Russia and India returned to the dialogue on the development of the newest fighter

Moscow and New Delhi have resumed the negotiation process as part of the joint development of the 5 fighter generation (FGFA), reports RIA News message "The Times of India".

“A high-ranking Russian delegation arrived in Delhi to negotiate,” the newspaper reported on Thursday. “The Russian delegation is here, and price negotiations began yesterday.”

"Russia made a new proposal from India for the supply of T-50 fighter jets as part of a joint program to develop fifth-generation fighter jets," the newspaper writes. “India will pay 3,7 a billion dollars instead of 6 billion for technological development and three prototypes of the T-50 fighter.”

Last July, the Minister of Defense of India, Parrikar, said that the Indian side had invested $ 2130 million in the aircraft development program. The preliminary stage of the project, he said, “was completed in June of the 2013 year, and the next stage of development will begin design work.

The publication reminds that "according to the draft contract for the ROC, the delivery of fifth-generation fighter jets to the Indian Air Force should begin in 94 a month after the document is signed."

Comments

[izya top]

I don't like selling technology it would be better, of course, finished products

[cniza]

Quote: iza top

I don't like selling technology it would be better, of course, finished products

It will be easier for us in cooperation, I think we will not give up high technology.

[izya top]

Quote: cniza

I think we will not give high technology.

in vain you think so. on brahmos even the production technology of engines was given

[Temples]

Hindus pay.
They are free to buy what they want.
And our military is free to sell something that does not entail a weakening of its defense capability.
More trust in our military comrades!

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Temples

More trust in our military comrades!

It is not the military who trade. But the sale of technologies and licenses (permits) for production is not practiced, in practice, even by "Western" arms exporters.

[alexmach]

That is precisely why India is buying Russian weapons.

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Temples

More trust in our military comrades!

It is not the military who trade. But the sale of technologies and licenses (permits) for production is not practiced, in practice, even by "Western" arms exporters.

[seregatara1969]

or they are no longer so high

[Dam]

Hindus spin like something in an ice hole. Now to us then to the French, then to the mattresses. Some sort of Asian bazaar was arranged.

[gjv]

Quote: Damm

Now to us then to

It will not be enough. More Austria, Great Britain, Israel, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Czech Republic, South Africa, Republic of Korea, Brazil, Switzerland.

Quote: Damm

spin like

how lice grabbed a scallop and twirl them everywhere

[oldseaman1957]

Quote: izya top

I don't like selling technology

- India is not China, even theoretically it does not threaten us. Of course, it is better to sell products, but if proud Indians want technology, then you can share it. Of course, thinking well in advance.

[vovanpain]

PAK FA has not yet received a single copy in the Russian Aerospace Forces, but is already trading.

[Kasym]

This is still a slightly different plane, not the T-50. Engines and other high-tech components and armament of the aircraft will still be Russian. Electronics, the assembly is most likely Indian. 3,7 billion for assembly technology and 3 experimental aircraft for the development of its T-50 is a good amount.
As I remember now about the ISS. "They (west) spent 12 billion on an orbital station, but they didn't even make a wooden model. We would have been given 10% of this amount, we would have sent the finished station into orbit" - something like that.
Well, they will receive this assembly technology, etc., but what will they do without components from the Russian Federation !? So, in my opinion, the "hook" can be so hooked that "will not break" - with a competent approach, you get a gold mine.

[Dewa1s]

Hindus pay for development - why not?

[kodxnumx]

Quote: iza top

I don't like selling technology it would be better, of course, finished products

Most likely, insensitive technologies will be transferred, there are no fools in such difficult and dangerous temporary technologies to give for these pieces of paper! Although, of course, the Hindus are normal guys, but there is a chapel, as they say!

[Kyrgyz]

Quote: iza top

I don't like selling technology it would be better, of course, finished products

But the client does not want to pay for products, he is ready to pay only for technologies, such are the realities, they will not buy a large amount without technologies, no one

[Bacha]

It’s called found sponsors for the development of the project, also a matter.

[aleks 62 next]

..... It’s called found sponsors for the development of the project, the same thing ....


..... Only sponsors .... Togo .... It’s too tricky .. e .... They want to save on R&D ..... Freebies want .....

[blizart]

Where are you going to FIG - from a submarine then.

[Mercenary]

You need to be careful with these dancing soldiers, otherwise the mattress covers will beckon them with a banana, they will again rush to buy weapons from NATO.
If we had a runaway capitalism, then we can advise to dissolve these "allies" into grandmothers and smile further, like (Well, we didn't shmogl)

[Andrey Yuryevich]

the mysterious Hindu soul ... you’ll understand them ... sometimes Vasya, then not Vasya ... huge, rich, impoverished, advanced in high technology and half in the Stone Age ... and not a friend or an enemy ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

huge, rich, impoverished, advanced in high technology and half in the stone age.

Given the success with which they constantly break our Migi and Dryers, I see no reason for them to sell the T 50. They will break it in FIG and there will be anti-advertising to us.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Given the success with which they constantly break our Migi and Dryers, I see no reason for them to sell the T 50. They will break it in FIG and there will be anti-advertising to us.

Yes ... they have such a chip, in any incomprehensible situation, catapult!

[Simon]

Given the success with which they constantly break our Migi and Dryers, I see no reason for them to sell the T 50. They will break it in FIG and there will be anti-advertising to us
So, let them smash, smash, buy again. The more they smash, the more they buy, and the money will go to us and the military-industrial complex will work, the designers will develop a new plane for that money. Like this!

[NEXUS]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

.and neither friend nor foe ...

Remind me, and when it was India turning back to Russia ...

[Aleksandr1959]

Remind me, and when it was India turning back to Russia ...

Andrei, it’s not that she turned demonstratively. But ... India took very good advantage of the situation in Russia in the 90s. When, for the survival of the military-industrial complex, modern military equipment was sold to them very cheaply. Apparently, the Indians lost the sense of time, decided that nothing had changed.
As for technology ... the question is, will they be able to repeat these technologies? After all, even with licensed production, they have problems.
Yes, and with the operation too

Defense News writes that independent auditors of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) agency presented a report to the Indian Parliament on December 18 stating that Russian Su-30MKI fighters, which are armed with the Indian Air Force, suffer from technical malfunctions and are not in a state of alert more than 55-60% of cars with a minimum rate of 75%.

The operational readiness of the Su – 30MKI is low due to a large number of malfunctioning aircraft, low level of service and low raid. Of the 210 fighters in service with the Indian Air Force, 115–126 aircraft are currently in non-flying condition, according to auditors.

https://news.dirty.ru/v-indii-zaiavili-o-neispravnostiakh-rossiiskikh-su-30mki-9

57769 /

[NEXUS]

Quote: Alexander1959

Andrei, it’s not that she turned demonstratively. But ... India took very good advantage of the situation in Russia in the 90s.

In the 90s, Sasha, the Indians pulled out our tank building from, excuse me, a full ass and fighter aircraft too ... it’s clear that it’s not without profit for itself ... But if it weren’t for the orders for our T-90, which it offered Potkin Vladimir Ivanovich to them, for example, where would our Armata be now? The same thing can be said about fighter aircraft and the navy.

[Aleksandr1959]

... it’s clear that it’s not without benefit for itself.

Andrey, that's just the sense of time they lost ...
An example not relevant to the topic of this article. In the late 80s, there was a man-made "crisis" of detergents (soap, detergent powder) in the USSR. Under the guise of washing powder, our valiant "brothers" - the Hindus, supplied this, sometimes outright falsification, such as a mixture of chalk and something.
Yes, then import orders helped our defense industry survive. But ... not only India, China bought. eg. ... times have changed. And the Indians are trying to lead by analogy to the 90s.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Alexander1959

But ... not only India, China bought

China began shopping much later than the Indians.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

[quote = NEXUS] Remind me, and when did India turn its back on Russia ...
we turn on the attention: it’s written not backwards, but ... probably sideways ... and they look there and here.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

we turn on the attention: it’s written not backwards, but ... probably sideways ... and they look there and here.

And this is the market, and everyone is trying to gain the most favorable conditions for themselves. We do the same.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Alexander1959

they have problems with licensed production.

There, they also complained that the Sukhoi service was not working efficiently. Delivery of engines and spare parts.

[Aleksandr1959]

There, they also complained that the Sukhoi service was not working efficiently. Delivery of engines and spare parts.

As far as I remember, there was a discrepancy in the payment of Russian service specialists. Well..plus excuse to justify the handshakes of Indian experts.

[Nitarius]

technology is definitely not worth selling!
The question is what in return and what technologies are they ready to sell to us? here only we give them to you!

[ava09]

Quote: Bacha

It’s called found sponsors for the development of the project, also a matter.

Whores are looking for "sponsors". Such cases must find funding in Russia. In the meantime, we are "sponsoring" the agony of capitalism, well, or our own, time will tell ...

[Tusv]

"India will pay $ 3,7 billion instead of $ 6 billion for technological developments and three prototypes of the T-50 fighter."

I hope a file for three prototypes as a gift? Well, it’s necessary to expand the cockpit for the co-pilot

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Tusv

Well, it’s necessary to expand the cockpit for the co-pilot

What for?

[Tusv]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

What for?

According to TK, the Indian prototype should be double. Do not do without a file

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Tusv

Do not do without a file

It's clear with the file. I ask, why the plane from?

[Tusv]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

It's clear with the file. I ask, why the plane from?

Well, for three and seven lard, something needs to be delivered, and then let them think for themselves. What for?

[Tjeck]

So the project seems to be a joint one, so let the Indian minds and puzzle over how to stick the second pilot - they need this, do not we? After all, they were not just invited to stare at the cooperation ..

[Yura]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

What for?

They have it this way, all the time and everywhere one should be the boss, and the second and everyone else will dance in front of him (there they come from the accident).

[Humpty]

Quote: Nitarius

technology is definitely not worth selling!
The question is what in return and what technologies are they ready to sell to us? here only we give them to you!

Nothing mysterious; all over the world in everyday life, Indians and Chinese are famous primarily for their greed.

[Rurikovich]

Che, these Indians also do not know what they want. Then let's develop, then we’ll better buy French, then again ... That principle is not to put eggs in one basket. Okay in the domestic market for the development of competition. But you are picking up different weapons from different countries and in the event of any conflict with such hemorrhoids in terms of repair and equipping with spare parts and maintenance, you will come across that you yourself will wonder why the tanks don't shoot, the planes don't fly, the ships don't go. In short, in terms of logic and logistics, solid Papandos ...
If the mysterious eastern soul is like that, and then where are the brains?
Although I worry about them? To each his own ...

[Tjeck]

To begin with, at least they brought the T-50 to mind, and then from the second half of the 15th year there was complete silence. But joint development with India is the most optimal option for me, in this situation it’s quite dangerous to pull a project of tens of billions of yeah alone, the second option is to negotiate with China, but joking with the Chinese is more expensive - stamping 500 pieces for yourself and even sales markets overflow.

[Mikhail Krapivin]

To the garden of India. Everything is too easy for her, ours, for relatively little money, are ready to please her in every possible way, while the Indians feel like maharajas from the Dobritan era. They need to be popularly explained that they are nobody, they cannot be called, they have no weapons and never will be. And if you want to buy the best and the most modern - please, but at our price and on our terms. Do not want to - buy Rafali, only the French will not give a big discount and will not help with production.

[Winnie76]

Nifiga yourself and no way to call? And if the cashier says to you in Auchan that you are nobody and there’s no way to call you ... Your further actions

[voyaka uh]

The T-50 is critical to Russia's defenses.

After a dozen years, the 4th generation will begin to leave - forever.
As now they don’t fly on the once-first-class MiG-21 or F-4, so
soon no one will fly on a Su-30 or F-15.

And in the current difficult economic situation of Russia, she (financially)
unable to master the large-scale production of the T-50.
Two or three dozen T-50s in the Air Force will not do the weather - they need hundreds.

Therefore, the fate of the project as a whole depends on the success of the agreement with India.

[Tusv]

Quote: voyaka uh

soon no one will fly on a Su-30 or F-15.

Gliders of these birds are very good. A quarter century is still flying.
But American stealth rests on the number 2M

[voyaka uh]

The MiG-21 glider was simply outstanding. It doesn’t look more beautiful.
But the glider does not solve much.

[mvg]

When simple - it's beautiful. Telegraph pole with wings. The crown of creation. )))
The French always had beautiful planes .. And the glider too .. Mirage-F1 was not inferior to the 21st.

[Tusv]

Quote: voyaka uh

The MiG-21 glider was simply outstanding. It doesn’t look more beautiful.
But the glider doesn't solve much

Who argues. Outstanding car. King of the sky of his time.
And what is a good glider. So, nonsense. Thrust-weight ratio, maneuverability, ability to fly over four hours without refueling. And also a speed range from 200 km / h to three max.

[mvg]

Che, right and rests? Forehead? In terms of subtle paint blown away by the wind? :-)
And, like, the Raptor flies> 2500 km / h. And, then, after the Arab-Israeli wars (MiG-25), I think NOBODY flew more than 2500 .. Well, maybe SR-71 ...
These are extreme modes ..
PS: A Su-27/30/35 and Strike Igles with Vipers and Super Hornets will still fly for 30-40 years ...

[Tusv]

Quote: mvg

And, like, the Raptor flies> 2500 km / h.

Maybe, but according to the instructions, the limitation in 2100 due to constructional features

And, then, after the Arab-Israeli wars (MiG-25), I think NOBODY flew over 2500 .. Well, maybe SR-71 ...

And who on my radar over the Baltic region missed at a speed of 3100 in 1988. Neither Arabs, nor Jews and Drozd from 3300 retired?
Threat. Hornet, although the best deck today, will not last 15. Falcons, Eagles and Dryers with Flashes easily

[Falcon]

Quote: Tusv

Maybe, but according to the instructions, the limitation in 2100 due to constructional features

They were surprised. And why is the Su-27 and its modifications better in this regard?

According to the Airplane Flight Manual of the Su-27, the speed> 2M is limited in time to 5min! No time limit only up to 1400 km / h.

I don’t know where you got the data on the Raptor (I didn’t see its RLE), but if 2100 is without time limits, then this is a lot.

Quote: Tusv

Threat. Hornet, although the best deck today, will not last 15. Falcons, Eagles and Dryers with Flashes easily

What hornet did not please? As for the glider’s resource, we only approached it on the Su-35s, while there’s no engine resource yet.

I'm not talking about efficiency, but it will definitely fly no less than a resource!

[Tusv]

Quote: Falcon

What hornet did not please? As for the glider’s resource, we only approached it on the Su-35s, while there’s no engine resource yet.

1. According to the resource of the F-18 glider and engines, you lose Su 27 three times. Purely extreme operation.
2. F-35 will finish and bury the world's best deck

[Falcon]

Quote: Tusv

1. According to the resource of the F-18 glider and engines, you lose Su 27 three times. Purely extreme operation.
2. F-35 will finish and bury the world's best deck

Resource Su-27 / 33 2000ch, the first aircraft gave 1000ch, F-18 6000ch. Only Su-35s reached 6000h.

Landing restrictions also exist, of course.

The engines we have al-31 were originally 300h for the experienced 900ch in the first installments, only then they were brought to 1500ch. Only the Su-35s edition 117s was brought to 4000h.

On F-18 engines 6000ch without removal from the wing.

[Tusv]

Quote: Falcon

On F-18 engines 6000ch without removal from the wing.

As my father-in-law says. Former head of ATB: "You can say whatever you want" - one fig in 300 hours for a bulkhead and a drum for all declared resources

[Falcon]

Quote: Tusv

As my father-in-law says. Former head of ATB: "You can say whatever you want" - one fig in 300 hours for a bulkhead and a drum for all declared resources

Maybe your father-in-law served on the MiG-21? Overhaul "bulkhead" ed 117s 1000h, AL-31F ser. 2 500h ser. 1 (experienced) here yes 150h. P25-300 from instant-21 EMNIP 300h.

They have the condition - they are not removed from the wing. figs / not figs and in terms of resources their engines always decently won. For example, on 777 under 60000h on the wing and nothing.

[Tusv]

Quote: Falcon

Your father-in-law can served on MIG-21?

The head of the aviation technical bvza is a civilian specialty.
And you, as I understand it, served Su 27, F-18 at the same time? Just bring interesting tsiferki. Sprinkle with sky-high facts. For more than 5 years no one flew without a bulkhead. Just won't let

[Falcon]

Quote: Tusv

The head of the aviation technical bvza is a civilian specialty.

Where is it? At the civil airfield?
The part is called the Commander of the ATO, who is under the deputy commander of the regiment for IAS (a post under the rank of EMNIP major - lieutenant colonel)
And the ATO is aviation technical support or a detachment, not an aviation technical base.

Quote: Tusv

And you, as I understand it, served Su 27, F-18 at the same time? Just bring interesting tsiferki. Sprinkle with sky-high facts.

no, i'm more for a moment-xnumx. Well, I'm not going to argue, and to prove something. If not interested, then please.

Quote: Tusv

More than 5 years without a bulkhead, no one flew. Just won't let

Well, no, no, no. Mom will ban?

[Tusv]

Quote: Falcon

Well, no, no, no. Mom forbids?

I think you’ll go over it yourself

[Falcon]

Quote: Tusv

I think you’ll go over it yourself

We are already on you ?

I do not advise then to fly civilian aircraft. They do not dramatically meet your personal safety requirements. Or your father-in-law, I’m xs. The main thing is that they are slightly different from TR ...

[Tusv]

Quote: Falcon

We are already on you

And where did you see such a particle.
And so I flew my first flight on a test plane. Is alive

[Mera joota]

Quote: voyaka uh

Therefore, the fate of the project as a whole depends on the success of the agreement with India.

Ours regularly declare the "successes" of the FGFA (especially before Putin's visit to India), but there is no real progress and most likely there will not be.

[Stas157]

Quote: voyaka uh

The T-50 is critical to Russia's defenses.

Can you explain?

Quote: voyaka uh

After a dozen years, the 4th generation will begin to leave - forever.

I don’t think so! And what in return? There are options? 4th generation, flies for a long time.

Quote: voyaka uh

And in the current difficult economic situation of Russia, she (financially)
unable to master the large-scale production of the T-50.

It all depends on the order. In the 90s, the economic situation was much worse! However, Russia pulled out a new Su-30MK aircraft, and launched the production of hundreds of pieces!

Quote: voyaka uh

Two or three dozen T-50s in the Air Force will not do the weather - they need hundreds.

If there is a large fleet of Su30, Su-35 and Mig-31 aircraft, just a few dozen T-50s will do the weather.

Quote: voyaka uh

Therefore, the fate of the project as a whole depends on the success of the agreement with India.

The project has taken place. The plane is flying. All expectations confirmed. In 2016-2017, it will already enter the troops.

[evil partisan]

The Hindus shorter stood out, stood out ... The main thing with this project is to squeeze everything to the maximum: both money and ideas ...

[Lator kron]

But we don’t need it at all. Selling technologies, all the more advanced, for which I did not understand why do we need this?
What kind of need is this? to sell even the finished T-50 is a crime not to mention the transfer of manufacturing technology ... and even for a ridiculous price.
Relations with India are important, but not so much, are there borders that are fraught with long-term negative consequences, do we need it?

[Dewa1s]

there are boundaries that violate are fraught with long-term negative consequences

Well, from the sofa, these boundaries are much better visible than from the top of the military-industrial complex ...

[Mera joota]

In July last year, Indian Defense Minister Parrikar said that the Indian side had invested $ 2130 million in the aircraft development program.

Someone who is superfluous, the Indians paid no more than 200 million and had to pay 6 yards five years ago, but did not pay because ours didn’t share technologies in violation of the agreements, and there was nothing to show, but what they showed was burned before our eyes. The Hindus have long scored at the FGFA, only the lobbyists from HAL, realizing which bold piece disappears, remind of it. Ours even moved seriously for the price, but it seems that the Indians are not ready to give 220 million dollars for a car which is not even in the iron ...
Against this backdrop, a recent interview with Boeing’s CEO, Dennis Muilenburg in India, has excited many:

Together we developed the F-22 Raptor, and given the possibilities of concluding contracts on a government-government basis, this program is the area where we are interested in investing

The F-22 production line is idle, Boeing doesn’t have much with military orders, and India is a shit for it.

[prorab_ak]

Yes, the fact of HOW much ours have moved in price .... speaks of how "difficult" everything is with the PAK FA ... and then the local "marshals" are shouting about the series, about the BUILDING tests in 2017

[Mountain shooter]

Hindus are the first swallow. Further China will reach. So far, the miraculous judo that they pass as the fifth generation has not impressed anyone in the world. And the T-50 project will gain an elephant foot financial support. IMHO, this is too much. Even the mattress on its Fu-35 gathered a whole kagal of participants. With quite tangible contributions.

[prorab_ak]

China will wait .... as he always did .... the patience of China in anticipation of a favorable situation for them can be an example of strategic wisdom to any rulers ... and ours first of all. As was the case with the S-400 and SU-35 ... they contained the question of gas and squeezed out of us, in fact, advanced military technologies for a penny ... our gentlemen study our rulers !!!

[voyaka uh]

"Further China will stretch" ////

Here, in my opinion, your fundamental misunderstanding of the changes in the world over the past 30 years:
China will not stretch, China will pull.
China is a giant challenging America. He is not the "younger brother of the USSR"
as it was once, but let's call it "godfather", "godfather". He dictates rather than agree
with suggestions. If you hide with him, he will want the whole T-50 and get it with giblets.
And it is still unknown whether it will be allowed to do it for the Russian Air Force or to be exported on behalf of Russia.

[Stas157]

Quote: voyaka uh

China is a giant challenging America. He is not the "younger brother of the USSR"
as it was once, but let's call it "godfather", "godfather". He dictates rather than agree
with suggestions. If you hide with him, he will want the whole T-50 and get it with giblets.
And it is still unknown whether it will be allowed to do it for the Russian Air Force or to be exported on behalf of Russia.

What is the challenge ?? Yes, to China, and a challenge to America! China, on the contrary, is used to sit in the shadow of Russia, Russia, like a battering ram on America, is the only country in the world that dares to confront the United States, and China is modestly, aside, for itself. Yes, the Chinese have thousand-year principles about what you need to wait, do not get involved in a fight and the corpse of your enemy will float along the river!
Where is the hottest place today? In Syria? Where is China there? What position does he advocate? Whom did he defend, and when ??

[16112014nk]

But China was trying to portray something with Syria, it seems like even our former aircraft carrier sent to Syria. And then, quietly, he turned it back. And almost immediately, the yuan became the IMF reserve currency. Strange coincidence. It seems that China has made an offer that he could not refuse.

[Muvka]

I doubt that our transmit some secret technology used in this aircraft. The reason for my doubt is the fact that ours is not just selling the T-50 to India, but it is developing an export version of the aircraft. So it is with rockets.

[midshipman]

Once we started in India to produce the MiG-23 and everything was in order. All types of technology have been transferred and this has strengthened our friendship and community. Good luck to you. We have something to help this country with mutually beneficial solutions. I have the honor.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: midshipman

Once we started in India to produce the MiG-23 and everything was in order. All types of technology were transferred and this strengthened our friendship and commonwealth.

Yuri G., if my memory serves me, then the T-90s were bought by the Indians among the first, and the appearance of these tanks on the border with Pakistan played a positive role.

[triglav]

Hindus are not fools. They perfectly understand who their real partner is. Yes, and cooperation has been established for a long time. They do not seek good from good.

[mvg]

Quote: Mercenary

these dancing soldiers

They dance beautifully ...))))) And HOW they sing ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: mvg

They dance beautifully ...))))) And HOW they sing ...

and the technique is coolly decorated ...

[Thunderbolt]

and not only technology

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: NEXUS

Remind me, and when it was India turning back to Russia ...

remind me where I wrote this? not a friend and not an enemy: it is rather sideways to us ... but somehow this is another question.