Military Review

New separatism of Donbass?

132
I’ll just say that this material is the result of a conversation with only three representatives of Donbass. But since the arguments given in the conversations seemed rather weighty to me, I decided to convey them to the readers.


New separatism of Donbass?


Speaking today about Donbass, we mean something homogeneous and rather integral. However, this is not the case. Like any education, Donbass is essentially heterogeneous. I use the term "Donbass" because the territorial essence of the DNI or the LC is not important here. The problems are the same.

Three engineers became my interlocutors. Two work (if I may say so) in factories, the third - in the mining industry. Moreover, the miner and the metalworker managed to make war last year. So blame them for some "ukrosty" language does not turn. And judge for yourself, no politics, pure economics.

The conclusion that the interlocutors actually “threw out” me was stunned even at the first moment.

Donbas without Ukraine can not survive.

Somewhat flustered, I did not immediately begin to object (and that was the objection), because I came to the following arguments.

1. Coal industry.

Here everything is more or less even, that is, coal is where and to whom to mine. But the question of sales remains open. By a political decision, Donbass does not send more coal to Ukraine, which, by the way, is quite welcome by residents. Nevertheless, this is a matter of prime importance, because the fact that in Ukraine this winter will freeze slightly will not feed the miners.

The population of the non-gasified areas of Donbass (and not gasified around 60%), using coal, has never bought it from the state. This way the devil knows since what times. Why buy for 300 uah, if you can buy for 100? For those who exploit the cops? And today the situation has not changed a single gram.

Yes, some of the coal goes to power plants. The rest - the complete lack of perspective. And in this respect no one even looks at Russia, for there their coal ... in bulk.

Donbass anthracite is very well processed into coke. Accordingly, it is possible to provide their enterprises for work. And here begins the point 2.

2. Steelmaking industry.

Foundry in the Donbass know for a long time. Even the ancient ukry dug the sea with shovels, iron or bronze for which they made in the Donbass.

But today, most of the casters are also standing.

The reason is simple: no raw materials. Yes, coke for smelting at least heaps. But more ore is required. Ore no. The economic blockade of the Donbass, which had begun by Ukraine, cut even those deliveries that went according to “agreements” and “schemes”.

Initially, the enterprises of Donbass were focused on the iron ore of the Krivoy Rog basin (Kryvbas) and, accordingly, to date, they turned out to be simply cut off.

Further. Ore is half an orange. Steel can not be smelted without fluxes. Centers for the production of fluxes for metallurgy - Nikopol and Zaporozhye. And here, too, everything is clear.

Donbass industry is not worth it because of the destruction or not wanting to work. On the contrary, there are enough people. Donbass can be reproached with many oddities, but to say that only lazy people live there, dreaming of even sitting on a perch with a parallel use of a humanitarian stew - this needs to be highly Ukrainianized. Works there want and can work.

The industrial army of Donbass is defeated not because there is no fighting spirit. And because of the lack of ammunition and shells.

But even if, hypothetically, to break through this blockade in some place, the next point immediately arises.

3. Logistics.

Logistics is the cornerstone of any industry. Bringing raw materials and taking products is a significant process, this is understandable.

In today's realities of Donbass, there is no logistics. Difficulties with the delivery of raw materials have already been described, problems with the export of finished products ahead.

To begin with, in the industry such as metallurgy, motor transport is not considered at all. Not those volumes, not that loading capacity. Accordingly - either the railway or the sea route.

Railways in the Donbass do not actually function, just keep silent about the sea routes. They stayed where? That's right, in Mariupol. It seems that last year’s failed capture of Mariupol could theoretically solve this problem, but only theoretically.

In fact, the capture of Mariupol almost nothing would have brought to the cash office of Donbass. Moreover, Ukrainian Mariupol, oddly enough, brings something.

The fact is that Ukraine exports a lot of metal to the countries of Asia and Turkey. And in manganese and nickel in general in the lead. But. This Ukraine exports Ukrainian goods. It is not a secret that export-import operations are executed in accordance with international norms and requirements. Neither the DNR nor the LNR are included in the TN VED system, as there are none.

That is, to sell the products of Donbass factories in the same China or Thailand, an international status is needed, which, alas, no. Or, at least, the recognition of the same DNI or LC Thailand. And why Thailand, I ask, is this hemorrhoids, if it buys everything pretty well in Ukraine?

That is why Akhmetov's "schemes" work. And the metal, made with great difficulty in the Donbass, leaves the Ukrainian Mariupol according to the documents of Ukraine, as produced in Ukrainian enterprises. Where does the money go? That's right, to Kiev. Return is the same as humanitarian aid from Akhmetov ... a penny, compared to what he has. Well, Kiev is not mad.

The situation is unpleasant. On the one hand, the Donbass industry is being killed by the Kiev junta with the help of the blockade, on the other hand, Akhmetov is being plundered. But from Akhmetov at least something yes falls. And there is no lumen in perspective.

For the sake of experiment, my interlocutors threw a scheme of interaction with Russia.

Yes, it is possible to provide the enterprises of Donbass with ore from the KMA. Questions only delivery in volumes necessary to ensure the normal operation of the plants.

Yes, it is possible to provide fluxes and everything you need to melt.

Yes, it is possible to take everything to Russia by the same railway.

And how much will it cost in the end? The question is even somewhat tactless. It is clear that the price will be exorbitant, if we proceed from transportation costs. Even if this metal is needed, for example, for the ship repair enterprises of the Crimea. It is necessary to drag up to the only Russian cargo port on the Black Sea. Before Novorossiysk ...

Dead end? Maybe.

Another question that no one really was looking for a way out of this impasse. And meanwhile, the enterprises stop, and the qualified personnel acquired over the years begins to look for another life. Not easy and beautiful, but just life.

I already gave out statistics that the war in the Donbass is occupied by 1 people from 50. One of 50 doesn’t bother much about tomorrow afternoon. And the rest? The rest, alas, forced.

Patriotism and the desire to wait for a brighter future are good when you live today and not survive. Yes, it's nice when not bombed, when every day does not bring regular shelling. But this is not life. This is just survival.

Tomorrow’s day brings no prospects, in the opinion of my interlocutors.

“We go to work like a war. Last year, we defended us against ukrov, in this we again defend ourselves, but from those who want to take the equipment for scrap,” one of the interlocutors told me so.

“We are all here as one for the republic. But we understand that today we don’t need a republic at all. There’s no way for us to provide materials and work. There’s no way to sell the result of our work and provide us materially. Why then are we here?”

“Donbass cannot survive without Ukraine. At one time, we were too much tied up in such a knot that we couldn’t bend it to anyone. Ukraine needs us, and Ukraine needs us. This is the alignment. We need to somehow agree then save. "

Opinion, contrary to what we used to see and hear from there. But the opinion is already lived and confident people. An opinion that is impossible not to heed. This is not a new separatism wishing to return the Donbass in the arms of Ukraine. This is the opinion of people who can, and most importantly, want their work to benefit. No matter who, DNI, LC, New Russia, Donbas.

Those wishing to fish and not receive it as an aid.
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  1. oldav
    oldav 16 December 2015 06: 34
    24
    Be patient, there is still no turning back. It’s like a wife who leaves home to return to her monster husband and drunk. Soon the outskirts themselves will fall apart. Unite with Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhya. You will have your own industry, access to the sea and markets.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 16 December 2015 09: 20
      +4
      Soon the outskirts themselves will fall apart.
      They say there is such a person who is talented in foreign policy. So he does everything. so that Krajina would not fall apart, even when the lights were turned off in the Crimea, on his personal order, they drove Russian coal to Krajina.
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 16 December 2015 09: 28
        15
        Quote: Gardamir
        Soon the outskirts themselves will fall apart.
        They say there is such a person who is talented in foreign policy. So he does everything. so that Krajina would not fall apart, even when the lights were turned off in the Crimea, on his personal order, they drove Russian coal to Krajina.

        It is necessary that Ukraine very carefully fall apart.

        Let’s imagine an apocalyptic scenario - winter, the junta has finished the power system, there is no electricity in the cities, and as a result - there is no heating and water, the sewage system does not work. By the way, in the winter in Ukraine it is also quite cool - beyond the threshold of survival without warm rooms. Presented?

        Now guess - where will the order of 20000000 (twenty MILLION) refugees from cities run? Most go to Russia. And this option, in any case, does not suit Russia — at least let them go — at least not let them go. Both options are bad.
        It is cheaper to give coal for free than to get such at the border. And the United States understands this very well, which is typical ...

        So the person you wrote about is a very smart person. Far-sighted. It is not so easy to take it "weakly" ...
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 16 December 2015 10: 14
          +2
          Visionary.
          Where he looked 5 years ago. 10 years. And why should Krajina fall apart?
        2. Pavel Koltunov
          Pavel Koltunov 16 December 2015 12: 16
          -2
          You write.
          /// ... where will the order of 20000000 (twenty MILLION) refugees from cities run? \\\

          Do not worry. They won’t run anywhere. These are not Africans. To work - yes, they will come to Russia in Europe or where else. Over the 20 years of capitalism in Ukraine, as in Russia, people quickly adapted to the situation. Everyone will feed himself a piece of land on which he lives + help from the Russian Federation. In cities it’s more difficult, but they won’t run either. We recall the collectivization and some other experience of the USSR. Brains will turn on. I think Putin has already strained our oligarchs.
          1. Mik13
            Mik13 16 December 2015 13: 29
            +4
            Quote: Pavel Koltunov
            You write.
            /// ... where will the order of 20000000 (twenty MILLION) refugees from cities run? \\\

            Do not worry. They won’t run anywhere. These are not Africans. To work - yes, they will come to Russia in Europe or where else. Over the 20 years of capitalism in Ukraine, as in Russia, people quickly adapted to the situation. Everyone will feed himself a piece of land on which he lives + help from the Russian Federation. In cities it’s more difficult, but they won’t run either. We recall the collectivization and some other experience of the USSR. Brains will turn on. I think Putin has already strained our oligarchs.


            The problem is that it is impossible to survive in the city if the urban infrastructure does not work. For example, water supply. And in winter - also heating.
            This is not a private house, which can be heated with wood. The city - a millionaire cannot be heated with firewood. There aren’t enough trees. So the urban population will be forced to become refugees in such a situation - this is a matter of physical survival.
        3. S_last
          S_last 16 December 2015 13: 32
          +5
          You have an interesting logic. Maybe we’ll all sit down and don’t do anything, let the whole world feed us, otherwise we’ll be broken by all 146 millions of refugees. Yes, yes, it’s cheaper for them. Russia has been a capitalist state for 25 years, and this can give many a head start.
          Read the classics.

          “The main features and requirements of the basic economic law of modern capitalism could be formulated in approximately the following way: ensuring maximum capitalist profit by exploiting, ruining and impoverishing the majority of the population of a given country, by enslaving and systematically robbing the peoples of other countries, especially backward countries, and finally, by wars and the militarization of the national economy used to ensure the highest profits ”
          I.V. Stalin

          "Economic problems of socialism in the USSR." Op., T. 16, p. 181.
          1. Mik13
            Mik13 16 December 2015 13: 49
            +5
            Quote: S_last
            You have an interesting logic. Maybe we’ll all sit down and don’t do anything, let the whole world feed us, otherwise we’ll be broken by all 146 millions of refugees. Yes, yes, it’s cheaper for them. Russia has been a capitalist state for 25 years, and this can give many a head start.

            Try it.

            Only in practice - when a neighbor’s house is on fire — they are extinguished by the whole village, even if the neighbor is drunk and the house itself is set on fire, and in general a rare stuffed animal. Otherwise, the wind will blow - the whole village will burn.

            And when it comes to Ukraine - take into account at least the presence of extensive family ties, for example. And their influence on the possible policy of the Russian Federation in crisis situations. By the way, there are still some gas pipelines there. Well, about the rest, I wrote above.

            A complex problem always has a simple obvious and incorrect solution..
            1. S_last
              S_last 16 December 2015 16: 07
              0
              Here you write wonderful words about simple solutions to complex problems. And for some reason, give an example of a burning house in the village. And well, the house is Ukraine, a drunken neighbor, the people of Ukraine, but who is the village. Russia has repeatedly stated that it is not a party to the conflict, which means we live in another village.
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 16 December 2015 17: 59
                +3
                Quote: S_last
                Here you write wonderful words about simple solutions to complex problems. And for some reason, give an example of a burning house in the village. And well, the house is Ukraine, a drunken neighbor, the people of Ukraine, but who is the village. Russia has repeatedly stated that it is not a party to the conflict, which means we live in another village.

                In this case, the drunken neighbor is not the people, but the government. The people do not solve anything in this situation - and cannot decide even theoretically.

                As for the parties to the conflict ...
                It is not a matter of who is the party to the conflict, but of whose home can be burned down. So here is the wind from the Ukrainian burning house - towards Russia. These houses are nearby. And painting the fence in a different color from the fire will not protect.

                You can say anything - the main thing is that the fire somehow heard it.
                And in the neighboring village it’s not Russia, but those who gave the neighbor a drink and gave him matches. And just so that he burned his house along with the neighbors.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 16 December 2015 18: 22
                  +1
                  And in the neighboring village it’s not Russia, but those who gave the neighbor a drink and gave him matches. Perhaps the only way out is for "those who", themselves, to take the neighbor out of the binge and take away the matches. Perhaps it is not by chance that the country is buying gold, perhaps, it is making some more steps in the same direction. Kerry does not come to the weak, with a ruined economy. Diplomacy can talk about anything, but we do not go to Washington.
        4. Stena
          Stena 16 December 2015 22: 48
          0
          Quote: Mik13
          Now guess - where will the order of 20000000 (twenty MILLION) refugees from cities run? Most go to Russia. And this option, in any case, does not suit Russia — at least let them go — at least not let them go. Both options are bad.
          It is cheaper to give coal for free than to get such at the border. And the United States understands this very well, which is typical ...

          This is why it does not suit? In order to say that the options are bad, you need to justify this. And what reason do you bring? To speak cheaper, you need to bring figures - how much it will cost. And not to play blackmail - let's give money, otherwise hungry and evil Ukrainians will run ...
      2. Captain45
        Captain45 16 December 2015 15: 43
        +3
        I understand your sarcasm in relation to a talented person. You know, this is of course my opinion, but in my opinion you look like an abandoned woman who brings all the conversations down that her "ex to ... evil." So you are not in every comment you can walk past the President of the Russian Federation so as not to bite. This way you are very similar to dill, they also reduce all conversations to Putin and blame him for everything.
        Quote: Gardamir
        even when the lights were turned off in Crimea, on his personal order, they drove Russian coal to Krajina.
        I got an interesting note on the internet:
        It all started on the night of December 8, when Ukraine finally deigned to put electricity into its two districts of the Kherson region, Firtash's plants and a little bit to the Crimea. Arseny Yatsenyuk out of habit made a grimace of the most intelligent and began to wait for retaliatory actions of Russia. And they did not keep themselves waiting long. Vladimir Putin gave the command to put coal into Ukraine. And on December 9 he went.
        Peremozniki jumped happily - but it quickly turned out that they swore ... and they became smart, and peremoga turned into a harass, and in some places even a ganba. The fact is that the Russians began to ship strictly coking coals (that is, for metallurgists), and the DPR drove strictly brand T coal (lean).
        T grade coal is used in Ukraine only at Krivorozhskaya and Slavyanskaya stations, which cannot be shunting.
        It’s clear with Slavyansk that it’s their own, and Krivoy Rog delivers electricity to the Crimea, as it were. The rest of Ukraine’s power plants require grade A coal (anthracite) - and its tenths are shipped zero percent of horseradish.
        Vladimir Putin turns emery again. What light is coal.
        http://oppps.ru/ukraina-sdelal-vid-chto-vklyuchila-svet-a-rossiya-sdelala-vid-ch


        to-nachala-otgruzhat-ugol.html
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 16 December 2015 09: 53
      +3
      Quote: oldav
      You will have your own industry, access to the sea and markets.

      Yes, she is now.
      Yes, everything is strongly tied to Ukraine. Do not get away from this yet. But factories and mines on the Donetsk land. Here Ahmetka transferred money worthily for the salary, costs of enterprises and take away coal, metal and arrange as you wish, and then take it out. Otherwise, no. wink
      Of course, such an intermediary host is not needed in FIG, but ... so far, apparently, only that way.
      As for the supply of ore, etc., is that what Ukraine needs? Everyone squeals what is needed, so there will be supplies. And KMA from Donbass is not much further than Krivoy Rog. Donetsk coal can be sold ukram as Russian.
      Ukraine will not be able to develop, pay its creditors without the Donbass. Biden has already spoken about federalization: that’s nothing, it’s permissible. Apparently, maybe through new shocks, the authorities in Ukraine will move to more sane and trade between Donbass and Ukraine, and with the Russian Federation will be established on a pragmatic and mutually beneficial basis.
      The struggle itself in the Donetsk steppes is more for banderlogs disappearing, and not for separation from Ukraine. Although, most likely, separation, albeit not immediately complete, cannot be avoided.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 16 December 2015 12: 54
        +1
        Quote: Alekseev
        Here Ahmetka money worthy of salary, the costs of enterprises

        laughing I was especially pleased with "... worthy ..."! Yes, the oligarchs will hang themselves for a penny!
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 16 December 2015 15: 10
          0
          Quote: revnagan
          Yes, the oligarchs will strangle a penny!

          Ek opened the curtain, known to be strangled.
          The whole point is that first listed tanga, then take coal and metal. Or take it easy. wink
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2015 09: 57
      0
      Ukraine will not fall apart soon, the IMF and the USA will contribute to this, it can exist for more than a dozen years, even as the poorest state on the planet - and the Donbass can crack during this time.
      1. lactris
        lactris 16 December 2015 11: 35
        0
        About "more than a dozen years" you bent it of course .. Ukrainians do not have the resource of patience, they explode and create revolutions like cakes. And if economically they can hold out at the expense of their Western partners, in a half-dead state for another seven years, then the "freedom-loving soul of dill" cannot wait so long for wealth and good European life. Khokhlov need that immediately, and immediately! They will endure a maximum of five years
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 December 2015 18: 50
          0
          In five years, Ukraine will be the same as now - radical nationalists are in power, and then there they will create a global ovsher to launder bobble from all over the world, from the sale of weapons, drugs and everything else, so there is no reason for collapse - "Khokhlov need everything once "- they have already passed from 1991 to 2014 - they will wait another 23 years, and then another.
    4. revnagan
      revnagan 16 December 2015 12: 49
      +3
      In Ukraine, there is a saying: "Du.re.n dumkoyu bagati." I wrote and will write, Ukraine itself will not fall apart. Western "comrades" will not allow. In order to unite with someone, at least first go out at least to the borders of these And then, a hypothetical unification does not guarantee the availability of industry and sales markets in the presence of such figures as Akhmetov. It is necessary, at least, to immediately nationalize the entire industry, mineral resources and power generating capacities.
      It is required to create a completely new, own, people's state, without oligarchs, de facto. Completely change the social system in the liberated territory. And this is not even a question! If you continue your analogy with family life, then the "wife" simply has nowhere to go. There are relatives , but they cannot accept it there (they do not want to). Therefore, the "wife" armed with a "rolling pin", "frying pan", etc., with the help of relatives, is simply trying to articulate more favorable conditions for joint further living with her husband, an alcoholic. with a kingpin on the head and dig slowly in the ditch so that it doesn't stink. Well, that's how I see the situation.
    5. ordin64
      ordin64 16 December 2015 14: 17
      0
      This 404 country will smolder for a very long time. Patience may burst.
    6. Archon
      Archon 16 December 2015 16: 25
      +1
      let it not fall apart. Maybe some fragments will fall off in a hurry, but a collapsed Ukraine is less profitable than the whole. The whole Ukraine is needed by both Russia and America and the European Union. For example, now the country is controlled by a group controlled by America and sponsoring this small group is cheaper than each piece of the ruined Ukraine separately. Yes, and manage in this case is much easier. It was easy to dismember and subjugate Yugoslavia by force, but here is a slightly different case. And it is easier for Russia to negotiate with a single government of a united Ukraine than each region. In addition, with the collapse, control over borders, weapons, drugs and everything else will be completely lost.
      We can say that Russia is not yet so strong (economically and politically) that the United States went to the collapse of Ukraine in order to solve the problem.
    7. kazachyok69
      kazachyok69 16 December 2015 18: 13
      -1
      They will tolerate .... Only the question is what - and due to what Donbass now contains a social network and is going to contain it?
    8. I am Russian
      I am Russian 16 December 2015 19: 04
      +1
      What is Novorossia ??? 8-9 republics, former regions.
      You can not talk about Zaporozhye, Kharkov, etc. in isolation from the Donbass. The rest is Little Russia.
      When conceived Novorossia, the calculation was on 9 republics, its financial system, strong support for Russia, then the problems would be different. But 6 regions were blown away, even after they began to be killed, and Russia began to shout at nothing, we only need gas, pay for gas ... well, at least a little ... well, please. No.

      Back to dill - the train left. Now only they are to us, in New Russia.
      If someone wants to dill, then be kind yourself there on foot, by car. Enough seen enough, heard enough, endless dill.
    9. sssla
      sssla 16 December 2015 23: 03
      0
      Quote: oldav
      Unite with Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhya. You will have your own industry, access to the sea and markets.

      The eldest in the family does not allow !! )))
  2. domokl
    domokl 16 December 2015 06: 36
    +6
    Everything is logical. But economics does not exist without politics and ideology. And here the dog is buried.
    1. fraer
      fraer 16 December 2015 08: 11
      +4
      You are absolutely right. Only Russia can help in this matter. Under the Union, this would have been no problem. The party said it was necessary, the Komsomol answered yes. And forward and with the song.
      Now is another time. Russia is a corporation. And each member defends his corporate interests. And he doesn’t scratch his money to go where the war is.
      And mean in Donbass, as it is not regrettable, there is only one way. Ukraine.
      1. fraer
        fraer 16 December 2015 08: 44
        +3
        I look at the first minus. Look the truth in the eye. Whoever restores the economy of Donbass will receive it without a single shot. Here are the words of Dremov (no matter how anyone relates to him) To feed a hungry man, do not give him fish (in this case, humanitarian aid)
        give a fishing rod (help restore the industry)
      2. Banshee
        16 December 2015 09: 14
        14
        Quote: fraer
        And mean in Donbass, as it is not regrettable, there is only one way. Ukraine.


        No, not so.

        In fact, there is a race for survival. Who is the first to be bent. Our business is for Donbass to be the second, and Ukraine jumped first to the finish line.

        Ukraine will be bawling - in a month another Novorossia will be born, within the boundaries Purgin drew in his time.
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 16 December 2015 09: 35
          +6
          Quote: Banshee
          Ukraine will bark - in a month another New Russia will be born

          Once "barked", in February 2014, the heads of the regions of eastern Ukraine gathered in Kharkov, there was a brilliant chance, and it was not realized, and will not be realized, the "pipeline" thinking interferes ...
        2. fraer
          fraer 16 December 2015 10: 01
          +6
          Quote: Banshee
          Our business is that Donbass be the second, and Ukraine jumps to the finish line first.

          The values ​​are not equivalent. Ukraine, though rotten by its government, but with its industry.
          You won’t undermine it from the inside. Only from the outside. And Russia does not even make any attempt to do this.
          Donbass. Half-destroyed industry is tied to a greater extent, if not all, to Ukraine. And in any war, the one who has a stronger rear wins.
          But there is no need to wait until Ukraine itself is bent, as very large uncles are watching over it. request
        3. tomket
          tomket 16 December 2015 10: 03
          +3
          Quote: Banshee
          Ukraine will be bawling - in a month another Novorossia will be born, within the boundaries Purgin drew in his time.

          Somehow they don’t really help Ukraine in this absolutely necessary matter.
        4. 0255
          0255 16 December 2015 10: 37
          +4
          Quote: Banshee
          Ukraine will be bawling - in a month another Novorossia will be born, within the boundaries Purgin drew in his time.

          Big Novorossia has been "emerging" since 1,5 years, there have already been many articles that Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Odessa are about to rise. The Onolitegs also promised us that Transcarpathia would rise, the junta would get a war on 2 fronts, and then it would definitely be a kapets. That did not happen. If other regions really rise up, then we will talk about the big New Russia. Let's read less nonsense about the imminent collapse of something.
        5. revnagan
          revnagan 16 December 2015 13: 10
          +1
          Quote: Banshee
          Ukraine will be bawling - in a month another Novorossia will be born, within the boundaries Purgin drew in his time.

          Yes, it will not "bark". Itself will not "bark." So you are so wonderful understanding the prospects of Ukraine, probably the only one on the whole Earth? In the West, they obviously do not see or understand anything of this, eh? I always remember the words of Nobel - father (who was ), addressed to their sons: "While you are sitting and inventing a lock, somewhere there is already a burglar inventing a key for it." ... You cannot accept their rules of the game. This is a war of depletion of resources. In Russia there is no Fed and a printing press. It will not be possible to outbid the elite and change the pro-Western leadership to the pro-Russian-Yanukovosch. New Russia to the whole of Ukraine. Change the state system by the hands of the citizens of Ukraine. Reformat Ukraine into a new, friendly state with new institutions of power. And not wait until it and “she will bark.” “While the sun rises, the dew will eat up your eyes.”
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 16 December 2015 08: 45
      +3
      For many years now, the future socio-economic model of the development of New Russia has been hiding from us by the Russian and LDNR authorities - and this is no accident.
      It is clear that Novorossia does not want to live according to the Oligovo-thieves neither Ukrainian nor Russian models, and the impasse is that Russia imposes its own Novorossia structure, which does not suit Novorossia.
      I dare to assume that the industrial South of Ukraine has seen enough of the Russian "lifestyle" and said "Thank you, ne traba!", Apparently because the liberals (well, not Glazyev!) Offered them privatization according to the Russian model, and fooling Bilsch nemae, Russia is glaringly. The Russian liberals do not offer another option. Hence all the problems for the liberals with the Donbass.
      Well done, Donetsk residents, nobody needs such an experience of theft and robbery.
      1. fraer
        fraer 16 December 2015 09: 10
        +7
        Quote: hydrox
        Well done, Donetsk residents, nobody needs such an experience of theft and robbery.

        The worst thing, if they fall under Ukraine, will be a bloody sweep.
        And the responsibility for this will be on the one who did not lend a helping hand.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 16 December 2015 06: 36
    +5
    Here is the alignment. It’s necessary to somehow agree, while it’s still possible to save something.. It would be with someone .. In Kiev, obviously do not want to negotiate ..
  4. Mik13
    Mik13 16 December 2015 06: 47
    11
    But !

    Return Donbass to the arms of Ukraine - impossible if we are talking about today's Ukraine.

    So you have to return Ukraine to the arms of Donbass. Well and accordingly - to return back to the Russian world. And then something joke about the independence of some kind of unsuccessful turned out ...
    1. Banshee
      16 December 2015 08: 53
      +3
      Quote: Mik13
      will have to return Ukraine to the arms of Donbass


      As an option
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 16 December 2015 09: 12
        +3
        Good morning !
        An interesting article turned out, thanks.
        1. avt
          avt 16 December 2015 10: 01
          +3
          Quote: Mik13
          An interesting article turned out, thanks.

          What an interesting thing! Most recently, the author, together with Staver, practically branded the Kremlin upon the death of Dremov (thanks not personally to Surkov laughing )
          Output.

          The murder of Dremov is natural and predictable. The LC, like the DPR, is being prepared for military defeat from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Either to some yet unknown agreement, when LDNR will remain part of Ukraine on some conditions. Exactly. Republic must remain part of Ukraine. And radical field commanders will not allow this.
          and-and-and-and, Here. New turn .." wassat
          Opinion, contrary to what we used to see and hear from there. But the opinion is already lived and confident people. An opinion that is impossible not to heed. This is not a new separatism wishing to return the Donbass in the arms of Ukraine. This is the opinion of people who can, and most importantly, want their work to benefit. No matter who, DNI, LC, New Russia, Donbas.

          Those wishing to fish and not receive it as an aid.
          So who is pouring whom and where? ? ? Or maybe it would have been better even when the Crimea was annexed to take a closer look at Putin's words about the fact that the East of Ukraine is the former Novorossia and even then sit and think about the economic ties of enterprises built during the Soviet era? What a secret revealed! It turns out that without the ore of Dnepropetrovsk, the coke of Donetsk and Lugansk, the power engineering of these regions and the gas of Russia, the metallurgical giants of the USSR cannot work either in Zaporozhye or in the Donbass! Who would have thought? Let me guess - one of the first voiced by Yakov Kedmi - "Putin needs all of Ukraine and he will take it." Well, maybe not all, someone will have to pay all the same for the collected debts, and the banderlog somewhere you have to live and jump, well, and somehow it does not smile so that Russia becomes the legal successor for them, again in this case, some kind of Ukraine is needed in some new form, but it will take it for sure. Again, not as the urapatriots want - Putin! Enter troops!" He will take it when, as in Crimea, most of the population with arms in hand and with the help of Russia will defend their right to decide their fate, and if later, in the course of expressing their will in a referendum, decides to become part of Russia, Putin will certainly take it. But it will definitely not be Ukraine.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 16 December 2015 11: 16
        +5
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Quote: Mik13
        So you have to return Ukraine to the arms of Donbass.
        Yeah lol "Donetsk cellars" to all cities of Ukraine ..


        In Donetsk cellars, of course, there is nothing good.

        But compared to cleaning Krasnogorovka alone, this is not the same scale.
        Apart from the rest of the arts - like burning swastikas or severed fingers ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef 16 December 2015 15: 16
            +4
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Interestingly, the previous 2 years "VO", in the same period, was full of pictures and comments about freezing Ukrainians. Now there is nothing.

            Yes
          3. Mik13
            Mik13 16 December 2015 18: 27
            +1
            Quote: Alibekulu

            Quote: Mik13
            But compared to cleaning Krasnogorovka alone, this is not the same scale.
            Apart from the rest of the arts - like burning swastikas or severed fingers ...

            Yes Yes. This is what, here is a crucified boy in Slavyansk


            http://infoodessa.com/index.php/entry/bojtsy-pravogo-sektora-otrubili-paltsy-ple
            nnomu-opolchentsu.html


            Enjoy, do you like that?

            A prisoner is a very real character. He was later exchanged. He gave an interview about this.
            And these photos were taken by the right-wingers themselves. The evidence base is being prepared for the tribunal.

            Do you find photos with a swastika? Google to help, as they say.

            You can watch the video for a change - May 2 in Odessa. Love for fellow citizens is tseevropsky.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 16 December 2015 18: 34
              0
              There was once a department "L" headed by Sudaplatov. While the point is, yes, some people, "from stress", may experience heart attacks and strokes? The question, of course, is not for you.
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 16 December 2015 19: 58
                +2
                And what? Will we build statistics on individual marginals?
                Name at least one unit in the army of the Russian Federation or the DPR and LPR that adhere to Nazi ideology?

                Give at least one example of the abuse of prisoners.

                And then I can find photos.
                And some familiar place ...



                But how did they get there? And Vadim Troyan brought them. Head of the Kiev police. Here he is - what a handsome man ...


                But actually I didn’t mean it.
                But such actions in this case - SBU


                proof
                http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201509201450-cqet.htm
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Mik13
                    Mik13 16 December 2015 20: 48
                    0
                    Quote: Alibekulu
                    Quote: Mik13
                    Give at least one example of the abuse of prisoners.
                    That pozhalsta


                    Did he feed them with chevrons? Horror-horror .... And then they also chopped their fingers? Or were they all the time before the exchange sitting in a pit on the street without food? Or they cut out something on the body?

                    Quote: Alibekulu

                    And by the way, the combat commander - Mozgovoy, which is on the alert ..

                    Yes, he did it very well. Earnestly.
                    He immediately denied Odessa, bullying the prisoners, shooting artillery of city blocks, shooting civilians near Donetsk ...

                    Up to the heap - violation of the Ottawa Convention by Ukraine can be recalled, the use of cluster munitions in urban neighborhoods, the use of phosphorus munitions in urban neighborhoods ... Did you forget something? Well, well, the blockade, including blocking the supply of vital medicines, such as insulin and drugs for the treatment of cancer, the destruction of communal infrastructure, targeted artillery raid in schools and hospitals, and in schools - also during school hours ...

                    Honestly, I do not know that these heroes have not yet managed.
                    So sing your songs to someone else.
          4. Mik13
            Mik13 16 December 2015 18: 38
            +1
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Interestingly, the previous 2 years "VO", in the same period, was full of pictures and comments about freezing Ukrainians.
            Now there’s nothing ...

            Perhaps you misunderstood what is written there in my comments? Or did the familiar letters see - and the reflex worked? Funny, of course, but sad.

            Quote: Alibekulu
            "The naive Chukchi vyunosh". 2 years no 2 years Moscow does not cut off gas to Ukraine.
            Is it really going to be decided when the Kremlin is trying to reconcile itself with the West. When a rapidly empty budget is fatally dependent on gas sales to Europe, including.
            P.S. Ah crying bad that Ukrainians don't have a tomato ..

            You just do not taste. It supplies gas to the Russian Federation exactly as much as Ukraine pays. And now - only by prepayment. Moreover, the EU gives money for the purchase of gas. This is overwhelming, definitely.

            You write about sanctions now. Required. And that is not the whole set of Svidomo here.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 16 December 2015 20: 31
                +1
                Quote: Alibekulu
                But really, I am even at a loss why Russia supplies gas to "phochists" Even if it is prepaid .. And even after the events of May 2 in Odessa ..
                And besides, at good discounts ..

                I already wrote everything. Read. Why and why.

                Quote: Alibekulu
                Grandson of the Hero of the Soviet Union, officer of the Ukrainian army, senior lieutenant Yuri Smirnov, who was captured in the Southeast

                How many fingers were cut off for him? Or was something cut out on his back?

                Although, if I were to decide, I would not let him go. He is a art corrector. It is precisely these that provide an accurate hit on civilian targets. Have you ever seen what the result of artillery work in the city looks like?
                Nevertheless, the hero is healthy, well-fed, not even a bit, looking into the future with optimism ...

                If my grandfather knew about such a descendant, he would continue his clan to the curtain ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Mik13
                    Mik13 16 December 2015 21: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: Alibekulu
                    Tell about this to the widow of the deputy of the Gorlovsky City Council Vl. Rybak.
                    He just ripped open his stomach ..
                    Like the 18-year-old student of the Kiev Polytechnic, Yuri Popravko

                    Come on. This provocation since the 14 year, patients with the censor drag everywhere. and no one has ever provided reliable data on the subject of involvement.

                    You would remember the air conditioning on the building in Lugansk.

                    Please note that everything I wrote about heroic deeds here can be confirmed right up to the OSCE reports.
                    For example:
                    2 October 2014 during shelling a citizen of Switzerland, Red Cross employee Laurent Etienne was killed.
                    There the cluster munition exploded. Have you seen the photo? Who shot there, I wonder? Probably the air conditioning again ...
                    1. Alibekulu
                      Alibekulu 16 December 2015 21: 25
                      0
                      Quote: Mik13
                      Come on. This provocation since the 14 year, patients with the censor drag everywhere. and no one has ever provided reliable data on the subject of involvement.
                      Well yes belay He himself ripped his stomach and sighed into the river.
                      And all this is just to discredit "the bright reputation of the Donbass militia."
                      What a cunning "Svidomo" .. angry Real "xoxol" negative
                      But wait sir repeat Then we can assume that the information you cited is provocations of reptiloids, Ali Zionists .. request?!
                      And how reliable is your data on the topic of involvement ..
                      1. Mik13
                        Mik13 16 December 2015 21: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Quote: Mik13
                        Come on. This provocation since the 14 year, patients with the censor drag everywhere. and no one has ever provided reliable data on the subject of involvement.
                        Well yes belay He himself ripped his stomach and sighed into the river.
                        And all this is just to discredit "the bright reputation of the Donbass militia."
                        What a cunning "Svidomo" .. angry Real "xoxol" negative
                        But wait sir repeat Then we can assume that the information you cited is provocations of reptiloids, Ali Zionists .. request?!

                        I already wrote everything on this topic. You are either really somewhat inadequate, or you mimic very well. In any case, I'm tired of such an unproductive activity. Download to someone else.
                      2. Alibekulu
                        Alibekulu 16 December 2015 21: 48
                        -4
                        Quote: Mik13
                        I have already written everything on this topic. You are either truly inadequate or mimicking very well.
                        How convenient No. Blame your opponent for "inadequacy" ..
                        And I, unlike you, did not use the stamps "svidomit", "vatnik" and so on.
                        Notice that you deleted my comments, not yours .. request This is definitely a provocation of the SBU or the State Department.
                        I personally believe that all these outrages are characteristic of both, I will emphasize the parties. And the Donbass has become a magnet for thugs on both front lines. As well, romantics and patriots ..
                        And it is characteristic that they emphasize the heroism of the Donbas and retouch the Ukrainians who are fighting "for Ridna Ukraine" soldier
                        I watched "Quiet Don" not far off. It was especially symptomatic to see against the background of the Russian-Ukrainian war.
                        P.S. Someday, based on this conflict, there will be a "Sholokhov". In Ukraine or Russia, when the understanding of the absurdity of this unnecessary war comes ...
                      3. Mik13
                        Mik13 16 December 2015 22: 15
                        +3
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Convenient no. Blame your opponent for "inadequacy" ..

                        You ignore the arguments, choose the details in my posts - which you cling to. This is either inadequacy or conscious trolling. Decide for yourself.

                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        And I, unlike you, did not use the stamps "svidomit", "vatnik" and so on.

                        You just dragged a piece of Censor here. Thank you, of course, but I have the opportunity to compare how the virtual world of Ukrainian media corresponds to reality. I did not find any matches.

                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Note that deleted my comments, not yours .. Definitely these are provocations of the SBU or the State Department.

                        This is not me, these are moderators. Ask them a question. They probably also decided that you are a troll. I wonder why?

                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        I personally believe that all these outrages are characteristic of both, I emphasize the parties. And Donbass became a magnet for scumbags on both sides. As well, both romantics and patriots on both sides ..
                        And it is characteristic that they emphasize the heroism of the Donbas and retouch the Ukrainians who are fighting "for Ridna Ukraine"

                        And I did not come across war crimes representatives of LDNR. Although - I would know, I assure you. There are enough thugs, as in any war, but for some reason, mass shootings of civilians are arranged by the Armed Forces of Ukraine or by kind (there is an OSCE report - check it out) - and much more.

                        At the same time, I draw your attention - all the facts of the crimes that I listed are recorded, including by the representatives of the OSCE (do you trust them, I hope?) - or the PS themselves - as with fingers.

                        And the facts confirming the similar actions of the LDNR - except for the Ukrainian media - are absent. Although the same observers with great pleasure would have recorded something like that - if there had been.

                        So both sides do not need to be stressed so aggressively - the Red Army also did not serve the angels, but before the Wehrmacht's exploits in Khatyn and Auschwitz they were like before Mars on a moped ...
                      4. Alibekulu
                        Alibekulu 17 December 2015 09: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Mik13
                        You ignore arguments
                        But just the opposite. For your examples, I cite similar cases from the opposing side.
                        You just dragged a piece of censor here.
                        Interestingly, in the information I provided, I have never used materials from the Censor. repeat
                        Quote: Mik13
                        I wonder why?
                        It's clear why laughing Defiles akhent of the Hosdep "light image of the militia" angry
                        Quote: Mik13
                        fixed including by the OSCE representatives (do you trust them, I hope?) - or by the PS themselves - as with fingers.
                        You about these.
                        Quote: Mik13
                        im like Mars on a mopedica ...
                        Correctly say everything. But the truth is, something to drive on the guys. Just ripped the belly Bendera, but thrown into the river, like dogs ..
                        Quote: Mik13
                        And the facts confirming the similar actions of LDNR - except for the Ukrainian media - are absent.
                        Here is a photo from Topvar. They shoot from the residential sector. Where will the "otvetka" arrive ?! I hope the moderators will not delete this article from "VO" in the fight for the moral character of "Apaches" ..
                      5. Mik13
                        Mik13 17 December 2015 14: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        But just the opposite. For your examples, I cite similar cases from the opposing side.

                        You gave as many as 2 (two) "similar" cases.
                        The first is the commutation of captured cyborgs at the airport by their own chevrons performed by Givi.
                        The second is the murder of a deputy and a student, and the involvement of the militia in these killings is a very controversial issue. It is only the Ukrainian media who believe that this is a militia.

                        By the way, do you really think that observers lie in favor of LDNR? Seriously?

                        Quote: Alibekulu
                        Here is a photo from Topvar. They shoot from the residential sector. Where will the "otvetka" arrive ?!

                        Come on. Donetsk agglomeration is a continuous urban development.
                        Where you do not stand, the city will be.

                        Only under fire did objects regularly hit the center of the city, where artillery (and indeed military equipment) was not within a kilometer radius, at least - if not more.

                        Hospital Kalinin. About 8 shells. City center. The operblock is disabled.

                        CSTB. Order 10 hail. City center.
                        33 School, ibid. Fired, burned.

                        Museum of Local Lore. City center. Fired by artillery, partially destroyed.

                        Residential quarter - the intersection of Shevchenko and Mine workers. City center. Artillery. Several cars burned, about 10 dead and many wounded. In one of the cars, together with a family from 4, a child of 4 years old burned out. Do you want a photo?

                        Crossroads of Artem and Sadovy prospect. Large caliber artillery. noon, city center. A residential building, the 5th Children's Hospital, the building of DonNTU, and the Green Plaza shopping center came under fire. Many people were killed and wounded - mostly bystanders.

                        The shelling of the ICRC office (Laurent Etienne died) - about 10 cluster shells of the MLRS "Hurricane". City center (Universitetskaya 80)

                        On October 1, 2014 (the beginning of the school year), school 53 (also the city center) was shelled. MLRS "Smerch", about 10 shells. A bus burned down at a bus stop near the school, 5 killed, many wounded. The children were not injured only by a miracle - the ceremonial part ended 10 minutes before the shelling.

                        The shelling of the 63 school, in the stadium near the school several children were killed, many were wounded. Artillery. (Well, this one, at least, closer to the airport - only a half a kilometer).

                        The shelling of the stop "Donetskgormash" - transport interchange at rush hour. several large-caliber shells. more 20 people died, many wounded. Destroyed trolley bus. It was there that cyborgs from the airport were taken on an excursion. Cyborgs very plausibly cried and asked for forgiveness. They even believed.

                        The shelling of the line for humanitarian aid (district of the Palace of Culture named after Kuybyshev) - 12 dead, many wounded.


                        I don’t remember everything yet. Moreover, in all these cases, no military men were standing nearby. All these places are the center of the city, there of the objects that can even be considered theoretically military are the regional police departments and fire departments.

                        And I only remembered the Donetsk exploits. What Ukrainian artillery did with Gorlovka is a separate story. Here the Gorlovites are in the VO - take an interest. If you do not send obscenities right away. They are somehow angry at Svidomo. I wonder why? Wild people do not understand their happiness ...

                        So once again I remind you - download to someone else. You audience was wrong. There are many eyewitnesses.
  • theadenter
    theadenter 16 December 2015 06: 49
    10
    If they decide to reconnect the DPR / LPR to Ukraine - who will give them autonomy? Who guarantees everyone amnesty and good faith?
    People have not forgotten who bombed them.
    1. Kite
      Kite 16 December 2015 08: 36
      0
      Yes, the analysis "for three" was not complete, only for a short time ahead, with the old guidelines. A little further there will be everything for which the Maidan was arranged, although there is already talk about the agrarian orientation of the Ukriya, but this is just a current, temporary state.
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 16 December 2015 12: 11
        0
        Why should the analysis of non-economists and their conclusion be discussed at all?

        1) It takes time - Russia now can not invest in the Donbass, since there are no political prerequisites.
        2) Railways can be laid, it's just rails and sleepers ... There is no irreversibility.
        etc.
        3) Coal and so on can be bought by the whole world from them. For example, through Russia. And indeed in my Crimea will soon be needed.
        1. 97110
          97110 16 December 2015 15: 59
          0
          Quote: KG_patriot_last
          Coal and so on the whole world can buy from them. For example, through Russia. And indeed in my Crimea will soon be needed

          Related to the transshipment of coal. Coal - it is different. And just Donbass coal is not the most demanded in the market. You can talk for a long time about how good he is. But where are the capacities designed for its use? In Ukraine. I have not heard about transportation even to Russia. So the world can of course. Just will not.
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 16 December 2015 06: 54
    +3
    Obituary for Novorossiya ... "Partner" Kerry flew to the funeral service in the Kremlin ...
    According to the author's logic, it is necessary to part with Crimea, Kaliningrad, the support of Transnistria and other "problematic logistics" ...
    People of Donbass - immeasurable respect! Well, and "curators" - 30 pieces of silver.
    1. aleks_29296
      aleks_29296 16 December 2015 08: 04
      +3
      Quote: samarin1969
      According to the author's logic, it is necessary to part with Crimea, Kaliningrad, the support of Transnistria and other "problematic logistics" ...


      Where in the article did you read about this? The article only gives an understanding of the mood of people in the places, most likely real moods.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 16 December 2015 08: 09
        +3
        Quote: aleks_29296
        Where in the article did you read about this?

        The slogan "Putin has merged everything" in the heads of such individuals.
    2. Banshee
      16 December 2015 08: 54
      +1
      Quote: samarin1969
      According to the logic of the author


      We must first read what is written. And to realize it.

      But apparently your brain for 23 year, got a lot. Sorry.
  • moskowit
    moskowit 16 December 2015 06: 54
    +1
    Most likely it is. "The top can not ..." The existing "authorities" will not agree on anything. Ukrainian "elbow-deep" in blood, Donetsk and Luhansk share "the skin of a bear that has not been killed" ...
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 16 December 2015 07: 00
    +6
    Unfortunately, the only reasonable way out of this situation is the creation of Greater Novorossia from 8 regions + Transnistria and Gagauzia we missed in May 2014. There wasn’t enough determination and will to go so far against the West. You can, of course, return to this option, but then you need to withdraw the recognition of the Maidan authorities, break up the army of Maidan Ukraine, and overcome the consequences of anti-Russian propaganda of the last 2 years. This is in addition to Western sanctions.
    An intermediate option is to break up the Ukrainian army, reach the borders of 2 regions and attach the DPR and LPR to Russia. Then the ore can be transported from the KMA and transported through Mariupol. But at the moment even this seems fantastic.
    As for "negotiating", there is no one to negotiate with. The territory of Ukraine is controlled by the United States, and they do not need to negotiate with their hands.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 16 December 2015 12: 50
        +1
        Quote: Valentine
        Everything will be that way

        Although not a believer, but as they say, God forbid.
        Quote: Valentine
        .This article is again another stuffing from stavers, buffoons
        el murids

        I don’t think, however, the author is present in the discussion, you can tell him that yourself.
        Quote: Valentine
        With metal, the same as with the rest.

        What is metal to be made of? Where to sell? The bottom line is that for the normal functioning of industry, you can’t do a bit of the former Donetsk and Lugansk regions and you need to end the war, but you can only end it by winning it.
        Agree with the Americans did not work.
  • Stanislas
    Stanislas 16 December 2015 07: 03
    +1
    Patriotism and the desire to wait for a brighter future are good when today's day you live, not survive
    Patriotism only manifests itself along with the question of survival on the agenda. In "fat years", in a peaceful and safe situation, it is difficult to separate love for the Motherland from love for a well-fed, secured and calm life.
  • igorra
    igorra 16 December 2015 07: 25
    +4
    Both Donbass and Russia need Ukraine, normal, adequate, we just have to wait until it gets too busy. We don’t throw it away, either gas or coal, we’ll take it into account in the future.
    1. 72jora72
      72jora72 16 December 2015 09: 35
      +1
      Both Donbass and Russia need Ukraine, normal, adequate, we just have to wait until it gets too busy.
      Uh-huh, like in a zombie movie: you need to wait until the ghouls get drunk on a human, and then an amazing metamorphosis will occur, and they will turn into enlightened, kind and loving people ... Do not build illusions, be careful, the phrase "promise them whatever you like, AND TO HANG ... We will hang them later.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 16 December 2015 07: 27
    +2
    Then ruin Ukraine.
    Because, as Ukraine, the Donbass is not particularly needed in fact.
    They need slaves who will get nishtyaki.
  • Viktor fm
    Viktor fm 16 December 2015 07: 40
    -2
    Human life does not teach anything. According to the principle - we will give everything for nothing, but we cannot live without Ukraine.
  • BLOND
    BLOND 16 December 2015 07: 44
    0
    ... the article is normal, only the conclusion is not correct!
    Everything will be fine, and Donbass will cooperate with Ukraine ...
    But then when "the junta sinks into oblivion"
  • Riv
    Riv 16 December 2015 07: 45
    0
    The input is unequivocal: Ukraine needs to be annexed to New Russia. Svidomye!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. BLOND
      BLOND 16 December 2015 07: 47
      0
      no thanks ...
      Let’s just be neighbors ... kind, but a shotgun with salt hangs on the wall
      1. Riv
        Riv 16 December 2015 11: 17
        0
        How? Don't you feel like having a couple of ukrov slaves? At one time they were highly valued in the Crimea. They work a lot, speak little and almost do not need to feed. Three cookies per day.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 December 2015 18: 53
          0
          For this we have an article in the heading.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 16 December 2015 07: 51
    +4
    Quote: Zomanus
    Then ruin Ukraine.
    Because, as Ukraine, the Donbass is not particularly needed in fact.
    They need slaves who will get nishtyaki.

    I think they need Donbass as territory and bowels. Categorically without people. A friend from Dnepropetrovsk arrived, where they were 1 month old relatives for the first time in 3 years. At the household level, the population of Donbass is demonized, terrible stories about the behavior of refugees. Although, as he says-- all 20 years about them all Ukraine spread nasty things, intolerance and contempt.
    Yes, of course, to ruin, strangle this country Poroshenko. Let Donbass dominate them !!
  • V.ic
    V.ic 16 December 2015 07: 52
    +3
    The roots of the plant nourish it. Cut the roots = the plant will die. The economy in the state determines everything. Sadly, those guys with whom the author spoke were better acquainted with the reality there. But not yet evening! Ahead of WINTER, ahead of fights. God grant them to survive!
    1. 0255
      0255 16 December 2015 10: 48
      0
      Quote: V.ic
      The roots of the plant nourish it. Cut the roots = the plant will die. The economy in the state determines everything. Sadly, those guys with whom the author spoke were better acquainted with the reality there. But not yet evening! Ahead of WINTER, fights ahead. God grant them to survive!

      The Kiev junta was predicted to crash last winter after a gas outage.
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 16 December 2015 07: 52
    +2
    Some are still trying to open "America" ​​in the Donbass, and some are still wondering why it is still not part of Russia. Wake up the kindergarten! A year ago, everything was determined. Donbass in the form of the masses is not homogeneous in its political orientation. There, not even the entire population wants to be in Russia, and far from the majority! The second point: Russia does not need Ukraine split into pieces. It needs it entirely within its borders. Another issue is the temporary status of the territories, but temporary. We do not want Donbass to be another country. Now it is necessary to wait for the time and come to some kind of decision. Whoever it will not know, but to quickly chop off the land of Donbass to yourself is to say it mildly uncivilized. This is a brotherly people, will always be with us and this is the main thing. political arena, a new era will come and all criminals will be brought to justice.
    1. olimpiada15
      olimpiada15 16 December 2015 09: 17
      +3
      A little distracted from the main topic of the article.
      In Ukraine and in Russia, one people lives. An exception is part of the Westernized origin of Ukrainians.
      If you think about it, then 80% of the inhabitants of Ukraine and 30% of the citizens of Russia are connected by common genes.
      This is not an exaggeration, it really is, my grandchildren are 12,5% ​​Ukrainian, which they will never even know about, because surnames on the female line disappear in the archives. And those with a surname ending in -uk -uk- also do not think about the genetic connection.
      We speak one language, Russian. And for the ruling junta, and for those on whom they rely, and obvious and hidden separatists, the native language is Russian: they think in it. As is well demonstrated in the video of the fire at the tank farm near Kiev, in an extreme situation, when new tanks exploded, everyone shouted in Russian. Russophobes speak Russian in government; they don’t have another common language.
      Where Russophobia comes from is the debilitation program. Very simply, people who speak a foreign language and hear someone else’s speech partially understand the information, and people who speak and hear their native language perceive the information more fully, i.e. hidden meaning of the phrase.
      What God has tied up, people cannot divide.
      When a decision is made in Ukraine it is necessary to be guided by this quote from the Bible, for any decision that contradicts this will be destroyed by forces from above. Conversely, a decision made taking into account biblical truth will be vital.
      The decisions taken in the upper circles in Ukraine in the spring of 2014 were incorrect. They corresponded to the installation of the United States on the collapse of Ukraine, and not to the interests of the people. Probably after the correct actions of Moscow in the Crimea, the pro-Western politicians, well represented in the governing circles of the Russian Federation, worked well. Russia did the right thing with Crimea. When the West talks about the occupation of Crimea, it’s a lie, a true interpretation of the actions of the Russian Federation — we protected the Crimeans from the humane intervention that the rest of Ukraine underwent.
      The situation continues to be aggravated because God's business is disrupted in Ukraine - there was a separation of what is a single living organism.
    2. sa-ag
      sa-ag 16 December 2015 09: 21
      0
      Quote: dchegrinec
      A year ago, everything was determined. Donbass in the form of the masses is not homogeneous in its political orientation. There, not even the entire population wants to be in Russia, and not the majority!

      And why then all of Ukraine, if the masses there are not homogeneous, etc.? If there is a fermentation among the masses of people, then this process should be headed and the final goal should be indicated, thereby rallying the undecided masses of people to advance towards this goal, this was not done by anyone
  • Leonid1976
    Leonid1976 16 December 2015 08: 05
    0
    By the origin of the article. I think Roman Skomorokhov is lying about three engineers. He just keeps his nose to the wind. The party line has changed, which means we will write other articles. The line to push Dombas back into Ukraine on the basis of autonomy rights has been carried out for a long time. But in order to preserve the influence of Russia in the region, to preserve the army of the LPR in the form of the people's militia, control of the border, etc. And Ukraine should contain all this happiness. But Poroshenko doesn't want to. That is the whole essence of the Minsk process. The destroyed Dombass is not needed by anyone. But if engineers really exist, then they are not very smart people, to put it mildly. Okay, pensioners. They sincerely believed that it was worth shouting "Putin sent troops" and the USSR would return on Russian tanks. When the grass was greener, they stole less, and the country was respected and feared more. And the engineers had to understand all this. Did they deliberately decide to leave themselves out of work? An example of a plant in Rybnitsa (PMR), please. A third of the population remained. They live on subsidies from Russia. But at least there are local farms there. They live with them. By the way, the engineers kept silent about water. There is not enough water from the Northern Donets for the needs of metallurgy. There is water running along the canal from the Dnieper. Smiled (this is a sad smile) information, how they protect their plants from cutting. Lists of cut, exported (we are talking about high-precision machines), squeezed out enterprises walks in the Ukrainian. internet. But this is propaganda. Who will check the junta. And here is the recognition that the Russian world came to Dombas in the form of gopots with a cutter, who are in favor of the new government, field commanders, curators, etc. cut everything that is not vigorously protected.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 16 December 2015 08: 20
      +8
      Quote: Leonid1976
      And here is the recognition that the Russian world came to Dombas in the form of a gopota with a cutter, which are in favor of the new government, field commanders, curators, etc. cut everything that does not protect vigorously enough.

      Thank you for the TRUTH. What would we do without you. You would live in ignorance, but you could open our eyes. THANK!

      What a pity you already went from here to ...
  • Herbalist
    Herbalist 16 December 2015 08: 39
    +1
    All this is true under one condition - Russia refuses to support Donbass. Then yes, Donbass will not survive. Since the option of recognizing the DPR and LPR by Russia is not even theoretically visible, it means that a decision has been made to push people more actively into Ukraine.
    And yet, with something, the article reminded the propaganda of oligarch Akhmetov, in which it is customary to replace concepts and say that Mariupol was not taken - that’s good, Slavyansk and Kramatorsk were left — that’s good, Krasnoarmeysk and Artyomovsky, and Krasnogorovka — that’s good. But it seems to me that if the Donetsk region were in its entirety in the DPR, Ukraine would be more accommodating, since even the stub that LDNR now occupies allows manipulating Ukraine, for example, in coal, rather sensitively.
    But in Ukraine, purely human, no one wants to.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 16 December 2015 09: 09
      +2
      Quote: Travnik
      Since the option of recognizing the DPR and LPR by Russia is not even theoretically visible, it means that a decision has been made to push people more actively into Ukraine.

      And in what borders should Russia recognize LDNR? Within the boundaries of the regions? Or in actual for now?

      Lack of recognition does not at all mean "stuffing" into Ukraine. In fact, it can mean anything. PMR is not pushing something into Moldova. and Abkhazia was never pushed into Georgia.
    2. Banshee
      16 December 2015 09: 10
      +1
      Quote: Travnik
      something the article reminded agitations oligarch Akhmetov,


      Revealed! Yes it's me.

      Quote: Travnik
      it means a decision has been made to push people more actively into Ukraine.


      How do you imagine it? Well Temko set, yes. Shove up Do not push anyone.
      1. potalevl
        potalevl 16 December 2015 17: 04
        +1
        Not at all respected by me Banshee, after you banned my comment on your article. I would still like to know where I was wrong in assessing your article and its author for you. The word provocateur is meant "as treacherous behavior, inciting someone to such actions that can entail serious consequences." (Dictionary of the Russian language by S.I. Ozhegov) In your article, you are trying to convince the public (members of the VO website) that the DPR / LPR project is not viable and only the return of these territories under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian government will bring peace and prosperity to the citizens of Donbass. At the same time, you perfectly understand that in this case, many citizens of the DPR / LPR will face death, imprisonment, or, at best, deportation. In your comments, to your own article, you express a completely different point of view.
        In assessing your article, I pointed out those inconsistencies that indicate the custom nature of its writing, and based on this I expressed my attitude to the author. But you, seeing that you were caught in a lie and not knowing how to answer this, did not find anything better, how to ban my comments, under the guise of violating the rules of the site, not to offend the authors of the articles. Not solid somehow. Or, again, start looking for violations of the rules in my comment?
    3. oracul
      oracul 16 December 2015 09: 34
      +1
      I do not agree on one thing - theoretically, anything is possible.
  • Leonid1976
    Leonid1976 16 December 2015 08: 45
    0
    And Ukraine, purely human, does not want such a Dombass.
  • Gor-1974
    Gor-1974 16 December 2015 08: 47
    +1
    If humanity "decides" to step into the Stone Age (it is clear how), then all countries who will have living people will fight for the lands of Donbass.
  • Shark Lover
    Shark Lover 16 December 2015 08: 49
    -2
    Natural process. At first the USSR was destroyed, everything was bent, somehow learned, some were rebuilt, now Ukraine is destroyed, the same thing. It is necessary to seek, to establish. Who needs it? The collapse, it is clear to some immigrants, who should restore? Us? It is necessary, all the more, I remember the 90s when officers felled to take the oath to Ukraine, they promised apartments there. Right now, they have nowhere to blame for many-work. To help? we already help, we have the 2nd working in Dnepropetrovsk, the state pays them the money for 2 years of work in the Russian Federation, no one infringes. Go, negotiate, again to Ukraine? So it’s better to go directly to Africa, for bananas and sunbathe right away, until black, you will marry your own.
  • exSUman
    exSUman 16 December 2015 08: 51
    +5
    The author himself indicated the geographical line necessary for the industrial growth of Donbass ... Zaporizhia, Nikopol, Krivoy Rog, and Mariupol, respectively, although Nikolaev and Kherson are already nearby ... control over these centers of production, processing and logistics will give an impetus to self-sufficient the functioning of the industry of the former Ukraine. What the Zapadents fight for and the Donetsk people will make sense ... the former will go to Europa with pleasure to wash the toilets, the latter will return to the faces, rolling mills and to the machines ... to each - his own ... just all of these will be superfluous in this scheme Akhmetovs, Firtashi, Kolomoisky and other bloodsuckers ... So what? Go west!
    1. Banshee
      16 December 2015 09: 11
      0
      Quote: exSUman
      The author himself indicated a geographical line necessary for the industrial growth of Donbass ... Zaporozhye, Nikopol, Krivoi Rog, and Mariupol, respectively, although there is already Nikolaev and Kherson near ...


      It seems to be not ... But if you have such thoughts, you are very happy.
  • Evgeniy-111
    Evgeniy-111 16 December 2015 09: 16
    +3
    In my opinion, Ukraine should be annexed to the Donbass ...
  • Alexl
    Alexl 16 December 2015 09: 28
    +2
    Ukraine has nothing to do with it. Krivbass, Nikopol, Mariupol - this is all New Russia, not Ukraine.
  • Bombowoz
    Bombowoz 16 December 2015 09: 30
    +1
    Ukraine will finish its industry to the end and who then will need the products of Donbass? Remaining within the state, they will still be outcasts in it with the ensuing consequences.
  • oracul
    oracul 16 December 2015 09: 39
    0
    I will write this: the world is multidimensional and large seen from a distance. Everyone has the right to a point of view, but the decision should be made on the basis of the main goal, and not on the basis of someone else's reasoning, although they also have a rational kernel.
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 16 December 2015 09: 53
    0
    Poor people. They happened to live in an era of change. And not somewhere out there, for thousands of kilometers. And at home. It is a pity the region, it does not have a normal future.
  • Niki
    Niki 16 December 2015 09: 54
    0
    The entire sad process described in the article was done with great disregard for the global nature of the crisis. If there is a buyer for the goods (in this case, steel and other alloys), then production could be restored and logistics for sale.
    But there is one big BUT - the procurement needs of all this are greatly reduced.
    There are problems with stopping production not only for the Donbass, but also for Russia, where then who will we blame? Sanctions? Sanctions in production were introduced selectively. What they want to buy from Russia has not come under sanctions.

    And even further, it should be said that the decline in purchases of steel products in the Donbass arose even before 2014. And as I just wrote, it concerned not only the Donbass.
  • Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 16 December 2015 10: 44
    +4
    Article minus. Because the basis of the article, as the main thesis, lies fundamental stupidity - the identification of New Russia and two regions of the East of Ukraine. The Novorossiya project included the entire Southeast, which is an integrated structure, self-sufficient in all respects.
    Therefore, the conclusions in the article are fundamentally wrong. We must not negotiate but to conquer our territories from Ukraine.
    1. Banshee
      16 December 2015 15: 05
      0
      Quote: Egor-dis
      It is necessary not to negotiate but to win their territories from Ukraine.


      Go, win.
      1. Egor-dis
        Egor-dis 16 December 2015 19: 53
        +1
        Such an argument always arises when there is essentially nothing to object, and the ChSV does not allow to remain silent.
        Did I miss anything? Was there an order for an offensive? Minsk officially buried? Or can everyone now decide on their own when to advance and what to conquer?
  • Aragorn
    Aragorn 16 December 2015 10: 48
    +1
    [/ Quote]
    And why then all of Ukraine, if the masses there are not homogeneous, etc.? If there is a fermentation among the masses of people, then this process must be headed and the final goal indicated, thereby rallying the undecided masses of people to advance towards this goal, this was not done by anyone [/ quote]

    What is the country where the masses are homogeneous?
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 16 December 2015 11: 02
      0
      Quote: Aragorn
      What is the country where the masses are homogeneous?

      China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia for example
      1. would
        would 17 December 2015 01: 18
        +1
        At a minimum, China and Japan drop out of this list, especially China with its ethnic problems. Uyghurs are only the most visible ethnic problem.
      2. Editor
        Editor 17 December 2015 07: 14
        +1
        Malaysia is not homogeneous. Nobody canceled the concept of "bumiputra".
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 December 2015 12: 48
    +1
    Therefore, Novorossia must be taken all. Blood lovers of infants are easy to eliminate.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • surrozh
    surrozh 16 December 2015 13: 04
    +1
    The author is a plus for the raised topic. But he himself raises questions, he himself and answers (about the economic necessity of joining other areas). I believe that the issue of Novorossiya is not closed, it is just that the fruit is not ripe to be eaten (added). Ukrovlast with Biden and Merkel are completely discredited, as are the ATO battalions (go at least to the "Censor"), people are waiting for the last "dream come true" - the Euroassociation. It should not be better, but economic ties in such conditions can improve. And Minsk-2 in terms of decentralization, amnesty, elections with the payment of pensions and other "special status" also plays into the hands of the LDNR, and then Novorossia! I completely agree with the "Banshee" - there is a race for survival, Putin's defeat is like death.
  • Wolka
    Wolka 16 December 2015 13: 12
    0
    but it was precisely about this that the GDP warned about 3 years ago, when Ukraine stubbornly wanted to join the EU, but the words were not used for good, now they have what they have ...
  • Isk1984
    Isk1984 16 December 2015 13: 35
    0
    It was necessary then to reap and reap 14 more in the spring, and there was no blood and problems, all areas, well, maybe without Rivne, Lviv, would have been in the DPR and LPR for a long time and there were no problems ... So that they would not say there, but I say yes, the Donbass merged our elite, blinked the Maidan, and indeed the moment was completely missed when the right sectors were raised in Ukraine to climb out, we have no patriotic power, the Kremlin and Putin’s defenders are clear, Donbass washed up with blood, but nothing good ... They know how to cut budgets, nothing more, they sold the country as best they could since the 90s, and you don’t have to say, but in the 90s, and oil in the 90s cost 10 that's all, they changed Khodarkovsky to Sechin, and the Rotenbergs made the country out of it and other levels, which are snoring and ... well, and these excuses, there is no strength to deal with 5 if they have a hard time fighting, at all at the opening of the Yeltsin Center, everyone who was in power from 90 directly or indirectly stood , smiling, but helli then do not smile everything is fine, bills in millions, houses in Switzerland kids they study right there, under capitalism, everything above us is fighting for the people and the main thing for Russians is to cut and fuck grandmothers ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 16 December 2015 19: 03
      -1
      Donbass simply slowed down with a referendum on joining Russia, if he did it at the same time as the Crimea, there wouldn’t be any war there.
      1. I am Russian
        I am Russian 16 December 2015 19: 09
        +1
        Do you even know how the annexation of Crimea to Russia went? "Polite people" did not provide it (referendum) ?? what

        A referendum was held in Transnistria 20 years ago, and what ???
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 16 December 2015 13: 46
    0
    25 lards are not lying on the road.
    KIEV, December 16 - RIA Novosti. The drilling rigs and the Tavrida platform, which are located off the coast of Crimea, are the property of Ukraine, which reserves the right to claim damages, the country's foreign ministry said in a statement.
    The border service of the FSB of Russia on Tuesday sent a second-rank patrol ship "Amethyst" to protect the drilling rigs of "Chernomorneftegaz" on the Black Sea shelf after interference in their work by ships of the border guard service and the Ukrainian Navy.
    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20151216/1342959391.html#ixzz3uTn0PzN6
  • vladek64
    vladek64 16 December 2015 15: 11
    +1
    “We are all here as one for the republic. But we understand that today we don’t need a republic at all. There’s no way for us to provide materials and work. There’s no way to sell the result of our work and provide us materially. Why then are we here?”


    Why then such a republic?
    Who needs it? Russia - no, Ukraine - no, it’s no longer needed by its own residents.

    Maybe it's time to decide all the same: WHAT is it all about?
    What idea is the People’s Republic built around?

    Because the republic working for the oligarch and paying taxes on the maintenance of the enemy’s army cannot be PEOPLE !!!

    There is no benefit to the people. There is an obvious gesheft of a crook, fooling people!
  • Rednek
    Rednek 16 December 2015 15: 52
    -2
    If not our corrupt liberals in power, in the sense in Kiev, then Donbass and Crimea would have returned home ... and it remains for them to wander the prodigal sons ...
  • tao
    tao 16 December 2015 17: 06
    +1
    Exit: recognize the LPR and DPR as sovereign states.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 17 December 2015 16: 24
      0
      No one will recognize them - that is the problem.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 16 December 2015 17: 08
    -1
    There is also the Dnieper cascade of hydroelectric power stations. Also a gift not for schoolchildren.
    There is still a huge number of chemical industries of various kinds - and half are capable of such effects that Bhopal seems like a slight flatulence.

    You read that an intelligent person writes, and there are no problems who leaked whom or not. I’m not imagining much. But, somewhere in the thickness of the dam, there is not a bad charge. It should be, just in case (WWII experience, when not everywhere installed). And takes off into the air, that's all, on signal, and possibly from Kiev. And the nuclear power plant will probably be more complicated than the government. Again, the logic, because of the value and danger of the object, the protection there, can stay until the rods are removed from the reactor. And, what, before Lviv? Radiation, won't take us? And, to hell with him, what will wash off half?
    Do you think in Moscow they don’t understand this? Do you think Washington does not understand that even without nuclear weapons, the capture of Russia is not possible? Given, how would it be, that the industrial potential of my country is somewhat different? And, therefore, they are trying to ruin us from the inside with all sorts of bulk. There it is. It remains for us to gain patience and hope that the Kremlin will find a way out of the situation.
  • potalevl
    potalevl 16 December 2015 18: 18
    0
    Dear moderators! I turned to the author of the article, asking me to explain to me what I was wrong in in my commentary on the article itself and its author, but apparently I will not wait for these explanations. I ask you to return my comment to the site, since in my opinion it was deleted unreasonably (see my explanations for the word provocateur). If the authors of the article will accept every disagreement with their point of view as a personal insult, then it makes no sense to conduct discussions on this or that issue, and take the authors' point of view for the ultimate truth. Something like this.
  • Prutkov
    Prutkov 16 December 2015 19: 24
    -2
    Article "plus". Finally it began to come to light that everything was not easy. In Ukraine, it is now a fashionable phrase that "the United States and Russia will fight to the last Ukrainian." And they rightly say that this is only the First Ukrainian Front in the Third World War. There is already a Syrian front. Everything needs resources. Say: "New Russia along the eastern bank of the Dnieper and the northern coast of the Black Sea." Clear. Who will feed these 20 million people and how? Who will be the goods that are produced in this area? The entire aggregate West could not support such a "great" country as Georgia, where the population is just something like in Kiev and its surroundings. And now proud Georgia sits quietly on the priest and does not stutter about any sanctions, and the great and terrible president-dictator is hiding from Interpol in the steppes of Ukraine. I would bless them with Russian tourists that they cannot live without Caucasian, Turkish hospitality. Fortunately, the dictator-president built everything there, however, he forgot to return the loans. What can we say about 45 million Ukrainian citizens? Today, such a burden will not be pulled by any economy in the world. Moreover, Russia. Even 20 years ago, I would have believed in the reality of the integration of the economies of Russia and Ukraine. It seems impossible now. Each country has locked onto itself all economic cycles. Russia with great difficulty integrates Crimea with 2 million, not 40 million. No one can completely "swallow" Ukraine. And VVP understood this and "did not come to the war." Now they are going to swallow Ukraine in parts. With that, Biden came. Glory to the United States of Ukraine! In general, not all is lost. With the correct formulation of the question, there will be the state of Novorossiya and the state of Little Russia. And then we'll see ...
  • Prutkov
    Prutkov 16 December 2015 19: 28
    0
    I watched the recording of the meeting at which Avakov had a fight with Saakashvili. What I can note is that the working language in the Ukrainian order is the hated Russian language ... Ukraine will not go anywhere from Russia. The main thing is that Russia remains in place. But the Ruin will pass ... This has already happened in the history of the country. It lasted a long time, but passed.
  • sazda
    sazda 16 December 2015 20: 25
    -3
    Good article. Correct. Ukraine will not be able to hold out for long without Donbass. As well as Donbass without Ukraine. The only question is who will be the first to "blink."
  • Radikal
    Radikal 16 December 2015 20: 55
    +1
    Quote: fraer
    Quote: Banshee
    Our business is that Donbass be the second, and Ukraine jumps to the finish line first.

    The values ​​are not equivalent. Ukraine, though rotten by its government, but with its industry.
    You won’t undermine it from the inside. Only from the outside. And Russia does not even make any attempt to do this.
    Donbass. Half-destroyed industry is tied to a greater extent, if not all, to Ukraine. And in any war, the one who has a stronger rear wins.
    But there is no need to wait until Ukraine itself is bent, as very large uncles are watching over it. request

    Zurabov? winked
  • German Titov
    German Titov 16 December 2015 21: 04
    +3
    Conversation with an "acquaintance" from Kiev (he used to be a friend) (last November). "When you calm down. I am ready to take the machine gun and come to calm you down personally." I "At the same time, remember the Mirali pass, where I got your ass, Oleg, took it out of the fire. Now you have 2 daughters, whom you are looking for sons-in-law. Calm down the" Natsiks "let's talk." He "where did you see the Natsiks?" The answer is "in Kiev on February 14, returning from the hospital, they roamed about the station in hordes" ("SK" until now. A friend from Nikolaev, Vitya (also a former friend) (April 2015) "You do not decide anything there, you have Chechens all .... t and rob everyone. "I" Where did you get this? "He" U "me plaminnyk at Marintsi is fighting in the ATO, I know wines. Yogo komandavannya piled up" plasma ", I know." he did not pay attention to the fact that our streets are being cleaned and the roads are being repaired. In July, Vitya called (as they say "in snot and tears" - "he saw his leg"). I may not quite diplomatically answered that the "nephew" there will be time to look at the "stolen" plasma. Also "SK". As people tell me "from the other side" the enterprise "Nova Poshta" is ready to work around the clock, sending stolen stolen goods in Donbass. A month of service at the checkpoint, you can earn up to 70000 UAH. (as a soldier) How many knights of the "Bandarization Service of Ukraine" "rake" it is very simple to calculate (10 UAH per kilogram of transported cargo (withentrepreneurs). They will leave this war in footcloths from Versace. Nobody wants (except for locals, local) for this Holiday (war) to end. Sorry for a lot of buckoffs)))
  • German Titov
    German Titov 16 December 2015 22: 24
    +1
    And I "plus" this article also because, in fact, the "potential of Donbass" has not been fully explored. We are not "Japanese and not Chinese" - we have resources "to the hiba" (mono cheating). Under the "damned Union", the question was considered "On the provision of gas to the Donetsk region, due to the" degassing of coal seams. "Normally, the topic did not go well. As in Genetics. New" thinking "came to Donbass. It costs good money to "charge the lava"). Under "Chuchma" we helped the Polish miners = closing our mines. I will "offhand" name at least 3 mines where equipment was brought in and which were mothballed. I can answer.
    My ancestors came to Donbass before the Great Patriotic War. We came from the Oryol region (it was hungry - the answer to the "th Holodomor" (everyone was starving), - I consider it a farce to build the tragedy "as if into something unusual" (we are now getting these highs (farces)). The thing is, "brothers and sisters "I am" floating away to work "
  • Killj
    Killj 16 December 2015 22: 59
    -3
    And in fact, the Kremlin’s kgbists took advantage of the Donbass in waging a war there (I hope everyone knows who Girkin is and what office he is with?) And now, little by little, there’s an understanding that nothing matters to them ...
    1. midivan
      midivan 17 December 2015 04: 52
      +4
      Quote: KillJ
      And in fact, the Kremlin’s kgbists took advantage of the Donbass in waging a war there (I hope everyone knows who Girkin is and what office he is with?) And now, little by little, there’s an understanding that nothing matters to them ...

      yeah and gunpowder and to, along with amerikosami and geyropoy cross-stitch at this time?
  • midivan
    midivan 17 December 2015 04: 50
    +3
    smile I am not a businessman and without higher education, but all the same, if theoretically, let's say, we buy a coal from Donbass and it's kind of superfluous and sell this "surplus" to China but! for example, from Kuzbass, and the one that Kuzbass sends us to the middle zone of Russia and closer to the south, you will get savings on transportation costs (the difference in the distance of 2 thousand km Donbass-middle lane, from 4-3500 thousand km from Moscow to Kuzbass), as well and with iron, that is, to ship and sell our iron and coal by sea, the difference mined (produced) in the Donbass? do not blame me at school the primer smoked repeat
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 17 December 2015 05: 31
      0
      Quote: midivan
      if theoretically, let's say, we buy a coal from the Donbass and it's kind of superfluous and sell this "surplus" to China but! for example, from Kuzbass, and the one that Kuzbass sends us to central Russia and closer to the south, you will get savings on transportation costs (the difference in the distance of 2 thousand km Donbass-middle strip, from 4-3500 thousand km from Moscow to Kuzbass)

      Theoretically, it could work, but the fact is that China does not feel the need for coal imports. On the contrary - gradually abandons its own in favor of Russian gas. It is more comfortable.

      The iron and steel industry is also oversaturated - a crisis, however.

      BUT - if the Russian Federation seriously intends to engage in import substitution - the capacities of metallurgy and mechanical engineering of not only the Donbass, but also the whole of Ukraine may well be in demand. In any case, they were not idle in the USSR.

      And so - machine building must be restored, agricultural equipment production - necessary, aircraft manufacturing - also necessary (this is some kind of shame - Russia flies on Boeings and Airbases!), Tank building ... Everywhere there is a failure after Yeltsin (if he was posthumously aspen), everything needs to be either restored - or already recreated.

      It’s not in China that metal is bought for these purposes ...