What our children are taught, or "The Trial of Stalinism"

Educational institutions of the Russian Federation celebrated the onset of the new school year in different ways. In some, they switched to updated educational programs, in others they solemnly opened new educational buildings and received the necessary equipment and training materials for the full educational process, and in the third they looked for alternative reasons for celebration. Moreover, it happened that the alternative was clearly off scale ...

In the newspaper "Tomorrow"The editor-in-chief of which is Alexander Prokhanov, a writer and public figure, published material from Tatiana Voevodina last weekend, which reported that on September 3 a very specific event was held at Moscow International University (MUM). This event, dedicated to the beginning of the school year at the university, was called the meeting of the initiative group for the "Public trial of Stalinism and the crimes of the power of the Soviet period." Nothing more ...

The meeting “MUM members” was conducted with such enthusiasm that in the framework of the “trial” it was decided to create as many as several working groups, each of which had to focus on certain facts of “crimes of the most bloodthirsty dictators”. One group presented to the “court” materials on the legal examination of the “criminal” orders (decrees) of the Stalin period, another was supposed to be the prosecutor for the Stalinist repressions, the third was on the same accusatory line against Stalin for “crimes against the economy, science and culture”, and the fourth was to systematize all the material in order to prepare a course of lectures for students (and even schoolchildren), as well as a selection of articles and notes about the “bloody Stalinist gebni” for the media and the Internet. t-resources.

All the familiar faces took Stalin to judge at MUM, they are also the leading “experts on the bloody gebne”: Nikolai Svanidze (I think, he doesn’t need a special presentation), Yuri Pivovarov (head of the Institute of Scientific Information on Social Sciences, during which a large-scale fire lost the scientific and literary heritage stored in the library of INION, involved in the case of negligence) Leonid Gozman (President of the Union of Right Forces, not long ago, who identified the activities of SMERSH with the activities of the Nazi SS units, he (Gozman) ex-representative of the Rosnano elite), Lev Ponomarev (executive director of the movement “For Human Rights”, author of the idea of ​​creating the Congress of the Russian intelligentsia “condemning the annexation of the Crimea”, Commander of the Cross of Commander “For Services to the Republic of Poland”, awarded on the basis of a decree of Lech Kaczynski in 2010 year), Igor Chubais (the brother of the very same ... he expressed his admiration for the Ukrainian Maidan and declared the illegitimacy of the Russian authorities), etc.

This, by the way, is the statement of I. Chubais about "illegitimacy":

So, these gentlemen gathered at the university to once again indulge in ecstasy from the fact that they can afford not only to "judge" Stalinism, but also to create a course of lectures and other "scientific materials" on the basis of their gatherings, which later again flow into Russian schools and universities.

And what kind of a MUM is this, in which a wonderful in all respects Kompashka is going to, well, not able to calm down in any way, without building another “epic” about how Stalin covered everything with “corpses”, about “one rifle for three” , that “the Allies saved the USSR perishing”, etc, etc, etc ... And MUM is a very interesting institution of higher education that will celebrate its 25 anniversary next year. What is it interesting? - Well, at least by the fact that the decision to open it was made in 1991 by the presidents of the USSR and the USA, Mikhail Gorbachev and George Bush Sr.. You must admit that not every university in Russia can boast that the decision on its creation was made by the head of state after a conversation with the head of another state ... The first president of MUM was Gavriil Popov (the first mayor of Moscow), who formulated, as much as possible, the “elitism principle” of the university , today having the status of autonomous.

On the the official website University "principle of elitism" voiced in the framework of the "mission of the university":
The mission of the university is to implement the principles of elite higher education for the preparation of highly qualified specialists engaged both directly in business and in creating favorable social and political conditions for its development.
The mission of the university is based on three basic principles: elitism, internationalism, focus on business development.
The International University in Moscow is an elite education, an elite composition of teachers and students, elite career prospects of graduates.

К elite teachers elite universities include (relate), for example, such people as Yuri Luzhkov, who was once dismissed from the post of mayor of Moscow with the wording “due to loss of confidence” (apparently, the elite level of Yuri Mikhailovich still made itself felt ...); Gennady Burbulis, whose elitism manifested itself almost immediately after a decision was made to create a Soviet (Russian) -American university, namely in December 1991, during the preparation of the so-called Belovezhsk agreements on the collapse of the USSR, Vasily Popov, whose elitism, judging by everything, inherited from his father (President of the MUM and the ex-mayor of Moscow) Gavriil Popov.

And now elite I decided once again to declare myself, and, judging by the materials of Tatiana Voevodina, I chose for this a familiar scheme - a liberal collection, God forgive me, intelligentsia, in which all conscious life is devoted to one thing - how to smear that liberal with crap again period storieswhen the Soviet Union broke the teeth of the then "partners." To smear - once, not to give about yourself - to forget two. Forget really did not give ...

Discussion of the “trial of Stalin” by those who experience a permanent orgasm from this should be left to psychiatric specialists. After all, the “trial” of a person in the history of the country is nothing else but a gathering of sociopolitical noisy liliputians, trying once again to shout enough, satisfying each other, does not resemble ... And again, the classic question is: "Who are the judges?"

It is much more important that in the near future on the shelves of school and university libraries can appear again "works", adopted to call a derivative of Soros's literature. - Literature that the Soviet Union is an “empire of evil”, that between Stalin and Hitler one should certainly put an equal sign, that everyone repressed in 30-40-e has been “somehow wrong” rehabilitated, that Russians need to repent before "Partners" for the fact that the Russians have not yet trample down the portraits of Stalin along with the portraits of the warlords of the era of the Great Patriotic War (after all, the war was won, of course, only by General Frost and Marshal Lend-Lease ...).

It would seem that for heresy? .. These "judicial" lectures in any universities will not fall, because our Ministry of Education and Science will not miss the new pseudo-historic pearls in educational institutions. Well, yes, yes ... And how do you like that (information from the MUM site):

The International University in Moscow has been recognized as an effective university for the fourth year in a row. 15 June 2015 The Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation announced the completion of data analysis as part of the monitoring of the quality of educational activities of universities. The international university in Moscow exceeded the threshold values ​​for monitoring indicators, as well as in the three previous monitors of the Ministry of Education and Science (May 2014, November 2013, and December 2012) and entered 2015 in the number of effective universities in the Russian Federation.

"Courts" of domestic historical personalities, the lectures of Mr Bykov and Makarevich, "deifying" everything that could lead to the rejection of Crimea from Russia, the organization of meetings of the American Ambassador J. Tefft with university students, lectures on the "achievements" of Gorbachev's restructuring, - by In all likelihood, this, in the opinion of the Ministry of Education and Science, is the effectiveness of educational activities in the country. But dozens of the oldest, for example, pedagogical universities in Russia are closed, being recognized by the same Ministry of Education as ineffective ... Or, closed educational institutions (universities) of the Russian Federation also had to invite Svanidze, Makarevich and Tefft for efficiency and elitism, not forgetting to administer justice more often. Stalinism and bloody gebney? ..

Comments

[S_Baykala]

He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances, I have not heard of a single repressed person. Although 15-20 years ago it was very fashionable to have a repressed relative. And in Moscow or St. Petersburg, apparently, every second "bloody gebnya" repressed (sarcasm). Get out of Moscow, otherwise it’s dangerous there, they’re suddenly repressed.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: S_Baykala

I’ve never heard of any repressed friends.

Not so simple with repression. Not all of them were Stalinist.

[Glot]

No, in Moscow, too, it seems that there was nothing to hear about. I talked with my grandmother when she was still alive, about whether there were in the 30s, 40s the very "terrible repressions" about which they shout at all? And there was this conversation in the 90s. The grandmother said that she had not heard of anything of the kind and that none of her relatives, friends, acquaintances and colleagues had been arrested or anything like that.
And my grandmother, consider the witness of that era was.
So who will I believe? )))
Well, and about all these dirty saliva from any abomination to our past flying, I can say one thing.
They, all these dirty tricks, break our brains BUT to our children, these are our children, and only from childhood we can give the correct concepts about what is what and who is who. And if we do this, in the future they will not be guilty of the vile tales of any dirty public. Children, our future, the future of our Country, educate them correctly. In order not to lose this Country and its past !!!

[kalibr]

You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of grandmother. And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of the documents, send him to the archive to read the Pravda newspaper, the Stalin banner and pay attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies. And your child will see that his father is ... stupid. Aloud may not speak, but will cease to respect in the soul. I've already seen this ...

[Glot]

You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of the grandmother.

Well, ooh, my grandmother, thank God, did not write memoirs. ))) And by the way, she did not suffer from a special passion for the Communists)), she was a normal, adequate person.
And of course, I did not give any knowledge to my child only in her words, but, prompting what you can read, and what and whom you can trust and who should not, I gave thanks to God. Otherwise, time will tell.
Well, if you bring up your children on the opuses of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, well, then it is clear that you and who. At least for me ...

[Fight cat]

why, on the opuses of these comrades, the NKVD archive is enough, for two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot. Documented data. On average, in a year, 1200 people were shot, and how many just didn’t get to the place of links like that. A normal occurrence was if 10-15% of the exiles did not reach the site. Goblin with them with Svanidze and others ...

[kalibr]

"In two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot. Documented data. On average, 1200 people were shot a year" - is this such mathematics or your hand trembled, but forgot to reread?

[turk]

Quote: kalibr

- is it such math or the hand trembled, but forgot to re-read?

Study the documents, you villain. And do not forget, in the second episode, you will most likely be the first in line. And your family members. Under Stalin, family members were viewed not as counter-revolutionaries, but as “socially alien” and “socially dangerous”. You will find them in the column "Other crimes". I wish you to wait for what you want so much.
There are statistics since 1921. Stalin actually became the head of state since 1924. How many are executed on his conscience, and how many tortured you can count yourself.
It's not like "grandma's stories". This is the official certificate of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs. Document.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

You will find them in the column "Other crimes"

Stalin actually became the head of state

[turk]

Why are you posting your anime?

[kalibr]

So, my beloved brethren, let every man be quick to hear, slow in words, slow in anger,
(Jacob 1: 19)

[VseDoFeNi]

I’ll do it at least once.

[Glot]

And what is it possible to find out?
Is this an archival document? It doesn't look like ... I can now make a similar tablet in exel and write the numbers there, and last names ...
If you cited this as some kind of documentary evidence, then this is not it, it is so, it is unclear what, where and why at all.

[turk]

Take an interest in the Internet. This is the official certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If the certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not a document, then I do not know what a document is. Then throw out your passport. Why do you need it? He is from the same source. So, unreliable, in your opinion.

[Glot]

Take an interest in the Internet. This is the official certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If the certificate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not a document, then I do not know what a document is. Then throw out your passport. Why do you need it? He is from the same source. So, unreliable, in your opinion.

Not even funny ...
You surrender to me; you haven’t seen any official documents in my eyes. )))
Here is what you dug somewhere in the vast expanses of the network, you can also dig there, so that, as Comrade Bender said, do not make yourself a fool. )))
Oops, I-II, what a nightmare to do with people ...)))

[turk]

"How many are in the eyes, all the dew of God."

[Glot]

How many are not * in the eye, all God's dew

Something is weak somehow you are doing this thing ... Well, I mean wee in the eye. )) A weak stream. You do not have prostatitis for an hour ?? )))
But in general, I think you are the meritor of MUM.
Since just registered, and immediately into this topic, and yeah, "documents" pour. Are they riveted THERE? )))

[Andriuha077]

In the previous article we examined in detail the exact figures on the number of repressed and simply convicted citizens in Stalin’s USSR. Now we will try to figure out where they grow from the roots of constantly replicating myths that hundreds of thousands of millions of human lives have been ruined.

http://red-sovet.su/post/author/pyhalov

[Comrade Bender]

Do not take the example of the publication of "documents" from the SBU and the Khokhlogabon mass media, my dear. Make a fool of yourself.

[turk]

Do not publicize your identity. Sick.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: turk

Do not publicize your identity. Sick.

Two fingers in your mouth over the toilet will save you from nausea.

[tank64rus]

Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937. 3 million Russians worked at the level of Pol Pot. This was said by Karaulov in his program, everyone was there and Yeltsin and Gaidar and Chubais and so on. He challenged you to refute, but you can see the gut is thin.

[RUSS]

Quote: tank64rus

Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937.

The main thing is that he recently voiced the GDP, and he said in another television interview that the Stalin regime was URODIC,

[turk]

Quote: tank64rus

your favorite americano liberals

Here is another Stalinist translates arrows. He is not interested in talking about almost a million shot by his idol. He likes to tell HZ about what. Just off topic.

[tank64rus]

Your essence is already clear to everyone on the site. Stalin about which you started an old record or your favorite American liberals who in the 90s killed more people than Stalin in 1937. 3 million Russians worked at the level of Pol Pot. This was said by Karaulov in his program, everyone was there and Yeltsin and Gaidar and Chubais and so on. He challenged you to refute, but you can see the gut is thin.

[kenvas]

And where are the millions of millions of executed ???

[turk]

Quote: kenvas

And where are the millions of millions of executed ???

A decent person and one is enough.
Wretch, all will be few.
799455 people executed, is it not enough?
Then, perhaps, you suggest not recalling the 632000 dead in Leningrad? Maybe this is not enough for you too?
And of the millions planted in the Gulag, do you think many returned home? You are mistaken.

[kenvas]

Read Solzhenitsyn again, only chur in the original ... The comment there is that the work does not pretend to be a historical document and is a thin work. And I don’t need to poke, we are not even familiar with you, but apparently you are not even familiar with politeness and tact. and now count the statistics of the USA how many people who were imprisoned and sentenced to death were there over the same time period, there were also about the camps and how many Japanese I was exiled and died there from 41 to 46 of the year. Nerd you are our liberal historian

[turk]

Quote: kenvas

Now count the US statistics

Why are you jumping off topic? No need to translate arrows.

Quote: kenvas

And I don’t need to poke

What remains to be done? Somehow the same must be addressed. And it is politely to appeal to individuals who consider that 799455 people. just shot fellow citizens, this is not interesting garbage, I do not consider it necessary.

[kenvas]

have I hinted somewhere that this is not interesting garbage?

[turk]

Quote: kenvas

have I hinted somewhere that this is not interesting garbage?

Hinted at.

[Oprychnik]

This number also includes criminals shot for serious crimes, their darkness was after the Time of Troubles, saboteurs who harmed the new state with all their might, traitors to the homeland who were deservedly punished by Soviet justice, who were dark, and judging by your yapping, one of their descendants, a candle factory was taken from your dad, here you are and spoil the air ...

[turk]

Quote: Oprychnik

deservedly punished by Soviet justice

Here you are. Another villain drew himself. Soon he will declare that in Leningrad, out of the 632000 dead, not all were innocent victims. Therefore, there the score is not correct.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: turk

Then maybe you will suggest not to remember 632000 dead in Leningrad? Maybe this is not enough for you too?

And, sorry, is Stalin to blame for this too? And I thought the Munich Agreement of Great Britain and France, with which they actually blessed Hitler for the war. Or do you, like "Yehu Moskvy" (or who is there from their gang?) Think that "Leningrad had to be surrendered to avoid casualties"? ..

My grandfather, the tankman, Leningrad defended, from the workshop of the Kirov factory through a breach in the wall he hit the Germans with direct fire. He had two Orders of Glory. And over the bed to death in 79, a portrait of Stalin in a full uniform hung. You would have told him about the futile sacrifices! About the fact that Stalin was guilty of the death of the blockade! ..

Sorry, but I trusted my grandfather more than all of our Svanidzam-Pivovarovs and other Makarevichs combined.

[turk]

Quote: Zoldat_A

And, sorry, is Stalin to blame for this too?

You do not shy away from the topic. The conversation was not about Leningrad.

[Fight cat]

not only Stalin was to blame, but the whole party elite, they were preparing for war for 20 years, they even helped the Nazis of a diverse spill, but in the end half of the country was lost (just do not yell that this was not half the country was lost by the brilliant commander Stalin) under Nikolashka such garbage did not have!!

[kalibr]

I modestly pointed out the error and immediately became a scoundrel? Ah-ah!

[turk]

Quote: kalibr

I humbly pointed out the mistake and immediately became a villain?

Yes, I apologize. I misunderstood you.
I can’t fix it, therefore, as a separate comment.

[MrK]

Please skip my first comment and read the second. Some kind of computer failure. respectfully

[MrK]

Quote: turk

Study the documents, scoundrel.

That's right, you scoundrel. You can’t see the numbers behind the forest, so read the history of the USSR and study the documents. In the camps up to 90% there were criminals.
Yes, there were innocently injured and even executed.
But. Respected. You simply do not know the history of the USSR. As for repression, The January plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks of 1938 openly recognized the lawlessness committed against honest communists and non-partisans, having adopted a special resolution on this subject, published, by the way, in all central newspapers. Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.), Noting "provocations on an all-Union scale, ”demanded: Expose careerists who strive to excel ... in repression. Expose the artfully disguised enemy, trying to disguise his hostility with cries of vigilance and remain in the party, seeking by means of repression to kill our Bolshevik cadres, sowing uncertainty and excessive suspicion in our ranks».
It was also openly, throughout the country, talking about the harm caused by unjustified repressions at the XVIII Congress of the CPSU (B.) Held in the 1939.
Immediately after the January plenary session of the 1938 Central Committee, thousands of illegally repressed people, including prominent military leaders, began to return from places of detention. Around 323 000 people were released from the camps. All of them were officially rehabilitated, and Stalin personally apologized to some. Well, as regards the responsibility of the NKVD, the NKVD apparatus was probably the most affected by the repressions, and a significant part was held accountable precisely for abuse of power, for reprisals against honest people. 68 000 NKVDshnikov were fired. Of these, 23 000 went to trial and received huge sentences. And from them 8 000 NKVDshnikov were shot for fabricated counter-revolutionary affairs.
And do not get hysterical because of the numbers.

[turk]

Quote: mrark

as regards repression, the January plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) of 1938 openly recognized lawlessness,

VKP (b) went to the back. Stalin, how was the head of the VKP (b) arrested and tried? It was? Not this way? Then all this is bullshit. The chatter of the Bolsheviks.
And 700000 dead, they did not care about rehabilitation.

[MrK]

I agree that you need to study the documents, scoundrel. Dear villain, you simply do not know the history of the USSR. As for the role of Stalin, who became the full owner only in the 1938 year, then the January plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.) 1938 openly recognized the lawlessness committed against honest communists and non-partisan, having adopted a special resolution on this subject, published, incidentally, in all central newspapers. Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (B.), Demanded: Expose the artfully disguised enemy, trying to disguise his hostility with cries of vigilance and remain in the party, seeking by means of repression to kill our Bolshevik cadres, sowing uncertainty and excessive suspicion in our ranks».
It was also openly, throughout the country, about the harm caused by unjustified repressions at the in the 1939 XVIII Congress of the CPSU (b).
Immediately after the January plenary session of the 1938 Central Committee, thousands of illegally repressed people, including prominent military leaders, began to return from places of detention. More than 323 000 has been released from camps.
All of them were officially rehabilitated, and Stalin personally apologized to some.
Well, as regards the role of the NKVD, the NKVD apparatus was probably the hardest hit by the repressions, and a significant part was held accountable precisely for abuse of power, for reprisals against honest people. CHECKERS BATTERING DOWN, FIRED, ARRESTED, And 8 000 was Shot, of 23 000 put on trial.
By the way, almost all the shot Chekists were to a specific ethnic group. I will list: A. Radzivilovsky; Berman B.D .; Reichman L.I .; Schneerson MB I want to ask, but you do not belong to this ethnic group? It is the heirs of this ethnos who scream today the most. You mourn about almost 800 000 executed during the 33 years - before the death of Stalin. Of which more than half were ordinary bandits and killers.
But you don’t give a damn about almost 11 million healthy Russian men who passed away from hopelessness from 93 to 2003 years. In just 10 years.
As already got these liberal pid ... Aras.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: mrark

Regarding the role of Stalin, become a full owner only in 1938 year

That is definitely someone ruining

According to the system of our Constitution, the USSR should not have a sole president, elected by the entire population, on a par with the Supreme Council, and able to oppose the Supreme Council. The collegiate president in the USSR is the Presidium of the Supreme Council, including the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council, elected not by the entire population, but by the Supreme Council and accountable to the Supreme Council. The experience of history shows that such a construction of the supreme organs is the most democratic, guaranteeing the country from undesirable accidents.
I. Stalin T.14 s.144

[Cat man null]

Quote: Uncle Joe

According to the system of our Constitution, the USSR should not have a sole president, elected by the entire population, on a par with the Supreme Council, and able to oppose the Supreme Council.

Two quotes come to mind at once: about "and there the firewood lies" and "all the animals are equal, but some are more equal"

This is the question of the fact that in the Constitution, of course, everything is correctly written .. but life - it is much richer and more diverse.

Voooot

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Cat Man Null

Two quotes come to mind at once

As well as the concept of "absolute monarchy" and Pasha number of times.

"Democratic centralism" - google to help

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Uncle Joe

"Democratic centralism" - google to help

Knock knock I'm here. Well, sho, do you support the 5th paragraph of Glazyev’s report or not?

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Knock knock I'm here

And here Eeh came, but the address was "slightly" wrong

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Uncle Joe

And here Eeh came, but the address was "slightly" wrong

Like damn, you are tired of Ankla Bensa

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Like damn, you are tired of Ankla Bensa

"Only when everyone is dead will the Great Game end." Rudyard Kipling.

These profiles and those sold to us will never leave you alone. Their main task is the destruction of Russia, as the only country that poses a real threat of destruction for them.

There is a sea of ​​poured quotes from these enclaves of all stripes and countries.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Uncle Joe

"Democratic centralism" - google to help

Yes, I remember .. from the History of the Party course, I was such a freshman ..

The principle itself is that .. lure for the people, by the way ..

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Cat Man Null

The principle itself is that .. lure for the people

Yeah, especially if implemented in practice

But the question remains: how was the sampling and measurement audit carried out, and where can I look at actually confirmed data on the presence of firewood instead of the indicated, as well as the results of measurements of the equalities?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Uncle Joe

Yeah, especially if implemented in practice

Well, so ... we think in a mirror way

Quote: Uncle Joe

But the question remains: how was the intake-measurement audit carried out,

... the girls climbed - checked

Quote: Uncle Joe

and where you can look at actually confirmed data on the presence of firewood instead of the specified

But to "look" - you have to climb yourself .. either on the fence, or in Google ..

Quote: Uncle Joe

equality results

The result of measuring equalities is strongly ..

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Cat Man Null

think the same way

Oh how ?!

But in order to "look" - you have to climb yourself

So what's stopping you? I've climbed, looked - everything is as it is written (exception is the period of the Second World War).

And if it were otherwise, then we would not have had to oppose Stalin to Lenin, hang all the dogs on Stalin, remove party members from the direct action of the Criminal Code, change the concept of “counter-revolutionary crime” in the Criminal Code into a “state crime”, carry out a “Kosygin” reform, change in the 77th constitution, and in the end to restore the post of the sole president.

strongly

And then!

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

Yeah, especially if implemented in practice

In practice, this rubbish is impossible to implement. This is something like sweet salt. Or white coal. The usual Bolshevik nonsense.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

In practice, this rubbish is impossible to implement

It is impossible to implement the binding decisions of higher authorities for lower ones with the election of all bodies and their accountability to lower ones?

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

with the election of all organs

Well, he started his organ again. Well, where in the USSR did you see the choice? Even the new collective farm chairman was represented by the district committee instructor. Then he was "chosen". Not the zootechnician Vasya, but the one represented by the instructor. And no one else.

[Uncle Joe]

They chose the one they wanted.

If someone was more influenced by the authority of authority, rather than the authority of authority, then this is the problem of the individual (or society - if such individuals turned out to be the majority), and not the system.

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

They chose the one they wanted.

Clear. And what color is black? Green or purple?

[MrK]

Quote: Uncle Joe

The collegiate president in the USSR is the Presidium of the Supreme Council, including the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Council, elected not by the entire population, but by the Supreme Council and accountable to the Supreme Council.

I do not argue. But to confirm the idea, I am sending you to the book of my colleague, A. Kurlyandchik, “Cursed SOVIET AUTHORITY” ... on Proza.ru

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

I. Stalin T.14 s.144

Do you even have your own thoughts sometimes?

[although]

"Matroskin: Mustache, paws and tail - these are my documents!
Pechkin: There is always a stamp on documents. Do you have a seal on your tail? (picks up Matroskin by the collar) Huh? No! And the mustache and ... (closes for a second with a parcel, after which he appears with a mustache) can be faked ... you can. "

and yes, I doubt that in official documents of the 53rd year the shrites were changed on a typewriter

[Weyland]

714 thousand - this is for 1937-38, "Yezhovschina". For other years - really 2 orders of magnitude less. BUT the vast majority of victims 1937-38 - old communistsmost of whom had blood on their hands. As it was said in the film "Shirley-Myrli", "these are our internal showdown - goyim do not understand! "(c)

[turk]

Quote: Weyland

BUT the vast majority of the victims of 1937-38 are the old communists,

Quote: Weyland

"This is our internal showdown - the goyim cannot understand!"

Below is a list of those shot along Aviamotornaya Street in Moscow. Out of 13 people 8 non-partisan. Yes, and 5 party members do not pull on party bones. It is understandable, in those years it was the outskirts of the city.
And there are two of the Jews. Moreover, only one of them is party. So, on this topic, too, is not necessary.

[Fight cat]

the communists themselves told you that, my great-grandfather was not a communist, was arrested in 1937, his further fate is not known in the archives does not appear. at that time he was an engineer at a flour mill, before that he had served in the Tsar’s army, during the Civil War, he was arrested twice and taken to death. A month after the arrest in 1937, the family was evicted from their home, a 5-wall wooden hut, and my grandfather lived in a dugout for another two years until he moved to relatives in the Volga region. they could not find in the archives where and how the great-grandfather was shot and buried! and in 1945 he was arrested for a bag of grain, which he picked up in the field, after harvesting one grain bag remained. The NKVD put a wand on the theft of socialist property and malicious pests and saboteurs. what the hell communists in those years, most of the executed peasants and former commanders of the Red Army and Red Army

[Fight cat]

no, this is not taking into account two years !!! those from which many still hiccup!

[Glot]

in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot. On average, 1200 people were shot per year

That's what it means to read nonsense without thinking. ))))

[kalibr]

Yes, the Fight Cat wrote clearly without thinking it over ... I agree!

[Fight cat]

excluding two years .... many faithful Stalinists always want to whiten red, and for some reason, gloss over with white blood, well, because the winners write history, isn’t it! To call the Bloody Tsar Nicholas II who signed the death penalty in a year no more than three hundred, given the fact that they fought against terrorists staging constant terrorist attacks!

[Comrade Bender]

And where did you have the opportunity to touch the archives of the NKVD? Or are these figures from "confirmed" sources, such as MUM?

[aleks 62 next]

...., in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot ...

.... Even if it is true, then there are many .... And the millions who were rotted away and killed by the liberals in the 90s do not want to count ... Those who starved to death in abandoned villages beyond the Arctic Circle and the polar islands ?? ? .... And those who died of poverty and hunger in the abandoned and devastated Zelenograd near Moscow in the early 90s ???? .... It is true that the so-called. liberals do not like to remember .... Do you remember Yegorka Gaidar ???? .... When he said that new ones would be born, one had to "be patient" ....

[Nikolay K]

Do you want to compare the suffering of those who lived in their own warm houses in Zelenograd with those who were thrown out without shelter and things in a clean field of northern Kazakhstan or Siberian forests and who literally froze if they did not have time to dig a dugout? Compare the starvation of people who imagine themselves without work, without the ability to at least hunt and thereby get a piece of bread with the problem of losing their jobs in a city located a few stops away from populous Moscow, where you could always find a job if you wanted? Yes, in the dashing 90, the overwhelming majority of the population of the country fell strongly, many enterprises did not pay salaries for months, sometimes people sold property to buy food. But these deprivations are simply incomparable with what our grandfathers and great-grandfathers survived (even those who were lucky enough not to fall under the repression machine) in the 20's - 50's of the last century

[Fight cat]

Quote: aleks 62 next

...., in two years, more than 714 thousand people were shot ...

.... Even if it is true, then there are many .... And the millions who were rotted away and killed by the liberals in the 90s do not want to count ... Those who starved to death in abandoned villages beyond the Arctic Circle and the polar islands ?? ? .... And those who died of poverty and hunger in the abandoned and devastated Zelenograd near Moscow in the early 90s ???? .... It is true that the so-called. liberals do not like to remember .... Do you remember Yegorka Gaidar ???? .... When he said that new ones would be born, one had to "be patient" ....

remind a colleague, and who raised these liberals or they came from the air !!!
for me it’s a direct policy of those same liquid Bolsheviks who play into the hands of the Anglo-Saxons !!! how many were you remember !!!

[Dart2027]

So how many were shot? In the year of 1200, or in the year of 307000? Decide first, and then teach.

[kalibr]

How is your haste to judge people, huh? "Do not judge rashly, says the Gospel and ... Monsieur Cardinal" - said D'Artagnan, didn't he? And then my children are already raised, over 40 ... they themselves will bring up and educate anyone. You just don't need to be so serious at the kitchen level, right? My grandmother told me ... and my grandfather, a hundred years at lunch! And if you go the other way, then this is exactly what you need. It is worse if the memories of relatives are dominant. We agree on this, don't we?

[Glot]

My grandmother told me ... and my grandfather, a hundred years in the afternoon! And if you go the other way, then this is just what you need. Worse if family memories dominate. In this we agree, right?

It is clear that the topic needs to be comprehensively studied, but eyewitness accounts cannot be ruled out categorically.
And these memories do not dominate in me, just when all the dregs fell out actively on people, in the 90s, charring the past, I asked and received such an answer from one of the eyewitnesses.
Perhaps if I interviewed ten to twenty people, the opinion would be somewhat different but, I asked one and was satisfied with the answer and closed the topic for myself. Actually, I especially did not open it. )))
Yes, by the way, I didn’t ask my grandfather.

[kalibr]

But to me, you advise just eyewitnesses!

[Glot]

But to me, you advise just eyewitnesses!

I ? Yes, God be with you ... I generally do not advise anyone and anything in principle. I just gave an example by answering the post "S_Baykal" and no more.
And, I seem to have never argued that there was no repression as such. I just very, very strongly doubt the liberals (and enemies) who are swollen by the hysteria of the scale of these.
That's all. )))

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Glot

if you bring up your children on the opus of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, then, then it is clear that you and who.

And if we had ALL children on the opuses of Svanidze and other Makarevichs, then there would be nothing to talk about - Russia would not exist as such from the 1991 year ...

Generally of course The list of speakers is impressive. I read and think - Breivik in 2011 didn’t wander there. His would be on such a "court" and he himself would have fun, and benefit to society. At least the Russian one.

[kashtak]

c

Quote: kalibr

And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of documents, send to the archive to read the newspaper Pravda, the Stalin banner and draw attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies.

you still need to be able to work with documents. inconsistencies often arise with an incomplete set of documents. Stalin's regime was a tough regime, I agree. But here's the question in 1941 up to a million of those with whom Stalin fought voluntarily deserted to the Nazis. and probably even more simply deserted. look through the documents to find more accurate numbers. your professor will probably show you the documents about the seizure of grain. but about the demand for "free market" trade at inflated prices to lawlessness? what about sabotage of the sowing campaign? but about the famine in several provinces? yes, local management could be illiterate or even do more harm than good. And where then was it to get competent managers? after civil then? and who after that is considered stupid?

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

up to a million of those with whom Stalin fought voluntarily ran to the Nazis.

No one "voluntarily" ran across, and the Hitlerite army occupied part of the USSR and the people were captured.
The fact that out of the millions-millions of occupied there were those who, under pain of death, agreed to serve the enemy is a property of the cowardly layman of any country.

[kashtak]

Quote: Down House

No one "voluntarily" ran across, and the Hitlerite army occupied part of the USSR and the people were captured.

yah! and eyewitnesses say the exact opposite. many went to the police and the Waffen-SS. and among them were former fists and elders. for such a full of crimes where the Nazis were not a single one. tried hard. if they were afraid they would just sit at home. although there were those who were recruited in concentration camps.

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

many went to the police and the Waffen-SS.

And many more voluntarily go racketeering bandits, they are bandits and criminals, and their attitude to the current government in no way makes them political criminals!

[kashtak]

Quote: Down House

And many more voluntarily go racketeering bandits, they are bandits and criminals, and their attitude to the current government in no way makes them political criminals!

their crimes are political killings of genocide and aiding the enemy during the war. this is no longer criminality. fighting against partisans and punitive pogroms in villages all the more.

[Down House]

Quote: kashtak

their crimes are political killings of genocide and aiding the enemy during the war. this is no longer criminality

These are all criminal crimes, because any murder is criminality, and murders for the sake of not legitimate authorities as well.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Down House

because any murder is criminality, and murder for the sake of an illegitimate government, including

Can you tell me the source of this wise thought?

[turk]

Quote: Down House

authorities in no way makes them political criminals!

Lieutenant General Vlasov
Major General Trukhin
Major General Malyshkin
Major General Zakutny
Major General Blagoveshchensky
Brigadier Commissar Zhilenkov
Colonel Bayersky
Colonel Neryanin
Criminals? Or political? How to count them?

[Down House]

Quote: turk

How to count them?

First of all, traitors and cowards!

[Weyland]

Quote: turk

Criminals? Or political? How to count them?

And those and others:
Since Article 58-1a "Treason to the Motherland" was contained in Criminal codex - criminals; since this crime is certainly political - political.

[Nikolay K]

In the USSR in 1941. there were many dissatisfied with the policies of the Soviet government, many offended by this very authority. The fishists naturally took advantage of this discontent. But the majority nevertheless understood that at that moment it was not the fate of Stalin that was being decided, but the fate of the country. And many at that moment forgot about personal insults to power and went to the front to defend themselves, their children and their homeland.

[turk]

Quote: Nikolai K

but the majority nevertheless understood that at that moment it was not the fate of Stalin that was being decided, but the fate of the country.

No need to fantasize.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

families of which are subject to arrest as families of those who violated the oath and deserters who betrayed their homeland.

Are you familiar with the definition of "arrest"?

Quote: turk

The units and subdivisions that were surrounded by the enemy selflessly fight to the last possible opportunity, take care of the material part, like the apple of an eye, make their way to their rear of the enemy troops, defeating the Nazi dogs.

And right, or would you rather raise your paws without a fight ?!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Are you familiar with the definition of "arrest"?

Of course. This is when invited to visit. Water-fed. Something like a name day. Did not guess?

Quote: Down House

or would you rather raise your paws without a fight ?!

It doesn't matter which I would prefer. It is important that the Bolsheviks repressed the families of "wrong" servicemen in the most outrageous way. True, the father of the "wrong" Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think? Why did the NKVD violate this harsh order? After all, they could be punished for it!

[Down House]

Quote: turk

True, the father of the "wrong" Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think?

And why the father of the "wrong" Khrushchev was not repressed, like many other "wrong" fathers?

[MrK]

Quote: turk

True, the father of the "wrong" Yakov Dzhugashvili was not arrested for some reason. Why do you think? Why did the NKVD violate this harsh order? After all, they could be punished for it!

Because they arrested Jacob's wife. But after it turned out that the Germans had organized a provocation against Jacob, Jacob's wife was released. But she spent a year in the camps.

[turk]

Quote: mrark

Because they arrested Jacob's wife.

Those. Father was not a defendant for Jacob? How so? Did they even know each other? Jacob with Stalin? Probably not. Therefore, the Stalin NKVD and not raked. Lucky for him.

[MrK]

The order says family. And Jacob had his own family.

[turk]

Quote: mrark

And Jacob had his own family

Examine this issue from a legal point of view.

[alicante11]

1. Commanders and political workers who, during a battle, tear off insignia and deserting to the rear or surrender to the enemy, be considered malicious deserters, whose families are to be arrested as oaths and those who have betrayed their homeland deserters.

And you do not particularly strain, this is just plagiarism, and partial. It was in such terms that the orders were drawn up on the Russian-German front in the 1915 Great Retreat. Only there they demanded simply to shoot from machine guns all who surrender, and not just the "command personnel".

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

After all, the servicemen of the Red Army were forbidden even to surrender. And the families of those who disobeyed were subject to reprisals (in fact, the man went to the army, and his family was taken hostage). If a man behaved "wrongly", it affected his family and friends.

1. Commanders and political workers, during battle tearing off insignia and deserting to the rear or surrendering to the enemy, consider malicious deserters whose families are to be arrested as families who have violated the oath and who have deserted their homeland (families of commanders and political workers may be involved in secret information owned by the father of the family? can the father of the family plan his desertion during battle in advance? Does the personality shape the surrounding social environment, and if so, what kind of environment is there in the deserter's family?)

2. Units and units that are surrounded by the enemy fight selflessly to the last opportunity (that is, until the moment when the resistance ceases to be expedient - surrender after this moment is natural)

... and deprive the families of the surrendered Red Army state allowance and help (remember the social environment in the family and add motivation)

3. To oblige commanders and commissars of divisions to immediately dismiss battalion and regiment commanders, hiding in crevices during battle and those who are afraid to lead the battle on the battlefield, demote them as impostors, transfer to rank and file and, if necessary, shoot them on the spot, putting forward brave and courageous people from the younger command staff or from the ranks of distinguished Red Army men.

And what is surprising in such an order during the period of total war?

For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.

2. Units and units that are surrounded by the enemy fight selflessly to the last opportunity (that is, until the moment when the resistance ceases to be expedient - surrender after this moment is natural)

[turk]

I understood you. Before the battle and after it, it was possible to surrender. It was impossible only during the battle. All clear.
If you notice me, I am outraged by the mention in the order of relatives. What is this if not a hostage system?

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

I understood you. Before the battle and after it, it was possible to surrender. It was impossible only during the battle

You better decipher - what exactly were you trying to say with your table about the number and structure of arrests and courts?

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

what exactly were you trying to say with your table about the number and structure of arrests and courts

For starters, this is not my table, this is the table of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. At least on the Internet, all links go to it. And you don’t need to speak for her. Everything speaks for itself there.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

For starters, this is not my table, this is the table of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Yours - You posted.

At least on the Internet, all links go to it.

Not all.

Since the age of 24, your table contains "statistics" on the number of convicts, in which, in addition to the collegium of the OGPU and the Special Meeting, there are troikas that appeared only in 37 ...

But this, in general, is not important, since even if you take the table at face value, it will only say that there was crime in the USSR, that its level was lower than in Russia, and that it was successfully fought with.

But the fact that you are trying to say this table trying to say she will not say.

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

that there was crime in the USSR, that its level was lower than in the Russian Federation, and that it was successfully fought with.

You do not tell la-la. The final figures are the same. But there are no "bases" in your tables. And in those that I posted, they are. And "Counter-revolutionary activity". And "Anti-Soviet agitation". And Article 58. So don't lie. This is all repression. And don't forget about the ChSIR (family members of traitors to the motherland). They went under other articles.
In the same 1938. out of 638509 people arrested 535960 people. was arrested for counter-revolution + 57366 more people. for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter). Total 93% (!!!) of counter-revolutionaries and anti-Sovietists. And only 7% of "criminals". And how many of these "criminals" were ChSIRs?
And in the same year 328618 people. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). was shot. Only shot. And how many died later in the camps?
In Leningrad, 2,4 people died in almost 632000 years. (Nuremberg trials). And everyone remembers. Because it's a tragedy. And the Bolsheviks in 2 years (1937-38) only shot 681692 people. And many pretend that this is normal. Don't give a damn. And some rascals even thoughtfully remark that something like "it serves them right". These are some sick individuals.
So do not blame everything on crime. And try to somehow at least seem like a decent person. At least pretend that you look like him. You should be ashamed, honestly.
However, the majority of people like you on this site, as I can see. Right hotbed of evil spirits.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

You la la don't tell

I’m not telling you a la la, but I asked a specific question, from the answer to which for some reason you are trying to escape.

But there are no "grounds" in your tables

Firstly, this is a lie - "counter-revolutionary and other especially dangerous crimes" appear in the tables, and secondly, this is irrelevant - at least until the moment you deign to clarify your message, which you tried to do with the help of your table.

This is all repression.

Of course.
Repression - (from late Lat. Repressio - suppression) - a punitive measure, the punishment applied by state bodies.
And what?

And do not forget about the CSIR (family members of traitors to the motherland). They went to other articles

By what? In what norm and in what wording is this fixed? And what does that change?

another 57366 people for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter)

Agitation - (from lat. Agitatio - setting in motion - inducing anything else), the dissemination of ideas for influencing the consciousness, mood, social activity of the masses through oral presentations, mass media.

Article 58-10. Propaganda or agitation containing a call for the overthrow, undermining, weakening of Soviet power or for the commission of certain counter-revolutionary crimes, as well as the distribution, production or storage of literature of the same content.

Sweet talk like that ...

And how many of these "criminals" were ChSIRs?

So how much, and what measures have been applied to them?

And how many died later in the camps?

Mortality in the camps exceeded the total mortality rate in the country by 0.2 ppm.

And the Bolsheviks for 2 years (1937-38gg) only shot 681692 people.

For 32 years, by court decision, in accordance with the law, 0.8 million convicts were sentenced to death - and why? (I just can't figure it out)

And many pretend it's normal

But is it not normal for a criminal to be punished in accordance with the law?

So do not blame everything on crime

What is this?


I'm still waiting for an answer to the question - what exactly were you trying to say with your table, falsified in at least one part.

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

I'm not telling you la la

You tell me. And distort the numbers. You are a sharpie, my dear.

Quote: Uncle Joe

By what? In what norm and in what wording is this fixed?

Read my comments. I already wrote about this on this thread.

Quote: Uncle Joe

Sweet talk like that ...

Yes, sweet talk. Everyone has the right to their own opinion.

Quote: Uncle Joe

Mortality in camps exceeded total mortality

It's strange to hear that from you. I expected information from you that no one was dying there at all. Who will die in paradise?

Quote: Uncle Joe

and what?

And nothing. Why doesn't it bother you? "Grounds" give you sleep at night?

Quote: Uncle Joe

by decision of the courts

What?

Quote: Uncle Joe

But is it not normal for a criminal to be punished in accordance with the law?

It all depends on what is meant by the word "law". Here the Jews, according to the German laws of those years, were also legally exiled to concentration camps. Will you argue that everything was fine there? Not worth it. Because everything was far from normal there. And the whole world recognizes this. It is very bad that the whole world does not recognize the same with regard to the "Soviet laws" of about the same years. But here everything is still ahead.

Quote: Uncle Joe

what exactly are you with your table, rigged in at least one part

You in vain attribute the table to me. And I do not need to ask questions on this topic. Contact the authors of the table. They will answer your complaints. You will be much more authoritative.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

You are a sharpie

Verbatim (like everything else)

I already wrote about this on this thread

False

Everyone has the right to their own opinion.

That's right. But opinion and agitation is warm and soft.
You cannot not know this, which means you are deliberately substituting concepts.

Who will die in paradise?

That's what happens when there is nothing to say in a case

Why not bother?

No, this is written in the Criminal Code.
Well - and why?

What?

BY THE DECISION OF COURTS - is it better to see?

It all depends on what is meant by the word "law"

A normative act adopted by the supreme body of state power in the manner prescribed by the constitution. It has the highest legal force in relation to other normative acts (decrees, resolutions, etc.). The main source of law in modern society.

Will you say that everything was fine there? Not worth it. Because everything was far from normal there

Really not worth it, since the laws of fascist Germany (as well as the Russian Empire) had nothing to do with law.

Contact the authors of the table

I ask you, and I ask you what exactly you wanted to say with these numbers - where do the authors come from?

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

A normative act adopted by the supreme body of state power in the manner prescribed by the constitution.

Remind me. how was this "state power" established?

Quote: Uncle Joe

Really not worth it, since the laws of fascist Germany (as well as the Russian Empire) had nothing to do with law.

And the Bolshevik Sovdepii, had?

Quote: Uncle Joe

what exactly did you want to say with these numbers

Stuck? How many times do you need to answer to stop the brake?

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

Remind me. how was this "state power" established?

Be kind.

And the Bolshevik Sovdepii, had?

Ага.

Stuck? How many times do you need to answer to stop the brake?

Drain counted

[turk]

Quote: Down House

there were those who, on pain of death, agreed to serve

Who you talking about? About those who obeyed order No. 270, dated August 16, 1941? Or others? After all, the servicemen of the Red Army were forbidden even to surrender. And the families of those who disobeyed were subject to reprisals (in fact, the man went to the army, and his family was taken hostage). If a man behaved "wrongly", it affected his family and friends. Here, read:
..............................
I order:

1. For commanders and political workers who, during the battle, tear off the insignia and deserting to the rear or surrendering to the enemy, shall be considered malicious deserters, whose families are subject to arrest as families who violated the oath and betrayed their homeland deserters.

Mandate all higher commanders and commissars shoot on the spot * similar deserters from the command staff.
* Without trial.

2. The units and subunits that were encircled by the enemy selflessly fight to the last opportunity, to protect the material part, as the eyeball of the eye, to break through to their backs of the enemy troops, defeating the fascist dogs.

To oblige each soldier, regardless of his official position, to demand from a superior chief, if part of him is surrounded, to fight to the last opportunity in order to break through to his own, and if such a commander or part of the Red Army instead of repelling the enemy would prefer to surrender, destroy them by all means, both ground and air **, Families of surrendered Red Army men deprive of state allowance and assistance ***.
** If by air, so is it a lie after the trial. Most likely without any trial or investigation.
*** even a worker's wages during the war could not buy much. Therefore, basically there was a distribution supply system. The deprivation of the issuance of food products according to the certificate meant, at least, malnutrition in the family of the "traitor".

3. To oblige commanders and commissars of divisions to immediately remove from their posts commanders of battalions and regiments hiding in crevices during the battle and afraid to direct the course of the battle on the battlefield, demote them as imposters, transfer to rank and file, and if necessary shoot them in place ****, putting forward in their place the brave and courageous people from the junior command staff or from the ranks of distinguished Red Army men.
**** And again, without trial.

The order to read in all companies, squadrons, batteries, squadrons, teams and headquarters.

The rate of the Supreme Main Command of the Red Army:

J. Stalin

Deputy Chairman of the State Defense Committee

V.Molotov

Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Budyonny

Marshal of the Soviet Union K. Voroshilov

Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Timoshenko
...............................................

For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.
Law in the USSR was not for everyone.

[MrK]

Quote: turk

For some reason, Stalin, as the father of the surrendered officer of the Red Army, was not arrested. Although he himself requires this in n.1.
Law in the USSR was not for everyone.

Read above, you are our mourning.

[turk]

Quote: mrark

mourning you are ours.

Am I mourning? And what should I read?

[kalibr]

I think that you understand that there are teachers, and there are teachers "masters of souls" who are able to give any material the way ... they need it. And to compete with them for a man who teaches his children from grandma's memoirs is ridiculous. Isn't it? And about the defectors to Hitler, I have in my book "Let's Die Near Moscow, or the Swastika Over the Kremlin" - I collected everything that could be from all available sources. But ... again, as such a teacher tells students, it will be imprinted in their brains. Because it is masterfully done, beautifully, for them! But, of course, there are few of them ... For better or for worse ...

[Glot]

And to compete with them for a man who teaches his children from grandma's memoirs is ridiculous. Isn't it? And about the defectors to Hitler, I have in my book "Let's Die Near Moscow, or the Swastika Over the Kremlin" - I collected everything that could be from all available sources.

Yes, it’s better to teach a child on the stories of eyewitnesses of that era, than based on alternative, fantastic inventions. :-))
But, to each his own. Some - stories "hot", others - obvious. ))

[Fight cat]

an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain for 10 years in the camps, a bag that a young boy had picked up for 15 years in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick, and grandfather in 1945, 10 camps soldered to him for 15 years. it’s such a good thing the USSR was, and about repression it’s the tales of Svanidze and the rest ... only it doesn’t fit with reality.

[Glot]

an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain for 10 years in the camps, a bag that a young boy had picked up for 15 years in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick, and grandfather in 1945, 10 camps soldered to him for 15 years. it’s such a good thing the USSR was, and about repression it’s the tales of Svanidze and the rest ... only it doesn’t fit with reality.

At night, in the field, I found a bag of grain. He brought it home.
1945 ...
I think that the investigator did not have big questions at that time.
I had one acquaintance, so he loved to yell how much he hates the communist regime, the USSR, and that he raised his children in this hatred, and how glad he was when the Union collapsed.
Why is that ?
It turned out that his grandfather was a white officer in the Civil, and actively fought against the Reds.
Accordingly, when the Reds killed them all, he was tried and imprisoned for a long time. Only him, the grandmother was not touched and the whole family.
His grandfather hated the Communists fiercely for this, and raised his children in this hatred.
I told him, well, they say you wanted if your grandfather went against them with weapons? He would sit at home and nothing would happen. Or did he think that the authorities would feed him with gingerbread when he caught it?
Oh how he sprayed saliva ...)))

[kalibr]

And which of the two of you ended up right? He or you? Who won in the end?

[Glot]

And which of the two of you ended up right? He or you? Who won in the end?

Everyone stayed with their own.
I, with my rightness, in whom I believe. He is with his.
Well, didn’t shoot him? And time is not right ...)))

[kalibr]

No Glot, it was not you who won - and Nikolay tells you this! Whose flag is flying over the Kremlin? Denikin's armored train was called "United Russia", and now what is it? And the coat of arms ... Whose symbols? What is the economy? So believe in your innocence and further, under the trade flag of the Russian Empire (and General Vlasov, by the way!). And since the time is different now and you will not shoot it, then ... people will let off steam here and everything will remain as it is and will be as they decide ... not here. Did you think otherwise?

[Glot]

No Glot, it was not you who won - and Nikolay tells you this! Whose flag is flying over the Kremlin? Denikin's armored train was called "United Russia", and now what is it? And the coat of arms ... Whose symbols? What is the economy? So believe in your innocence and further, under the trade flag of the Russian Empire (and General Vlasov, by the way!). And since the time is different now and you will not shoot it, then ... people will let off steam here and everything will remain as it is and will be as they decide ... not here. Did you think otherwise?

Caliber, why not?
Defeated the red whites. Then. Or is there an alternative version? )))
What is the tricolor at the Kremlin now and what? Yes, for me personally, nothing, not at all. Tricolor ... Yes, and God be with him.
I lived, worked under the USSR and, well, I can’t say anything bad at that time. I can not.
Now I live and work in the Russian Federation. There is a separate topic, not to this topic. )))
What remains of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR on the day of the Russian Federation? From the Empire there was just a piece left, after the Civil called - the RSFSR.
Tricolor blows on the Kremlin. Yes. But how much is lost, fucked up, handed out, drunk, ruined and destroyed ??? !!!
So think who won, and is there a Russian legal successor to RI.
Well, this is about the Denikin armored train and other things.
Yes, Vlasov ...
In my opinion a banal traitor and cattle. That's all.
And most importantly, probably at the end of the conversation.
I do not hail the past of my Country. Of his earth. Whatever it is. I do not gnaw people of past eras, nor their deeds and accomplishments.
I accept what was, and I love Russia, even under the red flag, even under the tricolor.
Actually with this topic is all. )))

[Nikolay K]

The states won in any way. They rubbed their hands while some Russians killed others first in civilian clothes, then in 30, then they beat each other's faces in 90.

[MrK]

Quote: Glot

an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain of 10 years of camps, a bag which a young boy of 15 years picked up in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick

When these liberal nonsense will end.
about the innocent victims.
Ask today in any prison for especially dangerous criminals - are they guilty no? 99% of killers and flayers will say that they are as innocent as babies.

And with regards to the spikelets. For the sake of justice, let’s say that in the law “On Three (Five) Spikelets” there was no discussion of spikelets at all. And it was a question of mass thefts in transport and on collective farms. And these spikelets were taken away at a time, sometimes up to twenty carts.
The fact that excesses have occurred on the ground, and often with the help of this and other laws have reduced the scores with objectionable ones - a characteristic feature of Russia. No matter how good the laws would be, they will be applied for personal selfish purposes, which can be seen quite often even today.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Fighting Cat

my grandfather sat down for a bag of grain 10 years of camps
grandfather in 1945 10 camps soldered to him 15 years was

What article?

[Comrade Bender]

The mother of my ex-mother-in-law was also sent to Kazakhstan, to a settlement. It turned out for repeated embezzlement in the store. Also a victim of repression?

[alicante11]

an eyewitness account, my grandfather sat down at a bag of grain of 10 years of camps, a bag which a young boy of 15 years picked up in a field and taken to the village late at night, and in the morning they came to arrest him, the collective farm chairman and the local district officer! put a tick

So now he will sit down, and in the 90's they sat down, damn it, everyone represses, even Chubais and Gaidarites, not to mention a big EBN and bloody GDP.

[kalibr]

Do you know the saying - "he lies like an eyewitness"? I once repeated my old experience at my faculty: I ordered a student to run in with a banana in his hands to a lecture, shoot it, then do something else there ... And the students who saw all this - describe it! This technique, by the way, is described in a textbook on forensics. So what? There were no two identical descriptions! One saw one thing, the other another. In a word: "So believe people after that, I gave myself to him in the moonlight, and he took my girl's breasts and tied it in a knot on my back!"

[Fight cat]

Mark Aronovich Pius, a very talented mathematician, graduated from Moscow University in 3 years (mechmath) in 1934. For some time he worked at TsAGI, collaborated with Petlyakov and Tupolev, and proposed to carry out mathematical modeling of the process of accumulation and distribution of deformations in structures with pronounced isotropy.
After 15 years, this work will be performed in the USA and will learn how to make durable and lightweight caisson structures for the B-47 and B-52.
On December 5, 1937, he was arrested on charges of participating in a Trotskyite conspiracy.
On December 10, 1937, during interrogation, the investigator knocked out both his eyes.
M.A. Pius refused to sign the accusations of people he knew and did not recognize his own.
December 12, 1937 sentenced to death.
The sentence was executed on the same day.
where did they come from then literate managers were destroyed there with all the proletarian hatred!

[Down House]

Quote: Fighting Cat

where did they come from then literate managers were destroyed there with all the proletarian hatred!

What is it, apparently out of this very "proletarian hatred" he was taught free of charge in a Soviet university and made literate in it ?!
Indeed, where did literate people come from after that in the USSR, some illiterate proletarians invented a nuclear reactor and a nuclear bomb!

[kalibr]

Spouses Rosenberg and Kimi Philby also do not forget, eh? Not only the proletarians tried there!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

trained for free at a Soviet university and made literate in it?

Free in the USSR, the state did nothing to anyone. And it didn’t. Anyway, it plundered people like sticky. After the death of the scoop, the heirs shared a worn carpet and a pair of crystal vases. All. The scoop had nothing more of its own. Even the apartments were rented. State. Miserable clunkers were the ultimate dream.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

Even the apartments were rented. State.

Now also mostly rented. At the bank, but not for free.

Quote: turk

Miserable clunkers were the ultimate dream.

Absolutely normal cars were at that time.

Quote: turk

Free in the USSR, the state did nothing to anyone.

What do you mean, but when you don’t PAY for medicine, it’s also "not free" ?!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Now also mostly rented.

Will lie.

Quote: Down House

but not for free anymore.

And what, there were some free ones? For these "free apartments", as well as for "free textbooks," the state ripped off three skins a day. From this "free" salaries and became 150 rubles. per month.

Quote: Down House

Absolutely normal cars were at that time.

Well yes. It was after the collapse of the USSR that foreign scrap was dragged into it. Which was no cheaper than the new Lada. Only Lada no one bought.

Quote: Down House

and when you don’t PAY for medicine, is it also "not free" ?!

Who told you that you didn't pay for it? They paid. At three prices. You also paid for "helping your friends". And you paid for "peaceful space". You paid for everything "free". Only they didn't get nifiga for it.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

Will lie.

I’m not lying, the mortgage is called. Without it, in the capitalist world, few can afford a new apartment for cash.

Quote: turk

It was after the collapse of the USSR that foreign scrap was dragged into it.

The bandits dragged foreign premium brand scrap metal, which the new one cost as much as 100500 Lada. This does not negate the fact that before the Lada was still better than the same Skoda or Opel.

Quote: turk

Only nifiga for this is not received.

The second time I repeat that they also received free education-training-apartment. Still not clear?

[turk]

Quote: Down House

the mortgage is called. Without it, in the capitalist world, afford a new apartment for

Do not take. Mortgage. And I will tell you a secret. Real estate is generally a luxury. In Europe, not many can afford to own real estate. And if they can afford it, then not where they want to live. This is normal. And in Russia it will be so.
The apartment can be rented. How did you rent it from the communists.

Quote: Down House

This does not negate the fact that before the Lada was still better than the same Skoda or Opel.

Why write garbage? There has never been such a thing.

Quote: Down House

The second time I repeat that they also received free education-training-apartment

You even have a hole in the wall with your beak. And there will be no sense. Until you understand that nothing is free anywhere in the world. And there was not. You always have to pay for everything. At the same time, some suckers managed to pay not only for themselves, but also for a bunch of foreign "friends" - hungry people. They are often also called scoops.
But this is not true. These are not scoops. Scoops are the ones who want everything to be the same. To proudly sit back again on a trampled synthetic carpet and wipe the "only property" in the form of a Czech glass vase with a cloth. Dreaming of buying a motorcycle Dnipro. Years in 10-15.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

Real estate is generally a luxury.

Quote: turk

The apartment can be rented. How did you rent it from the communists.

Real estate is a necessity.
And nobody rented it in the USSR, the lease / rent agreement provides for payment under the agreement, in the USSR there was NO payment, it was a gratuitous transfer of the premises subject to its intended use!

Quote: turk

Have you ever hole in the wall with your beak

Started to be rude? The drain has been read, you have no concrete argument and cannot be!

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Down House

Real estate is a necessity.

Not all real estate. Housing - yes, a matter of vital necessity. And better, this is a private house than an apartment in a high-rise building.

[Down House]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

And better, this is a private house than an apartment in a high-rise building.

And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

[turk]

Quote: Down House

By the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

Lies. Cottages were given only to party and official bonzes. But the population was not given anything. Only under Gorbachev, when it became very hungry, they began to give a piece of land 20x30m FOR RENT. So that a slave picks himself there and does not die of hunger.

[VseDoFeNi]

Nobody gave any lease, they gave ownership of summer cottages in garden cooperatives.

[turk]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

gave ownership of cottages in garden cooperatives.

You at least the meaning of the word "soviet cooperative" would be misunderstood or something. There was no property there in full. Lots of restrictions. One visibility of the property.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: turk

One semblance of property.

“Yes, man is mortal, but that would be half the trouble.” The bad news is that he is sometimes suddenly mortal, that’s the trick! And he can’t say at all what he will do tonight. ” Woland.

And you say property.
You have to be kinder. Although what to take from you. you hate your country.

[turk]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

you hate your country.

Your bloodthirsty idol with your gang of ghouls is not equivalent to my country. The scale is different. And the caliber. But he still managed to drink blood. Very decent. For a long time such a bloodsucker will not be forgotten.

[VseDoFeNi]

I hate you, liberals. (C) Maxim Shevchenko.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Down House

And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

Today you can rent for 49 years. Then take ownership. People take it. In general, I think that it is necessary to bring down from the city, as from a place hostile to all living things.

[kalibr]

Land for cottages. And they could build ... not everyone! Tile, toilet, impose, and that was in short supply.

[turk]

Quote: kalibr

Land for summer cottages

Land under the garden. The house itself could be very small. I don’t remember now, but there were serious limitations in all dimensions.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Down House

And by the way, in the USSR they also gave dachas for free.

Well, I wouldn’t say so clearly ...
When you order a third plastic window you get the third one for free, do you believe that? Or have you already paid for it?

And then. In the USSR, the country's industrialization was carried out, hundreds of cities were built. It was impossible to do without urbanization. Cities have absorbed villages. Each city house, this is a village, large or small, where the role of houses is played by apartments, and earlier konushki in barracks played.

A couple of consequences follow from this - villages were destroyed during industrialization and continue to be destroyed until now. Irrevocably losing the way created by centuries and millennia. This is a problem not only of our country, but of all the so-called developed countries.

That is, at first people were deprived of their houses, having driven them into barracks, then they began to give out apartments "free of charge". And before that people had houses, gardens, households.

In addition, today we have become hostages of housing and communal services, created, it would seem, as a blessing. But no, the resources are privatized, "land and other natural resources can be in private, state, municipal and other forms of ownership." (Constitution of the Russian Federation. Art. 9)

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Real estate is a necessity.

So what? Rent this item and use. What is in the way? The whole world is mainly rented, but it cannot ... Only if the Communists.

Quote: Down House

there was NO payment in the USSR, it was a gratuitous transfer of housing on condition of its intended use!

"Uncle, are you"? How many times can I explain to you that free cheese is only in a mousetrap?

Quote: Down House

The drain has been read, you have no concrete argument and cannot be

Buy the cheapest textbook on political economy. And study. You will understand then what is paid and what is free.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

Rent this item and use. What is in the way?

The pointlessness of this, I am already provided with real estate more than, but the conversation was not originally about me.

Quote: turk

The whole world basically rents

And in there was a free transfer of housing! Therefore, I recommend buying a textbook and reading how renting a living room differs from donation without the right to sell!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

but the conversation was not originally about me.

Think about yourself. And write in your own name. There is no need to "suffer for others."
Probably the "new bad power" and threw another apartment? Is free. Privatization. And the land was presented by the "bad" ones? Unlike the "good communists".

Quote: Down House

there was a free transfer of housing!

Damn, how much do you have to repeat that there is no free (gratuitous) in life? Do you know how you differ from Uncle Fedor from Prostokvashino? The fact that he (the little boy) understood that "in order to sell something unnecessary, you must first buy something unnecessary." Buy, understand? And nothing will fall on your head for free. The government apartment won't build itself. For its construction it will be necessary to take something away from someone. Guess who was taken from?

Quote: Down House

different from donation without right of sale

Are you going to invent "news" for a long time?

[MrK]

Quote: turk

Guess who was taken from?

Always taken away from those who produce something.
The only difference is that you are a turk, taking workers from your pocket. And then - curly-haired with prostitutes, the French Riviera. Personal Boeing, yachts the size of a destroyer, etc.
And in the USSR, money taken away as part of the profit was spent on free treatment, rest in sanatoriums, almost free housing, free quality education for all.
I twice, after the 6 and 7 classes, rested in a pioneer camp. Pine forest on the river. Campaigns, bonfires, dances to the orchestra, until you drop.
That's the only difference.

[turk]

Quote: mrark

The only difference is that you are a turk, taking workers from your pocket.

You, my dear, confused me with a pickpocket. No, I understand that this "society" is your own for you. But I'm not one of him.

Quote: mrark

And in the USSR money taken away as part of the profit was spent on free treatment, rest in sanatoriums, almost free housing, Free quality education for everyone.

And also for the livelihood and armament of gangs of holodotrans around the world, an endless series of stupid re-equipment, the production of nowhere worthless scrap metal in incredible quantities, etc., etc. I also forgot about space flights with friends-Holodrans. But there were no sausages in stores. And a special piece of paper for asses, too.

Quote: mrark

I twice, after the 6 and 7 classes, rested in a pioneer camp. Pine forest on the river. Campaigns, bonfires, dances to the orchestra, until you drop.

Clear. The fact that the pioneer camps are tracing paper from scout camps, you, in your darkness, do not know.

[Fight cat]

these are the very illiterate proletarians Is it true that they studied at imperial educational institutions ?! How powerfully it is wrapped !!! Soviet universities and the fact that there Jews got 20% of the places! and a little that the teacher was kicked for anti-Zionism if he bothered to pincer the personal belongings of some of the leaders with the pace. Behind

[kalibr]

In the Penza region in 1937, the fact of sabotage was revealed - "they killed aphids on 5 hectares of peas" (the newspaper "Stalin's banner"). I'm not an agronomist ... who knows what is really sabotage, to destroy aphids on peas?

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: kalibr

"killed by aphids on 5 hectares of peas"

Maybe so - "destroyed aphids per 5 hectares of peas. "The meaning is reversed.

[Fight cat]

so shot literate then !! they shot because of simply hostility or the fact that they are of noble, bourgeois, or God forbid priestly origin!

[Starik72]

Vyacheslav. I will answer you like that. The dead can be found guilty and watered, THEY will not answer! But the powers that be cannot be, for this you can get the teeth, and even lose your life! So draw conclusions. And for the fact that YOU do not believe our grandfathers and grandmothers, I set you minus.

[kalibr]

I believe grandfathers and grandmothers, but I prefer everything that they say to check in the archives. And you know, something converges on 100%, but something ... does not converge at all! And somehow I will survive your minus ...

[Nikolay K]

Letter from M. Sholokhov to I. Stalin on grain procurement.
http://sholohov.sch1262.ru/tegami.html

[Foul skeptic]

Quote: Glot

No, in Moscow, too, it seemed like there was nothing to hear about.

Why be surprised. Did you hear a lot about terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro in the year 75? I haven’t.

[Glot]

Why be surprised. Did you hear a lot about terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro in the year 75? I haven’t.

This, different things all the same. Incomparable.
So the example is not good.

[LM66]

A person who calls his deceased ancestors "grandmother" is just a stupid person

[Mera joota]

Quote: S_Baykala

He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

Duc does not mean that they were not. I have enough of them in my family, moreover, they are not scientists or officials, but ordinary peasants and one teacher. There is also a friend who, as a young steering-minder on a pusher, participated in the destruction of the "Kolpashevsky Yar" and heard from him stories of how thousands of corpses flowed down the Ob river from the yar that was washed away by the screws of the pushers ...
Well, yesterday, the Star (it seems) was a program about the founder of judo in the USSR Oshchepkova Vasily Sergeevich, who in 1937. was arrested (not hard to guess) as a Japanese spy and died in Butyrka prison after his arrest. The circumstances of the death are unknown, but it is clear that the judoka athlete could die only as a result of torture during interrogation ...
If this is not enough for you, you can recall S.P. Korolev, whose interrogator, during interrogation, kicked his head and broke his jaw.
And the execution of members of the government of Mongolia on Kommunarka? So then Mongolia an independent state was ...
These are drops in the sea ...

[Barboskin]

There were plenty of real enemies too, according to my grandmother's stories in Siberia, in 38 in the village a collective farm activist, a member of the party, was killed. Two killers were found and imprisoned, but as they said in the village, not all were taken to clean water. There were more participants.

[the polar]

Quote: Mera Joota

Quote: S_Baykala

He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

Duc does not mean that they were not. I have enough of them in my family, moreover, they are not scientists or officials, but ordinary peasants and one teacher. There is also a friend who, as a young steering-minder on a pusher, participated in the destruction of the "Kolpashevsky Yar.

And nobody told you that there was a Kolchakovo concentration camp in Kolpashevo? And the Kolchakites, having packed three barges with peasants, activists, captive Red Army men, boarded up the holds and in the fall lowered these barges with self-rafting along the Ob. These barges, of course, then sank with people.
After the defeat of the Kolchak gangs, this crime was recorded by the Soviet authorities and is in the archives, but none of the liberalists talks about this, spreading snot on their faces.

[Tomich2]

In Western Siberia, the Narymsky district became the main region of exile. Narymsky district was created in 1932 and was equal in territory to the territory of Belarus and Lithuania combined. Nowhere and never during the period of Soviet power did they write that in the 30-40s of the 20th century, up to half a million people were sent here for special settlement, according to some reports.
The resettlement of the "dispossessed" peasants in uninhabited places of Siberia was a matter of pride for the Soviet leadership. For example, the head of Siblag reported that during the period from May 1931 to June 1932, 43852 families (about 120 thousand people) were brought to the Narym Territory. "Thus, over 65-70 days, the Narym Territory, colonized by the tsarist government for 350 years and receiving about 40000 people of the resettlement population during this period, doubled the number of inhabitants." Indeed, the tsarist government was far from the Stalinist regime in carrying out forced resettlement.
Immediately, upon arrival at the place of settlement, the special settlers received the task of uprooting for arable land, they were given a plan for sowing and ... delivery of grain to the state. So, in the Narym region in 1931, 6 thousand hectares were uprooted for agricultural purposes. In 1932, it was proposed to grub 55,4 thousand hectares, sow 36,5 thousand hectares of spring crops, 21 thousand hectares of winter crops. In the resolution of the Council of People's Commissars of April 20, 1933, it was noted: "To impose the duty of the OGPU to sow 1933 thousand hectares of various field and vegetable crops in the places of settlement of the new contingent in the fall of 1934 and in the spring of 420, of which 180 thousand hectares are in Western Siberia. ha, including winter rye in autumn 1933 in Western Siberia 47500 ha ". Thus, the "new contingent", having barely arrived at the place of settlement, in the fall had to start tens of thousands of hectares of arable land!
You can pay attention to the fact that the OGPU was charged with ensuring the fulfillment of these tasks, with all the ensuing consequences. And the special settlers uprooted, plowed, sowed and handed over. And for failure to fulfill the assignments for bread-giving, severe punishment followed. A document has survived where the head of the Gulag reported to the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs: "At the suggestion of the secretary of the regional party committee, comrade Eikhe, 94 families of 400 labor settlers are being moved from the Kolyvan commandant's office to the remote northern regions of the region for sabotaging hospitality and other measures."
From the documents it is known that in 1931 on July 26-31, the only uprising of special migrants in the territory of the Parbig commandant's office (now the Chainsky and Bakcharsky districts of the Tomsk region) took place in Western Siberia. Almost one and a half thousand settlers took part in it. The uprising was brutally crushed by the forces of the OGPU, the police and the party-Soviet asset. Some of the rebels were killed during the suppression of the uprising, some were repressed after the uprising was liquidated, but some of the former rebels still live in Narym.
In the Kargasok regional department of statistics, a map of the Vasyugan part of the Kargasok district has been preserved, it is called "Scheme of the sections of the Middle and Nizhnevasyugan commandant's offices, inhabited since May 26, 1931" and is classified as "top secret".

[Glot]

For example, the head of Siblag reported

Can I see the original of this report?

The decision of the Council of People's Commissars of April 20, 1933 noted:

And the decision would be to read by itself.

A document has been preserved where the head of the Gulag reported to the narcotics of the interior:

Where is the document?

A map of the Vasyugan part of the Kargasoksky district has been preserved in the Kargasoksky district department of statistics

The map would also be interesting to look in the original.

In general, there are many links to certain documents, but there are no documents themselves.
Unconfirmed information is documented.
Although I do not argue, maybe it was all like that, or maybe not so at all, maybe differently.

[Tomich2]

All these documents are in the Tomsk region, you can come and see if you wish.
Don’t believe Google to help you.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Tomic2

In the resolution of the Council of People's Commissars dated April 20, 1933, it was noted: "To charge the OGPU with sowing 1933 thousand hectares of various field and garden crops in the places of settlement of the new contingent in the fall of 1934 and in the spring of 420, of which 180 thousand hectares are in Western Siberia. ha, including winter rye in the fall of 1933 in Western Siberia 47500 ha ". Thus, the "new contingent", having barely arrived at the place of settlement, in the fall had to start tens of thousands of hectares of arable land!

Moscow Kremlin

No. 775/146 from April 20, 1933

Ex. Number 56.

Secretly

On the organization of labor settlements of the OGPU
The Council of People's Commissars of the USSR decides:

1) To entrust the OGPU with the organization of labor settlements according to the type of existing special settlements for placement in them and the economic development of newly resettled contingents.

To reorganize the Main Directorate of the OGPU camps into the Main Directorate of the OGPU camps and labor settlements, increasing the staff in the center and in the localities as agreed with the RCT. At the same time, reorganize the apparatus for special migrants in Siberia and Kazakstan, suggesting that the OGPU within 2 days submit the structure of the organization of labor settlements in these areas and in places of resettlement.

Comrade Berman M., [134] to be appointed Head of the Main Directorate of Camps and Labor Settlements of the OGPU, and his deputies: for camps - Comrade Rappoport and for settlements - comrade Rina. [135]

The following contingents should be sent to the created labor settlements:

a) fists evicted from areas of continuous collectivization;

b) evicted for the breakdown and sabotage of grain procurement and other campaigns;

c) an urban element that refuses to leave Moscow and Leningrad due to passportization;

d) fists fleeing from villages removed from industrial production;

e) evicted in the order of cleaning state borders (the West and Ukraine);

f) convicted by the bodies of the OGPU and the courts for a term of 3 to 5 years inclusive, except for those especially socially dangerous.

2) The labor use of the evicted contingents is carried out directly by the Main Directorate of Camps and Labor Settlements of the OGPU by organizing agriculture, fishing, handicrafts and other types of households in places of resettlement. activities.

3) To entrust the OGPU with the organization of housing, cultural, domestic and sanitary-medical construction in labor settlements and providing all types of supplies (food, manufactured goods, agricultural equipment, implements, etc.). Settlements to create in the range from 300 to 500 families each.

4) To oblige the people's commissariats and business agencies serving the special resettlers of the old resettlement, who are engaged in agriculture and fishing (Narym and North Kazakhstan), to transfer to the OGPU all cash and material resources received both in the budgetary order and on budget no later than May 1 bank loan. The entire apparatus of these people's commissariats and business agencies, which is engaged in servicing special settlers, should also be transferred to the OGPU.

5) The contingent of newly resettled people should be equated in all respects with special migrants resettled in 1930–1931.

Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Union of the SSR V. Molotov (Scriabin) Managers of the Council of People's Commissars of the Union of the USSR I. Miroshnikov [136] Resolution of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR

[GRAY]

Quote: Mera Joota

thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...

I have a history teacher (!) Back in Soviet times, I loved to talk about how the Soviet army crushed defenseless people in tanks in Czechoslovakia - they drove straight to the abyss and who did not want to die under the caterpillars that signal down the rocks.
The best way to disrupt the lesson was any question that included the word "Czechoslovakia" - it was carried all 40 minutes.
And how happy she was in 1991 - it was something. True, soon she had to die in poverty ... As the saying goes: "to see Paris and die", I hope this creature liked the "Paris", although this is unlikely - she was too stubborn.

[ava09]

With porridge in your own head, first of all, you need to figure it out. The Soviet period was very diverse - right down to the opposites, for example: Trotskyism and Stalinism, the same thing? Oshchepkov was arrested under Yezhov, the Trotskyist, who was shot while restoring order to the NKVD by Beria. And do not compare the scumbag-investigator with Stalin.

[Mera joota]

Quote: ava09

Oshchepkov was arrested under Yezhov, the Trotskyist, who was shot while restoring order to the NKVD by Beria. And do not compare the scumbag-investigator with Stalin.

What a nimble you are. Yezhov means Trotskyist ...
Nikolai Yezhov had nothing to do with Trotsky; moreover, he plagued his comrades-in-arms at an accelerated pace, delighting Stalin with firing lists. Ezhov is a man of Stalin, he worked in the Organizational Distribution Department (Stalin's most important tool in the struggle for power) from 1926 to 1934. starting with the deputy and eventually leading him. All personnel changes that cleaned up managerial posts from the Trotskyists were due to Yezhov (naturally, under the supervision of Stalin). Stalin would never in his life admit Trotskyist to the arrangement of cadres. The fact that Yezhov was stuck at the trial with the stigma of a Trotskyist is not worth cheating ...

[Nikolay K]

The Stalinists have essentially one "iron" argument: everything that was bad under Stalin is to blame for the Trotskyists, enemies of the people, or, in extreme cases, local excesses. But in all good things, it is exclusively the merit of Comrade Stalin, it was he who built the Dnieper hydroelectric stations and took Berlin.

[kalibr]

Belief in a good king and bad boyars this goes from old times ... I would very much like to see someone spend a massive social. poll of the Stalinists and anti-Stalinists, and finally would find out all the features of those and those. Social origin, gender, age, education, salary, psycho, up to blood type and chronic diseases. We would then have a social portrait of both of them and could compare ...

[Nikolay K]

Yeah. The ancestors of most of us were serfs. Apparently, many servile psychology has already built into genes, and so much so that even 150 years after the abolition of serfdom, they need a king, always kind, but strong, who, if he beats, means love.

[Nikolay K]

Yeah. The ancestors of most of us were serfs. Apparently, many servile psychology has already built into genes, and so much so that even 150 years after the abolition of serfdom, they need a king, always kind, but strong, who, if he beats, means love.

[ava09]

No, it’s you clever ... you can even work in the GRU, and be a traitor, here Gorbachert was generally the first person. There were a lot of enemies who got used to the power in those years. And now, by your actions, you are trying to discredit the Man, after whose death it was Trotskyist Khrushch who began to destroy the people's state. And it is no secret that the NKVD, before the arrival of the "fire brigade" in the person of Beria, was a "State within a State" and a bunch of enemies.

[Glot]

how thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...

Strong phrase. ))))
Just flowing shelves ...)))
For some reason, I immediately remembered a similar opus of one girl read somewhere on the network, who, recalling the "horrors of the Afghan war", broadcast to the entire Internet as if she lived in some kind of "small Belarusian town, every night hundreds of cars loaded with coffins went through their town, then took out the dead there ... ". EVERY NIGHT, HUNDREDS OF CARS PUMPED WITH STOPS, through this small, unknown town in Belarus. ))) I laughed for a long time reading this nonsense, and laughed at those who commented on it, groaning and ahay and cursing the USSR.
Here's a similar song ...

[Down House]

Quote: Mera Joota

thousands of corpses flowed along the Ob River from the yara washed away by screws of pushers ...

Yes you sho !?
And it does not bother at all, that for each ZEK there was his own card and without a card and a corpse he is a "fugitive", and his Mister-Chief for "thousands" of fugitives himself will be at least shot ?!

[Mera joota]

Quote: Down House

Are you sho !? And it does not bother at all, that for each ZEK there was his own card and without a card and a corpse he is a "fugitive", and his Mister-Chief for "thousands" of fugitives himself will be at least shot ?!

Enough has been written about Kolpashevsky Yar. A bunch of witnesses, there are people who first discovered the bodies washed away by the river. In Tomsk there is a museum of the NKVD where there are enough documents. You can savor your sarcasm as much as you like, but what will it change? You will remain with your opinion regardless of any documents and testimonies provided to you.

[Down House]

Quote: Mera Joota

Enough has been written about Kolpashevsky Yar

it is written that there was a camp burial for 4000 people.
You are still an interesting person, do you think people didn’t die in the wild?
I think that there are hundreds, thousands of times more people in "civil" cemeteries than in camp ones, and if a person died in a camp, it does not mean that he was necessarily killed without trial!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

You are still an interesting person, do you think people didn’t die in the wild?

Do you not like Kolpashevsky Yar? No problem, check out the other addresses. Here are the "execution lists" in Moscow. 78 sheets. Everything is sorted out directly to the postal addresses. How many people there are, I did not count, but there are 100 names on the last sheet.
Learn:
http://mos.memo.ru/shot-1.htm

[Down House]

Quote: turk

Here are the "execution lists" in Moscow.

Fictitious lists, shooting lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case!

[Glot]

Fictitious lists, shooting lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case

Yes, this MUM has linden, one continuous disinformation, spreading at the seams. )))

[Down House]

Quote: Glot

one continuous disinfectant, creeping apart at the seams

Because their entire "party line" is a series of "emotional proofs" and complete disregard for any facts. Objective reality, you see, interferes with their logically flawless "reflections"!))))

[turk]

Quote: Down House

The execution lists are compiled not by addresses in Moscow, but by the numbers of the criminal case!

Smarter excuses need to come up. In order not to look like a scoundrel.

[Down House]

Quote: turk

excuses to invent

So do not invent it, get familiar with the basics of procedural legislation and office work, so as not to write nonsense that the "execution lists" were drawn up by addresses!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

that the "execution lists" were drawn up at the addresses

Are you really such a ... brake? Or pretending to be?

[Down House]

Quote: turk

You really are

Have you come here to abuse? Sorry!

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Have you come here to abuse?

No. But I did not plan to be so surprised either.

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Have you come here to abuse?

No. But I did not plan to be so surprised either.

[Fight cat]

personally, it doesn’t bother me, because the cards: they were both lost and not given up to the archive, and the archives were overloaded, and everyone knows what a relocation is. and about strict reporting under Stalin there is no need to drive the blizzard, it’s enough to read the documents, how they fought against crime and party violence after Stalin’s death ... Attention, all these comrades in the national republics were placed under Stalin and the criminal situation reached the point where Russian riots began, which were then suppressed with the help of troops already under Khrushchev! Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, received all their privileges under Stalin ... ... I think that it was precisely Stalin’s rule that laid all these pitfalls that we raked in the 90s and subsequent years !!! Already under Stalin, we began to turn into a raw materials appendage of the West !!! You can criticize, but I can easily prove the opposite!
For me, Stalin is a bloody ghoul among the same ghouls ... who worked purposefully to destroy Statehood and the Nation in favor of the Anglo-Saxons. What is the only decision at the UN headquarters in the USA.

[Fight cat]

some simply don’t have the courage to admit that not everything was so beautiful in the Danish kingdom! but for me it was a focused machine to destroy any alternative thinking!

[Down House]

Yes, because there were no "popular repressions" think for yourself: liberals often call the numbers of those who died from repression more than in the Second World War, but all relatives fought, died in the Second World War, but neither I nor my friends have repressed, although those who died in WWII and those convicted of a criminal offense after Stalin is!
And how many, according to the "promises" of liberals, were in camps - these camps were supposed to be larger than Moscow, but I haven't found a single such "megalopolis" from Google Sputnik!

[marlin1203]

Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact, confirmed and condemned even during the Soviet era. To speculate on this topic (they say, "Was there a boy?") Is immoral, too many lives have been ruined and destinies have been broken. We must not just forget that political repression is not our invention, but they existed in one form or another, always and everywhere, and they must be considered in connection with a specific historical situation. As for our history, they accompanied fundamental changes in history - the revolution, the Second World War, and many agree that it was impossible without them. Inhumane by our standards, but they made it possible to withstand the young Soviet regime, collectivize, and subsequently industrialize the country, renew the army and survive in the Second World War. What would otherwise be difficult to even guess.

[Down House]

Quote: marlin1203

too many lives are ruined and destinies are broken.

Firstly, it is not ruined, broken, but condemned according to the current legislation.
Secondly, not a lot, all the data on the number of ZOs is declassified and is on the network and you probably will not believe it, but they were always strictly considered, if only because a strict amount was relied on for each ZO for maintenance and "speculations" with these numbers were tantamount to being shot !

[marlin1203]

About "current legislation" just not necessary, eh? .. Not even funny. I don’t argue about statistics, records were kept. But "a lot" is "a lot." The concept is evaluative and your claims are not clear.

[Down House]

Quote: marlin1203

Don't talk about "current legislation"

No, the current legislation is the current legislation, in particular, the power of the state rests on it and it is necessary to respect it.

Quote: marlin1203

But "a lot" is "a lot." The concept is evaluative and your claims are not clear.

Your assessments are not clear, for example, even now more people are sitting in the USA than in the Stalin USSR, and the largest number of ZK under Stalin was in the post-war years, after the Citizen and the Great Patriotic War, that is, primarily during the revelry of post-war banditry.

[marlin1203]

Do not confuse the American "sitting" with our camps. And their population is 2 times more than ours. And about "socialist legality" have you heard, but about "recognition is the queen of proofs" ?. Don't write about what you don't understand.

[Uncle Joe]

“Confession is the queen of evidence”

Summary of the myth

This phrase is sometimes attributed to A.Ya. Vyshinsky (General Prosecutor of the USSR 1935–1939), sometimes he is credited with the fact that he allegedly brought a theoretical base for this thesis. As a rule, it is used as “indirect evidence” that in the Stalinist USSR most of the “political” cases were based on confessions extracted from the defendants, or to compare the criticized regime with the Stalinist one.

Примеры использования

“For those to whom the name Vyshinsky does not say anything, it is worth recalling that this chief director of the terrible political processes of the 30s successfully introduced the postulate into theory and practice: recognition is the queen of evidence.” 1) “'Recognition is the queen of evidence'. This catchphrase of Andrei Vyshinsky, the bloodiest prosecutor of Stalin's times, was perfectly learned by Israeli judges, and this simple principle is being applied with might and main. ”2)

Reality

In fact, this phrase was still in ancient Rome. Queen of evidence (lat. - Regina probationum) - this is what Roman law called guilty plea of ​​the defendant, which makes all other evidence, evidence and further investigative actions redundant. 3)

Vyshinsky himself, as follows from his work “Theory of Judicial Evidence in Soviet Law” 4), held the opposite opinion (an excerpt from the text given in Wikipedia is given):

“It would be a mistake to give the accused or the defendant, or rather, their explanations, more importance than they deserve it ... In quite distant times, during the era of domination in the theory of so-called legal (formal) evidence, the revaluation of the confessions of the defendant or the accused reached to such an extent that the recognition by the accused of guilty was considered to be an indisputable, unquestionable truth, even if this confession was wrested from him by torture, which at that time was almost the only process full evidence, at least considered the most serious evidence, the "queen of evidence" (regina probationum).

... This principle is completely unacceptable for Soviet law and judicial practice. Indeed, if other circumstances established in the case prove the guilt of the person brought to justice, then the consciousness of that person loses the value of evidence and in this regard becomes redundant. In this case, its significance can only be reduced to being the basis for assessing certain moral qualities of the defendant, for lowering or strengthening the punishment determined by the court.

Such an organization of the investigation, in which the accused’s testimony turns out to be the main and - even worse - the only foundations of the entire investigation, can jeopardize the whole case if the accused changes his evidence or refuses them.

http://wiki.istmat.info/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84:%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0_
%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2

[Down House]

Quote: marlin1203

Do not confuse the American "sitting" with our camps.

Let's not, read for example about private prisons in the USA.
http://pravo.ru/review/view/89878/
In the USA, prisons are a whole business and anyone can be sentenced there for anything if he does not have enough money for a lawyer. And the content there is also not sugar and the killings and riots there are a regular occurrence.

Quote: marlin1203

Yes, and their population is 2 times more than ours

It is important the amount of ZK per 100 thousand.

Quote: marlin1203

Have you heard about "confession - the queen of proofs"?

Check out legal torture in US prisons, such as Guantanamo Bay, or read this, and that's it in the 21st century!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%8B%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BA%
D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%87%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%B2_%D1%82%D1%8E%D1%80%D1%8C%
D0%BC%D0%B5_%D0%90%D0%B1%D1%83-%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%B1

[marlin1203]

1. Are you seriously trying to compare American prisons and our "Solovki" with "Magadan"? 2. The American judicial system, based on case law, for all its comicalness at times, still relies on the verdict of the jury, which, if not quite to a large extent, guarantees the fairness of the verdict. 3. Murders and riots in the United States, not only in prisons (Ferguson). With street crime and gangs they have more serious business than ours. 4. About the relativity of the given digital indicators (per 100000 people, you did not mention) 5. CIA prisons and CIA prisons are because torture is prohibited in the United States. So they were forced to do this in Guantanamo, Eastern Europe and, according to some reports, even in airplanes. So, formally, this all happened outside the jurisdiction of the United States. 6. Regarding the "queen of proofs" (by the way, without any difference Vyshinsky's words or not, an established turn in speech and professional activity) - ask what "rehabilitation" is and how the prosecutor's office dealt with it in the 90s.

[Down House]

Quote: marlin1203

to compare American prisons and our "Solovki" with "Magadan"?

You started, but why? Do you want to feed ZK cakes or what? Do you generally know the principles of PUNISHMENT?

Quote: marlin1203

relies on jury verdict

Not everywhere and not always, you have very superficial ideas about the joint venture.

Quote: marlin1203

what is "rehabilitation" and how the prosecutor's office dealt with it in the 90s.

I know all this, but somehow we smoothly left the original topic.

[marlin1203]

I started with this: Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact, confirmed and condemned even during the Soviet era. To speculate on this topic (they say, "Was there a boy?") Is immoral, too many lives have been ruined and destinies have been broken. We must not just forget that political repression is not our invention, but they existed in one form or another, always and everywhere, and they must be considered in connection with a specific historical situation. As for our history, they accompanied fundamental changes in history - the revolution, the Second World War, and many agree that it was impossible without them. Inhumane by our standards, but they made it possible to withstand the young Soviet regime, collectivize, and subsequently industrialize the country, renew the army and survive in the Second World War. What would otherwise be difficult to even guess. В the bottom line: there were repressions, this is bad, but in the current historical situation is inevitable. It is criminal to close our eyes to this, but self-flagellation is not necessary. It is necessary to remember and protect what went at such a bitter price. Ps What is wrong with the US judicial system? What is their case-law or jury trial? So, the law is unprecedented, and the jury is certainly used (Amendment 6 of the US Constitution) is wider than ours (although in my opinion this is not for the best). And in order to make comments on the superficiality of knowledge in this case, you need at least a degree in law.

[Down House]

Quote: marlin1203

: Political repression in the USSR is a historical fact,

This is primarily a political step initially by Khrushchev, then by the "democrats" who followed him, and one must understand that the very definition of "political repression" is nothing more than political "speculation"!
Google definition of the word Repression is punitive measures against criminals who have committed CRIMINAL crimes against state power, that is, the subject of the crime is a criminal, and the object of the crime is the state system, and there is no policy here, it is punishable, punishable and will be punished by any state.
And, accordingly, I have a question, how can the state be accused of repressions if from the point of view of law the State is a "victim" of repression? ))))

Quote: marlin1203

What is wrong with the US judiciary?

The fact that the "use" of the jury and their role differs from state to state and case to case, and to speak of the "US judicial system" as something united is not correct. Or am I wrong?

[marlin1203]

Uuuuu, everything is running like ... We pass to the conceptual apparatus - "okay google" That is, there will be no constructiveness, we will be measured by formulations and look for "the originality of the egg." Wrong site. You think that no one was repressed or shot, whatever you like ... And about the judicial system ... Am I in vain referring to the US constitution? Or is it selectively applied in various states?

[MrK]

I agree marlin1203. Put +.
I will add. As for the shortcomings of the Soviet system, the German scientist G. Simmel spoke well of them: - You, Russians, strange people, take off your pants and show the whole world your SCARFY PLACES - they say, look what we have. But all countries of the "Great West" have these places. But they don’t take off their trousers and DO NOT DEMONSTRATE HIMSELF to other nations. Or not?

[turk]

Quote: Down House

Do you want to feed ZK cakes or what? Do you generally know the principles of PUNISHMENT?

Do you know what strikes the most about the Stalinists? This is some kind of pathological cannibalism. Plus the absolute certainty that all these "severities", if they are repeated, will not be affected. Affected. And rest assured first.
And the state is obliged to provide worthy living conditions to its citizens everywhere. And in the wild, and outside of it. This is his concern, his function.

[kalibr]

Tried in prisons and with us. Only here recently there was a story about Pskov ... It’s better not to go anywhere in prison!

[kalibr]

Well done, good polimeziruesh!

[Dart2027]

Quote: marlin1203

Don't confuse the American "sitting" with our camps

What's the difference?

[Weyland]

Quote: marlin1203

Do not confuse the American "sitting" with our camps. And their population is 2 times more than ours. And about "socialist legality" have you heard, but about "recognition is the queen of proofs" ?. Don't write about what you don't understand.

Sir, an American prison is no better than a Stalinist one, this is not a European "resort" for you - private prisons, and the ZK plow like Pope Carlo! By the way, you know that corporal punishment in prisons in several states was legalized before 1964? And in half the states in prisons for youngsters are they legalized to this day? The atrocities in the Stalinist camps, according to the then legislation, were still illegal - and in the USA, for example, during the Great Depression of one convict for vagrancy in prison to death for the fact that he being sick with malaria, I could not fulfill the daily output rate! A bastion of democracy ...

[Nikolay K]

Under the laws applicable in feudal Russia, the serf was the property of the landowner. So, in your opinion, from this torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation in force at that time? In addition to the norms of the law, there are also the concepts of morality. The murder or robbery of a person covered by the norms of the law only indicates the arbitrariness of the law.

[Down House]

Quote: Nikolai K

torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation applicable at that time

Quote: Nikolai K

In addition to the norms of the law, there are also the concepts of morality

What are you talking about now ?!
To torture and even more to kill "slaves", to put it mildly, "was not welcome" even in those days, both from the point of view of the law and from the point of view of morality.
The same "saltychikha" was sentenced to life imprisonment, there was no death penalty then.

[MrK]

Quote: Down House

To torture and even more to kill "slaves", to put it mildly, "was not welcome" even in those days, both from the point of view of the law and from the point of view of morality.

People were kept in slavery for two hundred years. They were sold and bought, they were exchanged for talking parrots and thoroughbred puppies. They could do anything with them. And they did.
In the home shooting range of the Russian landowner Struysky, the gentlemen were entertained by the fact that they forced the serf men to run in a limited space and shot them with bullets and rifles. Sometimes missed, sometimes hit.
Here is the landowner Korotkov, about whom the writer Grigorovich spoke at one time. When Korotkov’s wife asked her husband for money, he called the manager and casually threw:
- Gryzlov, Marya Fyodorovna is going to Moscow, we need money ... Travel through the villages, I saw a lot of this small thing there, the riffraders have accumulated - dispose of it! This meant that Gryzlov and his assistants had to drive through the villages, catch the extra children and young girls and quickly ... sell them.
Slavery corrupts everyone - both slaves and masters. Here is a sad example for you: the famous Russian book publisher and enlightener N.I. Novikov. He had a devoted serf man, who, when the master was put in prison for freethinking, voluntarily, out of pure devotion, followed him to prison.
He was very fond of Novikov. Even at the table, celebrating with friends release from prison, he sat down with him. Yes, once I took it and sold it. It hurt too much good money, two thousand rubles, and things were upset.
So I repeat: carefully study your genealogy, gentlemen, critics of the revolution. It’s good if your or Govorukhin’s great-great-great-grandfather was one of those whom the barefoot serfs treated in the bathhouse — well, how was one of them your great-great-great-grandmother?
Excerpts from the book A. Kurlyandchik - “Cursed Soviet Power” ... on Proza.ru

[alicante11]

So, in your opinion, from this torture and murder of a slave cease to be a crime and are justified by the framework of the legislation in force at that time?

Look in Yandex for the word "Saltychikha", than this "madam" who loved to torture and kill "slaves" finished. And then you are a disgrace.

[War and Peace]

Svanidze is already down his throat with his anti-Stalinist "investigations", and this MUM is a Jewish hotbed of false descendants of those who were involved in repressions, it is necessary to cover up this hotbed of destructiveness and lies in society ...

[kalibr]

And what about this say Fomenko with Nosovsky?

[War and Peace]

Quote: kalibr

And what about this say Fomenko with Nosovsky?

FINA on this occasion say - walk Vasya ...

[kalibr]

Once minus means they are silent ...

[Glot]

Once minus means they are silent ...

This is for now. Years later ... tsat will write that there was neither Stalin nor the USSR, but it was all Hitler and Germany. ))))))) Or something else in the spirit of "the great and terrible Fomenko and Co." )))

[kalibr]

How well did you say ...

[podpolkovnik]

Quote: S_Baykala

He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances, I have not heard of a single repressed person. Although 15-20 years ago it was very fashionable to have a repressed relative. And in Moscow or St. Petersburg, apparently, every second "bloody gebnya" repressed (sarcasm). Get out of Moscow, otherwise it’s dangerous there, they’re suddenly repressed.

Already laid out.
But I think that in the subject ...

[aleks 62 next]

... He lived 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

.... The same story .... One of my distant relatives during the Second World War was the head of a large junction station in Siberia (a big city) .... You can imagine the level of responsibility ... He worked in office throughout the war and did not remember not a single case of the so-called repressions ... By the way, there was an article on the VO about the "horrors" of repressions based on declassified documents from the Second World War and the first post-war years, about the punishment of traitors, about the GULAG, including ... It was struck that the tower was almost not given, mainly accomplices and traitors for 10 years in camps, and in the Gulag 90% were criminals, not political ones, and the number of inmates was overestimated (by Solzhenitsin) several times ... Liberation ... Do you understand ...

[Babr]

No, I confess, my mother was repressed.
According to her stories, for spikelets. She sat until the evening in the collective farm barn.
Then she graduated from sniper courses. Truth in the war did not participate. I did not have time.

[Dart2027]

Quote: aleks 62 next

in the Gulag 90% turned out to be criminals, not political

The funny thing is that even in "Ivan Denisovich" the text implies the same thing - a political minority, but mostly ordinary bandits.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

The funny thing is that even in "Ivan Denisovich" the text implies the same thing - a political minority, but mostly ordinary bandits.

The funny thing is not that. The funny thing is that the official statistics of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs are laid out at the top. Which you do not notice. And it clearly states that, for example, in 1938. at least 93% of those arrested were political.

[Dart2027]

In 1937-1938, a large-scale purge was carried out from which the enemies of the people emit poisonous saliva.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

In the years 1937-1938 was carried out large-scale cleaning

I would like to see how you screamed if you had been cleaned. With family. I’d probably be glad.

[Dart2027]

Provide evidence that completely cleaned innocent people imagine?

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

that they cleaned completely innocent people

Not cleaned. Clean the toilet after your trip there. KILLED. Here is what they did.

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

KILLED. That's what they did

They kill - this is when liberals and democrats, completely anti-Stalinists, organized a gangster outrage in the country in the 90s, and when such liberals are put to the wall - this is called to cleanse the country of enemies of the people.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

this is when liberals and democrats

You do not deviate from the topic.

[Dart2027]

And I do not deviate.

[turk]

What did you post the picture to me here? Are you hinting that the bribe takers were shot? And bribe takers, are these criminals?
Then look at the numbers.
In 1937. 157694 people were arrested. under criminal (not counter-revolutionary) articles. Let's say they were all convicted and shot. Although in practice, that year 15,5% of those arrested were not convicted. But in the same year, 353074 people were shot. More than 2 times more. Where did they get them? Only from the "contra", no longer from where.
In 1938. 45183 people were arrested. under criminal (not counter-revolutionary) articles. Let's say they were all convicted and shot. Although in practice that year, 13% of those arrested were not convicted. But in the same year, 328618 people were shot. 7 times more. Where did they get them? Only from the "contra", no longer from where.
So, there is no need to tell tales about "criminals".

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

Then look at the numbers.

According to archival data of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs (memorandum to Khrushchev from the Ministry of Internal Affairs), from 1921 to 1953, 642 people were executed for counter-revolutionary crimes, and 980 people were imprisoned.

Quote: turk

so don't tell tales about

a bloody tyrant, written by the grandchildren of thieves, bandits and traitors.

[FID]

Quote: S_Baykala

He lived for 32 years in Siberia, among my relatives, acquaintances, relatives of acquaintances I have not heard of any repressed.

I have already written about this many times ... I come from Altai, my father is from Northern Kazakhstan, my mother is from Tutalskaya ... Very few people talk about repression, the closer to the Kremlin - the more descendants of the repressed - this leads to some thoughts .. .

[VseDoFeNi]

Stalin created a great country. Great not only the atomic bomb and price cuts. But also a change in nature.
We still have to study his legacy and continue the work he started.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Polar

Yesterday you were a rabid anti-communist, anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist, and today you began to sing glory to Stalin.

Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.

[Babr]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

Stalin created a great country. Great not only the atomic bomb and price cuts. But also a change in nature.
We still have to study his legacy and continue the work he started.

Strange, only koment came out, with words no longer in doubt.
And immediately grabbed the minuses. As if a bunch of anti-Stalinists around the corner was waiting.
Guys, when do you start to think with your head, and not with emotions?

[baltika-18]

Quote: Babr

Strange, only koment came out, with words no longer in doubt.
And immediately grabbed the cons

If he just wrote, this is one thing, but he put the video on a very dubious content and with a stupid name, so a minus.

[Babr]

Quote: baltika-18

baltika-18

Not convincing. The video lasts more than an hour. (Also did not watch).
I come to the thought that they put it to the one who cares.
If you want to bark, poke each other in a "personal"
A branch then?

[VseDoFeNi]

Stalin's plan for transforming nature.

The measures taken have led to an increase in grain yields on 25-30%, vegetables - 50-75%, herbs - 100-200%. Also, as a result of an increase in investment in agriculture and an improvement in the technical equipment of collective and state farms, it was possible to create a solid fodder base for the development of animal husbandry (machine and tractor stations played a significant role in this). Production of meat and lard in 1951 compared with 1948 increased by 80%, including pork - by 100%, milk production - by 65%, eggs - by 240%, wool - by 50%. As a result, the share of public animal husbandry of collective and state farms in the production of livestock products increased significantly: in 1950 it was 33% for meat, 25% for milk, 11% for eggs. "[2].

However, with the death of Stalin in 1953, the implementation of the plan was curtailed. Many of the forest belts were cut down, several thousand ponds and reservoirs for fish breeding were abandoned, 1949 forest protection stations created in 1955-570 were liquidated at the direction of N. S. Khrushchev.

[baltika-18]

Quote: Babr

Not convincing. The video lasts more than an hour.

I just watched this video. I love you know alternative points of view, especially in science. So here

Quote: Babr

If you want to swim,

I don’t have much to do with it. I visit the site infrequently, I write the same little and only in topics that interest me, rarely minus, only really frank garbage.

[Babr]

Quote: baltika-18

absolutely nothing to do with it.

No, I didn’t mean you at all.
It's just that yesterday (and it was before), all the comments, (by the way, not bad) who give a damn about, were accompanied by a skirmish with their opponents. Not on the topic of what was said, but like "dunak himself" Well, if he wanted to discredit what he wrote , he did it. If not, then it's not smart.
Therefore, I got in today.

[kalibr]

Not at all strange. Simply, there are many people whose opinions differ from yours. You can not prove to them that they are right, they are for you. So they put minuses to you, and you to them. In Civil, it was the same, only they did without + and - there were other arguments!

[datura23]

when the eggs grow ... i.e. never

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.

VseDoFeNi September 8, 2012 10:23 | High treason at the level of the Minister of Defense. Or how the "general in a skirt" dishonors the entire Russian army and its commander in chief
We broke our country twice in the last century. And both times by the hands of the communists. The first time, it was literally with the words - "We will destroy the whole world of violence to the core," and then there was a civil war, a complete decline in the country, millions of victims ... The second time, by the hands of the communists (who doubts, in a search engine - Chubais KPSS, Gaidar KPSS ... and further down the list) destroyed the newly rebuilt country.
The first time they were led to promises - "land to the peasants, factories to the workers." As a result, the land was taken away from the peasants and the workers did not receive the factories.
For the second time, chewing gum and other husks fell on jeans, destroying the second largest economy in the world in terms of GDP.

VseDoFeNi 9 October 2012 09:18 | The United States adopted an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
Yes, yes, the Communists took such good care of the country's defense capabilities that in 1991 they destroyed the country into 15 parts. They left all markets, both external and internal, put the ruble under the Western currency and made Russia a occupied colonial country - a raw materials appendage of the West. Lovely communists made such porridge that still can’t be overwhelmed.
And if you recall how the Communists threw the whole country in 1917, promising the peasants land, and the factory workers, taking the land from the peasants and not giving the workers factories? How did you plunge your country into the nightmares of civil war?

VseDoFeNi 9 October 2012 12:45 | The United States adopted an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
When the Anglo-Saxons with the hands of corrupt brainless communists ruined the USSR, not a single ICBM started, when the submarines were cut, not a single torpedo was launched ...
Learn to think with your own head and learn from history. Our country twice in the last century the Anglo-Saxons ruined by the hands of corrupt and brainless communists.

VseDoFeNi August 18, 2014 05:39 | Square-nested generation. What grew up
I repeat, whether you like it or not, namely the Bolshevik Communists (RSDLP-VKPb-KPSS) TWICE in the last century destroyed our country - in 1917 and in 1991. The publicly celebrated Great October Revolution was the direct cause of the civil war of 1918-1923 in which millions died our citizens, the country's economy was almost completely destroyed. There is a direct analogy with today's Ukraine - the Nikolaev shipyards do not build anything else, the industry is destroyed ... These are already the fruits of 1991. I’m wondering if the commander of the unit whose tanks fired at the government’s house in Moscow was a communist.


Comrades! We Communists are people of a special kind. We are tailored from special material. We are the ones that make up the army of the great proletarian strategist, the army of Comrade Lenin. There is nothing higher than the honor of belonging to this army. There is nothing higher than the title of party member, whose founder and leader is Comrade Lenin. Not everyone is allowed to be a member of such a party. Not everyone is able to withstand the hardships and storms associated with membership in such a party. The sons of the working class, the sons of need and struggle, the sons of incredible hardships and heroic efforts — that is who, first of all, should be members of such a party. That is why the party of Leninists, the party of communists, is at the same time called the party of the working class.
I. Stalin T.6 s.46

[Babr]

Quote: Uncle Joe

Uncle Joe

Well, where is the crime?
I also came across koment with very unpleasant remarks about the Communists.
Darkness.

I recommend the book of my colleague, where without a pencil everything is laid out on shelves. Here are excerpts:
With the advent of Khrushchev, the rebirth of the Communists began.
At the time of Brezhnev, all this smoldered ... with the advent of Gorbachev, the most favorable soil was created for decay - all the foundations of the party and society began to decay and collapse.
As S. Kurginyan very accurately put it, all the guns of Soviet propaganda were loaded with dissident shit and shot into the brains of the people. Undoubtedly, decay was strongly encouraged by the special services of the West. In turn, the decay is due to the fact that, firstly, at one time EVERYBODY was dumped into the party. It consisted of half completely random and even hostile people.
Only here are indicated which communists

Yes, "who gives a damn about" called all the communists ......... I will not repeat myself.
Yes, he is wrong, collecting everything in a heap.
But there was a whole crowd of you there, and not one pointed to his mistake.
It means they themselves are not even a tooth's foot.
Only fool around

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Babr

Well, where is the crime?

As Lavrenty Pavlovich used to say - "How many bastards got divorced. I would shoot, but bastard ... this is not a criminal offense, there is no article."

But there was a whole crowd of you there, and not one pointed to his mistake.

VseDoFeNi (1) January 19, 2015 06:45 ↑ ↓
Let me remind you that in 1991 the corrupt brainless communists destroyed the USSR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...

Oleg147741 (2) January 19, 2015 07:55 ↑ ↓
When a person says such things, you just want to say no censored words!
The Communists defended the country and made up the USSR, which the world did not know, from a broken Russian imria. And it was not the Communists who destroyed the country, but the Jews! And this is not the same thing at all.
It is for certain people who are not deprived of intelligence and push the fables that the commies are to blame for everything! Open your eyes!
The Communists built the Dnieper and Magnitogorsk, went to the frontal on planes and shot down planes sent to enemy columns, covered embrasures with their breasts. We can say that they were ordinary people, but these ordinary people raised the country from the ruins, where tsarism drove it.
So do not call the Gorbachev-Yeltsin trash with those communists who gave their lives. By hanging the Merc label on constipation, the latter remains constipated.

[Babr]

Quote: Uncle Joe

VseDoFeNi (1) January 19, 2015 06:45 ↑ ↓
Let me remind you that in 1991 the corrupt brainless communists destroyed the USSR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...

And what is wrong?
Let me remind you that the USSR was destroyed in 1991 by the corrupt brainless communists TEDDY BEAR, tied the RUBLE to the DOLLAR, deprived our enterprises of work and financing ...
It's all right?
Tagged Secretary General. Communists are also present.
And I will subscribe that they are corrupt and brainless.
I don’t want to conduct a further debriefing. This is equivalent to scratching my fists on a pole. No offense.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Babr

Such "brainlessness", but for a good cause ...

A communist and a renegade with a party card are not the same thing.
The difference between them is about the same as between the realist and the KPI conspiracy theorist

[VseDoFeNi]

You have not brought a single post suitable for this.

Quote: VseDoFeNi

Find at least one entry where I would scold Stalin? Or where would I scold the USSR? Or specifically Soviet power?
I scolded and I will scold the corrupt brainless. Stalin was neither corrupt nor brainless.

[Babr]

Quote: Uncle Joe

The difference between them is about the same as between the realist and the KPI conspiracy theorist

Understood where you're driving. Realist.
I don’t play such games. To prove to someone (I already mentioned the post) the time to lose

[MrK]

Quote: Babr

And what is wrong?

Everything would be correctly told by you if you said: Rotten party nomenclature.
Speaking of brainless communists, you mean me - an ordinary communist. So I did not ruin the Union. And I still regret its destruction and the people deceived (as in the song).
I want to note that realizing the fatalities of the labeled policies, the real Communists scheduled an extraordinary congress of the CPSU for October.
But the creatures have specifically achieved the consent of those labeled on the State Emergency Committee. And then, as you know, the scribe. respectfully

[Babr]

I liked your comment. I even copied it for memory. Everything is sorted out. But you (an ordinary communist) are not mentioned here. Why? Why were you behind the scenes? So the system was vicious, where a bunch of people decide fate. And what kind of bunch You painted well.


I recommend the book of my colleague, where without a pencil everything is laid out on shelves. Here are excerpts:
With the advent of Khrushchev, the rebirth of the Communists began.
At the time of Brezhnev, all this smoldered ... with the advent of Gorbachev, the most favorable soil was created for decay - all the foundations of the party and society began to decay and collapse.
As S. Kurginyan very accurately put it, all the guns of Soviet propaganda were loaded with dissident shit and shot into the brains of the people. Undoubtedly, decay was strongly encouraged by the special services of the West. In turn, the decay is due to the fact that, firstly, at one time EVERYBODY was dumped into the party. It consisted of half completely random and even hostile people.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: mrark

Speaking of brainless communists, you mean me - an ordinary communist.

Well, if you consider yourself as such ... Just do not ascribe to me what I did not say and do not call your interpretations mine.

Quote: VseDoFeNi

They are all different! That is the problem.
There are different people: kind, sympathetic, honest, decent, womanizer, brainless, corrupt, greedy, generous ... very different.
Communists are people, they are all DIFFERENT.

Quote: mrark

I want to note that realizing the fatalities of the labeled policies, the real Communists scheduled an extraordinary congress of the CPSU for October.

And Khrushchev was removed in 1964 ...

[kalibr]

Those who gave their lives - gave. What about 18 million commies in 1991 year? Are they Judas all?

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: kalibr

What about 18 million commies in 1991? Are they all Judas?

They are all different! That is the problem.
There are different people: kind, sympathetic, honest, decent, womanizer, brainless, corrupt, greedy, generous ... very different.
Communists are people, they are all DIFFERENT.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: kalibr

First, carefully re-read, and then, if the question persists, ask it in a specific form.

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

The Communists defended the country and made up the USSR, which the world did not know, from a broken Russian imria.

And who needed it, this USSR? Except the Bolsheviks? If a little less than a million people were shot, millions were sent to the Gulag, and millions more were starved to death. And the list goes on. Who needed this at such a price? If a little bridle was weakened, and this city itself fell to pieces.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

And who needed it, this USSR? Except the Bolsheviks?

[turk]

You are like a child. Who do you want to pair this HS? To me? In vain.
Because the Bolsheviks have no merit in increasing life expectancy and reducing mortality. This is a global trend. And under normal conditions, the numbers would be much better than with the Bolsheviks.
You will soon declare that the fact that the sun was rising is also a merit of the Bolsheviks.
Demagogue.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

the merit of the Bolsheviks is not to increase life expectancy and decrease mortality. This is a global trend.
Demagogue.

Throughout the 19th century and up to the 17th year of the 20th century (over 100 years), the death rate dangled in the corridor from 27 to 30 ppm (the lowest rate is 25 ppm at the end of the 19th century).

By the 26th year, the mortality rate drops to 20 ppm, and continues to decline to 8 ppm in the 53rd year (now in the Russian Federation 12-13 ppm - and where only the global trend has disappeared )

Now look at smallpox



10.04.1919/1936/15 (the height of the Civil) adopted the decree "On compulsory vaccination", and by XNUMX (XNUMX years), smallpox in the USSR is eliminated as a phenomenon.

Europe has been vaccinated against smallpox since the beginning of the 19th century, and in Russia to the Bolsheviks (more than 100 years ago) no one has found time or money for this.

In general, select a broom

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

throughout the 19th century

You still compare with the days of King Peas. When they lived for 40 years. And conclude that there was great happiness from the Bolsheviks. Chatterbox.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

You still

Have you been moonlighting for a long time?

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

Have you been moonlighting for a long time?

This is temporary. At the time of communication with neostalinists.

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: turk

At the time of communication with neo-Stalinists

So in this case, the address was wrong.

[turk]

Quote: Uncle Joe

So in this case, the address was wrong.

How can you be mistaken here, if everything is clear, like God's day?

[MrK]

Quote: Babr

I also came across koment with very unpleasant remarks about the Communists.
Darkness.

Dear Babr. I do not want to offend you, but how do you feel about the fact that I will call you, well, for example, a rotten woman?
My nickname is mrARK. Mr. I put an abbreviation for the name, on the recommendation of the moderator, during registration, since the ARC was already there, and it means Mr..
And what about the communists. Both I and my colleague Kurlyandchik are the author of the book "The Cursed Soviet Power" ... (note in quotes) we bow to the belt even to the memory of the communists who created the USSR, carried out industrialization, defeated the entire Nazi Europe, restored the country after the war. But I will never respect those "communists" who helped to destroy the Soviet Union. These are not communists, but intellectual talkers.
I know about them not by hearsay. In 1976, they pushed me to the liberated Komsomol work. For half a year I spun among the liberated Komsomol members and realized that they are people, to put it mildly, not decent.
The main task of their task is to properly chat, bring vodka and put girls under bosses. I know many honest and decent party workers at the time. But they did not do the weather. And we are not ordinary communists.
After half a year I was invited by the HIGH PARTNER and asked if I would go to lead the Komsomol. I refused, citing that I had already prepared half the dissertation in technical sciences. And he asked for direction in graduate school.
Direction for admission was given. Saying: anyway, after protection you come to us, because we are power.
I did not come and do not regret it. And do not think that I am anti-communist. I consider myself a Stalinist. Sincerely.

[Babr]

Dear Mrark. In no case did not want to offend you somehow.
It’s just that I had a combination of letters in my head (I missed one at all) and I gave it out. I repent before I mentally read it as I wrote it in comments. I was interested in comments, not the hat.
Once again, I apologize.

[Stelth1985]

I agree with you. To be a Stalinist is honor and pride. Nobody else possesses this from other "directions". A Stalinist will NEVER lose his face, even under torment. This is how Comrade Stalin raised his Guard. It was such people who took the whole blow of filthy Europe (I don't write with great contempt) and won. And then they lined up the destroyed at an accelerated pace and were the first to get to Space. Stalin is not just a person, a leader, a leader. This is primarily an idea against which such as scum Svinidze are trying to fight. The Nazis also tried ... they tried. Many went to the grave, and some were left without her. the Americans are trying, in the end they will also tear their navel. The Stalinists can now be safely called the Great People of the Great Epoch. It is the Stalinists who are most afraid of both here and abroad.

For the Honor and Glory of the ancestors!

[kalibr]

The funny thing is that when I said the same thing to my local commies, they said "we have enough cameras for you and your daughter." She was studying at the local pedyushny and there two greyhound young commies hissed at her like that. Then one ran the local Komsomol, the other was published in the local communist newspaper. And so ... the first one received an invitation to become a deputy representative of the president and ... went like a nice little one to represent the "regime". The second one really excelled! Governor Bochkarev wrote that he will lose the elections and then the sun will rise over the region. He won, the communist Ilyukhin lost, and this honest commie received an invitation to work as a PR man for Bochkarev. And went! Then ... for something he was "gone" from the heights and ... he ended up with me in the same department - to teach PR. That is, a pernicious invention of American imperialism! What did you buy? And where are the principles? And so I think that they are principled only until they are put on their paws. How to put all the principles in your pocket! And these are just two examples, and there are others ...

[turk]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

Stalin was neither corrupt,

Really? Have you ever thought, why the hell did the Anglo-Saxons need this rogue? Than he had them so much in 1941. interested in?

[Dart2027]

In the thirties, they brought Hitler to power so that he would fight with Stalin.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

In the thirties they brought Hitler to power so that he would fight with Stalin

PPC. I have no words. Well, what can I answer such a statement?
Unless to object, no, they brought him to power so that Stalin would not land on Mars. Together with the Politburo. And the scoundrel Hitler tore off this landing.

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

PPC. I have no words.

First, Hitler is appointed to a managerial post after a lost election, then he is allowed to create an army and given money for it, then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).
When you know nothing but liberal nonsense, there really is nothing to say.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).

What does the USSR have to do with it?

[Dart2027]

And against whom was he prepared?

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

And against whom was he prepared?

Who cooked something? You would be tied up with conspiracy.
And they would remember that in the 30's the USSR was a dense and backward state at the edge of the world. Which most in Europe have not even heard of. And of course, this state did not interest anyone at all. Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.

[MrK]

Quote: turk

And they would remember that in the 30's the USSR was a dense and backward state at the edge of the world. Which most in Europe have not even heard of. And of course, this state did not interest anyone at all. Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.

We kindly ask you not to forget that Stalin inherited. He had to make colossal sacrifices solely because Russia was brought to such a miserable state by his predecessors - both crowned persons, and dumb dignitaries, and a shrill, agonizing, such as Turkish, intelligentsia. They destroyed everything that could be destroyed, and Stalin had to straighten everything out.
The West, respecting only power, instantly changed tonality. Would you like to get acquainted with a brief overview of foreign reviews, moreover, not by the left-wing press? France, Le Temps newspaper (Tan): “Communism is completing the reconstruction at a gigantic pace, while the capitalist system allows only slow steps ... In France, where land ownership is divided infinitely between individual owners, it is impossible to mechanize agriculture.
The Soviets, while industrializing agriculture, managed to solve the problem ... In the competition with us, the Bolsheviks were victorious».
England, the bourgeois magazine The Round Table (Round Table): “The achievements of the five-year plan are an amazing phenomenon. Tractor plants in Kharkov and Stalingrad, the AMO automobile plant in Moscow, the automobile plant in Nizhny Novgorod, the Dnepropetrovsk hydroelectric power station, the grandiose steel mills in Magnitogorsk and Kuznetsk. A whole network of engineering and chemical plants in the Urals, which is turning into the Soviet Ruhr, all these and other industrial achievements throughout the country indicate that, whatever the difficulties, Soviet industry, as a well-irrigated plant, grows and grows stronger».
And there are thousands and thousands of such newspaper publications.
Kurlandchik A.– “CURSED SOVIET AUTHORITY” ... on Proza.ru

[turk]

Quote: mrark

We kindly ask you not to forget that Stalin inherited. He had to make colossal sacrifices solely because Russia was brought to such a miserable state by his predecessors

Learn history, ignoramus. Stalin's predecessors were a certain Lenin. And it was his "reign" that plunged Russia into shit.
First, this villain staged an armed coup. And, as a consequence, the Civil War. Then he decided to build "War Communism". Then he decided "to ignite the flame of revolution throughout Europe." But I couldn't, because got in the face from Poland. Then he built the NEP. He just didn’t know what he wanted at all. He just kicked the country around.

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

Who cooked something?

The British, French and Americans.

Quote: turk

You would be tied up with conspiracy.

When talking about conspiracy theology, as a rule, they cannot say anything essentially.

Quote: turk

The USSR was a dense and backward state

After the Civil War, it was completely destroyed, but in the 30s they just modernized.

Quote: turk

Some propaganda is heard here and they carry the blizzard.

This is you self-critical

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

British, French and Americans

Against the USSR? How do you feel? They in the 30s and did not know who this USSR was.

Quote: Dart2027

but in the 30s they just modernized

Yes Yes. I heard about it too. Its results were especially clearly visible in the summer and autumn of 1941.

Quote: Dart2027

then as a rule they cannot say anything essentially

Well, to what creature? Poland was appointed the chief overseer of the naughty surrounding aborigines (including Germany) in those days. At first it was enough for everyone. And then it wasn’t enough.
"Versions" he puts forward here, damn it. Suffered from megalomania.

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

How do you feel?

And you?

Quote: turk

They in the 30s and did not know who this USSR was.

Can the source be? I somehow always thought that diplomatic relations were established a little earlier.

Quote: turk

Its results were especially clearly visible in the summer and autumn of 1941.

You do not know, but the presence of technology does not mean that everything will go as if by notes. How much did Hitler endure France?

Quote: turk

Poland was appointed

Was appointed by whom? The overseer is just a servant, so there were masters.

Quote: turk

"Versions" he puts forward here, damn it. Sucked in megalomania

That is, there is still nothing to argue with?

[Cat man null]

Quote: turk

Although they (Germans) are actually his (socialism) along with Comrade Stalin and his gang planned just push for line AA (Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan along the Northern Dvina and Volga)

Yeah .. that is, my uncle comes to my apartment and says: "and now you will live on the balcony .. you have it big, almost six squares" ..

Guess three times my actions

And - yes .. I already heard this bike somewhere .. the training manuals are the same, the campaign

[turk]

Quote: Cat Man Null

that is, my uncle comes to my apartment and says: "and now you will live on the balcony .. you have it big, almost six squares."

And you think that in certain circumstances you will not trample on the balcony? You are mistaken, already running.

Quote: Cat Man Null

Guess three times my actions

Can I clarify? Have you already gotten a boot in your head with a foot? Before deciding on a relocation. Or are you just planning to get one? Clarifying this is very important. Because greatly facilitates the search for compromise.
Stalin had already received it at that time. No, at first he planned to poke his uncle himself. But it didn't work out. Therefore, he rushed to a rival group. It was proudly called the "Anti-Hitler Coalition" and at that time consisted mainly of Britain. There was also the beggar de Gaulle with three French invalids. And about the same beggar Sikorsky with a couple of Polish ones. The United States was not part of the coalition at that time; formally, before Pearl Harbor, it was a neutral state.
Britain agreed to help, but in return demanded a bunch of all sorts of services. Very ruinous and even catastrophic for the country and its population. But Stalin was not interested in anything other than his personal power. So he agreed. Then you know everything.

[Cat man null]

Quote: turk

Have you already gotten a boot in your head with a foot? Before deciding on a relocation. Or are you just planning to get one? Stalin in those days already received

Well, it was not a "boot in the head" .. rather a click on the nose .. you are the scale of that .. measure

Quote: turk

Very ruinous and even catastrophic for the country and its population

Sorry, but was the apartment saved? Uncle got a lesson? The population is restored, the furniture is repaired, and in some places even updated?

Quote: turk

But Stalin was not interested in anything other than his personal power. Therefore he agreed

Nah, not so. But because I wanted to keep the apartment intact. For children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

How is such a model?

[turk]

Quote: Cat Man Null

rather a click on the nose .. you are the scale of something .. measure

That's because I am measuring, therefore, I wrote about the shoe in the head. And not about clicking on the nose.

Quote: Cat Man Null

Sorry, but was the apartment saved? Uncle got a lesson? The population is restored, the furniture is repaired, and in some places even updated?

You do not write nonsense.
There is no apartment. And it could not be. Because she was partially alien.
Uncle feels great. We would have to get to his level someday.
Population cannot be restored by definition. Because any person of reproductive age, even crushed by a tram, is lost to the nation forever. Moreover, he is not alone, but all his non-random offspring. And in this sense, not a catastrophe occurred in Russia, but tragedy national scale. Russia has lost the most important thing that any state has, "human capital". Both in real time and for the future. After that, from the peripheral civilization (Moscow, the third Rome, it was not really a joke) it turned into an ordinary Asian-European roadside.
Furniture is repaired. But this is really all right. Only this furniture has no value. Nonsense, actually.

Quote: Cat Man Null

But because I wanted to keep the apartment intact. For children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

You are my dear. He even spit on his own children. He completely did not care about the fate of his children after his death. And you say that he wanted to preserve something for the future. He wanted to sneeze for this future.
For myself, my beloved, I tried. For your own greatness. Besides the Georgians, that he was these Russians?

[Cat man null]

Quote: turk

There is no apartment. And it could not be. Because she was partially alien

Um .. what are you talking about? I'm talking about the USSR, from which fragments still remain, the largest is the Russian Federation, and you?

Quote: turk

Uncle feels great. We would have to get to his level someday

Again ... I'm talking about Hitler and the German National Socialists .. do they really feel great about themselves?

Quote: turk

Russia has lost the most important thing that any state has, "human capital". Both in real time and for the future. After that, from a peripheral civilization (Moscow, the third Rome, it was actually not a joke) it turned into an ordinary Asian-European roadside

Mdya .. that is, people who after the war all restored and multiplied-this is not people anymore? Ugh on you

Quote: turk

He even spit on his own children. He completely did not care about the fate of his children after his death.

And how is it possible to take care after your death? I definitely don’t know how ..

Quote: turk

He wanted to sneeze for this future.
For myself, my beloved, I tried. For your own greatness.

Well, yes, well, yes .. Everyone would try so hard .. "for their own greatness" ..

Quote: turk

Besides the Georgians, that he was these Russians?

And he was a Russian Georgian .. as it is now - Russian Tatars, Armenians, and many others

Total: you bear, dear, feverish delirium. Or a lot of years? Then this insanity is called .. brain degradation that is.

Sorry for you

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Cat Man Null

Guess three times my actions

Tell yourself that this is a given, and go buy a potbelly stove

[Cat man null]

Quote: Uncle Joe

Quote: Cat Man Null

Guess three times my actions

Tell yourself that this is a given, and go buy a potbelly stove

Avot # @ th !!!

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

I somehow always thought that diplomatic relations were established a little earlier.

Are you a diplomat? So the population of countries consists mainly of diplomats. And the poor backyards of Europe in the rich center were of little interest to anyone.

Quote: Dart2027

How much did Hitler endure France?

Not at all. You probably haven’t heard anything about Vichy? France simply refused to fight for Angosak interests in Europe. That's all.
You are somehow less interested in "Soviet history". She will not bring you to any good. You will not understand what and how it really was. You will daldonet, like Popka, that the Germans all their lives dreamed of, how to root out the "first socialist state in the world". In this case, the communists were pushing for the "elimination of the gains of socialism." Although the Germans are in fact his (socialism) together with Comrade. Stalin and his gang only planned to push them beyond the A-A line (Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan along the Northern Dvina and Volga). And what he would do there, they were of little interest.

Quote: Dart2027

Was appointed by whom? The overseer is just a servant, so there were masters.

Mostly France. But with the approval of Britain. There was, generally speaking, a rather strange Franco-British tandem. Strictly speaking, the tandem parties hated each other. Because were rivals.

Quote: Dart2027

That is, there is still nothing to argue with?

And you didn’t read what was written? Or do not understand?

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

And the poor backyards of Europe in the rich center, few were interested

That is, they still knew. Already good. So how is it known that the USSR was of no interest to anyone?

Quote: turk

Not at all. You probably haven’t heard anything about Vichy?

That is, France voluntarily allowed Hitler to occupy itself up to Paris? Cool. And who of the French politicians wrote about this in his memoirs?

Quote: turk

You are somehow less interested in "Soviet history"

Well, you don’t know the story at all.

Quote: turk

There was, generally speaking, a rather strange Franco-British tandem

That is, it was they who controlled Germany and it was they who brought Hitler to power.

Quote: turk

And you didn’t read what was written?

Quote: Dart2027

First, Hitler is appointed to a managerial post after a lost election, then he is allowed to create an army and given money for it, then he is fed poleurops (Munich conspiracy, a strange war).
When you know nothing but liberal nonsense, there really is nothing to say.

Read it again.

[turk]

Quote: Dart2027

So how is it known that the USSR was of no interest to anyone?

From the camel. Are you very interested in the life of the state of Burkina Faso? Do you know where it is located exactly and what is happening there? Here I am about it. The USSR in the 30s was the same. They heard about him after he, together with Germany, divided Poland.

Quote: Dart2027

That is, France voluntarily allowed Hitler to occupy itself up to Paris?

By evil. But allowed. It is written in any history textbook.

Quote: Dart2027

they controlled Germany

It was they who controlled Europe. As it later turned out, poorly controlled.

Quote: Dart2027

it was they who brought Hitler to power.

Germans. Hitler was brought to power by the Germans. And they held him in power until May 1945. Germans too. No need to fantasize.

Quote: Dart2027

Read it again.

You read it again. Previous paragraph And do not tell the Soviet nonsense. Already sick of Bolshevik tales. Not a word of truth, just a lie. Is always. With or without reason. Just some maniacs of lies.
And end up with conspiracy. "Munich Agreement", "Strange War". Enough of these stupid terms. Everything was simple and logical.

[Dart2027]

Quote: turk

From the camel. You are very interested

I can be interested in anything and it does not matter to anyone except me personally. But this is what those who rule the countries and the top of all kinds of oligarchs are interested in - this is politics. And they knew very well.

Quote: turk

By evil. But allowed.

That is, they lost the war or not? You claim that

Quote: turk

France simply refused to fight for Angosak interests in Europe

That is, they simply surrendered because they themselves wanted to be occupied? The source of this nonsense can be found?

Quote: turk

It was they who controlled Europe.

that is, after all, they brought Hitler to power?

Quote: turk

Germans. Hitler brought to power the Germans

You do not know, but he lost the election.

Quote: turk

"Munich Agreement", "Strange War". Enough of these stupid terms. Everything was simple and logical.

And what is the logic? Enlighten, otherwise it turns out

Quote: Dart2027

When talking about conspiracy theology, as a rule, they cannot say anything essentially.

In any case, your opus is just liberal nonsense. Already sick of the State Department fairy tales. Not a word of truth, just a lie. Is always. With or without reason. Just some maniacs of lies.

[Dry_T-50]

Quote: Polar

Did you happen to hangover today, hero?
Yesterday you were a rabid anti-communist, anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist, and today you began to sing glory to Stalin. Did he take a turn to another cashier?

So what? I’m also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it’s better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs

[Babr]

Quote: Sukhoy_T-50

So what? I’m also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it’s better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs

You read that and you think, "Where am I? Where are my things?"
An anti-Stalinist, albeit moderate. Have you ever wondered what you are comparing?

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Sukhoy_T-50

I am also an anti-Stalinist (moderate), but I think that it is better to have IVS than Svinidze and other Alekseevs

Only I am not an anti-Stalinist. If not for his actions, my father would not have had to release Majdanek, but burn in his crematorium. As, however, and most of our citizens of that time.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BA

[Commissar of the NKVD]

what kind of creatures they are, in order to judge a person whom they don’t even want to clean the toilet! The people ALREADY judged Stalin and the era, the most legitimate, most popular, and therefore the most fair court in 1941-45, when the population had a huge amount of weapons on hand. But he did not turn it, but crushed the Hitler Youth. So whose cow would mumble, and your b would be silent

[NKVD]

Winners are not judged

[ava09]

(C) Winners are not judged

Demented. Who is capable - reasoning. I’m not sure that the criminals who won in 1991 should not be judged ...

[kalibr]

And their accomplices? 18 million CPSU members who did not go to the barricades for communism? After all, they taught in Marxist-Leninist universities what capitalism is ... but ... How about them?

[Reptiloid]

Thanks for the network, Alexey ++++

[lilian]

In 1966, during a visit to Moscow, the President of France de Gaulle, contrary to the protocol, expressed a desire to visit the grave of Stalin. They tried to dissuade him, but the general was adamant. Charles de Gaulle obtained permission to "private", that is, a personal visit to the grave of IV. Stalin. There, the general, laying a wreath, remained in mournful silence for about 20 minutes.

During the visit, the general visited Leningrad, Kiev, Volgograd, Novosibirsk, and the Baikonur Cosmodrome. Moreover, upon arrival in Volgograd, he did not fail to notice the representatives of the French press: “No matter what this city is called today due to the ideological situation in the USSR, in world and Soviet history it will always be only Stalingrad.”

[Dart2027]

Every lion can kick a dead lion

[ava09]

The first and third in the picture - exactly ... And in the center - I doubt that the Trotskyists, when they came to power, glorified him too stubbornly. What is one monument from "democrat" Tsereteli worth?

[igorka357]

Do you doubt the merits of Peter ...?

[ava09]

Only the idiot doubts anything ...) "History is a lie accepted by the majority.", I hope you yourself are not from the "majority"?

[Vladimir73]

It’s just that Peter I is more comfortable with them - the image of a reformer and exalter of Western values ​​...

[strelets]

Here are the creatures. Work out their 30 pieces of silver.
When will pay attention to the textbooks that poison our children ??? Daughters in the 7th grade say - Ivan the Terrible was the most cruel ruler of his time (about Henry VIII and Maria the Bloody, about the Bartholomew’s massacre silent), Peter I JACOB worked as a simple carpenter (although this is a scientifically proven fact).
Where does patriotism come from? Of course, we explained to the child how to. But family and school must be in tune in unison.

[kalibr]

About Heinrich and Maria pass later. Our presentation of information in textbooks is not parallel.

[marlin1203]

Well, right, Peter 1 did not work. HE LEARNED to the ship's carpentry. His work is different - the king!

[Weyland]

Quote: strelets

about Henry VIII and Mary the Bloody

Well, "Bloody Mary" is just the same victim of black PR as Ivan the Terrible: she executed 4 thousand Protestants, but to this day, her popular sister Elizabeth executed 86 thousands Catholics. Well, they don’t feel sorry for them ... Again, the Bloody Mary subjected the Protestants to a painful burning alive, and with the glorious Fire-Bess the Catholics were humanely castrated, gutted and quartered (if they didn’t understand, these were not 3 executions, but one - sequentially ...).
It is not surprising that Bess refused Ivan the Terrible when he clung to her - not only because of his cruelty, but vice versa: only 3 thousand executed - what a liberal squelch, really !?

[rosarioagro]

Yes, there were no repressions at all, it's all Mao Jie Dong invented :-)

[rotmistr60]

Nikolai Svanidze (I think he doesn’t need a special introduction),

This "figure-historian" really needs no introduction. It's amazing how such a hater of Russia and everything Russian promotes his ideas on Russian TV. So someone needs it?

[kalibr]

That's good you see the root. So someone needs ... And to whom?

[press officer]

mdaaaaa ... I remember this ... Lord, forgive me, Chubais Sr. stated that in fact there was no blockade of Leningrad! The Soviet authorities invented all this bad things! Did not have! Food was delivered by carriages, it was just stolen !!!! And the most interesting is that Chubais has a daddy who is a participant in the Second World War! And he even seemed to have some merit! Only apparently died quickly, or died early .. since the sons of the sick grew by a head! Behind the scenes of that Chubais interview, the host said, since you deny the blockade of Leningrad, can you then begin to deny that your father is a participant in the Second World War?

[Seryoga DV]

and with this MUM I was inspired by an old joke:
A woman lies in bed with her lover. Suddenly heard
doorbell, she realizes that her husband came and in a fit of despair
exclaims:
“Lord, make sure he doesn't notice anything!”
Heaven opens and the Lord says:
“Fine, I'll do it, but you will die of water.”
She says:
- Good.
It takes a year, two years. A woman does not bathe, she only bathes in the shower, she tries
if possible by any means avoid water. 3 years pass by, she
unexpectedly wins a ticket to a sea cruise.
She doubted, doubted, and decided to go. She swims on a chic
liner, suddenly a storm begins at night, the ship is sinking in panic. It
exclaims again in a fit of despair:
“Lord, you cannot sink the whole ship alone because of me!”
Heaven opens and the Lord says:
- Yes, I, BL..EY, have been collecting this ship for three years
------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder what would it be? )))

[iury.vorgul]

Just because a father is a war hero does not mean that children will be patriots. An example is the Gaidar family. Grandfather - a hero of the Civil and Patriotic Wars, an excellent writer, father - also fought well, and his son forever disgraced the name in Russian history, well, Masha - political forgive me ... God.

[Seryoga DV]

Nature rests on children. They say.

[V.ic]

Quote: iury.vorgul

Gaidar. Grandfather is a hero of civil

There was a civil war, and he served in the ChON (part of a special purpose), read Soloukhin about that "heroism".

[iury.vorgul]

In 1918, at age 14, he was admitted to the Communist Party (RCP (b)) with the right of consultative vote. At the end of December 1918 he was enlisted in the Red Army. In 1919 he studied at the training courses for command personnel in Moscow. At the end of the year, he was assigned to the army as an assistant platoon commander. He participated in battles on different fronts of the Civil War, was wounded, shell-shocked. In October 1920 he was sent to Moscow to take command courses. In February 1921 he prematurely graduated from the Higher Rifle School in the department of regiment commanders. In March 1921 he took command of the 23rd reserve rifle regiment of the 2nd reserve rifle brigade of the Oryol Military District, then was appointed commander of the battalion at the front

Well, not only did I serve in CHON, once in 17 years I was appointed to command the regiment, and secondly, Soloukhin did not like Communists too much to be objective. And when he lived under the shit democracy, he would have changed his mind, as did Zinoviev.

[sledge]

"History is just a version of the events that happened in our interpretation" Napoleon Bonaparte
Nothing to add

[evil partisan]

Moscow International University (MUM

Add one letter - "U" to the name of this "university" (it will turn out to be MUMU ...) and send an inspector there. Gerasim ....

[Seryoga DV]

Moscow University of International Mind?

[Yun Klob]

Quote: ava09

The first and third in the picture - exactly ... And in the center - I doubt that the Trotskyists, when they came to power, glorified him too stubbornly. What is one monument from "democrat" Tsereteli worth?

Tsereteli pile monument Columbus. And when the Americans sent him to his mother in a quiet boat, Columbus sawed off his head and put Peter on. Real contemporary art.

[Weyland]

Thanks for the info! And I kept wondering why Peter was dressed in mods of two centuries ago (at that time)!

[evil partisan]

Knight of the Commander Cross "For Merit to the Republic of Poland"

I propose to adopt a law on the deportation of Russian citizens who were awarded (and accepted these awards) with state awards of countries hostile to Russia, to the territory of these countries.

[VeryBravePiggy]

Fine. To shoot the whole gang for the lack of honor and common sense.
It can be carried out immediately, but always in the form of the NKVD, from a TT pistol, until the 50th issue. This will be historical justice.
A gathering of macaques undertook to judge the lion. Go nuts.

[kalibr]

The problem is that offers like yours don't lead to anything. The death penalty is prohibited in the Russian Federation, there is no corpus delicti. So there are people in their own right. And your personal opinion, even if it is true three times, is worth little, isn't it?

[Aleksander]

Quote: kalibr

even if it is fair three times,

Everyone has it-OWN understanding of justice .....

[Aleksander]

Quote: kalibr

even if it is fair three times,

Everyone has it-OWN understanding of justice .....

[MrK]

Quote: VeryBravePiggy

A gathering of macaques undertook to judge the lion.

I agree. I will supplement it.
It is not Stalin who is afraid of them, but we Russians when we become ourselves. It is not Stalin who pours their shit and imported Russophobes. What to Stalin before their slops? Who are they and who is Stalin? It's not even funny ... Slandering Stalin, forgive me for the rude, but exact word, they “lower” our Russian (Soviet) ancestors, grandfathers and great-grandfathers, and through this we too. They, today, convince us - our ancestors were not the victors of Europe, they were not !!! They were Stalin's slaves. And they were supposed to be slaves of the Germans or Jews, but those under Stalin did not break off.

[avia12005]

Wretched they all ... And the spirit, and the mind.
Yuri Afanasyev died. The author of the definition of "aggressive and docile majority"
http://vz.ru/society/2015/9/14/766805.html

[evil partisan]

Quote: avia12005

The author of the definition of “aggressively obedient majority”

And also the term "Stalinist-Brezhnev Supreme Soviet".

[atos_kin]

All who defame the history of their country spread mold spores to weaken and destroy it. You can deal with mold by simple airing (brains). There is work for the FSB.

[kalibr]

But you prove that they discredit the history of the country! And not just in words, but motivated, with documents in hand. You can not! So you just let off steam, and it is cheap. And the FSB will not do this. Again, our Russian - that someone came and did for us. Here's a tiny piece of wrong expose, eh? And tell me - here lies! And this statement should not be based on the memoirs of the grandmother, but on serious documents. But there is no such thing, so how many pairs do not let out, and the camel, as it was going, will go. It turns out that apart from GAV-GAV you can not do anything, And for a real patriot this is not enough!

It is strange that some put a minus for it. Where is the wrong here, juggling, the substitution of the thesis? And GAV-GAV - he wrote about himself to himself on the profile.

[atos_kin]

Quote: kalibr

But you prove that they

There is no need to prove anything, because it is impossible to cite at least ANYTHING that has been DONE and not said by these pygmies in comparison with the results of the work of the greatest statesman, who they are trying to discredit and not only him in the memory of the people of the country. In the history of the country from them there is NOTHING except the stink.

[kalibr]

You think so, but others need to prove it. You speak words, and words are air. And they will answer you that the greatest states in peacetime without war do not so easily disappear from the map of the world, and what will you tell them to this? That they betrayed, deceived ... And it turns out that "there" everyone is smart, and we have fools, which a priori cannot be. So, believe me, you need to prove it if you want to be taken seriously.

[atos_kin]

Somehow I don’t remember that under J. Stalin “the greatest states in peacetime without war disappeared so easily from the map of the world”. They blaspheme the USSR only because it is associated with the name of Stalin. I am not going to tell them, just like you, because there is NO economic benefit for the development of Russia from this MUM, and there is a lot of harm. I'm not asking you to take me seriously. Serious people in MUM call themselves the elite.

[dmb]

And you, my dear fellow, will not succeed with evidence for one simple reason. Unlike the illiterate victims of the Unified State Exam, even Yezhov, who enroll in the "Trotskyists", these scoundrels are literate and they have a lot of evidence of specific mistakes and crimes committed by Stalin and his entourage (moreover, according to Soviet laws in force at that time). But they are aiming not personally at Stalin, but at socialism. Stalin is the past, a historical figure, nothing more. But they cleverly use his mistakes and crimes to preserve the power of capital. Every time people begin to think about the reasons for the increase in the number of billionaires in Russia and the decline in the standard of living of the population, power through the mouth of their heralds, like the Starikovs. so Svanidze says: "Do you want a Gulag?" or "Do you want madana?" And the citizens shut up and rejoice in the success of Sechin and Usmanov. It's just that the authorities use Stalin's bogey for one category and the Maidan bogey for another, and there is also Chubais's bogey, uniting the overwhelming majority. sniffed this bogey personally.

[Logos]

between Stalin and Hitler you must certainly put an equal sign

And that, it is quite possible and put. That Hitler, that Stalin (before the Second World War) did not accept the Russian people and were going to destroy it precisely as a nation. The Bolsheviks, within the framework of the struggle against "great-power chauvinism", strengthened the small-town nationalism of local nations and gave them purely Russian territories (the same Donbass or Northern Kazakhstan, for example), and all Russian, harsh purges on the basis of class, "cleaning out" all the best Russian in order to bring out a new breed of "Soviet man"

Hitler, if the Ost plan is to be believed, planned to do approximately the same: to strengthen the nationalism of non-titular nations, cutting off pieces of Russian territory with them and to "cleanse" the Russian people with massive repressions in order to assimilate them with the German nation in the future. Only repressions, unlike Stalin, were planned to be carried out not according to the class, but according to the anthropological principle: he does not look like a European, collect things, go beyond the Urals or to the execution cellar

The situation was saved only by the world war, in which Stalin and his entourage realized that they could not rely on the mythical proletariat and the no less mythical "Soviet people", but could only on the Russians, and therefore the former national policy of oppression of the Russian nation was curtailed and the policy began Russian revival

Anyway, please note that in Hitler's Germany there was the same socialism, only national socialism, and in the Union - international socialism, the difference between which differed only in the fact that the Germans divided "theirs" and "outsiders" according to nationality , and the Bolsheviks - according to the class.

Here, it would be nice to draw a parallel to England and the USA before the coupe, but there generally imperial chaos was going on at the time with the extermination and addiction to the drug (literally) of entire nations, while these atrocities were accompanied by clever conversations about humanism and human rights

[Logos]

There are cons, no objections. True eyes prick or what?)

[evil partisan]

Quote: Logos

And what, it is quite possible to deliver.

For this, you can put ...

[V.ic]

Ah yes, the mongrels, something "fought"! It's time to chain! You can even one, all mentioned in this article.

[Volzhanin]

The walruses are swooping down again. They have already lifted everyone with their blatant lies. Russian Jews have no sense of self-preservation. This is bad for them, but the situation needs to be changed!
Well, by God, they will wait for "pogroms", creatures ...

[Million]

5 column was under Stalin, but only he successfully fought with it, and the current rulers flirt

[Mangel olys]

There probably without MGER (shelter gambling establishments) could not have done. Well, but on this issue more specifically: no matter how JV Stalin was trying to pour mud, it will not work, his words and deeds speak for themselves. For example:

“We must build our economy so that our country does not become an appendage of the world capitalist system, that it is not included in the general system of capitalist development as its subsidiary enterprise, so that our economy does not develop as an auxiliary enterprise of world capitalism, but as an independent economic unit ”Relying mainly on the domestic market, relying on the link between our industry and the peasant economy of our country.”
I.V. Stalin 1925

Source: http://www.great-country.ru/

Well, now read the report of Academician S. Glazyev, Advisor to the President: http://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/140998/

Don't you see anything similar? Everything returns, our country has no alternative. JV Stalin, as if looking into the water. I respect him and his children and grandchildren teach him to respect. And the fact that the school is cared for at school is nothing more interesting for youthful inquisitive minds.

[kalibr]

But this is just a mistake! Not in 1925, but in 50 and later, this thesis was wrong. It is clear that one cannot become a raw material appendage. But in the conditions of nuclear missile weapons, the only salvation from destruction is not the number of warheads, but ... close economic integration! Otherwise, a rampant arms race and ... a less economically developed country will lose! And so ... nobody will throw bombs at their factories, the consumers of Coca-Cola and jeans are "our people"!

[I am]

You tell all this to comrade Gaddafi and the people of Libya. Even as they will. There will not be only one case - if we are stronger and smarter than them.

[Selevc]

After all, the "trial" of a person in the history of the country is nothing else, except as a gathering of public and political shouting lilliputians who are trying to once again shout to their satisfaction, satisfying each other, does not remind ... And again the classic question is relevant: "And who are the judges?"

Yes, really - and who are the judges? Stalin can be compared with all the leaders of Russia-the USSR in the 20th century, as they say based on the results of their activities ... Stalin’s methods were very cool - but when they usually yell about it in the 5th column, they are always silent about something else ... As they say, they always say And without saying B ... That is, we are presented with a half-truth that is worse than a lie !!! Namely, they do not say in what political context (in what external conditions) the Stalin reforms were carried out !!! After all, the rest of the world did not expect Russia which, after the Civil and Intervention, simply stood on the edge or already fell into the abyss ...
The activity and the very figure of Stalin can be compared with his political opposite - MS Gorbachev ...
Here are just some thoughts on this:
As it was under Stalin: The USSR was attacked by the strongest state at that time, which subjugated almost the whole of Europe ... The enemy was standing near the walls of the capital and near Leningrad - to a person little familiar with the Soviet (Stalinist) system it might seem that everything - the war was lost ... But let's listen to the veterans - and they they say - We knew that we would win !!! Like this ? This is illogical, this is not a systematic European approach !!! People dying of hunger in Leningrad knew that they would win? Hitler believed that he had already won - after all, the Soviet army suffered such terrible defeats in the 41st ... But no - Russia is standing !!! Of course the enemy was furious, but in the end he was defeated and defeated !!!
We can say that the country lived according to Stalin - it was he - the leader put the whole matter so that no one even thought about the defeat of their homeland !!! The enemy was very strong but the Stalinist system was even stronger !!!
And what do we have after the death of Stalin: 1. The USSR carried out a technical revolution. 2. The USSR twice restored its economy from ruins and became the strongest state on the planet. 3. In the USSR, a completely clear educational system was in place, science, medicine, culture, etc. were booming. etc. 4. The USSR surrounded itself with allied countries ... 5. The authority of the USSR was unquestioned throughout the world ...
As it was under Gorbachev: Many people know this firsthand ... But if you step aside from emotions, you can say that Gorbachev’s career is the brightest way for a spy in power ... Gorbachev came to power with a still strong country, with a dilapidated but still working Stalinist system, with the full support of the people ... But what did he do? He declared ECONOMIC REFORMS but committed POLITICAL !!! After a very short time of simulating activity
took up the Union Treaty - that is, a case completely unrelated to the economy !!! It's just as ridiculous as skiing on the asphalt or go fishing in the desert !!! As a result of criminal manipulations with the Union Treaty, the USSR was destroyed !!! And then went the process of direct destruction of the country ended with a putsch theater with a mole-clown in the title role !!! But were there any serious attempts at economic reform? I don’t remember something !!! Further, the flight of the mole and his family over the hill and rewarding him with enemies under the guise of all sorts of international awards !!!

Bottom line: 1. Gorbachev left the destroyed and divided country. 2. Gorbachev sowed the seeds of trouble in the minds of entire generations. 3. The Soviet space completely degraded in terms of economics, science, medicine, education, etc. 4. The post-Soviet space was surrounded by overt or covert enemies ...
The overall result is as follows: I wish the Russian people to live, think and act according to Stalin !!! And the worms from the 5th column burn in hell and be damned by their descendants forever !!!

[kalibr]

Everything is correct. One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have for doing this? What did he not have that he would not have had under the USSR? What Tukhachevsky, Malenkov, "Shepilov, who joined them", Khrushchev did not have ... They had everything, didn't they? And power and money ... Or got more than they had?

[Selevc]

Quote: kalibr

One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so? What did he not have that which he would not have had under the USSR?

The motives are obvious ... The Soviet elites revolved in the Stalinist system and enjoyed its privileges ... But these privileges were limited - the higher the official went up the ranks, the stricter the restrictions ... For example, an official at the ministerial level in the West is almost always a man at the rich man's level -millionaire ... And in the USSR it was impossible to possess large personal property ... That is, there were no cars, cottages and money, but it was impossible to show it off and it was often official and not its own ... But Soviet officials often visited abroad and saw all the charms of their Western colleagues ... They certainly wanted the same life ...
We can conclude that the Soviet elite in the 60-80s revolved in the Stalinist system but wanted to bring elements of capitalism into it ... But this could not be done without destroying the Stalinist system - which was done at the end of the 80s ...

[kalibr]

So everything is logical! The fish is looking for where it is deeper, and the man - where is better! This means that the USSR should also be necessarily destroyed as soon as the highest echelon officials began to go abroad. Clear. Thanks for clarifying.

[yuriy55]

Quote: kalibr

All is correct. One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so? What did he not have that which he would not have had under the USSR? What did not have Tukhachevsky, Malenkov, "Shepilov, who joined them," Khrushchev ... They had everything, didn't they? And power and money ... Or got more than they had?

Who are you talking about now? About Stalin? Motives do what?
Tukhachevsky? Maybe Voroshilov?
Khrushchev?
There is such a joke.
Khrushchev had a dream. He walks along the alley where monuments to Marx, Lenin, Stalin and him are installed. Each one has huge letters "TK". No name, no dates. He asks God:
- Lord! What does this mean - "TK"?
The Lord answers him:
- Marx is a theorist of capitalism.
Lenin is a theorist of communism.
Stalin is the creator of communism.
- And I?
- And you are aphid corn.

These figures did not have the core of a statesman. So - retinue. Who is better, who is abominable.

If you take the current government. She has a lot of things, but unlike Stalin, she hopes to grab onto the other side ...

[kalibr]

So I say - predetermined. Stalin - one, and one in the field is not a warrior. He died and everything ... the officials went abroad and wanted to live like there. They sat down and pissed off the Union! I understand you so -yuriy55?

[Doctorleg]

I heard another version of this joke - Marx - theorist, Lenin - the creator, Steel - the tyrant, Khrushchev - yap of communism

[MrK]

Quote: kalibr

One thing is unclear - MOTIVES. What motives did he have to do so?

It is unfortunate that you did not understand the main motive. As far back as 1937, Stalin warned that the party would be freed from economic activity. That the parties are left with only functions: propaganda and agitation, and the selection of candidates for deputies. And he achieved this at the 19 congress.
But to lose the ability to manage the national economic complex means to lose power. That party talkers did not forgive him. Khrushchev overturned the decisions of the 19 congress and strengthened the dictatorship of the party.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: mrark

But to lose the ability to manage the national economic complex means to lose power.

In the book "Power" Old Men calls it "power physics".

[Glot]

And in my office there is a portrait of Stalin and during the audit, the lady inspector asked:
- And who is this?

Come on ... Is it really that bad ?! )))

[Uncle Joe]

And now the elite has decided once again to make itself known, and, judging by the materials of Tatyana Voevodina, she has chosen the usual scheme for this - gathering a liberal, God forgive, intelligentsia, whose whole conscious life is devoted to one thing - how to smear again liberal shit that period of history when the Soviet Union broke off the teeth of the then "partners". Lubricate - once, do not give about yourself - forget two. Really didn’t let you forget

The author once again tries to portray himself as a naive Chukchi youth, while “forgetting” that it is impossible to serve two masters ...

Putin told what he was talking with Solzhenitsyn:
"We talked about the current situation, about the future of the country. For my part, I drew the attention of the writer to the fact that some of the steps that we are taking today are largely in tune with what Solzhenitsyn wrote."
"But I especially want to thank you for your work for the good of Russia. You continue your activities today, you never waver in your views, but stick to them in your life."
http://www.newsru.com/russia/12jun2007/solj.html

Putin: Soviet troops in Germany - occupation forces - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvIhf1EFMWg

“They say that the stagnant Brezhnev times will soon return. Firstly, in Soviet times, and even in the early 90s - I don’t want it to look like an indiscriminate criticism, there was a lot of positive, but I’m not I will remember that the post-war Soviet leadership, the Soviet post-war leaders worked as intensively as I or the current President Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev do, "Putin said in an interview with three Russian federal TV channels.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/212533

24.11.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX Putin ordered to erect a monument in Moscow to the victims of political repression.
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/24/11/2014/54720b35cbb20f053452ddf6

[AlexSK]

-------------------

[Nikolay K]

If you break a couple of ribs and put a gun to your temple, you may also write a denunciation on someone. So who will be to blame for this, you or the one who holds the gun at your temple?

[AlexSK]

Come on ribs. We have a neighbor, in the village he wrote voluntarily denunciations, no one clearly broke anything for the residents. And I assure you, there were a lot of such people and there are those who come out with envy or personal scores, thus, but someone is by nature a snitch.

[Nikolay K]

There is such a pattern: 5% of people always steal, 5% never steal, and the remaining 90%, depending on the situation. The same pattern applies to many other aspects of human behavior. Someone is ready to knock always and with great pleasure, someone cannot be broken with a pistol at the temple, but most ordinary people who are forced to bend under circumstances.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: Nikolai K

There is such a pattern: 5% of people always steal, 5% never steal, and the remaining 90%, depending on the situation.

This is the law of Gauss, it is the law of normal distribution or the normal law of distribution.

[VseDoFeNi]

Quote: AlexSK

and someone by the nature of snitches.

By nature, we are all children of God, but in education ... very different.

[TOR2]

In the history of any state there are dark spots that you need to know, and accordingly draw conclusions. In the middle of the 0s, several officials openly said that 30% of convicts were for crimes that they did not commit. So far have you gone from the Gulag gentlemen liberals?

[vezunchik]

Who writes now both in our country and in Ukraine?

[Roman 1977]

What our children are taught, or "The Trial of Stalinism"

Somehow like this...

[yuriy55]

And in my office there is a portrait of Stalin and during the audit, the lady inspector asked:
- And who is this?

I had to say that grandfather ... would not be a mistake ...

Quote: Nikolai K

If you break a couple of ribs and put a gun to your temple, you may also write a denunciation on someone. So who will be to blame for this, you or the one who holds the gun at your temple?

It seems that Joseph Vissarionovich himself came and broke ... But what about the king and retinue? And how to disguise your worthlessness to the authorities?

Stalin is as great as his detractors are shallow!

[kalibr]

Great, but not understood by retinue, huh?

[xoma58]

And what do we want from this world? It is not clear why these agents of the State Department are still walking free.

[venaya]

Quote: turk

Quote: Down House

authorities in no way makes them political criminals!

Lieutenant General Vlasov
Major General Trukhin
Major General Malyshkin
Major General Zakutny
Major General Blagoveshchensky
Brigadier Commissar Zhilenkov
Colonel Bayersky
Colonel Neryanin
Criminals? Or political? How to count them?

Criminals? Or political? How to count them? - It is necessary to consider them only as state changes (or criminals), with the exception of cases of judicial errors, from which no one is ever safe from anywhere.

[kalibr]

Quote: kalibr

You give them the right concepts based on the memoirs of grandmother. And then at the university, the professor will show students copies of the documents, send him to the archive to read the Pravda newspaper, the Stalin banner and pay attention to inconsistencies and inconsistencies. And your child will see that his father is ... stupid. Aloud may not speak, but will cease to respect in the soul. I've already seen this ...

Already twenty, and then more people have figured it each on themselves and put a minus - how ridiculous it is!

[wild weld]

Yes, of course, the judges of history are the most liberal of whom you could see in our country, and not whether to create a trial of them and then begin to comprehend the story. Is this our past, is it good or bad, but it is ours and there is nothing to stir it up.

[VeryBravePiggy]

Of course, my opinion at this moment in time will not be able to influence the fate of the liberal scum. It's one thing if you call this disgrace "expression of your own opinion." And not to condemn, and not to punish for it. But if what they do is called a crime, spitting on our ancestors and inciting hatred (and this is exactly the spitting on the deeds of our great-grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers, causing uncontrolled aggression and provoking a person to perform some sanitary measures - like shooting mad dogs), completely falling, if not under execution, then under imprisonment - then such coverage of the activities of Svinidzov, Goizmanov and other rabble is justified, useful and fair. Tolerance does not lead to good. Tolerast today, and pederast the next day.
And, a small legal remark: only the COURT has the right to judge a person and accuse him of committing CRIMES, and not a handful of renegades of a muddy nationality who have not erected anything except fecal statues in their lives. And the process in Russia is adversarial, that is, both sides should listen. Moreover, the criminal prosecution ceases with the death of the suspect / accused.
Another attempt to shoot shit in the direction of a man to a level which neither they nor their children can ever reach.

[Baloo]

Or maybe for a start the trial of Trotsky, Sverdlovsk, Kamenev, Zinoviev and other agents of influence stuck to the revolution? Remember the interview with Keresky’s grandson? Grandfather said: 12 people gathered and called Trotsky in America. And all, the February revolution took place. The ambassador of England tried to persuade the king to abdicate on the eve of the February Revolution, after February the king succumbed, instead of showing iron will. He asked to wait for the Queen of England, she refused. Sverdlov ordered the king and his family to be killed so that they would not become a symbol for the white movement.
I am the great-grandson and grandson of "enemies of the people" and I assess Stalin as a statesman who saved the country. The victims were often the executioners themselves, just as the executioners became victims. The time was like that.
In vain specialists keep silent about the current Trotsky-Sverdlov. They need to be actively exposed and not at night, but in prime time.

[turk]

Quote: Balu

I am the great-grandson and grandson of "enemies of the people", and I estimate Stalin as a state official,

My condolences to you. Nothing taught you. And no longer teach.

Quote: Balu

preserving the country.

And what is this achievement?

Quote: Balu

It was such a time.

This "such time" was organized by the Bolsheviks. Led by Stalin.

[Weyland]

Some forum users with foam at the mouth blame Stalin, others just as eagerly condone and claim that allwhat he was doing was right.

Mao in 1958 proposed to evaluate Stalin's activities as "70% of achievements, 30% of errors"(1958), emphasizing that the question of Stalin is not only Soviet.
Interestingly, the Communist Party of China's official assessment of the role of the Great Helmsman in history absolutely the same: Comrade Mao had 70 percent correct and 30 percent wrong.

On the one hand, it allows you to fix any errors - and on the other, try to water Mao with mud there! Not so long ago, one tried it: see http://lenta.ru/articles/2015/04/24/mao/. They have such a 293rd article in the Criminal Code, like our 282nd ...

[VeryBravePiggy]

Mistakes happen at all. And I’m not going to justify or blame Stalin. But to doubt the greatness and significance of this man can only be a complete nerd.
The question is the constant and peremptory slopping of the Soviet past, where does all this trash (pseudo-intellectual pseudo-elite) come from. Moreover, they were not brought up in the gateway, but received all possible and impossible benefits from that state, which they now mercilessly criticize and accuse of all mortal sins.

[turk]

Quote: VeryBravePiggy

and those who received all possible and impossible benefits from that state

And why did you decide that is the maximum? Maybe people from a normal state would get many times more? Have you thought about this? Think it over.

[turk]

Quote: Weyland

Stalin as "70% of achievements, 30% of mistakes" (1958),

You are wrong to compare Mao with Stalin. It is more appropriate to compare Stalin with another Chinese "friend of the USSR" (at first), Chiang Kai-shek. How many percent of errors did he have? Not at all. If he had not fled to Taiwan under the protection of the Americans, the Chinese would have torn him to pieces. Because they are smart people.

[Weyland]

Quote: turk

It is more appropriate to compare Stalin with another Chinese "friend of the USSR" (at first), Chiang Kai-shek.

Stalin and Mao, unlike Chan, won...
By the way, why not compare also Mao with Chiang Kai-shek? Vladimirov, our ambassador in 1942-45 in the "special area" (ie, controlled by Mao) wrote that the biographies and character are very similar - to the point that the current marriage of both was 4th! (see P.P. Vladimirov, "Special Region of China")

[turk]

Quote: Weyland

Stalin and Mao, unlike Chan, won ...

You are mistaken. And Chan won. The Japanese. But then, after the war, because Already changed his mind about building communism, Mao was overthrown with the help of the USSR. Because Mao promised to build communism in China.

[Weyland]

Quote: turk

And Chan won. The Japanese.

How was Jodl, when signing the surrender, asked about the representative of France: "And what these - did they defeat us too? "

[S_Baykala]

Quote: turk

In the same 1938. out of 638509 people arrested 535960 people. was arrested for counter-revolution + 57366 more people. for anti-Soviet agitation (chatter). Total 93% (!!!) of counter-revolutionaries and anti-Sovietists. And only 7% of "criminals". And how many of these "criminals" were ChSIRs?
And in the same year 328618 people. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). was shot. Only shot. And how many died later in the camps?
..............
However, the majority of people like you on this site, as I can see. Right hotbed of evil spirits.

Dear, look at these numbers (census of the USSR):
1929 152 000 000
1937 162 500 000
1939 168 524 000
1941 196 716 000
1946 170 548 000
1951 182 321 000
1959 208,800 000

Now think. These are figures of official statistics. This is not a certificate from the Ministry of Internal Affairs-NKVD, this is not data for Khrushchev, this is not an extract from Solzhenitsy. THIS IS OFFICIAL STATISTICS. Taken by me from our potential enemies (I did not mention): from Wikipedia.
So, we are thinking: 37, 39,41 year, population growth 34 million. People (according to the liberals) are imprisoned, executed by millions, and in this situation (for example, an average family lives, imagine yourself in this situation), they rivet new children increase fertility - 34 mln for 4 of the year (dig-pound !!!) Are they, idiots? After all, they can come and close at any time, send hz where or to shoot. Yes, according to your figures, there was no one to give birth to, a million were shot, another 2 million were shot, guarded, etc. From whom did women give birth? Explain to me - how is this so? I am a little familiar with logic: so this is illogical.
Maybe we now need to start grabbing everyone, jailing, shooting - and in 2020 the Russian population will be under 180 million - that’s how it turns out that the demography needs to be corrected!
Did they give birth from fear?
Yeah, I’m representing a typical conversation in the kitchen: we have five children, but maybe they will shoot me tomorrow (almost all the neighbors were shot or transplanted after all), let's get another one. You, as the wife of an enemy of the Soviet regime, will easily grow them.
Do you understand how this sounds crazy? But this situation should have happened in every average family. Population growth does not come from repression, but from stability and confidence in the future. See statistics. And compare it with 91-2015 year. At least in Russia and Belarus. And ask yourself: why so ??

[turk]

Quote: S_Baykala

So, we are thinking: 37, 39,41 years, population growth 34 million.

Think less. And imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. what then would be population growth.
Another demagogue. A fan of moving arrows HZ where.

[S_Baykala]

Quote: turk

Think less. And imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. what then would be population growth.
Another demagogue. A fan of moving arrows HZ where.

Categoricality, intransigence, obstinacy, etc. Or youth, or ...
imagine what would happen if the Bolsheviks, with their hunger, repression, etc. would not be. If my grandmother had ........ If you weren’t on this site, it would have been much cleaner.
Lover translate arrows HZ where
Yes, I am like this.....

[turk]

Quote: S_Baykala

If my grandmother had ........

So you think about what would have happened if he had been. And for one thing and think about the homeland. What could it be without hunger, executions, and other Bolshevik crap.

[kalibr]

And Sikorsky would not have left, and Kartveli, and Seversky, and ......... would have constituted the honor and glory of Russia!

[LMaksim]

He studied at school since the early 90s, graduated in 2002m. At the lessons of history, we were given a one-sided assessment of the historical events that were associated with the personality of Stalin. Very often it was negative and unreliable. I was fond of history and therefore could easily study several different sources and draw conclusions.
As for my personal opinion, I believe that Stalin came to the helm of the USSR at the right and very difficult time for the country. Of course, something was done wrong, but overall it was worth it. We are now talking in Russian. And the current presidents make mistakes. Under Stalin, there were not only repressions, but large-scale projects were being implemented! But they try to hush up about it, now it is inconvenient. I believe that if Putin or Medvedev led the country, the Great Patriotic War would be played. Medvedev would have returned only from fishing at 44m.

[serverny]

Eh, what a vile person this turk is, he is absolutely consciously openly lying and distorting facts. And when it is pressed against the wall, it merges quietly, because cannot acknowledge a mistake by the baseness of the soul.

I went to look for the "black list" function in the settings, I have no strength to read his Russophobic nonsense.

[Buffalo]

The name of I.V. Stalin (Dzhugashvili) - like a litmus test, allows you to judge a person by his reaction to the name of the great leader of the USSR.
Both families of my grandfathers were dispossessed at one time. I never saw my father’s parents, they died in 1934. And my maternal grandfather never spoke badly about Stalin, he fought himself, his older brother (he died in the very first battle, in 1942), and my grandfather’s eldest son. Before the war, my grandfather was under investigation, on a false charge. When the Germans attacked, he was released, but being under investigation did not go away and he ended up in a penal company.
Immediately to the front line, near Mtsensk. In the first battle, only one in three had a rifle in their hands. After the first battle, everyone already had rifles (2/3 of the soldiers died in the first battle). Next - the environment, hunger, a breakthrough to their own. Soon after leaving the encirclement, the grandfather was heavily shell-shocked and sprinkled with earth from the burst of a heavy howitzer shell. A fighter of another part leaving the encirclement stopped smoking on the side of the road and accidentally noticed his hand sticking out of the ground and moving his fingers on it. Pulled out, saved. So, the grandfather never spoke badly of Stalin and always treated him with the greatest respect.

[Buffalo]

There was such a front-line intelligence officer who captured more than 79 "languages", Hero of the Soviet Union, Vladimir Vasilyevich Karpov. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%BB
%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B5%
D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
I had a chance to meet him in the aviation museum, in Monino near Moscow, in the last years of his life. And later I read his books (after the war he served in the KGB, was a writer, and at the end of his life he became the Secretary of the Writers' Union). Before the war, he, a cadet of a military school, was repressed. He was convicted and was in the camp. But, during the war, he asked to go to the front and his request was granted. V.V. Karpov had a personal interest in figuring out everything to the smallest detail, in terms of repression, and he did it! Read his book about I.V. Stalin, "Generalissimo" - you will not regret it!
http://royallib.com/book/karpov_vladimir/generalissimus.html
Video:
http://www.izstali.com/films/2-general.html
About V.V. Karpov:
http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=1019

[iouris]

Everyone present here will also be judged. The school will not teach them anything else.

[Abracadabrus]

Well, if SUCH people scolded Comrade Stalin, then apparently Joseph Vissarionovich was a really good ruler.

[delvin-fil]

Quote: turk

Take an interest in the Internet.

Great Psaki style argument!

[tor978]

The fact that Stalin restored the country from the devastation of the civil war, and then after the Second World War, I think very few people care. And if the question arises of whether to send your child to such a university, even for free suddenly, where they are trying to make a good ruler a tyrant, then in no case will I ever give it there. We would also remember the reign of Ivan the Terrible and compare it with the "enlightened" Europe of that time.