Prevention of pilot death in combat conditions after ejection

I was a first class navigator, I served in the Air Force until 1996, flew Tu-16, Tu-22m3, An-22 aircraft. I have 1800 skydiving, of which more than 1000 as an air operator, master of sports. From 2002 to 2015, he worked at the Ivanovo Parachute Plant as a test engineer.

I proudly followed the effective actions of the aerospace forces of Russia in Syria. But I was annoyed and offended by the helplessness of our pilots when they descended on rescue parachutes, because if instead of a bright and neutral parachute they had subtle parachute systems of the “wing” type, then our pilots could fly away from the ejection site at a distance twice the height of the ejection and choose a safe place for landing and evacuation.

In order to replace the parachute system in the ejection seat with a wing-type parachute, it is necessary to perform a large amount of testing with the ejection of the aircraft dummy including. To prevent pilots from dying under combat conditions after the ejection, I propose to modify the parachute system so that its work at extremely low and low altitudes remains unchanged, and at an altitude greater than 1000 meters the pilot could, if necessary, detach from the main rescue parachute, and after uncoupling the main rescue parachute is automatically entered "wing". The pilot, controlling the "wing", flies through the navigator in the right direction. In the case of the death of Oleg Peshkov, this is at least 10 km.

To implement this way, it is necessary to modify the harness to detach the free ends of the main rescue parachute, sew the free ends of the “wing” to the harness, and place the dome in the chamber in the area of ​​the headrest of the ejection seat or on the harness. As a “wing” you can use the already tested reserve parachute with an area of ​​24 m². The weight of the "wing" with a knapsack and a camera is no more than 4,5 kg, the volume is 6-7 liters.

After such a revision, the reliability and safety of the parachute rescue system is significantly increased, since spare parachutes of the wing-type fabric made of gray-wild color (the color of bombs) are hardly noticeable, easy to operate and do not require lengthy training. To implement this proposal does not require long and costly tests.

Happy holiday dear colleagues !!!

I especially congratulate Konstantin Murakhtin, and I would like to know his opinion about my proposal.

Comments

[polite people]

Professionals are the pride of Russia. God grant that they change the parachute system.

[Vladimir16]

Swinishness is its idea to push through the blood of a deceased pilot.

If he worked at a parachute factory, there he would justify his idea.
Or earlier in the service reported on his proposal.

But here on the forum powdering brains, and besides hiding behind the death of our pilot, is too much.

Actually blamed the death of the pilot of our designers.

It would be nice to do their own thing, not chatter.

[corporal]

Quote: Vladimir16

But here on the forum powdering your brains,

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

[Vladimir16]

I think you are not the only one thinking about this.

What the author does is called POPULISM.

Your cons confirm this.
You minus for the death of the pilot.

The author found a solution in two paragraphs!
Good for you!

[cniza]

The author is a big plus and achieve the implementation of his ideas.

[tomket]

Quote: Vladimir16

Your cons confirm this.
You minus for the death of the pilot.

You are engaged in populism.

[Leprekon]

Quote: tomket

You are engaged in populism.

Not sickly populism, "-160"! Some, for every "-" fall into hysterics. Everyone perceives the world or goes crazy in their own way!

[activator]

Quote: Vladimir16

What the author does is called POPULISM.

And you are engaged in populism, and death and life are always close to them all the more so the military can’t do anything for him. Any designer who creates a weapon or a combat technician understands that people will die from his use, or suggest they all go to kill themselves from awareness. Take Kalashnikov, his brainchild probably killed the people more than any other weapon, but no one believes that he was PR on death. Well, it is possible except you. It’s very difficult to get a minus from me, but with great pleasure.

[Bacha]

If an athlete jumps, this is one, he jumps on the wing, but he needs to be controlled during landing, and the pilot may lose consciousness during overloads. If you want to surpass Guy Severin, then please! Why write here, go and patent. You can’t, just believe it, his catapults are the best in the world!

[dima mzk]

Yes it is ! there were cases of bailouts at a height there on a supersonic head will tear off. there you’re not even an athlete, even a saint with physics. there was even a steal, even a leather coat. The ejection system is not intended for diving. It is a means of life support for the pilot. Is there anyone able to pilot a wing there in a stress situation?

[Shtyn dwarf]

the author suggests leaving everything as is, but additionally adding a wing as a spare. The wing is activated at the request of the pilot. He may turn it on and plan it, or it may not include it.
--
"stupid people bl *" (c)

[Bacha]

I missed the button, I didn’t write to you, but to you a plus)))

[Black Colonel]

Do you suggest NOTHING to be done?

[Nahum]

It is necessary to do! I know for sure that there are no unsolvable problems for specialists. As a "sofa general", far from this topic, let me ask you: have you tried to create an easy armoring (bulletproof and splinterproof) for an ejection seat? After all, many Kevlars and other miracles of passive protection have been created.

[Letun]

Quote: Vladimir16

What the author does is called POPULISM.

What you write is called STUPID.

[__VESCT0R__]

Quote: Vladimir16

You minus for the death of the pilot.

We minus you. Nobody has blamed anyone here! And do not mislead the members of the forum! And you, by chance, are not a liberal?

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Vladimir16

You minus for the death of the pilot.

Do you even have a little idea about how innovations are introduced in the army and not only? What is OCD and what is the cost of upholstering thresholds in order to obtain permission for this and the necessary funding? How is the test of the created system tested before being adopted? After all, the lives of thousands of people depend on how everything is done.
And you, my dear, make a nonsense. Having no idea how all this is done. But they noted that hundreds of readers of the forum paid attention to you.

[aksakal]

Quote: Hedgehog

Do you even have a little idea about how innovations are introduced in the army and not only?

- most of them have no idea about it, including me. And that's okay, not everyone is an inventor and a design engineer. But it is enough to read what the amersky general Maxim was told about his invention, such as "a stupid toy for children." Or our engineers about the dynamic protection of tanks, such as "Put explosives on the whole tank? !!! Yes, I'm under a tribunal!", To understand - to implement an invention, even obvious in its advantages, is not at all so simple. Especially in the army, where healthy conservatism, especially in terms of proven weapons (and you must admit, rifles and conventional high-strength armor were really tested over the years of war) is simply necessary, and the devil knows how innovation will show itself.
In principle, the death of Peshkov is a tragedy, but if it becomes an impetus for activating the development of catapults with guided parachutes, I don’t see anything wrong with that. In the end, many improvements, especially improvements in the field of rescue equipment, appeared precisely as a result of the analysis of deaths, and I did not see anything populist here.

[Manul]

Quote: Hedgehog

Do you even have a little idea about how innovations are introduced in the army and not only? What is OCD and what is the cost of upholstering thresholds in order to obtain permission for this and the necessary funding? How is the test of the created system tested before being adopted? After all, the lives of thousands of people depend on how everything is done.

Far from the topic for example, you can not even leave. It is enough to recall the story of the creation of the parachute itself. http://topwar.ru/39697-istoriya-odnogo-izobretatela-gleb-kotelnikov.html

[Damask]

In a combat situation, it is more important to leave the shooting range faster, the more you are in the air, the less likely you are to survive, and the enemy is also awake, there will definitely not be an answer, which is better

[Persistent]

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

The K-36 D-3,5 armchairs were developed at Zvezda. Parachute PSU 36 ser. 4-3 is talcated and placed in a headrest with two presses for 5 years. This chair was used by the deceased pilot. In 2,5 years I have installed over 400 of these systems. Full triggering with the exit of the dome occurs in 0,8 seconds. This system was ejected with a dummy at a speed of 900 km / h. To reduce the dynamic shock when filling the dome, there are relief slots on it. A gliding parachute at such speeds will simply burst. Even the slider won't help !! The author does not take into account many additional factors. Wind direction and speed near the ground. In a strong wind towards the adversaries, the "wing" can only reduce to 0 msec. horizontal speed. That will allow the bastards to shoot the pilot. No room in the catapult for the second parachute !!!! And more ... If the pilot is injured or unconscious, he will not be able to use the release. There are no analogues to our catapults IN THE WORLD !!!! Leaving speed 0 km. hour Height 0 meters ... I heard the cry of the author's soul. Like all of you, I feel sorry for the deceased Hero !!! But the navigator is alive! So there should be no complaints about the bailout system. And I jumped more than the author, although I did not fly as a navigator ...

[ancient]

Quote: Persistent

The author does not take into account many additional factors.

I put it for you, +! The author voiced the "desire", .. no more.
But also to you .. "question"
yes .. speed 0 and height 0, BUT ... only when VERTICAL speed is the same 0 !!!!
But what about the speed limits for dumping a flashlight? But on UB-shahs they generally ... are of great importance

[bober1982]

But on the UB-shkah they generally .... are of great importance ...
Everything is correct, on all types, without exception, they matter, the leaving speed is 0km / h, and the height of 0km / h does not exist, unless a fortunate occasion (Chernyakhovsk, Su-24)

[Throw]

Persistent with the ancient, re-read the article.
The author suggests not replacing, but supplement wing system. The dome of which comes out when the pilot disengages the main one, which always fires first and dampens the speed to a normal decrease.
So nothing will "rip" ...

Concerning

In a strong wind towards the adversaries, the "wing" can only reduce to 0 msec. horizontal speed

-in this case, the wing gives the same as the main one. But on it you can fly over the "adversaries", and go sideways, and in any case, hitting such a moving target is much more difficult than a uniformly descending one.

[Persistent]

Persistent with the ancient, re-read the article.
The author suggests not to replace, but to supplement the system with a wing.

And you do not consider the consequences ??

[Persistent]

Tests were conducted on mannequins !!! But really, in the parking lot of only one slobber pilot, he was knocked out with a safe landing ....

[Throw]

What are we talking about?
I will say in other words: the wing after the main one is activated only at altitude and only when the pilot needs to fly away): from under fire, or to the shore, or on the field so that slings do not hang out in the forest, etc.

About parking and zero elevation there is no question.

[Firstvanguard]

As far as I know, there was a case in Afghanistan, on the Su-24 the navigator was kicked out in the parking lot, so already two.

[andris_74]

That is why I am impressed by this resource, that here you can often meet experienced, knowledgeable people, thanks for the comment.

[yushch]

Quote: Corporal

Quote: Vladimir16

But here on the forum powdering your brains,

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

Guided parachutes of the "wing" type have a high percentage of refusals in the air, which is probably why they are used only by athletes and special forces. I agree that work in this direction should be carried out, in any case, you can change the color, but it is not in vain that it has a bright color, this is done for the convenience of locating the landing site, so it is difficult to state unequivocally.
P.S. They jump into the Air Force 2 times a year according to the program, but when communicating with familiar pilots, I know that some people ask for a magar to jump instead of them GVA officers or those who like jumping. Based on my personal experience, I can say that I started experimenting in the air in the top ten jumps for a quicker reduction. Namely, one free end of the D-6 began to be pulled down with the foot, as a result, the decrease sharply increases and you begin to swing in a spiral like a pendulum, and near the ground everything is brought back to normal position. Command should be given more time and extra mania pilots survival rates.

[ancient]

Quote: yushch

P.S. They jump into the Air Force 2 times a year according to the program, but communicating with familiar pilots

Put, +! But ... after 35 years they do not jump at all, well, "diagnostics" and "weights" who have over 90 kg of weight
The flight crew only jumps on "oaks" ... occasionally on T-4 ... but what about UT-15 or PO-9 ... so this .. "fairy tales" .. only "athletes" , or PDSniki .. well, occasionally right-wing pilots.
The regimental commanders have a very "bad" attitude towards the commanders and navigators of ships who are trying to "hit" the "paratroopers".

A parachute is not a means for pleasure or "earnings" but exclusively ... a means of salvation!

[Persistent]

but as for what would be on UT-15 or PO-9 ... so it's .. "fairy tales" .. only "athletes", or PDSniki .. well, occasionally right-wing pilots.

"Seregin regiment" of military unit 21215. Even the commander Cherednichenko jumped on PO-9 series 2, PO-16 .... There were enough willing pilots among the pilots !!!!

[ancient]

Quote: Persistent

"Seregin regiment" military unit 21215

Do not you find that the example you cited with the regiment, which was "engaged" in the training of astronauts, is somewhat different ..?

[Persistent]

Do not you find that the example you cited with the regiment, which was "engaged" in the training of astronauts, is somewhat different ..?

Why ?? The flight crew had 2 jumps per year. The rest is optional ...

[ancient]

Quote: Persistent

Why ??

Well, this answer lies on the surface ... how do they fly in Kubinka and how do they fly in "formation"?

[CB activist]

There was one squadron commander in the regiment, I don’t know how much he weighed, I only remember that he, in principle, could not take me by surprise, because in the barracks, first his belly appeared, and then, in fact, the given military leader. He flew the IL-76, this is natural. He passed VLEK somehow, but he was not included "by weight" in the planned schedules for p / jumps of the flight crew, I saw it myself. Only my sergeant "two convolutions" in the long hours of duty in the PSS thought: although the aviation is transport, but military, and if it happens to him to leave ... he will not leave the landing site on his own - he is injured on landing - weight and lack of parachute skills.

I myself am an ordinary engineer, not a hero, not an Olympic champion, not a holder of access to flight work in the first column, and not a laureate of everything in the world, my weight is 102 - 104 kg. I jumped on the D-1-5U to 45 years without injuries. Now I’m 50, the five-year interval is filled with paragliding, I plan to fly on this wonderful device for another 15 years.

I have a question for the Ancient: why the hell is this "means of rescue" needed if the pilot is practically not ready to use it? In addition, skydiving - a simple and harsh activity - helps maintain high stress tolerance. You will not argue that the profession of a pilot is somewhat more nervous than the profession of a librarian. High stress resistance is the basis of salvation. So why is it that "Regiment commanders have a very" bad "attitude towards the commanders and navigators of ships who are trying to" hit "the" paratroopers "? After all, they (regiment commanders) thereby reduce the chances of salvation for their subordinates.

[Throw]

Activist +!
And then flyers like to build a "white bone" out of themselves and forget about what they should. Not money and energy vbuhany in their training, but about the duty to perform combat missions.
And for this it is necessary to "be able to trained" to apply and survive, including when parachuting.

P. S. You love to fly, love and toboggan to jump.

[Persistent]

Wing-type guided parachutes have a high failure rate in the air

I do not agree with you ... Po-9, Po-9 2 ser. , PO-9 3 ser. , PO-16, PO-17 ... The percentage of failure is miserable. These are the systems with which I jumped ...

[ancient]

Quote: Persistent

The percentage of failure is scanty. These are the systems with which I jumped ...

As far as I've seen myself .. "mattress" unfolds much longer than a normal dome

[Letun]

Quote: Corporal

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

Because the wing is very critical to the position of the body during opening, then it is designed for certain conditions at the time of opening, the most important thing is speed. For sports parachutes, this is about 30-60 m / s, for base jumping, on the contrary, the speed is low, at high there will be shock overloads, it will break.
I have 720 jumps, though all are sports, the author wrote very sensibly, with the exception of ext. there are practically no parachutes, at least this is a very interesting idea!

[Persistent]

Because the wing is very critical to body position during deployment,

That's for sure . The transition is synchronously with the left hand behind the ring and the right with the back on the forehead. After pulling out the ring, you turn your head to the left and control the opening. Accordingly, the body is slightly turned to the right so that the jellyfish is knocked down by a stream. Otherwise, it will jump in the shading on the back ....

[ancient]

Quote: Persistent

That's for sure .

So we came to the conclusion that the wing ... as an additional parachute or even the main one ... we will assume that the seat stabilized in flight, "braked" and the main canopy worked, but ..... as an automatic or pilot will determine ... whether the "wing" needs to be "put into operation" or so .. basically sits down?
I "went out" at an altitude of 1200-1300 meters (760 mm Hg each (or rather pulled the holders) with a vertical meter under 50 t already (which I noticed from the arrows), in fact it turned out to be 800 meters true while back and forth. .it turned out that there were already 500, raised the light filter and unfastened the mask ... now the earth is already ... so in reality, think about ... whether to introduce the wing or not ... there will not be enough time ... consciousness or some other byaka?

[Persistent]

Here you and I have come to the conclusion that the wing .. as an additional parachute or even the main one ...

I did not go anywhere and did not come to a conclusion !!! There will be no extra parachute in the catapult !! There was little delirium (thank God), but dreamers are present ... Look again. Nowhere to stick another parachute ...
clickable

[Letun]

Quote: Persistent

There was little delirium (thank God), but dreamers are present ... Look again. Nowhere to stick another parachute ...
clickable

Well, no one is going to stick here. The author talks about the prospects and developments for the future. They will develop a new chair, at first an experimental one, then tests, etc., and then you have to see what they decide. The fact remains that if in Syria the pilots would fly on parachutes "wing", most likely the commander would not have died, and accordingly the Marine and MI-8 helicopter would not have died. So it's not necessary about nonsense. Anything that saves human life must be considered. Again, I am very impressed with the author's idea.

[Persistent]

They will develop a new chair, first an experimental one, then trials, etc., and there you need to see what they decide.

Alas !! Not already Guy Ilyich Severin .. He passed away in 2008. And for those young people who are now on "Zvezda" to Severin as to China on their bellies ... Unfortunately ...

The only way forward is drones. There is no need for a parachute or catapult. Pilots will cease to die ....

[Throw]

wing .. as additional parachute or even the main ..

The main wing can not be done because
really breaks it at disclosure
- if, in order not to break, even use the braking one with shooting, for example, then the pilot, if he is unconscious, will crash when landing.

The advantages of the wing as an additional one: the landing party in full "harness" from 7 thousand on "Crossbows" flies away almost 40 km. From medium and high altitudes for the pilot, this is a real chance not to fall out of the fire into the fire or even reach out to his own.

As for "nowhere to stick" and "difficult disclosure", that is, the engineer and the designers, on Severin the light did not come together like a wedge, although the specialist was, of course, a genius.
Here the MO must set the task, and then there, as a jellyfish, shoot into the stream and where to put the packing, they will find and come up with.

[Letun]

Quote: ancient

So we came to the conclusion that the wing ... as an additional parachute or even the main one ... we will assume that the seat stabilized in flight, "braked" and the main canopy worked, but ..... as an automatic or pilot will determine ... whether the "wing" needs to be "put into operation" or so .. basically sits down?

Up to 1000 m no wings, above 1000 m the pilot must clearly determine. If there is no danger, let it go down on the round dome, for the pilots, of course, do not want to offend anyone, the paratroopers are still there, but if there is danger in Syria, the pilot decided, unhooked, and flew along GLONASS to his own. With the landing, of course, the unprepared will have problems, but this is any better than the line from the machine gun hanging from under the dome.

[ancient]

Quote: Letun

, for pilots, of course, I don’t want to offend anyone, paratroopers,

Very truthful words, VERY! That’s the whole homespun truth.

Everything else is ... dreams, although there is a "ripe grain" in this, especially for those .. who flies over the "seas-okyans", and even in the areas of "eternal white sun and eternally green tomatoes."

[Aleksandr1959]

Can you remember how in Akhtubinsk jumping Colonel Popov S.S. hit the hole with his foot, broke his ankle, then he was pulled into a prickly one. wire ..... Naturally, he did not jump anymore, and he had to recover for a long time with a fracture.
Bukhtoyarov V.P. when ejecting from the M-17 broke his toe.

[naraevskij1957]

12 points and I for it On mistakes it is necessary to study, and, not to blame

[Jack-b]

Quote: Corporal

but after the death of the pilot, he also thought about why not use guided parachutes.

And how do you expect to safely land a wing with a suspended chair in the mountains? IMHO here without injury to the pilot can not do.

[Firstvanguard]

Quote: Jack-B

And how do you expect to safely land a wing with a suspended chair in the mountains? IMHO here without injury to the pilot can not do.

Descends, the catapulted pilot, already without a seat.

[Jack-b]

In order not to be injured during the ejection, the pilot is "firmly" attracted to the seat. Hidden in the chair is a "life support" kit (I don't know what it is called correctly): food ration, sleeping bag, weapon, radio beacon, signal lights. Those. First of all, it is necessary that the parachute should not be fastened to the seat, but to the pilot, and the seat, in turn, was also fastened to the pilot? So? Then, for example, the seat can automatically unfasten from the pilot. Together with a "life support" kit. Accordingly, if a pilot lands somewhere in the snow, his chances of survival tend to zero, even if there is no one to shoot at him.

Threat. I understand that I want the pilots to live. But this whole system of salvation was not invented from scratch. And the color of the parachute is chosen not to get easier, but to find it easier. And it’s not a wing but a dome because you have to land a seat and not a pilot separately. And you can’t do without a chair in any way. Alas, the tragedy in Syria is not the fault of the chair, but the underestimation of the frostbite of the fart. And here, unfortunately, the design of the chair can not save. Intentionally knocked down, intentionally searched. A wing would not help. Direction-finding beacons.

[Zefr]

why not use guided parachutes. why not use guided parachutes.

I think because the pilot can be injured and he is not up to a controlled parachute. On the other hand, if he is not wounded and capable, then free hands will not hurt, and with a controlled parachute he should be distracted by control.

[Rav075]

Will the pilot always be able to control the "wing" after ejection? What if he's injured or faints after the bailout? But the "wing" must be controlled in order to successfully land at the desired point!

[Stanislav 1978]

But here on the forum powdering brains, and besides hiding behind the death of our pilot, is too much.

If a person expressed his ideas, then what's wrong with that.
How viable the proposed system is, only people who work in this field can give an answer; there is nothing for couch experts with knowledge from wiki here.

[hartlend]

This was written by Vladimir 16

Quote: Stanislav 1978

sofa experts with wiki knowledge

[Stanislav 1978]

Quote: hartlend

This was written by Vladimir 16

Quote: Stanislav 1978

sofa experts with wiki knowledge

I did not mean the word "Vladimir 16", he just expressed his opinion.
I am interested in the opinion of specialists on this issue.
As far as I understand, this resource was created primarily for experienced people who knew the essence of the problem to express their vision and thoughts of how correct this or that opinion or ideas.
Largely just for the sake of comments on articles, I visit this site.

[Dezinto]

What kind of disgrace? What parachute factory? what are you speaking about? The man is a pro! expressed an intelligent idea. What kind of tantrum? Everything is explained very rationally. What do you drag here?

[Vladimir16]

What parachute factory?

From 2002 to 2015, he worked as a test engineer at the Ivanovo Parachute Plant.

This is about the plant.

This idea is not new.
And issued by the author on her own and tied to the death of a particular pilot.

Work in this direction is underway.
Airborne for example receive new parachutes.


As a result, emotions, emotions, emotions

[Black Colonel]

tied to the death of a particular pilot
In my opinion this is not a binding, but specifically the given example. No more.

[Persistent]

Airborne for example receive new parachutes.

Styers in Ivanovo are experiencing.

[atos_kin]

Quote: Vladimir16

here on the forum powder brains

It seems that you have nothing to "powder". "Disgusting" is from your ignorance that in aviation EVERYTHING that the designers came up with is "based on blood", and only a parachute - in the first place.

[Dezinto]

EVERYTHING that the designers came up with is "based on blood", and only the parachute - in the first place.

Well, of course I have nothing to powder.

So is he your right or wrong? The pilot talks about his profession, talks about what he knows.

I'm arguing that all the instructions are on the blood? I say - "the man speaks the matter"!

Yes not no. No emotions, it’s just a purely applied article, but you heard the pilot, you began to resent ....

[volodimer]

This tragedy has already shown the problem with the inadequacy of the flight recorders: the body is intact, and the giblets are shattered. And if there are ideas on how to save the lives of pilots in such situations, then they need to be voiced. And for this you don't have to be an employee of a parachute factory or report earlier ... And nobody blamed the designers. When did wing parachutes become widespread? Again, the cost of re-equipping all aircraft with new systems, timing. But, once again, this situation, this tragedy showed that such a system is needed and it is necessary to discuss it.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: volodimer

the body is intact, and the giblets to smithereens

You are not telling the truth. Take a closer look at the video, where the case is shown close enough. There is a huge dent in the middle of the inner case.

[Bort radist]

Quote: volodimer

showed a problem with the unsuitability of flight recorders: the hull is intact, and the giblets are shattered.

I also thought, with modern speeds, the problem is ripe. Recorders must be shot away from the place of impact and explosion. Quench the fall rate and not necessarily a parachute.

[flay]

Quote: Vladimir16

Swine is its idea to push on the blood of a deceased pilot

Yes, what are you?
.And you don’t know that the army rules (all about action on the battlefield) written in blood.
And in your opinion, such a tactic for pilots and consider sin?
Following your fabrication, let the other pilots find themselves, God forbid, die in such a situation. However

Quote: Vladimir16

If he worked at a parachute factory, there he would justify his idea.
Or earlier in the service reported on his proposal. Actually blamed the death of the pilot of our designers.

So he ponders his idea. And as you know, ideas come when something changes. Because before it had never occurred to anyone. ANYONE, for the situation did not contribute.

He did not blame any designers.
It is very good that now is not the 37th year ... you did not remain without a job in it.
<< I am tormented by vague doubts >> And in what state did you write this post?

Nothing personal

[TOR2]

Quote: Vladimir16

Swinishness is its idea to push through the blood of a deceased pilot.

Apparently you are very far from a similar topic. Any such case is thoroughly dealt with, and conclusions are drawn from it. And above all, this is necessary in order to make impossible the development of such situations in the future. For clarity, I will give you an example.
If you remember, due to the careless actions of the dispatcher, the cargo Boeing rammed our passenger Tu-154 over the Geyrope. Collision warning systems on both aircraft warned the crews, but according to international rules, pilots had to follow the instructions of the controller. So after analyzing this accident, the rules were rewritten. Now prevailing for pilots who find themselves in such a situation is the indication of the system, and not the instructions of the controller.

[Pete mitchell]

Vladimir16, the author introduced himself - and who will you forgive? An experience? Skills Your soul just hurts, or you advocate for the cause.

I must say right away - I agree with the author, maybe belatedly, but if not to say, then there will be no changes, but they are necessary. This problem has existed for a long time. MSS has never been effective, so in history we are looking for a ton of examples. Let's be honest - combat search & rescue is where there is a need to take a closer look at the bourgeois, especially the striped ones.

I can also tell a joke from the general, I got the title for saving O'Grady

[bober1982]

Vladimr16: Speak correctly. When ejecting, the pilot (crew) is in a state of stress, what kind of parachute-wing can you talk about? And about which controlled flight?

[sso-xnumx]

Quote: Vladimir16

Swinishness is its idea to push through the blood of a deceased pilot.

For your information. The opinions and suggestions of a simple test engineer to create a fundamentally new product, none of the people responsible for the development and creation of arms and military equipment are not interested. That's when the leadership of Moscow Region or the type of Armed Forces will lower the pointer from above and back it up with money, then the leadership of the research institute or design bureau will stir. Only a few, such as P.O. Sukhoi, S.P. Invincible, A.G. Shipunov and a few more people. If you are unfamiliar with the specifics of staging OCD for new weapons and military equipment, then better keep quiet.

[mav1971]

Quote: Vladimir16

But here on the forum powdering brains, and besides hiding behind the death of our pilot, is too much.

Actually blamed the death of the pilot of our designers.

In my opinion you have full stuffing in your head.
If you do not understand that any development of weapons systems always comes after losses.
Without losses, awareness of the weaknesses and weaknesses of existing systems does not begin.
Parachutes would not have appeared without the loss of pilots.
An ejection system would not have appeared without the loss of pilots with increasing speeds.
A system of armor protection (body armor, booking vehicles and ships) of personnel and equipment would not have appeared without loss of personnel and this equipment.

The same thing with the development of attacking or radio potential.
If your attacking potential is weaker, then again you will have losses in personnel or equipment.
Always, no matter how regrettable it may sound, the evolution of everything related to military affairs occurs "on blood".
Someone, on the basis of someone's death, should have a "break" of thinking.
A kind of "moment of truth".
And someone should start thinking a little differently.
In order to eliminate the source of this "fracture". Eliminate the problem that leads to trouble.
Here is the author's "moment of truth" - the death of the pilot.

And you are deeply wrong.

[kazak08]

you are a stupid uneducated individual and I would give you 3 times in your face

[RoTTor]

Everyone judges by himself.

The pilot’s parachute appeared just after the death of the aviator captain Matsievich.

[RoTTor]

Everyone judges by himself.

The pilot’s parachute appeared just after the death of the aviator captain Matsievich.

[Old warrior]

Why disgusting? Are you not aware that all the safety instructions for someone and anything are written in blood? When designing, it is NOT possible to foresee EVERYTHING, and therefore this is being finalized as information becomes available.

[naraevskij1957]

There is a proposal - to equip. This is the main thing. Ah, there is a matter of designers

[earloop]

"Disgusting is his idea of ​​pushing through the blood of a dead pilot" - Disgusting is the prompt failure to take measures aimed at ensuring the life of the pilot. A man who connected his life with aviation and himself made 1800 parachute jumps, with pain in his soul writes about the available opportunities to rescue pilots in a combat situation. He did the right thing! This style of presenting a proposal aimed at the safety of the pilot is being introduced into practice faster. Respect and health to Ivanovites.

[bocsman]

The problem was announced very on time. Moreover, there is an opportunity to solve it!
It is clear that Russia will continue to actively promote its interests in the world and not without the help of the videoconferencing!

[tol100v]

Quote: polite people

to change the parachute system.

According to the mind, this question should not be brought up to our forum, but proposed to the developer of K-36 seats, NPO Zvezda, Tomilino. Who better to judge such a proposal than the designers of the world's best ejection seat?

[Maksus]

Doesn't it bother anyone that the wing is a system that requires control? And if the pilot is unconscious? If injured? Only on the "oaks" and lower it. The idea of ​​an additional parachute sounds all the more strange. Doesn't it bother anyone that there is an emergency supply, a beacon in the chair? Cut off the pilot will fly away the devil knows where and how to look for him? What kind of water will he drink?

[Saints]

The article refers to the wing as a fallback that can be used if necessary. And if necessary, it is better to be without water and a beacon than to collapse the barmaley.

[Maksus]

Let's go in order. A fighter is not a bomber, there is not enough space in it. If you noticed, then the pilot climbing into the cockpit has nothing with him. The parachute is mounted in a chair.
Further. Do you have jumping experience? If so, then remember what a joy it is when the compartment opens. Now imagine that you take out a sling cutter, cut off the slings and begin to pull out the spare tire. Is it scary?
Last - a beacon on which rescuers are dung. Where to mount it? In a pilot's suit? That is, he and the batteries still have to carry?

[Maksus]

Judging by the minuses, five people only did that they landed on the spare tire))))

[Black Colonel]

And if the pilot is unconscious? If injured? Only on the "oaks" and lower.
And if in consciousness, then let him get to the bearded?

[Maksus]

Once again I say, jump on a parachute with a forced opening (and the catapult does just that), then cut the slings or unfasten and open another parachute (if you can fix it somehow, so as not to interfere with the ejection seat).
I have little experience in jumping, but, as far as I remember, they are allowed to the wing only after 100 jumps (when the parachutist instructor is handed the badge).
It’s easier to equip the jumpsuit than something like a fly suit.

[Fregate]

I also thought about it. And such an idea occurred to me in general, I don’t know if it can be realized. So that after the bailout, the seat turns into a paralet (or parachute, what is it called right there?) And the pilot could fly at least 50 km on it. True, probably when ejecting at low altitudes this will not work.

[Black Colonel]

For eleven years, I thought that this is how the chair can be planned

[Cherdak]

Quote: polite people

God grant that they change the parachute system.

If interested, the topic is being actively discussed on the forum as early as May 11, 2009 http://aviaforum.ru/threads/nuzhen-li-parashjut-krylo-v-sisteme-spasenija-letchi

ka.22921 /

The fact is that the round dome of the pilot’s rescue system is still the same S-5. The dome is round, reliable, with quick opening, universal, in general, known for many years. We do not refuse this system. When bailout, it will work, as it did. C-5 opens in any case after bailout or leaving the aircraft.
If the height is low, the pilot is unconscious, injured, in shock, etc. - he lands on the regular S-5 dome, as always.
If the pilot is healthy, there is a margin of heights, he is not carried where he needs to - he uses (BY YOURSELF ONLY DECISION!) Revision. The essence of the revision:
A one-time parachute, at least of the type of a modern emergency wing, made of light materials used by modern parachutists, but in one version only, is a transit system. That is, when the main dome is uncoupled — the main parachute-wing is pulled into the stream by the outgoing main parachute, after which the C-5 falls separately, and the person on the controlled wing — lands, using the capabilities of the parachute-wing already.
Modern systems for uncoupling the canopy have already been invented, the "transit" scheme has already been worked out, modern materials already make it possible to make the parachute-wing very compact when folded down and light in weight. The pilot will not interfere with his work. It will be located - most likely on the harness, in the form of a soft back of a small thickness. Uncoupling locks of the main dome S-5 - KZU, OSK, soft hairpin-tape, pyro-cartridge, cut-off ... - at choice ...

[Persistent]

that is, when the main dome is uncoupled - the main wing parachute is pulled into the stream by the outgoing main parachute, after which the C-5 falls separately, and the person on the guided wing lands, using the capabilities of the wing parachute already.

I saw a similar pribluda in the mid-70s. On the T-4 m. A cable with two pins was attached to the right free ends and was fed through a long hose to the reserve valve. It was enough to unhook the "OSK" locks and the dome of the main one uncoupled the spare with a cable. The idea did not work. Everything turned out to be complicated.

[Persistent]

The fact is that the round dome of the pilot’s rescue system is still the same S-5

PSU 36 series 4-3 .... In Soviet times, the L - 39 "Albatross" were in a catapult Czech PL - 70 IK. The cup in the case contains a foam insert with a mosquito and oxygen. When the parachutes came to the schedule, the valve closing the hairpins was knocked off and some of the hairpins with badges. Once I got caught slightly bent. At low speeds, the pilots "wiggled" in the seat. And what is left of the extra parachute at higher speeds ?? On YouTube, you can see how the pilot shakes during turns ... The tie straps are tightened tightly only when ejecting ...

[alpamys]

Quote: polite people

Professionals are the pride of Russia. God grant that they change the parachute system.

I remember how at that time in our DOSAAF we tested the latest PO16 sports parachute, so the instructor said that the inventor was a woman who never jumped with a parachute.)) Then the Po16 refused during the tests and the instructor crashed, managed to pull the reserve, but it did not fill up, which led to the most difficult injuries.

[Persistent]

Then, during the tests, Po16 refused and the instructor crashed, managed to pull the spare wheel, but it did not fill up, which led to the most difficult injuries.

The spare wheel was apparently Z-5 .... Back in the late 80s, the PZ-81 appeared. So I tried to "grab" it when I jumped with the wing ...

[alpamys]

Quote: Persistent

Then, during the tests, Po16 refused and the instructor crashed, managed to pull the spare wheel, but it did not fill up, which led to the most difficult injuries.

The spare wheel was apparently Z-5 .... Back in the late 80s, the PZ-81 appeared. So I tried to "grab" it when I jumped with the wing ...

Z-5 was right.

[SeAl2014]

Jumped on "oaks". Yes, it's a target. Pilots need guided parachute systems. And teach them. I know that pilots do not like to jump.

[PKK]

Well done Viktor Romanychev, got to a serious VO website. As an inventor, I had the same thought, why pilots descend on parachutes, like targets. I recalled the story of the flyers during the Second World War, how they escaped then. The pilot began to swing on the slings like on a swing and knocked down the sight from the Earth and frightened the messengers so that they would not get confused in the slings. Why do they not teach the current ones and do not understand them themselves. The idea with a "wing" is very good. Let's add an article and let it come to the management that such a serious issue needs to be addressed.
It is surprising that the problem is solved after combat losses, and not before them. When our head starts turning on.

[cumastra1]

The Americans in Vietnam tried to create something like a paraglider with a motor. (a sort of Carlson overgrowth) So that a downed pilot could fly away from the place of ejection. But they refused. One of the reasons is that it’s very attractive to shoot at this miracle, and you also need to manage this monster, and bailout is not a jump from AN2. It will make it so that Mama Do not Cry. It was possible to treat pilots. Some said that they could not particularly move after this. So salvation is salvation — deliver from point A (heaven) to point B (earth). And no more. Everything else is no longer a salvation, but a continuation of hostilities.

[PKK]

I agree that bailout is equivalent to a strong concussion and the pilot is not able to move after it. But hanging as a target for practicing shooting at a parachutist is a suitable option? Then let's dress the pilot in a "transparent" invisibility cloak, wait, such clothes are fashionable.

[cumastra1]

The Americans in Vietnam tried to create something like a paraglider with a motor. (a sort of Carlson overgrowth) So that a downed pilot could fly away from the place of ejection. But they refused. One of the reasons is that it’s very attractive to shoot at this miracle, and you also need to manage this monster, and bailout is not a jump from AN2. It will make it so that Mama Do not Cry. It was possible to treat pilots. Some said that they could not particularly move after this. So salvation is salvation — deliver from point A (heaven) to point B (earth). And no more. Everything else is no longer a salvation, but a continuation of hostilities.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: PKK

It is surprising that the problem is solved after combat losses, and not before them. When our head starts turning on.

Don't get me wrong, flying wing parachute jumping is dangerous. If the pilot is already injured and unable to control, then he will most likely collapse to the ground. I think this is the only reason why these parachutes are being introduced with such difficulty in the army.

[Severok]

Sorry, but you didn’t read the article or went astride.
Here are the footnotes from the article: ... modify the parachute system so that its operation at extremely low and low altitudes remains unchanged, and at an altitude greater than 1000 meters, the pilot could, if necessary, unhook from the main rescue parachute, and after unhooking the main rescue parachute the parachute is automatically entered "wing".

... modify the harness for uncoupling the free ends of the main rescue parachute, sew the free ends of the "wing" to the harness, and place the dome in the chamber in the area of ​​the headrest of the ejection seat or on the harness. The already tried and tested 24 m² reserve parachute can be used as a "wing". The weight of the "wing" with a knapsack and a camera is no more than 4,5 kg, the volume is 6-7 liters.

Read and understand that the author in no way proposes to exclude the "onion" from the rescue system, but proposes to modify it in such a way that a parachute-wing can be used. If a person is conscious and can take advantage of this improvement - why deprive him of this chance?

I have the honor.

[Persistent]

... modify the harness for uncoupling the free ends of the main rescue parachute, sew the free ends of the "wing" to the harness, and place the dome in the chamber in the area of ​​the headrest of the ejection seat or on the harness

????? !!!!!! Have you seen, touched K-36 D ???? There, even a liter volume will not allow you to safely catapult ... 4-5 kg. require an increase in charge power, which will affect the additional load of the pilot’s spine ...

(clickable)

[Persistent]

modify the parachute system so that its operation at extremely low and low altitudes remains unchanged, and at an altitude greater than 1000 meters the pilot could, if necessary, unhook from the main rescue parachute, and after uncoupling the main rescue parachute, the "wing" is automatically introduced.



The only way forward is drone drone. There is no longer a parachute (except the braking one) or a catapult. Pilots will cease to die ....


On this I think you can close the discussion ...

[Throw]

Hoho, this discussion is only opening)

Have you seen, touched K-36 D ???? There even a liter volume will not allow you to safely catapult ... 4-5 kg. require an increase in charge power, which will affect the additional load of the pilot’s spine ...

You better touch yourself on the sides of the scales) And if you say that 4-5kg is critical, then you have two options for explanation:

-The chair changes the charge individually for each pilot ass-tsu (oh well! ..)
- ALL pilots are of equal mass (I knew that they were all clones! ... )

Your Answer?

[your1970]

it has already been written above that only a healthy pilot can control the "wing". Even the ejection process itself is, to put it mildly, large loads. In case of injury, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to control it. All the more, it will be impossible to make decisions: to unhook the main one, but if the wing is damaged ? To fly away from the chair is also not very good, there is NAZ. The formula "it is better to be without water and a beacon than to fall on the heads of the barmaley" - also does not always work, for example, deserts are such that it is better with a beacon and water than without them.
A significant complication of the system, which takes time to make a decision, which may not be necessary. The need for a significant increase in the number of jumps - our PDSniks (and even not all) jumped on their own wings, but they also had jumps factor of more than combat pilots.

“It’s surprising that the problem is solved after combat losses, and not before them. When our head starts to turn on.” - only with us? And for everyone else? It is not strange that with a sufficiently large number of pilots shot down during the existence of ejection seats (from -s, i.e. already 65 years) - they didn’t introduce any new methods of rescue in one state? But many mini-hang gliders, balloons, and parachute hitching were studied. But no, everywhere in the world everything is exactly like ours ...
Apparently this is the best way to save ..
Another question is what it may be necessary to strengthen the search service in the conditions of hostilities, and it can be radically ....

[ancient]

Quote: your1970

To fly away from the chair is also not very good, there is NAZ. The formula "it is better to be without water and a beacon than to fall on the heads of the barmaley" - also does not always work, for example, deserts are such that it is better with a beacon and water than without them.

The chair "FLIES away" .. ALWAYS !!!

Or 3000 meters when ejecting from a high altitude or 1500 meters when "coming out" at medium altitudes or in mountainous and hilly terrain.
When "going out" on small and PMV almost immediately after working out the bullet mechanism, multi-stage parachute system and the exit of the stabilizing parachute.
NAZ is not in the chair, but under the HOPPER and on it they sit and fasten their carbine to the earring on the jumpsuit (in the pocket where the sling cutter or awl is (this is for pilots on the Tu-22 old).
Lighthouse and emergency mosquito same in NAZ

[your1970]

sorry was wrong about the placement of NAZ-I personally did not encounter aircraft options, only helicopter ...

Do you disagree with the rest of the arguments?

[ancient]

Quote: your1970

Do you disagree with the rest of the arguments?

If I didn’t agree, then I wouldn’t have unsubscribed, and so .. only +!

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: ancient

ancient (

Physical education hello, the 45th !!!!
1000 winters

[Persistent]

The pilot began to swing on slings like on a swing and knocked down the sight from the Earth

The pole hole in the center of the dome will not allow swaying ...

[APASUS]

There is, of course, a good idea in this, but ........... this is the system of the last step, designed to save the life of the pilot, in a state of trauma, injury, pilot unconscious.
How will wing-type systems behave in conditions of strong wind and the pilot is unconscious?
When equipped with such a system, the pilot should receive minimal information about the wind, altitude, orient himself on the terrain and direction, this will entail additional equipment with devices made according to fault-free technology.
There are some moments with landing in the rear, so not everything is simple in this moment

[bocsman]

Quote: APASUS

How will wing-type systems behave in conditions of strong wind and the pilot is unconscious?

It is not clear whether you read the article carefully or not ?!

To prevent the death of pilots in combat conditions after ejection, I propose to modify the parachute system so that its operation at extremely low and low altitudes remains unchanged, and at an altitude greater than 1000 meters, the pilot could, if necessary, unhook from the main rescue parachute, and after the release of the main rescue parachute is automatically entered "wing". The pilot, controlling the "wing", flies along the navigator in the right direction. In the case of the death of Oleg Peshkov, this is at least 10 km.

In my opinion, everything is clear. The man thought everything through to the smallest detail. It is clear that he owns the topic thoroughly!

[APASUS]

Quote: bocsman

It is not clear whether you read the article carefully or not ?!

I understand that you didn’t read my koment either?
So you need as many as two parachutes, a navigation and control system, and this will not entail a change in mass and dimensions?
At the same time, the system itself becomes more complicated, is the wing automatically introduced, what is it? What if it is not displayed?
In this case, the standard system is designed to evacuate an unconscious pilot who is injured, to hell with a wounded pilot additional system if he can be disconnected?
There are a lot of questions, to save the pilot you need a simple system with 100% reliability, not the ability to return to base on your own parachute, you would be offered immediately

[lis-ik]

I agree with you, it is quite possible that after the bailout the pilot may be unconscious, especially if he received some injuries before that. The bailout itself is already partly a traumatic situation. Most likely, the option of controlled descent by parachute was considered, but perhaps it was rejected precisely because of the above reasons. Based on my modest experience working in defense design bureaus, I can say that they approach everything very thoroughly, for example, a whole department worked on boxes for spare parts and accessories!

[Throw]

I do not know what for the spare parts, but I would definitely put the department of "developers" of the "machete knife" from NAZ in a box. With nails.

[pts-m]

Well, what a reasonable idea. The main thing is to start and everything will go as it should.!

[Ros 56]

I absolutely agree with you, but this proposal should be addressed to the MO. During hostilities it is prohibited to use equipment intended for rescue without taking into account the theater of operations. Indeed, on the one hand, a bright coloring is used to facilitate the search for MSS groups, so not everything is clear. And the pilot can be injured, and simply cannot use the "wing", because it is impossible to foresee all situations. It's just, Victor, you need to think it over.

[Bronik]

Departing away from the place where the plane crashed, IMHO is a very correct idea. And not all people are scum.

[V.ic]

Very common opinion of the author of the article. Although there is some doubt. Once I watched 200 x 200 performed by Lieutenant Colonel Sinelnikov at the Golubovka airfield for a year like (?) 1984 (June? July?). It was a pro! AS RAP! Jumped from Mi-8 # 28 (flight technician Y. Lobachev), on a rescue parachute flight technician. Then he called from the Sever tavern to the duty officer / at that time my neighbor on the DOS site, our freelance PDS-nickname / "Nikolai, I miraculously survived!" The parachute stupidly did not want to "go out" / by the way, the re-packing period was not over / and the master of sports literally tore with his claws, pulling the parachute out of the packing. The opening of the canopy and damping of the speed to the established one ended literally 7-10 meters from the ground. So this was AC, a skydiving fanatic, so what to get from a private pilot? ..... questions, questions.

[Shark Lover]

After the start of the use of "Stingers" in the DRA, the flights of the turntables, not on the DB, began to be performed at night. It was very interesting and funny then. You fly on vacation, from a part to Kabul (airfield) 40 minutes of flight on MI8, (120 km), but taking into account the climb in a spiral, it turned out 40. You go into the turntable, they give you THIS rescue parachute, they hook the outboard and IT, to the level of the abdomen in front. Instructing the navigator, when you jump, the main thing is to immediately turn on your back in the air to the ground, etc., otherwise you will get entangled in the lines. The first thought was where to attach the suitcase, because on vacation! And in my opinion they gave 15 seconds, then, it seems, it was too late to jump, the blades would turn over. We were freaking out, although the DShBr seemed to be all jumping. How the pilot would behave after the catapult, most likely nothing, saved, saw. For the first time in my life I saw completely white eyes, only the black dots of the pupils in them. They need alcohol in order to quickly come to their senses when delivered to the ground, I don't know if there is. And the rescue of the pilot is the task of other services, rescue teams. Conclusion, the parachute is only a delivery vehicle (I completely agree), the rescue of the pilot, the task of the RESCUEERS and the organization of their work in the pilots' workplaces.

[Persistent]

they give you THIS rescue parachute, they hook it and HIS to the front level of the abdomen.

This is PN-58 ...

[krops777]

Good idea, give it to those who are engaged in the improvement of rescue systems.

[Borus017]

The ejection system must operate RELIABLY from 0 meters. Of course, it makes sense to consider the ability to change the canopy with a significant headroom, but with the reliability of the system - a question for professionals and developers. Perhaps it is reliability that is the obstacle. Again, the pilot can be stunned, shell-shocked, wounded, blinded ... There is no time for the "wing" ...

[Svist]

Quote: Borus017

Again, the pilot can be stunned, shell-shocked, wounded, blinded ... There is no time for the "wing" ...

So I understood that the transition to the "wing" will be carried out in manual mode, and here it is stunned, shell-shocked? It will simply continue the descent on the main non-steered parachute ... And the "wing" in reserve is an additional chance.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: Svist

Quote: Borus017

Again, the pilot can be stunned, shell-shocked, wounded, blinded ... There is no time for the "wing" ...

So I understood that the transition to the "wing" will be carried out in manual mode, and here it is stunned, shell-shocked? It will simply continue the descent on the main non-steered parachute ... And the "wing" in reserve is an additional chance.

Injury to wound - discord. Sometimes, some people, in a state of affect, even feel little of it. But with the loss of blood and a return to a more normal state, the pilot can no longer control the wing - the unbearable pain and clouding of consciousness will certainly prevent this, but the pilot could already open the wing, hoping that everything would be in order.

[PKK]

It is enough to develop the topic of injury, what should the pilot do, descending on the heads of the barmaleas?

[beard64]

.....
- "I am a first class navigator, until 1996 I served in the Air Force, flew on Tu-16, Tu-22m3, An-22. I have 1800 parachute jumps, of which more than 1000 as an air operator, master of sports. From 2002 to 2015 worked at the Ivanovo parachute plant as a test engineer. "
...
- to the author - only one question ....
- HOW MUCH WAS JUMPING / CATAPULATIONS / - he - while flying .. ????
/ the task of the pilot is to fly and not train to jump with a parachute /

[Persistent]

- HOW MUCH WAS JUMPING / CATAPULATIONS / - he - while flying .. ????

2 times a year (it is supposed) to get a kick in the tailbone using a pneumatic drive ...

[Bort radist]

Everything is correct. Leaving the board catapulting or legs, you encounter the problem of landing. The landing party is thrown to the site, but here as lucky. Even in peacetime, a maneuver is needed to select a landing point, to get away from a building, water, a high-voltage line. Slipping is not a good option. You lose more height than you move. I remember I wanted to practice - I chose the slings on the right, then on the left. As a result, I almost sat on the motorway, pulled myself up on slings through a furniture van and legs, the cuvette flew over the corner, knees beyond, elbows without injuries. Since then I realized - to hang and not rock the boat.

[Bosk]

Even if we do not take into account that human life is priceless, the cost of a wing parachute and its adaptation to an ejection seat in comparison with the cost of training a professional pilot ... is beyond comparison!

[Bort radist]

Quote: boroda64

/ the task of the pilot is to fly and not train to jump with a parachute /

It does not interfere. Some jump start 5 years before the first take-off.

[atamankko]

The idea is great, and let the specialists take care of the details.

[iouris]

I think it's about reliability. The proposed system is more complex, has a number of features, and therefore does not provide a given probability of salvation after bailout.
In addition, the idea is hardly new. I remember that the same Americans considered a balloon as an option to evacuate the pilot after bailout.

[Severok]

Modify the system so that, in addition to the "onion", one can also use the "wing", it is possible and necessary to test it. The training of a winged troops specialist is too valuable to save on saving him, if there is an opportunity to add this to all his chances of salvation, then it is worth doing.

I have the honor.

[bunny]

There is certainly a point in this, however ...
The author, being a parachutist, cannot fail to know that the overwhelming mass of all accidents, including fatal ones, happen to paratroopers when they land on "normally operating parachute systems." Landing even on a spare gliding canopy without canceling the horizontal speed almost always leads to injuries. Now imagine yourself as a pilot.
First, as mentioned above, pilots are taught to fly and not jump out at the slightest doubt, so the pilot leaves the plane already in a hopeless situation. The opened canopy saved the parachute, it is already perceived as a salvation, and try your luck for the second time in a row by unhooking the working canopy to introduce another, less secure one - this requires overcoming a very serious psychological barrier. Even skydivers do not always detach from the main one, with partial failures.
Secondly, after the ejection, the pilot may be injured or wounded, but this cannot be detected immediately. Descent from a height of about 5000 m will take about 15 minutes (!). During such a time, the condition can worsen very much, and landing without a "pillow" and even in the wind is sure death.
So in the near future, at least until the automatic parachute landing control system appears, I think everything will remain as it is.

[Pvi1206]

The new is always difficult to make its way into life. In the army as well.
It would be nice to quickly introduce this wonderful innovation, which provides the salvation of the lives of pilots in combat conditions.
Good luck to the author of the article in his work and life!

[Simoom]

In fact, the problem is more complicated than the author writes. The fact is that an experienced skydiver with 1800 jumps, a master of sports, cannot but know that the parachute wing has more stringent restrictions on its use, it is more sensitive to the wind, which sometimes makes its use impossible and requires longer training parachutist. Perhaps the solution to the problem would be an automatic system having the choice of using a conventional parachute and wing, depending on weather conditions at the ejection site.

[PKK]

Such a system is proposed, if the pilot is healthy enough and is shot at from the ground or descends into a dangerous area, he can hook onto the wing and glide in the right direction. If he is wounded, unconscious or not in danger, he continues to fly on the "onion". salvation.

[V.ic]

Quote: PKK

If injureddevilconsciousnesses

... the devil, of course, he will "turn off" the consciousness.

[Aleksandr1959]

An example of a bailout in extreme conditions. Would the "wing" work here or not? Question.
This is the accident of the Su-30MK in Le Bourget in 1999. The crew of the Design Bureau named after P.O. Sukhoi (Averyanov, Shendrik)

[ancient]

Quote: Alexander1959

An example of bailout in extreme conditions.

Sasha, absolutely sure, +! And what then "talk" about 89, where Kvochur in Le Bourget .. "jumped" .. what a nafig ... "wing"

[Saratoga833]

Quote: Alexander1959

Would the "wing" work here or not?

In these conditions "wing" is absolutely unnecessary! And in others it is even shown, for example, when ejecting from a great height and in the presence of an enemy at the landing site.

[Persistent]

In these conditions "wing" is absolutely unnecessary! And in others it is even shown, for example, when ejecting from a great height and in the presence of an enemy at the landing site.

Absurd absurdity !!! Depending on the assignment and assumptions, rearrange the chair with another parachute ???

The chair is going. The parachute system fits into the heading. Everything is sealed and sent to the aircraft factory. There, until the end of its useful life, the seat is assigned to your aircraft. ALL !!! Only after 5 years the headrest will be opened and the parachute will be rearranged for another 5 years !!! Everything else is fiction. I declare as a specialist ...

[VeteranVS]

PDSnik himself, I have a negative attitude to the author's idea. (the arguments are partially set out in the comment of the BARE). jump with a wing without preparation - guaranteed fracture. to prepare- IMPOSSIBLE, meaning the flight crew. the system is as follows. 30% of fighter pilots have a VLK conclusion: they are suitable for flight work without restrictions, not suitable for performing USP with a parachute. and this is not an anecdote. bottlenecks in the conduct of the AKP remain for decades, in the Ministry of Defense they do not itch. Afghan forgotten safely. the trouble is that the pilot rescue system is geared towards peacetime. starting with the coloring of the canopy of the rescue parachute (for the Americans, gray, dark gray), and ending with the lighthouse. why was captain Murakhtin FORCED immediately after landing to turn OFF the SEARCH beacon that was already in operation (automatically activated after the parachute was deployed)? because he turned out to be competent and sensible. he knew that the frequency of operation of his emergency "Komar-2m" 121,5 MHz is the single emergency frequency of aircraft on planet Earth. spat on the instrument, saved life. read the highlighted words, well, not wildness in their combination? did not disclose military secrets, resigned in the last century

[ancient]

Quote: VeteranVS

jump with a wing without training - guaranteed fracture. prepare- IMPOSSIBLE, referring to the flight crew. the system is as follows. 30% of fighter pilots have the conclusion of the VLK: it is suitable for flight operation without restrictions, it is not suitable for the performance of airborne flight with a parachute. and this is not a joke. AKP bottlenecks remain for decades

And all koment only + !!!

[V.ic]

Quote: VeteranVS

121,5 MHz is a single emergency frequency

You can add aviation 243MHz / spare / and 406,025MHz for portable emergency beacons.

[VeteranVS]

You can add, even need, we are talking about a single international emergency frequency. COSPAS-SARSAT including.

[Denimax]

Good idea, although doubts arise. The paraglider has been invented for a long time, and if the pilots do not have it, then the reason is possible in the technique. But it would seem ...

[Izotovp]

Why trifle-wing? Now more and more aircraft are equipped with armored capsules. So let's take the capsule itself and bail out with the pilot inside! And the wings can be inflated and the braking system landing and survivalist backpack with weapons and medicine. And not drown in the sea.

[V.ic]

Quote: Izotovp

So let's take the capsule itself and bail out with the pilot inside! And the wings can be inflated and the braking system landing and survivalist backpack with weapons and medicine. And not drown in the sea.

Forgot to mention alcohol for rubbing scratches after landing and sanitary napkins / well, so that ... there was no smell /.

[Izotovp]

and with all this x..we will try to take off !!

[Parsec]

In the F-111 two-seat cockpit, the pilots were located nearby, and starting from the 12th aircraft instance, the cockpit, along with the nose of the fuselage, began to be ejected. For this, it was equipped with a special rocket engine. After bailout, the cockpit parachute opens. To cushion when landing or to keep the cabin afloat, special inflatable floats are used.

[dchegrinec]

A lot of things can be done to evacuate the pilots. If you go far, you can come up with a chair with jet thrust and a single wing. Flew out, got wound up and flew home to Russia. Well, science does not always have time for events, what can you do. In the case of Turkey, they just did not expect that.

[Bort radist]

If you don’t have a wing, then get the opportunity to maneuver, and not just go down with a dandelion.

[Voenoboz]

As a rule, only after the tragedy I begin to think about a solution to the problem.

[parafoiler]

The whole reason is that the parachute rescue training program for flight personnel does not include exercises for extreme control of the canopy of a rescue parachute (sliding, increasing the vertical speed of descent, maneuvering using the capabilities of the rescue parachute system) ... And if you take into account the number of mandatory jumps parachute, which a pilot must perform in year -2, there can be no question of any skill! And by the age of 45, most of the flight personnel have been suspended from parachute training for medical reasons. And on the wing-type rescue parachute system they will be killed in fig! It is necessary to revise the parachute and rescue training of flight personnel in the direction of its mandatory implementation and its complication with the addition of simulations for controlling the system when descending under the canopy. And not to exempt pilots from training parachute jumps in "medicine" ...

[maestro123]

The idea itself is well presented in the article.
Yet again! How long does it take the pilots to think to leave the plane?
But the option of avoiding fire defeat is faster.

[Izotovp]

Such a suit needs clearance: at least 500 jumps, as I was told.

[iv-nord]

The idea is good. Rescue the pilot is a very important point. Life does not stand still.

[Sealek]

Viktor Romanovychev, I respect your opinion with respect and generally agree with him.
As an alternative, I can suggest a variant of replacing the need to "choose from two systems" by an ejected pilot, it is not known in what state - replacement of the rescue canopy with the Berkut-20 (by the way, now I do not see information on this type of double-shell, triangular canopy on the Internet).

[K-36]

Quote: Persistent

Tests were conducted on mannequins !!! But really, in the parking lot of only one slobber pilot, he was knocked out with a safe landing ....

The photo you posted is a photo montage. Just in this photo I asked a question to the Honored Pilot - Test Hero of the Russian Federation A. Yu. Garnaev. And he answered unequivocally: a fake, not a photo.
Sincerely.

[Volga Cossack]

Avtora- Happy Holiday !!!! even though I was a little late. sound idea - but is the question realizable ???

[VeteranVS]

Quote: Persistent

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

The K-36 D-3,5 armchairs were developed at Zvezda. Parachute PSU 36 ser. 4-3 is talcated and placed in a headrest with two presses for 5 years. This chair was used by the deceased pilot. In 2,5 years I have installed over 400 of these systems. Full triggering with the exit of the dome occurs in 0,8 seconds. This system was ejected with a dummy at a speed of 900 km / h. To reduce the dynamic shock when filling the dome, there are relief slots on it. A gliding parachute at such speeds will simply burst. Even the slider won't help !! The author does not take into account many additional factors. Wind direction and speed near the ground. In a strong wind towards the adversaries, the "wing" can only reduce to 0 msec. horizontal speed. That will allow the bastards to shoot the pilot. No room in the catapult for the second parachute !!!! And more ... If the pilot is injured or unconscious, he will not be able to use the release. There are no analogues to our catapults IN THE WORLD !!!! Leaving speed 0 km. hour Height 0 meters ... I heard the cry of the author's soul. Like all of you, I feel sorry for the deceased Hero !!! But the navigator is alive! So there should be no complaints about the bailout system. And I jumped more than the author, although I did not fly as a navigator ...

Quote: V.ic

Quote: VeteranVS

121,5 MHz is a single emergency frequency

You can add aviation 243MHz / spare / and 406,025MHz for portable emergency beacons.

I meant what the captain had in the NAZ: p-855um, and if in the shell, we get a mosquito-2m (MP), with a single frequency, without variations, of 121,5 MHz. barmalei were aware of the equipment NAZ-7m (..)

[Vovanfalcon]

Quote: Persistent

And although I have only 14 jumps, after the death of the pilot, I also thought about why not use controlled parachutes.

The K-36 D-3,5 armchairs were developed at Zvezda. Parachute PSU 36 ser. 4-3 is talcated and placed in a headrest with two presses for 5 years. This chair was used by the deceased pilot. In 2,5 years I have installed over 400 of these systems. Full triggering with the exit of the dome occurs in 0,8 seconds. This system was ejected with a dummy at a speed of 900 km / h. To reduce the dynamic shock when filling the dome, there are relief slots on it. A gliding parachute at such speeds will simply burst. Even the slider won't help !! The author does not take into account many additional factors. Wind direction and speed near the ground. In a strong wind towards the adversaries, the "wing" can only reduce to 0 msec. horizontal speed. That will allow the bastards to shoot the pilot. No room in the catapult for the second parachute !!!! And more ... If the pilot is injured or unconscious, he will not be able to use the release. There are no analogues to our catapults IN THE WORLD !!!! Leaving speed 0 km. hour Height 0 meters ... I heard the cry of the author's soul. Like all of you, I feel sorry for the deceased Hero !!! But the navigator is alive! So there should be no complaints about the bailout system. And I jumped more than the author, although I did not fly as a navigator ...

Now, this is a conversation of professionals, in fact, on which the author was counting, and not on sweeping accusations of populism.

[Aleksandr1959]

Emergency leaving the aircraft always causes an increased psychophysiological load on the pilot. Controlling the "wing" will strengthen it even more, plus it should be driven to the level of automatism.

[Brigadier]

Maybe they will change it when it’s completely impossible for the pilots to lose ... And the best catalyst for this is to put an official (responsible for changing the vertical parachutes to the planning ones) in some cheap plane, to knock this plane down carefully so that that official willy-nilly jumped out, and then from the ground to start firing this parachute. For surroundings, you can even hire a couple of bearded Mujahideen with machine guns. I am 100% sure that after such a catalyst (unless, of course, the official dies of fear) the pilots will have the right parachutes in a week !!!

[Chetbor]

The author of a little something perkuril - wear your personal parachute clothes for the entire flight crew
Let's start with the basics. I am a pilot from 1978 to 2006.
1. The flight-lifting crew must have at least 2 parachute jumps a year with landing on the ground (when we were also thrown into the water by cadets). Nobody is eager to do more, it’s enough to get a good dislocation and the hospital is ensured instead of flying, and there they can write off how the suit will fall ...
Conclusion - the use of sports and other parachute rags is clearly not welcome if there is no problem to knock down the flight crews clean.
2. The author does not understand the simplest thing - Parachuting and emergency escape from the aircraft are TWO HUGE differences, the task of the latter is to save the crew from an emergency on board the aircraft, and not to ensure that air travel from point A to point B.
3. As correctly indicated above - the K-36 parachute system is designed for high speeds, sports and aircraft - no.
4. The most important thing - ALL sporting and flying parachutes are more than demanding of their position and the position of a person when opening, the author obviously cunning, not describing how many hundreds of cases of folding, overlapping and other things when opening them are a good example of how to emergency and fall into catastrophic due to overlap ....

[pafegosoff]

In the magazine "Technics-Youth" 35-40 years ago, various systems of piloted seats were considered (with a delta-wing, with a folding rotor, etc.) And still settled on the K-36 and a parachute.
Ejection only reduces the likelihood of death. REDUCES. And the complexity of the system ... Then, let’s save in absolute terms, absolutely without risk - to fight only with telemetry robots.

[Nexus 6]

The author offers a solution that is "on the surface". It is absolutely clear that "wing" is not a way out. Here they described it well, at least that it should be disclosed after the main one ... So we need to look for an "inventive" solution. And no one will say right now what it will be. Something else, maybe not seen before, sorry for the pathos. R&D is necessary.
"You don't know anything," Stalin waved his hand. "If a problem arises that does not contradict the laws of physics, mechanics and chemistry, and its solution is necessary for the Motherland, then it will be solved - that is what Soviet power is."

[Siberlight]

The K-36 is considered the optimal model for pilots, the "wing" is a very capricious thing, and the color of the parachute was chosen not by chance, but to facilitate the task of the search and rescue group. But the color can be changed to a more inconspicuous one and the search and rescue team can be oriented to the signals of the pilots' beacons.

[mpzss]

I suggest...

author, who do you offer?
Did you write in KB? in the videoconferencing system?
I explain: we, on the forum, do not have to offer! It is necessary to write not sentences, but either those. data, or just your opinion! Everything, nothing more is needed!

[marder4]

thought after Syria ...

[Denis Skiff]

Quote: Vladimir16

I think you are not the only one thinking about this.

What the author does is called POPULISM.

Your cons confirm this.
You minus for the death of the pilot.

The author found a solution in two paragraphs!
Good for you!

you are concerned about the cons for the death of the pilot. he took care of parachutes for the life of the pilots.

[Rusfaner]

Quote: Persistent

And I jumped more than the author, although I did not fly as a navigator .... hi

Well, I could not help but insert my "5 kopecks", I even had to register!
It was amazing to read the comment of a man who has more than 1800 jumps (very respect and envy) and denies an additional chance of survival for the pilot. Unfortunately, many pilots are "fools", dismissive of parachutes and parachutists. I experienced it myself, especially when I moved from the lines at the helm, continuing to jump. At the same time, I had to see (thank God, in a non-combat situation) how helplessly the pilots flew to "build nests in trees" when the wind situation changed during planned jumps. I agree with other authors that pilots need the skill to control a parachute.
I also agree with my friend, who reminded opponents that putting the "wing" into operation is possible and necessary only in extreme cases. And in a life-threatening situation, "whether you bend your legs or not, is the second thing." If you want to live, you will not be so upset "(c).
PS To somehow "stimulate" the active pilots had to jump from the C4-U from the Yak-18T to 100 m.

[AdekvatNICK]

we start thinking only after the trouble comes, we start thinking only after the sanctions ... after the killing of the pilots ... after the terrorist attacks ... after the meldonium doping scandals ... after the death of athletes, after a series of plane crashes ... after chains of unsuccessful missile launches .... there is, of course, such an expression as, learning from mistakes "but this is not applicable to us, we always start thinking seriously only after something happens. We always need to give some kind of acceleration, we always sleep lazily stretching. Then we start patching everything up in a hurry. Mentality or something.

[commander]

I can tell you stupidity, but about three or four years in the past, there was an article that our designers were given the task of developing such a parachute system. If I am not mistaken, they proposed a universal system, when opening it turns out a dome and, if necessary, slings are drawn and a wing is obtained. Or it was invented for technology.

[complete zero]

Quote: Vladimir16

Swinishness is its idea to push through the blood of a deceased pilot.

If he worked at a parachute factory, there he would justify his idea.
Or earlier in the service reported on his proposal.

But here on the forum powdering brains, and besides hiding behind the death of our pilot, is too much.

Actually blamed the death of the pilot of our designers.

It would be nice to do their own thing, not chatter.

so it’s actually that, most of the knowledge of the means of salvation (and not only in aviation) is written in blood ... where did you find an insult to the memory of the deceased pilot, except in your own fantasies