Military Review

Chinese J-20: Eighth Flying Prototype

121
The eighth flight model of the 5 generation fighter J-20 (side 2017) 23 November first took to the air from the airfield of the Chinese company "Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group" (CAIG), the blog bmpd with link fyjs.cn.




According to the blogger, "the first flight prototype of the J-20 fighter (tail number" 2001 ") developed and built by CAIG made the first flight to Chengdu 11 January 2011, and the second prototype (tail number" 2002 ") - in May 2012; They were followed by prototypes with 2011 onboard numbers (first flight in March 2014 of the year), 2012 (July 2014 of the year), 2013 (November 2014 of the year), 2015 (December of 2014 of the year) and 2016 (September 2015 of the Year) ”.

Chinese J-20: Eighth Flying Prototype



Photos used:
www.fyjs.cn, www.fyjs.cn and weibo.com
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  1. 11 black
    11 black 3 December 2015 17: 09
    27
    You look at the first photo - and it feels like this Ф22 gives birth from Ф35 ... mdaa
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 December 2015 17: 10
      +8
      yes scary machine)

      from the word is not beautiful. on the other hand, on the radar as there was a point with a vector, it will be so

    2. War and Peace
      War and Peace 3 December 2015 17: 23
      -4
      this healthy exterminator can be shoved there halfway through, this agility exterminator will have problems with agility ...
      1. yanus
        yanus 3 December 2015 17: 28
        +3
        Now "clean" fighters are of little interest. And as a drummer he is quite, here is just "fat belly" as a plus. The same F35 doesn't fit much.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 3 December 2015 19: 01
          +1
          Quote: yanus
          And as a drummer he is quite, here is just "fat belly" in a plus.

          Engines are in the case nearby. So there’s really nothing you can stuff into the case. There is no more space under the ammunition than in the F-22.
        2. Good me
          Good me 3 December 2015 19: 16
          0
          Quote: yanus
          Now "clean" fighters are of little interest. And as a drummer he is quite, here is just "fat belly" as a plus. The same F35 doesn't fit much.


          Well, in the face of F35, the Americans, apparently unsuccessfully, wanted to get a receiver of a quite good and relatively inexpensive F16 ...
      2. kamski
        kamski 3 December 2015 19: 06
        13 th
        Today, maneuverability does not solve anything, it was ours that came up with nonsense.
        1. stealth, stealth
        2 weapons system
        3. Ability to detect and not be detected during and after an attack
        4. Well and speed but not the most important thing
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 3 December 2015 19: 19
          +4
          Quote: kamski
          Today, maneuverability does not solve anything, it was ours that came up with nonsense.

          Why did you decide that over-maneuverability is nonsense? Americans rely on stealth, but this does not mean that their stealths do not see our radars. And at the speeds that are now, approaching a close range is very likely. missiles are much lighter when your fighter is super maneuverable.
          1. Abrekkos
            Abrekkos 3 December 2015 19: 46
            +1
            Well, of course, it’s not that she didn’t decide anything, but only she is no longer in the lead.

            The principle let go and forget has already been transformed into the principle of "let it go and let it go" and is transformed into "dump it and let it go". To stealth against conventional aircraft, it means dumped unnoticed and unpunished.

            So no one is fighting in the oncoming courses. And if you have to, then there is always the option of just flying the enemy at full speed by launching a rocket. Super-maneuverability for an aircraft is not particularly needed if there is hypermineurability in its missiles. Speed ​​is more important.

            To get away from the rocket with the help of maneuver is already from the category of great luck. It’s possible, but you can’t bet on it. And it is forbidden to combatant pilots to practice these tricks.
            The missiles are already able to do a lot of things that not a single aircraft could even dream of.

            Actually, because of this, the Americans have long been unable to rest on over-maneuverability. All this has long been calculated and tested. By the way, the maneuverability of targets is many times higher than that of real aircraft.
            1. frollog
              frollog 3 December 2015 20: 54
              0
              We and our "partners" have different strategies for using aircraft. Ours assume action under cover of electronic warfare from the ground (ie, defensive tactics), when stealth does not play a decisive role. enemy radars will be jammed by much more powerful ground stations. Stealth is more needed when there is no cover from the ground (attacking tactics), which actually reflects the current state of affairs in the world. And when 2 planes meet "in a vacuum", of course, the less noticeable will have an advantage, all other things being equal.
              1. Odysseus
                Odysseus 3 December 2015 21: 18
                +2
                Quote: frollog
                Ours suppose action under cover from the ground of electronic warfare (i.e. defense tactics),

                Our tactics have always been based on guiding fighters from ground-based radars, what does EW have to do with it? Then then EMP can be remembered.
                And, by the way, the electronic warfare thing, of course, is useful, but this is not at all a panacea for stealth aircraft.
              2. Falcon
                Falcon 4 December 2015 09: 26
                0
                Quote: frollog
                Ours suppose action under cover from the ground of electronic warfare (i.e. defense tactics),


                Only ground objects can be covered from the ground. airplanes need their own electronic warfare.
                By type F-18 growler



                Quote: frollog
                when stealth is not critical, because enemy radars will be drowned out by much more powerful ground stations.


                Nobody cancels missile guidance on a source of interference wink

                The best thing is just stealth, and until it is seen, i.e. far away. Then all REBs is a lottery.
            2. Odysseus
              Odysseus 3 December 2015 21: 14
              +1
              Quote: Abrekkos
              The “let it go and forget it” principle has already been transformed into the “let it go and let it go” principle and is transformed into the “let it go and let it go”.

              Very elegantly said.
              1. Abrekkos
                Abrekkos 3 December 2015 21: 29
                +2
                Thank you, but I didn’t come up with this.
                This is more than 20 years as an established professional jargon. Widely known in narrow circles, so to speak.
            3. Good me
              Good me 3 December 2015 23: 26
              0
              Quote: Abrekkos
              To get away from the rocket with the help of maneuver is already from the category of great luck. It’s possible, but you can’t bet on it.

              Right ! It is necessary to bet that, in a time interval unattainable for the enemy, take the most optimal position for using weapons yes . Achieved by the skill of the pilot, and the capabilities of the machine ...
            4. Falcon
              Falcon 4 December 2015 09: 22
              0
              Quote: Abrekkos
              The principle let go and forget has already been transformed into the principle of "let it go and let it go" and is transformed into "dump it and let it go". To stealth against conventional aircraft, it means dumped unnoticed and unpunished.


              Not so easy. If you aim aim-120 at a great range and topple it, the result will be completely zero. It’s enough to shift the course a bit and the seek-120 seeker will not find anything if he follows only the ANN. To do this, you need to shine your radar further in order to conduct radio-correction of the rocket. And then the GOS captured it, and then again, it needs to be corrected.

              At relatively short distances - of course you can let go and dump.

              Quote: Abrekkos
              To get away from the rocket with the help of maneuver is already from the category of great luck. It’s possible, but you can’t bet on it.


              Until the gsn has captured it is possible. If no one conducts the radio correction will go into "milk"
          2. dauria
            dauria 3 December 2015 20: 27
            -1
            It’s much easier to get away from a rocket when your fighter is super maneuverable.


            Hmm, it's easier to dodge a bullet than a modern melee missile. Another thing is not to allow you to take a position for the launch and start up first yourself. But even this is almost unrealistic - even the old P-73 changes its trajectory by 90 degrees after leaving. And with proportional guidance (to the lead-in point) and its own overload of 40 g, no aircraft is able to "maneuver". So everything is simple - whoever is quicker wins. It is here that information content and automation plays a major role.
        2. mav1971
          mav1971 3 December 2015 19: 52
          0
          Quote: kamski
          Today, maneuverability does not solve anything, it was ours that came up with nonsense.
          1. stealth, stealth
          2 weapons system
          3. Ability to detect and not be detected during and after an attack
          4. Well and speed but not the most important thing


          Again, I will repeat about the 50 and 60 years. When maneuverability was pushed into the background.

          What happened next?
          And then for some reason everyone began to do very quickly not just maneuverability, but also to look for ways to super maneuverability.
          The question is - why?
          If you think and read the history of aviation, you yourself can find the answer to this question.
    3. Secta haki
      Secta haki 3 December 2015 17: 28
      -4
      14 Chinese are put on the plus article. wassat
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 3 December 2015 17: 54
        +5
        what kind of people are "offensive" here ... bully
    4. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 3 December 2015 17: 30
      +4
      The label, as always with the Chinese, is crookedly pasted.
      1. Secta haki
        Secta haki 3 December 2015 17: 56
        0
        +100500 and the numbers on the nose are Arabic ...
      2. Jack-b
        Jack-b 3 December 2015 18: 10
        0
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        The label, as always with the Chinese, is crookedly pasted.

        This is not a label, but a watermark in the photo. Apparently the label of those who took the photo, such as copyright protection.
    5. NEXUS
      NEXUS 3 December 2015 19: 04
      15
      Quote: 11 black
      You look at the first photo - and it feels like this Ф22 gives birth from Ф35 ... mdaa

      And for me it is worthy of respect. The Chinese have made a huge leap from essentially agrarian state to high-tech. It is clear that it is not without our help in some matters, but their potential and efficiency are surprising.
      As for the aircraft itself, for some it is "ugly", but for someone it is "handsome" (for example, 1,5 billion Chinese). The technical characteristics are not voiced, and what to talk about if this is only an experimental product. and internally it will change a hundred times more and ultimately, the Chinese will bring it to mind, thereby adding a headache to mattresses.
      And you can laugh and be malicious as much as you like. But we must well understand that we would have such a desire, zeal, efficiency and obstinacy to achieve our goals, PAK FA would have flown in a series for a long time and pleased us.
    6. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 3 December 2015 20: 34
      +2
      Quote: 11 black
      You look at the first photo - and

      I recall a joke of twenty years ago, when a new Russian asks the gatekeeper of the English parliament about how much money you need to give to become a peer in England. To which the gatekeeper replied that he needed to graduate from Cambridge University, but not to you, but to your great-grandfather. So in the case of this johnka, depicted in the photo. It is certainly possible to steal forms, but in-depth technologies are developed on the basis of fundamental research in all areas of science accumulated over the centuries. And this is the main problem of the Chinese aviation industry.
    7. chikod
      chikod 3 December 2015 22: 12
      +1
      I do not recall a more suitable description about this aircraft.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 3 December 2015 23: 08
        +1
        I found such a picture.

        I don’t understand, is it humor or are they really thinking of hiding rockets in boxes?
        1. mvg
          mvg 4 December 2015 00: 23
          0
          graphics editor. and, if he also "waved" his wings, then animation ...
          narrow-eyed anime and graphics have always worked well. you can remember hentai .. :-)
        2. Falcon
          Falcon 4 December 2015 11: 10
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr

          I don’t understand, is it humor or are they really thinking of hiding rockets in boxes?


          It's hard to say of course.
          On the one hand, this can affect aerodynamics.

          On the other hand, this should reduce the EPR of an aircraft with missile suspensions
          The Americans follow the same principle with their F-18 / 15



  2. Teberii
    Teberii 3 December 2015 17: 09
    +3
    Nobody forbade to try to catch up and overtake the rest.
  3. tlauicol
    tlauicol 3 December 2015 17: 09
    +2
    overtook us in one fell swoop
  4. Dezinto
    Dezinto 3 December 2015 17: 11
    +5
    It was as if our PAK-FA had fucked F-22 ... and they had j-20 born.

    At first glance, this is some kind of kapets, and he suffers and asks to kill him.



    But let's see how it will fly. Something like able:



    The stabilizer has brought: smile



    AND WHAT'S THAT ?

    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 December 2015 17: 20
      0
      there was a lot of alcohol in the body f22

      handicapped child

      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 3 December 2015 18: 22
        0
        But can alcohol, tobacco, and drugs be integrated into the DNA structure? wassat
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 17: 21
      +7
      TTX good:
      Crew: 1 people
      Length: 20,3 m
      Wingspan: 12,88 m
      Height: 4,45 m
      Wing area: 73 m²
      Weight:
      empty: 17000 kg
      maximum take-off weight: 36300 kg
      Weight Fuel: 11100 kg
      Engine: * 2 × turbofan thrust 180 kN on afterburner
      Distance: 5500 km
      Combat radius: 2000 km
      Service ceiling: 20000 m
      1. cniza
        cniza 3 December 2015 17: 24
        +4
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        TTX good:
        Crew: 1 people
        Length: 20,3 m
        Wingspan: 12,88 m
        Height: 4,45 m
        Wing area: 73 m²
        Weight:
        empty: 17000 kg
        maximum take-off weight: 36300 kg
        Weight Fuel: 11100 kg
        Engine: * 2 × turbofan thrust 180 kN on afterburner
        Distance: 5500 km
        Combat radius: 2000 km
        Service ceiling: 20000 m



        Impressive, thanks for the info.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 3 December 2015 18: 25
          -2
          Quote: cniza
          Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
          TTX good:
          Crew: 1 people
          Length: 20,3 m
          Wingspan: 12,88 m
          Height: 4,45 m
          Wing area: 73 m²
          Weight:
          empty: 17000 kg
          maximum take-off weight: 36300 kg
          Weight Fuel: 11100 kg
          Engine: * 2 × turbofan thrust 180 kN on afterburner
          Distance: 5500 km
          Combat radius: 2000 km
          Service ceiling: 20000 m



          Impressive, thanks for the info.

          In my opinion, a box with nails, and according to the performance characteristics of landing on water, takes off from a helicopter deck, straight 6th fighterlaughing laughing
          1. Abrekkos
            Abrekkos 3 December 2015 20: 01
            0
            What really drives you into melancholy is the year of the start of operation in this comparative picture with our PAK-FA - 2013.
            Probably did it in 2011.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 3 December 2015 17: 41
        +9
        They also write on the fences. Where does China get such engines? For this "pepelatsa"? They will not "finish" for the copied 27th drying, and then suddenly - a stream of cognac! They dug it out.
        Those who closely follow the development of Chinese technology, especially of a high level, should get used to "supersonic" submarines and anti-tank missiles with a range of 20 km using the "fire and forget" system. People have a rich imagination, and deception of a potential rival is not a deception, but a military cunning.
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus 3 December 2015 20: 15
          0
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Where does China get such engines? For this "pepelatsa"?

          There are no pepelats for this. Judging by how briskly the program is developing, serial production of the WS-10A will begin, but somewhere after 2020 we can expect a "second stage engine". LTH of the first series will not shine, but apparently the Chinese decided to go on our way from the MiG-23.
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          They will not "finish" for the copied 27th drying,

          For copied drying i.e. They didn’t saw J-11A, they are still buying from us, but for their modernized dryers, J-11B, D has already been finished.
      4. Odysseus
        Odysseus 3 December 2015 20: 17
        +1
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        TTX good:

        These are virtual performance characteristics.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 3 December 2015 20: 19
          +2
          Quote: Odyssey
          These are virtual performance characteristics.

          Sorry, these are not even virtual TTXs, but fantasies inspired by eating chips and spilled coffee on the keyboard. hi
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 3 December 2015 17: 30
      10
      Quote: DEZINTO
      It was as if our PAK-FA had fucked F-22 ... and they had j-20 born.

      Same-sex marriages are prohibited by law in our country laughing
      But seriously, they copy YES, YES while the product falls short, but at the same time the Chinese are "plowing" and there is no doubt that in the near future, China will not have a copy, but its own brainchild, and accordingly, the Chinese school will begin its history fighter aircraft.
      1. Obstructia
        Obstructia 3 December 2015 17: 42
        -3
        And in the process, F-35 also clearly participated))
        1. Sega66
          Sega66 3 December 2015 20: 23
          +2
          Most likely the MiG-1.44 and our designers helped ...
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 3 December 2015 18: 34
        +2
        When copying, it is important to understand WHAT you copy and HOW it works. Mindless high-tech copying is a dead end.
        Py.Sy. And the Chinese have a little keel, just like the T-50. Do they really have engines with UVT?
        And by the way, I once read that only Americans and Chinese possess the technology of making an uninterlaced flashlight. And here - evona! binding is available!
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 3 December 2015 19: 28
          0
          Quote: Black Colonel
          By the way, I once read that only Americans and Chinese have the technology of making an unbinding lamp.

          The Americans have a polycarbonate lamp, we have glass. Each has its own pros and cons, both in the material of the lantern and in its design. If our people thought that tearless is better, then on the T-50 (as well as on our other) would be tearless.
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 3 December 2015 19: 48
          +1
          Quote: Black Colonel
          When copying, it is important to understand WHAT you copy and HOW it works. Mindless high-tech copying is a dead end.

          I fully support this opinion.
          For example, according to J-20:
          At our T-50, over-maneuverability is achieved due to engines with a variable thrust vector, which is clearly facilitated by engines spaced from the body.
          The F-22 engines are close by, so there is no sense in working with them in disagreement (they work synchronously: either both up, or both down). But he has a vertical tail next to the engine and when the exhaust jet is fed upward, along the vertical tail, the F-22 maintains controllability even at very low speeds. Not like ours, but still there.
          Now look at the Chinese:
          engines nearby (like the F-22) keels are widely spaced (like the T-50).
          As a result: no matter what engines are installed on it, it will not be controlled at low speeds (for engines with a variable thrust vector, they are standing close to each other, so there will be no sense in the management). At the same time, you don’t give anything along the vertical tail - you are far from the exhaust nozzle.

          PGO and stealth are difficult concepts. Including therefore on our Su-35 it is absent.
          Also, the ventral keels are an extra flare on the enemy’s locator. And they stuck them on STELS
          1. cherkas.oe
            cherkas.oe 3 December 2015 20: 59
            0
            Quote: Bad_gr
            Now look at the Chinese:
            engines nearby (like the F-22) keels are widely spaced (like the T-50).
            As a result: no matter what engines are installed on it, it will not be controlled at low speeds (for engines with a variable thrust vector, they are standing close to each other, so there will be no sense in the management). At the same time, you don’t give anything along the vertical tail - you are far from the exhaust nozzle.

            Well, why the heck do you chew the Chinese their shoals, they would have been caring for these problems for another hundred years, and you would have been clever enough about the Chinas in the ladies, damn it. laughing
            1. Scraptor
              Scraptor 4 December 2015 00: 01
              0
              Yes, not only to the Chinese, and that's not all ... lol
    4. opus
      opus 3 December 2015 17: 41
      +5
      Quote: DEZINTO
      AND WHAT'S THAT ?


      Release moment of the brake parachute (s)


      see from 4:34

      1. Dezinto
        Dezinto 3 December 2015 17: 56
        +2
        Parachute release moment


        aaaaaaaa! I didn’t think ...

        Thank you! hi
    5. avdkrd
      avdkrd 3 December 2015 17: 59
      +3
      Quote: DEZINTO
      AND WHAT'S THAT ?


      Like that, gravitsapa !!!!
    6. propolsky
      propolsky 3 December 2015 18: 17
      -1
      The accumulator of human weaknesses, probably ...
    7. WUA 518
      WUA 518 3 December 2015 19: 08
      +2
      The stabilizer has reduced. This is an all-turning vertical plumage. The same on the T-50.
      Quote: DEZINTO
      AND WHAT'S THAT ?

      A brake parachute, this arrangement is sometimes called a keyboard.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 3 December 2015 19: 25
        +1
        Quote: WUA 518
        A brake parachute, this arrangement is sometimes called a keyboard.

        Sasha, good to see you in good health, friend. drinks
        Looking at the new fighters of the foe, and even at our PAK FA, I came to the conclusion that the plumage of the fighters in their evolution goes to the fact that both the rear and wings and the front more and more "merge" into something single. Perhaps the 6th generation fighters will be are more like "flying saucers" in this.
        Sincerely. hi
    8. Bayonet
      Bayonet 3 December 2015 19: 18
      +1
      Quote: DEZINTO
      AND WHAT'S THAT ?

      And THIS, apparently, is preparing to throw a brake parachute! hi
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 4 December 2015 06: 28
        +2
        Same thing on the Su-34. (cry)
  5. Airborne Major
    Airborne Major 3 December 2015 17: 11
    +4
    Nobody really knows what kind of "beast" it really is. Maybe this is a Chinese breakthrough, or maybe just an air fake! The Chinese, however!
    1. Eulogius
      Eulogius 3 December 2015 17: 37
      +2
      Again, copied something from someone ...
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 3 December 2015 17: 12
    13
    Quickly ...
    We will hear soon: "400th flight prototype
    went on a combat mission ... " laughing
  7. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 17: 12
    +1
    The Chinese are looking at us the idea of ​​vertical turning rudders borrowed. In general, the Chinese should not be occupied with pragmatism, they took the F-35 glider, added the 2nd engine, PGO, and all-turning vertical rudders and the plane became better than the F-35. With the filling, everything is probably not so rosy, but the Chinese spies are working on it.
    The cockpit lantern and stealth cover in the last photo are visually very similar to the F-22.
  8. Monos
    Monos 3 December 2015 17: 13
    +6
    But interestingly: do their fighters fly the same way my Chinese flashlight works?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 3 December 2015 17: 16
      10
      Quote: Monos
      my chinese lantern?

      My Chinese flashlight works very well. wink
      1. Monos
        Monos 3 December 2015 17: 32
        +7
        sad I envy. And my "fighter" does not fly.
    2. dchegrinec
      dchegrinec 3 December 2015 17: 30
      +1
      if the battery is acidic, pour distilled water into it and charge and it will be better than new.
  9. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 3 December 2015 17: 14
    +3
    Designs, of course, the Chinese are molded-well done. It is not known yet the strength of these structures under repeated overloads, the fact that the achievement is already flying. But you can’t blind a good modern engine! Here they both had problems and will be. Now one of our SU-35s will be sawn into spare parts and will try to sculpt. Let's see what happens. Maybe they will try to put the whole ..
  10. Monos
    Monos 3 December 2015 17: 17
    +4
    What kind of fashion did this go to build flying chisels?
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 3 December 2015 17: 23
      +4
      Quote: Monos
      What kind of fashion did this go to build flying chisels?

      Better flying, as you say, "chisels" than flying "plasticine". Life (war) will show which birds are better.
    2. Kent0001
      Kent0001 3 December 2015 17: 25
      +1
      This is now in trend. Stealth pancake ...
    3. Awaz
      Awaz 3 December 2015 17: 41
      0
      they are trying to hide from the C 400, but all this is useless.
  11. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 3 December 2015 17: 24
    +1
    Quote: Monos
    But interestingly: do their fighters fly the same way my Chinese flashlight works?

    Chinese lanterns with acid batteries work fine if you add distilled water to these batteries and charge them.
  12. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 3 December 2015 17: 25
    0
    Not a big spacing of engines immediately rushes into the design, hence the reduction in capabilities in terms of controllability, if, moreover, it has controlled nozzles, and if not, then this is just a new junk.
  13. gas113
    gas113 3 December 2015 17: 25
    +3
    About T50 something is inaudible nothing. Strange lull.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 3 December 2015 19: 26
      -1
      Quote: gas113
      About T50 something is inaudible nothing. Strange lull.

      And with the new engines they slowed down. The first flight of the PAK FA fighter with new engines was postponed until 2018. ... what
  14. mvg
    mvg 3 December 2015 17: 32
    +6
    and the plane is already better than the F-35

    Where do the "drovishki" come from, that it is better? Assumption?
    But it’s interesting: their fighters fly just like my Chinese flashlight works

    The same question ... Does a Chinese flashlight shine badly? Personally, I did not find the difference .. I bought it on ebay made in Germany for almost 3600, and a twin Chinese - for <600 rubles. I have been using the Chinese .. The battery has been holding for almost six months .. I go to fetch water at night - as if it shines no worse ..
    Do you sometimes look into a computer (inside)? Or on the back of TV and Video equipment .. Everything is made in china and everything works there.
    But a good modern engine is not blind!

    Work on it. Get ahead soon. Literally 2-3 years. At least the C919 civilian aircraft with Chinese engines flies already, and our MC-21 only winds around exhibitions .. in the form of a layout. And the relatives of the PS-14 are only announced.
    WS-10, WS-15, WS-20 - analogs of the AL-31F, AL-41F something is already flying, something is on the way. As soon as they reach the level of General Electric F119 and F135, they will simply wave a pen to Russia .. "Asta la Vista"
    PS: And the Chinese avionics and now already prefer to set their own, like the Jews .. AFAR also do it themselves. Soon, I think, that thread is being blinded, like AN / APG-81, and he will be happy. A 3.14ndosam sadness.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 17: 41
      -1
      Quote: mvg
      MS-21

      First flight in April 2016.
      Already ordered 184 aircraft + option on 111.
      1. mvg
        mvg 3 December 2015 18: 27
        +3
        S919 - ordered more than 600 pcs. The first flight 1.5 weeks ago. MS-21, the PS-14 engine for it, was announced a week ago. And a bunch of imported kits, starting from the salon.
        And what was ordered, and SuperJet 100, also had a bunch of orders, before it flew. And at the moment we have that only We and Mexico really use it .. awesome advertising for the plane.
        PS: Right now, the price tag for the C919 or the Brazilian counterpart will be announced. And these are direct competitors of MS-21 and orders will "fly" .. Normal practice.
        1. Lt. Air Force stock
          Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 18: 38
          +1
          Quote: mvg
          S919 - ordered more than 600 pcs.

          Naturally, there are more orders, in China there is more population and a significantly larger fleet is required for transportation than in Russia.
          Quote: mvg
          The first flight 1.5 weeks ago.

          And that the Boeing 787 made its first flight in December 2009, the Airbus A350 made its first flight in June 2013.
          Quote: mvg
          And what was ordered, and SuperJet 100, also had a bunch of orders, before it flew. And at the moment we have that only We and Mexico really use it ..

          100 aircraft have already been produced from the ordered 421 aircraft (+ 55 option).
          Quote: mvg
          PS: Right now, the price tag for the C919 or the Brazilian counterpart will be announced. And these are direct competitors of MS-21 and orders will "fly" .. Normal practice.

          And what did you expect, the Chinese S919 also does not shine on the international market. Airbass and Boeing have divided the market for a long time and will not let anyone in.
          With the logistics of spare parts, it is not known what the Chinese have, as well as with reliability.
          1. Fox
            Fox 3 December 2015 19: 27
            +2
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            Naturally, there are more orders, in China there is more population and a significantly larger fleet is required for transportation than in Russia.

            In China, with airplanes, not-very-high-speed trains of passengers beat off a lot.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Bayonet
            Bayonet 3 December 2015 19: 36
            +2
            Quote: Lt. air force reserve
            , China has a larger population and requires a significantly larger fleet for transportation than in Russia.

            With their population, such must be built! fellow
            1. Lt. Air Force stock
              Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 20: 12
              0
              Quote: Bayonet
              With their population, such must be built!

              Alternatively, you can build passenger aircraft with a fuselage like a flying wing (B2 bomber), the main plus is that the entire fuselage creates lift, and not just wings. The cabin would resemble a theater stall.
          4. mvg
            mvg 4 December 2015 00: 38
            +1

            And what did you expect, the Chinese S919 also does not shine on the international market. Airbass and Boeing have divided the market for a long time and will not let anyone in.

            There is a very good picture for the Chinese, it turns out with a price tag for the C919. Pay attention on occasion. If a European and an American cost about 120-140 million (119-136), then the Chinese "fits into 35-45 (46 to be exact). You know, for which thread there is Argentino Express or South TransLife - a good difference .. crying
            And our MC-21 in the middle, closer to the bourgeois. It is understandable that they will do 10-20 a year, in a Boeing 700 a year ..
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 4 December 2015 06: 31
        0
        Quote: Lt. air force reserve
        Already ordered 184 aircraft + option on 111.

        It's like a shared construction - maybe you will get an apartment, or maybe they will be thrown away! smile
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 3 December 2015 17: 41
      +2
      Quote: mvg
      Where do the "drovishki" come from, that it is better? Assumption?

      At least in terms of combat radius, combat load, maneuverability and rate of climb, it is better.
      1. mvg
        mvg 3 December 2015 18: 31
        +4
        Again. Where did the firewood come from ???? China has never published a TTX J-20. What bloggers write is fakes. Everyone calculates. Based on visual data, data on the engine, approximate mass ..
        Do not make a gag ..
        PS: A pre-production prototype will be made, with engines of at least the first stage. With avionics, radar .. then there will be performance characteristics. In the meantime, this is "a finger to the sky." The F-35 is a very worthy enemy. It is done serially. At a rate of 30-40 pieces a year already. And his performance characteristics are not "childish"
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 3 December 2015 18: 43
        -2
        Have you tested it yourself? belay
  15. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 3 December 2015 17: 32
    +1
    Something specialists are silent about dviglo. After all, this problem has not yet been resolved by the hunfuz. The engine life of 1000 hours is not the level of a 5th generation machine. Who knows more, please share the info.
    Sincerely. hi
  16. sir_obs
    sir_obs 3 December 2015 17: 40
    +1
    Some freak
  17. Sarmatians nearby
    Sarmatians nearby 3 December 2015 17: 48
    +3
    Quote: mvg
    and the plane is already better than the F-35

    Where do the "drovishki" come from, that it is better? Assumption?
    But it’s interesting: their fighters fly just like my Chinese flashlight works

    The same question ... Does a Chinese flashlight shine badly? Personally, I did not find the difference .. I bought it on ebay made in Germany for almost 3600, and a twin Chinese - for <600 rubles. I have been using the Chinese .. The battery has been holding for almost six months .. I go to fetch water at night - as if it shines no worse ..
    Do you sometimes look into a computer (inside)? Or on the back of TV and Video equipment .. Everything is made in china and everything works there.
    But a good modern engine is not blind!

    Work on it. Get ahead soon. Literally 2-3 years. At least the C919 civilian aircraft with Chinese engines flies already, and our MC-21 only winds around exhibitions .. in the form of a layout. And the relatives of the PS-14 are only announced.
    WS-10, WS-15, WS-20 - analogs of the AL-31F, AL-41F something is already flying, something is on the way. As soon as they reach the level of General Electric F119 and F135, they will simply wave a pen to Russia .. "Asta la Vista"
    PS: And the Chinese avionics and now already prefer to set their own, like the Jews .. AFAR also do it themselves. Soon, I think, that thread is being blinded, like AN / APG-81, and he will be happy. A 3.14ndosam sadness.

    I categorically agree with you, China has a desire and a billionth potential, it is necessary to keep an eye on China acutely and already begin to learn from China, including breeding.
  18. newcomer
    newcomer 3 December 2015 17: 49
    +7
    as always. our engineers work and the partners reap the benefits. friends as they say once funny, the second is tragic. Does this article resemble anything? like the Yankees yak 41 did f 35, and they were so smart that they didn’t want to fly. although the yak even made 11 worlds during testing. highscores. and now look at this handsome _ spilled moment 1.44. Slightly circled under the type of stealth. It's a shame however.
    1. mvg
      mvg 3 December 2015 18: 35
      -1
      Good evening. You better go over the past forums. There and about the Yak 41 with the F-35, and about 1.44 with the J-20.
      And there will be no "offense". You will begin to understand at the level of "user" .. But you are no longer a "beginner" .. :-)
      No offense. And there are 3-4 professionals on the site. Opus, Bongo, Flanker, Vatnichek .. :-) focus on them .. (their opinion)
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 3 December 2015 18: 39
        0
        And why are they writing so "harmless" on this subject?
      2. Scraptor
        Scraptor 3 December 2015 18: 43
        0
        It’s strange for you that somehow the technician for them did not get into this list first ...
        http://topwar.ru/user/Даос/
    2. Scraptor
      Scraptor 3 December 2015 18: 39
      -2
      12 records ...
  19. GraveBezKresta
    GraveBezKresta 3 December 2015 17: 53
    -2
    China's implementation of the "soft power" strategy towards Russian territories.
    "An article by a Russian journalist, which tells how the current Russian government is gradually surrendering the Far East to China: first, everyone learns the Chinese language, then cultural expansion and mass migration of Chinese. Earlier, in 2014, the Chinese parliament approved a bill on the annexation of the northern territories." After that, if the Russian authorities fail the policy in the Far East and create conditions for the "referendum", China will return the territories it considers its own. Conclusion, if the Putin regime continues to pull resources from Siberia and the Far East and give nothing in return, China implements the strategy of "soft power" and sooner or later will annex the "northern territories".
    Russians are massively learning Chinese. How is the future state?
    In the next 2-3 years, the Unified State Exam (USE) in Chinese will be introduced in Russia. This statement was recently made in Rosobrnadzor. The department noted that the technology for passing the exam in Chinese was already tested in 2015, when students of some schools passed a single exam in the official language of the Middle Kingdom. At the same time, Rosobrnadzor admitted that the experiment was successful. Thus, the introduction of the Chinese language in the program of final exams for schoolchildren now does not interfere.
    “The Chinese language is not easy, it has its own peculiarities. There are questions about the content of the measuring materials, so it takes two or three years to prepare for the introduction of the Unified State Exam in the Chinese language, ”said the head of Rosobrnadzor Sergei Kravtsov. The experiment on passing the USE in the Chinese language was carried out from October 20 to 23, more than 3 thousand Russian schoolchildren from 8 to 11 grades from 16 regions of the Russian Federation (mainly Siberia and the Far East) took part in it. As for the exam technology, it was similar to the certification procedure in other subjects. Listening, reading, grammar, vocabulary, hieroglyphics, writing are given three hours, and speaking takes 15 minutes. "
    1. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 3 December 2015 18: 45
      0
      China will return the territory
      Finally, the territory of China was not captured. Therefore, it will not be a return, but a seizure.
  20. slaw14
    slaw14 3 December 2015 17: 57
    -2
    I just noted that our flyers are the most beautiful in the world, now even more confident. Who created this monster, from one kind of hand reaches out to cross itself.
  21. individual
    individual 3 December 2015 17: 59
    +1
    Okay, distracted.
    Humor from the network:
    Putin shows Xi Jinping a new lighter:
    - Click here - NATO is not.
    - And here is the flashlight. fellow
  22. newcomer
    newcomer 3 December 2015 18: 09
    +6
    but do not worry about engines. buy from us. or create a joint venture with subsequent self-assembly. and, in principle, it’s not a bad plane, judging by the technical specifications, and most importantly, if they managed to realize at least half of the potential that the Migovians wanted, then the plane was really nothing. By the way, Yak Lockheed bought the drawings, but how did the instant drawings get to China? tell me.
  23. propolsky
    propolsky 3 December 2015 18: 19
    0
    Well, aerodynamics and layout, of course, "gave birth to the queen at night, or a son, or a daughter." The more interesting it will be to watch the continuation of this "series".
  24. Alexdark
    Alexdark 3 December 2015 18: 33
    0
    Great futuristic design. We don’t live in the 80s ...
  25. iouris
    iouris 3 December 2015 18: 46
    +1
    Will this "bird" fly to the middle of the Pacific Ocean? Will not reach. Output?
  26. newcomer
    newcomer 3 December 2015 19: 03
    +6
    dear mvg, I registered to naively thinking that here is a normal experience, but in fact I made a few comments opponents throw like meat. dear if you recognize only the people you mentioned are worthy of attention, then I ask you to communicate on health. and with regard to the accuracy of the conclusions, this can be done by the machine tester and the ripper. by your ardent nature you belong neither to the first nor to the second. about yak officially lockheed cooperated with kb yak after he left the duet and officially, with the support of the authorities, he sold the blueprints in 1996, isn't it offensive? But the fact that almost half of the engineers of the KB sold along with the drawings and until now fruitfully work for the benefit of the Yankees is not offensive? info by the way from aviats. 2000 release. and the taboo that the principle of vertical lifting is copied like info wings of Russia, only instead of lifting sliders they have a fan. With regards to instant info from the wings of Russia and Aviation. also impact force. the Chinese have repeatedly come to Migovtsy about buying blueprints of both 1.44 and an easy single-engine version. Dear, and to read these characteristics and analyze can every person who is interested in the topic.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 3 December 2015 20: 39
      0
      The finished Yak-130 was given to Italians

      In 1992-1993, the Yak-41 with all its technology was copied by lockhide, 5 engineers left, the rest, as well as partially their families, did not live long ...

      For a long time there worked only one and that was thrown out, and a little earlier than it should ... lol
    2. mvg
      mvg 4 December 2015 00: 53
      +1
      sorry if touched .. wink
      nothing personal. in VO normal communication. Nobody is sending anyone for anything. Even on foot erotic travels.
      Regarding my "recommendation" letters ... Yes, I just remembered those whose comments are the most professional, here are a few of them .. something that I did not remember all .. well, my subject is not deep.
      on the previous forums "sent", just according to your post, at the expense of the Yak-38 (41, 141). So, just not so long ago an article on this topic was discussed. Maybe the Lokhidovites bought it, but they didn't do it as suggested by the Yakovlev Design Bureau. We took into account the mistakes. Yak - 41 by no means became a "dad" for the F-35. I will not retell the article.
      As for the MiG-1.44, well, it's better to talk about this miracle faffle to the Nexus .. he's a fan of it. I can only say bad things. I attack everyone.
      I will immediately answer Scraptor, about the Yak-130, as usual, I saw something in the newspaper and immediately wrote a post (garbage that the newspaper was called Sport-Express). So the Yak-130 was originally developed together with the Italians. Well, KB had no money. The most "offended" design bureau in Russia. After the Yak-40 (42) in civilian life and the Yak-38 for the fleet, nothing was serially built. What am I talking about ??? Oh yeah ... Italians had no reason to buy or steal documentation .. they just had it from the very beginning as partners ..
      PS: I'm sorry that I seemed so vile hi
      1. Scraptor
        Scraptor 4 December 2015 03: 56
        -1
        U.S. too...

        your approximate "Maybe the Lokhidovites bought it" somehow does not immediately correlate with "in no case" already with a claim to reliability. Learn to lie more naturally
        This design bureau did not offer, it did. Is the base for the F-35 was the XFV-12? Better not retell, because the Americans bought everything from them and then, without taking into account the mistakes with the Ryan XV-5 Vertifan, they came to the same thing, the colors of their childhood dreams ...

        On Yak-130, as usual, you are again busy with erotic bowel movements outside the specially designated places within walking distance.
        The Yak-130 came to the Italians at the very end (although the price of the issue was already from 1,5 to 5 million and not just 500 thousand, as with Freestyle), and besides him and the Yak-141 even the former museum Yak-3 disappeared from this design bureau flying exhibit.
        The Italians had no experience in creating even such aircraft as the Yak-130. In Alva Jet, they were in third roles.
        So did these "partners" have the documentation from the beginning, or did they jointly develop it? lol
        How much do they pay you for your abomination, in what currency, and at what rate?
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 4 December 2015 21: 10
          0
          Quote: Scraptor
          Yak-130 hit the Italians ....

          And the Chinese have a variant of this aircraft.
          1. Scraptor
            Scraptor 5 December 2015 01: 57
            -1
            This is an option made by the Chinese for at least some money, the Italians got all the technology on the Yak-130 at a price of 10 to 30% of the cost of one production car, and until very recently the Russian Federation could not sell the Yak-130 without their consent except in their own Air Force RF permission for the Italians to sell M-346 (Yak-130) anywhere outside their state was not required.
            Yak-41 Americans in general for 500 thousand left with all ends, and even the Yak-3 was not returned. So much does not even cost one of its serial penguin (F-35) wing (costs more).
  27. cap
    cap 3 December 2015 19: 08
    0
    Quote: dchegrinec
    Quote: Monos
    But interestingly: do their fighters fly the same way my Chinese flashlight works?

    Chinese lanterns with acid batteries work fine if you add distilled water to these batteries and charge them.

    My had to throw it away. One-time however laughing .
  28. Tatarus
    Tatarus 3 December 2015 19: 14
    -1
    Long live the printer of Chinese work.
    He will do everything, not even bots are needed.
    Copying everything and doing is not difficult.
    Here it’s apparently boring to take and come up with it.

    They are yellow priests ... (I will not continue)
    (And then suddenly I will not forget firewood and taiga)
    Chinese and Russian, after all, brothers forever?
    I think in shock a simple person.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 3 December 2015 19: 31
      +1
      Or maybe J-20 "development" of our MiG 1.44
      as suggested in this article?
      http://vpk.name/news/92208_mig_144_prodolzhaet_nahoditsya_na_sverhsekretnoi_voen

      noi_baze__sputnikovoe_foto.html

      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 3 December 2015 19: 36
        +2
        Quote: quilted jacket
        Or maybe J-20 "development" of our MiG 1.44
        as suggested in this article?
        http://vpk.name/news/92208_mig_144_prodolzhaet_nahoditsya_na_sverhsekretnoi_voen


        noi_baze__sputnikovoe_foto.html


        Similar, but there are 30 years of difference between these prototypes. hi
        1. padded jacket
          padded jacket 3 December 2015 19: 48
          +2
          Quote: NEXUS
          Similar, but there is a 30 year difference between these prototypes

          Yes, I know, but I mean that 30 years ago we designed airplanes that are simply strikingly similar to the current stealth and if different Chubais and Gaidars had come to power under the leadership of Yeltsin, we would have already had hundreds of such aircraft.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 3 December 2015 20: 01
            +3
            Quote: quilted jacket
            Yes, I know, but I about what we lost 30 years ago, we designed airplanes that are simply strikingly similar to the current stealth and if different Chubais and Gaidars had come to power under the leadership of Yeltsin, we would have already had hundreds of such aircraft.

            MIG-1.42 began to be developed in 1986. That is, earlier than the Raptor. USSR then for the first time in the construction of fighters went ahead of the States, because before that, we were only catching up. But due to poor funding, and hence the slow process of fine-tuning this MFI, all happened how happened.
            Well, in the 97th (if sclerosis does not change me) the SU-37 "BERKUT" appeared for carrier-based aviation. Well, on Berkut, after all, they tested all the decisions and ideas for the 5th generation. And the MIG-1.44 program was quietly closed.
            I sometimes think if MIG-1.44 were brought to a series then today Russia would fly on completely different machines. Perhaps even an order of magnitude faster and more maneuverable and armed. Ehh ... tagged and drunk so that you were empty.
            1. mvg
              mvg 4 December 2015 00: 05
              -1
              appeared SU-37 "BERKUT" for carrier-based aircraft

              Su-47 (S-37) Golden Eagle. Do you know the mass of the plane? So that this carcass took off from Kuzi, it is necessary to give him such a kick! And what is the difference between a deck aircraft and a land plane ... also imagine .. Or does this pepelats have wings and so are they looking in the opposite direction?
              Recently, Bogdan told the story of the creation of the Su-47.
              And you are just a FAN of the MiG-1.44, just like the MiG-41 (well, the one with 4500 km / h wassat )
              Too many attacks on Poghosyan .. And if the MiG project was viable, it would fly ..
              And about "if only, if only" ... And grandma would be a grandfather. There is a lot of poker, but let's hope that "Everything will be fine"
              1. Scraptor
                Scraptor 4 December 2015 00: 18
                -1
                He took off better and all the more sat down than the Su-33, and even better fought, but the maximum speed for interceptions is not enough.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 4 December 2015 01: 10
                  -1
                  Yes, you are, frankly, apaldeli ... You really read the interview of test pilot Bogdan. On his DR was published. So, in order for this firebird to fly up, such as Kuzya, it was necessary to put 3 pieces in a row .. But it’s better to land immediately in the water, and then pull it to the nearest ground.
                  Well, really, before you write something, why not look at the Internet? Right now, the age of wai-fay .. You can drag a laptop into the toilet. Earlier, in the 20th century, for proper education, the necessary literature was specially selected in the toilet ..
                  PS: Like "The Count of Monte Cristo", Dumas. Abbot Faria, taught Dantes all sciences in 3-4 books .. wink
                  1. Scraptor
                    Scraptor 4 December 2015 01: 47
                    -1
                    It looks like you are writing from there ... bully A reverse strobed wing is needed for short take-offs and landings with a larger angle of attack than conventional ones, and also for U-turns in the BVB. At high speeds, it is difficult to avoid torsion, so the maximum speed is limited. But she’s still bigger than the Superhornet. The next time you take the encyclopedia or the complete works of the classics there with you so that the paper does not end longer. laughing
              2. NEXUS
                NEXUS 4 December 2015 00: 26
                +1
                Quote: mvg
                Su-47 (S-37) Golden Eagle. Do you know the mass of the plane? So that this carcass took off from Kuzi, it is necessary to give him such a kick! And what is the difference between a deck aircraft and a land plane ... also imagine ..

                The only flying instance of the Su-47 is an experimental one, which was created to work out the airframe scheme, layout solutions and materials, so the weapons on it are not and cannot be placed technically.
                The "Golden Eagle" is made according to the aerodynamic design "linear integral plane" with a reverse sweep wing (CBS). The wing is evenly combined with the fuselage, creating a single carrier system. Distinctive features of the design include upgraded wing inflows; unregulated air intakes of power plants are introduced under them.
                The first references to the development of the Sukhoi Design Bureau of the fifth promising fifth-generation fighter in OKB appeared in Western aviation magazines in 1994-1995. It was believed that its design began in the late 1980s. At first, the only thing that was known about the new aircraft was that the main feature of its aerodynamic layout is the reverse sweep wing (CBS).
                Work on a promising fighter at the Sukhoi Design Bureau began almost simultaneously with other design bureaus, when the I-90 program was launched in the USSR in the early eighties. The company assigned the new car the C.22 index (C - swept wing, 22 - the first flight in the ninety-second year). At the first stages of design, the aircraft was supposed to be equipped with two RD-79M engines with a thrust of 17500 kgf each. each.
                At the beginning, the S-22 was a classic "canard", but in the process of detailed design it became clear that the design was overweight, at the same time the requirements of the Air Force changed.
                The project of the updated aircraft received the C-32 index. Apparently due to the shortage of promising AL-41F engines (Vol. 20), which were primarily intended for 1.42, the D-32F30 - D-6F30 modification was installed on the S-11.
                The Air Force abandoned the car immediately, but there was a document signed by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy of the USSR, which served as the customer’s request. Further development of the design went as a universal fighter for aircraft carriers. The project was renamed and named Su-27KM (ship modified).
                The use of the reverse sweep wing on the Su-27KM had the following advantages:
                • increase in aerodynamic quality when maneuvering at low speeds
                • greater lift compared to the direct sweep wing
                • increase in flight range in subsonic modes
                • better handling at subsonic speeds
                • reduced take-off and landing distance
                • lower stall speed
                • improved anti-tearing characteristics
                • increase in internal volumes of the airframe.
                But in May 1989, by the decision of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Council of Ministers, among other topics, it was closed and the Su-27KM (S-32). The Sukhoi Design Bureau continued work at its own expense and in the early 1990s, together with the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, built only one experimental flying machine, which received the C-37 index and was nicknamed "Berkut" in the press. She only vaguely resembled the original Su-27KM and was mistakenly ranked among the notorious fifth-generation aircraft.
                The construction of the airframe was completed by the middle of 1996, and after a cycle of strength tests at the end of the year, it was transferred for completion. By May 1997, all the basic assembly and assembly work was completed and in mid-July the aircraft was transported to the LIS OKB in the territory of the LII in Zhukovsky.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 4 December 2015 00: 31
                  +1
                  Or does this pepelats have wings in the opposite direction?

                  According to the designers, the wings of the Golden Eagle should be folded forward to save space.
                  1. mvg
                    mvg 4 December 2015 01: 00
                    0
                    Take-off under 40 tons. Well, why is such a miracle? With the same carrying capacity as that of Rafal, who is empty pulls 9 tons. Or the flu. Because of this, the Su-33 take off with a limitation of 4–4.5 tons. And in real life 2-3 tons.
                    Yes, and "devour" MiG-31 D30F as it should. I also have to carry the tanker with me.
                    And the take-off and landing of such a cow is an extra load on the take-off deck and ramp ..
                    For another, this pepelats was made. They didn’t finish it. Just flying a glider.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 4 December 2015 01: 03
                      +1
                      Quote: mvg
                      For another, this pepelats was made.

                      Initially, yes, he went as an IFI for the Air Force. But then he was redesigned for the needs of the fleet.
                      Quote: mvg
                      They didn’t finish it. Just flying a glider.

                      So.
                      1. Scraptor
                        Scraptor 4 December 2015 03: 22
                        -1
                        It was made for the aircraft carrier, and for ultrashort stripes on land. For an aircraft carrier, due to the fact that the Superhrnet has a maximum tode speed, it is an excellent aircraft.
                    2. Scraptor
                      Scraptor 4 December 2015 03: 29
                      -1
                      Then, what actually flies far, sits well and does everything in the BVB better than the Su-27, and even more so than the Su-33.

                      Well, for another then what was he doing for? How are such aircraft in general, starting with the Yu-287 and continuing with the X-29?

                      Gliders just flew in Koktebel. Take-off with empty compare, it's so "European" ... The helicopter is painted too rainbow colors. lol
  29. PKTRL
    PKTRL 3 December 2015 19: 35
    -1
    What is it terrible, trough ... (especially in the first photo) what
  30. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 3 December 2015 19: 51
    +8
    An explanatory description of the aircraft on paralay. In a word, he is not a suit, a prototype no more.
  31. tinibar
    tinibar 3 December 2015 19: 59
    0
    Quote: 11 black
    You look at the first photo - and it feels like this Ф22 gives birth from Ф35 ... mdaa

    No, do not be fooled and do not console yourself, it is a product of the rape of F-22 Chinese thought, a submarine and a torpedo boat ... But as we say, a beautiful plane cannot fly badly ... But can an ugly one? .. Time will tell. ..
  32. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 3 December 2015 20: 41
    0
    It surprises me differently, the Chinese can make a bindingless lamp like that of a Raptor, but we cannot.
  33. CRASH
    CRASH 3 December 2015 21: 02
    +1
    What do you attacked the Chinese then? We will rejoice for them, no matter how, the first plane was built, albeit Frankinstein, but his own.
    1. Scraptor
      Scraptor 3 December 2015 22: 15
      0
      Not your own, but catch the "+" laughing
  34. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 4 December 2015 00: 08
    +1
    Quote: Good Me
    It is necessary to bet that, in a time interval unattainable for the enemy, take the most optimal position for using weapons. Achieved by the skill of the pilot, and the capabilities of the machine ...


    Undeniable!
    But "the occupation of the most optimal position for the use of weapons" is increasingly determined only by the achievement of the range of weapons use.
    Many modern missiles can attack even in the rear hemisphere, not to mention other sectors of application. So a lot of maneuvering by plane does not make sense. The missile maneuvers incomparably faster hitting the desired sector from almost any course.
    Although of course the topic is much more complicated since the pilot must also take care that the weapon is not used against him.

    Given the integration of the aircraft with a ground-based air defense system, AWACS, other aircraft. The pilot’s work more and more resembles a game of chess in many hands. Where is he a queen, then a pawn, then a passed pawn, then a chess player.

    That’s what they are fighting over, and not overmoving.
  35. biserino
    biserino 4 December 2015 00: 12
    0
    China is a world power that has never been a whore in the United States and with Iran and India are only global allies with Russia. Fact!
  36. mvg
    mvg 4 December 2015 00: 18
    +2
    PAK-FA in an extremely unusual color
  37. newcomer
    newcomer 4 December 2015 00: 22
    +4
    and the fan is not a fan. firstly, 1.44 was ready much earlier than drying. secondly, the speed of the instant is 3150. well, thirdly, didn’t you think why the “winning su” didn’t go into the series? and on the fa fa applied solutions in a jiffy? again, polemics to nothing is not for me. pogosyan really good leader is kb su but no way oak. how much information was in the resources about that, the Sukhovites insolently took the blueprints from the Migovites in their workshops. yes how many engineers forced to work on the su. he is a good man. he almost buried kb instantly.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 4 December 2015 00: 34
      0
      Quote: newbie
      firstly, 1.44 was ready much earlier than drying. secondly, the speed of the instant 3150.
      The plane took off only once - how can we say about it that it was already ready? Moreover, the planned engine for it does not exist, therefore, it is not worth talking about the speed of 3150.
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 4 December 2015 00: 38
      +1
      Quote: newbie
      and the fan is not a fan. firstly, 1.44 was ready much earlier than drying.

      Not really ... MIG-1.44 wasn’t even brought to the final prototype, in fact, unfortunately.
    3. Scraptor
      Scraptor 4 December 2015 03: 19
      -1
      What kind of Drying?
  38. newcomer
    newcomer 4 December 2015 00: 46
    +5
    good sorry. I can not refer not resource info_ I do not remember. I’ll definitely share it.
  39. mvg
    mvg 4 December 2015 01: 35
    0
    Barack Obama's nightmare:
    At the international summit, he sits at the negotiating table and then an embarrassed manager runs up to him: “Mr. President, I’m very sorry, I beg you to go. There are places only for whites ... "
  40. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 4 December 2015 09: 52
    +2
    Quote: Falcon
    Quote: Abrekkos The principle let go and forget has already transformed into the principle of "let it go and let it go" and is transformed into "dump it and let it go". To stealth against conventional aircraft, it means dumped unnoticed and unpunished.

    Not so easy. If you aim aim-120 at a great range and topple it, the result will be completely zero. It’s enough to shift the course a bit and the seek-120 seeker will not find anything if he follows only the ANN. To do this, you need to shine your radar further in order to conduct radio-correction of the rocket. And then the GOS captured it, and then again, it needs to be corrected.


    Of course you're right.
    I didn’t mean it, let it go and returned to the airfield (although such an option is possible today - let go of one brought the other). He dumped it, dumped it from the enemy’s control (defeat) zone. In jargon, this means only this (engineers do not determine the mission of the aircraft and how many weapons it should use in a particular battle) .. Then remember what was discussed. It was about priorities. And in particular, the priority of over-maneuverability. Let's not shy away from the topic. And then we will immensely expand the discussion area and waste time in vain.
    So you say that you need to give target designation. But remember what is the range of the missile launch and what is the radius of the modern radar for a modern super maneuverable target (the same Su-35). The radar is many times more long-range. So letting go and accompanying you can safely leave the affected area and if you are stealth then from the detection zone.

    What AIM-120 do you mean they are very different. AIM-120D already has a GOS capturing the same Su-35 for 25-30 km. Add this smallness to those 100-150 km of the safe zone that you are guaranteed to have.

    So you can just let go and dump. Believe me, I also know what I'm talking about.

    Quote: Falcon
    Until the gsn has captured it is possible. If no one conducts the radio correction will go into "milk"


    So it is corrected but from a safe distance for the attacker.

    Although in one you are definitely 100% right. Every peremptory statement is lame.
    There are always nuances.
    Therefore, I talked about the priorities and not about the need for uselessness. wink

    Let it be for now. But in the medium term, everything will change cardinally.
    But it will be completely different rocket and aircraft.
    1. Falcon
      Falcon 4 December 2015 10: 43
      0
      Quote: Abrekkos
      although such an option is possible today - let one put another


      Is such a principle implemented somewhere? In my opinion, these are only plans. By analogy with A-50. He also does not correct the rocket - but gives direction to the fighter, which must solve the problem itself. There, it’s not the target illumination with the radar that comes with the s-300. Or I'm wrong? request
      1. Abrekkos
        Abrekkos 7 December 2015 13: 17
        0
        We do not have. A potential adversary is implemented.
        1. Scraptor
          Scraptor 7 December 2015 21: 32
          -1
          Who do you have it with? In the USSR, back in the 1970s, it was already precisely implemented.
        2. Falcon
          Falcon 8 December 2015 09: 22
          0
          Quote: Abrekkos
          We do not have. A potential adversary is implemented.


          I doubt it. I did not hear the exact confirmation to be honest.
  41. azesm
    azesm 4 December 2015 11: 31
    0
    This Day, 4 December in History
    http://historyndex.com/