Military Review

The lessons of the Soviet-Polish war

63
The lessons of the Soviet-Polish war



And now the Poles remember the events of those years very selectively.

The Bolsheviks with regard to Poland were more than loyal then, controversial issues could be resolved at the negotiating table. They were frustrated by the Polish leader Jozef Pilsudski, who had ambitious geopolitical plans and behaved in about the same way as the current President of Turkey.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan raving Ottoman Empire, Pilsudski tried to recreate the Commonwealth.

From a sick head to a healthy one


Poland appeared on the political map of the world immediately after the end of the First World War. The ease of acquiring the state turned Pilsudski and other politicians around. They immediately rushed to push the borders of Poland in all directions.

Territorial disputes arose among the Poles not only with the Germans, but also with Czechoslovakia - because of the Teshen region, with Lithuania - because of the Vilnius region, with the Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR) - because of Lviv, Eastern Galicia, Kholm region and Western Volyn. Not surprisingly, in 1919 - 1920's. Belarusians and Ukrainians, Czechs and Slovaks, Russians and Jews, Lithuanians and Latvians saw aggressors, marauders and murderers in Poles.

Although Pilsudski has unleashed a war with Russia, some Polish historians such as the professor at the Torun University named after Nicolaus Copernicus Zbigniew Karpus, - in public speeches is called the aggressors of the Bolsheviks, nodding to the fact that in August the 1920 of the Red Army reached Warsaw.

It has long been known that the Poles have a kind of logic and a strange memory. As the writer Stanislav Kunyaev aptly remarked, "they will remember and repeat everything with all their benefits, with manic persistence. But everything that they want to forget is forgotten instantly." It is as if Polish historians do not know that telling about the Soviet-Polish war from the battle near the walls of the Polish capital is the same as starting the story of the Great Patriotic War from the Battle of Kursk or Operation Bagration.

It all started with the fact that from November 1918-th to March 1919-th Moscow with a dozen times unsuccessfully appealed to Warsaw with a proposal to establish normal interstate relations. Pilsudski regarded this as a sign of weakness.

In the spring of 1919, Polish forces armed with the Entente captured Kovel, Brest-Litovsk, Slonim, Pinsk and other Ukrainian, Belarusian and Lithuanian cities. The Red Army, fighting in the east of the country with the armies of Admiral Alexander Kolchak, and in the south with the forces of General Anton Denikin, had to fight with the Poles.

Who started the Soviet-Polish war, at that time, everyone knew, including the leaders of the Entente countries who publicly cursed the Bolsheviks. Here are just this knowledge, they exchanged among themselves behind the scenes.

On April 11, in a report to US President Woodrow Wilson, the US representative to the Entente mission in Poland Major General J. Kernan admitted that "although in Poland all the messages and conversations constantly speak about Bolshevik aggression, I could not notice anything like that. On the contrary I noted with satisfaction that even insignificant clashes on the eastern borders of Poland testified rather to the aggressive actions of the Poles and to the intention to occupy the Russian lands as soon as possible and to advance as far as possible. the swarm they succeeded in is proving that the Poles were not opposed by well-organized Soviet armed forces. "

All those who accuse the Bolsheviks in the attack on Poland, falsify history.

Words and deeds of "peddlers" of Polish culture


Like today, 100 years ago, the Poles were convinced that they were more cultured and civilized than their eastern neighbors. In this Polish elite was united. The long-time rival of Pilsudski, the leader of national democrats, Roman Dmovsky, glorified the “civilizational potential of great people” and considered the Polish ethnic element in Lithuanian, Belarusian and Ukrainian lands as “the dominant and only civilizational force capable of political organization.”

Practice disproved pompous words. 19 April Polish troops broke into Vilna. Among those defending the city was a member of the Military Field Tribunal of the Western Rifle Division Pole Witold Kozerovsky. Being wounded, he fell into the hands of the “peddlers” of Polish culture: “When he regained consciousness, I saw that one of the legionnaires was holding my wallet; after withdrawing money from him, he threw it under the stable frame. I was drenched in blood, without boots and overcoats , the wadded sweatshirt was torn, the cap disappeared somewhere. I groaned. One of the group of legionnaires who were standing nearby clicked the shutter and intended to finish me off, but he was prevented by a cry in Polish: "Don't bother, then komisazh" ...
Legionnaires, all guys up to twenty, listened to this advice, found somewhere a piece of barbed wire, twisted my arms back, firmly tied up with wire and, pushing me with blows of butts, led me to the city. My condition was terrible. "

Koserovsky was still lucky: he was not shot at the moment of his capture, he was not beaten to death in prison and did not die of hunger on the way to the camp.

About what happened in the Polish death camps in 1919 - 1922, I had occasion to write in the article "The Life and Death of Red Army Soldiers on the" Islands "of the Polish" Gulag ".

I should add that the Poles scoffed not only at prisoners of war, but also at internees. The same Kozerovsky described the order that prevailed in the summer of 1919 in the Wadowice camp:

"There were more than 8 thousands of people interned in this camp ... The regime was generally nightmarish. They were beaten all day and night. They were never beaten for the slightest disturbance of camp order, and they were beaten under every pretext of the imaginary camp violation of order and without any pretext ...

The food was disgusting ... They gave out a decoction of dried vegetables and a kilogram of bread per 8 person once a day, and nothing more. For a huge number of internees there was only one kitchen and one restroom ...

Women were raped, people with disabilities were beaten all day. Around the barracks, where people with disabilities were located, moans and cries of the tortured were heard. In the women's barracks, drunken orgies began at night. Drunk, vomit drenched corporals and soldiers, sometimes coming out of the women's barracks at night and starting firing, electing the barracks of people with disabilities as targets.

Women and children were taken out into the streets and forced to sing and dance ...

With such orders, food and mode it is not surprising that up to thirty people died every day. "

The fact that the Poles were in no hurry to improve the situation in the camps, confirmed Professor Madsen, a member of the commission of the League of Nations, who visited Wadowice more than a year later, in November 1920 of the year. Madsen called this camp "one of the worst things he saw in life."

96 has passed since then. During this time, the Poles did not bother to perpetuate the memory of Red Army men and other people from the territory of the former Russian Empire who were tortured in their camps. Now the Poles are destroying monuments to Soviet soldiers who liberated them from the Nazis and won them the right to life, and also demand that a monument to Polish President Lech Kaczynski be erected in Russia. But he harmed Russia, where he could.

Suffice it to recall that on August 12 of 2008, he flew to Tbilisi at the head of a detachment of friends of the President of Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili, and publicly accused Russia of coming to the aid of South Ossetia for aggression. As political analyst Sergei Chernyakhovsky rightly noted, "Russia has no reason to keep the memory of Kaczynski and honor his enemy." Monuments to the enemies of Russia can be set only by their accomplices or idiots.

As Wrangel for Pilsudski zazrya "chestnuts from the fire" dragged


In the works on the Civil War, Soviet historians put Pilsudski in a common line of opponents of Soviet power. Meanwhile, he was not an ally of whites. In the same way, he was never an ally of the Reds. Therefore, we can agree with the biographer of Pilsudski, the Polish historian Wlodimierz Sulei, that the head of Poland "equally treated the two imperialist Russian forces, regardless of their color ... The internal struggle between them did not matter to him until it threatened Poland's interests."

It is indicative that in October 1919 of the year - at the climax of the confrontation between whites and reds - when General Nikolai Yudenich's troops were on the outskirts of Petrograd, and Denikin's troops rushed towards Tula, the Poles were inactive.

But they became more active at the beginning of 1920, when it became clear that the Bolsheviks would win the Civil War. 7 May Poles occupied Kiev left by the Reds without a fight. In the capital, the "mothers of Russian cities" was a parade of Polish and Petlura troops.

The invaders were in charge in Kiev for just over a month. Leaving the city, the Polish "civilizers" disabled the city sewage system, power station, passenger and freight station of the railway.

Not lucky and the city of Borisov. At the end of May, Polish artillerymen bombarded him with incendiary and chemical projectiles for two days. The city was almost completely destroyed, about five hundred civilians died, 10 thousand people were left homeless. The Soviet government announced this crime in a note from 2 of June 1920 to the governments of Great Britain, France, Italy and the USA. "Civilized West" responded to it in much the same way as in 2014, it met the information of Moscow about the shelling of the Kiev junta of the cities of the DPR and the LPR.

Reds drove the Poles to Warsaw. To stop the escaped troops, Pilsudski used detachments, which neither the Poles themselves nor their like-minded people in Russia and Ukraine ever recall.

“When the Bolsheviks attacked Warsaw, there was nothing there, only the police remained. Even the mail and telegraph were taken out,” testified the Polish communist Vladislav Ulyanovsky in September of 1920 at the IX Conference of the RCP (B).

Italian Ambassador to Poland Francesco Tommazini recalled that the Reds approached the Vistula so much that "they were stopped only 7 km from the river separating the city from the Prague suburb. This event caused strong excitement and a quick departure of the diplomatic corps from the capital, which now entered the theater military operations: cannon shooting was clearly heard, the roads were crowded with troops, and wagons filled with wounded were driven by, loaded directly from the battlefield for delivery to hospitals. "

And in this situation, the White Guards came to the aid of Pilsudski. On July 25, Peter Wrangel’s troops launched an offensive with the aim of defeating a group of Soviet troops in the Orekhov region and seizing Aleksandrovsk (now Zaporozhye) and Yekaterinoslav (now Dnepropetrovsk). 2 August Aleksandrovsk was whites taken.

A stab in the back was an unpleasant surprise for the armies of the Western and South-Western Reds fronts that stormed Warsaw and Lviv. On August 19, the Politburo of the Central Committee of the PKK (B) decided to recognize the "Wrangel front as the main one." It was then that the notorious “miracle on the Vistula” happened - the Poles defended Warsaw and launched an offensive.

It soon became clear that neither the Bolsheviks nor the Poles had the strength to continue the war. On October 12, the parties entered into an armistice and peace terms.

In just one month, the Red Army defeated Wrangel's troops and forced them to leave the Crimea. Baron didn’t wait for help from Pilsudski, from which he could draw a conclusion that is relevant for us: indulge the Poles and, especially, carry the “chestnuts out of the fire” for them under no circumstances ...
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/science-tech/2016/03/20/istoriya-khkh-veka/773749-uroki-sovetsko-polskoi-voiny
63 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Cartalon
    Cartalon 26 March 2016 06: 06
    0
    A biased presentation, but the fact that the Poles were such Poles was not doubted by anyone.
    1. avt
      avt 26 March 2016 08: 28
      +18
      Quote: Cartalon
      Biased presentation,

      In what? The Poles did not attack the RSFSR FIRST! ?? After they became independent, like Finland, where, under the leadership of the Germans, without problems and the support of the Bolsheviks, they massacred their Reds? What is addiction then? In what the author did not indicate, the truth is not the topic of the article, about the fact that long before the Molotov-Ribentropp Pact they signed the EXACTLY the same treaty and, together with the Germans, bullied the Czechoslovakians? Can you say something for Katyn? This is where the really biased presentation from all sides, especially from ours from the destalinizers! Look for and learn a lot of interesting things about the “Promethean movement” and who stirred it up, then you will realize who, on the orders of Stalin, Beria's people rolled into the ground there.
      1. Cap.Morgan
        Cap.Morgan 26 March 2016 11: 58
        +1
        Quote: avt
        Quote: Cartalon
        Biased presentation,

        In what? The Poles did not attack the RSFSR FIRST! ?? After they became independent, like Finland, where, under the leadership of the Germans, without problems and the support of the Bolsheviks, they massacred their Reds? What is addiction then? In what the author did not indicate, the truth is not the topic of the article, about the fact that long before the Molotov-Ribentropp Pact they signed the EXACTLY the same treaty and, together with the Germans, bullied the Czechoslovakians? Can you say something for Katyn? This is where the really biased presentation from all sides, especially from ours from the destalinizers! Look for and learn a lot of interesting things about the “Promethean movement” and who stirred it up, then you will realize who, on the orders of Stalin, Beria's people rolled into the ground there.

        Where did the Reds come from in Finland, which were cut out with the support of the Germans. Yes, they staged a bloody riot there. They shot everyone who had decent trousers and hands without calluses. At the end of the finals it bothered, they gathered and nailed the expropriators.

        Do you naively think that on the other side of the front everything was different?
        That is, the Leninist Red Terror was different from the Polish regime for the better.
        There, white and fluffy Trotsky and Dzerzhinsky for a couple shot the hostages on the basis of origin. Are you literate? Do you work as an accountant? Come to the basement, to the wall.
        What about Katyn?
        Is there something wrong? Shot by the same class principle.
        The officer? Policeman? Love your homeland? Dare to have an opinion? To the wall.
        Because preparing for the world revolution.
        That's just the Europeans are dumb.
        By the way, the hero of the Polish campaign Tukhachevsky mustard poisoned people in the Tambov region. Such a hero and a red marshal.
        1. Conrad
          Conrad 26 March 2016 12: 37
          +8
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          That is, the Leninist Red Terror was different from the Polish regime for the better.

          And you do not even need to ask about trolls. Explicit Manipulator of Consciousness!
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          That is, the Leninist Red Terror was different from the Polish regime for the better.

          YES was different !!! And for the better !!! Since a priori was the answer! After the start of the White Terror, and in response to it. Learn the history of the "captain" not by the manuals and "Solzhenitsyn"!
          The first decrees of the Soviet government "On Peace" and "On Land", and after - the abolition of the death penalty for all! And a lot of other things, useful and democratic. And the "White" decided that it was from weakness, as after the Poles. And it was they who started the civil war. On them lies the curse of history and guilt for all subsequent deaths and horrors.
          As well as those who began to kill in Kiev and Lviv, regardless of what their opponents then committed in response to the killings.
          Something like this!
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 26 March 2016 18: 57
            +1
            Quote: Conrad
            The first decrees of the Soviet government "On Peace" and "On Land", and after - the abolition of the death penalty for all!

            Decrees .... the Bolsheviks knew how to write the decrees, the decree "On Land" is especially touches))) well, well ..
          2. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 26 March 2016 22: 44
            +1
            Quote: Conrad
            Quote: Cap.Morgan
            That is, the Leninist Red Terror was different from the Polish regime for the better.

            And you do not even need to ask about trolls. Explicit Manipulator of Consciousness!
            Quote: Cap.Morgan
            That is, the Leninist Red Terror was different from the Polish regime for the better.

            YES was different !!! And for the better !!! Since a priori was the answer! After the start of the White Terror, and in response to it. Learn the history of the "captain" not by the manuals and "Solzhenitsyn"!
            The first decrees of the Soviet government "On Peace" and "On Land", and after - the abolition of the death penalty for all! And a lot of other things, useful and democratic. And the "White" decided that it was from weakness, as after the Poles. And it was they who started the civil war. On them lies the curse of history and guilt for all subsequent deaths and horrors.
            As well as those who began to kill in Kiev and Lviv, regardless of what their opponents then committed in response to the killings.
            Something like this!

            As it’s not very clear what you mean by triol. In my opinion, they say this when they are not able to answer reasonably.

            There are your campaigns about manuals and Solzhenitsyn.

            Do you think that the argument in the spirit of the Politburo and the newspaper True can convince someone?

            You didn’t mislead anything there? The Bolshevik coup with all the excesses on any was earlier than the beginning of the white resistance. By the time White began to gather in the Don, thousands were already tortured in the basements of the Cheka.
            Do not distort and confuse cause and effect, dear follower of Vyshinsky and Dzerzhinsky.
        2. avt
          avt 26 March 2016 13: 36
          +6
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          Where did the Reds come from in Finland, which were cut out with the support of the Germans.

          "Study, study and study communism properly" First, we look for the memoirs of General Rudiger von der Goltz "My mission in Finland and the Baltic states" and read about his adventures in Finland in 1918. Then nonsense about
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          Are you literate? Do you work as an accountant? Come to the basement, to the wall.

          you will not repeat.
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          What about Katyn?
          Is there something wrong? Shot by the same class principle.

          It’s not so much that you perform a capercaillie on a current - you listen only to your artistic whistle. And when you finish and start materiel to teach
          Quote: avt
          ! Look for and learn a lot of interesting things about the “Promethean movement” and who stirred it up, then you will realize who, on Stalin's orders, Beria's people rolled into the ground there.

          You will learn the composition of the liquidated senior officers of the Polish intelligence, gendarmerie and police, who were shot not according to the class, but to the very sign of joint work against the USSR, and before its creation from the moment of the founding of Poland as a state, the RSFSR.
          1. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 26 March 2016 22: 49
            +1
            Quote: avt
            Quote: Cap.Morgan
            Where did the Reds come from in Finland, which were cut out with the support of the Germans.


            You will learn the composition of the liquidated senior officers of the Polish intelligence, gendarmerie and police, who were shot not according to the class, but to the very sign of joint work against the USSR, and before its creation from the moment of the founding of Poland as a state, the RSFSR.

            Where can I get acquainted with the cases of executed citizens of Poland, with the course of the process, speeches of lawyers, testimonies of the accused? I specifically want to know where these materials are.
            Or were they simply killed like cattle in a slaughterhouse? Is this "the pinnacle of socialist justice"?
            1. Ulan
              Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 31
              0
              The Germans have where else. They shot the Poles in Katyn, ask them. In the thirties in the USSR, no one thought about a world revolution, there was no time for that, there were other, more pressing problems, and the associates of the "demon of the world revolution" were greatly reduced.
        3. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 26 March 2016 20: 38
          +6
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          They shot everyone who had decent trousers and hands without calluses.

          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          There, white and fluffy Trotsky and Dzerzhinsky for a couple shot the hostages on the basis of origin.

          Presumably, Trotsky and Dzerzhinsky had calloused hands?)))
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          What about Katyn?
          Is there something wrong? Shot by the same class principle.
          The officer? Policeman? Love your homeland? Dare to have an opinion? To the wall.
          Because preparing for the world revolution.

          What does Katyn have to do with the World Revolution? Eka your brains then za ...
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          That's just the Europeans are dumb.

          The stump is clear! It contains capital only fascism, Nazism and liberalism. And the opposite ideology is the first enemy !!!
          Quote: Cap.Morgan
          By the way, the hero of the Polish campaign Tukhachevsky mustard poisoned people in the Tambov region. Such a hero and a red marshal.

          So he received in full in 1937! Or are you up to date?
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 26 March 2016 21: 26
            +2
            Quote: AllXVahhaB
            So he received in full in 1937!

            he received it, but not for the Tambov uprising.
          2. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 26 March 2016 22: 54
            +1
            Was Tukhachevsky yours? Why are you doing it like that?
            Underexplored istmat or lost a party ticket. Or was he simply not devoted enough to the cause of the Party? Left bias, right bias, Shelenberg and Benes folder that no one has ever seen))) Choose for every taste.
            About Katyn is not mine. This is the answer to the previous speaker, AVT, all questions to him. You do not follow the discussion.)))
            1. AllXVahhaB
              AllXVahhaB 27 March 2016 16: 51
              0
              Quote: Cap.Morgan
              Was Tukhachevsky yours?

              Whose is this? For you and Stalin and Trotsky are representatives of one side?
            2. Ulan
              Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 33
              0
              Read the case file.
      2. Conrad
        Conrad 26 March 2016 12: 29
        +2
        Quote: avt
        then there will come an awareness of whom, on the orders of Stalin, the people of Beria drove there to the ground.

        Uncle! Aren't you a troll for an hour? Why, with the correct beginning of the post at the end, insert an explicit anti-Soviet and anti-Russian FALSE ???
        The order of Comrade Stalin and Beria's people is very well described in the book "Katyn Detective". And enough of this stupid, (not to say worse) nonsense to replicate !!!
        1. avt
          avt 26 March 2016 13: 40
          +4
          Quote: Conrad
          Uncle! Aren't you a troll for an hour?

          Uncle is simply trying to read more than one book on a topic of interest to him, again from different authors and preferably from different points of view. Try helps to learn by comparison.
          1. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 26 March 2016 20: 11
            +5
            avt "Uncle is simply trying to read more than one book on a topic of interest to him, again by different authors and, preferably, also holding different points of view."
            A person registered on the site on February 22, 2016 severely asks if you are a troll, dear avt.))))
            1. avt
              avt 26 March 2016 21: 39
              +5
              Quote: Nagaibak
              A person registered on the site on February 22, 2016 severely asks if you are a troll, dear

              request Kondrat he is, we must be careful, otherwise ka-a-ak is enough. wassat
    2. Roman 11
      Roman 11 26 March 2016 19: 10
      0
      Everywhere there are normal people.
  3. Geophizik
    Geophizik 26 March 2016 06: 29
    +14
    The centuries-old hatred of the Poles towards Russia is indeed based on an extremely overestimated self-assessment of the "civilizational mission" of Catholic Poland and a derogatory assessment of all other peoples. History has taught the Poles nothing. Without the goodwill of the USSR, Poland would have turned out to be the same limitrophe as the present Baltic republics, without serious industrial potential and with a very symbolic access to the Baltic Sea, a territory that has shrunk to a minimum.
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 40
      +1
      I think there is one more aspect. Russia is one of the reasons that dreams of ambition about Poland from Mozh to Mozh have not come true.
      Russia turned out to be stronger. Although at the beginning of the confrontation, Poland was perhaps even stronger than Russia, but the ambition of the lords played a cruel joke with them. "Poland is strong by parsing" - remember such statements of the gentry. Any smallest nobleman could shout out at the Diet - "not permissible" and the decision was not made.
      This is how Poland and prosper were quarreling .... their greatness, but Russia was to blame, which, on the contrary, was centralized and returned its lands that had been previously captured by Poland.
      The Poles should blame themselves primarily for their defeats, but perhaps the pan can admit that he turned out to be a historical loser.
      In this he is similar to the Svidomo Ukrainians, who brought the country to the brink, but the "damned maskals" are to blame.
  4. Good cat
    Good cat 26 March 2016 07: 18
    +7
    And we raised and supported the whole road of our worst enemy.
  5. crasever
    crasever 26 March 2016 07: 27
    +5
    The Poles are modest - once from Mozh to Mozh, well, they would have offered the Bandera lasts in Kiev to return Kresy to the Sunrise: Lviv, Ternopil and Volyn!
    1. Ulan
      Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 40
      +1
      Not yet evening. Will offer.
  6. Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 26 March 2016 07: 52
    +11
    And now the Poles remember the events of those years very selectively.
    - Well, still - to remember how the Vilna region was chopped off from Lithuania, about the abuse of the captured Red Army soldiers in the Tuhely death camp, they do not want at all. But extorting preferences for Katyn and dreaming of "Rzhea Pospolita from May to May" is much more pleasant. It was not for nothing that Poland of those years, even in the West, was called the jackal or the hyena of Europe.
    the rules that prevailed in the summer of 1919 in the Wadowice camp:
    "There were more than 8 thousands of people interned in this camp ... The regime was generally nightmarish. They were beaten all day and night. They were never beaten for the slightest disturbance of camp order, and they were beaten under every pretext of the imaginary camp violation of order and without any pretext ...
    The food was disgusting ... They gave out a decoction of dried vegetables and a kilogram of bread per 8 person once a day, and nothing more. For a huge number of internees there was only one kitchen and one restroom ...
    Women were raped, people with disabilities were beaten all day. Around the barracks, where people with disabilities were located, moans and cries of the tortured were heard. In the women's barracks, drunken orgies began at night. Drunk, vomit drenched corporals and soldiers, sometimes coming out of the women's barracks at night and starting firing, electing the barracks of people with disabilities as targets.
    Women and children were taken out into the streets and forced to sing and dance ...
    With such orders, food and mode it is not surprising that up to thirty people died every day. "
    - And the current Pshek don’t really want to remember about this, because it turns out that in this case they - the Poles anticipated the crimes of the German Nazis with their concentration camps.
    That Pilsudski, that his current followers are haunted by the achievements of Stefan Batory - they all consider Poland a great power, although this country has never been such.
    I have the honor.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 26 March 2016 07: 59
    +5
    On April 26, 1920, in Zhitomir, Jozef Pilsudski addressed the Ukrainian people, confirming his right to independence and his own choice of state structure. For his part, Semyon Petlyura emphasized the inviolability of the Polish-Ukrainian union .... So, the line to the article ..
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 26 March 2016 14: 27
      0
      smile Otminusoval, the one who does not want to remember about the Polish-Ukrainian friendship during the civil war .. But what do you remember, put the monuments to Pilsudski .. the best friend .. for the independent Ukraine fit in .. I just dreamed about the "independent" Ukraine ... smile
    2. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 26 March 2016 15: 51
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      On April 26, 1920, in Zhitomir, Jozef Pilsudski addressed the Ukrainian people, confirming his right to independence and his own choice of state structure. For his part, Semyon Petlyura emphasized the inviolability of the Polish-Ukrainian union .... So, the line to the article ..

      I would be in the place of Pilsudski, to whom Petliura gave the entire ZUNR on April 21, 1920, just as he told the people of Ukraine who, by chance, was lucky enough to live in the UPR and who did not help the "half brothers" of the ZUNR in the war with the Poles. And those Ukrainians who lived in the ZUNR did not have any rights, from what Pilsudski promised the Ukrainians of the UPR.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  8. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 26 March 2016 08: 47
    +5
    the memory of the Poles in the Belarusian people is still alive, an unkind memory!
  9. Dora2014
    Dora2014 26 March 2016 09: 29
    +8
    I felt deep bewilderment and bitterness when President Medvedev apologized to the Poles for Katyn. After all, with this recognition he showed the historical ignorance of the leader - after all, all repressed Poles were punished by the sentences of the current legislation of the USSR! After all, they weren’t shot by drunken soldiers by their own whims ... Poles may now demand compensation for the families of the repressed - this was what President-Lawyer Medvedev thought breaking his hat in front of the Poles ?! The interests of our country are the first thing. And do not be shy about anyone. And all who are dissatisfied - aside: Russia is coming !!!
    1. dvina71
      dvina71 26 March 2016 12: 34
      +1
      Quote: Dora2014
      I experienced deep perplexity and bitterness when President Medvedev apologized to the Poles for Katyn.

      Can I link to this event? As far as I remember, Putin made the speech .. he didn’t justify the hopes of the psheks. There were no erasures ..
      1. Ulan
        Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 52
        +1
        If I remember correctly, Putin did not name the culprit directly. He said that Katyn is a consequence of the actions of the criminal Stalinist regime.
        Putin, as a former KGB officer, always leaves a loophole and a path for retreat.
        That is, if necessary, he can always say that the regime’s crime is that he could not organize the evacuation of captured Poles and left them to the mercy of the Germans.
        But the fool ... Medvedev's check, said that it was the NKVD (USSR) that was guilty.
        Although neither the President, nor the Prime Minister, nor the Parliament HAVE the right to determine the guilt of anyone.
        This violates all democratic norms and rules, according to which in a democratic state there is a separation of powers and the culprit determines only the court verdict.
        Was the court verdict in the Katyn case?
        Was- in Nuremberg, there was no other court.
        Some say that at the final meeting the accusation of Katyn was not read out, but according to the rules and regulations of the Nuremberg Tribunal, all the accusations of the accusing parties were included in the final indictment. If I'm not mistaken, this was said by the Swede and the late Ilyukhin mentioned this.
        Neither the Polish authorities nor the current Russian authorities want a trial. Ilyukhin wanted to initiate it, but died very "in time".
  10. RUSS
    RUSS 26 March 2016 10: 05
    +1
    The author somehow circumvented the battle on the Vistula, more precisely, he says that the Poles won the battle only because Wrangel went on the offensive, I can understand if this battle had not happened and the Bolsheviks simply retreated and went to the rear to fight Wrangel, but they joined the battle and lost, and what does Wrangel have to do with it, which was thousands of kilometers away?
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 26 March 2016 12: 09
      -4
      Quote: RUSS
      The author somehow circumvented the battle on the Vistula, more precisely, he says that the Poles won the battle only because Wrangel went on the offensive, I can understand if this battle had not happened and the Bolsheviks simply retreated and went to the rear to fight Wrangel, but they joined the battle and lost, and what does Wrangel have to do with it, which was thousands of kilometers away?

      The author generally wrote this article omitting all the facts that at least somehow cast a shadow on the then Soviet power.
      There were many similar articles in the magazine Ogonyok for the 20-70s. The author could not strain. Rather, he even compiled his text from there. The speech turns of the ideological department of the CPSU Central Committee are very familiar.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 26 March 2016 12: 54
        +5
        Quote: Cap.Morgan

        The author wrote this article in general, omitting all the facts that cast a shadow on the then Soviet regime.

        It is difficult to talk about the then Soviet Power in general as a monolith. This is an IVS .. more or less power structures have been used up))).
        During the Polish campaign in the military sphere, Trotsky was the main one, and his protégé, Tukhachevsky, led this campaign. Do you want to shed light on them?
        Well, everything is simple with Trotsky .. On the wreckage of the world, we’ll build a new one .. It’s more difficult with Tukhachevsky .. For example, he was responsible for the technical re-equipment of the Red Army ... The Red Army met almost without any artillery, new-type aircraft were still under development, but fast cardboard with no weapons .. during the time of Tukhachevsky built at an accelerated pace, although the Spanish war has already passed and it became clear that tanks are armor and firepower, not speed along the highway, like a car.
        As for the Polish campaign .. When the units of the Red Army in the 20th year approached Warsaw there was partly panic, partly preparing for the solemn meeting. There was no one to defend Warsaw. And then a miracle will happen. Tukhachevsky detaches the most combat-ready units from the rear and, with at least bk. Food and forage, makes a round maneuver .. In winter, on a snow porridge. I want to ask - why?
        At the same time, Pilsudski. Collects the remains of Polish units. Performs a lightning fast and very competent maneuver. (In the Russian Imperial Army, he did not notice such talents. Starno, huh?). As a result, parts of the Red Army simply could not resist, they were exhausted by a useless maneuver and simply did not have shells and ammunition for action. Hence so many prisoners.
        And why did Tukhachevsky, who abandoned his units in Poland, hardly suffer for it?
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 26 March 2016 13: 10
          +5
          Pilsudski did not serve in the Russian imperial army
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 26 March 2016 14: 00
            0
            YES .. your truth. He fought against Russia in World War I. I confess))) However, this does not negate the fact that he was no commander.
        2. Roman 11
          Roman 11 26 March 2016 19: 03
          -2
          Quote: dvina71
          And why did Tukhachevsky, who abandoned his units in Poland, hardly suffer for it?

          He carried out the order from above, asked for reinforcements and reserves, but it seemed to be given, but it was like then that Stalin sabotaged the transfer of armies ........ Actually, there was a whole bunch of mishmash, they rushed everything from Lenin and Trotsky, Kamenev was completely absurd approved - the offensive along the 2-divergent strategic directions of Lviv - Warsaw.

          Tukhachevsky’s mistake was that he didn’t find fresh Poles divisions, + reserves ... on the semi-open flank, but in that situation it was almost impossible to establish operational reconnaissance - the troops made a throw from Minsk to Warsaw in 40 days - an unprecedented pace of attack, therefore, everything lagged behind, and instead of regrouping, resting, and concentrating, all demanded acceleration, mobilization, and assault, almost in full swing.

          Quote: dvina71
          And then a miracle will happen. Tukhachevsky detaches the most combat-ready units from the rear and, with at least bk. Food and forage, makes a round maneuver .. In winter, on a snow porridge.

          You are confusing something, the intensity of the operation near Warsaw temporarily fell in mid-August !!
          Tukhachevsky could not detach the units, he, under pressure from Moscow, issued a directive on the continuation of the offensive, with a shift of direction north of the capital, which was justified, because 1) were excessively worn out and almost doubled !!!!our troops, inferior in number, could not take the fortified city head on. 2) The weaker northern wing of the Poles protected the paramount strategic supply along the Vistula, which fed the entire army of the Poles (ammunition, weapons, food, legionnaires of the north, advisers of the Entente and even mercenaries - all this good was delivered by the Entente by sea through Danzig, which we knew from Polish comrades). It was this "Vistula communication" that the commander and cavalry corps of Guy tried to cut off, and he almost carried out the order, reaching the river.

          Quote: dvina71
          At the same time, Pilsudski. Collects the remains of Polish units. Performs a lightning fast and very competent maneuver. (In the Russian Imperial Army, he didn’t notice such talents. Old, right?)

          What is strange ?? Pilsudski is a political motive, the Poles themselves inflated it with a hero ...... He did not exercise any talents or participation in the leadership of operations. All were planned, prepared and executed by the Entente advisers, in particular the very capable French general who did not fall out of the sky but went through the war and knew in detail the battle on the Marne, where the Germans carried out a similar, overwhelming flank maneuver to Paris ... but Tukhachevsky did it for the above reasons.
          1. Ulan
            Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 08
            +1
            Do you know what distinguishes a real commander from a conjuncturist and fanfaron? Compare how Zhukov acted in approximately similar circumstances in Pomerania and Tukhachevsky near Warsaw.
            Zhukov, too, broke away from the rear, had a lot of casualties and personnel and equipment and the fatigue of troops, etc. But he did not go forward ahead again hoping for an uprising of the German proletariat.
            Zhukov stopped, switched to temporary defense, strengthened the flanks, pulled up the rear and supply, replenished the troops with personnel and equipment, repelled a counterattack and went on the offensive again.
            Tukhachevsky continued the offensive no matter what. His only excuse is that he was driven from Moscow to Warsaw. This was the slogan - "through the corpse of Pan Poland, to Berlin, to help the German proletariat and to the world revolution."
            Can you guess who dreamed of a world revolution then? Correctly curator Tukhachevsky - "the demon of the world revolution" Trotsky.
            By the way, Stalin warned that it was necessary to dwell on the "Curzon line", the hopes of Trotsky and Tukhachesky for the uprising of the Polish proletariat are groundless.
            Tukhachevsky also pushed his ideas about the class character of future wars in his lectures at the Academy of the General Staff, for which he was once obstructed by students who recalled his campaign against Warsaw and his hopes of the Polish proletariat.
            If Tukhachevsky was in the 41st head of the Red Army, he probably retreated to the Urals, hoping for an uprising of the German proletariat.
        3. Roman 11
          Roman 11 26 March 2016 19: 04
          0
          Quote: dvina71
          It’s more difficult with Tukhachevsky .. For example, he was responsible for the technical re-equipment of the Red Army ... The Red Army met the war with virtually no artillery, new-type aircraft were still under development, but fast cardboard with no weapons .. at the time of Tukhachevsky it was built at an accelerated pace, although the Spanish war already passed and it became clear - tanks are armor and firepower, and not speed along the highway, like a car.

          Everyone had mistakes !! We are human beings, we cannot but be mistaken; only he who does nothing is not mistaken. He correctly formulated the basic concept - the war turned out to be really a war of engines, airborne forces, tank corps, rocketry, the introduction of radar in air defense, even the transition to small in number (7000-8000) mobile divisions, all of which were in demand in future war, including the reduction and gradual abandonment of cavalry as a type of army. He put forward and supported many prominent military men, scientists, designers such as Trindaffilov, Kalinovsky, Korolev, Grakhovsky, etc., adopted the field charter of 1936, where the principles of deep battle were used as the basis, including the use of tanks, which he copied to himself. The Wehrmacht triumphantly embodied in the war with Poland and France, then in the initial period of the war with us.

          Quote: dvina71
          And why did Tukhachevsky, who abandoned his units in Poland, hardly suffer for it?

          Why quit ?? What are you talking about ?? According to your understanding, during the initial period of the war, the entire Soviet generals should have been destroyed in the cauldrons of the 41st, including Stalin - was he supreme and also responsible, including for such a crushing start to the war ??

          And then he didn't hurt? They put him to the wall for the Polish one, more precisely. for not wanting to take all the blame on himself, which would be overly stupid, because it wasn’t true ..... And then they constantly had skirmishes with the horsemen on this subject, they began to threaten to convene a conference on this issue, especially a fierce duel on this topic was May 1, 1936, after which Stalin’s attitude towards Tukhachevsky began to deteriorate, but not only to him ....... At that time, his suspicion was aggravated for everyone, and for the entire Red Army in particular

          And what did Voroshilov do from 1937 to 1940 ?? Before the victory over the Finns, after which it was removed ??
          1. Ulan
            Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 21
            +1
            Voroshilov in the Great Patriotic War in the summer of 41 organized the first boiler for the Germans near Soltsy. And to whom? "Great" Manstein.
            It was under Voroshilov in the future as his people's commissar of defense that the Red Army began to mechanize at a rapid pace. And that is a fact.
            There are a lot of statements by Voroshilov that the future war will be a war of motors; he never preferred cavalry to the detriment of mechanized troops. It is a myth.
            In general, around the names of Budyonny and Voroshilov there are many myths and quite unflattering for them.
            For example, it was Budyonny, being the commander of the southwestern direction, who made the correct conclusion that it was impossible to keep Kiev and suggested that troops be transported beyond the Dnieper and surrender Kiev.
            Stalin summoned Khrushchev and Kirponos along the HF and asked for their opinion. The brave Nikita, who was a member of the military council of the front, reported that they would not surrender Kiev and that the situation did not cause concern.
            Stalin, having checked the balance of forces and means, believed Khrushchev and Kirponos, and removed Budyonny.
            Later, Zhukov in his memoirs attributed this episode to himself, that he allegedly offered Stalin to surrender Kiev, and for this he was removed from his post as Chief of General. headquarters.
            But according to the journal of visits to Stalin’s office in the Kremlin, Zhukov wasn’t in the Kremlin this and previous days and he didn’t meet with Stalin and he was removed for another reason, which is as the beginning, Gen. the headquarters was directly responsible for the failures of the summer of the 41st year.
      2. avt
        avt 26 March 2016 14: 56
        +2
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        There were many similar articles in the magazine Ogonyok for the 20-70s.

        Not bad reading, however, until the time of Krotich's ascent to the chair. Of course, there was a lot of husk, but it cannot be compared with the amount of advertising in the current ones, again at least how, but they were engaged in cultural education, laying out color reproductions of the great masters of artistic writing, and not advertising for Swiss watches and underwear. And if they wrote serious ones with the continuation of the article, then throwing away the ideological background, you can make sure that the authors did not really work with documents like the EBN and other mlechenosvanidze sucking inferences from the finger. Here, the non-acidic work of the American mafia with the almost surname historiography of the clans has cut into my memory. Moreover, I personally came across this work long before the "Godfather" of Mario Piezo, and already reading it and watching the film, I really saw what character he took fragments of into the scenes describing events. a lot of things.
      3. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 26 March 2016 15: 54
        -1
        The author wrote this article in general, omitting all the facts that cast a shadow on the then Soviet regime.

        Well, yes, this is about the "selective" memory of the Poles.
        Any manipulators of history, even Russian, even Polish, use the same methods. Yes, we and the Poles competed for one living space and at some point the Poles could prevail in this struggle, remember the troubled times, and even earlier the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. But we won, because the pride of the Poles is wounded. But do not hang all the dogs only on the Poles. Did they have concentration camps? Yes. Was Katyn - obviously. Politicians of that time were not shy about their means and neither of them were white and fluffy. This is a story; it cannot be liked or disliked; it simply was.
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 24
          +1
          Even not in the Time of Troubles and later under Alexei Mikhailovich, the balance of forces was even greater in the direction of Poland. After all, Aleksey Mikhailovich did not immediately accept the request of Bogdan Khmelnitsky to take "under his arm", realizing that a war with a strong Poland would immediately follow, with unpredictable consequences.
      4. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 26 March 2016 15: 54
        -1
        The author wrote this article in general, omitting all the facts that cast a shadow on the then Soviet regime.

        Well, yes, this is about the "selective" memory of the Poles.
        Any manipulators of history, even Russian, even Polish, use the same methods. Yes, we and the Poles competed for one living space and at some point the Poles could prevail in this struggle, remember the troubled times, and even earlier the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. But we won, because the pride of the Poles is wounded. But do not hang all the dogs only on the Poles. Did they have concentration camps? Yes. Was Katyn - obviously. Politicians of that time were not shy about their means and neither of them were white and fluffy. This is a story; it cannot be liked or disliked; it simply was.
      5. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 26 March 2016 20: 42
        0
        It looks like "Ogonyok" you just haven't read it ...
      6. Ulan
        Ulan 29 November 2016 19: 54
        +1
        That is, you have nothing to argue? Well, one cannot seriously consider this as a demonstrative objection - "The speech patterns of the ideological department of the Central Committee of the CPSU are very familiar."
        Leave such "objections" for grandmothers on the benches at the entrance of your house.
  11. Alex
    Alex 26 March 2016 13: 20
    +4
    They beat him for the slightest violation of the camp order, and since the camp command regulations were not announced anywhere, they beat and beat him under any pretext of an alleged violation of order and without any pretext ...
    Everything is like in the zone: the "law" seems to exist, but it is not written and is unknown.
  12. Kenneth
    Kenneth 26 March 2016 15: 32
    +2
    Nevertheless, one cannot fail to admit that the reason for the defeat was nevertheless the stupid leadership of Tukhachevsky, who seemed to be sure that the enemy had no will of his own.
    1. avt
      avt 26 March 2016 15: 45
      +2
      Quote: Kenneth
      Nevertheless, one cannot fail to admit that the reason for the defeat was nevertheless the stupid leadership of Tukhachevsky, who seemed to be sure that the enemy had no will of his own.

      Well, command the front and seem to be for four weeks, according to the memoirs of the marshal of all times and peoples, LOSE FROM THE VIEW OF THE WHOLE army of Poles opposing him! This is what a talent commander must have! Not every commander is given a stupid way not to organize front-line intelligence, but to be sure that someday, somewhere, we will find and destroy them! And to blame .... Stalin! wassat And not as a front commander, but a member of the military council. He was a bastard resting in battles in the Hungarian direction and, at the behest of pike, at the will of Tukhachev, did not immediately appear with the whole army at the disposal of the future marshal. Moreover, what an insidious tyrant this Stalin - caught up with Tukhochevsky to the state of a marshal, deputy commissar for armaments and only then repressed, never" . wassat Well, as it is, a bloody tyrant, a friend of the horse marshal Voroshilov. But the question - Zhukov, Rokosovsky were cavalrymen in the first specialty, and even the first began as a platoon in suppressing the Tambov rebellion at Tukhachevsky. They are also horse marshals wassat laughing
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 26 March 2016 15: 47
      +4
      Quote: Kenneth
      Nevertheless, one cannot fail to admit that the reason for the defeat was nevertheless the stupid leadership of Tukhachevsky, who seemed to be sure that the enemy had no will of his own.

      Tukhachevsky in his printed works laid the blame for the loss of the Warsaw battle on the "stupid actions of the 4th Army of the Red Army" and the "luck" of the Poles.


      The author of the Campaign for the Vistula explains this "luck" as "monstrous in its inconsistency", a situation created due to the dispersal of forces of the 4th army on the Wloclawsk-Plock section and the setting up of a "shapeless half-block" in the area of ​​Ratsionzh-Drobin, which, according to the author, the fault of the Commando 4.

      However ... the front itself pointed to the insecurity of the right flank of the 4th army and gave 54 divisions from its reserve for it, ordering it to be sent to the Danzig corridor and, as Command 4 did not do this, and on August 15 turned it, on the contrary, to east, together with 2 brigades of the 18th division to assist the 15th army even before receiving the front directive on August 16th. We do not remove from the Commander 4 all his mistakes in managing this attack on Plonsk, but we cannot agree with the arguments of the author of the Campaign for the Vistula, that our operation against the 5th Polish army is explained only by these actions of the Commander. The delineated state of this army, far from “power”, then the “shapeless half-barrow” of Commando 4 was actually already expressed on August 15 in 1,5 infantry divisions, that is, almost 50% of its infantry. He would have been even smaller if Commander 4 complied with the directive of the front and sent 54 divisions to the Danzig corridor. We can say one thing that the good genius of the 5th Army of the White Poles was by no means the Commander 4, but all the reasons that prompted the front to give the directive on August 17, that “deep strategy” for which we had neither the strength nor the time, but also material means of communication to control the methods we have adopted.
      - Shaposhnikov “On the Vistula. To the history of the campaign of 1920 ”1924 p. 168

      The main reasons for the defeat - the separation of the army from the main forces of the front, the lack of communications, ammunition, the remoteness of the rear, the accumulated fatigue from continuous heavy fighting in the encirclement, all this forced the 4th army to intern in East Prussia. Only 6 regiments from the 12th Infantry Division with the remnants of the army headquarters were able to break into the operational space in the Augustow area.

      And what does Wrangel have to do with it ???
      1. Cartalon
        Cartalon 26 March 2016 17: 52
        +1
        The reason for the failure was the delay in pulling up the 12th Army and the 1st first cavalry from the south front, and for me the attack on Warsaw was just a mistake and could not end in anything good because of the overstrain of the troops and the spread of communications, and so on
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 28
          0
          That's right. I already wrote above how I acted in a similar situation for Zhukov in Pomerania.
      2. Roman 11
        Roman 11 26 March 2016 19: 33
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        We can say one thing that the good genius of the 5th Army of the White Poles was by no means the Commander 4

        And who was Commander 4? Sergeyev seemed to be ill at that moment ...... So I.O. could trite not to understand the situation! You can understand the despair of Tukhachevsky, his accusations of direct perpetrators, but for some reason other reasons are presented, of a strategic nature. For example, a delay in armies from the South-West front and occasional sabotage of Stalin also had a place to be - and how would it really be if the armies had appeared in Warsaw ??
        1. Ulan
          Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 32
          0
          The sabotage of Stalin has not been proved by anyone. It is not so simple to withdraw an entire army from heavy fighting and transport it hundreds of kilometers away, and it takes time and effort and money to close the gap that was supposed to form after the cavalry army left the front.
          Nobody interfered with Tukhachevsky, stopping the offensive, moving on to temporary defense, pulling up the rear, securing the flanks and waiting for Budyonny.
          There was the only person who could order Tukhachevsky to continue the offensive - Trotsky.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  13. iouris
    iouris 26 March 2016 17: 50
    +1
    Thanks to the author.
    France provided substantial assistance to the Polish army. The defeat of the red forces was planned by the French generals.
    On the other hand. One gets the impression that Trotsky organized a campaign against Warsaw as part of his decossackization program. A significant part of the Red troops consisted of those who did not leave the Crimea, believed the word given by Frunze. The atrocities of the Poles, if desired, can be easily explained by the fact that there was a conspiracy against these people. It is not difficult to come to this conclusion when reading Babel ("Cavalry").
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 26 March 2016 22: 39
      -1
      And where does Trotsky? Lenin demanded to drive troops to Warsaw and no one seemed to mind.
      1. iouris
        iouris 27 March 2016 00: 55
        +1
        Lenin is a publicist. Trotsky is the People’s Commissar of War and his creations Tukhachevsky.
      2. Captain nemo
        Captain nemo 27 March 2016 11: 47
        +1
        Quote: Cartalon
        And where does Trotsky? Lenin demanded to drive troops to Warsaw and no one seemed to mind.

        Stalin objected to the campaign against Warsaw when he was in Galicia, substantiating his objection with the fact that if the people of Poland want to go along the communist path, then they themselves must throw off their rulers.
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 27 March 2016 14: 46
          0
          Give a reference to the source, I read that Stalin was for the offensive
          1. Ulan
            Ulan 29 November 2016 20: 33
            0
            For the offensive, but only to the Curzon line.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  14. AllXVahhaB
    AllXVahhaB 26 March 2016 20: 43
    0
    Here is the scenario for making a film with DiCaprio as Lenin!
  15. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 26 March 2016 21: 52
    0
    The lessons of history must always be remembered, constantly studied! Poles respect only the strong, you need to proceed from this position. Therefore, the "enclave" must be stronger than the entire Polish army, and the guys serve there worthy and the second time on the outskirts of Warsaw will not stop!
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