Military Review

Diplomatic deadlock. How did Poland spite the USSR to freeze its ears?

87
Diplomatic deadlock. How did Poland spite the USSR to freeze its ears?



Acknowledging the perfidy of the British, we must not forget about the Polish contribution to the breakdown of negotiations

Seventy-six years ago, on August 12, 1939, in Moscow, negotiations began on the military missions of the USSR, Great Britain and France.

The head of the French delegation, General Jean Dumenc, had the authority only to negotiate, but not to sign the agreement.

Admiral P.Drax, who headed the British delegation, arrived in the Soviet capital without any authority, but with a clear directive from British Foreign Secretary E. Halifax “to pull the negotiations as long as possible.”

London did not negotiate with the aim of concluding a military agreement, but in order to sow illusions in the minds of Soviet leaders and distract them from thoughts about a possible agreement with Germany.

But, stating the treachery of the British, we should not forget about the Polish contribution to the disruption of the tripartite negotiations of military missions. Moreover, it is quite comparable with the British.

Already during the first meetings, the head of the Soviet delegation, K. Voroshilov, raised the question of missing parts of the Red Army through Poland, designating this problem as cardinal.
The French Foreign Ministry agreed with such a statement of the question, recognizing in a note addressed to the Prime Minister of France E. Daladier the Kremlin’s demands are logical and legitimate.

It said that if the issue of the passage of the Paint Army through Polish territory was not positively resolved, the military negotiations would be pointless: "It is hardly possible to oppose this statement, which brings us to the very essence of the issue."

However, even realizing that the position of the USSR was correct, honest and constructive, the French followed the British in the negotiations. This was later recognized by A. Bofre, a member of the French delegation.

Evaluating the Soviet proposals, he remarked: "It is difficult to be more specific and clearer ... The contrast between this program ... and the vague abstractions of the French-English platform is amazing and shows the chasm that separated the two concepts ... Soviet arguments were weightier ... Our position remained fake ..."

If the position of the British and French was false, then the Polish turned out to be suicidal. Even in August, 1939, when the German armies stood ready at the borders of the Second Polish Commonwealth, her government flatly refused to accept military assistance from the Soviet Union.

Moreover, as far back as April, the pro-German-oriented head of the Polish foreign ministry, Y. Beck, brought Berlin to the notice that "Poland will never allow any soldier of Soviet Russia to enter its territory."

The steadfast stance of Warsaw added Polish to the British impasse. In a conversation with French Foreign Minister Jean Bonnet, Polish Ambassador to France J. Lukasiewicz admitted that “Beck will never allow Russian troops to occupy the territories that we took from them in 1921 year”.

Bonne was well aware that it was not about “occupying” or seizing part of Polish territory by the Red Army. In a telegram sent to the French embassy in Warsaw, he demanded that French Ambassador L. Noel “clarify” with the Poles “how they are going to organize armed resistance in the event of possible German aggression without the help of the Russians. In view of our commitments, we have every right to receive an exhaustive answer to this question. ”

19 August Beck gave Noel not an exhaustive, but a discouraging answer. The narcissist Pole did not burden himself with revealing the secrets of "how" the Polish army intends to fight the Wehrmacht. On the other hand, he named the reason for the refusal to the Red Army units in the passage through the territory of Poland: "This is for us a matter of principle, we do not have a military agreement with the USSR and we don’t want to have it."

Equally important was the Marshal of Poland E.Rydz-Smigly, who publicly declared: "Regardless of the consequences, not a single inch of Polish territory will ever be allowed to be occupied by Russian troops."

Surprisingly, but a fact: talking to official Paris in this style, Polish diplomats, politicians and the military did not lose confidence that in the event of German aggression, the French would literally rush to defend them ...

In the correspondence between themselves, the gentry also made fun of the participants in the tripartite talks. 18 August Lukasevich shared his joy with Beck: because of the stubborn position of Warsaw in Moscow "there are formal meetings, empty and inconsequential."

However, he laughs best who laughs last and without consequences. For the Poles, they came within a few days ...
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/science-tech/2015/08/15/istoriya-khkh-veka/762946-diplomaticheskii-tupik-kak-polsha-nazlo-sssr-otmor
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  1. sohosha
    sohosha 30 August 2015 01: 25 New
    +7
    Hello Europe, wake up, ask those who survived 1939, there are few of them left. Please do not step on your rake.
    1. Izotovp
      Izotovp 30 August 2015 02: 35 New
      +12
      They will not wake up, and as before, every hundred years, they climb to us for a pee ... gingerbread in the sense.
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 30 August 2015 13: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: sohosha
      Hello Europe, wake up, ask those who survived 1939, there are few of them left. Please do not step on your rake.


      The subscriber is temporarily unavailable, drunk, stoned or under anesthesia.
    3. Vend
      Vend 30 August 2015 18: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: sohosha
      Hello Europe, wake up, ask those who survived 1939, there are few of them left. Please do not step on your rake.

      Well, life does not teach Poles. In 39 they were showing off hoping for France, now they are showing off hoping for the USA. The result will be deplorable for the Poles. History will be repeated until Poland draws the right conclusions and actions.
      1. Altona
        Altona 30 August 2015 22: 12 New
        +6
        Quote: Wend
        Well, life does not teach Poles. In 39 they were showing off hoping for France, now they are showing off hoping for the USA. The result will be deplorable for the Poles. History will be repeated until Poland draws the right conclusions and actions.

        ----------------------
        This applies to all Slavs ... All-Poles, Czechs, Serbs, on the whole stepped on this rake ... Nobody understands, or pretends not to, that the main goal was to pit Germany and Russia in direct confrontation, and the Anglo-Saxons stand over the battle and dictate their conditions to the bloodless world ... In those years there was still the British Empire, over which the sun did not set and which, together with the French (and they were also the colonial empire), gave false guarantees to the European Limitrophs ... Moreover, this tactic not changed so far and many "chalk the coevropeans, so to say, are still looking into the rotten teeth of the Anglo-Saxon “democracy”, which will gladly shove them into the next adventure under the talk of “European unity” ...
        1. ruru
          ruru 30 August 2015 23: 12 New
          -5
          Quote: Altona
          Nobody understands, or pretends to not understand, that the main goal was to pit Germany and Russia in direct confrontation

          Do not fantasize. The USSR came under the hand in passing, one might say. Stalin pulled him there. For the sake of saving himself, beloved.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 30 August 2015 23: 19 New
            +4
            Quote: ruru
            Do not fantasize. The USSR came under the hand in passing, one might say. Stalin pulled him there. For the sake of saving yourself, beloved

            Ouch, ёёё .. kaaak interesting .. and justify?
            1. ruru
              ruru 30 August 2015 23: 24 New
              -4
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              kaaak interesting .. and justify?

              What?
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 30 August 2015 23: 33 New
                +1
                Quote: ruru
                What?

                Quote: ruru
                Do not fantasize. The USSR came under the hand in passing, one might say. Stalin pulled him there. For the sake of saving yourself, beloved

                Duc .. your words are highlighted in red .. extremely original interpretation belay

                Just don’t say that it’s obvious, and don’t suggest “search for yourself,” lana? wink
                1. ruru
                  ruru 31 August 2015 00: 04 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  Just don’t say that it’s obvious, and don’t suggest “search for yourself,” lana?

                  But it’s obvious. What is there to look for?
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 31 August 2015 00: 45 New
                    +3
                    Quote: ruru
                    At first, no one was interested in the USSR at all ... The Germans seriously became interested in them only after the failure of the Hess mission.

                    That is, in May 1941, right? And right there -

                    Quote: ruru
                    The Germans invited Stalin and his commissars to clean up for Sev. Dvina and the Volga. This was the end of the war for the Bolsheviks.

                    Having given up practically all industrial areas, ports in the Baltic, both capitals, a lot of other things ... is this some kind of enchanting arctic fox ... is it suicide for the state, well, or what I don’t understand? belay

                    Quote: ruru
                    Stalin at first did not accept anyone's offer at all.

                    Note - it was after mid-May 1941 ..

                    Quote: ruru
                    And decided to play his game

                    I thought and thought .. and decided .. And in July of the same 1941, Germany attacked the USSR .. that is, the decision-making process (for example, “Barbarossa” was developed in advance, “just in case”), the redeployment of troops and other, and other - borrowed from Germany for less than two months ?? belay

                    Yes, it doesn’t happen like that .. it simply doesn’t work according to the chronology ..

                    Can you indicate the source of this version worthy of trust?
                2. Zoldat_A
                  Zoldat_A 31 August 2015 00: 22 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  Quote: ruru
                  What?

                  Quote: ruru
                  Do not fantasize. The USSR came under the hand in passing, one might say. Stalin pulled him there. For the sake of saving yourself, beloved

                  Duc .. your words are highlighted in red .. extremely original interpretation belay

                  Just don’t say that it’s obvious, and don’t suggest “search for yourself,” lana? wink

                  As I understand it, the settler self-destructed. Liberalists' favorite tactic is to blurt out some nonsense and watch as the opponent tries to prove that he is not a camel. ruruApparently, I am not aware that Stalin did not drag anyone in anywhere. AND the ears of World War II do not grow from Stalin, but from the Munich agreement of 1938. Well, dear Cat man null, one can’t expect anything else from shkolota Sorosovsky spill. What they wrote to them in the textbooks from the West in the 90s, they reiterate, like parrots - "Stalin - the executioner, Lenin - the bloodsucker, the USSR - the prison of the peoples." Better all these ruru in Odnoklassniki, and didn’t get smartif history books really didn’t learn to read ....
                  1. ruru
                    ruru 31 August 2015 00: 37 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Zoldat_A
                    And the ears of World War II do not grow from Stalin

                    And who wrote about the fact that Stalin unleashed 2MB? Do you have trouble understanding what is written?
                    Quote: Zoldat_A
                    then Stalin didn’t drag anyone anywhere

                    Really?
                    Quote: Zoldat_A
                    one cannot expect anything else from the shkolota of the Sorosovsky spill.

                    You won’t get anything clever from your comrades. They even have many millions of victims among the population for nothing. No remorse or remorse. So it was NECESSARY. And that’s all. People for them are that trash. "Building material of communism."
                    1. vasileva_
                      vasileva_ 31 August 2015 01: 38 New
                      +1
                      Our losses are no more than the German losses. First study the documents (primary sources), and the crow can croak
                      1. shooter cc
                        shooter cc 31 August 2015 02: 02 New
                        -4
                        Quote: vasileva_
                        Our losses are no more than the German losses. First study the documents (primary sources), and the crow can croak

                        Not more? Well, how to say, about five times more, about
                      2. Chiropractor
                        Chiropractor 1 September 2015 11: 46 New
                        +1
                        if we compare the losses of the German army - the Wehrmacht and the General losses of the USSR - the Red Army and the civilian population, then yes, 5 times more than the loss of the USSR USSR did not deal with genocide of liberated peoples

                        and for military losses - they are comparable if we take into account the losses of the fascist coalition on the Eastern Front (Germans, Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, French) and compare with the losses of the Red Army
                3. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 31 August 2015 01: 13 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Zoldat_A
                  It would be better if all these ruru would sit in Odnoklassniki, and wouldn’t be clever if history books really didn’t learn to read ....

                  No, why ... he has a funny version, I tried to spread it above the vectors there ... I don’t know, it turned out, al no ..

                  But the fact that people somehow managed (after a considerable time) to explain their entire explanation, long, to

                  Quote: ruru
                  But it’s obvious. What is there to look for?

                  - this suggests. Bad Because, for example, I don’t know how request
                  1. Zoldat_A
                    Zoldat_A 31 August 2015 09: 21 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Cat Man Null

                    But the fact that people somehow managed (after a considerable time) to explain their entire explanation, long, to

                    Quote: ruru
                    But it’s obvious. What is there to look for?

                    - this suggests. Bad Because, for example, I don’t know how request

                    Watch any discussion on TV with the participation of liberals - they have a traditional argument - "this is obvious."

                    In this connection, I repeat, but it is painfully cool about liberalistic argumentation -

                    Jews choose a new rabbi. Abram stands up:
                    - We all have long known Rabinovich as an honest person, I propose to choose him!
                    Jews (in chorus):
                    - Yes, let's choose Rabinovich!
                    Yitzchak rises:
                    “Now you want to choose Rabinovich the rabbi, and, by the way, his daughter is a prostitute!” Somehow it’s not good!
                    Jews (in chorus):
                    - Not good!
                    Rabinovich gets up:
                    - Well, how so! You all know me from childhood! I have lived all my life in the community! And I have three sons and never had a daughter!
                    Jews (in chorus):
                    - Indeed, how so?
                    Yitzhak (shrugging):
                    - I expressed my opinion, but you think ...
                    1. Aqela
                      Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 15 New
                      -1
                      Yeah. In the same vein and an anecdote about the spoons.
                      "Spoons were found. But a bad sediment remained ..." request
                      This joke is all the more suitable because it very well reflects the main method of conducting an ideological war against Russia and the USSR. Those. a vile stuffing is done, not backed up by anything, 100% false, and our ancestors, and now we are forced instead to deal with the refutation of slander. And every time "I expressed my opinion, but you think ..." и "Spoons were found, but a bad sediment remained ..."
    4. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 31 August 2015 00: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: Wend
      At 39 they were showing off hoping for France, now they are showing off hoping for the USA.The result will be deplorable for the Poles. History will be repeated until Poland draws the right conclusions and deeds.

      The show of the 39th cost Poland 6 lives. How much will the next one cost?

      Do they, the Poles, realize that America’s presence in Poland does not increase their security, but only introduces Poland into the target designation of Russian missiles? And that the first retaliatory strike will not be in Texas, but in Poland with the comrades where the NATO troops are stationed (read - USA)?
  2. EGOrkka
    EGOrkka 1 September 2015 10: 09 New
    0
    The successors of the Paraguayans cannot be winners!
  • Igor K
    Igor K 30 August 2015 03: 47 New
    +7
    The Poles historical memory during the period of the false Dmitry froze and objective reality ceased to exist a priori.
    Europe is being systematically prepared for destruction by the Muslim world while turning a movie about terrible Russia, but to see the truth, every nation is worthy of the government that has it, its time is running out.
    1. bayard
      bayard 30 August 2015 13: 47 New
      +14
      The European Caliphate is not a new plan, but a long-running program, though it has received noticeable acceleration in recent days. While preparing the war between Europe and Russia, the Americans are fully aware that the Jews will not pull, even in conjunction with the SGA expeditionary forces - the human material of their armed forces is worthless, there is no technical superiority, there is simply no one to fight. Where to get motivated and stubborn warriors? And at the same time a lot and so do not mind? ... Well, of course, in the Middle East and Africa - yes, for European citizenship, but under psychotropics ... Here's the only trouble - they don’t know how to fight with Western weapons - it is painfully difficult and unreliable in real combat conditions. But many of them are familiar with the Soviet, and not only AK-47. What do the apostles of democracy do? Where can I get so many Russian weapons against Russians? ... Rumors have been heard recently that Saudi Arabia now has a soul in Russia, invests, orders nuclear plants ... It's good, trading is really better than fighting ... but among Religious reports slipped through the message that the Saudis are very interested in purchasing old Soviet armored vehicles and other weapons from storage bases, well, in very large volumes. ISIS is of course a terrible beast, but why should the father of children be afraid? The deal, as they say, did not go through, and it pleases, but the question remains - where do they get so many Soviet weapons when they have American stuff? Is it not for the European Caliphate? Isn't it against us? ... And the Negroes and Arabs go to Europe face-fed, well-fed, they didn’t resemble the poor fellow from the war ... It’s clear that the “exceptional” cases are bad ...
  • Support
    Support 30 August 2015 04: 05 New
    +4
    Each nation has a choice (as well as a single person). The choice determines the further Existence, Life, Peace, Culture, etc. All the geyropa chose her own. And there was a choice. Therefore, I do not feel sorry for them, even waiting for when they will collapse. He will not particularly affect our Country. We made our choice a long time ago, even our ancestors, and we did not depart much from it. We will stand. They are not.
  • Coboklo
    Coboklo 30 August 2015 05: 46 New
    +7
    Since the time of Troubles, psheks sincerely and with hatred even belong to the Russian spirit.
    Jealousy of a lost empire does not allow them to think. Bastards, let them choke with anger, eating their filthy apples.
  • lwxx
    lwxx 30 August 2015 06: 17 New
    +14
    The author forgot to point out that Poland itself planned together with Germany to start a war against the USSR. But the Germans decided differently.
    1. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 30 August 2015 09: 20 New
      +2
      The Poles really want to step on the same rake that they had before the 1939 year. Europe will merge them as before.
    2. vasileva_
      vasileva_ 31 August 2015 01: 40 New
      0
      But we remember it well.
    3. shooter cc
      shooter cc 31 August 2015 02: 04 New
      -3
      Quote: lwxx
      The author forgot to point out that Poland itself planned together with Germany to start a war against the USSR. But the Germans decided differently.

      Bullshit all this, not even funny, just crazy crazy
    4. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 31 August 2015 09: 20 New
      +1
      Poland itself planned to start a war against the USSR together with Germany
      A fool does not need a knife. You’ll lie to him from three boxes - and do what you like with him.
      However, the one who laughs last and without consequences laughs well.
      And it’s possible: “Who laughs well, he laughs for the last time” am
  • Vadim12
    Vadim12 30 August 2015 07: 11 New
    +3
    Eat apples in a pan. And continue to quietly hate everything Russian. Perhaps bend over as soon as possible.
  • Sergey Vladimirovich
    Sergey Vladimirovich 30 August 2015 08: 42 New
    +10
    They made the choice themselves ... My deceased grandfather quietly hated the film "Four Tankmen and a Dog", psheks there are shown such brave heroes. In fact, according to grandfather's stories, those warriors were still - cowardly and cunning ... e. Mostly followed the Red Army, collected trophies (looting), carried out some cleansing of the liberated territory. That's all their heroism - to get chestnuts out of the fire with the wrong hands. What "like" the most - also open their mouths! They would be silent "in a rag" and "did not shine."
    1. vasileva_
      vasileva_ 31 August 2015 01: 41 New
      +1
      My grandfather also hated this movie.
  • Wayna qhapaq
    Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 08: 43 New
    +6
    Judge not lest ye be judged. Do not equate all Poles under one comb. It is no secret that the Polish elite has always positioned itself as descendants of the Sarmatians, not Slavs. The descendants of the Slavs were considered to be B.lo (peasants). This situation still persists. Why is the Polish elite so crying over Katyn - the nobility, the Polish elite, are buried there. Moreover, ordinary Poles perished many times more at the hands of the Wehrmacht. The situation is reminiscent of our 19th-century nobility, speaking French, despising the common Russian people. Simple Poles are not bad guys, much better than Ukrainians.
    1. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 30 August 2015 09: 40 New
      +14
      Quote: Wayna Qhapaq
      . Do not equate all Poles under one comb.

      And under what to equal them? When Germany attacked Poland, the Polish government fled to the UK before the Wehrmacht captured 40% of Poland. Do not forget that when Stalin, after the "Western Campaign" returned to Lithuania the territory taken by Poland after the First World War, the Polish government in exile declared war on the USSR. In December 1941, the Soviet government begins to form the Polish army, most often they like to mention that the Poles were brought to mobilization points from prisons and camps, forgetting to mention that it was the Polish government in exile from London that declared war on the USSR. So, should we dissolve the officers and soldiers of the “warring” state against the USSR? The Poles sat out safely, refusing to go into battle against the invaders of their country until September 1942, and in the midst of the Battle of Stalingrad with their families (here it is true to say "I doubt this figure, however), in the amount of 300 000 people with weapons are sent to Iran, then they they are transported to Egypt, where they also sat safely in the rear during the “battle of Alamein.” Not a single Pole from this army wanted to take part in the battle. Insignificant forces of the Polish Army under the command of the “rebellious” remain in the USSR (in other words At that: General Ludwig Svobody, who is rooting for his occupied homeland, in such an amount that he is simply not able to conduct any kind of fighting, then Russian soldiers are sent to the Polish Army in whose form it is written that his grandmother was Polish. "Four tankers and a dog" the tank commander is Polish, and in the book he is Russian, and the mechanic of the tank is Georgians, as was actually the case. The Polish army was Russian at 50%. The Poles themselves successfully sat out the war, waiting for others to liberate it. It should also be remembered that Poland was the only state where the Craiova Army in 1945 killed the Soviet hospital.
      1. Ivan Ivanych
        Ivan Ivanych 30 August 2015 13: 53 New
        0
        Can I have a link about the declaration of war by the Polish government against the USSR? This case must be published.
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 30 August 2015 15: 46 New
          +2
          Poles twice in the 20th century declared war on the SOVIET UNION, the first time when negotiations were held on the demarcation, the second when the SOVIET UNION bought and transferred Vilnus to the Lithuanians. By the way, the Finns declared war four times to the SOVIET UNION.
        2. Captain nemo
          Captain nemo 30 August 2015 16: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Ivan Ivanovich
          Can I have a link about the declaration of war by the Polish government against the USSR? This case must be published.

          No, it’s impossible, although it was published in the Western press of November 1939, it wasn’t in the USSR, but without wide publicity the government of the USSR took measures of a corresponding nature, as a country in a war with Poland. Look among these publications of that period of the Western or Baltic press, maybe you will find the real reason for declaring war on Poland in the USSR, and whether they lie that only from one Vilnius region, completely forgetting about Western Belorussia, and Galicia.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Penetrator
        Penetrator 30 August 2015 14: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: shasherin.pavel

        In the USSR, insignificant forces of the Polish Army under the command of the "rebellious" (in other words: rooting for their occupied homeland) general remain Ludwig Freedom

        In fact, Ludwig Freedom is a Czech, commander of the 1st Czechoslovak Army Corps. And the commander of the 1st Polish Army, on the basis of which the Polish Army was subsequently formed, was Lieutenant General Sigmunt Burling.
      3. bistrov.
        bistrov. 30 August 2015 18: 32 New
        +5
        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        in the amount of 300 people with weapons sent to Iran

        I don’t know where you got these numbers: in 1942, 33 thousand Poles were transported to Iran as part of 2 divisions and several separate units under the general command of General Anders and 11 thousand civilians. Subsequently, about 44 thousand more. A total of 78 thousand Polish troops and 38 thousand civilians, although these figures are doubtful. And Ludwig Svoboda, this from another opera, is Czechoslovakia, and the first Polish army, who fought on the side of the USSR, was commanded by Sigmund Burling. Indeed, there were complaints about the fighting ability of the Poles. They fought from under the stick and only in the second echelons. Here you are right.
      4. sq
        sq 30 August 2015 19: 22 New
        +2
        It should be added that in 1944 in the western regions of Belarus they were drafted into the Red Army, and the Polish Army was recruited and did not ask if the Poles were relatives or not
      5. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 31 August 2015 13: 10 New
        0
        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        General Ludwig of Liberty

        You messed up a bit. Not a general, but a colonel. And there was no Freedom Pole, he commanded first the Czech battalion formed in Buzuluk by 1943, then the brigade deployed from this battalion, after it was defeated in the spring of 1943, then the 1st Czechoslovak Corps, formed on the basis of the brigade.
        And after desertion, otherwise it’s not to be called, the Polish “Aders Army” formed in the USSR, in May 1943, the formation of 1 Polish infantry division named after Tadeusz Kosciuszko under the command of Colonel Sigmund Burling began.
        I, too, got a little confused - yet Freedom was originally not a colonel, but a lieutenant colonel.
      6. Aqela
        Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 23 New
        -1
        Thanks for the detailed answer. I myself wanted to express myself in the same spirit, but you brought additional facts that were previously unknown to me. I give you a plus and thank you for the good remark. good hi
    2. vasileva_
      vasileva_ 31 August 2015 01: 42 New
      0
      Get off with your elite. There the people are the same as in Ukraine.
  • Basil50
    Basil50 30 August 2015 08: 48 New
    +6
    The Germans were not idiots to trust the Poles at least in something. The Poles voiced so much strange and made it impossible to interpret it sane. It is impossible to imagine the Poles as complete idiots, we just cannot imagine their true interests. Poland of those years asked so many questions and we try to understand the logic of the perfect, well, it’s impossible, in our understanding, to substitute our own country, and with such meanness. Now the Poles identify themselves only with that Poland. What * valor * of the gentlemen deceived them so?
    1. Wayna qhapaq
      Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 09: 01 New
      +5
      Was there real resistance in 1939 during the Polish campaign of the Red Army? Polish society is still divided into gentry and b.dlo. Ordinary Poles in 1939 usually no resistance. During the war, the situation generally resembled the DPRK vs South Korea - the Ludov’s Army against the Home Army. I repeat - do not equate an entire nation under one comb.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 30 August 2015 09: 29 New
        +2
        Poland, the hyena of Europe-W. Churchill .. But he was not talking about the people .. About the government .. And the speech in the article in the comments about the Polish government, and not about the people .. do not escalate ..
        1. Wayna qhapaq
          Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 09: 35 New
          +1

          Why does our elite teach their children in London?
          1. ankir13
            ankir13 30 August 2015 19: 37 New
            0
            Yes, even if they were returned to Poland for training, it’s not fashionable ...
      2. activator
        activator 30 August 2015 09: 57 New
        +5
        Quote: Wayna Qhapaq
        I repeat - do not equate an entire nation under one comb.

        But you equalized the Ukrainians and the two grandfathers went to fight me from the first days, both did not return, and according to our stories in the east of Ukraine, no one met Germans with bread and salt, at any command of the heart (I mean that Ukraine met the Germans as liberators).
      3. shasherin.pavel
        shasherin.pavel 30 August 2015 10: 08 New
        +10
        Quote: Wayna Qhapaq
        Simple Poles are not bad guys, much better than Ukrainians.

        In 1974, he worked on the Victory collective farm in Pushkinogorsky district of the Pskov region. Students from Georgia were assigned to us in a collective farm house (hostel). There I noted one detail: the distinction in the group and asked the guys what was simpler: "What is it, it seems that all of them are Georgia and the three of them don’t even talk to you?" "They are the children of the rich, and we are ordinary, we have little money, so we are second-class people for them." “Well, they’re from the“ rich, ”but why don’t you have to work, don’t you need money?” "There wasn’t enough to work for Russians yet."
        Here they are simple, poor among Georgians, but arrogant among Russians. It is also necessary to recall how the “Battle with Georgia” took place in Monchegorsk in 1972. I’ll start from the beginning: there was such a tradition in us, as if the yard was not fought in the yard, but if the “opponent” with whom you fought yesterday goes with the girl, this “taboo” cannot be touched. That's when he will be left alone, then find out one on one relationship. It was not always one on one that it was a sin to conceal, but in the presence of the girl "it is impossible !!!". And here they bring a large group of students and all from Georgia. Arrogant save no. They thought that if there are more than 2's, there are hundreds of them, then they are the masters of the city. There is a guy in the park with a girl and the Georgians beat him and dragged the girl into the bushes, they dragged him ... What started here, the "Monchester coalition" rushed to beat the Georgians in a united crowd. The entire recreation park was a huge battle, more than 500 people fought with belts, sticks and even ballot boxes bent over their heads. Students fled to the house allocated to them on Leningradskaya Embankment and barricaded themselves there, and started throwing stones and bricks from above, in response, bottles of gasoline went into action, burned two porches of the five-entrance, newly rebuilt, house. In a flash, all arrogance from ordinary Georgians was knocked down.
        1. EGOrkka
          EGOrkka 1 September 2015 14: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Wayna Qhapaq
          Simple Poles are not bad guys, much better than Ukrainians.



          Well this is complete nonsense !!! Now I have relatives in the ruins, and in Poland I have a neme.
  • Vega
    Vega 30 August 2015 09: 21 New
    +4
    Rewriting and suppressing history is one of the methods of ideological warfare. So no wonder.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 August 2015 09: 30 New
    +8
    J. Beck informed Berlin that "Poland will never allow any soldier of Soviet Russia to enter its territory.".. Until the last moment, they hoped .. that they would get the pieces too ..
    1. shooter cc
      shooter cc 31 August 2015 18: 52 New
      -3
      Quote: parusnik
      J. Beck informed Berlin that "Poland will never allow any soldier of Soviet Russia to enter its territory.".. Until the last moment, they hoped .. that they would get the pieces too ..

      They defended their honor, and did not hope for any pieces there.
      1. 6 inches
        6 inches 31 August 2015 20: 27 New
        +3
        come on .. read ..

        the ratio between killed officers and soldiers in the battles for independence of Poland in 1939 is 1: 32,2 ... think about 1 killed officer-32 soldier .. by the way, the French had a ratio of 1: 2.3. so it’s not worth it .The Polish government fled from the capital after 5 days. And after 16 it was already abroad .. draw conclusions. Hyena has no honor ...
      2. Yura
        Yura 31 August 2015 20: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: parusnik
        Until the last moment, they hoped .. that they would get the pieces too ..

        Well, finally a comment about the essence. A plus.
      3. Yura
        Yura 31 August 2015 20: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: shooter cc
        They defended their honor, and did not hope for any pieces there.

        When Poland, along with fascist Germany, torn Czechoslovakia, did they defend their honor? To snatch more is all the honor. Poland and honor are incompatible concepts.
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 30 August 2015 09: 40 New
    +3
    Poles reappeared. And they deservedly raked off from ours and the Germans in 1939.
    1. sherp2015
      sherp2015 30 August 2015 14: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      Poles reappeared. And they deservedly raked off from ours and the Germans in 1939.


      But they did not have to go on a campaign in Russia ...
      1. Captain nemo
        Captain nemo 30 August 2015 17: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: sherp2015
        But they did not have to go on a campaign in Russia ...

        Why is this not necessary, if after the 2nd World War it remained in its territorial integrity not in 1918, but only with altered borders of the 1920 model.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 30 August 2015 09: 42 New
    +5
    So the Psheks also provoked Germany, trying to block the Dancing corridor and make Dancing Polish! Did they seriously believe that the French would simply rush to Germany because of the Maginot Line? And put hundreds of thousands for the interests of the "Second Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth"? They always suffered from delusions of grandeur.
  • bobby
    bobby 30 August 2015 09: 42 New
    -22
    Quote: sohosha
    Hello Europe, wake up, ask those who survived 1939, there are few of them left. Please do not step on your rake.

    no need to step on their rake - in 1939, Moscow did stupid things and lost 20 million people. The most interesting thing is that among the Soviet soldiers who in 1939 greeted with German colleagues and were happy that Poland had fallen, few survived after two years.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 30 August 2015 09: 46 New
      +7
      One would think that if in the 39th USSR had not captured the eastern part, Hitler would not have attacked. Just go to Moscow he would be much closer.
      1. shooter cc
        shooter cc 31 August 2015 19: 06 New
        -3
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        One would think that if in the 39th USSR had not captured the eastern part, Hitler would not have attacked. Just go to Moscow he would be much closer.

        If Stalin didn’t need common borders with Germany, he would have done everything so that Hitler wouldn’t attack Poland, and so Stalin gave the Fuhrer the go-ahead, saying that he won’t capture claims, because it was very profitable for him. danced for joy after signing the pact.
        1. 6 inches
          6 inches 31 August 2015 20: 33 New
          +2
          He even nearly danced for joy after signing the pact. Did you see it yourself?
          1. shooter cc
            shooter cc 1 September 2015 22: 30 New
            0
            Quote: 6 inches
            He even nearly danced for joy after signing the pact. Did you see it yourself?

            They saw others who later wrote it in memoirs, and independently of arcs from each other. There simply were no reasons for lying.
        2. Yura
          Yura 31 August 2015 21: 00 New
          +2
          Quote: shooter cc
          If Stalin didn’t need common borders with Germany, then he would have done everything to prevent Hitler from attacking Poland,

          So after all, Stalin did everything he could, but in response to the offer of help from the USSR it was said:
          Moreover, back in April, pro-German oriented The head of the Polish Foreign Ministry, J. Beck, informed Berlin that "Poland will never allow any soldier of Soviet Russia to enter its territory."
          That is, documented. Poland hatched plans for a joint campaign with Germany on the USSR or other countries, and therefore your:
          and so Stalin gave the Fuhrer the go-ahead, saying they won’t grab any complaints, because it was beneficial to him, and very much. He even almost danced to the joys after signing the pact.
          a shameless lie and this is still mildly said.
          1. 6 inches
            6 inches 31 August 2015 21: 08 New
            +1
            it is possible and not soft ... the person does not understand that the bandit’s neighbor must be kept as far from home as possible ..
          2. shooter cc
            shooter cc 1 September 2015 22: 45 New
            0
            Quote: Jura
            So after all, Stalin did everything he could, but in response to the offer of help from the USSR it was said:
            Moreover, as far back as April, the pro-German-oriented head of the Polish foreign ministry, Y. Beck, brought Berlin to the notice that "Poland will never allow any soldier of Soviet Russia to enter its territory."

            Are the Poles fools or something to let the Soviet army into their country, are they blind or deaf? they didn’t see what was happening in the conquered countries? which the USSR joined in. One punisher and murderer Tukhachevsky what it cost at the time, everyone remembered and everyone could compare. And what for do you tell them such socialism?
            1. Aqela
              Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 35 New
              -1
              Well, Tukhachevsky is not a good example. Either he has “an innocent victim of the Stalinist regime” at the liber.as.th.ch. mu. If he is a murderer, then he will be sentenced to death by a sentence, if he is a pretty fluffy and an innocent victim, then what is he attacking him for perverting the essence of socialism ... what request
        3. Basil50
          Basil50 1 September 2015 11: 32 New
          +1
          centuries You throw the idea to the Germans, otherwise they have not so much imagination, it's all about preventive action. And so clearly and clearly: he complied with the Stalin directive, and was not guilty of anything, he was forced ...
    2. Wayna qhapaq
      Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 09: 55 New
      +1
      See the loss of Polski in World War II. The Soviet were not happy with the victories of the Germans. Those damn it .. the ones that were dumped in London were probably happy.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 30 August 2015 16: 00 New
        +2
        That's interesting, but in Poland they believe that Polish politicians * carry *? In fact, these liars were chosen by the Poles, and if on behalf of all the Poles these statements were made, then this only causes regret for the poor and wretched in Poland.
        1. Captain nemo
          Captain nemo 30 August 2015 16: 59 New
          +2
          Not only the Poles choose liars for themselves, but also in Russia. Take at least BN Yeltsin, so that he would be elected for the 2nd term, he who is poorly remorseful of his own conscience, had to lie all the time to the “dear Russians” during the 1st period.
          1. Aqela
            Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 38 New
            -1
            I personally did not vote for EBN, although I have a personal letter of congratulation from him for labor successes and other achievements for 1995.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. ankir13
      ankir13 30 August 2015 19: 44 New
      +1
      Yes, and with the Germans as well, almost no one survived those 2 years, the war is friendly, not a Polish butterfly ...
  • Fotoceva62
    Fotoceva62 30 August 2015 09: 56 New
    +12
    “... they have never been so mean as to lead so brave ...” I don’t remember who said it, but you should pay attention to the fact that the Poles who faithfully served Russia achieved excellent results: Paskevich, Rokosovsky, Matsievich, Malinovsky .... .
    We see the tragedy of the people (genetically no different from the Rusak) that was made a spearhead of opposition to Russia, the cannon fodder of expansion on the "Russian Schismatics."
    Ukraine is infected with the same virus, and now we see a crisis and the frenzy of the ideas of “pan-bath”.
    As for the frostbitten ears, there is already nothing to freeze there, and the brains are frostbitten completely. They live by the spinal cord, as in the proverb “wealth is thought.” They like to be cannon fodder of the West.
    1. Wayna qhapaq
      Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 10: 03 New
      +3
      Countryman, forgot Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky Thank you for
      fair opinion.
    2. 6 inches
      6 inches 30 August 2015 18: 36 New
      0
      these are the words of churchill.
    3. Aqela
      Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 40 New
      -1
      Extremely harsh saying. But I agree with its essence.
      By the way, Felix Dzerzhinsky was also from Polish nobles. Yes, and many more you can find the names of prominent Poles, who made a lot of useful things to Russia and the USSR.
  • parafoiler
    parafoiler 30 August 2015 10: 10 New
    0
    Germans shook little zheks ...
  • X Y Z
    X Y Z 30 August 2015 10: 23 New
    +5
    I can’t understand why the Poles consider NATO guarantees more reliable than the Anglo-French guarantees that were not fulfilled in 1939. Maybe they think that the “guarantors” have changed and become somehow more honest and reliable. Or see only what they want to see.
  • Wayna qhapaq
    Wayna qhapaq 30 August 2015 10: 24 New
    +2
    Guys, before criticizing strangers, let's look at our own. Former idols of many - Makarevich, Grebenshchikov, Shevchuk, Akhidzhakova.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 30 August 2015 23: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Wayna Qhapaq
      Former idols of many - Makarevich, Grebenshchikov, Shevchuk, Akhidzhakova.

      Well, I swear by my mother, the first three on your list have never been my idols. I really sympathized with the fourth, even after I found out in the late eighties that she was a close relative of a natural gangster - an Adyghe Jew, Ruslan Akhidzhak, who in XNUMX became vice-governor of the Krasnodar Territory and suddenly died in a Bose after the scandal in Kushchevka, as he oversaw the power block in the province and was a close partner of the governor for the meat business in the region and Adygea. But when, this basically good comedian, started to earn green, an activity uncharacteristic for her profession, in the form of dignifying the whole Russian in the Jewish manner, then excuse my sympathies as a professional.
    2. Aqela
      Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 44 New
      -1
      I don’t remember something, so that BG or Shevchuk vile ditties, like Makar, composed. what
      The fate of Makar on his face is painted large. How much his face has become trash and meaner in recent years ... For me it was strange until I heard his pro-gay political ditties ... Insanity ... What can I do? .. request
  • shrimp
    shrimp 30 August 2015 11: 30 New
    +1
    arrogant were the poles in the past.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 30 August 2015 14: 33 New
    -1
    Beck calculated in his own way.
    Poland had a fairly strong army, there was a Franco-Polish military alliance, when Germany was in a situation where she would have to fight on two fronts. Hit the French immediately and the course of the war would be different.
    The USSR, on the other hand, was an enemy. What does it mean to deploy Soviet troops on Polish territory? Something tells me that a socialist revolution would have happened very quickly in Poland. Of course, the Poles did not want this.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Captain nemo
    Captain nemo 30 August 2015 17: 47 New
    -7
    And I like the Government of the Heroes of Poland in 1939, you will think that there are some millions of Poles who were killed there, because the Polish government defended its territorial integrity on the francs of the diplomatic war with the USSR, and not like until 1939, when the League of Nations considered Poland as an occupier of Lithuanian territory with Vilnius. But about the ban, without freeing its own land of the 1920 model itself, it received it with changes in its entirety, without spending its fighters in attacks on fascist Germany.
    And who in present Poland haunts that exiled government?
    Yes, no one, one honor and praise, and the culprit, moreover, there is someone who inflicted pain and suffering on the Polish people, and this is not only Germany but also the one who followed the orders of the one who gave away the August Forest to someone, because he liked it for hunting to one Prussian general in 1939
    Here they are so joyful and pleasant for me The results of the second world, it’s good that the whole world and Russia for not reviewing their results, and indeed the third world will really begin.
    Well, the gold train that was recently found in the former German Silesia unconditionally Polish. No one will even argue among the miserable dependents of Polish victories.
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 3 September 2015 06: 47 New
      -1
      Well yes. Considering how many times the Polish ruling elite brought the country to pieces, foreign rule and moral collapse ... Yes, there is something to praise them for ... enemies of the Polish people ... lol
  • shooter cc
    shooter cc 30 August 2015 18: 39 New
    -4
    What other corridors? and why are they needed there, if the Poles would agree to this, it would be a form of occupation, the Poles would understand this and rightly disagree, otherwise they would then become one of several Union republics. And Stalin knew for 100 percent that they they don’t do it, it’s a disgrace to the nation. If it were beneficial for Stalin, he would put pressure on Hitler, and there would be no invasion of Poland, but Stalin needed common borders with Germany to begin his campaign in Europe, to begin with, having dealt with the German army. And how did he have pressure, the raw materials on which Hitler depended and much more.
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 30 August 2015 19: 15 New
      -4
      Stalin had already received from Poland his own teeth in such a way that he concluded with her an "honorary" peace for himself and the country of soviets.
      In an interview with representatives of the Polish government in exile in December 1941, on their refusal to fight together with members of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks against Germany, he said in a fever, “We will free your Poland (that is, Bourgeois) and return it to you, but others will think about it” (the words may be slightly different, but the essence is the same).
      That would have happened, but Churchill ruined everything.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • demo
    demo 30 August 2015 18: 56 New
    0
    Already during the first meetings, the head of the Soviet delegation, K. Voroshilov, raised the question of missing parts of the Red Army through Poland, designating this problem as cardinal.
    The French Foreign Ministry agreed with such a statement of the question, recognizing in a note addressed to the Prime Minister of France E. Daladier the Kremlin’s demands are logical and legitimate.

    Question.
    And why did parts of the Red Army need corridors in Poland?
    Were we going to declare war on Germany or were we at war?
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 30 August 2015 19: 06 New
      +1
      No, you weren’t going to, but if you want to appease your enemy with the help of a military alliance, then having entered into a military alliance with France (of course, not secret but widely publicized), you seem to be becoming a party to the conflict and are obliged to consider yourself, that Germany attacked you too and you must give it a worthy rebuff.
      1. shooter cc
        shooter cc 30 August 2015 19: 32 New
        -2
        Quote: Captain Nemo
        No, you weren’t going to, but if you want to appease your enemy with the help of a military alliance, then having entered into a military alliance with France (of course, not secret but widely publicized), you seem to be becoming a party to the conflict and are obliged to consider yourself, that Germany attacked you too and you must give it a worthy rebuff.

        Who wanted to tempt someone? And who needs it, and most importantly more profitable
        1. Captain nemo
          Captain nemo 30 August 2015 19: 54 New
          -2
          Quote: shooter cc
          Who wanted to tempt someone? And who needs it, and most importantly more profitable

          NATO wanted to pacify the USSR and the fact that under it, France in 1914 wanted to pacify Germany with Austria-Hungary, but this alone was not enough for her. Poland was not in a position to cool Germany in 1939, from which they all concluded FIG knows what military alliances, which, as we know, were not always carried out, take at least Russia and Ukraine that left the military alliance in early 1918, and who were overpaid from Germany’s enemies friends with food supplies for the German people and its army to the displeasure of the former co-creators from England and France.
          And to the question of to whom it is all profitable - it is beneficial, as always, to the idiots and cowards who write the Constitutions, oaths, military manuals and other garbage for which we must give our sinful and worthless life, which everyone chooses with the help of the most powerful weapons of civilization different peoples of Europe.
          1. shooter cc
            shooter cc 30 August 2015 21: 29 New
            -2
            Quote: Captain Nemo
            Quote: shooter cc
            Who wanted to tempt someone? And who needs it, and most importantly more profitable

            NATO wanted to pacify the USSR and the fact that under it, France in 1914 wanted to pacify Germany with Austria-Hungary, but this alone was not enough for her. Poland was not in a position to cool Germany in 1939, from which they all concluded FIG knows what military alliances, which, as we know, were not always carried out, take at least Russia and Ukraine that left the military alliance in early 1918, and who were overpaid from Germany’s enemies friends with food supplies for the German people and its army to the displeasure of the former co-creators from England and France.
            And to the question of to whom it is all profitable - it is beneficial, as always, to the idiots and cowards who write the Constitutions, oaths, military manuals and other garbage for which we must give our sinful and worthless life, which everyone chooses with the help of the most powerful weapons of civilization different peoples of Europe.

            Idiots and cowards would not even be allowed into a rocket shot, there was a very smart and cunning policy, especially from Stalin, and Stalin could hardly be called an idiot or a coward, only providence saved all of Europe from a forced socialist paradise.
            1. Captain nemo
              Captain nemo 30 August 2015 22: 56 New
              -1
              Well, for you, within the borders of the USSR, he was not a coward, and the one who was behind the hillock did not really take into account him.
              Those who were behind the hill, including Hitler at that time were more afraid not of the “Red Plague” coming from the east (no matter how all the same Poland would be the first to take the blow), how many repetitions of the same revolutions in their countries and without any "export world revolutions "with bayonets from Russia.
              Everyone is called a very “smart and cunning policy” including fools if his actions played in your favor over time when you have the opportunity to compare and give ratings.
              And on the account of the fact that fools are not allowed in there, tell me what’s the "genius" of Kerensky who during the war gave freedom to soldiers and sailors leaving his government without protection?
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. shooter cc
      shooter cc 30 August 2015 19: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: demo
      Already during the first meetings, the head of the Soviet delegation, K. Voroshilov, raised the question of missing parts of the Red Army through Poland, designating this problem as cardinal.
      The French Foreign Ministry agreed with such a statement of the question, recognizing in a note addressed to the Prime Minister of France E. Daladier the Kremlin’s demands are logical and legitimate.

      Question.
      And why did parts of the Red Army need corridors in Poland?
      Were we going to declare war on Germany or were we at war?

      What for ? but for what would have common borders with Germany, that's why. And to clean up Poland without a lot of blood in the camp of the USSR,
  • Black cat
    Black cat 30 August 2015 22: 44 New
    +3
    Quote: bobby
    no need to step on their rake - in 1939, Moscow did stupid things and lost 20 million people. The most interesting thing is that among the Soviet soldiers who in 1939 greeted with German colleagues and were happy that Poland had fallen, few survived after two years.

    Look at your rake first. For reference:
    1. Poland had a secret agreement with Nazi Germany on a joint attack on the USSR.
    2. Poland participated in the partition of Czechoslovakia after the Munich conspiracy as an ally of Germany.
    3. The negotiations of the USSR on the creation of the union of France, Czechoslovakia and the USSR, as opposed to the Axis countries, were frustrated with the active participation of Poland.
    4. The USSR could not be considered by any European country as an ally against Nazi Germany, since it did not have a land border with it, but it had an aggressively inclined Poland, which was then considered some kind of military force.
    5. Joint Soviet-German parades on the territory of Poland is a myth, but there were more than enough military clashes with the wounded and killed. Although the German ceremonial implied a mandatory "parade" in the divorce of troops.
    6. After the Germans presented the ultimatum, mass anti-German pogroms took place in Poland, propaganda broadcast that the Polish hussars would be teaching life in the Fuhrer in Berlin tomorrow.
    7. The German requirements were not critical for Poland, it could fully satisfy them, but the Poles believed that their army was stronger, and here France would help, in other words, they planned to expand the borders to the west.
    8. The Poles destroyed more than 20 thousand Soviet prisoners of war after the Soviet-Polish war of the 20s of the 20th century.
    To summarize, who are interested - read the documents of those times, my list is extremely small, it can be continued for a long, long time.
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 30 August 2015 23: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: Black cat
      5. Joint Soviet-German parades on the territory of Poland is a myth, but there were more than enough military clashes with the wounded and killed. Although the German ceremonial implied a mandatory "parade" in the divorce of troops.

      The parade in Brest is not a myth if there are photos of this parade with the participation of the Wehrmacht and the Red Army. And he was needed first of all for Hitler, who only in the middle of September asked Stalin to take western Belarus and Ukraine. He was needed because Stalin was afraid that the German generals, unlike the generals of the Red Army, would not obey Hitler’s order and would not give orders to their soldiers to leave the Brest Fortress in battle for which he put a bunch of his soldiers and officers. And so that the German soldiers would not whisper among themselves, about what then they shed their blood if this territory did not go to them. That "diplomatically" without shame for the Wehrmacht and held this parade with honors.
  • them
    them 30 August 2015 22: 48 New
    +1
    .And Poland to clean up without much blood in the camp of the USSR, [/ quote]. Why didn’t you clean your Poland in the USSR after the Second World War? What prevented the tidying up of conquered Finland? The answers are not needed! Your guesses are crap
    1. ruru
      ruru 30 August 2015 23: 01 New
      0
      Quote: jimm
      Why didn’t you clean your Poland in the USSR after the Second World War

      The West did not allow. It is one thing to include in the "social camp", and another thing in the state. Yes, and it was too big. Would not digest.
      Quote: jimm
      What prevented tidy up conquered Finland

      British guarantees to her. As well as the British guarantees of Austria and France. This clearly shows who was in charge of the process.
    2. shooter cc
      shooter cc 31 August 2015 19: 15 New
      -1
      [quote = jimm]. And to clean up Poland without a lot of blood in the camp of the USSR, [/ quote]. Why didn’t you clean your Poland in the USSR after the Second World War? What prevented the tidying up of conquered Finland? The answers are not needed! Your guesses are crap [/ quote]
      [quote] [/ quote] And he would have cleaned up not only Poland and Finland, but all of Europe, if he had managed to attack Hitler himself first. And it turned out to be a completely different calico, because circumstances intervened, which can be described in detail if so Interested in reading on the internet.
      1. 6 inches
        6 inches 31 August 2015 20: 34 New
        0
        you can read you on the internet ... but believe it .. stop
        1. shooter cc
          shooter cc 1 September 2015 22: 26 New
          0
          Quote: 6 inches
          you can read you on the internet ... but believe it .. stop

          But you don’t need to believe here, you just need to compare the facts, and think a little with your own head and not believe all the time to Soviet-Russian historians who are ready to write any fables about the history of Russia for orders and titles
  • them
    them 30 August 2015 23: 21 New
    0
    Quote: ruru
    Quote: jimm
    Why didn’t you clean your Poland in the USSR after the Second World War

    The West did not allow. It is one thing to include in the "social camp", and another thing in the state. Yes, and it was too big. Would not digest.
    Quote: jimm
    What prevented tidy up conquered Finland

    British guarantees to her. As well as the British guarantees of Austria and France. This clearly shows who was in charge of the process.

    So I do not need the same things!