Military Review

LEPA diesel submarines surpassed the previous boats, called "black holes"

91
The 4 generation diesel submarines of the 677 “Lada” project surpassed the submarines of the 636 project, which received the nickname “black hole” for their secrecy, reports MIC with reference to the general director of the Admiralty Shipyards Alexander Buzakov.




“Already on the basis of the pilot operation of the St. Petersburg submarine, we can say that Lada surpasses its predecessor of the 636 project, which is called a black hole all over the world,” said Buzakov.

He recalled that "boats of the fourth generation of the Lada project are a further development of the 636 submarines of the project, they are distinguished by a low level of noise due to the new anti-hydrolocation coating, an improved sonar system, as well as new technologies and materials."

“In addition, a significant amount of research and development (R & D) was carried out as part of the 677 project. Introducing new developments in submarines of the 677 project, we are "pulling" the 636 project's submarines to a new level. A good example is non-penetrating lifting mast devices, which were first installed on the first Lada (St. Petersburg), today successfully implemented on all series of the 636 project, ”the general director said.

He added that "currently the boats of the 636 and 677 projects are among the most serious members of their class thanks to powerful rocket armament."

When asked whether the Lada series will be continued, Buzakov replied that "such questions are within the competence of the Ministry of Defense." “Yes, there are such plans, but without a government decree on state defense orders, it’s premature to talk about specific terms for signing the contract,” said the head of the company.
Photos used:
http://bastion-opk.ru/
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  1. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 19: 14
    +7
    Then why did the previous commander speak about the 677 project as follows:

    In February 2012, the media said that the Navy was abandoning the Lada project, according to Vysotsky:

    “... the claimed technical characteristics of the project 677 submarines are not confirmed by the tests of the head submarine“ St. Petersburg ”. “In its current form, Lada, the Russian Navy is not needed. We do not need new “brains” with weapons that would sit on the energy of the Second World War. What for? Who needs this? And her operational properties are the same.
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 30 December 2015 19: 18
      23
      No, well, if I understand correctly, then we don’t need Lada as a diesel engine. But in the version with an anaerobic (like correctly written) power plant - very bully
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 19: 21
        +2
        Quote: Wiruz
        No, well, if I understand correctly, then we don’t need Lada as a diesel engine. But in the version with an anaerobic (like I wrote correctly) power plant - a very

        Why is it not needed without anaerobic? When, even without anaerobic, is it better than Varshavyanka's low noise?
        1. Eugene-Eugene
          Eugene-Eugene 30 December 2015 19: 48
          -8
          As a result of the trial operation of the Saint Petersburg submarine, it can be said that Lada surpasses its predecessor, Project 636, in stealth, which is called the “black hole” all over the world.

          That is, as I understand it, the Lada crew landed on the outskirts of New York, enjoyed a new performance at the Metropolitan Opera, and sailed safely towards their base?
          1. agent rossii
            agent rossii 31 December 2015 02: 51
            12 th
            but who needs your york ... suck there niggas wassat
            1. Eugene-Eugene
              Eugene-Eugene 31 December 2015 08: 23
              -5
              Listen to the blues, then you will not be an evil creature
        2. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 30 December 2015 19: 53
          +5
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          Why is it not needed without anaerobic? When, even without anaerobic, is it better than Varshavyanka's low noise?
          Most likely, because it's all again, beautiful words, but in fact the trial operation of the only Lada was extended for another year
        3. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 30 December 2015 20: 38
          60
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          Why is it not needed without anaerobic? When, even without anaerobic, is it better than Varshavyanka's low noise?

          Without the VNEU, the fleet no longer needs it, because this is already a completed stage of the development of the NPL. Therefore, a series of only 3 units. And then, 2 and 3 buildings will go under the testing of LIAB and new technical solutions.
          About the low noise. It is 6-8 times quieter than pr 877. The one that is called the "black hole" in the Ocean.
          What it means trial operation.
          This means that the boat is equipped with complexes, aggregates and weapons not yet adopted by the Navy. There are as many as 49 in the OBS. So they look how they will prove themselves in the sea, and not on the stand.
          About VNEU. "Crystal-27" does not satisfy the customer in terms of capacity. Experimental power plant produced 60% (according to other sources - 70%) of the nominal at sea. This, too, did not suit the fleet. The capacity of the AB managed to increase the D of diving by 1,5 times - up to 650 miles. But this is not a fountain either!
          Now there is infa that the transport option of VNEU is brought to its design capacity. But they will put it on Kalina. This is essentially a modified and improved version of the Lada. And here a series of 18-20 buildings is expected. But it will be boats of the 5th generation.
          Something like this. Perhaps "the rumors are exaggerated." But there is nothing else yet. Yours faithfully, hi
          1. DarkMatter
            DarkMatter 30 December 2015 20: 42
            +3
            While writing, ahead of fellow
            1. anew
              anew 31 December 2015 14: 31
              0
              LEPA diesel submarines surpassed the previous boats, called "black holes"

              If so, then this is great news. Just to be a duck.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. sandrmur76
            sandrmur76 30 December 2015 21: 10
            0
            A vivid example is non-penetrating lifting and mast devices, which were first installed on the first "Lada"
            If anyone knows why? It seems that resistance to movement will increase. request
          3. agent rossii
            agent rossii 31 December 2015 02: 53
            -2
            you yourself know everything .... or google to help ???? drinks
          4. leon1204id
            leon1204id 31 December 2015 18: 13
            0
            Here is a little about the project 677 and VNEU, there is even a picture, there are not even moving parts there .. request http://новости-россии.ru-an.info/новости/россия-начала-строить-невиданные-доселе
            -submarines/ hi
          5. SSeT
            SSeT 31 December 2015 20: 06
            0
            ATP for info. Pts interesting
        4. DarkMatter
          DarkMatter 30 December 2015 20: 40
          +4
          Because the last century, the Swedes have had VNEU for 20 (!!) years, the Germans, the Japanese, and so on. And we all mess with our "black holes". The boats are great, but we have to go further!
          You don’t fly the legendary IL-2, right? wink
          Of course, the Americans did not know that such a fig was planted with this name for us, that after 30 (THIRD CENTURIES) our fingers would bend, talking about the most lacking analogs in the world of boats, black holes. So maybe it was once, but not now.
          DEPLs of the 4th generation of Project 677 Lada surpassed Project 636 submarines in terms of their characteristics, which received the nickname Black Hole for their stealth.

          This is soooooo, a 4th generation boat is better than a 3rd boat. Suddenly, a direct breakthrough, gentlemen. wassat
          Work better, drive VNEU for sea trials. Shove on Frets, call them Kalina and in a series! angry
        5. sa-ag
          sa-ag 31 December 2015 08: 58
          +3
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          When, even without anaerobic, is it better than Varshavyanka's low noise?

          in three days it will become very noticeable for those who will hunt it or stay at depth forever
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 30 December 2015 19: 35
      +1
      Until 2020, the Russian fleet expects to receive 14 new 4th generation submarines.
    3. Samaritan
      Samaritan 30 December 2015 19: 43
      10
      But Varshavyanka was considered conditionally the most quiet ... So everything is not bad, and given 10 calibers / onyx on Lada it’s just lovely drinks
      and let's not forget that Varshavyanka is the record holder for export, Lada yourself, Varshavyanka for export!
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 19: 53
        +1
        Quote: Samaritan
        So everything’s not bad, and considering 10 calibers / onyx on Lada, it’s just lovely

        For the Russian Navy, Frets will be built without vertical launchers, so Onyx will not.
        1. shans2
          shans2 30 December 2015 20: 16
          0
          what's the connection?) onyxes from the bastions start exactly the same vertically.
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 20: 24
            +3
            Quote: shans2
            what's the connection?) onyxes from the bastions start exactly the same vertically.

            In 533, the Onyx torpedo tube does not fit, only the caliber. Onyx from submarines can only be launched from separate vertical (and maybe tilted if Antei upgrades to Onyx) launchers.
          2. Simon
            Simon 30 December 2015 21: 20
            +2
            Well, what are you arguing friends, the main thing is that the boat worked quieter than the "Black Hole", they check it, they polish it, and there you can put anything you want inside it, even Caliber, even Onyx or something newer and more perfect. Scientific centers and laboratories are probably already working on this.
      2. go21zd45few
        go21zd45few 31 December 2015 19: 48
        +3
        Guys, in the 60s of the last century, I served on a diesel 613 project, even then when I switched to the economy, and even if the boat was diving under hydrology, I couldn’t hear it at all. What can I say about modern boats.
    4. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 30 December 2015 19: 53
      15
      Modern diesel submarines of Russia have a rather specific purpose - such a class of submarines in other countries is generally absent. In addition to coastal and coastal defense, their main purpose is the destruction of the enemy nuclear submarines. And then they have no equal. Even those submarines that were sold to India and which do not have the last 636 project chips (let alone 677) at the last exercises with the Americans conditionally destroyed all the nuclear submarines, while the U.S. Navy remained undetected.
      1. DarkMatter
        DarkMatter 30 December 2015 21: 05
        +2
        Modern diesel submarines of Russia have a rather specific purpose - such a class of submarines in other countries is generally absent

        What? What are you talking about? Submarines can not destroy others? What is it like? That is, ours can now sail on nuclear submarines everywhere and they are invulnerable? fellow
        You at least read about German submarines, they have already fired missiles at anti-submarine helicopters from underwater position, not to mention the other, at least we are far behind torpedoes, we still do not have VNEU. What is it all about? request
        Who is the plus, I do not understand recourse

        During the exercise, an Indian submarine conditionally destroyed the American Los Angeles, yes, but one boat, ONE! Although she was alone, so here everything is 100% destroyed, you can of course say "destroyed all the nuclear submarines", all one wassat
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 30 December 2015 21: 53
          +4
          Gentlemen ..... nothing can replace DIPL on the Baltic and Black Sea theater ... What is the argument? There are no diesel engines in the USA? No! And where should they fight on them? But the Germans, Swedes, Turks (Germans) have ....... Well, about the backlog in torpedo weapons, you too got excited, to put it mildly ... Well, I will tell you a great secret ... we still have boats 60 were oxygen (lighters) For a number of reasons, we didn’t go any further ... here, a separate article should be dedicated
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 31 December 2015 19: 21
            0
            And while protecting the waters of the Northern and Pacific fleets. At the same time they will threaten the northern countries and Japan.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. agent rossii
          agent rossii 31 December 2015 02: 56
          +1
          how many apl have been destroyed wassat
      2. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 30 December 2015 23: 34
        -5
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Even those submarines that were sold to India and which do not have the last 636 project chips (let alone 677) at the last exercises with the Americans conditionally destroyed all the nuclear submarines, while the U.S. Navy remained undetected.

        Somehow tired of these tales ... That Indian drying completely carried out all the Amer stealth, now here are the submarines ...
        1. Simon
          Simon 2 January 2016 16: 54
          0
          "Semyon Semyonich" Indians will not write in vain and never take a weapon that has worn out. If they don't like our Russian, they take French. So I believe in Indians.
    5. Proxima
      Proxima 30 December 2015 20: 01
      15
      I welcome the construction of Project 677 submarines with both hands "for". They are relatively inexpensive. Lada is a clear manifestation of Russia's defense strategy. Its element is coastal water area. Yes, the Lada will be difficult in the ocean, but it will not let anyone go to the naval bases. Pleased with the low noise level thanks to a permanent magnet electric motor, all kinds of vibration isolators. She is also doing well with stealth, thanks to the anti-hydrolocation coating. In a word, it’s inexpensive and gives an adversary in the teeth - "Mom, do not cry!"
    6. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 30 December 2015 21: 26
      +4
      To put it mildly, they did not like Vysotsky in the Navy, for their absurd character and extreme pride. He destroyed, yes, good.
    7. VP
      VP 30 December 2015 21: 33
      +2
      For the Black Sea dizilyuhi will be quite enough
    8. Sergey S.
      Sergey S. 30 December 2015 23: 57
      +3
      Quote: Lt. air force reserve
      In its current form, "Lada" the Russian Navy is not needed. We do not need new “brains” with weapons that would sit on the energy of the Second World War. What for? Who needs this? And her operational properties are the same.

      So changed (improved) TTX.
      And one still does not need to be serious about open chatter on the most important topics.
      Sometimes a lie helps to save the materiel and money of the motherland.
      And let the enemies solve our idiotic rebuses.
    9. komTMG
      komTMG 31 December 2015 23: 07
      +2
      Here I read. And I wonder. People who did not see project 636.3 from the inside and fret. They begin to write everything that comes to mind. There is a Lada (St. Petersburg). Fleet with her (has a close sex life. Like the factory). Rubin does not want to bring to mind. Ruby steps on an old rake. He mastered the money. And by notification you will bring to mind !! Well, on the iron.
      About 636.3 so far there are errors in the drawings. And it is very difficult and nervous to fix it.
      Ruby monolith. Under which all the money went numb and they us .. look.
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 30 December 2015 19: 15
    +6
    “When asked whether the Lada series will continue, Buzakov replied that“ such issues are within the competence of the Ministry of Defense. ”“ Yes, there are such plans, but without a government decree on the state defense order, it’s premature to talk about specific terms for signing the contract. ”

    "Series" is said loudly, one in the composition, two in the construction. Tears.
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 30 December 2015 19: 47
      +7
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Tears

      Tears will come later if the loot that was invested in R&D sinks into oblivion due to the abandonment of the project. Zhenya, drinks !
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 30 December 2015 20: 17
        +2
        Quote: Tersky
        the loot that was invested in R&D will sink into oblivion due to the abandonment of the project.

        Well, if he is not very successful, then to build funds in the construction of boats is also somehow not comme il faut. what Hello Victor. hi drinks
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 30 December 2015 19: 48
      0
      Not even in the composition, but in trial operation - such a special term)
  3. romanru4
    romanru4 30 December 2015 19: 16
    +1
    In one copy. Not a lot, let's face it. The price is probably higher than "Varshavyanka".
  4. Wiruz
    Wiruz 30 December 2015 19: 16
    +1
    Here are just the pace of construction Lad leave much to be desired. Especially considering that the Navy is going to build them, then refuses to build, or is going to again request
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 30 December 2015 19: 18
    +4
    This is the right move! And if Lada gets new "gills" in the form of an aerobic remote control, then the rest will freeze in amazement!
    And yet we are waiting for Kalina!
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 30 December 2015 19: 48
      +1
      Quote: BoA KAA
      This is the right move! And if Lada gets new "gills" in the form of an aerobic remote control, then the rest will freeze in amazement!
      And yet we are waiting for Kalina!

      I think you're right ... most likely the bet will be made on Kalina by our Moscow region. But Lada, or rather its export analogue of Amur, will be pushed for export ...
      But it seems like with an anaerobic installation it seems like some kind of difficulties for now ...
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 30 December 2015 21: 06
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        But it seems like with an anaerobic installation it seems like some kind of difficulties for now ...

        It seems they promised next year. A difficult situation - on the one hand, you can continue to build 636, since the conveyor has been established, on the other hand, after the appearance of VNEU they immediately become obsolete.
    2. avt
      avt 30 December 2015 22: 56
      0
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      ! And if Lada gets new "gills" in the form of an aerobic remote control, then the rest will freeze with amazement!
      And yet we are waiting for Kalina!

      Can Vesta be done immediately following the results of operating Sarov?
    3. agent rossii
      agent rossii 31 December 2015 02: 59
      0
      what anaerobic installation stop
      1. 11 black
        11 black 31 December 2015 18: 09
        +1
        Quote: agent rossii
        what anaerobic stop installation

        Well, that means it’s like nuclear, but not nuclear yes
        But seriously, this is an air-independent power plant that allows the submarine to remain in the submerged position for at least a month, which makes it almost equal to the submarine's autonomy, while its dimensions are small and it can be put on small submarines hi
      2. 11 black
        11 black 31 December 2015 18: 09
        0
        Quote: agent rossii
        what anaerobic stop installation

        Well, that means it’s like nuclear, but not nuclear yes
        But seriously, this is an air-independent power plant that allows the submarine to remain in the submerged position for at least a month, which makes it almost equal to the submarine's autonomy, while its dimensions are small and it can be put on small submarines hi
  7. MIKHALYCH1
    MIKHALYCH1 30 December 2015 19: 22
    +4
    Our designers "got crazy" in earnest that they are doing something! Hungry for the 90s ... Well, God forbid! I hope the sanctions and the crisis will not affect them and will calmly work for the good of Russia! And we will cover them, somehow! hi
  8. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 30 December 2015 19: 23
    +4
    On the basis of the Northern Fleet in Vidyaevo, sailors met an updated ship - the Pskov nuclear submarine.
    Polar shipyards completed the modernization of a unique multi-purpose nuclear
    Project 945A “Condor” boats designed for tracking and guaranteed destruction
    strategic boats and carrier strike groups of a potential enemy.
    In addition, this is the last titanium ship laid in the Soviet Union.
    1. kote119
      kote119 30 December 2015 19: 36
      +1
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      intended for tracking and guaranteed destruction
      strategic boats and carrier strike groups

      this is how it is guaranteed can destroy AUG?
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 19: 42
        -1
        Quote: kote119
        this is how it is guaranteed can destroy AUG?

        This titanium submarine is rumored to plunge to a depth of 800 meters (or maybe deeper).
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 30 December 2015 19: 49
          -6
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          This titanium submarine is rumored to plunge to a depth of 800 meters (or maybe deeper).
          The boat can and can, only the crew will not withstand such pressure)
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 19: 56
            +2
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            The boat can and can, only the crew will not withstand such pressure)

            What pressure can not withstand? Submarine K-278 Komsomolets (project 685 Fin) had a working depth of 1000 meters, and a maximum depth of 1250 meters, and the crew withstood.
          2. kote119
            kote119 30 December 2015 19: 58
            11
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            This is a titanium submarine rumored to be able to dive to a depth of 800 meters (or maybe deeper). A boat can and can, only the crew can not withstand such pressure)

            in a submarine, pressure at any depth is almost equal to atmospheric smile
          3. the most important
            the most important 30 December 2015 22: 21
            +2
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            The boat can and can, only the crew will not withstand such pressure)

            And the crew that, hands holds the hull of the boat at high pressure ????
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 30 December 2015 20: 26
          +3
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          This is a titanium submarine

          ?belay
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          According to rumors, it can plunge to a depth of 800 meters (or maybe deeper).

          According to rumors, it is the same as titanium, in fact, the working depth of immersion is 520 m, limit 600 m.
          1. Lt. Air Force stock
            Lt. Air Force stock 30 December 2015 20: 30
            0
            Quote: Tersky
            According to rumors, it is the same as titanium, in fact, the working depth of immersion is 520 m, limit 600 m.

            The titanium hull should be definitely stronger than the steel one on Shchuky-B, is it worth building titanium submarines that are more expensive than submarines with a steel hull, but have the same immersion depth?
            1. aleks26
              aleks26 31 December 2015 11: 19
              0
              Quote: Lt. air force reserve
              Does it make sense to build titanium submarines that are more expensive than submarines with a steel hull, but have the same immersion depth?

              In addition to the depth of immersion, weight (the titanium hull is much lighter) and the generated magnetic anomalies are still important (for boats with a titanium hull it is much smaller). The maximum immersion depth depends not only on the body material, but also on its thickness. And what is the thickness of the hull of this boat? Likely calculated precisely on these depths - 600 meters.
      2. Lord of Wrath
        Lord of Wrath 30 December 2015 19: 49
        +2
        Quote: kote119
        this is how it is guaranteed can destroy AUG?

        It’s only at the top, nuclear weapons are not effective against surface ships.
        Only here the authors, and the majority of them, have forgotten about the other damaging factors of a nuclear explosion.
        Even if the hull is not damaged, there is penetrating radiation and an electromagnetic pulse - and as a result, "vomiting" irradiated sailors will simply not be able to launch a single missile or lift a single aircraft due to burnt electronics.
        1. Azitral
          Azitral 31 December 2015 09: 27
          +1
          Tell me, why is everyone talking about the air when it comes to an attack on the AUG?
          Yes, the large ships of the warrant are quite resilient against the compound's atomic attack. But this does not apply to an underwater explosion: atomic torpedoes, mines, etc. very effective. 200 kilotons in the middle of the order is enough for its complete and instant destruction. And - no one knows what is the source of heat for excellent Swedish "Stirlings"? This is what I mean: the simplest nuclear reactor that has been used in practice is a hefty piece of plutonium, a subcritical mass, heated by itself to 900 degrees. In principle, some similar technology is available in Sweden. "Stirling" is completely indifferent to whether straw, coal or plutonium is heating it .. And the low efficiency is compensated by the very small dimensions of the heat source together with the BZ compared to a traditional reactor. This is just a guess. Without much advertising, they could easily buy from the United States, at least from the stocks transferred to the same United States for "storage" under Yeltsin.
      3. agent rossii
        agent rossii 31 December 2015 03: 01
        0
        elementary Watson drinks wassat
  9. Jozhkin Cat
    Jozhkin Cat 30 December 2015 19: 25
    0
    Of course she surpassed, she’s Lada okay, beautiful, harmonious.
    If the boat is good, you need to take 10-15 pieces. ,, partners ,, would be very tense
  10. acetophenon
    acetophenon 30 December 2015 19: 31
    -1
    Maybe not to upgrade, but to sell. And with this money to build new ones?
  11. GSVG 86-88
    GSVG 86-88 30 December 2015 19: 33
    +1
    ... and what is the summary?
  12. Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 30 December 2015 19: 48
    +1
    Now they will make coffee in my place, drink it, and will be guessing in the thick, building frets further or not?
  13. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 30 December 2015 19: 55
    +3
    We are still only testing our anaerobic installations (in Germany, Sweden, they have already existed for a long time!), But nevertheless, it seems that all test work fits the logical, i.e. the completion we need, which means that the fleet will be strengthened and it doesn't matter at the expense of nuclear submarines or diesel-electric submarines, its shock component is important. In addition, this type of submarine has proven itself well in the coastal zone, and the last firing of the submarine "Rostov on Don" showed its real capabilities in practice. And this was seen by almost everyone (except for the blind!). The presence of 8-10 submarines of this type makes the Black Sea a Russian Sea. Hence, it is not a fact that the series will be limited to some kind of framework. If only the boat succeeded! There will be enough work for her in all fleets.
    1. dauria
      dauria 30 December 2015 20: 37
      -2
      We are still only testing our anaerobic plants (in Germany and Sweden they have been around for a long time!),


      They have no nuclear installations, so they are spinning as they can with their Stirling. We only need anaerobic garbage for sale and need it in countries where nuclear can not be sold, would make normal diesel people for the coastal zone and nuclear for the oceans, why are they wise? Was the 705 series "Lear" and the dimensions were the same as those of "Varshavyanka", what else do you need? Would bring the reactor to mind ...
      1. Genry
        Genry 30 December 2015 22: 03
        +1
        Atomic, with all its turbines and compressors, is very noisy. And constantly.
        1. Azitral
          Azitral 31 December 2015 11: 41
          +2
          Yes sir. Even those with "natural" circulation of the coolant. In terms of noise, unfortunately, "styling" is beyond competition simply by its nature. It is easier to make it silent.
  14. oxotnuk86
    oxotnuk86 30 December 2015 20: 07
    +2
    Happy New Year to all. Everybody is trying to get something apart, the Lada in this form without an air-independent remote control does not need the fleet. Designers know how many great proets have eaten up. I'm afraid the lot of Lada to be forever experienced.
  15. Barakuda
    Barakuda 30 December 2015 20: 17
    +3
    "Black holes" at low speed of small waves at a critical shallow depth - I've been hearing this for 20 years already, I've heard and read the theory. But is it really the case, as the legend tells us? Are there real Human Certificates on the site? Or, as always, a friend of my father told me who went on a nearby boat.
    I do not want to humiliate the heroism of the submarine crews in any way.
  16. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 30 December 2015 21: 10
    +6
    which is called the "black hole" around the world

    The name was invented by our reporters a couple of years ago, and no one except our reporters does not name the boat as much as possible.
    At each exercise, any of our 30-year-old anti-submarine ship, successfully "detects and conditionally destroys the enemy submarine", the role of which is always played by the same "black hole", or does our military lie to each other and to us? And if our 30-year-old ships calmly detect them, then why can't modern Western ships find out who they are holding us for, for morons?
    Lada was left once again not accepted into the fleet, but left in experimental operation, i.e. and did not take it, but they decided not to hit the manufacturers' muzzle yet, in the hope that someday the boat would be finished. That's all the success of "Admiralty Shipyards" with this project.
  17. zekaze1980
    zekaze1980 30 December 2015 21: 16
    +2
    Guys, let's not to harm, Lada, so Lada, but not to harm. Good luck to the submarine fleet of Russia!
  18. INF
    INF 30 December 2015 22: 13
    -2
    You smell a rocket in po.pe, and then there they are!
  19. kapitan92
    kapitan92 30 December 2015 22: 34
    +7
    Quote: chunga-changa
    which is called the "black hole" around the world

    The name was invented by our reporters a couple of years ago, and no one except our reporters does not name the boat as much as possible.
    At each exercise, any of our 30-year-old anti-submarine ship, successfully "detects and conditionally destroys the enemy submarine", the role of which is always played by the same "black hole", or does our military lie to each other and to us? And if our 30-year-old ships calmly detect them, then why can't modern Western ships find out who they are holding us for, for morons?
    Lada was left once again not accepted into the fleet, but left in experimental operation, i.e. and did not take it, but they decided not to hit the manufacturers' muzzle yet, in the hope that someday the boat would be finished. That's all the success of "Admiralty Shipyards" with this project.

    The Russian Navy has been waiting for Project 677 for a long time! The debugging was clearly delayed. Probably, problems have reappeared about which they do not write or speak. Direct competitors do not "sleep in a boot" and work.
    Germany launched a modern hydrogen fuel cell submarine
    April 19, 2011
    "....... Germany has commissioned a modern hydrogen fuel cell submarine

    This latest submarine, despite its combat mission, uses the most advanced "green" technology. The submarine, type U212A, the side number U-35 (S185), is essentially the very first submarine, which uses only hydrogen fuel cells as its driving energy.

    The German firm Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft (HDW) began working on the 212 project in 1988 year. Three-section submarine hull. Shooting systems, torpedo tubes, submarine crew, central post, rechargeable batteries are located in the nose. In the aft part are the power plant modules themselves. Themselves as fuel cell blocks are located in the connecting cone section. One of the design features of the German submarine is the location on the fence of the cutting of horizontal rudders and X-shaped rudders at the stern, which provides the best controllability of the boat in a submerged position.
    But, in addition to this, the submarine has a number of "strategic" advantages in comparison with other submarines.

    So, thanks to hydrogen fuel cells, the submarine U212A can be submerged much longer than atomic submarines. In addition, due to the high efficiency of the installed hydrogen engine and the use of special screens made of non-magnetic alloys and ceramics, the submarine does not emit heat and does not emit noise.
    Representatives of the Bundeswehr believe that the new submarine, armed with 12 controlled heavy torpedoes, is the peak of perfection in new German underwater technology.

    Main submarine performance characteristics:
    The length of the submarine 56 meters, width - 7 meters.
    Displacement in submerged 1830 tons, in surface 1450 tons.
    The speed of the submarine in a submerged position 20 nodes, in the surface - 12 nodes.
    Power reserve 8 thousands of miles.
    The maximum depth of immersion 700 meters.
    The crew of the submarine 27 man.
    The submarine is armed with 12 guided heavy torpedoes and 24 mines.
    German submarines have always been serious opponents! Is the development of project 677 too protracted?
    It may happen that having entered the series, it will already become obsolete compared to the boats of a potential enemy!
    1. dauria
      dauria 30 December 2015 22: 51
      +2
      This latest submarine, despite its combat mission, uses the most advanced “green” technology. U-boat, type U212A,


      You are late with the "newest" one. The 212 has already been dazzled from all sides, and cannot compete with the Stirling engine. And the elements turned out to be expensive, and the maintenance, and the Germans could not "sell" this boat to anyone. Even we were offered smile .
      In a word, anaerobic boats successfully combine the disadvantages of diesel and nuclear. In terms of energy reserves, they are only 2 times higher than lithium batteries, and at a price they are not far from boats with nuclear power plants. And enough fairy tales, 20 days without flaring up, she "creeps", but does not go. 3.18 kg of oxygen per 1 kg of kerosene for complete combustion - recalculate what it pours into, even taking into account 20% Stirling efficiency.
    2. aleks26
      aleks26 31 December 2015 11: 46
      0
      So, thanks to hydrogen fuel cells, the U212A submarine can be in a submerged position much longer than nuclear submarines.
      What nonsense is this? By the way. zhurnalyuga did not think why the boats in a car crash are on average about 90 days? But iron allows you to walk more.
    3. Azitral
      Azitral 31 December 2015 11: 57
      +2
      1) "So, thanks to hydrogen fuel cells, the U212A submarine can be submerged much longer than nuclear submarines." - Perfect, doggy nonsense. Just re-read this magazine frashka and agree with me. This correlates especially well with a range of 8 thousand miles. Obviously, instead of "nuclear" it meant "diesel".
      2) The presence of batteries suggests that no "anaerobic" EI is out of the question: somehow they store hydrogen, float up and charge the batteries from an electrochemical generator (our development of the 70s) using atmospheric oxygen.
      3) So if there is innovation, then this is something breakthrough in terms of the safe storage of huge quantities of hydrogen. There is a conservative: freeze. There is a promising but difficult: supercritical metal hydrides. A solid body in which a relatively small number of metal atoms holds a lot of hydrogen atoms. Here - there is something to talk about.
      1. Drako
        Drako 1 January 2016 19: 13
        0
        It seems like clever thoughts, but it is noticeable that the New Year made its corrections)) The comrade forgot elementary school physics, otherwise he would compare the formula for the composition of water, the decay energy of water molecules, the amount of oxygen the crew needed for breathing, and the hydrogen supply needed by the power plant.
        I am glad about the level of education, but when leaving for the celestial spheres do not forget about the earthly, why, while floating in the ocean of hydrogen, carry it with you on board?))))
  20. kapitan92
    kapitan92 30 December 2015 23: 03
    +7
    Quote: dauria
    This latest submarine, despite its combat mission, uses the most advanced “green” technology. U-boat, type U212A,


    You are late with the "newest" one. The 212 has already been dazzled from all sides, and cannot compete with the Stirling engine. And the elements turned out to be expensive, and the maintenance, and the Germans could not "sell" this boat to anyone. Even we were offered smile .
    In a word, anaerobic boats successfully combine the disadvantages of diesel and nuclear. In terms of energy reserves, they are only 2 times higher than lithium batteries, and at a price they are not far from boats with nuclear power plants. And enough fairy tales, 20 days without flaring up, she "crawls", but does not go.

    Probably not I was late, but our industry with the adoption of the project 677.
    "....... The first submarine of the new generation entered the South Korean Navy, Defense Aerospace reports.

    The U-214 type submarine is an export modification of the newest German U-212 submarine. The first of three boats of this type for the Korean Navy was built at the Hyundai Heavy Industries shipyard under the license of the German company Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) using German-made components "......
    ".... Now submarines with such dimensions as boats of project 877/636 are being built only by Russia, Japan and China. German submarines of types 209, 212, 214 and French" Scorpen "are much smaller. The last three types of boats are equipped with serial VNEU ( Air Independent Power - AIP). We do not have such installations yet, although the work itself in this direction has been carried out in the USSR since the 60s and then we did not lag behind the West. For testing and development of installations with ECH in the Central Design Bureau "Lazurit" In 1979, a technical project 613E was developed for an experimental submarine, converted from a boat of project 613. The tests were successfully completed in 1989. But a lot of time has passed since then, and such installations have not received real implementation on Russian ships. "Rubin" Igor Vilnit, the enterprise has begun to create a full-scale model of VNEU, but it is still unknown when the fleet and foreign partners will see it.

    Thus, the 636.3 series can become a transitional model in the course of creating fundamentally new non-nuclear ships for the Russian Navy. This was also stated by the chief designer of the Rubin Central Design Bureau, Igor Molchanov, during the laying ceremony for Stary Oskol. Will the hopes come true, time will tell "......



    Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/9233
    So will the hopes come true ?????
    1. dauria
      dauria 30 December 2015 23: 58
      -3
      So will hope come true


      So rent such a boat from the Swedes or the Japanese and see the pros and cons. This is exactly what the Americans did. They didn't even buy. And they are not going to do it. This is a "commodity" for banana countries, which cannot be sold a nuclear submarine because of the nonproliferation treaty, and for which an ordinary diesel man is already small. Why do we need this crap? Just to take away the market from the Swedes? This is when your fleet is without boats?
    2. Azitral
      Azitral 31 December 2015 12: 03
      0
      About the "transitional generation" - a very good idea. Why not test the "chips" of the new generation on the "old" energy? It will not be worse. Evolution successfully complements technical revolutions.
  21. kapitan92
    kapitan92 30 December 2015 23: 10
    +5
    In addition to the export of P / L Germany.
    Germany is the leader among the main exporting countries in the market of nuclear submarines (NAPL) (48 percent)
    Our country takes the second place (37). France has seven, China has five, and Britain has three. The number of countries with submarines in the Navy is gradually increasing, despite the increase in the cost of arms and military equipment. The naval equipment market is dominated by the supply of nuclear submarines with a displacement of mainly 1500–2000 tons.
  22. 23424636
    23424636 31 December 2015 00: 36
    0
    Why there are no deadlines for the development and implementation of boats with VNEU. I do not like this silence of Comrade Vilnit. As it was before, if products do not change within 10 years, more than 50% is modernized, then the price of them for purchases by the state is reduced by 25%. Given Rubin's monopoly structure on the subject of these boats, one should think about neglecting the requirements of the market and the Navy itself, this developer.,
  23. faridg7
    faridg7 31 December 2015 03: 09
    +3
    Even 30 years ago, when I was in school, I read about a hydrogen fuel cell, in which electricity was directly generated from hydrogen and oxygen. current with an efficiency close to 50%. such elements seem to have been put on Mir. what prevents from developing such things for the submarine? Of course, there is the problem of storing hydrogen, but it can be obtained from hydrocarbons. I think this would solve a lot of noise problems
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 31 December 2015 09: 31
      0
      Perhaps because to get the current from hydrogen and oxygen, you first need to take / receive it somewhere and ... it turns out a vicious circle.
      1. faridg7
        faridg7 31 December 2015 09: 51
        +3
        A vicious circle will not work, then it will be a perpetual motion machine.
        Well, they took 2 cylinders with hydrogen and a cylinder with oxygen, and through the tubes they supplied gases to the sponge catalyst — current, water and heat exit. There are few problems with the storage of liquid oxygen, but with hydrogen it is more difficult - you cannot store it under pressure in a metal dish - this bastard oozes through the metal and at the same time weakens it, but in general there are ways, it's just expensive. it’s easier of course to get hydrogen from petroleum products, but there is a problem of the purity of these petroleum products — you just can’t take a solarium — catalysts
        1. Mama_Cholli
          Mama_Cholli 31 December 2015 11: 14
          +1
          I did not mean a perpetual motion machine, but a cyclic dependence.
          But if everything is as you explained, then in this case there is hope, if only when technology allows.
    2. Azitral
      Azitral 31 December 2015 12: 04
      +2
      Hydrogen! This is such an infection in terms of storage. And on military equipment, where, it happens, they burn ...
      1. faridg7
        faridg7 1 January 2016 07: 10
        +4
        Yes, the fact of the matter is that, in my opinion, you need to learn not to store hydrogen, but to receive it directly on board the vessel. if they learned (well, or understood how to do this) how to get on board hypersonic aircraft, then shoving such equipment into the bulk of a submarine should be easier. and this would already be a solution for the noise from a diesel engine - the electric motors still make less noise, and such a fuel cell will work almost silently to recharge the batteries. And the heat from such an installation can also be used if thermocouples are used. the temperature difference between such a unit and sea water will be significant. in my opinion, the problem is that there is no connection between patent organizations and industry (or it is so weak that it is invisible). There are a lot of interesting inventions, but we have problems with their implementation, probably people who, by virtue of their duties, should contribute to the implementation of inventions, do not have the proper knowledge and imagination. But there are surely also those inventions that became a secret at the development stage, and not the fact that an engineer who would have made such an invention easier would have access to it
  24. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn 31 December 2015 10: 56
    +3
    Of course, the boat is of the 4th generation, but the energy is "pre-war"? Either an anaerobic KEU, or it is better to steal Sterling's EI from the Swedes! Then for sure, not only the "black hole", but also the "devil of underwater hell" will become "Lada" or 677B! You can create a fundamentally new EI not according to Walter (hydrogen - oxygen) , but by non-nuclear or "cold" fusion in a heterogeneous chemical reactor (sodium-aluminum-lithium elements) or "space" (now used on satellites, albeit a limited motor resource) ion-pulse generator. There are options, but there is no engineering thought and no military and political will from the leadership! As always in Russia - the Mosin rifle wins, and then we defeat the enemy with "caps" and corpses! No, if you export somewhere in LA, it will go like that! And if for conducting modern war at sea, then the chances of defeating the enemy are extremely small ?! Apparently the Second World War did not teach our admirals anything - the combat effectiveness of Soviet submarines was hundreds or even thousands of times lower than the German ones! It is a pity for the brave submariners who were not built worthy submarines! Glory to Russia! Happy New Year everyone!
  25. YaMZ-238
    YaMZ-238 31 December 2015 12: 26
    0
    I wish nuclear boats had such secrecy ....
    1. Pajamas
      Pajamas 31 December 2015 14: 08
      0
      Quote: YaMZ-238
      I wish nuclear boats had such secrecy ....

      I wish my grandmother also had eggs.
      1. faridg7
        faridg7 1 January 2016 07: 17
        +1
        don’t need to do p ... from her grandfather, oh, but who will he be if his grandmother has extra organs?
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  27. Old26
    Old26 31 December 2015 15: 13
    0
    Quote: Denis Obukhov
    Modern diesel submarines of Russia have a rather specific purpose - such a class of submarines in other countries is generally absent. In addition to coastal and coastal defense, their main purpose is the destruction of the enemy nuclear submarines.

    Is it really missing? I didn’t know that in the same Germany or Japan or in the fleets of a good fifty countries it was not at all. And some of these countries, imagine more of them and builds. And the destruction of the nuclear submarine is very creative and fresh. Even Ohio's speed is 5 knots higher, and torpedo ones are 10-15 knots higher ...
    It’s not worth it once again to make a prodigy from a good boat. It’s one thing — the Black Sea or the Baltic — that’s how atomic ships don’t go there anyway, it’s completely different at the Pacific Fleet or the SF. In the base area, they are indispensable, in the open ocean ...
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 31 December 2015 19: 26
      +1
      At the Israeli Navy, diesel boats fulfill strategic goals. Armed with the KR with nuclear warheads and a range of 1500 km. The whole Middle East is covered.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  28. Sunseich
    Sunseich 31 December 2015 18: 12
    +5
    from bash: # 396599
    An American warship came to visit us. Well, of course, excursions and all the garbage ... I went, examined everything ... When they asked me that I was examining so carefully, I answered that I remember the vulnerabilities. Suddenly in the future it will come in handy ... The eyes of the Americanos and the translator should have been seen))) O_o O_o
  29. TopNaDo
    TopNaDo 1 January 2016 06: 13
    +2
    All this news about this boat is reminiscent of "white noise" We have always had the secrecy of the submarine fleet in the top three. So do not crush or shake the water in the mortar.)>
  30. The comment was deleted.