Military Review

On the issue of the "holy" Prince Vladimir

251
On the issue of the "holy" Prince Vladimir

28 July The Russian Orthodox Church commemorates Prince Vladimir, Equal-to-the-Apostles. 1 June 2010 of the year Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed the Federal Law “On Amendments to the Article 11 of the Federal Law“ On Days of Military Glory and Memorable Dates of Russia ””, on the basis of which annually 28 July in Russia celebrates the new memorable date - the Day of the Baptism of Russia.

Prince Vladimir Svyatoslavich, known for the baptism of Rus during his reign, was born around 960. Vladimir was a side son of Svyatoslav from the housekeeper Malusha, originally from the city of Lyubech. Malki's brother was Dobrynya. According to one version, Malusha was the daughter of the Drevlian prince Mala. Prince Vladimir is also known as St. Vladimir, Vladimir the Great, Vladimir the Baptist (in church tradition). According to some researchers, Prince Vladimir is one of the prototypes of the collective epic character Vladimir Red Sun. He was glorified in the face of saints as Equal to the Apostles (the exact date is not known, presumably in the XIV century). The day of his memory in Russian Orthodoxy is celebrated on July 28, therefore the date of Vladimir’s death is considered July 28, although the Russian Prince 15 died July 1015 of the year.

Recently, there has been an information campaign in Russia aimed at exalting the role of Prince Vladimir in stories our state. She keeps up with the strengthening of the role of the church in the Russian Federation. It is obvious that part of the elite of modern Russia is trying to restore the project "Moscow - Third Rome" (or "Russian Empire - 2") with a strong church role. Hence the attempts to replace and gradually remove Soviet symbols and heroes. For example, in Moscow they plan to erect a large monument to Vladimir. At first, they wanted to build it on Sparrow Hills. But after the scandal, they decided to abandon this idea (social activists decided that the usual picture of MSU would change, the university building would no longer prevail, but the monument itself would be another symbolic blow to the Soviet era). In addition, there were problems of a geological and technological nature. Now consider other options. Currently, according to the results of an online survey, Borovitskaya Square is leading.

However, this is a clear conceptual and ideological mistake of the Russian authorities. Firstly, the course towards the churching of the people will not lead to anything good. It will only strengthen the split of the people. An example must be taken from the Soviet society of the 1930-1950-s period (taking into account errors), which was truly one. Strengthening the role of the church will strengthen the possibility of implementing the “Yugoslav scenario” in Russia, that is, the collapse of the country based on the religious factor. Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, pagans, including Russian neo-pagans, will be dissatisfied. And this is the growth of the protest potential. In addition, it is an irreversible rollback to the past, archaization. The growth in the number of churches and mosques does not lead to an automatic growth of goodwill in society and success in science and technology. In particular, despite the rapid growth in the number of churches of various Christian churches, mosques, synagogues and other religious buildings in Russia, a sharp increase in the army of priests, mullahs, shamans, "magicians" and psychics, morally, modern Russia and Russians are much inferior to Soviet civilization and Soviet people.

Secondly, the big question is the identity of the "holy" Prince Vladimir. This is one of the organizers of the first known unrest in Russia - the civil war. When Vladimir seized the Polotsk who had gone over to Kiev, he interrupted the family of the governor of the city, Prince Rogvolod. Moreover, on the advice of his uncle Dobrynya, the “holy” Prince Vladimir first raped Rogneda in front of her parents, and then killed her father and two brothers. Princess Rogneda, who had previously been brought up for Yaropolk, he forcibly took over his wife. Vladimir is a fratricide - Yaropolk's brother was killed on his orders. And Vladimir in this case acted as the leader of the pagan party, as there is indirect information about the sympathies of Prince Yaropolk to the Christian faith. Perhaps Yaropolk adopted Christianity.

The man who before baptism is known as the “great libertine”, who had not only several official wives, but also several hundred concubines in Kiev and in the country residence of Berestove. Tale of Bygone Years so conveys the way of life of Vladimir before baptism: “Vladimir was defeated by lust, and his wives were ..., and his concubines had 300 in Vyshgorod, 300 in Belgorod and 200 in Berestovo, in the village, which is now called Berestovoe. And he was insatiable in fornication, leading married women to her and inflicting maidens. ” Vladimir was so voluptuous that he made even the widow of his brother Yaropolk a concubine, whom he ordered to kill. Christian sources claim that after baptism, the prince “got better”, but there are no other sources confirming this fact.

The prince was a politician who repeatedly changed his convictions. At first he pretended to be an ardent pagan in order to get the support of the pagan party in the struggle for power. Vozdviz in Kiev sanctuary with the idols of the six main gods of Slavic paganism. Vladimir even established human sacrifices to the gods, although this was not typical of Eastern Rus. Then, for political or personal reasons, he decided to adopt Christianity. After all, Christianity, which is already far from the original sources, was then more beneficial to the prince's power than paganism that has been going on since the days of “primitive communism” and “military democracy”. In the West and in Byzantium, Christianity developed, which “covered” the class essence of the existing order (practically slaveholding). Thus, the Byzantine emperor (or Pope) was considered the vicar of God himself on earth. The magnificent and magnificent ceremonial was aimed at illuminating the existing or still emerging class orders, where there are spiritual and secular feudal lords (the ruling class) and serving the population. “Holy” emperors, princes, patriarchs and representatives of the nobility were depicted on the walls of churches. The church space itself was usually divided into two tiers - representatives of the spiritual and secular nobility were placed in the choirs, and simple people crowded below. Therefore, Christianity was much more beneficial to the rulers. It allowed to establish control over the people.

Around 988, after long deliberation, Vladimir himself was baptized, baptized his boyars, and the squadron and, under penalty of punishment, forced the people of Kiev to be baptized as well. Although the process of baptism was not instantaneous and bloodless. In Novgorod, the same governor Dobrynya suppressed an uprising of the local population, which was against Christianization. In the Rostov-Suzdal land (the future Vladimir-Moscow Russia) paganism retained a strong position until the XIII century. Formally, Russia became Christian. The temples-sanctuaries were destroyed, the wise men were killed, those who openly resisted were suppressed by fire and sword, the fires of Perun went out. However, paganism was preserved for centuries. Burial mounds were poured in the villages, Perun and Ognju-Svarozhich were secretly praying, they celebrated violent ancient holidays: Christmas time - New Year festivities, Carnival, Yarila day, he later merged with the Christian Trinity Day, Kupala Day, Rhoda-Pruna Day - Christian Ilyin Day. After several centuries, Christianity became Russian - merged with paganism (this unity would be partially destroyed under the Romanovs).

Vladimir is praised as the organizer of the defense against the Pechenegs. Under Vladimir, the struggle against the Pechenegs became the work of all Russia. Garrisons for border fortresses were recruited even in distant Novgorod, Smolensk and in the basin of the Moskva River, where the Pechenegs did not reach. New fortresses were built on Sula, Trubezhe, Ostro, Desna and Stugne. In addition, Pereyaslavl, Belgorod, Chernigov, etc. were strongly fortified. Belgorod was a kind of camp city, a former reserve for all defensive lines.

However, under Svyatoslav Rus, it was not necessary to strain all his forces so much. He controlled the steppe, and the Pechenegs were for the most part his allies. This is not surprising if one remembers that the Pechenegs as Russian powers of Rurikovich were the same heirs of the Great Scythia (Sarmatia), the ancient civilization, which Russia inherited. But under Vladimir, instead of continuing to have a mutually beneficial alliance, the Russians and the Pechenegs quarreled, and it became necessary to strain all the resources to build a powerful defense system on the southern frontiers.

Vladimir organized the state in such a way that after his death a second unrest began - a civil war, already between his sons. In addition, the Christianization of Russia for a long time put our country under the conceptual and ideological control of the Greek Byzantines. Moreover, some researchers believe that a bloody civil war began, which seriously weakened Russia in front of external enemies and eventually led to its collapse. Only a few centuries of “dual faith”, when Christianity merged with the Russian tradition of many thousands of years, led to the creation of fervent Orthodoxy (“the glory of Pravda, Rule”) by Sergius of Radonezh. However, under the Romanovs, it was destroyed, and the church was almost completely formalized, made an appendage of the state apparatus (now they are trying to repeat it). The true faith (“Holy Spirit”) remained only with individual ascetics, elders like Seraphim of Sarov.

You can read about the dubious role of Vladimir in Yury Nikitin's art book “Prince Vladimir” and the study of the historian Lev Prozorov “Baptism by fire and sword. How drowned in the blood of Pagan Russia.

And they try to make such a person a hero. In the history of Russian civilization there are enough true devotees and heroes. Oleg Veshchy, Svyatoslav Igorevich, Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, Sergius of Radonezh, Ivan the Terrible, Alexander Suvorov, Fyodor Ushakov, Mikhail Kutuzov, Stalin and many others.

Thirdly, the baptism of Rus is not a completely positive fact, as official propaganda has long proven. In particular, it is known from school textbooks that the Russian people allegedly had no choice - either to convert to Christianity, or to fall under the expansion of the “more developed” Christian powers or the Islamic world. Like, all the powers and nations were forced to make such a choice - to adopt Christianity or Islam. Clerical historians sharply oppose Christianity to paganism and divide the history of the Russian people into two periods, considering the adoption of Christianity as a boundary. They call pre-Christian times "centuries of darkness," when "nations were in ignorance," while Christianity seemed to shed "light" on their lives.

However, here we see a double lie. Pagan Russia smashed "more developed" neighbors. In particular, the Russian troops more than once defeated the advanced for that time Christian state - the Byzantine Empire. The Russian pagan princes Rurik, Oleg the Veshchy, Igor and Svyatoslav created a huge world Russian power - the “Rurikovich Empire”, which stretched from the Baltic to the Russian (Black) Sea, from the Danube and the Carpathians to the Volga, the Don and the North Caucasus. That is, paganism was not an obstacle to military victories and the unity of the Slavic-Russian tribes. Despite the long-lasting lies about the “unreasonable pagan Slavs” brought to them by the “good news” by the Greek missionaries, today we know a lot of facts that speak of the ancient developed Russian civilization, the super-ethnos of the Rus, which has its own written language (based on it Cyril and Methodius created its own version), hundreds of cities-towns, developed crafts, including military affairs, etc. But we still prefer to tell stories about the “dark and irrational Slavs”, which the Roma Greeks enlightened gave them writing, crafts and arts.

The second big lie is that Russia had no choice. Ostensibly it was necessary to make a choice between "advanced" religions (ideologies) - Christianity or Islam. We see several huge civilizations on the planet, which still calmly maintain their faith and rely on the internal, rather than introduced from the outside, concept of governance. This is an Indian civilization where Hinduism has dominated for several millennia, continuing the tradition of even more ancient Brahminism and Vedic faith. This is a Chinese civilization, where there is local Taoism and Confucianism. This is a Japanese civilization with traditional Shintoism. Traditional beliefs are preserved in many Asian countries.

From the point of view of Christianity and Islam, they are pagans. However, this does not prevent them from developing and being successful powers, in which many experts see the future of all mankind. When traditionally Christian countries are in a deep spiritual, material and demographic crisis, whence one road leads to the cemetery. Moreover, relying on traditional beliefs allows Asian people to preserve their “I”, to receive nourishment through their roots and to go into the future. India, China and Japan can rely on their traditional faith, which makes them stronger in their opposition to Western civilization. We are talking about spiritual tradition, and not the temporary technological superiority of the West, which allowed the Europeans to temporarily subjugate the eastern countries in the colonial period.

So power is in truth. You can not deliberately mislead people. Vladimir, of course, is one of the key figures in our history, but he is not a saint or a statesman to whom he stands. Russia could successfully preserve its traditional faith. This did not hinder the development of spiritual and material culture (the example of Japan, China and India), military successes and the unity of Russian civilization. The fact that the Russian people did not have a choice, that it was necessary to accept Christianity, that the Russians before Christianization were “wild and backward people,” is a deception. The geopolitical enemies of the Russian people want to "cut off" Russian history. Allegedly, before the baptism of Russia, there was nothing good, solid "dark ages."
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Days
      Days 28 July 2015 06: 31
      +10
      I do not agree, there is no busting with religion in the country, rather a lack of religion, which is why Islam that is non-standard for Russia is spreading (there is nothing bad about Islam, there is only a remark that Islam fills a religious vacuum).

      Well, I won’t say anything bad about the Russian Orthodox Church, because it is forbidden by law to insult the feelings of believers laughing
      1. avt
        avt 28 July 2015 09: 10
        +17
        Quote: Dagen
        I do not agree, there is no busting with religion in the country, rather a shortage of religion

        As an ideology in terms of establishing moral norms - yes. The author is wrong in asserting - “Thus, the power is in the truth. You cannot deliberately mislead people. Vladimir, of course, is one of the key figures in our history, but he is not a saint and not a statesman to look up to. Russia could successfully preserve its traditional faith. This did not interfere with the development of spiritual and material culture (the example of Japan, China and India), military successes and the unity of the Russian civilization. "--- and in India, Buddhism is newcomer, as well as in China, where Confucius really worked on the ideology, and in Japan, too. Vladimir did what at that time ALL the founders of more or less stable state structures. Introduced a single state ideological standard, obliging all kinds of priests - interpreters to follow only him, and not like their purring belly, or another body prompts. , for example, made the Omeyads, who during the life of Muhammad were at enmity with him as a sectarian, and then they simply gathered the main carriers of his suras - the disciples and published the Koran, declaring the state religion. But declaring him saints is a matter of the church and their conscience, and actually and the author's conscience, if an Orthodox believer. Do you want to accept him as a saint? Well, do not put a candle in front of his icon, or even better - put a candle in front of the icon of All Saints in Z And if the author professes neo-paganism, nowadays it is fashionable to believe in native faith, especially when all the rituals are sucked out of the finger by “teachers - bearers of knowledge”, then the message is clear - a worse enemy than Vladimir , like the actual Romanov dynasty for the Old Believers, no. A breakdown of the old religion - moral coordinates, always bloody.
        1. samurai way
          samurai way 28 July 2015 14: 19
          +5
          Let me add it. Russia defeated enemies with God! Donskoy, Grozny, Suvorov, etc. And now Russia is alive through the prayers of the righteous Russians and the intercession of the Mother of God. And you can judge each one as bad or good, and I’m not even talking about your favorite topics about Grozny, Stalin or Putin, but about yourself ... we are all good to someone, bad to someone and understand and accept us, loved by our relatives and friends. So let's love our history, the history of a kind of tribe, and not to blame it
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. sanyavolhv
          sanyavolhv 28 July 2015 22: 34
          +3
          health
          the author is right, in my opinion at 100!
          who does not come to the ENEMY river to me. so said the saint who wanted to baptize Russia.
          and then 200 years ago, Russia baptized Russia with fire and sword ..... this is how the priests themselves wrote about baptism in the chronicles.
          AND THIS MAN HAS BEEN SAID!?!
          I am aware of a person MUST BELIEVE, and in principle it does not matter what. a person will be lost if he does not believe even the devil ....
          let there be at least a Russian-Greek church. if only they would not be proclaimed saints ...
      2. Alexey M
        Alexey M 28 July 2015 12: 02
        +17
        My son asked me yesterday: "Dad planned a billion rubles for the celebration of the Day of the Baptism of Rus. And scientists are asking for a billion rubles to create a vaccine against AIDS. What is more needed?"
        In our city, churches on every corner began to be stuck. Soon another will be opened. Such large-scale work is underway that you feel the dough is buried there not measured. Is that a stupid question, where did the money come from?
        1. avt
          avt 28 July 2015 14: 27
          +9
          Quote: Alexey M
          The Pope has planned a billion rubles for the celebration of the Day of the Baptism of Rus. And scientists are asking for a billion rubles to create a vaccine against AIDS. What is more needed? "

          It’s more important to explain completely free of charge that there is chastity, that is, whole wisdom that includes the rules of sexual and not only hygiene, not healing. But I agree on one thing - often all religious education ends with frank pharisaism, or is simply limited to setting a candle in the temple and then waiting cash and other income.
        2. bastard
          bastard 28 July 2015 14: 41
          +10
          Quote: Alexey M
          In our city, churches on every corner began to be stuck. Soon another will be opened. Such large-scale work is underway that you feel the dough is buried there not measured. Is that a stupid question, where did the money come from?

          This "work" has been systematically conducted since the beginning of the 90s. A block "church - power" is being created. Faith is one thing, the church is quite another. The Church is an institution of spiritual authority. And, of course, business. Business at birth and death, on fooling and fooling the people, on religious strife and disagreements, on discrepancies in Scripture both among representatives of other trends within one confession, and people of other religions. If it goes on like this, then, as they say, put the pig at the table. ... ...
          Religion has always raised its head in troubled times, this is even written in popular science books for children (Soviet period).
          Today anti-religious propaganda is prohibited, therefore religious propaganda has been legalized, it comes from the very "top". the question arises: why is all this and where do they want to bring us?

          PS:
          “Doesn't the Bible, for example, the book“ Deuteronomy ”, call for the killing of those citizens who do not share our religious beliefs?” Be it brother, son, daughter, mother, spouse - do not make any exception; do not argue with them, but kill them immediately! "This is said clearly and frankly. A charming program, and it was drawn up in the name of God!"

          D. Didro
        3. xan
          xan 28 July 2015 16: 00
          -7
          Quote: Alexey M
          My son asked me yesterday: "Dad planned a billion rubles for the celebration of the Day of the Baptism of Rus. And scientists are asking for a billion rubles to create a vaccine against AIDS. What is more needed?"

          in-in, an interesting question. Let's cancel all the holidays and parades altogether, and we will save sick children and those suffering with the money saved, and develop vaccines for AIDS and cancer. Right, dad? But what, the goal is good. And show business must be canceled, nefig have fun when someone in the country suffers.
          1. Kolovrat
            Kolovrat 28 July 2015 23: 08
            +2
            Well ... yes. A cancer vaccine and a little business show are phenomena of the same order. Yes.
          2. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 29 July 2015 01: 28
            +4
            Quote: xan
            Let's cancel all the holidays and parades altogether, and we will save sick children and those suffering with the money saved, and develop vaccines for AIDS and cancer. Right, dad?

            YES, RIGHT!
            And I express my contempt for you !!! for the fact that
            you openly and arrogantly declare that obscurantism is more important than saved human lives.
            1. xan
              xan 29 July 2015 11: 01
              -1
              Quote: Stroporez
              YES, RIGHT!
              And I express my contempt for you !!! for the fact that
              you openly and arrogantly declare that obscurantism is more important than saved human lives.

              With good intentions, the road to hell is paved
              Familiar with this fresh thought?
      3. bastard
        bastard 28 July 2015 12: 25
        +10
        Quote: Dagen
        I don’t agree, there’s no busting with religion in the country, rather a shortage of religion, which is why Islam that is non-standard for Russia is spreading (there is nothing bad about Islam, there is only a remark that Islam fills a religious vacuum).

        The country lacks education. It is a fact.
        Soon the Earth will become flat and rest on whales, turtles, elephants, etc., and the Sun will revolve around the Earth. Accordingly, the Earth will be the center of the universe. There is already a precedent (G. Sterligov and I. Zhirkova). And so on until you completely fall into religious ecstasy. The Christians who destroyed the Library of Alexandria shouted: "After Jesus Christ, we do not need any sciences!"
        And the discontent of representatives of other religious faiths and movements will be necessary. Divide and conquer (Latin divide et impera).
        Quote: Dagen
        Well, I won’t say anything bad about the Russian Orthodox Church, because it is forbidden by law to insult the feelings of believers

        But what about unbelievers at the stake? Or consider people of the second or third grade, subhuman? There is no law to insult the feelings of unbelievers. Again, a precedent? Already being unbelievers is considered indecent, but what will happen next?

        PS:
        I do not want to develop the topic of changing religion in Russia in the commentary, this is a very long conversation. Anyone interested in my opinion on this matter, write in a personal. In an article on the pages of VO dated July 6, 2015. "Why the role of Israel's defender should pass from America to Russia (" The Week ", USA)" I have already spoken on this topic, albeit in passing.
        hi
        1. uyrii67
          uyrii67 28 July 2015 23: 45
          +4
          There is an interesting trend, as a new film about the war is immediately one of the goodies a thief, a pop, a liberal. And a villain, a smersh, a special officer, a political officer, a stupid officer, is obligatory.
      4. Basil50
        Basil50 28 July 2015 13: 17
        +1
        After the Pans of Poland became * Catholics * they immediately received * the right * from the Pope to rob and rob, the legitimacy of all this shamelessness was very loudly preached by Christian figures. As a model for irresponsible robbery was adopted by others, it is from here that the legs of the success of the spread of religion grow.
      5. Basil50
        Basil50 28 July 2015 13: 17
        +3
        And how much wastepaper on the topic of religion and the justification of the right to * honestly wean * someone else's for his own benefit is generally not accountable. Soooooooooooo our story ....
    2. rosarioagro
      rosarioagro 28 July 2015 06: 48
      +7
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      interesting article

      Where the author is interesting :-)
      1. Sensatus
        Sensatus 28 July 2015 07: 06
        +11
        It seems to me that the author does not fully understand history and its global processes and patterns.
        I would like to see how the Moscow princes increased their power, collecting land not under the banner of Orthodoxy, but under the banners of the dear to the author of Perun, goblin and house. After all, he sees them as an alternative, saying that Orthodoxy was not necessary for Russia.
        1. Darkness
          Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 12
          +3
          How did this happen at Svyatoslav? Maybe the matter is solely in the leader?
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 28 July 2015 09: 21
            +10
            Quote: Darkness
            How did this happen at Svyatoslav? Maybe the matter is solely in the leader?

            Svyatoslav is a figure of historical proportions, and when such a figure leaves history, there is a tear between pawns to whom to be a queen, which does not bring anything good. Recall the story of Sasha of Macedon, also a famous figure. Not as sure as Svyatoslav, but still. So, after his death, all this huge power immediately broke up into a bunch of smaller ones, which, moreover, began to fight with each other.
            The emergence of a powerful and unified spiritual principle undoubtedly cemented Russia and made it possible to feel in a single spiritual space. Paganism at that time could not offer anything like this, because each tribe had its own main god.
            1. Darkness
              Darkness 28 July 2015 09: 51
              +5
              The presence of Orthodoxy did not in any way prevent the civil strife for centuries.
              1. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 28 July 2015 10: 13
                +11
                Quote: Darkness
                The presence of Orthodoxy did not in any way prevent the civil strife for centuries.

                The strife is a matter of pride of individual princes, not Orthodoxy. The presence of Orthodoxy helped to overcome this strife, because most bishops always acted as peacekeepers. And even during the tear, the presence of a single main metropolitan was very decisive, not without reason when Moscow began to rise, it did everything possible to ensure that the metropolitan was in Moscow, and not in Rostov, for example.
                1. reservist
                  reservist 28 July 2015 11: 53
                  0
                  why in Rostov? until Moscow, the throne of the metropolitan was in Vladimir, and until the 13th century in Kiev ... i.e. in the most powerful Russian principality at one time ...
                2. Kolovrat
                  Kolovrat 28 July 2015 23: 39
                  +1
                  Yes Yes. And if the Metropolitan would not have wailed and did not impose the sign of the Cross ... well, there would have been no victory. No, that's all. And he who does not believe, Rodnover, Neopagan ... and finally anahteme.
              2. captain
                captain 28 July 2015 13: 58
                +4
                I am not a political scientist, not a scientist, an ordinary person. I believe that the author is basically right, dense and dark Russia was not before the adoption of Orthodoxy. The constant humiliation by Russian church leaders before the period of baptism reminds me of the actions of the Bolsheviks and their followers, who say the same thing. All that Russia has achieved, according to the Communists, all thanks to the CPSU. At the same time, fans of the revival of Orthodoxy forget that Russia was before them. And not only it was, but also had many cities, traded with the whole world and had a written language. The Communists believe that it was only thanks to their activities that we became an industrial power. I am not a fan of the United States, but there were no communists in power and the children of their presidents did not run and did not run to the USSR, as the children of our general secretaries of the CPSU and other party bosses did and do. The author is right in many ways. Put a plus for the article.
                1. rosarioagro
                  rosarioagro 28 July 2015 15: 59
                  +4
                  Quote: captain
                  . The Communists believe that it was only thanks to their activities that we became an industrial power.

                  And thanks to whose then?
            2. Penzuck
              Penzuck 28 July 2015 14: 05
              +2
              Quote: Darkness
              How did this happen at Svyatoslav? Maybe the matter is solely in the leader?

              Actually, if you recall the Macedonian Alexander Filippovich, then he left half the army in Greece, and taking with him the Greek hoplites flooded the Persians ...
              That is, it provided a strategic reserve ... Svyatoslav didn’t have a RESERVE ... He exposed the capital and put it under attack ... And the mother with his wife and children at the same time ...
              The only one who knew how to rule the country was Olga ... Also a saint ... by the way. General yes, but not an "administrator".
              1. Kolovrat
                Kolovrat 29 July 2015 00: 06
                0
                If adherence to Jewish doctrine is considered the criterion of "heiniality" - then yes. By analogy with the "son of Rabichich" Vovka, ask what this "saint" did before accepting the "true veGa". And what is a mother worth if her own son declared - "Christian faith is an ugliness!"

                And he DESTROYED the powerful centuries-old parasitic Jewish state-state of the Khazar Khaganate. Without faith in the Jew. Oh wei!
                1. Penzuck
                  Penzuck 29 July 2015 07: 58
                  +2
                  Those. you are on the one hand
                  Quote: Kolovrat
                  to Jewish doctrine

                  treat badly. By machine gun Olga Christian is bad.

                  It turns out that once the pagan Svyatoslav destroyed Khazaria
                  Quote: Kolovrat
                  Jewish state

                  He is good.
                  AND SIMULTANEOUSLY ASKING
                  Quote: Kolovrat
                  what this "saint" was doing before accepting the "true veGa".

                  , you have a negative attitude towards Olga the pagan.
                  Conclusion: YOU EVERYTHING IS EQUAL, Olga is a Christian or Olga is a pagan, you personally don't like her ...
                  And consequently...
                  Quote: Kolovrat
                  Without faith in the Jew. Oh wei!
                  you cannot build a logical chain and be as objective as possible.
                2. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx 29 July 2015 08: 11
                  +2
                  Kolvrat, ask at your leisure how the Jewish believers themselves relate to Christians in general and to Jesus in particular. Maybe you will discover something new for yourself, or maybe you will cease to assert nonsense, such as "Jewish doctrine"
            3. bastard
              bastard 28 July 2015 16: 32
              +6
              Quote: Trapper7
              Paganism at that time could not offer anything like this, because each tribe had its own main god.

              And there was nothing to offer. It had its own. The main god is the ancestor. Some were descended from Svarog, others from Dazhbog, etc., the children of the Dazhbogovs, the grandchildren of Svarog (see the film "Primordial Rus"). And the head of everything is Rod. We were the descendants of our ancestors, who were called gods, were rich in fame and deeds of our ancestors. And we WERE NOT SLAVES, and there was no slavery. And now we are slaves of God, or rather, slaves of a man elevated to the rank of a deity.
              1. Penzuck
                Penzuck 29 July 2015 08: 13
                +3
                Quote: villain
                . The main god is the ancestor.

                Those. Slavic legend of Belobog and Chernobog you did not read?

                And the second one. Ibn Faladan is lying? about the Aryan faith? Well, there is burning of dust, with the prince his beloved wife, horse, servants are burned?
                Other sources (including Byzantine) also describe approximately the same.

                And that means exactly half of what you wrote to the cheaters ... Among the Celts, Germans and others, under Roman and Greek influence, the ancestors began to identify some of the pantheon gods, with their locals and the days of the week were called ...
                And what gods, what kind of faith are you talking about, if there are no normal priests (a few)? And in general ... "Aryan faith" or "Rodnoverie"? What kind of faith did the Russians, Polyans, Drevlyans, Krivichi have (really universal)? Poke your finger - here is the priest ... here is the deity ... And so the writings ... Mokosh = Aphrodite, for example ... harlots are called moosh in some places ...
                Not even gods, BER in Russia there were several
                1. bastard
                  bastard 29 July 2015 10: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: Penzuck
                  Those. Slavic legend of Belobog and Chernobog you did not read?

                  Read. And not one option.
                  Quote: Penzuck
                  Ibn Faladan is lying? about the Aryan faith? Well, there is burning of dust, with the prince his beloved wife, horse, servants are burned?
                  Other sources (including Byzantine) also describe approximately the same.

                  Maybe it’s lying. If a political order arrives, then it is sure to lie. What do the West and the USA write and say about today? From their point of view, we are almost cannibals, savages. In the same way they spoke of the American Indians. What happened to them? Maybe the scribble of F. Cooper is the true truth? I don’t think so, since this is fiction, and possibly a political order.
                  Are Byzantine (Western) sources impeccably true about us? It was the expansion of the West into Russia, which was preceded by an information war. Everything repeats as before, the West acts according to a pattern, and this scheme is still working.
                  Quote: Penzuck
                  Which means exactly half of what you wrote lies ...

                  I didn’t write it, I just set out what I read.
                  Quote: Penzuck
                  And what kind of gods, what faith are you talking about if there are no normal priests (units)?

                  The books of the USSR (you’ll excuse me, but I was born and studied) wrote that introducing the new faith, pagan temples were destroyed, and temples of the new faith were built in their place, but the priests and their followers were destroyed.
                  Your point of view, probably, coincides with the opinion of academicians G. Arbatov (now his over-aged daughter is "kindling") and D. Likhachev (both, referring to the statement of the Sun-like, are representatives of the "titular" nation). Say, the Slavs were stupid, wild and dirty, they lived in trees and in swamps, they were afraid of everything and everyone and prayed to the life-giving stump.

                  Quote: Penzuck
                  And so the writings ... Mokosh = Aphrodite, for example ... harlots in some places call mokosh ...

                  Any positive image can be denigrated by systematic slander, by imparting opposing qualities that are not peculiar to it. As an example, take a look at slopping and pseudo-intellectual vomiting of the past of our Motherland, it is enough to turn on the TV. In linguistics there is a concept of changing basic vocabulary (google to help because the list of literature is long), this also includes a change in the semantic load and emotional coloring of basic words, ideas and expressions, including phraseological.
                  Not even gods, BER in Russia there were several

                  It is impossible to deny. It could even be so.
                  Good health to you! drinks
                  1. Penzuck
                    Penzuck 29 July 2015 11: 05
                    +2
                    Quote: villain
                    I read, and not one option.

                    Dad they have Rod?
                    Quote: villain
                    Maybe it’s lying.

                    It is checked at a time ... He was not the only one who wrote ... In India, such a custom has survived to this day ... among the "wizards" ... Or was there no common Aryan faith?
                    Quote: villain
                    I didn’t write it, I just set out what I read.

                    "Read" in the film wassat ? Gorgeous ...
                    Quote: villain
                    that introducing a new faith, pagan temples were destroyed, and temples of a new faith were built in their place, while priests and their followers were destroyed.

                    Because they are the opposition of the authorities ... You will find examples yourself ...
                    Quote: villain
                    Say, the Slavs were stupid, wild and dirty, lived on trees and in swamps, were afraid of everything and prayed to a life-giving stump.

                    Do you think the Slavs immediately became cultural? And immediately became more culturally Mordovians, Mari? Udmurts (also formerly pagans by the way), their gods, do not they?
                    D. Likhachev, G. Arbatov, wrap around the "Sun-like"? Yes, I do not know such comrades, what a bad habit? I do not communicate with you according to the textbook, but express my opinion ...

                    Quote: villain
                    Good health to you!

                    - Same to you!
                    Quote: villain
                    any positive image can be denigrated

                    Like St. Vladimir?
                    1. bastard
                      bastard 29 July 2015 13: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: Penzuck
                      It is checked at a time ... He was not the only one who wrote ... In India, such a custom is still preserved ... among the "wizards" ..

                      Not checked for "time". Descriptions vary. Historians, chroniclers and representatives of the clergy (and they also describe historical events) worked and are working in close contact with the secular authorities, which we observe to this day. It is a single organism. They can write both on their own and to order (mostly, in my opinion). Again, our opinions may not coincide and this is normal.
                      Quote: Penzuck
                      Or was there no common Aryan faith?

                      Maybe it was, or maybe not. I am not the owner of a time machine. No wonder Mohammed said that the prophets carry true faith to the peoples in the form of the most understandable and acceptable for them. For each type of intellect, psychotype of the nation, if you like - separately.
                      Quote: Penzuck
                      D. Likhachev, G. Arbatov, wrap around the "Sun-like"? Yes, I don’t know such comrades,

                      I don’t break in! The fact that these people are unknown to you happens. The first two are academicians of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, and then the RAS (details on Wikipedia). Sun-like, I dignify our president. Or do you consider him unworthy of this epithet? Bring another.
                      Quote: Penzuck
                      Because they are the opposition of the authorities ... You will find examples yourself ...

                      Right! And the examples are darkness.
                      Quote: Penzuck
                      Quote: villain
                      any positive image can be denigrated

                      Like St. Vladimir?

                      Yes! And not only denigrate, but also exalt.
                  2. Penzuck
                    Penzuck 29 July 2015 11: 34
                    0
                    Among other things, the tomb of Prince Chernago under Chernihiv fully confirms the words of the Arab traveler IBN Faladan ... In addition to the remains of the prince himself (as you understand it didn’t burn him), there are the remains of a horse and other people ... if you have little Archaeological data ... then what else to tell?
                    You whitewash the fact that white was not originally ... according to Faladan, so that the girl who agreed to die with the prince does not run away, two girls were assigned to her, who got the bracers of the murdered woman. Well, there we will not give the general intercourse of the combatants with the victim ...
                    A similar custom among the Scythians (Iranian-speaking, and consequently the Aryans) was described by other authors ... In Christian teachings against paganism of the 12th-13th centuries. they write about Rod as about God, whom all nations worshiped.
                    Rod was god of heaven, thunderstorms, fertility. Hero of the Mordovian epic 6 century AD Tyushtya was son of the god of thunder... Perun, Thor, the Egyptians, there ...
          2. Scraptor
            Scraptor 28 July 2015 10: 43
            +2
            In national character and morality the most.

            Byzantium was also Orthodox, but in Orthodox Russia there was no "Byzantine". There, almost all the amperators were killed by relatives and the Oedipus complex was commonplace. stop
          3. avt
            avt 28 July 2015 10: 53
            +5
            Quote: Darkness
            How did this happen at Svyatoslav?

            And what actually "happened" with Svyatoslav? He did not sit in Dorostol and in fact did not create some kind of new Pan-Slavic state, and he obviously died at the suggestion of those who betrayed his own people. Why should he starve on the doorsteps? From Krivoy's Polovtsian gang - exactly who And then from the inner circle Vladimir drew lessons from his father's attempt and took a sharp turn in domestic politics. If you want, the algorithm for building a state is directly parallel to Stalin's. Well, if viewed in opposition to the Trotskyist theory of permanent revolution. So Svyatoslav seems to be like the permanent Pan-Slavic idea of ​​building a certain state was moving, and Vladimir was quite a state for himself, clearly understanding his resources and the need for a standard in the form of state ideology, which religion was. By the way, the same was done in the Roman Empire. Moreover, in its eastern part, more than successfully , but they ended exactly as in the USSR, when they were disappointed in their own preached ideology and frankly They neglected, for which they paid with the complete collapse of the state and the more stable Turks came. Yes, in fact, Europe repeats its own Roman and Byzantine, as a part of old Rome, experience, but in a slightly different form. Everything new is well forgotten old. Here in the same Bible in the Old Testament there are many such examples even before the Roman Empire,
          4. lidiy
            lidiy 28 July 2015 13: 03
            +2
            Years of government: 945-972
            Prince Svyatoslav became famous as a brave warrior and a talented commander. Almost his whole life went on hikes. He shared all the hardships of camp life with his warriors.
            Do not attack enemies unnoticed. Always sent ambassadors, saying: "I want to go to you." He was physically strong. The defeat of the Khazar Khaganate (964-966)
            The memory of the warrior-prince, Alexander the Great of Eastern Europe, is carefully preserved in the memory of the Russian people. His expressions became winged: “I am coming for you” (“I am coming for you!”), “The dead have no shame.”
        2. Yars
          Yars 28 July 2015 12: 18
          +3
          The author does not understand the role of the Orthodox Church in the structure of great Russia (Russia). Russia consisted of various Slavic tribes, they needed something to unite and for this, Russia was baptized by Prince Vladimir. This was clearly understood by the Soviet revolutionary Judean elite (Lenin, Trotsky) and began the destruction of Tsarist Russia with the destruction of the Orthodox Church, because without this you can’t divide the brotherly people into many other nations and shed as much brotherly blood in the civil war! The great leader of all times and peoples, Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) clearly understood this and the field of coming to power began to restore the Orthodox Church! The church under Stalin began to celebrate Easter and read the liturgy. Stalin gave the order to fly around the front of the plane with the Kazan Icon of the Mother of God. After Stalin's poisoning, a Trotskyite of Khrushchev came to power, one of the first decisions of which was the ban of the Orthodox faith and the closure of the Orthodox Church. Today, in the West, the Orthodox Church’s great role in the unification of Slavic peoples is also clearly understood, and that’s why Ukraine’s society is being divided with the help of the Kiev Patriarchate (whom Athos elders recognized as schismatics) and other Western sects (Jehovah’s Witnesses, Subbotniks, Pentecostals and other evil spirits). ).
          1. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 28 July 2015 14: 40
            +4
            Quote: YARS
            This was clearly understood by the Soviet revolutionary Jewish elite (Lenin, Trotsky)
            Joseph Vissarionovich mentioned after these words would tell you about this far from a couple and not at all affectionate ...

            The great leader of all times and peoples Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) clearly understood this and the field of coming to power began to restore the Orthodox Church!
            Before you wrote nonsense, you would have taken an interest in the opinion of Joseph Vissarionovich himself about the church and religion (it, by the way, is somewhat more radical than the opinion of Vladimir Ilyich)

            Stalin ordered that a plane with the Kazan icon fly around the front line
            You lagged behind life - comrade Februaryists have already figured out this stupidity http://beloedelo.ru/researches/article/?162

            The only thing that remains incomprehensible to me is the ease with which people who consider themselves Christians violate the ninth commandment.
            1. Yars
              Yars 28 July 2015 23: 31
              -1
              when I talk about the Jewish top leadership, then of course I DON'T HAVE Stalin! so what do you think you Stalin just decided to take revenge on Trotsky for his weed of fraternal peoples? Or do you want to say Leib Davidovich Brunshtein (Trotsky) is not a Jew? The fevralists are here just like you, you, like Samsonov, are a typical liberal, who blackens great personalities, and the tyrants who have swept the country in fraternal blood benefit the tyrants! Do not try to translate arrows
              1. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 29 July 2015 03: 05
                0
                Quote: YARS
                I think that you are carrying the next nonsense when speaking of Stalin's revenge (you carried the same nonsense above about Lenin)
                Trotsky was bad not because he was a Jew and a revolutionary, but because he was an opportunist (the whole movement was named after him).

                "Trotsky said in his speech that Stalin's biggest mistake was the theory about the possibility of building socialism in one country, in our country. It turns out, therefore, that we are not talking about Lenin's theory about the possibility of building socialism in our country, but about some then, unknown to anyone, Stalin's “theory.” I understand this to mean that Trotsky set out to fight against Lenin's theory, but since openly fighting against Lenin is a risky business, he decided to carry out this struggle under the guise of fighting against “theory” Stalin. Trotsky wants this to facilitate the struggle against Leninismmasking this struggle with his criticism of Stalin's "theory". That this is exactly the way it is, that Stalin has nothing to do with it, that there can be no question of any "theory" of Stalin, that Stalin never claimed anything new in theory, but only sought to facilitate the complete triumph of Leninism in our party, in spite of Trotsky's revisionist attempts, I will try show below. In the meantime, we note that Trotsky's statement about Stalin's "theory" is a maneuver, a trick, a cowardly and unsuccessful trick, calculated to cover up this struggle with Lenin’s theory the victories of socialism in individual countries, the struggle that began in 1915 and continues to this day "(I. Stalin, vol. 9, p. 116)

                "Trotsky knows perfectly well that the liquidators in legal publications just combine the slogan 'freedom of coalitions' with the slogan: down with the illegal party, down with the struggle for the republic. Trotsky's task is to cover up liquidationism by throwing sand in the eyes of the workers" (V. Lenin vol.21 p.31)
                "Trotsky unites everyone who is dear and any ideological decay; everyone who does not care about the defense of Marxism; all the townsfolk who do not understand why the struggle is about and do not want to learn, think, and seek the ideological roots of the divergence" (V. Lenin vol. 20 page 46)
                "Trotsky arrived, and this scoundrel immediately sniffed with the right wing of Novy Mir against the left-wing Zimmerwaldites !! That's it !! That's how Trotsky is !! Always equal to himself = wagging, cheating, posing as a leftist, helping the right while you can ..." Lenin vol. 49 p. 390)

                So with what joy do you equate Trotsky with Lenin, while contrasting Lenin with Stalin, and how does the nonsense you wrote compare with the 9th commandment?

                Or maybe you want to say that Leiba Davidovich Branstein (Trotsky) is not a Jew?
                You worship a Jew, but at the same time blame the Jews for all mortals ... Nationalistic schiz - it is like that.

                The Februaryists are just here like you
                And not a single evidence, not a single confirmation of my own balabolism neither against me, nor regarding the tale of the icon’s flights over Moscow - and this Christian does not care about the prohibition of perjury laughing
        3. bastard
          bastard 28 July 2015 12: 58
          +5
          Quote: Sensatus
          I would like to see how the Moscow princes increased their power, collecting land not under the banner of Orthodoxy, but under the banners of the dear to the author of Perun, goblin and house.

          "Trade in Constantinople could only be those peoples who recognized the power of the Byzantine Empire or by military force obtained from it a treaty providing for the right to this trade. There is a lot of evidence about the military campaigns of ancient Rus against Byzantium. The Patriarch of Constantinople Photius in 866 says about the invasion of Russia to Byzantium, calling Russia either a people grew up, then Scythians. According to Photius, the dews, or Scythians, are a large, well-known people who have recently conquered their neighbors. Two other Byzantine writers of the XNUMXth century, Leo the Deacon and Zaire , the Eastern Slavs are also called "Rus", then "Scythians", then "Tauro-Scythians".
          The contract of 912 of the Russian prince Oleg with Byzantium, according to which Byzantium, reached us she was forced to allow Russian merchants to trade in Constantinople, while they were assigned a place to live and the amount of maintenance was determined. That this agreement was not the first in time, it can be seen from the fact that it refers to the previous agreement, to "from many years between the Hrestians (Greeks) and former Rus love."
          The increased power of the 880th century the old Russian state was experienced by its other neighbors. The “History of Tabaristan” tells about the campaigns of the Rus in 909, 910 and 913. on Abesgun, Makale, Sari, Daleiman and Gilan. According to the Arab writer Al-Masoudi, in 914–XNUMX. Rus entered the Caspian Sea on 500 vessels accommodating 100 people each(well, savages at all, this is "only" 50 thousand sailors). Descending by sea to the Apsheron Peninsula, they occupied the island, which received the name Russian, and for many months dominated the sea. One detachment of Russians landed near Ferahabad. Al-Masoudi, describing this campaign of the Russians, says that "no one but them swims on this sea."
          In 941, Prince Igor from Kiev undertook a campaign against Byzantium. On 10 rooks (!) Russians went to the Black Sea, which was then called Russian. They could not take Constantinople, but they ravaged the Byzantine coast from the Bosphorus to Paflagonia. In the naval battle, a significant part of the Russian fleet was burned by "Greek fire." The remnants of the fleet returned to the Kerch Strait, where the strong Russian fortress of Tmutarakan was located on the Taman Peninsula. Three years later, Igor resumed the war against Byzantium, culminating in a new treaty on the Danube in 944. Under this agreement, Igor retained his possessions in eastern Crimea and on the Taman Peninsula, but pledged not to attack the Crimean possessions of Byzantium (Korsun land). For this, the Greeks in turn
          should, at the request of Igor, give him warriors from their possessions in the Crimea, "he will only need more." After concluding the said agreement, Russian ships sailed along the Caucasus coast, and then overland through the North Caucasus to Derbent, occupying the large trading city of Berdaa. According to Arab sources, the Rus, having taken the city, "declared mercy there and behaved well [with the inhabitants]." Apparently, this campaign was undertaken in order to join the new territory to the Tmutarakan region, but the epidemic that broke out soon forced the Russians to leave Berdaa.
          1. bastard
            bastard 28 July 2015 13: 00
            +6
            So, in the X century. the old Russian state was already the strongest in Europe. It triumphantly fought with Byzantium, it finally defeated the Khazar Khaganate in the lower Volga, after which the Russian princes became known as the Great Hagan.
            By the end of the X century. the territory of the ancient Russian state extended from the mouth of the Danube to the mouth of the Volga and from the foothills of the Caucasus to the Gulf of Finland. The city of Tmutarakan became a major Russian commercial port in the south, and Novgorod in the north.
            Already in the XI century. Novgorod was the most comfortable city in Northern Europe. It had bridges and water pipes. It is interesting to note that the first pavement appeared in France in 1184, in Germany at the beginning of the 1417th century, and in England in XNUMX.
            Under Svyatoslav (died in 972), the Old Russian state had not yet received certain boundaries, which varied depending on the successful military campaigns of the prince's squad, and did not yet have its own permanent center. Having conquered the Danube cities, Svyatoslav wanted to make the city of Pereyaslavets the capital of his state, saying that “all good things converge there: from Greek is golden, pavoloki, wine and vegetables are diverse; from Czech, from Eel, silver and Komoni; from Russia, however, is soon and wax, honey and servants. ” After the death of Svyatoslav, the Old Russian state was divided between his three sons. The eldest son Yaropolk reigned in Kiev during the life of his father, the second son Oleg received the Drevlyansk land with the city of Vruchev, the third son Vladimir was the prince in Novgorod. As a result of the internecine struggle, Yaropolk and Oleg were killed, and the old Russian state went to Vladimir.
            Here it is.

            N.V. Vodovozov. "History of Ancient Russian Literature"
            Publishing house "Education", Moscow, 1972
            A. Ya. Garkavi. Tales of Muslim writers about Slavs and Russians. SPb., 1870
            F. Engels. Origin of the family, private property and state. State Political Publishing House, 1951
            "Monumenta Germaniae Historica", SS., T. 1, 1877
            "The Tale of Bygone Years", part 1. M. - L., Publishing House of the USSR Academy of Sciences, 1950.
            2. V.V. Bartold. Arabian news about the Rus. “Soviet Oriental Studies”, vol. 1. M. - L., 1940.
        4. Basil50
          Basil50 28 July 2015 13: 06
          +4
          Russia without Christ developed very normally, and only with the final capture of * Christians * RUSI, the decline and decay of a single people into specific peoples began. Tales of the backwardness of RUSSIANS are purely Christian nonsense. There were several written scripts in RUSSIAN culture. By the way, the last of the novels used to record music in the ancient way * hooks *, from which * budded * musical * note. Tales of different lives and legends are much paler than RUSSIAN FOLK TALES; I like the most about * Kashcheya Bessmertnova *.
          1. grandson of Perun
            grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 15: 45
            +4
            Quote: Vasily50
            Tales of different lives and legends are much paler than RUSSIAN FOLK TALES; I like the most about * Kashcheya Bessmertnova *.

            There is an opinion that the prototype of Kashchei was the Egyptian pharaohs and their mummies.
            And the prototype of the cannibal grandmother in the hut on chicken legs was African tribes who live in huts on stilts (hello tropical rain) and do not mind eating their neighbor.
            That is, our ancestors traveled through Egypt to the center of Africa and left us a description of their adventures wink
            Such wild and uneducated ancestors we had in the pre-Christian era ...
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 29 July 2015 08: 59
              +2
              Quote: Perun's grandson
              There is an opinion that the prototype of Kashchei was the Egyptian pharaohs and their mummies.

              laughing Namesake, here you have amused me !!!!
              But the Kyrgyz have an opinion on this ... one of the versions says that Kashchei was a Kyrgyz and had a twin brother! bully
              Quote: Perun's grandson
              And the prototype of the cannibal grandmother in the hut on chicken legs was African tribes who live in huts on stilts (hello tropical rain) and do not mind eating their neighbor.

              what one of the versions .... the hut on chicken legs is a funeral home on the stumps of the ancient Slavs!
              Quote: Perun's grandson
              That is, our ancestors traveled through Egypt to the center of Africa and left us a description of their adventures

              But this version is generally super !!!! wassat From the series, who dug the Black Sea?
          2. The comment was deleted.
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. Alex
          Alex 28 July 2015 15: 34
          +9
          Quote: Sensatus
          lovely to the author of Perun, goblin and brownies. After all, he sees them as an alternative, saying that Orthodoxy was not necessary for Russia.
          Why is atheism bad as an alternative? Or without this "crutch for the weak" (M. Gorky about religion) nowhere?

          I would like to see how the Moscow princes increased their power, collecting land not under the banner of Orthodoxy
          As far as I know, the USSR did not achieve the dominant world positions thanks to the Old Testament instructions. And now they want to withdraw evolutionary teaching from the school biology course. Then the turn, obviously, lies with the Periodic Law and Newtonian mechanics. Well, and there are not far from turtles ...
        7. Kolovrat
          Kolovrat 28 July 2015 23: 26
          -1
          Well, where the author is to such iksperdov. He encroached on the sacred. He named a lecher, ka (bastard born of a servant), rapist, fratricide, not once apostate, who came to "holiness" due to impotence of old age, what it was ... Ayayay !!!
          1. Penzuck
            Penzuck 29 July 2015 08: 38
            0
            Quote: Kolovrat
            Well, where the author is to such iksperdov. He encroached on the sacred. He named a lecher, ka (bastard born of a servant), rapist, fratricide, not once apostate, who came to "holiness" due to impotence of old age, what it was ... Ayayay !!!


            How does the Church assign "holiness", how many "ranks" and "types" of "holiness", for what merits?
            Personally, I know: there are martyrs, saints ... among all the others, the apostles are singled out. There are Equal-to-the-Apostles SAINTS - the acts of which are comparable in importance to the activities of the apostles. St. Olga, and St. Vladimir - Equal-to-the-Apostles Saints ...
            Since both before the adoption of Christianity and after the apostles did not differ in ideal behavior, what can we say about "mere mortals".
        8. Basil50
          Basil50 29 July 2015 11: 37
          +1
          sensatus. Take the following as a joke: * Mongolian * invasion; veiled description * of baptism * RUSI, the main evidence is that both of them demanded a tenth of everything that Rusich own. By the way, the Russian Orthodox Church does not pay taxes and payments go abroad to Istanbul, i.e. all signs * of a foreign agent *.
        9. The comment was deleted.
      2. nadezhiva
        nadezhiva 28 July 2015 07: 52
        +1
        Quote: rosarioagro
        Where the author is interesting :-)

        What's the catch? Links to the source of the article no. There is no middle name.
        Intrigued, in short.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 28 July 2015 08: 05
          +5
          Samsonov articles on the site countless.
          he himself is the source
          http://topwar.ru/search.html?searchid=2140493&web=0&text=%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8
          1%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2+%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80
      3. Yars
        Yars 28 July 2015 12: 34
        0
        Moreover, on the advice of his uncle Dobrynya, the “holy” Prince Vladimir first raped Rogneda in front of her parents, and then killed her father and two brothers. Princess Rogneda, formerly wedded to Yaropolk, he forcibly married


        such statements sucked from the finger, and the purpose of this, as much as possible to blacken the people who have made an indisputable contribution to the structure of Russia-Russia!
        1. lidiy
          lidiy 28 July 2015 13: 30
          +1
          "The purpose of this is to denigrate as much as possible the people who have made an undeniable contribution to the structure of Russia-Russia!"
          Agree with you.
          The author of the article is clearly an atheist, and besides this, he clearly belongs to those people who are trying to blacken all the pages of history that we are rightfully proud of. Statements about Vladimir are very reminiscent of stories about the bloodthirsty Stalin and others. I am sure that if they proposed to glorify not Vladimir, but someone else, they would have told a lot of negativity about him in the same way. The author suggests to us: "You can read about the dubious role of Vladimir in Yuri Nikitin's fiction book" Prince Vladimir "and the study of the historian Lev Prozorov" Baptism with fire and sword. How Pagan Rus was drowned in blood. "
          Interestingly, the author has guarantees that after 20 years these writers will not be called liars, like Solzhenitsyn?
          1. Yars
            Yars 28 July 2015 23: 37
            0
            Fully agree with you Lydia!
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 29 July 2015 18: 32
            +1
            All this is taken from their chronicles. There is such a thing PSRL - read ... After reading it will become clear - it's impossible to denigrate yourself any better!
      4. Kolovrat
        Kolovrat 28 July 2015 23: 13
        0
        Freud It happens.
    3. sherp2015
      sherp2015 28 July 2015 10: 01
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      An interesting article with which I almost completely agree.


      Samsonov well done, that's right:

      enemies of the Russian people want to "cut off" Russian history. Allegedly, before the baptism of Russia, there was nothing good, continuous "dark ages."

      paganism was not an obstacle to military victories and unity of the Slavic-Russian tribes.


      We are persistently planted with different options.
    4. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold 28 July 2015 10: 04
      +7
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      but in the country it is a real "bust" with religion, not a respected "patriarch"

      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      KGB representatives in the church

      By whom is the Patriarch disrespected, Filaret and the editorial board of "Yehu Matsi"? And the KGB ceased to exist back in 1992, so what kind of representatives are we talking about? It would be nice to get a link to the original source (chronicle), about the rape of Rognedi, I wonder how the chronicler described it more than 1000 years ago? By the way, on "Dozhd", or, for example, Albats, Russia and Russians are not respected, maybe under the pressure of these "authorities", it would be worth "canceling" them, otherwise it is sheer dominance: 1/6 of the land, 120 million, this is not democratic. With respect.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 11: 26
        +4
        Quote: fyvaprold
        Whom the Patriarch disrespect

        Yes, our people, not that they kiss his hand, but simply a people who are unpleasant to see his love of money (love of luxury) and money-grubbing (dusty apartment, remember?).
        Quote: fyvaprold
        And the KGB ceased to exist in 1992, so what kind of representatives are we talking about

        As you know, there are no "former", and so, as recently as yesterday, comrade VVP, stood and was baptized together with Kirill ... (this is for example)
        Quote: fyvaprold
        It would be nice to get a link to the source (annalistic) about the rape of Rognedi to get, I wonder how the chronicler described it over 1000 years ago?

        It would be nice to get other links to the source, as everyone joyfully accepted the affairs of Vladimir, with baptism ...
        Quote: fyvaprold
        By the way, on "Rain", or for example Albats
        why should this m.r.a.p.o.t.u be mentioned here? request they don’t care where to shit, they have chronic incontinence ...
        1. lidiy
          lidiy 28 July 2015 14: 10
          +2
          not respected "patriarch", priests drunk on "cars"

          We often scold doctors, but does this mean that we refuse medical care? In this case, we just try to find a doctor who suits us, whom we trust.
          In the same way in the church. Do you want to justify your unbelief by the fact that priests are bad? And the priests, in your opinion, where do they come from? They that fly from Mars? No, they are people like us. With their good and bad aspects of character, they grow in the same environment as us.
          “And now, having abandoned primitive atheism, people invent other reasons why, as it seems to them, they cannot live like a Christian, they cannot come to the Church. If earlier they said: we do not believe in God and therefore do not walk, now they are already explaining their position differently. In our hearts, they say, we believe in God - we just don’t believe in the priests and therefore we don’t go to the Church. And in order to justify such a life, they begin to accuse the Church of thinkable and unthinkable sins and criticize for anything: why the Church Slavonic language? Why not sit? Why the old calendar? Why do you need to wear headscarves? And much more, etc. They say that they would come to the Church if they could fix it all - that is serve in Russian, switch to a new style, etc. But in reality, of course, this is not so, and even if you do everything as they want, these people will not come to Church. Like the capricious children from the Gospel parable, they again and again will find reasons to justify their disbeliefand rejection of the Church. "
          http://azbyka.ru/propovedi/v-nachale-bylo-slovo-sto-izbrannykh-propovedej.shtml#

          38_svjatoj_apostol_foma_o_vere_i_neverii
    5. Vend
      Vend 28 July 2015 10: 47
      +6
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      the big question is the identity of the "holy" prince Vladimir

      There is not a single question. Take any historical person, in any country, you will see the same. To create a single country requires a lot of strength and not the most specious deeds.
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      an interesting article with which I almost completely agree. even strange that it was placed on the VO-goes against paragraph (e) of the Rules))) for a sidelong glance towards the ROC-punished! and in the country there is a real "bust" with religion, not a respected "patriarch", priests drunk on "wheelbarrows", representatives of the KGB in the church, huge sums of money thrown into churches (obviously not donations), as it all strains! as
      as if, before the "baptism of Rus" and Rus that itself did not exist! we laugh at the Ukrainians, how they rewrite history, but they themselves have pretty much altered it, and the process continues. is not it so? request in general, the author is a plus, for a "dangerous" topic, and let him prepare for an anathema, which our believers will undoubtedly betray him ...

      Religiosity is also out of place here. What is wrong to perpetuate the memory of the person who makes Russia worth it? Pay attention to the west, from the once miserable Slavic civilization there were only crumbs in the form of puddles. The rest of all libles were cut out or assimilated. The Slavs believed in pagan gods, they squabbled among themselves, that's the result. And Vladimir wanted to bring everyone under one religion. Initially, the sanctuary set the pagan gods, but nothing happened. So he came to Orthodoxy. And the last Slavs of the pagans were christened in the 12 century, Yaroslav the Wise. Do not distort. A memorable date and holiday is a must. No one bothered to make this holiday secular. Made a church and okay.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 11: 30
        +1
        Quote: Wend
        thanks to which is Russia worth?

        where did you get the idea that "thanks"? would disappear without him? Russia was and will be, even in spite of!
        Quote: Wend
        The Slavs believed in pagan gods, they squabbled among themselves, that's the result.

        and then suddenly stopped! and now, do not bite ... yeah ...
        1. Vend
          Vend 28 July 2015 12: 03
          +5
          Quote: Andrew Y.
          Quote: Wend
          thanks to which is Russia worth?

          where did you get the idea that "thanks"? would disappear without him? Russia was and will be, even in spite of!
          Quote: Wend
          The Slavs believed in pagan gods, they squabbled among themselves, that's the result.

          and then suddenly stopped! and now, do not bite ... yeah ...

          Read the chronographs. Pay particular attention to the reaction of the church when Vladimir began to follow the precepts of Orthodoxy. How the clergy were indignant. I would like to draw your attention once again to the disappeared Slavic tribes in the west, there was no unification, as a result, only Lusatians remained, and even then a little. And then they stopped, the princes squabbled among themselves. As Metropolitan of St. Petersburg John (Snychev) figuratively put it, representatives of different Slavic tribes entered the baptismal font: Drevlyans, Polyana, Vyatichi, Krivichi ... A single Russian people emerged from the font. "
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 12: 09
            0
            [quote = Wend] [quote]Yes read the chronographs[/ quote] someone in the future will find "Ukrainian chronographs", read ... and will also defend their authenticity .. A single Russian people came out of the font. "
            .. anointed with Jewish faith ... okay, you can argue endlessly, we’ll end there, each with his own, the main thing is not to tear oneself ... lol
            1. Vend
              Vend 28 July 2015 13: 00
              +2
              [quote = Andrey Yuryevich] [quote = Wend] [quote]Yes read the chronographs[/ quote] someone in the future will find "Ukrainian chronographs", read ... and will also defend their authenticity .. A single Russian people came out of the font. "
              .. anointed with Jewish faith ... okay, you can argue endlessly, we’ll end there, each with his own, the main thing is not to tear oneself ... lol[/ Quote]
              I do not urge you to change your mind. I urge you to compare what happened before and after the adoption of Orthodoxy. I am not happy with many acts of the Orthodox Church. And if the Catholic Church had the courage to repent for the Crusades, the Orthodox did not have enough to repent for the destruction of the Slavic culture. But you need to face the truth, Russia from the adoption of Orthodoxy only won. But Jewish faith is Judaism, not Orthodoxy.
            2. Serg65
              Serg65 29 July 2015 10: 02
              +1
              Quote: Andrey Yurievich
              anointed by Jewish faith ..

              Andrey Yuryevich, Andrey Yuryevich! Reading your comments I considered you mature, smart and judicious! Well, why are you trying to dissuade in my views ??? recourse
              I'm sorry, and the founder of scientific communism, who is the nation ??
              And the venerable comrades Sverdlov, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Volodarsky, Steinberk, Yurovsky, Radek, Tomsky, Uritsky are really true Slavs ???
              And the Georgian surnames ending in shvili to whom to relate?
              Regarding the article ... through this entire opus, the version runs through the red line - Vladimir is insignificance, the Romanovs and Russia cannot be controlled by their own, only by newcomers! Rurik, or the Marxists!
              All this reminds me of the comrades of the Witnesses of Jehovah, the correct god is only with them, and the rest must be burned at the stake!
              Well, you do not believe in God, and okay! So still not peppered! Is Stalin a great man? Yes GREAT! Over the 1000 years of Orthodoxy, has Russia become a Great Empire? Yes, it has become! And what is fuss?
    6. Rus2012
      Rus2012 28 July 2015 11: 02
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      before the "baptism of Rus" and Russia, that itself was not! we laugh at the Ukrainians, how they rewrite history, but they themselves have pretty much altered it, and the process continues. is not it so?

      ... I would rather agree!
      He was on vacation at home - elements of the pre-Christian era are still visible in the rites.

      I met a fellow student who is seriously engaged in the pagan era of the Rusich origin - the Uruses from the Sarmatians, Scythians, Bulgar, Khazars ... up to the Sumerians.
      He says that Russian is not a nationality, but socionym. Most importantly, the genotype 1Ra, found in Russians, Germans, etc.
    7. smershxnumx
      smershxnumx 28 July 2015 11: 16
      0
      An "alternative look" to the "History of the Russian State"? Hmm ... well, I don't know how to react request
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. Ascetic
      Ascetic 28 July 2015 11: 25
      +10
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      as if, before the "baptism of Rus" and Rus that itself did not exist! we laugh at the Ukrainians, how they rewrite history, but they themselves have pretty much altered it, and the process continues. is not it so? in general, the author is a plus, for a "dangerous" topic, and let him prepare for an anathema, which our believers will undoubtedly betray him ...


      All this is so ... Here the author summarizes

      The fact that the Russian people had no choice, that it was necessary to adopt Christianity, that the Russians were “wild and backward people” before Christianization, is a fraud. The geopolitical enemies of the Russian people want to "cut off" Russian history. Allegedly, before the baptism of Russia, there was nothing good, continuous "dark ages."


      I agree one hundred percent ... I just want to emphasize some points ... All these disputes and information wars between neopaganism and official Orthodoxy / and after all we cannot forget the Old Believers / play into the hands of our enemies ... What is most important for us if we consider the concept Russian world as a whole? This is primarily the realization that the unity of the peoples of Russia is much more important for the country and much more dangerous for its enemies than internal strife for any reason. In the wake of interest in the Ancient Vedic Faith and its legacy bit by bit, various gurus and teachers appeared with ears clearly sticking out from behind the hillock. it is necessary to clearly separate the Ancient Knowledge itself and those people or organizations who, hiding behind them, are trying to solve their own, mundane tasks.
      This is the first thing I would like to note in this context ...
      The second thing that many do not think about and often ignore in their reasoning and conclusions regarding the Christianization of Russia is to understand naturalness and predestination of any historical processthat is, in the DIALECTICS of historical processes. From tribal unions at that time a single state and its elite began to form, which needed primarily to strengthen its own power and need state consolidation for a successful struggle with external enemies, in which Vera was assigned a significant role. Pagan cults for the most part lost their original Secret Knowledge at the time of baptism. The Vedic Faith completely degenerated into Paganism. Multiple cults dedicated to various gods, lost unity among themselves, got into fierce competition with each other, which led to the actual disintegration of a single Faith. And this primarily contributed to the victory of Christianity. That is why, IMHO, they could not unite to defend their Faith against the new God, to raise the people against the tyranny of the princely nobility and baptism "with fire and sword."
      Again, if we consider these processes within the framework of the unity of the Russian world and historical predestination, then, too, ORTHODOX in terms of ritualism and canons is a Western monotheistic religion, but in terms of spiritual content and its roots rests on the spiritual achievements of pre-Christian Slavic history. . In the same Catholicism or Islam, ancient Jewish lunar cults are the basis, in Orthodoxy, even in rites and traditions, there are elements of the Vedic ancient Slavic solar cults. It is these roots that created such a solid foundation of Christian Orthodoxy in our country. They allow him to resist for centuries any attempts to reform for the sake of the global forces of external pressure. That's why enemies of all stripes hate so much namely the Russian Orthodox Church.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 11: 59
        +1
        Ascetic
        Well, Stas ... you, as always ... clearly, reasonably ... as befits the Patriarch of the Military Review! yes Thank you! hi
      2. Libra
        Libra 28 July 2015 13: 47
        -5
        Ascetic, what kind of nonsense are you talking about at the end? with Orthodoxy there is no unity among the people - because there is a concept: "our faith is one correct, the rest should not exist" open the Bible, and the author writes that Orthodoxy will ignite a split between people believers of different religions, do not care what elements there are in solar or lunar - the main idea sow discord between people and pessimism - disbelief in oneself, from here it is not far to self-hatred and everyone else - sinners, they alone are correct
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 28 July 2015 15: 30
          +3
          Quote: Libra
          with Orthodoxy there is no unity among the people - because there is a concept: "our faith is one correct, the rest should not exist" open the Bible, and the author writes that Orthodoxy will ignite a split between people believers of different religions, do not care what elements there are in solar or lunar - the main idea sow discord between people and pessimism - disbelief in oneself, from here it is not far to self-hatred and everyone else - sinners, they alone are correct


          Since when did Orthodoxy stir up a split between people? Facts in the studio ... On the contrary, there existed the concept of Orthodox COMMUNITY or PEACE, a community based on the Orthodox faith was dominant in Russia. And the idea of ​​salvation does not in itself give rise to pessimism. On the contrary, many people turn to Faith precisely in difficult moments of life, not Seeing a way out except in turning to Vera, and as a result, staying in society and not degrading, drinking and looking for nothing. Communicate with believers, they don’t have any pessimism, on the contrary, I myself saw how Vera helps to overcome the painful suffering that I would like as an ordinary person probably would not have endured.
          In addition, it was in Orthodoxy that the ancient pagan rites and beliefs were preserved, which we observe even now. The table clearly illustrates the identity of many Christian and pagan dates, which suggests that Orthodoxy and paganism in Russia are the roots of one tree
          clickable.
          About
          "our faith is one correct, the rest should not exist"
          Патриарх Кирилл
          "Orthodoxy never incited its people, did not push them to deprive other peoples of freedom of religion. And this experience of religious tolerance was the basis for the formation of a multinational state. The Orthodox Church has never oppressed the Gentiles ".

          link
    10. Will
      Will 28 July 2015 11: 49
      +4
      As long as there are "slaves", you also need faith in the best, at least beyond the grave. At least some hope that they are not in vain tormented. And the slaves will be as long as there are masters - someone has to maintain the status of a master? Do the authorities need "novices"?
      Of course we need. Like the Army, by the way. The conclusion is that until people learn to understand equality, people will not have to expect any changes. And so that these changes are - to study, study and study again. There is no other way. YTD.
    11. Knight
      Knight 28 July 2015 12: 24
      +4
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      for a sidelong glance towards the ROC-punished! and in the country it is a real "bust" with religion, not a respected "patriarch", priests drunk on "cars", representatives of the KGB in the church, huge money poured into churches (obviously not donations)
      Orthodoxy alone doesn’t suit you? But what about Islam, Buddhism, Judaism? Tell us how things are going there or your gut is thin, can you just pour mud on Orthodoxy?
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 20: 57
        0
        Quote: Knight
        Orthodoxy alone doesn’t suit you? But what about Islam, Buddhism, Judaism? Tell us how things are going there or your gut is thin, can you just pour mud on Orthodoxy?

        Well, I didn’t pour mud, what I said was facts. and as for the other religions, believe me, I’m not interested in what and how, I don’t know and don’t want to know, because there are no representatives around me.
  2. Days
    Days 28 July 2015 06: 28
    +10
    An article without reference to the source, which criticizes the prevailing view of historians on Prince Vladimir? Yes, for such a thing, you, the author, would become a famous and respected person among historians, if of course there would be primary sources, and not just notions presented in the form of short statements that do not stand objections.

    And yes, the "legend" about Vladimir's love of love has also been discussed for a long time: "the legend of Vladimir's love for women, being the latest insertion into the oldest annalistic code, is not confirmed by other news and is not plausible; it is compiled by analogy with the biblical story of Solomon and life of Vladimir ".
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 28 July 2015 08: 32
      +9
      Quote: Dagen
      An article without reference to the source, which criticizes the prevailing view of historians on Prince Vladimir?

      Yes, this is normal with Samsonov. I generally rarely comment on his articles, because there are many speculations at the level of Fomenko, Nosovsky, Zadornov and Bebik (save and save).
      Quote: Dagen
      Russia could successfully maintain its traditional faith. This did not interfere with the development of spiritual and material culture (example of Japan, China and India)

      The level of development of self-isolated countries was appropriate. And the consequences of this often affect so far.
      1. Alex uhu
        Alex uhu 28 July 2015 12: 11
        +1
        I agree, do not forget, friends, that India was a colony, and China a semi-colony. Without a universal ideology, it is impossible to create an empire.
    2. Darkness
      Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 34
      -1
      Also about Olga. Where there is fiction, and where is the truth - you can’t figure it out.
  3. svp67
    svp67 28 July 2015 06: 32
    +12
    There are a lot of "contradictory" personalities in our history, but monuments to them have already been erected, and will continue to be erected, since here their contribution to the history of the country is assessed more, and not their personal weaknesses. And the fact that Prince Vladimir became the one who turned my history, and of several other countries, to a NEW path of development, I think no one doubts. So that he deserves a monument. That would be REMEMBERED.
    In general, it is symbolic that people with the name Vladimir, so many times, abruptly changed the path of development of the Fatherland.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 06: 58
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      In general, it is symbolic that people with the name Vladimir, so many times, abruptly changed the path of development of the Fatherland.

      and people named Joseph changed the history of the world .. wink
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 28 July 2015 07: 13
        +4
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        and people named Joseph changed the history of the world ..

        And also by the way were not without sin. All the same, people and not gods.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 07: 50
          -1
          Quote: Jack-B
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          and people named Joseph changed the history of the world ..

          And also by the way were not without sin. All the same, people and not gods.

          What is the sin of the apostle of Joseph? wassat(minus is not an answer)
    2. Mihail29
      Mihail29 28 July 2015 08: 23
      0
      In general, it is symbolic that people with the name Vladimir, so many times, abruptly changed the path of development of the Fatherland.

      Yes, it is very accurately noticed, only in which direction.
  4. strelets
    strelets 28 July 2015 06: 33
    +16
    Indeed, we must clearly understand that before Orthodoxy in Russia, they did not go in the shoes. In Europe, the darkest centuries came just under Catholicism. I mean the Crusades, the Inquisition, and so on. So everything must be critical and have a head on shoulders.
  5. igorra
    igorra 28 July 2015 06: 38
    +22
    Although Orthodox, but wildly cuts his ears when our patriarch begins to blaspheme pagan Russia and glorify Christian, it seems that the roots are not Russian and therefore our ancestors, who built the state in those days, are not his ancestors. I, that following his logic, should abandon the father of an atheist? Christianity cut off a couple of millennia from the history of Russia at least. Just think, Rurik came to the forest, gathered tribes dressed in skins and founded the state, and as a wave of a magic wand several hundred cities arose. Sometimes you just need to stop and add two plus two and it becomes clear where four and where five.
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 28 July 2015 07: 25
      +8
      You misinterpret the patriarch. He blasphemes not paganism and atheism, but the darkness and lack of faith. My father is also an atheist, but he is not without faith. He believes the truth is not in God but in honest and decent people. IMHO.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 07: 54
        +2
        Quote: Jack-B
        He believes the truth is not in God but in honest and decent people. IMHO.

        Sorry Zhen, but in modern times, this is more like gullibility ... request but in general: "who believes in Mohammed, who in Allah, then in Jesus, who does not believe in anything, even in spite of everything ..." the matter in my opinion is purely personal, and it is not necessary to impose. (also IMHO)
        1. Mareman Vasilich
          Mareman Vasilich 28 July 2015 09: 48
          +1
          That's right, but they are planting us from the school bench today, that's what is dangerous.
      2. Darkness
        Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 13
        +2
        Lack of faith in supernatural beings - is it dark?
      3. Per se.
        Per se. 28 July 2015 08: 25
        +5
        Quote: Jack-B
        My father is also an atheist, but he is not without faith. He believes the truth is not in God but in honest and decent people.
        Faith was given to man from the very beginning, and there is great power in it. Another thing is that religion began to use faith long ago, and religion is not a synonym for faith, as many people identify. Popular speculation that "there are no atheists in the trenches" makes one think about religion, not about the original faith. Even faith in God directly is hardly the same in the representation of different people of the same religion, and even more so in different religious denominations. We can agree with the author of the article that the strengthening of the role of the church can aggravate relations in our multinational society. It is already a reality, on the one hand, the number of Orthodox churches is increasing, on the other, the number of minarets with mosques is increasing. The church should be separated from the state, as was the case in the USSR, and if we speak in good conscience, pay taxes on its financial activities. If we are to develop faith in our people, then it should unite them in love for their homeland and neighbors, and not divide them along religious lines. Religions change, come and go, faith remains, and it must be good and pure. The government should be concerned with such a single "religion", and not with the fact that the people endure, suffer, and hope for bliss in the other world, dividing along ethnic and religious lines.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 15
          0
          Quote: Per se.
          If we really develop faith in our people, then it should unite them in love for our Motherland and our neighbors, and not be divided according to religious grounds. Religions change, come and go, faith remains, and it must be good and pure.

          PLUS, Sergey! You can’t say better! hi
      4. Mareman Vasilich
        Mareman Vasilich 28 July 2015 09: 46
        +5
        Faith and religion are two different things. I am also an atheist, but I believe. And the current religion in Russia, in the person of the Russian Orthodox Church, simply kills and drags the country down, degrades. Regression of the nation, here is its credo.
    2. Vasya Steklomoev
      Vasya Steklomoev 28 July 2015 07: 38
      0
      All right! Thank!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Penzuck
      Penzuck 28 July 2015 08: 02
      -8
      Quote: igorra
      Though Orthodox,
      - It happens to everyone.
      Quote: igorra
      wildly cuts his ears when our patriarch begins to blaspheme pagan Russia
      PLEASANT REFERENCE ...
      Quote: igorra
      that the roots are not Russian and therefore our ancestors,

      It will surprise you, but not all the ancestors of modern Russians are "Russian", so your writings are simply upsetting ...
      Quote: igorra
      building a state in those days, not its ancestors

      And what is "state"? Over there, in Papua New Guinea, a presidential candidate was greeted - DEMOCRACY ... STATE ...
      Quote: igorra
      I, that following his logic, should abandon the father of an atheist?
      - This is your logic. If you remember - there is a commandment about parents ...
      Quote: igorra
      Christianity cut off a couple of millennia from the history of Russia

      Arab historians ibn Faladan, and others for some reason, "the funeral of the king of the Rus" in such monstrous details describe that, involuntarily, you will doubt the mind of the "builders" of the state ...
      Quote: igorra
      several hundred cities
      - what is a "city"? In ancient times, one meaning, now it is different ... Our climate is harsh, which means slower population growth and therefore small settlements ... And that means how 90% of the population lived in dugouts with a bull bubble for 1 window ... and lived like that.
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 15
        0
        Most lived this way in Orthodox Russia. Up to the 20th century.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. bastard
        bastard 28 July 2015 16: 09
        0
        Quote: Penzuck
        Quote: igorra
        wildly cuts his ears when our patriarch begins to blaspheme the pagan Russia PJAULUST LINK ...

        Please!
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 29 July 2015 09: 06
          0
          What specific phrases do not suit you?
          Quote: villain
          Please!

          What did the patriarch say? what already cuts the ear? Obvious things?
          "Does it really hurt your eyes"?
        2. Hleb
          Hleb 29 July 2015 10: 52
          +2
          you bastard, you tryndets what a dumbass. From whom are you idiots trying to do here by scribbling this shit? Without protecting either one or the other, I can say one and a half dumbass. how can you not understand Russian so much, don’t understand. when a person in the third person describes a historical event and cut out the words from the context, and then present them as a full-fledged monologue? "we are almost cannibals, savages"
          it you called us almost savages? cannibals? how dare you so dare?

          watching the video, further ears were blocked, or eyes were covered?
          1. bastard
            bastard 29 July 2015 12: 08
            -1
            Quote: Penzuck
            What did the patriarch say? what already cuts the ear? Obvious things?
            "Does it really hurt your eyes"?

            1. What the patriarch said, he said so. The word is not a sparrow.
            2. The patriarch is not the last person in the state. As they say, it is one of the most intelligent and educated people in the country, therefore it is obliged to filter every word, to express itself so that different interpretations are impossible. Speech and answers to questions need to be prepared and coordinated (it was not a live broadcast, it could be viewed, rewritten and edited, eliminating flaws, this is standard practice in the media), because the words and expressions of people of this rank and dignity are massively parse into quotes and replicated in the masses of the people, otherwise an opportunity is possible.
            3. True eyes do not hurt. hi
            Quote: Gleb
            you bastard, you tryndets what a dumbass. From whom are you idiots trying to do here by scribbling this shit? Without protecting either one or the other, I can say one and a half dumbass. how you can’t understand Russian so much, don’t understand. when a person in the third person describes a historical event and cut out words from the context,

            My dear Gleb! Are we already on "you"? Since when, may I ask?
            Based on your comment I read, I came to the conclusion that you are a highly educated, cultured and well-mannered person. In addition, as far as I understand, you are fluent in such a subject as "Russian language", so to speak. Almost. Let us attribute insignificant mistakes in your message to haste and agitation, my young friend. Another time, try to keep yourself in control and not get overexcited, Comrade Marshal, because you, as far as I dare to guess, are a representative of the stronger sex, that is, a man. So behave with dignity of a man, and not like a male, sorry.
            Do you really consider my words a "sketch"? As I understand it, a platform has been formed here for the expression and exchange of views, which, alas, may not always coincide with your point of view. Well, you can't be so killed! If I hurt you somewhere, then excuse me, I'm getting old and our views probably have significant differences.
            Quote: Gleb
            and let me quote you in the following spirit (pulling it out of your kament): "we are almost cannibals, savages"
            it you called us almost savages? cannibals? how dare you so dare?

            And really taken out of context. And the patriarch spoke not only from a third party, but also on behalf of the ROC, of ​​which he is the main representative.
            And finally: I am not your enemy.
            All the best!

            PS:
            Put the pluses to both to draw attention to my answer.
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 29 July 2015 12: 45
              +2
              Well, duck and I'm not an enemy, if honestly communicate. just by observing such moments, it seems that a person naturally trolls. Well, you can find serious arguments, criticize (by the way, I myself did not disdain criticism in both directions) in the case, but not at the same moments to confuse opponents?
              here you need to try very hard to take Cyril's words as an argument, especially assuming an insult to the Slavs.
              about spelling, I know, and I can write correctly, but often intentionally I write this way (when at work between things, when for another reason), as for example, start a sentence with a lowercase letter. for me, the thought itself is more important, which, for example, can mislead people. Or, on the contrary, it will open up new, interesting points.
              By the way, my opinion is that the Patriarch speaks very accessible and competently that few people can still do without a piece of paper in our country
              1. bastard
                bastard 29 July 2015 13: 49
                +2
                Quote: Gleb
                just by observing such moments, it seems that a person naturally trolls.

                Thanks for the feedback.
                This is not trolling. The fact is that I have a good library, mostly books from the Soviet period. My opinion and worldview is formed on the basis of what I have read in these publications (I like to read, this is my problem). I don’t want to give the list, it’s quite long. Judging by your reaction, you are young (I could be wrong) and other stereotypes are embedded in your consciousness than in mine. If I was not mistaken in assessing the age difference in our country, then this is just a "generational conflict", a common thing. Do not worry. It's okay.
                Quote: Gleb
                here you need to try very hard to take Cyril's words as an argument, especially assuming an insult to the Slavs.

                Someone asked for a link, and I posted part of the video. Who cares - can watch the whole movie. And yet, in my opinion, even though I am far from the patriarch, he should be a hundred prudent in public speaking, otherwise, God forbid, a careless phrase can cause a split in society. I repeat once again: the patriarch is not just the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, but also one of the first persons in the state (historically so), to whose opinion tens of millions of people listen, and then repeat. Weigh every word!
                Quote: Gleb
                By the way, my opinion is that the Patriarch speaks very accessible and competently that few people can still do without a piece of paper in our country

                I can not mind.
                hi
                1. Penzuck
                  Penzuck 30 July 2015 07: 14
                  0
                  Quote: villain
                  Someone asked for a link, and I posted part of the video.

                  That was me personally ... Well, since you think that I am Someone ... Dear, we are not lying on the censor ...
                  And once they messed up, then don't hide behind the words "I'm not your enemy", but answer ...
            2. Penzuck
              Penzuck 30 July 2015 07: 11
              0
              Quote: villain
              And really taken out of context.

              Just say so - "I hurried, I got it right, I was wrong, I posted the first video I saw, forgive the uncle of the little" villain "."
    5. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 28 July 2015 09: 44
      +7
      That's right, comrade. This is our story, no matter what it is, it is ours. And the fact that Patriarch Kirill was raving at the festival of Slavic culture "Russian Field" was simply unbearable to listen to. You begin to become even more convinced why the church in the USSR was generally not allowed either to power or to the media. For they can twist the brains of people in such a way that you cannot twist it in decades.
    6. Cresta999
      Cresta999 28 July 2015 10: 17
      +1
      I fully support! All of my Native comes from my ancestors, and not from those who came up with this or that faith. But to me, in fact, they propose to believe that people who gathered a huge territory in my Motherland, people who invented a bathhouse and knew everything about the economy and nature — my ancestors are uneducated monkeys who became people only because the Greeks froze them dragged another faith! I'm also a Christian by the way.
      1. Mareman Vasilich
        Mareman Vasilich 30 July 2015 09: 54
        0
        For this they hate us, the fact that we have always been hardworking, neat and tidy, smart depending on the time, of course.
    7. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 10: 27
      +3
      Quote: igorra
      Christianity cut off a couple of millennia from the history of Russia at least.

      Correct a little: not a couple of millennia, but at least five and a half.
      According to the Slavic calendar, 7523 summers from the creation of the world are now on.
      Moreover, "the creation of the world" is not the construction of the solar system and the population of our earth with people. "Creation of the world" is the signing of a peace treaty, analogous to the 70th anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War.
      By the way, the numbers of the Slavs were written in letters with the title (az = 1, lead = 2 ...), therefore, our writing is also no less than 7523 years.
      It seems that the believers did not touch any feelings (maybe, except for the fans of the "creators" of Russian writing, Cyril and Methodius).
      1. Irbis
        Irbis 28 July 2015 10: 49
        +5
        Sorry, but this is some kind of Fomenkovism. The original source can be the fact that it is the Old Slavic calendar, but somehow this figure very much resembles the Byzantine calendar, adopted in the 6 century of our era. Which Slavs enjoyed after baptism.

        Why invent some kind of conspiracy theory about some calendars and supposedly forgotten history? They adopted Christianity - they switched to the Byzantine calendar, they decided to open a window to Europe, they switched to the European calendar from the birth of Christ. What is the secret here? If we reason like that, then let’s abandon the standardized metric system and begin measuring again with elbows and versts.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 12: 48
          +2
          Quote: Irbis
          It is possible the primary source to the fact that this is the ancient Slavonic reckoning, or somehow this figure very much resembles the Byzantine reckoning adopted in the 6th century AD. Which the Slavs used after baptism

          And can the primary source be that it is the Byzantine reckoning adopted in the 6th century AD?
          Because after baptism, everyone (not only the Slavs) used the chronology "from the birth of Christ", and not the pagan "Byzantine" one.
          1. ivankursk46
            ivankursk46 28 July 2015 13: 10
            0
            The article links to sources
            http://w-okkam.blogspot.ru/2015/07/blog-post_20.html
            1. Irbis
              Irbis 28 July 2015 22: 45
              0
              Read your link. Although I am not alone think so))))
          2. Irbis
            Irbis 28 July 2015 15: 18
            +2
            Are you a Jew, answer a question with a question?
            I will give a reference to Wikipedia, and you already further yourself somehow. There are links to sources below.

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D
            0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%8D%D1%80%D0
            % B0
            The era of Constantinople, the Byzantine era, the old Russian era, “from Adam”, the March style — the chronology system “From the Creation of the World”, which Orthodox theologians belonged to Friday - the sixth day of creation, calculated according to the Septuagint as 1 in March 5508 BC. e., and later as Saturday 1 September 5509 year BC. er (September style). Starting from the 7th century, it gradually became the current chronological system in the Byzantine Empire and throughout the Orthodox world, for example, in Serbia and Bulgaria. It was used, in particular, in Russian chronicles (with some errors in 1 — 2 of the year related to the dates of the first day of the new year and other problems), as well as in Russia in general until the calendar reform of Peter I in 1700.


            As your answer, please do not send fantasies of various bloggers parasitizing on the history of the ancient Slavs, as well as links to pseudo-historical reenactors.
      2. Leonid1976
        Leonid1976 28 July 2015 12: 01
        +1
        Strongly hurt the feelings of professional historians and people who are interested in stories in general. Recyclable sources in the studio. And so it's just tales.
      3. Uncle Joe
        Uncle Joe 28 July 2015 14: 54
        +4
        Quote: Perun's grandson
        According to the Slavic calendar, 7523 summer from the creation of the world is now
        It is from the creation of Adam - this is the pre-Petrine chronology of Christian Old Believers.
    8. The comment was deleted.
  6. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 07: 02
    +5
    only before our eyes, the whole world’s history is already turning inside out, and now the new generation in Ukraine doesn’t remember kinship, and the Americans win the Second World War, the Japanese are sure that the Russians handed Hiroshima ... So, can you really believe in History? If she was always treated so freely?
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 28 July 2015 07: 20
      +4
      Those who do not believe anything jump.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 22
        0
        Quote: Jack-B
        Those who do not believe anything jump.

        Well, this is sarcasm, (well-deserved), but in fact my question?
    2. puppet
      puppet 28 July 2015 12: 09
      +2
      I fully support. The theme raised by the author is very ungrateful. in Russia, everyone believes what they want, they do not force anyone to celebrate other people's holidays, and such evil articles only incite hatred.
  7. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 28 July 2015 07: 05
    +7
    The article is biased. The author clearly has a negative attitude towards Christianity and approves of the Stalinist USSR, while forgetting that even Stalin, starting from 1943, provided support to the Orthodox Church. And speaking of the alleged "first civil war" the author does not say that before Vladimir, blood was shed in pagan Rus repeatedly - Askold and Dir, Prince Igor and Olga's revenge on the Drevlyans ... And Vladimir's father, Prince Svyatoslav, was killed by the Pechenegs not least because of the betrayal of the Kiev boyars. The example of Japan is unconvincing - it was saved from colonial occupation only by the lack of resources that can be siphoned out of the country. Russia, on the other hand, developed harmoniously after the adoption of Christianity and in many respects surpassed Europe. Those who want to know more about this, I would recommend reading Valery Shambarov's remarkable study "Holy Russia against barbarian Europe". This book provides a comparative study of Russia and Europe in the 17th century. The result of the comparison should be said not in favor of Europe.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 28 July 2015 07: 51
      +2
      You do not forget much that in paganism it was not considered shameful to shed the blood of others. And wars between adherents of one or another cult did not carry mass destruction of the temple. But with the birth of the cult of Christ, the temples were destroyed and those who did not accept the faith were ruthlessly destroyed, here you have the civil war, a different ideology.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 28 July 2015 13: 29
        +3
        Quote: Nehist
        You do not forget much that in paganism it was not considered shameful to shed the blood of others. And wars between adherents of one or another cult did not carry mass destruction of the temple. But with the birth of the cult of Christ, the temples were destroyed and those who did not accept the faith were ruthlessly destroyed, here you have the civil war, a different ideology.


        This is a bit wrong. We seek to impose this point of view from the outside. Like the Ancient Faith and Orthodoxy, COMMUNITY or PEACE lay at the base. Which, incidentally, has been deliberately destroyed for more than 100 years since the Stolypin reforms, replacing the ideology of Western individualism.
        Obviously, the struggle of paganism with Christianity was not expressed in an active struggle, but rather in the preservation of the old pagan beliefs along with the new Christian faith. Christianity, with its social nature of worship, did not prevent people from observing family rituals of their ancestors in their home life. Therefore, in Russia, Christianity and paganism mixed in the popular consciousness. Little does anyone know that the period of the beginning of the Christianization of Russia is called DOUBLE FAITH. Now this is the concept of "folk religion".
        As hieromonk John (Kologrivov) wrote, a Russian Catholic, a member of the Jesuit order, who read in the middle of the XNUMXth century. lectures at the Pontifical Oriental Institute in Rome,
        “The names of the pagan gods and the very memory of them were torn from the Russian soul, but nonetheless Christianity always managed to root its dogmas and beliefs in it. Gospel doctrine and ancient pagan ideas are located one above the other, and this situation has not disappeared to this day. Not only did the people keep pagan rites in some places, but the very spirit of polytheism under Christian appearance; or, more clearly, Russian folk Christianity is a kind of pagan Christianity, where polytheism is represented by beliefs, and Christianity is a cult ”

        In my opinion, you can’t say better.

        In general, a feature of Russian Christianity was tolerance in relation to the traditions of ancient Russia. The introduction of Christianity in Russia was carried out in a milder way than, for example, in the West, where attempts to completely eradicate religious customs led only to many years of religious wars, which were not in Russia, except for the very moment of the baptism of Novgorod Dobrynya, and even then to the European a religious war with mass genocide and the burning of heretics on bonfires does not pull it. and the disappearance of certain cultural strata. Let us recall the religious orders, crusades and Christianization of America with mass genocide of the population

        The Orthodox Church did not destroy some pagan rites. The church invested Christian content in them. So, the holiday of Kolyada merged with Christmas and Baptism. The holiday of Maslenitsa has also been preserved, which until now is celebrated before Lent.
        But the main thing is that under the influence of Orthodoxy the Russian character has changed, ideas about man and his place in society, about nature and God.

        Thanks to the new faith, the fragmented associations of the Eastern Slavs rallied. And this, ultimately, led to the formation of the Old Russian nationality.

        link
    2. Darkness
      Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 55
      0
      Is it possible to find out the number of scientists in Europe, that time and in Russia?
    3. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 28 July 2015 12: 06
      0
      Excerpt
      greatly exaggerated and was caused primarily by the massive opening of churches in the occupied territories by the Germans. It was still not enough for the Germans to create their own patriarchy, and this does not cancel the fact of the death of tens of thousands (at least) of priests (including hierarchs) in the camps.
      1. Uncle Joe
        Uncle Joe 28 July 2015 15: 03
        +1
        Quote: Leonid1976
        the fact of the death of tens of thousands (at least) of priests (including hierarchs) in the camps.
        1 If this is a fact, then factual material should be available - a link to the documents, please.

        2 What article of the Criminal Code is such that it did not condemn criminals (including those who had the dignity at the time of the commission of the crime), namely priests and patriarchs?
    4. Uncle Joe
      Uncle Joe 28 July 2015 14: 57
      +1
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      Starting from 1943, Stalin supported the Orthodox Church
      And what was this support expressed in?
    5. kalibr
      kalibr 29 July 2015 18: 42
      0
      It is especially interesting to get acquainted with the confessional canons of the Russian Orthodox Church, for which there is an interesting material in the magazine RODINA - Fornication happens every ...
  8. Knight
    Knight 28 July 2015 07: 05
    -1
    1.
    Quote: Samsonov
    Firstly, the course toward churching the people will not lead to anything good. It will only intensify the split of the people. An example should be taken from Soviet society of the period 1930-1950s (taking into account errors), which was truly unified.
    Samsonov seems to be an atheist, so naturally he does not see any meaning in religion, the legs of his confusion stick out from here. He talks about unity, but unity in what? Actually in spirituality and confusion. Isn’t this unity led the country to collapse when it lost religious and spiritual guidelines, the people (members of the Communist Party, the KGB, the army, the militia as well) essentially betrayed their country? Now save us from such unity. There is no split of the people in its churching, which could lead to a split of society and the state, will, we don’t have to scare us with stupidities. Christianity always plays a state-cementing role, and Orthodoxy has a great positive experience of coexistence with Islam and Buddhism.
    Quote: Samsonov
    irreversible rollback, archaization
    A rollback to the past is a return to the primitive and naive materialism professed by the first rational beings. Modern world religions are the fruit of many thousands of years of work by many saints and prophets. 2.Vladimir the hero only because Christianity went from Russia to him. How Vladimir was during his lifetime, at what cost Christianization of Russia was given is another question. If he was elevated to the rank of saints by the Orthodox Church, then there must be reason for this, the question is an internal affair of the church itself; Samsonov should not care.
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 28 July 2015 07: 16
      +1
      Quote: Knight
      Samsonov seems to be an atheist

      The question is rather not in atheism, but simply in the rottenness of character. It is disgusting for a person to see how a nation is reassembling under the same banners as centuries ago. If they had gathered under the banner of Stalin, then Stalin would have begun to harass.
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 28 July 2015 07: 44
        +3
        Are you a religious fanatic? I’m not an atheist, but a pagan, and somehow I don’t notice that people are striving under the banner of the church. In Russia, the church has not once discriminated against itself, as many miss this moment
        1. Terner38
          Terner38 28 July 2015 08: 11
          +7
          So walk a year or two — another in a church that is being restored or erected, which is erected with communal money (not without the help of the dioceses), participate with your hands and your soul — then you can understand what role the Orthodox faith plays in the unity of the country and people. By the way, you will see that part of the people that I never noticed, and, believe me, it is considerable, but the truth is quiet, and therefore inconspicuous.
          1. Darkness
            Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 37
            +2
            It would be better if these communities raised money for a new kindergarten. Or school.
            1. Terner38
              Terner38 28 July 2015 08: 56
              +7
              Quite right noticed, dear! It was my son who now graduated from the third grade of the Orthodox gymnasium of the city of Kovrov. Absolutely ordinary school, without. cultivating religious fanatics. But it is only located in the former destroyed and ... kindergarten, restored at the expense of churches, far from Moscow and far from rich. And all additional classes there are free, the children are at home for extended hours. So the lack of information or the unwillingness to receive it is a problem for the people themselves. Photo, by the way, on my profile picture - from a performance in this school.
              1. Darkness
                Darkness 28 July 2015 09: 02
                -1
                And what subjects are included in the program of this institution?
          2. Nehist
            Nehist 28 July 2015 10: 24
            -1
            Yes, imagine walking and know what I understood for myself? So this is what clerics who truly believe are a negligible percentage. For the most part they are opportunists.
      2. Darkness
        Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 22
        -3
        Under what banners? Really "autocracy", "Orthodoxy", nationality "?
      3. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 50
        -2
        Quote: Jack-B
        The question is rather not in atheism, but simply in the rottenness of character. It is disgusting for a person to see how a nation is reassembling under the same banners as centuries ago.

        do not give out what you wish for as valid ... several hundred thousand, even several million, not a nation ...
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 07: 29
      +4
      ,
      did the people (employees of the Communist Party, the KGB, the army, the militia including) essentially betrayed their country?
      the people did not betray their country. The people were against the collapse of the USSR, see the results of the referendum:
      CENTRAL REFERENDUM COMMISSION REPORTS
      The question was put to the popular vote (referendum):
      “Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which human rights and freedoms of any nationality will be fully guaranteed.”
      ... The Central Referendum Commission of the USSR established:
      For the USSR as a whole:
      The lists of citizens eligible to participate in the referendum of the USSR included 185 647 355 people; 148 574 606 people, or 80,0%, participated in the vote.
      From them answered:
      “Yes” - 113 512 812 people, or 76,4%;
      “No” - 32 people, or 303%;
      Void - 2 757 817 ballots, or 1,9%.
      Referendum results in some republics:
      Republic: "YES" (in%) / "NO" (in%)
      RSFSR 71,3 / 26,4
      Ukrainian SSR 70,2 / 28,0
      Byelorussian SSR 82,7 / 16,1
      Uzbek SSR 93,7 / 5,2
      Chechen-Ingush SSR75,9 / 22,6
      Yakut SSR 76,7 / 21,6
      From the message of the Central Referendum Commission of the USSR on the results of the USSR referendum held on March 17, 1991
      .If he was elevated to the rank of saints by the Orthodox Church, then there must be reason for this ...
      Quote: Knight
      If he was elevated to the rank of saints by the Orthodox Church, then there must be reason for this ...

      I beg of you! who just have not been elevated to the rank of saints! foundations are always found ... wassat
      1. Knight
        Knight 28 July 2015 07: 48
        -2
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        .national people was against the collapse of the USSR, see the results of the referendum:
        I know the results of the referendum. The people came to the referendum, but did nothing to save the country (first of all, I mean members of the Communist Party, employees of the KGB and senior army officers).
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        I beg of you! who just have not been elevated to the rank of saints! foundations are always found.
        Why is it infuriating you? This is an internal affair of the Russian Orthodox Church.
        1. Darkness
          Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 23
          +3
          This is their own internal affair, they endure on social, secular life.
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 54
          -1
          Quote: Knight
          Why is it infuriating you? This is an internal affair of the Russian Orthodox Church.

          mind you, it is you who are losing patience, not me ... where is your "tolerance"? laughing
          1. Knight
            Knight 28 July 2015 12: 15
            +2
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            mind you, it is you who are losing patience, not me ... where is your "tolerance"?
            There is no need to unjustifiably argue the opponent’s argument against him. Here are your words, which contain obscurantism:
            Quote: Andrey Yurievich
            and in the country there is a real "bust" with religion, not a respected "patriarch", priests drunk on "wheelbarrows", representatives of the KGB in the church, huge sums of money thrown into churches (obviously not donations), as it all strains! as
            as if, before the "baptism of Rus" and Rus that itself did not exist!
      2. Anatole Klim
        Anatole Klim 28 July 2015 10: 38
        0
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        Chechen-Ingush SSR75,9 / 22,6
        Yakut SSR 76,7 / 21,6

        Andrey Yurievich! what source do you use. There is no doubt about the numbers, but the Chechen-Ingush SSR, the Yakut SSR have always been autonomous in the RSFSR, and here you are equated with the Union Byelorussian SSR and the Uzbek SSR. Is everything so forgotten.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Knight
      Knight 28 July 2015 07: 35
      0
      Quote: Samsonov
      The baptism of Russia is not a completely positive fact,
      From the point of view of geopolitics, the Christianization of Europe really actively proceeded at that time. The issue of faith was an important marker in the relationship between different states, and strengthened the legitimacy of the highest state power.
      Quote: Samsonov
      That is, paganism was not an obstacle to military victories and unity of the Slavic-Russian tribes
      Does anyone say the opposite? Samsonov came up with the argument of his opponents and denied the argument himself.
      Quote: Samsonov
      However, this does not prevent them from developing and being successful powers in which many experts see the future of all mankind
      Another nonsense. At first, he claims this, and then makes a reservation that he had in mind only spiritual tradition. By development, they primarily understand the development of civilization, scientific and technological progress, the growth of well-being of citizens, but at Samsonov everything is mixed up as usual with complicated people.
      Quote: Samsonov
      traditional beliefs allow Asian peoples to maintain their "I", receive nourishment through the roots and go to the future. India, China and Japan can rely on their traditional faith,
      Christianity did not erase Russian national culture, there was only a replacement for the religious matrix. Orthodoxy is the result of a synthesis of Russian national, religious culture and Byzantine Christianity.
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 24
        -2
        Give a definition of who the "Orthodox" is.
      2. BMW
        BMW 28 July 2015 10: 05
        -1
        Quote: Knight
        First of all, development is understood as the development of civilization, scientific and technological progress, the growth of well-being of citizens,


        This has a very mediocre relationship to the development of civilization. Because the key here is information exchange, and in what way they achieve it does not matter.
        Civilization (from lat. Civilis - civil, state):
        general philosophical significance - the social form of the motion of matter, ensuring its stability and the ability to self-development through self-regulation of exchange with the environment (human civilization on the scale of the cosmic device);
        1. Knight
          Knight 28 July 2015 12: 20
          0
          Quote: bmw
          This has a very mediocre relationship to the development of civilization.
          Religion has a "mediocre" relation to the development of civilization? Don't be ridiculous. It was within the framework of Christian countries that the formation of science and the scientific and technological process took place. Information exchange is facilitated between peoples professing the same religion.
          1. Uncle Joe
            Uncle Joe 28 July 2015 15: 21
            +2
            Quote: Knight
            It was within the framework of Christian countries that the formation of science and the scientific and technological process
            Only the scientific achievements of the previous period were previously destroyed (we look at architectural monuments that cannot be created without a decent level of mathematics, geometry, etc.)

            And only half a millennium after the beginning of the dominance of Christianity, science began to revive within the church, since it was the church that retained the monopoly on knowledge (which in secular society was purposefully cleaned up), and the dignity became the only defense against accusations of witchcraft, relations with the devil, etc. delirium.
            1. Knight
              Knight 29 July 2015 17: 22
              0
              Quote: Uncle Joe
              Only previously were the scientific achievements of the previous period destroyed
              Did Christians across Europe destroy scientific books, execute and persecute scientists, shut down universities? If all this really took place, science would never have appeared in Europe. Don’t bring rubbish. The defeat of the Christian Western Roman Empire by Germanic tribes, their domination in Europe and determined the offensive dark ages.
              1. Uncle Joe
                Uncle Joe 29 July 2015 19: 43
                0
                Quote: Knight
                Did Christians across Europe destroy scientific books, execute and persecute scientists, and shut down universities?
                Something like this.

                If all this really took place, science in Europe never appeared
                But it alone (without a church that usurped the right to knowledge) did not appear (knowledge was burned out in a secular field)

                The defeat of the Christian Western Roman Empire by Germanic tribes, their dominance in Europe and determined the onset of the dark ages.
                The Germans only completed what they started (Christianity was legalized in 313, after the year 350 began to smash the pagans, and the territory began to fall off from the empire, in 410 the Goths captured Rome, 455 vandals, and by 530 the empire was gone)
                1. Knight
                  Knight 30 July 2015 01: 50
                  0
                  Quote: Uncle Joe
                  Something like this.
                  About how? And is that your whole answer? laughing It would be better if you didn’t write anything. You are not able to prove your crazy ideas, so write nonsense. There was no total suppression of science by Christianity - this is a myth of naive atheists designed for the same limited subjects. Secular universities existed all over Europe perfectly well, in the scientific environment of which science was formed.
                  Quote: Uncle Joe
                  The Germans just completed what they started
                  What started only the Germans completed? Can you give more details? I’ll laugh at least still at your imagination.
                  1. Uncle Joe
                    Uncle Joe 30 July 2015 04: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Knight
                    About how?
                    Something like this - "Christians all over Europe destroyed scientific books, executed and persecuted scientists, closed universities"

                    And is that all your answer?
                    Yes.

                    You are your crazy ideas
                    This is probably in fulfillment of the words "do not judge so you will not be judged" (Matt. 7.1), which is very Christian smile

                    unable to prove
                    In what year of the Middle Ages period was built something similar in complexity and scale to the Colosseum or Pantheon?

                    There was no total suppression of science by Christianity.
                    What are some names of medieval scholars (before the 10th century) who are not affiliated with the church?

                    Secular universities perfectly existed.
                    from the 10th century.

                    What started only the Germans completed?
                    I wrote in detail in brackets.
          2. BMW
            BMW 28 July 2015 16: 03
            +1
            Quote: Knight
            The exchange of information is facilitated between nations professing the same religion.


            You said stupidity, not religion, but the Latin language, in which all scientific works were written, made this exchange possible. And this is the only contribution of Christianity to the development of science.
            You do not know the history of mathematics at all, and indeed it has become the basis on which culture and science began to develop. It was with the advent of Christianity that all the scientific works of antiquity, like pagan ones, were anathematized. And then the dark time came.
            And science continued to develop in the Arab world. And just when the works of Arab mathematicians came to Europe and the Renaissance began. It was the works of Arab mathematicians that became the basis on which painting and architecture flourished.
            The next push in the development of science was the Reformation, when religious dogmas were called into question. Having received a scientific basis, the Renaissance began.
            1. BMW
              BMW 28 July 2015 16: 24
              0
              In the era of rejoicing, the philosophical foundation was created, which rejected church dogmas, on which science gained its true heyday. And at the beginning of the 20th century, when religion was thrown to the sidelines of history, then and only then did the real industrial revolution begin.
              Study the history of mathematics, and then you will realize that Christianity has always been a brake on science.
              Religion could become the basis for the development of hidden human opportunities, then it might not have had to make its way to the technical side of science. But alas, under the pressure of their dogmas, everything unusual was subjected to persecution and destruction.
              I think that religion could become the basis in the scientific and spiritual (biological) development of mankind, but alas.
              1. Knight
                Knight 29 July 2015 13: 20
                -1
                Quote: bmw
                In the era of rejoicing, the philosophical foundation was created, which rejected church dogmas, on which science gained its true heyday.
                Write nonsense. Philosophers of that time did not discard Christian dogmas, there is no need for that. Science was formed thanks to a combination of favorable factors: the national mentality of Europeans, Christian culture, the accumulation of a critical mass of scientific knowledge and scientific methods. Based on this, a scientific revolution took place, scientific principles that are not in any contradiction with the principles of religion. There are no contradictions between science and religion. There are only contradictions between such a philosophical worldview as atheism and a religious worldview.
                Quote: bmw
                that Christianity has always been a brake on science.
                You admit an unlawful generalization. The brake was not Christianity in general and in general, and not a brake, but in a separate historical period the Catholic Church opposed scientific knowledge that contradicted the accepted Catholic Church. It is time for you to part with your grandmother's prejudices regarding religion.
            2. Knight
              Knight 29 July 2015 13: 03
              0
              Quote: bmw
              You said stupid
              Stop insulting, if I said stupidity prove, while you have nothing but empty self-conceit and idle talk.
              Quote: bmw
              and the Latin language, in which all scientific works were written,
              Adherence to Christianity in the Middle Ages was the most important marker for establishing interpersonal, social, and interstate ties. Similarly, among the Russians, the stranger was first asked if he was baptized, the Russians were not interested in nationality, but Christianity. So the Vikings, having adopted the Slavic religion, became their own among the Slavs. The role and significance of the Latin language cannot be seen outside the context of Christian culture. To consider it as a separate entity in isolation from the Christian milieu is blatant stupidity.
              Quote: bmw
              It was with the advent of Christianity that all the scientific works of antiquity, like pagan ones, were anathematized. And then the dark time came.
              But Rome and Byzantium were not Christian cities? Do not smack nonsense. One nonsense, go to another nonsense.
              Quote: bmw
              And just when the works of Arab mathematicians came to Europe and the Renaissance began
              The Renaissance has cultural roots in the Christian attitude to man as a special being that carries a divine spirit, which is like a god, God's creation. Hence the Renaissance interest in the human person, in human creativity, activity, a positive attitude to all manifestations of human nature.
              Quote: bmw
              science became a reformation when religious dogmas were called into question
              No dogmas of Christianity were questioned there. People were fed up with the power of the pope, they decided to stop paying him taxes, and at the same time remade something unprincipled in religion to their national character.
    4. Nehist
      Nehist 28 July 2015 07: 40
      +6
      Bullshit do not write that from Vladimir Christianity went. It was already in Russia and there were entire communities and cities. But the fact that he massively with the help of his squad drove the whole people into the river without asking this very people, and you protect by baptism?
      1. Knight
        Knight 28 July 2015 08: 04
        +2
        Quote: Nehist
        It was already in Russia and there were entire communities and cities.
        Why did you get that I denied the existence of individual centers of Christianity in Russia?
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 28 July 2015 14: 02
        +3
        Quote: Nehist
        It was already in Russia and there were entire communities and cities.


        Of course it was, and it was considered in the popular mind as one of the pantheon of numerous pagan gods. The bottom line is, if briefly, adopting Christianity, the princes or kungs made a profound revolution not only in beliefs, but in the whole structure of the life of their people. The place of the gods and interpreters of their will - the Magi at the head of society was taken by the prince and his squad. This process is typical in the transition from chiefdoms to the state system, but the forms of this process can be very different. The same thing happened with other peoples during the transition from tribal relations to one-man management and one-faith. Other rulers of pagan societies were in a hurry to change their native polytheism to monotheistic religions other than Christianity - for example, the Volga Bulgars to Islam, and the Khazars even to Judaism . It means that Christianization of Russia is only a special case of a certain general tendency,
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 28 July 2015 14: 27
          +2
          In general, at this historical stage, purely my personal opinion, the sorcerers and priests of the Slavic tribes and communities corrupted power and wealth. For example, the famous Arab scholar Ibn Rust wrote about Rus at the beginning of the 10th century.
          “They have healers dominate the king, like the owners, they order them to sacrifice to the creator what they wish from women, men, herds of horses. ”

          Adam of Bremen and Helmold note that on the island of Rügen, the priest was revered more than the king. They talk about the Ruyan in almost the same words that Ibn Rust about the Rus:
          "The most powerful tribe among the Slavs", the only one that has a king ....
          “Without their solution, not a single public cause can be accomplished. They are so afraid of them because of the special disposition of gods towards them or, rather, idols, whom they surround with a much greater honor than other Slavs. The king, however, is in their honor less than the priest. For he carefully scouts the answers [of the deity] and interprets the recognizable in divination. He depends on the instructions of divination, and the king and the people depend on his instructions. ”

          The same thing then happened with other religions, where the caste of priests degraded, having integrated into the official power. The same SPLIT is, in principle, the struggle of the "money-grubbing" Patriarch Nikon against the "non-possessors" of Archpriest Avvakum.
    5. Darkness
      Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 19
      +2
      Many murky historical characters have been elevated to the rank of "saints".
    6. dmb
      dmb 28 July 2015 10: 44
      +2
      Doesn't it seem to you, dear colleague, that your comment suffers from a lack of logic? In 1917, what you call "religious-spiritual" landmarks was even more present than today. To argue that thanks to those guidelines a socialist state was created means a complete lack of knowledge of the history of one's own country. Considering that those "guidelines" as well as the current ones nourished the right of the rulers who robbed the people, to rob it further, we got the surge of atheism that took place after the revolution. In case of disagreement with this conclusion, I propose to give an example when the present church fathers would condemn the money-grubbing in power. On the contrary, they are increasingly calling for unity with them, but on their terms; we will work and they will share. I agree that canonization is an internal church matter. True, then it is completely incomprehensible the show that the current government is arranging around him, because it is built into its achievements between the Olympics and some summit.
      1. Rastas
        Rastas 28 July 2015 11: 10
        0
        By the 17th year, Orthodoxy, unfortunately, had discredited itself. As Blok wrote - why the ancient cathedral is leaking because the priest there took bribes and traded vodka. Priests themselves prescribed indulgence to those in power, defended their interests, and not the destitute, who promised good in heaven, so that they would not ask questions of earthly life and injustice in it. And they fooled the people with stupid things that they must obey the authorities. As Christ spoke, you will recognize them by their fruits, that’s the hypocrites in robes and reaped the fruits in time for revolution.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 28 July 2015 16: 10
          +3
          Quote: Rastas
          By the 17th year, Orthodoxy, unfortunately, had discredited itself. As Blok wrote - why the ancient cathedral is leaking because the priest there took bribes and traded vodka

          Deja vu ....
          And what did modern privileges for the Russian Orthodox Church cost like duty-free import of tobacco and vodka?
          Quote: Rastas
          And they fooled the people with stupid things that the authorities must obey

          Everything remained unchanged.
          Now the Russian Orthodox Church is in the service of power and is vitally interested in preserving it.
          And the authorities, in turn, arrange shows from any more or less significant church event.
          A television show with the baptized Chekists and the first persons of the state can only be called obscurantism.
          These kinds of popular prints are designed for a completely "narrow-minded", illiterate public, which the people consider to be the authorities.
          Everything in our state is turned upside down, without exception ...
      2. Knight
        Knight 28 July 2015 12: 52
        0
        Quote: dmb
        But do not you think, dear colleague, that your comment suffers from a lack of logic?
        If you think so, give a quote, otherwise your remark looks slanderous.
        Quote: dmb
        To claim that thanks to those landmarks a socialist state was created
        He didn’t say anything like that.
        Quote: dmb
        Considering that those "guidelines" as well as the current ones nourished the right of the rulers who robbed the people, to rob it further, we got the surge of atheism that took place after the revolution.
        The surge of atheism has a reason in the anti-religious policy of the Soviet regime, when priests and monks were subjected to repression. So you have problems with logic.
        Quote: dmb
        In case of disagreement with this conclusion, I propose to give an example when the current church fathers would condemn the possessors of power.
        The current church fathers are engaged in their direct work, the healing of souls, they do not climb into someone else's garden.
        Quote: dmb
        . On the contrary, they are increasingly calling for unity with them, but on their terms; we will work, and they will share.
        Give a quote, prove, otherwise your words are vile slander.
        Quote: dmb
        The truth then, it’s completely incomprehensible to the show that the current government arranges around him,
        Well duck ask a question to this authority.
        1. dmb
          dmb 28 July 2015 15: 51
          +2
          Judging by pulling out quotes, the answer does not interest you, therefore I am writing not so much for you, as for thinking people. You cannot clearly explain the difference between the "landmarks" before 1917 and the current "landmarks" which, in your opinion, "will lead the country to prosperity," there is none of them. Since those "guidelines" led the country to the revolution, and you think that it was not needed, and at the same time praise the active participant in this revolution, Stalin, what other proofs of the lack of logic do you need? Covetousness in Orthodoxy is a sin, and the Church Fathers, who do not condemn this sin, treat souls in a very peculiar way, exactly in a way that is beneficial to the authorities. You understand perfectly well that it is pointless to ask the question of the authorities that you recommend, because you do not deny the very fact of the show organized by the authorities, while the participation of the church fathers in the show does not clearly indicate the virtues of the latter.
    7. kalibr
      kalibr 29 July 2015 18: 45
      0
      I know many people who have declared themselves to be believers, but ... not possessing high moral qualities - here you are envy and greed, and the sin of shame, and the mass of everything. And I know people who do not believe in anything religious, but highly moral and very decent and educated. The first more for some reason. The second less! Why?
  9. V.ic
    V.ic 28 July 2015 07: 07
    0
    I read, it’s long been true that when Vladimir the Baptist left this world, no one especially pulled his hair from grief. In addition, the activity of Prince Vladimir Monomakh was superimposed on this image, as a result of which a fabulous image of Vladimir-the red sun appeared.
  10. andrei.yandex
    andrei.yandex 28 July 2015 07: 15
    -1
    Changing the traditions of the people is not always to their advantage. What the church is all the more about now. I want to give a link to articles in which a person gives his understanding of how Orthodoxy differs from Christianity. Articles are not indisputable, but a lot of reasonable. Through these articles one can indirectly understand who Vladimir was, if at all, he baptized Russia. After all, no one will dispute that everyone wants to lengthen something in antiquity.
    Orthodoxy is not Christianity 1,2,3,4,5 parts. http://www.kramola.info/vesti/religija/pravoslavie-ne-hristianstvo-chast-5. Read better from the first article.
    1. Jack-b
      Jack-b 28 July 2015 07: 18
      +4
      Orthodoxy is not Christianity? Not everyone who is Russian under the flag of Russia.
  11. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 07: 33
    -1
    really why ??? request
    1. avt
      avt 28 July 2015 11: 17
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      really why ???

      Well, Pozner replied in absentia to the Lord of 600 seconds, but not the one who beeps on TV, but his brother. Somehow in one program I heard him say that religion itself has formed several centers of culture. He also said that he was not a believer himself , nevertheless, he positions himself as a person of Christian culture. Well, Shurik has a complex campaign having fallen out of the cage of "engineers of human souls", and since they introduced him to a thermometer and he feels himself attached to "true knowledge", he is tormented by pride, well, not he can just walk by so that he does not raise his leg and piss near an Orthodox church. ”This is normal for such people, well, for radicals of all stripes, especially when pride burns out from within.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 11: 36
        -2
        Quote: avt
        Well, he just can’t pass by so that he wouldn’t raise his leg and not near the Orthodox church piss . This is normal for such

        while I see that you did the same for the sake of mischief, without giving an intelligible answer ... hi
        1. Knight
          Knight 28 July 2015 13: 24
          0
          Nevzorov looks like a monkey waving a computer. He took an atheist from a passage from the Bible and tries to comment on it from his anti-religious position. What does the atheist care about the words from the Bible, the meaning of the word believer? Specifically: the Bible contains a statement, if there is faith, you can move the mountain. Nevzorov exclaims with childish and naive enthusiasm: you can’t, it means there are no believers, but there is an ideology that can be criticized. I’ll tell you a secret: every believer can really move the mountain, but simply does not consider it necessary to do or even admit it laughing . This passage from the Bible must be commented on in the context of Christian culture, it is best to turn to priests who have the appropriate qualifications. One thing is clear, the literal interpretation: you can’t move, it means you have no faith, it’s anti-religious stupidity.
        2. avt
          avt 28 July 2015 14: 44
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          while I see that you did the same for the sake of mischief, without giving an intelligible answer ...

          request Well, let's start with the fact that "The Lord of 600 Seconds" began with the praise of the same Orthodoxy, as you can see for yourself by watching his own programs.
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          really why ???

          From the above quotation, it is generally not clear what this glorious man was going to fight - with the Torah, called in the common people the Old Testament, which every Jewish boy really MUST know, or with the New Testament, for Orthodoxy is basically based on the New Testament and began to be "there is neither a Hellene nor a Jew" - that is, the rules are universal. But Nevzorov, in the course of his last statements and references to European chronicles about the savagery of the Russians, as you can see in the Strizhak programs on Channel 5, is clearly involved in, European values ​​". Just conduct a careful analysis with a retrospective of his statements and doubts will disappear.
  12. Irbis
    Irbis 28 July 2015 07: 40
    +10
    Strange article, strange conclusions based on not understanding what.

    To use early Christian sources as evidence of the "villainous" past of Prince Vladimir is not entirely correct. They have a specific goal to show what he was before and what he became after. If you pay attention, these are two extremes. I was a villain - I became a saint. Truth as usual as Agent Mulder's steering wheel ... Somewhere nearby. That is, in the middle. Prince Vladimir is undoubtedly a child of his time and to judge him from the point of view of the 21st century is simply stupidity.

    It is also incomprehensible to condemn Vladimir's choice of the Christian religion as the main one. Looks like the author forgot that before that in Russia there was already an attempt to create a single religion based on the primordial Slavic. It was during this period that Perun headed the pantheon of Slavic gods. Just in case, let me remind you that the Slavic religion has common roots with the Indian and in fact had the same structure as in India. The only thing it was not so much systematized, which in the context of the unification of Russia was not a very good factor. An attempt to "carry out a reform", in theory, was also supposed to lead to some kind of intra-religious conflict.

    The choice of Byzantine Christianity is a completely understandable fact, since it gave monotheism, and if there is one god in heaven, then there must be one prince on earth. The logic here is simple. And by the way, the adoption of the "single" faith still played its role. Despite the fragmentation after the reign of Prince Vladimir, Russia in critical situations for the most part acted as a single state. A sort of forerunner of the USSR (although the comparison here is far-fetched)

    And I want to add. True, I will use Hinduism as an analogue of the Slavic religion. Hinduism is not polytheism, as many think. Brahma of the Aryans is essentially an analogue of Yahweh among the Semites. Indra, Vishnu and Ziva are Trimutri, almost like a Christian triune, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit. These are not separate gods - but manifestations of Brahma. Etc. Religion of Hindus (Aryans) practically did not change over 3000 years, so it can be assumed that the Slavs used it the same. The fact that Brahma became Veles, Indra - Perun, Shiva - Alive, and Vishnu - Roof essence does not change. I think the prince’s choice of religion described in the annals was based primarily on the logical chain of Trimutri - the Trinity; Perun - for example, God the son, Alive - God the father, Roofs - the Holy Spirit. And since the Slavs, one of the deities had many names and nicknames, then if one more is added, it is not cold that it is not hot. But the authorities received a single, systematized, with a rigid hierarchy, the religion around which it was possible in time to build a similar authority.

    So, the contribution of Prince Vladimir to the unification of Russia is practically the main one, as he based on the available ingredients he kneaded the solution which allowed him to strengthen the foundation of the future Russian state.

    And my IMHO ... As if the priests did not try, most of us still remained pagans, even though we were baptized, we kiss the cross and call ourselves Orthodox.

    Somehow
    1. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 28 July 2015 11: 22
      -1
      Thanks for the curious comment. I agree that religion Harm is not polytheism. Real flightism, where the Creator God is absent, is very rare. Forgotten - yes. They don’t pray, but they know. Is that the religion of the ancient Greeks, if you do not take into account the mysteries. But precisely because there is an example of the Greeks who have degraded religiously to polytheism compared to the tribes of the Aryans of the resettlement era, it is quite possible to admit the existence of real polytheism among the Slavs. Which degraded culturally even more (no offense to our ancestral communities). Anyone who is familiar with the world of the realities of Harm, the complex structure of the Aryan society, whose main goal was essentially the preservation of knowledge, would agree with this. And all the more honor to our ancestors, who after the adoption of Christianity were able to create their own distinctive culture.
      1. Leonid1976
        Leonid1976 28 July 2015 12: 08
        0
        Sorry, the computer was corrected not by the Harm religion, but by the Vedic religion.
  13. parusnik
    parusnik 28 July 2015 07: 47
    +3
    I put a minus to the article, for bias .. The article posed many questions, but was not objectively covered ..
  14. Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 28 July 2015 08: 10
    +3
    "The day of his memory in Russian Orthodoxy is celebrated on July 28, therefore, the date of Vladimir's death is July 28, although the Russian prince died on July 15, 1015"
    The author is elementary illiterate, does not understand that this 28 of July is the 15 of July in the old style - the day of the death of Prince Vladimir.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 28 July 2015 10: 13
      +1
      Quote: Nikolai K
      The author is elementary illiterate, does not understand that the current July 28 is July 15 in the old style

      Do not be so categorical ... This is for three centuries 13 days came running, but what was the date in reality, if we "throw away" seven centuries (as applied to the Gregorian calendar, which we now use) ???
  15. Belousov
    Belousov 28 July 2015 08: 29
    -1
    "Strengthening the role of the church will strengthen the possibility of realizing the" Yugoslav scenario "in Russia, that is, the collapse of the country based on a religious factor. Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, pagans, including Russian neo-pagans, will be dissatisfied."
    Do not confuse the ROC and ordinary believers. In modern Russia, the ROC is, in fact, financially equal to Gazprom, Rosneft, Avtovaz and other corporations. Duty free shopping alone brings in colossal money. And ordinary believers are perceived exclusively as a herd. It is enough to look at the "patriarch" with his watch or his henchmen who drive bukhimi on expensive cars from the restaurant to the sauna to the girls and back.
    Personally, I prefer to go to small, old churches. It’s somehow more natural, cleaner, more spiritual.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 28 July 2015 08: 41
      -1
      Well, we have very few believers. 4% if memory is not changed. And, by the way, it is precisely the church people who are distinguished by terrible hatred and contempt for representatives, say atheism or Slavic paganism.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 26
        -2
        Quote: Darkness
        Well, we have very few believers. 4% if memory is not changed. And, by the way, it is precisely the church people who are distinguished by terrible hatred and contempt for representatives, say atheism or Slavic paganism.

        holy truth. +
      2. 0255
        0255 28 July 2015 10: 59
        +1
        Quote: Darkness
        Well, we have very few believers. 4% if memory is not changed. And, by the way, it is precisely the church people who are distinguished by terrible hatred and contempt for representatives, say atheism or Slavic paganism.

        Excessive faith in God is dangerous for the brain, I confirm from my own experience. When searching for God, you can get into a sect, and then how they will process their brains - so then it will be impossible for a person to return to normal life.
  16. sv-georgij
    sv-georgij 28 July 2015 08: 42
    +5
    The Christianization of Russia destroyed a whole layer of our culture and history. Destroyed sources before baptism that it was not clear. By the way, before Nikon's reforms, paganism existed and was part of many rites of Orthodoxy. And the word Orthodoxy itself was borrowed from paganism. This combination of words praise praise. Ie nav, reality and rule.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 28 July 2015 10: 08
      +1
      You're right! Niconianism incidentally specifically divided the society. And it was under him that in Russia a semblance of the Inquisition appeared that many of us stubbornly deny
  17. Mihail29
    Mihail29 28 July 2015 08: 47
    +4
    I agree with some comments about the fact that "Rurik brought us order", and before him we were all hanging on branches, and that before the adoption of Christianity in Russia there was darkness and orgy. Our state was called Gardariki, the country of white cities, we did not have a plague, etc. Svyatoslav defeated Khazaria, Oleg took the "Tsar Grad" in the days of his greatest power, and not centuries later, when Byzantium was falling apart from the inside, the united Europe itself was able to take it and then only with the help of bribery, these great victories were before the adoption of Christianity. But these victories became possible not because Russia (the army) was led by Svyatoslav or Oleg, but because there was a base based on traditions, including the military inherited by Russia from the Sarmatians and even further away from the Scythians.
    1. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg 28 July 2015 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: Michael29
      I agree with some comments about the fact that "Rurik brought us order", and before him we were all hanging on branches, and that before the adoption of Christianity in Russia there was darkness and orgy. Our state was called Gardariki, the country of white cities, we did not have a plague, etc. Svyatoslav defeated Khazaria, Oleg took the "Tsar Grad" in the days of his greatest power, and not centuries later, when Byzantium was falling apart from the inside, the united Europe itself was able to take it and then only with the help of bribery, these great victories were before the adoption of Christianity. But these victories became possible not because Russia (the army) was led by Svyatoslav or Oleg, but because there was a base based on traditions, including the military inherited by Russia from the Sarmatians and even further away from the Scythians.

      It seems that Svyatoslav Tsargrad did not take, but took the mercy.
  18. Anatoly_1959
    Anatoly_1959 28 July 2015 08: 53
    +1
    what history is, but it was, there is no escape. A monument to Vladimir must be erected, however, like other princes in other cities who laid down their lives for Russia. We are their descendants and it is not for us to judge what we ourselves have not seen and in what circumstances were not. Holy or not holy - for me, an atheist, it makes no difference. Let the believers decide. Guys, do not argue from scratch. As the song says, "we must gratefully accept" everything that our ancestors did and try to continue their work to preserve and improve our Motherland. The descendants will appreciate our deeds and may remember us with a kind word.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 29
      +1
      Quote: Anatoly_1959
      what kind of story is not, but it was, there’s nowhere to go. The monument to Vladimir must be put

      Well, if there is a monument to EBN and Mercedes-Benz, then let this be, no matter how you turn HISTORY, but the descendants will not judge, because the further, the darker the story ...
      1. avt
        avt 28 July 2015 14: 49
        +1
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        what kind of story is not, but it was, there’s nowhere to go. The monument to Vladimir must be put
        Well, if there is a monument to EBN and Mercedes-Benz, then let this be, no matter how you turn HISTORY, but the descendants will not judge, because the further, the darker the story ...

        Yeah ! Here I confess because of my stupidity I do not understand wassat Why is it suddenly NECESSARY, who needs it and why in Moscow exactly ??? With what fright is that? There wasn’t even a gram from him here and during his life - they would have put him in Novgorod then or something, he sort of from there sat on the Kiev table with the Novgorod squad. Somehow Tseretelievsky Petrusha No. 1 is enough for the eyes together with the Monster City with its gloomy skyscrapers.
  19. Velizariy
    Velizariy 28 July 2015 09: 04
    +1
    Quote: sv-georgij
    The Christianization of Russia destroyed a whole layer of our culture and history. Destroyed sources before baptism that it was not clear. By the way, before Nikon's reforms, paganism existed and was part of many rites of Orthodoxy. And the word Orthodoxy itself was borrowed from paganism. This combination of words praise praise. Ie nav, reality and rule.

    What is such a layer and what kind of culture ??? If pagan gods are so strong and fair, and the people are so highly cultured and strong, how did it happen that someone turned out to be more intelligent and strong than Perun and others ??? And how did a highly cultured super-ancient people with a powerful army, as has been repeatedly stated here, allow this? because he praised the rule, why this right could not resist the Greek faith then?
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 28 July 2015 09: 25
      +2
      Not more intelligent, but more cunning and greedy.
      Paganism still exists and even grows and grows stronger. It just hid for a while.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 July 2015 09: 31
      +2
      Quote: Velizariy
      If pagan gods are so strong and fair, and the people are so highly cultured and strong, how did it happen that someone turned out to be more intelligent and strong than Perun and others ???

      apparently Jewish gods, and the people, as always turned out to be more cunning and quirky .. (what is the question, such is the answer)
  20. vnuss
    vnuss 28 July 2015 09: 18
    +2
    Quote: sv-georgij
    The Christianization of Russia destroyed a whole layer of our culture and history. Destroyed sources before baptism that it was not clear. By the way, before Nikon's reforms, paganism existed and was part of many rites of Orthodoxy. And the word Orthodoxy itself was borrowed from paganism. This combination of words praise praise. Ie nav, reality and rule.
    Quote: sv-georgij
    The Christianization of Russia destroyed a whole layer of our culture and history. Destroyed sources before baptism that it was not clear. By the way, before Nikon's reforms, paganism existed and was part of many rites of Orthodoxy. And the word Orthodoxy itself was borrowed from paganism. This combination of words praise praise. Ie nav, reality and rule.


    Explicit distortion.
    Not a combination of words to praise the right, but a combination of words to praise the truth.
    It turns out a completely different meaning - not militant, but peace-loving.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 10: 53
      +1
      Quote: vnuss
      Not a combination of words to praise the right, but a combination of words to praise the truth.

      Hmm, what then do non-Orthodox Christians (Catholics, Lutherans, etc.) praise? Is it a lie?
      "Praise the truth" sounds somehow unnatural, in contrast to "praise the rule" and "praise the gods". To dispel my doubts, can you clearly define the "truth" that is glorified?
  21. partizan86
    partizan86 28 July 2015 09: 35
    -1
    It’s strange that the article even came to light, so not everything is lost :)
  22. Aleksander
    Aleksander 28 July 2015 09: 48
    +1
    Thus, power is in truth.


    But the truth is not with Samsonov. yes
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 28 July 2015 10: 15
      0
      Quote: Aleksander
      But the truth is not with Samsonov.

      Have a monopoly on the truth? Share the article, I’ll read it with pleasure!
  23. Polkanov
    Polkanov 28 July 2015 10: 03
    +4
    ... the article is not worthy of much criticism. Not to judge history, but to study it. The life of the prince before his Baptism corresponded to the concepts of those times. And there is no news here. The decision on the status of holiness was made by people more worthy in this matter than most of us. And as an example to put "more worthy", for example, Alexander Nevsky, punished his own people with sword and fire, for arrears in tribute to the Tatars. The author's logic is strange, the article is not about anything ... Minus
    1. RiverVV
      RiverVV 28 July 2015 10: 35
      +2
      What kind of "corresponded" there? :))) Almost a thousand concubines! The hamster rubs his sweaty, hairy palms lasciviously: "Wow, I wish I could!" But a normal man knows perfectly well that if you throw three sticks a day, then in a month you will need Viagra, and after two he will stop standing altogether.
  24. Vladimir1960
    Vladimir1960 28 July 2015 10: 23
    +2
    Horses do not change at the crossing. The bumbling today, in search of a different faith, is untimely. There would be to save what is.
  25. RiverVV
    RiverVV 28 July 2015 10: 33
    -1
    The credibility of hamsters is impressive. Well, just think a little with your brain: Vladimir was born in 960, and converted to Christianity in 988. He allegedly became the Prince of Novgorod at the age of 10, at the age of 18 he became the Prince of Kiev, destroying his brother in the feud. Well, after ten years, the type introduced Christianity. Does this list bother you?

    For example, that in 10 years no one would allow him to reign. Actually, someone from the senior combatants really ruled for sure. In eight years, what could have changed? Never mind. In the same way, a young man could pretend to be a prince, only fully relying on his squad. But if the squad is faithful and strong (and Yaropolk was dealt with in just a year), then what prevented the christening of Kiev right away? Why did he wait ten years and did the squad obey him at all?

    And here is the version. There were actually two Vladimirov. The first is Olga’s brother (possibly son) and Prince Svyatoslav’s uncle (possibly brother). The second is the son of Svyatoslav and the slave Malusha. It is not at all uncommon that one historical person was considered by the annals as somewhat different. The opposite also happened. Well, could Olga and Svyatoslav have entrusted the Novgorod table to a ten-year-old puppy. Ruled out. Novgorod is the northern gate of Russia. Mercenaries, silver, weapons - everything went through them. Someone very serious, able to keep the Novgorod veche in hedgehogs should have ruled there.

    Olga was a Christian. Svyatoslav, too, the squad "will not be baptized". Svyatoslav was killed on an island where an old pagan temple is located. Sacrifice? It is quite possible that Svyatoslav was also a Christian. So who could his son and grandson Olga be? Is it a pagan?

    In general, turn on the brain and think ...
  26. 0255
    0255 28 July 2015 10: 35
    +6
    Dear Alexander Samsonov, do we now, after your article, need to believe back in Perun and Dazhbog and go to the temple? laughing
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 11: 03
      +1
      Quote: 0255
      now after your article do we need to believe back in Perun and Dazhbog and go to the temple?

      As for "must believe" you are clearly at the wrong place. "Pagans" did not force anyone into their faith by force and did not impose their faith on anyone, unlike.
      1. grandson of Perun
        grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 11: 25
        +1
        Anonymous who put a minus backfill question:
        Historically reliable fact, when Volodymyr's squad forcibly drove the people of Kiev to the Dnieper for baptism. Can an anonymous author give a reliable fact when the "pagans" did something like that, or again minus the secret?
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. RiverVV
        RiverVV 28 July 2015 12: 03
        +1
        Do you know many pagans of that time? They did not drive ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 13: 50
          +1
          Well, if they were driven, then you would have answered not in the style of "I do not believe and that's it," "they did not drive ...", but you would have cited facts wink

          Two more words about where exactly they drove or did not drove.
          The Slavs revered the gods as their ancestors. They considered the gods to be their relatives and did not consider themselves their slaves. Therefore, they worshiped them, and did not pray to them. It is foolish to pray to your relatives.
          And you "drove" with yours, want to say that the Slavs forcibly forced others "well, read my grandfathers and great-grandfathers"?

          PS: if anything, then the minus is not mine. I AM for the question not minus (unlike fanatics), but I answer the question.
          1. RiverVV
            RiverVV 28 July 2015 14: 18
            +1
            And what facts do you need? Go to Rome. There is a round thing in the middle of the city. The coliseum is called. Take an interest in how many Christians were driven there - you will be surprised.
            And if you think that one pagan is different from the other, then you are very mistaken.
            1. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 14: 51
              +1
              1. Where is Rome with the Colosseum, and where are the Russian "pagans"?
              2. Yes, the Romans are very different from the Slavs in everything: from genetics to culture.
              3. On some islands of Oceania, Christian preachers were generally eaten. But this does not prove your unfounded statements about "being driven to the temples."
              1. RiverVV
                RiverVV 29 July 2015 02: 51
                0
                Genetics? That’s all, rodnoverie ran ...
                You know, I have great respect for Islam. In particular, Muslims do not consider pagans as people. It would be nice if the Orthodox did not look through their fingers at that heresy.
            2. The comment was deleted.
    2. avt
      avt 28 July 2015 11: 29
      +1
      Quote: 0255
      Dear Alexander Samsonov, do we now, after your article, need to believe back in Perun and Dazhbog and go to the temple?

      But the money that you leave in the church - send it to the "relatives". laughing
  27. bbss
    bbss 28 July 2015 10: 41
    +1
    The author disguises himself as a lamb, but in fact his article is aimed at "undermining the foundations, loosening and debunking." If we continue to absorb information in this way, then in a few years we will wear a burqa and a mullah will sit on everyone's neck.
  28. Leonid1976
    Leonid1976 28 July 2015 11: 02
    +3
    What is the writing of the superethnos of Russians? The tribes of the Eastern Slavs, the ancestors of the Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were among the non-written peoples. And they remained until the appearance of the Cyrillic alphabet. And that is why it is simply ridiculous to speak about the merits of Slavic paganism. There are no written monuments (just do not need about the late fashions). Modern neopaganism is just a remake. Any religious scholar will confirm. We even know more about the ancient Egyptian religion. The author speaks of the community of Slavic tribes as a nation, apparently I do not understand the feudal-trading nature of the power of the Rurikovich. And 500 years after Vladimir, faith was given much more importance than origin (blood). Introduce the Horde prince on the Moscow throne. Yes Easy! Korolevich Vladislav? No problems. But the Muslim is incredible. The Catholic is difficult. The people never accepted. The Cossacks took at least a Turk to themselves. But only if Orthodoxy accepted. Christianity and formed a single people. Created Russian culture. About the synthesis of paganism and Christianity and the creation of Russian Orthodoxy is generally ridiculous. For many centuries we have been culturally children compared to the Greeks. If Sergius synthesized something like that, he would be a heretic. And so the Orthodox churches are no different in dogma. The only thing I agree with is that the formation of state Orthodoxy is not a buzz in our time. Now we need to fight for the minds by personal example, and not compensate for the lack of personal decency of a number of hierarchs by the authority of secular authorities.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 11: 17
      +1
      Quote: Leonid1976
      What is the writing of the superethnos of Russians?

      1. Etruscan discs, which are many thousands of years old. (By the way, does the name "Etruscans" remind you of anything?) Are they written in Latin or in "Cyrillic" - a cut off capital letter?
      2. The numbers of the Slavs were written in letters and a title (az = 1, lead = 2 ...) According to the Slavic calendar, now 7523 is summer. Question for filling: as the Slavs are seven thousand years old !!! led the reckoning without writing? Seven thousand knots tied? wink Then they were considered how? lol
      1. Leonid1976
        Leonid1976 28 July 2015 11: 39
        +1
        Sources on the table! What many thousands of years. Are you going to megalithic civilization?
        ... Writing has always been in step with the state. The first samples, according to the memory of Egypt, are approximately 3 thousand years BC. Nameplates in the graves. They appeared for religious reasons. Etruscans not earlier than 10th century BC. As for the Russians, Russia, the Russian spears have been broken so far. But in order to associate with the Etruscans, it is, as my son says, "unrealistically cool."
    3. avt
      avt 28 July 2015 11: 35
      +1
      Quote: Leonid1976
      What is the writing of the superethnos of Russians? The tribes of the Eastern Slavs, the ancestors of the Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were among the non-written peoples. And they remained until the appearance of the Cyrillic alphabet.

      Well, maybe the great-Ukrainians didn’t have it, well, there was no time — the Black Sea was digging and because of illiteracy they called it Russian, but instead of stuffing such opuses on the clave with the Cyrillic alphabet, maybe you read something about it in the Wikipedia? And there and then you will want to learn something from an earlier one, well, what happened before the circumcision of the Slavic alphabet
      Quote: Leonid1976
      unwritten peoples.

      "Slovenian teachers", and then you see, and runic "Scandinavian" letter you will recognize. so do not judge by your own illiteracy and knowledge and writing of the Slavs.
      1. Leonid1976
        Leonid1976 28 July 2015 12: 21
        +1
        The first written monument in Glagolitic in Russia - 10th century "Kiev missal". This is mostly the alphabet of the South Slavs.
        1. avt
          avt 28 July 2015 14: 55
          0
          Quote: Leonid1976
          The first written monument in Glagolitic in Russia - 10th century "Kiev missal".

          Well done, I’ve mastered the Glagolitic, now let's go further from the Initial Letter to Runica.
          1. Leonid1976
            Leonid1976 28 July 2015 15: 52
            +1
            I will not master. Moreover, after them there are 10 more. Even more ancient. So you can get to the Neolithic. But as I understand it with a verb, the question is closed.
            1. avt
              avt 28 July 2015 16: 49
              0
              Quote: Leonid1976
              But as I understand it with a verb, the question is closed.

              Well, so it was closed by Cyril and Methodius. laughing SLOVENIAN teachers, only stubborn Croats were not circumcised.
              Quote: Leonid1976
              They did not leave their Illiad.

              Slavs? Well, everything that closely resembled that epic, from the Vlesova Kniga to The Lay of Igor's Regiment, was raised by supporters of the classic Millerian story to giggle - a fake late.
      2. Leonid1976
        Leonid1976 28 July 2015 15: 56
        +2
        Yes, somehow hard to judge. They did not leave their Illiad. Those. almost left nothing.
        1. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 16: 30
          +1
          The same Prince Vladimir, about whom all the fuss, why burned the chronicles?
          Where is the Ivan the Terrible library? Just don’t say that she was not there.
          Where are the old books that the commissars after the revolution seized for "restoration" (as they told people)?
          If many times our culture has been purposefully destroyed, then there is no need to say "They did not leave their Iliad. That is, they left almost nothing at all." It smacks of cynicism, you know ...
  29. okroshka79
    okroshka79 28 July 2015 11: 04
    0
    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that the current Orthodox people are much more aggressive towards atheists, if not vice versa. Personally, I am an atheist. But I respect the faith of my ancestors and generally other faiths, if they do not go off scale from fanaticism. Faith is a purely personal matter. But here's the funny thing. Why, if everyone is equal before God, why, when the highest officials of the state are present at the services, they are not in the crowd of mere mortals, but on a separate stand?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 28 July 2015 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: okroshka79
      . Why, if everyone is equal before God, why, when the highest officials of the state are present at the services, they are not in the crowd of mere mortals, but on a separate stand?

      It's very simple


      Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, height 1,63 m

      Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin
      1,70 m
    3. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 28 July 2015 11: 49
      0
      A relic of ancient times, when the king was a mediator between God and the worn out and saved those faithful to him by performing the appropriate rites. The whole history of religion is the search for the Savior. Belief in the mystical role of the monarch persisted for a long time. The power was assigned to the French kings to heal the scrofula (it would be better if the plague was of course :)) Now a stupid relic. I would stand in the place of officials in the farthest corner. But what can you do, faith does not make a machine gun a saint. But there is hope that becoming a believer, a person will be better than he is an unbeliever.
    4. Caucasian
      Caucasian 28 July 2015 12: 45
      0
      1) It’s more convenient for the security service. 2) It shows that the bosses are with the people. H) The person doesn’t paint the place.
  30. alex995
    alex995 28 July 2015 11: 05
    +4
    The author deliberately denigrates not only Prince Vladimir, but all of Holy Russia. If we talk about the Soviet period, then it is the Soviet historians who write in their studies that the adoption of Christianity in Russia took place gradually, for more than 300 years, without the use of "fire and sword." In Russia, Christianity and paganism peacefully coexisted, in contrast to Europe, where those who disagree were simply destroyed, like any dissent, disagreement with the general doctrine.
    It is strange that an overly religious "Orthodox" Russia has gathered under its wing different peoples with different faiths, not by "re-educating" them, but by preserving them! their personality! Only the truly Orthodox Russian people were able to defeat so many enemies without staining themselves with robbery and violence, fighting heroically and giving their souls for "their friends."
    These authors "liberals" are just petty dirty tricks, disgusting and God-repugnant. Either Zhukov is bad, then Jesus never existed, then Stalin is a beast, then Ivan the Terrible is a fierce man-hater. It's funny! No links, no documents, just your OPINION! The author knows everything, but you "unfortunate" do not read anything, do not know, do not interpret it that way.
    1. Orang
      Orang 28 July 2015 11: 35
      0
      Quote: alex995
      the adoption of Christianity in Russia took place gradually, over 300 years, without the use of "fire and sword". In Russia, Christianity and paganism peacefully coexisted, in contrast to Europe

      Right. Not without exacerbations, of course, to take the same revolts of the Magi, but there were no European and Asian passions.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 29 July 2015 19: 06
      0
      Alex! Well, I suggest that you read the Pravda newspaper and the documents of the party congresses on the role of the same Stalin in the split of the international labor movement and the cultivation of the term social fascism. You will not go to the archive, the library and you will not read all this. There are also documents about photographs of victims of Jewish pogroms by orthodox members of the Archangel Union - you can say that this is a forgery. But the documents are on EVERYTHING, but not all are available ... But you can still read will not. So why give something, some links?
  31. CB activist
    CB activist 28 July 2015 11: 06
    -2
    A. Samsonov's article is a vile cheapness, and, in addition, a provocation. Now is not the beginning of the 90s, the past 25 years SHOULD teach people to figure out where the historical truth is, and where the clever layout is. All these are predictions about "great ukrov", only adapted for Russian use. Samsonov blames St. book Vladimir, that his activities provoked a confusion, but he himself does not notice that he is provoking a new confusion.

    Another small remark: there is the concept of HISTORY, large human communities can exist both in the HISTORY and outside it (i.e. it is closed, without aspiration to the future, without the great idea that they fight for, and, if it comes to pass, die). The Russian people went down in history through Christianity, the great monotheistic religion, for 1000 years put forward two historical projects - 1. St. Rus (Third Rome, Catechon), 2. Communism (the USSR showed itself as the same Catechon, this is a historical fact, with it can not argue). The huge pagan China even today does not pretend to any world-projecting historical role, although it now has the opportunity like no other.
  32. Aleksander
    Aleksander 28 July 2015 11: 13
    +3
    An example should be taken from the Soviet society of the period 1930-1950-s


    You may notice that in 1930-50's most of the people were people educated in pre-revolutionary Christian Russia, possessing high moral qualities. But the ghouls who made "perestroika and the collapse of the country are a pure communist product ... yes
  33. Sars
    Sars 28 July 2015 11: 29
    +2
    In the nineties, the Russian Orthodox Church was actively "friends" with "new Russians" - bandits of all stripes, I wonder, nobody was canonized?
    The current head of the Russian Orthodox Church himself was engaged in the import of cigarettes.
    1. alex995
      alex995 28 July 2015 11: 36
      -2
      Are you a saint, sinless? Or in the ROC are not people, but angels? The villains are everywhere full, in the Church they are more visible.
      People go to the temple to God, and not to a specific priest, who is only a "witness"
      1. lubesky
        lubesky 28 July 2015 12: 03
        +1
        Quote: alex995
        Are you a saint, sinless? Or in the ROC are not people, but angels? The villains are everywhere full, in the Church they are more visible

        Sorry, but when you put on a minister in a church, do you not take responsibility? What is your comparison of the turner at the factory and the minister of the church? A turner making a shell on a machine for the front is doubly responsible to others, to each his own. Any position entails responsibility. In your opinion, the official can be justified for a bribe - is he also a person, you type are sinless yourself?
        1. alex995
          alex995 28 July 2015 12: 10
          0
          What do you work with? Are you doing everything honestly? I repeat in the Church, too, people.
          Speaking of the fact that they are not responsible people - you are talking about yourself - I am certainly better than them. To each his own - where does it come from?
          Do not look at other people's sins, fight with yours, then there will be no time for condemnation.
          1. lubesky
            lubesky 28 July 2015 12: 28
            +2
            Quote: alex995
            What do you work with? Are you doing everything honestly?

            I build private houses and resell them. Personally, I am responsible for the quality of construction. And I build quality, because I feel responsible. And if I sin where, I don’t deny or blame anyone, because the house I built is an area of ​​my personal responsibility to the buyer and I do not make excuses that I am also a person. To blame means to blame.
            Quote: alex995
            I repeat in the Church, too, people

            People who have taken responsibility for their ministry
            Quote: alex995
            Speaking about the fact that they are not responsible people - you talk about yourself - I’m certainly better than them

            I did not say that they are irresponsible. The quote where I talked about this is in the studio. And if the clergyman does not correspond to the moral character of the priest, he is irresponsible (like me, if my house does not correspond to the quality)
            Quote: alex995
            To each his own - where does it come from?

            To each his own - where is it from? I answer - "He will reward a man according to his deeds" Proverbs 24-12 "He will reward everyone according to his deeds ... Matthew 16-27
            Quote: alex995
            Do not look at other people's sins, fight with yours, then there will be no time for condemnation.

            I do not blame, I convict. I repent for my sins and try to improve. But my profession does not tolerate such excuses as you give (also a person). How will this justify me when a house collapses on people's heads ???
            In the end I’ll tell you - in the CPKF, being a peacekeeper, was a sapper. If I do my job poorly and do not correspond to my position, undermine the unit and let the guys down - you say - are you sinless? He is also a man))) How will your comparison relieve me of responsibility, can you tell me?
      2. Sars
        Sars 28 July 2015 12: 15
        -1
        I am Orthodox, but I don’t go to church with them!
      3. Sars
        Sars 28 July 2015 12: 15
        0
        I am Orthodox, but I don’t go to church with them!
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. grandson of Perun
        grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 13: 04
        +3
        Quote: alex995
        People go to the temple to God, and not to a specific priest, who is only a "witness"

        Actually, not a witness, but a mediator. They call themselves "God's servants."
    2. Alex uhu
      Alex uhu 28 July 2015 12: 14
      0
      Prove, then I will believe. Otherwise, slander.
  34. lubesky
    lubesky 28 July 2015 11: 38
    +2
    I don’t understand why the author has Vladimir, for his not popular decisions he suddenly became a bad guy, and then gives Peter 1, Tsar John and Stalin in comparison? These great leaders have no less popular solutions leading to casualties. IMHO it is not true for the author to compare the great generals on a par with the rulers, this is incorrect, the scale of the decisions is different. In general, what is the article calling for? To the separation of the church from the state? But forgive me, this is written in our constitution, the lack of spirituality in us annoys us, we have to work on ourselves, nothing changes from the number of churches and temples. Vladimir made a large-scale decision, radically changing the course of our civilization, this influenced ALL the subsequent history of the Fatherland. And the personal qualities of great figures do not shine for many, I recently gave a personal characteristic about Stalin - that’s how the kapets blundered me, although I presented the well-known facts to everyone. At the same time, I praised Stalin as a statesman, perhaps one of the greatest rulers of merit and decision. Therefore, Vladimir, as the author claims, is not correctly stigmatized. It is strange that I forgot to write about his drinking parties, from which the Greeks were in deep shock))) According to the logic of the author, Alexander I is no longer comme il faut - he is an accomplice in the murder of his father and many rulers can write a lot of personal negative ...
  35. shilov-mob
    shilov-mob 28 July 2015 11: 43
    -2
    An example should be taken from the Soviet society of the period 1930-1950-s


    Well, well ... Let's start the fight against religion again.
    For 1937 — 1938, on the affairs of the NKVD organs, 1 575 259 people were arrested, of whom 681 692 people were sentenced to death.
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 14: 07
      +1
      Quote: shilov-mob
      Well, well ... Let's start the fight against religion again.
      For 1937 — 1938, on the affairs of the NKVD organs, 1 575 259 people were arrested, of whom 681 692 people were sentenced to death.

      Firstly, no one is fighting Christianity here. Rather, on the contrary, the most aggressive minusers here are just fans of Prince Vladimir.
      Secondly, you do not know the history of your country well. An active struggle with religion and the robbery of churches were carried out by fiery revolutionaries in leather jackets in the first years after the revolution.
      By the way, not only Christians have inherited from the ardent revolutionaries in leather jackets. "Pagan" books were destroyed by them with even greater fury. And people remember that.
      Thirdly, in the years 37-38 there was a sweep of the ancestors of the current liberals, which is why they are the loudest screaming about the 37th year. This has nothing to do with religion.
      1. shilov-mob
        shilov-mob 28 July 2015 16: 51
        0
        Read about Butovo landfill ...
        or about elephant
        1. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 30 July 2015 11: 12
          +1
          I read it, but the "fight against religion" is clearly far-fetched here. Gundyaev's loud statements about the "Russian Golgotha" do not count: even if the numbers are correct, the priests of all confessions made up 5% of the total.
          But on the contrary, I constantly observe the struggle of Christians with those of their own opinion. Already three days !!! passed since the publication of this news, and someone purposefully takes revenge on me and hollows the rating to minus. That is, the struggle is going on, but exactly the opposite of what you described. hi
  36. YakimovSS
    YakimovSS 28 July 2015 11: 45
    +5
    The author, kindly requested, to familiarize yourself with the works to which you cite citations, in the original or at least a complete translation.
    I read the beginning and already so many fictions and conjectures that it’s just horror. Vladimir did not start a civil war, but ended it. And his brothers started this war and the lands were mired in civil strife, and Vladimir put an end to this. Vladimir did not choose between Christianity and Islam, the choice was much wider. Even in Christianity, he compared the Bulgarians with the Byzantines. And in comparison, he sent his ambassadors, who examined everything with their own eyes.

    I didn't read further. It is very similar to the text of modern pseudo pagans, when I did not read the source code, but reprinted some quotations "from reliable sources".

    It’s not a good idea to go to court with such an abstract.
  37. Vladimir1960
    Vladimir1960 28 July 2015 12: 12
    0
    A good PR campaign can work. Pleased.
    "Leaders of Islamic states will arrive in Moscow in September"
    In September, leaders of the Islamic world will gather in Moscow. The occasion is more than suitable - the opening of the Moscow Cathedral Mosque on Prospekt Mira. The list of invited heads of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Iran and other states.
    Read on: http://izvestia.ru/news/589261#ixzz3hAxHyBO4
  38. fomkin
    fomkin 28 July 2015 12: 19
    0
    A. Samsonov! I am glad that you have come to conclusions that have taken possession of my mind as well already a long time ago. It is pointless to argue about theology, much less history. Here, only the accumulation of knowledge and their analysis can help, without the participation of any apologists there. There is a logic of things, and one must proceed from it. This, in principle, cannot be that the Great People had such a story that they are trying to slip us. Norman theory alone is what it is worth.
  39. Caucasian
    Caucasian 28 July 2015 12: 31
    0
    The author of the article for the Nobel Prize! He opened his eyes to us, showed us the light! What fools were our ancestors whom they canonized! Why didn’t they ask him and Akhedzhakova?
  40. Basil50
    Basil50 28 July 2015 12: 56
    +1
    How do these writings about Christ differ from * The hunchbacked horse * or about * Immortal *, * It seems to me only that kindness and love always prevail in fairy tales. Infantilism of the perception of the world leads to religiosity, and crooks and scoundrels take advantage of this, and masterly justify their own parasitism, they also make claims.
  41. DimYang
    DimYang 28 July 2015 13: 44
    +2
    Baptism definitely brought nothing good. Well, this geek Vladimir himself is not Rurikovich at all, a dirty ub..ok of the Semitic slave Malki. General offspring.
  42. report4
    report4 28 July 2015 14: 13
    +1
    1. The problem of the neo-pagan author is that the basis for neo-paganism is nonsense, sucked from the finger, for a dumb scholar. Today's "Rodnovers" have nothing in common with their pagan ancestors. Ordinary nerds with fictitious rituals that are mowed down like pagans.
    2. The author is trying to prove something on the basis of the "yellow press" of that time. At least he can put the number of concubines on a piece of paper so as not to broadcast nonsense to the masses?
    3. The author does not understand a bit that only monotheism could unite empires, there would not be one religion at a large historical stage - there would be no Russia.
    1. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 28 July 2015 15: 00
      -2
      Paragraph 1,2 I unequivocally support it. Under paragraph 3 I do not agree. Rome, the empire of Alexander the Great, China, all kinds of Incas with the Aztecs. Yes, a bunch of someone else.
      1. report4
        report4 28 July 2015 17: 25
        +2
        And the Roman Empire fell apart and accepted monotheism. And with monotheism, most of its term existed (Eastern).
        The Macedonian empire was relatively quickly scattered by centrifugal forces.
        And China has never been an empire in its classical form.
  43. Milooka
    Milooka 28 July 2015 14: 29
    -3
    [quote = Penzuck]


    [quote = igorra] I, that following his logic, should abandon the father of an atheist? [/ quote] - This is your logic. If you remember - there is a commandment about parents ...
    The commandment speaks of the father and mother received at baptism, that is, the godfather and godmother. And yes, the New Testament says that we must abandon our families (Gospel of Matthew, chapter 10, verse 34-37) !!!
    1. Penzuck
      Penzuck 29 July 2015 09: 18
      0
      37. Who loves father or mother more than menot worthy of Me; and whoever loves a son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me ...
      (St. Matthew's Gospel 10: 37)

      Is this the place for the incomprehensible?
      1. AZ AM LORD ... - the first commandment and the most important. First of all, we love God.
      2. Do not make yourself an idol ...
  44. sv-georgij
    sv-georgij 28 July 2015 14: 43
    0
    I advise everyone to watch the film "Primordial Rus" and About Vasily Buslay. Here he is there and tells the Roman emperor that his gods do not call him a slave. And in the film "Primordial Rus" the sorcerer says that his family is from Svarog. We still do not separate ourselves from our ancestors, i.e., from our kind. We say that we gave the Swedes near Poltava, drove Napoleon out, won the Second World War. And to everyone who speaks about writing among the Slavs, rejecting it before the baptism of Russia, I want to say every letter of ours is a figurativeness and an image in every word. Only we do not understand this now.
    1. Leonid1976
      Leonid1976 28 July 2015 15: 14
      +2
      When a Christian calls himself a servant of God, he means that he is only his slave and no one else's. And he wanted to spit on the spirits of the earth, water, drums and water. In general, all that is filled with the world of the pagan. We are divine, but God will not betray us. As a servant of the king, there is no concern for the smaller rulers.
  45. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 15: 05
    +2
    Quote: Leonid1976
    A relic of ancient times, when the king was a mediator between God and the worn out and saved those faithful to him by performing the appropriate rites.

    The Slavs worshiped the gods as their ancestors and their relatives.
    Do you need an intermediary between you and your ancestors? Personally, I don’t, I communicate with my relatives without any intermediaries. I need intermediaries only for communicating with foreigners as translators.
    Quote: Leonid1976
    The whole history of religion is the search for the Savior. Belief in the mystical role of the monarch persisted for a long time.

    The Slavs lived in harmony with nature. Who or what did they need a supernatural "savior" from? The example with the French king is not the topic. He was just a mediator between the people of France and the biblical god.
  46. Velizariy
    Velizariy 28 July 2015 15: 07
    +1
    [quote = grandson of Perun] [quote = Leonid1976] What is the writing of the superethnos of the Rus? [/ quote]
    ... According to the Slavic calendar, now 7523 is summer ..
    Not in Slovenian but in Eastern Roman, Byzantine, the one that Peter I abolished, but was adopted after the baptism of Russia.
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 15: 31
      +1
      Quote: Velizariy
      According to the Slavic calendar, now 7523 is summer ..
      Not in Slovenian but in Eastern Roman, Byzantine, the one that Peter I abolished, but was adopted after the baptism of Russia.

      You can explain why Christians are so intolerant of any other faith (which, incidentally, is confirmed by Christians themselves, who have brought me a lot of minuses FOR QUESTIONS) in all countries, after their baptism, the chronology from the birth of Christ was introduced, and in Russia, instead of one pagan, another pagan "Byzantine" calendar was introduced ???
    2. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 15: 31
      +1
      Quote: Velizariy
      According to the Slavic calendar, now 7523 is summer ..
      Not in Slovenian but in Eastern Roman, Byzantine, the one that Peter I abolished, but was adopted after the baptism of Russia.

      You can explain why Christians are so intolerant of any other faith (which, incidentally, is confirmed by Christians themselves, who have brought me a lot of minuses FOR QUESTIONS) in all countries, after their baptism, the chronology from the birth of Christ was introduced, and in Russia, instead of one pagan, another pagan "Byzantine" calendar was introduced ???
      1. Irbis
        Irbis 28 July 2015 16: 32
        +1
        And what pagan from the Slavs? Give exactly pagan, not Old Slavonic, which was accepted with the adoption of Christianity. Namely, before the Christian. I can guess where to look for him, and you?
  47. Velizariy
    Velizariy 28 July 2015 15: 10
    +1
    [quote = Milooka] [quote = Penzuck]


    [quote = igorra] I, that following his logic, should abandon the father of an atheist? [/ quote] - This is your logic. If you remember - there is a commandment about parents ...
    The commandment speaks of the father and mother received at baptism, that is, the godfather and godmother. And yes, the New Testament says that we must abandon our families (Gospel of Matthew, chapter 10, verse 34-37) !!! [/ quote]
    Sugar, flour, nails ...) The Gospel only speaks of fidelity to God above loyalty to father and mother ... and not their rejection.
    Palestinian fishermen ito understood ...
  48. BilliBoms09
    BilliBoms09 28 July 2015 15: 15
    +1
    He worked in the KhPP "Sofrino" of the Russian Orthodox Church, this is a plant for the production of church utensils, traveled a lot on business trips and saw various churchmen, who were eating meat at the post with a vodka, and elders to whom they came from all over the world. And the author of the article distorts, then turns to the "Tale of Bygone Years" when he writes about the prince's debauchery, then he has few church sources that he has become a righteous Christian! And in general, according to the consistent style and some phrases from the article, it is clear that the author is an ardent Stalinist. I am not a zealous anti-communist or anti-Stalinist and I respect the Generalissimo, believing that without Stalin they would have played the war, but I do not agree with the policy towards religion in the 30-60s in the Union.
  49. Leonid1976
    Leonid1976 28 July 2015 15: 27
    +1
    Quote: Perun's grandson
    Quote: Leonid1976
    A relic of ancient times, when the king was a mediator between God and the worn out and saved those faithful to him by performing the appropriate rites.

    The Slavs worshiped the gods as their ancestors and their relatives.
    Do you need an intermediary between you and your ancestors? Personally, I don’t, I communicate with my relatives without any intermediaries. I need intermediaries only for communicating with foreigners as translators.

    What is called feel the difference. A developed religion sets itself the task of connecting with the Creator and achieving eternal life. And occult practices of communication with spirits that can pass themselves off as ancestors.

    Quote: Leonid1976
    The whole history of religion is the search for the Savior. Belief in the mystical role of the monarch persisted for a long time.

    The Slavs lived in harmony with nature. Who or what did they need a supernatural "savior" from? The example with the French king is not the topic. He was just a mediator between the people of France and the biblical god.


    Animals live in harmony. They adapt in nature. The whole history of human civilization is a change in the nature of the species itself.
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 July 2015 16: 55
      +2
      Quote: Leonid1976
      What is called feel the difference. A developed religion sets itself the task of connecting with the Creator and achieving eternal life. And occult practices of communication with spirits that can pass themselves off as ancestors.

      Belief in your god ancestors is not a religion. Feel the difference.
      What religion is to respect and honor your ancestors?
      What kind of faith in their ancestral gods can be religious dogmas and the hierarchy of the Lord - enlightened servants of the Lord - unenlightened slaves of God ??? feel
      What kind of religious intolerance can there be in faith if I love my relatives, you - yours, and no one thinks of stupidity to declare "your relatives are filthy pagan, you must hate them, but you must love my relatives"?

      Quote: Leonid1976
      Animals live in harmony. They adapt in nature. The whole history of human civilization is a change in the nature of the species itself.

      Nature is our home. And the fact that the so-called "human civilization", changing for itself, destroys its home does not honor it. Poisoning the air in your home, destroying plants and demolishing load-bearing walls is the path of foolish consumers and suicides. fool
      Our ancestors were neither consumers nor suicides. Therefore, they lived in harmony with nature. Like animals wink
    2. Ponomarev
      Ponomarev 28 July 2015 22: 39
      +2
      It does not interfere. If a person spoils for himself and throws excrement in others, then you will not call this a change in nature for yourself. But this is what we are observing around with regret. Before you change something, you need to understand whether it will be necessary and how it will affect in the future.
  50. Platon Viktorovich
    Platon Viktorovich 28 July 2015 16: 13
    -3
    The author draws conclusions at the schoolchild level without understanding any historical processes, the primitive and groundless level of reasoning causes bewilderment and the thought creeps in that it is hastily written or its author is studying history from notes in the tabloid or yellow press - and for some reason it reminded me painfully “ A dog’s heart ”- where Sharikov advises something to Professor and Dr. Bormental while being confident in his innocence.