American Patriot "too tough" Russian "Iskander"

The tactical missile system "Iskander", an indispensable participant in various exhibitions and salons, personifies the strike power of the Russian ground forces. He is not afraid of even the latest versions of the American air defense system "Patriot", the agency writes Messenger of Mordovia.

“The launcher of the complex is made on the chassis of a highly mobile four-axle vehicle of high traffic. Its weight is more than 42 t. Maximum speed - up to 80 km / h. Power reserve - up to 1000 km. Crew - 3 people. Number of missiles on one PU - 2 pcs. The flight range of the export version of the Iskander-E is 280 km. Versions for the Russian army are even more long-range, according to some data - up to 500 km ", - leads the agency characteristics of OTRK.

According to the developers, “the missiles of the complex are made using Stealth technology; they can maneuver during the flight and hide behind various interferences.”

As for the American Patriot, it can successfully fight only with outdated Scud missiles, while the latest Russian developments, it is still too hard for them.

“Therefore, the operational-tactical missile systems of the new generation are an excellent deterrent from various military provocations of potential opponents who hope to sit under an American anti-aircraft umbrella. Will not work. Retribution will be swift and guaranteed, ”concludes the Herald of Mordovia.

Comments

[roskot]

Let them not rely on the American umbrella. His Iskander patted.

[Finches]

Oh! Miloshivich would have had these complexes at the time, but the S-300 still ....! Europe would have been different now!

[siberalt]

Oh, if Kutuzov had machine guns and "grads", Moscow would not have surrendered!

[Now we are free]

Mdaaa, that the "Patriots" did not help the Saudis very much against the old antediluvian "Tochka-U" in the hands of the "Highly qualified" Houthis ... What to say about "Iskander-M"?

[Byshido_dis]

If there were 5 times more such complexes. Then it seems to me not a single mongrel would not open his mouth in Europe ....

[gav6757]

Iskander?
About tsilo !!!

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Now we are free

Mdaaa, that the "Patriots" did not help the Saudis very much against the old antediluvian "Tochka-U" in the hands of the "Highly qualified" Houthis ... What to say about "Iskander-M"?

Impact "Tochka-U" - the assumption of incompetent sources. The Saudis, with their unjustified losses due to illiterate actions, even a grenade from an RPG-7 will be presented as an ATGM of the last generation.

[Tusv]

Quote: sir.jonn

even the RPG-7 grenade will be presented as the latest generation ATGM.

So the seventh RPG inherited according to NATO and Israeli technology and ours, purer than any Jewels. Etozh the same Kalash, only shoots from the shoulder and against turntables and tanks

[unclevad]

They also missed "Scuds".
"After the war, the official army statistics of the effectiveness of the Patriot system gradually lowered their estimates:
in March 1991, the overall success rate was 96%; in may 1991
years - 69%; and 1992% in April 59. "http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/ru/archive/sgsr08sullivan.pdf

[ism_ek]

To bring down Point U is not at all trivial. Flight time - 20 ... 30 seconds

[Finches]

It's good that at least Alexander Nevsky was remembered!

[svp67]

Quote: siberalt

Oh, if Kutuzov had machine guns and "grads", Moscow would not have surrendered!

I'm afraid that Napoleon would then have "pieces" and tanks ...

[Archon]

and if in the 1200's in Russia there were T-90, then Genghis Khan would not have climbed.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

And if in Russia Genghis Khan was the head of the administration of the Trans-Baikal Territory, then the T-90 would not be needed.

[Uncle VasyaSayapin]

Not, for the existing infrastructure, a Jedi detachment, hand dragons, giant eagles, or at least the army of the dead, headed by Aragorn, are better.

[satris]

And Napoleon has the Mistral. He would not have left Paris then: he would have been looking for where to attach them.

[Tusv]

Quote: Finches

Oh! Miloshivich would have had these complexes at the time, but the S-300 still ....! Europe would have been different now!

Des about three hundred delayed the bombing for a month. But this is what Slobadan thought when he received such a reprieve

[Maj.]

I thought to sell not to sell, they won’t help, but at the same time, our elite rotted in full swing. That's the result.

[ZKB]

but I think they sold it ...

[Imigrantt]

Oh! Miloshivich would have had these complexes at the time, but the S-300 still ....! Europe would have been different now!

YES AND THE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE US AT THIS TIME OTHER !!! EVERYTHING WOULD BE ELSE !!!!

[sneg6680]

But Yeltsin drank not only Russia but also other countries

[damirez]

let me ask a rhetorical question: "Why then did they vote for such a president?"

[Anti-ukra]

Oh, if my grandmother had .... th she would be a grandfather.

[Tusv]

Quote: Anti-Ukr

Oh, if my grandmother had .... th she would be a grandfather.

In this case, another variation of this saying is probably more suitable:
Grandma remembered when she was grandfather

[Vitaly Anisimov]

"Patriot" is not the same ...! I think the Iskanders are just a seed ... I think there is something else, it's not for nothing that Putin is so calm and impudent with the West!

[kocclissi]

So they are afraid of cruise missiles:

[Tusv]

What is the difference between Xa one hundred and Xa 102. They say that the first is not nuclear. BUT love TTX rolls over. Little Johnny promised a carabile variant - the Pentagon is hysterical. EPR is low, Range and speed are a dream. It is a pity that so far only a white swan can carry these birds

[shans2]

the 95 on the external sling carries 8 pieces, there are pictures on the network.

[VeteranS]

In 1971, I served as an airborne gunner-radio operator of the military service on the TU-95, participated in the Yug exercise ... So, under the fuselage we carried one cruise missile (drone) ... At a distance of almost 500 km. to the target (an American group with an aircraft carrier) launched ... the aircraft rocket flew first along the guidance radio beam, and then independently ... in the nose of the missile there could be a nuclear warhead ... several kilometers away. her wings were shot back to the target and she flew at high speed like a real rocket (bomb) at the target ... I can imagine what power is now on our modernized Tu-95s .... Let the Americans walk with diapers like that, they will be very useful to them when meeting our cruise missiles!

[satris]

And so the diapers are Kevlar!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Tusv

It is a pity that so far only a white swan can carry these birds

There was infa that 885 ave. Also armed with this charm.

[Koshak]

Quote: Tusv

It is a pity that so far only a white swan can carry these birds

I would not be surprised if it turns out that we have somewhere in the stash there is a ground version of the X-101 (102) It is not for nothing that the Yankees lament about the violation of the INF Treaty.

[Vadim237]

Patriot will not protect against Iskanders, but the THHAD missile defense system is likely to be able, Germany decided to purchase this complex.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Finches

Oh! Miloshivich would have had these complexes at the time, but the S-300 still ....! Europe would have been different now!

During Milosevic’s time, we would have had a different president. Europe would have been different now.

[go21zd45few]

And the Serbs are good fellows, they shot down an invulnerable, and invisible plane from a "double-barreled gun", here is the stealth technology for you. The need for invention is cunning fellows.

[vyinemeynen]

In an interview with Dejan Deci (a Serbian sniper in LDNR), he said that Russia offered Serbia to acquire the S-300 even in very generous installments, but Serbia REFUSED!

[dr.Bo]

The article does not seem to be about anything, but acts as a "balm for the soul."

[Silkway0026]

Most likely they are hoping for Iron Bonce, ugh you !!!, Dome. According to the latest information, the Dome is very advanced - now it intercepts not only sewer pipes, but even water pipes ... The truth is not all, but it has already begun!

[shans2]

by night there will be an explosion of zhydobandera on your comment)

[marlin1203]

Do not rely on Iskander in the "big batch". The complex is excellent, but it is a high-precision weapon for single-shot point strikes against key targets (bridges, bases, control points, launch points) and there are not thousands of them. The main role in the battle will still be played by artillery and, as recent events show, MLRS, as well as, oddly enough, tanks, which many analysts have already written off as the main striking force.

[sneg6680]

Escander steers !!! Russia forward!

[bekjan]

Strong modesty adorned !!!

[vadson]

but how they wanted to deprive us of this type of weapon from the mattresses, they even chatted with missiles to cut them, although you could send them away

[kartalovkolya]

Yes, not "talked", but ordered, because the agent has no choice! And then they hung the medal "For the victory over the USSR in the Cold War", I don't know why after all this the "marked" is alive and well! Yes, the corresponding organs were almost completely destroyed by him, and the rest were in the position of the letter "ZU", in the sense : "... what do you please ...", but really there was not at least one well-aimed shooter ?!

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: kartalovkolya

Yes, not "talked", but ordered, because the agent has no choice! And then the medal was hung "For the victory over the USSR in the Cold War"

Well, nothing, soon we will play the situation in the opposite direction. We are not vindictive - just a good memory

[Maj.]

no shit, we are brakes and forgive everything, but in vain.

[sneg6680]

It was necessary to fill up another hunchbacked country now for sure!

[Vladimir 1964]

The complex is excellent, only the author of the publication, or the one who came up with a similar phrase

According to the developers, “the missiles of the complex are made using Stealth technology; they can maneuver during the flight and hide behind various interferences.”

I could not disclose it in more detail (within the permissible).

[Puler]

Maximum target range:
500 km Iskander-K (2000 km with a cruise missile R-500) If you believe Wikipedia ...

[Vadim237]

The P 500 rocket has a launch range of 500 kilometers.

[sneg6680]

It turns out that the complex is both short and medium range!

[Mera joota]

Quote: Vladimir 1964

I could not disclose it in more detail (within the permissible).

In order to understand that what has been said is nothing more than idle talk, just look at 9M723. Cone and cylinder with wings, stealth no more than any other OTRK missile. This is with regards to stealth.
9M723 can maneuver (intensively with high overload) only with an undeveloped solid-fuel engine, as soon as it burns out (terminal section), the efficiency of gas-dynamic rudders is multiplied by zero. From aerodynamic rudders at heights of 10km. and above there is no sense.
This is about maneuverability.

[VP]

It’s good to be able to determine all the performance characteristics with a look at the picture, I envy
A single-stage rocket with a solid-fuel engine working not only at launch, it is enough to maneuver on the trajectory and maneuver when approaching the target.
Gas-dynamic rudders operate the entire flight route.
Housing with a radar absorbing surface.

[Mera joota]

Quote: VP

A single-stage rocket with a solid-fuel engine working not only at launch, it is enough to maneuver on the trajectory and maneuver when approaching the target.
Gas-dynamic rudders operate the entire flight route.

And who tells you such nonsense ...
Simple parsing. The developer claims that the 9M723 rocket has a flight range of 500 km., While achieving a maximum speed of 2100 m / s. Note that this is the maximum achievable speed, the average speed of the rocket is much lower. But we can omit this question because the average speed is not known to us. Let’s take as a basis the speed of 2 m / s with which the rocket flies 100 m. It is not difficult to calculate the time for which the rocket will fly this distance, 500 seconds! Those. almost 000 minutes! Where have you seen a solid propellant rocket burner capable of burning such a time? What will be its size? For comparison. The mass of the first stage of the Trident-238D4 ICBM is 2! Tons, of which 5 tons account for solid fuel. The operating time of the first stage (until complete burnout) is 38 seconds., During this time the first stage raises ICBMs to a height of only 35,5 km. You can compare with our solid propellant rocket engines, on the Point-U propulsion system of the 68M30 rocket it works for a maximum of 9 seconds.
Therefore, leave these stupid conjectures that the solid propellant rocket engine works on the entire flight site.

[Sivan]

Quote: Mera Joota

9M723 can maneuver (intensively with high overload) only with an undeveloped solid-fuel engine, as soon as it burns out (terminal section), the efficiency of gas-dynamic rudders is multiplied by zero.

This is disa. A few months ago has already been discussed. Now I can’t find it right away, but the gas-dynamic rudders work throughout the flight.

[Mera joota]

Quote: SIvan

Now I can’t find it right away, but the gas-dynamic rudders work throughout the flight.

And you will not find. The operation of gas-dynamic rudders requires the operation of a solid propellant rocket engine. The operating time of the solid propellant rocket engine does not exceed 30-40 seconds, this is their peculiarity, it is impossible to turn off the solid propellant rocket for a while and how to reduce the fuel supply on the liquid propellant rocket engine.
The range is 500 m., The maximum speed is 000 m / s, the speed at the terminal section is 2 m / s. (http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-100.html), it’s not difficult to calculate the flight time that you think is equal to the operating time of the solid propellant rocket engine ...

[Lenivets]

"There is no sense from aerodynamic rudders at altitudes of 10 km and above."
Yes you are raving!

Replace 10 km. 30 km. and then you go around.

[Rurikovich]

“Patriot” and about “Scuds” “successfully” fought only because they knew when, what and where they were flying from! In the case of this air defense system, the defense is weaker than the attack! And even if our S-300 family is constantly being improved, this cannot be said about the Patriot. Yesterday...
Well, just so that the local Euro-indigenous people sleep peacefully, then you can put this junk to them And even more so, in the wake of hysterical Russophobia, the ancient

[Tusv]

Quote: Rurikovich

And even if our S-300 family is constantly being improved, the same cannot be said about the Patriot.

"The professor may be a mug, but the equipment is with him."
The third version of Patriot is at a decent level. In terms of escort, our four hundred is an order of magnitude higher. But this complex has 2 drawbacks. As you don’t upgrade, you still can’t reduce the reaction time below 25 seconds, and the second, most important one. A satellite in such weather as it is now over Moscow distorts information.
Therefore, even one hundred and twenty-fifth is better than Patriot.
Our complexes are good in that they have the main function of landing, and we trust RTV to watch

[Rurikovich]

That and that. Ours are designed not for beauty, but for business.
And it would be interesting to watch our reaction to the type When it's cloudy, don't shoot at us, otherwise our companions are blind and we can't answer " Although the "Patriots" should not be underestimated ... But still they do not reach our heights, DO NOT REACH!

[Bronik]

The article inspires us with optimism, and we won’t be worried about the state mongrels.

[sever.56]

The thing is that our developers are proactive. "Iskander", "Yars", "Armata" and many other things are an example.

[Tusv]

according to some reports - up to 500 km

And Americans trynd about 2500. What data to believe? Around deception, as well as the flight of this bird. But still this is a solitary pebble (in NATO terminology) gets off, even the 125th. True, if the Starts (starting battery) have time to reload the PU in 25 seconds on the rocket. The first salvo of 16 missiles will not be enough

[RUSIVAN]

Our "Iskander" is the best hangover for western badunyash heads ...

[rotmistr60]

Quote: Rurikovich

our S-300 family is constantly being improved, but this cannot be said about the Patriot

I agree with you. Moreover, as it turns out, even with the not bad characteristics of the American complex, PR played the main violin. It is necessary to sell something, but in order to successfully sell you need excellent advertising, plus "soft" pressure on your NATO partners.

[slavaisrael]

You know, of course you can with caps. But. This complex was not intended to defeat UAVs, but several months ago, Israeli air defense in the Golan Heights by the Patriot complex successfully shot down UAVs (most likely of Iranian origin). At the same time, we have Block 3 in service, and the Americans already have Block 4. On the set, you can clearly see how 2 missiles were fired, the first hit the target and, in the absence of such, it self-destructed as it should in an air defense missile.

[VP]

There is little difference in shooting down a low-speed UAV that even the Wasp will take, the main thing is to detect a missile flying at a speed of over 7,5 thousand km / h. going along a quasi-ballistic (and therefore not calculable) trajectory.

[slavaisrael]

So why fence the garden? If 40 year old air defense systems are capable of shooting down modern aircraft. Can then build new hospitals instead of missiles? After all, and so has no analogue in the world.

[Stanislas]

Quote: slavaisrael

After all, and so has no analogue in the world

Envy is a bad feeling.

[mitrich]

Well, of course, where can we be a sibling, only among the God-chosen and their master, without whom they would not have been able to survive a month, everything is kosher, but we have made rusty or made from turnips. Already got their orthodox propaganda.

[a-cola]

How intelligently and figuratively said! Plus! Sorry plus only one ...

[a-cola]

How intelligently and figuratively said! Plus! Sorry plus only one ...

[mitrich]

Well, of course, where can we be a sibling, only among the God-chosen and their master, without whom they would not have been able to survive a month, everything is kosher, but we have made rusty or made from turnips. Already got their orthodox propaganda.

[Xergey]

It’s good to build in you, of course, but as soon as you are amer’s bent to the fullest, that’s why you live quietly with your legs apart, you’ll still be handled like hohlam, but we need to protect and feed ourselves, so we live as we can and you live like you conscience tells.

[satris]

“We have already overtaken everyone in the number of doctors. Now we would have to lag behind in the number of patients” - M. Zhvanetsky "The rescue of the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves" - Ilf and Petrov. Exercise and you won't need doctors.

[Tusv]

Quote: slavaisrael

This complex was not intended to defeat UAVs, but several months ago, Israeli air defense in the Golan Heights by the Patriot complex successfully shot down UAVs

Count it up. The UAV shell can shoot down offline. Type pressed the button and a beer truck to drink beer. When I looked at it - the eyes themselves on the ass wanted to be pulled.
And even it is not easy to bring down a sound ax, but a maneuvering seven-swing fool learns, learns and learns. And Onyx Americans still can’t cut

[slavaisrael]

Play less games.

[Volzhanin]

In "toys", as we see from history, the Yankermans and Aglo-Saxons play with the Zionists. They will not play enough of the war.
All climb and climb into our garden, do not calm down ...
The question is - what the hell do you all here in Russia need? Smeared with honey?
Some of them exist on a miserable islet, others live on another continent - what the hell are being screwed to our mainland? Let their blacks spud. Still others, in theory, Stalin, should erect monuments and pray, as if they were God for the given territory.

How lucky you all are that Russian people are not evil and not greedy. But don’t make us angry if you don’t want your existence to end. But we can arrange it. So, Jewish citizens, close your mouth and do not yap at Russia. You are still alive only thanks to her!

[arane]

Do you really consider the messenger of Mordovia a source of expert truth? Something skepticism parses me ......
Iskander, of course, the Pts Pts system is good, and is probably capable of breaking through the air defense system based on the Patriot. But, as it’s not so simple .....
I am not an expert in air defense, I can’t say anything, but .....

Compare with the scud is not correct! A skud is an iron pipe flying along ballistics not very far and not very fast, without any maneuvers there. In essence, this is a Soviet rocket of the beginning of the era of missile weapons!

I would like to hear the opinion of experts in this matter .....

[Barakuda]

SCUD is an excellent target, as the Patriot missed on it, the mind is incomprehensible. If we fired at the shells from the Katyusha (the reflector was really screwed on) from the WASP, then we would have hit the scud for sure.
And who is the true owner of the "Bulletin of Mordovia", can anyone know?

[Mera joota]

Quote: Barracuda

SCAD is an excellent target, as Patriot missed it, the mind is incomprehensible.

It didn’t miss, and the warhead of the missile launcher could not always disable the warhead of the Scud. Different things. Therefore, the Americans relied on the principle of hit-to-kill and successfully implemented it.

[satris]

It misses very simply: SCAD is an iron pipe (see above), and the iron rusts. And rust is non-magnetic and does not reflect radio waves. That miss.

[Generalissimus]

The Bulletin of Mordovia is a source that provides information on the military topics of precisely the expert class. Moreover, often the Bulletin of Mordovia is generally the only source on a particular topic on the military-industrial complex, which knows something among the media. And experts are accustomed to trust the information of the Bulletin of Mordovia. Both for the quality of information and for reliability.

[VP]

And what does the source have to do with it?
Just compare the performance characteristics of the complex and the latest Patriot.
Iskander can fly at an altitude of 50 km, the Patriot PAK-3 operates at 15-20.
Those. interception is theoretically possible only when diving Iskander missiles at a target.
The Patriot PAC-3 has a maximum target speed of 1600 m / s. Iskander has a rocket speed of 2100 m / s. On a dive, probably more.
PAC-1 has a higher target speed than treshka, up to 2500 m / s. But it can intercept a missile up to 1800. At the same time, it works with a low probability on tactical missiles, somewhere around 0,3. If a tactical missile maneuvers, then the probability is generally awful, even if the speed of the tactical missile is in the permissible range and not like that of Iskander in excess.

[MolGro]

Yes, actually the scads were too tough for them.

[Vadim237]

This Scuds to the first generation Patriotov was too tough, but no one knows the following modifications of PAC 2 and PAC 3.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

The guys mishap .... Beautiful dears went, trembling straight through the body!

[inpu]

Yes, magic ...

They would have shown where it went. : /

[pasha88tt]

Of course too tough, in fear the whole of Europe! )))

[kartalovkolya]

Well, now the "experts" will abandon their affairs and begin to divulge the "military secret", no one will ever tell you anything specific, except for general phrases, about Iskander, and will not show you! And to draw conclusions from Wikipedia and from our statements "is not quite partners "just stupid!

[arane]

Quote: kartalovkolya

Well, now the "experts" will abandon their affairs and begin to divulge the "military secret", no one will ever tell you anything specific, except for general phrases, about Iskander, and will not show you! And to draw conclusions from Wikipedia and from our statements "is not quite partners "just stupid!

Actually, dear Kartalov Kolya, I was interested in the opinion of experts regarding the capabilities of the patriot as an air defense system as a whole! Nevertheless, plus you for your vigilance! The enemy is eavesdropping!

The article is propaganda in nature and may not have anything with reality! From this article we can conclude that our potential adversary has no air defense per se! So, shoot down the skads, and then through one!
Underestimating the enemy always leads to disastrous results.

[VP]

Iskander-E has long been sold for export.

[starshina pv]

well done, "Bulletin of Mordovia"! Westerners cry!

[BOB044]

They rest under an American umbrella, and the earth will rest in peace for them.

[Mera joota]

Kindergarten ... Why did everyone get the idea that Iskander are afraid of the West? 500 kg. the warhead is capable of relatively accurately hitting when launched from a distance of 500 km. So what? The worse is the plane with a range of much more than 500 km. from 500kg. a smart aerial bomb?
Well, at the expense of the integrity of Iskander. OTR 9M723 can maneuver only when the solid propellant rocket engine is running, after fuel is exhausted (that is, in the terminal section) maneuvers are possible only with aerodynamic surfaces whose efficiency occurs only at altitudes below 10 km.
The fact that the Patriot can shoot down the CC at altitudes of more than 10 km. I hope it’s no secret to anyone, even in the last century older air defense systems were also able to do this.
The question then is why on 9M723 gas-dynamic rudders? So that the enemy could not calculate the flight path, and not in order to get away from the interceptor missile.

[slavaisrael]

Or maybe these very aerodynamic wheels just simply adjust the battle head on the target. Without any anti-aircraft maneuver? I can hardly imagine the maneuver of a ballistic missile in the final section. This is balistic.

[31rus]

That's right, you can't hope that Iskander is a panacea, everything should "work" in a complex, intelligence, rap, aviation, brigade, then there will be an effect and of course not stop improving and developing new

[volunteer]

He is not afraid of even the most recent versions of the American Patriot air defense system, writes the Bulletin of Mordovia

Sorry, but the source is from the category of OBS (one grandmother said). It may be true, but there are no reliable data or practical results. And thank God, by the way.

The reaction of some commentators is simply surprising: on the website of some agency they wrote something - "Well, that's it, now we'll tear everyone apart!", "You can sleep well!", "We are the best!", "Hurray, hurray, hurray! ", and jokes about diapers. Reminds Americans with their belief in their own exceptionalism, because that's what they said on TV ...

It seems that on this site more and more trolls of varying degrees of thickness are fed from Savushkin. Sometimes it’s disgusting to read.

[Tusv]

Quote: Volonter

The reaction of some commentators is simply surprising: on the website of some agency they wrote something - "Well, that's it, now we'll tear everyone apart!", "You can sleep well!", "We are the best!", "Hurray, hurray, hurray! ", and jokes about diapers. Reminds Americans with their belief in their own exceptionalism, because that's what they said on TV ...

Just go down and serve for the good of the motherland. You learn a lot about patriotism and the reliability of our technology. For example, the combat readiness of P-12/18 is treated by advancing the block - everything glows, then everything is in order, it does not glow - replaced and sees everything again. Now replacing the hard drive on the server also looks like. How simple it all turns out.
We also have caps measured in megatons, you will throw a couple and they will think there, and if life is on Mars.
It would be different, we would speak English obscene, but why do we need this lack of language?

[VP]

Quote: Mera Joota

The worse is the plane with a range of much more than 500 km. from 500kg. a smart aerial bomb?

Vulnerability.
The ratio of the cost of the aircraft + bombs versus the cost of the rocket.
Mobility: a missile can be struck from any ravine; it is not tied to airfield infrastructure. And for the next strike, you do not need to return to base.
Range: Iskander has two missiles, one at 500, the other at 2500 (winged)

Quote: Mera Joota

The fact that the Patriot can shoot down the CC at altitudes of more than 10 km. I hope it’s no secret to anyone, even in the last century older air defense systems were also able to do this.

Of course it’s no secret. The ceiling of the Patriot is 20-25. Iskander can go at 50.

Quote: Mera Joota

OTR 9M723 can only be maneuvered with a solid propellant rocket engine running, after fuel has been exhausted (that is, at the terminal section)

Who told you that her fuel is produced at startup? All sources that I met unequivocally say that there is enough fuel for both route and finish maneuvering. Drop the link to your source.

Quote: Mera Joota

maneuvers are possible only with aerodynamic surfaces whose effectiveness occurs only at altitudes below 10 km.

Moreover - after the launch, the rocket tilts aerodynamic planes in order to reduce visibility And then it is controlled by what you stubbornly refuse to it - in a gas-dynamic way.

[slavaisrael]

Well, at least do not write frank nonsense -

Who told you that her fuel is produced at startup? All sources that I met unequivocally say that there is enough fuel for both route and finish maneuvering. Drop the link to your source.

All ground-to-ground missile rockets produce fuel to their climax.

[Generalissimus]

That's really really stupid
But how convincing!

As for Iskander, then his engine runs until it hits the target.
And his ability to overcome air defense is based on this, in addition to the notorious stealth technologies - on a highly maneuverable movement to the target along a non-ballistic trajectory. The so-called quasi-ballistic. And the movement of Iskander is adjusted before it hits the target and, moreover, Iskander is able to change the target altogether.

[Mera joota]

Quote: Generalissimus

As for Iskander, then his engine runs until it hits the target.

Indicate the operating hours of the solid propellant rocket motor to confirm your words.

[absurdity]

Look online for videos with comments from developers. Iskander is so scary that NP is like everyone else.

[Mera joota]

Quote: VP

Vulnerability.

Come on. F-35 equipped with two UAB JSOW-ER with a range of 200 km. able to complete the task that Iskander is much more effective, moreover, unlike Iskander, it can be recalled from the task. And with stealth technologies and with the capabilities of REB it is much better than the 9M723. Not to mention the great range and flexibility of use.

Of course it’s no secret. The ceiling of the Patriot is 20-25. Iskander can go at 50.

So what? Doesn’t it fall below 50? Let's say the MIM-104F hits 9M723 with a direct hit at an altitude of 10 km. What will it change? Only if the air defense system will be located not at the target, but on the way to it ...

Quote: VP

Who told you that her fuel is produced at startup?

Elementary calculations.

Quote: VP

All sources that I met unequivocally claim that there is enough fuel for both route and finish maneuvering. Drop the link to your source.

Which sources? Patriotic editions? For example, the recognized authority of DIMMI, which is maintained by the site http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-816.html, cites data at a speed of 9M723:

Airspeed - 2100 m / s
Speed ​​at the target - 700-800 m / s

How can you explain a three-fold drop in speed with a solid propellant rocket engine running? Yes, everything is simple, he has the same:

The range of the active section of the trajectory is 12-15 km

If this is not enough for you, then you can calculate the flight time of a rocket at a distance of 500 km., The maximum speed is 2100 m / s, and the target has 800 m / s. If you take it at maximum speed, it turns out (according to your statement) that the solid propellant rocket propellant will last 4 minutes, which is simply unthinkable for such a meager amount of solid fuel. For example, MTKK Space Shuttle side accelerator having 500! tons of solid fuel runs for about 80 seconds.
PS: If domestic chemists developed a solid fuel capable of weighing about 3 tons. burn for 4 minutes with a specific impulse like a 9M723 missile, then an ICBM with a range of 11 km. would be transported in an ordinary semi-trailer, and not on semi-axial MAZs.

[absurdity]

Quote: Mera Joota

For example, MTKK Space Shuttle side accelerator having 500! tons of solid fuel runs for about 80 seconds.

You uncle don't try on these "examples". No logic whatsoever. You better mate part on Iskander teach.

[Sivan]

Quote: Mera Joota

Which sources? Patriotic editions? For example, the recognized authority of DIMMI, which is the site http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-816.html, cites data at a speed of 9M723 ...

You, apparently, did not notice that the link you provided says, for example, this:

Quote: http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-816.html

Control system and guidance - autonomous inertial missile control system (developed by TsNIIAG, Moscow), the missile is controlled by the control system throughout the flight. The control system is based on a gyro-stabilized platform (GSP) and a digital computer (analogue of DAVU OTR "Tochka"). When using missiles with a seeker, the onboard computer of the inertial control system of the missile corrects the trajectory according to the data of the seeker. Control is carried out using aerodynamic and gas-jet rudders and, probably, on the missile part 9M723-1 gasdynamically using reusable shunting solid propellant rocket engines or using a gas generator. The warhead is inseparable.

Therefore, not everything is so simple (s)

[atamankko]

I don’t give a damn about a potential adversary,
and a readiness check should be carried out regularly, which is done.

[yuriy55]

I like everything, especially clips with rocket launches. But when I see a battery commander with flags in his hands, running ahead of the installation, I recall the years of my service, when I could only dream of intercoms ...
PS In the conditions of the enemy’s use of electronic warfare and in daylight - it is irreplaceable ...

[Stanislas]

Quote: yuriy55

one could only dream of intercoms

It is necessary for the driver to see the dimensions, and not "talk over the device".

[voyaka uh]

Here is the Iskander rocket. Short rudders at the rear
for flight stability.
There are no steering wheels for maneuverability in the bow.
Not noticeable holes on the sides of the body - gas-dynamic rudders.
It is not clear to me how a rocket of this form can maneuver.
If someone understands - explain.

[tehnoluks]

Why do you want this, "General" ?! The less you know the better you sleep )

[Generalissimus]

"Holes on the sides of the case" would obviously indicate the use of control gear motors on the product, moreover, using liquid fuel, since the TT is activated once and then combustion continues until it is completely depleted, which for maneuvering (i.e., pulses issued by the control system to the work of a shunting engine, and even more than one) is obviously not suitable.
Iskander - a single-stage rocket with a turbojet engine.

Maneuvering occurs due to the control of the thrust vector. Gas-dynamic control of the thrust vector on Iskander can be implemented (as I understand from available sources of information and common sense) by the method of asymmetric feed of the control flow into the nozzle.
That, in fact, is the whole "secret" of the absence of control surfaces, thrusters and so on in the photograph. The entire "control mechanism" of the thrust vector is actually inside the nozzle and is achieved due to the off-axis outflow of the jet and some other effects.

There is an even simpler explanation. This is the use of mechanical gas rudders, as implemented on old, still Soviet LV designs. This is such a rather massive structural element, reminiscent of an ordinary ship steering wheel. The working surface is covered with a thick layer of ablation coating. Such an element during engine operation can cross the outflow of a gas stream at the required angle.

Between these two principles, from ancient to advanced, there are still a number of methods for controlling the thrust vector of the launch vehicle, in which you will not see anything in the photographs that you were looking for.

[Sivan]

Generalissimus, thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! Could you provide links to the sources you used? It is interesting to read about Iskander and compare it with what is in the West.

[Generalissimus]

Guys, I'm just an engineer specializing in rocket science.
The key was "gas-dynamic rudders". Naturally, there is an understanding of what it is about. How exactly it was implemented on Iskander is as much a mystery to me as it is to all the uninitiated. But there are enough proven methods - choose based on the need, financial resources and ambitions.
Old, Soviet "rudders" with the R-7, for example, I was picking with my fingernail while still a student in the laboratory. A classmate, I remember, pinched his finger ..

[Generalissimus]

If there was a photo with the right angle, on which Iskander’s propulsion system would be visible, it would be possible to quite confidently exclude some options for the implementation of the GUVT, but such photos, probably, are not. However, I did not look.

[Generalissimus]

Although here.

The mechanization is clearly visible: 4 control surfaces. The control system gives an impulse, the steering wheel rotates at the required angle in the gas stream.
Each of the surfaces can rotate independently of the others.
A fairly old and well-established technology, with fairly serious traction losses in certain modes. However, if this is an obvious disadvantage for a space launch vehicle, this can be a big plus for a combat missile - a change in traction, as the possibility of changing speed in different parts of the trajectory, or if necessary ..
They also write that Iskander has aerodynamic rudders. Since the "plumage", as I see it, is static, it means that there are protruding surfaces covered up to the required speed (effective for aerodynamic surfaces) under the dropped shells.

[Generalissimus]

The mechanization is clearly visible: 4 control surfaces.

Not stabilizers, of course, but there, on the "ring" of the nozzle 4 devices .. These are they.

[voyaka uh]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Echelon]

Maneuvering occurs due to the control of the thrust vector. Gas-dynamic control of the thrust vector on Iskander can be implemented (as I understand from available sources of information and common sense) by the method of asymmetric feed of the control flow into the nozzle.
That, in fact, is the whole "secret" of the absence of control surfaces, thrusters and so on in the photograph. The entire "control mechanism" of the thrust vector is actually inside the nozzle and is achieved due to the off-axis outflow of the jet and some other effects.

It was implemented at the Oka in the late 70s.

[brn521]

Quote: voyaka uh

It is not clear to me how a rocket of this form can maneuver.

They write, there are rudders. http://dokwar.ru/publ/vooruzhenie/pvo_i_rvsn/raketnyj_kompleks_quot_iskander_quo
t / 16-1-0-82:
"The flight trajectory is not ballistic, difficult to predict for the enemy. The missile is controlled throughout the entire flight path. At the initial stage, by gas-dynamic rudders, then, after accelerating, by aerodynamic ones."

[Mera joota]

Quote: brn521

then, after gaining speed, - aerodynamic. "

Yeah, at altitudes from 10 to 50 km. aerodynamic rudders?

[Generalissimus]

What is strange about these heights? Here is a regular IL-86 at an altitude of 10 km flies - and is controlled aerodynamically .. =)) And the Mig-31 - and on the 20 km is controlled by these same rudders.
And the lattice rudders (as on the Iskanders) - they, generally speaking, from space came a direct road. They generally planned to equip ships and descent capsules for control in the upper atmosphere and for descent.
And now they are used on strategic and tactical missiles.

[Mera joota]

Quote: Generalissimus

What is strange about these heights? Here’s the usual IL-86 at a height of 10 km flies - and is controlled aerodynamically .. =)) And the Mig-31 - and 20 km is controlled by these same rudders. And the lattice rudders (as on the Iskander) - they, generally speaking, came from space direct dear. They generally planned to equip ships and descent capsules for control in the upper atmosphere and for descent. And now they are used on strategic and tactical missiles.

With a 50G overload, maneuver with trellised rudders at a height of 10-20km? Not at all serious.

[Echelon]

What you call a difficult-to-predict trajectory is called yaw and pitch)))

[Old26]

Quote: Vadim237

Patriot will not protect against Iskanders, but the THHAD missile defense system is likely to be able, Germany decided to purchase this complex.

even if you really want the Patriot missile defense system, it is not designed to intercept operational-tactical missiles. Only so tactical. The SCADES in the first Gulf War were intercepted by the Patriots simply because there were no other interception systems.

Quote: Mera Joota

It didn’t miss, and the warhead of the missile launcher could not always disable the warhead of the Scud. Different things. Therefore, the Americans relied on the principle of hit-to-kill and successfully implemented it.

The first version of the Patriot was not "sharpened" at all to intercept ballistic targets. Mostly aerodynamic. And then they had to face tactical, and operational-tactical missiles

Quote: Now we are free

Mdaaa, that the "Patriots" did not help the Saudis very much against the old antediluvian "Tochka-U" in the hands of the "Highly qualified" Houthis ... What to say about "Iskander-M"?

Stop repeating the media nonsense. RK calculations were highly qualified without all the "quotes".
And how could the complexes help? After all, it is absolutely unknown where the complexes were and where the shooting was from ??

Quote: Rurikovich

In the case of this air defense system, the defense is weaker than the attack! And even if our S-300 family is constantly being improved, the same cannot be said about the Patriot. Yesterday...

The Patriot system is being improved in the same way as all other air defense systems (the S-300 is not a criterion, others are also being improved). So your score is past the basin

Quote: Generalissimus

They also write that Iskander has aerodynamic rudders. Since the "plumage", as I see it, is static, it means that there are protruding surfaces covered up to the required speed (effective for aerodynamic surfaces) under the dropped shells.

Besides the retractable aerodynamic surfaces, the Iskander also has a retractable cockpit for the pilot ....
Do not post nonsense about retractable aerodynamic surfaces ...

Quote: Generalissimus

As for Iskander, then his engine runs until it hits the target. And his ability to overcome air defense is based on this, in addition to the notorious stealth technologies - on a highly maneuverable movement to the target along a non-ballistic trajectory

Oh well, does it really work before being hit? Wow. In TTX we read that the rocket flies (for example) to the target for 250 seconds, and the engine runs for 75 seconds. And how to understand this, about what works before hitting? RAVE............

[Generalissimus]

Opponents who are aggressive and obviously not ready for discussion always scare me, but they put themselves in advance as if they know everything and everything. It seems to me that such people are hostages of their upbringing and, most often, total incompetence. Therefore, they try in advance by their behavior to convince the opposite. True, it turns out they only occasionally.

But back to the topic.

Oh well, does it really work before being hit? Wow. In TTX we read that the rocket flies (for example) to the target for 250 seconds, and the engine runs for 75 seconds. And how to understand this, about what works before hitting? RAVE...........

If you plunge into different sources of information, up to the company-arbitrariness of the Iskander, then black and white is written everywhere and everywhere: (By Iskander-M)

1. ... The missile is a single-stage, has a single-nozzle engine, non-ballistic and controlled over the entire flight path through aerodynamic и gas dynamic steering wheels.

2. ... immediately after the start and directly when approaching the target, the missile performs intensive maneuvering.

Explain to me how the product will conduct intensive maneuvering when approaching a target with the engine turned off? Aerodynamic wheels intensive maneuvering without engine thrust will not.

But such behavior of Iskander is his signature style.

And here is another excerpt from Iskander’s description:

Iskander-M - the main option for the Russian army - is significantly more complex than Iskander-E, exported. Less noticeable, more maneuvering at launch and at the end of the flight. In addition, it has not just an inertial guidance system, like Iskander-E, but a combined one, including radio correction, GPS, GLONASS, laser and optical homing in the final section. It is controlled by trellised rudders. The warhead does not separate in principle, as the housing serves to create a lifting force in the final section.

http://expert.ru/2014/01/27/neulovimyij-raketnyij-mstitel/

Do you see lattice rudders in the photo? Not? So do I.
Conclusion: the rudders extend during the flight. What made you so emotionally angry?

Besides the retractable aerodynamic surfaces, the Iskander also has a retractable cockpit for the pilot ....
Do not post nonsense about retractable aerodynamic surfaces ...

So why is this defiant epistolary attack?

Lattice rudders - this is the aerodynamic control.

You would throw less at people, and think more about your own thought processes. OK? You will benefit.

As for zeroing traction, Iskander-E, the export version, suffers from this fact. He really flies in a "throw" way after 15 km of the initial section.
Iskander-M, on the other hand, is not a ballistic, but an AER ballistic scheme, and - and this is the main thing - in the adopted rocketeers classification. In the Air Force (according to their classification), an aeroballistic missile really flies toward the target horizontally, but at the final stage it nullifies the thrust and flies like a ballistic missile.
Iskander-M in the vertical plane uses ricocheting trajectories and intensively maneuvers along the course, with 20-30 g overloads.

[Vlad5307]

Quote: Mera Joota

Kindergarten ... What makes everyone think that the Iskander is afraid in the West? 500 kg warhead capable of relatively accurately hit when launched from a distance of 500 km.

Here is your reasoning is childish babble! Yes, if the "Iskander" were as bad as you see it, then the "partners" would not have squealed only at one statement that they would be placed in Kaliningrad! And let them shove their "patriots" into ... nnu you understand where! What works well for them is PR campaigns to promote their shit to fellow "democratizers"! Although we also have such figures, especially in the social sphere - they learn the worst from the "partners", or maybe they are their veiled agents ?!

[Old26]

Quote: VP

There is little difference in shooting down a low-speed UAV that even the Wasp will take, the main thing is to detect a missile flying at a speed of over 7,5 thousand km / h. going along a quasi-ballistic (and therefore not calculable) trajectory.

What kind of nonsense? Speeds of 7,5 km / s are speeds INTERCONTINENTALrather than an operational tactical missile. The Patriot was never meant to be destroyed, not only intercontinental, but even tactical missile. Only tactical.
The Iskander's speed is 2,1 km / s. But even for her, the "Patriot" is not enough, since the maximum target speed for him is 1,6-1,8 km / s

[Generalissimus]

You would read a little about what you are struggling with.
7.5 thousand km was written to you \hour This is just 2.1 km \ s ..

So what are you arguing with, such an impulse? =)

[Cat man null]

Quote: Generalissimus

You would read a little about what you are struggling with.
They wrote you 7.5 thousand km \ hour. This is just 2.1 km \ s ..

So what are you arguing with, such an impulse? =)

+100000 ... and cast into granite

[Old26]

Quote: Generalissimus

1. ... The missile is a single-stage one, has a single-nozzle engine, is non-ballistic and is controlled along the entire flight path using aerodynamic and gas-dynamic rudders.

Exactly. And how can it be controlled by gas-dynamic rudders with an engine operating time of approximately 70 seconds and a flight time of 4 minutes (approximately 240 seconds)? Do not tell me how?

Quote: Generalissimus

Immediately after the launch and immediately upon approaching the target, the rocket performs intensive maneuvering.

After the start, intensive maneuvering is technically possible, of course, but on the approach? The body "falls", even if we take into account that this body is controlled by aerodynamic rudders, but the language does not turn to call this intensive maneuvering ...

Quote: Generalissimus

Explain to me how the product will conduct intensive maneuvering when approaching a target with the engine turned off? Aerodynamic wheels intensive maneuvering without engine thrust will not.

Exactly. How can the engine work at the end of a 4-minute flight if the engine runs a little more than a minute?

Quote: Generalissimus

Do you see lattice rudders in the photo? No? Me too. Conclusion: the rudders extend during the flight. What made you so emotionally angry?

None of the existing missiles EXISTED retractable lattice rudders. They were "pressed" against the body, were reclining, but never ADVANCED

[alstr]

Regarding the engine running time.
And it never occurred to anyone that the engine could operate in a pulsed mode? In the simplest version - does the engine work only at the start and at the end of the trajectory?

[Sivan]

Really. For a long time there are two-time solid propellant solid propellant solid propellant rocket motors Here's what I found:

Quote: http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/33/page37.html

One of the promising technical solutions could be the creation of solid-state solid-propellant solid-propellant rocket motors. The use of such engines will increase the launch range of the missiles, increase their speed and maneuverability at the end of the flight, etc.
Work related to the creation of such engines was started in the United States back in the 1960s. The most effective option, ensuring the minimum mass of the structure, was recognized as a solid propellant rocket motor, the charge of which is divided into separate sections by heat shields. The implementation of such a design made it possible in the late 1960s to create a two-time solid propellant solid propellant rocket for the SRAM guided missile.

Domestic scientists have developed more advanced ways to control the operation of solid propellant rocket motors. This article will be interesting to read: http://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/opyt-razrabotki-kombinirovannogo-rdtt-mnogokrat
nogo-vklyucheniya

[Old26]

Quote: Generalissimus

That’s why this defiant epistolary lunge? Lattice rudders - this is the aerodynamic control.

Than? Delirium about retractable lattice rudders. Iskander has aerodynamic surfaces - 4 planes, but none, incl. and retractable lattice rudders. These four planes are aerodynamic surfaces ...

Quote: Generalissimus

Iskander-M, on the other hand, is not a ballistic, but an AER ballistic scheme, and - and this is the main thing - in the classification adopted by rocket launchers. In the Air Force (according to their classification), an aeroballistic missile really flies toward the target horizontally, but at the final stage it nullifies the thrust and flies like a ballistic missile.

Missile launchers have never had such a classification - "AEROBALLISTIC" rocket. This is from the Air Force rocket classification. This is how air-to-ground ballistic missiles were classified. The flight profile could be different. What you described is one of the options. According to another version, after a horizontal flight, the rocket made a hill, 10-20 km up and dived at the target ...

Quote: Generalissimus

You would throw less at people, and think more about your own thought processes.

You know, you don’t have to worry about my thought processes. At least I try not to write frank nonsense or use only the data from Wiki or the media as arguments. Frets? As they say, you should not say what I need to do and I will not say where you should go ...

Quote: Generalissimus

They wrote you 7.5 thousand km \ hour. This is just 2.1 km \ s ..

Here I apologize. All the time they talked about speeds in km / s (or m / s) and here in km / h

[absurdity]

The Iskander also has retractable rudders, and special valves that "smooth" the rocket body to a lesser radio signature. This is a very complex complex, and there, in a few minutes of flight with a rocket, the most complex transformations take place, and therefore it is considered an advanced one. Look for a video about the complex, something like that walked along the Star ...

[Anchonsha]

We need to develop our defense industry constantly in search of weapons that would be less costly, but more effective. I think that the big future lies with electronic radar systems and hyper-moving objects. True, scientific research also requires huge funds, but the results of the work of scientists here should be recouped.

[gregor6549]

To begin with, the latest modifications of the Patriot PAC-3 were developed taking into account the technologies used in the C300, and the C300 can intercept targets like Iskander missiles. Moreover, the United States and Israel are now developing new missile defense systems, which will have higher compared to Patriot TTX

[voyaka uh]

Israel is currently undergoing tests
David Sling system. She is imprisoned for intercepting BR
short range 100-500 km, flying stately,
on the middle section of the trajectory. Direct hit interception -
kinetic kick.
David’s sling was not intended to intercept Iskander,
and to intercept Iranian BR caliber 300 (approximately) mm supplied
Iranians to Lebanon to organize Hezbollah.
ABM missiles are used to intercept larger Scud missiles
Hets.
pictured: David's sling in flight

[Volga Cossack]

the article directly warmed the soul - thanks!

[rBo3qb]

Quote: sneg6680

But Yeltsin drank not only Russia but also other countries

about the dead either good or nothing (but this M&A deserves more)

[Persifal]

I have already seen many articles about Patriot. They write that it is worse than the S-300, then it is inferior to the S-400, then Iskander will tear it. Of course all this is true. Only such a comparison does not make sense. I am also surprised by our advertising of different systems, with the postscript "It has no analogues in the world." All this is a hat-roll. Seriously though, I do not doubt the capabilities of our weapons. But there is a "But" everywhere. Here, for example, the SM-3 rocket https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM-3
Our promising "unparalleled" system S-500, which "Possibly" will shoot down even satellites, has lagged behind SM-3 years by 15 years. You shouldn't forget about that either. As they say, "The enemy does not sleep."
I believe that our systems should not be compared with Patriot.

[Sivan]

I agree with you that hatred is harmful, and it is necessary to compare not with Patriot, but, for example, with THAAD.

However, I am not at all sure that the S-500 is technically inferior to the SM-3. Your ability to evaluate the performance characteristics of classified systems (telepathically?) Deserves respect

[Persifal]

I rely only on publicly available facts. SM-3 in the early 2000s already shot down satellites and ballistic missile warheads. This missile is very small in mass, about a ton or less. The claimed range of 500 km in range and height of 250. And you have to believe in such performance characteristics since the rocket showed them in practice. The missile is clearly very high-tech. For example, 3 missiles are possessed by 3 units all over the world. According to the performance characteristics, it is more than 300 times superior to the S-30 missiles, while it is 40-12% lighter (as a result, less). But the price of $ 24-XNUMX million is simply unrealistic.
On the other hand, our S-500 will not be adopted soon. In something it will be better. I think at least in the probability of warheads being hit. But if you sit on the declared performance characteristics, then the S-500 approximately corresponds to systems with SM-3 missiles. The difference is only in the abyss, at 15, between these systems ...

[moroz656]

I completely agree with you! Most likely the difference will only be in price., But given the progression of the backlog, the same SM3 will not catch up soon .... And I'm not sure that we will again try to catch up with someone., Even after accepting C- 500 for armament.

[romashki74]

"Bulletin of Mordovia", as always, rules !!!

[moroz656]

Who knows a little about weapons ... "Iskander" quality control department - range up to 500 km ... stealth technology, maneuvering in all flight phases., And what is the difference between the "ax" of the blok3 version, I'm not talking about biok4 .... just one - In the same England, there are a lot of them ... with a range of 1600 km. And who came up with the idea that our complexes see and destroy low-flying, maneuvering targets, and foreign ones do not? Although maybe not all ... but we have only 2 divisions -, and the air defense system in Europe is more than.


and,