Military Review

Soviet participation in the reorganization of Japan

25
В stories The Second World War, there are many unsaid and conscious omissions, especially if we talk about the Soviet historiography, from which Russian historiography originated. In particular, for political reasons, she held back the participation of the USSR in the European Paris Peace Treaty of 1947, often ignoring even its very existence. The reasons are clear - the Soviet leadership, in order to look good in the international arena, has forgiven Hitler's accomplices too much, ignoring the people's aspirations for just retribution. Another important topic that was diligently silent in the historical science of the USSR and modern Russia was the Tokyo process and the Soviet participation in the post-war reconstruction of Japan. It cannot be said that it was significant, but it is also strange not to mention it at all - at least for reasons of historical justice.




The Russian textbooks still often contain the phrase that Japan was occupied by some Americans. From this, the authors of such allegations directly or indirectly conclude that, they say, later, Tokyo became anti-Soviet and pro-American precisely because of this. In reality, it was a little different. Yes, on the four main Japanese islands - Honshu, Sikkoku, Kyushu and Hokkaido - approximately 350 of thousands of American soldiers from the occupying forces were deployed. But at the same time they were supported by thousands of British, Canadian, New Zealand, Australian military. The Soviet troops were on South Sakhalin and the Kuril archipelago, which were not even considered a colony of Japan, but a part of the country itself, where there were Japanese cities, railroads and factories. In addition, the USSR occupied the north of Korea, which, although it was a colony, was part of the pre-war Japanese state. So, in fact, the USSR had its own zone of occupation, which, with due skill, could give Moscow a weighty argument at the Allied consultations in Japan.

Soviet participation in the reorganization of Japan


The population of South Sakhalin alone was estimated at 400000 — 500000 people, not to mention the millions of Japanese from Korea. Some group of Soviet military was present in the American zone of occupation, although here their power was minimal. By the way, China also had its occupation zone - this is Taiwan Island and the Penghu Archipelago, but the civil war in this country quickly led the Chinese out of the real players.

As we see, initially the conditions for bargaining with the Americans from Moscow were, although very limited. There were often only a few kilometers of sea straits between Soviet and American troops stationed on different islands. In this sense, by the way, it is worth mentioning some modern speculations in the Russian press regarding the Kuril archipelago and Hokkaido. So, the Kuriles were lost by Russia at all not during the Russian-Japanese war, as some authors even claim to quite authoritative publications, but several decades before and in a quite peaceful way. As for Hokkaido, which, according to the inventions of some journalists, was also supposed to be occupied by the Soviet Union, this is also not true. According to the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration, Hokkaido remained under the sovereignty of post-war Japan, and before that came under American control by agreement between the allies. Any attempt to take Hokkaido by force would inevitably end in confrontation with the United States, whose advantage at sea and in the air over the Soviet Navy was indisputable.

So, the USSR had its occupation zone, and its representative accepted the capitulation on the battleship Missouri, so a logical step was inviting him to the Tokyo process over the leadership of the Japanese empire. The main difference of this court from the Nuremberg trial was that there was not even the ostentatious equality of prosecutors - the Americans emphasized in every possible way that they were the main ones. Judges and prosecutors of other countries (Great Britain, Australia, the Philippines, the Soviet Union, New Zealand, India, France, the Netherlands, Canada and China) acted only as a kind of support team designed to give legitimacy to what was happening. The judge, Major General I.M. Zaryanov, spoke on the Soviet side; S.A. Golunsky (later replaced by A.N. Vasilyev) was appointed the prosecutor, L.N. Smirnov as deputy prosecutor. Among the charges brought was planning for a war against the Soviet Union.



Since the fact of mass, and, importantly, organized terror against civilians and prisoners of war was beyond doubt (the evidence turned out to be more than enough), the question was only in identifying and punishing those responsible. The charges against the defendants were divided into three categories: “A” (crimes against peace, unleashing war), “B” (massacres) and “C” (crimes against humanity). Of the 29 defendants, 7 were executed by a court sentence, 3 did not survive to the end of the investigation. Among them, Hideki Tojo - Prime Minister of the Empire, during which the Pacific War was unleashed.

Of the 16 people convicted for life, 3 died in custody, and the rest were released in 1954-55, after the restoration of Japanese sovereignty. Some of them turned into big politics and re-occupied ministerial posts. This is by the way about when the “revision of the results of the Second World War” actually began. Nevertheless, the very fact of the Tokyo process and the Soviet participation in it remains for some reason a dark page for modern Russian society.

In general, it can be stated that with the onset of the 1950s, Americans decisively and firmly removed all former allies from participation in the internal affairs of the Land of the Rising Sun, which became the same American vassal in Asia as the United Kingdom in Europe or Israel in the Middle East. In order to restrain Japanese politicians, who still remembered the glorious days of independence, they were forced to impose two treaties that bound them hand and foot. The first is the San Francisco Peace Treaty, which left the southern islands in perpetual American occupation. The second is the original version of the US-Japan security treaty, which provided for the direct intervention of the US Army in the internal affairs of Tokyo, if Washington deems it necessary. By the time these provisions were liquidated, two decades had passed, during which a new generation of Japanese politicians focused on the United States of America had grown.

The possibilities of Moscow in the new pro-American Japan turned out to be even less than in the independent imperial Japan of the past. Was there a chance to avoid such a diplomatic fiasco? Hypothetically - yes, he was. But what was done was done. Although the economic relations between the USSR and Japan improved, Moscow throughout the Cold War was forced to keep numerous military units on the island of the Far East in anticipation of the Japanese-American invasion. It was the alliance of Tokyo and Washington and, to a lesser extent, the Kuril issue, that led our countries on opposite sides of the barricades.
Author:
25 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. dummy
    dummy 4 December 2015 08: 05 New
    +3
    Thank you for the facts. Discussions on the subject of Moscow screwed up in front of Washington are given for what? And if the USSR is to be blasphemed, then at least give a couple of explanations, otherwise it looks liberalistic.
    1. Varies
      Varies 4 December 2015 09: 17 New
      +1
      Washington, in his opinion, had more rights due to the fact that he was the main opponent of Japan and the war began for him with Pearl Harbor. To lubricate the allies, no matter what, it was clear that they had no desire and, in a strategic plan, was completely controlled by Japan, it looked like a more important element for future possible wars.
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 4 December 2015 13: 53 New
        +4
        Japan became immediately after its discovery by the American Piri in 1854 such an element, because immediately after that in the next 1855 it climbed the Kuril Islands.

        It's just that the Japanese "realized their mistake" in 1945 in time and immediately called the Americans back, under the threat of being quickly occupied by the Soviet Army through narrow penetrations from the north.

        The main contribution to the defeat of Japan was made by the USSR, defeating its army and depriving it of the bacteriological weapons of mass destruction, with which Japan was going to respond in the USA to the destruction of its cities by carpet bombing and nuclear weapons.

        Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands are Soviet land, Chinese Manchuria, Korea is an independent state, and Japan is Japan, and the defeated Japanese had no illusions on this score, as there was therefore no Soviet occupation zone there.

        The Soviet occupation zone in Japan, according to the Yalta agreements, was to include the island of Hokkaido (which was included in Japan only in 1879 and disputed by the Russian Empire), and half of Honshu, as the country that would have made (and actually contributed) the largest and key contribution to the defeat of Japan.

        If the USSR could capture Japan in 1945 from small landing craft covered by base aviation in just a couple of months, then the Americans - not earlier than a few years later, and then if the USSR allowed them to use their bridgehead and airfields in Kamchatka. Well, somehow, neither the UDC nor the AUG were used during the landing in Normandy, and even in the Mediterranean, the landing was in Morocco and not immediately in Anzio, in Italy, or in French Marseille, because large ships are very vulnerable to coastal aviation strikes. Therefore, the Doolittle raid was of a propagandistic nature, after which, without waiting for the Japanese aircraft, the Hornet skidded back from the Japanese coast at full speed.
        All that was enough for the Americans was Okinawa with its only two airfields, which had to be crushed before landing, and hoisting the flag on Ivo-Jim in six.
        The USSR would crush Japan, regardless of American efforts, because the fleet in the coastal strait zone doesn’t solve anything against aviation, and the USSR’s aviation was better than Japanese, like the Army. As a result, the emperor would have to flee to this very Okinawa, as then Chiang Kai-shek fled from the Maoists to Taiwan, so the Japanese simply let the Americans in and began to lick them what they had instead of a boot.
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 4 December 2015 15: 18 New
          0
          ... and since there were no such illusions, the Japanese civilian population was massively evacuated from these "territories" by itself. As well as from Korea.
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 December 2015 01: 23 New
          0
          Quote: Scraptor
          If the USSR could capture Japan in 1945 with small landing forces covered by base aircraft in just a couple of months

          Why not in a couple of days?
          Quote: Scraptor
          The USSR would crush Japan regardless of American efforts, because the fleet in the coastal strait zone doesn’t solve anything against aviation, and the USSR’s aviation was better than Japanese

          Yeah. Explore at your leisure what Soviet aircraft (and the fleet, by the way) achieved during the landing on the same Shumsha.
          1. Scraptor
            Scraptor 5 December 2015 01: 59 New
            0
            Because Sakhalin - in a couple of weeks.

            Didn’t they even take this island? And in general, none of the Kuril Islands?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 December 2015 12: 48 New
              0
              Quote: Scraptor
              Because Sakhalin - in a couple of weeks.

              But nothing that Sakhalin was captured during the LAND operation?
              Quote: Scraptor
              And in general, none of the Kuril Islands?

              One took, called Shumshu. The rest did not take, but occupied, since the Japanese had surrendered by this time. And about how they took Shumsha - unsubscribed below, since you don’t even know this
              1. Scraptor
                Scraptor 5 December 2015 21: 43 New
                0
                And nothing that the Kuril Islands then during the landing? And there were landings on Sakhalin too. And to Korea. The Japanese resisted not only Shumshu, they capitulated only to the "allies". Fighting took place in the Kuriles until September 9-11.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 December 2015 23: 57 New
                  0
                  Quote: Scraptor
                  And nothing then the Kuril Islands during the landing?

                  Go learn the materiel, since the mind has offended the mind. The Kuril Islands took after surrender, the Japanese did not resist, but surrendered when our troops appeared.
                  Quote: Scraptor
                  And there were also landings on Sakhalin. And to Korea

                  Yeah. tactical assault forces, to the battalion of marines without covering the Navy and Air Force.
                  Quote: Scraptor
                  The Japanese resisted not only Shumshu, they capitulated only to the "allies". Fighting took place in the Kuriles until September 9-11.

                  Read the story of the capture of the Kuril Islands. At least something.
                  1. Scraptor
                    Scraptor 6 December 2015 00: 06 New
                    0
                    Go learn the history of the Kuril operation ... wherever they were and were not evacuated, they resisted. The assignment of surrender was fictitious, so only a freshly reproduced general - liaison officer in the American headquarters was present on it from the USSR, and no marshal was sent from Vladivostok specifically for this, and they could not send it, because the battles with the Japanese did not stop, although the Americans , about the horror before the "signing of surrender" in Yokohama had been unloaded for a week, and in the bay of Tokyo there was the same American licor. The Japanese stopped resisting the Americans before signing it for more than 10 days, the Soviet troops where there was an opportunity to resist for another 10 days.
                    Before that, the same tops were with the Germans, only there the handicap of the Americans was even more than a month.

                    With the cover of both the Navy and the Navy, despite the Americans mining these Korean ports, although it was specifically agreed that they are not in the US operating zone.

                    Read it yourself ... and write about SKVVP bully
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2015 00: 28 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      Go learn the history of the Kuril operation ... wherever they were and were not evacuated, they resisted.

                      Yeah. And since besides Shumshu they didn’t resist anywhere, your attempt to look smart again past the cash register.
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      The spelling of surrender was a fiction, so the USSR only had a freshly reproduced general - a liaison officer in the American headquarters - and they didn’t send any marshal from Vladivostok specifically for this.

                      But the Japanese for some reason were deeply do not care. Before capitulation, they resisted, and after - no. So it goes.
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      because with the Japanese fights did not stop

                      Yeah, tell me where the Japanese fought with the Soviet Union after the surrender (in fact, in some places it was just interesting to once again reveal your complete ignorance of history).
                      Quote: Scraptor
                      and write about SKVVP

                      There will be time - necessary.
                      1. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 6 December 2015 01: 17 New
                        0
                        "Resistance-free landing", that is, the usual unloading at the port of American marines in Yokohama on August 28, 1945, is it before the surrender on September 2, 1945, or after the surrender?
                        You have a break in the template and escape from reality, or are bombing, but there is nothing to object to? Count your dollars, cashier ...
                        The paper on board the battleship was waved, and the order (in the case of these Russians) did not reach the distant Japanese garrisons - and everything was still there, that’s all. Also, the Americans reached the Elbe on April 12, four days before the start of the Berlin operation ... and how they had not yet captured it! But Tokyo, and even Sapporo, were captured.

                        Now there’s time, why don’t you write? bully
  2. alicante11
    alicante11 4 December 2015 08: 06 New
    +6
    Well, the territories listed by the author remained with Russia. The Kurils and South Sakhalin became part of it, and an allied regime of the "Kimanids" was established in North Korea. And there was nothing special to "trade" with. We could not give up the island territories, since this is an exit to the Ocean. And the Americans looked at Korea as their own full-fledged trophy, which they tried to win back. And it is much better to have a somewhat reckless (although it is better to call it eccentricity), but frankly anti-American DPRK near the eastern GVMB than the Republic of Korea lying under the amers.
    So we didn't really have much choice. The IVS did not want to quarrel with the Americans, believing that, following the example of Roosevelt, one could deal with them on an equal footing. Therefore, he did not accept the Japanese probe to ensure the preservation of the independence of the Empire. And, of course, they understood that Soviet support would have to be paid. Of course, the Japanese acted "ugly" during the war, and crimes against humanity do not paint them. But didn't the Americans and other Europeans also sin the same? "Drown them all" - isn't this amer's submariners' slogan? And I'm not even talking about nuclear explosions and a firestorm in Tokyo (Dresden). So dealing with the Japanese was definitely worth it. The only thing is that all the concessions had to be taken in advance in case the Americans were not afraid of our intervention on the side of Japan.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 4 December 2015 15: 21 New
      0
      After the Americans occupied all of Japan, spitting on the Yalta and earlier treaties on its division, they were very surprised why the Soviet Union did not occupy all of Korea in response.
      1. Kibalchish
        5 December 2015 03: 19 New
        0
        A link to the section agreement, please.
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 5 December 2015 03: 25 New
          0
          Walrus still on secret protocols to him? You can find the map itself in Google in pictures for "postwar division of Japan".
          1. Kibalchish
            5 December 2015 11: 29 New
            0
            These were Amer's personal Wishlist. military in case of emergency invasion of Japan. There were no such agreements between the leadership of the USSR and the USA.
            1. Scraptor
              Scraptor 5 December 2015 21: 39 New
              0
              Personal Wishlist began when they took all of Japan for themselves, and these cards are the results of the Yalta agreements.

              It's just the opposite for you ...
  3. avva2012
    avva2012 4 December 2015 08: 48 New
    +4
    Of course, the Japanese acted "ugly" during the war, and crimes against humanity do not paint them.
    In general, if you look at what the Japanese did in China, then at some points, the Germans nervously smoke aside. In Japan, after the war, there was no such persecution of performers as in Germany. And, a lot of creatures, calmly survived to old age.
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 4 December 2015 10: 04 New
      0
      Some even fought for 30 years in the jungle and catacombs.
      War is a terrible thing.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 4 December 2015 14: 50 New
        0
        Well, that was one cadre. You see, they forgot to say to him that the war is over. And, I thought that a joke about a man who in Belarus, derailed trains after the war, it's just ridiculous. Life, it turns out, is still not such anecdotes can tell.
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 5 December 2015 00: 53 New
          0
          There were many of these, and he was the last in his detachment of "hermit partisans".
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 4 December 2015 10: 33 New
      -1
      In general, if you look at what the Japanese did in China


      In my opinion, ANY crime against humanity, regardless of the number of victims and the method of causing suffering, is unacceptable. I do not condone the Japanese, I say that from the point of view of morality, interacting with amers and Yapes is the same thing. But from the point of view of realpolitiks, supporting the Japanese was more profitable. Of course, this is an IVS error, but not a fundamental one and does not cast a shadow on it.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 4 December 2015 10: 56 New
        -3
        Stalin, could not agree with war criminals! Of course the United States bombed Dresden, dropped nuclear weapons on Japan. But. Bacteriological weapons were not tested on prisoners; they were not affected by cold. And, they had no history of the Nanjing massacre. According to international laws, this is so. Yes, and human, too.
        1. alicante11
          alicante11 4 December 2015 12: 07 New
          +1
          But. Bacteriological weapons were not tested on prisoners; they were not affected by cold.


          And is it better to destroy hundreds of thousands of civilians? You do not understand? This is all contrary to human nature. This is all ugliness. But they are ALL. And this is not an insult, but a statement of the fact that they are different. Therefore, if we allowed ourselves to cooperate with some freaks, then why couldn’t we cooperate with other freaks?
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 4 December 2015 14: 45 New
            0
            After such a war, which happened here, Stalin had to take into account the international situation and obey international treaties. And is it better to destroy hundreds of thousands of civilians? You do not understand? I understand that my attitude to the USA is no better than to a rabid dog. Sorry, but these are all emotions, although understandable. To fight, also with the USA, we had no strength. Ah, to cooperate with Japan? No, there certainly could have been messed up, with no options.
            1. Scraptor
              Scraptor 5 December 2015 01: 16 New
              0
              Not to obey, but to follow ... The Americans did not follow the Yalta treaties regarding the partition of Japan, violating them. It’s just that if the war with the United States started because of this, then the Soviet people after the Second World War would not be satisfied with this self-interest because of Hokkaido and half of Honshu. Although knocking out Americans from Europe, from Alaska and from Japan was then quite possible, and nuclear (which the Americans had already used up everything) was not the only type of WMD.
              At first, the Americans in Europe also occupied part of Czechoslovakia and about half of the territory of the eastern occupation zone in Germany, but were forced to leave there. If they had not left, the people would have quickly understood, especially in this German zone were the richest uranium mines, from the ores of which the bulk of Soviet nuclear warheads were made for the first 15 years.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 December 2015 01: 27 New
                0
                Quote: Scraptor
                Although knocking out Americans from Europe, from Alaska and from Japan was then quite possible

                fool
                The only place we could really defeat the Americans is Europe. The USSR did not have any naval or air forces for landing in Japan (especially in Alaska)
                1. Scraptor
                  Scraptor 5 December 2015 02: 09 New
                  0
                  Again rave, knock yourself still on the fork and turn in the clouse ... By the way, where is the promised article about SKVVP? laughing bully

                  The war would start right away, the air forces of the Americans in the oncoming battle over Japan would have ended very quickly, even if they had managed to quickly transfer them to the Japanese islands in sufficient quantities, and the straits are overcome, unlike the ocean, not at the UDC (in peacetime) but at small amphibious assault, under its air cover.
                  In Alaska it would be more difficult than in Japan due to the remoteness of Kamchatka and Chukotka from the Trans-Siberian Railway, and a large shoulder along the freezing Northern Sea Route.
                  In Europe, it’s also not just because of England and its well-functioning air defense and numerous airfields.

                  The Americans didn’t land on combat in Japan, in which the Air Force was much weaker than the Soviet, for several years they walked around and around nibbling its islands remote for the radius of action of coastal fighter and attack aircraft and bombing themselves with them, rather than deck from aircraft carriers, then they there separately-peacefully and not battered unloaded! When the Soviet Kuril landing operation was not even in the beginning.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 December 2015 12: 44 New
                    0
                    Quote: Scraptor
                    Rave again

                    Again rude for the lack of a clear (or at least inaudible) argument
                    Quote: Scraptor
                    By the way, where is the promised article about SKVVP?

                    Alas, there is no time for it, but it's a pity. You are not worth the discussion, but once again to demonstrate the depth of your errors would be fun.
                    Quote: Scraptor
                    If the war began immediately, the air forces of the Americans in the oncoming battle over Japan would very quickly end

                    Why would it end with them? You take a look at the globe, where is Japan and where is the USSR. And measure the distance. And compare with the radius of the then aircraft. Then, perhaps, it will reach you that no aerial combat of Soviet aircraft over Japan is simply impossible.
                    Quote: Scraptor
                    and the straits are overcome, unlike the ocean, not at the UDC (in peacetime), but with small amphibious means, under their own air cover.

                    What straits ?! How are you going to get to these straits? :))) Or do you seriously think that you can organize a landing from Sakhalin ?! wassat Then you are even more gifted than I thought laughing
                    The Laperouse Strait is not a puddle; it is 43 kilometers wide, even in its narrowest part. Soviet aviation (more precisely, the few forces that could be deployed at the South Sakhalin airfields) did not have any experience of naval warfare and would be immediately crushed by US carrier aircraft.
                    the Baltic, who nevertheless had some experience of military operations, could not sink the "Schlesien" - the battleship of the pre-dreadnought era. To destroy the "Niobe" (nee - an armored cruiser of the Holland type of 3800 tons), 131 aircraft were needed. Against this background, your statement that the USSR air forces, it turns out, were more experienced than the American ones, claims the Darwin Prize.
                    Quote: Scraptor
                    Americans don't land combat in Japan

                    We, too, do not believe it. Rather, once on a battlefield they landed on Shumsha (the rest is nothing more than tactical landings). And this was the ONLY operation of the Soviet-Japanese war, in which the USSR had more losses than the Japanese. This is despite the fact that:
                    1) Landed within the radius of the native aviation (which could not provide any assistance, although it tried)
                    2) They landed under the cover of their own fleet (which turned out to be frankly harmful - the shelling of the fortified area from 100-mm guns of the guard officers did not harm him, but warned the Japanese about the operation)
                    3) There was no counter-action of the Japanese fleet, aviation - practically the same.
                    And in the end, they won solely thanks to our superiority in the ability to fight on land - despite the fact that the landed troops acted against superior enemy forces, which also had tanks, our infantry simply spread the samurai around the island.
                    1. Scraptor
                      Scraptor 5 December 2015 23: 04 New
                      0
                      Again raving (and being rude) ... There could not have been any opposition of the Japanese fleet to the Soviet landing - back in 1934 he fanned out from Soviet flying boats, leaving two captured earlier Soviet TFRs, when they drove Japanese poachers in Soviet terror waters to fend for themselves, and even wishing (honking) them "happy sailing" crying

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      What straits ?!

                      Those that are not oceans are blocked even by heavy artillery and even more so by basic aviation. And under this cover they are overcome on small amphibious means, on which no kamikaze will be enough. laughing

                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Soviet aviation (more precisely, the few forces that could be deployed at the South Sakhalin airfields) did not have any experience of naval warfare and would be immediately crushed by US carrier aircraft ...

                      Already push back chtoli about the American police instead of this neglect of everything Soviet, which is splattering, and since you do not have time on the SKVVP. lol Why are you also so clumsy under the Russian naval national patriot as well as "battleship lover"?
                      Your beloved American aircraft carriers there would not be counted - unsinkable and fireproof Sakhalin airdromes will somehow accommodate more American aircraft carriers, and the USSR had 4 years of naval warfare experience, with much more powerful ones than American German pilots, while these American aircraft carriers were all these 4 years did not risk approaching the Japanese coast, although the Japanese Air Force was weaker than the Soviet.

                      It's just that the war "for the Japanese inheritance" did not rest on the Soviet people, although it would not hurt to punish Japan that fled back on an American leash. Instead, they took only their own ... Everything that was taken by the Chinese was given to the Chinese, and they did not take the Korean south of the 38th parallel (approximately along which it was planned to divide Japan into occupation zones in Yalta).

                      Discussions do not stand you.

                      This supposedly "only landing operation" had to be urgently done impromptu. Before that, if it were not for the American position on them and the intention to disembark there, the Kurils were planned to be cut off by the capture of Hokkaido from Sakhalin and to leave them in their rear.

                      The USSR landed in fortified Korean ports hundreds of kilometers from its bases.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2015 00: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        There couldn’t be any opposition from the Japanese fleet to the Soviet landing - as early as 1934, it was fanning from Soviet flying boats

                        This nonsense is even funny to comment on. Especially on the topic of "flying boats" - are these American catalina tunnels? "Name, sister, name!"
                        And so, in general, for reference - the Japanese imperial in 1934 had Soviet tervodes as he wanted in a pose convenient for him - predatory fishing in our waters exceeded all reasonable limits, and the USSR could not do ANYTHING with this. There was no fleet.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Those that are not oceans are blocked even by heavy artillery, and even less so by basic aviation

                        In the wet erotic dreams of the idiots from history - certainly. In fact, the USSR had nothing that could provide an assault on Hokkado in the face of the American Navy. Like it or not, the USSR could not do ANYTHING even to Shumshu - in the conditions of the complete lack of resistance to the Japanese Navy.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Already push back chtoli about the American police, instead of neglecting everything Soviet that’s splattering, and since you don’t have time

                        I have no neglect for everything Soviet. I have an excellent understanding that in 1945 the USSR Navy was three times behind the US Navy, and the USSR Air Force lost the USA both in materiel and in the experience of naval battles.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Your beloved American aircraft carriers there would not be counted - unsinkable and fireproof Sakhalin airdromes like something more than American aircraft carriers will accommodate,

                        Yeah. Given the fact that as many as 80 (in words - EIGHTY) PF aircraft took part in the land Sakhalin operation, the value of this statement cannot be overestimated laughing
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        and the experience of naval warfare in the USSR was 4 years

                        What the hell? :))) Come on, tell us in all the chilling details about the successes of Soviet aviation on moe for these 4 years
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        at that time, while these American aircraft carriers did not risk all these 4 years to approach the Japanese coast

                        Count how many Japanese planes were destroyed by the Americans who did not want to approach somewhere, and name the number. Let's compare it with the losses of the Germans on the eastern front.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        This supposedly "only landing operation" had to be urgently done impromptu

                        Well, tryndet not bags tossing and turning. And - most importantly - the more or less competent analysis of events on Shumsha makes it easy to understand that the issue was not at all an impromptu, but the general level of training of the Navy and the USSR Air Force.
                      2. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 6 December 2015 01: 12 New
                        0
                        You have delirium, chronic ... Italian in the first place, you will ask their name from your sister. An article about it was here.
                        Aviation drowns the Navy. There are not enough hands for just poachers.

                        Whatever one may say, yours will not become dry ... The USSR landed in Korean ports under conditions of counteraction (including your American mine). laughing

                        The sea is not a strait, you have no understanding, and categorically. hi Because I categorically want others to not understand this.

                        Under the dominance of Soviet aviation in the air, the Japanese Navy could not offer any opposition. American aviation with aircraft carriers too. Land airfields if they had time to turn around there would be quickly occupied. In any case, they would lose Hokkaido, further to the south it would be more difficult but still real. Landing operations on him were prevented only by American movements in the direction of the Kuril Islands - it was necessary to throw the allocated forces there.
                        The experience of fighting at the USSR Air Force was both over land and over the sea. The USSR Air Force defeated the Germans over Kuban and not the US Air Force. Only after that began the raids on the Reich, put up with it.
                        Is bearing so difficult to navigate over the sea so difficult? lol

                        You didn’t forget to count army planes? Or didn’t?
                        What were the rest of the Pacific Fleet aircraft doing?

                        The landing operation in Hokkaido was canceled just before it began, not because the American bogeyman who opposed Yokohama's unloading from the south was against it, but because they went to the Kuril Islands to do the same there and strengthen or replace the Japanese garrisons with their own.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        What the hell? :))) Come on, tell us in all the chilling details about the successes of Soviet aviation on moe for these 4 years

                        You have to go to Nuremberg for denying WW2 results.
                        Trollik, what is IL-4, especially in the version of the torpedo, you know?

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Count how many Japanese planes were destroyed by the Americans who did not want to approach somewhere, and name the number. Let's compare it with the losses of the Germans on the eastern front.

                        Same ... how old are you? Maybe you’ll fall under an amnesty.
                        Or is it Chelyabinsk somewhere in Minnesota?

                        Well, here you are and tryndi like a Trotsky, with only one Shumshu (in which the Japanese really won?), But about Seishin and so forth again, somehow "forgot".
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2015 14: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Italian by priority, you will ask their sister’s name.

                        That is, you as always do not know. And why am I not surprised? :)
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Aviation drowns the Navy. There are not enough hands for just poachers.

                        That is, you don’t know that the Japanese caught our fish under the guise of their warships either.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        The USSR, in the face of opposition (including your American mine), landed in Korean ports. laughing

                        That’s why I love you, Scraptor, because of the ability to carry frank nonsense with the appearance of a know-it-all.
                        Landing in Yuki - 922 people landed, zero resistance, the Japanese left the port before the reconnaissance group disembarked.
                        The landing force in Rasin - 880 people landed, no one interfered with the landing, "Later on, the enemy resisted by force until the infantry platoon, but was broken, and at 10:00 our landing fully seized the port of Rasin." Translated into Russian, this means that some individual Japanese soldiers tried to resist.
                        Landing in Seishin - 181 people on 8 torpedo boats. There was no resistance to the landing; subsequently, our paratroopers slightly exchanged fire with the retreating Japanese groups. But Admiral Yumashev decided to strengthen our units - first he sent a battalion of marines on a minesweeper and one guard (710 people)
                        This landing (a miracle of miracles!) Was supported by the action of our aircraft. Already as many TWO MBR-2s bombed the site of the alleged Japanese battery. Since there was heavy cloud cover, no bombing results were observed.
                        In the already captured port, Yumashev sent another five thousand paratroopers in three detachments, and here the Pacific Fleet showed itself in all its glory - at last a grandiose sea battle took place, eclipsing Midway and Leyte. SKR "Vyuga" and a large hunter BO-307 opened fire on an unidentified target detected by the radar of the EK-1 patrol boat. The ships demonstrated good accuracy - the target was hit. And then it was identified - it turned out to be our BO-306. The fire was immediately "crushed", but the losses amounted to 6 people killed and 10 wounded.
                        Then our fleet had fun with an attack on an "unidentified submarine" (a post-war analysis of documents clearly showed that there could be no American or Japanese submarines in that area) and shooting at unidentified aircraft. Not a single unidentified target tried to attack Soviet ships (which is not surprising for phantoms generated by the game of imagination)
                        But still, the fleet managed to do something useful - during the landing of the second wave of landing, Japanese artillery for the first and last time for all Korean landings attempted to snap back and was suppressed by artillery fire from ships.
                        The garrison capitulated in Genzan - the battle did not happen.
                        On the whole and in general there was no organized resistance of the ground forces either in Racine or in Seishin, but there were sporadic battles with the retreating Japanese. The landing of our troops was not covered either by airplanes or by any large naval forces. The Navy and the Japanese Air Force did not interfere with the Soviet troops, but despite this we still suffered casualties at sea. And you need to be gifted to the full in order to equal Korean tactical assault forces and landing in Hokkaido in the face of thousands of US carrier-based aircraft
                      4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2015 14: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        The sea is not a strait, you have no understanding, and categorically

                        The Laperouse spill, so you know, is wider than the English Channel (the one in the narrowest place has only 32 km). And the US Navy was orders of magnitude more powerful than the British fleet in 1941. And the Soviet Pacific fleet was orders of magnitude weaker than the German fleet in 1941. At the same time, the Germans considered landing in England impossible. And for Scraptor, the landing on Hokkado is elementary. Question - what to talk about with Scraptor? No answer needed - a rhetorical question laughing
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        The experience of fighting at the USSR Air Force was both over land and over the sea. The USSR Air Force defeated the Germans over Kuban and not the US Air Force.

                        Well, yes, in the Kuban there are so many seas that almost the ocean! laughing
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Only after that began the raids on the Reich, put up with it.

                        I have long come to terms with the fact that you don’t know anything at all. The Americans in 1943 (moreover, in the summer) just the same fashion took to arrange daytime bombing of Germany (fortresses in close formation). Without diminishing the feat of our Air Force over the Kuban, I note that they were opposed by 550-600 German aircraft (German estimate) or about a thousand (Soviet estimate), the truth is most likely somewhere in between. Well, air defense of the Reich at that time carried out about 1500 fighters. Try to draw a conclusion from this :)))
                        As of January 1, 1943, out of 3955 German combat aircraft, as many as 1530 aircraft were on the eastern front, i.e. less than 40%. Another 1445 was in the west, the rest in the Mediterranean and the Balkans. So you, Scraptor, should understand that the USSR Air Force with great difficulty and heavy losses fought with about half (really - less) of the German air fleet. And the defeat of the Germans over Kuban did not play any role in the air war between the British and Americans with the Germans.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Is bearing so difficult to navigate over the sea so difficult?

                        What does the bearing have to do with it? What was said to you? Battle radii see. You cannot distinguish a bearing from a radius?
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        You didn’t forget to count army planes? Or didn’t?

                        Army aircraft, a scraper, did not participate in the South Sakhalin operation (surprise-surprise!). That's annoyance, right? laughing
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        You have to go to Nuremberg for denying WW2 results.

                        That is, you did not find the success of Soviet aviation in the struggle at sea. None. Which, in general, is true - they were not there. Yes, a certain number of watercraft was sunk by our aviation, but on the whole its actions should be characterized as ugly ineffective. Read, for example, about the evacuation of Germans from the Crimea.
                      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2015 14: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        trollik, what is the IL-4, especially in the version of the torpedo, you know?

                        Well, tell us about the Il-4 naval victories "in 4 years of the naval war" laughing You have already been asked for good. And you again puffed out your cheeks and trying to get off smart.
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Well, here you are and tryndi like a Trotsky, with only one Shumshu (in which the Japanese really won?), But about Seishin and so forth again, somehow "forgot".

                        Yes, I didn’t forget, but you didn’t know, I had to write an educational program for you.
                      6. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 7 December 2015 05: 45 New
                        0
                        Stop studying the history of World War II and the Soviet-Japanese War on YouTube videos and Wikipedia articles about USN Carrier Flight Operations,

                        In the summer of 1943 raids on the Reich began, after the Soviet Air Force in the Kuban halved the Luftwaffe, and the most experienced German aces were killed or captured.

                        That is, the successes of the Soviet Air Force and Navy aviation you need to look for once you don’t know anything about them. Probably because even Wikipedia in English does not write anything about it.

                        The Japanese caught fish under the guise of warships until 1934
                        Write also that the Soviet troops in Manchuria chased hamsters. In addition to the victory in Seishin, there was also the landing in Wonsan and the landing and fighting in the Kuril Islands. If this was enough, then it would be enough from the newly cleaned Sakhalin (which the troops also somehow got into) under the cover of their aviation and to climb over your La Perouse ditch, which you are so "afraid" of. And then Sangarsky and everything else. Whatever the Americans were against or not.
                        In fact, you’re afraid and take everyone away from the other - the fact that the tanks are in your beloved Amerika (where it is warm and good, where they feed, where lard, pies and apples, a sandbox with children and grandchildren, as well as chewing gum, grated jeans with a deposit in the bank ) will go not through Europe and then along the bottom through the Central Atlantic ridge, but on high-speed barges or on their own on ice through a strait only 2 * 43 = 86 km wide.
                        And no one of your favorite Nimitz supercarriers, like the Superlinkor Yamato before, will be able to prevent this. And also FOR THIS Russia is not needed. laughing
                      7. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 7 December 2015 07: 01 New
                        0
                        Not for "Andrei from Minnesota", until he made his history those who did not know by his authority.

                        In Seishin, there was no "shooting" but very heavy fighting. In Wonsan, the Japanese garrison preferred, though not immediately, to surrender. Surrender, not fight, because the marines in the Far East were already almost one continuous "commando", which had been given the army. There, as in the parachute landing, no envoys were sent to Detachment 731, or Derevyanko was authorized.

                        The USAAF raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg (the very first raid) was after the Kuban, even after Kursk, when the Luftwaffe was already on crutches, and then the Americans who had more bombers than the Germans fighters, wiped out, the British bombed at night.

                        For fighters for air supremacy, it makes no difference to fight over land or over the sea. This should have been understood even by an American schoolboy who did not study in a Soviet school ... Pokryshkin shot down the enemy there over the sea, despite strange bans.

                        You can read about this about everything even on Wikipedia in Russian. About the air battle over the Kuban in English, you will not find anything there. Only in Vietnamese yet. Who is Admiral Ushakov (Nelson's contemporary) of the English-speaking, too, almost no one knows.
                        About "the battle at the pyramids" even in Russian you will find only about 1798, but by no means about 1973.
                        And here it is, with its management "cost / efficiency", dressed up as a Soviet naval strategist here!
                      8. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 December 2015 21: 22 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Not for "Andrew from Minnesota"

                        Do you seriously believe that you could convince someone with this set of slogans without the slightest argument? laughing
                      9. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 8 December 2015 21: 27 New
                        0
                        Your professionZionreal sub-American demagoguery? Do they lie ...
                        Where did you not see the arguments there?
  • parusnik
    parusnik 4 December 2015 08: 56 New
    +4
    Soviet troops stood on South Sakhalin and the Kuril archipelago, which were not even considered a colony of Japan, but part of the country itself... And the fact that until 1905 it was part of another country .. is it nothing ..?
    1. Kibalchish
      4 December 2015 10: 36 New
      -2
      Like Crimea, before 2014 it was considered a part of Ukraine and legally recognized by all, including us.

      P.S. The Kuril Islands until the 1905 year were part of Japan.
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 4 December 2015 15: 03 New
        +1
        And before (as we are taught) 1855 - part of Russia. And hokkaido until 1879 for some reason was not Japanese.
        1. Kibalchish
          5 December 2015 00: 27 New
          0
          About Hokkaido, there is no need to deceive.
          1. Scraptor
            Scraptor 5 December 2015 00: 44 New
            0
            Look at wikipedia ...
            1. Kibalchish
              5 December 2015 03: 18 New
              0
              The Principality of Matsumae (松 前 藩 Matsumae Khan?) Is the first ethnically Japanese state entity on the island of Hokkaido. The largest feudal principality (khan) in Japan of the Edo period (1604 — 1869).

              I’m silent about the Japanese settlements on Sakhalin.
              1. Scraptor
                Scraptor 5 December 2015 03: 22 New
                0
                Matsumae is one tower and up to 2000 Japanese around it at the southernmost tip of Hokkaido. But this peninsula (a scythe with a castle) was on Japanese maps! And everything else was inhabited by the Ainu who were not yet cut by these "Shintoists".

                Better be silent, Bad. bully
                1. Kibalchish
                  5 December 2015 11: 32 New
                  0
                  With the same success, you can point to any region of Russia at the same time and declare that there is one Cossack post and around the original void on 500 km.
                  1. Scraptor
                    Scraptor 5 December 2015 21: 48 New
                    0
                    It is possible to point out even more so on Japanese maps except for this stub from hokkaido nothing else meant.
  • Army soldier2
    Army soldier2 4 December 2015 10: 19 New
    +4
    This topic is close to me - my father fought there as part of the 113 separate rifle brigade.
    After the defeat of Japan, the United States behaved, to put it mildly, ugly. Probably one of the reasons for this is Truman and the possession of nuclear weapons. And the USSR limited itself to performing the minimum task — historical lands were returned, China and North Korea entered our orbit. The country was weakened by war, and the Pacific Fleet could not project power to all of the Japanese islands.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 4 December 2015 15: 12 New
      +2
      This was not required, with the equipment of advanced coastal bases it would be provided by aviation.
      NF is not the only type of WMD, besides it happened that they were crushed in Europe and Alaska.

      It was just that the United States entered Japan on August 28th, which separately surrendered to them on Aug. 16, and began to make body movements in the Kuril region, which was why they had to deal with them, and not after Sakhalin, land troops immediately in Hokkaido, leaving them in the rear.
      The signing of Japan's surrender aboard an American battleship was fiction, and a staged show for American "significance." In fact, as with Germany (which also opened the Remagen bridge and began to surrender territory in the west), the USSR did everything in Manchuria, depriving the Japanese of their weapons of mass destruction "along the way".

      Just to fight in Japan with the Americans — that would not be understood by the Soviet people. Take Alaska back - no matter where it goes. laughing
  • flotofil
    flotofil 4 December 2015 14: 46 New
    0
    The Tokyo process is described in the book:
  • kos2cool4u
    kos2cool4u 4 December 2015 16: 41 New
    0
    It's funny ... And if now "squeeze" Hokkaido :))))