Military Review

What our children teach, or the "Stalinist Trial"

218
Educational institutions of the Russian Federation celebrated the onset of the new school year in different ways. In some, they switched to updated educational programs, in others they solemnly opened new educational buildings and received the necessary equipment and training materials for the full educational process, and in the third they looked for alternative reasons for celebration. Moreover, it happened that the alternative was clearly off scale ...




In the newspaper "Tomorrow"The editor-in-chief of which is Alexander Prokhanov, a writer and public figure, published material from Tatiana Voevodina last weekend, which reported that on September 3 a very specific event was held at Moscow International University (MUM). This event, dedicated to the beginning of the school year at the university, was called the meeting of the initiative group for the "Public trial of Stalinism and the crimes of the power of the Soviet period." Nothing more ...

The meeting “MUM members” was conducted with such enthusiasm that in the framework of the “trial” it was decided to create as many as several working groups, each of which had to focus on certain facts of “crimes of the most bloodthirsty dictators”. One group presented to the “court” materials on the legal examination of the “criminal” orders (decrees) of the Stalin period, another was supposed to be the prosecutor for the Stalinist repressions, the third was on the same accusatory line against Stalin for “crimes against the economy, science and culture”, and the fourth was to systematize all the material in order to prepare a course of lectures for students (and even schoolchildren), as well as a selection of articles and notes about the “bloody Stalinist gebni” for the media and the Internet. t-resources.

All the familiar faces took Stalin to judge at MUM, they are also the leading “experts on the bloody gebne”: Nikolai Svanidze (I think, he doesn’t need a special presentation), Yuri Pivovarov (head of the Institute of Scientific Information on Social Sciences, during which a large-scale fire lost the scientific and literary heritage stored in the library of INION, involved in the case of negligence) Leonid Gozman (President of the Union of Right Forces, not long ago, who identified the activities of SMERSH with the activities of the Nazi SS units, he (Gozman) ex-representative of the Rosnano elite), Lev Ponomarev (executive director of the movement “For Human Rights”, author of the idea of ​​creating the Congress of the Russian intelligentsia “condemning the annexation of the Crimea”, Commander of the Cross of Commander “For Services to the Republic of Poland”, awarded on the basis of a decree of Lech Kaczynski in 2010 year), Igor Chubais (the brother of the very same ... he expressed his admiration for the Ukrainian Maidan and declared the illegitimacy of the Russian authorities), etc.

This, by the way, is the statement of I. Chubais about "illegitimacy":


So, these gentlemen gathered at the university to once again indulge in ecstasy from the fact that they can afford not only to "judge" Stalinism, but also to create a course of lectures and other "scientific materials" on the basis of their gatherings, which later again flow into Russian schools and universities.

And what kind of a MUM is this, in which a wonderful in all respects Kompashka is going to, well, not able to calm down in any way, without building another “epic” about how Stalin covered everything with “corpses”, about “one rifle for three” , that “the Allies saved the USSR perishing”, etc, etc, etc ... And MUM is a very interesting institution of higher education that will celebrate its 25 anniversary next year. What is it interesting? - Well, at least by the fact that the decision to open it was made in 1991 by the presidents of the USSR and the USA, Mikhail Gorbachev and George Bush Sr.. You must admit that not every university in Russia can boast that the decision on its creation was made by the head of state after a conversation with the head of another state ... The first president of MUM was Gavriil Popov (the first mayor of Moscow), who formulated, as much as possible, the “elitism principle” of the university , today having the status of autonomous.

On the the official website University "principle of elitism" voiced in the framework of the "mission of the university":
The mission of the university is to implement the principles of elite higher education for the preparation of highly qualified specialists engaged both directly in business and in creating favorable social and political conditions for its development.
The mission of the university is based on three basic principles: elitism, internationalism, focus on business development.
The International University in Moscow is an elite education, an elite composition of teachers and students, elite career prospects of graduates.


К elite teachers elite universities include (relate), for example, such people as Yuri Luzhkov, who was once dismissed from the post of mayor of Moscow with the wording “due to loss of confidence” (apparently, the elite level of Yuri Mikhailovich still made itself felt ...); Gennady Burbulis, whose elitism manifested itself almost immediately after a decision was made to create a Soviet (Russian) -American university, namely in December 1991, during the preparation of the so-called Belovezhsk agreements on the collapse of the USSR, Vasily Popov, whose elitism, judging by everything, inherited from his father (President of the MUM and the ex-mayor of Moscow) Gavriil Popov.

And now elite I decided once again to declare myself, and, judging by the materials of Tatiana Voevodina, I chose for this a familiar scheme - a liberal collection, God forgive me, intelligentsia, in which all conscious life is devoted to one thing - how to smear that liberal with crap again period storieswhen the Soviet Union broke the teeth of the then "partners." To smear - once, not to give about yourself - to forget two. Forget really did not give ...

Discussion of the “trial of Stalin” by those who experience a permanent orgasm from this should be left to psychiatric specialists. After all, the “trial” of a person in the history of the country is nothing else but a gathering of sociopolitical noisy liliputians, trying once again to shout enough, satisfying each other, does not resemble ... And again, the classic question is: "Who are the judges?"

It is much more important that in the near future on the shelves of school and university libraries can appear again "works", adopted to call a derivative of Soros's literature. - Literature that the Soviet Union is an “empire of evil”, that between Stalin and Hitler one should certainly put an equal sign, that everyone repressed in 30-40-e has been “somehow wrong” rehabilitated, that Russians need to repent before "Partners" for the fact that the Russians have not yet trample down the portraits of Stalin along with the portraits of the warlords of the era of the Great Patriotic War (after all, the war was won, of course, only by General Frost and Marshal Lend-Lease ...).

It would seem that for heresy? .. These "judicial" lectures in any universities will not fall, because our Ministry of Education and Science will not miss the new pseudo-historic pearls in educational institutions. Well, yes, yes ... And how do you like that (information from the MUM site):

The International University in Moscow has been recognized as an effective university for the fourth year in a row. 15 June 2015 The Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation announced the completion of data analysis as part of the monitoring of the quality of educational activities of universities. The international university in Moscow exceeded the threshold values ​​for monitoring indicators, as well as in the three previous monitors of the Ministry of Education and Science (May 2014, November 2013, and December 2012) and entered 2015 in the number of effective universities in the Russian Federation.

"Courts" of domestic historical personalities, the lectures of Mr Bykov and Makarevich, "deifying" everything that could lead to the rejection of Crimea from Russia, the organization of meetings of the American Ambassador J. Tefft with university students, lectures on the "achievements" of Gorbachev's restructuring, - by In all likelihood, this, in the opinion of the Ministry of Education and Science, is the effectiveness of educational activities in the country. But dozens of the oldest, for example, pedagogical universities in Russia are closed, being recognized by the same Ministry of Education as ineffective ... Or, closed educational institutions (universities) of the Russian Federation also had to invite Svanidze, Makarevich and Tefft for efficiency and elitism, not forgetting to administer justice more often. Stalinism and bloody gebney? ..
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  1. S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 15 September 2015 06: 05 New
    +47
    He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed. Although 15-20 years ago it was very fashionable to have a repressed relative. And in Moscow or St. Petersburg, apparently, every second "bloody gebnya" repressed (sarcasm). Get out of Moscow, and it’s dangerous there, they suddenly repress.
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 06: 13 New
      +15
      Quote: S_Baykala
      I’ve never heard of any repressed friends.

      Not so simple with repression. Not all of them were Stalinist.

    2. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 06: 48 New
      +29
      No, in Moscow, too, it seemed like there was nothing to hear about. I talked with my grandmother when she was still alive, about whether there were those same “terrible repressions” about which they shouted in the 30s and 40s? And there was this conversation in the 90s. Grandma said that she had never heard of anything like that, none of her relatives, friends, acquaintances and colleagues had been arrested or something like that.
      And my grandmother, consider the witness of that era was.
      So who will I believe? )))
      Well, and about all these dirty saliva from any abomination to our past flying, I can say one thing.
      They, all these dirty tricks, break our brains BUT to our children, these are our children, and only from childhood we can give the correct concepts about what is what and who is who. And if we do this, in the future they will not be guilty of the vile tales of any dirty public. Children, our future, the future of our Country, educate them correctly. In order not to lose this Country and its past !!!
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 07: 35 New
        -22
        You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of grandmother. And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of the documents, send him to the archive to read the Pravda newspaper, the Stalin banner and pay attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies. And your child will see that his father is ... stupid. Aloud may not speak, but will cease to respect in the soul. I've already seen this ...
        1. Glot
          Glot 15 September 2015 09: 02 New
          +24
          You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of the grandmother.


          Well, ooh, my grandmother, thank God, did not write memoirs. ))) And by the way, she did not suffer from a special passion for the Communists)), she was a normal, adequate person.
          And of course, I did not give any knowledge to my child only in her words, but, prompting what you can read, and what and whom you can trust and who should not, I gave thanks to God. Otherwise, time will tell.
          Well, if you bring up your children on the opuses of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, well, then it is clear that you and who. At least for me ...
          1. Fight cat
            Fight cat 15 September 2015 11: 41 New
            -22
            why, on the opuses of these comrades, the NKVD archive is enough, for two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot. Documented data. On average, in a year, 1200 people were shot, and how many just didn’t get to the place of links like that. A normal occurrence was if 10-15% of the exiles did not reach the site. Goblin with them with Svanidze and others ...
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 04 New
              +15
              “Over two years, 714 shot more than a thousand people. Documented data. On average, a year, 1200 people were shot” - is this kind of math or the hand trembled and forgot to reread?
              1. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 12: 58 New
                -26
                Quote: kalibr
                - is it such math or the hand trembled, but forgot to re-read?

                Study the documents, scoundrel. And do not forget, in the second series, you will most likely be the first in line. And your family members. Under Stalin, family members were held not as counter-revolutionaries, but as "socially alien" and "socially dangerous." You will find them in the column "Other crimes". I wish you to wait for what you so want.
                There are statistics since 1921. Stalin actually became the head of state since 1924. How many are executed on his conscience, and how many tortured you can count yourself.
                This is not like "grandma's stories." This is the official reference of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs. Document.
                1. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 13: 07 New
                  +7
                  Quote: turk
                  You will find them in the column "Other crimes"
                  fool

                  Stalin actually became the head of state
                  fool
                  1. turk
                    turk 15 September 2015 13: 23 New
                    -14
                    Why are you posting your anime?
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 15 September 2015 18: 29 New
                      +1
                      So, my beloved brethren, let every man be quick to hear, slow in words, slow in anger,
                      (Jacob 1: 19)
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 14: 54 New
                    +1
                    I’ll do it at least once. wink
                  4. The comment was deleted.
                2. Glot
                  Glot 15 September 2015 13: 08 New
                  +8
                  And what is it possible to find out?
                  Is this an archival document? It doesn't look like ... I can now make a similar tablet in exel and write the numbers there, and last names ...
                  If you cited this as some kind of documentary evidence, then this is not it, it is so, it is unclear what, where and why at all.
                  1. turk
                    turk 15 September 2015 13: 24 New
                    -10
                    Take an interest in the Internet. This is the official certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If the certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not a document, then I do not know what a document is. Then throw out your passport. Why do you need it? He is from the same source. So, unreliable, in your opinion.
                    1. Glot
                      Glot 15 September 2015 13: 43 New
                      +11
                      Take an interest in the Internet. This is the official certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If the certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not a document, then I do not know what a document is. Then throw out your passport. Why do you need it? He is from the same source. So, unreliable, in your opinion.


                      Not even funny ...
                      You surrender to me; you haven’t seen any official documents in my eyes. )))
                      Here is what you dug somewhere in the vast expanses of the network, you can also dig there, so that, as Comrade Bender said, do not make yourself a fool. )))
                      Oops, I-II, what a nightmare to do with people ...)))
                      1. turk
                        turk 15 September 2015 13: 59 New
                        -14
                        "How many * are not in the eye, all God's dew."
                      2. Glot
                        Glot 15 September 2015 14: 54 New
                        +5
                        How many are not * in the eye, all God's dew


                        Something is weak somehow you are doing this thing ... Well, I mean wee in the eye. )) A weak stream. You do not have prostatitis for an hour ?? )))
                        But in general, I think you are the meritor of MUM.
                        As soon as we registered, and immediately to this topic, and daaavay "documents" to pour. Are they riveted THERE? )))
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Andriuha077
                      Andriuha077 15 September 2015 15: 15 New
                      +4
                      In the previous article we examined in detail the exact figures on the number of repressed and simply convicted citizens in Stalin’s USSR. Now we will try to figure out where they grow from the roots of constantly replicating myths that hundreds of thousands of millions of human lives have been ruined.
                      http://red-sovet.su/post/author/pyhalov
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              2. Comrade Bender
                Comrade Bender 15 September 2015 13: 34 New
                +1
                Do not take an example of the publication of “documents” from the SBU and the Khokhlogabonovsky media, my dear. Make yourself a fool.
                1. turk
                  turk 15 September 2015 13: 45 New
                  -12
                  Do not publicize your identity. Sick.
                  1. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 14: 57 New
                    +5
                    Quote: turk
                    Do not publicize your identity. Sick.

                    Two fingers in your mouth over the toilet will save you from nausea. laughing
                  2. tank64rus
                    tank64rus 15 September 2015 19: 40 New
                    0
                    Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937. 3 million Russians worked at the level of Pol Pot. This was said by Karaulov in his program, everyone was there and Yeltsin and Gaidar and Chubais and so on. He challenged you to refute, but you can see the gut is thin.
                    1. RUSS
                      RUSS 16 September 2015 18: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: tank64rus
                      Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937.

                      The main thing is that he recently voiced the GDP, and he said in another television interview that the Stalin regime was URODIC,
                    2. turk
                      turk 16 September 2015 19: 48 New
                      +1
                      Quote: tank64rus
                      your favorite americano liberals

                      Here is another Stalinist translates arrows. He is not interested in talking about almost a million shot by his idol. He likes to tell HZ about what. Just off topic.
                  3. tank64rus
                    tank64rus 15 September 2015 19: 40 New
                    0
                    Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937. 3 million Russians worked at the level of Pol Pot. This was said by Karaulov in his program, everyone was there and Yeltsin and Gaidar and Chubais and so on. He challenged you to refute, but you can see the gut is thin.
              3. kenvas
                kenvas 15 September 2015 17: 23 New
                +2
                And where are the millions of millions of executed ???
                1. turk
                  turk 15 September 2015 17: 37 New
                  -13
                  Quote: kenvas
                  And where are the millions of millions of executed ???

                  A decent person and one is enough.
                  Wretch, all will be few.
                  799455 people executed, is it not enough?
                  Then, perhaps, you suggest not recalling the 632000 dead in Leningrad? Maybe this is not enough for you too?
                  And of the millions planted in the Gulag, do you think many returned home? You are mistaken.
                  1. kenvas
                    kenvas 15 September 2015 18: 45 New
                    +4
                    Read Solzhenitsyn again, only chur in the original ... The comment there is that the work does not pretend to be a historical document and is a thin work. And I don’t need to poke, we are not even familiar with you, but apparently you are not even familiar with politeness and tact. and now count the statistics of the USA how many people who were imprisoned and sentenced to death were there over the same time period, there were also about the camps and how many Japanese I was exiled and died there from 41 to 46 of the year. Nerd you are our liberal historian
                    1. turk
                      turk 15 September 2015 18: 50 New
                      -6
                      Quote: kenvas
                      Now count the US statistics

                      Why are you jumping off topic? No need to translate arrows.
                      Quote: kenvas
                      And I don’t need to poke

                      What remains to be done? Somehow the same must be addressed. And it is politely to appeal to individuals who consider that 799455 people. just shot fellow citizens, this is not interesting garbage, I do not consider it necessary.
                    2. kenvas
                      kenvas 15 September 2015 19: 02 New
                      0
                      have I hinted somewhere that this is not interesting garbage?
                    3. turk
                      turk 15 September 2015 19: 06 New
                      -1
                      Quote: kenvas
                      have I hinted somewhere that this is not interesting garbage?

                      Hinted at.
                    4. The comment was deleted.
              4. Oprychnik
                Oprychnik 15 September 2015 19: 46 New
                +4
                This number also includes criminals shot for serious crimes, their darkness was after the Time of Troubles, saboteurs who harmed the new state with all their might, traitors to the homeland who were deservedly punished by Soviet justice, who were dark, and judging by your yapping, one of their descendants, a candle factory was taken from your dad, here you are and spoil the air ...
                1. turk
                  turk 15 September 2015 19: 51 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Oprychnik
                  deservedly punished by Soviet justice

                  Here you are. Another villain drew himself. Soon he will declare that in Leningrad, out of the 632000 dead, not all were innocent victims. Therefore, there the score is not correct.
              5. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 16 September 2015 02: 04 New
                +6
                Quote: turk
                Then maybe you will suggest not to remember 632000 dead in Leningrad? Maybe this is not enough for you too?

                And, sorry, is Stalin to blame for this too? And I thought the Munich conspiracy of Great Britain and France, with which they actually blessed Hitler for war. Or do you, like Yehu of Moscow (or who of their gang are there?) Think that “Leningrad had to be surrendered in order to avoid casualties”? ..

                My grandfather, the tankman, Leningrad defended, from the workshop of the Kirov factory through a breach in the wall he hit the Germans with direct fire. He had two Orders of Glory. And over the bed to death in 79, a portrait of Stalin in a full uniform hung. You would have told him about the futile sacrifices! About the fact that Stalin was guilty of the death of the blockade! ..

                Sorry, but I trusted my grandfather more than all of our Svanidzam-Pivovarovs and other Makarevichs combined.
                1. turk
                  turk 16 September 2015 19: 50 New
                  0
                  Quote: Zoldat_A
                  And, sorry, is Stalin to blame for this too?

                  You do not shy away from the topic. The conversation was not about Leningrad.
                2. Fight cat
                  Fight cat 23 September 2015 13: 42 New
                  0
                  not only Stalin was to blame, but the whole party elite, they were preparing for war for 20 years, they even helped the Nazis of a diverse spill, but in the end half of the country was lost (just do not yell that this was not half the country was lost by the brilliant commander Stalin) under Nikolashka such garbage did not have!! hi
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 18: 23 New
            0
            I modestly pointed out the error and immediately became a scoundrel? Ah-ah!
            1. turk
              turk 15 September 2015 18: 34 New
              -1
              Quote: kalibr
              I humbly pointed out the mistake and immediately became a villain?

              Yes, I apologize. I misunderstood you.
              I can’t fix it, therefore, as a separate comment.
              1. MrK
                MrK 16 September 2015 01: 01 New
                0
                Please skip my first comment and read the second. Some kind of computer failure. respectfully
          3. MrK
            MrK 16 September 2015 00: 11 New
            +2
            Quote: turk
            Study the documents, scoundrel.

            That's right, you scoundrel. You can’t see the numbers behind the forest, so read the history of the USSR and study the documents. In the camps up to 90% there were criminals.
            Yes, there were innocently injured and even executed.
            But. Respected. You simply do not know the history of the USSR. As for repression, The January plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks of 1938 openly recognized the lawlessness committed against honest communists and non-partisans, having adopted a special resolution on this subject, published, by the way, in all central newspapers. Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.), Noting "provocations on an all-Union scale, ”demanded: Expose careerists who strive to excel ... in repression. Expose the artfully disguised enemy, trying to disguise his hostility with cries of vigilance and remain in the party, seeking by means of repression to kill our Bolshevik cadres, sowing uncertainty and excessive suspicion in our ranks».
            It was also openly, throughout the country, talking about the harm caused by unjustified repressions at the XVIII Congress of the CPSU (B.) Held in the 1939.
            Immediately after the January plenary session of the 1938 Central Committee, thousands of illegally repressed people, including prominent military leaders, began to return from places of detention. Around 323 000 people were released from the camps. All of them were officially rehabilitated, and Stalin personally apologized to some. Well, as regards the responsibility of the NKVD, the NKVD apparatus was probably the most affected by the repressions, and a significant part was held accountable precisely for abuse of power, for reprisals against honest people. 68 000 NKVDshnikov were fired. Of these, 23 000 went to trial and received huge sentences. And from them 8 000 NKVDshnikov were shot for fabricated counter-revolutionary affairs.
            And do not get hysterical because of the numbers.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. turk
              turk 16 September 2015 19: 54 New
              -1
              Quote: mrark
              as regards repression, the January plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) of 1938 openly recognized lawlessness,

              VKP (b) went to the back. Stalin, how was the head of the VKP (b) arrested and tried? It was? Not this way? Then all this is bullshit. The chatter of the Bolsheviks.
              And 700000 dead, they did not care about rehabilitation.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          4. MrK
            MrK 16 September 2015 00: 54 New
            +1
            I agree that you need to study the documents, scoundrel. Dear villain, you simply do not know the history of the USSR. As for the role of Stalin, who became the full owner only in the 1938 year, then the January plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) 1938 openly recognized the lawlessness committed against honest communists and non-partisan, having adopted a special resolution on this subject, published, incidentally, in all central newspapers. Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.), Demanded: Expose the artfully disguised enemy, trying to disguise his hostility with cries of vigilance and remain in the party, seeking by means of repression to kill our Bolshevik cadres, sowing uncertainty and excessive suspicion in our ranks».
            It was also openly, throughout the country, about the harm caused by unjustified repressions at the in the 1939 XVIII Congress of the CPSU (b).

            Immediately after the January plenary session of the 1938 Central Committee, thousands of illegally repressed people, including prominent military leaders, began to return from places of detention. More than 323 000 has been released from camps.
            All of them were officially rehabilitated, and Stalin personally apologized to some.
            Well, as regards the role of the NKVD, the NKVD apparatus was probably the hardest hit by the repressions, and a significant part was held accountable precisely for abuse of power, for reprisals against honest people. CHECKERS BATTERING DOWN, FIRED, ARRESTED, And 8 000 was Shot, of 23 000 put on trial.
            By the way, almost all the shot Chekists were to a specific ethnic group. I will list: A. Radzivilovsky; Berman B.D .; Reichman L.I .; Schneerson MB I want to ask, but you do not belong to this ethnic group? It is the heirs of this ethnos who scream today the most. You mourn about almost 800 000 executed during the 33 years - before the death of Stalin. Of which more than half were ordinary bandits and killers.
            But you don’t give a damn about almost 11 million healthy Russian men who passed away from hopelessness from 93 to 2003 years. In just 10 years.
            As already got these liberal pid ... Aras.
            1. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 01: 18 New
              -1
              Quote: mrark
              Regarding the role of Stalin, become a full owner only in 1938 year
              That is definitely someone ruining laughing

              According to the system of our Constitution, the USSR should not have a sole president, elected by the entire population, on a par with the Supreme Council, and able to oppose the Supreme Council. The collegiate president in the USSR is the Presidium of the Supreme Council, including the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council, elected not by the entire population, but by the Supreme Council and accountable to the Supreme Council. The experience of history shows that such a construction of the supreme organs is the most democratic, guaranteeing the country from undesirable accidents.
              I. Stalin T.14 s.144
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 16 September 2015 01: 23 New
                +1
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                According to the system of our Constitution, the USSR should not have a sole president, elected by the entire population, on a par with the Supreme Council, and able to oppose the Supreme Council.

                Two quotes come to mind at once: about "and there is firewood" and "all animals are equal, but some are equal"

                This is the question of the fact that in the Constitution, of course, everything is correctly written .. but life - it is much richer and more diverse.

                Voooot repeat
                1. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 01: 40 New
                  0
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  Two quotes come to mind at once
                  As well as the concept of "absolute monarchy" and Pasha number of times.

                  "Democratic centralism" - Google to help laughing
                2. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 16 September 2015 01: 41 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Uncle Joe
                  "Democratic centralism" - Google to help

                  Knock knock I'm here. Well, sho, do you support the 5th paragraph of Glazyev’s report or not?
                3. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 02: 43 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Knock knock I'm here
                  And here Eech granted, but the address "a little bit" was mistaken lol
                4. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 16 September 2015 02: 56 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Uncle Joe
                  And here Eech granted, but the address "a little bit" was mistaken

                  Like damn, you are tired of Ankla Bensa sad
                5. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 05: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Like damn, you are tired of Ankla Bensa

                  "Only when everyone dies will the Great Game end." Rudyard Kipling.

                  These profiles and those sold to us will never leave you alone. Their main task is the destruction of Russia, as the only country that poses a real threat of destruction for them.

                  There is a sea of ​​poured quotes from these enclaves of all stripes and countries.
          5. Cat man null
            Cat man null 16 September 2015 01: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: Uncle Joe
            "Democratic centralism" - Google to help

            Yes, I remember .. from the History of the Party course, I was such a freshman ..

            The principle itself is that .. lure for the people, by the way .. wink
          6. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 02: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            The principle itself is that .. lure for the people
            Yeah, especially if implemented in practice smile

            But the question remains: how was the sampling and measurement audit carried out, and where can I look at actually confirmed data on the presence of firewood instead of the indicated, as well as the results of measurements of the equalities?
          7. Cat man null
            Cat man null 16 September 2015 03: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Uncle Joe
            Yeah, especially if implemented in practice

            Well, so ... we think in a mirror way wink

            Quote: Uncle Joe
            But the question remains: how was the intake-measurement audit carried out,

            ... the girls climbed - checked

            Quote: Uncle Joe
            and where you can look at actually confirmed data on the presence of firewood instead of the specified

            But in order to "look" - you have to climb yourself .. either on the fence or in Google ..

            Quote: Uncle Joe
            equality results

            The result of measuring equalities is strongly .. belay
          8. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 03: 47 New
            0
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            think the same way
            Oh how ?! belay

            But to "look" - you have to climb yourself
            So what's stopping you? I've climbed, looked - everything is as it is written (exception is the period of the Second World War).

            And if it were otherwise, then we would not have to oppose Stalin to Lenin, hang all the dogs on Stalin, remove the party members from the direct action of the Criminal Code, change the concept of “counter-revolutionary crime” to “state crime” in the Criminal Code, carry out the “Kosygin” reform, change in the 77th constitution, and in the end to restore the post of sole president.

            strongly
            And then! laughing
        2. turk
          turk 16 September 2015 20: 00 New
          -2
          Quote: Uncle Joe
          Yeah, especially if implemented in practice

          In practice, this rubbish is impossible to implement. This is something like sweet salt. Or white coal. The usual Bolshevik nonsense.
        3. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 20: 37 New
          0
          Quote: turk
          In practice, this rubbish is impossible to implement
          It is impossible to implement the binding decisions of higher authorities for lower ones with the election of all bodies and their accountability to lower ones? wassat
        4. turk
          turk 16 September 2015 20: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Uncle Joe
          with the election of all organs

          Well, I got my barrel organ again. Well, where in the USSR did you see selectivity? Even the new chairman of the collective farm was represented by the instructor of the district committee. After which he was "chosen". Not the animal husbandry of Vasya, but the one whom the instructor represented. And no one else.
        5. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 17 September 2015 04: 30 New
          0
          They chose the one they wanted.

          If someone was more influenced by the authority of authority, rather than the authority of authority, then this is the problem of the individual (or society - if such individuals turned out to be the majority), and not the system.
        6. turk
          turk 17 September 2015 09: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Uncle Joe
          They chose the one they wanted.

          Clear. And what color is black? Green or purple?
  • MrK
    MrK 16 September 2015 12: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: Uncle Joe
    The collegiate president in the USSR is the Presidium of the Supreme Council, including the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council, elected not by the entire population, but by the Supreme Council and accountable to the Supreme Council.

    I do not argue. But to confirm the idea, I am sending you to the book of my colleague, A. Kurlyandchik, “Cursed SOVIET AUTHORITY” ... on Proza.ru
  • turk
    turk 16 September 2015 19: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Uncle Joe
    I. Stalin T.14 s.144

    Do you even have your own thoughts sometimes?
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  • although
    although 16 September 2015 15: 30 New
    0
    "Matroskin: Mustache, paws and tail - these are my documents!
    Pechkin: There is always a seal on documents. Do you have a seal - on the tail? (raises Matroskin by the scruff of the neck) Huh? No! And the mustache and ... (it closes with a parcel for a second, after which it appears with a mustache) fake ... you can. "

    and yes, I doubt that in official documents of the 53rd year the shrites were changed on a typewriter
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Weyland
    Weyland 15 September 2015 19: 43 New
    +3
    714 thousand - this is for the 1937-38th, "Yezhovschina." For other years - indeed 2 orders of magnitude less. BUT the vast majority of victims 1937-38 - old communists, most of whom themselves had their hands in blood. As stated in the movie Shirley-Myrli, "these are ours internal showdown - the gentiles do not understand! "(c)
    1. turk
      turk 16 September 2015 20: 08 New
      0
      Quote: Weyland
      BUT the vast majority of the victims of 1937-38 are the old communists,

      Quote: Weyland
      "This is our internal showdown - the gentiles do not understand!"

      Below is a list of those shot along Aviamotornaya Street in Moscow. Out of 13 people 8 non-partisan. Yes, and 5 party members do not pull on party bones. It is understandable, in those years it was the outskirts of the city.
      And there are two of the Jews. Moreover, only one of them is party. So, on this topic, too, is not necessary.
    2. Fight cat
      Fight cat 23 September 2015 14: 25 New
      0
      the communists themselves told you that, my great-grandfather was not a communist, was arrested in 1937, his further fate is not known in the archives does not appear. at that time he was an engineer at a flour mill, before that he had served in the Tsar’s army, during the Civil War, he was arrested twice and taken to death. A month after the arrest in 1937, the family was evicted from their home, a 5-wall wooden hut, and my grandfather lived in a dugout for another two years until he moved to relatives in the Volga region. they could not find in the archives where and how the great-grandfather was shot and buried! and in 1945 he was arrested for a bag of grain, which he picked up in the field, after harvesting one grain bag remained. The NKVD put a wand on the theft of socialist property and malicious pests and saboteurs. what the hell communists am in those years, most of the executed peasants and former commanders of the Red Army and Red Army
  • Fight cat
    Fight cat 23 September 2015 13: 34 New
    0
    no, this is not taking into account two years !!! those from which many still hiccup!
  • Glot
    Glot 15 September 2015 12: 12 New
    +2
    in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot. On average, 1200 people were shot per year


    That's what it means to read nonsense without thinking. ))))
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 45 New
      +1
      Yes, the Fight Cat wrote clearly without thinking it over ... I agree!
    2. Fight cat
      Fight cat 23 September 2015 14: 11 New
      0
      excluding two years .... hi many faithful Stalinists always want to whiten red, and for some reason, gloss over with white blood, well, because the winners write history, isn’t it! To call the Bloody Tsar Nicholas II who signed the death penalty in a year no more than three hundred, given the fact that they fought against terrorists staging constant terrorist attacks! hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Comrade Bender
    Comrade Bender 15 September 2015 13: 31 New
    +3
    And where did you have the opportunity to touch the archives of the NKVD? Or are these figures from "confirmed" sources, such as MUM?
  • aleks 62 next
    aleks 62 next 15 September 2015 13: 46 New
    +9
    ...., in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot ...

    .... Even if it’s true, it’s a lot .... And you don’t want to count the millions who were rotten and killed by the liberals in the 90s ... Those who were starving to death in abandoned villages beyond the Arctic Circle and the polar islands ?? ? .... And those who died of poverty and starvation in the abandoned and devastated Moscow Region Zelenograd in the early 90's ???? .... This is the truth, which the so-called liberals do not like to remember .... Remember Yegor Gaidar ???? .... When he stated to this that the new people were born, it was necessary to "be patient" ....
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 15 September 2015 15: 21 New
      0
      Do you want to compare the suffering of those who lived in their own warm houses in Zelenograd with those who were thrown out without shelter and things in a clean field of northern Kazakhstan or Siberian forests and who literally froze if they did not have time to dig a dugout? Compare the starvation of people who imagine themselves without work, without the ability to at least hunt and thereby get a piece of bread with the problem of losing their jobs in a city located a few stops away from populous Moscow, where you could always find a job if you wanted? Yes, in the dashing 90, the overwhelming majority of the population of the country fell strongly, many enterprises did not pay salaries for months, sometimes people sold property to buy food. But these deprivations are simply incomparable with what our grandfathers and great-grandfathers survived (even those who were lucky enough not to fall under the repression machine) in the 20's - 50's of the last century
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Fight cat
      Fight cat 23 September 2015 14: 33 New
      0
      Quote: aleks 62 next
      ...., in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot ...

      .... Even if it’s true, it’s a lot .... And you don’t want to count the millions who were rotten and killed by the liberals in the 90s ... Those who were starving to death in abandoned villages beyond the Arctic Circle and the polar islands ?? ? .... And those who died of poverty and starvation in the abandoned and devastated Moscow Region Zelenograd in the early 90's ???? .... This is the truth, which the so-called liberals do not like to remember .... Remember Yegor Gaidar ???? .... When he stated to this that the new people were born, it was necessary to "be patient" ....


      remind a colleague, and who raised these liberals or they came from the air !!!
      for me it’s a direct policy of those same liquid Bolsheviks who play into the hands of the Anglo-Saxons !!! how many were you remember !!! wassat
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 15 September 2015 19: 13 New
    0
    So how many were shot? In the year of 1200, or in the year of 307000? Decide first, and then teach.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 02 New
    0
    How do you hastily judge people, eh? "Do not rashly judge, says the Gospel and ... Mr. Cardinal," said D'Artagnan, right? And then my children are already raised, for 40 ... they themselves will bring up and educate anyone. Just not so much on the kitchen level about serious, right? Grandma told me ... and my grandfather, a hundred years at lunch! And if you go the other way, then this is just what you need. Worse, if the memories of relatives dominate. In this we agree, is not it?
    1. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 12: 38 New
      +2
      My grandmother told me ... and my grandfather, a hundred years in the afternoon! And if you go the other way, then this is just what you need. Worse if family memories dominate. In this we agree, right?


      It is clear that the topic needs to be comprehensively studied, but eyewitness accounts cannot be ruled out categorically.
      And these memories do not dominate in me, just when all the dregs fell out actively on people, in the 90s, charring the past, I asked and received such an answer from one of the eyewitnesses.
      Perhaps if I interviewed ten to twenty people, the opinion would be somewhat different but, I asked one and was satisfied with the answer and closed the topic for myself. Actually, I especially did not open it. )))
      Yes, by the way, I didn’t ask my grandfather.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 44 New
        0
        But to me, you advise just eyewitnesses!
        1. Glot
          Glot 15 September 2015 12: 50 New
          +1
          But to me, you advise just eyewitnesses!


          I AM ? Yes, God be with you ... I do not advise anyone at all, in principle. Just gave an example by responding to the post "S_Baikal" and no more.
          And, I seem to have never argued that there was no repression as such. I just very, very strongly doubt the liberals (and enemies) who are swollen by the hysteria of the scale of these.
          That's all. )))
  • Zoldat_A
    Zoldat_A 16 September 2015 01: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Glot
    if you bring up your children on the opus of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, then, then it is clear that you and who.

    And if we had ALL children on the opuses of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, then there would be nothing to talk about - Russia would not exist as such from the 1991 year ...

    Generally of course The list of speakers is impressive. I read and think - Breivik in 2011 didn’t wander there. He would have been entertained by such a “court” himself, and society would benefit. At least Russian.
  • kashtak
    kashtak 15 September 2015 10: 05 New
    +4
    c
    Quote: kalibr
    And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of documents, send to the archive to read the newspaper Pravda, the Stalin banner and draw attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies.

    you still need to be able to work with documents. inconsistencies often arise when an incomplete set of documents. Stalin's regime was a tough regime, I agree. but here is the question in 1941 to a million of those with whom Stalin fought voluntarily ran to the Nazis. and probably even more deserted. look through the documents you will find more accurate numbers. your professor will probably show you the documents about the removal of grain. but about the demand for "free market" trade at inflated prices? But about sabotage sowing? But about the famine in several provinces? yes, local government could be illiterate or even do more harm than good. and then where did you get competent managers? after the civil then? and who then consider stupid?
    1. Down House
      Down House 15 September 2015 10: 13 New
      0
      Quote: kashtak
      up to a million of those with whom Stalin fought voluntarily ran to the Nazis.

      No one "voluntarily" ran across, and the Nazi army occupied part of the USSR and people were captured.
      The fact that out of the millions-millions of occupied there were those who, under pain of death, agreed to serve the enemy is a property of the cowardly layman of any country.
      1. kashtak
        kashtak 15 September 2015 13: 04 New
        +4
        Quote: Down House

        No one "voluntarily" ran across, and the Nazi army occupied part of the USSR and people were captured.

        yah! and eyewitnesses say the exact opposite. many went to the police and the Waffen-SS. and among them were former fists and elders. for such a full of crimes where the Nazis were not a single one. tried hard. if they were afraid they would just sit at home. although there were those who were recruited in concentration camps.
        1. Down House
          Down House 15 September 2015 13: 09 New
          0
          Quote: kashtak
          many went to the police and the Waffen-SS.

          And many more voluntarily go racketeering bandits, they are bandits and criminals, and their attitude to the current government in no way makes them political criminals!
          1. kashtak
            kashtak 15 September 2015 14: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Down House

            And many more voluntarily go racketeering bandits, they are bandits and criminals, and their attitude to the current government in no way makes them political criminals!

            their crimes are political killings of genocide and aiding the enemy during the war. this is no longer criminality. fighting against partisans and punitive pogroms in villages all the more.
            1. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 16: 13 New
              -2
              Quote: kashtak
              their crimes are political killings of genocide and aiding the enemy during the war. this is no longer criminality

              These are all criminal crimes, because any murder is criminality, and murders for the sake of not legitimate authorities as well.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 15 September 2015 19: 15 New
                +1
                Quote: Down House
                because any murder is criminality, and murder for the sake of an illegitimate government, including

                Can you tell me the source of this wise thought?
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 14: 37 New
            -1
            Quote: Down House
            authorities in no way makes them political criminals!

            Lieutenant General Vlasov
            Major General Trukhin
            Major General Malyshkin
            Major General Zakutny
            Major General Blagoveshchensky
            Brigadier Commissar Zhilenkov
            Colonel Bayersky
            Colonel Neryanin
            Criminals? Or political? How to count them?
            1. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 17: 34 New
              +4
              Quote: turk
              How to count them?

              First of all, traitors and cowards!
            2. Weyland
              Weyland 15 September 2015 19: 50 New
              -1
              Quote: turk
              Criminals? Or political? How to count them?


              And those and others:
              Since article 58-1a of “Treason against the Motherland” was contained in Criminal codex - criminals; since this crime is certainly political - political. wink
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 15 September 2015 15: 41 New
          -1
          In the USSR in 1941. there were many dissatisfied with the policies of the Soviet government, many offended by this very authority. The fishists naturally took advantage of this discontent. But the majority nevertheless understood that at that moment it was not the fate of Stalin that was being decided, but the fate of the country. And many at that moment forgot about personal insults to power and went to the front to defend themselves, their children and their homeland.
          1. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 17: 58 New
            -6
            Quote: Nikolai K
            but the majority nevertheless understood that at that moment it was not the fate of Stalin that was being decided, but the fate of the country.

            No need to fantasize.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. Down House
          Down House 15 September 2015 13: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: turk
          families of which are subject to arrest as families of those who violated the oath and deserters who betrayed their homeland.

          Is the definition of “arrest” familiar to you?

          Quote: turk
          The units and subdivisions that were surrounded by the enemy selflessly fight to the last possible opportunity, take care of the material part, like the apple of an eye, make their way to their rear of the enemy troops, defeating the Nazi dogs.

          And right, or would you rather raise your paws without a fight ?!
          1. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 13: 50 New
            -3
            Quote: Down House
            Is the definition of “arrest” familiar to you?

            Of course. This is when invited to visit. Water-fed. Something like a name day. Did not guess?
            Quote: Down House
            or would you rather raise your paws without a fight ?!

            It doesn't matter what I prefer. It is important that in the most outrageous way, the Bolsheviks repressed the families of "wrong" military personnel. True, the father of the “wrong” Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think so? Why did the NKVD violate this stern order? After all, they could be punished for it!
            1. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 16: 16 New
              0
              Quote: turk
              True, the father of the “wrong” Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think so?

              And why didn’t they repress the father of the “wrong” Khrushchev, like so many others of which “wrong” fathers?
            2. MrK
              MrK 15 September 2015 21: 33 New
              0
              Quote: turk
              True, the father of the “wrong” Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think so? Why did the NKVD violate this stern order? After all, they could be punished for it!

              Because they arrested Jacob's wife. But after it turned out that the Germans had organized a provocation against Jacob, Jacob's wife was released. But she spent a year in the camps.
              1. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 21: 43 New
                -3
                Quote: mrark
                Because they arrested Jacob's wife.

                Those. Father was not a defendant for Jacob? How so? Did they even know each other? Jacob with Stalin? Probably not. Therefore, the Stalin NKVD and not raked. Lucky for him.
                1. MrK
                  MrK 16 September 2015 01: 03 New
                  0
                  The order says family. And Jacob had his own family.
                2. turk
                  turk 16 September 2015 20: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: mrark
                  And Jacob had his own family

                  Examine this issue from a legal point of view.
            3. The comment was deleted.
      4. alicante11
        alicante11 15 September 2015 14: 07 New
        +2
        1. Commanders and political workers who, during a battle, tear off insignia and deserting to the rear or surrender to the enemy, be considered malicious deserters, whose families are to be arrested as oaths and those who have betrayed their homeland deserters.


        And you don’t particularly strain, it’s just plagiarism, and partial. It was in these expressions that orders were drawn up on the Russian-German front in the 1915 year of the Great Retreat. Only there they demanded that they simply shoot from the machine guns all those who surrendered, and not just the "command personnel".
      5. Uncle Joe
        Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 14: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: turk
        After all, the Red Army soldiers were even forbidden to surrender. And the families of those who disobeyed were subject to repression (in fact, the man was joining the army, and his family was taken hostage). If a man behaved "wrong", this was reflected in his family and friends.
        1. Commanders and political workers, during battle tearing off insignia and deserting to the rear or surrendering to the enemy, consider malicious deserters whose families are to be arrested as families who have violated the oath and who have deserted their homeland (families of commanders and political workers may be involved in secret information owned by the father of the family? can the father of the family plan his desertion during battle in advance? Does the personality shape the surrounding social environment, and if so, what kind of environment is there in the deserter's family?)

        2. Units and units that are surrounded by the enemy fight selflessly to the last opportunity (that is, until the moment when the resistance ceases to be expedient - surrender after this moment is natural)

        ... and deprive the families of the surrendered Red Army state allowance and help (remember the social environment in the family and add motivation)

        3. To oblige commanders and commissars of divisions to immediately dismiss battalion and regiment commanders, hiding in crevices during battle and those who are afraid to lead the battle on the battlefield, demote them as impostors, transfer to rank and file and, if necessary, shoot them on the spot, putting forward brave and courageous people from the younger command staff or from the ranks of distinguished Red Army men.

        And what is surprising in such an order during the period of total war?

        For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.
        2. Units and units that are surrounded by the enemy fight selflessly to the last opportunity (that is, until the moment when the resistance ceases to be expedient - surrender after this moment is natural) smile
        1. turk
          turk 15 September 2015 15: 10 New
          -2
          I understood you. Before the battle and after it, it was possible to surrender. It was impossible only during the battle. All clear.
          If you notice me, I am outraged by the mention in the order of relatives. What is this if not a hostage system?
          1. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 15: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: turk
            I understood you. Before the battle and after it, it was possible to surrender. It was impossible only during the battle
            laughing

            You better decipher - what exactly were you trying to say with your table about the number and structure of arrests and courts?
            1. turk
              turk 15 September 2015 15: 35 New
              -4
              Quote: Uncle Joe
              what exactly were you trying to say with your table about the number and structure of arrests and courts

              For starters, this is not my table, this is the table of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. At least on the Internet, all links go to it. And you don’t need to speak for her. Everything speaks for itself there.
              1. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 16: 02 New
                +2
                Quote: turk
                For starters, this is not my table, this is the table of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                Yours - You posted.

                At least on the Internet, all links go to it.
                Not all.

                In your table from the age of 24, you have "statistics" on the number of convicts, in which, in addition to the collegium of the OGPU and the Special Meeting, there are three that appeared only in the year 37 ...

                But this, in general, is not important, since even if you take the table at face value, it will only say that there was crime in the USSR, that its level was lower than in Russia, and that it was successfully fought with.

                But the fact that you are trying to say this table trying to say she will not say.


              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 16: 53 New
                -3
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                that there was crime in the USSR, that its level was lower than in the Russian Federation, and that it was successfully fought with.

                You la la do not tell. The final numbers are the same. But there is no “reason” in your tables. And in those that I laid out, they are. And "Counter-revolutionary activity." And "Anti-Soviet agitation." And Art. 58. So do not lie. This is all repression. And do not forget about the CSIR (family members of traitors to the motherland). They went to other articles.
                In the same 1938. from 638509 people 535960 people arrested were arrested for counter-revolution + 57366 more people. for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter). Total 93% (!!!) of counter-revolutionaries and anti-advisers. And only 7% of "criminals". And how many of these "criminals" were CHIR?
                And in the same year 328618 people. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). was shot. Only shot. And how many died later in the camps?
                In Leningrad, for nearly 2,4 years, 632000 people died. (Nuremberg trial). And everyone remembers. Because a tragedy. And the Bolsheviks for 2 years (1937-38gg) only shot 681692 people. And many pretend that this is normal. Don't give a damn. And some villains even thoughtfully notice something like "they need it." These are some sick individuals.
                So do not blame everything on crime. And try to somehow at least seem like a decent person. At least pretend that you look like him. You should be ashamed, honestly.
                However, the majority of people like you on this site, as I can see. Right hotbed of evil spirits.
              5. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 20: 09 New
                +1
                Quote: turk
                You la la don't tell
                I’m not telling you a la la, but I asked a specific question, from the answer to which for some reason you are trying to escape.

                But there are no “bases” in your tables
                Firstly, it’s a lie - “counterrevolutionary and other especially dangerous crimes” appear in the tables, and secondly it doesn’t apply to the case - at least until the moment you deign to clarify your message that you tried to make with the help of your table.

                This is all repression.
                Of course.
                Repression - (from late Lat. Repressio - suppression) - a punitive measure, the punishment applied by state bodies.
                And what? request

                And do not forget about the CSIR (family members of traitors to the motherland). They went to other articles
                By what? In what norm and in what wording is this fixed? And what does that change?

                another 57366 people for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter)
                Agitation - (from lat. Agitatio - setting in motion - inducing anything else), the dissemination of ideas for influencing the consciousness, mood, social activity of the masses through oral presentations, mass media.

                Article 58-10. Propaganda or agitation containing a call for the overthrow, undermining, weakening of Soviet power or for the commission of certain counter-revolutionary crimes, as well as the distribution, production or storage of literature of the same content.

                Sweet talk like that ...

                And how many of these "criminals" were CHIR?
                So how much, and what measures have been applied to them?

                And how many died later in the camps?
                Mortality in the camps exceeded the total mortality rate in the country by 0.2 ppm.

                And the Bolsheviks for 2 years (1937-38gg) only shot 681692 people.
                For 32 years, by court decision, in accordance with the law, 0.8 million convicts were sentenced to death - and why? (I just can't figure it out)

                And many pretend it's normal
                But is it not normal for a criminal to be punished in accordance with the law?

                So do not blame everything on crime
                What is this? laughing


                I'm still waiting for an answer to the question - what exactly were you trying to say with your table, falsified in at least one part.
              6. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 20: 38 New
                -3
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                I'm not telling you la la

                You tell me. And distort the numbers. You are a sharpie, my dear.
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                By what? In what norm and in what wording is this fixed?

                Read my comments. I already wrote about this on this thread.
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                Sweet talk like that ...

                Yes, sweet talk. Everyone has the right to their own opinion.
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                Mortality in camps exceeded total mortality

                It's strange to hear that from you. I expected information from you that no one was dying there at all. Who will die in paradise?
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                and what?

                And nothing. Why not bother? "Bases" give to sleep at night?
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                by decision of the courts

                What?
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                But is it not normal for a criminal to be punished in accordance with the law?

                It all depends on what is meant by the word "law." Here, Jews, according to German laws of those years, were also legally exiled to concentration camps. Will you say that everything was fine there? Not worth it. Because everything was far from normal there. And the whole world recognizes this. It is very bad that the whole world does not recognize the same with respect to the "Soviet laws" of about the same years. But here is still to come.
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                what exactly are you with your table, rigged in at least one part

                You in vain attribute the table to me. And I do not need to ask questions on this topic. Contact the authors of the table. They will answer your complaints. You will be much more authoritative.
              7. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 03: 22 New
                +1
                Quote: turk
                You are a sharpie
                Verbatim (like everything else)

                I already wrote about this on this thread
                False

                Everyone has the right to their own opinion.
                That's right. But opinion and agitation is warm and soft.
                You cannot not know this, which means you are deliberately substituting concepts.

                Who will die in paradise?
                That's what happens when there is nothing to say in a case laughing

                Why not bother?
                No, this is written in the Criminal Code.
                Well - and why?

                What?
                BY THE DECISION OF COURTS - is it better to see?

                It all depends on what is meant by the word "law"
                A normative act adopted by the supreme body of state power in the manner prescribed by the constitution. It has the highest legal force in relation to other normative acts (decrees, resolutions, etc.). The main source of law in modern society.

                Will you say that everything was fine there? Not worth it. Because everything was far from normal there
                Really not worth it, since the laws of fascist Germany (as well as the Russian Empire) had nothing to do with law.

                Contact the authors of the table
                I ask you, and I ask you what exactly you wanted to say with these numbers - where do the authors come from? smile
              8. turk
                turk 16 September 2015 20: 14 New
                -1
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                A normative act adopted by the supreme body of state power in the manner prescribed by the constitution.

                Remind me. how was this "state power" established?
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                Really not worth it, since the laws of fascist Germany (as well as the Russian Empire) had nothing to do with law.

                And the Bolshevik Sovdepii, had?
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                what exactly did you want to say with these numbers

                Stuck? How many times do you need to answer to stop the brake?
              9. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 20: 42 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                Remind me. how was this "state power" established?
                Be kind.

                And the Bolshevik Sovdepii, had?
                Ага.

                Stuck? How many times do you need to answer to stop the brake?
                Drain counted smile
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • turk
    turk 15 September 2015 13: 40 New
    -6
    Quote: Down House
    there were those who, on pain of death, agreed to serve

    Who you talking about? About those who obeyed Order No. 270 of August 16, 1941? Or about others? After all, the Red Army soldiers were even forbidden to surrender. And the families of those who disobeyed were subject to repression (in fact, the man was joining the army, and his family was taken hostage). If a man behaved "wrong", this was reflected in his family and friends. Here, read:
    ..............................
    I order:

    1. For commanders and political workers who, during the battle, tear off the insignia and deserting to the rear or surrendering to the enemy, shall be considered malicious deserters, whose families are subject to arrest as families who violated the oath and betrayed their homeland deserters.

    Mandate all higher commanders and commissars shoot on the spot * similar deserters from the command staff.
    * Without trial.

    2. The units and subunits that were encircled by the enemy selflessly fight to the last opportunity, to protect the material part, as the eyeball of the eye, to break through to their backs of the enemy troops, defeating the fascist dogs.

    To oblige each soldier, regardless of his official position, to demand from a superior chief, if part of him is surrounded, to fight to the last opportunity in order to break through to his own, and if such a commander or part of the Red Army instead of repelling the enemy would prefer to surrender, destroy them by all means, both ground and air **, Families of surrendered Red Army men deprive of state allowance and assistance ***.
    ** If by air, so is it a lie after the trial. Most likely without any trial or investigation.
    *** even for the wages of a worker during the war, little could be bought. Therefore, basically there was a distribution supply system. Depriving the delivery of foodstuff products meant, at a minimum, malnutrition in the family of the “traitor”.

    3. To oblige commanders and commissars of divisions to immediately remove from their posts commanders of battalions and regiments hiding in crevices during the battle and afraid to direct the course of the battle on the battlefield, demote them as imposters, transfer to rank and file, and if necessary shoot them in place ****, putting forward in their place the brave and courageous people from the junior command staff or from the ranks of distinguished Red Army men.
    **** And again, without trial.

    The order to read in all companies, squadrons, batteries, squadrons, teams and headquarters.

    The rate of the Supreme Main Command of the Red Army:

    J. Stalin

    Deputy Chairman of the State Defense Committee

    V.Molotov

    Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Budyonny

    Marshal of the Soviet Union K. Voroshilov

    Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Timoshenko
    ...............................................

    For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.
    Law in the USSR was not for everyone.
    1. MrK
      MrK 15 September 2015 21: 43 New
      0
      Quote: turk
      For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.
      Law in the USSR was not for everyone.

      Read above, you are our mourning.
      1. turk
        turk 15 September 2015 21: 57 New
        -1
        Quote: mrark
        mourning you are ours.

        Am I mourning? And what should I read?
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 September 2015 10: 26 New
    +3
    I think that you understand that there are teachers, but there are teachers "sovereigns of souls" who are able to give any material in the way ... they need. And it’s ridiculous to compete with them to a man who teaches his children according to grandmother’s memoirs. Isn’t it? And about the defectors to Hitler in my book there is “We will die near Moscow or a swastika over the Kremlin” - gathered there everything that was possible from all available sources. But ... again, as such a teacher says to students, they will imprint in their brains like that. Because masterfully done, beautiful, for them! But, it is clear that there are few of these ... For good or for ill ...
    1. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 10: 50 New
      +2
      And competing with them to a person who teaches his children grandmother’s memoirs is ridiculous. Isn’t that so? And about the defectors to Hitler, in my book there is “Let’s die near Moscow or the swastika over the Kremlin” - I collected everything there that could be from all available sources.


      Yes, it’s better to teach a child on the stories of eyewitnesses of that era, than based on alternative, fantastic inventions. :-))
      But to each his own. One is a hotter story, the other is obvious. )))
      1. Fight cat
        Fight cat 15 September 2015 11: 48 New
        -4
        an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain for 10 years in the camps, a bag that a young boy had picked up for 15 years in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick, and grandfather in 1945, 10 camps soldered to him for 15 years. it’s such a good thing the USSR was, and about repression it’s the tales of Svanidze and the rest ... only it doesn’t fit with reality.
        1. Glot
          Glot 15 September 2015 12: 10 New
          +7
          an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain for 10 years in the camps, a bag that a young boy had picked up for 15 years in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick, and grandfather in 1945, 10 camps soldered to him for 15 years. it’s such a good thing the USSR was, and about repression it’s the tales of Svanidze and the rest ... only it doesn’t fit with reality.


          At night, in the field, I found a bag of grain. He brought it home.
          1945 ...
          I think that the investigator did not have big questions at that time.
          I had one acquaintance, so he loved to yell how much he hates the communist regime, the USSR, and that he raised his children in this hatred, and how glad he was when the Union collapsed.
          Why is that ?
          It turned out that his grandfather was a white officer in the Civil, and actively fought against the Reds.
          Accordingly, when the Reds killed them all, he was tried and imprisoned for a long time. Only him, the grandmother was not touched and the whole family.
          His grandfather hated the Communists fiercely for this, and raised his children in this hatred.
          I told him, well, they say you wanted if your grandfather went against them with weapons? He would sit at home and nothing would happen. Or did he think that the authorities would feed him with gingerbread when he caught it?
          Oh how he sprayed saliva ...)))
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 11 New
            0
            And which of the two of you ended up right? He or you? Who won in the end?
            1. Glot
              Glot 15 September 2015 15: 21 New
              0
              And which of the two of you ended up right? He or you? Who won in the end?


              Everyone stayed with their own.
              I, with my rightness, in whom I believe. He is with his.
              Well, didn’t shoot him? And time is not right ...)))
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 58 New
                +1
                No Glot, you did not win - and Nicholas K tells you that! Whose flag flies over the Kremlin? Denikin's armored train was called "United Russia", but now what's this? And the coat of arms ... Whose characters? What kind of economy? So believe in your rightness and further, under the trade flag of the Russian Empire (and General Vlasov, by the way!). And since the time is different now and you will not shoot it, then ... people will release couples here and everything will remain as it is and will be as they decide ... not here. Did you think otherwise?
              2. Glot
                Glot 15 September 2015 19: 16 New
                0
                No Glot, you did not win - and Nicholas K tells you that! Whose flag flies over the Kremlin? Denikin's armored train was called "United Russia", but now what's this? And the coat of arms ... Whose characters? What kind of economy? So believe in your rightness and further, under the trade flag of the Russian Empire (and General Vlasov, by the way!). And since the time is different now and you will not shoot it, then ... people will release couples here and everything will remain as it is and will be as they decide ... not here. Did you think otherwise?


                Caliber, why not?
                Defeated the red whites. Then. Or is there an alternative version? )))
                What is the tricolor at the Kremlin now and what? Yes, for me personally, nothing, not at all. Tricolor ... Yes, and God be with him.
                I lived, worked under the USSR and, well, I can’t say anything bad at that time. I can not.
                Now I live and work in the Russian Federation. There is a separate topic, not to this topic. )))
                What remains of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR on the day of the Russian Federation? From the Empire there was just a piece left, after the Civil called - the RSFSR.
                Tricolor blows on the Kremlin. Yes. But how much is lost, fucked up, handed out, drunk, ruined and destroyed ??? !!!
                So think who won, and is there a Russian legal successor to RI.
                Well, this is about the Denikin armored train and other things.
                Yes, Vlasov ...
                In my opinion a banal traitor and cattle. That's all.
                And most importantly, probably at the end of the conversation.
                I do not hail the past of my Country. Of his earth. Whatever it is. I do not gnaw people of past eras, nor their deeds and accomplishments.
                I accept what was, and I love Russia, even under the red flag, even under the tricolor.
                Actually with this topic is all. )))
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 15 September 2015 15: 51 New
            +4
            The states won in any way. They rubbed their hands while some Russians killed others first in civilian clothes, then in 30, then they beat each other's faces in 90.
          4. The comment was deleted.
        2. MrK
          MrK 15 September 2015 21: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Glot
          an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain of 10 years of camps, a bag which a young boy of 15 years picked up in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick

          When these liberal nonsense will end.
          about the innocent victims.
          Ask today in any prison for especially dangerous criminals - are they guilty no? 99% of killers and flayers will say that they are as innocent as babies.

          And with regards to the spikelets. For the sake of justice, let’s say that in the law “On Three (Five) Spikelets” there was no discussion of spikelets at all. And it was a question of mass thefts in transport and on collective farms. And these spikelets were taken away at a time, sometimes up to twenty carts.
          The fact that excesses have occurred on the ground, and often with the help of this and other laws have reduced the scores with objectionable ones - a characteristic feature of Russia. No matter how good the laws would be, they will be applied for personal selfish purposes, which can be seen quite often even today.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Uncle Joe
        Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 13: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Fighting Cat
        my grandfather sat down for a bag of grain 10 years of camps
        grandfather in 1945 10 camps soldered to him 15 years was
        What article? lol
      4. Comrade Bender
        Comrade Bender 15 September 2015 13: 42 New
        +3
        The mother of my ex-mother-in-law was also sent to Kazakhstan, to a settlement. It turned out for repeated embezzlement in the store. Also a victim of repression?
      5. alicante11
        alicante11 15 September 2015 14: 09 New
        +1
        an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain of 10 years of camps, a bag which a young boy of 15 years picked up in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick


        So now he will sit down, and in the 90's they sat down, damn it, everyone represses, even Chubais and Gaidarites, not to mention a big EBN and bloody GDP.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 09 New
      +3
      Do you know the saying - “lying, as an eyewitness”? I once repeated a long-time experience in my faculty: I ordered a student to run into a lecture with a banana, shoot from it, then do something else there ... And the students who saw it all - describe it! This technique, by the way, is described in the textbook on forensics. So what? Two identical descriptions were not! One saw one another the other. In a word: "here and believe after this to people, I gave myself under the moon, and he took my maiden breasts and tied him in a knot on my back!"
  • Fight cat
    Fight cat 15 September 2015 11: 43 New
    -3
    Mark Aronovich Pius, a very talented mathematician, graduated from Moscow University in 3 years (mechmath) in 1934. For some time he worked at TsAGI, collaborated with Petlyakov and Tupolev, and proposed to carry out mathematical modeling of the process of accumulation and distribution of deformations in structures with pronounced isotropy.
    After 15 years, this work will be performed in the USA and will learn how to make durable and lightweight caisson structures for the B-47 and B-52.
    On December 5, 1937, he was arrested on charges of participating in a Trotskyite conspiracy.
    On December 10, 1937, during interrogation, the investigator knocked out both his eyes.
    M.A. Pius refused to sign the accusations of people he knew and did not recognize his own.
    December 12, 1937 sentenced to death.
    The sentence was executed on the same day.
    where did they come from then literate managers were destroyed there with all the proletarian hatred! no
    1. Down House
      Down House 15 September 2015 12: 46 New
      +4
      Quote: Fighting Cat
      where did they come from then literate managers were destroyed there with all the proletarian hatred!

      What is it like, he was apparently trained from the same "proletarian hatred" at a Soviet university and made literate in it ?!
      Indeed, where did literate people come from after that in the USSR, some illiterate proletarians invented a nuclear reactor and a nuclear bomb!
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 13 New
        0
        Spouses Rosenberg and Kimi Philby also do not forget, eh? Not only the proletarians tried there!
      2. turk
        turk 15 September 2015 15: 46 New
        -7
        Quote: Down House
        trained for free at a Soviet university and made literate in it?

        Free in the USSR, the state did nothing to anyone. And it didn’t. Anyway, it plundered people like sticky. After the death of the scoop, the heirs shared a worn carpet and a pair of crystal vases. All. The scoop had nothing more of its own. Even the apartments were rented. State. Miserable clunkers were the ultimate dream.
        1. Down House
          Down House 15 September 2015 16: 21 New
          0
          Quote: turk
          Even the apartments were rented. State.

          Now also mostly rented. At the bank, but not for free.
          Quote: turk
          Miserable clunkers were the ultimate dream.

          Absolutely normal cars were at that time.
          Quote: turk
          Free in the USSR, the state did nothing to anyone.

          What are you, and when you don’t pay for medicine, don’t you pay for this? It’s also “not free” ?!
          1. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 17: 07 New
            -4
            Quote: Down House
            Now also mostly rented.

            Will lie.
            Quote: Down House
            but not for free anymore.

            And what, were Koga something free? For these “free apartments”, as well as for “free textbooks,” the state tore off three skins a day on salary. From this "free" salary and became 150 rubles. per month.
            Quote: Down House
            Absolutely normal cars were at that time.

            Well yes. It was after the collapse of the USSR that foreign scrap was dragged into it. Which was no cheaper than the new Lada. Only Lada no one bought.
            Quote: Down House
            and when you don’t pay for training, don’t you pay for medicine?!

            And who told you that you did not pay for it? They paid. At three prices. And you paid for "helping friends." And you paid for the "peaceful cosmos". You paid for everything "free". Only nifiga for this is not received.
            1. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 17: 15 New
              0
              Quote: turk
              Will lie.

              I’m not lying, the mortgage is called. Without it, in the capitalist world, few can afford a new apartment for cash.
              Quote: turk
              It was after the collapse of the USSR that foreign scrap was dragged into it.

              The bandits dragged foreign premium brand scrap metal, which the new one cost as much as 100500 Lada. This does not negate the fact that before the Lada was still better than the same Skoda or Opel.
              Quote: turk
              Only nifiga for this is not received.

              The second time I repeat that they also received free education-training-apartment. Still not clear?
              1. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 17: 26 New
                -6
                Quote: Down House
                the mortgage is called. Without it, in the capitalist world, afford a new apartment for

                Do not take. Mortgage. And I will tell you a secret. Real estate is generally a luxury. In Europe, not many can afford to own real estate. And if they can afford it, then not where they want to live. This is normal. And in Russia it will be so.
                The apartment can be rented. How did you rent it from the communists.
                Quote: Down House
                This does not negate the fact that before the Lada was still better than the same Skoda or Opel.

                Why write garbage? There has never been such a thing.
                Quote: Down House
                The second time I repeat that they also received free education-training-apartment

                You at least have a hole in the wall with your beak. But there will be no sense. Until you understand that nothing in the world is free anywhere. And there wasn’t. You always have to pay for everything. At the same time, some suckers managed to pay not only for themselves, but also for a bunch of foreign "friends" - the townspeople. Often they are also called scoops.
                But this is not true. These are not scoops. Scoops, these are those who want everything to be as before. To again proudly sit bare back on a trampled synthetic carpet and wipe with a cloth the "only asset" in the form of a Czech glass vase. Dreaming of buying a Dnepr motorcycle. In 10-15 years.
              2. Down House
                Down House 15 September 2015 17: 43 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                Real estate is generally a luxury.

                Quote: turk
                The apartment can be rented. How did you rent it from the communists.

                Real estate is a necessity.
                And nobody rented it in the USSR, the lease / rent agreement provides for payment under the agreement, in the USSR there was NO payment, it was a gratuitous transfer of the premises subject to its intended use!
                Quote: turk
                Have you ever hole in the wall with your beak

                Started to be rude? The drain has been read, you have no concrete argument and cannot be!
              3. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 17: 55 New
                0
                Quote: Down House
                Real estate is a necessity.

                Not all real estate. Housing - yes, a matter of vital necessity. And better, this is a private house than an apartment in a high-rise building.
              4. Down House
                Down House 15 September 2015 18: 24 New
                0
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                And better, this is a private house than an apartment in a high-rise building.

                And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.
              5. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 18: 29 New
                -3
                Quote: Down House
                By the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

                Lies. Cottages were given only to party and official bonzes. But the population was not given anything. Only under Gorbachev, when it became very hungry, they began to give a piece of land 20x30m FOR RENT. So that a slave picks himself there and does not die of hunger.
              6. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 20: 05 New
                0
                Nobody gave any lease, they gave ownership of summer cottages in garden cooperatives.
              7. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 20: 18 New
                -1
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                gave ownership of cottages in garden cooperatives.

                You would at least mean the word "Soviet cooperative", perhaps. There was no property there in full. A bunch of restrictions. One semblance of property.
              8. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 20: 42 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                One semblance of property.

                “Yes, man is mortal, but that would be half the trouble.” The bad news is that he is sometimes suddenly mortal, that’s the trick! And he can’t say at all what he will do tonight. ” Woland.

                And you say property. wink
                You have to be kinder. Although what to take from you. you hate your country.
              9. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 20: 46 New
                -2
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                you hate your country.

                Your bloodthirsty idol with your gang of ghouls is not equivalent to my country. The scale is different. And the caliber. But he still managed to drink blood. Very decent. For a long time such a bloodsucker will not be forgotten.
              10. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 20: 59 New
                -1
                I hate you, liberals. (C) Maxim Shevchenko.

        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 19: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Down House
      And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

      Today you can rent for 49 years. Then take ownership. People take it. In general, I think that it is necessary to bring down from the city, as from a place hostile to all living things.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 20: 23 New
      -1
      Land for cottages. And they could build ... not everyone! Tile, toilet, impose, and that was in short supply.
    4. turk
      turk 15 September 2015 20: 47 New
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      Land for summer cottages

      Land under the garden. The house itself could be very small. I don’t remember now, but there were serious limitations in all dimensions.
  • VseDoFeNi
    VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 05: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Down House
    And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

    Well, I wouldn’t say so clearly ...
    When you order a third plastic window you get the third one for free, do you believe that? Or have you already paid for it?

    And then. In the USSR, the country's industrialization was carried out, hundreds of cities were built. It was impossible to do without urbanization. Cities have absorbed villages. Each city house, this is a village, large or small, where the role of houses is played by apartments, and earlier konushki in barracks played.

    A couple of consequences follow from this - villages were destroyed during industrialization and continue to be destroyed until now. Irrevocably losing the way created by centuries and millennia. This is a problem not only of our country, but of all the so-called developed countries.

    That is, at first people were deprived of their homes, driven into huts, then they began to “give out apartments for free”. And before that, people had houses, gardens, households.

    In addition, today we were held hostage by the housing and communal services, created, it would seem, as a blessing. But no, the resources are seized, "land and other natural resources may be in private, state, municipal and other forms of ownership." (Constitution of the Russian Federation. Art. 9)
  • turk
    turk 15 September 2015 18: 08 New
    -3
    Quote: Down House
    Real estate is a necessity.

    So what? Rent this item and use. What is in the way? The whole world is mainly rented, but it cannot ... Only if the Communists.
    Quote: Down House
    there was NO payment in the USSR, it was a gratuitous transfer of housing on condition of its intended use!

    "Uncle, you"? How many times can you explain that free cheese happens only in a mousetrap?
    Quote: Down House
    The drain has been read, you have no concrete argument and cannot be

    Buy the cheapest textbook on political economy. And study. You will understand then what is paid and what is free.
  • Down House
    Down House 15 September 2015 18: 33 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    Rent this item and use. What is in the way?

    The pointlessness of this, I am already provided with real estate more than, but the conversation was not originally about me.
    Quote: turk
    The whole world basically rents

    And in there was a free transfer of housing! Therefore, I recommend buying a textbook and reading how renting a living room differs from donation without the right to sell!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • turk
    turk 15 September 2015 18: 44 New
    -1
    Quote: Down House
    but the conversation was not originally about me.

    Think of yourself. And write on your own behalf. Do not "suffer for others."
    Probably the "new bad power" and threw another apartment? Is free. Privatization. And did the "bad" give the countryman? Unlike the “good communists”.
    Quote: Down House
    there was a free transfer of housing!

    Damn, how much do you need to repeat that free (free) in life does not happen? Do you know how you are different from Uncle Fedor from Prostokvashino? By the fact that he (the little boy) understood that "in order to sell something unnecessary, you must first buy something unnecessary." Buy, understand? And for free nothing will fall on your head. The state apartment itself will not be built. For its construction, it will be necessary to take something from someone. Guess who was taken from?
    Quote: Down House
    different from donation without right of sale

    Will you invent "news" for a long time?
  • MrK
    MrK 15 September 2015 22: 10 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    Guess who was taken from?

    Always taken away from those who produce something.
    The only difference is that you are a turk, taking workers from your pocket. And then - curly-haired with prostitutes, the French Riviera. Personal Boeing, yachts the size of a destroyer, etc.
    And in the USSR, money taken away as part of the profit was spent on free treatment, rest in sanatoriums, almost free housing, free quality education for all.
    I twice, after the 6 and 7 classes, rested in a pioneer camp. Pine forest on the river. Campaigns, bonfires, dances to the orchestra, until you drop.
    That's the only difference.
  • turk
    turk 15 September 2015 22: 23 New
    -3
    Quote: mrark
    The only difference is that you are a turk, taking workers from your pocket.

    You, my dear, have confused me with a pickpocket. No, I understand that this is a “society" for you. But I'm not from him.
    Quote: mrark
    And in the USSR money taken away as part of the profit was spent on free treatment, rest in sanatoriums, almost free housing, Free quality education for everyone.

    And also for the livelihood and armament of gangs of holodotrans around the world, an endless series of stupid re-equipment, the production of nowhere worthless scrap metal in incredible quantities, etc., etc. I also forgot about space flights with friends-Holodrans. But there were no sausages in stores. And a special piece of paper for asses, too.
    Quote: mrark
    I twice, after the 6 and 7 classes, rested in a pioneer camp. Pine forest on the river. Campaigns, bonfires, dances to the orchestra, until you drop.

    Clear. The fact that the pioneer camps are tracing paper from scout camps, you, in your darkness, do not know.
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  • Fight cat
    Fight cat 23 September 2015 13: 45 New
    0
    these are the very illiterate proletarians wassat Is it true that they studied at imperial educational institutions ?! How powerfully it is wrapped !!! Soviet universities and the fact that there Jews got 20% of the places! and a little that the teacher was kicked for anti-Zionism if he bothered to pincer the personal belongings of some of the leaders with the pace. Behind
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 September 2015 18: 06 New
    0
    In the Penza region in 1937, the fact of sabotage was revealed - “they destroyed aphids on 5 hectares of peas” (Stalin banner). I am not an agronomist ... who knows that what is really wrecking, to destroy aphids on peas?
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 05: 35 New
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      "killed aphids on 5 hectares of peas"

      Maybe so - "ruined aphids on 5 hectares of peas. "The meaning is reversed.
  • Fight cat
    Fight cat 23 September 2015 14: 37 New
    0
    so shot literate then !! they shot because of simply hostility or the fact that they are of noble, bourgeois, or God forbid priestly origin!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Starik72
    Starik72 15 September 2015 16: 13 New
    -1
    Vyacheslav. I will answer you like that. The dead can be found guilty and watered, THEY will not answer! But the powers that be cannot be, for this you can get the teeth, and even lose your life! So draw conclusions. And for the fact that YOU do not believe our grandfathers and grandmothers, I set you minus.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 50 New
      0
      I believe grandfathers and grandmothers, but I prefer everything that they say to check in the archives. And you know, something converges on 100%, but something ... does not converge at all! And somehow I will survive your minus ...
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 15 September 2015 08: 32 New
    +2
    Letter from M. Sholokhov to I. Stalin on grain procurement.
    http://sholohov.sch1262.ru/tegami.html
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 15 September 2015 09: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: Glot
    No, in Moscow, too, it seemed like there was nothing to hear about.

    Why be surprised. Did you hear a lot about terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro in the year 75? I haven’t.
    1. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 09: 24 New
      -2
      Why be surprised. Did you hear a lot about terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro in the year 75? I haven’t.


      This, different things all the same. Incomparable.
      So the example is not good.
  • LM66
    LM66 16 September 2015 00: 54 New
    0
    The man who calls his dead ancestors "grandmother" is simply an unwise person
  • Mera joota
    Mera joota 15 September 2015 07: 08 New
    -5
    Quote: S_Baykala
    He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

    So this does not mean that they were not. I have enough of them in my relatives, though they are not scientists or officials, but ordinary peasants and one teacher. There is also a friend who, as a young pusher-motorist, participated in the destruction of the Kolpashevsky Yar and heard from him stories of how thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yar washed out by screws of pushers ...
    Well, yesterday, the Star (it seems) was a program about the founder of judo in the USSR Oshchepkova Vasily Sergeevich, who in 1937. was arrested (not hard to guess) as a Japanese spy and died in Butyrka prison after his arrest. The circumstances of the death are unknown, but it is clear that the judoka athlete could die only as a result of torture during interrogation ...
    If this is not enough for you, you can recall S.P. Korolev, whose interrogator, during interrogation, kicked his head and broke his jaw.
    And the execution of members of the government of Mongolia on Kommunarka? So then Mongolia an independent state was ...
    These are drops in the sea ...
    1. Barboskin
      Barboskin 15 September 2015 07: 16 New
      +10
      There were plenty of real enemies too, according to my grandmother's stories in Siberia, in 38 in the village a collective farm activist, a member of the party, was killed. Two killers were found and imprisoned, but as they said in the village, not all were taken to clean water. There were more participants.
    2. the polar
      the polar 15 September 2015 07: 54 New
      +10
      Quote: Mera Joota
      Quote: S_Baykala
      He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

      So this does not mean that they were not. I have enough of them in my relatives, though they are not scientists or officials, but ordinary peasants and one teacher. There is still an acquaintance who, as a young steering-minder on a pusher, participated in the destruction of Kolpashevsky Yar

      And nobody told you that there was a Kolchakovo concentration camp in Kolpashevo? And the Kolchakites, having packed three barges with peasants, activists, captive Red Army men, boarded up the holds and in the fall lowered these barges with self-rafting along the Ob. These barges, of course, then sank with people.
      After the defeat of the Kolchak gangs, this crime was recorded by the Soviet authorities and is in the archives, but none of the liberalists talks about this, spreading snot on their faces.
      1. Tomich2
        Tomich2 15 September 2015 10: 01 New
        +1
        In Western Siberia, the Narymsky district became the main region of exile. Narymsky district was created in 1932 and was equal in territory to the territory of Belarus and Lithuania combined. Nowhere and never during the period of Soviet power did they write that in the 30-40s of the 20th century, up to half a million people were sent here for special settlement, according to some reports.
        The resettlement of "dispossessed" peasants in the uninhabited places of Siberia was the pride of the Soviet leadership. For example, the head of the Siblag reported that between May 1931 and June 1932, 43852 families (about 120 thousand people) were brought to the Narym Territory. "Thus, over the course of 65-70 days, the Narymsky Territory, colonized by the tsarist government for 350 years and having received about 40000 people of the displaced population during this period, doubled the number of inhabitants." Indeed, the tsarist government was far from the Stalinist regime in conducting forced displacement.
        Immediately, upon arrival at the place of settlement, special migrants received the task of uprooting under arable land, they were given a plan for sowing and ... handing over grain to the state. So, in 1931 in the Narymsk Territory, 6 thousand hectares were uprooted. In 1932, it was proposed to uproot 55,4 thousand hectares, sow spring crops 36,5 thousand, winter crops - 21 thousand hectares. The SNK decision of April 20, 1933 noted: “It is the responsibility of the OGPU to sow 1933 thousand hectares of various field and garden crops in the places of resettlement of the new contingent in the autumn of 1934 and spring of 420, of which 180 thousand in Western Siberia ha, including winter rye in the fall of 1933 in Western Siberia 47500 ha. " Thus, the "new contingent", having barely arrived at the places of settlement, was supposed to have tens of thousands of hectares of arable land already in the fall!
        You can pay attention to the fact that the OGPU was entrusted with ensuring the fulfillment of these tasks, with all the ensuing consequences. And the special settlers uprooted, plowed, sowed and surrendered. And for non-fulfillment of tasks for bread-baking, strict punishment followed. A document has survived where the head of the Gulag reported to the narcotics officer of the interior: "At the proposal of the party’s regional committee secretary, Comrade Eikhe, for the sabotage of bread production and other events, 94 families of 400 settlers are moving from the Kolyvan commandant’s office to remote northern regions of the region."
        From the documents it is known that in 1931 on July 26-31, the only uprising of special migrants in the territory of the Parbig commandant's office (now the Chainsky and Bakcharsky districts of the Tomsk region) took place in Western Siberia. Almost one and a half thousand settlers took part in it. The uprising was brutally crushed by the forces of the OGPU, the police and the party-Soviet asset. Some of the rebels were killed during the suppression of the uprising, some were repressed after the uprising was liquidated, but some of the former rebels still live in Narym.
        A map of the Vasyugan part of the Kargasoksky district has been preserved in the Kargasoksky district department of statistics, it is called the “Scheme of the sections of the Middle and Nizhnevasyugan commandant’s offices, settled since May 26, 1931.” and carries the stamp "top secret."
        1. Glot
          Glot 15 September 2015 10: 26 New
          +3
          For example, the head of Siblag reported


          Can I see the original of this report?

          The decision of the Council of People's Commissars of April 20, 1933 noted:


          And the decision would be to read by itself.

          A document has been preserved where the head of the Gulag reported to the narcotics of the interior:


          Where is the document?

          A map of the Vasyugan part of the Kargasoksky district has been preserved in the Kargasoksky district department of statistics


          The map would also be interesting to look in the original.

          In general, there are many links to certain documents, but there are no documents themselves.
          Unconfirmed information is documented.
          Although I do not argue, maybe it was all like that, or maybe not so at all, maybe differently.
          1. Tomich2
            Tomich2 15 September 2015 11: 20 New
            +1
            All these documents are in the Tomsk region, you can come and see if you wish.
            Don’t believe Google to help you.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 11: 41 New
          +6
          Quote: Tomic2
          The SNK decision of April 20, 1933 noted: “It is the responsibility of the OGPU to sow 1933 thousand hectares of various field and garden crops in the places of resettlement of the new contingent in the autumn of 1934 and spring of 420, of which 180 thousand in Western Siberia ha, including winter rye in the fall of 1933 in Western Siberia 47500 ha. " Thus, the "new contingent", having barely arrived at the settlement, was supposed to have tens of thousands of hectares of arable land already in the fall!
          Moscow Kremlin

          No. 775/146 from April 20, 1933

          Ex. Number 56.

          Secretly

          On the organization of labor settlements of the OGPU
          The Council of People's Commissars of the USSR decides:

          1) To entrust the OGPU with the organization of labor settlements according to the type of existing special settlements for placement in them and the economic development of newly resettled contingents.

          To reorganize the Main Directorate of the OGPU camps into the Main Directorate of the OGPU camps and labor settlements, increasing the staff in the center and in the localities as agreed with the RCT. At the same time, reorganize the apparatus for special migrants in Siberia and Kazakstan, suggesting that the OGPU within 2 days submit the structure of the organization of labor settlements in these areas and in places of resettlement.

          Comrade Berman M., [134] to be appointed Head of the Main Directorate of Camps and Labor Settlements of the OGPU, and his deputies: for camps - Comrade Rappoport and for settlements - comrade Rina. [135]

          The following contingents should be sent to the created labor settlements:

          a) fists evicted from areas of continuous collectivization;

          b) evicted for the breakdown and sabotage of grain procurement and other campaigns;

          c) an urban element that refuses to leave Moscow and Leningrad due to passportization;

          d) fists fleeing from villages removed from industrial production;

          e) evicted in the order of cleaning state borders (the West and Ukraine);

          f) convicted by the bodies of the OGPU and the courts for a term of 3 to 5 years inclusive, except for those especially socially dangerous.

          2) The labor use of the evicted contingents is carried out directly by the Main Directorate of Camps and Labor Settlements of the OGPU by organizing agriculture, fishing, handicrafts and other types of households in places of resettlement. activities.

          3) To entrust the OGPU with the organization of housing, cultural, domestic and sanitary-medical construction in labor settlements and providing all types of supplies (food, manufactured goods, agricultural equipment, implements, etc.). Settlements to create in the range from 300 to 500 families each.

          4) To oblige the people's commissariats and business agencies serving the special resettlers of the old resettlement, who are engaged in agriculture and fishing (Narym and North Kazakhstan), to transfer to the OGPU all cash and material resources received both in the budgetary order and on budget no later than May 1 bank loan. The entire apparatus of these people's commissariats and business agencies, which is engaged in servicing special settlers, should also be transferred to the OGPU.

          5) The contingent of newly resettled people should be equated in all respects with special migrants resettled in 1930–1931.

          Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Union of the SSR V. Molotov (Scriabin) Managers of the Council of People's Commissars of the Union of the USSR I. Miroshnikov [136] Resolution of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR
    3. GRAY
      GRAY 15 September 2015 07: 59 New
      +24
      Quote: Mera Joota
      thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...

      I have a history teacher (!) Back in Soviet times, I loved to talk about how the Soviet army crushed defenseless people in tanks in Czechoslovakia - they drove straight to the abyss and who did not want to die under the caterpillars that signal down the rocks. smile
      The best way to break the lesson was any question that included the word "Czechoslovakia" - it carried all 40 minutes.
      And how happy she was in 1991, it was something. True, soon she had to die in poverty ... As they say: "see Paris and die," I hope this creature liked the "Paris", although this is unlikely - it was painfully stubborn.
    4. ava09
      ava09 15 September 2015 08: 35 New
      +11
      With porridge in your own head, first of all, you need to figure it out. The Soviet period was very diverse - right down to the opposites, for example: Trotskyism and Stalinism, the same thing? Oshchepkov was arrested under Yezhov, the Trotskyist, who was shot while restoring order to the NKVD by Beria. And do not compare the scumbag-investigator with Stalin.
      1. Mera joota
        Mera joota 15 September 2015 11: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: ava09
        Oshchepkov was arrested under Yezhov, the Trotskyist, who was shot while restoring order to the NKVD by Beria. And do not compare the scumbag-investigator with Stalin.

        What a nimble you are. Yezhov means Trotskyist ...
        Nikolai Yezhov had nothing to do with Trotsky; moreover, he plagued his comrades-in-arms at an accelerated pace, delighting Stalin with firing lists. Ezhov is a man of Stalin, he worked in the Organizational Distribution Department (Stalin's most important tool in the struggle for power) from 1926 to 1934. starting with the deputy and eventually leading him. All personnel changes that cleaned up managerial posts from the Trotskyists were due to Yezhov (naturally, under the supervision of Stalin). Stalin would never in his life admit Trotskyist to the arrangement of cadres. The fact that Yezhov was stuck at the trial with the stigma of a Trotskyist is not worth cheating ...
        1. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 15 September 2015 13: 14 New
          0
          The Stalinists have essentially one “iron” argument: the Trotskyists, the enemies of the people, in extreme cases, the excessists on the ground are to blame for everything that was bad under Stalin. But in all that is good, the merit of Comrade Stalin is solely that he built the Dneproges and took Berlin.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 18 New
            +3
            Belief in a good king and bad boyars this goes from old times ... I would very much like to see someone spend a massive social. poll of the Stalinists and anti-Stalinists, and finally would find out all the features of those and those. Social origin, gender, age, education, salary, psycho, up to blood type and chronic diseases. We would then have a social portrait of both of them and could compare ...
            1. Nikolay K
              Nikolay K 15 September 2015 16: 01 New
              +1
              Yeah. The ancestors of most of us were serfs. Apparently, many servile psychology has already built into genes, and so much so that even 150 years after the abolition of serfdom, they need a king, always kind, but strong, who, if he beats, means love.
            2. Nikolay K
              Nikolay K 15 September 2015 16: 01 New
              +3
              Yeah. The ancestors of most of us were serfs. Apparently, many servile psychology has already built into genes, and so much so that even 150 years after the abolition of serfdom, they need a king, always kind, but strong, who, if he beats, means love.
        2. ava09
          ava09 15 September 2015 16: 01 New
          0
          No, it’s you are clever ... you can work even in the GRU and be a traitor, here Gorbachert was generally the first person. There were a lot of enemies clinging to power in those years. And now, by your actions, you are trying to discredit the Man, after whose death it was the Trotskyist Khrushch who began to ruin the people's state. And it’s no secret that the NKVD, before the arrival of the “fire brigade” in the person of Beria, was a “State in the State” and a bunch of enemies.
    5. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 09: 09 New
      +6
      how thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...


      Strong phrase. ))))
      Just flowing shelves ...)))
      For some reason, I immediately remembered a similar opus of a girl that I read somewhere on the net, recalling the “horrors of the Afghan war” broadcasting on the whole Internet as if living in some kind of “small Belarusian town, hundreds of cars loaded with coffins were going through their town every night, the dead were taken there ... " EVERY NIGHT, HUNDREDS OF CARS THROUGH WITH Coffins, through this small, unknown town in Belarus. ))) I laughed for a long time reading this nonsense, and laughed at those who commented on it, ohai and akhai and curse of the USSR.
      Here's a similar song ...
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Down House
      Down House 15 September 2015 09: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: Mera Joota
      thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...

      Yes you sho !?
      But it’s not at all embarrassing that each ZEK had its own business, and without a card and a corpse he was a “fugitive”, and his Mr. Head for a “thousand” fugitives himself would be shot at least ?!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Mera joota
        Mera joota 15 September 2015 11: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Down House
        Yes you sho !? But it’s not at all embarrassing that each ZEK had its own business, and without a card and a corpse he was a “fugitive”, and his Mr. Head for a “thousand” fugitives himself would be shot at least ?!

        Enough has been written about Kolpashevsky Yar. A bunch of witnesses, there are people who first discovered the bodies washed away by the river. In Tomsk there is a museum of the NKVD where there are enough documents. You can savor your sarcasm as much as you like, but what will it change? You will remain with your opinion regardless of any documents and testimonies provided to you.
        1. Down House
          Down House 15 September 2015 11: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Mera Joota
          Enough has been written about Kolpashevsky Yar

          it is written that there was a camp burial for 4000 people.
          You are still an interesting person, do you think people didn’t die in the wild?
          I think that in "civilian" cemeteries there are hundreds to thousands of people more than in camp graveyards, and if a person died in the camp does not mean that he was necessarily killed without trial!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 14: 23 New
            -3
            Quote: Down House
            You are still an interesting person, do you think people didn’t die in the wild?

            Don't you like Kolpashevsky Yar? No problem, check out other addresses. Here are the "shooting lists" for Moscow. 78 sheets. Directly to the mailing addresses, everything is taken apart. How many people are there, I did not count, but on the last sheet of 100 names.
            Learn:
            http://mos.memo.ru/shot-1.htm
            1. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 16: 25 New
              0
              Quote: turk
              Here are the "shooting lists" for Moscow.

              Fictitious lists, shooting lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case!
              1. Glot
                Glot 15 September 2015 16: 37 New
                -1
                Fictitious lists, shooting lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case


                Yes, this MUM has linden, one continuous disinformation, spreading at the seams. )))
                1. Down House
                  Down House 15 September 2015 17: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Glot
                  one continuous disinfectant, creeping apart at the seams

                  Yes, because their whole “party line” is a series of “emotional evidence” and a complete disregard for any facts. Objective reality you see interferes with their logically flawless "reflections"!))))
              2. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 17: 16 New
                -1
                Quote: Down House
                The execution lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case!

                Smarter excuses need to come up. In order not to look like a scoundrel.
                1. Down House
                  Down House 15 September 2015 17: 50 New
                  +1
                  Quote: turk
                  excuses to invent

                  So do not make up your mind, first get acquainted with the basics of procedural legislation and paperwork so as not to write nonsense that the "shooting lists" were compiled by addresses!
                  1. turk
                    turk 15 September 2015 18: 11 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Down House
                    that the "hit lists" were compiled by addresses

                    Are you really such a ... brake? Or pretending to be?
                    1. Down House
                      Down House 15 September 2015 18: 35 New
                      0
                      Quote: turk
                      You really are

                      Have you come here to abuse? Sorry!
                    2. turk
                      turk 15 September 2015 18: 46 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Down House
                      Have you come here to abuse?

                      No. But I did not plan to be so surprised either.
                    3. turk
                      turk 15 September 2015 18: 46 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Down House
                      Have you come here to abuse?

                      No. But I did not plan to be so surprised either.
                2. The comment was deleted.
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    8. Fight cat
      Fight cat 23 September 2015 14: 06 New
      0
      personally, it doesn’t bother me, because the cards: they were both lost and not given up to the archive, and the archives were overloaded, and everyone knows what a relocation is. and about strict reporting under Stalin there is no need to drive the blizzard, it’s enough to read the documents, how they fought against crime and party violence after Stalin’s death ... Attention, all these comrades in the national republics were placed under Stalin and the criminal situation reached the point where Russian riots began, which were then suppressed with the help of troops already under Khrushchev! Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, received all their privileges under Stalin ... am ... I think that it was precisely Stalin’s rule that laid all these pitfalls that we raked in the 90s and subsequent years !!! Already under Stalin, we began to turn into a raw materials appendage of the West !!! You can criticize, but I can easily prove the opposite!
      For me, Stalin is a bloody ghoul among the same ghouls ... who worked purposefully to destroy Statehood and the Nation in favor of the Anglo-Saxons. What is the only decision at the UN headquarters in the USA. negative
  • Fight cat
    Fight cat 23 September 2015 13: 52 New
    0
    some simply don’t have the courage to admit that not everything was so beautiful in the Danish kingdom! but for me it was a focused machine to destroy any alternative thinking! sad
  • Down House
    Down House 15 September 2015 09: 06 New
    +9
    Yes, because there were no "popular repressions", think for yourself: the liberals often refer to the figures of those who died from repressions more than in the Second World War, but all of them relatives fought, died in the Second World War, but neither my friends nor I were repressed, although they died in The Second World War and convicted of a criminal after Stalin is!
    And how many, according to the “promises” of the liberals, were in the camps - so these camps should have been larger than Moscow, but I didn’t find any such “megalopolis” from Google-Sputnik! fellow
  • marlin1203
    marlin1203 15 September 2015 09: 48 New
    +6
    Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact, confirmed and condemned during the Soviet era. To speculate on this subject (supposedly, “was there a boy?”) Is immoral, too many lives are ruined and destinies are broken. We should not just forget that political repression is not our invention, but they existed in one form or another always and everywhere, and they must be considered in connection with the specific historical situation. As for our history, they accompanied radical changes in history - the revolution, the Second World War and many agree that it was impossible without them. It is inhumane by our standards, but they allowed the young Soviet government to survive, to collectivize, and later industrialize the country, renew the army and survive in the Second World War. What would otherwise be hard to imagine.
    1. Down House
      Down House 15 September 2015 10: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: marlin1203
      too many lives are ruined and destinies are broken.

      Firstly, it is not ruined, broken, but condemned according to the current legislation.
      Secondly, not a lot, all the data on the number of ZKs are declassified and online and you probably won’t believe it, but they were always strictly considered, if only because each ZK relied on a strict amount of content and “speculation” with these numbers was equivalent to execution !
      1. marlin1203
        marlin1203 15 September 2015 11: 01 New
        -4
        About the "current legislation" just do not, huh? .. fool Not even funny. I do not argue about the statistics, the records were kept. But "a lot" - there is a "lot." The concept is estimated and your claims are not clear.
        1. Down House
          Down House 15 September 2015 11: 17 New
          0
          Quote: marlin1203
          About "current legislation" just do not need

          No, the current legislation is the current legislation, in particular, the power of the state rests on it and it is necessary to respect it.
          Quote: marlin1203
          But "a lot" - there is a "lot." The concept is estimated and your claims are not clear.

          Your assessments are not clear, for example, even now more people are sitting in the USA than in the Stalin USSR, and the largest number of ZK under Stalin was in the post-war years, after the Citizen and the Great Patriotic War, that is, primarily during the revelry of post-war banditry.
          1. marlin1203
            marlin1203 15 September 2015 13: 00 New
            -2
            Do not confuse the American "sits" with our camps. And their population is 2 times more than ours. Have you heard about “socialist legality”, but about “recognition - the queen of evidence” ?. Do not write about what you do not understand.
            1. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 13: 18 New
              0
              “Confession is the queen of evidence”

              Summary of the myth

              This phrase is sometimes attributed to A.Ya. Vyshinsky (General Prosecutor of the USSR 1935–1939), sometimes he is credited with the fact that he allegedly brought a theoretical base for this thesis. As a rule, it is used as “indirect evidence” that in the Stalinist USSR most of the “political” cases were based on confessions extracted from the defendants, or to compare the criticized regime with the Stalinist one.

              Примеры использования

              “For those to whom the name Vyshinsky does not say anything, it is worth recalling that this chief director of the terrible political processes of the 30s successfully introduced the postulate into theory and practice: recognition is the queen of evidence.” 1) “Confession is the queen of evidence”. This is the catchphrase of Andrei Vyshinsky, the bloodiest prosecutor of the Stalin era, perfectly learned by Israeli judges, and they apply this simple principle with might and main. ”2)

              Reality

              In fact, this phrase was still in ancient Rome. Queen of evidence (lat. - Regina probationum) - this is what Roman law called guilty plea of ​​the defendant, which makes all other evidence, evidence and further investigative actions redundant. 3)

              Vyshinsky himself, as follows from his work “Theory of Judicial Evidence in Soviet Law” 4), held the opposite opinion (an excerpt from the text given in Wikipedia is given):

              “It would be a mistake to give the accused or the defendant, or rather, their explanations, more importance than they deserve it ... In quite distant times, during the era of domination in the theory of so-called legal (formal) evidence, the revaluation of the confessions of the defendant or the accused reached to such an extent that the recognition by the accused of guilty was considered to be an indisputable, unquestionable truth, even if this confession was wrested from him by torture, which at that time was almost the only process full evidence, at least considered the most serious evidence, the "queen of evidence" (regina probationum).

              ... This principle is completely unacceptable for Soviet law and judicial practice. Indeed, if other circumstances established in the case prove the guilt of the person brought to justice, then the consciousness of that person loses the value of evidence and in this regard becomes redundant. In this case, its significance can only be reduced to being the basis for assessing certain moral qualities of the defendant, for lowering or strengthening the punishment determined by the court.

              Such an organization of the investigation, in which the accused’s testimony turns out to be the main and - even worse - the only foundations of the entire investigation, can jeopardize the whole case if the accused changes his evidence or refuses them.

              http://wiki.istmat.info/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84:%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_
              %D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2
            2. Down House
              Down House 15 September 2015 13: 20 New
              -1
              Quote: marlin1203
              Do not confuse the American "sits" with our camps.

              Let's not, read for example about private prisons in the USA.
              http://pravo.ru/review/view/89878/
              In the USA, prisons are a whole business and anyone can be sentenced there for anything if he does not have enough money for a lawyer. And the content there is also not sugar and the killings and riots there are a regular occurrence.
              Quote: marlin1203
              Yes, and their population is 2 times more than ours

              It is important the amount of ZK per 100 thousand.
              Quote: marlin1203
              Have you heard, but about the "recognition - the queen of evidence"?

              Check out legal torture in US prisons, such as Guantanamo Bay, or read this, and that's it in the 21st century!
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BA%
              D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%87%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%B2_%D1%82%D1%8E%D1%80%D1%8C%
              D0%BC%D0%B5_%D0%90%D0%B1%D1%83-%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%B1
              1. marlin1203
                marlin1203 15 September 2015 14: 19 New
                -1
                1. Are you seriously trying to compare American prisons and our "nightingales" with "Magadan"? what 2. The American judiciary, based on case law, for all its comic times, still relies on the jury's verdict, which, if not at all, will to a large extent guarantee the fairness of the sentence. 3. Murders and riots in the United States, not only in prisons (Ferguson). With street crime and gangs they have more serious business than ours. 4. The relativity of the cited digital indicators (per 100000 people, you did not mention) 5. CIA prisons and then CIA prisons that torture in the United States is prohibited. So they were forced to do this in Guantanamo, in eastern Europe and, according to some reports, even in airplanes. So formally it all happened outside the jurisdiction of the United States. 6. Regarding the “queen of evidence” (by the way, without any difference Vyshinsky is the word or not, the established turnover in speech and professional activity) - take an interest in what “rehabilitation” is and how the prosecutor’s office worked in the 90s.
                1. Down House
                  Down House 15 September 2015 16: 30 New
                  -1
                  Quote: marlin1203
                  to compare American prisons and our "nightingales" with "Magadan"?

                  You started, but why? Do you want to feed ZK cakes or what? Do you generally know the principles of PUNISHMENT?
                  Quote: marlin1203
                  relies on jury verdict

                  Not everywhere and not always, you have very superficial ideas about the joint venture.
                  Quote: marlin1203
                  what is “rehabilitation” and how did the prosecutor's office deal with it in the 90s.

                  I know all this, but somehow we smoothly left the original topic. what
                  1. marlin1203
                    marlin1203 15 September 2015 16: 48 New
                    -2
                    I started with this: Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact, confirmed and condemned during the Soviet era. To speculate on this subject (supposedly, “was there a boy?”) Is immoral, too many lives are ruined and destinies are broken. We should not just forget that political repression is not our invention, but they existed in one form or another always and everywhere, and they must be considered in connection with the specific historical situation. As for our history, they accompanied radical changes in history - the revolution, the Second World War and many agree that it was impossible without them. It is inhumane by our standards, but they allowed the young Soviet government to survive, to collectivize, and subsequently industrialize the country, renew the army and survive in the Second World War. What would otherwise be hard to imagine. laughing В the bottom line: there were repressions, this is bad, but in the current historical situation is inevitable. It is criminal to close our eyes to this, but self-flagellation is not necessary. It is necessary to remember and protect what went at such a bitter price. Ps What is wrong with the US judicial system? What is their case-law or jury trial? So, the law is unprecedented, and the jury is certainly used (Amendment 6 of the US Constitution) is wider than ours (although in my opinion this is not for the best). And in order to make comments on the superficiality of knowledge in this case, you need at least a degree in law.
                    1. Down House
                      Down House 15 September 2015 18: 18 New
                      0
                      Quote: marlin1203
                      : Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact,

                      This is primarily the political step of Khrushchev initially, then the “democrats” who followed him, and we must understand that the very definition of "political repression" is nothing more than political "speculation"!
                      Google definition of the word Repression is punitive measures against criminals who have committed CRIMINAL crimes against state power, that is, the subject of the crime is a criminal, and the object of the crime is the state system, and there is no policy here, it is punishable, punishable and will be punished by any state.
                      And I accordingly have a question, how can the state be blamed for repressions if, from the point of view of law in repressions, the state is a "victim"? ))))
                      Quote: marlin1203
                      What is wrong with the US judiciary?

                      The fact that the "use" of juries and their role varies from state to state and case to case is not correct to speak of the "US judicial system" as something unified. Or am I wrong?
                    2. marlin1203
                      marlin1203 15 September 2015 19: 06 New
                      -1
                      Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo laughing That is, there will be no construct, we’ll measure ourselves in formulations and look for “primordial eggs”. Not that platform. You think that they didn’t repress anyone and didn’t shoot anyone, whatever ... no And about the judicial system ... Am I in vain referring to the US constitution? Or is it selectively applied in various states?
                  2. MrK
                    MrK 15 September 2015 22: 18 New
                    +2
                    I agree marlin1203. Put +.
                    I will add. As for the shortcomings of the Soviet system, the German scientist G. Simmel spoke well of them: - You, Russians, strange people, take off your pants and show the whole world your SCARFY PLACES - they say, look what we have. But all countries of the "Great West" have these places. But they don’t take off their trousers and DO NOT DEMONSTRATE HIMSELF to other nations. Or not?
                2. turk
                  turk 15 September 2015 19: 04 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Down House
                  Do you want to feed ZK cakes or what? Do you generally know the principles of PUNISHMENT?

                  Do you know what is most striking about the Stalinists? This is some kind of pathological cannibalism. Plus, absolute confidence that all of these "strictness", if they are repeated, will not be affected. Affected. And be sure in the first place.
                  And the state is obliged to provide worthy living conditions to its citizens everywhere. And in the wild, and outside of it. This is his concern, his function.
            3. kalibr
              kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 22 New
              0
              Tried in prisons and with us. Only here recently there was a story about Pskov ... It’s better not to go anywhere in prison!
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 20 New
            0
            Well done, good polimeziruesh!
          3. Dart2027
            Dart2027 15 September 2015 19: 24 New
            0
            Quote: marlin1203
            Do not confuse the American "sits" with our camps

            What's the difference?
          4. Weyland
            Weyland 15 September 2015 20: 16 New
            0
            Quote: marlin1203
            Do not confuse the American "sits" with our camps. And their population is 2 times more than ours. Have you heard about “socialist legality”, but about “recognition - the queen of evidence” ?. Do not write about what you do not understand.


            Sir, an American prison is no better than a Stalin one, this is not a European "resort" for you - prisons are private, and ZK plow like Pope Carlo! By the way, do you know that corporal punishment in prisons in several states was legalized before 1964? And in half the states in prisons for youngsters are they legalized to this day? The atrocities in the Stalinist camps, according to the then legislation, were still illegal - and in the USA, for example, during the Great Depression of one convict for vagrancy in prison to death for the fact that he being sick with malaria, I could not fulfill the daily output rate! A bastion of democracy ...
          5. The comment was deleted.
        2. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 15 September 2015 13: 26 New
          0
          Under the laws applicable in feudal Russia, the serf was the property of the landowner. So, in your opinion, from this torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation in force at that time? In addition to the norms of the law, there are also the concepts of morality. The murder or robbery of a person covered by the norms of the law only indicates the arbitrariness of the law.
          1. Down House
            Down House 15 September 2015 14: 03 New
            -1
            Quote: Nikolai K
            torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation applicable at that time

            Quote: Nikolai K
            In addition to the norms of the law, there are also the concepts of morality

            What are you talking about now ?!
            To torture and even more so to kill the “lackeys” to put it mildly “was not welcomed” even in those times, both from the point of view of law and from the point of view of morality.
            The same "Saltychikha" was sentenced to life imprisonment, then there was no death penalty.
            1. MrK
              MrK 16 September 2015 13: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Down House
              To torture and even more so to kill the “lackeys” to put it mildly “was not welcomed” even in those times, both from the point of view of law and from the point of view of morality.


              People were kept in slavery for two hundred years. They were sold and bought, they were exchanged for talking parrots and thoroughbred puppies. They could do anything with them. And they did.
              In the home shooting range of the Russian landowner Struysky, the gentlemen were entertained by the fact that they forced the serf men to run in a limited space and shot them with bullets and rifles. Sometimes missed, sometimes hit.
              Here is the landowner Korotkov, about whom the writer Grigorovich spoke at one time. When Korotkov’s wife asked her husband for money, he called the manager and casually threw:
              - Gryzlov, Marya Fyodorovna is going to Moscow, we need money ... Travel through the villages, I saw a lot of this small thing there, the riffraders have accumulated - dispose of it! This meant that Gryzlov and his assistants had to drive through the villages, catch the extra children and young girls and quickly ... sell them.
              Slavery corrupts everyone - both slaves and masters. Here is a sad example for you: the famous Russian book publisher and enlightener N.I. Novikov. He had a devoted serf man, who, when the master was put in prison for freethinking, voluntarily, out of pure devotion, followed him to prison.
              He was very fond of Novikov. Even at the table, celebrating with friends release from prison, he sat down with him. Yes, once I took it and sold it. It hurt too much good money, two thousand rubles, and things were upset.
              So I repeat: carefully study your genealogy, gentlemen, critics of the revolution. It’s good if your or Govorukhin’s great-great-great-grandfather was one of those whom the barefoot serfs treated in the bathhouse — well, how was one of them your great-great-great-grandmother?

              Excerpts from the book A. Kurlyandchik - “Cursed Soviet Power” ... on Proza.ru
          2. alicante11
            alicante11 15 September 2015 14: 19 New
            0
            So, in your opinion, from this torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation in force at that time?


            Look in Yandex for the word "Saltychikha" than this "madame" who loved to torture and kill "slaves" finished. And then in fact disgrace.
  • War and Peace
    War and Peace 15 September 2015 11: 31 New
    +1
    Svanidze was already throating with his anti-Stalin "investigations", and this MUM is a Jewish breeding ground for the false descendants of those who were involved in repression, it is necessary to cover this hotbed of destructiveness and lies in society ...
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 12: 12 New
      0
      And what about this say Fomenko with Nosovsky?
      1. War and Peace
        War and Peace 15 September 2015 12: 55 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        And what about this say Fomenko with Nosovsky?


        FINA on this occasion say - walk Vasya ...
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 23 New
        0
        Once minus means they are silent ...
        1. Glot
          Glot 15 September 2015 15: 32 New
          +1
          Once minus means they are silent ...


          This is for now. Years later ... they will write that there was neither Stalin nor the USSR, and all this was Hitler and Germany. ))))))) Or else that thread in the spirit of the "great and terrible Fomenko and Co.". )))
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 43 New
            0
            How well did you say ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • podpolkovnik
    podpolkovnik 15 September 2015 12: 06 New
    +7
    Quote: S_Baykala
    He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed. Although 15-20 years ago it was very fashionable to have a repressed relative. And in Moscow or St. Petersburg, apparently, every second "bloody gebnya" repressed (sarcasm). Get out of Moscow, and it’s dangerous there, they suddenly repress.

    Already laid out.
    But I think that in the subject ...
  • aleks 62 next
    aleks 62 next 15 September 2015 13: 33 New
    +2
    ... He lived 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

    .... The same story .... One of my distant relatives during the Second World War was the head of a large junction station in Siberia (a big city) .... You can imagine the level of responsibility ... I worked in the post throughout the war and did not remember not a single case of the so-called repressions ... By the way, in VO there was an article about the "horrors" of repressions based on declassified documents from the time of the Second World War and the first post-war years, about the punishment of traitors, including the Gulag .... It was amazing that they almost didn’t give the tower, mainly to accomplices and traitors in 10 years of camps, and in the Gulag 90% are criminals, not political, and the number of prisoners was overestimated (Solzhenitsyn) several times .... Liberastia .... Do you understand .... lol
    1. Babr
      Babr 15 September 2015 13: 45 New
      +2
      No, I confess, my mother was repressed.
      According to her stories, for spikelets. She sat until the evening in the collective farm barn.
      Then she graduated from sniper courses. Truth in the war did not participate. I did not have time.
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 September 2015 19: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: aleks 62 next
      in the Gulag 90% turned out to be criminals, not political

      The funny thing is that even in "Ivan Denisovich" the same follows from the text - political minorities, but mostly ordinary bandits.
      1. turk
        turk 15 September 2015 19: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Dart2027
        The funny thing is that even in "Ivan Denisovich" the same follows from the text - political minorities, but mostly ordinary bandits.

        The funny thing is not that. The funny thing is that the official statistics of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs are laid out at the top. Which you do not notice. And it clearly states that, for example, in 1938. at least 93% of those arrested were political.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 15 September 2015 21: 44 New
          +2
          In 1937-1938, a large-scale purge was carried out from which the enemies of the people emit poisonous saliva.
          1. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 22: 01 New
            -2
            Quote: Dart2027
            In the years 1937-1938 was carried out large-scale cleaning

            I would like to see how you screamed if you had been cleaned. With family. I’d probably be glad.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 15 September 2015 22: 45 New
              0
              Provide evidence that completely cleaned innocent people imagine?
              1. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 22: 55 New
                -1
                Quote: Dart2027
                that they cleaned completely innocent people

                Not cleaned. Clean the toilet after your trip there. KILLED. Here is what they did.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 16 September 2015 05: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: turk
                  KILLED. That's what they did

                  They kill - this is when liberals and democrats, completely anti-Stalinists, organized a gangster outrage in the country in the 90s, and when such liberals are put to the wall - this is called to cleanse the country of enemies of the people.
                  1. turk
                    turk 16 September 2015 20: 21 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    this is when liberals and democrats

                    You do not deviate from the topic.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 16 September 2015 23: 08 New
                      0
                      And I do not deviate.
                    2. turk
                      turk 16 September 2015 23: 24 New
                      -1
                      What did you post the picture to me here? Are you hinting that the bribe takers were shot? And bribe takers, are these criminals?
                      Then look at the numbers.
                      In 1937 157694 people were arrested. on criminal (not counter-revolutionary) articles. Suppose all of them were convicted and executed. Although in practice that year 15,5% of those arrested were not convicted. But in the same year 353074 people were shot. More than 2 times more. Where did they get them? Only from the "counter", no longer from where.
                      In 1938 45183 people were arrested. on criminal (not counter-revolutionary) articles. Suppose all of them were convicted and executed. Although in practice that year 13% of those arrested were not convicted. But in the same year 328618 people were shot. 7 times more. Where did they get them? Only from the "counter", no longer from where.
                      So, do not tell tales about the "criminal".
                    3. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 17 September 2015 19: 23 New
                      0
                      Quote: turk
                      Then look at the numbers.

                      According to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs (memorandum to Khrushchev from the Ministry of Internal Affairs), from 1921 to 1953, 642 people were executed for counter-revolutionary crimes, and 980 people were imprisoned.
                      Quote: turk
                      so don't tell tales about

                      a bloody tyrant, written by the grandchildren of thieves, bandits and traitors.
  • FID
    FID 15 September 2015 16: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: S_Baykala
    He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

    I have already written about this many times ... I come from Altai, my father is from Northern Kazakhstan, my mother is from Tutalskaya ... Very few people talk about repression, the closer to the Kremlin - the more descendants of the repressed - this leads to some thoughts .. .
  • VseDoFeNi
    VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 06: 08 New
    +2
    Stalin created a great country. Great not only the atomic bomb and price cuts. But also a change in nature.
    We still have to study his legacy and continue the work he started.

    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 08: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: Polar
        Yesterday you were a rabid anti-communist, anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist, and today you began to sing glory to Stalin.

        Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
        I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.
        1. Babr
          Babr 15 September 2015 08: 36 New
          0
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          Stalin created a great country. Great not only the atomic bomb and price cuts. But also a change in nature.
          We still have to study his legacy and continue the work he started.

          Strange, only koment came out, with words no longer in doubt.
          And immediately grabbed the minuses. As if a bunch of anti-Stalinists around the corner was waiting.
          Guys, when do you start to think with your head, and not with emotions?
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 15 September 2015 08: 54 New
            +2
            Quote: Babr
            Strange, only koment came out, with words no longer in doubt.
            And immediately grabbed the cons

            If he just wrote, this is one thing, but he put the video on a very dubious content and with a stupid name, so a minus.
            1. Babr
              Babr 15 September 2015 09: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: baltika-18
              baltika-18

              Not convincing. The video lasts more than an hour. (Also did not watch).
              I come to the thought that they put it to the one who cares.
              If you want to swarm, poke each other in a "personal"
              A branch then?
              1. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 09: 35 New
                +5
                Stalin's plan for transforming nature.

                The measures taken have led to an increase in grain yields on 25-30%, vegetables - 50-75%, herbs - 100-200%. Also, as a result of increased investment in agriculture and improved technical equipment of collective farms and state farms, it was possible to create a solid fodder base for the development of livestock (machine and tractor stations played a significant role in this). The production of meat and fat in 1951 compared with 1948 increased by 80%, including pork - by 100%, milk production - by 65%, eggs - by 240%, wool - by 50%. As a result, the share of public livestock raising on collective and state farms in livestock production increased significantly: in 1950 it amounted to 33% for meat, 25% for milk, 11% for eggs. "[2]

                However, with the death of Stalin in 1953, the implementation of the plan was curtailed. Many of the forest belts were cut down, several thousand ponds and reservoirs for fish breeding were abandoned, 1949 forest protection stations created in 1955-570 were liquidated at the direction of N. S. Khrushchev.
              2. baltika-18
                baltika-18 15 September 2015 09: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: Babr
                Not convincing. The video lasts more than an hour.

                I just watched this video. I love you know alternative points of view, especially in science. So here
                Quote: Babr
                If you want to swim,

                I don’t have much to do with it. I visit the site infrequently, I write the same little and only in topics that interest me, rarely minus, only really frank garbage.
                1. Babr
                  Babr 15 September 2015 10: 28 New
                  0
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  absolutely nothing to do with it.

                  No, I didn’t mean you at all.
                  It's just that yesterday (and it used to be), all the comments, (by the way, and not bad), which to a damn, were accompanied by a skirmish with their opponents. , he achieved this. If not, then this is not smart.
                  Therefore, I got in today.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 15 September 2015 08: 54 New
            +1
            Not at all strange. Simply, there are many people whose opinions differ from yours. You can not prove to them that they are right, they are for you. So they put minuses to you, and you to them. In Civil, it was the same, only they did without + and - there were other arguments!
          3. datura23
            datura23 15 September 2015 13: 31 New
            +1
            when the eggs grow ... i.e. never
        2. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 10: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
          I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.
          laughing

          VseDoFeNi September 8, 2012 10:23 | High treason at the level of the Minister of Defense. Or how the "general in a skirt" dishonors the entire Russian army and its commander in chief
          Twice in the last century, we smashed our country. And both times by the hands of the Communists. The first time, it was literally with the words - “We will destroy the whole world of violence to the ground”, and then there was a civil war, a complete decline in the country, millions of victims ... The second time at the hands of the Communists (who doubts, Chubais is a search engine CPSU, Gaidar CPSU ... and further down the list) destroyed the newly rebuilt country.
          The first time led to promises - "land to the peasants, factories workers." As a result, the land was taken from the peasants and the workers did not receive a factory.
          For the second time, chewing gum and other husks fell on jeans, destroying the second largest economy in the world in terms of GDP.

          VseDoFeNi October 9, 2012 09:18 | The United States adopted the Arly Burke type destroyer
          Yes, yes, the Communists took such good care of the country's defense capabilities that in 1991 they destroyed the country into 15 parts. They left all markets, both external and internal, put the ruble under the Western currency and made Russia a occupied colonial country - a raw materials appendage of the West. Lovely communists made such porridge that still can’t be overwhelmed.
          And if you recall how the Communists threw the whole country in 1917, promising the peasants land, and the factory workers, taking the land from the peasants and not giving the workers factories? How did you plunge your country into the nightmares of civil war?

          VseDoFeNi October 9, 2012 12:45 | The United States adopted the Arly Burke type destroyer
          When the Anglo-Saxons with the hands of corrupt brainless communists ruined the USSR, not a single ICBM started, when the submarines were cut, not a single torpedo was launched ...
          Learn to think with your own head and learn from history. Our country twice in the last century the Anglo-Saxons ruined by the hands of corrupt and brainless communists.

          VseDoFeNi August 18, 2014 05:39 | Square-nested generation. What grew up
          I repeat, whether you like it or not, namely the Bolshevik Communists (RSDLP-VKPb-KPSS) TWICE in the last century destroyed our country - in 1917 and in 1991. The publicly celebrated Great October Revolution was the direct cause of the civil war of 1918-1923 in which millions died our citizens, the country's economy was almost completely destroyed. There is a direct analogy with today's Ukraine - the Nikolaev shipyards do not build anything else, the industry is destroyed ... These are already the fruits of 1991. I’m wondering if the commander of the unit whose tanks fired at the government’s house in Moscow was a communist.


          Comrades! We Communists are people of a special kind. We are tailored from special material. We are the ones that make up the army of the great proletarian strategist, the army of Comrade Lenin. There is nothing higher than the honor of belonging to this army. There is nothing higher than the title of party member, whose founder and leader is Comrade Lenin. Not everyone is allowed to be a member of such a party. Not everyone is able to withstand the hardships and storms associated with membership in such a party. The sons of the working class, the sons of need and struggle, the sons of incredible hardships and heroic efforts — that is who, first of all, should be members of such a party. That is why the party of Leninists, the party of communists, is at the same time called the party of the working class.
          I. Stalin T.6 s.46
          1. Babr
            Babr 15 September 2015 12: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe

            Well, where is the crime?
            I also came across koment with very unpleasant remarks about the Communists.
            Darkness.

            I recommend the book of my colleague, where without a pencil everything is laid out on shelves. Here are excerpts:
            With the advent of Khrushchev, the rebirth of the Communists began.
            At the time of Brezhnev, all this smoldered ... with the advent of Gorbachev, the most favorable soil was created for decay - all the foundations of the party and society began to decay and collapse.
            As S. Kurginyan very accurately put it, all the guns of Soviet propaganda were loaded with dissident shit and shot into the brains of the people. Undoubtedly, decay was strongly encouraged by the special services of the West. In turn, the decay is due to the fact that, firstly, at one time EVERYBODY was dumped into the party. It consisted of half completely random and even hostile people.
            Only here are indicated which communists

            Yes, "who cares" called all the Communists ......... I will not repeat.
            Yes, he is wrong, collecting everything in a heap.
            But there was a whole crowd of you there, and not one pointed to his mistake.
            It means they themselves are not even a tooth's foot.
            Only fool around
            1. Uncle Joe
              Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 14: 11 New
              0
              Quote: Babr
              Well, where is the crime?
              As Lavrenty Pavlovich used to say - "How many bastards divorced. Would shoot, but a bastard ... this is not a criminal offense, there is no article."

              But there was a whole crowd of you there, and not one pointed to his mistake.
              VseDoFeNi (1) January 19, 2015 06:45 ↑ ↓
              Let me remind you that in 1991 the corrupt brainless communists destroyed the USSR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...

              Oleg147741 (2) January 19, 2015 07:55 ↑ ↓
              When a person says such things, you just want to say no censored words!
              The Communists defended the country and made up the USSR, which the world did not know, from a broken Russian imria. And it was not the Communists who destroyed the country, but the Jews! And this is not the same thing at all.
              It is for certain people who are not deprived of intelligence and push the fables that the commies are to blame for everything! Open your eyes!
              The Communists built the Dnieper and Magnitogorsk, went to the frontal on planes and shot down planes sent to enemy columns, covered embrasures with their breasts. We can say that they were ordinary people, but these ordinary people raised the country from the ruins, where tsarism drove it.
              So do not call the Gorbachev-Yeltsin trash with those communists who gave their lives. By hanging the Merc label on constipation, the latter remains constipated.
              1. Babr
                Babr 15 September 2015 15: 15 New
                0
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                VseDoFeNi (1) January 19, 2015 06:45 ↑ ↓
                Let me remind you that in 1991 the corrupt brainless communists destroyed the USSR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...

                And what is wrong?
                Let me remind you that the USSR was destroyed in 1991 by the corrupt brainless communists TEDDY BEAR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...
                It's all right?
                Tagged Secretary General. Communists are also present.
                And I will subscribe that they are corrupt and brainless.
                I don’t want to conduct a further debriefing. This is equivalent to scratching my fists on a pole. No offense.
                1. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 15: 29 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Babr
                  Such a "brainlessness", but for a good deed ...

                  A communist and a renegade with a party card are not the same thing.
                  The difference between them is about the same as between the realist and the KPI conspiracy theorist lol
                  1. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 16: 06 New
                    +1
                    You have not brought a single post suitable for this.
                    Quote: VseDoFeNi
                    Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
                    I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.
                  2. Babr
                    Babr 15 September 2015 16: 11 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Uncle Joe
                    The difference between them is about the same as between the realist and the KPI conspiracy theorist

                    Understood where you're driving. Realist.
                    I don’t play such games. To prove to someone (I already mentioned the post) the time to lose tongue
                2. MrK
                  MrK 15 September 2015 23: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Babr
                  And what is wrong?

                  Everything would be correctly told by you if you said: Rotten party nomenclature.
                  Speaking of brainless communists, you mean me - an ordinary communist. So I did not ruin the Union. And I still regret its destruction and the people deceived (as in the song).
                  I want to note that realizing the fatalities of the labeled policies, the real Communists scheduled an extraordinary congress of the CPSU for October.
                  But the creatures have specifically achieved the consent of those labeled on the State Emergency Committee. And then, as you know, the scribe. respectfully
                  1. Babr
                    Babr 16 September 2015 02: 26 New
                    0
                    I liked your comment. I even copied it for memory. Everything is sorted out. But you (an ordinary communist) are not mentioned here. Why? Why were you behind the scenes? So the system was vicious, where a bunch of people decide fate. And what kind of bunch You painted well.


                    I recommend the book of my colleague, where without a pencil everything is laid out on shelves. Here are excerpts:
                    With the advent of Khrushchev, the rebirth of the Communists began.
                    At the time of Brezhnev, all this smoldered ... with the advent of Gorbachev, the most favorable soil was created for decay - all the foundations of the party and society began to decay and collapse.
                    As S. Kurginyan very accurately put it, all the guns of Soviet propaganda were loaded with dissident shit and shot into the brains of the people. Undoubtedly, decay was strongly encouraged by the special services of the West. In turn, the decay is due to the fact that, firstly, at one time EVERYBODY was dumped into the party. It consisted of half completely random and even hostile people.
                  2. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 05: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: mrark
                    Speaking of brainless communists, you mean me - an ordinary communist.

                    Well, if you consider yourself as such ... Just do not ascribe to me what I did not say and do not call your interpretations mine.
                    Quote: VseDoFeNi
                    They are all different! That is the problem.
                    There are different people: kind, sympathetic, honest, decent, womanizer, brainless, corrupt, greedy, generous ... very different.
                    Communists are people, they are all DIFFERENT.


                    Quote: mrark
                    I want to note that realizing the fatalities of the labeled policies, the real Communists scheduled an extraordinary congress of the CPSU for October.

                    And Khrushchev was removed in 1964 ...
              2. kalibr
                kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 31 New
                0
                Those who gave their lives - gave. What about 18 million commies in 1991 year? Are they Judas all?
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 17: 51 New
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  What about 18 million commies in 1991? Are they all Judas?

                  They are all different! That is the problem.
                  There are different people: kind, sympathetic, honest, decent, womanizer, brainless, corrupt, greedy, generous ... very different.
                  Communists are people, they are all DIFFERENT.
                2. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 20: 30 New
                  -1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  First, carefully re-read, and then, if the question persists, ask it in a specific form.
              3. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 18: 25 New
                -1
                Quote: Uncle Joe
                The Communists defended the country and made up the USSR, which the world did not know, from a broken Russian imria.

                And who needed it, this USSR? Except the Bolsheviks? If a little less than a million people were shot, millions were sent to the Gulag, and millions more were starved to death. And the list goes on. Who needed this at such a price? If a little bridle was weakened, and this city itself fell to pieces.
                1. Uncle Joe
                  Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 20: 47 New
                  0
                  Quote: turk
                  And who needed it, this USSR? Except the Bolsheviks?




                  1. turk
                    turk 15 September 2015 20: 52 New
                    -4
                    You are like a child. Who do you want to pair this HS? To me? In vain.
                    Because the Bolsheviks have no merit in increasing life expectancy and reducing mortality. This is a global trend. And under normal conditions, the numbers would be much better than with the Bolsheviks.
                    You will soon declare that the fact that the sun was rising is also a merit of the Bolsheviks.
                    Demagogue.
                    1. Uncle Joe
                      Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 00: 41 New
                      0
                      Quote: turk
                      the merit of the Bolsheviks is not to increase life expectancy and decrease mortality. This is a global trend.
                      Demagogue.
                      laughing

                      Throughout the 19th century and up to the 17th year of the 20th century (over 100 years), the death rate dangled in the corridor from 27 to 30 ppm (the lowest rate is 25 ppm at the end of the 19th century).

                      By the 26th year, the mortality rate drops to 20 ppm, and continues to decline to 8 ppm in the 53rd year (now in the Russian Federation 12-13 ppm - and where only the global trend has disappeared lol )

                      Now look at smallpox



                      10.04.1919/1936/15 (the height of the Civil), a decree "On compulsory vaccination" was adopted, and by XNUMX (over XNUMX years) smallpox in the USSR was liquidated as a phenomenon.

                      Europe has been vaccinated against smallpox since the beginning of the 19th century, and in Russia to the Bolsheviks (more than 100 years ago) no one has found time or money for this.

                      In general, select a broom smile
                      1. turk
                        turk 16 September 2015 20: 23 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Uncle Joe
                        throughout the 19th century

                        You still compare with the days of King Peas. When they lived for 40 years. And conclude that there was great happiness from the Bolsheviks. Chatterbox.
                      2. Uncle Joe
                        Uncle Joe 16 September 2015 20: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: turk
                        You still

                        Have you been moonlighting for a long time?
                      3. turk
                        turk 16 September 2015 20: 48 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Uncle Joe
                        Have you been moonlighting for a long time?

                        This is temporary. At the time of communication with neostalinists.
                      4. Uncle Joe
                        Uncle Joe 17 September 2015 04: 32 New
                        0
                        Quote: turk
                        At the time of communication with neo-Stalinists
                        So in this case, the address was wrong.
                      5. turk
                        turk 17 September 2015 09: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Uncle Joe
                        So in this case, the address was wrong.

                        How can you be mistaken here, if everything is clear, like God's day?
                  2. The comment was deleted.
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    2. MrK
      MrK 15 September 2015 22: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Babr
      I also came across koment with very unpleasant remarks about the Communists.
      Darkness.

      Dear Babr. I do not want to offend you, but how do you feel about the fact that I will call you, well, for example, a rotten woman?
      My nickname is mrARK. Mr. I put an abbreviation for the name, on the recommendation of the moderator, during registration, since the ARC was already there, and it means Mr..
      And with regards to the Communists. Both I and my colleague Kurlandchik, the author of the book “Damned Soviet Power” ... (note in quotation marks) bow to the belt even the memory of the Communists who created the USSR, carried out industrialization, defeated Nazi Europe, restored the country after the war. But I will never respect the "communists" who helped to destroy the Soviet Union. These are not communists, but intellectual talkers.
      I know about them not by hearsay. In 1976, they pushed me to the liberated Komsomol work. For half a year I spun among the liberated Komsomol members and realized that they are people, to put it mildly, not decent.
      The main task of their task is to properly chat, bring vodka and put girls under bosses. I know many honest and decent party workers at the time. But they did not do the weather. And we are not ordinary communists.
      After half a year I was invited by the HIGH PARTNER and asked if I would go to lead the Komsomol. I refused, citing that I had already prepared half the dissertation in technical sciences. And he asked for direction in graduate school.
      Direction for admission was given. Saying: anyway, after protection you come to us, because we are power.
      I did not come and do not regret it. And do not think that I am anti-communist. I consider myself a Stalinist. Sincerely.
      1. Babr
        Babr 16 September 2015 04: 07 New
        0
        Dear Mrark. In no case did not want to offend you somehow.
        It’s just that I had a combination of letters in my head (I missed one at all) and I gave it out. I repent before I mentally read it as I wrote it in comments. I was interested in comments, not the hat.
        Once again, I apologize.
      2. Stelth1985
        Stelth1985 23 September 2015 05: 58 New
        0
        I agree with you. Being a Stalin is an honor and pride. No one else has this from other "directions". A Stalin will NEVER lose his face, even under pain. That is how Comrade Stalin raised his Guard. It was such people who took the brunt of the filthy Europe (I don’t write with much contempt) and won. And then they built the ruined at an accelerated pace and were the first to get to the Cosmos. Stalin is not just a man, a leader, a leader. This is, first and foremost, an idea against which people like scum pigs are trying to fight. The Nazis also tried ... from trying. Many lay in the grave, but some remained without it. Americans are trying, in the end, too, will tear the navel. Stalinists can now be safely called Great People of the Great Epoch. It is the Stalinists who are most afraid of both here and beyond the hill.

        For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 40 New
    +1
    The funny thing is that when I said the same thing to my local commies, they said "you and your daughter have enough cameras for us." She was studying at the local pedagogue then and there were two greyhounds of young commies hissing like that. Then one ran the local Komsomol, the other was printed in the local comm-newspaper. And so ... the first one received an invitation to become the deputy representative of the president and ... went like a pretty little to represent the “regime”. The second and completely distinguished! Governor Bochkarev wrote, he will lose the election, and then the sun will rise over the region. He won, Communist Ilyukhin lost, and this honest commie received an invitation to work as a PR man at Bochkarev. And went! Then ... for something with a height "left" and ... it turned out he was with me in the same department - to teach the PR. That is the pernicious invention of American imperialism! What did you buy? And where are the principles? And I think that they are principled only until they are put on their paw. How to put all the principles in your pocket! And these are just two examples, and there are others ...
  • turk
    turk 15 September 2015 19: 24 New
    -1
    Quote: VseDoFeNi
    Stalin was neither corrupt,

    Really? Have you ever thought, why the hell did the Anglo-Saxons need this rogue? Than he had them so much in 1941. interested in?
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 September 2015 19: 48 New
      0
      In the thirties, they brought Hitler to power so that he would fight with Stalin.
      1. turk
        turk 15 September 2015 20: 00 New
        -2
        Quote: Dart2027
        In the thirties they brought Hitler to power so that he would fight with Stalin

        PPC. I have no words. Well, what can I answer such a statement?
        Unless to object, no, they brought him to power so that Stalin would not land on Mars. Together with the Politburo. And the scoundrel Hitler tore off this landing.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 15 September 2015 21: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: turk
          PPC. I have no words.

          First, Hitler is appointed to a managerial post after a lost election, then he is allowed to create an army and given money for it, then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).
          When you know nothing but liberal nonsense, there really is nothing to say.
          1. turk
            turk 15 September 2015 22: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: Dart2027
            then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).

            What does the USSR have to do with it?
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 15 September 2015 22: 42 New
              0
              And against whom was he prepared?
              1. turk
                turk 15 September 2015 22: 53 New
                -2
                Quote: Dart2027
                And against whom was he prepared?

                Who cooked something? You would be tied up with conspiracy.
                And they would remember that in the 30's the USSR was a dense and backward state at the edge of the world. Which most in Europe have not even heard of. And of course, this state did not interest anyone at all. Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.
                1. MrK
                  MrK 16 September 2015 13: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: turk
                  And they would remember that in the 30's the USSR was a dense and backward state at the edge of the world. Which most in Europe have not even heard of. And of course, this state did not interest anyone at all. Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.


                  We kindly ask you not to forget that Stalin inherited. He had to make colossal sacrifices solely because Russia was brought to such a miserable state by his predecessors - both crowned persons, and dumb dignitaries, and a shrill, agonizing, such as Turkish, intelligentsia. They destroyed everything that could be destroyed, and Stalin had to straighten everything out.
                  The West, respecting only power, instantly changed tonality. Would you like to get acquainted with a brief overview of foreign reviews, moreover, not by the left-wing press? France, Le Temps newspaper (Tan): “Communism is completing the reconstruction at a gigantic pace, while the capitalist system allows only slow steps ... In France, where land ownership is divided infinitely between individual owners, it is impossible to mechanize agriculture.
                  The Soviets, while industrializing agriculture, managed to solve the problem ... In the competition with us, the Bolsheviks were victorious
                  ».
                  England, the bourgeois magazine The Round Table (Round Table): “The achievements of the five-year plan are an amazing phenomenon. Tractor plants in Kharkov and Stalingrad, the AMO automobile plant in Moscow, the automobile plant in Nizhny Novgorod, the Dnepropetrovsk hydroelectric power station, the grandiose steel mills in Magnitogorsk and Kuznetsk. A whole network of engineering and chemical plants in the Urals, which is turning into the Soviet Ruhr, all these and other industrial achievements throughout the country indicate that, whatever the difficulties, Soviet industry, as a well-irrigated plant, grows and grows stronger».
                  And there are thousands and thousands of such newspaper publications.
                  Kurlandchik A.– “CURSED SOVIET AUTHORITY” ... on Proza.ru
                2. turk
                  turk 16 September 2015 20: 27 New
                  -2
                  Quote: mrark
                  We kindly ask you not to forget that Stalin inherited. He had to make colossal sacrifices solely because Russia was brought to such a miserable state by his predecessors

                  Learn the story, ignoramus. The predecessors of Stalin was a certain Lenin. And it was his "rule" that plunged Russia into de * demo.
                  First, this villain staged an armed coup. And, as a result, the Civil War. Then he decided to build "war communism." Then he decided to “ignite the flame of revolution throughout Europe.” But could not, because received in the face from Poland. Then he built the NEP. He just didn’t know what he wanted at all. Just let the country peddle.
              2. Dart2027
                Dart2027 16 September 2015 19: 01 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                Who cooked something?

                The British, French and Americans.
                Quote: turk
                You would be tied up with conspiracy.

                When talking about conspiracy theology, as a rule, they cannot say anything essentially.
                Quote: turk
                The USSR was a dense and backward state

                After the Civil War, it was completely destroyed, but in the 30s they just modernized.
                Quote: turk
                Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.

                This is you self-critical
              3. turk
                turk 16 September 2015 19: 43 New
                -2
                Quote: Dart2027
                British, French and Americans

                Against the USSR? How do you feel? They in the 30s and did not know who this USSR was.
                Quote: Dart2027
                but in the 30s they just modernized

                Yes Yes. I heard about it too. Its results were especially clearly visible in the summer and autumn of 1941.
                Quote: Dart2027
                then as a rule they cannot say anything essentially

                Well, to what creature? Poland was appointed the chief overseer of the naughty surrounding aborigines (including Germany) in those days. At first it was enough for everyone. And then it wasn’t enough.
                He puts forward the "version" here, damn it. He suffered from delusions of grandeur.
              4. Dart2027
                Dart2027 16 September 2015 23: 14 New
                -1
                Quote: turk
                How do you feel?

                And you?
                Quote: turk
                They in the 30s and did not know who this USSR was.

                Can the source be? I somehow always thought that diplomatic relations were established a little earlier.
                Quote: turk
                Its results were especially clearly visible in the summer and autumn of 1941.

                You do not know, but the presence of technology does not mean that everything will go as if by notes. How much did Hitler endure France?
                Quote: turk
                Poland was appointed

                Was appointed by whom? The overseer is just a servant, so there were masters.
                Quote: turk
                He puts forward the "version" here, damn it. I suffered from megalomania

                That is, there is still nothing to argue with?
              5. The comment was deleted.
              6. Cat man null
                Cat man null 16 September 2015 23: 42 New
                +1
                Quote: turk
                Although they (Germans) are actually his (socialism) along with Comrade Stalin and his gang planned just push for line AA (Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan along the Northern Dvina and Volga)

                Yeah .. that is, an uncle comes to my apartment and says: “now you will live on the balcony .. you have it big, almost six squares” ..

                Guess three times my actions laughing

                And - yes .. I already heard this bike somewhere .. the training manuals are the same, the campaign wink
              7. turk
                turk 17 September 2015 00: 06 New
                -2
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                that is, an uncle comes to my apartment and says: "and now you will live on the balcony .. you have it big, almost six squares almost" ..

                And you think that in certain circumstances you will not trample on the balcony? You are mistaken, already running.
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                Guess three times my actions

                Can I clarify? Have you already gotten a boot in your head with a foot? Before deciding on a relocation. Or are you just planning to get one? Clarifying this is very important. Because greatly facilitates the search for compromise.
                Stalin in those days already received. No, he initially planned to stick his uncle. But it didn’t work out. Therefore, he rushed to a rival gang. It was proudly called the "Anti-Hitler Coalition" and at that time consisted mainly of Britain. There was still a starving man de Gaulle with three French invalids. And about the same hungry man Sikorsky with a couple of Polish. The United States did not enter the coalition then; formally, before Pearl Harbor, it was a neutral state.
                Britain agreed to help, but in return demanded a bunch of all sorts of services. Very ruinous and even catastrophic for the country and its population. But Stalin was not interested in anything other than his personal power. So he agreed. Then you know everything.
              8. Cat man null
                Cat man null 17 September 2015 04: 52 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                Have you already gotten a boot in your head with a foot? Before deciding on a relocation. Or are you just planning to get one? Stalin in those days already received

                Well, that wasn’t a “boot in the head” .. rather a click on the nose .. you’re on the scale of that .. measure it wink

                Quote: turk
                Very ruinous and even catastrophic for the country and its population

                Sorry, but was the apartment saved? Uncle got a lesson? The population is restored, the furniture is repaired, and in some places even updated?

                Quote: turk
                But Stalin was not interested in anything other than his personal power. Therefore he agreed

                Nah, not so. But because I wanted to keep the apartment intact. For children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

                How is such a model? belay
              9. turk
                turk 17 September 2015 09: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                rather a click on the nose .. you are the scale of something .. measure

                That's because I am measuring, therefore, I wrote about the shoe in the head. And not about clicking on the nose.
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                Sorry, but was the apartment saved? Uncle got a lesson? The population is restored, the furniture is repaired, and in some places even updated?

                You do not write nonsense.
                There is no apartment. And it could not be. Because she was partially alien.
                Uncle feels great. We would have to get to his level someday.
                Population cannot be restored by definition. Because any person of reproductive age, even crushed by a tram, is lost to the nation forever. Moreover, he is not alone, but all his non-random offspring. And in this sense, not a catastrophe occurred in Russia, but tragedy national scale. Russia has lost the most important thing that any state has, "human capital". Both in real time and for the future. After that, from the peripheral civilization (Moscow, the third Rome, it was not really a joke) it turned into an ordinary Asian-European roadside.
                Furniture is repaired. But this is really all right. Only this furniture has no value. Nonsense, actually.
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                But because I wanted to keep the apartment intact. For children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

                You are my dear. He even spit on his own children. He completely did not care about the fate of his children after his death. And you say that he wanted to preserve something for the future. He wanted to sneeze for this future.
                For myself, my beloved, I tried. For your own greatness. Besides the Georgians, that he was these Russians?
              10. Cat man null
                Cat man null 17 September 2015 09: 56 New
                0
                Quote: turk
                There is no apartment. And it could not be. Because she was partially alien

                Um .. what are you talking about? I'm talking about the USSR, from which fragments still remain, the largest is the Russian Federation, and you?

                Quote: turk
                Uncle feels great. We would have to get to his level someday

                Again ... I'm talking about Hitler and the German National Socialists .. do they really feel great about themselves? belay

                Quote: turk
                Russia has lost the most important thing that any state has, "human capital." Both in real time and for the future. Then from the peripheral civilization (Moscow, the third Rome, it was not really a joke) turned into an ordinary Asian-European roadside

                Mdya .. that is, people who after the war all restored and multiplied-this is not people anymore? Ugh on you fool

                Quote: turk
                He even spit on his own children. He completely did not care about the fate of his children after his death.

                And how is it possible to take care after your death? I definitely don’t know how ..

                Quote: turk
                He wanted to sneeze for this future.
                For myself, my beloved, I tried. For your own greatness.

                Well yes, yes yes .. Everyone would try so hard .. "for their own greatness" ..

                Quote: turk
                Besides the Georgians, that he was these Russians?

                And he was a Russian Georgian .. as it is now - Russian Tatars, Armenians, and many others wink

                Total: you bear, dear, feverish delirium. Or a lot of years? Then this insanity is called .. brain degradation that is.

                Sorry for you sad
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 17 September 2015 04: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Guess three times my actions
          Tell yourself that this is a given, and go buy a potbelly stove laughing
        3. Cat man null
          Cat man null 17 September 2015 04: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Uncle Joe
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Guess three times my actions
          Tell yourself that this is a given, and go buy a potbelly stove laughing

          Avot # @ th !!! laughing
  • turk
    turk 16 September 2015 23: 47 New
    -2
    Quote: Dart2027
    I somehow always thought that diplomatic relations were established a little earlier.

    Are you a diplomat? So the population of countries consists mainly of diplomats. And the poor backyards of Europe in the rich center were of little interest to anyone.
    Quote: Dart2027
    How much did Hitler endure France?

    Not at all. You probably haven’t heard anything about Vichy? France simply refused to fight for Angosak interests in Europe. That's all.
    You are somehow less interested in "Soviet history." She will not bring you to good. You won’t understand what and how it really was. You’ll give a damn, like Popka, that the Germans have only dreamed all their lives of how to plague the “first-ever socialist state” under the root. In this case, the very Communists pressed on "the liquidation of the gains of socialism." Although the Germans actually him (socialism) along with comrade Stalin and his gang were only planning to push over the line AA (Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan along the Northern Dvina and the Volga). And what he would do there, they were of little interest.
    Quote: Dart2027
    Was appointed by whom? The overseer is just a servant, so there were masters.

    Mostly France. But with the approval of Britain. There was, generally speaking, a rather strange Franco-British tandem. Strictly speaking, the tandem parties hated each other. Because were rivals.
    Quote: Dart2027
    That is, there is still nothing to argue with?

    And you didn’t read what was written? Or do not understand?
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 17 September 2015 05: 51 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    And the poor backyards of Europe in the rich center, few were interested

    That is, they still knew. Already good. So how is it known that the USSR was of no interest to anyone?
    Quote: turk
    Not at all. You probably haven’t heard anything about Vichy?

    That is, France voluntarily allowed Hitler to occupy itself up to Paris? Cool. And who of the French politicians wrote about this in his memoirs?
    Quote: turk
    You are somehow less interested in "Soviet history"

    Well, you don’t know the story at all.
    Quote: turk
    There was, generally speaking, a rather strange Franco-British tandem

    That is, it was they who controlled Germany and it was they who brought Hitler to power.
    Quote: turk
    And you didn’t read what was written?

    Quote: Dart2027
    First, Hitler is appointed to a managerial post after a lost election, then he is allowed to create an army and given money for it, then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).
    When you know nothing but liberal nonsense, there really is nothing to say.

    Read it again.
  • turk
    turk 17 September 2015 09: 20 New
    -1
    Quote: Dart2027
    So how is it known that the USSR was of no interest to anyone?

    From the camel. Are you very interested in the life of the state of Burkina Faso? Do you know where it is located exactly and what is happening there? Here I am about it. The USSR in the 30s was the same. They heard about him after he, together with Germany, divided Poland.
    Quote: Dart2027
    That is, France voluntarily allowed Hitler to occupy itself up to Paris?

    By evil. But allowed. It is written in any history textbook.
    Quote: Dart2027
    they controlled Germany

    It was they who controlled Europe. As it later turned out, poorly controlled.
    Quote: Dart2027
    it was they who brought Hitler to power.

    Germans. Hitler was brought to power by the Germans. And they held him in power until May 1945. Germans too. No need to fantasize.
    Quote: Dart2027
    Read it again.

    You read it again. Previous paragraph And do not tell the Soviet nonsense. Already sick of Bolshevik tales. Not a word of truth, just a lie. Is always. With or without reason. Just some maniacs of lies.
    And end up with conspiracy thesis. "Munich conspiracy," "strange war." Enough of these stupid terms. Everything was simple and logical.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 17 September 2015 19: 16 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    From the camel. You are very interested

    I can be interested in anything and it does not matter to anyone except me personally. But this is what those who rule the countries and the top of all kinds of oligarchs are interested in - this is politics. And they knew very well.
    Quote: turk
    By evil. But allowed.

    That is, they lost the war or not? You claim that
    Quote: turk
    France simply refused to fight for Angosak interests in Europe
    That is, they simply surrendered because they themselves wanted to be occupied? The source of this nonsense can be found?
    Quote: turk
    It was they who controlled Europe.

    that is, after all, they brought Hitler to power?
    Quote: turk
    Germans. Hitler brought to power the Germans

    You do not know, but he lost the election.
    Quote: turk
    "Munich conspiracy," "strange war." Enough of these stupid terms. Everything was simple and logical.

    And what is the logic? Enlighten, otherwise it turns out
    Quote: Dart2027
    When talking about conspiracy theology, as a rule, they cannot say anything essentially.

    In any case, your opus is just liberal nonsense. Already sick of the State Department fairy tales. Not a word of truth, just a lie. Is always. With or without reason. Just some maniacs of lies.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dry_T-50
    Dry_T-50 15 September 2015 14: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Polar
    Did you happen to hangover today, hero?
    Yesterday you were a rabid anti-communist, anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist, and today you began to sing glory to Stalin. Did he take a turn to another cashier?

    So what? I’m also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it’s better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs
    1. Babr
      Babr 15 September 2015 15: 35 New
      0
      belay
      Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
      So what? I’m also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it’s better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs

      You read this and think, "Where did I go? Where are my things?"
      An anti-Stalinist, albeit moderate. Have you ever wondered what you are comparing?
    2. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 15 September 2015 16: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
      I am also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it is better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs

      Only I am not an anti-Stalinist. If not for his actions, my father would not have had to release Majdanek, but burn in his crematorium. As, however, and most of our citizens of that time.

      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BA
  • Commissar of the NKVD
    Commissar of the NKVD 15 September 2015 06: 13 New
    +25
    what kind of creatures they are, in order to judge a person whom they don’t even want to clean the toilet! The people ALREADY judged Stalin and the era, the most legitimate, most popular, and therefore the most fair court in 1941-45, when the population had a huge amount of weapons on hand. But he did not turn it, but crushed the Hitler Youth. So whose cow would mumble, and your b would be silent
  • NKVD
    NKVD 15 September 2015 06: 20 New
    -2
    Winners are not judged
    1. ava09
      ava09 15 September 2015 08: 27 New
      +2
      (C) Winners are not judged

      Demented. Who is capable - reasoning. I’m not sure that the criminals who won in 1991 should not be judged ...
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 08: 48 New
        +1
        And their accomplices? 18 million CPSU members who did not go to the barricades for communism? After all, they taught in Marxist-Leninist universities what capitalism is ... but ... How about them?
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 15 September 2015 06: 31 New
    +1
    Thanks for the network, Alexey ++++
  • lilian
    lilian 15 September 2015 06: 37 New
    +15
    In 1966, during a visit to Moscow, the President of France de Gaulle, contrary to the protocol, expressed a desire to visit the grave of Stalin. They tried to dissuade him, but the general was adamant. Charles de Gaulle obtained permission to "private", that is, a personal visit to the grave of IV. Stalin. There, the general, laying a wreath, remained in mournful silence for about 20 minutes.

    During the visit, the general visited Leningrad, Kiev, Volgograd, Novosibirsk, and the Baikonur Cosmodrome. Moreover, upon arrival in Volgograd, he did not fail to notice the representatives of the French press: “No matter what this city is called today due to the ideological situation in the USSR, in world and Soviet history it will always be only Stalingrad.”
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 15 September 2015 06: 41 New
    +16
    Every lion can kick a dead lion
    1. ava09
      ava09 15 September 2015 06: 50 New
      +6
      The first and third in the figure - for sure ... And in the center - I doubt that the Trotskyists too stubbornly, having come to power, magnified it. One monument from the "democrat" Tsereteli what is it worth?
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 15 September 2015 07: 09 New
        0
        Do you doubt the merits of Peter ...?
        1. ava09
          ava09 15 September 2015 08: 21 New
          +2
          Only a nerd doesn’t doubt anything ...) "History is a lie accepted by the majority.", I hope you yourself are not from the "majority"?
          1. Vladimir73
            Vladimir73 15 September 2015 09: 41 New
            0
            It’s just that Peter I is more comfortable with them - the image of a reformer and exalter of Western values ​​...
  • strelets
    strelets 15 September 2015 06: 47 New
    +10
    Here are the creatures. Work out their 30 pieces of silver.
    When will pay attention to the textbooks that poison our children ??? Daughters in the 7th grade say - Ivan the Terrible was the most cruel ruler of his time (about Henry VIII and Maria the Bloody, about the Bartholomew’s massacre silent), Peter I JACOB worked as a simple carpenter (although this is a scientifically proven fact).
    Where does patriotism come from? Of course, we explained to the child how to. But family and school must be in tune in unison.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 07: 39 New
      +2
      About Heinrich and Maria pass later. Our presentation of information in textbooks is not parallel.
    2. marlin1203
      marlin1203 15 September 2015 09: 51 New
      +2
      Well, right, Peter 1 did not work. HE LEARNED to the ship's carpentry. His work is different - the king!
    3. Weyland
      Weyland 15 September 2015 20: 33 New
      0
      Quote: strelets
      about Henry VIII and Mary the Bloody


      Well, "Bloody Mary" is just the same victim of black PR, like Ivan the Terrible: she executed 4 thousand Protestants, but to this day, her popular sister Elizabeth executed 86 thousands Catholics. Well, they don’t feel sorry for them ... Again, the Bloody Mary subjected the Protestants to a painful burning alive, and with the glorious Fire-Bess the Catholics were humanely castrated, gutted and quartered (if they didn’t understand, these were not 3 executions, but one - sequentially ...).
      It is not surprising that Bess refused Ivan the Terrible when he clung to her - not only because of his cruelty, but vice versa: only 3 thousand executed - what a liberal squelch, really !? wassat
  • rosarioagro
    rosarioagro 15 September 2015 07: 15 New
    -6
    Yes, there were no repressions at all, it's all Mao Jie Dong invented :-)
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 15 September 2015 07: 17 New
    +6
    Nikolai Svanidze (I think he doesn’t need a special introduction),

    This "historian" really needs no introduction. It is amazing how such a hater of Russia and all Russian promotes his ideas on Russian TV. So someone needs this?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 27 New
      0
      That's good you see the root. So someone needs ... And to whom?
  • press officer
    press officer 15 September 2015 07: 33 New
    +7
    mdaaaaa ... I remember this ... Lord, forgive me, Chubais Sr. stated that in fact there was no blockade of Leningrad! The Soviet authorities invented all this bad things! Did not have! Food was delivered by carriages, it was just stolen !!!! And the most interesting is that Chubais has a daddy who is a participant in the Second World War! And he even seemed to have some merit! Only apparently died quickly, or died early .. since the sons of the sick grew by a head! Behind the scenes of that Chubais interview, the host said, since you deny the blockade of Leningrad, can you then begin to deny that your father is a participant in the Second World War?
  • Seryoga DV
    Seryoga DV 15 September 2015 07: 34 New
    +5
    and with this MUM I was inspired by an old joke:
    A woman lies in bed with her lover. Suddenly heard
    doorbell, she realizes that her husband came and in a fit of despair
    exclaims:
    “Lord, make sure he doesn't notice anything!”
    Heaven opens and the Lord says:
    “Fine, I'll do it, but you will die of water.”
    She says:
    - Good.
    It takes a year, two years. A woman does not bathe, she only bathes in the shower, she tries
    if possible by any means avoid water. 3 years pass by, she
    unexpectedly wins a ticket to a sea cruise.
    She doubted, doubted, and decided to go. She swims on a chic
    liner, suddenly a storm begins at night, the ship is sinking in panic. It
    exclaims again in a fit of despair:
    “Lord, you cannot sink the whole ship alone because of me!”
    Heaven opens and the Lord says:
    - Yes, I, BL..EY, have been collecting this ship for three years
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    I wonder what would it be? )))
  • iury.vorgul
    iury.vorgul 15 September 2015 07: 42 New
    +2
    Just because a father is a war hero does not mean that children will be patriots. An example is the Gaidar family. Grandfather - a hero of the Civil and Patriotic Wars, an excellent writer, father - also fought well, and his son forever disgraced the name in Russian history, well, Masha - political forgive me ... God.
    1. Seryoga DV
      Seryoga DV 15 September 2015 08: 07 New
      +1
      Nature rests on children. They say.
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 15 September 2015 08: 45 New
      0
      Quote: iury.vorgul
      Gaidar. Grandfather is a hero of civil

      There was a civil war, and served in the CHON (part of the special purpose), read Soloukhin about that "heroism".
      1. iury.vorgul
        iury.vorgul 15 September 2015 21: 42 New
        0
        In 1918, at age 14, he was admitted to the Communist Party (RCP (b)) with the right of consultative vote. At the end of December 1918 he was enlisted in the Red Army. In 1919 he studied at the training courses for command personnel in Moscow. At the end of the year, he was assigned to the army as an assistant platoon commander. He participated in battles on different fronts of the Civil War, was wounded, shell-shocked. In October 1920 he was sent to Moscow to take command courses. In February 1921 he prematurely graduated from the Higher Rifle School in the department of regiment commanders. In March 1921 he took command of the 23rd reserve rifle regiment of the 2nd reserve rifle brigade of the Oryol Military District, then was appointed commander of the battalion at the front
        Well, not only did I serve in CHON, once in 17 years I was appointed to command the regiment, and secondly, Soloukhin did not like Communists too much to be objective. And when he lived under the shit democracy, he would have changed his mind, as did Zinoviev.
  • sledge
    sledge 15 September 2015 07: 42 New
    +3
    "History is only a version of the events that happened in our interpretation" Napoleon Bonaparte
    Nothing to add
  • evil partisan
    evil partisan 15 September 2015 07: 44 New
    +2
    Moscow International University (MUM
    Add one letter to the name of this "university" - "U" (it turns out MUMU ...) and send the inspector there. Gerasim ....
    1. Seryoga DV
      Seryoga DV 15 September 2015 08: 08 New
      +2
      Moscow University of International Mind?
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 15 September 2015 07: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: ava09
    The first and third in the figure - for sure ... And in the center - I doubt that the Trotskyists too stubbornly, having come to power, magnified it. One monument from the "democrat" Tsereteli what is it worth?

    Tsereteli pile monument Columbus. And when the Americans sent him to his mother in a quiet boat, Columbus sawed off his head and put Peter on. Real contemporary art.
    1. Weyland
      Weyland 15 September 2015 20: 23 New
      0
      Thanks for the info! And I kept wondering why Peter was dressed in mods of two centuries ago (at that time)!
  • evil partisan
    evil partisan 15 September 2015 07: 49 New
    +3
    Knight of the Commander Cross "For Merit to the Republic of Poland"
    I propose to adopt a law on the deportation of Russian citizens who were awarded (and accepted these awards) with state awards of countries hostile to Russia, to the territory of these countries.
  • VeryBravePiggy
    VeryBravePiggy 15 September 2015 07: 51 New
    +1
    Fine. To shoot the whole gang for the lack of honor and common sense.
    It can be carried out immediately, but always in the form of the NKVD, from a TT pistol, until the 50th issue. This will be historical justice.
    A gathering of macaques undertook to judge the lion. Go nuts.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 08: 29 New
      +2
      The problem is that offers like yours don't lead to anything. The death penalty is prohibited in the Russian Federation, there is no corpus delicti. So there are people in their own right. And your personal opinion, even if it is true three times, is worth little, isn't it?
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 15 September 2015 10: 51 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        even if it is fair three times,

        Everyone has it-OWN understanding of justice .....
      2. Aleksander
        Aleksander 15 September 2015 10: 51 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        even if it is fair three times,

        Everyone has it-OWN understanding of justice .....
    2. MrK
      MrK 15 September 2015 23: 33 New
      0
      Quote: VeryBravePiggy
      A gathering of macaques undertook to judge the lion.

      I agree. I will supplement it.
      It is not Stalin who is afraid of them, but we Russians when we become ourselves. It is not Stalin who pours their shit and imported Russophobes. What to Stalin before their slops? Who are they and who is Stalin? It's not even funny ... Slandering Stalin, forgive me for the rude, but exact word, they “lower” our Russian (Soviet) ancestors, grandfathers and great-grandfathers, and through this we too. They, today, convince us - our ancestors were not the victors of Europe, they were not !!! They were Stalin's slaves. And they were supposed to be slaves of the Germans or Jews, but those under Stalin did not break off.
  • avia12005
    avia12005 15 September 2015 07: 52 New
    +2
    Wretched they all ... And the spirit, and the mind.
    Yuri Afanasyev died. The author of the definition of "aggressive and docile majority"
    http://vz.ru/society/2015/9/14/766805.html
    1. evil partisan
      evil partisan 15 September 2015 09: 08 New
      0
      Quote: avia12005
      The author of the definition of “aggressively obedient majority”

      And also the term "Stalin-Brezhnev Supreme Council".
  • atos_kin
    atos_kin 15 September 2015 08: 05 New
    0
    All who defame the history of their country spread mold spores to weaken and destroy it. You can deal with mold by simple airing (brains). There is work for the FSB.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 08: 34 New
      0
      But you prove that they discredit the history of the country! And not just in words, but motivated, with documents in hand. You can not! So you just let off steam, and it is cheap. And the FSB will not do this. Again, our Russian - that someone came and did for us. Here's a tiny piece of wrong expose, eh? And tell me - here lies! And this statement should not be based on the memoirs of the grandmother, but on serious documents. But there is no such thing, so how many pairs do not let out, and the camel, as it was going, will go. It turns out that apart from GAV-GAV you can not do anything, And for a real patriot this is not enough!

      It is strange that some put a minus for it. Where is the wrong here, juggling, the substitution of the thesis? And GAV-GAV - he wrote about himself to himself on the profile.
      1. atos_kin
        atos_kin 15 September 2015 09: 57 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        But you prove that they

        There is no need to prove anything, because it is impossible to cite at least ANYTHING that has been DONE and not said by these pygmies in comparison with the results of the work of the greatest statesman, who they are trying to discredit and not only him in the memory of the people of the country. In the history of the country from them there is NOTHING except the stink.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 September 2015 10: 33 New
          +3
          That you think so, but others need to prove. You say words, and words are air. And they will answer you that the greatest states in peacetime without war are not so easy to disappear from the world map, and what will you say to that? They betrayed, deceived ... And it turns out that the “there” is all clever, but we are fools, which cannot be a priori. So, believe me, you need to prove if you want to be taken seriously.
          1. atos_kin
            atos_kin 15 September 2015 17: 20 New
            0
            Something I don’t remember when under I. Stalin "the greatest states in peacetime without war were so easy to disappear from the world map." They blasphemed the USSR only because it is associated with the name of Stalin. They, like you, I’m not going to say anything, have no economic benefit for the development of Russia from this MUM, and there is a lot of harm. I do not ask to take me seriously. Serious just at the MUM call themselves elite.
      2. dmb
        dmb 15 September 2015 11: 01 New
        +5
        And you, the most respectable, will not succeed with evidence for one simple reason. Unlike the illiterate victims of the Unified State Examination, Yezhov already, who are enrolled in the “Trotskyists”, these bastards are literate and have evidence of specific mistakes and crimes committed by Stalin and his entourage (and according to the Soviet laws that were in force then). That's just they aim not personally at Stalin, but at socialism. Stalin's past, historical figure no more. But they deftly use his mistakes and crimes to preserve the power of capital. Every time people begin to think about the reasons for the increase in the number of billionaires in Russia and the decline in the standard of living of the population, power through the mouths of their heralds, like the Starikovs. so Svanidze says: "Do you want a Gulag?" or "Do you want Madana?". And the citizens shut up and vigorously rejoice at the successes of Sechin and Usmanov. It’s just that the power for one category is used by the Stalin’s bugaboo, and for the other, the Maidan’s bugaboo, and there is also the Chubais’s bugaboo, which unites the vast majority. this sniffed this bogeyman personally.
  • Logos
    Logos 15 September 2015 08: 35 New
    -19
    between Stalin and Hitler you must certainly put an equal sign

    And what, it is quite possible to deliver. That Hitler, that Stalin (before the Second World War) did not accept the Russian people and were going to destroy it precisely as a nation. The Bolsheviks, in the framework of the struggle against "great-power chauvinism," strengthened the small-town nationalism of local nations and gave them purely Russian territories (the same Donbass or Northern Kazakhstan, for example), and all Russian and national were severely suppressed (especially with regard to Russian Orthodoxy) and arranged regular and hard cleansing on a class basis, "cleaning out" all the best Russian in order to bring out a new breed of "Soviet man"

    Hitler, according to the Ost plan, planned to do roughly the same thing: to strengthen the nationalism of the non-titular nations by cutting pieces of Russian territory to them and to "clean out" the Russian people by mass repressions in order to assimilate them with the German nation in the future. Only the repressions, unlike Stalin, were planned to be carried out not according to the class, but according to the anthropological principle: it does not look like a European, pick up little things, go to the Urals or to the shooting basement

    Only the world war saved the situation, in which Stalin and his entourage realized that they could not rely on the mythical proletariat and the no less mythical "Soviet people", but only on the Russians, and therefore the former national policy of oppressing the Russian nation was curtailed and politics began Russian revival

    Anyway, I ask you to note that Hitler had the same socialism in Germany, only national socialism, and international socialism in the Union, the difference between which differed only in the fact that the Germans divided "their" and "aliens" on a national basis and the Bolsheviks - according to the class.

    Here, it would be nice to draw a parallel to England and the USA before the coupe, but there generally imperial chaos was going on at the time with the extermination and addiction to the drug (literally) of entire nations, while these atrocities were accompanied by clever conversations about humanism and human rights
    1. Logos
      Logos 15 September 2015 16: 10 New
      0
      There are cons, no objections. True eyes prick or what?)
    2. evil partisan
      evil partisan 15 September 2015 19: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Logos
      And what, it is quite possible to deliver.

      For this, you can put ... winked
  • V.ic
    V.ic 15 September 2015 08: 48 New
    +2
    Ah yes mongrel, something "froze"! It's time to put on a chain! You can even one, all mentioned in this article.
  • Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 15 September 2015 09: 11 New
    +1
    The walruses are swooping down again. They have already lifted everyone with their blatant lies. Russian Jews have no sense of self-preservation. This is bad for them, but the situation needs to be changed!
    Well, God will wait for the "pogroms", creatures ...
  • Million
    Million 15 September 2015 09: 37 New
    +1
    5 column was under Stalin, but only he successfully fought with it, and the current rulers flirt
  • Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 15 September 2015 09: 57 New
    +13
    There probably without MGER (shelter gambling establishments) could not have done. Well, but on this issue more specifically: no matter how JV Stalin was trying to pour mud, it will not work, his words and deeds speak for themselves. For example:

    “We must build our economy so that our country does not become an appendage of the world capitalist system, that it is not included in the general system of capitalist development as its subsidiary enterprise, so that our economy does not develop as an auxiliary enterprise of world capitalism, but as an independent economic unit ”Relying mainly on the domestic market, relying on the link between our industry and the peasant economy of our country.”
    I.V. Stalin 1925

    Source: http://www.great-country.ru/

    Well, now read the report of Academician S. Glazyev, Advisor to the President: http://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/140998/

    Don't you see anything similar? Everything returns, our country has no alternative. JV Stalin, as if looking into the water. I respect him and his children and grandchildren teach him to respect. And the fact that the school is cared for at school is nothing more interesting for youthful inquisitive minds.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 10: 48 New
      -1
      But this is just a mistake! Not in 1925, but in 50 and later this thesis was wrong. It is clear that it is impossible to become a raw materials appendage. But in the conditions of nuclear missiles, the only salvation from destruction is not the number of warheads, but ... close economic integration! Otherwise, an unbridled arms race and ... a less developed economically country will lose! And so ... no one will throw at their bomb factories, consumers of Coca-Cola and jeans are “our people”!
      1. I am
        I am 15 September 2015 11: 54 New
        0
        You tell all this to comrade Gaddafi and the people of Libya. Even as they will. There will not be only one case - if we are stronger and smarter than them.
  • Selevc
    Selevc 15 September 2015 09: 58 New
    +7
    After all, the “trial” of the person in the history of the country is nothing but a bunch of socio-political noisy Lilliputians, who once again try to shout enough to satisfy each other, does not remind ... And again the classic question is relevant: “Who are the judges?”
    Yes, really - and who are the judges? Stalin can be compared with all the leaders of Russia-the USSR in the 20th century, as they say based on the results of their activities ... Stalin’s methods were very cool - but when they usually yell about it in the 5th column, they are always silent about something else ... As they say, they always say And without saying B ... That is, we are presented with a half-truth that is worse than a lie !!! Namely, they do not say in what political context (in what external conditions) the Stalin reforms were carried out !!! After all, the rest of the world did not expect Russia which, after the Civil and Intervention, simply stood on the edge or already fell into the abyss ...
    The activity and the very figure of Stalin can be compared with his political opposite - MS Gorbachev ...
    Here are just some thoughts on this:
    As it was under Stalin: The USSR was attacked by the strongest state at that time, which subjugated almost the whole of Europe ... The enemy was standing near the walls of the capital and near Leningrad - to a person little familiar with the Soviet (Stalinist) system it might seem that everything - the war was lost ... But let's listen to the veterans - and they they say - We knew that we would win !!! Like this ? This is illogical, this is not a systematic European approach !!! People dying of hunger in Leningrad knew that they would win? Hitler believed that he had already won - after all, the Soviet army suffered such terrible defeats in the 41st ... But no - Russia is standing !!! Of course the enemy was furious, but in the end he was defeated and defeated !!!
    We can say that the country lived according to Stalin - it was he - the leader put the whole matter so that no one even thought about the defeat of their homeland !!! The enemy was very strong but the Stalinist system was even stronger !!!
    And what do we have after the death of Stalin: 1. The USSR carried out a technical revolution. 2. The USSR twice restored its economy from ruins and became the strongest state on the planet. 3. In the USSR, a completely clear educational system was in place, science, medicine, culture, etc. were booming. etc. 4. The USSR surrounded itself with allied countries ... 5. The authority of the USSR was unquestioned throughout the world ...
    As it was under Gorbachev: Many people know this firsthand ... But if you step aside from emotions, you can say that Gorbachev’s career is the brightest way for a spy in power ... Gorbachev came to power with a still strong country, with a dilapidated but still working Stalinist system, with the full support of the people ... But what did he do? He declared ECONOMIC REFORMS but committed POLITICAL !!! After a very short time of simulating activity
    took up the Union Treaty - that is, a case completely unrelated to the economy !!! It's just as ridiculous as skiing on the asphalt or go fishing in the desert !!! As a result of criminal manipulations with the Union Treaty, the USSR was destroyed !!! And then went the process of direct destruction of the country ended with a putsch theater with a mole-clown in the title role !!! But were there any serious attempts at economic reform? I don’t remember something !!! Further, the flight of the mole and his family over the hill and rewarding him with enemies under the guise of all sorts of international awards !!!

    Bottom line: 1. Gorbachev left the destroyed and divided country. 2. Gorbachev sowed the seeds of trouble in the minds of entire generations. 3. The Soviet space completely degraded in terms of economics, science, medicine, education, etc. 4. The post-Soviet space was surrounded by overt or covert enemies ...
    The overall result is as follows: I wish the Russian people to live, think and act according to Stalin !!! And the worms from the 5th column burn in hell and be damned by their descendants forever !!!
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 10: 40 New
      +1
      All right One thing is not clear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do? What he did not have such that he would not have in the USSR? What Tukhachevsky, Malenkov, "Shepilov joined them", Khrushchev did not have ... Had everything, hadn’t he? And the power and money ... Or got more than they had?
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 15 September 2015 14: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so? What did he not have that which he would not have had under the USSR?

        The motives are obvious ... The Soviet elites revolved in the Stalinist system and enjoyed its privileges ... But these privileges were limited - the higher the official went up the ranks, the stricter the restrictions ... For example, an official at the ministerial level in the West is almost always a man at the rich man's level -millionaire ... And in the USSR it was impossible to possess large personal property ... That is, there were no cars, cottages and money, but it was impossible to show it off and it was often official and not its own ... But Soviet officials often visited abroad and saw all the charms of their Western colleagues ... They certainly wanted the same life ...
        We can conclude that the Soviet elite in the 60-80s revolved in the Stalinist system but wanted to bring elements of capitalism into it ... But this could not be done without destroying the Stalinist system - which was done at the end of the 80s ...
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 September 2015 15: 29 New
          0
          So everything is logical! The fish is looking for where it is deeper, and the man - where is better! This means that the USSR should also be necessarily destroyed as soon as the highest echelon officials began to go abroad. Clear. Thanks for clarifying.
      2. yuriy55
        yuriy55 15 September 2015 15: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        All is correct. One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so? What did he not have that which he would not have had under the USSR? What did not have Tukhachevsky, Malenkov, “Shepilov who joined them”, Khrushchev ... They had everything, didn't they? And power and money ... Or did they get more than they had?

        Who are you talking about now? About Stalin? Motives do what?
        Tukhachevsky? Maybe Voroshilov?
        Khrushchev?
        There is such a joke.
        Khrushchev had a dream. He walks along the alley, where monuments to Marx, Lenin, Stalin and him are erected. Each has huge letters "TK". No name, no dates. He asks God:
        - Lord! What does this mean - "TK"?
        The Lord answers him:
        - Marx is a theorist of capitalism.
        Lenin is a theorist of communism.
        Stalin is the creator of communism.
        - And I?
        - And you are aphid corn.

        These figures did not have the core of a statesman. So - retinue. Who is better, who is abominable.

        If you take the current government. She has a lot of things, but unlike Stalin, she hopes to grab onto the other side ...
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 September 2015 20: 38 New
          0
          So I say - predetermined. Stalin - one, and one in the field is not a warrior. He died and everything ... the officials went abroad and wanted to live like there. They sat down and pissed off the Union! I understand you so -yuriy55?
        2. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 16 September 2015 00: 41 New
          0
          I heard another version of this joke - Marx - theorist, Lenin - the creator, Steel - the tyrant, Khrushchev - yap of communism
      3. MrK
        MrK 15 September 2015 23: 40 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so?

        It is unfortunate that you did not understand the main motive. As far back as 1937, Stalin warned that the party would be freed from economic activity. That the parties are left with only functions: propaganda and agitation, and the selection of candidates for deputies. And he achieved this at the 19 congress.
        But to lose the ability to manage the national economic complex means to lose power. That party talkers did not forgive him. Khrushchev overturned the decisions of the 19 congress and strengthened the dictatorship of the party.
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 06: 09 New
          0
          Quote: mrark
          But to lose the ability to manage the national economic complex means to lose power.

          In the book "Power," the Old Men call it "power physics".
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    1. Glot
      Glot 15 September 2015 10: 32 New
      0
      And in my office there is a portrait of Stalin and during the audit, the lady inspector asked:
      - And who is this?


      Come on ... Is it really that bad ?! )))
      1. The comment was deleted.
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  • Uncle Joe
    Uncle Joe 15 September 2015 11: 31 New
    0
    And now the elite has decided once again to make itself known, and, judging by the materials of Tatyana Voevodina, she has chosen the usual scheme for this - gathering a liberal, God forgive, intelligentsia, whose whole conscious life is devoted to one thing - how to smear again liberal shit that period of history when the Soviet Union broke off the teeth of the then "partners". Lubricate - once, do not give about yourself - forget two. Really didn’t let you forget
    Once again, the author is trying to portray himself as a naive Chukchi youth, while “forgetting” that it is impossible to serve two masters ...

    Putin told what he was talking with Solzhenitsyn:
    "We talked about the current situation, the future of the country. For my part, I drew the attention of the writer to the fact that some of the steps that we are taking today are in many ways in tune with what Solzhenitsyn wrote."
    “But I especially want to thank you for your work for the good of Russia. You continue your activity today, you never hesitate in your views, but stick to them in your life”
    http://www.newsru.com/russia/12jun2007/solj.html

    Putin: Soviet troops in Germany - occupation forces - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvIhf1EFMWg

    “They say that Brezhnev’s time will soon return stagnant. First, in Soviet times, and even in the early 90s - I don’t want it to look like sweeping criticism - there was a lot of positive, but I didn’t I recall that the post-war Soviet leadership, the Soviet post-war leaders worked just as intensively as I or incumbent President Medvedev Dmitry Anatolyevich do, "Putin said in an interview with three Russian federal television channels.
    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/212533

    24.11.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX Putin ordered to erect a monument in Moscow to the victims of political repression.
    http://top.rbc.ru/politics/24/11/2014/54720b35cbb20f053452ddf6
  • AlexSK
    AlexSK 15 September 2015 12: 35 New
    +11
    -------------------
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 15 September 2015 13: 36 New
      -6
      If you break a couple of ribs and put a gun to your temple, you may also write a denunciation on someone. So who will be to blame for this, you or the one who holds the gun at your temple?
      1. AlexSK
        AlexSK 15 September 2015 14: 07 New
        +7
        Come on ribs. We have a neighbor, in the village he wrote voluntarily denunciations, no one clearly broke anything for the residents. And I assure you, there were a lot of such people and there are those who come out with envy or personal scores, thus, but someone is by nature a snitch.
        1. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 15 September 2015 16: 48 New
          +1
          There is such a pattern: 5% of people always steal, 5% never steal, and the remaining 90%, depending on the situation. The same pattern applies to many other aspects of human behavior. Someone is ready to knock always and with great pleasure, someone cannot be broken with a pistol at the temple, but most ordinary people who are forced to bend under circumstances.
          1. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 06: 27 New
            0
            Quote: Nikolai K
            There is such a pattern: 5% of people always steal, 5% never steal, and the remaining 90%, depending on the situation.

            This is the law of Gauss, it is the law of normal distribution or the normal law of distribution.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 16 September 2015 06: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: AlexSK
          and someone by the nature of snitches.

          By nature, we are all children of God, but in education ... very different.

    2. TOR2
      TOR2 15 September 2015 18: 27 New
      +1
      In the history of any state there are dark spots that you need to know, and accordingly draw conclusions. In the middle of the 0s, several officials openly said that 30% of convicts were for crimes that they did not commit. So far have you gone from the Gulag gentlemen liberals?
    3. vezunchik
      vezunchik 15 September 2015 19: 16 New
      0
      Who writes now both in our country and in Ukraine?
  • Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 15 September 2015 13: 57 New
    +3
    What our children teach, or the "Stalinist Trial"

    Somehow like this...
  • yuriy55
    yuriy55 15 September 2015 15: 07 New
    +3
    And in my office there is a portrait of Stalin and during the audit, the lady inspector asked:
    - And who is this?

    I had to say that grandfather ... would not be a mistake ...

    Quote: Nikolai K
    If you break a couple of ribs and put a gun to your temple, you may also write a denunciation on someone. So who will be to blame for this, you or the one who holds the gun at your temple?

    It seems that Joseph Vissarionovich himself came and broke ... But what about the king and retinue? And how to disguise your worthlessness to the authorities?

    Stalin is as great as his detractors are shallow!
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 September 2015 20: 39 New
      -1
      Great, but not understood by retinue, huh?
  • xoma58
    xoma58 15 September 2015 15: 42 New
    +1
    And what do we want from this world? It is not clear why these agents of the State Department are still walking free.
  • venaya
    venaya 15 September 2015 15: 45 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    Quote: Down House
    authorities in no way makes them political criminals!

    Lieutenant General Vlasov
    Major General Trukhin
    Major General Malyshkin
    Major General Zakutny
    Major General Blagoveshchensky
    Brigadier Commissar Zhilenkov
    Colonel Bayersky
    Colonel Neryanin
    Criminals? Or political? How to count them?


    Criminals? Or political? How to count them? - It is necessary to consider them only as state changes (or criminals), with the exception of cases of judicial errors, from which no one is ever safe from anywhere.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 September 2015 17: 20 New
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of grandmother. And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of the documents, send him to the archive to read the Pravda newspaper, the Stalin banner and pay attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies. And your child will see that his father is ... stupid. Aloud may not speak, but will cease to respect in the soul. I've already seen this ...

    Already twenty, and then more people have figured it each on themselves and put a minus - how ridiculous it is!
  • wild weld
    wild weld 15 September 2015 17: 52 New
    0
    Yes, of course, the judges of history are the most liberal of whom you could see in our country, and not whether to create a trial of them and then begin to comprehend the story. Is this our past, is it good or bad, but it is ours and there is nothing to stir it up.
  • VeryBravePiggy
    VeryBravePiggy 15 September 2015 18: 31 New
    +1
    Of course, my opinion at this point in time will not be able to influence the fate of liberal evil. It’s one thing if you call this disgrace “expression of one’s own opinion”. And do not blame, and do not punish for it. But if what they do is called a crime, spitting on our ancestors and inciting hatred (and this is just spitting on the acts of our great-grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers, causing uncontrolled aggression and provoking a person to take some sanitary measures - such as shooting rabid dogs), completely falling, if not under execution, then under imprisonment - then such coverage of the activities of Svinidzov, Goizman and other rabble is justified, useful and fair. Tolerastia does not lead to good. Today is tolerast, and the next day - peperast.
    And, a small legal remark: only the COURT has the right to judge a person and accuse him of committing CRIMES, and not a handful of renegades of a muddy nationality who have not erected anything except fecal statues in their lives. And the process in Russia is adversarial, that is, both sides should listen. Moreover, the criminal prosecution ceases with the death of the suspect / accused.
    Another attempt to shoot shit in the direction of a man to a level which neither they nor their children can ever reach.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Baloo
    Baloo 15 September 2015 20: 33 New
    +1
    Or maybe for a start the trial of Trotsky, Sverdlovsk, Kamenev, Zinoviev and other agents of influence stuck to the revolution? Remember the interview with Keresky’s grandson? Grandfather said: 12 people gathered and called Trotsky in America. And all, the February revolution took place. The ambassador of England tried to persuade the king to abdicate on the eve of the February Revolution, after February the king succumbed, instead of showing iron will. He asked to wait for the Queen of England, she refused. Sverdlov ordered the king and his family to be killed so that they would not become a symbol for the white movement.
    I am a great-grandson and grandson of “enemies of the people” and I value Stalin as a statesman who has preserved the country. The victims were often executioners themselves, as the executioners became victims. It was such a time.
    In vain specialists keep silent about the current Trotsky-Sverdlov. They need to be actively exposed and not at night, but in prime time. hi
    1. turk
      turk 15 September 2015 23: 07 New
      -3
      Quote: Balu
      I’m great-grandson and grandson of the “enemies of the people" I value Stalin as a statesman,

      My condolences to you. Nothing taught you. And no longer teach.
      Quote: Balu
      preserving the country.

      And what is this achievement?
      Quote: Balu
      It was such a time.

      This "such time" was organized by the Bolsheviks. Led by Stalin.
  • Weyland
    Weyland 15 September 2015 20: 47 New
    0
    Some forum users with foam at the mouth blame Stalin, others just as eagerly condone and claim that allwhat he was doing was right.

    Mao in 1958 proposed to evaluate Stalin’s activities as "70% of achievements, 30% of errors"(1958), especially emphasizing that the question of Stalin is not only a Soviet one.
    Interestingly, the Communist Party of China's official assessment of the role of the Great Helmsman in history absolutely the same: Comrade Mao had 70 percent correct and 30 percent wrong.

    On the one hand, it allows you to fix any errors - and on the other, try to water Mao with mud there! Not so long ago, one tried it: see http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/04/24/mao/. They have such a 293rd article in the Criminal Code, like our 282nd ...
    1. VeryBravePiggy
      VeryBravePiggy 15 September 2015 20: 58 New
      +2
      Mistakes happen at all. And I’m not going to justify or blame Stalin. But to doubt the greatness and significance of this man can only be a complete nerd.
      The question is the constant and peremptory slopping of the Soviet past, where does all this trash (pseudo-intellectual pseudo-elite) come from. Moreover, they were not brought up in the gateway, but received all possible and impossible benefits from that state, which they now mercilessly criticize and accuse of all mortal sins.
      1. turk
        turk 15 September 2015 21: 33 New
        -3
        Quote: VeryBravePiggy
        and those who received all possible and impossible benefits from that state

        And why did you decide that is the maximum? Maybe people from a normal state would get many times more? Have you thought about this? Think it over.
    2. turk
      turk 15 September 2015 21: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: Weyland
      Stalin as "70% of achievements, 30% of mistakes" (1958),

      You vainly compare Mao with Stalin. Stalin is more appropriate to compare with another Chinese "friend of the USSR" (at first), Chiang Kai-shek. How many percent of errors did he count? But not at all. If he had not fled to Taiwan under the protection of the Americans, the Chinese would have torn him to pieces. Because smart people.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 16 September 2015 01: 01 New
        0
        Quote: turk
        Stalin is more appropriate to compare with another Chinese "friend of the USSR" (at first), Chiang Kai-shek.

        Stalin and Mao, unlike Chan, won.
        By the way, why not even compare Mao with Chiang Kai-shek? Vladimirov, our ambassador in 1942-45 in a "special area" (that is, under the control of Mao) wrote that the biographies and character are very similar - to the extent that the current marriage was both 4m! (see P.P. Vladimirov, "Special Region of China")
        1. turk
          turk 16 September 2015 20: 35 New
          -1
          Quote: Weyland
          Stalin and Mao, unlike Chan, won ...

          You are mistaken. And Chan won. The Japanese. But then, after the war, because Already changed his mind about building communism, Mao was overthrown with the help of the USSR. Because Mao promised to build communism in China.
          1. Weyland
            Weyland 17 September 2015 16: 03 New
            0
            Quote: turk
            And Chan won. The Japanese.


            How was Jodl, when signing the surrender, asked about the representative of France: "And what these - did they beat us too? " laughing
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 15 September 2015 21: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: turk

    In the same 1938. from 638509 people 535960 people arrested were arrested for counter-revolution + 57366 more people. for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter). Total 93% (!!!) of counter-revolutionaries and anti-advisers. And only 7% of "criminals". And how many of these "criminals" were CHIR?
    And in the same year 328618 people. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). was shot. Only shot. And how many died later in the camps?
    ..............
    However, the majority of people like you on this site, as I can see. Right hotbed of evil spirits.


    Dear, look at these numbers (census of the USSR):
    1929 152 000 000
    1937 162 500 000
    1939 168 524 000
    1941 196 716 000
    1946 170 548 000
    1951 182 321 000
    1959 208,800 000

    Now think. These are figures of official statistics. This is not a certificate from the Ministry of Internal Affairs-NKVD, this is not data for Khrushchev, this is not an extract from Solzhenitsy. THIS IS OFFICIAL STATISTICS. Taken by me from our potential enemies (I did not mention): from Wikipedia.
    So, we are thinking: 37, 39,41 year, population growth 34 million. People (according to the liberals) are imprisoned, executed by millions, and in this situation (for example, an average family lives, imagine yourself in this situation), they rivet new children increase fertility - 34 mln for 4 of the year (dig-pound !!!) Are they, idiots? After all, they can come and close at any time, send hz where or to shoot. Yes, according to your figures, there was no one to give birth to, a million were shot, another 2 million were shot, guarded, etc. From whom did women give birth? Explain to me - how is this so? I am a little familiar with logic: so this is illogical.
    Maybe we now need to start grabbing everyone, jailing, shooting - and in 2020 the Russian population will be under 180 million - that’s how it turns out that the demography needs to be corrected!
    Did they give birth from fear?
    Yeah, I’m representing a typical conversation in the kitchen: we have five children, but maybe they will shoot me tomorrow (almost all the neighbors were shot or transplanted after all), let's get another one. You, as the wife of an enemy of the Soviet regime, will easily grow them.
    Do you understand how this sounds crazy? But this situation should have happened in every average family. Population growth does not come from repression, but from stability and confidence in the future. See statistics. And compare it with 91-2015 year. At least in Russia and Belarus. And ask yourself: why so ??
    1. turk
      turk 15 September 2015 21: 10 New
      -3
      Quote: S_Baykala
      So, we are thinking: 37, 39,41 years, population growth 34 million.

      Think less. And imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. what then would be population growth.
      Another demagogue. A fan of moving arrows HZ where.
  • S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 15 September 2015 21: 28 New
    0
    Quote: turk

    Think less. And imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. what then would be population growth.
    Another demagogue. A fan of moving arrows HZ where.


    Categoricality, intransigence, obstinacy, etc. Or youth, or ...
    imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. If my grandmother had ........ If you weren’t on this site, it would have been much cleaner.
    Lover translate arrows HZ where
    Yes, I am like this..... recourse
    1. turk
      turk 15 September 2015 21: 35 New
      -2
      Quote: S_Baykala
      If my grandmother had ........

      So you think about what would have happened if he had been. And for one thing and think about the homeland. What could it be without hunger, executions, and other Bolshevik crap.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 15 September 2015 22: 11 New
        -4
        And Sikorsky would not have left, and Kartveli, and Seversky, and ......... would have constituted the honor and glory of Russia!
  • LMaksim
    LMaksim 16 September 2015 00: 07 New
    +2
    He studied at school since the early 90s, graduated in 2002m. At the lessons of history, we were given a one-sided assessment of the historical events that were associated with the personality of Stalin. Very often it was negative and unreliable. I was fond of history and therefore could easily study several different sources and draw conclusions.
    As for my personal opinion, I believe that Stalin came to the helm of the USSR at the right and very difficult time for the country. Of course, something was done wrong, but overall it was worth it. We are now talking in Russian. And the current presidents make mistakes. Under Stalin, there were not only repressions, but large-scale projects were being implemented! But they try to hush up about it, now it is inconvenient. I believe that if Putin or Medvedev led the country, the Great Patriotic War would be played. Medvedev would have returned only from fishing at 44m.
  • serverny
    serverny 16 September 2015 02: 36 New
    +1
    Eh, what a vile person this turk is, he is absolutely consciously openly lying and distorting facts. And when it is pressed against the wall, it merges quietly, because cannot acknowledge a mistake by the baseness of the soul.

    I went to look for the "black list" function in the settings, there are no forces of mine to read his Russophobic nonsense.
  • Buffalo
    Buffalo 16 September 2015 21: 13 New
    0
    The name of I.V. Stalin (Dzhugashvili) - like a litmus test, allows you to judge a person by his reaction to the name of the great leader of the USSR.
    Both families of my grandfathers were dispossessed at one time. I never saw my father’s parents, they died in 1934. And my maternal grandfather never spoke badly about Stalin, he fought himself, his older brother (he died in the very first battle, in 1942), and my grandfather’s eldest son. Before the war, my grandfather was under investigation, on a false charge. When the Germans attacked, he was released, but being under investigation did not go away and he ended up in a penal company.
    Immediately to the front line, near Mtsensk. In the first battle, only one in three had a rifle in their hands. After the first battle, everyone already had rifles (2/3 of the soldiers died in the first battle). Next - the environment, hunger, a breakthrough to their own. Soon after leaving the encirclement, the grandfather was heavily shell-shocked and sprinkled with earth from the burst of a heavy howitzer shell. A fighter of another part leaving the encirclement stopped smoking on the side of the road and accidentally noticed his hand sticking out of the ground and moving his fingers on it. Pulled out, saved. So, the grandfather never spoke badly of Stalin and always treated him with the greatest respect.
  • Buffalo
    Buffalo 16 September 2015 21: 42 New
    0
    There was such a front-line intelligence officer who captured more than 79 "languages", Hero of the Soviet Union, Vladimir Vasilievich Karpov. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%BB
    %D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%
    D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
    I happened to meet him at the Aviation Museum, in Monino, near Moscow, in his last years of his life. And later I read his books (after the war he served in the KGB, was a writer, and at the end of my life I became Secretary of the Writers' Union). Before the war, he, a student of a military school, was repressed. He was convicted and sat in a camp. But, during the war, he asked to the front and his request was granted. V.V. Karpov had a personal interest in sorting everything out to the smallest detail, regarding repressions, and he did it! Read his book about I.V. Stalin, "Generalissimo" - you will not regret it!
    http://royallib.com/book/karpov_vladimir/generalissimus.html
    Video:
    http://www.izstali.com/films/2-general.html
    About V.V. Karpov:
    http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=1019
  • iouris
    iouris 16 September 2015 23: 25 New
    0
    Everyone present here will also be judged. The school will not teach them anything else.
  • Abracadabrus
    Abracadabrus 18 September 2015 20: 02 New
    0
    Well, if SUCH people scolded Comrade Stalin, then apparently Joseph Vissarionovich was a really good ruler.
  • delvin-fil
    delvin-fil 19 September 2015 23: 46 New
    0
    Quote: turk
    Take an interest in the Internet.

    Great Psaki style argument!
  • tor978
    tor978 22 September 2015 15: 00 New
    0
    The fact that Stalin restored the country from the ruins of the civil war, and then after the Second World War, I think few people care about. And if the question arises whether to send your child to such a university, even suddenly for free, where they try to make a good ruler a tyrant, then in no case will I ever give it back. We would also recall the reign of Ivan the Terrible and compare with the "enlightened" Europe of that time.