Military Review

Crushing special account

101
The new law on state defense orders brought only trouble to the defense industry enterprises


In the article by Oleg Lavrichev, General Director of Arzamas Instrument-Making Plant named after P. I. Plandin, “For whom was the new law written?”, The main shortcomings of the regulatory framework for the activities of defense enterprises were identified. Oleg Koshkur, General Director of Progress Plant of High-Voltage Electronic Components LLC (Ukhta), continues to talk about problems arising from the implementation of federal law No. 275 “On the State Defense Order”.

After reading the law of the first thought arises: on the basis of a concept and ideology, he was written? The declared goals are good, no words - strengthening control, reducing production costs, improving the efficiency of enterprises performing the GOZ. But it will not be about the goal, but about the path leading to it. And the option clearly chosen is not optimal.

I will list the most obvious problems arising in the implementation of the law.

1. Destruction of real cooperation, since in the proposed conditions it is more than likely that some suppliers will fail to work in compliance with the rules introduced. It is impossible to legally force them to comply with the letter of this law; they will simply leave the component suppliers market in order not to work at a loss.

2. The collapse of real production through financial manipulations with special accounts and money for them. For example, the profit is blocked on special accounts until the lead contractor has been executed (1 – 7 and more years). Who will compensate for inflation losses? Where to get funds for the renewal of fixed assets? When the loan rate in the bank is 20 – 23 percent and the allowed profitability of 20 percent (for any enterprises of all forms of ownership, all industries), development is excluded. Interest on the loan can not be higher profitability.

3. Impossibility or extreme difficulty in the implementation of tax, civil and labor legislation. As a result - the corresponding problems of the enterprise. For example, there is a direct ban on the payment of salary advances. It is not clear how to pay it at all with the simultaneous tax assessment of one hundred and seventy employees from five hundred accounts. And how to conduct settlements with suppliers from the same 500 accounts, if small, medium and even large suppliers refused to open special accounts at authorized banks?

4. The multiple increase in the number of accounting, the creation of economic departments, departments of labor and wages and other units to conduct separate accounting of financial and economic activities under contracts. Calculations show that in order to literally fulfill the law, we need to recruit 50 – 60 specialists to the above departments. (Reference: 170 people work at the plant. That is, more than 30 percent of staff will be employed in the non-manufacturing sector?) With an average salary of 35 thousand rubles (with taxes), the payroll per year increases by at least 25 million, and you also need to create jobs, provide them with hardware and software ... It also costs a lot of money. For the uninitiated: all these sums will fall on the cost of production, that is, increase its price. In our particular case - and it is typical for a huge number of enterprises associated with the supply of components, including for the defense industry - it is impossible to recruit highly qualified specialists for this work. In the village where the company is located, there is simply no corresponding personnel base. And how did we work without this 12 years? Who set the standards for the maintenance of special accounts and separate accounting for contracts for large-scale production of general industrial components?

Crushing special accountThere are no methods adapted for specific enterprises for maintaining separate special accounts of financial and economic activities under contracts, as well as software platforms for automating such counts. And the practice is this: the plant produces more than 250 thousands of accounting units per year, 2500 denominations, 20 recipes, production cycles - from 45 to 120 days, the number of pieces in the order - from 1 to 10 thousands of different types and denominations, and the division of products according to accessories to a specific contract appears only at the end of the technological chain, and technology does not allow separate accounting for operations. For example, even if you do not go into the technological details: it is impossible to load a compound formulation per item in a volume of 250 liters into the mill on 0,1 liters. A specific contract may involve the delivery of exactly one product - and kindly provide it with full bureaucratic support.

5. The multiple increase in administrative costs in connection with the maintenance of hundreds of special accounts in several banks. The nearest bank is in 35 kilometers, while taking into account the lack of an electronic control system and the “client-special account-bank” document system and extremely limited Internet traffic (in Moscow, they may be surprised, but there are still many places in the country optical fiber did not reach and where the Internet may not be for several days).

Assume that all enterprises have found the strength and ability to work strictly in accordance with the letter of the new law, they have no choice. What we get as a result? Collapse or at least a strong deterioration in the economic condition of enterprises associated with the defense industry, and defense companies themselves, as well as the industry as a whole. Disruption of the performance of the state defense order in terms of the actual guaranteed.

In addition, the monopolization of financial flows in five banks and the bureaucratization in conducting operations will most likely lead to a pressure to raise loans for the fulfillment of the state defense order in these banks. In fact, the law predetermines the “nationalization” of enterprises of any form of ownership of the entire cooperative chain. At the same time, monopolies (electric power industry, gas, housing and public utilities, etc.) remained outside the framework of this “nationalization” and do not participate in it. Over 12 years (from 2003 to 2015) we have an increase in electricity tariffs - 496 percent, gas - 547 percent, water - 384 percent, which can be completely interpreted as a state-imposed ban on economic development.

There is also such a thing that is not obvious at first glance as the disclosure of cooperative chains, which makes it easier for foreign “partners” to complicate or block the work of individual enterprises and entire industries. All information on cooperation goes through open communication channels. For example, in the procurement of precision machine tools from a leading global manufacturer, the condition for the delivery of equipment, the seller set the disclosure of information about the cooperation of the buyer. When enterprises operating in the defense industry complex are detected in the chain of cooperation, the transaction is terminated and the equipment is not supplied. The fact that in the specific case of Russian counterparts such machines do not and in the foreseeable future will not appear, no one cares.

275-FZ prohibits the purchase of equipment for money under contracts, arguing that the company should carry out such purchases only from their own funds. That is, from the profit, which, as noted above, is blocked until the parent company fully executes the state contract, or on loan funds at insane interest rates. How to carry out the production program for the production of products without the possibility of operational management of resources - at least for the purpose of buying a new equipment?

275-FZ also blocks the possibility for an enterprise to independently purchase materials, raw materials (in particular, chemical) abroad. In the absence of import substitution for the main types of raw materials used (chemically pure oxides), we are facing a halt in production. In our case, raw materials cannot be acquired exclusively for a specific contract, in grams and kilograms, as required by the new law. Purchases are made in large quantities, in tons, otherwise the cost of supply increases many times over.

And the notorious law puts small and medium-sized enterprises that supply components and materials for the MIC in obviously unequal conditions with public sector enterprises:

-no interest rate compensation on loans;
-no financing of funds for modernization;
-no planned capacity utilization;
- no rhythm of work.

Very important. This law puts domestic enterprises in obviously unprofitable conditions in comparison with foreign companies.

The method of applying 275-FZ is not spelled out, but it is already voiced by military officials. The picture turns out like this. Until a contract is signed and payment is not received for it (for any number of products), the plant must stand, raw materials should not be purchased at the warehouse, external sources (electricity, gas, water, etc.) should be disconnected, people sit at home and wait for the team. As soon as the contract is signed and paid (and under the state contract and without it), the company is obliged to produce products: it is instantly purchased, controlled, tested and imported raw materials, external sources of supply are included (electricity, heat ...), workers are invited and the production cycle begins. And so for each contract - from one to tens of thousands of products.

However, military officials do not answer the questions:

- what kind of production will sustain such a rhythm of work;
- how quickly this production will cease to exist;
- what will be the cost of products;
- how long the product release dates will be in reality with the existing logistics, taking into account the remoteness of the enterprise from industrial, resource and logistics centers, from suppliers of raw materials and how to deal with the supply of special imported raw materials;
- What suppliers will divide the supply of raw materials into grams and kilograms under contracts, if only large-tonnage deliveries are provided?

And if (in most cases this is the case), the cost of the contract does not cover the payroll, tax deductions, or electricity, gas, or water? Do not forget that the breaks between contracts can be from one to three months. What to do with technology, people at this time?

Another example from practice: the high-temperature furnace goes to the + 1 mode degrees per hour, and you need to bring the degrees to + 1500 and the stop after the execution of the contract should go with the same reverse speed. And if the speed is different, then for the second contract you need to build a new furnace (4 – 6 months and 30 million rubles).

I am waiting for someone who can clearly tell how to manage five hundred accounts in a small business. Who will explain why not a word is said about planning orders for at least five years ahead. I would like to know if we will wait for the orders on the construction of domestic plants for the production of chemical raw materials, on the establishment of production facilities for specialized test equipment and measuring equipment.

As a result, I would like laws that will stimulate the development of enterprises, and not complicate their lives. And for this, those who initiate and develop such documents should at least sometimes listen to the people who have to be guided by these laws and apply them in practice.
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/28162
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  1. Yellow white
    Yellow white 27 November 2015 18: 05 New
    -30
    In any case, in these realities, the defense enterprise will not be given an abyss.
    Yes, because of carelessness they can bring it to the pen, but they will help out, although at the last moment! hi
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 27 November 2015 18: 14 New
      49
      it is completely impossible to understand how it is possible to reduce the cost of defense products with constantly rising energy prices.
      But the cost of loans is generally not necessary.
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 27 November 2015 18: 25 New
        17
        Answers must be sought (can be seen) in the history of the system of dispensation of power and the law of the "authoritative" "organ" from the beginning of the birth of modern Russia!
        WHO? built this system and to whom? she obeys still. Who? it continues to strengthen! I personally see!
        Our long-time "PARTNERS"!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. ssergn
          ssergn 27 November 2015 19: 03 New
          +1
          Baikonur, something similar was already written to you in the previous thread: at least you yourself understood what you wrote and why. hi
          1. AnpeL
            AnpeL 27 November 2015 19: 43 New
            +3
            who initiates and develops such documents should at least sometimes listen to people who have to be guided by these laws

            Yes. There are such that laws are written by people who are ignorant of issues defined by the same laws. This takes place in almost every field of railway. Each of us somewhere works, studies, is simply interested and knows this firsthand, that it is in his industry that the legal acts seem to not coincide with reality or should not coincide in the mind. Nevertheless, in such an area as the defense industry, any details must be verified, rechecked a hundred times, and only then put into use. Well, if you press retirees, the Lord is powerful, rural schools are quietly covered, then at least in this area ... at least do not harm.
            1. _Alexei_
              _Alexei_ 27 November 2015 23: 14 New
              +2
              worked in Kursk gas-subscription receipt, next. Now Gazprom’s trouble is 3 minutes to resolve it, I’m exaggerating 1,5 hours on paper. People are laughing, but I don’t really have enough time to make applications with papers. One team for 23000 people
            2. Dormidont2
              Dormidont2 27 November 2015 23: 38 New
              0
              it’s not clear why the defense plant should take loans, and even at interest rates, let the auditors check the estimates of how much the materials cost, etc. and allocate funds from the budget as the order is completed, in stages, the director must answer for his excess
              1. go21zd45few
                go21zd45few 28 November 2015 08: 58 New
                +1
                And why is it not clear, just remember who heads the Central Bank of Russia and everything will become clear. The credit and financial policy of the Central Bank is built on the collapse of the country's economy and impoverishment of the population. In Russia, only 1% can enjoy the benefits; the rest are slaves of this system.
              2. APS
                APS 30 November 2015 09: 31 New
                0
                Dear, extra fat, please determine the company in which 100 people and in which 2000 people. Look at the cost calculation and see that the cost of the product will be 3 rubles, but in a large plant it will cost 10 rubles. A plant is such a mechanism in which there should be people, equipment, laboratory, department for testing, etc. it all should be and everything in value. It just seems to me in some areas it is time to stop counting money to such an extent, if you think only about money, then there will be no development, you need to think about whether it is necessary or not. And the law really complicates the work of our enterprises, who need these heaps of separate accounts, in my opinion this will only make it worse ...
            3. Andrey NM
              Andrey NM 28 November 2015 08: 30 New
              +1
              An example of lawmaking. Legislation on technical regulation. The supervisor conducted an audit, issued an order. Failure to comply with the order faces a fine of 400000 rubles. Fulfilling the order, we fly to a fine of up to a million rubles. They outlined the problem in the relevant ministries and departments with a full layout of conflicting documents. Some wrote that they were not authorized to comment on the legislation (those who are at the top of the problem) and redirected requests to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, they answered us that the request is under consideration in the legal department. We are waiting for a response for the third month. Meanwhile, there are courts that are in the first instance oblige to comply with the order ("fly" a million), the higher court - cancels, but the problem remains. And the thing is only two pieces of paper ...
              And there are just such examples of mountains!
        3. podpolkovnik
          podpolkovnik 27 November 2015 19: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Baikonur
          Answers must be sought (can be seen) in the history of the system of dispensation of power and the law of the "authoritative" "organ" from the beginning of the birth of modern Russia!
          WHO? built this system and to whom? she obeys still. Who? it continues to strengthen! I personally see!
          Our long-time "PARTNERS"!
        4. afdjhbn67
          afdjhbn67 28 November 2015 05: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Baikonur
          Our long-time "PARTNERS"!

          You tear your own template ... think again wassat
        5. go21zd45few
          go21zd45few 28 November 2015 08: 50 New
          +2
          Anyone who writes and adopts such anti-state laws, we know.
          As long as the duma and the government are mediocre,
          literate people in the economy, these are the laws that will be issued. But the law on confiscation of property from thieves and corrupt officials and their relatives up to the 5th tribe still does not pass. The adoption of the law on state defense orders is state. treason.
      2. Svetlana
        Svetlana 27 November 2015 19: 23 New
        16
        Quote: Stroporez
        with constantly rising energy prices

        In the energy sector, they also introduced the harmful system SAP Turbine, which increased the paper flow of all kinds of reports and invoices by a factor of ten. SAP Turbine distracts technical specialists to unusual bureaucratic accounting red tape - as a result, the number of technical accidents on power equipment is growing. At the same time, accountants are trying to dictate their terms to techies: prepare this paper for this deadline, and those transactions are forbidden from such and such to such a date of each month and only on those accounts and God forbid for these .. In power engineering inflate, the number of accounting departments increase, and technicians in the shops on the contrary reduce. There will soon be no one to repair boilers, turbines and electric generators at such a pace. But these accountants from the energy sector must be kept - and the electricity prices are rising ..
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 27 November 2015 21: 19 New
          10
          Quote: Svetlana
          At this pace, there will soon be no one to repair boilers, turbines and power generators.

          It seems that this is precisely the main task of the authorities.
          Quote: Svetlana
          But these accountants from the energy sector must also be maintained - these are the prices for electricity and are rising ..

          Here it should also be noted that our power system is mostly private, i.e. privatized.
          As an example, in our city the Sales Company as well as the water utility belong to the beneficiaries from London.
          It was not for nothing that in the late 80s, one American figure was broadcasting that a person or group of people who could privatize the USSR’s energy system would be the richest people on Earth!
        2. asiat_61
          asiat_61 28 November 2015 04: 44 New
          0
          What can I say about reporting: the old KGB principle is that more paper is cleaner than an ass.
      3. Alexl
        Alexl 27 November 2015 22: 09 New
        -2
        Steal less directors
      4. aba
        aba 27 November 2015 22: 49 New
        +3
        how to reduce the cost of defense products

        They probably want to, as usual, at the expense of working hands, since effective managers need a villa beyond the hill, holidays in the Caribbean and Seychelles, children in Sorbony to teach, and more.
      5. avia1991
        avia1991 28 November 2015 04: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Stroporez
        But the cost of loans is generally not necessary.

        Right!
        And the naive question is asked:
        Who set the standards for servicing special accounts and conducting separate accounting for contracts for large-scale production of general industrial components?
        Well, how is anyone ?! The "mistress" Nabiullina and Mr. Siluanov were "pissed off" to bring everything in line with THEIR interests!
      6. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 28 November 2015 05: 05 New
        +2
        [quote = Stroporez] it is completely impossible to understand how to reduce the cost of defense [/ quo

        For some reason, nothing in this article surprises me ..
        How can clerks fostered overseas, come up with a good defense - Medvedev and Co. forever ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. venaya
      venaya 27 November 2015 18: 18 New
      +5
      Quote: Black and White
      in these realities, the defense enterprise will not give an abyss

      It’s not a gulf, it’s true, but planning elements must be introduced. Tales that the market plans everything should be ignored; in reality, all the same, everything works according to the plan, only it has not been disclosed, because it is a commercial secret.
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 27 November 2015 18: 45 New
        +1
        History cannot be rewritten ... WE WON! And not just fighting spirit ... hi Does it all start from the beginning again?
      2. Altona
        Altona 27 November 2015 18: 54 New
        11
        Quote: venaya
        It’s not a gulf, it’s true, but planning elements must be introduced. Tales that the market plans everything should be ignored; in reality, all the same, everything works according to the plan, only it has not been disclosed, because it is a commercial secret.

        --------------------
        The fairy-tale market does not work in the military industrial complex ... Laws were written by naked accountants, now for some reason it is vain to consult technical experts, technologists and designers, everything is immediately transferred to a bare ruble. Under the Soviet regime, production was organized not for tenders, but for the technological chain, and there was a territorial principle that people in the territories were busy, production was initially optimized for cheap technology, the technologist knows better than an accountant how to optimize production. Nowadays, laws are being written to please banks, ostensibly to control budget funds, but in fact for "their own." Who will use the reserved money while the enterprise prepares production for itself and fulfills the order?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2015 22: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: Altona
          Laws were written by naked accountants, now for some reason I should go to the technical consultations

          Dear, the new edition of 275 was not written by an accountant. Remember, you don’t need to have either work experience or a higher education - it’s enough to have at least a secondary imagination to understand the whole wrecking essence of innovations.
          Quote: Altona
          Now laws are being written to please banks, ostensibly to control budget funds

          The jar is generally a light bulb. He only has a bunch of problems - they also need to inflate the states (and opening these accounts is free, so that the bank will not find it too little), then - control that the bank doesn’t fall sideways (the bank needs loans to be taken back and repaid, so that the cash payments are paid, and then neither one nor the other)
          In general, everyone suffered.
          Quote: Altona
          Who will use the reserved money while the enterprise prepares production for its own

          The bank will lose a lot more from outstanding loans. Now, defense order funds cannot be used to repay loans (more precisely, if you took funds to the same account, but this will not work).
          In general, we will try to live to the end of this madness
        2. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 01: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Altona
          The fairy-tale market does not work in the defense industry ...Laws were written by naked accountants, now for some reason consult with technical experts, technologists and designers, immediately everything is transferred to the bare ruble.

          Have you noticed that now everything is translated into the "bare ruble"? Who was accounting before? Someone between the manager and the janitor. And now accounting immediately after the General. And why? Because earlier, the Director General made money in production, and now in accounting. Previously, it was necessary to work, to produce products, but now to get the money, it’s right to cut and hide them. So it turns out that for the General, it’s more important than the assembly shops, but the cunning chief accountant ...

          As Vladimir Semenych sang,
          The country of Limonia has come -
          Solid Suitcases.
          Here we have such geography now - Limonia, Suitcases, Bookkeeping. Earlier, at the defense plants, the other three words were popular, which some considered Jewish surnames - Whatman, Kulman, Reisfeder. That's when they changed Kuhlman to Bookkeeping, and Whatman to Suitcase - and then something went wrong at our factories ...
        3. Yuyuka
          Yuyuka 28 November 2015 09: 11 New
          +2
          The fairy-tale market does not work in the military industrial complex ... Laws were written by naked accountants, now for some reason it is vain to consult with technical experts, technologists and designers, everything is immediately transferred to a bare ruble

          the era of amateurs has come ... at the head of production sometimes they put a person who does not have any technical education. Somehow I placed a small order at a private enterprise - it would seem who's stopping to put a specialist at the head? Directed by a relative. When he announced the cost to me, I asked how they counted? Well, we figured it out ... Why not according to the technical characteristics of the machine? - Well, we have no data! - Let's do the timing! - And how do we take into account the preparation for work? (!!!) In general, we stood together with him and noted the time ... for 1 part - 15 seconds. I ask, why did you lay the minute ?? Well ... we have rounded it up, there is preparation ... we figured ... To make it clear - preparation: put down the sheet, turn on the computer and wait until 500 details are done. All! And this is not even mathematics, arithmetic ... It was a pity to watch how this “director" floats in matters of technology and indeed in production ... did not finish it off. And the price was reduced three times. Previously, they would not have allowed such a thing through the entrance ... So in the government, are there any professionals in their field? request
          1. Kvazar
            Kvazar 28 November 2015 11: 34 New
            +3
            come on, a small order is simple, there always the price jumps from the bulldozer will not suit the price. Although they somehow proved to us that cutting an M3 thread in a finished hole in two passes with a screwdriver costs .... 75 rubles))). To which he was suggested that for 50 rubles for the operation we are ready to work for them ourselves)
            1. Yuyuka
              Yuyuka 28 November 2015 14: 05 New
              0
              Although we somehow proved that cutting an M3 thread in a finished hole in two passes with a screwdriver costs .... 75 rubles)))

              This is because a small order is shta - one person told me in secret repeat and then: you do not understand anything in modern technology! After all, this is not done by hand! As many as 2 (two!) Passes, and I guess for one approach! And write a program for a screwNovert? Yes, even in two passes - the first screw, the second helicopter! Here you are not here, this is a theoretical axiom! wassat or bisector? belay
      3. V.ic
        V.ic 27 November 2015 19: 29 New
        0
        Quote: venaya
        in reality, anyway, everything works according to plan, only it is not disclosed, because it isмsecret secrets.

        Dear, about the so-called tommrub the ears of yourself and your loved ones with a secret of secrets, because the proverb “what two people know = a pig knows” is probably more than a hundred years old.
        1. Altona
          Altona 27 November 2015 19: 57 New
          0
          Quote: V.ic
          Dear, about the so-called For commerce, rub your ears to yourself and your loved ones, because the proverb "what two know = a pig knows" is probably more than a hundred years old.

          ---------------------
          There is no "commercial secret", I know how to make semitrailers and railway cars, but nobody really needs this (there are so many manufacturers) ... But for some reason I always remember this knowledge ...
    4. vsoltan
      vsoltan 27 November 2015 18: 43 New
      12
      black and white

      Frankly, I didn’t read the article ... I ran through fluently ... the curvature of the new decrees becomes immediately clear - “holes in the budget" ... the strategic goals of the economy, to the people who are breaking it up ..., of course, they are incomprehensible ... well, or understandable ... then the question is not even competence, but in wrecking ... hesitates, everything is simple .. The government resigned, not all, but for the most part ... got to the liver, "effective managers" ... yeah, with salaries of a few lyam bucks a month ... concerned only with their pockets ... that's Zaora in Maidan: "Get!" And figs with them with about everyone, even if they’re not in prison, even in the Maldives and London ... they wouldn’t interfere only with Russia ...
      1. USSR 1971
        USSR 1971 27 November 2015 18: 54 New
        14
        I work in the defense industry. I confirm the author’s thoughts, everything is so. It is necessary to strengthen defenses, and here again the plants will get out and be cunning, but where to go, will they lose the last shots? Money managers again to hell, who will work? It’s not the situation right now to play experiments with the defense industry.
        I am completely and completely for the policy pursued by the president, but it seems that there are no less agents of influence and thieves. Cleaned probably bad.
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 27 November 2015 19: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: USSR 1971
          agents of influence and thieves do not become smaller. Cleaned probably bad.

          What do you think, why did Lavrentia P. B., in 1953, the true Marxist-Leninist-Communist Perlmutter lean against the wall?
        2. Asadullah
          Asadullah 27 November 2015 21: 00 New
          -1
          and here again the plants will get out and be cunning, but where to go, to lose the last frames?


          Yes, come on, otherwise today the budget of any order is not inflated to astronomical values ​​by cunning and twisting. And then one delivery goes through forty firms. I do not know how much this affects the work of a specialist in the workplace. But I know for sure, from this scheme, he does not get anything. You can assume, for example, that money is shared by the allocating and mastering subject. What is also possible without a regulation, although in fact, everything goes to the master. The law was made to make this impossible. Will the specialist remain without a job? Rather, those forty firms that created these forty firms will be left without work. Well, we don’t have the strength to squeeze all of you! sad
        3. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 01: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: USSR 1971
          Money managers again to hell, who will work?

          Wrote above
          Who was accounting before? Someone between the manager and the janitor. And now accounting immediately after the General. And why? Because earlier, the Director General made money in production, and now in accounting.
          After serving in the Soviet Army, for many years he was associated with defense plants and with their capital construction - in particular (they worked, most often, with OGM). I saw grandfathers who with Gagarin and Korolev vouched. Then valued smart designer, a milling wizard, a locksmith with golden hands. And now the main employee is the chief accountant. Maybe, of course, the directors would be happy, because the laws do not allow changing something ....
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 01: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: vsoltan
        the curvature of the new decrees becomes immediately clear - "patch holes in the budget"

        Usually, when I do something and I don’t get what I’d thought about, I dig deeper a bit, then I’ll sort it all out, sit and think about where the mistake is and from the very beginning I carefully begin to do it again.

        In our lawmaking, it doesn’t work out for some reason ... A bad law is to sit down, think about it, take into account mistakes and write a new, good one. No damn they patching Gaidarism as Melkosoft Windows - updates. Some holes are being slapped, others are opening with the same updates. Well, really - there was no sadness - updates were pumped up ...
    5. ssergn
      ssergn 27 November 2015 18: 51 New
      10
      Black and white

      In this case, you do not even have a clue what the article is about. I recommend reading the law and studying, many leaders have their hair stand on end. Moreover, the law gives authorized banks the functions of regulatory authorities. There are generally more questions than answers.
      Another incident - if the contract is signed and started to be executed before the law enters into force, then after the law enters into force, the company will not even be able to pay interest on previously received loans under this contract, especially if the advance payment is not enough. Believe me, I know what I'm writing about due to the fact that our company also encountered this. hi
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2015 22: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: ssergn
        Believe me, I know what I'm writing about due to the fact that our company also encountered this.

        drinks Similarly.
        God help us. There is no one else to hope for.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 28 November 2015 02: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          God help us. There is no one else to hope for.

          Help us God get rid of the fools in government and the fifth column in the economy.
          1. asiat_61
            asiat_61 28 November 2015 04: 55 New
            0
            Do you think He will hear us?
            1. Yuyuka
              Yuyuka 28 November 2015 13: 54 New
              +1
              Do you think He will hear us?

              I am so sorry - "He" is the one I think of? winked
    6. Jack-b
      Jack-b 27 November 2015 18: 52 New
      +4
      Quote: Black and White
      In any case, in these realities, the defense enterprise will not be given an abyss.

      What does a defense enterprise mean? A state-owned enterprise that works purely for the defense industry? Maybe. But we are talking about a bunch of non-state allies. Which work not only for the defense industry. Such enterprises should not let themselves go. And for this, they simply cease to work on defense orders. This will lead either to a breakdown of the defense order, or to the fact that they will be urgently replaced by those who are able to fulfill the requirements of the order. But it will cost a pretty penny. Because how to comply with this law is too expensive. This article is about this: the law does not achieve the stated goals, but has the exact opposite effect. As the saying goes: they wanted "the best," but it turned out "as always."
      Threat. And state-owned enterprises working for the defense industry will get problems. And they will be forced, albeit to a lesser extent, to compensate for them by price methods.
      1. PQ-18
        PQ-18 27 November 2015 19: 15 New
        -3
        we are talking about a bunch of non-state allies. Which work not only for the defense industry. Such enterprises should not let themselves go. And for this, they simply cease to work on defense orders.

        it's about that, however ...
        You give 100% guarantee THAT:
        the leadership of defense enterprises does not create an "artificial surplus value of the PRODUCTS" (for "indecently greasy" personal enrichment), through a SUBSTANT (and long) chain of cooperation?
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 27 November 2015 19: 36 New
          +3
          Quote: PQ-18
          You give 100% guarantee THAT:

          No, I don’t. It is highly likely that this is indeed so. But the problem is that the law does not correct this situation. Perhaps in some cases it will correct the situation and in some it will worsen. It is difficult for me to assess in what proportions these cases will be. But the author of the article is obviously more in the subject. He believes that more harm than good. In addition, if everything is really so bad, then this will lead to the cleansing of the defense from private traders. And most likely in the long run this will increase the cost of production. Artificial surplus value will be trivially plundered under different forms. In general, it already was. I am not saying that “artificial surplus value” should not be fought, it must. But if you believe the author of the article (and his reasoning is quite logical), then this law will not give a positive effect in this regard, but it will give a lot of negative effects.
        2. sky diver
          sky diver 27 November 2015 21: 03 New
          +2
          But for the detection of fraud was previously OBHSS. Who right now? Does hell know him? Until there are regulatory authorities and harsh penalties, they won’t work normally.
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 28 November 2015 02: 41 New
            +1
            On August 25, 1991, the Party Control Committee, the People’s Control Committee, the UCSS, the Department for Combating Economic Crimes in the KGB of the USSR, and a number of other controlling departments were the first to dissolve.
    7. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 27 November 2015 19: 33 New
      +3
      I have no words. The law was written by people who were not closely involved in real production. Not to mention the management of the enterprise. Recently, a "holiday" came to our house - the military sent a condition that they would pay for special products already delivered in August (!!!). score. Although they were supposed to pay according to the contract 3 months ago - no, they gave it to them honestly. Millions of rubles hung. It remains to write a collective letter to Rogozin, he gives the impression of the most adequate person.
    8. Asadullah
      Asadullah 27 November 2015 20: 48 New
      -3
      Yes, because of carelessness they can bring it to the pen


      You minus those who want to see enemies in the government. smile
      Really, the article is a bullshit sophisticated bubble. From any point, any law or rule, you can blow out the bubble of the most terrible tales about the black coffin on wheels. In this case, the enterprise is deprived of the opportunity to manipulate the money for defense orders. This and most of all depresses advanced managers, because during the execution of one, you can build, for example, a cottage-type village and sell it. To the sound of the waves. Since when, strict reporting, has prevented the plant from manufacturing products? !!! But this is the quintessence of the law - to stop abusing budget money. Why then, "irreconcilable patriots" vote not read or go deep (did not read, but condemn)? Yes, because we must once again kick the people who work. It’s so nice to kick someone with the height of his omniscience.

      At the same time, remember Stalin and some order. God forbid, in connection with the latest events, it will be necessary to introduce this special order, I promise, to each and every piner, by personal kyle. (joke laughing )
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2015 22: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Asadullah
        In this case, the enterprise is deprived of the opportunity to manipulate the money for defense orders. This and most of all depresses advanced managers, because during the execution of one, you can build, for example, a cottage-type village and sell it. To the sound of the waves.

        Write complete nonsense.
        Now all enterprises have been loaned, do not indulge in it at all - the "good old" times affected when you leaned on the defense side from the word "completely", and you survived by eating loans. Take almost any business - the loan portfolio is huge.
        But before there was money from the state defense order. They arrive - the company is being re-credited, repays loans that suit the term, and in return takes new ones. And now - shish, you cannot use GOZ money for re-interpretation. Those with GOZ accounted for 5-10% of the proceeds, they will survive, those with 25-40% have candidates for bankruptcy, and those with 40% or more are practically guaranteed dead.
        1. Asadullah
          Asadullah 27 November 2015 22: 30 New
          +2
          Now all enterprises are loaned, do not indulge in the most


          Talking nonsense? What did these loans go for? Do you know? No? So, I can tell you how a defense company works in the West, it is not a bank that lends to it, but a prepaid customer. What the hell, the company on the order to go on credit? And then, that he will always be given this loan. And not just give, but even a rollback to the director, if he takes. Not one has already been tried to throw out of work for this, but we have democrats, the court is restoring. All. Finally ends. It is a pity the good-natured ending, the workdays in the taiga do not shine.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 November 2015 23: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Asadullah
            Talking nonsense? What did these loans go for? Do you know? No?

            Unlike you - I EXCELLENTLY know. For, unlike you, I have been working at industrial enterprises since 1997.
            Quote: Asadullah
            So, I can tell you how a defense company works in the West, it is not a bank that lends to it, but a prepaid customer. What the hell, the company on the order to go on credit?

            That's just (surprise-surprise!) You are not in the West. And in the Russian Federation. In which, if forgotten, from about 1992 to 2008, the state defense order was frankly miserable. And the enterprises had to somehow survive - that is, they were lending, interrupting from bread to water.
            Quote: Asadullah
            And then, that he will always be given this loan. And not just give, but even a rollback to the director, if he takes.

            It’s just some kind of holiday :)) Listen, did you happen to come from what planet? Have you ever received a loan from a bank in a legal entity?
          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 01: 40 New
            +3
            Quote: Asadullah
            What did these loans go for? Do you know? Not? So, I can tell you how a defense company works in the West, it is not a bank that lends to it, but a prepaid customer. What the hell, the company on the order to go on credit? And then, that he will always be given this loan. And not just give, but even a rollback to the director, if he takes. Not one has already been tried to throw out of work for this, but we have democrats, the court is restoring.

            A cho I put one plus? Someone think that this is not so? It was during the Soviet era that the directors did not sleep at night, they earned heart attacks to give, for example, an engine on time and with design characteristics. And now they are not sleeping, because they are thinking about where to refinance, how much rent they get from the leased workshops and what else can be sold or scrapped at the plant.
            Quote: Asadullah
            Everything. Finally ends

            God forbid ... Only I'm not very sure of something ...
    9. sky diver
      sky diver 27 November 2015 20: 54 New
      0
      No one will help anyone out. Capitalism, bl ...
    10. marlin1203
      marlin1203 27 November 2015 20: 58 New
      +1
      And the reason is common to many industries in the country, since "managers steer." Those. people who do not have not only experience in the field in which they climb, but also elementary special education direct and "legislate". So with us in everything. The leader must grow out of the profession.
  2. Riv
    Riv 27 November 2015 18: 09 New
    -5
    A planned economy in all its glory. Everything was in the Union. What is he dissatisfied with ???
    1. WERSTA.
      WERSTA. 27 November 2015 18: 27 New
      +9
      Sir, no such blunders were allowed for defense industry enterprises in the planned economy. Even cooperation between different ministries was strictly adhered to. Deadlines were violated, but they were asked very strictly, right up to expulsion from the party. Today’s inconsistencies are the result of a liberal economy in which there is no responsibility and impunity reigns.
      1. ssergn
        ssergn 27 November 2015 18: 54 New
        +2
        Enough of the slogans then. By the way, the planned economy has not gone away (right). It’s just now called budgeting (which is also the essence of planning). And any sane private trader (capitalist, oligarch, merchant, trader and others, other) without a budget (plan), even, excuse me, will not fart.
        And the law is just for the order and invented. Very necessary, BUT, very, very hard, and even with an excess. Anyone who does not understand the essence of the problem recommend re-reading the article again.
        PMSM, the basic outline of the law is the strictest end-to-end control of every budget penny, up to the end consumer. hi
        1. PQ-18
          PQ-18 27 November 2015 19: 19 New
          +1
          hi You + colleague! ..
          Simply, many are not familiar with the economics and planning of (not even defense) enterprises ..
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 27 November 2015 19: 29 New
            0
            By the way, budgeting (planning) is a universal thing, like mathematics, which, with extreme simplification, is. Therefore, it does not matter where to apply it.
            The simplest example of universalism - the calculation of the cost (products, services or work) is some part of this process. Costs are considered everywhere, even on a civilian, even in the defense industry.hi
          2. Riv
            Riv 27 November 2015 19: 44 New
            -1
            Here is the author and a stranger. :) Welcome to the USSR.
            However, in the Union no one would begin to load into the reactor a “formulation of one composition in a volume of 0,1 liter”. To do this, there were experimental production, factory laboratories and production sites at the research institute. Here the problem is different: the author wants to eat a fish and climb a tree. And drive the shaft, and loot to go, as for piece goods, and to report less.
            And the state order - it’s not for that invented so that the loot would flow like water. So it goes...
        2. Grbear
          Grbear 27 November 2015 19: 23 New
          0
          ssergn-y
          Canvas Canvas, but why complicate the system. At the very least, the military-industrial complex has established links between state-owned enterprises and the private sector, which allow the defense industry to develop. And control is wonderful, and what, you can’t just blame it on the “erroneous” spending of funds today. Or is there no way to track this? wassat
          As a result, it turned out that instead of enforcing existing laws, we are adopting new ones that will either be “costed” or they will “choke” even a relatively honest entrepreneur (there can be no absolute honest ones in Russia).

          From the point of view of the accountant (debit credit) the law is good. Everything is clear and transparent, but the accountant, as a pathologist, fixes the fact and the reason, and has no idea about the realities of production relations. hi
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 27 November 2015 19: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: GrBear
            Canvas Canvas, but why complicate the system. At the very least, the military-industrial complex has established links between state-owned enterprises and the private sector, which allow the defense industry to develop. And control is wonderful


            There is one small nuance - this control is essentially IN REAL TIME. And an authorized bank, under pain of execution, will not transfer your money if the counterparty has not opened a special account with it (with the contract identifier).
            In fact, any fiscal with admission can, in the blink of an eye, track the entire cash flow of a contract only to an identifier throughout the country along the entire production chain. Something like this.
        3. Asadullah
          Asadullah 27 November 2015 21: 06 New
          0
          PMSM, the main outline of the law, is the strictest end-to-end control of every budget penny, right up to the end consumer. hi


          That's it. And the article, the reaction of the fox, who every day came to the chicken coop for a hen, and once saw the perimeter, and behind him there was far from a good watchdog, in free walking on fox pangs. And then the lamentations of the fox rushed! Ah, oh, poor hens, right now this vicious dog will strangle them ... nu-nu.
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 27 November 2015 19: 40 New
      +3
      Quote: Riv
      Everything was in the Union. What is he dissatisfied with ???

      Dear, under the Union, ALL worked for one pocket = state. If you started to work on your own, then the "tower" or "to the wall", which in fact was completely identical.
      1. Riv
        Riv 27 November 2015 20: 50 New
        0
        Well so and who said that the state order is a feeding trough? Just the opposite.
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 28 November 2015 01: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Riv
          Well so and who said that the state order is a feeding trough? Just the opposite.

          Government order is not just a feeding trough. This is an all-inclusive champagne and chicken restaurant. For all involved. In addition to the last link - the one who will do it directly with his hands. In Soviet times, I also saw funds for capital construction, and now tenders are schmenders. Then they gave money, but the ACS and OGM thought how and where to spend it, otherwise they won’t give so much next year. And now money is being cut, cut by tenders, intermediaries are sawing, sawing - one and a half rubles from 10 reach the performers. So build something with this money. Try a normal bricklayer (I'm not saying good!) For 500-600 rubles per day to find. And I know firms that find ...

          There, the scandal was with anchor chains for our new ships. The plant with the speaking name "Red Anchor" was not allowed to the competition, because it is not an affiliated "who needs" structure. But some office of "Horns and Hooves" won, which did not hide the fact that they had no production, and would buy anchor chains in China ...

          A simple example from life - a new fence was built at the granddaughter in a kindergarten. I found out that the Department allocated 700 sp. I went up to the director, I say that it doesn’t cost so much, there are only a few businesses on 300. And she says - we still won’t see this money, as we showed, from whom and how much they bought materials, as I looked at the welders who studied cooking on this fence ... And the director says - we, says, don’t choose, choose department ... And you would have looked at what the chicken came from this very Department to monitor the "erection of the fence"! So, I repeat, the state order is beneficial to everyone, except the one who executes it with his hands ...
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 28 November 2015 05: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            So, I repeat, the state order is beneficial to everyone, except the one who executes it with his hands ...

            This is the whole essence of the relationship between the government (officials) and the people (performers)!
          2. Riv
            Riv 28 November 2015 06: 12 New
            0
            Well, what are we talking about? The law puts it all under control. Not the fact that this mechanism will be used, but ... at least it is. Then it all depends on desire.
            We'll see ...
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Lelek
    Lelek 27 November 2015 18: 13 New
    +5
    Laws are often written and adopted by people who are not competent in a particular issue (artists, writers, kindergarten teachers, etc.). But God be with him, with the writing, but the examination of the future law before its adoption should be carried out by the docks in this matter, taking into account the opinion of the EXECUTORS, then everything will be a "bunch" and without incidents. yes
  5. DDsurgut
    DDsurgut 27 November 2015 18: 15 New
    -1
    why wait until everything grunts and then helps out? wrote an article here, write somewhere else, remove the plot, life will get better
  6. ava09
    ava09 27 November 2015 18: 16 New
    +3
    (C) I would like laws that will stimulate the development of enterprises, and not complicate their lives. And for this, those who initiate and develop such documents should at least sometimes listen to people (C)
    In order for laws to stimulate the development of enterprises, hidden enemies should be sitting on bunks, and not "listening" to people ...
  7. North
    North 27 November 2015 18: 16 New
    +5
    here and ponder. remember Kobu again.
  8. Egevich
    Egevich 27 November 2015 18: 18 New
    +8
    familiar with such phenomena ... often there is a desire to give up and go to sell pies ... people who write laws governing financial mechanisms often do not have a clue about what technological cycles and the realities of specific industries are ... in the end we have tied hands behind the back and the inability to fulfill the tasks in terms and quality ... conclusion - the sectors should be led by people with PROFILE education and relevant work experience, otherwise profanity and degradation, and as a result a complete polar fox ...
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 27 November 2015 18: 27 New
      +4
      You are right, but in our history, there was not a bad experience and was coordinated by L.P. Beria. Maybe "frames decide everything"? And, now, they are leading medicine, only with a specialized education, and the last normal minister was Chazov E.I.
      1. vsoltan
        vsoltan 27 November 2015 18: 51 New
        +4
        avva2012

        As a doctor, I do not agree.
        Chazov:
        1. Also with a specialized education (cardiologist)
        2. The court, lured labmedik ... incomprehensible scientific merits of the recommended academician
        3. The minister was inferior, however, he didn’t show all the deeds in line with the Soviet track ... he showed no organizational abilities ... he just sat in the ministerial chair ... like Chernenko ... that is, nothing ...
        IMHO
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 27 November 2015 19: 30 New
          +2
          Well, when Chazov was a minister, I basically still studied. But, we studied the algorithms for the management of myocardial infarction according to its developments. As a cardiologist, he has done enough precisely in this. The party then raised the issue of combating CVD and reducing mortality. He performed, in my opinion, not bad (not comparable with modernity).
          1. sisa29
            sisa29 27 November 2015 20: 15 New
            +1
            Well, why compare Soviet medicine and remake. There was an ideological struggle with the West, they tried to prove that they were taking care of the Soviet people, and indeed there were regular physical examinations, medical trips, the opportunity to always visit a regional doctor. Of course, science has stepped forward now. New equipment has appeared, but unfortunately in our modern country, everything is built on so that you can work while you can work. Pension .. Cynical. But why pull you? You are the waste material and also pay you a pension! Sense at the state level is trying to extend your existence. ? Sorry if I offended someone from the doctors, they are not to blame but the system.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 27 November 2015 20: 52 New
              +1
              New equipment has appeared, yes. But for example, equipment for endoscopic surgeries enters the central hospital, where there is no specialist on it and never will be. Here it lies, and chapters. the doctor also has a headache. The ministry demands a report, "how do you use it ?!" And do not apologize to the doctors, they will soon be gone. In polyclinics, at medical-therapeutic rates, paramedics are sitting. Because no. In institutes, what kind of competition? I’m not talking about the level of education of young specialists.
  9. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 November 2015 18: 18 New
    -7
    You need to learn how to work with problems! Those shortcomings that are present in the law must be worked out! Practice shows that focused work to eliminate such shortcomings yields results. We need to think over ways to establish the necessary contacts with developers. And if you just silently accept everything as it is and go spitting, there will be no sense. Moreover, if Moscow is involved here, then as a rule, work to eliminate the contradictions is carried out. Let not 100% but the effect will be. Organizational issues are a separate issue.
    1. ssergn
      ssergn 27 November 2015 19: 00 New
      +2
      Again the slogans ... sad
  10. Rosty
    Rosty 27 November 2015 18: 21 New
    +4
    Another issue is the timing. And prosecutorial checks, which take a lot of staff time. Moreover, according to the law, the entire supply chain should work this way, even if one of them is a supplier of 10 screws for a ship worth several billion.

    Unemployment is clearly not threatening officials - imagine how many there should be for the implementation of this law!
  11. tinibar
    tinibar 27 November 2015 18: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: Black and White
    In any case, in these realities, the defense enterprise will not be given an abyss.
    Yes, because of carelessness they can bring it to the pen, but they will help out, although at the last moment! hi

    And what does it mean they will not give an abyss? Will they throw some money? Yes sir! Here are all the grabbers and stuck to such enterprises. I’m working on this myself, I know ... And they are not brought to the handle out of disorder!
  12. smith7
    smith7 27 November 2015 18: 24 New
    0
    This is all true.
    1. Vladimir 1964
      Vladimir 1964 27 November 2015 18: 34 New
      0
      Quote: smith7
      This is all true.


      Unfortunately, colleague, you are right. The government campaign has created another "feeding trough" for officials and "close" bankers. Something else for some reason does not occur. Well, the sad thing is that this will not contribute to reducing the cost of defense products.
      1. smith7
        smith7 27 November 2015 18: 49 New
        +3
        The feeder was not created in this law, but 10-12 years ago. The document under discussion has absorbed echoes of previous vicious schemes. It turned out that this law is probably quite bad, but have somehow learned to cope with all this? Safely, once again we disrupt the state defense order, pay penalties, become poorer, and again we agree to work with zero profit ... This is the path to ruin and we have been following it for a long time without turning.
        1. Vladimir 1964
          Vladimir 1964 27 November 2015 19: 26 New
          0
          Quote: smith7
          The feeder was not created in this law, but 10-12 years ago. The document under discussion has absorbed echoes of previous vicious schemes. It turned out that this law is probably quite bad, but have somehow learned to cope with all this? Safely, once again we disrupt the state defense order, pay penalties, become poorer, and again we agree to work with zero profit ... This is the path to ruin and we have been following it for a long time without turning.

          I agree, colleague, your idea is more complete than my statement. hi
  13. viktor561
    viktor561 27 November 2015 18: 27 New
    +6
    Not the first and not the last stupid law from the government - can something be fixed in the government?
  14. Stinger
    Stinger 27 November 2015 18: 40 New
    +4
    I am waiting for someone who can clearly tell how to manage five hundred accounts in a small enterprise.

    It seems that you will not wait. The authors of the law did not see the production in their eyes. Not for that they went to the legislative bodies. Here are the state standards, they are canceled by the master, but not developed. Impossible.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 27 November 2015 19: 16 New
      0
      And they develop something like this
      The bureaucrats are planting a couple of smart skulls for computers and books, and the task is to "build" such that it would be, as it were, from the previous GOST, and from the requirements of the West, but that there would be a HOLE for rollback and excuses. They gave associate professors a piece of greenery and dosvidos, and I carried the bill to the Duma. There the lobby is waiting.
  15. starshina pv
    starshina pv 27 November 2015 18: 47 New
    +1
    you need to ask Medvedev !!!!
  16. Barakuda
    Barakuda 27 November 2015 18: 51 New
    +1
    As always, no one is responsible for anything, who will be to blame? Who waved and prepared papers? Well, it’s hard to plant for real terms, if something is wrong. (A law must be developed and approved, and the article is appropriate) And then they will produce stupid economically “justified” laws, and then immediately into the bushes. Even if they haven’t been at the post for five years, they should still answer! And deputies who voted "FOR" to drive you. without excesses by itself ..
    Well, I think so modestly.
  17. afrikanez
    afrikanez 27 November 2015 18: 52 New
    0
    While such lawmakers are sitting at high posts, you can’t count on more. Zadolbali these corrupt policies. Well, what to do with such ????
  18. KRIG55
    KRIG55 27 November 2015 18: 56 New
    +5
    Let’s better the general director writes what his salary is and what kind of worker he has. In order not to be unfounded - an example: one very respected enterprise of Volgograd - general director -740tys.r, engineer 3 kat - 11tchs.r this is for 2012 , today I think the numbers have changed, the proportions are unlikely. So, first of all, you need to get rid of the greed of managers, and the roughness of the law will be polished over time. And all the enterprises of the military-industrial complex should be returned to the state. And all these joint-stock companies, OJSC, and LLC just to limit state control.
    1. interceptor58
      interceptor58 27 November 2015 19: 21 New
      +1
      I absolutely agree - the military-industrial complex will return to the Federal State Unitary Enterprise under the control of the ministries, and now the AO now pays 25% from the state defense order for no reason. And having received even the state defense order, he does not receive any prepayment and immediately goes for a loan to the bank that Rostec appointed. The interest on the loan is not taken into account in the state defense order. CEOs are mostly fed and do the will of those who put them.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. cap
    cap 27 November 2015 19: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Baikonur
    Baikonur (6) SU Today, 18: 25 ↑ New

    Answers must be sought (can be seen) in the history of the system of dispensation of power and the law of the "authoritative" "organ" from the beginning of the birth of modern Russia!
    WHO? built this system and to whom? she obeys still. Who? it continues to strengthen! I personally see!
    Our long-time "PARTNERS"!

    It's like hell planted once then uproot for several years.
    bully
  21. Gaersul
    Gaersul 27 November 2015 19: 23 New
    +1
    The article is correct. Such insanity is happening, the pants support teams have divorced and so many, where can I increase the staff then? Well, the worst thing is with tenders. One gets the impression that the defense industry is being destroyed, not all, but certain sectors are accurate.
  22. Angara
    Angara 27 November 2015 19: 29 New
    0
    the head already hurts from these legislators. the fact that they are brought up by the West "Effective" managers and managers is obvious. But my question is when will all this shushera be kicked out of the Russian Federation with a filthy broom? I will add that 44 and 223 laws are what: open the chain of owners, etc., and give consent to the processing of YOUR DATA up to the color of the shorts that you put on today. And he is obliged to conclude an agreement even in the amount of 500 rubles, yes, just 500 rubles, not 500 thousand rubles. Is this not idiocy? Everyone advocates for the support of small and medium-sized enterprises and is immediately strangled on the vine forcing to write pieces of paper. Why the hell do I need it if I already sell goods? The shaft of failures of cooperation with enterprises falling under this law. as a result, the disruption of the production plan thanks to our lawmakers. am
  23. Rostislav
    Rostislav 27 November 2015 19: 42 New
    0
    The surest way to kill an idea is to bring it to the point of absurdity. This is exactly what was done in the new law.
    There is not even sabotage, here the diversion is visible.
    Enemy efforts are not weakening (it’s enough to use quotes already) to destroy the industry, as they clung to the 90s, they are not letting go. Do not wash, so ride ...
    I hope that the hands of GDP and Shoigu will reach here too.
  24. Victor Demchenko
    Victor Demchenko 27 November 2015 19: 53 New
    0
    I have not read the comments, but I will say one thing: the economic bloc of the government resigned, and immediately! Otherwise, the polar fox will sneak up to us faster than urkain.
  25. jaroff
    jaroff 27 November 2015 20: 05 New
    0
    He repeatedly spoke and wrote about this. Under the flag of accounting and control, clean accounting, sabotage of the fulfillment of the defense state order is hidden. This is very often at defense industry enterprises.
  26. gcn
    gcn 27 November 2015 20: 34 New
    0
    Before the new year, both the prime minister and our thought are more and more surprised by the adoption of laws on the fact without timely publication in the media. Moreover, they have clearly pushed against us, it seems that something like 90s influence agents is working (don’t laugh).
  27. Michael_59
    Michael_59 27 November 2015 20: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Angara
    But my question is when will all this shushera be kicked out of the Russian Federation with a filthy broom?


    As long as the question is this way - never. No one will do anything for you. So life is arranged. You see the problem - you go and decide. If we sit and stupidly wait - we are a herd, and they are shepherds.
  28. almamatkulov.
    almamatkulov. 79 27 November 2015 21: 42 New
    -1
    Quote: AnpeL
    Powerless Lords, rural schools quietly cover, then at least in this area ... at least do not harm.

    A pig is always a pig. It's a shame that the top of the pigsty has a rating of 90% among the civilian population. No, well, Putin is good, only the signature on all Federal Laws is worth it. HIS!
  29. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 27 November 2015 22: 27 New
    0
    “I’m waiting for someone who can clearly tell how to manage five hundred accounts in a small enterprise. Who will explain why there is no word on planning orders at least five years in advance. I would like to know if we will wait for orders to build domestic production plants chemical raw materials, on the establishment of specialized testing equipment and measuring equipment. "

    Well, so young managers, after all, everyone knows how to properly manage the economy - it is not without reason that they studied at foreign elite universities with the money of the robbed people of Russia by their dads. Now the T-50 will cost as Amer F-35, if not more! It’s necessary to drive all these advisers with a filthy broom from all state-owned companies - they don’t understand a damn thing in the economy! laughing am
  30. tor978
    tor978 27 November 2015 22: 50 New
    +2
    Today I experienced the effect of these laws on myself: now, having done the details, I have to run to the terminal (located 100 meters from the machine), while I must drive in an individual code, if there are barcodes on the accompanying passports, fill in much less, if not, then drive in a bunch of numbers, since the new system is still being worked out, then there is no stroke, respectively. Next, I fill out an accompanying, even some piece of paper, about how I completed the amount of time without marriage, etc. , although all this is already in the accompanying passport. The master at this time sits and plays on the phone, gets more than me at times and this is at a closed state defense enterprise. In general, everything has been done so that I, as they say for ... e ... ba ... v ..., and the authorities, not coming to me, can check the manufacturing process of the parts using my computer. Plus a bunch of unnecessary bureaucracy, accompanying documents were replenished with two extra pieces of paper. It was very lucky that the terminal did not work for them as it should, but I think the pests will still do as they need. As for pests, about a year and a half ago they stuck a device on my machine to properly monitor the work of the machine, simple, machine setup, program setup, etc. They connected, everything worked, and as a result, when the gender changed, six months after the installation of the device, this device turned out to be useless to anyone, the electricity still goes to it. But I think that someone mastered the money in full. In general, just pent for Friday with these innovations, I'm sorry if something is wrong.
  31. Alexl
    Alexl 27 November 2015 23: 01 New
    +1
    The law has been in force for 3 years. If it were so crooked that it would make production impossible, as the author claims, then for these 3 years no production would have been released on state defense orders. But this is not so.
  32. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 27 November 2015 23: 02 New
    0
    The whole problem is that, as in the 90s, external Amerian rule was imposed on us in the political, economic and other strategic areas of the country's life, today we have not completely left the Yankees' guardianship!
  33. Million
    Million 28 November 2015 00: 12 New
    0
    Wild capitalism in Russia will not lead to anything good. The bad thing is that no one knows what needs to be done to change the situation for the better
  34. Orionvit
    Orionvit 28 November 2015 00: 44 New
    0
    Quote: AleksL
    Steal less directors

    Just the directors do not steal a lot, you can ask the director. Steal (or rather hide the income of the owners), and government officials at various levels. And the owners are often from far abroad, and bureaucrats have children or wives abroad. They didn’t care about the country.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 28 November 2015 03: 19 New
      0
      I read all the comments and realized that it was necessary to return to the methods of industry management that were in Tsarist Russia the field of the First Russian Revolution. When the real prices for the products of enterprises were put up for auction and the State Duma demanded a report from the Ministry of Finance for every penny of the budget. Payment was made for large orders by payments for each stage of production. Links: a series of "Wonderful Ships". There are selections from archives and links to archives where the document came from. And we have all the trouble in the first place comes from uncontrolledness. And no need for the Bahamas and Florida and Cyprus. In Tsarskaya There were much more of them in Russia than now and how much state property of Russia and the USSR went to crooks since the time of Khrushchev, when this squandering and donation began, no one knows. The golden coast of the Mediterranean was almost completely in RUSSIAN HANDS. It is good if some of these possessions were left in the hands of descendants of Russian emigrants of the first wave, the rest is squandered for nothing.
  35. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 28 November 2015 04: 19 New
    0
    In the days of Stalin, such things were called wrecking !!! / execution /. The developers of such programs are people who have no idea in production / have learned a bit more ... would be abroad / and believe that it should be so. The main emphasis is on saving money, not understanding at all what conditions enterprises work in, here hence the legs of the bureaucracy “grow up, for each ruble spent, make up three pieces of paper. One thing is surprising, as under the communists in an enterprise of 500-600 people, 4-5 accountants worked and managed, now 4-5 times more and have at hand s / c and the Internet. And the author is right, all this rests on the cost of production, and if you take into account the "parasites" in the vertical of management, the products become "golden", therefore the factories of the military-industrial complex either "lie" or pretend that they are working.
  36. asiat_61
    asiat_61 28 November 2015 04: 33 New
    0
    a word is not said about planning orders at least five years in advance. I would like to know if we will wait for orders on the construction of domestic factories for the production of chemical raw materials, on the creation of production of specialized testing equipment and measuring equipment ... And whoever wrote the law in 5 years will be in London, so that he will deeply shit.