Vain attempts counterfeiter

How "famous historian" seeks to prove their case.

Doctor of Philology Boris Sokolov made another attempt to "confirm" the figures of the Red Army's demographic losses in the Great Patriotic War (1993 million people) promoted by him since 26,9. Now - drawing up the balance of the male population of the country for 1939 – 1959 years involving the data of the 1939, 1959 and 1979 censuses.

Mr. Sokolov presented the corresponding arguments in the book “Who fought with numbers, and who with skill. The monstrous truth about the losses of the USSR in the Second World War "and in the article" Victory is obtained by excessively large blood. " The results of his calculations are presented in the 1 table, and in the 2 table the data of modern demographers on the male population of the ages considered by the author in 1939 and 1959 are given.

Ignorant hypothesis

First of all, it should be noted that the number of males in 1 in the 1939 – 10 age in the 49 table in Mr. Sokolov is more than five million people more than the demographers (see the 2 table).

Such a large discrepancy is explained primarily by the statement of Boris Sokolov about the large “undercounting” of the male population in the census 1939 of the year. But professional demographers have a different opinion. According to their research, the population of the USSR according to the 1939 census of the year is overestimated by 1,7 – 2,9 million people (2, 4, 6).

In the book on the demography of Russia 30-ies (6), V. B. Zhiromskaya summarized the results of the USSR census survey that decade of the last century (including the results of the special international conference on the 1939 census held in Toronto's 1994) : “... Currently, there are discrepancies in the assessment of credibility and recognition of both censuses (1937 and 1939's. - V.L.) the researchers do not have, the amendments to the 1939 census data for the population almost coincide ... ”(6).

But maybe Mr. Sokolov has very strong arguments showing that he is right. Alas, he does not have not only compelling, but also any sensible arguments. Boris Sokolov discovered an “undercount” of the male population of the USSR at the age of 10 – 49 in the 1939 census of the year (see table 3), relying on the hypothesis that the ratio of the male and female population of different age groups according to the 1939 census of the year should correspond to the number of male and female populations of either the 1959 census or the 1979 census of the year.

This hypothesis is ignorant, since it is based on overly simplistic, primitive ideas about the factors affecting the sex ratio. According to Mr. Sokolov, only wars and repression cause gender imbalance. Therefore, he believes that the sex ratio in the 10 – 19 and 20 – 29 age groups according to 1939 and 1959 censuses should be equal, since it is not affected by wars. And since the Great Patriotic War influenced the sex ratio in the 30 – 39 and 40 – 49 years in the 1959 census, Boris Sokolov equates the sex ratio in these age groups in the 1939 census to the sex ratio in the 1979 census ( see table 3).

The fact that these representations of Mr. Sokolov are incorrect is shown by the data of the 1979 and 1989 censuses. There is no longer any influence of the Great Patriotic War in these censuses on the disproportion of the sexes in the age groups under consideration, and, according to Boris Sokolov, the sex ratio in the same age groups in the censuses should coincide. But in reality there is no coincidence in any age group. This suggests that, in addition to wars, other factors have a significant influence on the sex ratio.

The consequences of hunger

In demography, it is established that the sex ratio in a country's population depends on the cumulative effect of three groups of factors: secondary (the primary sex ratio is the ratio of the number of male embryos to the number of women during fertilization (7) sex ratio: the ratio of the number of boys and girls among live births) differences in the age-specific mortality of men and women and sex differences in the intensity of migration (7).

In the age groups under consideration, differences in the age-specific mortality of men and women, determined by economic conditions (with the intensification of labor, mortality among men increases more than among women), social conditions (with social shocks, mortality among men increases more than among epidemiological, sanitary and hygienic conditions and the level of health care (epidemics take more male lives than women, especially in children’s kovom age), a demographic catastrophe (war, famine, increased mortality among men than among women).

1 table. Balance of the male population of the USSR for 1939 – 1959 years as estimated by B. Sokolov

№ p / p	Name of demographic characteristics	Numerical values ​​(million people)
1	Male population 10 – 49 years old in 1939 year	63,2325
2	Male population 30 – 69 years old in 1959 year	32,857 854
3	Decrease in the male population aged 10 – 49 years over the period 1939 – 1959	30,374 646
4	The number of dead men of the considered age, but not drafted into the army	1,1*
5	The number of dead soldiers in the period of January 1939 th - June 1941 year	0,174*
6	Balance of migration of men of the considered ages in the period 1939 – 1959	-0,0501 (-0,237 + 0,0257 + 0,1612 = -0,0501) *
7	The number of men of the considered ages who died a "natural" death in the period 1939 – 1959	3,0888
8	Demographic losses of men of the considered ages in the Red Army	26,0621**

* According to the book “Who fought with numbers, and who with skill. The monstrous truth about the losses of the USSR in World War II

** The total is calculated by B. Sokolov incorrectly, the correct figure is 25,9617 million people (apparently, B. Sokolov incorrectly took into account the balance of migration)

It is quite obvious that all these factors differed significantly in the periods of the 1939, 1959 and 1979 censuses, therefore the sex ratio in them could not be the same in principle. Especially deformed the sex ratio on the census of 1939 th famine, which broke out in 1932 – 1933. It affected the sex ratio of all the age groups in question.

Those who were in 1939 in the 10 – 19 age group of years were 1933 – 5 in the hungry year of 14. In this age group, “boys who are more fragile by nature than girls had a higher death rate from starvation” (6). For example, in the RSFSR in 1933 – 1934, the total age-specific mortality rates for the male population were higher than the corresponding female population rates for these ages in 15,8 per thousand, while in other pairs of years this excess did not reach 4 per thousand.

The male population in the 30 – 20, 29 – 30 and 39 – 40 years of age suffered more from starvation at the beginning of 49's: the total coefficients of their age-related mortality in 1933 – 1934-m were higher than those of the female population on 24,6, XNX and 24,5 ppm.

2 table. Estimates of the male population of the USSR in 1939 and 1959

№ p / p	Name of demographic characteristics	Numerical values ​​(million people)
		Sokolov B.V. (1)	E. Andreev, L. Darsky, T. Kharkov (ADH) (4)	Gelfand V.S. (3)
1	Male population 10 – 49 years old in 1939 year	63,2325	58,185	57,4652
2	Male population 30 – 69 years old in 1959 year	32,857 854	33,377	32,8578
3	Decrease in the male population aged 10 – 49 years over the period 1939 – 1959	30,374 646	24,808	24,6074

In the 1959 census, the 1946 – 1947 famine could not help but mark, although it was significantly inferior in terms of the scale and consequences of 30's hunger. In the RSFSR, in the 10 – 19 age group of years (1947 – 0 – 9 years), the total age-specific mortality rates of the male population in 1946 – 1947 years were higher than the corresponding coefficients of the female population only on 6,4 per thousand, and in the 20 – 29 age group - on 3,8 ppm. The age-specific death rates of 1979 in the male population groups that were compared by Boris Sokolov with the 30 – 39 and 40 – 49 age groups according to the 1939 census were 13,8 and 21,8 per thousand.

Calculations of the absolute figures of male mortality show that 1932 – 1933 famine increased in the RSFSR in the 1939 census the disproportion between the sexes in the draft age by more than one million people compared to the sex ratio of the corresponding ages by the 1959 and 1979 censuses. Since the consequences of the 30 starvation famine, similar to those considered, were also in Ukraine and Kazakhstan, the famine increased the disproportion of the sexes by about 1,7 million people for the whole USSR, which practically coincides with the “underreporting" of the male population by the 1939 census (see table 3). It should also be noted that in addition to the famine, the increase in male mortality in the 30-ies caused economic and social changes due to the industrialization of the country and the collectivization of agriculture.

Thus, the disproportion of the sexes in the 1939 census of the year is not the result of “undercounting" of men of draft age, as Mr. Sokolov believes, but a consequence mainly of the 1932 – 1933 famine.

Defined, to put it mildly, incorrectly

Now about the “amendment” to the underreporting of the female population in the Muslim regions of the country (778,2 thousand). This is generally some kind of ridiculous, fantastic construction that has nothing to do with reality. For some reason, Boris Sokolov imagined that in the 1939 census of the year in the Muslim regions of the country at all ages from 10 to 49, the male advantage "was due to a significant undercount of the female population" (1). This means that, according to Mr. Sokolov, the number of males and females in Muslim regions aged 10 – 49 should be the same.

But this is an absurd idea. It is the same as to consider men and women anatomically quite the same. In fact, male preponderance is natural for these ages in all Muslim countries and regions (and not only in them). Moreover, there is a male preponderance until the age of 65 years, and in the states located on the Arabian Peninsula, where the traditions of Islam are strong (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, the UAE, Oman, Bahrain) - at all ages (8). The main reason for this trend is the continued downgrading of the role and position of women in the family and society. Women in Muslim countries and regions are usually less educated and live in more difficult socio-economic conditions, their mortality is higher. In Muslim families, the birth of girls is less desirable than the birth of boys. Since the traditions of Islam were still strong in the Caucasus and Central Asia in the 30s of the last century, in these regions there was a more significant male advantage at the ages under consideration than in other regions of the USSR.

3 table. The results of B. Sokolov’s “undercounting” of the male population according to the 1939 census of the year.

Male population at 1939 census of the year		What, according to B.V. Sokolov's hypothesis, should be the sex ratio of the census 1939 of the year	B. Sokolov's calculations of "undercounting" the male population in the 1939 census of the year
Age groups	Number (persons)		In% of the male population of the relevant age group on the census 1939 of the year	The number of "undercount" (thous.)
10 – 19 years	18 691 362	Sex ratio in the age group 10 – 19 years according to 1959 census	3,28	604,4 (1)
20 – 29 years	15 033 500	Sex ratio in the age group 20 – 29 years according to 1959 census	2,52	1293,7 * (1)
30 – 39 years	12 351 640	Sex ratio in the age group 30 – 39 years according to 1979 census	3,10	382,9 (1)
40 – 49 years	7 058 239	Sex ratio in the age group 10 – 39 years according to 1979 census	5,29	373,4 (1)
Total		2654,4 + 778,2 – 492,6 = 2940,0

The number is calculated incorrectly. The correct count is: (15 033 500 x 2,52) / 100 = 378 844 people. = 378,8 thousand people. In this case, the total “undercount” without amendments is equal to 1739,5 thousand peopleand the final figure is 2025,1 thousand people

Amendment to male overweight in Muslim and other traditional regions (1)

Correction for the death of men of the considered age groups from the repression of 30-s (1)

So, the figures of the "undercounting" of the male population of the USSR according to the 1939 census of the year are false. They were fabricated by Boris Sokolov on the basis of primitive, not having any relation to the reality of the sex ratio in the population of the USSR.

Thus, in Mr. Sokolov’s balance sheet (see table 1), the male population aged 10 – 49 years in 1939 should be reduced by 3322,2 to thousands of people (2940,0 thousand people + 389,2 thousand people - extrapolation of “undercounting” on population of the territories attached to the USSR in 1939 – 1940 (1) - up to 59,9033 million people. In addition, out of the available population estimates of the territories attached to the USSR in 1939 – 1940 years (17 – 23 million people) B.V.S. chose the maximum (23 million), while obtaining the number of men of draft age on this In their territories, thousands of people are equal to 7002,6. If you use the full range of population estimates for the territories attached to the USSR in 1939 – 1940, the number of men of military age in these territories will be 5175,8 – 7002,6 thousand.Thus, in Boris Sokolov’s balance, the total male population of the USSR is aged 10 – 49 years in 1939 should be reduced to 58,1 – 59,9 million people.

Other components of Mr. Sokolov’s balance are also identified, to put it mildly, incorrectly.

As a result of calculating a rather rough method (according to average mortality rates) and additional manipulations, he obtained the 3088,8 number of thousands of people who died by “natural” death over the period 1939 – 1959 for men of 10 – 49 years in the 1939 census of the year (1). Meanwhile, according to the results of other studies (4, 3), obtained by a much more accurate method - the age-shifting method, only in peacetime from 1946 to 1959 a year, the number of deceased men who turned 1939-10 years old from 49 thousands of people (4268,8) to 3 thousand people (4750). Taking into account the “natural” dead men of the considered ages in 4 – 1939 (1945 thou. People (3408)), we find that the total number of deaths in 4 – 1939 is the “natural” death of men, which according to the 1958 census of the year were 1939 – 10 years , ranges from 49 to 7,7 million people, that is, 8,1 – 4,6 million more than “counted” by Boris Sokolov.

Not about 27 millions

Understated by Mr. Sokolov and the number of dead men of the considered age from the number who did not serve in the army, and the balance of male migration. The percentage of dead men of military age who did not stand up for various reasons in the ranks of the USSR Armed Forces during the Great Patriotic War, with total civilian losses 14,5 – 17,9 million people (2) was about 40 percent, that is 5,8 – 7,2 million people. In the balance of migration of the male population of the ages under consideration, Boris Sokolov did not take into account the remaining Soviet prisoners of war in the West (200 th.) And men taken to Germany (100 – 200 th.).

In addition, B.V. Sokolov greatly underestimated the number of post-war emigrated men of the age in question (237 thousand people with a total external migration of 1,4 million people (1). Total external migration from the USSR to 1945 – 1949 years (due mainly to population exchange between the USSR and other countries within the new borders) is estimated by demographers on a much larger scale - 3 – 5,5 million people (9). At the same time, the number of emigrated men of the ages in question was more than one million people. On the migration of men of military age in 1939 – 1959 there were at least 1,5 a million people. In turn, A. G. Vishnevsky and Z. A. Zayonchkovskaya give such figures of external migration from the USSR to 1939 – 1948 – million 8 – 10 (10).

Taking into account these adjustments, the total demographic loss of men of the ages under consideration in the Red Army (see the last row of the 1 table) should be reduced to 8,4 – 11,0 million people.

The above evidence quite convincingly refutes the findings advocated by Boris Sokolov about the demographic losses of the Red Army - 26,9 million people. By the way, he “calculated” them with a method that is absolutely unsuitable for determining casualties on the Soviet-German front due to its excessive, fundamentally unavoidable methodological errors. But that's another topic.

Sources of

1. Sokolov B.V. “Who fought with numbers, and who with skill. The monstrous truth about the losses of the USSR in the Second World War. ” M., Yauza Press, 2011

2. Rybakovsky L. L. "The loss of life of the USSR and Russia in the Great Patriotic War." M., RAS, 2001

3. Gelfand V.S. “Population of the USSR over 50 years (1941 – 1990): A statistical handbook”. Perm, publishing house Perm. Un-ta, 1992

4. Andreev, E. M., Darsky, L. E., Kharkov, T. L. “Population of the Soviet Union 1922 –1991”. M., "Science ,, 1993

5. "The All-Union Population Census 1939 of the Year: Main Results." M., "Science", 1992

6. Zhiromskaya V. B. “Demographic story Russia in 1930-s. A look into the unknown. M., "Russian Political Encyclopedia" (ROSSPEN), 2001

7. Medkov V. M. "Demography" (textbook). M., INFRA-M, 2008

8. whoyougle.ru/place/statistics/sex-ratio

9. "Peoples of Russia" (encyclopedia). M., scientific publishing house “Great Russian Encyclopedia”, 1994

10. Vishnevsky A., Zayonchkovskaya J. “The waves of migration”. Free Thought, No. 12, 1992

Comments

[Vadivak]

Doctor of Philology Boris Sokolov made another attempt to "confirm" the figures of the demographic losses of the Red Army that he had been promoting since 1993. [/ b


The election attempt. Let it be better than the killed Germans, Hungarians, Finns, Italians, Spaniards and another rabble beaten by the Red Army considers

[esaul]

"Five Russians were more dangerous than thirty Americans" - these are the words of Otto Carius, a German tanker who fought during the Second World War both in the East and in the West. Karius O. "Tigers in the Mud". M., 2005.
The study of the American military department "Gemen Menpower" - the most respectable according to the statistical apparatus - determined the number of dead and missing German soldiers at 5 people "

[Satanail]

But not at the beginning of the war .. How many historians have so many interpretations of stories. The truth is one, but not always historians can see it. Distorting history and facts makes for the final assassination of self-identity the very identification of the people, it is regrettable.

[KGB161rus]

What can I say, what our ancestors did is the greatest feat on our planet, you know the territory of our country, all this territory and everyone who lives on it now should thank those wars that laid their heads for 41 - 45 years, so that we live now. Now in the modern world, attempts are being made to distort the past, leaving the victory of the Red Army somewhere in the backyards, and just as it is now in Ukraine (followers of Yushchenko, Yanukovych, Bender), renouncing their victory is blasphemy, and humiliating people and their memory , time will put everything in its place, and our victory has already taken a place in history, but the identities of some people who distort it, I think no one will remember in a year. . .

[esaul]

Satanail, from 30 of August to 8 of September of 1941. in the Soviet offensive (!) operation near Yelnya, in a week of fighting on one sector of the front, the Germans lost 45 thousand of their soldiers! With the defeat of the British expeditionary forces in France, the defeat of France itself and its army, the capture of Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg, the German army lost 45 774 killed! This is the data of the Central Bureau of personnel loss accounting at the General Staff of Germany. This is only in one episode!

[Satanail]

At the very first attack, our people lost more, per soul of the killed enemy. Based on the total fighting. The first bombed airfields, the first border guards to slow down. Then everything is correct that you write and happened. If we count in total how many of ours and our allies have lost and them, then we can say that more of them perished per soul of a Russian soldier. You can count all the dead, including those who were captured and the rear, then ours lost more ... So you can endlessly ... In general, if we talk about those who held back the first weeks (about the infantry), then yes, ours lost less than they did .. If you remembered the "Brest Fortress", there are almost a hundred Fritzes there in general 1 Russian soldier.

[Vadivak]

Quote: esaul

the number of dead and missing German soldiers in 5 100 728 people

Add here the same amount of evil allied to the Germans who fought in the USSR

[esaul]

Vadim, I welcome and completely agree!

[fellow misha]

In the US Army in the period from 1944 to the end of hostilities in 1945, soldiers were sent to the rear with a diagnosis of "fatigue" of about 900 thousand people.

[Charon]

Acute Coca-Cola deficiency.

[Uhalus]

It is the election. The guy is clearly not a fool, so he hired. Even if we assume that he is honestly trying to open something (at), then this must be done differently and many factors should be taken into account; it is necessary to analyze the methods of other authors and be able to refute them, since such a truth finder. And so ... Indeed, it looks bad.

[Commoner]

History is a very serious thing. A free interpretation of the facts and their selective presentation can distort the picture of the past beyond recognition. Needless to say, this is beneficial to the enemies of Russia?
And vice versa, the people in their epics always held heroes honored and endowed them with superhuman strength, called them the intercessors of the Russian Earth, which always served as an example for real heroes who believed in the victories of their fathers and grandfathers, honored their memory and repeated their deeds!
What is better: "history" in falsified facts, humiliating and trampling on national identity or epics filling with pride for their people?

[Frost]

Absolutely agree with you.

[Lech e-mine]

KAY KAIN AND KNOW AGAIN AS OUR FAVORITE SHITS OFFER.

[sir]

something like that. yes?

[wasjasibirjac]

it is clear that the grandfather at one time strongly "repented" Probably more than one Fritz accepted repentance from him and found his 2 meters of land

[KuigoroZHIK]

lobotomy should be done to those who are trying to expel our history.

[Dock]

I would even suggest - bilobotomy or cranio-destruction with the subsequent amputation of a non-functioning organ.

[bober]

Yes, it is clear that someone did not like the research of Sokolov at all, and even wrote rebuttals. Now, just look at the decline in the male population aged 10-49 over 20 years. .they are basically young. I recall youth is considered to be 30 years old. And what's the point of inventing something for Sokolov? But what they fought in number is not a secret to anyone. Even during the union they talked about 45 million people. And the falcons are right only because that you need to really know the loss, despite the fact that many do not like it

[Charon]

They spoke at the Union of 20 million. It was so.
They only talked about total losses, including civilians.
Now they are talking about 27 million. So what? Found another 7 million corpses?
7 million are those who could be born, but not born.
Direct military losses of 8,5 million.
20 million include people who died and died of starvation and disease. Including blockades and the deceased at work in Germany.
27 million demographic losses, taking into account declining birth rates.

Of course, there are bloodthirsty individuals who seized on the last figure and give it out for the loss of the army.
But then the total loss, taking into account the civilian population, should be 27x3 = 81 million.
And there are still ghouls who claim that 50 million died in the army and not a million less. Otherwise, the democratic ratio of our losses with the Germans and their allies is not 10: 1.
But what does this have to do with history?

[rexby63]

did not confuse with a finger? In the USSR, they talked about the total losses of 20 million people. Your shitty idols (Shurka Solzhenitsyn, Andryukha Sakharov, etc.) raised the bar to 40 million. Then they thought, decided that cool, lowered to 27 million. No one can understand that 20, that 27, that 40 million is all the same terrible and very much. These are not dead numbers, they are people, they could enjoy life, love, raise children, build, plant. After all, these 27 million, as Stalin himself said, are the BEST, they did not surf the Internet for days, did not argue who is cooler, they simply took and died for their MOTHERLAND. Think, you could do it the way they are, without reasoning, a German is good or bad, not thinking that they were surrounded by soldering. And do not read Sokolov, it’s better to take the count yourself, start thinking with your head, and not someone else’s uncle.

[bubla5]

Here again, the wise men were found, the next fault of their homeland, if only yes

[bober]

it’s like you multiplied everything in a heap. and the main thing is to find out the truth, not the relation. Relation matters only at the conclusion stage
and when I was still in the union, I knew about combat losses of 12 million. And then figures were made public already in Russia, that the total losses were about 27 million.

[Charon]

Quote: bober

how did you multiply everything so much

Is this a question I have been asked?
Multiplying, I took the ratio of dead military personnel and civilians. Standard practice.

[bober]

actually civilians died less than a soldier

[Charon]

Remind about the besieged Leningrad? Or Stalingrad, where about 100 thousand local residents and refugees died under bombs in one day?

[patriot464]

Quote: bober

россии

of Russia

[bober]

and this victory was not only of the Russian people. The ratio of Russians in the union was approximately 30%. All the peoples who lived in the union participated. The Second World War is the tragedy of the peoples and, if you really look, the Germans are victims of these tragedies. The people became victims of not quite healthy people.

[rexby63]

No, there are more than 40% of Russians (I'm talking about military losses). 5 756 000 people

[esaul]

Beaver, in terms of the percentage of those who participated in the war, is a question for the nationalists. They love to suck on such candy! And about the merits of each people from the entire USSR - find the speech of JV Stalin (Georgian!) "For the Russian people!" delivered on May 24, 1945 at a reception in the Kremlin in honor of the commanders of the Red Army. This is a historical fact!

[bober]

Well, you won’t scream our victory. Here is nationalism too. The rest of us shot from slingshots

[Dock]

When we say, "OUR", we mean the victory of all who crushed the fascist nit. This is the Victory of the entire SOVIET PEOPLE. At that time we were all one people, and that's why we survived. Both the West and the United States are well aware that our strength lies in unity! That is why they are so actively trying to plant nationalism on us. And if Stalin (Mengrel) said it, it is worth a lot!

[bober]

Yeah, explain to everyone who writes here that you told me))))))))))))))))))

[Uhalus]

No need to juggle. This is ugly, dear. Everyone fought. The entire SOVIET people (with the exception of some small nations, people of whom they did not mobilize; and even those were accepted if they themselves asked). Just Russians, in terms of dividing into nationalities, were the core, the forming and unifying composition. That is why I.V. Stalin treated the Russians with respect and was not shy about voicing this.

[танк]

Discussing their writings, we prove to them that this is interesting, you need to be able to ignore it, I read a couple of lines no longer, as they told me at school, there are so many dead, my opinion

[Uhalus]

Alas and ah - you have to pay! - with arguments, in truth (if it is, of course). This is called counter-propaganda. Otherwise ... We have too many who trust the enemy.

[SVD]

boberSAID:

...
peoples became victims of not quite healthy people

Like you, because as you are ETERNALLY DISSATISFIED

[bober]

Do you want a war Schnick? Only for some reason I’m sure that people like you will be the first to run away. Hatred of people from scratch is not entirely normal. Offended ..... in the course of life, here you are burping

[mitrich]

Once I read this "historian", a monograph called "Occupation". The general leitmotif of that book was the thought of how the workers and peasants lived under Stalin and how WONDERFUL and prosperous under Hitler during the occupation.
And when I saw him on TV once, I realized: he is the same Sokolov as I am Barack Obama.
Figures like him for NGO grants and the Holocaust will give a damn, in which case, if only to sting Russia more painfully. Subverters X --- YOU!

[rexby63]

"Don't beat the musician ..." Understand, it was difficult for a sniffed philologist in the early 90s, and thirty pieces of silver are also money. And since a philological education presupposes a light pen and a penchant for fantasies, that's flooded And the shitcrats of the local spill are happy and the overseas owners

[Cap-3 USSR]

It is necessary to remember these losses, and not to overshoot every time when it is profitable. But in general, the state should do this. Until the last soldier is buried, the war cannot be considered over. So someone said to mine.

[Sobibor]

And why is he wrong?
In the first month of the war alone, the USSR lost more than 3 million troops - mostly prisoners, but most of them did not survive until the end of the war.

[ork777]

And how many after the liberation in 42-43 fought no further? My relatives for example. So don't bullshit. If you do not own the topic do not crow

[подводник]

Where do these Germans come from !!! Sobibor and beaver, even nicknames are similar !!!!

[Artemka]

Reptiles breed, and we minus.

[bober]

I noticed the bold and ready to fight here. You won’t be the first to find it if something happens. The loss ratio is more worrying, not real numbers

[esaul]

Well, you, Mr. Beaver, from the stash, with stocks of jam and flour, are probably best seen ...

[schta]

Nemchura lost 8 million soldiers on the eastern front or on the western and African too?

[bubla5]

Soon they will add that we have lost the entire current level of the population and should be equal in numbers to the Chinese

[J_silver]

Sokolov gives the impression of being insane, constantly repeating the same thing, like a hackneyed record, and he does not have any special facts on his hands - all his figures are taken from the ceiling ...

[dmnatbor]

Well, if really a falsifier, and therefore a provocateur. That conversation with such is simple.

At his expense. guys! On bayonets nits!

[boos24]

the losses were huge but survived and our duty to honor and remember everyone

[Ion coaelung]

Does anyone know the coefficients of comparison of our soldiers against others? And in general, can such people have life? So it would be possible to compare among themselves armies that did not even fight among themselves.

[fellow misha]

President of the United States of America F. Roosevelt on the Russian army and the prospects of waging a war against the "Axis", May 6, 1942: “From the point of view of the grand strategy, this spring and summer it is difficult to point out any other fact, except for the simplest: the Russian armies kill more soldiers of the Axis powers and destroy more fascist military equipment than all the other 25 United Nations combined ”

[Magadan]

The western population just feels flawed, and that’s watered. All of them, except the Germans themselves, turned out to be cowards and suckers. Example: when the Germans moved to Moscow, there was a battle on the Borodino field, the very one where the Russians fought with Napoleon. In this field, a German general (it seems Gott) made a speech before the French volunteers (4 battalion) about their heroic ancestors. Those enthusiastic rushed into battle. But at the very first encounter with the Russians, they simply ran away. Italians and Romanians also fought approximately.
Of all the NATO, only Germans have really cool soldiers, the rest are. So they are trying to increase morale with this method, pouring mud on Russians

[esaul]

Salute, Magadan! I agree with you, even that the Germans are excellent warriors. Your conclusion, regarding the rest of the Caucasians, is the same, I support.

[mind1954]

In my life I had to deal with people from whom about whom
it was impossible to hear a single positive word!
Of course, I had no illusions that it was said about me, behind my back
same. But he could not understand, well, what a pleasure?
The only thing that can be assumed is to "raise" yourself above others!

[Charon]

So.
You can increase your own self-esteem and rise above others by either raising yourself or lowering others. The first path is the path of personality. The second is the path of insignificance.
States are also affected. It all depends on the prevailing psychotype.
A nation that feels great does not need to lower its neighbors. He doesn’t just need it. A people experiencing an inferiority complex cannot but pour mud on their opponent. I will not point with my finger so as not to breed an unnecessary discussion. But looking around you can see for yourself.

[prunx]

Yes, this is the Khrushchev ravings of the 20th Congress. In total, 9 million troops were mobilized, and the number of losses included not only the killed, but also the wounded. Our losses are comparable to the losses of the Wehrmacht, given the whole rabble that fought on the side of the Nazis!

[ork777]

And how many after the liberation in 42-43 fought no further? My relatives for example. So don't bullshit. If you do not own the topic do not crow