Military Review

We are all from Adam and Eve, we are all from the same ship ... (part of 1)

100
For the sons of the Golden South (get up!),
For the price of past years!

If you take care of something, you will eat about
If you value something, you stand on it
Blow - to blow back!
("By birth" by Rudyard Joseph Kipling)


When we want to learn something, then ... it should be remembered that success in an integrated approach. Otherwise, we will be like blind people who have studied by touch an elephant. One took him by the leg and said that the elephant is very similar to a tree trunk, the other felt his stomach and said that it was a huge waterskin, the one who got the trunk, found that the elephant is a fat snake, and the one to whom the tail is thin. And they were all right in their own way! A historian may also fall into a similar error if he does not take into account the totality of scientific data. He should be critical of propaganda, and above all the fact that around his people are all enemies who only dream of harming him. For example, take it from him history. This is a typical paranoia that has nothing in common with reality and has no way to switch attention from internal to external problems: the way is as old as the world, but effective.
Jack London described it in his story “The Power of the Strong” - and this is a very instructive and wise story.

Politicians are trying to do this from time to time, relying on human ignorance. But professional historians value their reputation, so distort something to please politicians? Why do they need it? Reputation is more important than money! People who believe that this is not the case do not read the books of these historians, since they speak only Russian. Therefore, they are hostages of what they say the same politicians. However, there are a lot of vivid images on the Internet today especially for them and the like, where the whole story is shown in “color spots”. You just need to find, look and ... think! After all, today science has many methods of research of the past of mankind. Time machines have not yet been invented, but ... there is already some sort of similarity that allows you to go far into the past and see which people lived at that far time, while archaeologists show with their excavations what these people did there. So everyone who wants to grow old the history of his people, as well as add grandeur and civilization to him, should start with a comprehensive study of the problem, and not pull out from his “bouquet” individual flowers that he liked the most!


Megalithic culture of funnel-shaped cups, Germany.

First of all, we recall that even in 1928, the Soviet genetic scientist, academician Alexander Sergeevich Serebrovsky (1892 - 1948) introduced the concept of genogeography, and since that time it has been developing successfully, and its information baggage becomes weightier year by year. And it is based on the fact that nature itself is designed in such a way that all people have the same genetic code: 23 pairs of chromosomes, and in them all the hereditary information received by humans from both parents. Each chromosome takes about half of the maternal and half of the father. What genes will come from his mom, and what dad will give - His Majesty decides the case, which is why we all do not resemble each other and are distinguished by the shape of the nose, and the mind. But in this lottery only one male chromosome - Y does not participate, it is transmitted by nature from father to son without changes, like a baton. But women have no Y chromosome at all.

We are all from Adam and Eve, we are all from the same ship ... (part of 1)

Map of the early Neolithic cultures in Europe 7000 to 8000 years ago. Distribution by haplogroup. The English text has not been changed specifically so that everyone can make sure that “there” no one is engaged in falsifying history and does not in the least belittle the historical past of the Slavs, that is, that is! The names of the cultures are also given in English, but on the Internet each has a Russian-language text equivalent. Thus, it is easy to see what, who, where and when, as well as get information about haplogroups of a particular culture.


The average Neolithic in Europe according to archaeological excavations.

In the next generations, in some parts of the Y chromosome - loci, mutations occur, and they are transmitted to all subsequent generations through the male line. In loci, or so-called STR markers, there may be tandem repeats from 7 to 42, which gives a picture that is completely unique to each person. Due to mutations, the number of tandem repeats changes in one direction or another, so that the more mutations occur, the more ancient is the common ancestor for the so-called haplotype group.


Neolithic culture map from 5500 to 6000 years ago. The cultures typical of our country are clearly visible: Maikop, Yamna, and also Central European culture of linear ceramics.

The haplogroups themselves have no genetic information. But they are peculiar labels of long past eras, and allow us to look into the genetic past of any nation. Well, since we have been talking about Slavs here recently, let's look at the haplogroups belonging to them and their genesis. Special attention should be paid to the four most common among the representatives of the Russian people haplogroup, it is: R1a1 (47.0%), N1c1 (20.0%), I2 (10.6%), I1 (6.2%). To put it simply, the genetic composition of the straight male Y-chromosome lines in Russian people is as follows: Eastern Europeans - 47%; the Balts - 20%; and two more haplogroup Europeans of the Paleolithic era are Scandinavians - 6%; and Balkan - 11%.


Map of the cultures of the late Neolithic and early Bronze Age in Europe from 5000 to 4500 years ago.

That is, we note once again: haplogroups R1a, R1b, N1c, I1 and I2 are characteristic of Russians, Slavs, and Indo-Europeans.

And now let's rewind the chain of changes to the past and see what was there. And there it turns out that: about 8-9 thousands of years ago there was a linguistic group that laid the foundation for the Indo-European language family (at the very beginning it was most likely the haplogroup R1a and R1b). This family included such linguistic groups as Indo-Iranians from South Asia, Slavs and Balts from Eastern Europe, Celts of Western Europe, and Germans from Central and Northern Europe. Due to migrations, many representatives of these peoples dispersed across different regions of Eurasia. Someone went south and east (R1a-Z93), giving rise to Indo-Iranian peoples and languages ​​and also participating in the ethnogenesis of the Turkic peoples, while others continued to be in Europe (R1b-L51), for example, Slavs (R1a-ZXNX-L283), for example, Slavs (R1a-ZXNX , R51b-LXNUMX). But migration flows were strong, “people mixed up”, therefore, in all modern European ethnic groups there are a large number of different haplogroups.


Map of the early and middle Bronze Age cultures from 4500 to 4000 years ago. The areas of megalithic structures and the culture zone of bell-shaped cups are clearly visible. On the territory of Russia, the Srubna culture replaces the pit culture.


It is believed that the spread of the culture of bell-shaped cups could in turn be associated with the spread of the gene tolerant attitude to lactose, which increased the survival of its representatives.

Slavic languages ​​from the once unified group of Balto-Slavic languages ​​emerged, most likely, in the era of late lace ceramics about 3,3 thousands of years ago. The period from the V century BC. IV - V century AD it can already be quite conclusively considered as Proto-Slavic, since the Balts and the Slavs were already divided by this time. However, the Slavs themselves as such did not exist yet, but appeared later, in the IV - VI centuries. AD At the beginning of their formation among the Slavs, around 80% were the haplogroups R1a-Z280 and I2a-M423. 80% balts have N1c-L1025 and R1a-Z280 haplogroups. The connection between the Balts and the Slavs was noticeable from the very beginning, which is also confirmed by the data of archeology.

The Iranian languages, which are also Indo-European, are dated as follows: the most ancient epoch from the 2 of the millennium BC. according to the 4th century BC, the middle one - from the 4th century BC to the IX century AD, and the new - from the IX century AD. and to date. So Iranian languages ​​in antiquity appeared after the migration of a part of the tribes that spoke Indo-European languages, from Central Asia to India and Iran. Characteristic of them haplogroups, most likely, were R1a-Z93, J2a, G2a3.


Late Bronze Age map of 3200 cultures to 3000 years ago. Hallstatt culture spreads in the center of Europe. In Poland, it is Luzhitskaya, which is ingeniously named by one of the readers of the All-Russian Union of Organizations as “the culture of rhinitis” or “the culture of diarrhea. On the territory of the south of Russia dominates the Srubna culture.

Thus, the first conclusion can be made, namely, that Indo-Aryans - Celts, Germans and Slavs in academic science are called Indo-Europeans, and this term is most appropriate for such a vast and diverse linguistic group of various peoples. And this statement is quite correct and scientific. Do not scientifically isolate Indo-Aryans and Slavs from this group and assert that they are the most ancient people of Eurasia. Although yes, the heterogeneity of Indo-Europeans in the Y-haplogroups and the so-called autosomes is noticeable in the genetic aspect.


The area of ​​the Luzhitsky culture (highlighted in green) by archaeological finds.

Referring to the texts of the Indian Vedas, one can learn that the Indo-Aryans came to India from the north (from Central Asia), and that these are their hymns and traditions formed the basis of them. And if we talk about linguistics, then, again, the Russian language and, for example, Lithuanian, as a representative of the Baltic-Slavic ancient linguistic community, are relatively close to Sanskrit. But ... on a par with Celtic, Germanic and other languages ​​of the ancient Indo-European family! Common roots and similar words exist in all these languages! And in genetic terms, the Indo-Aryans, as they moved towards India, became more and more inhabitants of West Asia.

So, the haplogroup R1a in the DNA genealogy is a common haplogroup, both for part of the Slavs and part of the Turks. Part of the haplogroup R1a1 during the movements of the ancient peoples on the Russian Plain turned out to be part of Finno-Ugric peoples, for example, Mordovians (Erzya and Moksha). Some of the tribes (for the haplogroup R1a1, this will be a subclade Z93 (haplogroup — it is a macrogaplogroup, like R1a, and a microgaplogroup, like R1a1ag, which we can call a subclade) brought our Indo-European language, as a subgroup, like R3500aXNUMXag, which we can call a sub-clause) brought their Indo-European language, a subgroup, like RXNUMXaXNUMXag, which we can call a sub-clause) brought their Indo-European language, a subgroup, like RXNUMXaXNUMXag, which we can call a sub-clause) brought their Indo-European language, a subgroup, like RXNUMXaXNUMXag; , that is, in the middle of the second millennium BC, all this is confirmed by data not only of DNA genealogy, but also of linguistics, which in this case are well correlated with each other.

Even in ancient times, a significant amount of the haplogroup R1a1-Z93 joined the Turkic ethnos, which, in view of the great antiquity of the haplogroup R1a1, is not at all surprising. Well, the carriers of the haplogroup R1a1-Z280 fell into the Finno-Ugric tribes, and today, for example, in the Mordovian-Erzya, the dominant haplogroup is still R1a1-Z280.

DNA genealogy even shows approximate dates of migration of holders of one or another haplogroup in areas of the modern Russian Plain and Central Asia in prehistoric times. That is, when even before the advent of genetics, and without even knowing that it would appear, European scientists, including German, gave the Slavs, the Celts, the Germans, etc. the name of the Indo-Europeans, they were right. And the “Aryans” are the very tribes and peoples that spoke, and they speak Indo-Iranian languages ​​today. And all, however. No more and no less!


Map of the haplogroup R1a migration.

But in what direction did the Indo-European migration flow - to the west, to Europe from Asia, or, on the contrary - from Europe to the east, to Asia? Yes, the ancient homeland of Indo-Europeans has not yet been determined, but ... you cannot walk so far on foot. This means that we must look for the area where the horse was domesticated. By some estimates, the age of the Indo-European language family is about 8500 years. And the horse was about the same for a long time home. And according to one of the existing versions, this could be the Black Sea region - northern or southern. Well, Indo-Aryan was introduced to India about 3500 years ago, most likely from the region of Central Asia, by speakers of the genetic Y-lines R1a1-L657, G2a, J2a, J2b.

To be continued ...
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  1. shurup
    shurup 15 December 2015 07: 26
    +5
    River and sea vessels have a more convenient means of settling gallogroups than a horse.
    It is a pity that they are not as durable as ceramics.
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 07: 58
      +2
      Submarine in the sands of Kara Kumov?
      1. Spnsr
        Spnsr 15 December 2015 12: 06
        +3
        the point is that not a single nation went anywhere, it means that the Scythians lived, then the Khazars, and then the Slavs, now Russians, maybe they still lived like that on their territories !?
        and by the way about Fomenko-Nosovsky, by the way, if you look a little into their work, then the settlement was the same, only the period of this event was brought closer to our era, more precisely in the Middle Ages, connecting this movement with the conquest of the promised land, with Tamerlan and the conquest of Constantinople in the 15th century
        1. but still
          but still 15 December 2015 14: 39
          +4
          that the Scythians lived, then the Khazars, and then the Slavs


          Did the Bulgarians forget something again? Ancient Great Bulgaria Kubrat even before the Khazars? laughing

          Do you know what ethnic composition lived in Khazaria? And that the Jews there were only the ruling elite? Do you know that the Bulgarians with the eldest son of Kubrat, Boyan, who make up 60% of the Khazar Kaganate, remained to live in the Khazar Kaganate?
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr 15 December 2015 16: 01
            +3
            Quote: but still
            Do you know what ethnic composition lived in Khazaria? And that the Jews there were only the ruling elite? Do you know that the Bulgarians with the eldest son of Kubrat, Boyan, who make up 60% of the Khazar Kaganate, remained to live in the Khazar Kaganate?

            so there’s a slight accent, so to list, I’m afraid “War and Peace” will appear as a brochure laughing
            but about nationality! I doubt if the bulk of the nationalization of the population took place in the late 18th and early 19th centuries!
            but the course of beliefs is quite possible! those. the beliefs of the rulers were different from the beliefs of the bulk of the population — I agree with that.
            and, if we take into account that all the population of the territory of the Russian Federation was faithful to faith in their ancestors, where God is the Father, and if we take as a basis the statement that at that time, there was no legislation, as we present it, but there was religion - the law , then, as a result, another religion is an attempt to tear the population from a single legislation, and Svyatoslav’s campaign, in view of the fact that there was one faith, and this is faith in ancestors! against the so-called the tops of the Khazars, now it would be possible to call it, the restoration of constitutional order ...
            1. but still
              but still 15 December 2015 17: 20
              +2
              if the bulk of the nationalization of the population took place in the late 18th and early 19th centuries!


              The fact of the matter is that some nationalities were already formed, but at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century, it was they who "attached" - formatted new nationalities from the old existing ones, for ideological and political reasons.
              And Svyatoslav, brought up by his mother, the Danube Bulgarian, Olga, went to the Khazars and his kindred Bulgarians Boyan (because of which Olga's ancestors, the Asparuh Bulgarians, left the northern Black Sea for the Danube), and to the Volga Bulgaria (who went to the Volga along the same reasons), and later, bribed by Byzantium, and to the Danube Bulgaria. Svyatoslav apparently believed that he had the right to rule there, because it was his relatives. And in written sources it is indicated that Svyatoslav did not want to live in Kiev, but in Pereyaslavts on the Danube - he liked it there more. Before her death, Olga reproached her son for going to the Bulgarians, but the son did not obey his mother and made another campaign, after which the Byzantines managed to subdue the Danube Bulgaria weakened by Svyatoslav and defeat Svyatoslav's army. And Svyatoslav himself was soon killed by the Pechenegs, and a cup was made from his skull. Usual fratricidal feuds. Svyatoslav became an instrument and subsequently a victim of Byzantine politics - to eliminate other enemies with the hands of enemies.
              1. Spnsr
                Spnsr 15 December 2015 17: 49
                +2
                Quote: but still

                The fact of the matter is that some nationalities were already formed, but at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century, it was they who "attached" - formatted new nationalities from the old existing ones, for ideological and political reasons.

                I completely agree, as it were, “divide and rule”. but again, if it was, then there were not so many of them, as the population itself, and the so-called "Nationalities", and later their memory was erased, otherwise it would be like with the Jews, and from here, the Jews, as a nation, are not much older than any other nationality !!! although sweat by their antiquity, perhaps they mean some kind of memory.
                but no more than that implied in legends and myths by all other peoples on the planet ...
                even though they say about the Scythians as a legend, but I still suspect that it also contains an element of the past, and, accordingly, such as the legend of the three nations that emerged from one, each of which was occupied with its own business, agriculture, and cattle breeding and martial art, you know the division of labor. if you look closely, this can be seen in other legends of the peoples inhabiting the planet ...
        2. but still
          but still 15 December 2015 15: 15
          +1


          That's where the resettlement of civilized peoples
          1. but still
            but still 15 December 2015 15: 37
            +2
            But did you know that the Thracians are subsequently the Bulgarians, whom everyone has been silent about for centuries? An inconvenient story, of course.
            1. Skifotavr
              Skifotavr 21 December 2015 08: 01
              0
              Quote: but still
              But did you know that the Thracians are subsequently the Bulgarians, whom everyone has been silent about for centuries? An inconvenient story, of course.

              Not really. The Thracians are the ancient Slavs (or rather, part of them) during their heyday. And the Bulgarians, as I already wrote, came from the mixing of the Thracian Slavs with the newcomer Türkic-speaking Volga Bulgars. Later, the Turks were added to them. Although they still have more Slavic. But according to the Bulgarian version, it turns out that the dog grows from the tail: they claim that the Slavs, Huns, Tatars, and now also the ancient civilizations of Iran originated from the Bulgarians (how can you not recall the baidu about the Iranian origin of the blond or red and blue-eyed Scythians). With their "works" the Bulgarian nationalist-historians, without realizing it themselves, serve those who for many centuries have erased the ancient Slavic history and culture.
          2. Spnsr
            Spnsr 15 December 2015 22: 43
            +2
            for the general!
            1. Spnsr
              Spnsr 16 December 2015 20: 32
              -1
              and a few more removed, but in the subject of religion! although honestly, I’m not an ostrologist and I can’t say what they’re talking about, but the main points!
        3. but still
          but still 15 December 2015 15: 19
          0


          This is where the ancient civilizations came from and where the Indo-European languages ​​came from
        4. gla172
          gla172 15 December 2015 20: 55
          +1
          All this was a long time ago .... a very long time ago ....
    2. Severomor
      Severomor 15 December 2015 10: 15
      0
      Until the 18-19th centuries - without water and "not there and not syudy"
      The three greatest civilizations of antiquity are located in deltas and in similar interfluves - in the Nile Delta - Ancient Egypt, in the interfluve of the Tigris and Euphrates - Ancient Babylon, in the interfluve of the Indus and Harappa - Indo-Harappan civilization. Greeks are killing, the Romans are there

      By the way, when did the horse appear?
      On a horse you can still without roads, in the saddle, but with a cart (s) and luggage it’s hard
      1. kalibr
        15 December 2015 12: 21
        +2
        But just on the territory of Russia, in particular, in the Minusinsk depression, the oldest types of carts were found, and there are a lot of petroglyphs with chariots.
        1. Riv
          Riv 15 December 2015 13: 22
          +4
          There is one caveat. Any type of carriage is good if there is a road. The variant on huge wheels is extreme. They had to harness more horses than the same horses could carry in packs. A large wheel has a large and mass, as a result, a low efficiency of the carriage. That is, "all-terrain vehicles" could come in handy for global crossings, when it is necessary to quickly build a Wagenburg in case of danger.

          Transport with normal wheels and an acceptable number of horses in a harness requires roads. And then what roads could be? Only frozen rivers, but sleighs seem to be easier ...

          And by the way, yes: a boat is a much more convenient way to relocate if the rivers are full, as in Europe. More technically difficult to manufacture, but in operation much easier than carts.
          1. Severomor
            Severomor 15 December 2015 13: 57
            +4
            Transport with normal wheels and an acceptable number of horses in a harness requires roads. And then what roads could be? Only frozen rivers, but sleighs seem to be easier ..

            In Russia, even when there were carriages, the tsar, his family and noble nobles went for a long sleigh ride even in the summer. Riding in a sleigh was considered more honorable than riding on wheels. In shape, the sled looked like a boat with curved edges in front and behind and did not at all look like a modern sled.
            In the XV century. Russian princes rode in "sleigh huts." The chronicle calls them "captives with shafts."

            But they bring one gun, in a train. ONE !!!!!
            1. Riv
              Riv 15 December 2015 14: 36
              +2
              Well, about the cannon - this is certainly a modern drawing. The artist sees it that way. :) But in fact, a weapon like the Tsar Cannon on the "default" wheels on the primer is far from being dragged away. The wheels are small and will sink into the ground. Google a picture of any field gun and estimate the size of the wheels. But it is many times lighter, four horses pulls.

              There is one more reason why it will "fail": wheel bearings. In an ordinary cart, the bearings are quite large and the cart itself was carrying half a ton at most. The wheels had to be changed very often. And in the pictured gun, the mass is much greater and the force in the bearings will disable them very quickly.
              1. Severomor
                Severomor 15 December 2015 16: 07
                +2
                Yes, it's just a drawing for thought. It’s enough to see the military chronicles filmed during the debauchery, the caterpillars get stuck on the road-directions)))))

                In an ordinary cart, the bearings are quite large

                The "oak hub" will probably be more correct. The wheel was put on a greased axle. I don’t know for sure.
                1. Riv
                  Riv 15 December 2015 16: 46
                  +2
                  Well, yes, it did. Remember one ancient Greek made a wax check? So it was possible to flood, only if the wheel rotated freely on the axis. But a tree - it is a tree. Strength is not that. Now a steel sleeve is inserted into the hub, and another is put on the axle. But 4000 years ago, turning business was hardly developed, and it was hard with steel.
        2. Severomor
          Severomor 15 December 2015 13: 39
          +2
          the oldest types of carts found

          The question is the distances that these carts covered, as well as the volume of cargo carried. If there are wagons, then there were roads. To move on them only in the summer and in dry weather (will you argue?).
          Winter essno on a sleigh. But in order for the sled to pass, the path must be cleared.

          On the rice the cart (carriage) is about 2500 BC (officially, that I really do not know). How to ride on such wheels? Have you seen peasant carts with wooden wheels, upholstered in an iron strip? This is one of the easiest vehicles. Payload approx. 200 kg, horse must be protected.

          Even under Tsar Mikhail Romanov, the wheels of carriages were carried on their hands when turning. It was terribly inconvenient to ride in unsprung, not equipped with forward turning gears on unpaved and unlit streets. Devices for turning - "swan neck" and turntable - began to be made in Russia in the second half of the 17th century. (and this is only about "comfortable" transport)
          1. Riv
            Riv 15 December 2015 14: 46
            +2
            But are we, after all, talking about a time when ironing wheels was a little expensive?

            And with a European cart everything is not so simple. If simply: she will not go far, if she is done according to ancient technologies. The wheels will have to be changed. The force in the bearing on the axle is large enough and the greater it is, the smaller the diameter of the wheel. And if you only have wood from the materials, then the axis or the wheel itself will have to be changed quite often. It is unlikely that more than a hundred kilometers will be their resource. As a result: the same two hundred kilos can be hung in packs on four horses and move several times faster, and the presence of roads is no longer critical.
            1. kalibr
              15 December 2015 16: 17
              +2
              And why then in every city there was a chariot, a saddler, a blacksmith ... It's like repair, camber, refueling like today! And the same thing happened in the villages, especially on the roads.
              1. Riv
                Riv 15 December 2015 16: 35
                +1
                Well, yes ... Four thousand years ago, at every step of the city, there was a service station in every step. And insurance agents at every turn. :)
      2. kalibr
        15 December 2015 12: 35
        0
        Yes, it’s all true, there were only a few more civilizations - even the Yantsi-Yellow River, the Aztecs-Maya - Lake Mexico-Usumanitsita River, and the Incas / Japanese - stream mountain irrigation. But since the same Usumansita Pereshyhara (it all depended on the rainy season), then the people there got their own religion.
      3. a housewife
        a housewife 15 December 2015 16: 10
        +2
        How did the poor people settle in America ?! Without a horse? And without a wheel, however? And settled, of course, from the Black Sea, approximately. South. There is such a big mountain. Ararat. And, by the way, a couple of years ago a stone structure was discovered on the slope, much more ancient than Stonehenge, but several thousand years older than the pyramids of Egypt!
        1. venaya
          venaya 15 December 2015 17: 00
          +1
          Quote: housewife
          How did the poor people settle in America ?!

          Try to correlate a little your words with the 1963 find on the territory of present-day Mexico of human footprints with an estimated age of 130 million years, and these footprints are associated with a modern type of person, that is, "homo sapiens".
          1. kalibr
            15 December 2015 18: 08
            +1
            And he was found there, is that for sure? You know, I do not believe these "facts-exceptions". There are 1000 finds confirming the point of view of X. One finds one that contradicts it - U. But you are dearer than U, not X. I personally do not care about U, it can be anything. 1 and 1000, but really 1, 10000 against one. And what is more important ?!
            1. venaya
              venaya 15 December 2015 19: 22
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              And he was found there, that's for sure? You know I do not believe these "facts-exceptions".

              "Trust but check"- so President Regan used to say I remember. The question of faith is completely different, it is religious. So with African origin - there is more dependence on the origin of" Abrahamic "religions. If the Torah was written by African sorcerers, then their homeland and the origin of man will naturally be Africa There is no getting away from this - tendentiousness! Another thing is the numerous scientific researches of specialists in various, unrelated scientific fields. Personally, for me, real scientific research means much more than the myths of individual African tribes, especially those with low cultural development.
              1. kalibr
                15 December 2015 20: 19
                0
                And is Louis Leakey also an African sorcerer of a low level of development?
    3. but still
      but still 15 December 2015 15: 06
      0
      River and sea vessels have a more convenient means of settling gallogroups than a horse.


      Thracians Pelasgians settled from the Balkans in different directions precisely on sea vessels
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. Free wind
    Free wind 15 December 2015 08: 19
    +1
    I'm sorry, what about the American continent? He was settled by immigrants from Asia, through the Berengov Isthmus, or whatever it is called, and on foot they all went through it, there were no horses.
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 08: 37
      0
      Yes, we walked all over. And that is precisely why they lagged behind in development in Europe!
      1. Riv
        Riv 15 December 2015 13: 24
        +1
        Who said there were no horses? There were. They were called "deer". :)))
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 15 December 2015 20: 31
          +1
          Riv
          You are wrong, deer this in WOT. Everyone knows about it.
          1. Riv
            Riv 16 December 2015 07: 35
            0
            So WoT played already then.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 15 December 2015 10: 05
      +3
      We walked and it took a lot more time. After all, during the resettlement there was no task of intercontinental march-throw, like travelers or trade caravans. The tribe moved a little to suitable territory and settled. Then it either resettled due to some changes in its composition (pestilence, crowding out by another tribe, environmental change), or multiplied excessively and began to expand with surplus population. And so, until the whole continent passes. And this is a very long process.
  3. V.ic
    V.ic 15 December 2015 08: 24
    +1
    Informative, very ... It will be interesting to get acquainted with serious comments on this article.
    1. Petrol
      Petrol 15 December 2015 09: 16
      +1
      in Sichuan province there is a section of the Chinese wall with the inscription "move rati yara"!
      along the way gentlemen are not a wall at all, but a mountain military road
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 15 December 2015 10: 06
        +2
        Photo to the studio. And the results of the examination, that it was written during the construction of the wall, and not by a modern Fomenkoid.
        1. kalibr
          15 December 2015 12: 25
          +2
          Yeah ... We got these games with words. They take Russian words, project (distort) them into the language of Greeks, Latins, etc., and pass them off as "lexical changes." So the Greeks become feverish, the Irish - Russians - "ai rish" - "I am Rus", and so on, I already do not have enough memory for this nonsense. This is all Zadornov taught such "games". And haplogroups show something different!
          1. venaya
            venaya 15 December 2015 17: 25
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            ... I already do not have enough memory for this nonsense. That's all Zadornov taught ...

            Zadornov sometimes produces very interesting facts that completely coincide with the scientific research of other authors. For example, Zadornov stands at a bus stop in the northern part of modern Germany and examines the name of the bus stops (the names of villages), so out of 20 names, all have absolutely clear identification of Russian origin, which completely coincides with the studies of other authors. So, although the percentage of errors in Zadornov is present, they are more likely to lie than other authors with huge scientific regalia. No one is safe from mistakes, especially if you try to conduct independent research, instead of basically useless copying other people's stupidities.
            1. kalibr
              15 December 2015 18: 14
              0
              In your message, the main word is sometimes. Sometimes a monkey can print a couple of connected words. Moreover, no one says that he is a stupid and ignorant person. But science is still somewhat different than what he does.
              1. venaya
                venaya 15 December 2015 18: 19
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                ... science is still somewhat different than what he does.

                What do you mean by what is called "science"maybe an immortal Leninist:" ... A venal whore of monopoly, that is, imperialist capitalism "???
                1. kalibr
                  15 December 2015 20: 21
                  0
                  Do you know another system that really proved its viability?
                2. gladcu2
                  gladcu2 15 December 2015 20: 38
                  +1
                  venaya

                  Science, this is officially accepted by the majority. Pseudoscience, these are official interpretations, attempts at revision.

                  Pseudoscience is denied because of the withdrawal of human development along the wrong path.
                  1. kalibr
                    15 December 2015 20: 51
                    0
                    It couldn't be better. I can only add: in difficult years, in difficult historical periods, the number of "revisions" increased significantly. This was the case at the beginning of the 20th century, this is repeated at the beginning of the 21st ...
                    1. Petrol
                      Petrol 18 December 2015 09: 47
                      -1
                      CALIBER
                      when (personally YOU) you don’t know who your great_D_d is that great_Babka,
                      then your personal maidan will appear in your house!

                      then a foreign rabble will twist the tongue (where 4000 Turkic words) and the textbook will be blind.
                      Then you’ll be called a pole and a stick (cue) by the prince, and Lybedya, the supreme governor, who went to Constantinople on a campaign in 457, gave the Greeks a pi-dule and opened a passage without tribute for trading people to the Mediterranean Sea, they’ll even call a woman who sits on a mountain in Kiev ass on the shop cards!
                      1. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 22 December 2015 12: 13
                        0
                        It seems that the random letter generator sometimes produces almost coherent text.
                        smile
                        Did you understand what you wanted to say?
      2. Riv
        Riv 15 December 2015 13: 26
        +4
        Our penetration of the planet
        Particularly noticeable in the distance.
        In a public Paris toilet
        There are inscriptions in Russian ...
      3. Svist
        Svist 16 December 2015 04: 47
        0
        Quote: Benzin
        in Sichuan province there is a section of the Chinese wall with the inscription "move rati yara"!

        Our penetration of the planet
        Particularly noticeable in the distance:
        In a public Paris toilet
        There are inscriptions in Russian! (WITH)
        lol
        1. Petrol
          Petrol 18 December 2015 10: 18
          -1
          WHISTLING
          well yes )))
          and on the paw of the sphinx there was once the inscription ROD, and the zoomorphic face of the god Rhod was a lion)))).
          and the warriors and priests of the Temple of Roda were infantrymen, and the mummy of Pharaoh "Tutankhamun" was found in the tomb of an ordinary Etruscan average infantryman lol
  4. IS-80
    IS-80 15 December 2015 10: 14
    +1
    And the "Aryans" are the very tribes and peoples that spoke, and even today speak the Indo-Iranian languages. And that’s all, however. No more and no less!

    Why would the bath rumble? Initially arias of R1a. Something we and the Indians can write in the aria.
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 12: 28
      0
      I have no data on the Indians. I did not do it.
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 15 December 2015 14: 14
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        I have no data on the Indians. I did not do it.

        Well, they now speak English, Spanish and Portuguese. In fact, those same Indo-European languages. So much for the arias in the prairies, the Andes and the wilds of the Amazon.
        1. kalibr
          15 December 2015 16: 05
          +1
          Logically, but about genes, probably in a different way!
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 15 December 2015 16: 56
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            Logically, but about genes, probably in a different way!

            Vyacheslav Olegovich, but you yourself were not interested in your ancestors? Well, in the sense they didn’t find out what your haplogroup is? I just want to find out everything, but I'm sorry for something. It’s very interesting where I came from and my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather came here. smile
            1. kalibr
              15 December 2015 18: 17
              +1
              No, I was not interested. Although I know a lot about my ancestors. The fact is that this, in general, is not my topic. It was VO who pushed me into her. So I’m doing something completely different. But I will think about your proposal.
    2. Petrol
      Petrol 18 December 2015 10: 32
      0
      hehe
      in North America, a stone mortar and pestle were found in it, the inscription Rod on the pestle, and Mara on the mortar lol
  5. Igor39
    Igor39 15 December 2015 10: 59
    0
    I don’t remember where I read, but one authoritative scientist put forward the version that a man existed on a single right continent, and then when the continents formed in their present form, this one tribe was divided and developed as subspecies, Australopithecus, Neanderthals, Sinanthropus and Cro-Magnon, due to the fact that For a long time, each of the subspecies developed separately, and then, as the habitat expanded and expanded, they began to mix, but each subspecies retained its ancient archetype, the Chinese are the Sinanthropus type, the Australian Aborigines are the Australopithecus type, the Europeans the Neanderthal type is the inhabitants of Russia, the Cro-Magnon type.
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 12: 30
      +1
      Why take the great continent when all the finds of ancient people are localized in Southeast Africa, and the first find was made by Luis Liki in the Oldovay gorge there. We do not need Mu, Atlantis and other utopias. Everything is there, nothing needs to be invented!
  6. -Traveller-
    -Traveller- 15 December 2015 11: 09
    +4
    I would be careful not to bind haplogroups to language groups.
    as history shows, switching to another language is not a rare situation.
    in order to speak more or less reliably of language affiliation, written sources are needed.
    1. Spnsr
      Spnsr 15 December 2015 12: 18
      0
      Quote: -Traveller-
      I would be careful not to bind haplogroups to language groups.
      as history shows, switching to another language is not a rare situation.
      in order to speak more or less reliably of language affiliation, written sources are needed.

      here we can add that the language most likely has one basis under it, and what is now called borrowing, just says that it was just the basis ... (except for the period associated with the development of technology of the previous century and the corresponding words )
  7. Beard31
    Beard31 15 December 2015 12: 54
    0
    I didn’t understand who was going where and why, and who has which gene and what it all means. The author caught me from the boredom of this abra cadabra. And about one ship and a common root for all peoples, I also did not understand what this indicates?
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 16: 07
      0
      Higher mathematics also makes me bored, and someone "drags on" formulas and equations.
  8. IS-80
    IS-80 15 December 2015 14: 31
    0
    Yes, the ancient homeland of the Indo-Europeans has not yet been determined, but ... you won’t go so far on foot.

    And on what did Neanderthals jump, swim, fly? If on foot you will not go far? On mammoths, lodges or vimanas?
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 18: 19
      +1
      Neanderthals walked for a long time! A very long time! Indo-Europeans are much faster. That is the difference. I can’t paint everything. IN burst! Tens of thousands of years and thousands - the difference!
      1. Sadam79
        Sadam79 20 January 2018 01: 16
        0
        better late ...)
        Neanderthals just did not go, it was Cro-Magnons who came to them
  9. IS-80
    IS-80 15 December 2015 14: 38
    0
    Reputation is more important than money!

    It’s good to say that when you don’t have money and they don’t offer it to you. But in general, man is man and greed is still inherent in him, even if he is a historian, even a mathematician, even a locksmith, even a musician. smile
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 16: 11
      -1
      Yes, of course, one is honest up to 100 rubles, another up to 1000, the third will break for 100000. But you must admit, it is difficult to bribe a professor at the University of Nottingham, who earns so much that he maintains a house of 150 sq. m. in the Tudor style, the son is studying at Oxford, and the daughter in Cambridge, and he pays for it all and does not live in poverty. And now he will "lie" - after all, they will immediately check - and I know how they check. So what? Where should he go? The university will immediately terminate the contract with him!
      1. Glot
        Glot 15 December 2015 16: 47
        +1
        But you must admit, it is difficult to bribe a professor at the University of Nottingham, who earns so much that he maintains a house of 150 square meters. m. in the Tudor style, the son is studying at Oxford, and his daughter is at Cambridge, and he pays for it all and does not live in poverty.


        Hmm ... Their professors live well. I have a friend, not a professor, really, candidate history. sciences, a specialist in medieval Russia, sits on a salary of 40 rubles + quarter. It happens that I have shots on the road, then for lunch. This is the "house of 000 squares".
        But the man is honest, absolutely.
        Although I will not hide, there are different ones. Either haggling with things from the excavations, or doing left-handed examinations ... Everyone is hunting for bread and butter.
        But the truth is that nobody globally falsifies anyone. laughing
        1. kalibr
          15 December 2015 18: 21
          -1
          I can envy your friend. Everything is the same with me: Ph.D. Assoc. But ... further it is clear, yes? The difference in salaries I get pseudoscientific journalism.
        2. gladcu2
          gladcu2 15 December 2015 20: 46
          0
          Glot

          There are always problems with professionals. They have a fairly high threshold of honesty. And it does not depend on the standard of living. So mother arranged nature. She does not give a lot of chances to lie
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. IS-80
        IS-80 15 December 2015 16: 49
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Yes, of course, one is honest up to 100 rubles, another up to 1000, the third will break for 100000. But you must admit, it is difficult to bribe a professor at the University of Nottingham, who earns so much that he maintains a house of 150 sq. m. in the Tudor style, the son is studying at Oxford, and the daughter in Cambridge, and he pays for it all and does not live in poverty. And now he will "lie" - after all, they will immediately check - and I know how they check. So what? Where should he go? The university will immediately terminate the contract with him!

        This is all wrong. You can cheat in different ways and the reasons may also be different; they do not always lie in the plane of money. That’s what I believe in ironly, in hard pragmatism and in the ability to justify that black is white if it is beneficial.
        1. Spnsr
          Spnsr 15 December 2015 17: 17
          0
          Quote: IS-80
          This is all wrong. You can cheat in different ways and the reasons may also be different; they do not always lie in the plane of money. That’s what I believe in ironly, in hard pragmatism and in the ability to justify that black is white if it is beneficial.

          well, then it’s about that, in order to be branded as “professional” in history by the same “professionals” of historians, it is necessary to “professionally” substantiate history, and then in order not to lose your “professionalism”, you need to continue to “professionally” substantiate other subsequently discovered facts !
          it’s like one comrade Yevgeny Yanovich Satanovsky, we say, excavated in the northern Black Sea region, at the mouth of the Don, found a lot of things from the Vikings, even more than in Scandinavia, this type confirms the Norman theory !!!
          strange person huh
          why is it not so that what the Vikings are - Don Cossacks? and there are more of them because their birthplace is here! and there they are ... see the picture in the article, and abstract yourself a bit from the dates! ...
          1. kalibr
            15 December 2015 18: 34
            0
            One root, not one people, that’s why!
            1. Spnsr
              Spnsr 15 December 2015 19: 18
              -1
              Quote: kalibr
              One root, not one people, that’s why!

              I don’t argue, at least everyone has long diverged from where they were from the same root and there was one people, one can only guess about the reasons (maybe the brothers quarreled and separated, maybe the traveler’s mania got around, and maybe for profit! (by Norman version) although the last vryatli)
              but with zeal to prove
              excavations in the northern Black Sea region, at the mouth of the Don, have found a lot that from the Vikings, even more than in Scandinavia, this type confirms the Norman theory !!!
              it’s not just blasphemy, but sabotage!
              we have not been one nation for a long time, now they are tearing Ukraine away, and very little time will pass, it will make Poland or Bulgaria the same, and if they succeed, it will be not only not one nation, but also not one root! ...
        2. kalibr
          15 December 2015 18: 23
          +2
          Yes, there was a case when a famous British archaeologist passed off his wife to Queen Shubad. It was not in the plane of money. But it was revealed!
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 15 December 2015 19: 58
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            But it was revealed!

            But it was! smile
            1. kalibr
              15 December 2015 20: 23
              0
              It happens that a girl dies with a girl, but lives with a widow!
  10. bravo-fab
    bravo-fab 15 December 2015 14: 39
    0
    Excellent article!
    PS: where did the Finogor languages ​​come from? Where did their family go? After all, the Finugor languages ​​are similar to the Alatai languages, the grammar of Japanese and Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian, and others have similarities
  11. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 15 December 2015 15: 16
    0
    According to Yu. Nesbø, a Norwegian writer, it was in his face that it was predatory like a wolverine, which is found only among Finns, Russians and Sami!
    1. -Traveller-
      -Traveller- 15 December 2015 21: 05
      +1
      as a Murmansk citizen who often visits Finnish, I can say that it is difficult to confuse Finnish with Russian, and even with the Sami, at least with our Lovozersky.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  12. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 15 December 2015 15: 38
    0
    look at the map!! What is Maykop and pit culture? The author from where fell !!! Pitted - combed ceramics for thousands of years !! Or he has Russia in the Don steppes! The same to me Scythians!
    1. kalibr
      15 December 2015 16: 13
      0
      And Don is not Russia? And maykop? Well, yes, once it was not Russia, but now it is Russia.
  13. a housewife
    a housewife 15 December 2015 16: 25
    0
    In general, I remember 15 years ago in the Vremya program they said that genetics proved that all people had one woman - the foremother. About the man was proved only after three years, it was somehow more difficult, but the father of all mankind is also one. smile
  14. venaya
    venaya 15 December 2015 16: 55
    +1
    Indo-Aryan language was introduced into India about 3500 years ago, most likely from the region of Central Asia, carriers of the genetic Y-lines R1a1-L657, G2a, J2a, J2b.

    An interesting remark, given that the greatest coincidence in the number of words relative to the ancient Sanskrit language, with its original writing, falls on the dialect of the Russian language of the Arkhangelsk Pomors. In this light (the absence of any mention of the connection between Sanskrit and the Russian language proper) causes serious surprise throughout this article. If the word "ind" is often associated with the ancient meaning of this word as "water", then such words as "Ar" (Yar, Yarilo) that is the sun and "Ra" recall the English "Russian" (Rashin) as well as the expression "Happy New Year "- where the sun god is also mentioned, then we can safely say that under the term" Indo-European language "for simplicity (without naturally losing its essence and semantic richness) it is easier, at least in Russian-language articles, to use the rather accurate term" Old Russian language ". I assure you that the meaning of the article will not change at all, and perhaps it will be even more accurate and more understandable, or even in the title of the article "... from Adam and Eve ..." the terminology of the semi-African language is used. There is such a feeling that the article was written by the author with a view from another (African) continent.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 December 2015 17: 44
      +3
      External phonetic matches of sounding words of different languages
      leads to completely false conclusions about their common origin.
      There are plenty of such traps. It can be easily deduced that a tribe in the Amazon
      common roots with the Scandinavians.
      In Israel (for fun) such "comparisons" were made. Like, "Mos-kva",
      this is the Hebrew "mas-kawua" - "permanent tax". Say, on the border
      Harare Haganate was a village where they took tax from merchants ...
      We understand that this is nonsense, but this way you can "spin" anything ...
      1. venaya
        venaya 15 December 2015 18: 02
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        this is nonsense, but you can "spin" anything you like this way ...

        In Hebrew, two words of fairly obvious origin from the Russian language sound quite clearly: Jesus Navin и Talmud, when I found out their meanings, I realized that they got into Aramaic languages ​​from the languages ​​of the autochthonous tribes of those places of the Felistimans / Pelazgs. If there is other information, I will be glad to hear all opinions available on this subject.
      2. but still
        but still 15 December 2015 18: 18
        0
        External phonetic matches of sounding words of different languages
        leads to completely false conclusions about their common origin.

        Scientists have found not only phonetic similarities, but also semantic - semantic similarities of the languages ​​of the Indo-European language family. But you read on the net that when your ancestors translated and rewrote the Vedas from Sanskrit, they could not cope with semantic concepts and created primitive scriptures about the origin of the first people and peoples. And the Sumerians rewrote some legends. By the way, ancient historians believed that Dionysus founded the ancient Indian civilization. Dionysus the Thracian.
      3. kalibr
        15 December 2015 18: 26
        0
        And the Sura river on which Penza stands was named by the ancient Egyptians: Su - water - Ra - Sun - "Water Ra". Only this is really nonsense, but it can be promoted!
        1. but still
          but still 15 December 2015 18: 45
          0
          From the dictionary of Thracian words by Professor Duridanov:

          sura - current, flow; stream wink
          1. but still
            but still 15 December 2015 20: 45
            0
            Now I’ve watched a film about the last Bulgarian defense fortress near the Sura River in the Penza region - there throughout the forest lie the remains of unburied Bulgarians, who were defeated by the Mongols. Archaeologists are excavating.

            By the way, having read everything about the history of the Bulgarians, I am already inclined to believe that the Thracian language is Bulgarian. Only its ancient form. And no, he is not dead.
            By the way, when some nations are conquered by other nations, bilingualism occurs - both the language of the conquered (in everyday life) and the language of the conquerors (in the official environment) are used.
            1. kalibr
              15 December 2015 20: 56
              0
              Isn't this about Zolotarevka? And if yes, then why and who decided that they were Bulgarians?
              1. but still
                but still 16 December 2015 03: 17
                0
                Isn't this about Zolotarevka? And if yes, then why and who decided that they were Bulgarians?


                Yes. Your Penza archaeologist professor smile What do you not know about your prominent learned countrymen? request
                1. kalibr
                  16 December 2015 07: 22
                  0
                  I just know very well, I work with Mr. Belorybkin at the same university. I was embarrassed that the Bulgarians ... he did not seem to write about the Bulgarians there. And I have both his articles and the book about the Zolotarevsky settlement, and I myself have been there many times. Including came to him there for excavations.
                  1. but still
                    but still 16 December 2015 13: 45
                    0
                    I was embarrassed that the Bulgarians ...


                    I understand that you do not like it
            2. -Traveller-
              -Traveller- 15 December 2015 21: 31
              +1
              I met such an opinion that Bulgarian is a rapidly evolving Slavic, rid of cases, etc. archaisms
              the reason is an early confusion with the local Thracians and Proto-Bulgarians and the necessary simplification of the language.
              1. but still
                but still 16 December 2015 04: 39
                0
                Quote: -Traveller-
                I met such an opinion that Bulgarian is a rapidly evolving Slavic, rid of cases, etc. archaisms
                the reason is an early confusion with the local Thracians and Proto-Bulgarians and the necessary simplification of the language.


                good I'll try to answer this way. The analyticism of the language speaks of its ancient origin. Originally, of course, Bulgarian was a synthetic language. On the territory of Bulgaria 7 thousand years ago there was an ancient highly cultured civilization (see above the film "Mysteries of Atlantis in the Black Sea"). After the flood in the Black Sea and an ecological disaster due to the transformation of the gramadic sweet-water lake into a salty sea, the inhabitants of the Black Sea region began to leave their places of residence. Some (or their descendants) reached India at some time, others - to Ireland and Scotland, others - to modern Italy, another group - to Mesopotamia and Egypt. There, these people continued their cultural development, creating the well-known civilizations and languages ​​of the Indo-European language family. Sanskrit, by the way, has one feature that adherents of "Russian" Sanskrit do not remember - the presence of a DUAL number in both Sanskrit and Old Bulgarian. So Sanskrit is closer to Old Bulgarian than to Russian. Ancient historians wrote that Dionysus created the Indian civilization. And he was considered a Thracian.
                Further. Other groups of immigrants from the Balkans created the rest of the Indo-European languages. Interestingly, Latin has cases, but the popular Latin, vulgares, by the 3rd century AD lost cases (!). Still, part of the population still remained in the Balkans after the disaster in the Black Sea - people moved mainly south - to the Rhodope Mountains - numerous Thracian tribes (as Herodotus said, the Thracians were the second largest nation after the Indian). After the invasion of the Romans, one part of the Thracians was destroyed in battle, the other part obeyed the Romans, the third part went to the north and northeast (!) - to the northern Black Sea and Priazovye. There they, together with the gunas and other nations, formed a great power and began to smash the Romans. Later they again entered multinational state formations. Subsequently, Great Bulgaria was formed, from which both the Danube and Volga-Kama Bulgaria were formed. The third part of the Bulgarians remained in the Khazar Kaganate. The fact that the language of the Volga Bulgars along with the Khazars, dead languages, and the living - Chuvash was ranked among the Bulgarian subgroup of Turkic languages ​​is CHESTED BY SCIENTISTS. These languages ​​are artificially and unreasonably ranked as Turkic (read except Wikipedia and other articles).

                As for analyticism, most likely the local Balkan Thracians-Bulgarians lost cases under the influence of the Latin people, and those who lived in the northern Black Sea and Priazovie for 5-6 centuries, preserved the cases and, having returned to their homeland, to the Balkans, in the 7th century, introduced administrative - case variant of Bulgarian. In the same Bulgarian, officially baptized, they created numerous church literature in Old Bulgarian. Or maybe vice versa - those Bulgarians who were 6-7 centuries in the Turkic-speaking neighborly environment lost their cases. Very interesting question. One should read about this - why Bulgarian has become an analytical language.
                1. -Traveller-
                  -Traveller- 16 December 2015 09: 11
                  0
                  let’s without Atlantis, Hyperborea and Lemuria. why is there mythology.
                  Thracians, seven genera, Bulgars, Asparuh, Kubrat, etc. - all this is fairly well studied.
                  Is the Türkic-speaking of the Bulgars, Khazars and Chuvashs questioned? the first time I hear about it.
                  Lunge about Wikipedia is inappropriate.
                  1. but still
                    but still 16 December 2015 13: 25
                    0
                    the first time I hear about it


                    And judging by your comments, you hear a lot about the first time:

                    1. That in the territory of Bulgaria 7-8 thousand years ago there was a highly developed civilization

                    2. That Türkic-speaking (more precisely, belonging to a group of Türkic languages) of both Bulgarians / Bulgars, and Khazars, and Chuvashs is being questioned.

                    Somehow you hear very selectively

                    You say that the Thracians and Bulgars are quite well studied. REVERSE - both Thracians and Bulgarians / Bulgars are still very poorly understood. As for the study of the Thracians, there are no problems and there will not be, but trouble with the Bulgarians - their history is deliberately hidden, or simply ascribed to others for centuries. It is good that there are many true honest Russian scientists who uphold the truth regardless of the ideology and policy of the authorities. Academician D.S. Likhachev belonged to such scientists, who managed to maneuver in the harsh conditions of political dictatorship, after serving, of course, before that in Solovki for his integrity and honesty.
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. -Traveller-
          -Traveller- 15 December 2015 21: 07
          +2
          only “su” - “water” is in Turkic.
          1. kalibr
            15 December 2015 22: 01
            0
            And in Egyptian too ... only suu - but "u" was lost as always, so it turned out su-ra, and it could also be a sura from the Koran ... why not? Arab merchants went to Russia ... By this principle, you can dream up anything and make a lot of discoveries!
          2. but still
            but still 16 December 2015 04: 44
            0
            Whoa! So the Egyptians spoke Turkic! laughing
            1. -Traveller-
              -Traveller- 16 December 2015 08: 59
              0
              yeah, along with the Sumerians, dingir tengri is here too
              1. but still
                but still 16 December 2015 13: 34
                0
                yeah, and the Vedas are written in Russian. And the Etruscans are Russians
                1. -Traveller-
                  -Traveller- 16 December 2015 15: 45
                  0
                  these jokes can go on and on. many believe in them.
                  you are sure of a highly developed Thracian civilization. where did you get it in 5-6 thousand BC?
      4. gladcu2
        gladcu2 15 December 2015 20: 51
        0
        voyaka

        All methods only officially recognized by the academy. All the rest are about the technique, from the evil one.
      5. gla172
        gla172 15 December 2015 21: 03
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        In Israel (for fun)



        In principle, Israel itself, to some extent, was created for "fun" ..... ("sorry" that not with a capital letter).
    2. kalibr
      15 December 2015 18: 32
      -1
      And we are all from there ... from Africa! Alas, it is!
      1. but still
        but still 15 December 2015 18: 40
        0
        Of course, before the Balkan period, we are all from Africa, or rather, the area where Ethiopia is. The article deals with the genetic map of the settlement of peoples speaking the languages ​​of the Indo-European language family. Therefore, we are not talking about Africa smile
      2. venaya
        venaya 15 December 2015 18: 59
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        А we are all from there ... from Africa! Alas, it is!

        YOUR EVIDENCE !!!
        This theory is just very successfully broken by the American researcher Michael Cremo, to whom I have already referred. Apparently you, too, could not get acquainted with his works, there he describes objects of artificial origin with an age of 2,5 billion years old. The complete discrepancy between the facts actually investigated and theories that are not substantiated just causes the undisguised hatred of the officialdom personally towards him. And they are trying to bury the real facts as far as possible or simply destroy them.
        1. kalibr
          15 December 2015 20: 32
          0
          I already wrote to you: there are 10000 facts confirming X. There is one confirming W. Do you believe W. Your Remo did not prove anything in fact. Two billion humanity did not exist. The one from which we came later. For 2.5 on Earth, THOUSANDS of "humanities" could be replaced, and not know about each other: trilobiloids, reptilians, dolphinoids and other idas - choose. But we have nothing to do with them. And most importantly ... Here he successfully smashes. Breaks is a process! The bottom line is no! So what? Break everything on the basis of this? And what will we replace? So (strictly between us - in a conversation of an unscientific nature!) - "and he went ..." You never know what the Yankees will come up with!
      3. IS-80
        IS-80 15 December 2015 20: 07
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        And we are all from there ... from Africa! Alas, it is!

        Maybe so. But when it was considered a Neanderthal ancestor of man. In general, let's see what they dig up further.
        1. kalibr
          15 December 2015 20: 43
          +1
          There is an interesting novel by the famous British author Jean Auell - "Children of the Earth" in 6 volumes. It is clear that this is a novel, it is clear that the author of sex has stuffed a lot of it there, it is clear that the heroine is a heroine in every sense. But ... everything related to archeology is 100% there. So if you read, constantly separating flies from cutlets, then a lot of interesting things can be learned. There, literally, pages from English scientific journals are inserted. The film "Clan of the Cave Bear" was filmed in 1986 based on the first book.
  15. gla172
    gla172 15 December 2015 17: 08
    +1
    ________ In the monograph of the famous historian Y.D. Petukhov, the essence of the discovery he made in the field of Indo-European studies and the entire ancient history of mankind is set out: ... e. in Asia Minor, the Balkans, the Apennines, in Central Europe, throughout the Mediterranean, in the Northern Black Sea region ... Without exception, all the languages ​​of the Indo-European language family, including "Ancient Greek" and Sanskrit, developed from the single language of the Protorians. There are also the origins of all mythologies, including "ancient", Indo-Aryan, Germanic, Celtic, etc.____________----.
    1. but still
      but still 15 December 2015 17: 58
      -1
      smile Exactly. The ancestors of ancient civilizations and the Indo-European language family are Thracians, whose direct descendants are modern Bulgarians (according to a genetic study, every fourth to fifth Bulgarian has Balkan genes 7800 years old, according to the same study, modern Bulgarians are closest to Northern Greeks and Northern Italians, and at the level of 2000 years ago, there is a kinship with the Hungarians - they fought together with the army of Attila). After the flood in the Black Sea, the ancestors of the Thracian tribes from the Balkans settled east to northern India, west to modern Italy, south to the countries of the Middle East, north to Ireland and Scotland. The second resettlement of the Thracian tribes from the Balkans occurred at the turn of the new era due to the invasion of distant relatives - the Roman Empire. The second settlement went in the direction of the northern Black Sea coast to the east. Those. the ancestors of the Thracians first settled there around 5 millennium BC. and later with the arrival of the Romans in the Balkans.
      1. kalibr
        15 December 2015 18: 28
        0
        It will be about your Thracians ...
        1. but still
          but still 15 December 2015 18: 40
          0
          they can and yours smile
          1. kalibr
            15 December 2015 20: 37
            -1
            Well this is in the sense that you were the first to write about it. And so, yes, we are all from the same ship and his name is Africa. Well, except for those who consider themselves descendants of reptilians from the constellation Dragon or from Sirius.
      2. -Traveller-
        -Traveller- 15 December 2015 21: 39
        0
        Thracians do not pull on their ancestors, by and large they are known from 1 millennium BC, i.e. obviously later than the same Greeks or Hittites.
        1. but still
          but still 16 December 2015 04: 49
          0
          Quote: -Traveller-
          Thracians do not pull on their ancestors, by and large they are known from 1 millennium BC, i.e. obviously later than the same Greeks or Hittites.


          Look above the film "Mysteries of Atlantis in the Black Sea" - the so-called "Culture of Varna" 7 thousand years!
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Glot
      Glot 15 December 2015 18: 43
      +2
      In the monograph of the famous historian Yu. D. Petukhov ...


      Yes, just a reservation amateur historian.
      In the first half of the nineties I got acquainted with certain articles of this lover. Articles in the newspaper were about the classification of all kinds of monsters, werewolves and other evil spirits. There, as far as I remember, he told in detail which of them where and when they like to appear and why they are dangerous for people and so on. laughing
      And something else about AFFtor:
      In the Encyclopedia of Fantasy, edited by Vl. Gakova says: “Petukhov was made famous not so much by his many novels and novels, not distinguished by artistic merit, but by Petukhov’s pathological desire to shock the public with the obsessive propaganda of his own“ genius ”: numerous interviews with himself, advertising posters and booklets, statements on the press.” After 1990, the works of Petukhov were not published by any publishing house, except those belonging to Petukhov himself, not only were not awarded any prizes, but were not even nominated for them.

      And about his trilogy:
      The most famous work of the author is a work in the genre folk history about the origin of all modern languages ​​(peoples) from one - the language (people) of the Rus.


      In general, do not read this. smile
      1. kalibr
        15 December 2015 20: 35
        0
        I remember that we were already recommended this ... about women of "reptilian section" I wrote. One here very sensibly asked: these are those who are across?
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Andrey Skokovsky
    Andrey Skokovsky 15 December 2015 22: 33
    +2
    Dear author, do you seriously think that someone will explode on the Internet to translate all this foreign language?
    or do you think it’s very convenient to spell English in recollection of the remaining knowledge of it?
    Or do you think that in Russia everyone is obliged to know this "great" language?
    are you not from the ministry of education? Is the real surname not Lebanese?

    if you are writing an article on a Russian forum then write it in Russian, and not in some gibberish.

    ..... I didn’t put an estimate, maybe I scored on the article after the second table on foreign language ........
    1. kalibr
      16 December 2015 07: 29
      -1
      It was about the fact that "there" are hiding information about our great past. Therefore, I specially placed foreign language texts. The fact that you do not know English is your problem and trouble, by the way. A modern person should speak foreign languages, although not necessarily English. Laziness of mind, you know, does not lead to good, limits your opportunities for well-being, makes you dependent on one-sided propaganda.
      1. but still
        but still 16 December 2015 13: 39
        0
        It was about the fact that "there" they hide information about our great past. Therefore, I specially placed foreign language texts.


        So you, it turns out, the author of the article! fellow Now everything is clear to me.

        I also don't like that the great past of the Bulgarians is hidden "there" smile
  18. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 15 December 2015 23: 51
    +1
    Very correct and absolutely scientifically accurate article! More to these! Although the author and so pleases all the readers of VO in recent excursions into ancient military history!

    The only time is that megalithic structures are incorrectly depicted - they exist in the Eastern Mediterranean and in the Caucasus and the Crimea ...
  19. Skifotavr
    Skifotavr 21 December 2015 08: 13
    0
    I read various comments and realized that after an unassailable person, after such a mess, there would forever be no desire to get to the bottom of historical truth. Apparently that's the calculation. In short, Adam wore a dill-Tatar forelock and bloomers, and Eve was a Bulgarian bun ... sad
  20. Crown
    Crown 2 January 2016 21: 29
    0
    Read the ancient epic Ural Batyr and Gilgamesh, one to one.