Military Review

Several countries are interested in Russian anaerobic engines.

58
Several countries are interested in the possibility of acquiring anaerobic (air independent) power plants in Russia, RIA News the report of the head of the naval shipbuilding department Vladimir Tryapichnikov.




“I can say that there is the attention of some countries on the purchase of this complex,” he said.

According to Tryapichnikov, “the first tests of a Russian-made air-independent power plant showed that it would not be inferior in its characteristics to foreign analogues”.

He noted that "the main advantage of an air-independent energy installation is an increase in the secrecy of a submarine."

The submarine "gets the opportunity to be under water without surfacing to charge batteries for a longer period - up to 2-3 weeks," added Ryapichnikov.

In December, Igor Vilnit, general director of the Rubin Central Clinical Hospital, reported on the completion of ground tests of the anaerobic plant.

“We have completed a full cycle of ground tests, and preparations are underway for sea trials, which are a mandatory step, they will begin in the Baltic Sea 2016,” said Vilnit.
Photos used:
JSC "Admiralty Shipyards"
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  1. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 18 January 2016 12: 04
    +6
    The submarine "gets the opportunity to be under water without surfacing to charge batteries for a longer period - up to 2-3 weeks," added Ryapichnikov.


    Interesting news, to my shame, I did not know that we had a similar installation, and even at the stage of such tests.
    1. Altona
      Altona 18 January 2016 12: 37
      +5
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      Interesting news, to my shame, I did not know that we had a similar installation, and even at the stage of such tests.

      ---------------------
      Many in our forum did not know and spoke disparagingly about our submarine Ladas, they say, we are inferior as submarines ...
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 18 January 2016 12: 42
        +4
        Quote: Altona
        Many in our forum did not know and spoke disparagingly about our submarine Ladas, they say, we are inferior as submarines ...

        about our submarine "Lada", because until now we have only one submarine of this type, and it is still in trial operation. Moreover, no one VNEU on them is going to install
        1. spravochnik
          spravochnik 18 January 2016 12: 48
          +2
          No, every time on the 3rd "Lada" they are going to use such an installation.
        2. opus
          opus 18 January 2016 14: 40
          +7
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          nobody VNEU on them, is not going to install yet

          VNEU will be located in the modular compartment of the boat, which does not require significant alterations and rearrangements of the entire boat as a whole. Just need to embed an additional compartment. And in the Amur class submarines, this possibility of adding a compartment is provided in advance.






          Innovation Research Center "Stirling Technologies"


          Perspective non-nuclear submarine with an anaerobic installation based on the Stirling engine and cryogenic fuel components (liquid methane, liquid oxygen
      2. yuriy55
        yuriy55 18 January 2016 13: 30
        10
        Quote: Altona
        Many on our forum did not know and disparagingly spoke about our underwater "Ladas

        Many in our forum did not hold a machine gun and the text of a military oath ... I know one who does not believe that a vacuum bomb exists ... winked
      3. Vladimir 1964
        Vladimir 1964 18 January 2016 13: 59
        +2
        Quote: Altona
        Many in our forum did not know and spoke disparagingly about our submarine Ladas, they say, we are inferior as submarines ...


        Well no, Eugene, I'm not quite stubborn. laughing Of course, I knew about Lada, but the previous series of Varshavyanka did not cause any complaints from anyone.
        But I have to agree with you, there were a lot of comments on the alleged "quality" of our submarines. hi
    2. spravochnik
      spravochnik 18 January 2016 12: 46
      +5
      Such installations were tested back in the USSR. It’s just that in the 90s, like many other things, all this was somehow lost.
      1. Saratoga833
        Saratoga833 18 January 2016 19: 18
        0
        Quote: spravochnik
        like so much more, all this was somehow lost.

        Yes, not lost, but rejoiced!
    3. Mercenary
      Mercenary 18 January 2016 12: 50
      0
      In Germany and Italy, it has already passed the tests, although the work cycle is limited to two weeks, when ours should be at least 21 days!
      1. AUL
        AUL 18 January 2016 13: 32
        +4
        In Germany and Japan, boats with air-independent power plants have been serially built for a long time. Our installation is still being tested, and only on the ground. Has anyone already shown interest in the purchase? "Announce the entire list, please!" The hen is still in the nest, the egg knows where, and what will come of this venture and when is unknown, but PR is already raging like a hurricane in a pine forest! You have to be more modest, comrades!
        1. Evgeniy667b
          Evgeniy667b 18 January 2016 14: 11
          +2
          Oh, and already got this PR. The sleeve, one boltology is not yet on the fur coat, but it is already the turn of the buyers. There are no analogues everywhere ... but in fact the usual technique !!! and in single copies! Shame, we cannot provide ourselves in full. There will be no one to work at enterprises soon, Gaster will not be studying soon, and Our accelerated children can only be taught to work conscientiously under escort. So, if you sell, then in about 30 years, not earlier.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Nitarius
      Nitarius 18 January 2016 13: 41
      +2
      I assure you this past century and dusting the people of brains!
      There have been SOURCES OF FREE ENERGY for a long time .. and to the people "Vechn.dvigatel" - but in essence, the MACHINES ARE GREAT RESOURCE!

      Actually, my research in this area began with this source, British Intelligence Objectives Sub-Committee, 1946: The Invention of Hans Coler Relating to an Alleged New Source of Power, p. 2 "." It is reported that the device was started by development in 1933, and the technology for generating electricity was known in Germany 6 years before the start of the war. It is reported that in Germany found practical application of this device in submarines providing the latter with the characteristics of the submarine range as in modern nuclear submarines. But, the device, structurally, was much simpler and cheaper than nuclear reactors.
      --------------
      I talked with one grandfather about work, talked about the war, told him that I was interested in the secret weapons of the Third Reich, and grandfather told me an interesting thing. He turned out to be the old man on a mine minesweeper. In 1945, a submarine was seized in Poland at the pier, the guard was from the NKVDshnikov. Their minesweeper was engaged in towing the boat to Leningrad. The convoy was of seven ships! To the questions: what are we going to tow?

      And now for "Andromeda": the tachyonator is a development of the hexagonal tachyonator of Hans Kohler. Differs in increased size and power. And it is not single row. Produced at the Siemens plant, apparently since 1942, in small quantities. Conceptually similar to the Roshchin-Godin platform, but with increased revs and several rows. The boats on which it was installed are identified as pl XVI series. Their displacement matches the data of the British naval intelligence. Tachyonators on boats were used with the Marconi vortex dynamo, but I could not find anything on the network with it. It is believed that it could provide more power generation than conventional electrodynamic generators. The prototype of the Hans Kohler tachyonator in 1934, during tests, developed a power of 60 kilowatts (the same hexagonal scheme) (the mentioned platform showed a power of 7 kilowatts).
      According to the description of the operation of the tachyonator on the boat, the situation is as follows: The engine starts from the starting motor of the engine spinning the rotor to critical revolutions of energy self-sufficiency, when the tachyonator stops consuming electricity for work. At this moment, the electric motor is disconnected from the engine and the electric motor itself is turned off. At the same time, the generator is connected, and the engine starts work on generating electricity, without needing it to ensure its operation. Next, the battery is charged and direct electric power is transmitted to the propeller motors.
      According to the tachioners of Hans Kohler, it is known that after the war not a single engine model was found. The prototype was restored somehow in 1989. There were several design diagrams of the apparatus and only the circuit was restored - which includes six permanent magnets located in a hexagon-shaped plane. Coils generating output power are wound on each of the magnets.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 18 January 2016 14: 28
        -2
        You are looking for answers in devices that may already be destroyed. At the same time, it is much more convenient to understand the principles of operation of these devices and with some fundamental innovations you can create more efficient installations. The fact that nuclear reactors operate on static principles (I don’t feel like it anymore and explain to those who don’t see this at the core) is obvious. At the same time, the dynamic operating principles of the reactor make it possible to use elementary seawater in the reactor as fuel or, in extreme cases, what the Germans used during the Second World War. Unfortunately, no one still thinks that the properties of permanent magnets can be embodied in an electrical device in which the potential of such properties can not only be controlled, but also brought to very high magnetic flux densities. What can one talk about and with whom, even if the very concept of a magnetic field is absurd and stupid, since magnetic power flows are basically a dynamic system and this does not even have to be proved. Moreover, magnetic force flows act as a system in dynamics and in space, and not like in our country they all represent it in a plane or, in extreme cases, in the form of tori. In this case, and not understanding where the main poles are formed and how the vectors are distributed. In general, each person thinking is sure of his innocence and at the same time does not pay attention to the development of their ability to think. But pride and self-confidence more than.
    5. Amurets
      Amurets 18 January 2016 14: 14
      0
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      Interesting news, to my shame, I did not know that we had a similar installation, and even at the stage of such tests.

      Even in tsarist Russia there was a Pochtovy submarine with a single engine, in the 1930s, tests of the M-400 submarine with a single engine were carried out in the Caspian, and after the Second World War a series of babies of the A615 project, nicknamed "lighters" in the fleet, were built. VNEU types: Stirling engine, Walter turbine, Fuel cells and oxygen internal combustion engines according to the A615 project type.
    6. opus
      opus 18 January 2016 14: 31
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      to my shame, I didn’t know that we had a similar attitude,


      Vasiliev V.A., Chernyshov E.A., Romanov I.D., Romanova E.A., Romanov A.D. The history of the development of submarines with non-volatile power plants in Russia and the USSR. // Transactions of NSTU named after R.E. Alekseeva. - 2012. - No. 4.
      since the 50s of the last century in all countries of the world (with the exception of the United States, which prefer to buy rather than build a nuclear submarine), the development of non-volatile power plants (VNEU) has begun, including and in the USSR (German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Soviet / Russian Central Design Bureau Rubin, Indian Naval Materials Research Laboratory, Advanced Lightweight Torpedo, etc.: based on electrochemical generators, a steam turbine of a closed loop installation, an engine with external heat supply, closed-circuit internal combustion engines

      VNEU based on highly metallized fuel
      One of the first to use aluminum as a fuel back in 1924, proposed domestic scientist F.A. Zander. In the 30 years of the XX century M.A. Rudnitsky proposed using a steam turbine power plant on a submarine, in which instead of liquid fuel it was proposed to burn aluminum in gaseous oxygen. A power plant of Ivanov’s design was also proposed.

      Mg + CO2, Al + CrO3 / S / Fe2O3, Li + CrO3, Li + SF6, moreover, the fuel and oxidizing agent can be both in solid and in liquid / gaseous state

      -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

      -----


      Just like the Germans, we ("Lada") have an electrochemical generatorbut with honors : the hydrogen required for the operation of the VNEU will not bother with itself, but will be obtained directly on board in the amount of consumption with reforming existing diesel fuel.However, this requires additional CO2 utilization systems on board the submarine.

      VNEU submarines will be able to change the balance of power between Russia and the United States:
      "Four or six such submarines, - said at the end of 2010 to Vice Admiral Viktor Patrushev - can completely cover such closed (For nuclear submarines) or semi-closed water areas like the Black, Baltic and Caspian Seas. "
      All sorts of James Cookies will stop hanging around in Romania and Ukraine ..
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 18 January 2016 14: 42
        -2
        Everything is much simpler. Why and why did the Germans use the famous liquid metal? What is the main quality of this substance? It remains only to understand the principle of how or by what procedural mechanisms the ionization of the surfaces of the outflow occurs during the movement of matter. Then there is not just an opportunity to make this substance move so that it ionizes, for example, an "induction coil" (of course, not in the form in which we imagine it). Therefore, there is no need to carry out any chemical processes at all. You just need to properly organize the processes of fluid movement. And removing the potential from such a coil is generally easier than ever.
  2. serg1970
    serg1970 18 January 2016 12: 05
    +6
    preparations are underway for sea trials, which are a mandatory stage, they will begin in 2016 in the Baltic Sea ”

    Again, Swedes, Belgians and other Finns will begin to hysterically search for the unspeakable in their waters :)
    1. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 18 January 2016 12: 11
      +4
      Until they drown each other in the Baltic, they will be hysterical ...
      Quote: serg1970
      preparations are underway for sea trials, which are a mandatory stage, they will begin in 2016 in the Baltic Sea ”

      Again, Swedes, Belgians and other Finns will begin to hysterically search for the unspeakable in their waters :)
    2. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 18 January 2016 12: 54
      0
      And do not look. It must be taken for granted. How do you see a Russian boat in the DMB film? And she is!
  3. McLuha-MacLeod
    McLuha-MacLeod 18 January 2016 12: 05
    +5
    No, well, look, there haven’t been any boats yet in the domestic fleet, and these gentlemen are talking about export deliveries ?????
    1. Vladimyrych
      Vladimyrych 18 January 2016 12: 07
      +4
      Does it surprise you? I’m not so much. First, business is dead, and only then not in second place is the native country and native people. Everyone has long been ruled.
    2. DenZ
      DenZ 18 January 2016 12: 08
      10
      They do not argue, but only state the fact that several countries are interested in VNU. No need to invent. I think that these few countries will wait a long time for our Lada to be operational.
      1. Azitral
        Azitral 18 January 2016 12: 40
        +2
        Dead end road. More promising - "styling" + nuclear TVEL. It is clear - non-standard. This combination provides not too high energy, but less bulky than the combination of diesel fuel + diesel + batteries or anaerobic plant + batteries. Not to mention a "full-fledged" PPU reactor for steam with high performance: it is good (and has advantages) for a large ship, but too large for the size of a "Lada". We have a problem in a good "styling", but everything is in order, for example, with weapons-grade plutonium. They will do - or buy or steal - "stirring," and anaerobic EIs will lose perspective.
        A possible alternative is only "supercritical hydrides". But if there are encouraging results, we will not know about it very soon.
        1. VALERIK_097
          VALERIK_097 18 January 2016 13: 00
          +2
          I don’t understand why everyone came up against anaerobic plants?
          Why did you forget about the installation of VAU-6 (Dollezhal's egg)? Charge Akki under water for quiet, autonomy will be limited only by the availability of food on board.
          This is my comment yesterday.
          The principle of operation of the PPU is completely different than on any other nuclear submarine. And the PPU itself for some reason fits in size in my kitchen in a kopeck piece)))
        2. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 18 January 2016 14: 00
          +1
          Quote: Azitral
          More promising - "stirling" + nuclear TVEL

          Sitrling has a systemic problem - the membrane through which power is removed. The variable volume cannot be isolated from the atmosphere so that the process becomes truly energetically beneficial. While the engine is on the table and cheerfully pulls the weight - everything is chocolate. It is worth trying to remove serious power from the membrane, and it cracks, barely working.
          By the way, when it is possible to solve the problem of a durable and energy-intensive (that is, sufficiently large) membrane, the transport and logistics ambush of Russia - trillion expenses on Siberian roads will be solved in parallel. Rigid airships can be launched, and it’s very cheap to carry loads on them.
          Hurry ... but so far I have not heard anything about such a decision.
    3. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 18 January 2016 12: 14
      -10 qualifying.
      This is an example of our space industry, they give money and at the exit zilch .. We broke. And here the opportunity to cut a new loot ...
      Quote: McLooka-MacLeod
      No, well, look, there haven’t been any boats yet in the domestic fleet, and these gentlemen are talking about export deliveries ?????
      1. Azitral
        Azitral 18 January 2016 16: 04
        +1
        Yours? Your space industry? In countries with a blue flag, there is no such industry. Not in one.
    4. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 18 January 2016 12: 22
      +2
      Quote: McLooka-MacLeod
      No, well, look, there haven’t been any boats yet in the domestic fleet, and these gentlemen are talking about export deliveries ?????

      So there is the most money in export, and for the Russian army it is less profitable to build military products.
    5. Gormenghast
      Gormenghast 18 January 2016 12: 30
      0
      It's dangerous Ukrainian trend. Uk-ry too, instead of delivery "Stronghold"in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they sold it to Thailand. True, the contract was not fulfilled. laughing
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 18 January 2016 12: 44
        +2
        In general, it's all a pitchfork on the water. To be interested does not mean discussing a financial issue. Here in what they are not interested in.
    6. Blondy
      Blondy 18 January 2016 12: 41
      +4
      Indeed, this PR was sick of it. Well, imagine - I wander, I’m all blonde, I’m not alone in the market, but along with some, I saw panties with mugs in one of the tents, turned them around, put them back in the ass, and went on. And the owner of this tent according to local media then announces that as many as four (well, maybe three) blondes showed interest in panties with mugs of their production.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 18 January 2016 12: 48
        0
        Quote: Blondy
        indeed, this PR was sick of it.

        Maybe private investors are trying to attract ...
        http://ckb-rubin.ru/akcioneram_i_investoram/investoram/
        1. pts-m
          pts-m 18 January 2016 12: 58
          0
          Is “honest” possible?
  4. fox21h
    fox21h 18 January 2016 12: 06
    +2
    I think our fleet is even more interested in them.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 18 January 2016 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: fox21h
      our fleet is even more interested in them

      Does anyone dispute this? Many are interested in this. One trifle, who wants to pay the same amount? Since childhood, I remember that you can want a lot, but no one will just give it. You stand, look at the cake for 2,20 rubles, and no one expresses a desire to take it from the window and give it to you. Only for money. A good product, a product, costs good money. Does the fleet look like me, petty?
    2. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 18 January 2016 14: 34
      0
      This is clearly Igorek Zmeyukin (VILNIT) composes pearls. So he wants to show himself a big businessman.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  5. Anton Gavrilov
    Anton Gavrilov 18 January 2016 12: 07
    +7
    That's when it tests normally in the experimental compartment (which they will do in Vyborg), when they bring it to mind, and when it will be even on the 1 ship, then it will be possible to seriously think about export. And now we ourselves are like air need it.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 18 January 2016 12: 40
      +1
      Quote: Anton Gavrilov
      That's when it tests normally in the experimental compartment (which they will do in Vyborg), when they bring it to mind, and when it will be even on the 1 ship, then it will be possible to seriously think about export. And now we ourselves are like air need it.

      That's right ... but once two Frets were laid, the tests are coming to an end. It is interesting whether our anaerobic SU will go to the performance characteristics of German installations ...
      1. Anton Gavrilov
        Anton Gavrilov 18 January 2016 12: 43
        0
        No, it’s not to be completed, everything is complicated there, there are problems. 2 Lada sho now sculpt on LAO will be without VNEU.
  6. shinobi
    shinobi 18 January 2016 12: 10
    0
    That's great. The reactor is not always delivered, and anaerobes have better noise characteristics than diesel engines. However, turbines are based.
  7. FIREMAN
    FIREMAN 18 January 2016 12: 11
    +1
    Maybe the submariners will correct me, I read somewhere that there were several approaches to solving the problem of increasing the time to ascent to "recharge". The first way: storage of liquid oxygen reserves in cylinders on board, the second is the adsorption of the exhaust gases of the power plant by special absorbers. It is possible that a combination of several methods was used.
  8. Dezinto
    Dezinto 18 January 2016 12: 12
    +5
    A submarine with such an engine is already there! She secretly conducts surveillance off the coast of Sweden! And maybe already aiming at the Swedish parliament! After all, it is not known what to expect from these Russians and their KGB. (We and the Baltic States for some ... really want)

    Sweden - urgent search! a couple more million dollars in water and fear! Russians are near!
    1. Great-grandfather of Zeus
      Great-grandfather of Zeus 18 January 2016 12: 26
      +5
      DEZINTO-you forgot to say that our boat is not hiding in the fjords, but in the mountains, from a height it is better to see!
      1. Dezinto
        Dezinto 18 January 2016 12: 40
        +2
        Shhh! This is still too classified development!

        But the brother of my friend’s matchmaker said that several air submarines had already been sent to an unknown destination. (But only shhh - no one!)

        Speaks there special. specialist. Buryats, the GRU and the FSB. All trained to conduct special. underwater air battle!

        (EVERYTHING is knocking on the door ......
  9. Magic archer
    Magic archer 18 January 2016 12: 12
    +5
    Less talk and more work. Yesterday there was an article about the Japanese boat Soryu, which entered service. And they are being built SERIOUSLY! And we still have not a single boat with VNEU in service and someone is already allegedly interested in our installations?! One grandmother said from the series ....
  10. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 18 January 2016 12: 27
    +1
    “The first tests of a Russian-made air-independent power plant showed that it will not be inferior to its foreign counterparts in its characteristics.”

    Not said by any last? Or twenty years ago?
  11. Red_Hamer
    Red_Hamer 18 January 2016 12: 34
    +2
    Let me guess, the first of these countries is China?
  12. Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 18 January 2016 12: 34
    +3
    We have plans for a grader, boats haven’t passed such tests yet, but we’ll start selling bats-anaerobic plants? Does anyone have a headache, money, even at the cost of national security? As always, we’ll be naked, for the sake of someone stuffed with dough? to us engines for corvettes the whole world rushed to sell when ukroin and the Germans showed us a shish? first-to-yourself, then again-to-yourself, and lastly you can think about selling.
  13. Engineer
    Engineer 18 January 2016 12: 37
    +3
    An interesting movie: in the Navy there is not a single boat with such an installation, and foreigners are already interested.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 18 January 2016 12: 54
      0
      Intelligence is always interested in such matters. Sometimes under the guise of purchasing ... wink
    2. Fat
      Fat 18 January 2016 21: 44
      +1
      "Diamond hand" ... Semyon Semyonich: "And you have the same, only with mother-of-pearl buttons? No? We will look ..."
  14. Rom14
    Rom14 18 January 2016 13: 11
    0
    Quote: spravochnik
    Such installations were tested back in the USSR. It’s just that in the 90s, like many other things, all this was somehow lost.

    It wasn’t taken aback, but it was sold and ruined, Ours will come, there will be a judgment day.! ..
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 18 January 2016 14: 25
      0
      Quote: Merchant
      It is necessary to make this installation normally and not to sell it to anyone but to equip your submarines !!! And then we sell all the advanced secrets and then wonder why we are always in w ... ne! Old technologies are always sold to us !!

      A secret, then a secret when one person knows about it, and then it is no longer a secret. Remember the old anecdote: "Masha! Go to the market, find out when the exercises begin."
  16. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 18 January 2016 13: 28
    +3
    This is a piece of interview ripped out of context by our reporters from RIANovosti. There further there is the fact that the fleet will receive the domestic installation of VNEU by 2022, i.e. after six years.
    Now one experimental installation is being built that they are only experiencing, in normal language this is called experimental development work. In case of their successful completion, a pilot batch of products is built, on which a series of tests and improvements are carried out. Then, according to their results, the design and documentation are adjusted and an experimental industrial batch is produced, when the design is customized to a specific plant with its technological features, and only then serial products. Just about six years old and runs on, this is in case of success, if something goes wrong, the period will increase.
  17. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 18 January 2016 14: 38
    0
    The black hole will be even blacker with this setting good
  18. Zomanus
    Zomanus 18 January 2016 16: 52
    0
    Oh how ...
    The news is very good.
    This means that you can patrol your internal water areas in the manner of strategists.
    He let the boat go to the Black Sea or the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and let it cut the circulation there.
    And in which case you can always go to Turkey or Japan.