K 2020 g Russian military will receive small nuclear power plants

A prototype of a small-sized nuclear power plant on a wheeled or toboggan platform is planned to be created by 2020 g, TASS a message from the general director of the Engineering Company of Innovative Projects, Yury Konyushko.

Low-power mobile nuclear power plant “Object 27” or TPP-3, created in the USSR in 1961 on a heavy platform tank.

“The Minister of Defense gave the command to make a pilot project of low-power nuclear power plants in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. The project is already underway and is at the stage of research and development (R & D), ”said Konyushko.

“Preliminary data on the project should be submitted to the military department by the end of the year,” Konyushko specified. - Then, according to the procedure, we are entering a full-fledged R & D project, which will end with a technical project, this is a year or two. Then we go out on the experimental design work and the manufacture of a prototype. We have to submit it in four to five years, that is, to 2020 year. "

According to him, it is also necessary to prepare mass production for 2020, since now "there is no production base that would serially produce these things."

The general director did not disclose any characteristics of the station under development. He only noted that “the installations will be created according to the modular principle and, depending on the size and power, they will be placed on the MAZ or KamAZ wheeled chassis, and on sleds in the Arctic conditions”.

“At first, such facilities need at least 30 for the regions of the Far North, the Arctic archipelago. They can be delivered to their home base by airplanes or helicopters, ”said Konyushko.

“These autonomous systems are designed for many years of work without the involvement of numerous personnel for maintenance. At the same time, data from such stations will be transmitted to control panels via satellites, ”he added.

Comments

[Vladimyrych]

This is really cool !!!
It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place. If minimization of a nuclear installation really reaches such proportions (sorry for the paradox) then this is just an unprecedented breakthrough.
Of course, there will be a special chic if a fast neutron reactor is put there ... Well, I already dreamed about it ...

[just exp]

for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant, they didn’t do a damn, but it would have been useful in the Crimea.
and about this one, they were already discussing in another forum that the thing is good, but it will be necessary to cover anyway.

[Vladimyrych]

In Crimea, nuclear energy cannot be in any form. What are some international rules.

[just exp]

Well, actually, under the USSR, they even began to build nuclear power plants, I talked about the nuclear power plant where later Kazantip was dancing (it was not completed because the seismic hazard was underestimated and there were still four).
and the one that I had in mind is floating, and is not located on the territory of Crimea.
PS and what is the truth about it? I haven’t heard anything like this, share the information, and from all that I dug up, this is what our plans for the construction of a nuclear power plant in Crimea this year were

[Vladimyrych]

I’m probably still confusing calls at the World Cup of nuclear submarines ... Guilty ...

[arane]

Quote: Vladimir

I’m probably still confusing calls at the World Cup of nuclear submarines ... Guilty ...

Not only boats, all ships and vessels with nuclear power plants are prohibited in the World Cup

[Eugene-Eugene]

Vladimirrych: If the minimization of an atomic installation really reaches such a scale ... then this is simply not a visible breakthrough.

Here we need to clarify - this will be a breakthrough for Russia:
The Curiosity rover (mass 899 kg): "The 100 W power subsystem is based on a radioisotope thermoelectric generator that uses the decay process of plutonium-238 dioxide with a total mass of 4,8 kg as an energy source."

just explo: for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant back;

FNPP "Akademik Lomonosov" is already under construction, it will be ready by 2018, but it will not go to Crimea

[xtur]

> Here you need to clarify - this will be a breakthrough for Russia

it really needs to be clarified here - all developed countries used such official installations in space. There is another fuel, and a way to generate electricity.

And the systems that are discussed in the article are most likely based on ordinary enriched uranium. The minimum size of the reactor is determined by its critical size (and the thickness of the biosecurity required), and it is very small.

only security problems did not give such a start to life.

[proletarian]

If in the 60s these developments would not have been "buried", everything would have worked for a long time, but as they say: If only, anyhow ...., so we hope for the best.

[alex86]

In 61, the mobile NPP "TPP-3" was created, I remember it even in the Children's Encyclopedia.

[Down House]

Quote: xtur

such formal installations all developed countries used in space.

Not all and not quite like that.
In general, there is a difference between comic and earth technologies at the very least today - for example, in the cost of nuclear power plants.

[Izotovp]

The power system for the American rover is based on our Topaz, which was successfully sold during the perestroika times. As well as developments for its development.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Izotovp

The power system for the American rover is based on our Topaz, which was successfully sold during the perestroika times. As well as developments for its development.

The Voyagers launched in 1977 also have isotope power units. And who then "successfully sold" or did the Americans do it themselves?

[Izotovp]

Our reactors were better, and in order not to invest in the development of our own, it turned out to be easier and cheaper to get ours.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Izotovp

Our reactors were better, and in order not to invest in the development of our own, it turned out to be easier and cheaper to get ours.

The fact that we invented the wheel I do not argue is useless. But what about this - American radioisotope generators: NAP-100, SNAP-1A, SNAP-2, SNAP-3, SNAP-3A1, SNAP-7-D, SNAP-7-E, SNAP-8, SNAP-10- A, SNAP-11, SNAP-50, SNAP-9, SNAP-19, SNAP-21, SNAP-23, SNAP-25, SNAP-27, SNAP-29, Stirling Radioisotope Generator (SRG), etc.

[AllXVahhaB]

You can also list the entire considerable range of American rocket engines ... But the fact remains - for their Antares they buy Soviet ones that are in our warehouses!
And what about this?)))

[Bayonet]

Quote: AllXVahhaB

And what about this?)))

No way, calmly. They don’t yell at every corner about what we buy from them. And do not burst with pride.

[Foxmara]

Quote: Bayonet

They don’t yell at every corner about what we buy from them. And do not burst with pride.

As for the latter, this is not true. Burst, but on a completely different occasion.
"- Who shouted" Yarmolnik is a brilliant actor "all night under the windows of the hotel? !!!
...
- Well ... Yarmolnik, probably ... "

Excuse me, who was tearing that they are an exclusive nation and, therefore, a military for all of us?
Well, the fact that they do not tell everyone what they sell to us, so everything can be quite simple - THEY DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS. http://www.langust.ru/review/xeno-us1.shtml Many Americans do not distinguish the Leaning Tower of Pisa from the Eiffel Tower, and many do not know that there are other countries at all))

[dudinets]

we also had similar ones: fed lighthouses and polar stations. but they were rather batteries, they did not have a reactor and a steam generator and turbines with an electric generator. and then a full-fledged nuclear power plant, and moreover, a mobile one. Here is no such and there was no one.

[mcsimcsim]

You wrote in Russian what and why they sold it.
And you distort.

[Asadullah]

"The power supply subsystem with a power of 100 W is based on a radioisotope thermoelectric generator that uses the decay process of plutonium-238 dioxide with a total mass of 4,8 kg as an energy source."

This is not a mini nuclear power plant, but rather a battery. As a device, if I am not mistaken, it was patented in the 40th year! It was used by the USSR and, accordingly, by Russia in different versions.

[Wedmak]

This is not a mini nuclear power plant, but rather a battery

The principle is the same as at nuclear power plants. The decay of plutonium gives heat, they put a thermocouple there, and that's what the electricity is. Few, but it works for years and regardless of the environment.
By the way, not only electricity is taken from the RTG, it also heats the equipment there.

[Aleksandr1959]

For more than 20 years, the theme of direct conversion of nuclear energy into electrical energy has been developed at the Physics and Energy Institute (IPPE) (Obninsk). But, in general, mobile nuclear power plants are the theme of the FEI since the times of the USSR.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

FNPP "Akademik Lomonosov" is already under construction, will be ready by 2018

Sevmash began construction of the first station, called the Academician Lomonosov, back in 2007. According to the latest promises, they are threatening to turn in in September 2016.

[fzr1000]

On Mars, unlike Earth, one does not need to think about the strong radiation safety of the device.

[Bayonet]

Quote: fzr1000

On Mars, unlike Earth, one does not need to think about the strong radiation safety of the device.

Thinking about this is never harmful, especially if we intend to master Mars in the future.

[AllXVahhaB]

Especially when you consider the level of radiation on the surface of Mars ...

[Eugene-Eugene]

It’s not about radiation, but about electrostatic dust. Technologically, this problem has already been solved - to divert buildings below the surface.

[sharp-lad]

Did radar spy satellites made in the USSR work on wood?

[sharp-lad]

Did radar spy satellites made in the USSR work on wood?

[Old old]

Here you need to clarify - this will be a breakthrough for Russia

"RTGs were used in navigational beacons, radio beacons, weather stations and similar equipment installed in areas where, for technical or economic reasons, it is impossible to use other power sources. In particular, in the USSR they were used as power supplies for navigation equipment installed on the coast of the Arctic ocean along the Northern Sea Route. Currently, due to the risk of leakage of radiation and radioactive materials, the practice of installing unattended RTGs in inaccessible places has ceased. "
GOST 18696-90 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Types and general specifications. ” and GOST 20250-83 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Acceptance rules and test methods. "Wikipedia

Do not slander the country under the flag of which you visited the site.

[Susul]

Come on, the USSR launched nuclear power plants from the 70s into space, and the Romashka reactor began to be developed on a par with the Americans, but BES-5 Buk flew into space

But land-based reactors of industrial capacity have not yet been built. Although not a few bold projects were announced, what does the Chrysler TV-8 tank cost?

[Mikhail3]

The Martians for this contraption of Americans force punts to counter. Because the compact nuclear generator is not the slightest problem, today it’s just a laugh, not an achievement. Here is the protection and safety of such a generator, manufacturability, maintainability ... all that the Americans on the Mars rover did not pay any attention to, this is serious.

[mav1971]

Quote: Mikhail3

The Martians for this contraption of Americans force punts to counter. Because the compact nuclear generator is not the slightest problem, today it’s just a laugh, not an achievement. Here is the protection and safety of such a generator, manufacturability, maintainability ... all that the Americans on the Mars rover did not pay any attention to, this is serious.

There are no Americans for Martians. There are earthlings for them. earthmen, they will contrive. :)

[AllXVahhaB]

So this is not a reactor, this is a "battery" ...

[ARS56]

Yet low-power isotopic and powerful nuclear power plants are not quite the same thing. Isotope sources are not a "breakthrough" for Russia. This is a long-passed stage.
The article is about powerful mobile nuclear power plants that produce hundreds of kilowatts of energy, and not the Curiosity level (1 light bulb).

[Foxmara]

Ours in space in this matter were the first, you just are not in the subject. Atomic sources were used on our communication satellites, they did this because the power of the panels was not enough, but the Yankees could not repeat it for a long time until we donated our Yenisei to them for reconstruction.

[Dikson]

C'mon .. Yenisei bent by himself, although he worked after perestroika ..

[mcsimcsim]

Obviously, you are incompetent in the matter of radioisotope sources and their use in the USSR and Russia (in particular, on spacecraft).
Therefore, leave your comment to yourself, and henceforth do not make your heresy publicly visible.

[the most important]

And if the installation is so small, what prevents ships from having two engines ?? It is necessary to the Black Sea - removed in Tartus, left it - set .. and ALL the oceans are open !!! As an option for the Black Sea Fleet.

[sharp-lad]

There is no place on warships.

[Old old]

Not only boats, all ships and vessels with nuclear power plants are prohibited in the World Cup

And does this apply to the Black Sea states?

[AllXVahhaB]

How were they going to build an aircraft carrier with nuclear power plants?

[skrabplus.ru]

It seems like a nuclear submarine fleet is not reported where to go

[Foxmara]

so it may be so, but the World Cup is too small, there to detect submarines - just spit. Therefore, it makes no sense to drive there. Because there are all sorts of Warsaw)

[veksha50]

Quote: just explo

seismic hazard underestimated

Hmm ... But what about the Japanese, who built and are building a nuclear power plant on their seismically dangerous island ???

[kashtak]

Quote: veksha50

Hmm ... But what about the Japanese, who built and are building a nuclear power plant on their seismically dangerous island ???

and you ask the inhabitants of such a Fukushima province what they think about the great prospects of nuclear power plants. they will tell you themselves. colorful and popular. and maybe manually

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

and you ask the inhabitants of such a Fukushima province what they think about the great prospects of nuclear power plants.

And you can ask those who got into an accident about what they think about cars.
Your logic is all about nothing!

[34 region]

So the Americans guaranteed them the safety of nuclear power plants.

[kashtak]

Quote: 34 region

So the Americans guaranteed them the safety of nuclear power plants.

and what are the guarantees?

[Russian Uzbek]

gentleman's word of honor

[Dreama]

Not so much seismic hazard as Chernobyl - general (not only in Crimea)
freezing projects, including due to lack of funding.
My classmate even got an apartment in Shchelkino, but I didn’t have to work.
There was money - they returned to almost all projects, but ...
and in the Crimea, and even in the Lower - the projects were closed.

[Alexxeg73]

In Crimea, the construction of two heat plants is in full swing. stations. So there will be no need for a nuclear power plant.

[aleks 62 next]

.... In Crimea, the construction of two tepel is in full swing. stations. ...

... As for the full speed, you got excited ..... Even I do not observe ....

[aleks 62 next]

..... I'm talking about the nuclear power plant where later Kazantip danced (unfinished because the seismic hazard was underestimated and there was still a couple) ...

.... In addition to seismic hazard, karst cavities are very often found in soils .... When they started to build (in the Crimea) they did not notice, and then it was revealed that there were a lot of underground karst cavities in the construction site .... In general, this is one of the reasons building frosts .... In general, building a nuclear power plant in Crimea is a bad idea .... (both seismic and karsts) .... Crimea is the former bottom of the ancient sea ...

[Patton5]

(unfinished because the seismic hazard was underestimated and there was still a couple).

They didn’t finish it because it crashed in Chernobyl ... there was a tantrum then, and hid the hunchbacked construction site!

[atalef]

Quote: Vladimir

In Crimea, nuclear energy cannot be in any form. Some international rules

There are no rules in this regard, and the Crimea began to build the Crimean nuclear power plant. simply because of the reactor of the same type with Chernobyl. First, the construction site was frozen. and then abandoned.

[i80186]

Quote: atalef

There are no rules in this regard, and the Crimea began to build the Crimean nuclear power plant. simply because of the reactor of the same type with Chernobyl. First, the construction site was frozen. and then abandoned.

No, the Crimean NPP was built under VVER-1000.

[zennon]

Quote: atalef

in the Crimea began to build the Crimean nuclear power plant. simply because of the reactor of the same type with Chernobyl.

Do not talk nonsense! At the Crimean NPP, 2 VVER-1000 reactors (Water-Water Power Reactor) were built. The first was ready by 80%, and the second by 18%. In Chernobyl there are 4 RBMK-1000 reactors (High Power Channel Reactor). Chernobyl of course influenced, but the main thing was that by the end of the 80s, as a result of "perestroika", her mother, the country ran out of money. In 1987, the construction site was closed and the station began to be pulled apart ...

[figwam]

Quote: Vladimir

In Crimea, nuclear energy cannot be in any form. What are some international rules.

But doesn’t it seem to you that it is very dangerous not only in the Crimea, terrorists will only hit these objects, I would not want such installations to be near cities.

[Homo]

Quote: Vladimir

In Crimea, nuclear energy cannot be in any form. What are some international rules.

There are no contracts or rules. Turkey does not allow floating nuclear power plants in the Crimea.

[Izotovp]

Turkey does not give a pass, but to build something in the Crimea or bring something to the World Cup with the atomic can be done internally. Just the point in a ship with a nuclear power plant in this puddle ?!
An interesting story was when our Kuznetsov was distilled from there))))

[Wedmak]

for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant back;

Actually, they’re already doing it. Photo for February 2015.

[just exp]

damn it, I read about it back in 2006. how long.

[Wedmak]

how long.

Designed for a long time. But it seems that reactor vessels are already being taken there. So in a couple of years they will launch.

[officer29]

Quote: just explo

I read about it back in 2006. how long.

The development of floating nuclear power plants began at the end of the 60s of the last century! And the first publications were already in the journals "Science and Life" and "Technology for Youth" already in the 70s. And in the early 80s, when he served as an urgent in the YUGV, at the headquarters of the division I saw posters marked "secret" from a mobile mini-nuclear power plant ... So the idea is not new.

[Temples]

Such a cottage.
In the greenhouse, you can grow bananas!

In fact, this is of course a breakthrough!
That's just the safety you need to provide.
This is not a diesel on wheels. If you crave a little it will not seem.
Terrorists Tueva Hucha divorced.

[kashtak]

Quote: Temples

Such a cottage.
In the greenhouse, you can grow bananas!

and you should put radioactive waste under the bed. at the same time there will be no mosquitoes. I understand the nuclear shield. I understand isotopes in medicine. but I don’t understand nuclear energy anymore. and I’ll never understand such a small one. he who says that a nuclear power plant can be safe, energy from it is cheap, and useful radiation is impudently lying. dot. said the truth can minus.

[Izotovp]

Let's just say that this is not all. Energy is actually much cheaper and greener. It just requires more investment and qualifications.

[kashtak]

Dear, tell this to the residents of Muslumovo. we already have one trace near Chelyabinsk.

[Izotovp]

I know very well about this. And in the vicinity of Kopeisk was more than once. Once again I’m talking about the level of qualification and scientific research. Do you think there is little dirt from coal, including radioactive? Tell this to people who live in coal mines and at coal-fired power plants.

[Dikson]

Well, yes .. At the usual railway crossing leading to the Krasnoyarsk coal-fired power plant (Krasnoyarsk) the fonit is steeper than in two closed cities of Rosatom located nearby ..)) Only no one talks about this .. Twice a day they carry a coal through the crossing to boiler room .. Total business .. And nearby is the largest market in Krasnoyarsk. The Russian-Chinese flea market "Krastets", where carpets, down jackets and other clothes are hung, regularly sprinkled with life-giving ash from a four-pipe coal monster ..)) And may the blessed rodon be with us ..))

[Izotovp]

By the way, I have a nearby Leningrad NPP and everything is fine (pah-pah-pah)))), and the ecology-crazy neighbors-Finns also do not complain about the NPP built by them by our specialists in Soviet times.

[Down House]

Quote: Izotovp

I have near Leningrad NPP and somehow everything is fine

We have here too, even in Moscow itself there are operating reactors and in the vicinity and all the pah-pah-pah 95% of the population of Moscow do not even know about them

[mcsimcsim]

radon (through "a") is a gas.
the ashes of radon - this is very much said.
Obviously, like everything else in your post.

[Dikson]

I wrote "life-giving ashes" .. and not ashes of radon, forgive me .. And the fact that coal is often quite strong "phonite" - I did not come up with it. Measurements in the Krastec area were carried out by no means amateurs, but by experts in monitoring the situation around the closed cities of Rosatom. And, by the way, about such a thing as radon tablets,
You did not hear? )))

[Down House]

Quote: Izotovp

It just requires more investment and qualifications.

Yeah, it is insanely expensive during the construction phase and very cheap to operate, and it is also much safer for nature than some "alarmists" think.

[Bayonet]

Quote: kashtak

and put radioactive waste under your bed

No, not under the bed. Repair of the station and refueling will be carried out in the conditions of the specialized enterprises for the technological servicing of nuclear ships existing in our country, which have the necessary equipment and qualified personnel.
After 40 years of operation, the power unit will be replaced with a new one, while the old one is returned to a specialized technological enterprise for disposal. Both in the process and after the end of the operation of a floating nuclear power plant, no environmentally hazardous substances and materials remain at the site of its operation (the principle of "green lawn")

[kashtak]

Quote: Bayonet

Both in the process and after the end of the operation of the floating APP, no environmentally hazardous substances and materials remain at the site of its operation (the principle of "green lawn")

everything dangerous will go to a nuclear repository. where you need to spend and spend on it. and this is ideal, which is not always the case. Did you find this? we in the Urals, only an overgrown lighthouse with Karachay and Tech is not enough. the problem can and should be solved easier. an atom is needed where it is indispensable. in any case, agree more logical to develop the technique in the direction of saving e \ energy a, not to extensively increase production. with respect.

[sharp-lad]

There, you started using closed-loop fast neutron reactors, so the repositories will soon become a very profitable fuel source for new reactors. And you will be swinging and pumping from these cemeteries!

[asiat_61]

There is such a thing, called; cold thermonuclear fusion. Here, with the help of this thing, any nuclear weapons can be easily utilized. From one cubic meter of rock, you can get such an amount of aluminum that it will be enough for all earthlings for a year. But it is impossible to create a nuclear chemical nuclear weapon. Works in the USSR began in the 60s. then they buried, in the 2000s they tried to renew, and again buried. Question: WHY? There is no answer, as it were.

[Susul]

So this business seems to have been brought to the international level?
See the operating conditions of the reactor such that so far there are no materials for its creation or plasma retention

[mcsimcsim]

The problem is not in the materials. No known material can withstand plasma temperatures in a fusion reactor. For this, the plasma is held by magnetic fields so that it does not come into contact with the material of the walls of the reactor. The problem is that plasma is a substance with a complex structure and behavior; it is extremely difficult (if at all possible) to build adequate mathematical models to describe its behavior and, therefore, to control plasma in a reactor.

[mav1971]

Quote: asiat_61

Question: WHY? There is no answer, as it were.

Patamuchta! :)

But seriously - the technology is unattainable for another couple of decades. This is according to the most optimistic forecasts.

[mcsimcsim]

Why is there an answer?
It is simple (according to your logic): everything around us does not understand anything either in the nuclear forces or in the energy sector in general ...

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

everything dangerous will go to the nuclear repository ....... did you find this?

Have you considered how you will "dispose" of harmful emissions from any coal-fired power plants and the like ?!

[mcsimcsim]

Do you understand what you're talking about?
save on heating (for example) - warm yourself in a 30-degree frost from a 100-watt light bulb, even while in a thermos.
how long will you "warm up" like that?

about "it is more logical to develop" - this is understandable without you, but for some reason it is not very easy to make equipment that consumes units of watts instead of kilowatts.
you can feel the logic of "experts" of the same "level 80" - write more!

[kashtak]

By the way, are you aware that the Lighthouse is still dumping liquid waste into an open cascade?

[Dikson]

What's the truth ?? To be honest - I hardly believe it .. Technology has changed a long time ago ..

[mcsimcsim]

Even if it discards (you are an expert?), The question is what kind of activity is the waste. With low activity, this will practically not affect anything.

In general, one more comment in the format "you know, but they are all dyots". If you live in a world where everybody is dyots, then maybe something is wrong not with the world, but with you?

[srha]

Hee, dear, have you heard about the banana equivalent? You have not eaten bananas, berries, mushrooms, milk, etc. for a long time?

Have you heard about tourism to Bikini Atoll? "In 1954, four years after the tests of the hydrogen bomb on the Bikini Atoll, scientists investigating the one and a half-kilometer crater formed after the explosion found completely different from what they expected to see under water: instead of a lifeless space, large corals 1 m high and a trunk diameter of about 30 cm, a lot of fish swam - the underwater ecosystem was completely restored. " http://www.clubcrocodile.ru/tours/tour_368

And if scientifically, then they would take and calculate the natural radioactivity of the earth's crust and the contribution to it artificial, as well as their general dynamics over 50 years.

And in general, maybe you don’t know, but - the faster and more radioactive elements burn out in reactors, the less they remain on Earth, the cleaner the Earth becomes in a radioactive sense.

By the way, do not think what kind of pollution I am. I am for a reasonable, that is, an analyzed rather than an exalted application.

By the way, 2, they say that the technology of mining and burning coal emits more radioactive elements into the air than the entire nuclear power industry - I will not say exactly how true this is. But, for example, about Urtuy coals: "When burning complex coals of the 3rd grade, the resulting ash and slag have an activity in which their use is unacceptable for construction purposes [6].
Until 1995, 750 thousand tons of 3rd grade coal were stockpiled in special dumps with cover of their surface with inert material from overburden. When burning this coal, more than 100 thousand tons of ash and slag could be formed. Such material is classified as low radioactive waste requiring special storage (disposal) conditions". http://www.proatom.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=4326

Do you know how much coal you need to spend to produce 1 kW * hour of solar panels? Three times more than if produced directly from coal. That is why their electricity is more expensive, which is why they are mainly used in developed countries, which have the ability to attribute increased costs to underdeveloped ones.

And more practice. One lady, in a blog of my provincial periodical, boasted of how economical she was, that her husband put solar panels in her mansion and now she does not pay for electric energy. True, after all, they still found out that they spent the installation amount allowing them to pay for the consumed electric energy two hundred years ahead, not counting the current operating costs. And there, after all, there is a battery replacement every 10 years, and burning electronics, and hailstones striking these batteries once every ten years ...

[Dikson]

Coal fonit so that environmentalists just nervously smoke aside ..

[Dikson]

I can add one more horror story for fans of "ecology" - about ten years ago, Canadians proved that fire-prevention impregnations of wooden structures, house panels and wonderful "foreign advanced technologies" cause, for example, "such a problem - polar bears become hermaphrodites .. This is such a" renovation " .. And we still wonder where our native cockroaches left their apartments, and why people started dying of cancer at the age of 27 ..

[Foxmara]

Yeah, there are no problems from coal stations)) much more environmentally friendly, and there is no radioactive cable from the pipe, and there is nothing like this in the dumps. Unless gas, so you will not drag it everywhere.

[mcsimcsim]

The "depth" of the analysis and the "flawlessness" of handling "facts" are simply amazing. In a few sentences to smash entire institutes and eminent scientists to smithereens - you are no less than a genius (and maybe even more ...).

[Now we are free]

Quote: Wedmak

Actually, they’re already doing it. Photo for February 2015.

Greetings Denis
In the photo "Lomonosov" as I understand it?
Not information at what stage of readiness of the PAES? IN SITUATIONS SIMILAR CRIMEAN IT NEEDS MUCH and now there is a need for it ...

[Wedmak]

In the photo "Lomonosov" as I understand it?

He is. The information is of course, but extremely scarce. They say they brought the reactor shells, they will mount it. So the power structures are ready, and in fact the floating part itself too.
Further, as you understand, equipment saturation and testing. That's how long they last a question. The project is still the first in the world.

[Maxom75]

They did it and this year it is launched. The base location of the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, in addition, another one is planned for Kamchatka.

[St Petrov]

done. almost. finish off.

http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/67065/

[arane]

Quote: just EXPL

for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant, they didn’t do a damn, but it would have been useful in the Crimea.
and about this one, they were already discussing in another forum that the thing is good, but it will be necessary to cover anyway.

Just floating makes it incredibly simpler. The main problem mobile on wheels is the cooling of the reactor, there is water around the floating.

[atalef]

Quote: arane

Quote: just EXPL

for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant, they didn’t do a damn, but it would have been useful in the Crimea.
and about this one, they were already discussing in another forum that the thing is good, but it will be necessary to cover anyway.

Just floating makes it incredibly simpler. The main problem mobile on wheels is the cooling of the reactor, there is water around the floating.

Yes, Vyacheslav. this and the whole question (so I'm pretty sure that this idea is not feasible)
How to cool? that is, either the nuclear power plant will be very low-power (and then a diesel engine is both simpler and safer) - or? And how will the reactor dampen when moving?
In my understanding - the game is not worth the candle.
But let's see. what will come out.
True, when I read about autonomy and control via satellite, I understand. RAVE.

[i80186]

Quote: atalef

How to cool?

But what is cooled in, say, a nuclear submarine? Just don’t say that sea water is scooped up. By the way, our reactors even flew into space, well, if you're not in the know.

[atalef]

Quote: i80186

But what is cooled in, say, a nuclear submarine?

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

Quote: i80186

Just don’t say that sea water is scooped

Not . what do you . carry with them in bottles

Quote: i80186

By the way, our reactors even flew into space, well, if you're not in the know

I then know, and? YOU READ ABOUT THESE REACTORS (IF YOU UNDERSTAND) especially about energy converters and power output.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AF%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%80%
D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%
D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D
1%82%D0%B0%D1%85

[i80186]

Quote: atalef

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

No, actually. For example, think about how the processor in your computer dissipates 50 watts with a fan and a hefty aluminum radiator, and the soldering iron does the same without it. Thermodynamics - it is, yes.

[atalef]

Quote: i80186

Quote: atalef

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

No, actually. .

I did not doubt it

Quote: i80186

For example, think about how the processor in your computer dissipates 50 watts using a fan and a hefty aluminum radiator, and a soldering iron does the same without it.

A head that would be in it

Quote: i80186

Thermodynamics - she is, yes

Victim of the exam

[Dikson]

Just a face-palm .. (I'm talking about a discussion about cooling circuits ..) I'll put a plus sign for you, can I? And yet, be afraid of Gridasov! This is a very spiritualized person with innovative ideas, living outside of our time ... If you imagine the n-dimensional reality in the form of a book, then we will be on the first page, and he will be somewhere on the 15th ..

[i80186]

Quote: atalef

Victim of the exam

I graduated from high school in 95, then there was no EG.
Well, here I’ll explain specifically, once again, to a person from a developed country. You see, if the coolant is metallic and the temperature of the working area is 800 degrees, then you can cool it with air, or maybe even without convection, but only with radiation. Such things, dear victim of Americanism in education.
If you are not impressed with the submarines, and from space you are as far away as from thermodynamics. Maybe then Tu-95LAL is suitable for you. Imagine, back in the furry 61, they rolled the reactor on an airplane, and there was no small lake near by.
Read here at your leisure.
http://topwar.ru/22458-sovetskie-proekty-atomoletov.html

[Dikson]

And what is the area of ​​the infected territory over which this board flew?

[arane]

Quote: i80186

Quote: atalef

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

No, actually. For example, think about how the processor in your computer dissipates 50 watts with a fan and a hefty aluminum radiator, and the soldering iron does the same without it. Thermodynamics - it is, yes.

Let's not insert a cooler into the boat. Good

Guess why nuclear submarines cannot lie down on the ground?

[sharp-lad]

And why their route can be tracked (with a known time lag).

[arane]

Quote: sharp-lad

And why their route can be tracked (with a known time lag).

Yes, this is the main parameter of the trace!

[i80186]

Quote: arane

Yes, this is the main parameter of the trace!

Yeah, exactly from a hundred meter depths, flows of hot water rise. And Americans built SOSUS for fun, well, yes. All right.

[arane]

Quote: i80186

Quote: arane

Yes, this is the main parameter of the trace!

Yeah, exactly from a hundred meter depths, flows of hot water rise. And Americans built SOSUS for fun, well, yes. All right.

What does the sausage have to do with it. The acoustic field of the ship has nothing to do with the wake track

[archi.sailor]

it's all about cooling, and therefore do not go to bed))))

[Dikson]

Well, so that the gills do not clog with silt? In general, it’s harmful to them - like sharks, while moving, breathes ..)

[arane]

Quote: archi.sailor

it's all about cooling, and therefore do not go to bed))))

absolutely right. Heat exchangers below.

[i80186]

Quote: arane

Guess why nuclear submarines cannot lie down on the ground?

Not well, not a very good example with a boat, it’s stupid not to use water when you are in it. But still, guess what will happen if the accident, and the boat does lie on the ground, and the reactor, for any reason, will not be drowned out?

[arane]

Quote: i80186

Quote: arane

Guess why nuclear submarines cannot lie down on the ground?

Not well, not a very good example with a boat, it’s stupid not to use water when you are in it. But still, guess what will happen if the accident, and the boat does lie on the ground, and the reactor, for any reason, will not be drowned out?

This will not happen. But if everything is discarded, then the reactor core will melt. The increase in pressure inside the core, then a thermal explosion. T e the reactor lid will vomit fuck, and then radioactive infection. Read the accident at Chazhma.

[Susul]

LOL, but like ordinary boats can lay on the ground ?!

[Dikson]

Yes Easy..
Who will forbid them?
the main thing is that normal people stood on the wheels ... With iron bells .. or titanium.))

[arane]

Quote: i80186

Quote: atalef

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

No, actually. For example, think about how the processor in your computer dissipates 50 watts with a fan and a hefty aluminum radiator, and the soldering iron does the same without it. Thermodynamics - it is, yes.

Damn, and you yourself can draw a conclusion from your words? This is the physics of the 8 class of Soviet high school.
Compare the radiator with a soldering iron. They have opposite destinations!

And what does the reactor and soldering iron have to do with it?
Want a primitive nuclear power plant on your fingers?
1. Samovar, in which there is very hot water and under great pressure, so that it does not turn into steam.
2. This water through a closed pipe circulates through the boiler. In the boiler, the water heats quickly, from the pipe from the samovar, and turns into superheated steam that blows on the propeller, the propeller spins and rotates the generator, which generates current.
3. Further, this steam enters the moonshine. The moonshine still is cooled with cold water (as with moonshine). There, this steam condenses and flows back into the boiler as water.

And all this crap requires COOLING.

[i80186]

Quote: arane

1. Samovar, in which there is very hot water and under great pressure, so that it does not turn into steam.
2. This water through a closed pipe circulates through the boiler. In the boiler, the water heats quickly, from the pipe from the samovar, and turns into superheated steam that blows on the propeller, the propeller spins and rotates the generator, which generates current.
3. Further, this steam enters the moonshine. The moonshine still is cooled with cold water (as with moonshine). There, this steam condenses and flows back into the boiler as water.

But instead of water, for example, there may be lead. And instead of steam and a turbogenerator, a thermoelectric converter. Can you imagine?
About "cooling", about "does not turn into steam", I will not even speak.

[i80186]

Yes, I completely forgot about MHD generators, you can use them instead of a turbogenerator, well, if the coolant is metal or gas.

[arane]

This is a different physical principle. I am not strong in it. No comments.
Yes, there is no lead, but sodium, for example, is quite

[i80186]

Quote: arane

Yes, there is no lead, but sodium, for example, is quite

Nuclear submarine of project 705 "Lyra" - lead-bismuth coolant.

[mcsimcsim]

Hmm ... physics is not your thing, definitely ... the more thermodynamics, with all your fun and sarcasm (but look stupid all the more).
Just ask yourself a question - does the processor in the computer also heat up to 230-270 degrees Celsius, like a soldering iron?

[i80186]

Quote: mcsimcsim

Hmm ... physics is not your thing, definitely ... the more thermodynamics, with all your fun and sarcasm (but look stupid all the more).
Just ask yourself a question - does the processor in the computer also heat up to 230-270 degrees Celsius, like a soldering iron?

Well, is it possible to put an air heat exchanger with forced ventilation and an operating temperature of 800 degrees on a mobile reactor? What will be its area if you want to dissipate say 15MW (3-5MW electric power)? For example, a tank engine sows 1 MW into the air, you saw its dimensions, the temperature is 120 degrees, and how much does it take to dissipate 15 MW into the atmosphere at 800 degrees?
Here it sows 3MW, and at the same time there is still fuel, and two engines with engine drivers.
Moreover, at a temperature of 800 degrees, this can be done even in a vacuum, only due to radiation, without air / water / without everything.

[Bayonet]

Quote: atalef

I then know, and? YOU READ ABOUT THESE REACTORS (IF YOU UNDERSTAND)

Again they throw you cons! Gave a link in vain - they don’t understand!

[sharp-lad]

It seems to me that this power unit will be in the form of a very large radioisotope battery.
Power was about 3 kilowatts.
Technologies of the 70s, and now 2015, they probably came up with something to increase the conversion of thermal energy into electrical energy. Nano technology has appeared!

[Bayonet]

Quote: sharp-lad

It seems to me that this power unit will be in the form of a very large radioisotope battery.

There was an experimental self-propelled power plant "Romashka" back in the early 60s. There, on the reactor, there was a thermoelectric converter, that is, no turbines and other related mechanics. True, the power was small.

[arane]

Well, firstly, Atalef is one hundred percent right, and minus it, you show your ignorance of the topic.
Firstly, you will laugh, but on submarines they really "scoop out", as well as on nuclear surface ships.
Secondly, controlling the reactor through satellites and other radio channels is possible, but it surely smells, because someday the signal will not pass stupidly, and this could be for a million reasons. These operators are needed for any.

As for the reactors in spacecraft, I can only speculate, because I am not competent in this matter.
The temperature in space is considered to be -273 degrees Celsius. This is conditional and not entirely correct, since nothing can have a temperature. And if there is no environment, then there is nothing to heat up, therefore, the heat will simply fly away into the abyss of time and the universe! There you have it. Although on this point I can listen to those who are in the subject. Since these are my thoughts for the last five minutes.

A mobile ....... I can assume that only if there are rivers, lakes, seas and oceans this thing will be operational

[sharp-lad]

Through satellites control, operators and a few on-site attendants.

[Dikson]

Well, for example, I know the city of Energodar (although there it can already be called differently in the open-air), so there one of the cooling circuits generally depicts a city fountain ..)) and nothing, people like it ..)))

[abrakadabre]

Regarding the cooling of satellites and their power plants. If on fingers, then in space this is a very big problem. Which, in a very considerable degree, so far limits the power of atomic batteries.
Due to the lack of a heat transfer medium, the dissipation of spurious heat is possible only by radiation. No heat transfer outside by convection, blowing ...
And this is actually a thermos. In the flask of an ordinary household thermos, there is also a vacuum between the walls. And the heat from the inner part of the bulb to the outside is transmitted only through thermal radiation to the outer part (if you do not consider heat loss through the neck with a stopper).

In general, cooling systems for satellites are extremely cumbersome and inefficient for objective reasons compared to similar cooling systems on Earth.
If not for this, then on the same lunar or Martian ship one could put quite a miniature nuclear reactor for tens or hundreds of kW. And absolutely not think about the energy efficiency of the equipment. For spaceships, the problem of cooling a nuclear power plant is even higher than the problem of radiation protection.

[Susul]

If there is no environment, then there is nothing to cool, so heat dissipation only through infrared radiation.

[Down House]

Quote: arane

This is conditional and not entirely correct, since nothing can have a temperature.

There is nothing - there is radiation and energy, and energy and temperature are "practically" the same thing.

[bars876]

Actually, they also cool it with sea water, so an atomic boat cannot lie on the ground .... Study the question before writing ... It concerns minuscule people as well ...

[shans2]

haha, already in the 60s there was TES-3, and in the 80s there were two more advanced TES-7,8, which were cut a year after Chernobyl, having only time to experience a year ...

[33 Watcher]

Of course, of course nonsense !!! This is not the Israelites do. Now, if they are, then yes, and so nonsense.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Observer 33

Of course, of course nonsense !!! This is not the Israelites do. Now, if they are, then yes, and so nonsense.

Actually, the laws of physics are the same for everyone.

[Down House]

Quote: Bayonet

Actually, the laws of physics are the same for everyone

Actually, they are different in the scale of the universe, but this does not apply to the discussion under discussion.

[xtur]

>? And how will the reactor cool down when moving?

a drowned reactor consumes approximately 5% of the rated power. In movement, the reactor will most likely be in a drowned state.

> True, when I read about autonomy and control via satellite, I understand. RAVE.

if the signal delays can provide up to 100 milliseconds, this is still gone. But half a second delay, as is often the case with satellite connections, can be critical in an emergency

[atalef]

Quote: xtur

if the signal delays can provide up to 100 milliseconds, this is still gone. But half a second delay, as is often the case with satellite connections, can be critical in an emergency

Milliseconds just do not play any role, since no service personnel respond at such a speed.
I just have such a question, so well, for example
The safety valve flew on the second circuit of the steam generator.
A steam temperature of 575 degrees at 275 atmospheres (pressure) is the absolutely normal mode of operation of steam generators in a power plant.
A sharp drop in pressure, a drop in turbine power and a frequency cut-off (first load). then emergency shutdown of the turbine with emergency steam discharge. (which happens because the valve was on), let's hope that TSN had time to work and that was enough to shut down the reactor in an emergency.
But then, under the flashes of the northern lights and a 40-degree frost, the dispatcher will watch via satellite how the remnants of the water first tear the pipes in the secondary circuit (I mean freezing water). and then primary with the flow of highly radioactive water.
But there is a plus.
If her deer get drunk, but on a polar night they can illuminate the road with their eyes instead of headlights.

[arane]

Alexander, a small correction to your Apocalypse scenario! The reactor is not an internal combustion engine! You can’t turn it off with a key and go to sleep. Even when the reactor AZ is triggered, the installation requires a prolonged cooling of the core. Three days a minimum. In general, the temperature and pressure of the primary circuit are constantly monitored while the reactor is charged. IS ALWAYS!

T e in this case, when the reactor is uncontrolled, under the flashes of the northern lights we get a thermal explosion, t mini Chernobyl! Roughly speaking, the samovar will burst due to pressure, the fuel rods will melt and all this will fly apart, and will appear in the north of the Chukopadr

[Down House]

Quote: arane

You can’t turn it off with a key and go to sleep.

So be it. And how is it "jammed" on the nuclear submarine in case of accidents?

[arane]

It depends on the accident. In the case of the death of the ship, automatic protection is reset, if possible, compensating gratings are lowered. Next, the ship is sinking. There is a lot of water, it will cool. In other cases, almost as usual. Yes, if it’s really interesting, read
http://sources.ruzhany.info/022.html

very christian accident

[Dikson]

if it's very simple - graphite .. old machines .. They control the reaction with the help of graphite rods introduced into the core, If a graphite rod breaks, a situation arises, in the common people called a "goat" ... And if the rod is not made to move, you will have a reactor going into spacing and fungus in the sky. At one time in the USSR (I know for sure) there was a man in the atomic fleet who literally climbed into hot zones with his bare hands, eliminated problems, grabbed monstrous doses that were fatal for an ordinary person, then went to the sea on a special plane and washed everything to hell in two weeks .. This is not a fairy tale, believe me .. Physiology is like that ... And you say "indigo children", superman and iron man .. - pathetic shniki ...))

[sharp-lad]

The article says: without numerous attendants, which means having at least management and maintenance personnel!

[Dikson]

As for the headlights, I won’t tell you, but some of my friends saw absolutely bald polar bears on a polar night near the New Earth at one time .. Impressions were enough for life ..

[xtur]

> Here milliseconds definitely do not play any role, because none of the service personnel react at such a speed.

thermal explosion, under favorable conditions for this explosion, it can occur in 10 ^ -5 seconds. So that it all depends on the circumstances

But actually, I talked about the fact that half a second delay for an emergency is critical. And half a second is 500 milliseconds

[noor]

Supercriticism in a steam generator?

[Susul]

Well, what are you exaggerating so ?!
it is clear that the main automation will cost at the station itself, a satellite is needed only for monitoring parameters and holding consultations with the operator.
in two seconds you and the person will not have time to react. Yes, and such a quick change of parameters for a thermodynamic system will indicate a critical error of the equipment itself. Opening a safety valve, or rupturing a pipeline or turbine, local automation should immediately respond

[frolog]

Quote: atalef

How to cool? that is, either the nuclear power plant will be very low-power (and then a diesel engine is both simpler and safer) - or? And how will the reactor dampen when moving?

In the parking lot - two pipes from the second circuit to the river. And in the stowed position to jam. I understand that such machines are needed for a more or less long and / or isolated base. So that instead of several hundred tons of fuel, bring one such thing a year, and that’s it.

[Bayonet]

Quote: atalef

True, when I read about autonomy and control via satellite, I understand. RAVE.

Hello Sasha! It's like at our place of work, Moscow people say: “Your transmitters are not serviced!”, But we have not a day without problems! Poke their snout into this "out of service"!

[atalef]

Quote: Bayonet

Quote: atalef

True, when I read about autonomy and control via satellite, I understand. RAVE.

Hello Sasha! It's like at our place of work, Moscow people say: “Your transmitters are not serviced!”, But we have not a day without problems! Poke their snout into this "out of service"!

Or as we have ABB Sache (Italian) - 24 kV gas-insulated cells, it seems like the same thing was stated that they did not require service, but there was a malfunction for a malfunction.
Simens and ABB (Switzerland) at 160 \ 400kV are certainly aerobatics, but Alshtom (France) is worse than any public woman.
And everything seems to be declared - as UNMENUALABLE (by whom, damn it, if only they are unattended)

[Old old]

... control via satellite - I understand. RAVE

What is the difference between controlling via a satellite - a drone or an RTG?

[Dikson]

The RTGs still required specific human hands for periodic maintenance (after finishing the work, be sure to treat it with alcohol !!!) .. Well, before the start of the service, the glass "sewed" inside was practiced ... Not everyone helped, really ..

[KazaK Bo]

just exp
for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant, they didn’t do a damn, but it would have been useful in the Crimea.

Do it done! The only question is - who and how will protect this object ... primarily from terrorist attacks ... or simply - from shelling with a 120 mm mortar or howitzer .... not to mention high-precision missile defense ... This is what zone security do you need? In the same Arctic, they wanted to do their work offline ... without people ... And then they thought and ... scratched their dust !!!!

[veksha50]

Quote: just explo

good thing, but covered in any need

Security is expensive ... It can be seen that this is just a stumbling block ...

[ver_]

... already done, but it turned out to be huge ...

[g1v2]

A floating nuclear power plant is being built in full, no one has beaten it. On Sun regularly news about its construction appear.

[34 region]

In my opinion, in the USSR they were going to make a floating power station. Type for the north.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Region 34

In my opinion, in the USSR they were going to make a floating power station. Type for the north.

There was a case, then they refused.

[Homo]

Quote: just explo

for peaceful 10 years ago they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant

See the news. It is being completed already. Will be ready soon.

[ARES623]

Quote: just explo

a good thing, but sheltered for any need.

Adzhimushkay, Balaklava - there are a lot of places where you can place such a thing. Another question is why, if there is gas and you can carefully build TPPs without nuclear risk.

[Wedmak]

it is possible to carefully build thermal power plants without nuclear risk.

Where to get fuel from? Again, ship in thousands of tons?

[Dreama]

It might come in handy, maybe
But who would (the Turks) let her go there?
... and the first small projects (including floating ones) already have at least
twenty five.

[Irkutian]

Finish already. Academician Lomonosov called.

[alekc75]

made and not one - in the USSR, two floating made for the north

[Down House]

Quote: just explo

for peaceful 10 years ago, they wanted to make a floating nuclear power plant back;

Yes.
By the way, mini nuclear power plants already exist, Toshiba 4S (Japan) Hyperion (USA) and the only operating "Elena" (Russia) - all that remains is to finalize and put on a chassis.
And I think if it were not for the "democratic reforms" they would have put them on a chassis long ago, there is a need for this.
PS. While writing, I remembered about the experimental "TPP-3 - transportable nuclear power plant" -1961 and the promising "Pamir" - a mobile nuclear power plant.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Vladimir

Already read somewhere. This is really cool !!!

Having such sources of energy, you can create powerful mobile radars or EW stations.

[just exp]

even before the power sources for laser weapons were predicted. in theory it is possible.

[i80186]

Quote: just explo

even before the power sources for laser weapons were predicted. in theory it is possible.

Laser is not laser, but a megawatt magnetron with normal duty cycle and duration can be used in every way. Radars cried on airplanes, about drones even nothing to say.

[svd-xnumx]

Having such sources of energy, you can create powerful mobile radars or EW stations.

And you can attach a drill and dig a tunnel into the Pentagon or the White House.

[kashtak]

yes, we’ll start tomorrow . only you can get into the yellow house, not white.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Having such sources of energy, you can create powerful mobile radars or EW stations

What would jam so jam! So that not a single phone blinks across the country, not a single receiver or TV! But the enemy will not be sweet !!!

[st25310]

Not really fighting lasers on the way.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place.

Everything is clear with the military. And how it will be applied in peaceful areas - there are many questions. For example, what about anti-terrorism protection? If you leave the station without good protection, then it can simply be blown up, and this, if not an atomic explosion, but will definitely pull on a dirty bomb. And if there will be many such stations?

[Maxom75]

So do la mine defense, will stand on the territory of military camps and accordingly protected. They make for the far north, there are few people there.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

I’m sure that this is not science fiction, but reality! Kulibins in Russia did not go extinct and see the drawings for a long time gathering dust in the table (in Khrushchev) ... Well, give
The God! The right thing for our vast territories ...

[kashtak]

Quote: MIKHAN

Well give
The God! The right thing for our vast territories ...

Take a trip to Chernobyl to admire the vast territory of once fertile land where you can’t live right now. and God help you, or rather peace to your home.

[Xsanchez]

Who told you that Polesie is fertile land? It is the largest swamp in Europe, and the most sparsely populated.

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

Take a trip to Chernobyl to admire vast territories

And people damn road accidents die, and much more than from radiation, now you will be against cars too ?!

[mav1971]

Quote: kashtak

Quote: MIKHAN

Well give
The God! The right thing for our vast territories ...

Take a trip to Chernobyl to admire the vast territory of once fertile land where you can’t live right now. and God help you, or rather peace to your home.

Only now in the Chernobyl region has divorced so much every beast. that even European lynxes. extinct 70 years ago - appeared in camera traps.

Nature flourished there.

And yes, there are swamps all around.

[Dikson]

And thank God..! let the beast get better bred than inadequate people .. In one of the Rubens in a picture in the center of Europe, people of a lion try to stab with sticks with tips .. And it seems like before the bears went across Europe .. And here, the rats ... let them breed! )))

[Tujh]

It will be enough to locate such "nuclear power plants" in the location of military units, of which we have a lot in the country, and to draw them into the general energy system of the country. The issue with protection will be removed and capacities for peaceful purposes will be freed.

[atalef]

Quote: Tujh

It will be enough to locate such "nuclear power plants" in the location of military units, of which we have a lot in the country, and to draw them into the general energy system of the country

And if you bring power lines (Unified Energy System) to these areas, then why the heck do they put nuclear power plants there?

Quote: Tujh

The security issue will be lifted and capacity for peaceful purposes will be freed.

[xtur]

> It will be enough to arrange such "AESki" in the location of military units

... and protection from Permyakovs who regularly meet in the army?

Do not underestimate the difficulty and importance of the physical protection of such energy sources.

[Dikson]

Do you know how many military units, and by the way, not simple ones, are guarding nuclear power plants ?! There is protection in several echelons .. but then what will happen? A pair of sentries under the fungus?

[veksha50]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

For example, what about anti-terrorism protection?

Just as with a conventional nuclear power plant ... This article just bypassed this question by default ...

[meriem1]

Quote: Vladimir

This is really cool !!!
It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place. If minimization of a nuclear installation really reaches such proportions (sorry for the paradox) then this is just an unprecedented breakthrough.
Of course, there will be a special chic if a fast neutron reactor is put there ... Well, I already dreamed about it ...

And it’s not bad to dream !!!! Tsiolkovsky dreamed and here !!!!

[Irokez]

Well, not so much a breakthrough as miniaturization. For example, the spent block of a nuclear submarine that was written off is cut out with a compartment and adjusted to the point of need by water, and you can give electricity. Than to utilize, it is possible to use to the maximum in the same far north and on new islands where right now troops are formed and bases.

[Wedmak]

Than to utilize, it is possible to use to the maximum

So it is not only that it is cut and transported, it also needs to be filled with fuel and connected to the generating capacities accordingly. And this is actually creating a new system every time.

[Dikson]

But why? After all, the system has already been created? The nuclear submarines pass PPRs, there are service vessels, spent fuel storage bases, Reactors already run-in .. What's the problem? Weld the pontoons on the shipyard? Build one ice class supply ship for transporting and reloading fuel in an already developed scheme? Is it really cheaper to create the whole structure of service and production from scratch?

[atalef]

Quote: Irokez

For example, the spent block of a nuclear submarine that was written off is cut out with a compartment and adjusted to the point of need by water, and you can give electricity

And why then they cut it out 7 if you can give electricity 7 Or do you think the electricity is removed directly from the reactor. so little info. for general outlook
1. The reactor (gives heat. As a simple boiler and is no different (fundamentally from the point of view of energy) from a wood-burning stove.

2. steam generator
3 high and low pressure turbine
4. Steam dryer
4 generator
5. output step-up tr-r and RU
Well, about frequency control, depending on the load, I will not mention (so that you won’t be able to powder your brains)
6. Power transmission lines and relay protection.
You can continue to continue. so here. what did you say there about the cut out reactor compartment?

[atalef]

Quote: Irokez

For example, the spent block of a nuclear submarine that was written off is cut out with a compartment and adjusted to the point of need by water, and you can give electricity

And why then they cut it out 7 if you can give electricity 7 Or do you think the electricity is removed directly from the reactor. so little info. for general outlook
1. The reactor (gives heat. As a simple boiler and is no different (fundamentally from the point of view of energy) from a wood-burning stove.

2. steam generator
3 high and low pressure turbine
4. Steam dryer
4 generator
5. output step-up tr-r and RU
Well, about frequency control, depending on the load, I will not mention (so that you won’t be able to powder your brains)
6. Power transmission lines and relay protection.
You can continue to continue. so here. what did you say there about the cut out reactor compartment?

[Civil]

As a result, there will be reactors in each village)))

[kashtak]

Quote: Civil

As a result, there will be reactors in each village)))

tipun to your tongue. excuse me but you have to think. not the fifties in the yard when the jungle in Africa wanted to plow under the grain fields, and dig up the lakes with hydrogen charges. who will think about the consequences?

[atalef]

Quote: Civil

As a result, there will be reactors in each village)))

How is it in Jack Vosmerkin?

I certainly do not mind the collective farm. but not in my village

[Altona]

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place.

----------------------
The issue of energy supply to mountain, taiga and tundra settlements will be resolved ... Only the reactor needs to be made "non-separable" and the fuel "unrecoverable" and "unsuitable" for other purposes ... to extract the stuffing of a power plant for terrorist purposes ... Again, a commercial promotion to pay off the production of such nuclear generators ...

[kashtak]

Quote: Altona

The issue of energy supply of mountain, taiga and tundra settlements will be solved ...

and then the windmills didn’t please you?

[Fafnir]

Well, for example, a wild level of infrasound, a small resource, huge size, instability of the power output, etc. If you choose what I have under the window, the field of windmills or nuclear power plants, then the choice is clear - of course the nuclear power plant.

[kashtak]

Quote: Fafnir

wild infrasound

specify what level do you think is wild?

Quote: Fafnir

huge sizes

in the tundra?

Quote: Fafnir

small resource

not lower than any generator. PS and even today I worked on a turbo generator, so there is no need for infrasound, it is not higher than that of an electric motor. I do not like the wind turbine, I can name other options that do not explode and that do not need to be guarded by special forces. but you want cool bells and whistles, not serious conversation.

[Fafnir]

I wonder what you measured the level of infrasound? Okay, we’ll postpone the discussion about the dangers of infrasound for later, since information on this topic is not quite accessible.
Further, enormous size, in the tundra. How will you deliver this colossus there? Can you imagine the size? And the "cool bells and whistles" are just all these windmills, solar panels and other pseudo-ecological technologies. As for other options - well, name an energy source that has a relatively compact size, does not need a constant supply of fuel and provides stable power regardless of the weather and time of day.

[kashtak]

Quote: Fafnir

Further, the enormous size in the tundra. And how will you deliver this colossus there? Can you imagine the size?

many times less than that colossus, and the weight is tens of times,

Quote: Fafnir

As for other options - well, name a source of energy that has a relatively compact size, does not need a constant supply of fuel and produces stable power regardless of weather and time of day.

a briefcase-sized grease generator is enough to light a living room or a laptop / walkie-talkie. fuel is not needed at all (clock principle). hydrogen elements (an analogue of promising electric cars) it is more reasonable to develop transport. for the far north than such adventures. PS Infrasound we measure annually sound level meter, with the certification of jobs.

[Fafnir]

Hmm. Are we talking about power plants or toys? If we were talking about several kilowatts, I would not argue. "You don't need fuel at all" - does this device work on "worldwide ether"? "The clock principle" - what's this ?! And what kind of clock, electronic, atomic or cuckoo? Will your hydrogen spawn in fuel cells? You would study the materiel, look at the size of the same wind generators of more or less decent power, and study the rules for their maintenance. Normal generators, not several kilowatt toys.

[kashtak]

we are talking about electricity and how to get it. and the needs of reindeer herders / geologists camps. for the rig this is not relevant. Why is there 10 MW? and 5-50 kw / h is enough with a margin of space there are sparsely populated, and people are unpretentious, not that we are urban. so the fields of windmills are not needed. and the unevenness of the issue is solved. since you’re not explaining the principle of the clock, this is a spring with a cranked cocking for 5 minutes you turn and a few hours are light. the mechanism is comparable to a watch. fuel is not necessary in principle. hydrogen can spawn in a simple installation with a minimum of consumables. and where without them? even at nuclear power plants. so learn not only materiel but also theory. so transport and transport again. northern delivery through the arctic north is where the serious issue for discussion.

[Fafnir]

Have you read the article? What are the reindeer herders? What geologists? The project is in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. In the picture to the article, a device with a thermal capacity of about 8,8 MW. Are you going to feed, for example, a radar generator with a spring? Well then, let's put the company on bicycle generators, almost the "Matrix" will work. And you will need fuel in any case - FOOD for the spring plant. And can you tell us more about the spontaneous generation of hydrogen on an industrial scale? And power is measured in KiloWatts (KW), not in "kw / h". In general, before proposing a solution, read the problem.

[kashtak]

Do you think the border guard camp is different? and for the 8.8mw radar, I don’t need to say as a graduated radar operator. hydrogen, and who is talking about industrial scale? to power the radar is a small enough installation. As for the village / mine, it is wiser to make a gas pipeline branch. without laying out atomic charges over the territory. As for the kilo / megawatt, I apologize how at work I used to use Latin letters in the statement as on the device.

[Fafnir]

Mega, kilo ... It's not the Latin alphabet, but the fact that you wrote not power, but capacity (quantity) Kilowatt / hour. But radars are different, I had a chance to see on the lamps, he is still a monster. In addition, we do not know why this unit is needed by the military. Suddenly valid for the railgun But this is obviously not done for border guards, for them you can really find a much simpler solution to the same windmill . Although this also depends on the required power, it may turn out to be cheaper to import fuel to a diesel generator. And if megawatts away from power lines are required, then windmills obviously will not help. Actually, the dispute began due to the fact that they assumed different power consumption.

[AlexeyL]

Beyond the circle of the troposphere, mainly tropospheric stations of sufficiently large emitting power and they consume, respectively, are not small
In general, there would be a source of energy, but where to use it would be.
Just there are limitations due to lack of power source.

[V.ic]

Quote: kashtak

and for the 8.8mw radar, I don’t need to say as a graduated radar operator.

Graduated from the courses? So it's good, get smarter ... But even from a school physics course, 8,8 mw (in your opinion) is only 8,8 mw, and 8,8 MWt is 10 to the ninth degree more. Different sizes, however. Child "EG" ...

[AlexeyL]

What does the camp of reindeer herders / geologists and Moscow region have to do with it?

[atalef]

Quote: Fafnir

Will your hydrogen spawn in fuel cells?

It is on ammonia and is developed on methane, which in the tundra ... well, in general, a lot

Quote: Fafnir

If you choose what I have under the window, the field of windmills or nuclear power plants, then the choice is clear - of course the nuclear power plant

I’m also for having a nuclear power plant under the window

[Fafnir]

A man began to write without reading an article and mentioned exactly hydrogen elements. And I will be happy if a hundred-meter windmill will spin over your house.

[kashtak]

Quote: atalef

I’m also for having a nuclear power plant under the window

I'm sorry, but the neighbors? I like against.

[atalef]

Quote: kashtak

Quote: atalef

I’m also for having a nuclear power plant under the window

I'm sorry, but the neighbors? I like against.

So she is small

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

and the neighbors? I like against

For example, I am also a neighbor - I'm FOR

[sharp-lad]

About 15 years ago I read that they created fuel cells working on alcohol . But this is definitely not for us !!!

[Dikson]

30 years ago I read that the Germans during the war had a boat with a power plant on heavy water ..

[Bayonet]

Quote: Fafnir

If you choose what I have under the window, the field of windmills or nuclear power plants, then the choice is clear - of course the nuclear power plant

Just don’t open the window, ... just in case

[Altona]

Quote: kashtak

and then the windmills didn’t please you?

-------------
What the hell are they for me? We are powered by electricity from the Volga hydrocascade ...

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

and then the windmills didn’t please you?

1. Low efficiency.
2. Large areas.
3. By "taking" of wind energy - large areas with a wind turbine slow down the speed of movement of air masses and lead to climate change.

[AlexeyL]

Fairly complex and therefore expensive generators for wind farms

[mav1971]

Quote: kashtak

Quote: Altona

The issue of energy supply of mountain, taiga and tundra settlements will be solved ...

and then the windmills didn’t please you?

The cost of energy from windmills is much more expensive than even coal stations.
Huge equipment costs.
Huge squares.
Instability of production. In strong winds are turned off automatically.
Huge rechargeable.
Zero frost resistance.
The high cost of maintenance.
animals leave these areas due to infrasound and lobe movement.
Communicated with an Austrian that serves windmills near Vienna and Baden.
When he podnapil - he began to cut the truth, the uterus so. that the ears are wrapped.
And when he was sober - Eco yes eco. cool and gut. :)

[Dikson]

Uh-huh .. And then this "non-removable" suitcase with "non-retrievable" spent, but no less dangerous fuel is just stupid to leave it rusting in the tundra, right? Well, or drown in the Arctic near Novaya Zemlya .. - and cho, let the descendants soar ..

[Altona]

Quote: Dikson

Uh-huh .. And then this "non-removable" suitcase with "non-retrievable" spent, but no less dangerous fuel is just stupid to leave it rusting in the tundra, right? Well, or drown in the Arctic near Novaya Zemlya .. - and cho, let the descendants soar ..

-------------------
I put these conditions in quotation marks, conditionally non-removable, conditionally non-removable, that is, additionally protected from intruders ... And then this “non-separable” suitcase is carried away by a helicopter and understands industrial conditions ... And nothing.

[veksha50]

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas and in peaceful Firstly. If minimization of a nuclear installation really reaches such proportions

The difference between the protection of state, military and technical (technological) secrets between the USSR-Russia and the USA has always been that in the USA any operating time-development through 5 years (!!!) lowered its security classification and was transferred to a peaceful (national, civil) ) economy ...

Our security stamp may not have been removed for decades, even when such a technique was already out of date ... Believe me, I took the data from my head ...

So this "breakthrough" was made in 1961 (!!!), but did not find application in the national economy ... For what reason is another question ...

And now this project is simply being improved on a modern technological base ... And he, both the army and the navy, and the civilian, was needed the day before yesterday !!! But better late than never ...

[arane]

Quote: veksha50

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas and in peaceful Firstly. If minimization of a nuclear installation really reaches such proportions

The difference between the protection of state, military and technical (technological) secrets between the USSR-Russia and the USA has always been that in the USA any operating time-development through 5 years (!!!) lowered its security classification and was transferred to a peaceful (national, civil) ) economy ...

Our security stamp may not have been removed for decades, even when such a technique was already out of date ... Believe me, I took the data from my head ...

So this "breakthrough" was made in 1961 (!!!), but did not find application in the national economy ... For what reason is another question ...

And now this project is simply being improved on a modern technological base ... And he, both the army and the navy, and the civilian, was needed the day before yesterday !!! But better late than never ...

I will say more. We managed to secret the development and not implement them at all. As a result, this was repeated in the West after some time and patented.

[Old old]

So this "breakthrough" was made in 1961 (!!!), but did not find application in the national economy ... For what reason is another question ...

"Do you see the gopher? No. And he is!" k / f "DMB"
I repeat:
"RTGs were used in navigational beacons, radio beacons, weather stations and similar equipment installed in areas where, for technical or economic reasons, it is impossible to use other power sources. In particular, in the USSR they were used as power supplies for navigation equipment installed on the coast of the Arctic ocean along the Northern Sea Route. Currently, due to the risk of leakage of radiation and radioactive materials, the practice of installing unattended RTGs in inaccessible places has ceased. "
GOST 18696-90 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Types and general specifications. ” and GOST 20250-83 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Acceptance rules and test methods. " Wikipedia

[Old old]

So this "breakthrough" was made in 1961 (!!!), but did not find application in the national economy ... For what reason is another question ...

"Do you see the gopher? No. And he is!" k / f "DMB"
I repeat:
"RTGs were used in navigational beacons, radio beacons, weather stations and similar equipment installed in areas where, for technical or economic reasons, it is impossible to use other power sources. In particular, in the USSR they were used as power supplies for navigation equipment installed on the coast of the Arctic ocean along the Northern Sea Route. Currently, due to the risk of leakage of radiation and radioactive materials, the practice of installing unattended RTGs in inaccessible places has ceased. "
GOST 18696-90 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Types and general specifications. ” and GOST 20250-83 “Radionuclide thermoelectric generators. Acceptance rules and test methods. " Wikipedia

[79807420129]

In the Arctic and in inaccessible areas it is simply necessary, only shelter must also be taken very seriously

[Vadim237]

Meter combined armor will close the reactor and will be protected from all threats.

[guzik007]

To all the USSR lovers! ... Low-power mobile nuclear power plant "Object 27" or TPP-3, created in the USSR in 1961 on the platform of a heavy tank ...

There would not be a powerful backlog of the "deceased state", which is not kicked now only by the lazy, there would not be even this.
... Oh, byad! There is no one to recreate and nothing to do.

[kashtak]

Quote: Vladimir

Of course, there will be a special chic if a fast neutron reactor is put there ... Well, I already dreamed about it ...

yeah, and sent to a new land, away in one word. and even better they don’t. there is such a law of nature, solid is solid, liquid is liquid, and an atom is always dangerous. I'm not talking about radioactive waste, this is generally a paragraph for centuries.

[datura23]

and when will Chelaes be built, where will you escape to Germany or France? Or will you leave for the partisans?

[kashtak]

you won’t wait, I won’t run away. If they build ChelAES, I will stay at home. but I’ll draw conclusions for myself. and you, our stingy one, do not move weakly closer to the Lighthouse? in Chelyabinsk, by the way, we held a referendum on ChelAES. guess the results? rough work, clumsy I would say. in the atom industry is so bad with frames? Or are you from another office?

[datura23]

I live in Sosnovsky district and welcome the construction of a nuclear power plant, and I remember your referendum, what hysteria did Yeltsin’s politicians use on channel 8. You probably won’t deny that the destruction of Russian industry was part of their plans. So it turns out that you continue their work

[kashtak]

to the opinion of the media I’m deeply parallel, I have my own. nuclear power is not an industry. industry is factories in the city. I support their development with both hands. instead, you propose investing energy and resources in a dangerous and inefficient project. so which of us is Yeltsin’s ...? Instead of rebuilding the industry, the main thing is to cut down the loot now, but at least grass doesn’t grow there for this you are ready to disagree with either an extremist or ... well. nuclear reactors are indisputable no. I repeat, they are necessary where they are indispensable. obtaining isotopes, x-rays and. etc. all this is indispensable, for now. nuclear deterrence charges all the more. new power plants are not needed for this. these are the business interests of energy companies. due to us, by the way. say no? What is needed is not a new station but energy saving, this is a serious question. say no?

[sa-ag]

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place.

Yes, they have already done this for a long time, now they are pulling the light of day that they were embodied in metal in the USSR, so there is no breakthrough http://www.infuture.ru/article/1847

[your1970]

Breakthrough-well-well !!!
The construction of such power plants in those quantities about which people here have dreamed of ("each military unit", "villages in Siberia", etc., etc.) - this is ....... how to put it censorship. ...
The threats emanating from such stations exceed any pluses of their existence - moreover, the terrorist threat is so, babble, the issue being solved ..
The problem is different - the operating life of the nuclear power plant is very short, there are no technologies that can once and for all neutralize a radioactive source, the storage facilities are not endless, the construction of new ones - nobody wants to have them nearby for some reason ...
We have reactors from submarines of a breakthrough; there’s nowhere to go especially ...

Think for a second - WHY ???? in the USSR they didn’t start the series, although the need was no less, and perhaps more than now. There were technical opportunities, scientific developments, there were experimental developments, but they didn’t start, they thought better of it in time, common sense prevailed ..

for example this:
"In 1961, the first mobile NPP" TPP-3 "was put into trial operation in the USSR." TPP-3 "consisted of four tracked chassis based on the T-10 tank. Power 1,5-2 MW, service life at one load - up to a year, the weight of one self-propelled module is 90 tons. "
or another sample - "NPP" Pamir-630D ""
Or another:
"RTG-radioisotope thermoelectric generator
In Soviet times, the 1007 RTG was manufactured for ground use. The average life is 15 years. The RTG is a potential hazard, as it is located in a deserted area and can be stolen and then used as a dirty bomb. Cases of dismantlement of RTGs by non-ferrous metal hunters were recorded, while the abductors themselves received a lethal dose of radiation.
Currently, they are being dismantled and disposed of under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency and funded by the United States, Norway and other countries. By the beginning of the 2011 year, the 539 RTG was dismantled. As of 2012, 72 RTGs are in operation, 3 lost, 222 in storage, 31 in the process of disposal. Four installations were in operation in Antarctica. "

I saw how I removed a random source of cesium — it was in a gondola car, so that a special-purpose crane with a grip could come up safely — the RADON team made a wall of foundation blocks ... And the source was a trifle, from a flaw detector - and the phonil so that the meters screeched as much as not bursting ....

And you are more good and different nuclear power plants !!!!!!!!
No, otherwise there will be a lot of headache and problems .... and our children, by the way, too .......

[guzik007]

You shouldn’t be so pessimistic ... Google for 4th generation reactors working on waste (our development) This may be discussed ...

[Dikson]

Are you talking about MOX fuel now? So there in technology such a vigorous guano precipitates, which really only needs 10 kilometers to be pumped underground ...

[guzik007]

so guano goes to recycling again, if I'm not mistaken.

[Dikson]

Mistaken a little .. -the cycle there is really in terms of efficiency incomparable with the current fuel, but in the end there is still a VERY and VERY dangerous residue ... Small, but today no one knows what can be done with it, except how to bury it very much deep or send to the sun. There is no processing technology for this residue yet. But in principle, MOX technology is a real way out of the situation with irradiated nuclear fuel today, in which huge potential is laid. Sin is not to use this scheme ..

[Alex_Rarog]

Toshiba 4S mini-nuclear power plants are a really tiny reactor (underground, encapsulated), capable of supplying 10 megawatts to the network.
Another 2003 year, the only innovation is that it is mobile, and so the Japs did it a long time ago ...

[GSH-18]

K 2020 g Russian military will receive small nuclear power plants

Yes, this is damn cool! Especially in the north. Nor any diesel generators and barrels with diesel engines that you still need to bring ..

[NEXUS]

Quote: Vladimir

It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place.

This is ALREADY a breakthrough.
That's what I thought ... analogues, albeit slightly reworked, because you can put them on the same Varshavyanki or Lada, and at the output we get small, but atomic submarines with an unlimited travel resource.
As for peaceful purposes, there really are no limits to the imagination to apply. Plus export is also an important moment in this matter.

[Maksus]

Why a breakthrough? Everything has already been done in the USSR - the 27 facility.

In 1957, by order of the Ministry of Medium Engineering, the Design Bureau created a chassis for a mobile nuclear power plant (“27 facility”), based on T-10 nodes. The declared mass of the car was 90 t, so the chassis of the tank had to be lengthened by putting ten pairs of road wheels and a significantly widened track. The case was a rectangular body, resembling the dimensions of a large railway car.

The mobile nuclear power plant was successfully tested and operated in the Kolyma, Chukotka and other areas of the Far North.

[mgfly]

flipped down specially to see your answer) well, if I hadn’t seen it, I would have added it myself!
there, too, they assembled a complex of 4 cars (I compare with the picture on the screen saver) and they worked for themselves in the north. so what a breakthrough it will be ... well, I don’t even know

[Maksus]

Below, there is another post about this installation, even written earlier.

[Down House]

Quote: mgfly

what a breakthrough it will be ... well, I don’t even know

Well, it was a pilot project, and in the article the conversation about almost serial production is a huge difference

[NEXUS]

Quote: Maksus

Why a breakthrough? Everything has already been done in the USSR - the 27 facility.

The breakthrough is that they have returned to this, investing and modernizing, rather than successfully "burying it".
Do not equate the economies of 15 republics with the economies of one Russia. Thank God that these developments were and were remembered about.

[Maksus]

So it’s not a breakthrough, but normal work with archives and the base. But the economy of the 15 republics did not exist - there was the RSFSR and Ukraine and Belarus - the rest are subsidized.

[Asadullah]

If minimizing a nuclear installation really reaches such a scale of belay (sorry for the paradox), then this is simply not a breakthrough.

This breakthrough took place in the late seventies, and in the eighties there was a whole set of options, including space ones on polonium. Was not in demand. And today I do not really understand "why the holy fool was offended", most likely some kind of weapon appeared in the presence that requires such a constant source of energy. Most likely it has something to do with jamming and laser-tasers.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Vladimir

This is really cool !!!
It will be a breakthrough in many areas.

This breakthrough is already a hundred years old at lunch!
In 1961, for the first time in the USSR, an experimental all-terrain nuclear power plant -TES-3 was created. A mobile nuclear power plant is installed on the caterpillar base of the tank, for patency in hard-to-reach areas.
Soviet scientists who created TPP-3 took into account the peculiarities of the operation of nuclear reactors for icebreakers. As a result, the scheme of a small double-circuit reactor was taken as the basis of a mobile nuclear power plant. TES-3 was located on 4 components connected in series. The result was a kind of caterpillar train.
The first compartment of the train housed the nuclear reactor itself with a cooling system. The next car is steam generators, the third part of the nuclear rolling stock is a turbogenerator. And in the fourth compartment of the mobile nuclear power plant, the entire control system was located directly.
Despite all its mobility, TPES-3 PAES worked in a standby mode, not on the move, and was pre-surrounded with protective blocks after delivery to the desired facility.
In addition to the TEZ-3 caterpillar train, Soviet scientists also created a wheeled mobile nuclear power plant called the Pamir. It was a military development, was used to power military systems as a backup resource. Such mobile Pamir NPPs were installed on special MAZ large-sized tractors, using the same coupling principle as a caterpillar train, on four cars. Construction - with a total weight of more than 60 tons.
After the tragic accident of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in 1985, the use of mobile nuclear power plants in the USSR was gradually phased out.

[Marconi41]

Quote: Vladimir

This is really cool !!!

Yeah, cool ... I would not want to fight next to such a source of energy. First you need to figure out why they are doing it. Certainly not for the cutting edge.

[Svetlana]

Quote: Vladimir

Of course, there will be a special chic if a fast neutron reactor is put there

This is a conscious choice that minimizes the mass of mini-nuclear power plants.
The choice of a fast neutron nuclear reactor rather than thermal neutrons is due to the fact that of all the nuclear reactors of the same given power, the fastest neutron nuclear reactors have the smallest mass and size characteristics of the core, because in the active zone there is no moderator mass, but there is only coolant and fuel.

[Xanna]

The main thing is to work with this personnel trained! And then nuclear power, of course, is the safest and most environmentally friendly ... if you handle it correctly.
And then, knowing the Russian gouging ...

Itself from production. Here we would have such a setup, it would be great ... but then I remember our gouging - no, it’s better not, by God, it’s not necessary!

[Yars]

Quote: Vladimir

This is really cool !!!
It will be a breakthrough in many areas, and if wisely then in peace, in the first place. If minimization of a nuclear installation really reaches such proportions (sorry for the paradox) then this is just an unprecedented breakthrough.
Of course, there will be a special chic if a fast neutron reactor is put there ... Well, I already dreamed about it ...

here is a rhinestone do not forget who is budgeting money for these developments! Dmitry Anatolievich! Here, many throw mud at him, but then, under articles with developments for which the prime minister's government allocates money, they write "beautiful" comments, so that they can earn some plus signs!

[goblin xnumx]

the breakthrough is the same as for example a Russian TV or phone or (I do not even hope) a laptop? :)

[S-cream]

RTG - have you heard? So it's not that a breakthrough ...

[Basarev]

Personally, I am a supporter of nuclear energy in general and mobile nuclear power plants in particular, and therefore I wish the developers success. If only she could accommodate the station in one car instead of this caravan - she wouldn’t have a price!

[OlegLex]

What kind of breakthrough are you talking about? Ten years ago, a low-power mine nuclear reactor was being developed, even the approximate cost was called about 90 million dollars, and it was a commercial project. In fact, a small-sized nuclear reactor is technically not such a big problem. That's not the point here. And I think that after the publication of this news in the CIA, there was a quiet panic. Because a military nuclear reactor, and even a mobile one, is not particularly needed, diesel generators will be enough for a good military unit (for example, note that huge shopping centers in large cities have almost completely switched to autonomous energy supply) Of course, one can argue that such PELMM are needed for our army in the Arctic Circle. and I agree, yes they do, but they don't need mobility. So our overseas "partners" (they put a helmet in the anus and don't give a damn what does not fit) clearly got sick. Because otherwise than for high-energy weapons, PELMM will not be mass-produced.

[PlotnikoffDD]

Such things are not only necessary for the army.

[Bronik]

Covering with air defense and explosive forces is cheaper than transporting diesel fuel.

[Wedmak]

Here is a really breakthrough thing. A floating nuclear power plant is already under construction. And these kids are ideal not only for the military, but also for providing distant cities and villages. Only now it is necessary to seriously consider protection from fools, theft, theft of fissile materials, etc.

[venaya]

Quote: Wedmak

A floating nuclear power plant is already under construction. And these kids are ideal not only for the military, but also for providing distant cities and villages.

Areas of the far north where there are problems with the supply of fuel - this is the first priority for such devices. Here, not only savings, but also given the small population of these areas, security issues are solved much easier.

[Wedmak]

security issues are resolved much easier.

Well, I wouldn’t relax there either. Too much benefit from possessing such technologies. Moreover, not only in a peaceful way. They can steal there too.

[sniper]

Quote: Wedmak

They can steal there too.

It seems to me that such a station is needed not for the power supply of some winter house, but for the operation of some equipment requiring huge energy consumption. God knows what it is, or powerful location stations, or something else ... But this object will itself be guarded in such a way that every walrus will have the document checked ... So, they will not steal ...

[Dikson]

The point of making it mobile? It is enough to make modular then .. and more reliable and cheaper .. The point is to put the reactor on wheels, if it is supposed to be used in difficult places? It’s easier, after all, to deliver by helicopters, by sea, and assemble on the spot ..

[sniper]

Quote: Dikson

The point of making it mobile?

This military secret is ...

[VseDoFeNi]

It’s not so backward, our Russia.

[tracer]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

It’s not so backward, our Russia.

Not a damn thing about backwardness ... Everything is cool there at all (it just arrived yesterday).

[FIREMAN]

Something similar has already happened - the Pamir-630D NPP.

The 630 kW reactor unit was mounted on a special MAZ-9994 semi-trailer with a carrying capacity of 65 tons, in the role of a tractor for which was the analogue of MAZ-537 - MAZ-7960 developed for such a case. In addition to the biosecurity reactor, this unit also contained an emergency cooling system, an auxiliary switchboard cabinet and two autonomous 16 kW diesel generators. The same “bundle” drove the turbogenerator unit with the equipment of the power plant.

In the bodies of auxiliary KrAZ vehicles there were elements of an automated control system for protection and control. Another such truck was carrying an auxiliary power unit with two 100 kW diesel generators. The result was a convoy of five cars. http://naviny.by/rubrics/tourism/2011/07/24/ic_articles_116_174489/print/

[Diviz]

And I also heard that if you transmit current not inside the conductor but on the surface, then the efficiency will increase significantly.

[Wedmak]

And I also heard that if you transmit current not inside the conductor but on the surface, then the efficiency will increase significantly.

That’s who else would understand what this electric current is, Nobel’s provided.
But in general, they told us in physics that the current flows along the surface of the conductor, there is no current inside. Although the directional movement of electrons is.

[venaya]

Quote: Wedmak

.. we were told in physics that the current goes along the surface of the conductor, there is no current inside. Although the directional movement of electrons is.

"current flows along the surface of the conductor"- they meant only alternating current. Direct current flows over the entire area of ​​the conductor, with alternating current is more complicated. There, due to losses due to" Foucault currents "(losses occur due to the occurrence of electromagnetic disturbance inside the conductor), the resistance increases sharply with increasing frequency. Therefore, in microwave devices, waveguides were used earlier, hollow inside, then the power losses were significantly reduced. My opinion: school education needs to be improved.

[gridasov]

Bad teachers taught you. Direct current is not something that is associated with constancy. Current is always a consequence of alternating magnetic flux. Is not it? Therefore, the frequency-amplitude parameters of alternating magnetic fluxes are expressed by vectors in a completely different plane than alternating current. Therefore, in the structure of the material of the conductor, the magnetic fluxes stand along the vector corresponding to the direction of the transmission vector of the direction of the pole. But the "productive" part of the impulse still moves along the surface of the conductor, and not inside the structure "clamped" by the intrinsic magnetic force interactions of the conductor material. Generally, the current can be passed through any material. Current parameters can only be changed. But not all at once.

[Wedmak]

Current is always the result of alternating magnetic flux. Is not it?

Well, generally not always. Have you ever seen the batteries?

Actually, the current can be passed through any material. The current parameters can only be changed. But not all at once.

Yeah, the only question is whether he will go. It looks like you forgot about the separation of materials into conductors and dielectrics. Let's not touch semiconductors yet.

[gridasov]

I am ashamed of the people for us that, having enough potential for imagination and its manipulation, we remain slaves to illusions, especially imposed by the mistakes of discoverers. People do not know how to be consistent in the correctness of their thoughts and actions. We are all mixed up. Therefore, the potential and generally the parameters of the batteries are not only calculated according to current criteria, but it is also worthwhile to analyze the balance of magnetic processes that determine the linear potential vector between the poles, but also the torque expressed by radial magnetic fluxes. It’s just that we don’t know how to analyze these relations, etc., but also to perceive the evidence of a variable impulse in the algorithm of such relations.
The current flows through any material - the question is in determining the quality parameter of such a magnetic force flux, which forms the corresponding current. The method we are talking about allows you to create an EMF in any solid material, and accordingly, since the current is reproduced by structural changes in the magnetic processes inside the material and without external interference processes, all this becomes obvious and undeniable. Moreover, in these methods, it is possible to determine the properties of solid materials in any medium of liquids or gases at any critical levels of comparison. In other words, we can practically model not just space processes on Earth, but model the laws of such interactions in the critical parameters of interactions. Therefore, leave the theory of dielectrics and semiconductors for the past generation. since this is a theory and practice only for a particular quality of email. magnetic processes of low potential levels.

[Wedmak]

Has anyone understood what this person is saying?

[Xsanchez]

Didn’t they warn you about Gridasov?

[Down House]

Quote: Xsanchez

Didn’t they warn you about Gridasov?

And what is this bright personality?

[gridasov]

And where did you hear that the current moves along the conductor inside. In order for the current to flow inside the conductor, its configuration must be different. In general, the higher the density of magnetic fluxes, the closer the current to the surface of the material.

[Mountain shooter]

What nonsense is that? Direct current flows throughout the cross section of the conductor. With increasing frequency, the depth of current penetration into the conductor decreases. Called - Skin effect. But these are frequencies that are not used in everyday life. And at 50 Hz, current flows throughout the entire cross section.

[gridasov]

You are talking nonsense! Structural magnetic interactions in a material will never allow themselves to be "disturbed" if there is no corresponding equivalent. Therefore, the current of such frequencies always flows over the surface of the conductor material. Or, more precisely, that part of the current flow, which is expressed in magnetic force effects, but for some reason we call it current. Therefore, read again and reflect on what a skin effect is. To reduce losses on e-mail lines gears need to use spin magnetic fluxes. And in general it would be worth thinking with your own brains, not strangers.

[Down House]

Quote: gridasov

Therefore, the current of such frequencies always goes along the surface of the wire

That is, if you climb into the bath with your head, then you can let it flow in it or not? ))))

[venaya]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

What nonsense is that? ... With increasing frequency, the depth of current penetration into the conductor decreases. ... frequencies that are not used in everyday life. And at 50 Hz, current flows throughout the entire cross section.

It doesn't work across the entire section. The problem is old, even the "Institute (Research Institute) of DC" exists and works, there are difficulties there. Losses on long-distance transmission lines of high power are enormous and at 50 Hertz, thick wires are made composite, in the center from low-conductive materials, which significantly reduces the total losses.

[gridasov]

Do you know why the losses are lower in conductors covered with a certain layer of substance? Because there is a so-called "break-in" moment of the spin of the magnetic force flux. But it is better to do it differently. All these are tasks of four components that you just need to build according to harmonious algorithms. Why does Slavyanka winding give the "best" result? Yes, only because the magnetic fluxes were matched by a random experiment. But there are no opportunities for the development of this improvement, because there is no theory, but in general everything is very simple.

[sharp-lad]

For example, steel cables coated with copper, only steel cables are used to provide strength (copper will simply break), and not to reduce losses.

[venaya]

Quote: sharp-lad

... steel cables coated with copper, only steel cables are used to provide strength (copper will simply break), and not to reduce losses.

"not to reduce losses"- and to reduce losses, including, a complex solution is obtained: both ours and yours, and an increase in strength and a decrease in energy transfer resistance. By the way, to reduce the total cost of a conductor, cheaper aluminum is also used instead of expensive copper, in this case total economic efficiency increases, including due to a decrease in energy losses due to the coronary effect.

[Xsanchez]

A constant current frequency of 50 hertz? Something I have not heard about this.

[AlexeyL]

the distribution of flows in the conductor cross section is solved by the simplest field problem

[Wedmak]

Direct current flows throughout the cross section of the conductor.

Maybe yes, it was about alternating current.

But! I ask you to notice one thing that I said at the beginning. What is electric current, no one has yet explained. Now it is being approved, and all calculations are based on the fact that this is a stream of charged particles - electrons and ions. However, the speed of distribution of email. current does not confirm this theory, because it moves at the speed of light, which means it is an electromagnetic wave and the electron (ion) is only some part of it. But the electron has mass! So he cannot move at the speed of light.
In general, you understand ... one after another, we get to the theory of relativity.

Therefore, it is not clear how the current actually goes through the conductor.

[gridasov]

No abstract current flows through the conductor. and the interaction of magnetic force flows is formed, which can not be calculated, but a system of analysis at the level of distribution of interactions is formed. It is in such a system of analysis that the essence of those processes that are "driven" into the theory of relativity consists.

[sharp-lad]

You haven’t been to school for a long time.

[sharp-lad]

You haven’t been to school for a long time.

[Aleksandr2012]

Electrons (ions, etc.) move at a speed of the order of centimeters per second. An electromagnetic field propagates at a speed close to the speed of light. Physics 6th-7th grade.

[venaya]

Quote: Wedmak

Maybe yes, it was about alternating current.
What electric current is, no one has yet explained ... you understand ... one by one, we get to the theory of relativity.

"we get to the theory of relativity"- have already reached, and not only to the theory, but also some comrades to obvious insanity, in the style of" delirium tremens. "Where does the administration look?" What is electric current, no one has yet explained "- Do you need it? we need to know its property more, as for theories, then my opinion: "More theories, good and different" will not hurt, otherwise now there is a complete stagnation in physics, many see this, but someone is very difficult to deal with it. "Theories of relativity" do not add clarity, but on the contrary, they completely confuse everything.

[Xsanchez]

In vain you are, now the best minds are working on a general theory that will unite all existing theories.

[venaya]

Quote: Xsanchez

... now the best minds are working on a general theory that will unite all existing theories.

"better minds work on a general theory"- here it is, and I'm talking about it. Always"best minds"Monopoly created a single (unique) theory, which in the future had to obey everything, absolutely everything. And this is the path to nowhere. Practice says that"best minds"they create first I. Newton's TO, then A. Einstein's, which very, very slows down the progress of scientific research. We have one institute where all this monopoly on truth is not recognized, by the way, the famous professor I. Kurchatov: Does this mean anything to you?

[Down House]

Quote: venaya

"So far no one has explained what is electric current." In practice, we need to know more about its property

Who do you want? Obviously not to learned theorists.
In general, the more we know about the nature of a phenomenon, the more accurate and extensive are the properties of this phenomenon known to us.

[sharp-lad]

This is school-level physics! Electric charges of the same name repel each other! and therefore, the current flows along the surface of the conductor regardless of its variability. Please do not confuse it with microcurrents, for example, in processors, we are talking about the movement of a few electrons.

[venaya]

Quote: sharp-lad

Electric charges of the same name repel each other! and therefore, the current flows along the surface of the conductor regardless of its variability.

This news of science and technology draws on a scientific discovery. Try publishing in a scientific publication. By the way, the Research Institute of PT (DC) has been working for many years and no one knows anything about it there, please contact there too.

[Riv]

And if right on the ground - then the worms for fishing come out themselves.
However, I am afraid that if such a technology is implemented at a mobile nuclear station, then the miners will come out and the crew will greatly regret it.

[Wedmak]

that if at a mobile nuclear power plant implement such technology, then miners will come out

I'm afraid the devils will come out there.

[Dikson]

To hell with her, with the ground! But tell me where does it (the electric current) go when you flip the switch ?! Here are two paired sockets .. in one you have a kettle on, is there a current ... and in the other? Is the circuit not closed - no current? but the sockets are parallelized .. in the one that is empty, no load - electrons move? And if they move, where do they "dump" energy, if the circuit is not closed and there is no load? :-))

[mav1971]

Quote from DiViZ

And I also heard that if you transmit current not inside the conductor but on the surface, then the efficiency will increase significantly.

On this subject, sellers of all kinds of High-End audio cables love to earn fabulous profits.
They will cover the copper wire with silver and begin to sell.
By...
8500 dollars = per 2.5 meter 100thousand rubles per meter.
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2010/08/24/8-feet-of-audioquest-k2-terminated-speaker-cab
le-for-just-8450 /

And there are believers in the surface effect :)

[venaya]

Quote: mav1971

... they will cover the copper wire with silver ...

This technology has been widely used by us, he used such wires. The greatest positive effect is obtained at frequencies of tens of MHz. In this case, the quality factor of the resonance filters increased significantly. I am surprised if this is not being used now.

[Basarev]

The point is that with a genuine skin effect that occurs with a radical increase in frequencies up to hundreds of thousands of hertz, the current does not flow into the metal at all and does not even touch it - it is because of this that Tesla freely took a burning lamp in his hand - that’s the point!

[Dikson]

I don’t know how, as Saint Nikola Tesla, but in our hall where the transmitters were standing, any soldier could stand near the transmitter feeder with a lamp (even though neon, even with a luminescent) —and it glowed ... In full light! All the Jedi nervously smoked aside .. (and by the way, no one was drawn to the salty))))

[svp67]

With their advent, laser warheads and railguns will become operational, along with the familiar weapons.

[sergio3004]

Such cars would be very useful now in case of undermining the power supply to the cities of Crimea.

[Bugivugi]

In 1961, the first mobile nuclear power station TES-3 was put into trial operation in the USSR; in fact, it was an experimental facility for studying the use of such nuclear power plants to provide energy for hard-to-reach areas of our vast country even now.

“TES-3” consisted of four tracked chassis based on the T-10 tank, however, due to its large dimensions, the chassis had to be extended to 10 rollers on board. One self-propelled gun was used as a chassis for the reactor, a steam generator was installed on the second, the third and fourth self-propelled steel chassis for the turbogenerator, control panel and auxiliary equipment. Power 1,5-2 MW, the service life on one load is up to a year, the weight of one self-propelled module is 90 tons. There are 4 modules in total.

The chassis of the T-10 heavy tank (IS-10) is elongated with an increased number of rollers and a wider track.

[gridasov]

The concept of portable power plants using technologies for the use of radioactive materials is the road to nowhere. The same parameters and much higher energy levels can be achieved much more easily and environmentally, and in all aspects, in a radically safe way. Moreover, such a new technology can be used to treat radioactive contaminated liquid waste.

[Wedmak]

The same parameters and much higher energy levels can be achieved much more easily and environmentally, and in all aspects, in a radically safe way.

Well, well, in what way? And why does the world community not know about this method?

[gridasov]

It seems to me that I have already written quite a lot about the fact that Maxwell’s law states that with increasing distance from a conductor with a current, the magnetic force flux decreases irregularly. Rather, this is so true if you do not make any efforts to learn how to use this principle to good use. The method and method that allows you to get an extremely high potential difference at the ends of the conductor with the application of only mechanical force is simple, as well as the fact that we move rearranging the legs. Therefore, applicable to the production of email. energy autonomous power plants of a wide scale of scale in terms of size and energy production itself, we can say that stationary nuclear power plants have no prospects. At least by the fact that many related processes are very complex and regulated. The principles that we are talking about are completely natural and differ from the methods that we apply now, only by changing the algorithms for organizing processes, but which radically change the essence of physical transformations in moving flows of environments. There are no serious people who want to change something. Therefore, I will not spread much. All parties to the dialogue should make an effort.

[Vladimir K]

Something is not clear. What is the change in the algorithms for organizing processes that radically change the essence of physical transformations in moving flows ...? Is this the discovery of new (fundamental) laws? The ultra-high potential difference is certainly interesting, but where will you get energy? Or conservation laws do not apply to you?

[gridasov]

Energy is a dynamic process of transforming one potential of the state of local space into another - by vector, by algorithms, by level of potential. Therefore, I did say that conservation laws are violated. Do you know what energy conservation is? How difficult is it to understand that if we live in an elastic medium, where the resistance increases with our relative speed of movement, then this elastic resistance can easily be turned into a useful energy of force directed along the vector of this resistance. In this case, a complex of energy transformation of this elastic medium occurs in the form of not ionization surfaces but ionization. Which creates variable magnetic fluxes. And more

[Wedmak]

that Maxwell’s law that with increasing distance from a conductor with a current, the magnetic force flux decreases is incorrect

Chegoooooo ???? That is, it does not decrease? Is increasing? Or remains constant ????

but which radically change the essence of physical transformations in the moving flows of the environments.

Don't powder people's brains. Anyway directly and clearly tell about your "method", or stop already writing abstruse nonsense, words that are loosely connected to each other.

[gridasov]

To what extent people are funny when they see a conductor with current, but there is no type around the space of interactions. You see the sea and the horizon, but you don’t see the air, which determines the state of the wave in the dominant, as a contact surface with that medium that has energetically denser interactions. Otherwise, the water would simply cling to the upper atmosphere. Powder your brains yourself and others. Read or not read. It's your right. Not only for you is written. And learn to read not the words, but the content of the text.

[Wedmak]

To what extent people are funny when they see a conductor with current, but there is no type around the space of interactions.

You claim that the magnetic field around a conductor does not decrease with distance, right? Or isn’t it?

but you don’t see the air, which determines the state of the wave in the dominant, as a contact surface with that medium that has energetically denser interactions. Otherwise, the water would simply cling to the upper atmosphere.

What? According to you, only the air does not allow water to fly to heaven ??? And "snuggled up to the upper atmosphere", how is that?

[Down House]

Quote: gridasov

but there is no type around the interaction space.

Well, what kind of interaction around "space"?

[Riv]

Judging by the comments, no one noticed the main joke of the article. On the starting photo, as follows from the caption, a small mobile nuclear power plant, created in the USSR (ATTENTION !!!) in 1961 on the platform of a heavy tank. Explain to me, why the heck "The Minister of Defense gave the command to make a pilot project of low-power nuclear power plants in the interests of the Ministry of Defense" if such a project was ready fifty years ago ???
Did Shoigu get sick with something rare?

And why the heck to do a mobile installation, which by definition needs a stationary power line? Will the power line also be mobile? Those who wish can calculate the parameters of the cable and the possibility of its forwarding on the ground.

To the author: stop writing articles intermittently.

[Wedmak]

Did Shoigu get sick with something rare?

The reactor technologies in 1961 and 2015 are quite different. therefore the project is a pilot. This time. The second - in 1961 there was still only a project.

[Riv]

Truth? And what are the fundamentally different technologies? Probably uranium began to divide in a different way, and the water boils in a different way ... And yes, yes: we are introducing nanotechnology.

[Wedmak]

And what are the fundamentally different technologies? Probably the uranium began to divide differently, and the water boil differently ...

Nothing happened with uranium. But the fuel has somewhat changed. The fuel assemblies themselves, the decay methods and systems have also changed. A lot has changed. Of course, they don’t tell about everything, but what I read has definitely changed since 1961.
MOX fuel was tested, they intend to close the entire nuclear cycle deafly and put into operation hundreds of tons of produced fuel from old reactors. In general, in this matter we are ahead of the rest.

[Dikson]

Well, it’s not completely tight, what are you ... sediments ... that only send to the Sun ...

[Riv]

Well yes ... Nanotechnology. I thought so.

[combat66]

In the 61st, almost all of the electronics were on a lamp, and now on tanks!

[Wedmak]

And why the heck to do a mobile installation, which by definition needs a stationary power line?

Power lines stretch the case for a couple of months. Yes, even stupidly throw on the ground a half-meter armored cable to the distribution station, also not for long.
How much will such an installation produce? Not tens of thousands of kilowatts ...

[your1970]

Wedmak
"stupidly on the ground half meter the armored cable to the distribution station is also short-lived.
How much will such a setup produce? Not tens of thousands of kilowatts ... "

On half a meter cable can be easily driven megawatts

[Riv]

Yes, I laughed too. :) :) :)

[Wedmak]

In vain you laugh, By these 50 cm I meant just the armor, and not the conductor himself.

[atalef]

Quote: Wedmak

In vain you laugh, By these 50 cm I meant just the armor, and not the conductor himself.

Why does cable need such armor?

[Wedmak]

Why does cable need such armor?

But you never know ... there are a lot of deer. Even the bears say come across. )))) Okay, I agree, I went a little over with a half meter.

[Dikson]

and stretch under water .. -from the island to the island .. and so on throughout the Arctic ..

[Riv]

Do you think that in the same couple of months you can mount a station without placing its blocks on mobile platforms? Which are also going to transfer by plane ...

Is there a brick wall next to you? Tap on it with your head and think: the ability to mount power lines implies the presence of a sufficiently developed infrastructure. Moreover, the airfield implies the same. So why carry a tank chassis on an airplane?

And by the way, yes: not tens of thousands of kilowatts. HUNDREDS. Otherwise, it is easier to dispense with a diesel engine in Kamaz.

[your1970]

There are no problems to be solved there - a carriage, and most importantly, I repeat - the USSR did not just close all topics on mini-reactors: it is too dangerous, unpredictable in its consequences, and subsequent storage is expensive ...
In the USSR, they still knew how to count money, at least sometimes it doesn’t seem to ...
God be with him, from the USSR — why haven’t the hundreds of thousands of mini-Toshibov reactors since the 2003 of the year? WHY ???? !!!! Think about it ...

[Riv]

That's it ... The point is not that in the USSR they knew how to count money, but that nobody cares about such an installation.

[Down House]

Quote: your1970

why the Japanese since 2003 have not blotted hundreds / thousands of mini-Toshibov reactors? WHY????!!!!

Such a mini-nuclear power plant simply turned out to be not in demand today, but it is possible that "tomorrow" there will be "thousands" of them.

[your1970]

"just turned out to be not in demand" - think WHY ???? for 12 years of existence the Japanese did not rush to rivet them ??????
There were planes and even cars with reactors ...

"Perhaps ......." "" - and let them have thousands of them and let them toil with them ...
The Japanese, WHY SOMETHING do not want to build them !!! stupid probably ....

[Down House]

Quote: your1970

The Japanese, why, they do not want to build them !!! stupid probably

Because they once again - there is no need to build them, they live "on an island where there is a power line every 5 meters."

[would]

Will the power line also be mobile?

Why not? There are no insoluble obstacles to this, especially considering the low power.

[Xsanchez]

The consumer will be nearby.

[Stas 86]

Tell me, who knows how much weight this unit has without a chassis?

[Stas 86]

We must strive to do one to one, well, at least one to two, that is, the mass of the installation is 2 tons - it produces 1-2 megawatts.

[Stas 86]

I’m sorry, I didn’t think so, at least one in five, that is, a mass of 5t. - 1 MW.
In general, the lower the mass, the better

[veksha50]

"At first, such objects need at least 30 for the regions of the Far North, Arctic archipelagos" ...

Yes, in the same Crimea, and in the same Siberia ... Russia is immense, and most of its territory is uninhabited ...

[ALEA IACTA EST]

What a technique it came to!

[Kadex]

I like successes in the military construction of Russia.
The only wish, probably, was to keep the balance and not leave the citizen unattended. We went through this ...

[bad]

when this is done, it will be cool! in any corner of the Arctic or else where far from civilization, our soldiers receive electricity for energy-intensive military communication systems, for the repair of equipment (machines, welding), not only light, heat and hot water in abundance, but also mobile communications, Internet and other "home" delights in fact without restrictions .. really cool! if only financed! good news!

[gas113]

About 10-15 years ago I read about container mini-nuclear plants of Toshiba. What Wiki writes:


Toshiba 4S - mini-nuclear power plants, mini-nuclear reactor.

Developed by Toshiba in collaboration with the Japan Central Electric Power Research Institute (CRIEPI). Station 4S (stands for Super-Safe, Small and Simple, ultra-reliable, small and simple), according to the developers, should work 30 years without restarting the fuel. The reactor and the entire complex of nuclear power plants do not need constant maintenance - only occasional monitoring is needed.

Power 10 megawatts with the possibility of creating a future 50 megawatt version. Fuel is a metal alloy of uranium, plutonium and zirconium. The dimensions of the ground structure are 22 × 16 × 11 m, the active zone is located in a sealed cylindrical shaft 30 m deep.

4S is a sodium fast neutron reactor using neutron reflector panels around the core to maintain neutron flux density. The same panels replace the control rods, allowing you to drown out the chain reaction in the event of an accident. Toshiba 4S uses liquid sodium as a cooler, allowing it to raise the reactor's operating temperature by 200 compared to using water. The use of sodium as a cooler that remains liquid at higher temperatures compared to water allows maintaining a low pressure in the reactor at these temperatures.

It was proposed to install the Toshiba 4S power unit at the Galena nuclear power plant, but after the closure of this project, Toshiba refused to certify the design.

This technology can be used to create a traveling wave reactor after Toshiba and TerraPower have signed a non-disclosure agreement.

In the USSR there was a similar design for the Elena reactor. The demonstration prototype of Elena has been successfully working at the Institute of Atomic Energy for 12 years.

[would]

The device from the point of view of energy production, including heat, is extremely interesting and necessary, for example, in Yakutia and other remote areas where the percentage of autonomous settlements is high where their own power plants are needed. And for a second they need to be filled with coolant constantly and often.

Only now, as always, the security question arises. Even an ordinary nuclear power plant is a potentially dangerous thing despite the thick walls, perimeter, and a bunch of safety equipment that should prevent catastrophe, and if it happened, minimize damage. In a single phrase, a conventional nuclear power plant is a capital and fortified structure. And here the installation is almost open in KAMAZ, a wonderful target for a terrorist attack.

Of course, there is still the possibility that the project will never be implemented.

[atalef]

Quote: rait

A nuclear power plant is a capital and fortified structure. And here the installation is almost open in KAMAZ, a wonderful target for a terrorist attack

Yes, not just open. and autonomous and controlled via satellite.
I wonder how much time her reindeer herders will take for metal?

[atalef]

Quote: rait

A nuclear power plant is a capital and fortified structure. And here the installation is almost open in KAMAZ, a wonderful target for a terrorist attack

Yes, not just open. and autonomous and controlled via satellite.
I wonder how much time her reindeer herders will take for metal?

[would]

Well, I suspect that the reindeer herders will not be able to open the case, and the usual security will protect against such. But security from a sabotage group is a big issue that needs to be addressed.

[atalef]

Quote: rait

Well, I suspect that the reindeer herders will not be able to open the case, and the usual security will protect against such

And the reindeer herders are dumber than our Bedouins, who manage to throw transformers from poles, given that they are under 24 kV elastic.
And in 20 minutes immersed in the tender

[Dikson]

The technology of damage to high-voltage power lines is very simple: just unscrew the nuts on the poles and drive away .. The wind drops the power line poles - the automatics turn off the current, drive up, cut the wires and if you are very lucky - quickly leave for the colorimetric reception point ..

[Wedmak]

I remember in the days of the Soviet Union made beacons operating on RTGs. Voooot ..... Next is a picture of a gouged RTG with radiation measurements. Comments I think are unnecessary.

[Dikson]

These are the things my friends served .. Without a liter of alcohol, no one came.

[Dikson]

In my difficult Soviet childhood, a boy who I knew from the camp, managed to turn a stolen wrench with a hammer (for cold !!) into a knife ... To be honest, I still don’t understand how this is possible ..

[Riv]

This is impossible. Vanadium-alloyed steel must not be forged when cold. Cracks and crumbles. What a little boy lied.

[Dikson]

hell .. Maybe he stupidly turned a wrench? the bottom line is that I saw a knife with a familiar, not at all runic inscription: chrome vanadium ... rude, plain, but it was a real knife ...))

[gridasov]

But for some reason, it’s hard for everyone to know that such autonomous power plants have almost zero Q factor in remote areas of the Earth. Judge for yourself . Reactor zone, Heat exchange circuit. Turbine Generator. At the same time, the entire turbine can represent a single device and a reactor without a heat exchanger, and a generator immediately. Because the essence of the generator is combined with the function of the turbine.

[atalef]

Quote: gridasov

. At the same time, the entire turbine can represent a single device and reactor without a heat exchanger

a reactor without a heat exchanger? and you are going to twist a turbine? Neutrons?

Quote: gridasov

Because the essence of the generator is combined with the function of the turbine.

The essence is combined
The generator and turbine are always combined. being on one shaft or by means of an air coupling (gas turbines).
Or have ideas on a belt or chain drive?

[gridasov]

Are you kidding or really missing words while reading. The function of the generator is the creation of an alternating magnetic flux in the windings located in the stator and rotor. The essence of the turbine (for nuclear power plants) is to convert the vapor pressure from the reactor at the moment of rotation on the shaft of this turbine and then through the shaft to the generator. So here I explain !!!!!. The reactor, turbine and generator perform all the separated functions of the individual devices in one device, but at different stages of the transformation of the dynamic flow of ordinary environmental matter. In other words, the processes are not scattered across various devices, but combined in one. I hope it is clear !!?

[atalef]

Quote: gridasov

Are you kidding or really missing words while reading

I have not forgotten how to read energy in 30 years

Quote: gridasov

The function of the generator is the creation of an alternating magnetic flux in the windings located in the stator and rotor

can it be easier? So that people don’t powder their brains. The generator generates an alternating electric current 9 DC generators I hope we will not remember)

Quote: gridasov

The essence of the turbine (for nuclear power plants) in the conversion of steam pressure from the reactor

steam from a steam generator (i.e. a heat exchanger) of the secondary circuit

Quote: gridasov

at the moment of rotation on the shaft of this turbine and further through the shaft to the generator

The turbine and generator are always !!!! located on the same shaft or connected by a rigid coupling or an air coupling in gas turbines

Quote: gridasov

So here I explain !!!!!. The reactor, turbine and generator perform all the separated functions of the individual devices in one device, but at different stages of the transformation of the dynamic flow of ordinary environmental matter.

But could not be said simply - energy conversion?
What are you powdering people’s brains here?

Quote: gridasov

In other words, the processes are not scattered across various devices, but combined in one. I hope it is clear !!?

Of course, different types of energy are scattered across different devices.
1. Reactor - energy of radioactive decay. it is converted into heat and heats the first (radioactive circuit) coolant
2. primary coolant (already thermal energy 0 by heat transfer heats the clean and desalted water of the second circuit 9 to the state of superheated dry steam)
3. Dry steam escaping from nozzles under pressure (converting thermal energy into mechanical energy) striking the blades of a high-pressure turbine gives up its energy and rotates the turbine. when cooling and losing pressure, it enters the low-pressure circuit of the turbine and finally cools and loses pressure, it enters the economizer. where it is drained and fed back to the primary circuit for heating.
4. a rotating turbine, mechanical energy - rotating and twisting the windings of the generator (of course, you need to remember the pathogen. Otherwise, who will create the primary magnetic field) - creates an alternating magnetic field and the directional movement of electrons in it (converting mechanical energy into electrical)
5. Further, electrons in a magnetic field moving in a conductor. to your apartment. where you turned on the electric kettle - converted electrical energy into heat, drank tea. and hopefully read it. my not difficult opus.
Teach materiel

Quote: gridasov

I hope it is clear !!?

to me yes, but to you?

[kashtak]

Quote: gridasov

The essence of the turbine (for nuclear power plants) is to convert the vapor pressure from the reactor at the moment of rotation on the shaft of this turbine and then through the shaft to the generator.

how are you going to get steam without a heat exchanger? and cooling? also without? explain to the peasant.

[gridasov]

And why do the extra work of converting steam energy at the moment of rotation on the turbine shaft? The processes of "cooling" are expressed by another term of the combined process, and the next stage also does not contradict the known cyclical physical processes. In addition, they are fully combined with the fact that these processes create the kinetic energy of the flow, which also compensates for the expended energy. An algorithm is used for the total transformation energy of the potential energy of the flow substance and its kinetic energy. Such operating conditions of the turbine allow performing a very important function - process control. It is always possible to obtain a potential much higher than in the "fusion of decay" of radioactive materials and at the same time to obtain complete controllability of the regulation of the process at key stages.

[atalef]

Quote: gridasov

And why do the extra work of converting steam energy at the time of rotation on the turbine shaft

Translate the phrase, otherwise my brain has boiled

Quote: gridasov

"Cooling" processes are expressed by another term of the combined process,

and from what do you think the steam in the turbine is cooled?

Quote: gridasov

that these processes create kinetic energy of the flow, which also compensates for the energy expended

would you write novels. and without verbiage, in a language plebeian understandable can you?

Quote: gridasov

Such operating conditions of the turbine allow performing a very important function - process control. It is always possible to obtain a potential much higher than in the "fusion of decay" of radioactive materials and at the same time to obtain complete controllability of the regulation of the process at key stages.

(+) You, it’s necessary to manage to write 3 lines not to say not only something intelligible, but in general to create a seemingly interconnected, but not saying set of words.
Do you happen to write a speech to officials?

[gridasov]

You are an intelligent person and you correctly understood that I am not trying to teach those people who do not deal with these issues. I'm looking for people who only need a thought so that they go the right way. "Smart people don't explain to each other - they give direction to reasoning."

[atalef]

Quote: gridasov

You are an intelligent person and you correctly understood that I am not trying to teach those people who do not deal with these issues. I'm looking for people who only need a thought so that they go the right way. "Smart people don't explain to each other - they give direction to reasoning."

A smart person will always find a way to explain complex things in simple language.
Think about it.

[Wedmak]

Alexander, this person in my opinion is not from our universe. What he says nobody understands. This set of words has never in my memory even coincided with school physics textbooks.
What, to whom and why is he trying to say something unknown. So I made a conclusion.

[Xsanchez]

Where does the Carnot principle go in your case?

[Rostislav]

The idea is great, but the deadlines are painfully tight. Or is there a reserve that is modestly silent about?
God help you!

[Russia]

In the USSR, an atomic strategic bomber in an atomic reactor was tested and FLYED! The tests took place at the Engels airbase.
So that experience is considerable!
Let's do it.

[AndreyS]

Quote: Rossi-Ya

In the USSR, an atomic strategic bomber in an atomic reactor was tested and FLYED!

In the USSR there was even a car powered by a nuclear engine! And not one !!!!!

https://www.drive2.ru/b/1827051/
"... "Volga-Atom" In April 1965, the car drove to a test site near Seversky ..."

[AllXVahhaB]

I did not know ... Directly some Fallout)))

[HollyGremlin]

I read the article with pleasure, it’s very disappointing about the rink, now I would come in handy (

[diglator]

... maybe it was just a reactor that he carried with him, like the American NB-36?

[Rader]

With an atomic-powered aircraft, on a Tu-95 Bose, an example is not the best ... I would not say that a "bomber" is rather a flying laboratory at the Tushka base ... A ramjet engine was installed on it, which turned the territories over which the plane flew, into the "ecological disaster" zone. If memory serves, then after the first flight the project was closed ...

[Xsanchez]

It is unclear how is this direct-flow? Missile chtoli?

[Gunther]

The thing is undoubtedly arch-essential, especially for the Far East and the Far North, for our Crimea, by itself.
It’s only strange that they remembered the project later
half a century.
But a stationary nuclear power plant has the highest level of protection against external influences (from an earthquake to the fall of an airliner), and professional security.
For the mobile complex of nuclear power plants to provide adequate protection is a problem.

[Rader]

I would not say that the problem of providing protection in the workplace is so great. Since this is a project primarily for the military, there should be no problems with the security (prepared and numerous). As for the "external influence" (the fall of the aeroplane / rocket / bomb / projectile), no one says that the nuclear power plant will flock in the open air, you can always build caponiers, etc. But during transportation, yes, you have to be extremely vigilant ...

[Mountain shooter]

The reserve is submarine reactors. Fully autonomous, with a load of a dozen (or maybe more) years, generating not only electricity, but also the heat needed for the northern garrisons. It is clear why such a thing must be transportable, the supply will go by landing ships, and such a thing must be unloaded either by drag or self-propelled through a landing ramp.

[3vs]

Well, that confirms my idea that in the north the army will be provided with heat and
electricity such installations.

[Gunther]

atalef Quote:
... I wonder how long her reindeer herders for metal will pull away?

You should not compare our conscious reindeer herders with your thieving goats, even if you, in Israel, have negative experiences, be more positive :-)

[Mestny]

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

The Curiosity rover (mass 899 kg): "The 100 W power subsystem is based on a radioisotope thermoelectric generator that uses the decay process of plutonium-238 dioxide with a total mass of 4,8 kg as an energy source."

Obviously, the project means a "classic" reactor with a coolant of one type or another, such as on a nuclear submarine.
And with power of course not 100 watts.
So a breakthrough is not only for Russia

[Mikhail Krapivin]

To each major American city at such a station in order of sponsorship. With short circuit timers enabled.

[dakty]

Good old RTGs, but apparently with modern technology. With the rover is not the best comparison. In the 60s we had such RITEGs, only harder, but they were for the Earth, and not for Mars, where radio and heat protection are not important. Plus RTGs in their unattended and unpretentiousness. Minus - very low efficiency

[Vladimir K]

All this is of course interesting, but it looks like it will result in another "cut". The whole situation in technical terms can be described as follows. If we take, for example, an internal combustion engine, then in a real cycle, about 1/3 of the fuel energy goes to useful work, 1/3 is emitted into the atmosphere, 1/3 is taken by the radiator. Nuclear steam power plant - closed cycle plant, efficiency about 40%, i.e. 60% of the useful power in the form of thermal energy will need to be diverted to the environment. For these purposes, the nuclear power plant uses the water located near the reservoir, or the energy is dissipated through a cooling tower. The dimensions of the reservoir or cooling tower are understandable, so MAE cannot be used everywhere. Further problems with biological protection. The mass is great, and it will have to be carried everywhere. Safety. In an emergency, it will be necessary to cool down the reactor for more than one day. Where to get refrigerant and energy for the cooling pumps. If it is military, then it is possible to undermine the installation with a rupture of the 1st circuit and boiling (if VVRD) of water in the reactor and then a thermal explosion. With LMC (lead-bismuth, sodium) there will be no less problems both in terms of operation and in terms of safety (there will be more problems with depressurization of dirt). This is only a part of what, in principle, cannot be solved. Add to this the presence of a turbine, a condenser of the 2nd circuit, a turbine generator, an electric power piping - it will not seem a little. And the MAE scheme in monoblock design (proposed by some authors) does not stand up to criticism, since it is impossible to combine incompatible.

[Wedmak]

All this is of course interesting, but it looks like it will result in another "cut".

Technology does not stand still. See which compact reactors are being built for submarines. A nuclear reactor is, in simplified terms, a bonfire heating a heating medium. What will be this coolant - water, sodium or a thermocouple, is not the point. It is quite possible to close the core tightly in a small volume, leading out only the control circuit and the first cooling circuit. Electronics has stepped far forward, control can be made almost completely automatic.
So I do not see any theoretical problems. The only problem is technology and engineering solutions are protected and receive electricity.

[Vladimir K]

Firstly, in addition to the reactor, the equipment includes: GTsNPK, steam generator, pumps of the 2nd circuit, turbine, condenser, condenser cooling circuit (3rd circuit), turbine generator, etc. For information, efficiency thermocouples about 3%. Electronics are electronics, but if a person’s blood circulation circuit doesn’t work, then the brain will not help. Comments are not valuable in themselves. Specialist comments are important.

[Wedmak]

In addition to the reactor, the equipment includes:

Well, on the submarine it fit in a rather compact volume. Well, yes, like an 5-story building, so there is in addition to the reactor and all the circuits, what dofig there are - weapons, life support systems and more.
Do you not believe in the possibility of creating such a mobile nuclear power plant?

[xtur]

> Well, on the submarine, it fits into a fairly compact volume.

the reactor core is very compact - a cylinder about 3m high and 2-3m in diameter


the rest are related systems needed to safely convert this heat to electricity

[xtur]

> Well, on the submarine, it fits into a fairly compact volume.

the reactor core is very compact - a cylinder about 3m high and 2-3m in diameter


the rest are related systems needed to safely convert this heat to electricity

[Lee_Mubai]

I think this mobile nuclear power plant is perfect for laser weapons, which consume a huge amount of email. energy !!!

[ZAV69]

In general, the problem is then solved, if the first nuclear bomb barely fit into the bomber, now the nuclear bomb is in the form of a 152 mm shell. So the development of a power plant with a capacity of 500 kilowatts that fits in the kung and the size of the reactor itself with about a suitcase is essentially a matter of time and money.

[atalef]

Quote: ZAV69

So the development of a power plant with a capacity of 500 kilowatts that fits in the kung and the size of the reactor itself with about a suitcase is essentially a matter of time and money.

If you take an electrician, then the last discovery was in my opinion in 1905.
Power energy has not changed much since the basic constants are stiff and at least turn over, but to drive a current over 1 amperes through 4 mm square copper so that the conductor does not heat up to 65 degrees (I do not take into account forced cooling) is not possible.
This is why everything dances.
Of course, I understand that now everyone will break loose and start yelling about high-temperature superconductivity - maybe when it will.
In the meantime, this is just talk.
Until there is a breakthrough in conductors and insulating materials - all this verbiage about the most powerful power plants in a suitcase, on wheels, etc. - will remain empty talk.

[ZAV69]

Well, if you take the most ordinary GMC700 diesel generator for 500 kilowatts, which weighs 5 tons and fits in a kung, discard the diesel from it and replace it with a rector with a turbine, then in principle we will get the same thing, only you will not need 100 liters of diesel fuel every hour, a small village for the eyes. The problem is solved .... The question is money and desire

[atalef]

Quote: ZAV69

Well, if you take the most ordinary 700 kilowatt GMC500 diesel generator that weighs 5 tons

open version, 7 tons in a casing

Quote: ZAV69

discard the diesel from it and replace it with a rector with a turbine, then in principle we will get the same

not work out

Quote: ZAV69

just do not need him 100 liters of diesel every hour

He will not need anything, maybe what you wrote is impracticable

Quote: ZAV69

The question is money and desire

Well, of course, spending $ 100 billion and creating an entire industry - you can certainly save something very small - deer will like it.
For this money alone, it would be possible to provide the whole tundra with electricity much easier.

[for_White_Only]

Quote: zennon

Quote: atalef

in the Crimea began to build the Crimean nuclear power plant. simply because of the reactor of the same type with Chernobyl.

Do not talk nonsense! At the Crimean NPP, 2 VVER-1000 reactors (Water-Water Power Reactor) were built. The first was ready by 80%, and the second by 18%. In Chernobyl there are 4 RBMK-1000 reactors (High Power Channel Reactor). Chernobyl of course influenced, but the main thing was that by the end of the 80s, as a result of "perestroika", her mother, the country ran out of money. In 1987, the construction site was closed and the station began to be pulled apart ...

Only to be honest, the money ran out before perestroika, in 82

[for_White_Only]

Quote: atalef

Quote: i80186

Quote: atalef

Actually water. What do you think? Do you know what is principle carnot? 7 primary and secondary cooling circuit

No, actually. .

I did not doubt it

Quote: i80186

For example, think about how the processor in your computer dissipates 50 watts using a fan and a hefty aluminum radiator, and a soldering iron does the same without it.

A head that would be in it

Quote: i80186

Thermodynamics - she is, yes

Victim of the exam

Prince Carnot? victim ege)

[atalef]

Quote: for_White_Only

Prince Carnot? victim ege)

I can, I'm 25 years old abroad.

[Aleksandr2012]

Here, many of the knowledge in physics remained at the level of the elementary grades, while others turn into verbally paranoid delirium. And you tell them about the Carnot cycle)))

[Dikson]

Lord, it seems that the MO is frantically raking everything off the shelves, just to grab a piece of the budget .. What is the dispute about ?! In our country, so much electricity is generated free of charge ... Nuclear technology is a very serious production .. What warrant officers and sergeants will serve such systems? Regarding the far north and military points, even in Antarctica, tell me, but what prevents you from simply taking the already developed, proven compartments from nuclear submarines, and putting them on a pontoon, for example? And the technologies are spent, and the equipment is already there .. the boat is outdated, the reactor compartment was cut out, it was put on the pontoon and towed to the right place .. As for the tracked monster - You know, in the 60-70s, sorry, our scientists and military In my opinion, they were much more adequate, unlike the current Skolkovo sawers .. Rosatom is constantly developing new reactor protection systems, and here .. - a mobile bomb .. On tracks .. And what to do with it if an elementary "goat" happens? Climb in the middle of the road with your bare hands? And what about the weight? on what bridge will these radiant boxes pass ..?

[Wedmak]

What ensigns and sergeants will service such systems?

They will create a separate nuclear power regiment in the engineering forces, with trained officers. Business then. On the submarine, not the ensigns are watching the reactor ..

But what prevents just taking already developed, proven compartments from the nuclear submarines, and putting them on a pontoon, for example?

It interferes with the fact that a steam generator with a turbine must be screwed to these compartments. and to them also a generator. And a management system. Do we have many similar blocks? How to check the life of a cut reactor? And a bunch of similar questions.

and here .. - a mobile bomb .. On tracks .. And what to do with it if an elementary "goat" happens? Climb in the middle of the road with your bare hands? And what about the weight? on what bridge will these radiant boxes pass ..?

It is unlikely that one machine will be more than 55 tons. Tanks also carry railway transport. Tutu is the same garbage.
Well, if something happens. Are there many accidents on the submarine? I think, nevertheless, this installation will move with the reactor turned off, the danger is minimal. And on the spot, a system of protective structures will be deployed.

[Dikson]

what's the point then in tracked (wheeled) mobility? The reactor is not a diesel engine, you won’t get it into operation in three minutes and you won’t extinguish it like a cigarette butt .. Ugum .. a system of protective structures .. -the company’s construction battalion drags lead bricks and wraps four tracked conveyors with polyethylene finger thick .. Drivers of tractors will in lead underpants, but you don’t have to shave ..)

[Wedmak]

what's the point then in tracked (wheeled) mobility?

The point is not to use another technique. Let's say the ice airfield - winter came, the ice got up, they locked the mobile nuclear power plant with ships, put it where necessary, connected it. Everyone is happy. But then they saw that the ice cracked ... it does not matter, rolled back to another place.
Another example has already been voiced here - a new weapon. But still I think they will be more focused on the Arctic - there is electricity and heat, it is life and comfort. To build a stationary object in permafrost is another challenge. A helicopter will not lift more than 20 tons.

[Dikson]

The ice airfield is completely serviced by a conventional diesel station .. Besides, every military station, whether it is an RCF, RSBN or PRMG, has its own independent power sources .. Why a nuclear power plant if a regular diesel generator manages ?? ??! Ponty clumsy ..

[Old26]

Actually an interesting counting system

“Preliminary data on the project should be submitted to the military department by the end of the year,” Konyushko specified. - Then, according to the procedure, we are entering a full-fledged R & D project, which will end with a technical project, this is a year or two. Then we go out on the experimental design work and the manufacture of a prototype. We have to submit it in four to five years, that is, to 2020 year. "

According to him, it is also necessary to prepare mass production for 2020, since now "there is no production base that would serially produce these things."

Preliminary data by the end of the year. Full-fledged research - 1,5-2 years, plus OCD and the manufacture of a prototype of 4-5 years. Research will begin in 2016 PLUS two years - 2018. Plus FIVE years - 2023 (to the maximum). At least 1,5 plus 4 = 5,5 years. 2016 PLUS 5,5 - almost 2022. And how he wants to with such terms in 2020 will receive. Plus, there is no production base yet. Will they succeed in 4 years? Jokers

Quote: arane

Not only boats, all ships and vessels with nuclear power plants are prohibited in the World Cup

Quite right. Because of this, during the Sochi Olympics, "Peter" was forced to stay in the Mediterranean and carry out his mission while there. Call, and only for the repair of EMNIP, is possible only if the ship (vessel) was built in the countries of the Black Sea basin. for example, if "Ulyanovsk" was built, he would have the right to go to Nikolaev for repairs

Quote: shans2

haha, already in the 60s there was TES-3, and in the 80s there were two more advanced TES-7,8, which were cut a year after Chernobyl, having only time to experience a year ...

But only TES-3 EMNIP also did not work long, it seems until 1966, because, as they say phonyl

Quote: KazaK Bo

Do it done! The only question is - who and how will protect this object ... primarily from terrorist attacks ... or simply - from shelling with a 120 mm mortar or howitzer .... not to mention high-precision missile defense ...

Chukchi reindeer ride a mortar? Or howitzer at once?

Quote: MIKHAN

I’m sure that this is not science fiction, but reality! Kulibins in Russia did not go extinct and see the drawings for a long time gathering dust in the table (in Khrushchev) ... Well, God forbid! The right thing for our vast territories ...

This is still fantastic. Only suggestions, then R&D, then R&D. And where to do it yet. How many will be done per year? 2 or 3 nobody knows. Or is it the same amount (2-3) in 2-3 years? And the declared amount of 30 pieces is at best 10 years. And even then, first tests, and for at least a year, and then "we'll see"

[Old26]

Quote: Irokez

Well, not so much a breakthrough as miniaturization. For example, the spent block of a nuclear submarine that was written off is cut out with a compartment and adjusted to the point of need by water, and you can give electricity.

Quote: 34 region

In my opinion, in the USSR they were going to make a floating power station. Type for the north.

And should have been called "North"

Quote: ZAV69

In general, the problem is then solved, if the first nuclear bomb barely fit into the bomber, now the nuclear bomb is in the form of a 152 mm shell. So the development of a power plant with a capacity of 500 kilowatts that fits in the kung and the size of the reactor itself with about a suitcase is essentially a matter of time and money.

Actually, the charge and the reactor are slightly different from each other. Cooling, biosecurity, control system will also need to be attached to this "suitcase"

[Dikson]

As far as I know, the Northern Lights were carried out along the Northern Sea Route (albeit with wintering) back in 1971-72 ... I had a photo somewhere .. it was specifically a floating power plant ..
maintenance cost of such a unit ?? Okay, they took them to the islands in the Arctic, powered the base .. -wonderful .. Reactors actually take place twice a year .. How to carry it out there? How to transfer fuel? Or is it stupid to drown the waste in the ocean? Reactor without maintenance .. control through satellite .. Yeah .. and so that the satellite is one for all reactors .. - to drown it out, and a lot of Chernobyls in all military bases .. and there is no need to fight .. Sorry, but my opinion is such things should be stationary, protected and independent in management .. We know such "batteries" ... -a couple of acquaintances with the beam as a result of maintenance .. Here you will not be saved with an "awl" ..

[Vintcsent]

Hmm ... but they are needed for something specific !!! It’s just that money is not invested in the army, which means there is a reason why this MOBILE station is needed ..... There’s a big field for thought))) Hah)) For example, charge the Exoskeleton ...

[leon1204id]

http://maxpark.com/community/4532/content/1431617
Description of a miniature 25 megawatt nuclear reactor and a size of 1,5 meters! Now Available.
And Russia has been harnessing for a long time: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2406087
Perhaps we also have projects of portable generators with a capacity of 25-30 MW.
After all, no one thought that "Caliber" would fly 1500 km (according to other sources, up to 2600 km)
Our designers always speak Aesopian language, maximum - "Wait for surprises"

[atalef]

Quote: leon1204id

http://maxpark.com/community/4532/content/1431617
Description of a miniature 25 megawatt nuclear reactor and a size of 1,5 meters! Now Available.

Well, there are a few things with which you did not mention and with which I would argue
25mW - not enough for 20t families.
Metal coolant reactor
Dimensions not indicated
Well, development (only a project) - and no sale at all --- much less pay in bucks. The company is American.

[C2H5OH]

Good and necessary technology. And in a peaceful life is very useful. TTX would hear. Just need to think that all sorts of bandits could not be used as a dirty bomb.

Quote: leon1204id

http://maxpark.com/community/4532/content/1431617
Description of a miniature 25 megawatt nuclear reactor and a size of 1,5 meters! Now Available.
А

Well, as far as I know, no one has a reactor (worker) with a liquid metal coolant (coolant reactors). Except Russia, no one now possesses and implements these technologies)))
Here is an example www.nikiet.ru/images/stories/NIKIET/Tematika/Bystrie_reaktory/brest_rus.pdf
The heat carrier is lead. Very promising technology.

[alessio]

http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/70040/

[Svetlana]

Of all types of gas turbines for mini-nuclear power plants, helium turbines have the smallest mass-dimensional characteristics. To cool helium at the exhaust of a helium turbine, helium-water heat exchangers have the smallest mass and size characteristics, similar to those used in the Saber engine of a Skylon hypersonic airplane, or in the pre-cooler of the Scimitar engine. A diagram of a helium-air heat exchanger is shown in the figure.

[Svetlana]

Scimitar engine helium-air heat exchanger module

[Svetlana]

Viper engine pre-heat exchanger module

[Svetlana]

In internal combustion engines to increase efficiency Ceramic cylinders have long been used. Ceramic heat exchangers made of SiC ceramics or metal tubes with ceramic coating are also promising for heat exchangers of mini-nuclear power plants to increase their service life. Ceramic heat exchangers have high temperature resistance, which allows to increase the temperature of the compressed hot helium at the entrance to the gas turbine and increase the efficiency NPP. In the photo - ceramic helium-air heat exchangers made by chemical bonding and extrusion. Photos of helium-air heat exchangers see at http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/tech_docs/Heat%20exchanger%20development%20at%2


0REL%20IAC%2008%20C4.5.2.pdf

[korvin1976]

In fact, they did not come up with anything particularly new, such things were created earlier. Moreover, the picture for the article just shows one of these settings.

http://www.gradremstroy.ru/news/samoxodnaya-atomnaya-elektrostanciya-maloj-moshh
nosti.html

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%28%D0%90%D0%AD%D0%
A1% 29

The fact that they again decided to take up such a development is, of course, excellent. Important help.
Again, if you manage to reduce the weight and dimensions, and increase the output power, it will be just super.
New, this is well forgotten old

[Gilev georgy]

One I thought of electromagnetic guns?

[Alexxeg73]

I also thought that you could stir up some kind of laser or something more energy-intensive. Do you imagine the means of electronic warfare on such an energy?

[Gilev georgy]

Reb on such an energy, it seems to me, is dangerous for personnel. A comrade served as a signalman, talking about tropospheric transmitters and yellow grass around

[Boris Zidkov]

Valery Leontyev’s parents have reindeer herding vets. They also dragged flowers in the tundra at the time. They have one dream of bringing more color to the country and dumping them in one country. You can’t see them on the map, but it’s flying to the tundra.

[Samarin]

“At first, such facilities need at least 30 for the regions of the Far North, the Arctic archipelago. They can be delivered to their home base by airplanes or helicopters, ”said Konyushko.

That's right, come on, litter the "regions of the Far North" and "Arctic archipelagos" with radiation, otherwise it probably isn't there yet.

[misterwulf]

Really cool! A couple of these to us in the Crimea for sea trials! It is necessary to experience, but it will not be superfluous to us. True, IMHO here you will need a battalion of chemical protection to begin with.

[user3970]

Once upon a time, in a past life, he served on Novaya Zemlya, a separate polar air defense radio engineering regiment. So: the military on Novaya Zemlya in a past life - Rogachi airfield, anti-aircraft missile regiment, Beluzhka (Belushya Guba), garrison, hospital, several military units of various branches of the military. Further military points throughout the territory of Novaya Zemlya and Franz Josef Land, mainly air defense (radar). Separate song Matochkin ball (Black point). Those who are in the know know what the civilian spies were doing there. An interesting topic is the air defense point on the islands of Franz Josef Land (served). People, just imagine how much and what is needed to heat and supply electricity to this horde all year round! (without touching Matochkin's ball)? And I would like to separately ask professionals on this topic. What is cold fusion? At one time there was a lot of noise, then the thermonuclear pros began to die in a strange way and mysteriously disappear. But even the Moskvich car with a thermonuclear engine was produced in a small series and was demonstrated at one of the international exhibitions. And Toyota tried to stir up something on an international scale and they say one of the reasons for the Fukushima explosion was the destruction of the company’s material base (conspiracy theory) . Enlighten the sucker.

[Vladimir K]

Cold Fusion is a story about how someone in the kitchen was able to start a fusion reaction. Do you think the wind is because the trees are swaying? But seriously, the fusion reaction requires a temperature of millions of degrees (in the center of the sun), or it can be created for a short time in a bomb by detonating a nuclear charge. All attempts to create a controlled long-term reaction under terrestrial conditions (TOKAMAK) have not yet been crowned with success. And it looks like it will last for a long time.

[IAlex]

“It is planned to be created by 2020” - this expression is not compatible with reality. It would be better if this guy who plans to create something there first created it, and then wrote about the crap he created...

[Alexander Tot]

This is a shadow and a fence - batteries for microwave guns, electronic warfare and other inconveniences for those who like to bark at Russia and reliably crash Pindsovsky flying scarecrows onto the ground.

[Diviz]

Quote: venaya

Quote: Wedmak

.. we were told in physics that the current goes along the surface of the conductor, there is no current inside. Although the directional movement of electrons is.

"current flows along the surface of the conductor"- they meant only alternating current. Direct current flows over the entire area of ​​the conductor, with alternating current is more complicated. There, due to losses due to" Foucault currents "(losses occur due to the occurrence of electromagnetic disturbance inside the conductor), the resistance increases sharply with increasing frequency. Therefore, in microwave devices, waveguides were used earlier, hollow inside, then the power losses were significantly reduced. My opinion: school education needs to be improved.

I finished school a long time ago. New technologies in electricity were shown on TV. so the current there is constant.

[Skifotavr]

“The units will be created on a modular basis and, depending on the size and power, placed on a MAZ or KamAZ wheeled chassis, and in Arctic conditions - on a sleigh.”

Isn't it better to just have a tracked chassis?

[Balagan]

It will be great if they implement it.

[Ivan Ivanovich]

Then you can safely spank combat lasers...

[Ivan Ivanovich]

The most interesting thing was invented in the USSR!!!!

[onix757]

They can’t complete the construction of the floating nuclear power plant, they can’t restore production of the Tu-160, and then there’s this fantasy. First, you need to recreate the industry to a level that would allow you to implement all Soviet developments, and then dream. Today we cannot master what was produced 30-40 years ago, and as usual there are a huge number of plans.

[fa2998]

Quote: xtur

The minimum size of the reactor is determined by its critical size (and the thickness of the required bioprotection), and it is very small.

Bioprotection - yes, but we are talking about MILITARY. That is, the power plant may be in danger from the outside. And if it is hit by a grenade launcher (ATGM), or an missile launcher or an aviation KAB. New Chernobyl! Modern nuclear power plants are designed for the safe fall of a passenger aircraft on them - little- or what. And you are going to war with a reactor!! The reactor protection of large surface ships is quite strong, and a whole group of ships contributes there. For a nuclear submarine, the protection is the thickness of the water above it. And look at the mass. And here on a tank, maximum size is 50 tons.

[Dan Slav]

Electric guns with batteries.? Laser beam weapon? Jammers on the front?
What will we eat?
Although there is definitely a problem!

[vit357]

Hmm))) interesting, under the article there are plus and minus ratings, under almost every article there are downvotes. And who are they? Who isn’t glad that mobile nuclear power plants will appear in Russia?))) Laughter to the curds!

[Beard31]

Cool thing, a mobile electric generator that does not require the supply of hydrocarbon fuel. Such a generator allows the military to quickly deploy a base with its electricity consumers: utility units, radars, lighting, heating, communications, residential modules, powering a number of engineering equipment for construction.

Also, customers of a mobile nuclear power generator can be: the Ministry of Emergency Situations, oil and gas companies (for the rapid deployment of infrastructure for exploration or extraction of resources).

The main advantage of a mobile electric generator running on nuclear fuel is
simplification of the logistics chain in the form of the supply of diesel fuel or fuel oil for the operation of the generator, as well as a much lower cost per kilowatt hour.

The main disadvantage of a nuclear power generator is its radiation hazard to the environment, and here it is important to work out the protection of the reactor, taking into account the fact that the installation is mobile and can be subject to shock loads, such as off-road driving, and the possibility of colliding with obstacles and even turning over.

In general, if the issues of operation and safety are worked out at the proper level, then I am for it. Moreover, nuclear reactions are a normal natural phenomenon in space and on earth.

[chinelev. v]

If there were more such power plants, maybe electricity tariffs wouldn’t jump so high.

[Beard31]

To do this, the entire cabinet of ministers must be sent to the uranium mines to collect fuel to power a self-running nuclear samovar! ))) Tariffs will stop jumping and begin a natural decline to the level of adequate economic reality.

[Robert Nevsky]

EEEEE, super, cool!

[wizarden]

The thing is very promising, very popular not only among the military. It should have been done a long time ago. In general, we need to invest our strength where we are strong, where we can get ahead. Atom is the right place.

[Kopeikin]

The news in the article is empty in my opinion. So we can expect the appearance of railguns, teleports and OBHRs in the RF Armed Forces. This smacks of a blatant waste of funds allocated for the modernization of the defense industry.
Py.Sy.: before you reflexively downvote a comment, think about what consequences the failure of this unit or its destruction by the enemy will lead to??? In the end, how much will it cost (it’s clearly not the blacksmith Vasily who will make it with his finger)? The article is post-punk.