Military Review

We are all from Adam and Eve, we are all from the same ship ... (part of 2)

92
For our heathen supporters,
For babbling babies days

(Their speech was our speech,
While we did not know her)
("By birth" by Rudyard Joseph Kipling)


In Europe, 67-marker haplotypes of the R1a1 haplogroup were analyzed, which helped determine the approximate direction of migration of this group of people in its territory. And it turned out that, starting from Iceland and up to and including Greece, the haplogroup R1a1 about 7500 years ago had a common ancestor! And his descendants, like a baton, passed each other their haplotypes to their other descendants, diverging from one historical region - the territory of the Balkan Peninsula or the Black Sea region. Specifically, these were Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia, and Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia were involved here. This is the area of ​​the most ancient haplotypes of the haplogroup R1a1. And the most mutated haplotypes show us the time when it was: 7500 thousands of years ago, when there were no Slavs, no Germans, no Celts.

We are all from Adam and Eve, we are all from the same ship ... (part of 2)

Pottery pit culture.

Interestingly, DNA genealogy allowed us to learn that for many thousands of years those distant ancestors of the people of our time lived sufficiently sedentary, and did not move anywhere much. And if some fidgets and migrated, then their traces in the haplotypes left. But it is certain that about 6 thousands of years ago, the massive movement of nations suddenly began, which left its traces in stories peoples of all Europe - and this, above all, was the migration of Indo-Europeans. And all this was connected with the development of the economy and ... the emergence of new labor tools, as it was written in the textbook on the history of the Ancient World for the 5 class of Soviet historians Agibalov and Donskoy. Interestingly, the linguistic affiliation of many archaeological cultures of Europe has not yet been clarified. Although today we know that of the former many Paleo-European languages ​​in Europe, only the Basque language has been preserved, and still a certain part of the vocabulary in the languages ​​of the peoples of northern Europe.


Germans in Europe. Genetic geography clearly shows that the most typical of the Germans genotype should be sought today in Iceland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. That is, the Germans - it is ... Danes, Swedes and Norwegians!

So it was from the Balkans and from the Black Sea that people of the Yamna and Tripoli cultures diverged, and this happened 6-5 thousands of years ago, that is, in the third or fourth millennium BC. Where until now, the haplogroup R1a1 was quite difficult to say, but, most likely, it came to Europe ... from Asia, because there was no other place to go here.

Well, if you look at individual countries, for example, in Germany, the basic 67-marker haplotype also has its characteristic mutations, and they show that the same Germans were divided from Eastern Slavs again about 6 thousands of years ago. About 14% of people with haplogroup (R1a1-M458) live in Germany today, but in certain areas there are more than a third. The rest of the German population has the “Scandinavian” haplogroup I1 (28%) and the purely “Western European” R1b1a2 (39%).


Italo-Celts in Europe. The most typical Celts live today in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, on the Cornwall peninsula in England and Brittany in France, in Spain in the Barcelona region and in the Poitou region, and in the valleys of Andorra. And in Italy, yes, there are too, in the north, but not in the south! And what if this is not a consequence of the pressure of ancient migrants from the East ?!

The ancestor of modern Norwegians in present-day Norway inhabited 4500 years ago. In Norway, the proportion of R1a1-Z284 currently averages from 18 to 25% of the population. In addition, there are Scandinavian I1 (41%) and Western European R1b1a2 (28%) haplogroup. Norwegians have a subclade of this ancient haplogroup R1a1-Z284.

In England, the ancestors of modern media R1a1 also lived 4500 years ago, as in Germany. But for England and in general for the British Isles not too many descendants of R1a1 are typical. They are here all from 2% to 9% on all islands. The Western European haplogroup R1b (71%) and the Scandinavian haplogroup I1 (16%) dominate here.


Red hair in Europe. Oh, as you can see, the red hair gene was not born in Europe, but beyond the Urals. Why? Yes, because there was no return migration, but there was a migration to Europe from beyond the Urals! And the most redheads settled again on the "edge of Europe", where the Celts are! And it may very well be that these peoples from outside the Urals moved to the regions of Hallstatt and La Tene and gave rise to Celtic culture. And the Celts, in turn, went further to the West, but they remained there!

Irish haplotypes for the haplogroup R1a1 are considered the oldest in Western Europe, and in the British Isles as well. The reason is the presence of a unique subclade L664. Much says that the settlement of these territories was very early, and that the ancient Irish R1a1 were luckier than the mainland. But now in Ireland there are very few carriers of the haplogroup R1a1, no more than 2-4% of the population, and three quarters belong to the Western European haplogroup R1b1a2.

To master the northern, cold and mountainous Scotland took time. Here, the ancestor of the modern subclade haplogroup R1a1 lived 4300 years ago. In Scotland, the number of descendants of R1a1 decreases from north to south. In the north, on the Shetland Islands, their 27%, and there the number is reduced to 2-5% in the south of the country. On average, there are about 6% there. All the rest, from two thirds to three quarters, are carriers of the Western European haplogroup R1b.


Haplogroup R1a-M458 and its distribution in Europe.

In Poland, the common ancestor of the haplogroup R1a1 lived about 5000 years ago (subclades R1a1-M458 and Z280). And today in Poland, representatives of the haplogroup R1a1 make up about 56%, and in some places up to 62%. The rest are the Western European haplogroup R1b (12%), the Scandinavian haplogroup I1 (17%) and the Baltic haplogroup N1c1 (8%).


Haplogroup R1a-Y93 and its distribution in Europe.

On the territory of such countries as the Czech Republic and Slovakia, the age of the common Slavic ancestor for them is 4200 years. However, it turns out that the resettlement of our common ancestors on the territory of such modern states as Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia took place literally over several generations. In archeology, such a high accuracy of dating is absolutely unthinkable today, but genetics can provide such accuracy.


Haplogroup R1a-Z93 in Asia. Judging by this scheme, the “most Russians” are there, these are ... Kyrgyz and ... South Afghans!

Interestingly, in the ancient rich burials of the Magyars, the remains of men with the haplogroup N1c1, who were undoubtedly the first tribal leaders, were found, and all of them were newcomers.

That is, it turns out that the common ancestor of the haplogroup R1a lived in Europe 5000-5500 years ago, but it is still impossible to establish this more accurately. Well, the common European ancestor, not counting the Balkan region - the supposed ancestral homeland of all Indo-Europeans, lived there even earlier - about 7500 years ago. However, the archaeological cultures of all these periods are known to us, and there is no discussion of any greater development of any of them, that is, the level of all was approximately the same and is again connected with the habitat. Those who lived in the forests did not need horses, the inhabitants of the near-lake areas lived in pile settlements, the monasteries of the steppes moved on horses and chariots.

It should be borne in mind that haplotypes are different for ancestors everywhere, their subclades are also characteristic for different regions. And here we meet with an interesting point: the peoples of Altai and many Turkic peoples are also characterized by high percentages of the haplogroup R1a1. For example, for the Bashkirs 40% reaches the subclade Z2123. The R1a1 haplogroup is also represented in the Sayano-Altai region, and among the local Turkic population of Central Asia. For the same Kyrgyz, it reaches 63%. But they have nothing to do with Russians or Iranians!

It turns out the entire haplogroup R1a1 to call one name is wrong, and to identify only with the Slavs - to show ignorance. After all, haplogroups are not ethnos, they are not associated with either the linguistic or the ethnicity of their carrier. Haplogroups also have no direct relation to the genes. For example, this haplogroup is R1a1-Z93, is typical of the Arabs, and for the Levites - subgroups Ashkenazi Jews (they also confirmed subclade CTS6), and another for the Armenians - subclade R1a1-Z93, although among them there and R1a1-Z282.

By the way, in Asia Minor, a common ancestor with the presence of the haplogroup R1a1 lived about 6500 years ago, so that both Armenians and Anatolians have a common ancestor, or several ancestors that are very close in time, only within several generations - a subclade Z93 and Z282. It should be noted that the period in 4500 years before the common ancestor of the haplogroup R1a1-Z93 in Anatolia correlates well with the time when Hittites appear there, although a number of lines R1a1-Z93 could well have appeared there after the migration of the Turkic peoples into our era.

Well, the conclusion is as follows: the initial area of ​​the haplogroup R1a1 in Europe is the territory of Eastern Europe and, possibly, the Black Sea lowland. Before that, probably, its representatives lived in Asia, for example, in South Asia, and maybe even in North China, from where they eventually moved to the West, that is, to Europe and to Forward Asia.

However, this is not the most important conclusion. The main thing is this: today there is enough scientific data in order to, by combining the efforts of genetics, archeology and linguistics, to create a coherent and reasonably substantiated history of the development of mankind. Moreover, it has long been established and today it is only developing and deepening. Attempts to play on some separate inconsistencies and speculate what the evidence in the complex of all these three disciplines is not - meaningless exercise, designed for simpletons. Attempts to udrevnya history of individual nations should also be attributed to the field of politics (and here, by the way, it was Hitler who showed a very bad example!) And purely human envy: we are not the very best today, well, so be comforted by the fact that we were the greatest yesterday! But it is clear that such an approach has nothing to do with historical science, just as the “study” of the earthly “women of the golden and reptiloid section”. Although, yes, today there are books where people even write about it!
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 16 December 2015 06: 47 New
    +3
    Attempts to play on some separate inconsistencies and conjecture what there is no evidence in the complex of all these three disciplines is a meaningless lesson designed for simpletons.... That's right, that's exactly what is happening now ... thanks for the article ...
    1. Malkor
      Malkor 16 December 2015 14: 29 New
      +1
      the author does not indicate in vain that r1a1 is the ancestor of r1b1, and not vice versa
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 16 December 2015 20: 32 New
        +2
        Where is this from? The author does not indicate correctly. If only because the haplogroup ciphers are "lengthened" according to the sequence of mutations. If R1 is divided into R1a and R1b, how can their "heirs" R1a1 and R1b1 give birth to each other? In other words, how can "cousins" be "father and son" -? The only thing that confused me in the article was that the author declares the Balkans to be the center of distribution of R1a, and even the Northern Black Sea region is its periphery. And then he "wonders" how the R1a subclades "conquered" Iran / Afghanistan, and "dug in" in the Pamir "fortress" up to our days. With the center in the Balkans, it really looks more than strange - the Great Steppe and the Southern Mountains sprout from the fabulous Balkan climate. But if we accept the point of view that the epicenter of R1a is relatively speaking the South Urals and the south of Western Siberia, then everything falls into place. And the Balkans of that time was just the R1b concentrator, which gave birth to the Celts and Greek Achaeans: the first R1a-Schnicks were pushed to the far west, the latter responded by capturing Morea, finishing off the Minoan civilization, the same most likely founded by R1a along the Hittite-Asia Minor route. The classic confrontation between the heirs of R1b and R1a is the confrontation between the Achaeans and the Minoans / Trojans, the confrontation between the Gauls and Etruscans.
        1. Litsvin
          Litsvin 16 December 2015 23: 56 New
          +2
          Read at least Anatoli Klyosov - there are answers to your questions. He writes intelligibly and simply "without volumes on ethnogenetics." Please read carefully.
          1. kalibr
            23 January 2016 16: 02 New
            -1
            It is intelligible, but unscientific!
  2. aviamed90
    aviamed90 16 December 2015 08: 07 New
    +3
    Interesting article.

    And how does the "theory" that the homeland of mankind is Africa (according to one version) or the north of Russia (according to another) fit into this?

    TV offers these 2 theories as a chewing gum for the population quite aggressively. Proof - numerous documentaries on this subject.

    Where is the truth?
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 16 December 2015 08: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: aviamed90
      Where is the truth?

      "In vino veritas, in aqua sanitas".
      1. moskowit
        moskowit 16 December 2015 08: 25 New
        0
        "You speak the truth, my son." Joke...
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 16 December 2015 10: 05 New
      +1
      The author talks about the development of one of the youngest haplogroups R1A1. The oldest haplogroups A and B, according to scientists, came from Africa.
    3. kalibr
      16 December 2015 10: 08 New
      0
      Films are not proof. Deniken also made a very good film "Memories of the Future", and not alone ... and what did he prove?
      1. xtur
        xtur 16 December 2015 23: 20 New
        +2
        > Armenians and Anatolians have a common ancestor, or several ancestors very close in time, only within several generations - subclades Z93 and Z282

        In Armenia, Levon Yepiskoposyan is engaged in similar studies,
        http://ru.hayazg.info/Епископосян_Левон_Михайлович

        he is in the structure of the Academy. On the Internet there is a series of videos with his participation, where he talks about his studies, which are always joint with Western scientists.

        Most of his research is available through these films and several popular articles, although a smaller part is the features of the Armenian Internet.

        So - the Armenians are very different from the Turks and Azerbaijanis, and the Armenians do not have a single father, our people were formed as a result of mixing different nations about 5 years ago. But at the same time, the Armenian autochthons, for example, in Karabakh, about 000% of the population are descendants of the first immigrants from Africa, another 40% came at about the turn of 30 BC.
        1. Xent
          Xent 20 December 2015 10: 25 New
          0
          I can’t understand in any way what this is about ... At one time I read a lot of different scientific works, and all great minds say that out of a mixture of several peoples a new people will not work, there will always be one to dominate. So all this cannot be a scientific approach. There is another version. Why Armenians have grains from almost all Indo-European peoples both in genetics and in language analysis.
          We also need to look at the latest archaeological news, which shows that in all probability people did not come from Africa to Asia, but from Asia to Africa!
    4. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 16 December 2015 11: 21 New
      +4
      The article describes the migration of modern man over the past 10 thousand years, and came from Africa much earlier, so what is incomprehensible?
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 16 December 2015 20: 46 New
        +1
        Yes, everything is not clear. Or rather bullshit. What the hell is Africa? Have you lived in the tropics yourself? Not to mention the equator ... Our genotype there is just oh .. sorry, it suffers a lot physically. Even an ancient Ukrainian would not have gone to Africa, even in the days of the dinosaurs :)) They just got these "African" fairy tales. That skin turns white (from snow or what?). Then the iris of the eyes from dark brown / black is repainted in blue / green / light gray / brown. Why 4 different types? - And the Northern Lights! - say the adepts of origin from the monkey Lucy. -Who blinked the first time, and colored, poor fellow. Our homeland is the north of Eurasia. Therefore, Russia still sounds like Rasa, and the Ras-leopard is a sacred symbol of the ancient dynasties of Asia Minor and the Mediterranean (Minoans), and Rys still runs in our forests. And if we begin to disagree with the supporters of the "African ancestral home" (well, what for is such a stepmother to us), then how are we immediately defamed? - Praaalno, they call them racists. That is, a proper name.
    5. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 16 December 2015 16: 54 New
      +1
      Moreover, genetics has proven that the "progenitor of Lucy" has nothing to do with us and is a dead-end branch from a common ancestor. And that "Darwin's theory" is just a clumsy hypothesis with no actual basis. Yes, a lot of things that are taught have been refuted by the scientists themselves. Only this is not said.
      1. kalibr
        16 December 2015 18: 01 New
        +1
        Why not say? And it is said and written. But it’s not the Lord God who whispered in your ears, right? You know, I know, others know ... where? And regarding Darwin's theory, there are many very interesting additions that develop it on new archaeological material!
    6. Aleks.Antonov
      Aleks.Antonov 16 December 2015 19: 32 New
      +1
      We are talking about different time periods. This article is about events over a period of 7500 years. And the outcome from Africa was about 80000 years ago. True, this was the second outcome. Apart from the exodus of the Jews from Egypt.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 16 December 2015 20: 54 New
        0
        And then the first exodus of Jews "from Igiptu"? previously 80? This is a tenacious ethnic group! Just beauties! Although the arrival in Palestine was most likely from Africa. It has nothing to do with us, the grandchildren of "Prince Rosh", the sons of "Gog and Magog" (as these same immigrants from Africa called us). And he also has nothing to do with the then "Palestinians" whom Naveen later laid down "under saws and axes" in whole cities.
    7. Aljavad
      Aljavad 17 December 2015 00: 32 New
      0
      aviamed90 SU Today, 08:07 AM New
      Interesting article.

      And how does the "theory" that the homeland of mankind is Africa (according to one version) or the north of Russia (according to another) fit into this?

      TV offers these 2 theories as a chewing gum for the population quite aggressively. Proof - numerous documentaries on this subject.

      Where is the truth?


      First, as prof. Preobrazhensky, do not read Soviet newspapers before dinner. And only watch Zadornov on TV (he is a humorist). And the "numerous documentaries" on this topic are not documentaries, but (kind of softer ...) copyright.
      Africa was 40.000, 100.000, and more years ago. And the author tells us about the Neolithic period - 7.500, 5.500, etc. years ago.

      And truth is an abstract concept. It is either there or not. She is everywhere and nowhere.

      That is where the truth is.
    8. Theline
      Theline 15 October 2016 12: 02 New
      0
      Well, as you already know, Cro-Magnons came from Africa. There you have the truth.
  3. V.ic
    V.ic 16 December 2015 08: 17 New
    +1
    Add a plus to the author. It is necessary to re-read both articles on a calm mind and comprehend the contents.
  4. moskowit
    moskowit 16 December 2015 08: 28 New
    +2
    Yes, this article should be pondered "with a pencil in hand". Too many number-symbolic groups. And so it is very interesting.
  5. IS-80
    IS-80 16 December 2015 08: 48 New
    +4
    It turns out that the entire haplogroup R1a1 is incorrectly called by one name, and to identify only with the Slavs is to show ignorance.

    And how correctly? Three, four, ten? If someone is offended by something, let him pass by. This is a science, not a ballet of political correctness.
    After all, haplogroups are not ethnic groups, they are not connected either with the linguistic or ethnic affiliation of their bearer.

    How not connected, if connected? Invalid. Not tightly bound, yes.
    In the same Kyrgyz, it reaches 63%. But they have nothing to do with Russians or Iranians!

    How is it? But what about - "We are all from Adam and Eve, we are all from the same ship ..." and "Judging by this scheme, the" most Russian "there are ... Kyrgyz and ... southern Afghans"?
    Well, the common European ancestor, apart from the Balkan region - the alleged ancestral home of all Indo-Europeans, lived there even earlier - about 7500 years ago.

    A common ancestor, if you take for R1a and R1b - R1 lived 25-30 thousand years ago, if you add N and I then it’s still ancient.
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 12: 00 New
      0
      I didn’t put you a minus, not me !!!
    2. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 16 December 2015 19: 33 New
      +1
      Kyrgyz came to Central Asia relatively recently - after the wars with the Mongol tribes and the Russians. A few centuries ago, the Khakass, Altaians and Kyrgyz were a single people. The ancient Chinese described the ancient Kyrgyz who lived in Altai as fair-haired and blue-eyed.

      So, in principle, it is believed in these studies that once again confirm our history.
      1. DarkRiver
        DarkRiver 17 December 2015 07: 49 New
        0
        Geneticists have a term - "bottleneck", this is a situation when a people experiences a catastrophic decline in numbers due to any reason. The peoples were very few in ancient times and lived compactly. For example, a man survives, who, thanks to some talents, gives birth to numerous offspring, to which he extends his haplogroup. These descendants will be the forefathers of an entire people. Moreover, the haplogroup will not necessarily be characteristic of the inhabitants of these places. So, for example, it is believed that Indo-European-Scandinavians acquired the "non-Indo-European" haplogroup I1. A similar story may have taken place with the Kyrgyz.
  6. Free wind
    Free wind 16 December 2015 08: 51 New
    +2
    I do not think that there is a Slavic gene, Russian, German, etc. the appearance depends on the parents, on the genes, yes, white black, maybe the character too, but there is no gene inherent only in Russian. But the female gene differs from the male by 6-8 percent, and the male gene from the gene of the male chimpanzee by 2% !!!!
  7. xorgi
    xorgi 16 December 2015 08: 51 New
    -20
    Why is there a fascist article on VO? How is haplogroup R1a1 better than the rest? or worse? We are great not because we have certain genes, but because in 1945 when the population ate potato peeling, we took Berlin, and already in 1961 we launched a man into space.
    1. IS-80
      IS-80 16 December 2015 08: 55 New
      +7
      Quote: xorgi
      Why is there a fascist article on VO?

      Where did you find fascism in the article? Vyacheslav Olegovich, on the contrary, is too politically correct.
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 16 December 2015 09: 16 New
        -4
        I repeat: Why is the haplogroup R1a1 highlighted? How is she better than the rest? or worse?
        1. kalibr
          16 December 2015 10: 20 New
          +2
          Nothing! It's just that there was an article on VO that the Russians, roughly speaking, are the most ancient and cultural, that they are being pushed in, that Western historians have slandered us from head to toe, that we are from Arctania, Arctida or somewhere else ... So there was a need to show that there is politics and there is science. That is why, by the way, the captions under the maps have not been changed (although I could have done it), that everything was taken from English-language sites, where it is considered this way. If you don’t understand this, well ... I’m not to blame, most of the site visitors understood everything as it should, and hence the conclusion: "the fascist party has gotten here", it's time to call the FSB!
        2. alebor
          alebor 16 December 2015 10: 28 New
          +6
          It is no better or worse, it is just widespread in Eastern Europe and therefore it is "more dear" for us than any that is widespread, for example, in Africa or Australia. There is nothing reprehensible if you are interested in "yours" a little more than "strangers".
          If, for example, an Englishman is interested in the history or culture of England more than Italy or Russia, should he be declared a "fascist" for this?
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 16 December 2015 10: 30 New
          +7
          Because R1A1 is a Slavic haplogroup, and you need to know your history first of all. Although, of course, one should briefly talk about all haplogroups, otherwise untrained readers may have a mess in their head.
        5. V.ic
          V.ic 16 December 2015 10: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: xorgi
          or worse?

          Indeed, what is better / worse is anion or cation, alkali or acid, the front side of the paper or the reverse ... You can continue on your own.
          By the way, the expression: "genetics is the corrupt girl of imperialism" is familiar to you?
    2. kalibr
      16 December 2015 10: 12 New
      +1
      Just do not rave, fascism is something completely different!
    3. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 16 December 2015 10: 23 New
      +5
      Where did you see fascism in the article? The haplogroup R1A1 is the main haplogroup for the Slavs and many other peoples, this is just our genetic HISTORY. By the way, if we are talking about fascism, then modern studies of haplogroups have shown that the ancestors of the Aryans were also carriers of R1A1, so the theory of the racial superiority of Hitler’s German nation was completely erroneous, neither the Germans (more precisely, the Western Europeans, since there is no separate German haplogroup), nor the Scandinavians were not close relatives of the Aryans, as it can be considered more likely Slavs.
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 16 December 2015 11: 06 New
        -5
        "R1A1 is a Slavic haplogroup, and you need to know your history first of all"
        "Russians, roughly speaking, are the most ancient and cultural"
        "There is nothing reprehensible if you are interested in yours a little more than in others."
        Horror! Do you think that Russia is only Russians and Slavs? In your opinion, it turns out that we should know the history of the haplogroup of the Slavs, but should not know the history of the Mordovians or Tatars? And you ask where is fascism here? Do you really think that haplogroup R1A1 gives any advantages to us, Russians, over Buryats or Chukchi ???
        1. kalibr
          16 December 2015 11: 40 New
          +1
          Do you want to talk about all the gallogroups common in Russia at once? I'm afraid this is a topic for a monograph and not a small one. And why are you reading so inattentively? I wrote: there was an article about ... the ancestors of Russians. This is essentially the answer to it. And why should I write specifically about Mordovian haplogroups if I myself am not a Mordvin? There is a Mordvin among the visitors to VO - let him write, all for. Or not Chukchi? I willingly believe that the Chukchi are very talented, because they survive where we could not, but I'm not interested in writing about this, that's not interesting, that's all. And about the roots of Russians - the titular nation of Russia and the most numerous - interesting! And enough questions ... There is a saying: one fool can ask more than 100 wise men to answer!
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 16 December 2015 12: 20 New
            -4
            Dear kalibr, I understand that you yourself ranked among the sages, but nevertheless! Do you know when fascism was born in Germany? (no need to pull back and say that there was no fascism in Germany, I'm talking about the philosophical worldview, not about the party) And who stood at its origins? Far from being politicians or revolutionaries, fascism began from geographers, historians, biologists and publicists like you! They extolled eugenics, proved the superiority of some peoples over others on historical examples, argued about the boundaries of the state, titular nations in certain regions of Europe. And everyone said: good - it raises the national spirit, but everything turned out so badly that it probably couldn't be worse for them! You are also speaking now! But unfortunately there is one difference, Germany can only be divided into 38 parts, but Russia can be divided indefinitely into ever smaller and smaller parts: first, you will not take into account the opinion of the Mordovians and Chukchi (they are not on the site!), Then we will talk about the fact that Russians in Russia should live in any region, but we will say to the Buryats "come in large numbers here" (or replace the Buryats with a Dagestani), and then we will argue about who is more important than Moscow or Tver! Don't you think, since you consider yourself a sage, that your "political correctness" and "tolerance" should be thrown out ("I willingly believe that the Chukchi are very talented", ie you are above them and condescendingly admit that the whole nation is equal to you? ) and replace "friendship of peoples" with one (nations are DIFFERENT, but there is no DIFFERENCE between them) ?!
            1. One man
              One man 16 December 2015 12: 27 New
              +4
              All people are different, so conceived "from above", and about all equality - the ideas of the monsters of Blank (terrorist nickname Lenin) and degenerate perverts of Engels and Marx, has long been known in detail and for a long time. Science is something that is difficult to dispute and replace with ideology, especially such a deceitful one as "equality of all".
              1. kalibr
                16 December 2015 12: 50 New
                +1
                By the way, for many years, Americans have been monitoring iQ research. And they found out - the lowest among African blacks! As all kinds of human rights defenders were indignant there, they started talking about fraud, that there are blacks generals, businessmen, the president ... But we are talking about AVERAGE indicators. And even checks by their human rights defenders could not refute this. On average, they were the lowest on the planet! And why so - understandably - the earliest people, the mind did not particularly develop.
                1. xorgi
                  xorgi 16 December 2015 13: 08 New
                  -3
                  "the earliest people, the mind did not develop especially" this is fascism! The mentality, upbringing and education are what these results depend on! And about a not particularly developed mind, you tell Pushkin this!
                  1. Heimdall49
                    Heimdall49 16 December 2015 13: 30 New
                    +5
                    Those. Do you think that a child conceived in a drunken stupor as a result of closely related interbreeding will avoid health and mental development problems with the help of "mentality, upbringing and education"?
                    1. xorgi
                      xorgi 16 December 2015 13: 49 New
                      -2
                      Heimdall49, firstly, do not confuse developmental pathology and inadequate upbringing, and secondly, the names Makarenko, Soroka-Rosinsky, Shatsky do not tell you anything?
                      1. Heimdall49
                        Heimdall49 16 December 2015 14: 02 New
                        +4
                        These names are familiar to me, but the point is that not everything is determined by upbringing and education. There are qualities due to heredity. It is likely that mental development is one of them. Science has not proved the opposite, but reality speaks in favor of this.
                      2. kalibr
                        16 December 2015 14: 08 New
                        +2
                        Even Janusz Korczak from his orphanage expelled children as incorrigible. There was an article about this here. There were few such cases, but they were!
                      3. xorgi
                        xorgi 16 December 2015 14: 40 New
                        +1
                        Magpie-Rosinsky did not refuse a single child!
                      4. Aljavad
                        Aljavad 17 December 2015 00: 53 New
                        +1
                        kalibr RU Today, 14:08 ↑ New
                        Even Janusz Korczak from his orphanage expelled children as incorrigible. There was an article about this here. There were few such cases, but they were!


                        And Makarenko considered it impossible to re-educate girls who knew debauchery ...
                    2. xorgi
                      xorgi 16 December 2015 14: 39 New
                      -7
                      Fortunately, you are wrong, any child with a normal upbringing grows up into a normal person. Not a genius, but an intelligent person.
                    3. Heimdall49
                      Heimdall49 16 December 2015 16: 58 New
                      +4
                      any child with normal education, grows into a normal person

                      No one can prove this statement, and therefore it is completely false.
                      And what does the smart mean - the mind is mind-discord. For the Negro tribe, the Tumba Yumba, the mind is measured in its ability to get an antelope, and for the European it is measured by the presence of advanced degrees. Therefore, it is clear that one nation is more developed and gifted than another. This stems from heredity, because people are the essence of a collection of people united by relatively close family ties.
                    4. Nikolay K
                      Nikolay K 16 December 2015 19: 05 New
                      +2
                      Alas, we are all born with different abilities, physical, mental, moral. Something can be corrected by education, but to a certain level. Otherwise, it would be possible to raise a champion or a doctor of science from any person, but this is not so.
                    5. andrew42
                      andrew42 16 December 2015 21: 44 New
                      0
                      Sayings of completely different (sometimes mutually hostile) peoples, at different times, - they all say the opposite.
            2. Nikolay K
              Nikolay K 16 December 2015 19: 01 New
              0
              The haplogroup R1A1 is one of the youngest, younger than perhaps the sub-European, in what did you see fascism?
      2. kalibr
        16 December 2015 12: 41 New
        +2
        I can only answer all of this: Oh, Lord! Happens...
      3. andrew42
        andrew42 16 December 2015 21: 41 New
        +3
        We do not know when fascism was born in Germany. Because in Germany in the 20s, National Socialism was born. First, you should call a spade a spade. Mussolini had fascism. As for the stereotype of the behavior of the German National Socialists, it is no different from the behavior of the crusaders in Eastern Europe and in the Promised Land, and even earlier the Norman conquerors of England in 1066, and even earlier the Christianizers of Charlemagne, and even earlier the Avar Khaganate, and even earlier, the Biblical Jews during the establishment of dominance in ancient Palestine. The only difference is in the scale of the atrocities in relation to those whom they considered "subhuman". And there is no need to poke around with bogeymen "Nazism", "Fascism" and "Anti-Semitism" indiscriminately of every counter and cross. First, this is simply an ignorant insult to the interlocutor, akin to medieval church obscurantism with its forbidden topics. And secondly, it neutralizes the danger of such phenomena, which is bad. Like in a fairy tale about a boy shouting "Wolves!" Do not scratch the sore once a minute, it will not boil.
  8. kalibr
    16 December 2015 12: 08 New
    +6
    I have time, so I’ll also explain to you the difference between fascism and Nazism. You clearly confuse these two concepts. Fascism is a political ideology based on the total power of the state, the complete subordination of personality to society. This trend is characterized by the presence of a personality cult of the ruler, a one-party management system, and the postulation of the superiority of one nation over other peoples. In its pure form, this regime existed in Italy since Mussolini, Romania, Spain, Portugal, Brazil and other countries.

    Nazism (National Socialism) is a symbiosis of nationalist ideology with state power, as a result of which an extremely right-wing government is formed that is hostile not only to competitors in the struggle for power, but also to other nations. Nazism in its pure form was realized only in Germany during the Third Reich and is currently outlawed as a political ideology.
    Fascism appeared a little earlier than Nazism and at the beginning of its existence was a theoretical concept. Nazism was soon formed in practice due to the refraction of fascist ideas in Germany. Fascism, like nationalism, put the state, its needs and interests at the forefront. Against this background, human rights and personalities were leveled, losing their significance. More details: http://thedifference.ru/otlichie-fashizma-ot-nacizma/
    To find out the roots of any nation and study its culture is not fascism. At the same time, with regard to all nations and cultures, this is physically impossible!
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 14: 13 New
      +2
      Minus is how to understand? Is something wrong written here, or is it what I wrote?
      1. xorgi
        xorgi 16 December 2015 14: 34 New
        -3
        For that, dear kalibr, that you apparently only taught history at school! I do not need to give a lecture on the differences between fascism and National Socialism! I told you about fascist philosophy, about, if you will, views on the advantage of some nationalities over others. I understand that it will be difficult for you, as a sage, to read monographs and scientific articles on history. Try to at least read the geographical works of Friedrich Ratzel, he died, in my opinion somewhere in front of the Russian-Japanese, but fascism appeared exactly on such German works.
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 16 December 2015 15: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: xorgi
          For that, dear kalibr, that you apparently only taught history at school! I do not need to give a lecture on the differences between fascism and National Socialism! ...

          "xorgi", your skirmish with the author of the article is not smart and not appropriate. The thesis about the "fascist article" in the commentary was rolled out by you and also inflated by you. Some time ago / about 80 years of commercials / your monologues would not have been worth on the pages of the party press. Now is the time / to put up labels and smear the opponent with tar / is over.
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 16 December 2015 15: 56 New
            -3
            I continue and will always confront fascism (in all manifestations, against the exaltation of any nationality). You need to be proud of your state, and not a handful of self-identifying nose shapes! And about whether it’s smart or not smart, I’m sorry not for you, kalibr at least defends your point of view, and you got into the argument pointlessly.
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 16 December 2015 21: 52 New
              +1
              Kalibr has already clearly written everything for you. If it gives you pleasure to stick the label "fascism" on everything you hit, then success in the fight against windmills. You can stick "fascism" on your refrigerator, which brutally and mercilessly freezes chicken legs. Meanwhile, a kind of National Socialism is quietly living in China.
        2. kalibr
          16 December 2015 15: 50 New
          0
          You sometimes even go to the profile. There you can read interesting things about those who publish articles here. Not always, but sometimes it is possible.
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 16 December 2015 16: 01 New
            0
            The fact that you are a journalist I read, but it does not change anything. But I didn’t read your dissertation and I can’t judge it. In the 90s, there were so many RAEN dissertation scholars, even if you eat with a spoon.
            1. kalibr
              16 December 2015 18: 09 New
              +5
              Ai-ai-ai, how do you want to get away those who disagree with you. I have to say that I defended my work not in the 90s, but in the 1988 year at the Kuibyshev University on ... the history of the CPSU. And this time was in spite of all the difficulties, when when it was so easy to get a degree it was impossible, as well as to buy a post-graduate scholarship in 90 p. And to teach it was necessary to know all the 56 volumes of Lenin, read Marx, Engels and many others. Nobody thought that the 91 and Marxism-Leninism would be studied seriously and also seriously propagated. It was a good basic education, do not think!
    2. xorgi
      xorgi 16 December 2015 15: 02 New
      -2
      "Fascism, like nationalism, prioritized the state, its needs and interests" is not true, for them the main thing is the nation (race), not the state. It is not for nothing that it was during Hitler's time that they started talking about the United States of Europe, different states are united by a single ideology into a supranational structure.
      1. kalibr
        16 December 2015 15: 56 New
        +4
        Hilferding spoke about the slogan of the United States of Europe even before Hitler, and it was Lenin who, by the way, had an article written by him in 1915, which was called "On the slogan of the United States of Europe." Hitler was freezing in the trenches at this time! Don't confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs!
        1. xorgi
          xorgi 16 December 2015 17: 53 New
          -3
          And which of them embodied the idea into reality? Slavophile? Bolshevik? Or is it still a fascist? The former recognized the nation’s right to self-determination, but they also recognized the state, the latter were not yet defined at that time, and some believed that the state and nationality should not exist. But the Nazis put the nation and ideology, rather than the state, at the forefront, and so they succeeded.
          1. kalibr
            16 December 2015 18: 12 New
            +3
            That's it, the ball is over, if someone has something, then this is for a long time. Everyone who is here with respect to you already understood everything, so further on to me writing to you is the same as spitting against the wind. All the best in the fight against fascism! Do not forget to call the FSB!
            1. xorgi
              xorgi 16 December 2015 19: 15 New
              -4
              Well, good luck with your next grant for the collapse of Russia!
          2. Litsvin
            Litsvin 17 December 2015 00: 22 New
            +1
            You, dear, do not understand the "question" absolutely. Caliber writes to you, but you do not hear. Nazi and Bolshevik ideas are absolutely the same evil. This evil unites one common root - the "kagal" located in the United States, whose goal can be simply called the "world domination" of a handful of Jewish Masons. Both of these ideologies were invented for the same purpose - the destruction of Russia (and other countries for the campaign), the seizure of its resources, the transformation of the RUSSIAN PEOPLES into goyim, that is, slaves. The difference is only veiled - Hitler and Rosenberg set the selection criterion for belonging to the "German ethnos", while Blank and Trotsky set the selection criterion for belonging to the "class of proletarians" barefoot).
            The Bolsheviks in 1917 destroyed the people in Russia no less than they perished at the hands of the Nazis. And gold pulled out in the form of teeth by the Nazis, like gold pumped out of the RSFSR from 1917 to 1925 (93% of gold mining was in the hands of an American gang), must be sought across the ocean - in the USA. While in Europe the peoples were killing each other, they profited ...
            And further. Nazism is not the cultivation of an anti-human ideology as such (according to your statement), but just a means of BUILDING a PARASITIC ECONOMY within a specific territory. Those. the economic component is the main goal of the Nazi regime, not "the regime itself for the sake of the regime." Read at your leisure "material" about the role and goals of American corporations in the interwar period (from 1918 to 1939), how the economy of Germany was seized. In addition, one of the main goals of American corporations at that time was the destruction of the British and Japanese empires (they greatly interfered with the US global trade).
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 09 New
        0
        "Fascism, like nationalism, prioritized the state, its needs and interests" is not true, for them the main thing is the nation (race), not the state.


        Do not confuse the PURPOSE and MEANS.

        They started the whole bodygie stupidly for the sake of personal power. A fairy tale composed for cattle. Pondergali from various sources, purely theoretically, without any connection with practice.

        And the Fuhrer himself had Semitic blood, and tens of thousands of Jews fought valiantly in the Wehrmacht. And the expedition to Tibet tried to prove that the Tibetans are true Arnians ....
        Do not confuse the PURPOSE and MEANS.
  9. Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 16 December 2015 18: 57 New
    +3
    Where did you see from me or from the author of the article the statement that the haplrgroup R1a1 gives someone some advantage? The article describes only the chronology and migration of this haplogroup. By the way, for your information, among the Tatars and Mordovians, this is also the most common haplogroup. In addition, I myself, for example, do not know what haplogroup I personally have, therefore I have no personal preferences. You, before yelling "guard", should understand the essence of the issue.
  10. andrew42
    andrew42 16 December 2015 21: 24 New
    0
    You do not know that modern Russians have absorbed both Mordovian and "Tatar" (more precisely, Bulgar) components, and even a fair share of Türküts. And why, yes, because these ethnic groups are called KOM-PLE-MEN-TAR-NY. And in terms of culture, value system, both external and genetically as internal. Superethnos, have you heard such a term? Super - not because it is cooler than boiled eggs, but because it is multi-basic, the result of synthesis. There are also relict ethnic groups - those who nodded in their "vegetable garden". We can say that the voice of ancient blood pulls the divergent "languages" of Eurasia to come together. Too figuratively expressed, for that capaciously. There is, of course, the opposite tendency, but this is already a climatic factor (economic structure influenced by the landscape), and a social aspect (isolation of the elites). The freshest example of the latter - the isolation of the ruling elite of the descendants of the "ancient uk-r-s" - it will be necessary, they will start speaking Chinese, the main thing is not in Russian, and the genealogy will be taken out of Africa if they have a bummer with Atlantis.
  • Heimdall49
    Heimdall49 16 December 2015 10: 56 New
    +4
    How is haplogroup R1a1 better than the rest?

    If it relates to the Slavs, then why bother with the soul - naturally it is better wink
  • Maegrom
    Maegrom 16 December 2015 09: 30 New
    +3
    On Tuesdays, the radio says Moscow is broadcasting "Homeland of Elephants" by Mikhail Rodin, dedicated to the popularization of academic history. The topic of several issues has already been genetic history and its fundamental difference from the history of languages ​​and the history of material culture. The records of this transfer are in the transfer group in the contact.
  • Pavel Koltunov
    Pavel Koltunov 16 December 2015 11: 38 New
    +3
    Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, thanks for the information. Thinking brow to the benefit.
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 12: 04 New
      +2
      Please, I'm glad that it came in handy for a thinking person, but for a "non-thinking" ... at least the dew in the eyes of the night!
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 14 New
        +1
        kalibr RU Yesterday, 12:04 ↑
        Please, I'm glad that it came in handy for a thinking person, but for a "non-thinking" ... at least the dew in the eyes of the night!


        ABOUT! new version of the proverb! And my grandmother (gymnasium student) used to say: - Pisses in the eye - and he has God's dew! but the meaning is the same.
  • Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 16 December 2015 12: 28 New
    -2
    Here the author rested against R1a1 !!! And he continues to talk about the Slavic - Gypsy essence. It is fundamental among the Poles and Belarusians. For Russians, not counting the Krasnodar Territory, it only makes up 50% in the Kursk and Belgorod regions, and further north and east it is rapidly falling, replacing N1c1 to 3-5%. Roughly speaking, if Mom was a Slav, then our dad is Finno. So I don’t know about you, but I’m not a Slav, but a Russian. And I have nothing to do with any Balkan gypsy. I’ll go to the bathhouse with a wreath.
    1. Litsvin
      Litsvin 16 December 2015 23: 50 New
      +1
      You, apparently, "Gypsy is", not Russian (well, how to put it like that as a joke). "Russian" from the point of view of ethnogenesis is an ETHNOGENETIC descendant of the Slavs (NATURALLY, taking into account the correction for partial mixing of ethnic groups in some historical epochs), which at one time originated from the Proto-Slavs, and those, in turn, from one of the branches of the ancient Aryans, who began the settlement of Eurasia from the Balkans about 12 thousand years ago. And it is the Slavs, if we take the economic terminology, thanks to the "developed productive forces and production relations" became the STATE-FORMING ETHNOS, CEMENTING THE RUSSIAN NATION.
      And by the way, the gypsies are not Hindus, although they came from the interfluve of the Tsi and the Ganges. Some of the Hindus (approximately 54%) are also not Hindus, i.e. not Indo-Europeans, i.e. not genetic descendants of the ancient Aryans. But the descendants of the ancient Aryans "among the Hindus" constitute the overwhelming majority of the highest castes in modern India (according to research in the same DNA genealogy). And believe me, in India not "everything looks the same" - the Indians are very different even outwardly among themselves. I know personally, since we used to visit them "during the USSR" often on friendly visits to ports. Well, the bathhouse you are going to go to "is also not a" Finno-Ugric "invention. But, all the same, with a light steam! Yours faithfully, one of the descendants of the Aryans, living on the land of his ancestors!
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 27 New
        +1
        And by the way, the gypsies are not Hindus, although they came from the interfluve of the Tsi and the Ganges. Some of the Hindus (approximately 54%) are also not Hindus, i.e. not Indo-Europeans, i.e. not genetic descendants of the ancient Aryans. But the descendants of the ancient Aryans "among the Hindus"

        Hindus are Hindu believers. It does not apply to race and language. This is a religion.

        And the gypsies are definitely not Indians. Vishnu is not honored.
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 24 New
      +2
      And I have nothing to do with any Balkan gypsy.


      And what does the Balkans and Gypsies have to do with it? They left India in the early Middle Ages ... (by the way - Aryans in language).

      And what we call nationality is, first of all, CONSCIOUSNESS. Based on education. The most hackneyed example is Pushkin. He was proud of both his Russian roots and African. But he was Russian. And arguing with that is stupid.

      I met a guy: mom - Uzbek, dad - Estonian. Studied in Leningrad, distributed together to Georgia. They gave birth to a son. From childhood, he spoke good Russian and Georgian.
      We came to Russia after Gamsakhurdia. "We are Russians."
  • Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 16 December 2015 12: 29 New
    -1
    Look at the map! Russia north and east of the resettlement of your Slavs!
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 12: 43 New
      +2
      It is now to the north, and then it was south. And Kursk and Belgorod are very ancient cities. Mentioned in the annals.
  • Oprychnik
    Oprychnik 16 December 2015 13: 31 New
    +2
    I could not resist, Vyacheslav Olegovich, shmalnul at the end along the "sections".))) And now keep your answer in front of the Nanai boys-internationalists.))) If you slightly paraphrase Alexander Sergeevich:
    "And every tongue in her will call me,
    And the proud grandson of the Slavs, and the Finn, and now the wild
    Tungus, and a Kalmyk friend of the steppes. ")))
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 14: 12 New
      +3
      Well, after all, you can’t throw a scarf or a cassock on each mouth. So why be surprised. Can you just do what? Advise a person to buy Nefedov’s book and write an article on it about the Chukchi’s remarkably sharp weapons, how they stole black women in America (this is the magazine of the Mystery of the 20th Century), and what could the Russians not conquer! I think we all read it here with pleasure!
    2. kalibr
      16 December 2015 18: 14 New
      +2
      You also set a minus to you, as a sympathizer of fascist ideology - oooh ... they are enemies around !!!
      1. Oprychnik
        Oprychnik 16 December 2015 18: 48 New
        +1
        I do not know. I hinted to your opponents about the fight of the Nanai boys. I'll try to insert the clip, if possible.
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 32 New
          +1
          I'll try to insert the clip, if possible.

          plus.
          How concrete is absurdity!
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 30 New
        -1
        kalibr RU Yesterday, 18:14 ↑
        You also set a minus to you, as a sympathizer of fascist ideology - oooh ... they are enemies around !!!


        Well, so this is the Star Bear wipes! laughing

        (read profiles useful)
  • Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 16 December 2015 20: 06 New
    0
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, "... the queen is delighted ..."
    I did not expect even such material.
    Very interesting and intriguing. The cards are quite impressive.
    As I expected, the riddle nests in the Urals. Not in Arkaim, by any chance? And around him.
    ....
    But, "vague doubts" immediately began to torment me.
    God forbid that I make a mistake, but it seems to me that we will find this very R1a1, a clone of d3654, in large numbers in the vastness of Australia and Micronesia.
    No?
    So far did not look?
    And then ALREADY EYE, literally, forebodings.
    .
    Well, it is not for nothing that a certain comrade called you a sage. Sages are often not understood.
    Well, at least they stopped drinking water ... laughing
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 21: 50 New
      0
      Good night to you and an answer! From the end ... Socrates is one of my favorite characters in history. About your premonitions. I saw a map of the distribution of haplogroups around the globe on one English-language site, but did not pay attention to what was there with Australia. After all, this is also a new topic for me. It was necessary to read, understand, compare what our people write, what they write "there", pick up, compare, choose, compare all these cards. I don't like talking about Arkaim. In my opinion, this is an elephant from a fly. Well, I want to ... They have Stonehenge, we have Arkaim. But we already have a lot of everything. In Siberia, dishes of shahinshahs from Iran. Where from? Seimians and Turbines, who left burial grounds, but did not leave settlements, a cup from Trialeti, made on a lathe by pressure, and many other things. But I'll see what your "vague doubts" have. Suddenly something interesting will appear ...
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 00: 41 New
        0
        They have Stonehenge, we have Arkaim. But we have a lot without it.

        I applaud while standing!
        Still would be a lot of money, to dig out everything, to describe, to comprehend ...
    2. kalibr
      16 December 2015 23: 02 New
      0
      Here's to you: I found a site where genetics argue, with an American map. Https: //evolutionistx.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/world_map_of_y-dna_hapl
      ogroups.png There are a lot of interesting things on it!
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 49 New
        +1
        evolutionistx.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/world_map_of_y-dna_hapl
        ogroups.png

        404 - File not found. crying

        Sadness!

        And the map is interesting. Great Pasip!
    3. Aljavad
      Aljavad 17 December 2015 01: 35 New
      0
      God forbid that I make a mistake, but it seems to me that we will find this very R1a1, a clone of d3654, in large numbers in the vastness of Australia and Micronesia.


      Is this about the Denisovites?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Litsvin
    Litsvin 16 December 2015 23: 24 New
    +2
    I already wrote about that - we are the descendants of the GREAT ANCIENT ARIES, who founded the Great Civilization, first in the Balkans, and then settled throughout Eurasia.
    Various types of Solar Swastikas are our symbols, which are undeservedly slandered by Jewish Masons trying to parasitize all over the world. For parasitism, they use different methods, including a gross distortion of history, its presentation in the "channel" they need.
    Take the same 1/4 Jew Hitler-who brought him to power, the Germans ??? Yeah, right now - he was sponsored and brought to power by the American financial and political Jewish Masonic kagal. The goal of Hitler’s drive is the destruction of Russia, the seizure of its natural wealth, the transformation of our people into slaves (by the Talmud - goyim), i.e. they wanted to finish what Bronsten (Trotsky) could not do, which the Great Stalin kicked out of the USSR with a kick in the ass.
    The fact that the idiot Hitler used a symbol SIMILAR TO ONE OF THE TYPES of right-handed Kolovrat CANNOT WITNESS ANYTHING. There is a reliable historical version that this symbolism was borrowed from the USSR in 1923. By the way, the illiterate name "hoe cross" (this is how the black curved cross was called in the NSDAP) "swastika" also belongs to these distortions of history from the United States.
    Our scientists dealing with history, ethnology, genetics, ethnogeography already know a lot about Arkaim, other cities of our Great Ancestors. But this Jewish-Masonic lobby is constantly trying to put a spoke in the wheel, giving out the next delusional dirty screams. Vaughn, recently they were "offended" by the Zhamoits (in modern terms - Lithuanians) - you see, they tried to use one of the types of Solar Swastikas on the branded clothes of Lithuanian athletes - ancient symbols that have been used for millennia, including by the Balts - genetically and ethnically siblings of the Slavs , Germans, Celts and masses of other peoples of Eurasia. Zhamoits were forced to change their symbolism. And why, why should we "hide away" our symbols, the symbols of our great ancestors? And who is pointing this out to us - some Jews (maybe not Jews at all, but it is generally unknown who is by nationality), whose entire history as an ethnic group is no more than 2500 years old (they added "the rest of the years" for themselves - because their history completely invented from the very beginning, some of the "self-elected" even tried to write Adam as a Jew).
  • Litsvin
    Litsvin 16 December 2015 23: 25 New
    +2
    CONTINUED: Therefore, we, the descendants of the Great Aryans (incorrectly called at one time "Indo-Europeans" because of the impossibility at that time of the correct dating of historical artifacts - "the primary was turned over with the secondary") need to revive our real history, sometimes deliberately hidden "away from our eye". And it is the real history that needs to be taught, and not to brainwash our people with all kinds of nonsense "about monkeys" and "ancient Moses", whom, in fact, the Egyptians simply expelled from Egypt (approximately, as described in V. Vysotsky's song "Mishka Shifman" ).
    Such sciences as ethnography, ethnogeography, archeology, anthropology, genetics (which cannot be deceived at all) should shed light on real history. And we must study this correct story. And not the nonsense that, among other things, was written by "historians-ideologists" from the Central Committee of the CPSU or "half-educated half-witted antihumans" from the Rosenberg department, incited by the "chicken coop" Himmler and the schizophrenic Hitler. By the way, when Hitler was not yet "Hitler", but a miserable pussy from a nearby pub, a symbol of the future Nazi movement, he wanted to make a distorted Star of David, in which a segment of each of the 6 rays went upward (like a continuation of one side of the ray further from the top ) and these segments, in turn, other short segments departed at an acute angle towards the star itself. But then “theorists from the USA” “dissuaded” him from this symbol - it was very clear and many people would understand where the legs grow from. Therefore, the top of the future Nazis decided to use a symbol similar to one of the types of Swastikas for their black purposes. All the rest of the ideological nonsense, based on a distorted story “about the great Germans, supermen, subhumans, etc. crap "was also invented by" ideologists "from the United States.
    We Slavs, Balts, Germans, Celts, Britons, Iranians, part of the Indians and many other peoples of Eurasia are the descendants of the Great Aryans who founded Our civilization. Other peoples have their own ethnogenetic history, we have our own. And we have no right to hide it for the sake of other ethnic groups. All types of Solar Swastikas are our ancient symbols, used for thousands of years by our ancestors up to the 20th century. These “swastikas” in Sanskrit - the stars “fallen from heaven” - were used as amulets and were painted by our ancestors on dwellings, on clothes, on weapons, on dishes, they were used already in Christian time to decorate the clothes of priests and paint temples. THIS IS OURS!!! We do not need an alien, but we will not give up our own. The time will come and these symbols will return to the everyday life of our peoples and we will use them in the same way as the Indians use them, who, unlike us, have never forgotten their roots. Once upon a time, "under the USSR", one dock professor in history (in those days !!!) said one simple phrase (something like this, not verbatim, because it was a long time ago): "You cannot remove the Solar Swastika from the millennia-old culture of the peoples of Eurasia , just as it is impossible to remove the swastika form from space galaxies. "
  • Aljavad
    Aljavad 17 December 2015 00: 09 New
    0
    7500 thousand years ago, when there were neither Slavs, nor Germans, nor Celts.


    7500 thousand years ago, it is 7,5 million years ago. The trend however! The mistake is becoming popular. Carefully necessary!
  • Xent
    Xent 20 December 2015 10: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: xtur


    So - the Armenians are very different from the Turks and Azerbaijanis, and the Armenians do not have a single father, our people were formed as a result of mixing different nations about 5 years ago. But at the same time, the Armenian autochthons, for example, in Karabakh, about 000% of the population are descendants of the first immigrants from Africa, another 40% came at about the turn of 30 BC.



    I can’t understand in any way what this is about ... At one time I read a lot of different scientific works, and all great minds say that out of a mixture of several peoples a new people will not work, there will always be one to dominate. So all this cannot be a scientific approach. There is another version. Why Armenians have grains from almost all Indo-European peoples both in genetics and in language analysis.
    New Zealand linguists Russell Gray and Quentin Atkinson from the University of Auckland believe that the homeland of the Aryans is Transcaucasia and Asia Minor, and not Russia, as was considered by most scholars to this day. Scientists came to this conclusion after they applied a new statistical method to the analysis of the kinship of Indo-European languages. Scientists have shown that Indo-European languages ​​diverged quite early, between 10000 and 8000 years BC, and not in the sixth millennium BC, as most scholars believe. This indirectly confirms the so-called Anatolian theory (the idea of ​​the origin of the Aryans from Armenia). An article about this discovery was published in the prestigious scientific journal Nature.

    The Aryan, or Indo-European (formerly also called Indo-Germanic) language family is the largest in the world. It includes several language groups: Indian, or Indo-Aryan; Iranian Greek, Italian, which included the Latin language, whose descendants form a romance group; Celtic, Germanic; Baltic Slavic as well as isolated Indo-European languages ​​- Armenian and Albanian.

    All, I think, have heard about the ancient Aryan civilization in northern India and Iran in the 2nd millennium BC. The founders of comparative Indo-European studies have long literally considered Sanskrit (the "cultural" language of the ancient Aryans) to be the ancestor of all Indo-European languages.

    But where did the Aryans come from in India and Iran? There are two main concepts on this score. The classical “Kurgan Theory” believes that the ancestors of the Aryans were nomads of the Eurasian steppes and “rode” to India from southern Russia and Ukraine in about 6 millennium BC. At the same time, according to this theory, the divergence of Indo-European languages ​​began. Another theory - already mentioned Anatolian (put forward, by the way Vyach. Vs. Ivanov and T.V. Gamkrelidze) - declares that the ancestors of the Indo-Europeans were peaceful farmers, lived in the territory of modern Turkey and the Caucasus (in Armenia). The spread of this agricultural culture in Eurasia, according to the Anatolian Theory, began 9500-8000 years BC, that is, much earlier than the "Kurgan".

    In fact, the question for New Zealand scholars was how long the Indo-European languages ​​diverged. In linguistics, there are two large areas that study the relationship of languages ​​- comparative studies and glottochronology. Comparative studies (or comparative linguistics) compares vocabulary, grammar and pronunciation of languages. It allows you to assess the degree of their relationship, but operates with relative values. Roughly speaking, a comparative approach can answer the question of which of the two languages ​​is closer to the third (for example, Ukrainian is closer to Russian than German or Albanian), but does not say anything about the absolute time of their divergence.
  • Xent
    Xent 20 December 2015 10: 12 New
    0
    Glottochronology operates with absolute temporary values. Glottochronology (from the Greek glotta - language, chronos - time, logos - word, doctrine) - the field of comparative historical linguistics, which is involved in identifying the speed of language changes and determining on this basis the time of separation of related languages ​​and the degree of closeness between them. It determines the time of separation of related languages ​​based on the assumption of the same measurement speed of the main part of the dictionary. For analysis, 100-200 of the most preserved words (cognates) are taken (personal pronouns, some verbs of movement, elementary physiological feelings and sensations, designation of sizes, colors, some animals). For one millennium, at least 80% of such a list is preserved (81% for 200 words, 86% for 100 words). The smallest time for language separation is determined by the formula t = logC / 2log r, where C is the proportion of matching words in the main list, r is the coefficient of conservation of the list (respectively, 81 or 86%).

    Unfortunately, recently this approach has greatly compromised itself. When trying to go deep enough into the history of the origin of languages, certain problems arise. Firstly, it is not very clear which cognates and from which language to take as the main ones for building the tree of kinship. The choice is quite artificial, and the power of the approach drops. Secondly, the coefficient r may be slightly different for different language groups and at different times. Thirdly, the picture is distorted by the possible borrowing of words. In addition (fourthly), language development can be delayed for a short time, and this will greatly distort the analysis.

    To correct these possible distortions, New Zealand scientists have applied a number of new statistical techniques. First, they evaluated which tree of kinship is optimal (that is, which cognates are most natural to take for analysis). Then we analyzed the topology of the tree of kinship for whether the coefficient r noticeably changed during evolution. Scientists have applied the statistical method of Markov chains of Monte Carlo. Then, possible borrowed words were identified and removed from the database for analysis. Finally, scientists have applied a relationship smoothing algorithm that allows you to adjust changes in the speed of language evolution.

    New Zealand linguists have used the Daena Indo-European language database. They analyzed 2449 cognates from 87 Indo-European languages. The tree of kinship of languages ​​that they obtained agrees quite well with the “classical” one. There are some minor differences. For example, scientists put forward the idea of ​​the Romano-Germano-Kelsk supergroup. The Albanian language was considered independent (not included in any of the groups), no one could understand its origin, and Gray and Atkinson showed that it was related to Indo-Iranian.
    http://www.scientific.ru/journal/news/0404/arian1.jpg
    In general, the results obtained by linguists are in good agreement with the Anatolian Theory of Origin of the Indo-Europeans. The divergence of the Indo-European languages, according to their data, occurred between 10000 and 8700 BC.
  • Zveruga
    Zveruga 25 February 2016 15: 40 New
    0
    The author claims that the Kyrgyz people are 63% of the haplogroup R1a1. This scientific fact was incomprehensible to me for a long time, until I discovered the following fact.

    Genetic researchers love to study historical mummies and so-called indigenous (minor) peoples. For example, the Kirghiz, Afghans, Pakistanis (in short, the peoples of the northern Himalayas) have such small ethnic groups as Pashtuns, Ishkashimtsy and many others who look like Europeans. For example, Ishkashimites are very difficult to distinguish from Russians. They have light brown hair and European features. So the genetic research of the people is the study of 10 to 300 people, mainly representatives of those same indigenous peoples. Most of the modern Kirghiz are people from the lowlands (Pashtuns, Ishkashimtsy and others. These are people of the mountains), who were "omongoly" "oturacheni" (:)) later. For this they do not look like Europeans.

    Indian brahmanas also have brown hair and European features.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 15 October 2016 12: 16 New
    0
    I am constantly tormented by the same question. Why, with such obvious similar external signs, with similar stereotypes of behavior, with similar ideas about external forces and essentially identical archaic ideas about the structure of the universe, and often with similar value systems, do we have in Eurasia (in Europe! And in Asia!) such a "bunch" of significantly different root haplogroups such as R, N, I, and possibly something else. Where does this ancient "diversity" come from for peoples who, in fact, revolve for thousands of years around the same "circumpolar" area? They then from what common ancestor "divided" -? (and they were divided so that outwardly you can't really distinguish it). The Chinese, for example, have stood outside this "multitude" since time immemorial, and they are still standing. I mean not the mestizo population of that very northern "Peking" China, and precisely the Taoists, who are the essence of the Chinese, and who belong to the genetic core "South China - Thailand-Burma - Cambodia-Vietnam - Japan (excluding the Ainu substrate) ". Something is wrong in the apparent difference between these same haplogroups. And in this article, another "lumbago" is given as an example of the existence of the ruling elite of N-heirs among the Magyars. So far, there is no other explanation, except for the Vedic concept of the Union of 4 white clans (initially not having a single genetic root on this planet) - I see no other explanation. This is, of course, a weak "metaphysical" explanation. But, on the other hand, 4 different colors of the iris of the eyes, it is in the living TOTAL heirs of R1 / R2 / I / N-this fact for some reason is strenuously avoided to impose on the results of genetic research. Otherwise, there will be a need for an undesirable explanation of such a "4 by 4" correspondence. Just don't start here about the influence of the natural landscape. With constant historical races from north to south and from east to west, and vice versa, which happen once every 500-1000 years, the influence of climatic conditions is leveled.In short, you cannot drink eye color, at least for 5000 years, for sure. Dominant features? - Yes Yes. But the dominant in the absence of replenishment from the outside is unstable, and the "recessive" sign takes its back by historical standards very quickly.
  • fi1
    fi1 27 July 2017 10: 59 New
    0
    Slavs that could not mix with other races? that here they say that r1a is not Slavs. since it is among the afghans and kyrgyz people. Slavs lived in Asia in antiquity.
  • fi1
    fi1 27 July 2017 11: 11 New
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    By the way, for many years, Americans have been monitoring iQ research. And they found out - the lowest among African blacks! As all kinds of human rights defenders were indignant there, they started talking about fraud, that there are blacks generals, businessmen, the president ... But we are talking about AVERAGE indicators. And even checks by their human rights defenders could not refute this. On average, they were the lowest on the planet! And why so - understandably - the earliest people, the mind did not particularly develop.

    on the contrary, if the blacks are the oldest, then they should be more developed. because they live longer on the idea and mean more experience. and the center of civilization should be in Africa. and he was in Europe so evolution is nonsense.