Military Review

We are healthier? ..

99
Eternal questions: “Who is to blame?”, “What should be done?” And “How can we improve the quality of medical care?” In order not to reduce the discussion of the third question mentioned here to the “kitchen political science” option, the All-Russian Popular Front decided to enter, so to speak, with trumps . - The President of Russia was invited to the discussion under the loud title “For high-quality and affordable medicine” dedicated to raising the level of medical care. And the conversation with Vladimir Putin turned the discussion into a kind of “straight line” with the president ...


We are healthier? ..


The list of topics discussed at the forum is wide - and as wide as the scope of medical care itself. Here are just a few areas for discussion that were identified on the ONF forum: problems of drug supply, import substitution in pharmacology, lack of professional medical personnel, closing of medical and obstetric centers in rural settlements, problems of emergency care, increasing the prestige of the medical profession, medicine and insurance companies, the ratio of salaries of the main doctors and ordinary doctors of clinics, sectoral corruption. In general, there are plenty of problems, and if you try not to pay attention to these problems, expecting that in the end everything will resolve itself, then it will not only draw new problems in demography, but also quite tangible social tension.

One of the main problems that often entails many related problems is the very attitude of Russians towards their own health. For the overwhelming majority of us, what a sin to conceal, the “health!” Toast is much more important and more attractive than the health itself ... And if it does not prick in the side, the leg does not hurt (hand, head, etc.), the heart does not remind of itself (kidneys, stomach, etc.), then medicine for us, as it were, does not exist at all. Well, why go to the doctors, if the "sores" are silent? .. If the time of the next medical commission comes up (for representatives of a number of professions, including military personnel, production workers, teachers, medical workers themselves), then the commission is something of a kind for us, when “we are completely healthy”, and “for some reason they“ listen ”to us, knock on the knee, measure pressure, sugar level, etc.” We can afford to give the doctor a chocolate bar while passing a paid medical commission, only if only he had not put the inspection l give us a stamp in the medical book ...

Doctor: Is something bothering you? Any complaints?

Patient to doctor: No complaints!

After such a “physical examination” we come home and after all, damn it, we can afford to complain about health, medicine, and a specific medical specialist ... They say, one had to say to him that the pressure began to ride ... But no, after all, he was a doctor himself - he had to determine all my health problems by only one type; and if I said, they would have healed “up to the handle” ... It’s better to devour pills that the neighbor advised - they said, they helped him a lot, although he has completely different “sores” and the age is different too, and in general he was recommended by a very good friend of his — the former ... because, unfortunately, the deceased ...

No, well, let's not blame everything on ourselves, as on the patients ... The doctors, after all, are in a kind of collusion with us, the patients. If a patient with all his steps, hints and mimic movements gives out that he came to a state clinic, in which free medical services are provided (on the basis of the OMS policy), but he is ready to pay for “free” medicine and not to go to the prosecutor’s office in case of outright outrage then for a number of doctors (not for everyone, of course) this is “BINGO !!!”

Doctor: So ... Here, in the district hospital, we do not have such drugs, and there is no equipment. But in a private clinic, which can be accessed from the end of the same building - I, by the way, also work there - all this is there. Bakhilchiki, by the way, do not need to buy ...

Patient: Doctor, but they told me that I can get these medicines for free if you write a prescription.

Doctor: I said that we don’t have them, but from the end they are. Want - pay and treat, do not want - ...

Patient: Well, you, that you ... Of course I will cry. How many?..

As a result, a system is born, in which patients and doctors, as they say, wink at each other - they say, we all know each other. And then it turns on that “kitchen political science”, when ultimately you want to identify the guilty, but at the same time expect order exclusively from everyone around, excluding, of course, yourself ... Like, my health - I do what I want, I do; My office in the clinic - as I want, so I fly.

But this bureaucratic component is also built into this entertaining system. The allocation of sufficiently serious funds (according to the president - more than 3,5% of GDP) for medical services from the state budget attracts lovers of cream collection ... And it often happens that officials are “generated” by the medical environment itself. There are also treating deputies, and deputy healers. There seems to be nothing illegal in this, but more often than not, ladies and gentlemen, who, as they say, actively pursue the budget funds allocated for medical care of patients, come out of this environment. “Moreover, they are mastering so actively that instead of new beds in a state clinic or instead of paying advanced training courses for medical staff, there are suddenly new floors in country houses or new hundreds of“ horses ”under the hood of the same“ treating deputy ”car.

In this regard, the presidential question asked during the ONF forum about what instructions are needed so that the people “don’t tyril” money from the people, as if hanging in the air ... This question generally exposes the entire health care system, and after all, not only health . If a single official did not receive “instructions” (and also personally from the head of state) that money cannot be “tyrit” from the people, it means - “BINGO !!!” again. Be it laundering, rolling back or dodging and splashing on the background the mentioned winking of patients and physicians ...

At the same time, frankly, I would like to hope that the ONF forum on health issues in Russia did not turn into a continuous event, but nevertheless outlined urgent problems, and served as a real impetus to the beginning of their solution. Let us be well, friends!
Author:
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 06: 56 New
    +17
    <<< We can afford to give the doctor a “chocolate bar” while undergoing a paid medical commission, if only he would put us a stamp in the medical book without examination ...

    Doctor: Is something bothering you? Have any complaints?
    Patient - Doctor: No complaints!
    We come home after such a “physical examination” and, damn it, we can afford to complain about health, medicine, and a particular medical specialist ... Like, they still had to tell him that the pressure began to jump ... >>> HA_HA_HA !!! --- what nonsense! what's the point of complaining about a "professional examination" ??? in response they will say: "make an appointment with a specialist." therefore, you try to collect the signatures at a gallop, and the doctors also don’t care, the company paid for the examination, but nothing else is needed, the checkmark is ticked, the job is done.
    1. B.T.V.
      B.T.V. 10 September 2015 07: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      HA_HA_HA !!! --- what nonsense! what's the point of complaining about a "professional examination" ??? in response they will say: "make an appointment with a specialist." therefore, you try to collect the signatures at a gallop, and the doctors also don’t care, the company paid for the examination, but nothing else is needed, the checkmark is ticked, the job is done.


      And still it is possible not to pass a professional examination, just pay the money. It sometimes only turns out to be fatal, well, if not at the wheel of a car or at a production associated with increased danger. I know what I'm talking about.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 07: 36 New
        +2
        Quote: B.T.W.
        It just turns around sometimes fatal

        How is this related? "lethal" if "supposed" (well, like << destination >>, it will be in any case! "examined" or not, it doesn’t matter! though, they don’t inspect it anyway? I’m in metallurgy, a "medical examination" is annually, but. .. the same collection of signatures in the cabinets! (And with wild bursts, and I do not care that the money is paid, throw 3-4 hours out of life!).
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 08: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Andrew Y.
          "lethal" if "supposed" (well, like << destination >>, it will be in any case!

          Is not a fact. The fact is that official medicine considers the disease a thing in itself, inventing all sorts of nonsense on this topic. In fact, a disease is a reaction of an organism to environmental factors. But the factors that lead to such reactions, medicine does not take into account, shaking hands and saying that the disease is incurable. Excuse me, citizens of the medical profession, you simply do not know how to treat it.
          1. CONTROL
            CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 31 New
            -1
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            ... the factors leading to such reactions are not taken into account by medicine, spreading their hands and saying that the disease is incurable. Excuse me, citizens of the medical profession, you simply do not know how to treat it.

            It is widely believed among physicians themselves that medicine is only partly a science; to a large extent medicine is a phenomenology! ...
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 09: 39 New
              -7
              Quote: CONTROL
              to a large extent medicine is a phenomenology! ...

              It is almost entirely shamanism in the worst sense of the word.

              Actually, our body, like the organisms of other living creatures, is a self-healing system. This is the maintenance of homeostasis in adverse conditions, and the overgrowth of cuts and bones ...

              Strictly speaking, we need traumatology and other rehabilitation subjects.

              You can live without illness, although it is difficult psychologically for an adult, and for children in modern society.
              1. bif
                bif 10 September 2015 17: 03 New
                +3
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                Strictly speaking, we need traumatology and other rehabilitation subjects.

                hmm ... tell that to cancer patients, people with peritonitis and other urgent surgical diseases, heart attacks and strokes ...
                So, if anything, contact rehabilitation immediately ...
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 18: 59 New
                  -4
                  Quote: bif
                  hmm ... tell that to cancer patients, people with peritonitis and other urgent surgical diseases, heart attacks and strokes ...

                  Believe in medicine, it is a religion. smile
          2. Maksus
            Maksus 10 September 2015 10: 39 New
            +11
            Dear, let me disagree with you. In medicine, classical, or rather "pre-capitalist", there was such a scheme: Treat a patient, not a disease. Which means the need to take into account all factors, from external factors to the peculiarities of the patient’s temperament.
            In the current so-called "insurance medicine", payment is made according to the type of "one disease - one treatment". So it’s not a claim to doctors, but to the state that is creating MESs and IESs.
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 11: 05 New
              -1
              Quote: Maksus
              Treat the patient, not the disease. Which means the need to take into account all factors, from external factors to the peculiarities of the patient’s temperament.

              Holy naivety. To live by the principle of all logs that got into your mouth. Is it called to consider all factors ??? Yes, all factors are known only to God.

              The state paid for Soviet "free" medicine. For free, this is when you went picking herbs and being treated with them.
              1. Andrey Yuryevich
                Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 18 New
                0
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                . To live by the principle of all logs that got into your mouth.

                it's tin !!!)))))))))))))))
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 14: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: Andrew Y.
                  it's tin !!!)))))))))))))))

                  What a fooligan. laughing
                  The whole field is of course. wink
              2. Maksus
                Maksus 10 September 2015 11: 57 New
                +4
                Are you telling me this? I, unlike you, have a medical education and work on a profile. And I know what I'm talking about, and I'm not a layman with a developed imagination and bloated conceit. I was not talking about Soviet medicine, but about the very thing that is classical, which Botkin (heard about this?) Was engaged in.
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 14: 00 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Maksus
                  Are you telling me this? I, unlike you, have a medical education and work on a profile.

                  And to you including The presence of medical education does not mean anything. If you do not understand that it is impossible to take into account ALL factors, you might not boast of education. I’ll remind you about that medicine and Semmelweiss, recall how cocaine and other drugs were sold in pharmacies. No need to boast about the education that doctors like to do. Learn every minute. Moreover, the lives of people who have trusted you depend on your work.
            2. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 17 New
              0
              Quote: Maksus
              Dear, let me disagree with you. In medicine, classical, or rather "pre-capitalist", there was such a scheme: Treat a patient, not a disease.

              here you are on the contrary, agree with a colleague.
            3. CONTROL
              CONTROL 10 September 2015 14: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Maksus
              In medicine, classical, or rather "pre-capitalist", there was such a scheme: Treat a patient, not a disease.

              So this is phenomenology: every person is a phenomenon for a doctor! Strictly individual approach ...
              1. Stanislas
                Stanislas 10 September 2015 16: 20 New
                0
                Quote: CONTROL
                every person is a phenomenon for a doctor!
                If under the word "phenomenon" you mean an unusual phenomenon, a rare fact, that is difficult to comprehend, then I think many doctors will disagree with you. Phenomena also occur, but not often. Have you heard the joke?
                - Doctor, I'm a phenomenon!
                - Why not?
                - When I go, it rings ...
                - So you are not a phenomenon, my friend, but a dialer!
                Imagine, the doctor heard wheezing in the bronchi and his eyes bulged as if he had discovered a "stranger" in the body. What will happen to the patient? smile
          3. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 16 New
            +1
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            But the factors that lead to such reactions, medicine does not take into account, shaking hands and saying that the disease is incurable.

            all diseases from nerves, only tripper from pleasure!))))))))
          4. bif
            bif 10 September 2015 17: 22 New
            +2
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            Excuse me, citizens of the medical profession, you simply do not know how to treat it.

            I hope you do not seek medical help. Petty-bourgeois thinking kills faster than any disease, reminds a joke ...
            "The master, wiping his hands, hands the client a misha and chatters along the way:
            - But what do you work with?
            - A heart surgeon, I carry out heart operations.
            “And they pay a lot?”
            - 20000 $ per operation.
            - Nifiga ... But in fact, we are doing the same thing, we are sorting through the engines, and I am only paid 300 $ ...
            - Do you want the same as I earn?
            - Want...
            The surgeon takes out a pack of bucks from his pocket, starts the engine:
            - Sort it out! "
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 19: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: bif
              I hope you do not seek medical help.

              Rarely. I am nevertheless born of this system, sometimes it is necessary. But on foot I go with pleasure more often from 10 km per day, sometimes for 20 km.
              Honey. help, hope for her from the evil one.
        2. fif21
          fif21 10 September 2015 09: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Andrew Y.
          I am in metallurgy, "professional examination" annually
          The purpose of the examination 1. Let the doctors earn money. 2. Identify the disease at an early stage 3. The most unpleasant thing is to find out whether you are sick or healthy for the employer, and if you are sick, then dismiss you under any pretext (layoffs, violation of labor discipline, ignorance of the OT rules) or you still think that your problems ( sick leave, treatment) are the sheriff interested in?
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 20 New
            0
            Quote: fif21
            2. Identify the disease at an early stage

            holy naivety ... who reveals THIS ??? a question without listening to the answer, and signing the “slider”: are there complaints?
            1. cumastra1
              cumastra1 10 September 2015 13: 51 New
              0
              If the patient does not complain, is he healthy? - I do not believe and I know what I'm talking about, although the inspection is superficial but there is. None of the doctors wants to see a prosecutor. But if a person is hiding the disease, this is another matter, it is very difficult to identify. In my memory, the holes in the skull were covered with wigs and ulcers were dusted with powder and much more. It's just that the patient himself is interested in this. As a rule, the detection of the disease is accompanied by a loud scandal, and sometimes by a court.
              1. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 14: 09 New
                +1
                Quote: cumastra1
                None of the doctors want a prosecutor.

                How often do doctors visit the prosecutor?
                1. cumastra1
                  cumastra1 11 September 2015 14: 30 New
                  0
                  Believe me, once is enough. A very persistent allergy develops% (
                  1. VseDoFeNi
                    VseDoFeNi 11 September 2015 16: 17 New
                    0
                    How many doctors did the prosecutor have once or more? Something I do not recall this. Although I do not pretend to be full of knowledge in this topic, but still my wife is a medic, and I do not know such cases.
          2. nerd.su
            nerd.su 10 September 2015 18: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: fif21
            The purpose of the examination 1. Let the doctors earn money. 2 ...

            The purpose of the examination is one - a piece of paper with signatures and seals, saying that such a good one. Or unfit. All.
        3. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 10 September 2015 09: 19 New
          +9
          The best healthcare system, by the way, and education, were in the USSR, during the Soviet era, when socialism was lost.
          And now, it is impossible to make an appointment with a specialist doctor for an initial appointment, neither in the registry, nor in the open, for the convenience of patients, "window" on the Internet, when you do not come, everything is scheduled and busy. But next flaunts the "window" of the private appointment of the same doctor. Pay and come.
          Capitalism. And no ONFs will help. The social system needs to be changed.
          1. nerd.su
            nerd.su 10 September 2015 18: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: vladimirZ
            The best healthcare system, as well as education, was in the USSR,

            Now, by the way, according to the UN, the best education system in Cuba.

            Quote: vladimirZ
            when you don’t come, everything is scheduled and busy. But next flaunts the "window" of the private appointment of the same doctor. Pay and come

            Well, not so bad. If your conscience does not hurt you, take a paper for an appointment in a month, and get up today. Of course, you have to quarrel with your grandmothers, but you’ll get an appointment.

            And if you don’t feel like cursing with your grandmothers, then welcome to paid medicine!
            Her speed is higher. Quality is only lame. The doctor is afraid of taking responsibility on himself, and he wants to help colleagues in the workshop to earn money - he will drive them through all the rooms of his center, and if a friend or girlfriend is good in a nearby hospital, he will drive them there.
            In general, in free medicine you will die without reaching the right specialist, and in paid medicine, from too long a path to specialists.

            Fortunately, not everything is so bad. I discovered a straightforwardly working health care formula for myself:
            "All illnesses do not matter if you sleep with a doctor at night." smile

            And no ONF will ever come up with anything better.
            1. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 11 September 2015 04: 44 New
              0
              Nerd.su tip (2):
              ... take the paper for an appointment in a month, and get up today ...

              So, they do not record a month in advance. Maximum for a week, on Wednesday, but when you open the recording window, everything is already occupied there.
              So what you want, if you don’t want, you have to go to the state clinic.
              1. nerd.su
                nerd.su 13 September 2015 22: 54 New
                0
                Quote: vladimirZ
                So, they do not record a month in advance.

                You are not lucky ... Do you live in Birobidzhan, by any chance? smile

                Perm is recorded in two weeks, and after three. And on the ultrasound and two months later ...
      2. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 07: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: B.T.W.
        It just turns around sometimes fatal

        “Yes, man is mortal, but that would be half the trouble.” The bad news is that he is sometimes suddenly mortal, that’s the trick! And he can’t say at all what he will do tonight. ” Woland.
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 10 September 2015 10: 31 New
          +6
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          "Yes, man is mortal,

          But humor cannot be taken away from him. Once conducting treatment in MONICA, I heard this tale:
          A nurse came to give the patient an enema, in between, she noticed that for some reason he was too taciturn, although he had always poisoned stories before. She attributed this to his poor health and continued her work. Having inserted the tip, she opened the valve so that the water goes into the intestines. And then it happened that the poor nurse almost became speechless: water poured from the patient’s mouth with a jet of fountain. The poor paramedic turned off the enema in a panic.
          And only after the patient’s laughter, she realized that they joked about her - before the procedure, the patient took water in his mouth, so he was at first so silent, and when the water went out of the enema, he released a stream of water from his mouth.
          So, even with a serious illness, our Russian man does not leave a sense of humor.
          Get treatment in Russian hospitals! laughing
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 28 New
            +2
            Quote: SRC P-15
            heard such a bike:

            and such an anecdote: the sister knocked, silently entered the ward, turned the patient over, blew him an enema, turned over, collected her “instruments” and headed for the exit ... patient: sister ... why did you knock ???))) ))))))))))
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 10 September 2015 11: 50 New
              +1
              Plus to you! Ah walk, so walk (let the moderators forgive me)!
              The patient brings a urine test to the hospital, in a liter jar. Nurse to him: "Why so much?" "A lot of"? - the patient without words, with pleasure, sips most of the contents of the jar. “The nurse has eyes on her forehead!”
              It turns out that this joker brought beer instead of urine and in this way decided to make a joke about the staff. smile
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 11: 24 New
          0
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          And he can’t say at all what he will do tonight. ” Woland.

          That's for sure, especially if Annushka has already spilled oil ...
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 10 September 2015 10: 36 New
      -2
      We all pay contributions to insurance medicine, which distributes coupons to hospitals. For receiving a coupon, the doctor receives a cash bonus to his salary. But what about those patients for whom the fact sheet is not available, how many lines do you take from 5 in the morning? So give people the opportunity to be guaranteed to see a doctor at least once a year, giving him a coupon in their hands from the insurance point, and not through the hospital registry. If you are afraid that they will be traded, then make them registered. Or is there a fear that the leftist will swim past his pocket?
    3. anokem
      anokem 10 September 2015 12: 22 New
      +3
      Here the question is in order of priority. In Russia, a novice doctor receives 4 times less than a novice officer. In Israel, a novice doctor gets 3 times more than a novice officer. This is the order of priority of the Russian authorities. Because if they get sick, they will go to the damned West anyway. But without the army they can’t do anything, they need the absolute devotion of the army, so that if something happens they could crush the rebellious people
      1. THE_SEAL
        THE_SEAL 10 September 2015 16: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: anokem
        Here the question is in order of priority. In Russia, a novice doctor receives 4 times less than a novice officer. In Israel, a novice doctor gets 3 times more than a novice officer. This is the order of priority of the Russian authorities. Because if they get sick, they will go to the damned West anyway. But without the army they can’t do anything, they need the absolute devotion of the army, so that if something happens they could crush the rebellious people

        Probably the only correct opinion. And then again begins "dizziness from success." "They say the officials are to blame again." The boyars are bad, and the king ...
        The healthcare system needs to be redefined.
        1. Uncle Joe
          Uncle Joe 10 September 2015 23: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: THE_SEAL
          The healthcare system needs to be redefined.
          So already ...
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 07: 04 New
    +2
    What kind of killer doctor minus slammed? I discovered the "medical secret" ???))))))))))))))))))))))))))
  3. sso-xnumx
    sso-xnumx 10 September 2015 07: 50 New
    +3
    Unfortunately, all the actions of the current leadership, both the Ministry of Health and the government in relation to the reform of the health system as a whole, recalls the old medical question: "Well, will we treat, or let him live ???"
    1. WINovikov
      WINovikov 10 September 2015 09: 32 New
      +1
      And how many new diseases did medical scientists invent? And how many drugs have been invented to treat these diseases?
    2. CONTROL
      CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: sso-250659
      old medical question: "Well, we will treat, or let him live ???"

      ... another old medical question: "What are you complaining about?" - the answer: "An autopsy will show!"
      1. fif21
        fif21 10 September 2015 09: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: CONTROL
        another old medical question: "What are you complaining about?" - the answer: "An autopsy will show!"
        And another old medical joke: There are no healthy people! There are unexplored.
    3. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 09: 40 New
      0
      Quote: sso-250659
      Unfortunately, all the actions of the current leadership, both the Ministry of Health and the government, in relation to the reform of the health system as a whole,

      What exactly is wrong? You just didn’t open the topic.
      1. sso-xnumx
        sso-xnumx 10 September 2015 14: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: VseDoFeNi
        You just didn’t open the topic

        Why open it? The Ministry of Health has given the installation to do everything so that citizens over 60 years of age live as little as possible. Saving pensions, vacating housing, reducing retirement homes, etc. according to the list. So that as few people as possible are left from the people of the Soviet generation. It’s hard to work with them. So, health care was transferred from the sphere of strategic provision of labor and mobility resources to the service sector, and it is self-supporting.
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 14: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: sso-250659
          The Ministry of Health has given the installation to do everything so that citizens over 60 years of age live as little as possible.

          Strongly disagree with this. I myself have not much left until 60, but today my health is better than in my youth. The main mistake of people is that they consider themselves equal to the gods and in terms of health completely relied on doctors. Forgetting that medicine cannot return health, it can help not die, but health will not return.
          Feel the difference - live disabled or live healthy?
          It would be possible to believe in your words, BUT doctors live less than the others.
          1. sso-xnumx
            sso-xnumx 10 September 2015 19: 27 New
            0
            Quote: VseDoFeNi
            BUT doctors live less than the rest.

            So after all, we have the motto since the Middle Ages, "Shining to others, I burn myself!" And to be honest, the generation of young people who are currently studying as a doctor will live longer. Initially sharpened for mining dough !!!
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 21: 07 New
              0
              Quote: sso-250659
              "Shining to others, I burn myself!"

              Yes, yes, this is the story I spoke of. Doctors and the plague won ... but not by themselves, but she left herself when the contents of the night pots ceased to be poured onto the streets. Maybe doctors designed and built water supply and sewage systems?
              How many fans divorced themselves to merit hanging, straight Leonid Ilyich around.
              Quote: sso-250659
              And to be honest, the generation of young people who are currently studying as a doctor will live longer.

              It is impossible to live in cities for a long time.
              "Megacities are parasites on the body of the planet. They consume resources, and in return give only landfills, poisoned water and air." K. Priestaychuk.
  4. fif21
    fif21 10 September 2015 07: 58 New
    +15
    Do we have capitalism? I doubt it! What does “free” education and healthcare mean in our country? I beg you, he was not and is not. Myself, why would you lie, we must directly say our health care is paid! And very expensive. FOMS is a large official feeder, driver medical certificates, professional examinations, medical examinations ... it is a lower feeder for doctors. But God forbid you get sick, and even seriously, and then you presenting your medical policy (MHI) will see a contemptuous boorish attitude. Under any pretext (it’s your age, you don’t have a fever, a specialist is busy and will only see you in a week, we don’t have places in the hospital, etc., etc.) And how people get paid for money is aerobatics! Conclusion - there is no money die, there is money — any whim for them (a separate room with air conditioning, meals from the restaurant, teeth extraction to music) is a great desire to remove your appendicitis a second time, and how many tests you will pass, God forbid, God forbid. Cheaper to die. People’s fear of our “free” medicine makes people take care of their health. Thanks to the TV and the internet.
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 10 September 2015 08: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: fif21
      But God forbid you get sick, and even seriously, and then you presenting your medical policy (MHI) will see a contemptuous boorish attitude. Under any pretext (it’s your age, you don’t have a fever, a specialist is busy and will only see you in a week, we don’t have places in the hospital, etc., etc.) And how people get paid for money is aerobatics! Conclusion, there is no money die, there is money, any whim for them

      I had to somehow deal with the Center for Vascular Surgery (in Moscow). Pirogov - the mother did the operation there. It’s free, by the way, because it has a policy - if I had to pay money, then I most likely would have to go into debt over my ears.
      There were those who were operated on for money - all of them were citizens of neighboring countries.
      I did not notice the difference in conditions - they lie in the same rooms, they feed the same way. There was no scornful attitude from the staff.

      I briefly wrote what I saw myself, and you apparently have good health. Well, God grant you ... as they say.
      1. fif21
        fif21 10 September 2015 09: 44 New
        +5
        Quote: GRAY
        (in Moscow) to them. Pirogov - the mother did the operation there. Free by the way
        Moscow is not Russia! Glad for your mother, give her the god of health and long life. Free is for you, the state paid for the compulsory medical insurance.
        1. GRAY
          GRAY 10 September 2015 10: 05 New
          0
          Quote: fif21
          the state paid for the compulsory health insurance.

          I did not mind :-)
          Patients are brought from all over Russia, if that.
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 10 September 2015 12: 46 New
            +1
            Quote: GRAY
            Patients are brought from all over Russia, if that.

            think THIS is normal ???
            1. GRAY
              GRAY 10 September 2015 16: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Andrew Y.
              think THIS is normal ???

              Yes, this is normal, because it is a specialized center. What they do there, ANY surgeon can not do.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 10 September 2015 22: 14 New
                +2
                No, this is not normal when all the best that is in the country is concentrated in one place. Therefore, almost 10% of the country's population lives there, and it is increasing every year. And such centers should be in every federal district, so as not to carry heavy and injured for thousands of kilometers.
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 11 September 2015 04: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  And such centers should be in every federal district, so as not to carry heavy and injured for thousands of kilometers.

                  Megacities and large cities, this is not normal at all. Settle them necessary. Especially with us, when for every resident of Russia there are more than 10 hectares of land. It should be given to everyone who wants to leave the city for free, without taxes on it and products produced on it, whether vegetables or handicrafts, etc., without a right. inheritance sales.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. gaziev.asgat
      gaziev.asgat 10 September 2015 09: 14 New
      +2
      In May, I was lying with heart pains in a wounded clinic, for 7 days 5 corpses and all with a motor, the therapist doctor at the department 1,5 years after the institute told me that you were still useless to treat you, your wife had a fight with him and he only then sent He went to the cordiological center for 7 days and did not prescribe any treatment, they consider themselves to be God, they tried to complain uselessly, only unsubscribe, our residents do not want to be treated there and they go to Bashkiria for good, who can conclude ???
      1. Bombardier
        Bombardier 10 September 2015 09: 29 New
        +5
        Yes, we don’t have medicine, Moscow + Peter - maybe they do it for free, they built a new hospital, we brought in equipment, even doctors are there, only this hospital was nicknamed Pyaterochka in due time, time has passed and now the Eight and now "Ten" - I explain - now, just to go to the hospital, I repeat, just lie down - 10000 rubles. No Ten - they will escort even if by ambulance! Treatment payment separately !!!! And knowing the local doctors, all patients try to get to the Regional Center, they will at least cure them there, and not just take the money!
        Hello to our medicine! What do we pay (where the main thing) for the medical pole ??? Our medicine is just FICTION! There are a lot of negative examples, positive units!
        Separately I want to thank and say kind words to pharmacists, i.e. according to simple pharmacists - they treat us (it sounds terribly of course) - it’s not possible to get to a therapist, and even more so to someone who knows something! Narrow specialists - indeed, what would they be experts - BIG rarity (just a unique case)! About taking tests and how much does it cost to start writing?
        Admins - the main thing is not to start writing about local elections - I will swear a lot!
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 14: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: Bombardier
          Narrow specialists - indeed, what would they be experts - BIG rarity (just a unique case)!

          Are you talking about a specialist in the right nostril?
          Oddly enough, but a person is a system, not a bunch of separate (narrow) organs. And there cannot be a narrow specialist on something there.
        2. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 10 September 2015 19: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Bombardier
          Moscow + Peter - maybe for free, which they do,

          Oh, I beg you !!! Neither do nothing for free. Part of the appointments according to mandatory medical insurance, the rest according to the price list !!!
  5. Shepard
    Shepard 10 September 2015 07: 59 New
    +5
    Most of all I like this.
    You come to the registry all in snot without a voice and ask for a coupon, in response, there are no coupons. You ask for tomorrow, hoping in this state to live until tomorrow, in return, no tomorrow. And what day is there, you ask, they answer well in two weeks.
    Hence the thought, that is, should I plan to get sick in two weeks?
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 08: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Shepard
      Hence the thought, that is, should I plan to get sick in two weeks?

      The thought is not true. It is necessary and possible to live without illness.
    2. GRAY
      GRAY 10 September 2015 08: 26 New
      -3
      Quote: Shepard
      You come to the registry all in snot without a voice and ask for a coupon, in response, there are no coupons.

      They have an option - "call a doctor at home" is called.
      1. asadov
        asadov 10 September 2015 09: 11 New
        +1
        Have you used this option? Give it a try. Something from the kind of "guess the melody" or rather disease. On the first day they said that it was a simple ARI with the determination that everything would go away on its own, and two days later it turned out that sore throat + otitis media with subsequent hospitalization. And no one was held responsible for the wrong diagnosis, because we are all deeply .... And also Before checking medical facilities, doctors like to paste leaflets with vaccinations, as it were, into the patient’s medical records. especially children.
        1. Bombardier
          Bombardier 10 September 2015 09: 45 New
          +1
          about vaccination - I confirm! on the experience of their children. +
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 10: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: Bombardier
            about vaccination - I confirm! on the experience of their children. +

            And I generally refused all vaccinations, my third daughter did not even have BCG. There are almost more complications from vaccination than imaginary protection. The only problem when refusing vaccinations is that you have to periodically listen to horror stories from doctors and curse when you go to kindergarten / school. hi
            1. Bombardier
              Bombardier 10 September 2015 11: 43 New
              -1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Quote: Bombardier
              about vaccination - I confirm! on the experience of their children. +

              And I generally refused all vaccinations, my third daughter did not even have BCG. There are almost more complications from vaccination than imaginary protection. The only problem when refusing vaccinations is that you have to periodically listen to horror stories from doctors and curse when you go to kindergarten / school. hi


              This is in vain! Inoculated in the Union for good reason and all without exception - and thereby defeated many diseases that mowed entire villages and peoples. Put your children at risk, and by the way, not only your children, but also those around your children. And BCG did not? wassat ... Sorry, do you have children with a weak immune system? or is it just your conclusion, do not get vaccinated at all?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 11: 59 New
                +2
                Quote: Bombardier
                inference, do not get vaccinated at all?

                My decision is based on the findings of the country's leading virologists. Have you ever wondered why people vaccinated with BCG still have tuberculosis? As well as those vaccinated against hepatitis, they still get sick. Look on the Internet for lectures by the professor of immunology Chervonskaya, weigh the pros and cons, and then we will talk not with templates like the vaccine calendar, but with real information about them.
                1. Bombardier
                  Bombardier 10 September 2015 12: 07 New
                  0
                  Measles, whooping cough, smallpox, rubella, etc. etc. and etc............?
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 12: 51 New
                    0
                    Quote: Bombardier
                    Measles, whooping cough, smallpox, rubella, etc. etc. and etc..

                    The pig was forgotten. laughing Look at Chervonskaya. hi
        2. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 09: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: asadov
          And no one was held responsible for the wrong diagnosis

          But doctors like to tell a fairy tale that they live 15-20 years less than the rest (official WHO statistics), because they are very worried about patients. Thus, hinting that the rest are without a brain and nerves. But what, the pilot of a wide-body airliner at a 10-kilometer altitude does not worry about his life and the lives of several hundred passengers.
          1. CONTROL
            CONTROL 10 September 2015 15: 01 New
            0
            Quote: VseDoFeNi

            But doctors like to tell a fairy tale that they live 15-20 years less than the rest (official WHO statistics)

            It's true!
            There are even more detailed statistics: for example, cancer is not contagious, but oncologists are 6-8 times more likely to get sick ... And psychiatrists go crazy more often than we sinful, ordinary people ... "March 42, year I do not remember..."
            1. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 15: 43 New
              -1
              Quote: CONTROL
              It's true!

              That they live less clearly, I said why.
              For example, my neighbor goes to be treated for diabetes from a diabetic doctor. Naturally, this process is eternal and endless.
              At the same time, both types of diabetes can be cured by a raw food diet, although you will not believe this.



              Read Campbell’s book on CVDs that I mentioned here. On page 108
              [Img][/ Img]

              Fig. 5.4. Coronary artery before and after a plant diet
              1. GRAY
                GRAY 10 September 2015 16: 42 New
                0
                Quote: VseDoFeNi
                At the same time, both types of diabetes can be cured by a raw food diet, although you will not believe this.

                No one can confirm the cure either, because they are all in the cemetery.
                1. VseDoFeNi
                  VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 21: 14 New
                  0
                  Quote: GRAY
                  No one can confirm the cure either, because they are all in the cemetery.

                  How is it physically swaggering. You are an absolute similar to a god, even above all the gods combined. The remaining dung worms do not understand anything.
        3. GRAY
          GRAY 10 September 2015 10: 31 New
          0
          Quote: asadov
          Have you used this option?

          Used it. Wrong diagnosis - no one is safe from this. The doctor will not be held responsible, because he draws a conclusion based on the symptoms that are described in your medical record.
          Now, if he had missed the noise in his lungs and you would have thundered into the hospital with inflammation, then yes, you could have pulled him for negligence.
          But as for “it will pass by itself” - it’s strong, I’ve never heard a doctor say that. They even have a fad - to prescribe antibiotics "just in case", so that as you did not succeed.
          It made sense to go to the management of the clinic and discuss this issue with them, because they also did not need such passengers.
  6. Gardamir
    Gardamir 10 September 2015 07: 59 New
    +8
    In this regard, the presidential question asked during the ONF forum about what instructions are needed so that the people don’t “swab” the people, as if hanging in the air ...
    otpiarival as usual, scored percentics to a rating.
  7. beer-youk
    beer-youk 10 September 2015 08: 04 New
    +5
    Examination and profanity are twins. Inspected, you can’t lose your job, inspecting to the shit - Complicated.
    I remembered. In the late, distant 90s during the next reorganization of all the employees of our office were sent for medical examination to extend the contract. The neuropathologist at ALL has measured ultra-high pressure. Someone brought an envelope, someone had a shopping bag, and someone, using the services of acquaintances, had been chipped. The one who was injected got 180/120 from her and lost consciousness, the ambulance arrived 80/45. As a result, the device is guilty (and why does the neuropathologist measure pressure?), And the doctor is clean, like an angel. By the way, it still works in the same way. The then chief physician dismissed her, and the current (philologist, who graduated from something manipulative) restored it.
    1. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 10 September 2015 18: 19 New
      0
      the same core - the therapist all measured the last time plus 20 to both numbers:) - and she all advertised a certain drug - I don’t remember
  8. I am
    I am 10 September 2015 08: 15 New
    +1
    You need to start with YOURSELF !!!! I came to the clinic - you on the homili. Do not wipe yourself and go home - go to the head doctor - write a complaint, call the Ministry of Health. Yes, it may not be right away, but the issue is resolved. and ON WRITTEN application submitted, incl. through the portal GosUslug - just have to answer. And to not answer - this is a document !!! And with the document you can go to court. The main thing is MORE ANNOUNCEMENT. Modern TALKS - very afraid of publicity. They simply will not be taken to another hospital even after being publicized by the janitor - LIGHTED UP !!!!
    1. Bombardier
      Bombardier 10 September 2015 09: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: I am
      Modern TALKS - very afraid of publicity. They simply will not be taken to another hospital even after being publicized by the janitor - LIGHTED UP !!!!


      In which other - if we have only this hospital in our city? And the same doctor in the hospital, and in the clinic, and in paid institutions accepts. He may be the head of the doctor! Corruption in medicine is colossal !!! and her state cultivates this corruption!
      1. theodore rasp
        theodore rasp 10 September 2015 10: 14 New
        +5
        The point is not even corruption, but corporate spirit. Has anyone ever heard of the conviction of a doctor for, albeit inadvertently due to unsuitability, but killing a patient? That's it! A historical fact - Zhdanov (a member of the Central Committee) died precisely for this reason, but medical mutual responsibility did not give punishment for the REAL crime. It turned out to be easier to prove wrecking. The documents are declassified, you can see and marvel at how the black male medical luminaries wash white!
    2. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 10 September 2015 18: 23 New
      0
      came to the main thing- not in place — accepted the deputy — said verbatim — you already got beggars — then firemen or cops — you need everything for free:) - for the therapist’s refusal to give a decoding of the cardiogram in the examination paid by the enterprise :) and the current replica I’ll take 500 rubles per bucket of water when I come to him, but no one is safe from the light, resolved the issue positively :)
  9. xorgi
    xorgi 10 September 2015 08: 20 New
    +2
    I do not quite agree to the account of the professional inspection. During this, tests are taken, in particular for HIV, lyes and lung conditions, plus a visual examination by a therapist and psychiatrist, all of which together allows us to give an opinion on the presence of the most socially dangerous diseases. So that the state functions are performed by a professional examination, as for personal ones, not all people are silent at the reception, at least in our midst.
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 08: 25 New
      +4
      Quote: xorgi
      During this, tests are taken, in particular for HIV, lyes and lung conditions, plus a visual examination by a therapist and psychiatrist, all of which together allows us to give an opinion on the presence of the most socially dangerous diseases.

      So this is diagnosis, not prevention.

      Prevention is a set of measures to prevent something.
      Diagnostics - a set of measures to identify something.
      1. Shepard
        Shepard 10 September 2015 08: 48 New
        +1
        Now they diagnose oh as they like, they bought equipment from overseas to diagnose what you want.
        There is a case, a man with a shoulder toils, here it is for diagnostics.
        “And let's check this, and then this” and every doctor tries to send a new diagnosis to a paid diagnostics, but the fact that they already have previous results with them supposedly not the same, needs to be done from a different angle.
        As a result, he is already on high tones: “I have a whole bunch of your diagnostics in half a year and an MRI and an X-ray and a shoulder and how to treat it next to and to the left and to the right !!!!” And in response, "Well, here's another look"
      2. xorgi
        xorgi 10 September 2015 08: 55 New
        +1
        Prof. - This is not prevention, but professional, i.e. medical examination for professional suitability, the author in the article spoke about him. Every year (or twice a year), such an inspection is carried out. Prevention should not be done in honey. institution, and in the workplace.
      3. CONTROL
        CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: VseDoFeNi

        So this is diagnosis, not prevention.

        Prevention is a set of measures to prevent something.
        Diagnostics - a set of measures to identify something.

        A "professional examination" is not "preventive", but "professional"aimed at identifying diseases that impede the performance of professional duties, i.e. associated with a particular profession (the driver is blind in one eye; a high-rise installer with dizziness; a loader with a pressure of 190/140 ...)
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 10: 32 New
          0
          100500 times heard that preventive.

          And in general, with medicine it is not so simple as it seems. The same dentists do not treat caries, but completely repair their teeth. In the same way that they repair the walls, they repulsed the old plaster, covered it with a new one.

          To tear out (remove) organs, that is, to make a person disabled, today is considered an achievement of medicine, whether it be glands or gall bladder, for example.
          1. xorgi
            xorgi 10 September 2015 10: 46 New
            0
            Again wrong. if you come to a normal dentist with the initial stage of caries (without a hole in the tooth), then you will be treated with caries.
            Regarding tearing and removing, it is also not entirely true, a normal doctor will not remove anything without need.
            Another thing is that good doctors are mainly in the field of paid medicine, and it is easier for a bad doctor to kick the patient to the surgeon than to understand why and what he has.
            1. beer-youk
              beer-youk 10 September 2015 11: 39 New
              +1
              Forced to repeat. If the doctor does not know how to treat for free, then for no money he will not learn. And just do not talk about the clientele, he has a boss - father-in-law or aunt, or father, and this paid institution is one within a radius of 200 km.
            2. beer-youk
              beer-youk 10 September 2015 11: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: xorgi
              if you come to a normal dentist with the initial stage of caries (without a hole in the tooth), then you will be treated with caries.

              The vast majority of dentists diagnose any darkening of enamel (coffee, tea, smoking, etc.) as tooth decay and begin to treat it. As a result, after 2-3 years the tooth will have to be removed, and the dentist will take the money for this period, and even more often someone will suffer from toothache, someone less likely to be lucky.
              I was killed by the phrase of a dentist-surgeon who removed my tooth after a heap of X-ray photographs: "If I remove a tooth from which money can still be removed, they will fire me!"
              1. theodore rasp
                theodore rasp 10 September 2015 12: 55 New
                0
                Absolutely agree. The tooth touched by the dentist is doomed. It is checked repeatedly.
            3. VseDoFeNi
              VseDoFeNi 11 September 2015 04: 34 New
              0
              Quote: xorgi
              A normal doctor will not remove anything unnecessarily.

              Again. Read Colin Campbell's China Study
              Colin Campbell
              Colin Campbell (T. Colin Campbell) is an American biochemist and researcher, a world-renowned nutrition specialist, author of the best-selling book China Research and one of the main participants in the documentary Forks Against Knives.
              Basic data

              Main areas: Nutrition, Nutrition and health research

              Popular books: The China Study, Whole Food

              Skills and abilities: Scientist, Researcher, Author, Orator, Vegan

              Achievements and rewards:

              National Institute of Health Award for Contribution to Career Development (1974-1976)
              Sam and Mary Roberts Foundation Prize Laureate (1988)
              "Outstanding Lecturer", Taiwan Food Community Award
              Colin Campbell's research is featured on the cover of the journal National Institute of Cancer (1985) and Cancer Research (1991)
              The Hero of Food and Nutrition, Pleasant Meal Magazine (1994)
              Awarded a Special Prize for Outstanding Publications in Preventive Medicine in China for 20 Years (1976-1996)
              Entered the list of 25 most influential people in the field of nutrition according to the magazine Self (1998)
              American Cancer Research Institute Award for Outstanding Research Achievement and Significant Contribution to Diet, Nutrition, and Cancer Science (1998)
              Barton-Kallman Scientific Achievement Award from the National Food Association (2004)
              Founder, Colin Campbell Nutrition Research Center, a not-for-profit organization

              Hobbies: Leisure with family, Gardening, Reading (philosophy, history), Cycling

              Expert Website: http://nutritionstudies.org




              In the end, you will not lose.

              PS I'm not from the Moon or Mars. You can’t say anything new to me about medicine. I have seen enough how the "normal doctors" healed my father before the disability, by the way. I had seen enough how my relatives and friends suffered, were sick, and were dying. And I perfectly understood the powerlessness of medicine and the fundamental impossibility of returning health to people.
  10. k1995
    k1995 10 September 2015 08: 30 New
    +4
    We also like doctors as traffic cops, you cannot do without them, but as soon as you talk to them, I want to give someone a shot on the head. Tariffs of bribes hang almost by the official price list (I do not mean a chocolate bar for a signature, and tariffs for operations of cancer patients).
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 08: 50 New
      0
      Quote: k1995
      on surgery of cancer patients).

      I strongly advise you to study Colin Campbell's book, Chinese Research. Cancer is reversible and can be cured or significantly slowed down. The same goes for CVD and most other diseases.

      http://ufrolov.ru/wp-content/uploads/book/Kolin_Kempbell_Tomas_Kempbell_Kitaysko
      e_issl.pdf
      http://www.labirint.ru/books/401702/
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: VseDoFeNi
        I strongly advise you to study Colin Campbell's book, Chinese Research. Cancer is reversible and can be cured or significantly slowed down.

        There is a very detailed instruction for handling hazardous explosives (BB); it is described in detail - what must be done so as not to explode ...
        But how to stay alive if it exploded is not written there ...
        1. VseDoFeNi
          VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 10: 36 New
          0
          The trouble is that doctors don’t know how not to get sick. They know how to get sick correctly, and how to live healthy - no.

          PS And many more doctors say. that type wine is useful ... By the way, narcologists drink too.
  11. boris-1230
    boris-1230 10 September 2015 08: 33 New
    +1
    The quality of the medical staff does not hold water; the diagnosis has become a frequent thing. And how they can breed into unnecessary examinations, procedures. Dentists are generally ready to treat healthy teeth. Horror, not medicine. In general, corruption as metastases has reduced all good to nothing. In Germany, by the way, they must make a diagnosis in a day. In Norway, medicine is generally free, even teeth are inserted for free.
  12. Million
    Million 10 September 2015 08: 38 New
    +1
    And our medicine also seems to be soon coming Khan!
  13. Shepard
    Shepard 10 September 2015 08: 41 New
    0
    Quote: GRAY
    They have an option - "call a doctor at home" is called.

    Doctors are usually called in the morning, but what if you feel sick after lunch? Polyclinic a quarter from the workplace.
    I have to get home, then call the doctor, then sit and wait while he rolls up on other calls. And so already in the hospital I was issued, I bought pills along the way and have already begun to be treated and went to rest.
  14. fif21
    fif21 10 September 2015 08: 55 New
    +2
    What would I propose to do in healthcare, so that it unfolds facing the person. 1. Eliminate the Ministry of Health. 2. Recognize that we have paid medicine. 3. Give the provision of medical services to private business 4. Probably the most important thing is to change the payment scheme for medical insurance. The man went to the hospital, received a certain list of services (he confirmed their receipt) and the bill is billed to the insurance company, and she, in turn, pays for the expenses of the medical institution and the work of specialists. 5. To add articles to the Criminal Code for the provision of services not required for the treatment of a disease, for the treatment of a non-existent disease. 6. OFMS to cancel, since this money does not stimulate the treatment of patients, but are freebies that do not oblige doctors to anything. I wish you health and long life! (in spite of the pension fund, the Ministry of Health, Roskomstat- a joke)
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 10 September 2015 09: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: fif21
      What would I propose to do in healthcare, so that it unfolds facing the person.

      Watch Michael Moore's movie Health Recover ...
    2. beer-youk
      beer-youk 10 September 2015 12: 10 New
      0
      Quote: fif21
      5. To add articles to the Criminal Code for the provision of services not required for the treatment of a disease, for the treatment of a non-existent disease.

      I beg your pardon! And who will be the expert in this matter? Most likely, the one who studied with this doctor, or his colleague from his previous job, or the sister of his wife’s brother’s mistress. In short, in the medical environment, the main principles are: “The raven will not peck out the crow” and “Today you, and tomorrow I.” And this will not break the state, nor the market, nor the Lord God!
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. LMaksim
    LMaksim 10 September 2015 09: 06 New
    0
    Our medicine is so advanced that in the rural outback, for the entire area (several thousand inhabitants) there is no dental x-ray machine! Squeezed? Go wherever you want, even to the nearest city, to which there are almost 100 km and in which there are enough of your patients. The hospital is shabby, though the doctors ride on foreign cars.
    1. theodore rasp
      theodore rasp 10 September 2015 10: 00 New
      +4
      Quote: LMaksim
      The hospital is shabby, though the doctors ride on foreign cars.

      You can only envy. You ride them, but they are. We have another misfortune - the hospital is like candy, and the surgeon 2 days a week, ENT 1 day a month, optometrist 2 days a month, and then on the list.
      1. dievleha
        dievleha 10 September 2015 14: 27 New
        0
        I agree, if it were not for the indignation of the population, we planned to leave one hospital in 3 districts
  17. Million
    Million 10 September 2015 09: 11 New
    +2
    Quote: fif21
    3. Give the provision of medical services to private business

    Then medicine will earn money for us, not heal! Business needs money, not your health
    1. fif21
      fif21 10 September 2015 10: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Million
      Then medicine will earn money for us, not heal! Business needs money, not your health
      And what's wrong with that? If you want to make money, heal, here I am! You’ll treat badly, I’ll go to another doctor, and I’ll tell everyone I know about it wassat An insurance company will be paying for the treatment, there will probably be a specialist in the staff who will be able to tell the doctor: E my friend, you prescribed an enema to the patient, and we will not pay you for a runny nose and enema. (exaggerate) Capitalism is so capitalism and it is not necessary to dissemble.
      1. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 10: 25 New
        +3
        Quote: fif21
        And what's wrong with that? If you want to make money, heal, here I am!

        It's disgusting. If you kill the car, to hell with it. And if you yourself at your own expense?

        Quote: fif21
        You’ll treat badly, I’ll go to another doctor, and I’ll tell everyone I know about it

        Press, go to anyone.

        Quote: fif21
        The insurance company will pay for the treatment

        Which you pay personally.

        Quote: fif21
        Capitalism is so capitalism and it is not necessary to dissemble.

        What prevents them from sharing your money?
        1. fif21
          fif21 10 September 2015 15: 26 New
          0
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          And if you yourself at your own expense?
          Who will kill the chicken that lays the golden testicles? That's right, just not smart people! So do not be treated by "fools."
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. fif21
          fif21 10 September 2015 15: 45 New
          0
          Quote: VseDoFeNi
          What prevents them from sharing your money?

          Greed prevents! The task of the insurance company is to pay for the insured event to a minimum, and the task of medicine is to get the maximum for the services provided.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  18. nemec55
    nemec55 10 September 2015 09: 18 New
    0
    An interesting topic is the health of doctors, etc.,
    In February, the tribe (24 years old) fell ill with a fever. An ambulance was called up to the hospital for cut-off three days later, and the doctor ordered a garlic on the neck in a bag from KINDER-well and plus cold medicine, and on the fourth day they were taken to the hospital on the fifth day, he died. Bilateral pneumonia plus wherever blood cancer comes from.
    The pain of loss cannot be conveyed ...
    1. xorgi
      xorgi 10 September 2015 10: 15 New
      0
      But let's take a closer look:
      1. probably MEDICINES FOR COLD and garlic on the neck in a baklady from under the kinder
      2. what kind of medicine? if coriander, then this is one, and if ampicillin, then another
      3. Was there a proposal for hospitalization from an emergency doctor?
      4. blood cancer is diagnosed only by analysis, and not by the medical history of an ambulance
      and finally, with leukemia, it is valid: a strong infection can lead to death very quickly, only powerful therapy saves with the timely detection of diseases.
      1. nemec55
        nemec55 10 September 2015 11: 53 New
        0
        I do not blame the doctors at all, I just described the situation.
  19. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 10 September 2015 09: 32 New
    +2
    Russians have two diseases;
    - colds and hu .. i.e. shitty
    the cold itself goes away, but "bad" is not treated.
    In general, we must return to the USSR health care system, because you understand that the difference between paid and free medicine is only in the price of shoe covers.
    For payers, shoe covers go as a bonus, but for the rest they will tear off three skins, and for state services, services are free (but they are not) and pay for shoe covers.
    Medicine and education must be urgently saved, for the liberal infection of "reform" will soon make society "sick fools"
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 10: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      In general, we must return to the USSR health care system, because you understand that the difference between paid and free medicine is only in the price of shoe covers.

      It is necessary to return the health care to the people themselves. The Yandex request eloquently shows that doctors themselves live less than the rest. They are specialists in diseases, not in health, and are not able to restore health to themselves. nor to your near and dear ones.
  20. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 10 September 2015 09: 51 New
    +2
    I won’t scold medicine ... Yes, there are many problems! Just recently (a month ago) I had a heart attack! We were treated normally, they didn’t require money (I paid 30 thousand). They also offer bypass surgery for free (180 thousand). they are small (in appearance this is a province) Medications prescribed expensive (imported) said that it is better not to risk it! These are the things in the tank troops! We’ll wait a bit ... hi
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 10: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Just recently (a month ago) I had a heart attack

      Cardiology is one of the few branches of medicine that works almost entirely from the budget, including planned operations. God forbid you to be confronted with the ENT department and the ChLH. They won’t even watch there for free. Almost the same with ophthalmologists. hi
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 10 September 2015 12: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Just recently (a month ago) I had a heart attack

        Cardiology is one of the few branches of medicine that works almost entirely from the budget, including planned operations. God forbid you to be confronted with the ENT department and the ChLH. They won’t even watch there for free. Almost the same with ophthalmologists. hi

        I guess you're right, I was just lucky ... Doctors are fleeing from the agricultural area, there are fewer real specialists, and more and more grabbers .... Annual medical examinations go through this laugh and the sin of evil is not enough! He suffered a heart attack for a week on his feet .. The question of why he didn’t go to the hospital? ... He answered that it’s better to die at home or at work than (it was soon) than on benches at the doctor’s office ... bully They drove 70 km to the station in a gazelle gazelle ... to the intensive care unit to put .... When they brought it to the intensive care unit, the nurses neigh (I had crazy and happy eyes that I arrived alive))))) laughing
  21. verb
    verb 10 September 2015 10: 08 New
    +7
    Lying with a fracture of the femoral neck. 1,5 months. The most common hospital in n.Novgorod. The food is good, the attitude of nurses is beyond praise, nanny ... well. They were different: both hamie and very good. Doctors ... Well, doctors. They are competent, qualified. Of course, everyone has a different character, but in general, not bad. And he was lying on the policy. And do not here all the doctors obs .... t! Everything is as in life: someone came across g ..., and someone is normal people, with their own shortcomings and advantages.
    1. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 10: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: verb
      Lying with a fracture of the femoral neck. 1,5 months

      How to break managed?

      Quote: verb
      And do not here all the doctors obs .... t! Everything is as in life: someone came across g ..., and someone is normal people, with their own shortcomings and advantages.

      No question, everywhere there are compassionate people.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 10 September 2015 11: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: verb
      . And do not have all the doctors here .... obs!

      Come to Togliatti and feel the difference. It all depends on the head of the doctor. Even the health workers themselves recommend going to Samara for treatment, although the hospital complex (medical campus) in Togliatti is also large.
      The wife gave birth - so he re-worked with everyone, and they strive either to inject stimulation without evidence, or to caesar. Conveyor, their mother. And then we are surprised - where are the birth injuries. And denyuzhku for any nonsense asking. hi
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 10 September 2015 14: 58 New
        +1
        , and strive either to inject stimulation without evidence, or to caesar. Conveyor their mother
        it’s not even a conveyor. The point is a complete lack of conscience. They just don’t feel like giving birth at night. Therefore, either stimulate or cesarean.
  22. Vladimir
    Vladimir 10 September 2015 10: 18 New
    0
    Of course, there are a lot of questions for medicine, I don’t know how in Russia, and in Ukraine, in order for you to be examined at least you need money, you can only die in a hospital bed for free. Of course, sometimes a mere mortal may be lucky if the volunteers come across normal or if they raise a topic on TV but it’s rare and only money and money again.
  23. Baloo
    Baloo 10 September 2015 10: 55 New
    +2
    There are fair comments, but the main problems in medicine 2: funding + of doctors and nurses is not sufficiently educated by doctors and nurses. In Tatarstan, rural medicine and city medicine pay a lot of attention in terms of equipment. I see this on business trips.
    I want about professional examinations. More than half of his life back began as a pediatric surgeon in a clinic. Already in kindergarten in the younger groups for 15-20 children 1-2 or flat feet or impaired posture. In the older groups, 5-7, no hernias, etc. After work, I collected parents in each group and explained for 30-40 minutes what is and what to do. In schools, at the end of the first class of postural disorders, up to 75%. Flat feet as a consequence of the pathology of childbirth or pregnancy, or genetics is already visible in infants. A separate topic is static flat feet and posture disturbances, leg deformities during puberty. As a rule, these are children who are not friends with physical education and sports, do not dance. In boys 13-15 years of age, varicose veins of the spermatic cord — not treating varicocele can result in infertility and related problems. He revealed it in two, one went to the ski section, the other went to volleyball. Imagine my surprise when, after a year, I did not find a varicocele in them. Life is motion! Make friends with sports! More about kindergartens: we had 2 kindergartens with pools and more than 2 dozen without. So these are different children! About schools: in the evening I came to a meeting with my parents explaining what and how, in the diaries of everyone, the diagnosis was written and where to go. We are with the head. in the teenager’s office they achieved that the whole shift in 20 minutes was built in the lobby and under the guidance of the physical education instructor did 15 minutes of gymnastics. Based on the results of the examination in the diaries, the guys wrote to whom to come to the polyclinic at the physical therapy center, who should do something outside the school: a sport, dancing. Imagine my surprise when after three years I saw the results: the number of crank arms decreased from 100-75% to 3-5! Professional examinations of young athletes:
    The football coach brought the boys. 2 \ 3 crooked-legged and curved-legged, short-legged. I explained to the trainer what kinds of sports it is better for some to do, and whom to leave. I didn’t listen. After a year, they left 20-5 on their own, 3 had problems with knees due to overloads, another 4 complaints of pain in the feet, and 1 scoliosis worsened. So, before leading to the section, go through an examination in a physical education clinic and consult a doctor.
    I will not clog the ether, those who are dissatisfied will give advice. Why did the people's front and public chamber create GDP? You elected deputies, voted? Leaders of the regions elected-voted? They are your chosen ones here with them and demand attention to their problems. On several central channels, staged programs on legal educational program take place every year. Stir, be more active. hi
  24. marmalade
    marmalade 10 September 2015 11: 27 New
    +2
    I completely agree with Balu. Professional examinations, if properly organized and conducted in a quality manner, are not intended to treat diseases, but to determine the group of people in need of treatment and to draw up a plan of treatment and preventive measures. In addition, they are designed to detect socially significant diseases at an early stage. A real example: in one of the schools of the capital, for many years, professional examinations of teachers were carried out “on notes” - notes on medical examinations were made in personal medical books (with the submitted “accompanying documents”). In the end - "all is well, beautiful marquise." In 2015, everything changed - a principal medical worker forced all teachers to undergo a medical examination, as a result - an open form of tuberculosis was revealed in one teacher (a good teacher, by the way). That is, hundreds of children have long been at risk of contracting a serious illness, and not only because the doctors are bad, but also to a greater extent because the citizens themselves are not interested in evaluating their health !!!
    And that’s all - the result of illiteracy of the population in health matters! The easiest way is to blame the doctor who is receiving the appointment at the clinic or standing at the operating table for his indifference, illiteracy, etc. But believe me, the reason is not in them, but in the system. Young doctors under the age of 30 years, i.e. University graduates in state. medicine is now no more than 5-7%: the salary is relatively low, the volumes of workload and responsibility are huge, social protection is zero. That does not enjoy the prestige of the profession of a doctor in our time. And about the allocation of money for health care - yes. 3,5% of GDP is a considerable amount. But! How is it spent? Directly to hospitals and clinics reaches a maximum of 25-30% of the allocated amounts, the rest of the system in the form of various insurance funds, payment for the stupid ideas of ill-conceived reform is mastered by herself. But this money is needed not only to pay a decent salary to employees, but also to pay for the maintenance of buildings, the purchase of medical equipment and consumables for it, etc. In addition, a paradoxical situation is created - accountants and other shelupon get paid more than qualified doctors.
    Believe me, I do not reduce the whole essence of the problem solely to wages. This is only one of the factors ensuring the successful functioning of the system. But to reduce everything only to the fault of doctors is illogical. The problem is multifaceted, there are no ways to solve it yet. Moreover, I am growing in the belief that those responsible for the functioning of health care see the main goal as improving the efficiency of the system, and imitating the vigorous reform efforts - each new head considers it a sign of bad taste not to introduce any innovation, while it doesn’t matter whether it is thought out or not. So medicine shies away from purchases of ultra-expensive equipment to small clinics (there is no one to work on - good specialists do not go to such a level of remuneration), to unreasonable staff cuts. Hence the conclusion - until there is a strong manager, a statesman who implements a sound strategy, dissatisfaction with medicine on the forum will only grow.
  25. akudr48
    akudr48 10 September 2015 12: 17 New
    0
    Some sugary panegyric in favor of an incomprehensible popular front.

    What is popular in it, if only that they love our rower on galleys there more than everyone else, they can’t directly tear themselves away from love.

    And there is no one to stop the ugliness and fall of medical care in Russia without ONF, which means.

    Madame Minister cannot, the government with parsley at the head cannot, the President himself (of course, he is a young man and can still do a lot in other respects) cannot do without the ONF either.

    The author hopes, and hope perishes last, as you know. As well as the hopes of young men nourish. But you will not be full of hope. Since, while I live, I hope for quality medicine. Although unrequited.

    "At the same time, I frankly want to hope that the ONF forum on health issues in Russia has not turned into a passing event."

    Of course, you can’t turn into a checkpoint, since this event is already anal.
  26. beer-youk
    beer-youk 10 September 2015 12: 18 New
    0
    Quote: boris-1230
    misdiagnosis thing has become frequent

    I do not agree! Our diagnosis is error-free. Two diagnoses:
    1. If you come, why come?
    2. What did you think about before?
  27. kirgudu
    kirgudu 10 September 2015 12: 29 New
    0
    Once every two years I go through this physical examination for admission, at least once they found something. For some reason, the day after he thundered to the hospital for three weeks. And at the physical examination - everything is OK!
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 10 September 2015 12: 47 New
      0
      I do not believe. If so, I recommend contacting an insurance company.
  28. Aleksandr1959
    Aleksandr1959 10 September 2015 12: 56 New
    0
    Just in a few days for this event in Russia-24 showed an interview with the Minister of Health, and on RBC an interview with some head of the MHI Fund. According to them, h, with the exception of certain shortcomings, in individual regions ... everything moves forward with leaps and bounds.

    Once every two years I go through this physical examination for admission, at least once they found something. For some reason, the day after he thundered to the hospital for three weeks. And at the physical examination - everything is OK!

    Our company has inspections once a year. Used to be in a state clinic. Now two years spent in commercial. Immediately increased the number of additional examinations. But not because the clinic needs to be increased so much, but according to the approach of the doctors of this clinic. Instead of fluorography, an x-ray of high definition is performed. After this X-ray, all my past fluorograms were taken, which were not made on the antediluvian equipment itself. According to the results of analyzes, cardiograms, other people were forced to undergo an additional examination with specialized specialists.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 10 September 2015 15: 38 New
      +2
      If you were engaged in photography, then you understand the difference between fluorography and digital radiography.
      For example, using a generic electric or Toshiba digital X-ray machine, you can see how the bronchus, large vessels of the lungs function, and generally track the bronchus within a depth of 1 cm. This allows you to distinguish calcinate from an oblique section of the vessel and bronchus. I am not a radiologist, but by profession I always read pictures and tomograms myself, and then I look at the description. Habit, so taught.
      Additional examinations? MHI guarantees a minimum that does not include, for example, tumor markers or Helicobacter tests (the cause of peptic ulcer disease). ECG, ultrasound of the heart will be done in the clinic. Daily monitoring of ECG and pressure, not every clinic can afford. An ECG with a load and partial pressure measurement of oxygen and CO2 is also not everywhere. Thank you tell the managers that the company can afford to pay for the in-depth examination. You can still list the shortcomings for a long time. I recall with bitterness the order of the Ministry of Health of the USSR in which the whole range of modern medical equipment and equipment that underwent clinical trials was listed, plants were designated ...
      These 2 clowns, the demagogue and the traitor Gorbachev, Mason and drunk ebn destroyed the country.
      1. VseDoFeNi
        VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 15: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Balu
        MHI guarantees a minimum that does not include, for example, tumor markers or Helicobacter tests (the cause of peptic ulcer disease).

        I have my own theory of Helicobacter, which differs from the official one, no matter what the Shnobel Prizes for.
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 10 September 2015 15: 56 New
          +1
          Whether you like the official theory or not, it is universally recognized. It is generally recognized that other factors influence the pathology of the stomach and intestines: reflux, stress, etc.
          1. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 16: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Balu
            Whether you like the official theory or not, it is universally recognized.

            The question is whether the universally accepted is true. I'm sure not. The reason is not Helicobacter, but the pyloric sphincter is open constantly or periodically, which forms the total volume of the stomach + duodenum. With all the consequences. Although this is also only a symptom.
            1. Baloo
              Baloo 10 September 2015 16: 23 New
              +1
              Sphincter dysfunction also occurs at other levels of the gastrointestinal tract, the phenomenon you describe is what we studied 2/3 of the naz life at the institute and put everything in order.
              The causes of disease can be different.
              1. VseDoFeNi
                VseDoFeNi 10 September 2015 16: 31 New
                0
                Quote: Balu
                The causes of disease can be different.

                Yes, they have one reason - everything is useful, that it got into your mouth. In other words, we are digestive disabled.
      2. Aleksandr1959
        Aleksandr1959 10 September 2015 16: 09 New
        0
        Thank you tell the managers that the company can afford to pay for the in-depth examination.

        So no one is against it. Moreover, as you professionally noticed, after this x-ray a fairly detailed description is given, which includes both the heart and lungs and large vessels. In contrast to the relatively recent fluorograms, after which it was written "No pathological changes were found."
        By the way, the department of culture organized in the same clinic an annual examination of teachers of music and art schools.
        And about the treatment system for compulsory medical insurance. I came across such a situation. Bursitis of the elbow joint. He is being treated in the state. polyclinic traumatologist. Traumatologist loaded with people with fractures ..etc. I am being referred to the surgeon. There they tell me that this is absolutely not their business ... and the fact that you can’t get to the traumatologist ... is also not theirs. I'm going to a private clinic. There nevermind with what came. At the reception sits the same head of the surgical department ... who sent me to FIG in the state polyclinic. In a private clinic he would treat with great pleasure, but I went to another specialist.
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 10 September 2015 16: 46 New
          +1
          This problem is more common at your age and occurs without indicating injury. Microtraumatization is possible due to frequently repeated monotonous movements or as part of a metabolic disorder. The problem is borderline for a traumatologist and surgeon. There was an injury-in trapunkt. There was no injury - the surgeon happily awaits a meeting with you.
          If there are no obvious signs of inflammation in the form of a change in skin color and elevated temperature above this place, puncture, evacuation, lavage with novocaine, again evacuation and diprospan into the cavity, but a little. Pressure wound, magnetotherapy, control. Failed to cope in a week puncture, lavage, drainage for 1-3 days, pressure bandage. Failed to cope in a couple of weeks, in a planned manner, excision of the inflamed bursa. As for the situation, I don’t fit into private medicine with soviet education, I’m embarrassed. Youth with pleasure. We are adults and we understand the effect of remuneration on self-esteem, satisfaction with the quality of life ... Somehow.
          1. Aleksandr1959
            Aleksandr1959 10 September 2015 17: 36 New
            +2
            Thanks for the consultation. The cause, most likely, was microtrauma. And maybe an increased load on the arm. Treated, as you write. First, they brought down inflammation, then puncture, then again puncture after a week and the introduction of diprospan. After that, when loading, he bandaged his hand in the region of the elbow joint with an elastic bandage.
            As for private clinics. Now, between them, there has been some cocurrence. At least I see in our city.
            There are also positive aspects in the area. In a neighboring small town, a new clinic is being built. To provide her with staff, the governor allocated money for official housing for specialists. After a certain time of work, it becomes the property. There are two purely vascular clinics in the region.
            By the way, the last time a young specialist treated me. 32 years. But before that, he had worked for 6 years in a traumatology hospital + duty in an emergency room.
  29. theodore rasp
    theodore rasp 10 September 2015 13: 01 New
    +3
    Quote: fif21
    You’ll treat badly, I’ll go to another doctor, and I’ll tell everyone I know about it

    Oh, holy simplicity, which is worse than theft ... But what if the other doctor is 150 km away? In winter and summer it is a 4 hour drive, and in autumn and spring more than a day.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 10 September 2015 15: 41 New
      +1
      Ask the deputies to let them move, develop remote telediagnostic technologies. In Tatarstan, all central district hospitals can go to the RCU around the clock, and some can even consult from the operating rooms — he was present.
    2. fif21
      fif21 10 September 2015 16: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Theodore Rasp
      Quote: fif21 You will treat badly, I will go to another doctor, and I will tell all my acquaintances about it, oh, holy simplicity, which is worse than theft ... And if there is a 150 km lane to another doctor? In winter and summer it is a 4 hour drive, and in autumn and spring more than a day.
      I translate into Russian: A bad doctor will not be able to work, as his earnings will depend on the number of patients. Well, didn’t you hear about air ambulance? If paid, Aibolit will fly to you by helicopter! The state has signed its powerlessness to create quality medicine in the country (there are no funds in the budget) So let it give it to private business and insurance companies. And he will spend the money on insurance policies for the poor and senior citizens. That is what it is about.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  30. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 10 September 2015 13: 38 New
    +2
    By the way, now we are “optimizing” medicine. Interestingly, after “optimization”, how many people will remain?
  31. Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 10 September 2015 15: 54 New
    +1
    the ratio of salaries of chief doctors and ordinary doctors of clinics,


    Good point, for interest in the Krasnodar Territory, this difference is on average 10 times. Although in the spa structures even more.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 10 September 2015 16: 48 New
      +2
      This is the most correct and relevant observation, since the pension of the head doctor is several times higher than the salary of a surgeon of the highest category by 1.5 rates.
  32. leon1204id
    leon1204id 10 September 2015 21: 27 New
    +2
    Question to administrators, and where does the weapon of Russia ?.
    Health problems are not resolved in such forums. There is a public chamber where Dr. Roshal oversees medical issues. There are scientific advice, there is the AMS of the Russian Federation which can directly contact.
    And we need to discuss "bad medicine" as a ballerina to discuss Directions for improving the efficiency of the ACS Coalition. laughing fool wassat
  33. Gunther
    Gunther 10 September 2015 22: 58 New
    +1
    In my opinion, our government has taken a course on paid medicine, bureaucrats have left departmental medicine for themselves, and for “normal citizens” - “free” insurance.
    Although the goal of invention is cunning:
    "In total, the Moscow government employs about 25 thousand civil servants. Until mid-December, all of them must receive compensation for themselves and for one of the family members - a child or spouse (spouse). The replacement of the medical care of officials prescribed by the Law on the Civil Service of the City of Moscow with annual monetary compensation is prescribed in the Decree of the Mayor of Moscow dated January 22.01.2014, 3 No. 23.09.2014-UM.This year, in accordance with the order of the Government of Moscow dated September 532, 52 No. 41,18-RP, this compensation was established in the amount of XNUMX thousand rubles to the official himself and XNUMX thousand rubles to "monetization" applies to retired officials. "
    http://www.scientificmedicine.ru/mednews/11796

    In short, the salvation of drowning people is the work of the drowning themselves, we must try to maintain a healthy lifestyle and not take a steam bath Article 7, paragraph 1 and paragraph 2 of the Constitution of Russia :-)

    PS
    I listened to V. Bortko the other day - he complained about the low content of 350t.r, but promised that if anything, then he was ready without pants, but for good.
    Bortko is a good director, but deputy, in my opinion, is changing.
    When I hear from "servants of the people" about hardships, I want to advise you to go to work much easier, for example, to cut a coal into a mine.