Military Review

Media: Ukrainian developers An-178 made a mistake when calculating the centering of the aircraft

142
At the very beginning of the flight tests of the first prototype of the An-178 transport aircraft built by GP Antonov, a serious problem was found with the alignment of the vehicle. As it turned out, the reason for this was the miscalculations of the developers, reports Look with a link to the bmpd blog.


The first flight An-178, airfield "Gostomel", 07.05.2015 g

“As a result, in order to ensure normal alignment, the aircraft is forced to perform all any lengthy test and distillation flights with an additional ballast weight of 1,32 tons in the form of a package of 15 kg steel plates weighing 85 – 90 kg each, laid behind the flight deck,” writes the publication .

It is reported that "it was with this ballast that the prototype An-178 made flights to air shows in Le Bourget, and now to Dubai, and after landing, the ballast is quickly unloaded to conceal the fact of its presence on the plane."

The ballast, as it should be expected, worsens the characteristics of the transport worker, “already not corresponding to the advertising data declared by the manufacturer,” the publication notes.

Presumably “the reason for the incorrect alignment of the machine was the decision taken at the design stage in 2012 to increase the wing span of the An-178 by 2 meters, as well as the wing area from 88,5 to 98,6 square. m while maintaining the same parameters already projected fuselage, the author writes, citing expert opinion.

This decision was made in order to correct the identified error, when calculating the take-off and landing characteristics - they turned out to be insufficient in relation to the stated.

According to experts, “a means of correcting a centering defect can be an increase in the length of the aircraft’s fuselage near the center section and nose, but this will require a serious redesign, construction of a new prototype, and, in fact, a new test program for the redesigned aircraft.”
Photos used:
www.airliners.net/Oleg Belyakov,
142 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Vladimyrych
    Vladimyrych 13 November 2015 10: 45
    41
    Yes, now they’ll at least let them design a cart - they’ll give a fuck. And then a plane or a helicopter ... laughing
    1. Air Force captain
      Air Force captain 13 November 2015 10: 51
      +5
      Who would doubt that this will happen ....
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 13 November 2015 10: 57
        +7
        Glory to Urkaine! b ... lin - always - lumpy!
      2. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 13 November 2015 11: 01
        66
        Quote: Air Force Captain
        Who would doubt that this will happen ....

        All this is very sad. The sad thing is that our people in Ukraine have forgotten how to think and forgot history and family ties. The sad thing is that we perceive their mistakes with joy, and this does not differ from them!
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 13 November 2015 11: 22
          +5
          Quote: Oleg147741
          Quote: Air Force Captain
          Who would doubt that this will happen ....

          All this is very sad. The sad thing is that our people in Ukraine have forgotten how to think and forgot history and family ties. The sad thing is that we perceive their mistakes with joy, and this does not differ from them!


          no damn it mistakes ... remember the cult Brother 2 ... it's about us ... but they warned ...

          I love this taxi driver ... especially in the first minute ...

          1. Temples
            Temples 13 November 2015 11: 33
            26
            The sad thing is that we perceive their mistakes with joy, and this does not differ from them!

            No one is happy about mistakes.
            The Russian man is not so low.
            There is a different reaction.
            Dill all over the world screaming that they all know how, and the Russians interfere with their life.
            So we are looking at the result of their "skill".
            And now they are poked with their nose into their own shit mo as arrogant in order to return the patient from heaven to earth.
            1. Lelek
              Lelek 13 November 2015 11: 56
              +3
              Quote: Temples
              There is a different reaction.


              Think surprised? No way.
              IMHO, in the near future, country 404 will not exhibit anything at the EXPO except for the Mad Bee chewing sweets (produced by Roshen factories). bully
              1. Sober
                Sober 13 November 2015 13: 01
                0
                And I think where this madness comes from, sweets with the same m name! The hand does not rise children buy. Well, now, everything is clear! From stung frantica bee!
            2. Oleg14774
              Oleg14774 13 November 2015 13: 02
              +1
              Quote: Temples
              Dill all over the world screaming that they all know how, and the Russians interfere with their life.

              It is dill, but they only scream. They do not dill, but ordinary people. Dill only fight against civilians. This parashenko and egg scent.
            3. pts-m
              pts-m 13 November 2015 13: 13
              -1
              that nie tse won incorrectly translated the explanatory note to the drawings of the letak. They did not design in Russian, and the executors of the order turned out to be Svidomo urine. the result didn’t make the sebe wait. instead of a ballast, they had better carry a crowd of muckers to quickly remove them from the passenger compartment on command ... to the car ... and you can also pass them off as a team of designers.
          2. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 13 November 2015 13: 01
            +1
            Quote: vorobey
            no hell of a mistake ...

            I meant in general, and not specifically. And their war against their own ?! This is not even a mistake.
        2. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 13 November 2015 11: 46
          +6
          All this is very sad. The sad thing is that our people in Ukraine have forgotten how to think and forgot history and family ties.
          - Oleg147741 (2)

          The trouble is that in an already designed airplane, any more or less significant change in the airplane's glider, its weight characteristics, alignment, inevitably drags a chain of further alterations, which are sometimes simply impossible to get rid of, and in the end, completely degraded by Compared to planned, flight performance.
          Well, mocking this, pulling the political aspect here, is simply not clever.
          That in our design bureaus there were no such things? Yes, any number.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. bocsman
            bocsman 13 November 2015 12: 14
            +3
            I suppose that the designers with a normal brain were removed (capable of thinking and therefore disagreeing with the policy of ukrovlast) and left "Svidomo" and here's the result, then the wings are short, then the fuselage.


            Quote: vladimirZ
            That in our design bureaus there were no such things? Yes, any number.


            Certainly it was. But in Le Bourget these "mistakes" did not fly!

            Quote: vladimirZ
            Well, mocking this, dragging the political aspect here, is simply not clever


            And why mock some particular fact if the very existence of such a country is a mockery of common sense !!!
          3. Redman
            Redman 14 November 2015 04: 29
            0
            Well, mocking this, pulling the political aspect here, is simply not clever.
            That in our design bureaus there were no such things? Yes, any number. [/ Quote]
            At the International Airshow we never showed FUFLO! Show facts or do not rustle about the mind ...
            1. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 14 November 2015 05: 19
              -2
              Show facts or do not rustle about the mind ...
              - Redman

              If you are not knowledgeable in the history of our aviation, then you would be silent.
              May recall the death of the death of the Tu-144 at an exhibition in France, at the air show in Le Bourget in 1973.
              And how many other cases, if you recall.
              1. vladimirZ
                vladimirZ 14 November 2015 08: 03
                -1
                An addition to the history of the supersonic passenger aircraft TU-144, in a hurry and race with the Anglo-French Concord aircraft, was never accepted for permanent passenger operation.
                The picture of the events and causes of the disaster in La Bourget in 1973, is clearly clear to date, after the disclosure in recent years of materials and memories.
                On the day of the preceding Tu-144 crash, the Anglo-French Concord performed an impressive performance, during which the plane landed on the runway, quickly braked using thrust reverse, and then accelerated again from the middle of the strip, took off and went to a new circle.
                The Tu-144 was not able to repeat this impressive program: the Tu-144 did not have a thrust reverse and the plane braked like a bombers with a parachute, so the Tu-144 could not take off immediately after landing, because it was first necessary to re-pack the parachute; in addition, the Tu-144 had the worst overall take-off and landing characteristics compared to Concord, including landing speed.
                After a tense discussion at the hotel that evening, key members of the Soviet delegation and the Tu-144 crew decided to try to beat the Concord’s impression by doing the next day on the Tu-144 improvised aerial tricks during this evening discussion, including a steep hill maneuver that and ended in a plane crash.
                Their impromptu decision was approved by a senior management, apparently the Minister of Aviation Industry Peter Dementyev.
                This decision was a flagrant violation of safety standards, aviation regulations, and just common sense. The intended maneuvers were not announced in the official flight plan, but moreover, they were never tested and were not practiced on an airplane.
                The crew switched on the experimental channels of the aircraft control system - obviously with the aim of improving its maneuverability when performing "tricks". The flap of the experimental channels, which was in the cockpit, was closed with a lid and sealed before the aircraft took off from Moscow. In Paris, the crew tore off the seal, removed the cover and turned on the flap toggle switches, which activated the experimental channels of the control system.
                The leadership of the Soviet delegation and the crew of the Tu-144 took an impromptu, impulsively adventurous decision to perform a trick using an unplanned and not previously worked out maneuver, using new control system elements that the pilots did not know in full, and which, as it turned out, worked differently than the pilots expected , and with the characteristics of the stability of the aircraft, which the pilots also did not take into account - all in a hasty effort to compete with Concord.
                The result of all this racing design "sports" epic:
                - The Concord Anglo-French supersonic passenger plane was operated until 2003, and was decommissioned after another plane crash, after 30 years of operation,
                - and our Tu-144 never got out of the design "sores", and did not enter into permanent operation on the country's passenger airlines, although 16 copies were built and colossal budget money was spent on its design and manufacture.

                Added to this, the Concord went through more than 5000 hours of test flights before it was certified for passenger use, making it the most thoroughly tested aircraft in aviation history.
                And our Tu-144 passed less than 800 hours of test flights, before the opening of its passenger operation, - 6 times less than that of Concord.
                There is a lot of information on this situation. Who cares, you can search on the Internet, for example: http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/4150/
        3. katalonec2014
          katalonec2014 13 November 2015 12: 49
          +5
          Here is a photo of this ballast.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. gjv
            gjv 13 November 2015 13: 04
            +1
            Yes, they removed the normal step at the entrance to the cockpit, threw steel sheets and pressed them with a nightstand - one and a half step. On this one and a half step, it’s not surprising to break your legs!
            Whoo where the blunder Kiev designers!
            1. Zavr
              Zavr 15 November 2015 12: 38
              0
              If you were smart, you didn’t carry crap, and you can broadcast such nonsense as you.

              the photo with the plates was taken from the steps of the ladder, so the plates are not "immediately behind the cockpit" but on the right of the access hatch just under the wing and center of mass of the aircraft, and it is not at all clear what it should balance there, especially since the declared weight " ballasta "1300 kg does not correspond to the volume of the slabs that we see in the photo, the volume of 1300 kg of steel is 0,16 cubic meters and this is a meter per meter and 16 cm in height, and then 2.70 m only in width and about 30 cm in height.

              And if you still see that all this nonsense was posted on Twitter by the FORMER director of the plant, then it’s clear where the ears grow from
          3. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 13 November 2015 14: 30
            0
            It seems really true, I honestly doubted at first.
        4. SveTok
          SveTok 13 November 2015 13: 44
          +1
          Yes, this is so because of a handful of crooks like Kalamoysky and Yaroshenko with Patroshenko, all are perceived in brown.
        5. 33 Watcher
          33 Watcher 13 November 2015 14: 35
          0
          And you, did not think? Or maybe they never knew how? Or maybe it’s different? Maybe we weaned them? Supporting their production, statehood ..?
          1. northern
            northern 13 November 2015 15: 49
            +1
            The fact of the matter is that once they knew how! An / 24/26 is a regional UAZ, to which there is no replacement.
        6. Yuri from Volgograd
          Yuri from Volgograd 13 November 2015 17: 06
          +2
          Quote: Oleg147741
          Quote: Air Force Captain
          Who would doubt that this will happen ....

          All this is very sad. The sad thing is that our people in Ukraine have forgotten how to think and forgot history and family ties. The sad thing is that we perceive their mistakes with joy, and this does not differ from them!

          I agree with Oleg.
          They lived in one country and rejoiced for each other. And now there is a lot of foulness on both sides, although there are many relatives and friends outside the cordon.
          I don’t want to mock for all Ukrainians.
      3. meriem1
        meriem1 13 November 2015 11: 02
        15
        Quote: Captain Air Force
        Who would doubt that this will happen ....


        So they have already helped the Americans)))) With OUR engine "having worked" ... NASA is "delighted". Let it be so often !!! Hand.ass is a diagnosis !!! All that works well for them is language ........ In every possible sense.
      4. vorobey
        vorobey 13 November 2015 11: 13
        13
        Quote: Captain Air Force
        Who would doubt that this will happen ....


        as my friend says - do you know what is the worst word in nuclear physics? oops ...

        and here comment Th .... oops ... laughing
      5. BecmepH
        BecmepH 13 November 2015 13: 31
        0
        Who would doubt that,
        But I was thinking ... What is a little more than a ton for a transport plane? I'm not a flyer, but still ... What if a loaded truck rolls into the belly of this plane? Where will the center of gravity go? Will it stay in the same place? And if thousands of boxes or bags are loaded? What, for each box, the center of gravity to calculate and calculate how to lay out these boxes? Something in my head does not fit this arithmetic ... Maybe because I'm not a "flyer"?
        1. gjv
          gjv 13 November 2015 14: 12
          +4
          Quote: BecmepH
          Where will the center of gravity go? ... What if thousands of boxes or bags are loaded? What, for each box, the center of gravity to calculate and calculate how to lay out these boxes? Something in my head does not fit this arithmetic ... Maybe because I'm not a "flyer"?

          This arithmetic is described in a special chapter of the RLE of each type of aircraft. For instance:
          Weight data, centering and loading of the aircraft
          Weight data
          Centering data
          Calculation of the alignment of the aircraft according to the method of moments
          Calculation of aircraft alignment using centering graphs
          or

          Preflight centering calculation
          Instructions for determining the alignment of the aircraft
          as well as in RLE there are sections

          Permissible alignment
          Take-off with extreme front and maximum rear operational centers
          Landing with front and rear operating centers
          hi
      6. northern
        northern 13 November 2015 15: 45
        0
        Quote: Captain Air Force
        Who would doubt that this will happen ....

        Yeah, so disgrace the once beautiful Antonov firm.
        Well, Oleg Konstantinovich did not see all this ...
      7. NordUral
        NordUral 13 November 2015 17: 26
        +1
        It is a sin to mock KB and the plant. This is the famous KB for its aircraft, our common, Soviet. It is only a pity that the fools and scum in the power of the outskirts got, like the whole outskirts. there was one people - there were excellent planes, divided. On the outskirts - full of seams, and look at yourself, also look sickly at civilian and passenger-and-freight aircraft construction. But remember that it was all together.
    2. milann
      milann 13 November 2015 10: 53
      15
      Quote: Vladimir
      Ukrainian An-178 developers made a mistake when calculating the alignment of the aircraft

      Bullshit! The main thing is to paint in yellow-blue, and there at least everything is overgrown with weeds.
      1. vovanpain
        vovanpain 13 November 2015 11: 22
        20
        Quote: milann
        Bullshit! The main thing is to paint in yellow-blue, and there at least everything is overgrown with weeds.

        They dyed their brains in yellow-blue, go. Theism goes off scale, maggots and those are yellow.
        1. SAM 5
          SAM 5 13 November 2015 12: 05
          +2
          They painted yellow and blue brains

          You can not paint in yellow-blue, or in any other that is not there. smile
      2. kil 31
        kil 31 13 November 2015 12: 26
        +3
        Vysoevrete, they wrote on the censor in ecstasy that now there will be a lot of orders trampled. Antonov will be reborn and the rashka will be envious. No one will need new ILs.
        1. Sober
          Sober 13 November 2015 13: 04
          +1
          Yes Yes! It was, it was!
    3. 79807420129
      79807420129 13 November 2015 10: 59
      16
      And why am I not surprised? In a country where in the last 2 years there has been an active killing of their industry, and the killing of brains began even earlier, so territory 404 is the territory of victorious cretinism and that is to say the least.
      1. Andrea
        Andrea 13 November 2015 11: 24
        +2
        Give money, give money! The pursuit of a freebie always leads to the same. You can recall the armored personnel carriers that didn’t even unload. (I don’t remember who: Iraq, Iran, or India what )
        Here is another "zrada". In Russia they say haste is needed when catching fleas. (With diarrhea, it seems, too what)
    4. Cherdak
      Cherdak 13 November 2015 11: 52
      +4
      Quote: *
      flights with an additional ballast weight of 1,32 tons


      Yes concreted tries and all short! (with)
    5. marlin1203
      marlin1203 13 November 2015 12: 28
      +2
      It is possible, as we have seen, to destroy the design school and the largest aircraft industry, which was freed up from the USSR and created by all its forces for free. But to create such a force of Ukraine will not work. And so in the whole industry. So what awaits Ukraine is the unenviable fate of small agrarian East European appendages of the EU (and what is not part of the EU). This is an obvious perspective. Really do not see?
      1. Oman 47
        Oman 47 13 November 2015 15: 21
        +1
        From the Saratov aircraft factory there was only one monument, IL-2 and the stella of Heroes. Sadly ...
        1. AlNikolaich
          AlNikolaich 13 November 2015 16: 13
          +3
          Quote: Oman 47
          From the Saratov aircraft factory there was only one monument, IL-2 and the stella of Heroes. Sadly ...

          Actually, the monument is YAK-3! Otherwise, everything is true! sad
    6. War and Peace
      War and Peace 13 November 2015 12: 29
      +1
      Well, well, if so, then this is definitely a rollback to the past, the degradation of the Ukrainian aviation industry ...
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 13 November 2015 14: 34
        +4
        Well, well, if so, then this is definitely a rollback to the past, the degradation of the Ukrainian aviation industry ...
        - war and peace (7)

        But we, in Russia, have gone far from the degradation of the civil aviation industry?
        All the same to hell. How many civilian aircraft manufacturing plants have bent, how many KB?
        How many workers, cool engineers, who have to be trained for decades, were dispersed to flea markets and artisan workshops.
        In someone else's aviation industry "we saw a straw, but we don't notice a log in ours"?
        You ask any aviation specialist who has worked or is working in our civil aviation industry, what does he represent now? Ruins.
        The liberal economy is not only in Ukraine, but it has done trouble in Russia as well.
        1. 33 Watcher
          33 Watcher 13 November 2015 14: 48
          +1
          You don’t understand, what is it about? Here, after all, the problem is not a mistake. The problem is that no one is going to fix it. Once dragged around the exhibitions in this form, then they want to bet as it is. I understand that recalculation of the airframe, another slipway, a new pilot, they simply won’t pull tests, production is on the verge. But! It can not be exploited! And they pull him for sale. These are human lives!
          I hope that this infa will reach potential customers before they conclude any contracts.
          1. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ 13 November 2015 15: 41
            +4
            You don’t understand, what is it about? Here, after all, the problem is not a mistake. The problem is that no one is going to fix it. ...
            It can not be exploited! ...
            ... These are human lives!

            - Observer 33 (1)

            You ask similar questions to our leaders of the state. With us, which is better?
            Own aircraft practically no longer exist on the background of foreign aviation rubbish, on which they no longer fly in the USA and the West.

            Yes, that there the USA, the West, third countries already, such as Egypt and other Arabs, already refuse them, and here they fly, and carry our citizens.
            "These are human lives!" And who is interested in this in the Government or the President? From a plane crash to a plane crash, they say, they will help, but "things are still there."
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. gjv
      gjv 13 November 2015 12: 53
      0
      Quote: Vladimir
      at least let me design the cart - one hell will get it. And then the plane

      Done steel truck. bully
      However, in the RLE of some liners, as a centering method, the calculation of the amount of fuel for filling in an unspent reserve tank is described. So what is better to carry - steel or fuel? request
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 13 November 2015 13: 02
        +2
        During the USSR, Antonov Design Bureau also had miscalculations with the An-10, cracks formed in the wings, as a result, all aircraft were decommissioned due to a structural miscalculation.
        From Wikipedia:
        "A number of accidents occurred with the An-10 (see below). The aircraft was unreliable in icy conditions, which made it extremely dangerous to fly in winter. In the first two crashes, unexpected sudden" pecks "down occurred during landing, leading to a collision with the ground ...

        No less dangerous was the mistake inherent in the design, which led to two disasters near Voroshilovgrad and Kharkov. As a result of their investigation, it was found that the flexible An-10 wing creates residual stresses on the side member, which gradually destroy it. On the spar, chemical milling was used to reduce weight, which increased the likelihood of creating voltage concentrators. This led to the appearance of fatigue cracks in the spar.
        It was decided to stop in 1973 the operation on the Aeroflot lines of all An-10 aircraft. In the Air Force and in the enterprises of the Ministry of Aviation Industry, airplanes still flew for some time. Then most of the planes were scrapped, some were installed in various cities of the USSR as monuments or simply on playgrounds. In particular, in Kuibyshev in the Yuri Gagarin park and in Voronezh in the Sovetsky district park, the An-10 aircraft were converted into children's cinemas [4], and subsequently in the early 1990s they were dismantled for scrap, in Lviv, the similar Samolet cinema lasted until late 1980s. Until the early 1980s, on the basis of the An-10 there was a children's cinema "Antei" in Taganrog, in the square of Komsomolsky Lane. In the Omsk region in the p / l them. Gastello.
        In Kiev, in the area of ​​Sevastopol Square, there was a similar children's cinema "Orlyonok" [5].

        On the An-12, later released and approved for flight, sensors were installed on the spar; individual An-12s continue to fly at present.

        Aircraft design technologies at the time of the creation of the An-10 did not allow to foresee and eliminate such errors. "
      2. Simple
        Simple 13 November 2015 18: 21
        0
        Quote: gjv
        However, in the RLE of some liners, as a centering method, the calculation of the amount of fuel for filling in an unspent reserve tank is described. So what is better to carry - steel or fuel?



        Will he be able to land after using up the "non-consumable stock"?


        On a Boeing, 747 had to place trim in a wing of depleted uranium in order to avoid wing flutter in a certain speed range.
        So people flew. Then the truth was switched to tungsten.

        Although half a ton of something to manage to place in a strictly defined place. ...
    9. alexbg2
      alexbg2 13 November 2015 15: 08
      +3
      You don’t have to simplify things like that, for example, the MiG-23UB flew all its flight history with a rather weighty centering plate and there was a reason for this. What is the reason for installing it on the An-178, we don’t know, and the labels were hung on the designers, because this is an initial design error is very doubtful, most likely the error accumulated during the movement from the drawings to the finished aircraft. It happens, but what an inexplicable rush to show the plane, although certainly explainable. In any normal country, before the show, they first correct the main emerging flaws, and then present them, but in a normal country, where aviation specialists are responsible for aviation, not chocolate ....
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 13 November 2015 16: 43
        0
        Quote: alexbg2
        most likely the error accumulated during the movement from the drawings to the finished aircraft.

        The fact of the matter is that in the 21st century a complete computer model of an airplane to the propeller is created and all flight modes are simulated, the computer calculates all the loads that the airplane experiences and there should not be such miscalculations. In addition, a fuselage mockup is created for static tests at the stand. If only in Ukraine Antonov Design Bureau still draws planes on Kuhlmanns, then there could well be a mistake.
        1. alexbg2
          alexbg2 13 November 2015 18: 10
          0
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          The fact of the matter is that in the 21st century a complete computer model of an airplane to the propeller is created and all flight modes are simulated, the computer calculates all the loads that the airplane experiences and there should not be such miscalculations. In addition, a fuselage mockup is created for static tests at the stand. If only in Ukraine Antonov Design Bureau still draws planes on Kuhlmanns, then there could well be a mistake.

          The fact of the matter is that the original computer model could be perfect, but during the manufacturing process a re-arrangement took place (not during the design process, but manufacturing) or the technologists said their word, or the materials changed, or the composition of the equipment or the equipment itself, or all together.
          Therefore, the debugging period is always quite long and not a single aircraft was created without modifications.
          In this situation, of course, the joint is very rude and serious, and it seems to me that in a normal country the necessary improvements would be made, up to the rearrangement of the fuselage to shift the center of gravity, the first display would be postponed for a year or two.
        2. gjv
          gjv 13 November 2015 18: 23
          0
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          If only in Ukraine Antonov Design Bureau still draws planes on Kuhlmann

          Kuhlman is not guilty that he is Kuhlman. bully
          Why are you blaming the Jews ?! stop
          From the press releases of SE ANTONOV:
          On August 27, 2014, the Antonov State Enterprise was visited by a delegation of the Delegation of the European Union to Ukraine, headed by Mr. Nicholas Burge, First Advisor to the Representative Office, Head of the Trade and Economics Department.
          During the visit, the guests got acquainted in detail with the capabilities of Antonov in the areas of development, testing and production of aircraft. In particular, they visited the aerodynamic test laboratory, computer design hallstest and aerobatic stands and simulators, assembly workshops of pilot production and the Antonov Serial Plant.

          The mastered and implemented complex of technologies including the full cycle of creating structures from PCM - from the development of technical documentation to their manufacture, testing and maintenance in operation:
          - computer design, modeling and structural analysis of PCM;
          - computer design and simulation
          molding - gluing metal and polymer equipment;
          - technological preparation of production, including the development of technological documentation, technical specifications, work programs for processing on CNC machines and other regulatory documents

          The new generation regional jet An-148 is a competitive product developed at the Antonov State Enterprise with the participation of leading design bureaus, research institutes and aviation enterprises from 15 countries of the world. This is the first aircraft developed in the CIS countries. using computer technology, which allowed to significantly speed up and facilitate the process of testing and putting it into production, as well as to carry out work in wide international cooperation.
          1. gjv
            gjv 13 November 2015 18: 42
            0
            Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
            Design Bureau Antonova


            Third left in the front row - Oleg Konstantinovich Antonov
            1. alexbg2
              alexbg2 13 November 2015 19: 05
              0
              And from this mountain Klementyev the great Russian designer O.K. Antonov made his flights on a glider (like Korolev, Yakovlev and our other designers)
              Unfortunately, I drove all over the mountain, asked the locals, but no one could show from what starts they flew, only speculations.
  2. Altona
    Altona 13 November 2015 10: 46
    14
    Why is that? Is Putin again to blame? recourse
    1. Corporal Valera
      Corporal Valera 13 November 2015 10: 50
      27
      Kohl designer is dumb
      So Putin is to blame!
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 13 November 2015 10: 51
      +5
      Media: Ukrainian developers An-178 made a mistake when calculating the centering of the aircraft
      bags of cement will easily solve this problem! wassat
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 13 November 2015 10: 47
    17
    The cost of haste is great. Especially in aviation technology. I will not rejoice at the mistakes of the Antonov Design Bureau. Losing specialists.
    1. i80186
      i80186 13 November 2015 12: 09
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The cost of haste is great. Especially in aviation technology. I will not rejoice at the mistakes of the Antonov Design Bureau. Losing specialists.

      What kind of haste? This is a modernized An-148 in fact, the development of which began already in 1990, and detailed design in 2001.
  4. v1tz
    v1tz 13 November 2015 10: 48
    11
    Not surprisingly, the country is a mistake there, and it is solid.
  5. oleggun
    oleggun 13 November 2015 10: 49
    -19 qualifying.
    The article is nonsense! All this is Kremlin propaganda)))
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 13 November 2015 11: 35
      12
      Quote: oleggun
      The article is nonsense! All this is Kremlin propaganda)))


      people do not quite understand your banter ... if only they stuck an emoticon .. repeat
      1. Sober
        Sober 13 November 2015 13: 07
        0
        Quote: vorobey
        people do not quite understand your banter ... if only they stuck an emoticon ..

        Is this really humor?
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 13 November 2015 20: 04
          +2
          Quote: Sober
          Quote: vorobey
          people do not quite understand your banter ... if only they stuck an emoticon ..

          Is this really humor?


          Nevertheless, when I joke in this style and without emoticons you understand .. drinks
          1. andj61
            andj61 13 November 2015 20: 21
            0
            Quote: vorobey
            Nevertheless, when I joke in this style, you understand without emoticons

            Of course, try not to understand - immediately with a shovel about face ... crying
            drinks
    2. Cosmos1987
      Cosmos1987 13 November 2015 12: 19
      0
      But I'm wondering, when loading a cargo on an airplane, is the cent of the mass of this cargo and the center of lift always taken into account? and if the CM of the cargo, with its dimensions, does not always coincide with the DSP, what do you say to this: an-178 is a normal machine or really Kremlin propaganda, and there will be an extra opportunity to call the listeners "Kiselev TV" a bad word
      If you follow the link, then the permissible weight distribution in the cargo compartments of the aircraft is described
      http://www.transexpedition.com/info/airsize/
      1. Cosmos1987
        Cosmos1987 13 November 2015 13: 31
        0
        increasing the wingspan of the An-178 by 2 meters, as well as the wing area from 88,5 to 98,6 square meters. m the increase in wing span and area are not interconnected values.
        Maybe it would be more true an increase in the wingspan of the An-178 by 2 meters, which entailed entrainment of its area (wing) from 88,5 to 98,6 square meters. m?
        1. Filxnumx
          Filxnumx 14 November 2015 05: 54
          0
          There is just no direct relationship. an increase in span does not always lead to an increase in area since the latter depends on two values: the span of the wing and the average aerodynamic chord (SAX) of the wing. In terms of the school course of planimetry, this is the length and width of the rectangle. Further I think it is not necessary to explain
  6. Maxom75
    Maxom75 13 November 2015 10: 50
    10
    The loss of personnel of the aviation school was not in vain neither for us, nor for them. (((Break not build, woe liberals in the 90s ruined everything -. ((
  7. MY THOUGHT
    MY THOUGHT 13 November 2015 10: 51
    +2
    kosyachat all!, someone is small, and someone ...
    1. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 13 November 2015 11: 39
      +2
      Too rear centering, this is not "kosyachat" - this is a crime. This is not a fighter - it will not pull out, so there is a direct path to a crash.
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 13 November 2015 14: 56
        0
        yes Yeah. And considering that this is a truck, it is possible that when loading the weight distribution is slightly violated, and ...
  8. prabiz
    prabiz 13 November 2015 10: 51
    +3
    Why am I not surprised ...... request
  9. kursk87
    kursk87 13 November 2015 10: 53
    0
    The Ukrainian authorities have done a lot for the collapse of their defense industry. Although this article may be unreliable
  10. veksha50
    veksha50 13 November 2015 10: 55
    +5
    "this will require serious redesign, the construction of a new prototype flight model, and, in fact, a new test program for the redesigned aircraft "...

    Well, here without any malevolence we can say: hurry up - make people laugh ... A very costly mistake ...

    Honestly, the Antonovites are somewhat offended (not for Ukraine and the Ukrainians, but for the team) - after all, their cars were always one of the best and most reliable ... That's how the Soviet legacy is visibly dragged ...

    PS Again purely cocktails: drive a raw car to international exhibitions for the purpose of future sales ... Well, at least they thought for a while - what if someone signed a contract to buy these cars ??? What `s next ???
    1. Andrea
      Andrea 13 November 2015 12: 02
      +2
      And then, ballast will be introduced as a design feature and advertised as a great change. wassat
    2. fa2998
      fa2998 13 November 2015 12: 56
      +3
      In my opinion, it is not fatal. It is necessary to make an insert into the fuselage behind the pilot's cockpit weighing equal to the ballast. There are many examples in the world when a serial aircraft or ship was altered in this way. The classic example-C-130 "Hercules" flies with an elongated fuselage. True, it was done for the sake of internal volume, and not "jambs" with centering close, well, and the An-178 will benefit, increase by several cubic meters. Well, they don't want to remodel, fly with ballast! hi
    3. Riperbahn
      Riperbahn 13 November 2015 13: 04
      +2
      They - x ... ly, too literally understand the basic principle of trade - Do not deceive - do not sell! They put it into practice by all means.
  11. Wiruz
    Wiruz 13 November 2015 10: 55
    +2
    Tse zrada or paramogu ?! Although what's the difference ... bully
    1. Fregate
      Fregate 13 November 2015 12: 01
      +1
      Quote: Wiruz
      Although what's the difference ...

      ... Petya to Ukraine !! To Heroes Senya !! laughing
  12. Taygerus
    Taygerus 13 November 2015 10: 55
    +2
    and such a design bureau was, everyone lowered it, soon the Wright brothers will reach the level of aircraft construction
    1. goose
      goose 13 November 2015 11: 43
      +3
      Quote: Taygerus
      and such a design bureau was, everyone lowered it, soon the Wright brothers will reach the level of aircraft construction

      And what was the design bureau? 1 works 9 wiping pants, sheer nepotism and nepotism. Because of this unhealthy climate, normal designers lost the desire to create something. My uncle worked there. Once there was a design bureau with a potential that turned into a private commercial shop.
  13. Decathlon
    Decathlon 13 November 2015 10: 56
    +2
    Some Pinocchio with wings! There is no brutality, transporter, after all ... recourse
  14. Engineer
    Engineer 13 November 2015 10: 57
    +3
    Lies. Antonovtsy do everything completely in CAD systems, and there the alignment is considered a couple of mouse clicks. In addition, the plane is hung out on the stat tests, and again everything will be visible there. And the figure itself is 1,32 tons !!!! for the plane is just epic nonsense. The plane is made on the basis of the An-148. At VASO I came across him more than once - a wonderful plane. But the sacrifice of pogosanschiny in the KLA.
    1. Lenin
      Lenin 13 November 2015 11: 10
      +2
      Well, to calculate in CADe you need to decide on the initial data, and then it's up to the machine. Could the engineers make a mistake at the stage of setting the problem? Well, who doesn’t happen to anyone, they didn’t take into account any of the many factors, and he surfaced only during dynamic tests in real operating conditions.
      1. SAM 5
        SAM 5 13 November 2015 11: 44
        +2
        Well, who doesn’t happen to

        And take off now will be often.

        Ukrainian developers of the An-178 made a mistake

        A state that itself has become a mistake will make mistakes everywhere and always.
      2. goose
        goose 13 November 2015 11: 45
        +2
        Quote: Lenin
        Well, to calculate in CADe you need to decide on the initial data, and then it's up to the machine. The engineers could not be mistaken at the stage of setting the problem

        It is not the engineers who made a mistake. Surely a decision was made to save money and not redesign normally, as the engineers suggested, and build on the existing one here - stick there. I think this blunder management cant.
        1. Lenin
          Lenin 13 November 2015 13: 33
          0
          goose I consider this blunder an administrative jamb.

          By the way, it may well be, as I missed, we are in the same country. It’s not professionals at the helm, and sometimes it’s bursting with its significance that it is ready to force any nonsense to fulfill its subordinates for the sake of a higher management. We swam, and when you start to object, you hear in response we don’t hold the slave system forcibly. By the way, this phrase has strengthened everywhere in Russia, especially during the current crisis. hi
      3. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 13 November 2015 12: 29
        +1
        The ballasting place behind the cockpit of the first prototype of the Ukrainian transport aircraft An-178 (ballast removed). Zhuliany (Kiev), 25.08.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX (c) Vitaliy Nesenyuk / spotters.net.ua
    2. Wolverine
      Wolverine 13 November 2015 11: 24
      +4
      In addition, the aircraft is posted on the stat tests



      Centering on the ground and in the air are different things, they said that they were overdone with a wingspan.
    3. TSOOBER
      TSOOBER 13 November 2015 12: 28
      +1
      Oops! And this is so for fun!
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 13 November 2015 15: 02
        +1
        Then they are likely to try to put this ballast under the floor ...
    4. 33 Watcher
      33 Watcher 13 November 2015 15: 03
      0
      However, everything is written there ..? Wing increased ...
  15. Consul-t
    Consul-t 13 November 2015 11: 03
    +1
    Reading this article I saw an advertisement.
    I was looking at the time where to bring children.
    Somehow everything worked out to the place. Let them do trampolines laughing
  16. lopvlad
    lopvlad 13 November 2015 11: 03
    +3
    the decision to increase the wingspan of the An-178 by 2 meters, as well as the wing area from 88,5 to 98,6 square meters. m while maintaining the previous parameters of the already designed fuselage

    if this is so, then the idiocy is astonishing. An airplane glider is developed only as a single design initially, and if you need to change any parts of this airframe, then the airframe is developed anew.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 13 November 2015 11: 12
      +1
      Quote: lopvlad
      An airframe is designed only as a single design initially, and if you need to change any part of this airframe, then the airframe is developed again.

      Do not be so categorical. Here, for example, the famous IL-2 attack aircraft:
      "In connection with the addition of a second person with weapons and armor to the Il-2 aircraft, as well as due to the addition of fuel, the aircraft's alignment has moved back and is currently 32,3%. As a result, the aircraft has become longitudinally unstable. of the Il-2 aircraft, it is required to move the ends of the wing consoles back, which returns the center of the aircraft to the center of the single-seat Il-2 aircraft, ie, up to 28,0%. "
      Taken: http://istorya.pro/shturmovik-il-2-t7.html
  17. STALK1974
    STALK1974 13 November 2015 11: 03
    0
    We, too, in the civil aviation industry, not all "gut", few new ideas, but at least we do not try to sell a crude car like kakly.
  18. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 13 November 2015 11: 04
    +1
    We have a lot of triplets, but who then?
  19. Wolka
    Wolka 13 November 2015 11: 05
    +3
    Today, the country of Ukraine itself is a big historical mistake, what about planes ...
  20. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 13 November 2015 11: 06
    0
    When in recent years they have become accustomed to thinking for them, and even giving money for it, it is not surprising that they themselves have forgotten how to think. On the other hand, why haven't the calculations been rechecked? Or under "Glory Uk" everything is right by itself?
  21. air wolf
    air wolf 13 November 2015 11: 06
    0
    The front centering is immediately visible on the short nose, usually the tail is loaded with ballast for correction, but here the "specialists" from the Square tried their best)))
    1. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 13 November 2015 11: 42
      -2
      Mutually exclusive paragraphs. How are short nose and front centering related? It is the other way around.

      And the front alignment is not so dangerous. But the back ... The back is a crime and a direct path to the crash.
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN 13 November 2015 19: 54
        +2
        Skiff_spb SU Today, 11:42 AM

        How are short nose and front centering related?


        Someone wrote the word "centering" and spun, in fact, the centering of the aircraft has not changed in the sense as it is understood at first glance.
        The center of gravity of the aircraft did not move anywhere, the focus (the point of application of the lifting force) also did not shift. Due to the increase in wing area, the lift applied in focus increased. In fact, the magnitude of the lifting force depends on the speed of the incoming flow and the angle of attack. According to this, by decreasing the angle of attack, the lifting force elementarily decreases. The problem may be that this aircraft livestockcentering margin (it will be more correct). The way out of this situation is easier than it seems, namely by increasing the area of ​​the stabilizer (elevator). This, of course, must be calculated and modeled in all operating modes. It would have been much more serious if there had been extremely rear alignment.
        Since then. hi
    2. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 13 November 2015 11: 42
      -2
      Mutually exclusive paragraphs. How are short nose and front centering related? It is the other way around.

      And the front alignment is not so dangerous. But the back ... The back is a crime and a direct path to the crash.
  22. exalex2
    exalex2 13 November 2015 11: 10
    +5
    It's not about "centering", it's about education. We have the USE still "show itself", do not hesitate .. And in the very near future .. (or the present)?
  23. Baloo
    Baloo 13 November 2015 11: 11
    +2
    Not an aviator, but it seems to me that the elongation of the fuselage in front of the center wing suggests itself, to reduce the engine extension (move backward), it is even better to raise the engines above the wing, if they really are going to any surface (including in desert conditions) in any weather, plant a bird.
    Almost new aircraft.
    1. STALK1974
      STALK1974 13 November 2015 12: 06
      0
      At Antonov Design Bureau, there is such an AN-72 aircraft, it has not proved itself badly.
  24. Das Boot
    Das Boot 13 November 2015 11: 12
    +2
    I do not quite understand the gloating of commentators. However, you can immediately distinguish techies from ordinary xoxlophobes.
  25. sgr291158
    sgr291158 13 November 2015 11: 12
    +1
    Lord, for what they will not undertake where to be, but nakosyachat.
  26. AlexTires
    AlexTires 13 November 2015 11: 12
    +3
    It seems to me alone that it’s time for someone to tie up with the aircraft industry? Aircraft industry and a poor country are not compatible concepts at all. Having a GDP less than Gabon and applying for aircraft is simply ridiculous. In general, it’s a miracle that this plane’s wings still didn’t fall off and at least somehow flies - the Soviet groundwork, of course, is a great thing. But that’s all. Ukraine is time to stop living chimeras from the past and really look at the world.
    Let the beetroots be grown and not think of anything high!
  27. askort154
    askort154 13 November 2015 11: 14
    +6
    Nothing special. Such a problem used to be on aircraft with rear engines.
    - IL-62 performed the first flights with 3 tons of water in the bow, then made an additional fuel tank,
    - Tu-154 is the same problem, an additional tank (expendable) was made in the bow, and when performing training
    flights, "ballast" was always loaded into the front trunk,
    - Yal-42, similarly.
    The problem was reduced by the deviation of the stabilizer on takeoff and landing.
    On the An-178, the layout of the engines is classic, which means an error in the calculations. The problem is solvable, but lengthy and expensive.
  28. AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 13 November 2015 11: 16
    +1
    Machines with a displaced center will supply only for export.
  29. Buffalo
    Buffalo 13 November 2015 11: 16
    +3
    When the chief designers are changed as defense ministers, often guided only by political considerations, when state leaders regard industry as an enemy, the results will not be long in coming ...
    If you are so wrong in calculating the centering, allowing the rear, with such an imbalance, what can I say? - Gone a ride Svidomo!
  30. raliv
    raliv 13 November 2015 11: 16
    +3
    The question immediately arises. Where did the high-class aircraft builders who worked in Antonov get to? I cherish the hope that they are already with us and honestly work on the Russian bug.
  31. solovey
    solovey 13 November 2015 11: 17
    0
    Ukraine and Saudi Arabia signed two memorandums on the promotion of a number of Antonov aircraft models on the Middle East kingdom market, the press service of the concern said (http://vz.ru/news/2015/11/13/777835.html) Here Arabs will be surprised when see ballast plates belay
    1. Das Boot
      Das Boot 13 November 2015 11: 48
      0
      Quote: solovey
      Here Arabs will be surprised when they see ballast plates

      The Chinese were already surprised, apparently. They, like, were considering the prospect of releasing the 178th at home.
      Interestingly, how did the Azerbaijanis react? They first contracted 10 pieces of the 178s for Silkway)
  32. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 13 November 2015 11: 23
    +4
    Born to fly and should not request
  33. ferdiperdozzz
    ferdiperdozzz 13 November 2015 11: 24
    +1
    Yes, all this garbage. To attach a bronze statue to Bandera’s nose - and that's it.
    1. goose
      goose 13 November 2015 11: 49
      0
      There is little bronze, there is one and a half tons. Extremity, like the ship from the movie "Pirates of the Caribbean" will be. You need to make of uranium or gold.
      1. the villain
        the villain 13 November 2015 18: 43
        0
        Quote: goose
        It is necessary to make uranium or gold.

        No, from CZECH REPUBLIC it will be just right fellow
  34. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 13 November 2015 11: 25
    0
    raliv SU Today, 11:16 am New
    The question immediately arises. Where did the high-class aircraft builders who worked in Antonov get to?


    Lustration my friend! Lustration !!!
  35. sergey kuznezov
    sergey kuznezov 13 November 2015 11: 34
    0
    I am not a specialist in aviation technology, but I heard the statement of the great aircraft designer that the plane should be beautiful - then it will fly. Looking at the Ukrainian product, I can say that it resembles a papilac from a famous film.
    1. Andryukha
      Andryukha 13 November 2015 11: 49
      +2
      Beautiful in the eyes of the designer or in the eyes of a non-specialist?
      Beauty in the concept of an engineer is, first of all, the opinion that the sample will work. This opinion arises from practical experience.
      1. Senior manager
        Senior manager 13 November 2015 15: 07
        -1
        Andryukha. I mean beauty - harmony. For aviation, this is very important, like female grace - after all, when we admire a female figure, we do not take into account the "technical" features of the body. So the plane. Somehow I think so.
  36. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 13 November 2015 11: 42
    0
    You can make the nose of an airplane like a hundred pinocchio, or stick it on the back ... like a radar.
  37. Buffalo
    Buffalo 13 November 2015 11: 48
    +2
    From the great to the ridiculous - one step.
    It's a shame for the respected OKB O.K. Antonova!
  38. MT266
    MT266 13 November 2015 11: 50
    0
    easier to dill build a flying aircraft carrier, Obama will be delighted
  39. Turkir
    Turkir 13 November 2015 11: 54
    0
    Isn't it in Antonov's design bureau, after the arrival of "nationalist specialists", the designer died of a heart attack, last year?
  40. Rossiyanin
    Rossiyanin 13 November 2015 11: 54
    +2
    Quote: oleggun
    The article is nonsense! All this is Kremlin propaganda)))

    Maybe you can also say that Putin himself changed his alignment so that he did not become a competitor?
  41. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 13 November 2015 11: 57
    +1
    They wanted to do it with little blood, without major alterations. Although if produced in "digital" this should not be.
  42. uav80
    uav80 13 November 2015 12: 06
    +1
    Actually with ballast ...
  43. uav80
    uav80 13 November 2015 12: 07
    +2
    And without it ..
  44. Navuxonastupil
    Navuxonastupil 13 November 2015 12: 13
    +4
    You are bred, and you are being fired !!!! This whole story has nothing to do with the aircraft industry !!! This is a brilliant operation of the crew of an experimental aircraft for the smuggling of rolled metal from Ukropistan! They loaded iron plates under the guise of ballast, flew to LeBourget, immediately unloaded them, handed them over to France-Cher-Met .. The Post-Soviet ingenuity didn’t let anyone down!
  45. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 13 November 2015 12: 20
    +1
    Ukrainians seconomili on the length of the fuselage in front of the center wing. Even from this angle, the photo shows how the wing is too close to the cockpit. It was necessary to crap, which sticks out in front to increase by 10 meters and it would be all in openwork (flying TV tower).
    pisi:
    And without 1.3 tons of fat on board does not fly.
  46. mag nit
    mag nit 13 November 2015 12: 20
    +1
    They will make a lead bulkhead behind the cockpit. Business then ...
  47. iouris
    iouris 13 November 2015 12: 32
    0
    This is not ballast, but the belongings of crew members. The crew of the transport aircraft is simply obliged to engage in a gesheft. The average weight of the gesheft is 1300 kg. Statistics knows u!
    1. STALK1974
      STALK1974 13 November 2015 12: 47
      0
      I read somewhere how our pilots carried various "nishtyaks" from Afgan in the wings above the flaps. Bortach lowered them when landing, and all the junk fell out.
  48. v.yegorov
    v.yegorov 13 November 2015 12: 49
    0
    Well this is how much such a mistake will result in? "Antonov" and so is interrupted from bread to kvass, and then there is such a podlyana.
  49. smith7
    smith7 13 November 2015 13: 19
    -1
    The plane is ugly. I design it myself, I try to make the detail or unit visually attractive (in addition to functionality). Honestly, it is difficult to make it look beautiful and functional, but if it works out, then the "brainchild" works as it should, and the operating organization will like it :). And in the case of ANom, the engineers were probably loaded with "Svidomo", some of their talents and imaginations were occupied by the Square. In short, the result ... this just came out. Not handsome. And it does not fly very well ... Moreover, it must be said that the engineering school in Ukraine is Soviet, just like ours. And there should not be any special differences in the quality of the developments. But ... The fact is "on the face".
  50. provincial
    provincial 13 November 2015 14: 01
    +1
    You do not know Poroshenko yet! Poroshenko will sell you all, buy, and sell you again, but already more expensive!