What will we receive Ukrainian debt?

99
So, what everyone expected and prepared for, it did happen. Here it is, the financial default of Ukraine. Of course, one should not expect any special effects from him, such as the departure of the entire government. Not for that they sit there. So Ukraine will remain in the same place where it was, and the fateful Ukrainian will also remain in their seats.

What will we receive Ukrainian debt?


Let's look at the situation logically and calmly, without shouting. The shouts should all have ended when Putin proposed an installment plan to pay Ukraine’s debt on 3 of the year. Yes, the cries of "we were robbed and leaked" was enough. Exactly the same number of cries, "it would be better for me to be given my share." But let's not talk about stupid things, let's talk about serious things.

The serious thing is that the Ukrainian government never thought about paying this debt. If only because there is nothing to pay it. Not today, not in perspective. So to talk about the payment or postponement of the payment that no one was going to pay, unnecessarily.

The day is today. Oddly enough, but the Ukrainian media are in no hurry to shout about another peremog and that Moscow has lost its nose. Quietly and calmly state the fact of non-payment and the prospects of the court. Like RIA "News"quote.

And here, Prime Minister Medvedev is starting to implement a plan for knocking out this debt.

“I would like the members of the government to prepare all the necessary decisions in order to apply to the jurisdictional body that was elected on the basis of our agreement to consider this dispute.”

“This (delayed payment) means that a financial default has come. There are ten more days of the grace period, when the debt can be returned without penalty, but judging by the statements of Ukrainian officials, they are not going to do this. Accordingly, a default in the legal sense will occur in 10 days. ”


So the court. Actually, in any court, wherever ours turned, they will not be happy. The Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague, the International Court of Arbitration in Stockholm and their counterparts are unlikely to defend Russia's interests. Not for that purpose.

But they will have to accept the case for consideration, so ... alas, but Ukraine is bankrupt.

But whatever the decision of the court, the question of obtaining a debt, even with a positive decision, is still a question. Neither Europe nor America deigned to lay out the required 3 billion from their pockets to help their fellow allies. That's what I understand, plums. Friendship is friendship and dollars are apart.

The argument of the Ukrainian side in the media looks, to put it mildly, childish. Well, they did not take it, but Yanukovych. That's from him the demand should be. Funny, at the level of kindergarten and sandbox. It turns out, they are clever, they put everything on the shelves, and in Russia some fools live, as the Soviet debts paid off, and Yeltsin’s with Gorbachevsky. And it was necessary to send Yeltsin to Ukrainian logic. He took from him and ask. As - in general, not our headache, although necromancers call from Africa.

Funny Ridiculous. If it were not so sad. For 3 billion on the road do not roll.

How and what to get, here is an interesting question. Especially when you consider that there is nothing to receive by and large.

If only zemlykom ...

And what, did the Russians sell Alaska to the Americans at one time? And the French in their time for a Louisian deal in general, half of the territory of the current United States sold.

And why not concede part of the Ukrainian lands at cost? Those who are still crazy about the whole of Ukraine can not give. Yes, there is some kind of glovebox there, ruin is there, evil separatists with terrorists are entrenched there ...

Nothing, we have the experience of putting things in order in such places. We agree. Convince. We will help.

I would just like that question and throw it in for thought. And the same Yatsenyuk would get rid of a headache, and three billion ... of the type would save.
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  1. dsi
    +9
    22 December 2015 06: 32
    And why not concede at cost part of the Ukrainian lands?

    Their even cost does not suit. Something was not stolen before ...
    1. +22
      22 December 2015 07: 07
      What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
      Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 07: 59
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
        Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel

        Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))
        1. +34
          22 December 2015 08: 01
          Quote: Samaritan
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
          Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel

          Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))

          the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.
          1. +3
            22 December 2015 08: 29
            Quote: atalef
            the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.

            Sasha! I beg of you! who needs it? wassat do not go and isho "garnie maidens"? feel
            1. +5
              22 December 2015 08: 35
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Quote: atalef
              the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.

              Sasha! I beg of you! who needs it? wassat do not go and isho "garnie maidens"? feel

              Tymoshenko?
              1. +3
                22 December 2015 09: 12
                Quote: atalef
                Tymoshenko?

                you are naughty !!! laughing
            2. +1
              22 December 2015 08: 51
              Andrey, there are now other priorities. I mean, "garn lads"
              EU in a word.
              1. 0
                22 December 2015 12: 01
                Even I have a feeling. that he is outraged not by the fact that they are prostitutes, but by the fact that they are doing this for little money.
            3. +6
              22 December 2015 10: 49
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Sasha! I beg of you! who needs it?


              Hey.
              If someone needs THIS, then they should hurry up, because Pan Padro & Co seems to be preparing to "make legs".
              (cry.)
            4. +1
              22 December 2015 11: 20
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Quote: atalef
              the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.

              Sasha! I beg of you! who needs it? wassat are not extinct go and isho "garny girls"? feel


              Dear, are you talking about Yulia Tymoshenko, or did you immediately swing at Lyashko? laughing
              No offense hi
              1. 0
                22 December 2015 12: 03
                Quote: Xzistant
                Dear, are you talking about Yulia Tymoshenko, or did you immediately swing at Lyashko?

                focus strictly on women! wink
          2. +17
            22 December 2015 08: 47
            Just kidding, the Ukrainian enterprises owed 470 billion rubles to our Vnesheconombank, which is three times more than the public debt of Ukraine being discussed. But few people talk about this, but we will not understand how to return it. And 240 billion weighs loans for Olympic venues. The government has already allocated 300 billion rubles. from the national welfare fund to save VEB. Yeah, nobly we walked on expensive oil, all that we have accumulated now is about ... eating.
            1. +4
              22 December 2015 08: 59
              Quote: Nikolai K
              Jokes as a joke, but ... everything that we have accumulated now about ... we eat.


              Putin "" Russia is making, has already made a huge contribution to supporting Ukraine. Here I will say again, our banks have already invested about $ 25 billion in Ukraine. The Russian Ministry of Finance issued a loan last year - another three billion. Gazprom provided loans to the Ukrainian economy for another 5,5 billion, even with a discount that no one had promised, for 4,5 billion dollars. Calculate how much this all together will be. This is 32,5 - 33,5 billion dollars just recently. "

              Something like that.
              1. +15
                22 December 2015 11: 08
                Quote: Shveps
                .... Count how much it all together will be. This is 32,5 - 33,5 billion dollars only lately. "Here, something like that.


                If Putin and Ko were giving away their personal billions, or billions of oligarchs have no questions - chick, fraternize. But they, without asking us, give our money to those who are ready to kill us.
                1. -5
                  22 December 2015 13: 37
                  Quote: larand
                  If Putin and Ko were giving away their personal billions

                  What? Billions? Did they write in the yellow press?
                  Quote: larand
                  But they, without asking us, give our money back

                  Yours are in your pockets, and all that is paid "from taxes" is STATE - it is your duty to pay taxes, not the right!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +4
                    22 December 2015 22: 42
                    My friend, you would have scolded Putin, then you would have had pluses, and so couch strategists have minus you.
                    I’ll join you, to hell with these minuses:
                    I ALLOW PUTIN TO SPEND MY MONEY TO PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY, AS HE CONSIDERS NEEDED !!!
                    And THOSE BALUBALS, RINGERS, VLASOVETS AND WHO DOES NOT LIKE MY PROPOSAL YOU CAN PUT ME MINUSES.
                    Quote: Down House
                    But they, without asking us, give our money. This is generally ridiculous, And why the general in the war does not ask the opinion of the private: "Private Ivanov approves, how the general put the guns. Or does not approve."
                    1. +1
                      23 December 2015 07: 32
                      Quote: Kostya Andrei

                      I ALLOW PUTIN TO SPEND MY MONEY TO PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY, AS HE CONSIDERS NEEDED !!!
                      And THOSE BALUBALS, RINGERS, VLASOVETS AND WHO DOES NOT LIKE MY PROPOSAL YOU CAN PUT ME MINUSES.


                      Do you think that investing 33 billion in the economy of a country controlled by an enemy government is the defense of the interests of the Russian Federation ??? Well, send also your personal 100 rubles. valtsmanu and egg, help protect the Russian Federation.
            2. -1
              22 December 2015 21: 05
              Those who really took a walk on expensive oil, those and grandchildren do not ... eat that their grandfathers accumulated. And here we are - past the basin.
          3. 0
            22 December 2015 10: 44
            Quote: atalef
            the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.


            Well, these g ... nukes (verbally) are fucked every single day and who is not back.
            (cry.)
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 12: 04
              Battalion Vatnikov "Aydar" laughing

        2. +6
          22 December 2015 08: 29
          Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))
          Depends on the gender of the instructor, otherwise the ass may get sick ...
        3. +1
          22 December 2015 08: 40
          And the ass is not a pity, given the very widespread sexual unconventionality in Holland? wink
        4. 0
          22 December 2015 10: 43
          Quote: Samaritan
          Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))
          1. +2
            22 December 2015 11: 12
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            Quote: Samaritan
            Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))

            May I be the same Andryushenka?
            good
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 12: 05
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              Quote: Samaritan
              Oh you oh well ?! I would give right every day :))))

              May I be the same Andryushenka?
              good

              Sasha, as you wish! Yes laughing
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        22 December 2015 08: 01
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
        Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel

        Oh you oh well ?! only I'm afraid you can’t choose a partner :))))
        1. +3
          22 December 2015 08: 31
          Quote: Samaritan
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
          Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel

          Oh you oh well ?! only I'm afraid you can’t choose a partner :))))

          depending on your status: if you are a teacher, then there are options, but if the student .... call ... laughing
          1. +6
            22 December 2015 08: 51
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            Quote: Samaritan
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            What will we receive Ukrainian debt?
            Well, I don’t know ... in the Netherlands, over for studying at a driving school, you can pay with sex now ... feel

            Oh you oh well ?! only I'm afraid you can’t choose a partner :))))

            depending on your status: if you are a teacher, then there are options, but if the student .... call ... laughing


            sex gangsters ... the fate of the whole country is at stake here, and they about their ... concerns ... laughing

            Quote: atalef
            Tymoshenko?
            and then you are an old stump where you climb with your bad taste? laughing Great guys drinks
            1. +1
              22 December 2015 09: 00
              Quote: vorobey
              Great guys

              hello "active lesbian"! drinks
            2. 0
              22 December 2015 10: 54
              Quote: vorobey
              here the fate of the whole country is at stake, and they about their ... concerns.


              Friendly greetings.
              And who in this 404 cares about her fate. ONLY BUSINESS and nothing patriotic.
              (cry.)
              1. +1
                22 December 2015 17: 18
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                Well, never mind ... Cho was there something?
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. +1
              22 December 2015 11: 14
              Quote: vorobey
              and then you are an old stump where you climb with your bad taste? Great guys

              The old horse will not spoil the furrow (we won’t talk about the depth, with my weight, there are no problems) laughing
              Hey . Sanya !!!!
              1. 0
                22 December 2015 12: 07
                Quote: atalef
                , with my weight, there are no problems)

                yes isho if went to the root ... laughing
      3. +9
        22 December 2015 13: 10
        Stupidity. You won’t get anything in the near future. In Ukraine, a law was passed that the property of Ukraine is not subject to seizure or sale in payment of debts. And the West will not do anything against Ukraine.
        But it really will be like the lawyers write. Russia will file a lawsuit in a London court. They will accept him there, but the time for considering such disputes with all sorts of protests and appeals of the parties lasts 1-3 years at least! Moreover, Ukraine will seek to delay the process by adding its complaint with material claims in the Crimea, Donbass and so on. Also Ukrainian property in Crimea. As a result, Russia is likely to receive a positive court decision. But to arrest Ukrainian property abroad is a tedious and unprofitable business. Firstly, there is very little of it that does not fall under diplomatic immunity. Secondly, it is necessary to obtain a positive decision of the local courts of these states for the seizure of property. This is still time. The entire loan repayment process will be like a Brazilian series for a period of decades. So Russia needs to say goodbye to this loan.
        There are 2 options - either it will be returned in crumbs for decades or finally there will again change the regime, possibly friendly to Russia. Then she simply must forgive them this duty, as brothers! That’s the whole reality.
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 13: 24
          Quote: kuz363
          Ukraine will seek to delay the process by adding its complaint with material claims in the Crimea, Donbass, and more. Also Ukrainian property in Crimea. As a result, Russia is likely to receive a positive court decision.

          Yes, you are an optimist! Firstly, it is not yet known how much Ukraine will put forward a counterclaim for the same "Crimea, Donbass, etc." (cited). And will the court's decision not be "Solomonov"?
        2. 0
          22 December 2015 15: 44
          .... finally there again will change the regime, possibly friendly to Russia. Then she simply must forgive them this duty, as brothers! That’s the whole reality ...

          ... We will not forgive anyone !!!! am .... We ourselves will need this money .... Find where to spend ... lol
    2. 0
      22 December 2015 07: 57
      What is most interesting on the other hand, the same proposals :) to sell Crimea because one hre.n ours ..
      1. +7
        22 December 2015 08: 59
        Quote: Samaritan
        What is most interesting on the other hand, the same proposals :) to sell Crimea because one hre.n ours ..


        As for Crimea, it no longer rolls with borzh ... DNI of the LPR is also in question ... As for the Kherson region and Kharkov, one might think ..

        In faraway Russia, a woman named Charlotte Russ stated that she had found a second gold ticket. (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)

        In the meantime, look into this glass door. Just don't come in. Never enter. This is the Nut Shop. You can scare away my squirrels.
        1. +1
          22 December 2015 09: 03
          Quote: vorobey
          In faraway Russia, a woman named Charlotte Russ stated that she had found a second gold ticket. (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)

          "Roshenovsky"? belay
        2. +2
          22 December 2015 11: 03
          Not!
          It is necessary to take:
          First of all - Odessa and Nikolaev regions;
          In the second - Kherson and Zaporizhzhya regions.
          And only in the third - Kharkov and Dnepropetrovsk.
          1. +5
            22 December 2015 11: 10
            Quote: abrakadabre
            It is necessary to take: First of all - Odessa and Nikolaev regions; Secondly - Kherson and Zaporizhzhya regions. And only in the third - Kharkov and Dnepropetrovsk.


            go and get it.
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 12: 09
              Quote: atalef
              go and get it.

              from Kyrgyzstan it's ... troublesome. what
            2. 0
              22 December 2015 13: 39
              Quote: atalef
              go and get it.

              All about Crimea you will not forget? request
          2. 0
            24 December 2015 23: 14
            Don't tear yourself up
        3. +1
          22 December 2015 23: 22
          [quote = vorobey] [quote = Samaritan] What is most interesting on the other hand, the same proposals :) to sell Crimea because one horse is ours .. [/ quote]

          As for Crimea, it no longer rolls with borzh ... DNI of the LPR is also in question ... As for the Kherson region and Kharkov, one might think ..

          Sparrow, hello! When I lived in Kherson, the wonderful city, both Nikolaev and Odessa, was founded by Sovereign Catherine. It means these cities were of great importance for the empire at that time. wink
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +2
      22 December 2015 08: 31
      Interestingly, what is the cost of the land, according to the author, the cost of manure "invested" in the land?
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 09: 14
        Quote: Nikolai K
        Interestingly, what is the cost of the land, according to the author, the cost of manure "invested" in the land?

        5 bucks per ton ... was.
        1. +1
          22 December 2015 09: 36
          What will we receive Ukrainian debt?

          And let's demand for debt Poroshenko! The Ukrainians will probably give it away with pleasure, and we are demanding these 3 lards from him - I’ve saved up, while the president earned money. laughing
        2. 0
          22 December 2015 15: 46
          5 bucks is not the cost of land, but the price at which individual deltas tried to move the upper venerable layer, that is, chernozem, abroad
    5. -1
      22 December 2015 13: 35
      Quote: dsi
      And why not concede at cost part of the Ukrainian lands?

      Yes, we need them, not land, but some problems request
    6. -1
      22 December 2015 16: 56
      The current leaders will not go on the sale of land in the Donbass, the land there costs more than 3 billion, they will drag red tape year after year and there you will see something will change, although this option is possible, but there are also possible elections all over Ukraine on federalization then EVERYTHING can be !!!
    7. +1
      23 December 2015 13: 59
      What will we receive Ukrainian debt?

      DeFchonkami :)
  2. +4
    22 December 2015 06: 38
    It’s a paradox, but I also think that they need to demand from them for our money territory at a price of 100000m2-one hundred bucks. And no deferrals or concessions!
    1. +10
      22 December 2015 07: 07
      Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus
      It’s a paradox, but I also think that they need to demand from them for our money territory at a price of 100000m2-one hundred bucks. And no deferrals or concessions!

      This is not a serious conversation, no one at default or something like that sells land 9 well, maybe only Greece) and even then these territories remain under the sovereign jurisdiction of the state.
      I wrote a long time ago that there will be a default ... and nothing
      will happen.
      This will go into the field of jurisprudence, and here the question is .tk nobody knows (of us) how this money went and by what schemes (we don’t forget who was in power) and whether or not they reached their destination (although it’s kind of like to relate to Russia should not), but ... there is Crimea and Ukraine will put pressure on it, but for now the matter is in court - no money, no payments, and Ukraine has another delay.
      In general, if someone was hoping to get money from Ukraine, they would be naive.
      In the sphere of today's relations, they would have had the same if they had. they would do everything not to pay.
      What are the prospects? Yes, no.
      Everything was as it is.
      The confrontation will continue, despite the fact that none of the parties can defeat the enemy in this situation (the relationship can already be called that)
      It’s like two boxers came together in a clinch and didn’t go either way --- but the referee is in no hurry to dismantle it.
      Ukraine said yesterday that either lower the gas price to 200 bucks - or we will not buy at all.
      Judging by how this situation will be resolved. and see who’s standing somewhere.
      1. +1
        22 December 2015 07: 26
        Quote: atalef
        In general, if someone was hoping to get money from Ukraine - naive


        Not really, already Yatsenyuk regularly paid interest on Eurobonds, and that’s tens of millions of dollars
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 07: 46
          Quote: Aleksander
          Quote: atalef
          In general, if someone was hoping to get money from Ukraine - naive


          Not really, already Yatsenyuk regularly paid interest on Eurobonds, and that’s tens of millions of dollars

          it's not about percent
          1. +3
            22 December 2015 07: 54
            Quote: atalef
            it's not about percent

            And what is interest is not money? Or did they give them to Russia with seeds?
      2. -5
        22 December 2015 09: 07
        Quote: atalef
        I wrote a long time ago that there will be a default ... and nothing
        will happen.

        Quite right. It's just that the Russian rulers will use the phrase "Ukraine's default" instead of the profiled 3 billion.
      3. 0
        22 December 2015 12: 06
        As usual write off ... Do not go to the grandmother!
      4. bif
        0
        22 December 2015 12: 54
        Quote: atalef
        Ukraine said yesterday that either lower the gas price to 200 bucks - or we will not buy at all.

        You can arrest advance payments for gas on account of debt ... Take money, declare it on account of debt and gas only in transit. It is clear that such a scheme will work 1-2 times, but at least something, besides, the Khokhlopravitelstvo will be forced to pay further (with the expectation of arrests of advance payments) or buy a reverse at the euro price
    2. +2
      22 December 2015 09: 03
      The serious thing is that the Ukrainian government never thought to pay this debt. If only because there is nothing to pay it. Neither today nor in the future.


      For some reason, it seems to me that the annual New Year's show "Where is our money" will end with debt cancellation.
      We will declare our "goodwill" and write off. As they wrote off to Africans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, etc., etc., etc.
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 09: 11
        Quote: An64
        As written off to Africans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, etc., etc., etc. ...

        But nothing, the Russian rulers by the fall of the ruble, the increase in prices compensate for everything. It is only from their people that they can shake everything to the last.
  3. +6
    22 December 2015 06: 42
    Not for this did the US and the EU rock the Ukrainian boat, so that for three milliards and the relative calmness of Ukrainian citizens, everything would end overnight. The task is to "degrease" and annoy Russia as much as possible. And "payment by Donbas" (this is not possible in principle) will not work as a reasonable way out of the situation. Now, if the cool guys changed their political course and began to rationally talk with the "separatists", pacified the "Aidar" fascists and the like, removed rabid and outspoken grabbers from politics ... I don't believe in these "childish" naive dreams. Even if the majority of Ukrainians vote for the above, the pro-American grant-eaters and personally Joe Biden will not let this come true. Now only the Russian revolt remained, senseless and merciless. There will be blood ... I think let them comprehend their own lives and win it in themselves. You will have to wait 20-30 years ... Entering there with troops and standing along the roads with checkpoints is not an option. They still consider us occupiers. But with direct occupation, there will be less blood. And if it were simultaneously with the voting in Crimea, then blood in the Donbass would not have spilled at all. But history does not tolerate subjunctive moods. PS My friends from Kiev tell me that "the calmness of an alpine meadow" is present in all manifestations of the life of the inhabitants of Kiev, "mats of Russian cities" ...
  4. +3
    22 December 2015 06: 45
    How will we get the debt? .. First, Russia will win the court, and then will hire a "collection" firm to knock out debts .. smile
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 07: 51
      How will we receive the debt? Yes there, besides us, others borrowed money. How will they repay the debt? Than? Who will be the bailiff?
    2. +2
      22 December 2015 08: 33
      Quote: parusnik
      How will we get the debt? .. First, Russia will win the court, and then will hire a "collection" firm to knock out debts .. smile

      Voronezh collectors damn it, the most pesky! Yes
  5. +5
    22 December 2015 06: 47
    I read the article and remembered the film "Chasing Two Hares" as about modern Ukraine and its leadership. Even there is nothing to add.
  6. +3
    22 December 2015 06: 49
    In general, the proposal is certainly interesting. Only now we will not pull the Donbass today. There are no such funds in the budget, and indeed in the country in general. Tighten the belts again? probably still possible. Only by talking to people do I understand that most are already similar to ants.
    In addition to the economy, I don’t see problems with the adaptation of Donbass. We can put things in order there. There is experience. We see in Chechnya. So, today Roman’s proposal is more of a dream than reality.
    1. +3
      22 December 2015 07: 14
      Quote: domokl
      In general, the proposal is certainly interesting. Only now we won’t pull today Donbass

      Good morning, Sasha.
      Well, you understand very well that LDNR of Russia is not needed in the form in which it is now.
      It has already turned into a suitcase without a handle - it’s a pity to throw it away, it’s hard to drag it

      Quote: domokl
      Tighten the belts again? probably still possible. Only by talking with people do I understand that most are already similar to ants

      The authorities are well aware that the accession of Donbass will be sharply negatively received by the people (not immediately) in a month since it’s clear that the people have become poorer, and will not take off their last pants for Lugansk and Donetsk.
      Anyway, you understand very well that it is difficult to imagine a better gift for Poroshenko than joining Donbass to Russia.
      The situation is stalemate
      Quote: domokl
      In addition to the economy, I don’t see problems with the adaptation of Donbass

      Well, yes, everything depends on money - this is the harsh truth of life
      Quote: domokl
      We can put things in order there. There is experience. We see in Chechnya.

      The question is not this, but the question, why do Russia need Donbass at all?
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 07: 44
        Quote: atalef
        Good morning, Sasha.

        Mutually ... The problem is that if you redeem, then you need to redeem not only the Donbass, but also Zaporizhzhya and further down the list ... That is. those areas that have historically been Russian and oriented toward Russia. And it’s not the marianettes from Kiev, but their owners who will not let them in.
        In general, these conversations are nothing more than a latent form of questions that have long been voiced. Like who will pay for the "banquet" in Ukraine? Roman offers to pay us, but partially.
        Sasha is right. The presence of free rubles, regardless of how they are called, determines the tasks to be solved.
        1. +1
          22 December 2015 07: 55
          Quote: domokl
          borrowed ... That's the problem, that if you redeem, then you need to redeem not only the Donbass, but also Zaporizhzhya and further down the list

          and who will sell?
          Quote: domokl
          those areas that were historically Russian and oriented toward Russia. And this is not allowed by the puppets from Kiev, but by their owners.

          What is it that these regions do not really strive for Russia (do not you find)?
          I somehow did not hear about the unrest in Zaporizhia. Dnepropetrovsk, etc.
          Quote: domokl
          Like who will pay for the "banquet" in Ukraine? Roman offers to pay us, but only partially.

          Well, whoever pays, the young lady dances. for free - behind the barn. you understand.
          Quote: domokl
          Sasha is right. The presence of free rubles, regardless of how they are called, determines the tasks to be solved.

          Of course. always has been and will be.
      2. +5
        22 December 2015 07: 44
        Quote: atalef
        The question is not this, but the question, why do Russia need Donbass at all?

        This is exactly what Russia needs Donbass (as opposed to its oligarchy) because it is a Russian land inhabited by Russian people. In the end, Ukrainians were not so long ago called Russians, and under Lenin, Russians living in Ukraine on a voluntary-compulsory basis were recorded in their passports as Ukrainians. And in the end, if all the Novorossiysk lands do not return to Russia, then the Russian-speaking population there will be gradually destroyed, and American military installations will appear directed against Russia. You, gentlemen, "the eternally persecuted and offended people," are not fools and you yourself understand all this.
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 07: 51
          Quote: Skifotavr
          That's just what Rosiii Donbass is needed (unlike its oligarchy) because it is a Russian land inhabited by Russian people. In the end, Ukrainians were also called Russians not so long ago, and under Lenin, Russians living in Ukraine were voluntarily forced in their passports as Ukrainians.

          good
          Quote: Skifotavr
          And in the end, if all the Novorossiysk lands do not return to Russia, then the Russian-speaking population there will be gradually destroyed,

          Fairy tales . it seems that in the remaining Ukraine they speak French and the Indians live there.
          surprisingly . but where is ps, where are the murders of the Russians? or do Russians live only in New Russia?
          Quote: Skifotavr
          and there will be American military facilities against Russia

          They will appear so. this is not stopping
          Quote: Skifotavr
          You, gentlemen, "the eternally persecuted and offended people", are not fools and you yourself understand all this.

          Well, judging by the flag (yours) - this is a question. which of us is forever persecuted and offended
          1. 0
            22 December 2015 08: 39
            Quote: atalef

            Fairy tales . it seems that in the remaining Ukraine they speak French and the Indians live there.
            surprisingly . but where is ps, where are the murders of the Russians? or do Russians live only in New Russia?

            These tales are very bloody, and also not tales. Russians still live all over the southeast, in Odessa, for example, where they burned them, chopped them with an ax, chopped them, pricked them, and didn’t hesitate in the room. It is clear that your colleagues will not kill everyone at once, they will gradually. Even during the years of simple independence in a previously calm time, mortality in it was such that it was more like genocide. In Russia, the same mortality figures over the years of devastation, but the population there is still larger.
            Well, judging by the flag (yours) - this is a question. which of us is forever persecuted and offended
            This is not my flag, but rather yours, although so far without the star of David laughing
        2. +4
          22 December 2015 08: 17
          Quote: Skifotavr
          That's just what Rosiii Donbass is needed (unlike its oligarchy) because it is a Russian land inhabited by Russian people.

          The argument, of course, is weighty. And in the practical plane? Growing into a depressed region is not the best thing you can think of during a crisis.
          1. 0
            22 December 2015 08: 42
            Quote: Zeppelin ml.
            Quote: Skifotavr
            That's just what Rosiii Donbass is needed (unlike its oligarchy) because it is a Russian land inhabited by Russian people.

            The argument, of course, is weighty. And in the practical plane? Growing into a depressed region is not the best thing you can think of during a crisis.

            And I don’t say what is urgently needed, but it’s not a fact that this "crisis" will resolve itself in an amicable way.
        3. +2
          22 December 2015 09: 07
          Magnificent anthracite (power) in the Donbass, coking coal deposits (metallurgy) in the Donbass, which are not numerous in Russia. So the nationalized mines of Donbass (preserved by miners in working condition, unlike mines in the Rostov region, which cannot be restored already), plus a loyal local population, will be able to recoup the initial investment with further restoration of the rest of the infrastructure.
          1. +1
            22 December 2015 09: 42
            Quote: Black Colonel
            So the nationalized mines of Donbass (preserved by miners in working condition, unlike mines in the Rostov region, which can no longer be restored), plus a loyal local population, will be able to recoup the initial investment with further restoration of the rest of the infrastructure.

            fantastic forecast. laughing Well, suppose re-privatization took place, Akhmet assets were squeezed out, rallies and celebrations took place, new owners scattered from banquets with vouchers in their pockets. Well, then what?
      3. +1
        22 December 2015 08: 34
        Quote: atalef
        LDNR of Russia is not needed in the form in which it is now.

        only as a buffer zone.
        1. -2
          22 December 2015 09: 17
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          Quote: atalef
          LDNR of Russia is not needed in the form in which it is now.

          only as a buffer zone.

          Pantry
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. +7
      22 December 2015 07: 43
      Quote: domokl
      Only now we will not pull the Donbass today. There are no such funds in the budget, and in the country in general


      And how did the Russian Empire "pull" Novorossia, the Caucasus, Asia, etc.? Probably, due to her bastards, I did not understand that the budget was not enough and-stretched. And yet, however, she firmly knew that Novorossiya is Russia's enormous wealth, not a burden.
      1. +1
        22 December 2015 07: 45
        Quote: Aleksander
        And how did the Russian Empire "pull" Novorossia, the Caucasus, Asia, etc.? Probably, due to her bastards, I did not understand that the budget was not enough and-stretched. And yet, however, she firmly knew that Novorossiya is Russia's enormous wealth, not a burden.

        Sorry, but these are slogans. in no way connected with today's realities.
        1. +3
          22 December 2015 08: 45
          Quote: atalef
          Sorry, but these are slogans. in no way connected with today's realities.

          I’m just touched how you worry about Russian realities.
          1. +2
            22 December 2015 09: 01
            Quote: Skifotavr
            Quote: atalef
            Sorry, but these are slogans. in no way connected with today's realities.

            I’m just touched how you worry about Russian realities.

            Because I (unlike you) a citizen of Russia
            1. +2
              22 December 2015 10: 06
              Quote: atalef
              Because I (unlike you) a citizen of Russia

              But I still could not understand what kind of flag you have so familiar laughing And where is the confidence that I do not have a Russian passport?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +1
                22 December 2015 11: 09
                Quote: Skifotavr
                But I still could not understand what kind of flag you have so familiar

                Well, not Ukrainian - how are you
                Quote: Skifotavr
                And where is the confidence that I do not have a Russian passport?

                logic, if you had Russian citizenship, you would hardly have reconciled with the Ukrainian flag in the avatar i.e. I would simply justifiably turn to the admins and ask to change the flag, I would receive either the USSR or the Russian one.
                maybe it didn’t happen, the simplest conclusion suggests itself: you are an ordinary citizen of Ukraine who hates the place of residence, but being an ordinary couch hero, unable to take a couple of bags and 20 bucks (as I did in 1993) and go alone to that country, which you consider yours.
                somehow like this.
                Or am I wrong?
                1. +1
                  22 December 2015 11: 45
                  Quote: atalef
                  Quote: Skifotavr
                  But I still could not understand what kind of flag you have so familiar

                  Well, not Ukrainian - how are you
                  Quote: Skifotavr
                  And where is the confidence that I do not have a Russian passport?

                  logic, if you had Russian citizenship, you would hardly have reconciled with the Ukrainian flag in the avatar i.e. I would simply justifiably turn to the admins and ask to change the flag, I would receive either the USSR or the Russian one.
                  maybe it didn’t happen, the simplest conclusion suggests itself: you are an ordinary citizen of Ukraine who hates the place of residence, but being an ordinary couch hero, unable to take a couple of bags and 20 bucks (as I did in 1993) and go alone to that country, which you consider yours.
                  somehow like this.
                  Or am I wrong?

                  Sucks with logic (or imagination). I deliberately did not change the flag so that people do not believe such as you that only banderlogs live / are on the territory of the state of Ukraine. And I am not going to leave forever from my land. And then you will drive us into the Arctic, and then we will disturb you there. wink However, almost all of our government has Israeli passports, they do not differ in love for this country, but they are not in a hurry to leave yet.
        2. +1
          22 December 2015 12: 24
          Quote: atalef
          Sorry, but these are slogans. in no way connected with today's realities.


          Sorry, but this is a long held data
          .
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        22 December 2015 08: 00
        Quote: Aleksander
        firmly knew that Novorossia was the great wealth of Russia, and not a burden.

        Well, yes .. The rally continues. Then we will remember where the Russian land came from? Let's move from slogans to a cold analysis of the situation.
        How much can you get from a Russian peasant veins for the sake of an idea? We will richer help, or even redeem. And today the task is a little different. We, though not openly, but declared war. Economic, sometimes explicit, ideological ... war on all fronts. And it’s a crime to spray not yet very large resources. It is a crime.
        I know that in response, give the argument that the people of Donbass will go to fight for Russia in the forefront. Only here is the question, maybe you should not fight at all? Maybe you should think?
        1. +4
          22 December 2015 08: 04
          Quote: domokl
          I believe that in response you will give the argument that the people of Donbass will go to fight for Russia in the forefront. But the question is, maybe you should not fight at all? Maybe you should think?

          Yes, they are for themselves. they don’t really go to war
          The most interesting . all these slogans -
          Defend Novrossia
          Beyond Syria Moscow
          tear America.
          never took their ass off the couch and hands from the clave and did not send their children there.
          1. +3
            22 December 2015 08: 11
            Quote: atalef
            never took their ass off the couch and hands from the clave and did not send their children there.

            sad And you can’t argue ... My child over there still remembers Abkhazia with a bullet in his leg ... It’s true that he goes there regularly to rest. There are a lot of friends and places are wonderful wink
          2. +2
            22 December 2015 11: 53
            Quote: atalef
            Quote: domokl
            I believe that in response you will give the argument that the people of Donbass will go to fight for Russia in the forefront. But the question is, maybe you should not fight at all? Maybe you should think?

            Yes, they are for themselves. they don’t really go to war
            The most interesting . all these slogans -
            Defend Novrossia
            Beyond Syria Moscow
            tear America.
            never took their ass off the couch and hands from the clave and did not send their children there.

            And this is said by someone who writes phenomenally on this site 24 hours a day at 10 comments per minute? "Citizen of Russia" you need a hero star! laughing
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 11: 55
              Quote: Skifotavr
              And it says the one who phenomenally writes on this site 24 hours a day at 10 comments per minute?

              Are you following me? 24 hours a day
              Quote: Skifotavr
              Citizen of Russia "you need a hero star!

              but I, unlike you, do not throw slogans.
              1. +3
                22 December 2015 12: 04
                Quote: atalef
                Quote: Skifotavr
                And it says the one who phenomenally writes on this site 24 hours a day at 10 comments per minute?

                Are you following me? 24 hours a day
                Quote: Skifotavr
                Citizen of Russia "you need a hero star!

                but I, unlike you, do not throw slogans.

                I do not follow, but sometimes I notice interesting things. And you too will throw slogans, but only such as you need. For example, Novorossiya Russia does not need nafig. And you dilute it with harmless jokes and common thoughts, to be at least a little popular here.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          3. -1
            22 December 2015 15: 19
            Quote: atalef
            The most interesting . all these slogans


            You cause sincere sympathy, if for you the most interesting
            is exactly that ....
        2. 0
          22 December 2015 08: 36
          Quote: domokl
          Then we will remember where the Russian land came from?

          and get to Kiev ... will we take? wink
          1. 0
            22 December 2015 08: 54
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and get to Kiev ... will we take?

            not yet. We wait MIKHANa.
            Cool mayor leave?
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 10: 26
              Quote: Zeppelin ml.
              Cool mayor leave?

              he also has German citizenship, so "drang nah veten" laughing
          2. +3
            22 December 2015 11: 58
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            Quote: domokl
            Then we will remember where the Russian land came from?

            and get to Kiev ... will we take? wink

            Kiev will not have to be taken, only his government will have to take it by the ass before it reaches the plane to Israel wink And maydaunas themselves will speed up.
          3. +2
            22 December 2015 13: 37
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and get to Kiev ... will we take?

            Well, I also hoped. But so far, even Slavyansk has not reached.
        3. +2
          22 December 2015 11: 44
          Quote: domokl
          ideological ... war

          Sorry, what ideology? two capitalist societies conflict on the basis of ideology, this is interesting :-)
        4. +1
          22 December 2015 11: 49
          Quote: domokl
          Quote: Aleksander
          firmly knew that Novorossia was the great wealth of Russia, and not a burden.

          Well, yes .. The rally continues. Then we will remember where the Russian land came from? Let's move from slogans to a cold analysis of the situation.
          How much can you get from a Russian peasant veins for the sake of an idea? We will richer help, or even redeem. And today the task is a little different. We, though not openly, but declared war. Economic, sometimes explicit, ideological ... war on all fronts. And it’s a crime to spray not yet very large resources. It is a crime.
          I know that in response, give the argument that the people of Donbass will go to fight for Russia in the forefront. Only here is the question, maybe you should not fight at all? Maybe you should think?

          After Syria, it sounds somehow not very convincing winked
        5. 0
          22 December 2015 13: 11
          Quote: domokl
          Well, yes .. The rally continues. Then we will remember where the Russian land came from? Let's move from slogans to a cold analysis of the situation.

          And what is the slogan? This is a statement of FACTS. A cold analysis of the situation and FORCE (!), I think, was necessary a year and a half ago, when from all the screens raced SLUNGES about the Russian world, the divided people, the Russian spring (not a word about them today!). It was the Russian spring, and not the Crimean one, invented six months ago. Also, analysis was needed when deciding on the introduction of troops and when the SLOZUNG sounded: "Let them try!" Then it remained either to fulfill the promised or to lose face, authority, trust, money ...
          And today, of course, analysis is needed, but has the competence of analysts changed? Judging by the approval at the press conference of the Medvedev government, no. And it is precisely from this policy that the Russian peasant does not increase his strength, and not from the fact that he supported New Russia, IMHO ......
        6. The comment was deleted.
    3. +3
      22 December 2015 08: 12
      Quote: domokl
      There is experience. We see in Chechnya.

      Chechen techniques won't work at $ 36 / bbl. Nobody is interested in the integration of Donbass. And not before him. The Great Novorossia project has long been out of action and has become something akin to the chimera of the "world revolution" - it is still heard, but already a fantasy.
      Quote: domokl
      In addition to the economy, I don’t see problems with the adaptation of Donbass.

      and in vain.
    4. +1
      22 December 2015 09: 13
      Quote: domokl
      There are no such funds in the budget, and indeed in the country in general. Tighten the belts again? probably still possible.

      Question: where did the billions received during the years of high oil prices go?
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 09: 53
        Quote: heal
        Question: where did the billions received during the years of high oil prices go?

        until nowhere, but soon we’ll eat them safely.
      2. +1
        22 December 2015 10: 28
        Quote: heal
        Question: where did the billions received during the years of high oil prices go?

        what about the Olympics, and what about football? well ... the mysterious "stabilization fund" ...
  7. +3
    22 December 2015 06: 49
    And why not concede part of the Ukrainian lands at cost? Those who are still crazy about the whole of Ukraine can not give. Yes, there is some kind of glovebox there, ruin is there, evil separatists with terrorists are entrenched there ...

    Nothing, we have the experience of putting things in order in such places. We agree. Convince. We will help.


    Yeah, while we "put things in order" there, the people will go down in complete financial ass. Our people.
    Yes, and if they were, this is the land we need, would have long been taken away.
  8. -2
    22 December 2015 07: 01
    Donbass could be taken for debts. And even the whole of New Russia.
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 07: 54
      Donbass will eventually depart. And it is unlikely to beat out debt with a fellow countryman. They have unofficially sold almost the majority of the land. It remains to adopt the law and legally Ukrainian land will become the property (so far on lease) of Western companies.
      1. +1
        22 December 2015 10: 41
        Quote: rotmistr60
        Donbass will eventually depart.

        where such confidence?
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 11: 18
          And from where do you have confidence in a single and indivisible Ukraine? Donbass is unlikely to want to be part of Ukraine. But what time will tell.
          1. +2
            22 December 2015 11: 37
            Quote: rotmistr60
            Donbass is unlikely to want to be part of Ukraine.

            and what is his alternative? Gaining the status of an unrecognized state with one single trading partner (gray schemes do not count)?
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 12: 02
              and what is his alternative?

              I think that they will somehow decide who and who to be.
              1. 0
                22 December 2015 13: 42
                Quote: rotmistr60
                I think that they will somehow decide who and who to be.

                I don’t know, I don’t know ... Do you?
  9. +5
    22 December 2015 07: 08
    Return a debt? - As if not so! The reaction of the Ukrainian government - "Only cowards pay off debts!" And what else did you want from Banderlog, they are like that notorious monkey, which is smart and beautiful, and so they rush about, knowing how else to fight off creditors. Relying on international courts, as the author of the article correctly noted, is absolutely not worth it - they (these courts) will never make a decision in favor of Russia, and even if they make such a decision, then with a lot of reservations that will practically neutralize this decision. To receive, instead of money, former Ukrainian lands (Ukrainian ones?) - I mean Donbass - is probably the best solution to the issue of debt repayment. But, firstly, Parsley and Rabbit will never agree to this, such a decision for them means political death, and secondly, even if the voice of reason prevails in Ukraine (it's already funny, isn't it?) And they themselves want to get rid of troubled lands with "separatists", then a formidable hail from Washington will immediately follow, which such a solution to the problem will not suit in any way, thirdly, the question arises whether Russia itself is ready to accept Novorossiya in the current difficult economic situation, to invest considerable funds in it for restoration destroyed during the so-called. ATO (essentially undeclared war) industry and infrastructure. One thing is clear - Ukraine itself will never return the debt to Russia, it has neither the money nor the main thing - the desire for this.
    I have the honor.
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 09: 20
      Quote: Alexander72
      The reaction of the Ukrainian government - "Only cowards pay off debts!"

      And what are they wrong with? Well, let the bold try to pick up.
  10. +2
    22 December 2015 07: 10
    Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus
    It’s a paradox, but I also think that they need to demand from them for our money territory at a price of 100000m2-one hundred bucks. And no deferrals or concessions!


    The most correct solution for dill today is!
    Because this shobla will not give up debt and everything else! They are specialists there, as they will clear and sell the whole country to the base, calmly dump them in mattress and no one will ever find them ...
    Therefore we must take the land! Like that:
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 08: 25
      Quote: press attache
      Like this:

      so full of fantasy.
  11. -2
    22 December 2015 07: 12
    Article plus.
    What on the proposal to take a fellow ...
    I suspect that everything has already been shared and sold out to us.
    You can also demand in exchange to officially recognize Crimea as Russian.
    Yes, I know that he is Russian. But Ukrainians then consider it occupied by Russia.
    In general, it’s better to take money and that's it. That there would be no talk then about
    that took advantage of the situation and squeezed at half the price.
    1. +3
      22 December 2015 07: 51
      Quote: Zomanus
      You can also demand in exchange to officially recognize Crimea as Russian.
      Yes, I know that he is Russian. But Ukrainians then consider it occupied by Russia.

      But willn’t it be fat to pay such money for the opinion of Ukrainians? Is it still interesting to someone in this world? Everyone has long recognized the fact and not a single sane politician will trample like a ram at a new gate in this matter. Even in the elections in their own country.
    2. +1
      22 December 2015 08: 06
      Quote: Zomanus
      You can also demand in exchange to officially recognize Crimea as Russian.

      you know, in politics there is not only an answer
      -Yes . No, there is also
      -irrelevant
      So today, the opinion of Ukraine in the Crimea-it does not matter
      Quote: Zomanus
      In general, it’s better to take money and that's it. That there would be no talk then about
      that took advantage of the situation and squeezed at half the price

      For . to take. from should someone give hi
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 09: 02
        Quote: atalef
        For . to take. from should someone give

        "I think that bargaining is not appropriate here .." (c) We take money that no one will give!
        Some shopkeepers at VO detected - "we are changing the debt for the recognition of Crimea and Donbass in a ratio of 70 to 30!" I also liked the commentator, who suggested using the tribune of arbitration as a Leninist bogonevich. It is curious that the number of "gas blackmailers" and gas cutoffs has decreased)
    3. +2
      22 December 2015 09: 57
      Quote: Zomanus
      What on the proposal to take a fellow ...

      There is more than enough of their land in Russia, it is necessary to restore order and create Great Russia, as it happens they themselves will come.
      As for the debt, it is necessary to act according to world practice, without statements about the unfairness of the court, following the results of the court it will be possible to operate with your debts, to give or not to give, referring to the court decision in Ukraine.
  12. +1
    22 December 2015 07: 15
    Take from them what the Communists gave them. Cutting from Little Russia after the revolution. And let the rest of the rest of the territory continue.
    1. +4
      22 December 2015 09: 05
      Quote: Born in the USSR
      Take from them what the Communists gave them. Cutting from Little Russia after the revolution.

      interestingly. Through a court or referendum? Or tank wedges? Why is this idle talk?
    2. +1
      22 December 2015 13: 42
      Quote: Born in the USSR
      Take from them what the Communists gave them.

      The Communists gave it. So, logically, the Communists should take it. And if you take what was donated by someone, it’s a crime laughing
  13. +3
    22 December 2015 07: 16
    The court is needed as a tribune.
    From the rostrum to the whole world it will be confirmed that Ukraine is bankrupt, that there is no money, that this is a state with which it is impossible to deal. The reputation is worth a lot.
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 07: 52
      Quote: Cap.Morgan
      The court is needed as a tribune.

      exactly. Indeed, the reputation is much more expensive than the very 3 lard. And we see this in relation to Russia of the so-called third countries.
    2. +2
      22 December 2015 07: 59
      Quote: Cap.Morgan
      The court is needed as a tribune.
      From the rostrum to the whole world it will be confirmed that Ukraine is bankrupt, that there is no money, that this is a state with which it is impossible to deal. The reputation is worth a lot.

      child reasoning
      Russia defaulted twice, Argentina, Brazil, etc.
      why default is bad - everyone knows. few write. that default is neither the death of the state and default gives new opportunities to the country. how it will manage is a question. but it looks something like this
      Why is default good?

      1. Typically, default occurs at a time when the state has accumulated debt beyond measure. The payment of both the main part of the debt and the interest on them is a huge part of the state budget. The tasks necessary for the existence of the country are simply not paid. In this case, the default allows you to direct funds that previously went abroad to solve internal problems that suffer from underfunding.

      2. Default is a means of increasing the competitiveness of the economy and domestic production. Since people receive their salaries in depreciated currencies, and they have to buy goods for the same money, a cheaper product is produced for an external buyer. Both due to the fall in the cost of labor, and due to the cheapening of other resources of domestic production. The cost of goods is one of the most important competitive advantages. So, orders are growing, previously unused capacities are being used, new jobs are being created. It turns out a certain China on a small scale.

      3. Default restructures the entire economy of the state. In conditions of isolation from external financing and imports, the state reaches a safe level of functioning, when it is domestic consumption and financing sources that are prevailing. To do this at normal times is often very difficult, and sometimes impossible.

      4. Burst financial bubbles. In the conditions of a catastrophic fall in the financial sphere, the inflated spheres of the economy become inoperative. The role of real production and real goods is growing. In a bloated economy, a situation often arises when the plant’s shares are much less than its real value. Default default destroys opportunities for financial distortions, and real values ​​return their real value.

      5. The state has a real opportunity to negotiate with creditors to reduce the amount of debt. Often due to the accumulated interest, it grows several times! In the condition of a declared default, lenders often go to a meeting, seeking to get their money back. Sometimes this becomes an outlet for all parties, since often only the presence of such a financial force majeure as default can serve as a legal basis for the lender to negotiate to reduce debt.
      1. Riv
        0
        22 December 2015 09: 07
        And who said that Ukraine will be bad? Ukrainians will live even shitty. And Petka Waltzman certainly still will.

        Incidentally, the 1998 Russian default was fundamentally different. T-bills were originally a financial pyramid and the state then pretty welded. Close bankers, too, of course.
      2. 0
        22 December 2015 09: 20
        Quote: atalef
        Russia defaulted twice, Argentina, Brazil, etc.

        Ecuador in 2008. This despite the fact that his foreign liabilities amounted to only 21% of GDP. Argentina has 155%. I don’t understand why the hoaxes are pushing if, when they declared bankruptcy, the IMF guaranteed them continued lending. There would be a very curious precedent laughing Then Xoxlandia would definitely fit into the world history of finance as some kind of "financial incident"
      3. 0
        22 December 2015 13: 45
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        The court is needed as a tribune.
        From the rostrum to the whole world will be

        child reasoning


        why? Plus the shoe and the corresponding rhetoric) How is it ... "We will bury you!"
        not deTski ..
    3. +1
      22 December 2015 11: 48
      Quote: Cap.Morgan
      tribunes to the whole world will be confirmed that Ukraine is bankrupt, that there is no money, that this is a state that cannot be dealt with. The reputation is worth a lot.

      Kyrgyzstan at one time was recognized by the UN as a niche country, and nothing, even in some places they accepted
  14. +2
    22 December 2015 07: 46
    Our government will have to learn one simple thing, don’t lend anything to anyone and then there will be no such problems, it would be better if three billion were allocated for the construction of new schools, kindergartens, factories, it would be useful, otherwise Russia would build the Tureks for its own 20 billion The nuclear power plant, it gives Ukraine money, we are so rich, the government does not know where to give the money, then distribute it to each citizen of the Russian Federation, we ourselves will find use for them.
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 09: 23
      Quote: cobalt
      Our government needs to learn one simple thing, not to lend anything to anyone, and then there will not be such problems

      But what about Putin’s megalomania?

      Quote: cobalt
      three billion would be better spent on the construction of new schools, kindergartens, factories, it would be useful, if Russia builds nuclear power plants for its own 20 billion, then it gives Ukraine money, we are so rich, the government does not know where to give the money, then give it to every citizen of the Russian Federation , we will find them to use.

      Well, the Russian rulers are incapable of this, they can only pull the pipes, lower the ruble (citing the myth of profitability for the economy, yes profitability, if the industry was at the level of German or Japanese, and not raw materials, as it is now), raise prices yes invent new taxes and fees.
  15. 0
    22 December 2015 07: 49
    By court order, any funds allocated to the debtor may be withdrawn, including IMF loans! So the money back. Us. And they will not receive them. This may be the situation.
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 08: 13
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      By court order, any funds allocated to the debtor may be withdrawn, including IMF loans!

      Did you come up with it now?
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      so that the money back. Us. And they will not receive them. This may be the situation.

      can not be.
      as long as the case is in court, nothing can happen at all.
      wherein . Ukraine has not defaulted on the country. there is a default on the Russian loan - this is a slightly different compote.
      Yes, provided that this debt is recognized as sovereign.
      Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - who considered this option?
      1. +1
        22 December 2015 09: 25
        Quote: atalef
        Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - who considered this option?

        And they will act like that. Maybe something else will come up.
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 10: 03
          Quote: heal
          Quote: atalef
          Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - who considered this option?

          And they will act like that. Maybe something else will come up.

          nothing else needs to be invented. Xoxl with numbers of lost profits at the ready, our lawsuit will be broken. Even if the court reduces the order declared by Yats. Moreover, if we take into account the traditions of the arbitration court mentioned by the author to make decisions ex aeque et bono, then in general the prospect seems doubtful
          1. 0
            22 December 2015 12: 39
            Quote: Zeppelin ml.
            Quote: heal
            Quote: atalef
            Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - who considered this option?

            And they will act like that. Maybe something else will come up.

            nothing else needs to be invented. Xoxl with numbers of lost profits at the ready, our lawsuit will be broken. Even if the court reduces the order declared by Yats. Moreover, if we take into account the traditions of the arbitration court mentioned by the author to make decisions ex aeque et bono, then in general the prospect seems doubtful

            You’ve famously placed everything in the world. laughing The sovereign debt recovery court is one thing, and the occupation court is another. Even if some Hague court demands the return of an independent Crimea, Russia will simply send it away. This is not a case for you under Yushchenko, who, before considering the Romanian lawsuit in the case of the Snake Island and the sea shelf before the international court, stated that she would unconditionally agree with any decision. Naturally, this court made a contradictory and illegal decision that the island belongs to Ukraine, and the shelf around it belongs to Romania.
            1. -1
              22 December 2015 12: 48
              Quote: Skifotavr
              and the court of occupation is completely different.

              and I didn’t even talk about occupation, as a matter of consideration in court. It's about the economic consequences. And xoxly drag a whole bunch of calculations to the court, do not hesitate. Even if half of them are considered indirect.
              1. -1
                22 December 2015 14: 00
                I have no doubts that they will bring to court all sorts of crap such as certificates of "green men", fragments of "mines of the Russian occupiers", pieces of skin from "planes shot down by them", and a bunch of information. I doubt they won't disgrace themselves as usual.
                1. +1
                  22 December 2015 14: 03
                  Quote: Skifotavr
                  to the court all kinds of crap such as certificates of "green men", fragments of "mines of the Russian occupiers", pieces of skin of "planes shot down by them"

                  Yes, come on, do not distort. You perfectly understood what I was talking about. Although, maybe not ...
                  1. +1
                    22 December 2015 14: 37
                    I didn’t distort, but only a little prettified (although maybe not laughing ), and I think that you also understood me. The sovereign debt of Ukraine to the Crimea, Donbass or something else is not relevant.
      2. +2
        22 December 2015 10: 51
        Quote: atalef
        Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - who considered this option?

        These are just claims of the current Ukrainian authorities.
        She would prove nothing if she could have proven it long ago.
        Russia may also file applications for the occupation of Novorossia, may refer to the illegality of the current government through a coup, if this was a revolution then Ukraine is therefore a different country than the one before the revolution, there are a lot of nuances for world jurisprudence and it will last forever .
        From the point of view of law, the detachment of Crimea is more legitimate than the current leadership of Ukraine coming to power, I’m not sure, but they still haven’t even tweaked the constitution for themselves.
        1. +3
          22 December 2015 11: 54
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Russia may also file applications for the occupation of Novorossia, may refer to the illegality of the current government through a coup, if this was a revolution then Ukraine is therefore a different country than the one before the revolution, there are a lot of nuances for world jurisprudence and it will last forever .

          Who next will file a lawsuit stating that the abolition of the USSR was illegal, because it was contrary to the results of the referendum, thus both the Russian Federation and Ukraine are a single country, etc. etc?:-)
        2. +1
          22 December 2015 12: 16
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Russia may also apply for the occupation of Novorosia

          Now it was especially funny.
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          may refer to the illegality of the current government through a coup

          good too. In fact, the Russian Federation recognized the power in Ukraine. Let us refer to the fact that the Guarantor had a temperature at this time and take the confession back?
      3. +1
        22 December 2015 11: 45
        Quote: atalef
        Ukraine will prove in court (and I think no one doubts about this) that Russia is an occupying country and during the occupation of Crimea Ukraine lost - as much + as much - someone considered this option

        Neither proves ever. This is a matter of a separate court. At the court of default, this issue will not even go in the background. It doesn’t matter to everyone - Crimea or not Crimea. There is a fact - the impossibility of paying money. What is it due to - everything in FIG. Maximum - sue and open a separate case. That's all.
        1. +1
          22 December 2015 12: 08
          Quote: Stena
          Neither proves ever. This is a matter of a separate court. In court of default, this issue does not even go in the background

          why?

          Quote: Stena
          There is a fact - the impossibility of paying money. What is it due to - everything in FIG.

          Yes ? strange, suppose. you were given a loan, then the lender came and cut your assets and funds. and then demanded to pay the debt (this is an example)
          and you think that your arguments will not be accepted in court?
          Quote: Stena
          Maximum - sue and open a separate case. That's all.

          Sure ?
          1. +2
            22 December 2015 12: 24
            Quote: atalef
            Sure ?

            300% sure. Have you ever been as a defendant in court?
            That’s where the court doesn’t care at all - why you can’t pay. Consider a specific case - no payment, that's all. And why did this happen - to everyone to the lamp. They say - these are your problems - open a separate business - we will sort it out. Here the situation is similar. Only a larger scale.
            It is physically impossible to prove that Russia - the occupier - how do you imagine this? Crimea became part of Russia absolutely legally. No one canceled the results of the referendum. Therefore, there are 0 chances, 0 tenths.
            1. +1
              22 December 2015 12: 36
              Quote: Stena
              300% sure. Have you ever been as a defendant in court?

              In small claims, sued the insurance company - won
              Quote: Stena
              That’s where the court doesn’t care at all - why you can’t pay. Consider a specific case

              Of course, therefore (although he was right. 100% in my opinion). got less than thought
              Quote: Stena
              And why did this happen - to everyone to the lamp. They say - these are your problems - open a separate business - we will sort it out. Here the situation is similar. Only a larger scale.

              Tales
              Quote: Stena
              It is physically impossible to prove that Russia - the occupier - how do you imagine this? Crimea became part of Russia absolutely legally. No one canceled the results of the referendum. Therefore, there are 0 chances, 0 tenths.

              You will not tell this to the Basmanny Court, but to international arbitration.
              Give me a list of countries (and especially the UN) that have recognized this legal basis, then we'll talk.
              1. -1
                22 December 2015 19: 58
                Quote: atalef
                Give me a list of countries (and especially the UN) that have recognized this legal basis, then we'll talk.

                This is already a separate claim - Ukrainians will file it - they have cards in their hands - let them prove that it is illegal. And what - the court now operates with the concepts of "who has more"? What difference does it make - which countries have recognized - it is important that actions comply with the rule of law. But here - no nagging will arise - the autonomies have the right to choose. The choice was made. Further - here is such a huge Point.
            2. 0
              22 December 2015 12: 36
              Quote: Stena
              300% sure. Have you ever been as a defendant in court?

              In small claims, sued the insurance company - won
              Quote: Stena
              That’s where the court doesn’t care at all - why you can’t pay. Consider a specific case

              Of course, therefore (although he was right. 100% in my opinion). got less than thought
              Quote: Stena
              And why did this happen - to everyone to the lamp. They say - these are your problems - open a separate business - we will sort it out. Here the situation is similar. Only a larger scale.

              Tales
              Quote: Stena
              It is physically impossible to prove that Russia - the occupier - how do you imagine this? Crimea became part of Russia absolutely legally. No one canceled the results of the referendum. Therefore, there are 0 chances, 0 tenths.

              You will not tell this to the Basmanny Court, but to international arbitration.
              Give me a list of countries (and especially the UN) that have recognized this legal basis, then we'll talk.
              1. +4
                22 December 2015 14: 13
                Quote: atalef
                Give me a list of countries (and especially the UN) that have recognized this legal basis


                Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Afghanistan, Argentina, Vietnam, Ghana, Mongolia, Abkhaz
                Oia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, the Dniester Moldavian Republic, Uganda, Catalonia (Spain).

                It's a shame: Ghana recognized the referendum, but neighboring Côte d'Ivoire did not. The mysterious people of Akana ...
  16. +2
    22 December 2015 07: 59

    And why not concede at cost part of the Ukrainian lands?


    The question is of course interesting. But ukrokhunta will not go for it. She will die herself, but will not. Here it is necessary to take measures under the Law, but harsh.
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 10: 44
      Quote: aszzz888

      And why not concede at cost part of the Ukrainian lands?


      The question is certainly interesting.

      except in terms of praying him in the forum. The practical essential meaning in it is not one iota.
  17. 0
    22 December 2015 08: 14
    You can include in the margin on gas, sex is also a good idea.
  18. 0
    22 December 2015 08: 38
    Probably no one seriously thought that Ukraine would repay the debt. And about the fact that Russia will not pull the Donbass, is it not pulling now?
  19. 0
    22 December 2015 09: 05
    Quote: atalef
    the prospect of fucking Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk is unattractive.

    Yeah ... Hanging them "to dry" is a completely different calico.
  20. +1
    22 December 2015 09: 10
    It is necessary to systematically and purposefully shoot all American and European representatives on the outskirts. There is nothing to bar the land of our ancestors by the presence on it of our enemies, geeks.
    Mord fifty to destroy and no more "adviser" will not cross the border, and then we'll see how to deal with the patients further and how to treat.

    The West, led by the empire of lies, should be punished harshly, painfully and without punishment for its actions on our outskirtsзcompromise. Punished so that for millennia he remembered that even looking negatively in the direction of the Russians is dangerous, not to mention throwing a trick on them.
  21. 0
    22 December 2015 09: 22
    Ukrainians again changed the main record. Was - Russia, like, MANDATED to restructure on the terms of commercial creditors. Now we’ve returned to the old record - you don’t have to give it back, because it is Yanukovych’s personal duty, in the form of a bribe. laughing
  22. +1
    22 December 2015 10: 05
    The article is about nothing! In general, about nothing, such a bold hint that Euro-Khokhlam would not be bad to pay for this debt by the territory. It is a pity in the article there is no answer how to take this territory. Well, or in general to repay the debt.
    And here, Prime Minister Medvedev is starting to implement a plan for knocking out this debt.
    Well, like any Medvedev’s plan, this is as secret and as effective)))
    Everyone has already scored a long time ago for this debt and the West with its IMF and, moreover, Euro-crests. A trial will last for years, if not decades. The only thing that this duty can justify some kind of action and all. Probably when this money was given, they thought that the IMF would not dare to rewrite the rules, but something went wrong. How will it affect without the return loss of this treshka, I think that no matter what the mass of funds leaving the hill is just a drop in the ocean, the money floating away from us is a negligible loss.
  23. +1
    22 December 2015 10: 10
    They will not repay this debt ever. For no reason they staged a coup.
    They will cut fat, hide, then run away. New scammers entering power through the next Maidan will shout about a humanitarian catastrophe, bring everything to the runaways. And again they’ll file, hide, run away.
    Only the Donbass can really stop this big top, but they have few resources. So alas and ah.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. +1
    22 December 2015 11: 45
    Quote: Dimon-chik-79
    Everyone has already scored for a long time on this debt and the West with its IMF and, moreover, Euro-crests. A trial will last for years, if not decades.

    You are mistaken. Before broadcasting in such a way, at least get to the bottom of the issue. Here is a worthy answer of a knowledgeable person to such fabrications.
  26. 0
    22 December 2015 11: 58
    What will we receive Ukrainian debt?

    Yes, in what way does Kiev receive loans, and so it will repay ... And first, Ukraine will begin to repay its debts from Russia, and then it’s going to cling to the rest of the creditors ...
  27. -1
    22 December 2015 12: 49
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: domokl
    In general, the proposal is certainly interesting. Only now we won’t pull today Donbass

    Good morning, Sasha.
    Well, you understand very well that LDNR of Russia is not needed in the form in which it is now.
    It has already turned into a suitcase without a handle - it’s a pity to throw it away, it’s hard to drag it

    what nonsense are you writing. these areas 5 such as they themselves will provide. besides do not compare Ukrainians hard workers with Russians, lazy to the point of horror, but kind people!)
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 13: 33
      Quote: GESTAPO
      do not compare Ukrainians hard workers with Russians, lazy to the point of horror

      xoxol-hard worker with the nickname "Gestapo" is, of course, a gem. laughing "The hand is tired of knocking on each other ..."
      1. +1
        22 December 2015 15: 24
        Quote: Zeppelin ml.

        The hand is tired of knocking on each other ... "

        Do not think that I am a crest, but unfortunately both the Russians and the Belarusians also have such a disaster ...
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 15: 51
          Quote: Skifotavr
          Quote: Zeppelin ml.

          The hand is tired of knocking on each other ... "

          Do not think that I am a crest, but unfortunately both the Russians and the Belarusians also have such a disaster ...

          I do not deny. The national list can be continued.
          1. -1
            22 December 2015 16: 14
            And that is true.
    2. 0
      22 December 2015 13: 38
      Quote: GESTAPO
      besides do not compare Ukrainians hard workers with Russians, terribly lazy, but kind people!

      Well, well, hard workers ... laughing

      They sleep for a long time, eat at the workplace and are afraid to express their opinion. So the working days of office workers in Kiev are described by HR agency employees and - with a fresh eye - the foreigners working here.


      Ukrainians are passive egoists who do not trust each other and neglect social interests to please family and the interests of loved ones, according to research by Sofia (SOFIA Center for Social Research).
  28. 0
    22 December 2015 13: 04
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    he also has German citizenship, so "drang nah is known" laughing

    Even in my opinion there are two more letters in the word "nah".
  29. 0
    22 December 2015 13: 45
    How many comments from those wishing for "more land" - 100% future planters wrote fellow
    But in fact - they won’t give us land, but we DO NOT NEED it ourselves from the very beginning.
    They will not give us money either - but for our economy it is still a penny, there is a question of the principle that "we are dynamited."
    I think - they will just block the pipe + "sanctions" and they will pig their own and eat them with chokolodki.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Maz
    +2
    22 December 2015 14: 47
    Take in kind: from Mariupol to Tiraspol
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 17: 47
      Quote: Maz
      Take in kind: from Mariupol to Tiraspol

      and chicks from FEMEN, yeah ...
  32. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 10
    In general, it seems to me that Putin was not going to receive this money back (by lending it, he was SURE that he had given it as a gift). These 3 mlr. used in politics by our President, as something other than just money (albeit not small).
    There are many options.
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 21: 28
      The simplest and most obvious option - they took and drank (our and Khokhlyat elites). Everything as usual.
  33. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 29
    Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, being captured below the waist, spoke in Russian. So that's where he has the button!
  34. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 31
    And why not concede at cost part of the Ukrainian lands?

    And the president is a drunk, and he made the same country. Everything has already been sold, and what is not sold has been stolen and handed over in color. Nobody gives in debt anymore, it has also become hard to steal from the neighbors - everyone is on guard. For Christ's sake, the "fufyrik" is no longer served - faces at the pharmacy have become familiar. It remains only to sell the apartment-land and completely turn into a homeless person. Only here is the question - she was "killed" in the trash and mutant bedbugs along with cockroaches grew immeasurably. Who needs it so much, one sanitation will cost more.
  35. sir
    +1
    22 December 2015 16: 00
    and I have another proposal. many Ukrainians work in Russia, well, let them pay the debt for their homeland. For example, 10 percent of the salary until full repayment am
  36. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 48
    to talk about the return of debts, it will be necessary with the new government of Ukraine capable of dialogue .... what is available now is illiquid .... the territory is certainly good, but economically, while it is not profitable .... everything will have to be rebuilt (not in the sense of construction .... although about what territories to talk about ....) from scratch ..... but also (even not so small) money, against the backdrop of global crises, it’s also .... , more profitable, change their government .... enter into long-term contracts .... and receive, taking into account indexation .... but this is my personal opinion ....
  37. 0
    22 December 2015 17: 45
    "And here Prime Minister Medvedev is starting to implement a plan to knock out this debt."
    Medvedev must understand that this is his last chance for the presidency in 2022, and he is not so popular anyway and suffer him because of Putin!
  38. 0
    22 December 2015 19: 20
    Well of course! Paramogli to Moscow! Yata sit at the dupe! Putin cries and tears his hair there.
    After all, Ukraine, the center of the universe!
    And Ukrainians sacredly believe that this IMF decision was made in solidarity with them and solely for their sake!

    The fact that this would happen was clear a long time ago. Moscow had been waiting for this decision for a very long time. And it was worth paying 3 lard. The whole joke is that by this decision, the IMF destroyed all the rules for the existence of the world financial system, more precisely the CREDIT-financial system, which was based on the main principle - debts must be repaid and the creditor must be sure that his debts will be repaid. The first countries to use the "precedent" will be Greece, Spain, Portugal, Iceland, etc. But the real explosion will happen when the main debtor on the planet also decides to take advantage of this precedent. Let me remind you that the United States needs 19 trillion ...
  39. +1
    22 December 2015 20: 52
    1) They will not pay us.
    2) What is three yards when we are billed for 50 (and what’s funny, our elites will pay but out of people's pocket)
    4) Who are the judges?
    5) Why did they recognize the decisions of foreign courts?
    6) Who is to blame and who will answer?
    _________________________
    Summary: bent and make fun.
  40. 0
    22 December 2015 23: 29
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    Quote: atalef
    LDNR of Russia is not needed in the form in which it is now.

    only as a buffer zone.

    Do you understand what a buffer zone is? This is an empty territory. For Ukraine, this is not acceptable, even if put under agricultural land, then they must belong to someone. stop
  41. 0
    23 December 2015 05: 55
    it is naive to think so, but Russia will still not receive this money in the foreseeable future, even if there is an appropriate decision of international arbitration, but the fact that Russia will receive permanent hemorrhoids on its borders, requiring constant attention and resources, is a fact, in fact, the Yankees on This is calculated, and I will not be surprised if the military comes to power in Ukraine on New Year's Eve, of course this will not fundamentally change the situation, especially economically, but the "fun" with weapons will probably continue ...