Military Review

Memorial falsifies

Memorial falsifiesIn recent years, Russia has been trying to deprive it of its place in the world. storiesby putting "in the corner" for the so-called "historical crimes". In this regard, Poland is especially zealous, which has compiled a whole list of Russian “crimes” against the Poles, beginning in the 16th and 20th centuries. The central place in the anti-Russian Polish martyrology is the Katyn crime, whose victims in Poland are 21.857 Polish citizens who allegedly died in 1940 from the hands of the NKVD of the USSR.

The Polish authorities were able to present this tragedy as something more terrible than the Nazi atrocities, the victims of which were the millions of Poles tortured to death in German concentration camps. Although most of the Katyn victims are missing.

17 September 2015 in Poland celebrated the 76 anniversary of the “treacherous” attack of the USSR in 1939. On this day, in the presence of Polish President Andrzej Duda and Prime Minister Eva Kopach, the Katyn Museum was opened in the Warsaw Citadel. Speaking at the opening, Polish Defense Minister Tomash Semonyak said: “There are things sacred to the Poles. They transcend the boundaries of ordinary history, and our national memory is built on them. These include Katyn. ”

Somewhat later, the Polish president laid flowers at the monument to the "Killed and killed in the east" - in memory of 21 to a thousand Polish prisoners who were allegedly shot by the NKVD in 1940. Speaking at the monument, A. Duda returned to the topic of genocide. The new Polish president stated that the Katyn crime, the purpose of which was to destroy the Polish people, should be called genocide.

Questionable Book of Memory

Do not lag behind the Polish Russophobes Russian "liberals". September of this year's 17 The Memorial Human Rights Center gave a presentation in Moscow of the 930-page book Memory Killed in Katyn. It contains a list of names and biographical references ("biograms") of 4.415 Polish officers, who are considered to be buried in the Polish Katyn Memorial near Smolensk.

The Memory Book was presented as a new page in the assessment of the Katyn crime, although it only repeats the book “Katyn. Ksiega Cmentarna Polskiego Cmentarza Wojennego ", published in Warsaw in 2000

The perpetuation of the memory of the dead has always been considered a noble and necessary thing, if it did not pursue goals that were far from being proclaimed.

Unfortunately, the Katyn Memory Book presented by the Memorial can be regarded as an ideological sabotage against Russia, which gives a new impetus to the battered Katyn theme in the world anti-Russian campaign.
In this regard, I will speak on the name of the book of Memory. It sounds "KILLED IN KATYNI. The memory book of Polish prisoners of war of prisoners of the Kozel camp of the NKVD, who were shot by decision of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) of 5 in March of 1940. ” Such a wording of the name contradicts the official legal version of the Katyn events set forth in the Memoranda of the Russian Ministry of Justice, submitted to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in 2010 and 2012.

And the multi-page preface to the Book of Memory defiantly ignores the results of Soviet and Russian research in Katyn, since it is mainly based on the results of 1943 exhumations faked by German Nazis. It is generously seasoned with photographs from the Official Materials on the Katyn massacres (“Amtliches Material zummememusm von Katyn ”), published in Berlin in 1943

The second substantive core of the book of Memory, published by Memorial, as mentioned above, are the 4.415 biograms of the Katyn victims. Of these, 2.815 victims, or 63,8%, were identified by the Nazis in 1943. In fact, this is propaganda of the Nazi version of the Katyn case and the rehabilitation of Nazi crimes.

In the post-war period, the Polish side, voluntarily developing Nazi approaches to identification, managed to bring the list of “reliably identified” Katyn victims to 4.071. I note that identification in Polish consists in finding the name of a Polish officer in the NKVD prescription lists.

If someone is listed on the shipment from the Kozelsky camp of the NKVD to the Smolensk UNKVD, he, in the opinion of the Polish "identifiers", was certainly shot in the Katyn forest. As a result, these so-called “identified” were perpetuated by the Polish side with personal tablets placed in the Katyn memorial complex.

In the book of Memory, 4.415 already appears in this way of the “identified” Katyn victims. The question arises. How legitimate is this identification and how does it relate to the Russian official legal version of the Katyn events? More on this later.

The Book of Memory also ignores the decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal 1946 in terms of the responsibility of the Nazi leaders for the Katyn crime. It is known that the Katyn episode at the Nuremberg trial, according to the file stored in the State Archive of the Russian Federation, was personally incriminated to two defendants - Nazi No. 2, Hermann Göring, and head of the operational command of the Wehrmacht High Command Alfred Jodl.

In the reasoning part of the Tribunal’s Verdict on the charges against G. Goering and A. Jodl, it is noted that there are no extenuating circumstances in relation to them. That is the responsibility for the Katyn episode of the Nuremberg Tribunal laid on the Nazi leaders.
This is an irrefutable fact. By the way, the Grand Chamber of the ECHR was forced to agree with this fact, which in its Resolution on 21.10.2013 in the case of Janowiec and Others against Russia did not repeat the Resolution of the Fifth Section from 16.04.2012, in terms of asserting that the Nuremberg Tribunal allegedly rejected the Soviet accusation the Nazis in the Katyn crime.

What is the book of memory waiting for Russia?

In addition to the above, a number of questions arise. For whom and for what has Memorial published the Katyn memory book in Russia? The objectives of the book say that it must ensure the recognition of Polish prisoners of war shot by victims of political repression. However, it is clear that the photographs of the victims and their brief biographies will not solve this problem. They will only allow book compilers to receive the next Polish state awards and new grants. No more.

Another major task of the book was to provide the Russians with the personalities of those killed in Katyn. Noble. But it’s very similar to the propaganda in Russia of the myth that the NKVD in 1940 destroyed 21 a thousand representatives of the Polish elite, although it is known that in 1939, thousands of Poles were taken prisoner in the Soviet Union who were somewhat prominent in polish society. And a lot of them survived.

Further. Why did Russia need to publish in Russian a book of biographies of Polish citizens killed or missing during the Second World War? After all, this is of interest mainly to Polish relatives of the victims. And such a book in Polish, as stated, has already been published in Poland.

At the same time, Memorial is not interested in the fate of 80 of thousands of Red Army prisoners of war tortured in Polish camps in 1919-1921.
Convincing evidence confirming the deliberate and deliberate policy of the then Polish authorities to create unbearable conditions in the camps aimed at exterminating the Red Army men is set out in the 900-page Russian-Polish collection of documents “Red Army men in Polish captivity 1919-1922,” published in 2004.

By the way, this collection did not dare to publish in Polish. Thus, the Polish side protects from disclosing the myth that no more than 16-18 of thousands of Red Army prisoners allegedly died in the Polish camps. Memorial could eliminate this “white spot” in the relationship between Russians and Poles. Moreover, the Polish side diligently destroys the memory of this story.

But Memorial, in principle, does not want to deal with the fate of the captured "Bolsheviks", as the Red Armymen called it in bourgeois Poland. Well, in that case, why not perpetuate the memory of Russian soldiers and officers who tragically died in the French captivity in 1812?

It is known that in October 1812 the Poles of the Ponyatovsky corps, retreating with Napoleon’s army, were escorted by two thousand Russian prisoners of war. On the approaches to Gzhatsk (now Gagarin), the Polish escorts beat them all with rifle butts.
In his memoirs, General Philip-Paul de Ségur, personal adjutant of the French Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte, wrote about this crime of the Poles with indignation in his memoirs.

De Segura was shocked by the fact that "every prisoner had a head in exactly the same manner and that the bloodied brain was splashed right there." (See F.-P. de Ségur "Hike to Russia. Notes of the adjutant of Emperor Napoleon I." Smolensk, "Rusich", 2003). This tragedy is silent in Russia and, especially, in Poland. Unknown names and names of the dead. They remained nameless.

However, this story does not interest the "Russian" memorials. Put the "Russian" in quotes is not accidental. 21 July 2014. By order of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation No. 1246-r, the Interregional Public Organization Memorial Human Rights Center was recognized as an organization acting as a foreign agent. However, Memorial did not bother it and it continues to successfully perform these functions.

Russian legal version of the Katyn events

The Russian legal version of the Katyn events is set out in the Memorandums of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation, sent to the ECHR in the framework of the case “Janovets and Others v. Russia”. This was the actual consideration of the Katyn case in Strasbourg. The memoranda were based on the results of the 14-year investigation by the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation about the circumstances of the Katyn criminal case No. 159, launched in March 1990 and terminated in September 2004.

Case number XXUMX is so called. "On the execution of Polish prisoners of war from the Kozelsky, Starobelsky and Ostashkovsky special camps of the NKVD in April-May 159." In this title there is the name of the crime “execution” and the time of its implementation “April-May 1940”, which assumed only one perpetrator - the Stalinist leadership of the USSR. Nevertheless, the Russian prosecutors tried to approach the investigation of the Katyn case as objectively as possible.

Brief results of the investigation of criminal case No. XXUMX were officially announced at a press conference of the Chief Military Prosecutor of the Russian Federation A. Savenkov 159 and in a letter to Major General of Justice of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office of the Russian Federation V. Kondratov to the Chairman of the Board of the Memorial Society A. Roginsky from 11.03.2005 g No. 24.03.2005-5-6818. According to these results, “the death as a result of the execution of the“ three ”90 decisions of Polish prisoners of war was established, the identity of the 1803 of them was established”.

Some more details about the investigation in case No. 159 were mentioned in the Memorandum of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation from 19.03.2010. There, in paragraph 25, the following investigative measures are listed: a study of archival documents related to the “Katyn” events (interrogation of numerous witnesses, partial exhumation) burials, conducting forensic examinations of various types, sending requests to the relevant organizations.

In addition, the 61 paragraph of the same Memorandum reported: “... During the investigation, it was found that certain officials from the leadership of the NKVD of the USSR had exceeded the authority granted to this institution, with the result that the so-called“ troika ”made extrajudicial decisions regarding some Polish prisoners of war.

The actions of these officials were qualified as crimes provided for by paragraph “b” of Article 193-17 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR ... ”. I will clarify that clause “b” of Article 193-17 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR provided for liability to the highest measure for abuse of official position under particularly aggravating circumstances.

From the foregoing it follows that at the legal level it is a question of responsibility for making extrajudicial decisions on the execution of Polish prisoners of war not by the Stalinist Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b), but by the then leadership of the NKVD of the USSR.

Accordingly, the title of the Book of Memory, in which the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) Is responsible for shooting at Katyn, is not just incorrect, but unlawful in legal terms.

At the same time, I note that in paragraph 60 of the Memorandum from 19.03.2010, it is stated that “the Russian authorities would like to clarify that they did not investigate the circumstances of the death of the applicants' relatives”.

This was due to the name of the criminal case No. XXUMX, which limited the investigation’s activities to a tight time frame, April-May 159. From this it follows that Russia did not conduct an investigation into the circumstances of the death or disappearance of 1940 Polish citizens during the Second World War.

Therefore, the statements of some Russian historians regarding the perpetrators of the death or disappearance of 21, thousands of Polish citizens on the territory of the USSR during the Second World War, are their personal opinions and cannot be replicated as the final version of the Katyn tragedy, which Memorial has been trying to do for a number of years. The circumstances of the death or disappearance of 21.857 Polish citizens have yet to be investigated.

Nazi falsification at Katyn

It is of interest how the Russian investigation reacted to the results of the Nazi exhumation and identification of 1943. Paragraph 45 of the Memorandum from 19.03.2010 was given its assessment. “With regard to the exhumations of 1943 in the Katyn forest, according to archival documents, the Technical Commission of the Polish Red Cross and the International Commission did not identify the extracted remains in accordance with the requirements of the criminal procedure legislation.”

In paragraph 46 continued this assessment. “The list of persons allegedly identified in 1943 was published in the book Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn, published by the German authorities in the same year. This list is not evidence in criminal case No. 159. ”

However, it is known that the Nazi list of 2815 Polish officers, allegedly identified in Katyn 1943, formed the basis of the list, according to which, as stated, the Polish side made a personal plate for the Katyn memorial to 4071.

On this occasion, in paragraph 9 of the Memorandum from 13.10.2010, it was stated that the plates with the surnames of Polish officers at the Katyn memorial complex cannot serve as evidence of any facts, including the death of Polish citizens, since the Polish side did not appeal to Russia for obtaining or confirming the list of Katyn victims.

It also does not interfere to recall the letter of the Presidium of the Polish Red Cross (PPKK) sent by 12 in October 1943 to the International Committee of the Red Cross. It noted that: “... even if the PAC had all the results of the exhumation and identification work, including documents and memories, she would not be able to officially and definitively testify that these officers were killed in Katyn”.

An irrefutable conclusion about the falsified nature of the Nazi-Polish exhumation and identification at Katyn was made by a professor at the Moscow State University. Lomonosov, doctor of historical sciences Valentin Sakharov.
He investigated the documents of the German secret police that controlled the exhumation process at Katyn, as well as the correspondence of the German Red Cross (SCC), the Polish Red Cross (PAC) and the administration of the Polish General Government regarding the exhumation of Katyn graves in 1943.

Professor Sakharov also revealed the fact that the Nazi exhumations had a “List of interned people in the Kozel camp of the NKVD” captured by the Nazis in July 1941 in the UNKD building in the Smolensk region. This was confirmed by a letter from the Ministry of Propaganda of Germany to the GKK Presidium of 23 on June 1943, in which it was reported that the GKK sent lists of captured Polish officers "discovered in the GPU of Smolensk". They were needed to reconcile them with the German list of exhumed and identified Katyn victims.

Based on these lists, the Nazis were able to provide in Katyn an incredible and unrepeatable result of the identification of human remains - 67,9%. The main conclusion of Professor Sakharov was as follows. In Katyn, the “pimping of unknown corpses with happily acquired documents” was widely practiced, that is, large-scale falsification was carried out.

Naturally, the lists of “identified” Katyn victims, which the Polish side and the Russian Memorial society are trying to operate on, are counterfeit. Therefore, it is not surprising that neither Poland nor Memorial are interested in the message about 9, an unknown Polish burial site, found outside the memorial complex in the Katyn Forest. It could not be the work of the Chekists, because it is literally 50 meters from the place where the NKVD rest home stood in 1940.

About this burial 12 April 2000 g. And. about. Russian President Vladimir Putin in a telephone conversation informed the then Polish President Alexander Kwasniewski. Mrs. Yolanta Kwasniewska, the wife of the President of Poland, who arrived at Katyn the next day, laid flowers on this grave ... According to preliminary estimates, the total number of corpses in the grave ranges from three hundred to one thousand.

However, during the 15 years, the Polish authorities did not attempt to clarify the situation with the “Polish grave No. XXUMX” in the Goat Mountains. Memorial has a similar position. What is the matter?

Apparently, according to the Nazi-Polish version, all Polish officers from the Kozel camp, who were shot at Katyn, have already been found, identified and buried on the territory of the Polish memorial. Among them, there is no place for the “new” Katyn victims. The emergence of hundreds of "new" Polish corpses "bring down" the above version.

Dubious Katyn Kremlin documents

Well, what about the most important argument of the "memorials" and Polish so-called historians - the "closed package No. 1" with the Katyn documents allegedly found in 1992 in the former archive of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU? Among these documents was a note from USSR People’s Commissar for Internal Affairs Lavrenti Beria to Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) Joseph Stalin No.794 / B dated March 9 1940 with a proposal to shoot Polish citizens 25.700, as well as a note from the Chairman of the USSR KGB A. Shelepin to the First Secretary CPSU N. Khrushchev that the NKVD officers in 1940, had shot 21.857 Polish citizens.

However, despite these extremely serious documents, the 62 paragraph of the Memorandum from 19.03.2010 is noted in paragraph. "During the investigation, it was impossible ... to obtain information regarding the implementation of the decision to shoot specific individuals, since all the records were destroyed and it was impossible to restore them."

The foregoing suggests that Russian military prosecutors and experts questioned the credibility of the entire set of Katyn documents from the “closed package No. 1” from the archives of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee, to which proponents of the Nazi-Polish version of the Katyn crime so fond. And it is not by chance

In March 2009, the E.Lokokov forensic laboratory established that the first three pages of a note by People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR Lavrenti Beri to Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) Joseph Stalin No.794 / B dated March "1940" with a proposal to execute 25.700 Polish citizens were typed on one typewriter, and the last fourth page was on another.

Moreover, it was found that the font of the fourth page is found on the pages of a number of genuine NKVD letters 1939-40, and the font of the first three pages is not found in any of the genuine NKVD letters of that period identified so far.
This is obvious evidence of the falsification of the first three pages of Beria’s note.

I will add that the circumstances of the actual discovery of the “closed package No. XXUMX” with the Katyn documents also allow us to assume about the possible falsification of the Katyn documents. The myth that a certain commission accidentally discovered 1 in September in the archives of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, dispelled the lawyer and State Duma deputy Andrei Makarov.

Speaking at 15 in October 2009 at the round table “Falsifying history and historical myths as an instrument of modern politics,” he said that President Boris Yeltsin handed him and S. Shahrai “private package No. 1” from his personal safe. The authenticity of this version is confirmed by the fact that it was A. Makarov, together with S. Shahrai 14 of October 1992, who submitted the Katyn documents from the “closed package No. 1” to the Constitutional Court of the Russian Federation.

This version was confirmed in May of 2010. Then the applicant, known to the deputy for the Soviet period, appeared to State Duma deputy Viktor Ilyukhin. He said that at the beginning of 90-s he was attracted to work in a group of high-ranking specialists in the falsification of archival documents relating to important events of the Soviet period, including the Katyn case. This group worked in the structure of the security service of the Russian President B. Yeltsin.

To confirm his words, the applicant handed V. Ilyukhin a set of official pre-war forms, a lot of facsimiles, seals and stamps of the Soviet period, as well as drafts of the falsified pages of the already mentioned Beria note No. XXUMX / B.

Initially, according to these drafts, it was proposed to impute the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) to decide not to shoot 25.700 Polish citizens (14.700 in the camps + 11.000 in prisons), but 46.700 (24.700 in the camps + 22.000 in prisons). But, apparently, the head of the falsifiers brigade, realizing the absurdity of such a figure, decided to reduce it and made handwritten corrections to the digital part of the first version of falsification.

Unfortunately, the untimely death of V. Ilyukhin did not allow us to fully investigate this scandalous situation.

Katyn in Strasbourg

In 2012 and 2013 The Nazi-Polish version of the Katyn case received strong support in the form of Resolutions of the Fifth Section of the ECHR from 16.04.2012 and the Grand Chamber of the ECHR from 21.10.2013 in the case of Janowiec and Others v. Russia (Katyn case).

The ECHR ruling from 16.04.2012 deserves special attention. In it, the European Court, in violation of its jurisdiction (the ECtHR should only consider procedural violations of the provisions of the Convention on Human Rights regarding the applicants, but not identify the perpetrators of the crime), ignored the Russian legal version of the Katyn events set forth in the Memorandums The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation and the responsibility for the death of Polish citizens 21.857 laid on the Stalinist leadership of the USSR.

The key here is the 136 item. It categorically states: “The court notes that the applicants' relatives who were captured after the Soviet Red Army occupied Polish territory and who were kept in Soviet camps were shot by order of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU in April and May 1940.

The lists of prisoners to be shot were drawn up on the basis of the “shipment lists” of the NKVD, which mentioned, in particular, the names of the applicants' relatives ... In the absence of any other, even indirect, evidence that they could somehow avoid of the execution, it should be presumed that they died during the mass execution in 1940. ”

An analysis of the Resolution from 16.04.2012 showed that the ECHR took an extremely politicized position in the consideration of the case “Yanovovets and Others v. Russia”, and in the Resolution itself made so many inaccuracies and obvious errors that it casts doubt on its validity.

The situation was aggravated by the fact that the Grand Chamber of the ECHR after a year and a half by the Resolution of 21.10.2013 left the main provisions of the Resolution of the Fifth Section, however, excluding the assertion that the Nuremberg Tribunal 1946 allegedly rejected the Soviet Nazi accusation of the Katyn crime.

In the case of “Janovets and Others v. Russia”, the ECHR did not explicitly place on Russia formal legal responsibility for the Katyn massacre. After all, if we proceed from a false and unjustified decision of the ECtHR on the responsibility of the USSR for Katyn, then it is clear that in legal terms the Russian Federation, as the successor and law follower of the USSR, is the heir of legal responsibility for the Katyn crime.

All subsequent claims of the Polish side on the Katyn crime will be addressed to the Russian Federation. It should not be forgotten that the case that was considered by the ECHR was called “Janowitz and Others v. Russia”.

Strasbourg amateurs or russophobes

The content of the already mentioned ECHR Ordinance from 16.04.2012, as the main modern court decision in the Katyn case, deserves a special conversation. Much can be said about formal inaccuracies in this document. I will note only some of them.

The Resolution distorts the names of most of the positions of Soviet leaders and the names of political and executive bodies of the USSR. This testifies either to the amateurism of the experts of the Secretariat of the ECHR, or to their overt anti-Sovietism, multiplied by Russophobia.
For example, in paragraph 140 of the NKVD is called the "secret police of the Soviet Union." There is clearly a desire of the ECHR to identify the NKVD and the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei - the secret state police). Paragraph 157 of the Resolution gives a derogatory assessment of the Soviet era as “the time of lies and the distortion of historical facts”.

Clause 18 states that “... in September 1943 of the year, the NKVD created a special commission chaired by Burdenko ...”. This is a primitive lie.

The documents show that the Burdenko Commission was created by a decision of the State Extraordinary Commission to establish and investigate the atrocities of the German fascist invaders and their associates 12 in January 1944. The initiative to create the Burdenko Commission came not from the NKVD of the USSR, but from the Office of Agitation and Propaganda of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B) .

Goebbels Reanimators

It should be noted that in the ECHR Ordinance of 16.04.2012 there are fundamental errors that allow to rehabilitate the Nazi version of the Katyn crime, the ancestor of which was the well-known Nazi falsifier J. Goebbels.

Thus, in paragraph 17 of the Resolution, it is erroneously stated that in the Katyn forest "an international commission consisting of twelve forensic experts and their assistants ... conducted exhumation work from April to June of 1943."

It is reliably established that the experts of the international commission arrived in Katyn on April 28 1943 and on April 30 departed for Berlin. During the day, they were able to examine only 9 corpses specially prepared for them.

Exhumation work in the Katyn forest from April to June 1943 was carried out not by members of the International Medical Commission, but by German experts headed by Professor G. Butz and representatives of the Technical Committee of the PAC under the guidance of doctor M. Vodzinsky.

Point 57 of its ECHR Resolution actually rehabilitated the results of the German-Polish exhumation of 1943, noting that “it is generally known that as a result of exhumation in 1943, the remains of 4.243 people were identified, of which 2.730 was identified”, although in the final version German data compiled 4.143 detected and 2.815 identified corpses. But experts of the Secretariat of the ECHR do not care about the accuracy of the figures, when the task is to deal with Russia.

The above indicates that the political component in the work of the ECHR more and more prevails every year. Especially if the controversial cases concern Russia, which so far insufficiently takes into account this aspect of the behavior of the ECHR.
And it should, because the decisions of the ECHR contribute to the formation of the negative image of Russia in the world.
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  1. aleks_29296
    aleks_29296 4 October 2015 00: 55
    Recently registered on the site of petitions, there is a collection of signatures for the abolition of false confession of guilt by Russia in the Katyn execution. It seems like the necessary amount was scored, I am waiting for the result. In general, how many Russian people died during all this time during the same old Europe, nevermind, no one notices, or does not want to remember, but the whole fucking gayrope remembers the gunshot by someone who was not shot.
    1. Darwin
      Darwin 4 October 2015 01: 04
      You need to start by canceling the Solzhenitsyn school curriculum
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 4 October 2015 11: 35
        Not only him.
        For example "The history of one city":
        Everyone crossed themselves, a general militia was announced against Dunki the Fat Man.
        Is this a hint of Minin and Pozharsky? One of the hardest pages in the history of the country is exhibited as a freak show.
        Or "After the Ball".
        Somehow I argued on the terrible "Nikolai-Palkin" that it was curious that the opponent did not find any intelligible evidence of his unthinkable cruelty - yes, physical punishment was practiced, but within the limits of the necessary. But as the first argument, he immediately named this story.
        1. dmb
          dmb 4 October 2015 18: 18
          Of course, of course: "only those sciences spread the light, which contribute to the fulfillment of commanding orders." And this is not the clearest example of which artiodactyls will be born under the moon.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 5 October 2015 19: 22
            In the dwelling gloomy shadows
            They appeared before the judges
            At the same hour: Robber
            (He smashed along the big roads,
            And finally got into the loop);
            Another was the glory-covered Writer:
            He delicately poured poison in his creations.
            Instilled unbelief, rooted debauchery,
            Was like a siren, sweet-eyed
            And, like the Siren, it was dangerous.
            In hell, the ritual of judicial speed;
            No delays worthless:
            The sentence was made in a minute.
            On the scary two chains of iron
            Two large cast-iron boilers are hung:
            The guilty were seated in them,
            Firewood under the Rogue was piled up;
            Megera herself lit them
            And made such a terrible flame
            What began to crack in the arches of hellish stone.
            The court to the Writer did not seem to be strict;
            Under it, at first, a little glowed;
            But there, the further, the more flared up.
            That eyelids leaked, the fire did not stop.
            Already under the Robber, the fire has long gone out:
            Under the Writer, he is angry from hour to hour.
            Seeing no relief
            The writer finally screams in the midst of torment,
            That there is no justice in the gods;
            What glory he filled the light
            And if he wrote a little freely,
            That too painfully punished;
            That he did not think to be a robber sinner.
            Here in front of him, in all its glory,
            With snakes sizzling between the hairs
            With bloody scourges in their hands
            Of the hellish three sisters, one appeared.
            "Unhappy! - she says, -
            Are you blaming Providence?
            And do you equal yourself with a Robber?
            Before your nothing is his fault.
            By his fury and anger,
            He was harmful
            So far he has only lived;
            And you ... already your bones have long decayed,
            And the sun will never rise
            So that new ones from you will not light up troubles.
            Your creature’s poison not only doesn’t fade,
            But, spilling, ages lurking.
            Look (here she saw the light for him)
            Look at all the evil things
            And the misfortunes you blame!
            There are children, the shame of their families -
            Despair of fathers and mothers:
            By whom is the mind and heart poisoned in them? - by you.
            Who, ridiculing like childhood dreams,
            Matrimony, authorities, authorities,
            They were blamed for all human misfortunes
            And the connection of society was eager to dissolve? - you.
            Weren't you imagining unbelief as enlightenment?
            Are you not in a tempting, attractive sight
            And passion and vice?
            And overwhelmed by your teachings,
            There is a whole country
            Is full
            Murders and robberies
            Strife and rebellion
            And brought to perdition by you!
            In it, every drop of tears and blood - you are to blame.
            And you dare to arm yourself with the blasphemy against the gods?
            And how much will continue to be born
            From your books in the world is evil!
            Be patient; here for you deeds and punishment measure! ” -
            Angry meger said
            And the boiler slammed the lid.
            (Ivan Andreevich Krylov "The Writer and the Robber")
            Unfortunately, this is not taught in schools.
        2. veteran66
          veteran66 4 October 2015 20: 52
          All the literature of pre-revolutionary time studied at school is presented exclusively by dissidents to the then regime. Hence, all Russophobia comes.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 5 October 2015 19: 17
            Quote: veteran66
            studied at school, represented exclusively by dissidents to the then regime

            I’m talking about this. First, for years children have been talking about the hopeless centuries-old wildness and backwardness of Russia, and then we are surprised at how many liberals (enemies of the people) are coming from.
      2. Saburov
        Saburov 4 October 2015 20: 52
        Quite right, since SALZHENITSyn with his Gulag is nothing more than a set of camp tales, without any arguments or artistic value.
        1. Vlaleks48
          Vlaleks48 4 October 2015 21: 51
          This dreamer, when asked where the victims' numbers came from, answered: the work is purely artistic and does not encroach on historical accuracy!
          These fantasy weapons are in the dirty hands of various liberals such as pig farmers, cured and other brewers!
        2. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 4 October 2015 22: 22
          Quote: Saburov
          That's right, since SALZHENITSyn with his Gulag is nothing more than a set of camp tales
          12 2007 June

          Putin told what he was talking with Solzhenitsyn -

          "We talked about the current situation, about the future of the country. For my part, I drew the attention of the writer to the fact that some of the steps that we are taking today are largely in tune with what Solzhenitsyn wrote."

          "But I especially want to thank you for your work for the good of Russia. You continue your activities today, you never waver in your views, but stick to them in your life."

          "I said that 70% of my time I devote to domestic policy and only 30% to foreign policy, and the issues that are resolved in foreign policy are directly related to the interests of the country."
        3. allian
          allian 4 October 2015 23: 25
          Quote: Saburov
          since SALZHENITSyn with his Gulag is nothing more than a set of camp tales, without any arguments or artistic value

          Still, it's time. It is time to introduce the most severe criminal liability for attempts to rehabilitate the communist regime. And the denial of his crimes. To do this, you need a court. Like the Nuremberg Tribunal. Sorry, the defendants have already died. Annoyingly.
          Samburov, in only 2 years, from 1937 to 1938, the Bolsheviks imprisoned 3341989 people in the Gulag for "counter-revolutionary crimes". And during the same period 745220 people were shot. This is the official data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs.
          For you, an apparently uneducated person, I would like to inform you that about 649000 civilians died in Leningrad during the blockade. In 872 days. This is over 2 years old. So, the Bolsheviks in this regard were "more effective" than the Nazis.
          What will you call it? Whose tales? Moreover, all the numbers are confirmed documentally.
          1. Saburov
            Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 51
            Quote: allian
            What will you call it? Whose tales? Moreover, all the numbers are confirmed documentally.

            You don’t bring nonsense, do you get paid for lying? Go to the state archive, what documents? Imagine please?
            Here are the official numbers, let's start in order.
            Unknowing people constantly operate on such a thing as the Gulag. Like, in the concentration camps sat 20,30,40 or 60 000 000 people. Already, the dumbfather takes after these numbers. But after the first shock, sobriety comes. One immediately wonders: “How could the state provide so many prisoners?”, “Who worked in the USSR?” And “Where did the budget money go?”
            So let's start in order. According to the most conservative estimates, 40 000 000 people sat in the Gulag, and according to immodest 60 - 110 000 000. So not a modest “citizen” was Solzhenitsyn. For those who do not know this third-rate scribbler, a dissident cosmopolitan and an ardent anti-Soviet. The author of the pseudo-documentary book “The Gulag Archipelago”, half written off from the Goebel’s campaign, half invented, in short, something from the genre of non-fiction. Suitable only to support the leg of a broken sofa. Russophobia brought him to such an idea that he suggested that the Americans almost openly fight with us, and at one of the press conferences the pseudo patriot openly supported the fascists Franco. But back to our topic.
            Let's temporarily agree with the liberals and imagine that in the USSR there really were 40 000 000 people. If you take from the 1922 year, then Stalin led the 31 year. It turns out that every year people were arrested and sent to the 1 290 322 camp, daily 3 535 people were sent to the camps. The numbers and, however, are discouraging, but this is bad luck. The state would have to face such problems as:
            1) Transportation
            2) Security
            3) Supply
            4) Provision of barracks
            5) Secrecy
            1. Saburov
              Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 52
              And most importantly, the goal. Why put so many people in camps? I do not understand.
              Let's start in order.
              Transportation. Here, for example, several thousand people were arrested. We cannot send them to the camp immediately. It is necessary to accumulate convicts for a longer time, because if we send small groups of people every day, we will disperse the security forces, and prisoners can scatter. Next, how to transport? By plane? By car? No, on foot or by train. Now think what it will cause. That's right - huge human columns marching along the roads. Of course, these masses of people would make a huge imprint in the memory of a simple layman. But people do not remember columns of convicts leaving the horizon. They remember German prisoners of war, but there are no prisoners. It turns out that either the NKVD put on invisible caps on the convicts, or the scale of the repressions was really insignificant.
              Buildings and supplies. Well, we arrived at our destination, what next? Buildings needed. Not just barracks, but in addition to them: a dining room, a medical unit, a warehouse, a bathhouse, a post office or telegraph office, a guardhouse or a mini barracks for security, a club and a library. In general, a lot of buildings. Then each convict needs to be given what, not what kind of linen, uniform, blanket, winter set of clothes, shoes. It needs to be fed, washed once a week, the first-aid kit in the medical unit should be equipped with at least bandages and iodine, as well as put together stools, put tables, plates, dishes to buy. In addition to the convicts, guards sit on your neck. They also need to give rations, sew a uniform, wash, heat, put them to bed, and even put a rifle or machine gun in their hands and tie a shepherd on a leash. That's how many hangers-on you have. And who will give money to them? You are a respected taxpayer. Where does the money come from? From the budget. Let us see and compare the expenses of the USSR budget for the Gulag.
              The memorandum of the people's commissariats of justice, internal affairs and the OGPU in the SNK of the RSFSR on the need to create a concentration camp system from 13 on April 1929 says that the content of a prisoner is reduced from 250rub a year to 100rub. And now it’s the turn to carefully calculate the money. Take the state budgets of 1935-37.
              1935g Revenues were 67 428 098 088rub, and expenses 66 391 102 047
              Of these, 1 707 419 378rub was spent for the needs of the NKVD, this amount includes not only the content of the GULAG, but also the salary of all NKVD employees, as well as their contents.
              1. Saburov
                Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 52
                Now let's do a simple multiplication action. We said that there were 40 000 000 people in the GULAG, we derive the average number of approximately 20 000 000 people. Now we multiply these people by 100rub, budget revenues, we get 2 000 000 000rub, only by the content of prisoners. This has already exceeded budget injections on 292 580 622rub. It turns out that our guards went around bloated, undressed, and the prisoners fattened? Not? This means that liberal figures are overstated.
                In addition, so that the reader does not accuse me of forgery, I give the figure of the NKVD officers.
                Border troops of the NKVD 167 600 troops
                The internal troops of the NKVD - 173 900 troops, including:
                operational troops (excluding military schools) - 27,3 thousand people;
                railroad protection troops - 63,7 thousand people;
                troops for the protection of critical industrial facilities - 29,3 thousand people.
                The number of escort troops was 38,3 thousand people.
                It turns out that the total number of employees ranged from 300 to 500 thousand people. This is another question about the police state. In the United States, according to the most conservative estimates, there are about 2-3 million people in the power structures.
                Now it remains to find out how much the NKVD officers received. I could not find the exact data regarding the salaries of the security forces. Therefore, you have to consider, based on the average annual salary in the USSR. We continue with the 1935 year. The average annual wage was 136 rubles. We multiply the average number of employees by salary: 400 000 by 136 we get 54 400 000 only by salary. But you still need to sew a uniform, arm and feed the guards. We continue our research.
                1. Saburov
                  Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 53
                  So we sorted out the security, there were prisoners. The usual diet of the prisoner was (per 1 person per day in grams):
                  1200 rye bread
                  Wheat flour 60
                  Different groats 130
                  Potato and vegetables 600
                  Meat 30
                  158 fish
                  Vegetable Oil 12
                  10 pasta
                  Sugar 13
                  Surrogate Tea 2
                  10 Tomato Puree
                  Capsicum 0,13
                  Bay leaf 0,2
                  Salt 20
                  Not bad! Is not it?
                  Oh, I almost forgot. In addition to everything else, the poor victims of “repression” were allowed to transfer money to relatives! I hope that after these lines you did not fall off the chair, in surprise. The Gulag was translated into self-sufficiency, that is, it became an enterprise. In the USSR, slavery and exploitation were prohibited, so workers were provided with wages. Roughly 100-200rub until 1941 year. As for the work, the working day was ten hours. However, they did not work every day; there were also weekends 5-8 per month.
                  And now we continue to consider the budget.
                  Revenue: 83 760 252 898
                  Consumption: 83 760 252 898
                  Of these, for the needs of the NKVD: 2 193 059 995
                  Average salary in the NKVD: 82 800 000
                  For the content of "20 000 000" people of the GULAG: 2 000 000 000.
                  1. Saburov
                    Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 53
                    Revenue: 362,1 billion rubles
                    Expense: 348,8 billion rubles
                    At the NKVD: 2 052 673 600
                    Of which: 8 billion for weapons
                    82 800 000 for salary
                    2 000 000 000 to the Gulag.
                    As you can see, liberal figures are blatantly lying. The USSR could not have overpowered 20 000 000 prisoners. Now it remains to crush the last liberal argument. When you ask them: “Why was the Gulag needed?” The answer flies from them: “Slave labor is the most profitable, and in general we are all slaves, slaves, slaves ...”. Bullshit! I explain why.
                    First, you need to decide where it is really necessary, slave labor. Well, first of all, on plantations in the tropical, equatorial belt. Sugar, coffee, cotton are very fastidious crops that need constant monitoring. It is necessary to weed weeds, water the plantings, collect everything by hand. Moreover, the demand for plantation products was high. However, slavery did not spread beyond the plantation economy. It was simply unprofitable. A skilled worker was many times better than an illiterate slave. The key factor was production costs. You need to feed the slave, give some rags, put the overseer, and he also needs supplies. Vicious circle! Workers are economically viable labor resources. I thrust 25 rubles to him and walk Petya wherever you want, only to come to work tomorrow.
                    1. Saburov
                      Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 54
                      Secondly, the USSR, like the Russian Federation, was mostly located in the northern part of the planet. Therefore, plantation production occupied a small strip or it did not exist at all. The bulk of agriculture was occupied by grain, which also did not tolerate slavery. For those who did not guess, I explain. Unlike cotton, grain is a very unpretentious product. You can trample it underfoot, carry it on the ground, thresh it, even bathe it in the mud (but it’s better not to do it) it won’t do anything, but try to do this with cotton or sugar. You will lose the whole crop. Then, the agricultural work in the USSR was mainly carried out once a year, and all the rest of the time the peasants could put it this way “rested, prepared for the next sowing season”. In this case, why do we need to keep a slave, if he works for six months, and the rest of the time sits on his neck? It is more cost-effective to take a wage worker or create collective farms working on a factory basis. The peasant became, as it were, a land proletarian, there is no personal land, but there is a salary.
                      I hope that along the way I managed to dispel the myth of the "profitability" of slavery.
                      Now, having prepared you, dear reader, I am ready to give the real numbers of the Gulag prisoners. Based on Soviet statistics (V.N. Zemskov “GULAG (historical and sociological research)” case study 1991g, History in documents. Russia 20 century. Archive of Alexander N. Yakovlev, with reference to the GARF.), I can say that the number of sitters permanently in places of deprivation of liberty did not exceed 3 million people.
                      Statistics of the number of prisoners of the Gulag (on 1 of January of each year).
                      Year In Forced Labor Camps (ITL) Of these, convicted of counter-revolution The same in% In forced labor colonies (ITK)
                      1. Saburov
                        Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 55
                        1934 510307 135190 26,5 510307
                        1935 725483 118256 16,3 240259 965742
                        1936 839406 105849 12,6 457088 1296494
                        1937 820881 104826 12,8 375488 1196369
                        1938 996367 185324 18,6 885203 1881570
                        1939 1317195 454432 34,5 355243 1672438
                        1940 1344408 444999 33,1 315584 1659992
                        1941 1500524 420293 28,7 429205 1929729
                        1942 1415596 407988 29,6 361447 1777043
                        1943 983974 345397 35,6 500208 1484182
                        1944 663594 268861 40,7 516225 1179819
                        1945 715505 289351 41,2 745171 1460677
                        1946 746871 333883 59,2 956224 1703095
                        1947 808839 427653 54,3 912704 1721543
                        1948 1108057 416156 38,0 1091478 2199535
                        1949 1216361 420696 34,9 1140324 2356685
                        1950 1416300 578912 22,7 1145051 2561351
                        1951 1533767 475976 31,0 994379 2528146
                        1952 1711202 480766 28,1 793312 2504514
                        1953 1727970 465256 26,9 740554 2468524
                        Finally, in order to completely disarm the liberals, I would like to trace the demographic situation in the country.
                        The population of the USSR during the reign of Stalin increased sharply.
                        1926 (January) 148 656 000
                        1927 —-----— 147 028 000
                        1937 (January) 162 500 000
                        1939 (January) 168 524 000
                        1941 (June) 196 716 000
                        1946 (January) 170 548 000
                        1951 (January) 182 321 000
                        1959 (January) 208,800 000
                      2. Saburov
                        Saburov 5 October 2015 01: 55
                        As you can see, before the war there was a rabid population growth. In the postwar years, the Union was able to make up for its losses in a very short period of time. However, if we follow the liberals' lead and believe in 20 000 000 convicts, the demographic situation will change dramatically. These prisoners will simply fly out of the population, while losing their reproductive function. Indeed, the main prisoners were men. Now imagine: 20 000 000 men were put in prison. Naturally, they will not be able to start a family and have children. This is already minus 20 - 60 000 000 people, unborn children. Also add losses in wars total minus 60-80 000 000 people. As a result, the population of the USSR would not be 208 800 000, but 108 - 158 000 000.
                        You say nonsense, but there are people who believe in the propaganda of Svanidze ... PS A person does not believe in anything so holy, of which he knows the least!
                      3. Saburov
                        Saburov 5 October 2015 02: 12
                        And in general for the future, according to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs (a memo to Khrushchev from the Ministry of Internal Affairs), from 1921 to 1953, 642 980 people were shot for counter-revolutionary crimes, and 2 369 220 people were sent to prison. Here's a copy of the original, where your documents, I never saw ... but in fact, in the entire history of the propaganda of repressions, no one has ever submitted any documents proving the bloody regime of Stalin ... the answer is simple, because there are none due to the lack of corpus delicti and fictitious figures.
      3. allian
        allian 5 October 2015 08: 19
        Quote: Saburov
        And in general for the future, according to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs

        Here are the archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs. Study. This applies to everyone.
        1. Saburov
          Saburov 5 October 2015 14: 43
          I’ll tell you one clever thing, but don’t be offended ... you are either id ... from or a conscious provocateur. Firstly, you did not answer the paradoxes of figures that I laid out above and did not provide a single document, your Yakovlev, whom you took as a true historian, has long been known as one of the main ideologists of perestroika, who said it was time to end the Soviet system, from his words ... The Soviet totalitarian regime could be destroyed only through the glasnost and totalitarian discipline of the party, under the cover of the interests of improving socialism. Looking back, I can proudly say that it’s cunning, but very simple tactics - the mechanisms of totalitarianism against the system of totalitarianism - worked ... For the good of the case, I had to retreat and dissemble. I myself am sinful - I have been cunning more than once. He spoke about the “renewal of socialism”, but he himself knew what was going on ... And on the site that you advised there is NOT A SINGLE DOCUMENT WITH SIGNATURE, PRINTING AND AN ARCHIVE REGISTER ... everything is printed by hand and issued as the original (paper then it it will endure) ... an archive document is the one that I presented to you, and not the left table on the site of the old deceased senile anti-adviser. And in the future, if you argue with strangers about something, have at least a little bit of fundamental knowledge, in this case with the State Archive.
        2. Saburov
          Saburov 5 October 2015 16: 35
          Quote: allian
          Here are the archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs. Study. This applies to everyone.

          And the most interesting thing is that you didn’t show the archival data of the USSR-Russia Ministry of Internal Affairs (those that are not under the stamp) stored in the Central Asian explosives or stored in the Russian State Archives of Archives, so you burnt Mr. Troll ... the most interesting thing is that all anti-Soviet and liberal leaders always scorch on the details and nuances ... such as Beria and 37 year ... And for the future, if you're interested, make a request at or here http: / /
  2. LeonidL
    LeonidL 6 July 2017 04: 45
    Absolutely correct!
  • CALL.
    CALL. 4 October 2015 05: 12
    Quote: aleks_29296
    Recently registered on the site of petitions, there is a collection of signatures for the abolition of false confession of guilt by Russia in the Katyn execution. It seems like the necessary amount was scored, I am waiting for the result. In general, how many Russian people died during all this time during the same old Europe, nevermind, no one notices, or does not want to remember, but the whole fucking gayrope remembers the gunshot by someone who was not shot.

    Close the fake Polish memorials in Mednoye (Tver region) and Katyn (Smolensk region) # FakeKatyn % 83% D0% BC% D0% B5-% D1% 80% D1% 84
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 4 October 2015 11: 19
      Quote: Z.O.V.
      Close the fake Polish memorials in Mednoye (Tver region) and Katyn (Smolensk region)

      tear to hell, but what remains will be sent to Poland.
  • Kos_kalinki9
    Kos_kalinki9 4 October 2015 08: 57
    Discard the site link, if not difficult.
  • Raider
    Raider 4 October 2015 01: 45
    Why are our liberals the most liberal in the world ?? Poles do not write about our tortured Red Army soldiers. And our pants on the go take off. I support Alex and Darwin. Our liberals and pants with the width of their back are probably probably more comfortable for Western friends. Maybe we give too much freedom and democracy?
    1. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 4 October 2015 03: 26
      Quote: Raider
      Why are our liberals the most liberal in the world ?? Poles do not write about our tortured Red Army soldiers. And our on the go take off your pants
      Speech by Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on April 7, 2010 at the Katyn memorial complex for victims of political repression:

      "... In this land lie Soviet citizens who were burnt in the fire of Stalin's repressions of the thirties; Polish officers who were shot by secret orders; soldiers of the Red Army who were executed by the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War.
      Katyn inextricably linked their fate. Here, next to each other, as in a mass grave, they found eternal peace. They found peace, but not oblivion, because the martyrdom of innocent victims could not be erased from memory, the truth about crimes could not be hidden.
      Russia and Poland, like no other countries, Russians and Poles, like no other peoples of Europe, had to survive almost all the tragedies of the twentieth century, pay an exorbitant price for two world wars, fratricidal armed conflicts, cruelty and inhumanity of totalitarianism.
      Our people, who went through the horrors of the civil war, forced collectivization, through the mass repressions of the 1930s, are very well aware, perhaps better than anyone, which Katyn, Mednoye, Pyatikhatka mean for many Polish families.
      Because in this mournful row there are places of mass executions of Soviet citizens. This Butovo range near Moscow, Sekirnaya Gora on Solovki, the shooting ditches of Magadan and Vorkuta, the nameless graves of Norilsk and Belomorkanal.
      Repressions destroyed people, not analyzing nationalities, beliefs, religions. Entire classes in our country became their victims: Cossacks and priests, simple peasants, professors and officers — officers, including the tsarist army, who had come to the service of the Soviet government at the time and were not spared them — teachers and workers.
      There was only one logic - to spread fear, to arouse the most base instincts in a person, to direct people towards each other, to make blindly and thoughtlessly obey.
      There can be no justification for these crimes. In our country, a clear political, legal and moral assessment of the atrocities of the totalitarian regime has been given. And such an assessment is not subject to any revisions. ... "

      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 4 October 2015 11: 00
        Quote: Uncle Joe
        Polish officers executed by secret order;

        Let the Poles first publish the minutes of the interrogations of these Poles, which were handed over to Humpback and Yeltsin from the KGB archives, and then they appear ...
        To be honest, it makes no difference to me who shot them, the main thing is what’s the matter.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 4 October 2015 11: 16
          add more ...
          Let's get back to Katyn. The major of the Austro-Hungarian army Jozef Pilsudski decided to revive the great Poland from the Baltic to the Black Sea. The dictator agreed with a fugitive seminarian Semyon Petlyura, Poland took the land to the Dnieper with Kiev, the Central Council of the east coast to the Caucasus and the Caspian. Having received weapons from the Entente, the aggressors attacked Soviet Russia and captured Kiev on May 6, 1920. However, dreams crashed, failed to wash their boots in the Black Sea, in late July, the Red Army was in the suburbs of Warsaw. Dzerzhinsky, Dubrovinsky, Belostotsky and other Leninist guards insisted on an immediate assault on the city, guaranteeing the support of the Polish proletariat. Alas, the illusions turned out to be impossible; the army was surrounded and defeated. The lucky ones managed to escape to Germany, and fifty thousand prisoners disappeared without a trace. More or less reliable information has been preserved only about twenty-five thousand who were brutally tortured or executed. Having occupied Poland, the Germans handed over to the Soviet Union all the Polish officers who were awarded the order for the defeat of the Red Army near Warsaw. After the completion of the investigative actions, four thousand of them were shot.
          Speaking at the monument, A. Duda returned to the topic of genocide. The new Polish president said that the Katyn crime, the purpose of which was the destruction of the Polish people, should be called genocide.

          For 1940, this is retribution; today it is the killing of innocents. In any case, having received documents from Katyn from Gorbachev, the Poles still have not published the minutes of interrogations of their officers.
        2. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 4 October 2015 17: 33
          Quote: PSih2097
          let the poles
          The point is not in the Poles, but in the deliberately conducted de-Sovietization by the Russian leadership.

          By the way: yesterday on the site there was another little letter about a guardian for the good of the Fatherland - a promoted edros Fedorov and his failed bill (absolutely populist, as a result of which is legally illiterate and obviously impassable)

          So this guardian of Katyn voted for - like 99.4% of the EP

          But people hawala.
      2. Kilo-11
        Kilo-11 4 October 2015 13: 51
        Plus for the poster.
    2. APASUS
      APASUS 4 October 2015 18: 16
      Quote: Raider
      Why are our liberals the most liberal in the world ?? Poles do not write about our tortured Red Army soldiers. And our pants on the go take off.

      Yes, because they get money from their activities, and who pays ............. for tortured and killed Russians in Chechnya under Duduev or for the children of Donbass you won’t earn money, but on the charges of communism .... ...........
    3. LeonidL
      LeonidL 6 July 2017 04: 46
      This is a disease among Westerners liberals such ... like a hut, everything back and forth.
  • silver169
    silver169 4 October 2015 02: 25
    And where is the book of memory of more than 100 thousand killed and tortured Soviet soldiers captured by the Poles during the Soviet-Polish war of 1920? The Poles do not even want to admit this terrible crime so far. Amazing duplicity and hypocrisy.
  • 34 region
    34 region 4 October 2015 02: 40
    Why would the Nazis dig graves (or graves, I don’t know how to)? The outcome of the war was already clear. And so, unobtrusively, they prepared their escape routes. Are we criminals? But the USSR also killed! This is about that time. And about the present? The connection is direct. This ugly Stalinist regime! That's just that regime raised the country after two wars. And he didn’t beg: We need foreign investment and help! Then they understood: NOBODY EXCEPT US. Today they do not put for large embezzlement, do not exile, do not deprive of citizenship, there is no death penalty. But! The West considers us a totalitarian regime. Moral: Do not bow and grovel. Recognizing our past as ugly, we ourselves put a noose around our neck. We will never be good, this is the law of capitalism. The best and most honest one is I. Today, the State Media Agency (if they still exist) does not in any way repel the assaults on our past. The President also disavows our glorious past. That's when the parades will be taken standing at the mausoleum, when portraits of Lenin and Stalin will appear, then our neighbors will sing differently. Today? Well, do not resent the demolitions of Soviet monuments! After all, we ourselves are doing the same. Drapery of the mausoleum is not a demolition? Wailing of that time is not demolition? Not recognition of that time is not criminal? The article is definitely PLUS! The right thing is done by Vladislav Shved, educating us about the past! More such disclosures need to be written. There is an information war. And Comrade Swede struck back!
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 4 October 2015 11: 22
      Quote: Region 34
      Why would the Nazis dig graves (or graves, I don’t know how to)?

      so that the Poles could motivate the resistance of the Soviet army during the liberation of Poland from the Germans.
  • 34 region
    34 region 4 October 2015 02: 58
    And Russia could publish a series of ZhZL (the life of wonderful people) to educate the Polish Schetyna. For starters, for example, about Wojciech Jaruzelski. What is not a hero?
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 4 October 2015 03: 44
    I didn’t want to read this article, I somehow worried very much. I’m afraid I can write evil to indecency. Then I read it. I once read that the Poles have a hatred of Russians at the genetic level. It was a while ago, trying to remember where.
    I didn’t learn anything new about the Polish meanness, but a lot of amazing vile things about my compatriots. It turns out that under the Soviet regime pages of our history were torn out, continuity did not become. Now other pages are torn out. What remains? Youth, children?
    In "Velikoross" I read about the vile fuss in Yeltsin - the fund. They want E.B.NIK. went down in history as a great man. We (our family) never voted for him, and our acquaintances condemned us. And now if someone starts any complaints, I remember that.
    +++++ Thanks for the article. True, as it is.
  • Russian Uzbek
    Russian Uzbek 4 October 2015 06: 28
    "" "If someone is mentioned in the list to be sent from the Kozelsk NKVD camp to the disposal of the Smolensk NKVD, then, in the opinion of the Polish" identifiers ", he was certainly shot in the Katyn forest" ""
    common practice of forgers! we also have a "monument to the victims" in Orenburg, and there are also about 15000 names, however, upon closer examination of the issue, it turns out that MORE THAN HALF of "political" ones were convicted of CRIMINAL crimes, embezzlement, embezzlement and even banditry!;)
    those. those who were sentenced to more than 10 years or sentenced to death (it was a harsh time, however) were automatically recorded as "victims of political repression"!
    hence the "billions of repressed"
    and the shameful monument still stands although the whole city knows the truth ...
    1. avt
      avt 4 October 2015 08: 43
      Quote: Russian Uzbek
      common practice of forgers! we also have a "monument to the victims" in Orenburg, and there are also about 15000 names, however, upon closer examination of the issue, it turns out that MORE THAN HALF of "political" ones were convicted of CRIMINAL crimes, embezzlement, embezzlement and even banditry!;)

      But in Katyn, Beria, on Stalin's orders, calmed "a very unusual contingent in front of the 41st century. They were not like the worst enemies of the USSR - specific incurable Russophobes in practice, through the" Promethean "movement, inflating nationalist sentiments through very specific agents, the lists of which went to the Germans and They used it quite well for themselves. Exactly the same heirs of their cause, the Lord cleaned up with the help of the Smolensk birch and the gentry stupid, drunken pride at the airport almost there in our time.
    2. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 4 October 2015 17: 39
      Quote: Russian Uzbek
      and the shameful monument still stands
      30 September 2015

      Putin signed a decree on the construction of a memorial to the victims of political repression, designed by sculptor Georgy Frangulyan "Wall crying sorrow. "The monument will be erected at the intersection of Sadovaya-Spasskaya Street and Academician Sakharov Avenue.

      1. Basil50
        Basil50 4 October 2015 21: 39
        The place itself, except that the peasants executed by the tsarist * regime * or the victims of white terror will not be mentioned there, and of course those who were killed by terrorists and Basmachi sent from abroad, but wartime criminals will be recorded as * innocent * victims. Let the Chechen bandits who also suffered, only in the 90s, enter these * fighters with the regime * of the same order and one ideology.
        1. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 4 October 2015 22: 33
          Quote: Vasily50
          The place itself, but they won’t be mentioned there.
          Still more fun.

          Repression - (from late Lat. Repressio - suppression) - a punitive measure, the punishment applied by state bodies.

          Political repression is the 58th article, which almost completely coincides with Chapter 29 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation laughing

          Therefore, a monument to victims of political repression is either a monument to criminals who committed a crime against the foundations of the constitutional system and state security, or a monument to victims of judicial errors (in the "Stalinist" period, the number of acquittals was 11%, in the Russian Federation 1%) wassat
  • nafanal
    nafanal 4 October 2015 07: 32
    Yes, it has long been proved that the Poles were shot by the Germans, although they forced Russia to take this mokruha on themselves, but so far no court has accepted a lawsuit from any Pole. Considering the sheer mentality of the Psheks, there is no doubt that they would have overwhelmed all the courts of the world with their claims. time to send them to a famous place
  • cumastra1
    cumastra1 4 October 2015 07: 49
    Killed in Katyn? No! Not killed, but destroyed, eliminated, neutralized at worst. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. Each of those 20 could recruit a platoon of soldiers. And there, under the strict guidance of Hitler, yes from sea to sea. Here the blood would drink. So if they were destroyed, then by military necessity, and not by malice. Napoleon drowned the Mamelukes in the sea for thousands of times in order to save gunpowder. As Tamerlane acted in no way at all, he was probably only surpassed by the British in America. And nothing, no cookie. So they did everything right.
  • oracul
    oracul 4 October 2015 08: 14
    The reasoning of the Poles I personally do not cause anything but disgust - they are flawed. We wandered around Russia in troubled times, sat in the Kremlin, skidded almost to Arkhangelsk - they kicked out, got offended. In the 20th they attacked Soviet Russia, but they turned everything around and, using the foolishness of Trotsky and Tukhachevsky, accused us of assaulting Poland. About Katyn is generally funny. The USSR put half a million soldiers and officers for the liberation of Poland, but by Polish standards this is nothing compared to the color of the Polish nation that died in Katyn. Firstly, it was far from the color of the nation, secondly, everything was written with a pitchfork on the water, thirdly, and who dares to say that it was the USSR that did not lose the color of the nation, its best passionary part during the Great Patriotic War - 27 million man, in comparison with which the loss of these Polish and Western insignificants, who actually fought against us, is nothing. And they still blather !?
  • 31rus
    31rus 4 October 2015 08: 31
    This whole mess from without the action of the authorities and, first of all, attempts to distort, replace our history, and what do we want from the Poles, we must punish our own
  • parusnik
    parusnik 4 October 2015 09: 08
    It’s a pity, we are losing the information war, we don’t give a response, we’re embarrassed .. Everything is in our thoughts, but how will they look in the West, and will they not forbid me to go to Nice, whisper girls .. This is me about our "cultural workers" ..
    1. Kilo-11
      Kilo-11 4 October 2015 14: 09
      "... we are losing the information war ..." because in the state media, VGTRK, first of all, opportunists and sycophants work mainly, and we really need professional reporters who will tell the truth, no matter how pleasant or unpleasant for us and experts in conducting psychological operations are finite, and not just idle talkers who repeat the Kremlin slogans. As a positive example, the work of reporter K. Semin.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 4 October 2015 10: 05
    Until June 22, 1941, there were pioneer camps at the site where they later excavated the executed. I can’t imagine how it is possible to combine the resting place of the inhabitants of Smolensk and some kind of execution. Anyone who lies about OUR MOTHERLAND is a traitor, even if he is in * a position *, and must remember that we know that it was the Germans who shot the Poles in Katyn. The Poles anecdotally created their own state and themselves anecdotally destroyed it (pro..raly). For an incomplete decade, the Poles fought with all their neighbors, and even the Germans managed to spoil the benefactors. Honor does not allow the Poles to be sane, hence all the stupid things. A lot can be argued, but the facts can not be changed, the event happened and only * interpreters * try to * pass off * their feelings * as truth. The piracy regimes of the West in the person of Poland have found the best piarasts on any topic.
  • Glagol1
    Glagol1 4 October 2015 10: 20
    Link petition for cancellation?
  • provincial
    provincial 4 October 2015 10: 42
    “Russian“ liberals ”are not lagging behind Polish Russophobes. On September 17 this year, the Human Rights Center“ Memorial ”organized in Moscow a presentation of a 930-page book in memory of“ Killed in Katyn. ”“ Maybe it’s time for us to create books in memory of not only those killed in the Second World War, but all the times of the West's aggression in Russia - through the centuries, by years, by countries., by surname and poking the West in the nose. Put monuments closer to their borders, constantly cover them in the media and organize historical excursions, get them confessions and excuses. being shy.
  • RomanRimsky
    RomanRimsky 4 October 2015 11: 59
    It is high time to tear down all these Polish "memorials" (which they do with ours) and give them for 30 pieces of silver! And then they got it already, whoever did not have them and continues to have !!!
  • Kilo-11
    Kilo-11 4 October 2015 14: 55
    Since 1987, the Memorial organization has been waging a war with our country, with our people, with our history. Fully supported by various foreign funds from the USA, Great Britain, Germany, Switzerland, Israel, including one of the sponsors, the S. Batory / Poland /, of course, these "human rights defenders" carry out only the will of their foreign masters. So these gentlemen have nothing to do with our soldiers, who were brutally killed by the Poles in 1812 near Gzhatsk or in their camps in 1919-1921. .g., they have nothing to do with the graves of our soldiers, which the Polish Nazis periodically desecrate on their territory. The gentlemen from the "Memorial" have their "heroes", their own war. The "Memorial" organization is not just the fifth column in our country, it is a full-fledged branch of foreign special services and the United States in the first place. The Memorial organization unites in its ranks people who sincerely hate our people and our country, although they have passports of the Russian Federation in their pockets, they live among us and on our land Alas, the current ones are liberal e authorities only contribute to the activities of this enemy organization.
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  • Captain45
    Captain45 4 October 2015 21: 03
    This is a building of the former Noble Assembly in Buzuluk, Orenburg Region.
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  • Captain45
    Captain45 4 October 2015 21: 13
    And this is a memorial plaque on this building. And what can be added here to Sir W. Churchill's thought about Poland, "the hyenas of Europe"