacy and administrative staff work, and the first, on the contrary, was a talented administrator with very mediocre military capabilities.
  16. Des10
    Des10 8 May 2016 15: 12
    +4
    Voroshilov shooter - still sounds decent.
  17. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 8 May 2016 16: 41
    +4
    Retreat is the hardest thing in a war. While the troops are on the defensive, they are able to repulse attacks three times superior in strength to the enemy. To retreat, they need to throw trenches and gather in columns. The enemy, ahead of the retreating, can occupy the trenches and strengthen their new line of defense, and smash them in front and behind in an open field. Successfully withdrawing troops is a great art.

    In 1941, the work of this difficult maneuver was undertaken by the "old" marshals: Voroshilov, Budyonny, Kulik, Tymoshenko. Today, these marshals are almost idiots. Everyone writes that in Leningrad, the talented Zhukov replaced the incapable Voroshilov, but they forget to mention that Zhukov replaced the injured in the battle of Voroshilov.

    Voroshilov performed the most difficult task. He did not allow the Germans to defeat the troops of the North-Western direction. But Hitler considered their defeat a prerequisite for an attack on Moscow.

    To defeat the Soviet troops, led by K. Ye. Voroshilov, Army Group North was not able to, and not because he was withdrawing them too quickly. Voroshilov fought stubbornly and skillfully. Colonel-General Goth, who commanded the 1941rd German Tank Group in 3, after the war writes: “Despite the fact that the higher command was in a hurry, fierce fighting on the bridgeheads delayed the offensive for almost four weeks until the 18th Army approached. As the 41st Panzer Corps moved westward, the 56th Panzer Corps, which approached Soltsy on July 15, was even more isolated. Without sufficient flank cover, both divisions were hit by large enemy forces from the south, northeast, and north. Under the threat of the environment, they moved to the city of Bottom. "

    It was the Germans who retreated under the blows of troops led by Voroshilov, who were not large. And on the Elninsky arc, Zhukov, who had a real superiority in forces, only pushed German troops out of the arc, which departed only 15 km and leveled the front, reducing the number of troops on it. But in the encyclopedia “The Great Patriotic War” there is a separate article “Yelninsky offensive operation”, but there is no article about the battles near Soltsy and the liberation of this city. But Soltsy in terms of population is more than Yelny.

    It was Voroshilov who put an end to the Barbaross plan and forced Hitler to cancel the attack on Moscow in the summer and once again try to defeat the troops of the North-Western direction and again - unsuccessfully ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. creak
      creak 8 May 2016 17: 35
      +2
      From the telegram of I. Stalin to Voroshilov and Zhdanov on September 5, 1941 on one of the most critical days of the defense of Deningrad "We will be outraged by your behavior that you report the loss of a particular area, but you do not say a word about what you are doing to in order to stop losing cities and stations. ”Just as ugly you reported the loss of Shlisselburg.
      Will there be an end to losses? Maybe you already decided to surrender Leningrad? Where did the KV tanks go ... What is your aircraft doing ..
      To the question of what Voroshilov was like a military leader, as they say, there is nothing to reduce or add ...
    3. Roman 11
      Roman 11 8 May 2016 17: 40
      0
      Quote: Alexander Green
      But Soltsy in terms of population is more than Yelny ...
      It was Voroshilov who put an end to the plan of Barbarossa

      Well, why didn’t your vorshilov stormed Berlin?
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 9 May 2016 04: 02
        +3
        The peasant was 64 years old, of whom for the last five years he has been plowing, may the gods be each, and was wounded several times.
        And at this age with all sores to storm Berlin?
    4. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 9 May 2016 09: 55
      -2
      "Army Group" North "could not defeat the Soviet troops, led by K. E. Voroshilov, and not because ..." /////

      German Army Group North was the weakest
      from all three groups. They did not have a single
      T4 tank - several T3, the rest T2 and Czech.
      When they reached Leningrad, half of their tanks were
      captured: KV, T-26.

      In theory, the normal command was to defeat
      the North group is still on the far approaches to Leningrad.
      But there were no sensible generals; Zhukov did not help either.
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 9 May 2016 10: 39
        +5
        Firstly, it was the army of Israel that was constantly mobilized, while the USSR had peacetime at the time of the Wehrmacht attack, i.e. all divisions (including tank ones) were cut down to almost half. in its composition.
        Secondly, you can look at Wikipedia how many KV tanks (and its modifications) were at the front subordinate K.E. Voroshilov. Approximately 150-200 pieces. This is a drop in the ocean. The main attack tanks of the USSR at the beginning of the war were precisely the T-26 and BT tanks of various modifications that corresponded to the German Pz2 and Pz3, as well as the Czech Pz. 38t
        Thirdly, tanks, by a strange coincidence, consume fuel and ammunition. Also, do not forget that the tank still needs to get to the point of contact with the enemy, but here the KV had a problem. The transmission was awful and out of order. A standing tank is a target, even if it is invulnerable three times.
        In the fourth, tanks that did not have the ability to repair were rushed, and the Germans never refused good cars.

        Quote: voyaka uh
        . They did not have a single T4 tank

        Then I caught you. On June 22, in the 6th Panzer Division, which was in a tank fist, the subordinate group North had 30 Pz.4 tanks, and I looked right away

        Quote: voyaka uh
        In theory, the normal command was to defeat the North group on the far approaches to Leningrad.

        In theory, the Israeli army, having 200k of military personnel and the poles of the reserve, was supposed to bury Hamas several times, but for some reason still has not done so.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 9 May 2016 16: 04
          -1
          "should have buried Hamas several times already,
          but for some reason I still haven't done it. "///

          Buried several times - useless what .
          Because there is nothing to do next. The people in Gaza
          wants Hamas, and even if you kill all the current
          Hamasnikov and leave Gaza, then there will again be Hamas -
          other people.
          1. Shadowcat
            Shadowcat 9 May 2016 18: 50
            +1
            But why then keep the army mobilized if it does not fulfill its functions?
            Any enterprise must produce something. The army either seizes land or provides security. The first, like Israel, is not needed, but the second turns out it cannot provide.
            Then why are deployments?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 9 May 2016 23: 04
              +2
              That's catch. IDF captured Gaza several times - this
              uncomplicated, but didn’t want to get stuck there (occupation for sweeps) And after a few years
              respite began a new round.
              Israel holds about 120 thousand regular army under arms. It’s redundant for Gaza,
              but there is Hezbollah, the IS in the Sinai, the Golan, Palestinian militants ... and potentially
              Iran, Turkey, Egypt, where the political situation may change suddenly.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 9 May 2016 16: 12
          0
          "the North group had 30 Pz.4 tanks" ////

          I was based on a complaint from the North command:
          "we have only light tanks." Apparently T4 was knocked out
          in the course of promotion.
          When in September 41, all the tanks were withdrawn from the North and transferred
          near Moscow (and the offensive on Leningrad was stopped),
          then the tanks fit on one train, about 50 pieces.
          Some "Czechs". All of them were lost even before the approach to Moscow.
          The captured T-26s fought the whole war, buried along the Neva in half-bunkers.
          1. Shadowcat
            Shadowcat 9 May 2016 18: 47
            +1
            German generals generally masters to complain. Either they have a muddle (the army is teleporting red and doesn’t prepare positions, they magically appear), then it’s frost (and the Soviet soldiers are insensitive to it), then Hitler is an adventurer (and before that he was the king and god who had conquered all of Europe and the barbaross plan, he invented at leisure).
            The squares were also knocked out, and 34ki and many tank corps were burning on the battlefields.

            You yourself say that according to the results of the offensive, we had to scrape over the guts to put the tanks to the Germans. But those that were not evaporated, but were knocked out. Under whose command and as a result of whose actions?
  18. Roman 11
    Roman 11 8 May 2016 16: 58
    +1
    “Well, quit,” he unlocked. - What is my military?
    As I looked into the water, you can’t tell better ..... twice a hero (for the repression of colleagues, or what?)
  19. creak
    creak 8 May 2016 17: 38
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    It was Voroshilov who put an end to the Barbaross plan and forced Hitler to cancel the attack on Moscow in the summer and once again try to defeat the troops of the North-Western direction and again - unsuccessfully ...

    Quote: ranger
    From the telegram of I. Stalin to Voroshilov and Zhdanov on September 5, 1941 on one of the most critical days of the defense of Deningrad "We will be outraged by your behavior that you report the loss of a particular area, but you do not say a word about what you are doing to in order to stop losing cities and stations. ”Just as ugly you reported the loss of Shlisselburg.
    Will there be an end to losses? Maybe you already decided to surrender Leningrad? Where did the KV tanks go ... What is your aircraft doing ..
    To the question of what Voroshilov was like a military leader, as they say, there is nothing to reduce or add ...

    And why did the Guderian Tank Group to join Kleist be transferred from the Moscow direction to the south to the rear of the SW Front on the Left Bank of Ukraine - are you at least a little in the subject?
    Read - enough has already been written about this to repeat the already known ...
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth 8 May 2016 21: 53
      +1
      This you seem to be in some other topic. What does Ukraine and Moscow have to do with it. We are talking about the Leningrad direction.
  20. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 8 May 2016 18: 47
    +5
    For those who do not believe that thanks to the actions of the troops under the leadership of Voroshilov, the Germans stopped the attack on Moscow.
    Colonel General Goth, in his military scientific work, Operation Operation Barbarossa, writes:

    “Thus, while the OKH still indulged in the hope of delivering a decisive blow to Moscow at the end of August, Hitler again, under the influence of one failure of the North Army Group, which had a local character, decided on August 15:“ Army Group Center continued the offensive to Moscow to stop. From the composition of the 3rd Panzer Group, immediately transfer to Army Group Sever one tank corps (one panzer and two motorized divisions), since the offensive threatens to drown there. " What was the reason for so unfavorably assessing the situation in Army Group North?

    One of the two 16th Army corps, moving south east of Lake Ilmen, namely the 10th Army Corps, was attacked by significantly superior Russian forces (eight divisions of the 38th Army) and pushed north to the lake (Soviet forces are greatly exaggerated Green ) In response, the command of Army Group North, seeking to alleviate the very difficult situation of the 10th Army Corps, decided to allocate one SS division and one motorized division for counter-attack, which had previously taken part in the hostilities near Luga and in the vicinity of Lake Ilmen ...

    Now, Army Group Center was weakened by half the tank group, and this was at the moment when it was left to take the last step to achieve the goal of the operation, that is, to capture Moscow. The 3th Panzer Corps separated from the 39rd Panzer Group (the 12th Panzer, the 18th and the 20th Panzer divisions) were not used at the place where the outcome of the operations was decided, but sent by a long circular route through Vilnius to the north wing of Army Group North .

    This corps was to fulfill Hitler’s main desire: to seize the Leningrad industrial region and isolate the "stronghold of Bolshevism" from Moscow. Moving south from Leningrad to the east and overcoming incredible difficulties, the corps reached Tikhvin. A few weeks later, the 41st Panzer Corps, which had previously successfully attacked Leningrad, was forced to stop and withdraw. ”
    1. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 8 May 2016 19: 02
      0
      laughing did they stop themselves?
  21. Nubia2
    Nubia2 8 May 2016 18: 48
    +4
    Hero of the Soviet Union in 1956 in connection with the 75th anniversary of his birth, in 1968 in connection with the 50th anniversary of the USSR Armed Forces.
    Nice gifts.
    Unfortunately, with regard to a number of awards in the USSR, this was a common practice.
  22. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 8 May 2016 19: 16
    +6
    Roman 11: "Budyonny darted to the Volga, leaving the cauldrons behind him to please Stalin - and a total of 8,866 thousand people died in the war !!"

    Dear, read the memoirs of German generals, how they evaluated Budyonny during the Great Patriotic War.

    So Halder, characterizing the actions of Marshal Budenny, noted in his diary July 26, 1941:
    “The enemy again found ways to withdraw his troops from the threat of the emerging environment. This, on the one hand, is a fierce counterattack against our front-line detachments of the 17th Army, and on the other, it’s a great art with which he withdraws his troops from threatened areas and quickly transfers them by rail and by car. ”

    On the second day of the war, when nothing was yet clear, Halder wrote in his diary:
    “... Von Bock from the very beginning was against the joint attack of both tank groups on Smolensk and wanted to target the Goth group to the north. In this case, the tank groups of Goth and Guderian would be separated by an almost impassable strip of lakes and swamps, which could give the enemy the opportunity to separately defeat both of them. This danger should be taken into account, especially since it was the Russians who first put forward the idea of ​​massaging mobile compounds (Budyonny). ”

    The rout of the Soviet troops commanded by S. M. Budyonny was provided for in the Barbarossa plan before they even reached the Dnieper. During the persecution, it was planned to occupy the Donbass and reach Moscow.
    And with this part of the plan, the Germans did not succeed. On the contrary, Hitler had to abandon the Barbarossa plan, withdraw the Guderian’s Panzer Group from the Moscow direction and throw it south.
    In fact, the Germans got the Barbaross plan only on the Western Front at Pavlov. But the Barbarossa plan was frustrated by the courage and resilience of the Soviet troops under the leadership of Budenny, Voroshilov and Tymoshenko.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 9 May 2016 16: 29
      +2
      Without diminishing the heroism of Soviet soldiers:
      Barbaross's plan was a notorious adventure.
      Proceed with 4000 thousand tanks on 3 diverging
      fan directions (at the same time!) to a depth of hundreds
      kilometers off-road. This elementarily exceeded the theoretical
      tank engine resource.
      The lockers ofigel when Hitler drew them in December 40
      line Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan. They didn’t get there.
      measure kilometers. But the Fuehrer said ... it means "yavol".
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 9 May 2016 18: 53
        +1
        Prior to this, adventures were successful and the barbaross plan (and it was approved by the Wehrmacht General Staff in the final version (there were several from several prominent generals)) were brought not by birds
        In general, both victory is the achievement of the generals, and Hitler is to blame for the defeat. It is strange, but for example, when the Germans began to scrape around Moscow, it was Hitler who kept the collapsing front by inserting a propi to the General Staff of the Wehrmacht ... drunk, the same in the 42nd near Leningrad.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 9 May 2016 22: 54
          +2
          Blitzkriegs work out on a small scale. German generals
          carried away by victories and divorced from reality.
          The scale of Barbarossa was unprecedented, too large for a blitzkrieg.
          Only a complete loss of control of the Red Army,
          paralysis of the General Staff due to fear of Zhukov led
          to the successes of the Nazis in 41 and then again in the summer of 42 years.
          Towards the end of 42, a sensible General Staff was formed with
          Vasilevsky and Antonov, kicked out by Zhukov and some analysis began
          and operations planning.
          1. Shadowcat
            Shadowcat 10 May 2016 03: 15
            0
            Squinting at France.
            Well, yes, on a small scale ...
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 10 May 2016 17: 24
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        This elementarily exceeded the theoretical
        tank engine resource.

        In your march in Poland and France did not exceed the resource of the tank engine?
        The war in Africa (with its dust) did not exceed the resource?
        It’s just that initially the fighting was planned for the summer campaign. It didn’t work. This is not Poland and France for you
  23. cedar
    cedar 8 May 2016 21: 42
    +2
    For his struggle after the revolution, Stalin needed support and, above all, support in the power structure, which was the army at that time, Voroshilov and Budyonny became such, they remained throughout the civil war, which did not end in 1922, as follows from the official historiography ... The meat grinder of 1937-1938 is also not the end of the civil ...
    Tsaritsyn, the future of Stalingrad, became the nodal point where the fate of these three outstanding people, two future marshals of one ... The brilliant Secretary of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, united.
    Volgograd, in all fairness, should be Stalingrad, with the central Stalin square, where two avenues converge ... named after Budyonny and Kliment Yefremovich Voroshilov, is far from simple "simple"!
  24. Kenneth
    Kenneth 8 May 2016 21: 49
    +3
    This is how Stalin summed up Voroshilov’s activities
    On April 1, 1942, Stalin signed the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks "On the Work of Comrade Voroshilov." It noted: “At the beginning of the war with Germany, comrade Voroshilov was appointed commander-in-chief of the North-West direction, which had as its main task the defense of Leningrad. Comrade Voroshilov could not cope with the task entrusted and failed to organize the defense of Leningrad. The State Defense Committee recalled Comrade Voroshilov from Leningrad and gave him work on new military units in the rear.

    In view of Comrade Voroshilov’s request, he was seconded in February to the Volkhov Front as a representative of the General Headquarters to assist the front command and stayed there for about a month. However, Comrade Voroshilov’s presence on the Volkhov Front did not produce the desired results.

    Desiring once again to enable Comrade Voroshilov to use his experience in front-line work, the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks proposed that Comrade Voroshilov take over the direct command of the Volkhov Front. But Comrade Voroshilov reacted negatively to this proposal and did not want to take responsibility for the Volkhov Front, despite the fact that this front is now crucial for the defense of Leningrad, referring to the fact that the Volkhov Front is a difficult front and does not want to fail on this business.

    In view of the foregoing, the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) Decides:

    1. To admit that Comrade Voroshilov did not justify himself in the work entrusted to him at the front.

    2. To send comrade Voroshilov to rear military work. "
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 9 May 2016 05: 47
      +4
      By a strange coincidence, K.E. Voroshilov took part in the work of the Volkhov Front in the winter of 1942 - 1943, namely, in Operation Iskra, which led to the unblocking of the city.
  25. mult-65
    mult-65 8 May 2016 23: 34
    +1
    Posted by Vadim Erlichman. What are we talking about ...
  26. bbss
    bbss 9 May 2016 00: 05
    +1
    I especially liked the thesis about the election of the commander at a meeting of workers. And as a cunning Klim, likening Obama to two weeks led the election campaign. I propose to send the author ... to Harvard. For worthy.
  27. RoTTor
    RoTTor 13 May 2016 21: 05
    +2
    Bold minus article - shameless and incompetent compilation