A year since the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing-777 in the Donbass. And there are no answers

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Exactly a year ago, a tragedy occurred near Grabovo village near Donetsk with the Malaysian Boeing-777, which followed the route Amsterdam (Schiphol) - Kuala Lumpur. The passengers aboard the 283 and the crew members 15 died. In the list of dead 192 nationals of the Netherlands, 44 - Malaysia, 10 - Britain, 4 - Belgium, 27 Australian citizens, 12 - Indonesia, 4 - Germany, 3 - Philippines, 1 - Canada and 1 - New Zealand.

A year since the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing-777 in the Donbass. And there are no answers


The resonance of this tragedy is enormous, as is the time, which, as it turned out, it is necessary for the “expert commission” to still gather strength and name the real perpetrators of the MH-17 tragedy. The “expert” group itself can be safely entered into the Guinness Book of Records for the unprecedented loss of time during which the “investigation” is underway. And the course of the “investigation” itself, which, even without quotation marks, is somewhat strange to use, makes you think three times about whether it is profitable for the commission to “hurry” at all.

Never new stories civilization investigation into the causes of the crash of an airliner was not carried out by such strange methods and such strange technology. If initially the members of the “expert group” stated that they were prevented from starting investigative actions, fighting in the area of ​​Shakhtersk and Torez, then suddenly it turned out that the “experts” were constantly hindered by something without fighting. - Whether as a bad dancer ... Or as a completely tolerable dancer, who is given a very strange attitude by a personal trainer (instructor).

As a result, what happened happened. From under Grabovo, the neighborhood of which the “valiant” Ukrainian army watered from artillery installations and the MLRS for a long time, the airliner was repeatedly riddled with fragments and striking elements (both during and after the tragedy and after it) to the Netherlands. And, perhaps for the first time in modern practice, the experts announced that they didn’t need all the parts of the crashed Malaysian Airlines plane ... As a result, right on the spot where the debris fell, these same fragments began to be cut by a grinder and cut with pneumatic tools, which For obvious reasons, the number of debris "Boeing" increased significantly.

When the "experts" were asked what to cut, because this could complicate the process of the future layout of aircraft wreckage, the "experts" made round eyes, as if they didn’t understand at all what kind of display- "shmy laying" was in question. Like, what are you talking about - we need to cut pieces into pieces and pieces into pieces so that they stupidly fit into containers ... Layout? .. No, they have not heard ...

As a result, the “display” was made by the representatives of the blogosphere, however, the calculation was not real (well, who would allow bloggers to the “top-secret” hangars in Holland), but virtual. According to LiveJournal, the Boeing 777 17 July 2014 could have been shot down by an Israeli-made air-to-air missile that could appear in transit through Georgia for the Ukrainian Air Force. The version is, in principle, noteworthy, as, indeed, all the other “100 million” versions, but the only problem is that the versions mostly create social networks, blogs and media, and that same “expert committee” for almost a year of its work, except for the epic “the fall of the aircraft was not caused by a piloting error or technical malfunctions, but was the result of hitting a large number of high-energy objects that violated the integrity of the skin on the outside” did not give out. Nothing! In addition to the rumors that are multiplying, of course ...

Well, yes, yes ... - High-energy facilities ... Was it worth it for this to convene a group of "experts", to pay so much salary? As they say, it would be funny if it were not so sad.

The version that the plane was shot down by an Israeli rocket, like any other "remote" version, also looks strange, if only for the simple reason that the bloggers didn’t examine the plane's skin (what was left of it) but the photographs of debris. Okay, the photos, but then again you should not forget that on the wreckage, the photos of which were replicated in the network, you can find not only traces of the very "high-energy" elements that led to the tragedy with MH-17, but also traces of other elements - pieces of ammunition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Guard under which methodically bombard the territory of the fall of the Boeing. Based on this fact, the photographs of the wreckage of the "Boeing" can be seen traces of action even "Israeli rocket", even the Kalashnikov light machine gun ... even fragments under the open sky would lie down for years ... dtst, you could put forward a version that the plane fell completely as a result of "corrosion damage to its individual elements and metal fatigue caused by the conditions of the atmosphere of Donbass" ...

Therefore, all the versions in the style of “an independent expert (whether he is Ukrainian, Russian, American, Dutch or any other), sitting in his office at the computer, came to the conclusion that the plane was shot down by so-and-so so and so ”, sorry, critics do not stand up. These versions may become the links of investigative work, but they obviously cannot claim the ultimate truth. In this case, it is possible to completely slip into believing some “expert” from the Tymchuk category, already a few minutes after the tragedy, who stated that the plane was “shot down by Russian military personnel, secretly (without the knowledge of American spy satellites) carrying whether “Buki”, or “Topol”, or dragging the Bulava dragging, covering it in order to be disguised with fir branches and cow cake (of course, showing off his military tickets and posting the photo on Vkontakte) ...

Well, this is all, as they say, lyrics ... But what about the reality? Actually, there are hundreds of versions - one, the complete lack of answers to the more than reasonable questions of the Russian Defense Ministry regarding the activities of Ukrainian air defense and air forces in the tragedy zone are two. There are three, four, five, and so on. How long does Ukraine need to publish the data of Dnepropetrovsk air traffic controllers? Where are those dispatchers? Why was the Boeing's route changed and laid over the zone of the most active hostilities? Where did the captain of the Ukrainian Air Force, Voloshin, suddenly disappear, on whose departure at the moment of the tragedy the Su-25 points to a witness? How do “experts” in the Netherlands work without laying out fragments of an aircraft, using only a fraction of the fragments of an airliner? And finally, how much more time is needed for these miracle experts to deliver a version not concocted by the American special services, but with real conclusions about the causes of the tragedy (of course, without thoughtful statements about “high-energy facilities” and that they say everything , but you need to wait a little more). Why wait? .. Whistling arthropod from the mountain?

So much so that a year after the tragedy with the MH-17, the relatives of the 18 victims decided to sue Chicago (although Chicago, or the mark of the aircraft ...) for 900 million dollars against Igor Strelkov (Girkin) , who led in July last year, the Ministry of Defense of the DPR. As a “proof of guilt” of Strelkov, his words of the following character, expressed about a year ago, are cited:

In the area of ​​Torez, An-26 aircraft was just shot down, lying somewhere behind the Progress mine. They warned not to fly in our sky. And here is the video confirmation of the next bird-up. The bird fell over the heap, the residential sector is not hooked. Peaceful people are not injured. And also there is information about the second shot down aircraft, like Su.


As they say, we have “exhaustive evidence” before us ... But only the Chicago court was chosen because it would really be “proof” for him, followed by a logical chain in the style of “Strelkov guilty - Strelkov - the then Minister of Defense of the DPR and a citizen of Russia - are guilty DNR and Russia ". Ba-bang: pay 900 quintillion "thalers" and repent, repent, repent ... Well, in addition - the "Putin regime" will not be forgotten, of course ...

Strelkov, by the way, stated that he was not going to comment on these delusional accusations, and complained that British nationals rated their relatives' lives only with money, adding:

This means that good old England no longer exists.


And yet - a year after the tragedy - cries about the need to create an "international tribunal". The Malaysian authorities, in principle, can be understood - they want to clarify the situation. But after all, what is called, a no-brainer - the tribunal will be conducted (if they suddenly go to form) in the image and likeness of the tribunal for the former Yugoslavia - in the sense that they try to put all those who are in the West and his Ukrainian puppets across the throat into the dock . By the way, where are the tribunals for the downed US Iranian plane, for the downed Ukrainian military of the Siberian Airlines Tu-154. Late? Nothing like this. As we are signaled by an international group of "experts", from which Russians, by the way, have excluded, the term "late" is not considered at all in this context ...

In general, just sincerely sorry for people. Dead sorry. And it's a pity for the relatives of the victims, because of them today, someone stubbornly tries to mold another pressure tool, another tool to confirm the “exclusivity” of the notorious world policeman who grabbed for unipolarity ... And people in great grief are ready to succumb to these provocations, which are in no way do not reflect their own interests.

Frankly speaking, I think that even in a year (yes there in a year ...) the very same “international experts” will not tell the whole truth about what happened on July 17 2014 in the sky over the Donbas. They will tell anything, but not the truth. And if only because it was not for this purpose that the “experts” were picked up ... It is said: “Shooters shot down”, and “Russian servicemen with the MES” Buka's gunner for cumulus ”helped him in that ... What about Kiev? Like what ? .. Kiev is "not unaninous" like that of Rafik, for there is "victorious democracy".
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  1. +20
    17 July 2015 06: 02
    What is now called "investigation" is nothing more than a farce. The author is right. The elementary things that needed to be done were not done. Witnesses have not been questioned, no calculations have been made, the commission is not in full force.
    In short, the guilty are appointed. But for some reason they do not agree. Tyagomotin will continue until the complete collapse of Ukraine. Then everything will fall into place.
    1. +5
      17 July 2015 06: 10
      Quote: domokl
      What is now called "investigation" is nothing more than a farce.

      But why? There is a well-developed program for accusing Russia, and this "investigation" is one of its stages. Right now there is a struggle for an "international tribunal", then they will come up with something else. Although everything could already be "preliminary decided" in a month.
      Give a simple answer to a simple question:
      "If the country's leadership knows that fighting is going on in a certain area of ​​its territory, moreover, it loses its combat aircraft there, then why the hell is civil aviation over this area not prohibited? Moreover, a little earlier this ban was made through international bodies. was introduced over another section of "their" territory, where there were no hostilities, but which are also considered "occupied"? That is, how do they know


      "
      1. +4
        17 July 2015 06: 32
        Quote: svp67
        then why the hell are civil aviation flights not prohibited over this area?

        The answer (for the Euro-American layman) is just as simple.
        Civil aircraft fly at an altitude of 9000 meters and above. With even Zsu, such heights are safe. And civilian flights over the territory are very well paid. Money for the new government is needed.
        That is why the version of the "Buk" entry-exit surfaced. But the version with the aircraft is carefully removed from the messages.
        1. +5
          17 July 2015 07: 38
          THE PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN CONGRATULATED KRAINA ON AN ESSENTIAL !!!!
          Twenty-five years ago, on July 16, 1990, the Supreme Council of the Ukrainian SSR adopted the Declaration on State Sovereignty of Ukraine. In fact, it was with this document that the free swimming of Ukraine began, although the republic remained in the USSR for more than a year - the final “independence” came only after the All-Ukrainian referendum in December 1991.
          In 1990, the population of Ukraine was 51,8 million people. As of June 1, 2015, according to Ukrstat, the country lived 42,6 million people.
          Today, the “highest” mortality rate is the highest in Europe (15,7 deaths per 1000 inhabitants). It also ranks first in the world in terms of natural population decline.

          July 9th | 16:41
          The cost of a set of food products for able-bodied individuals in May 2015 was 8 percent higher than the established subsistence minimum for an able-bodied person. This conclusion was made by experts of the public union "Economic Discussion Club", calculating the cost of the food component of the living wage, Interfax-Ukraine reports.
          According to calculations the cost of the set in May amounted to 1313,52 UAH.Whereas the size of the living wage for an able-bodied person in this period amounted to 1218 UAH. per month. It should be noted that in previous years, the cost of a set of food products at a living wage for an able-bodied person was significantly less. So, in May 2000, it amounted to 55 percent, in May 2005 - 60, in May 2010 - 75.
          As you know, the Law of Ukraine "On the Subsistence Minimum" defines the subsistence minimum as a cost value sufficient to ensure the normal functioning of the human body, preserve its health, a set of food products, as well as a minimum set of non-food products and a minimum set of services necessary to meet basic social and cultural needs personality.

          The average old-age pension in 2014 is 1521,66 UAH. (about 4700 rubles). Compared with the previous year, it grew by 57,3 UAH. (180 rub.);The minimum pension in 2015 is established by the Law of Ukraine “On the state budget for 2015”, but cannot be less than the subsistence minimum established for persons who have lost their ability to work. The specified minimum for 2015 is set at 949 UAH. until December 1, 2015 and 1074 UAH. from December 1, 2015.
          dimensions minimum wage established by the law on the state budget. The Law of Ukraine “On the State Budget for 2015” sets the minimum wage: in the amount of the month: January 2015 - December 2015 - 1218 UAH. December 2015 - 1378 UAH.

        2. -3
          17 July 2015 17: 10
          On the day of the anniversary of the Boeing disaster in the Donbass, Australian media released a video shot by militias immediately after the crash of the liner
          On the Web there were footage from the crash site of the Malaysian Boeing in the Donbass, shot by militias immediately after the crash of the airliner. The video was published on the day of the anniversary of the tragedy on the website of the Australian publication News Corp. Australia
          The publication claims that the video at its disposal lasts 17 minutes, but the video has been uploaded to the site for a cut of about 5 minutes. The footage shows how the militias inspect the bags of the passengers of the liner, trying to find out the airplane’s belonging, and photograph the crash site. In parallel, behind the scenes telephone conversations of one of the militia commanders, whose name is not called, are heard.
          On the published record, you hear the commander say that he is at the crash site of a civilian plane and asks his interlocutor: “Is there another plane, or what?” He also asks his interlocutor to keep the cordon and not to let civilians to the scene of the disaster.
          request
          Read more at RBC:
          http://top.rbc.ru/politics/17/07/2015/55a836849a7947be057fc46a
          1. 0
            17 July 2015 21: 50
            This "new" video is actually "new" only for Australians and was first shown on the BBC channel about a month after the catastrophe - filmed by one Englishman (with all the negative moments from the BBC, here they at least tried to show a different opinion)
      2. +9
        17 July 2015 07: 12
        * There is a well-developed program for accusing Russia, and this "investigation" is one of its stages. Right now there is a struggle for an "international tribunal" more... come up with something else.*-February 21, 1973 "Boeing 727" of Libyan Arab Airlineson flight 114 from Tripoli to Cairo via Benghazi. As a result of the loss of orientation, the liner ended up over the Israeli-occupied Sinai Peninsula. Two F-4 Phantom fighters flew towards the Libyan liner. When the Boeing did not respond to either the callsigns or the flapping of its wings (an international signal to follow the fighter), the Israeli pilots fired their cannons. The liner was seriously damaged and made an emergency landing in the Sinai Peninsula. 108 of 113 people on board were killed. Five, including the co-pilot, managed to survive.
        On June 27, 1980, the McDonnell Douglas DC-9-15 airline Aerolinee Itavia crashed into the Tyrrhenian Sea off the west coast of Italy. following flight 870 from Bologna to Palermo, all 77 passengers and 4 crew members were killed. The first investigation did not bring results, giving rise to many unofficial, including quite conspiracy, versions of what happened. In 1987, a parliamentary commission stated that the airliner was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile. In 2011, the Palermo court concluded that the authorities were unable to ensure the safety of flight 870, and also concealed part of the evidence in the case, and ordered the Italian government to pay 137 million to the families of the victims Euro. Later, this decision was upheld by a criminal court of higher jurisdiction, whose judges stated that the liner, of course, was shot down by a rocket. Who exactly released it is still not known.
        July 3, 1988 Iran Airbus A300 operated flight 655 from Tehran to Dubai with a landing in Bendar Abbas. During the flight, the liner had to cross the strategically important Strait of Hormuz, in which the American missile cruiser Vincennes was at that moment. In a tense situation caused by the escalation of hostilities between Iran and Iraq, the ship's crew mistook the approaching airliner at a relatively low altitude for an Iranian F-14 fighter that was about to attack Vincennes, and fired two anti-aircraft missiles at it. One of them hit the target, the plane fell apart in the air. All 290 people on board were killed.
        October 4, 2001 Tu-154 of Siberia Airlinesflying flight 1812 from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk, fell into the Black Sea 200 kilometers west of Sochi. 78 people were killed, the bulk were Israeli citizens. Initially, a version was considered of a terrorist attack and a catastrophic accident on board, but soon, thanks to data provided by the United States, it became clear that the airliner, flying at an altitude of 11 kilometers, was hit by an anti-aircraft missile launched during the Ukrainian air defense exercises in Crimea. Analysis of the fuselage fragments showed that the Tu-154 was shot down by the S-200 anti-aircraft missile system.
        The government of Ukraine has formally apologized to the people of Israel and paid the families of the victims $ 200 thousand each. Despite this, Kiev did not fully admit that the airliner was shot down by the Ukrainian military - an examination carried out in 2008 concluded that the plane was not shot down by a rocket, but Ukrainian courts of various instances refused several times to compensate Siberia Airlines for damage.Right after the disaster President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma stated: “See what is happening around the world? We are not the first and not the last, no need to make a tragedy out of this. Mistakes happen everywhere and not only on such a scale, but on a much larger, planetary scale. ”
        1. -12
          17 July 2015 07: 43
          For objectivity, you forgot to add a Korean airplane to this list, which our pilots valnuli ...
          1. 0
            17 July 2015 08: 47
            A Korean Boeing shot down Gene Osipovich on the Su 15 from the Sokol airfield on Sakhalin.
            1. +5
              17 July 2015 11: 10
              Actually, Osipovich shot down a reconnaissance aircraft based on a Boeing 707. Most likely nobody will know what happened to kal-007. The debris from that Boeing was found on the shores of Japan, which is not physically possible if the Boeing were shot down near Sakhalin Island from south to north. There is a book of the Frenchman - (Michel Brun Sakhalin incident) which 30 years that searches for that liner
              1. -3
                17 July 2015 13: 22
                That is, following your logic, the Yankees shot down a plane with the Koreans, while simultaneously launching a reconnaissance aircraft in order to provoke. Just fiends. RAVE.
                1. 0
                  17 July 2015 21: 56
                  Not entirely nonsense. The events of that night were even called "the battle for Sakhalin" because there were several foreign planes. Yes, and there seemed to be more than one shot down, but the Korean Boeing ... it is not clear where
          2. +4
            17 July 2015 11: 00
            Quote: Sharapov
            For objectivity, you forgot to add to this list a Korean airplane, which our pilots valnuli

            Just for objectivity, the murky and clearly provocative story with the South Korean Boeing, which covered the Amer’s intelligence, should not be included in this list.
          3. 0
            17 July 2015 14: 41
            Quote: Sharapov
            For objectivity, you forgot to add a Korean airplane to this list, which our pilots valnuli ...

            There were also American fighter jets spinning and a scout based on the Boeing-707 was.
            And after the incident in Europe, Pershing and Tomahawks appeared
        2. +3
          17 July 2015 07: 53
          Quote: Fantik13
          Immediately after the disaster, Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma said: “See what is happening around the world? We are not the first and not the last, do not make a tragedy out of this. Mistakes happen everywhere and not only on such a scale, but on a much larger, planetary scale ”

          GOLD THE WORDS , Leonid Danilovich! You need to be quoted in the UN when they vote for the creation of the Boeing Tribunal, with the wording: "As an act that threatens peace," and not an ordinary incident in the DB zone Yes ...
        3. +1
          17 July 2015 11: 36
          Quote: article
          The Boeing 777 on July 17, 2014 could be shot down by an Israeli-made air-to-air missile, which could appear at the Ukrainian Air Force in transit through Georgia.

          There are very strong suspicions that the Python missiles came directly from Israel.
          Our version:
          Experts: Malaysian Boeing shot down by Israeli Python missile

          But Ukraine and Israel are once again discussing cooperation:
          Ukrainian authorities: Lieberman with Yatsenyuk discussed military cooperation
          Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman, who is on an official visit in Kiev, met with Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk. They discussed issues of enhancing cooperation in economic and military technology, the press service of the government of Ukraine.
          http://izrus.co.il/dvuhstoronka/article/2015-02-12/26888.html
          But Ukraine and Israel swear eternal friendship:
          Cooperation between Israel and Ukraine goes to a new level
          Minister of Aliyah and Absorption Zeev Elkin held a meeting in Jerusalem with the honorary consul of Israel in the Western region of Ukraine Oleg Vishnyakov.
          We have been fruitfully cooperating for the good of Israel and Ukraine for many years. This cooperation has been tested by time, and I am more than sure that relations between our countries will begin to develop at a more serious pace, said Oleg Vishnyakov.
          http://cursorinfo.co.il/news/novosti1/2015/07/07/sotrudnichestvo-izrailya-i-ukra
          ini-vihodit-na-noviy-uroven /
          And if you "remember" who is at the head of Ukraine, then the military cooperation between Ukraine and Israel, as well as the various provocations carried out by the Ukrainian regime, in particular with the downing of the Boeing, apparently by the Israeli Piton missile, is not so incredible.
          1. +1
            19 July 2015 17: 13
            These are the exit holes from 30mm shells (and their fragments) of the Su-25 air gun that came into the tail to attack MH17.
            http://www.rt.com/shows/documentary/197540-mh-17-crash-ukraine/
            video for October 2014, "really have not seen"?
            Something besides them could still fly in, but this is not so important - shrapnel warheads of Buka, RVV and MANPADS are several times smaller in diameter.

            Buk (if it was used) could be finished off by ukrovoyaki to prevent Boeing from falling into Russian airspace and falling into Russian territory, because then there would be a completely different investigation. Could with a shot cabin and itself fall apart from the air pressure at that speed.
            If someone from the militia fired in already falling (downed) plane from MANPADS then "it's okay."
      3. +1
        17 July 2015 09: 08
        Quote: svp67
        “If the country's leadership knows that there are hostilities in a certain area of ​​its territory, moreover, it loses its combat aircraft there, then why the hell is civil aviation not prohibited from flying over this area?


        Yes, the obvious thing is the one who allowed the flight over the war zone is to blame. But it is obvious only to us ....
    2. -20
      17 July 2015 08: 20
      They filed a lawsuit in the Chicago court, since an international convention on civil aviation was signed there. And not because everything was bought and politicized there, as the author says ...

      The outcome of the investigation is understandable, even logically.
      The DPR and LPR do not have an Air Force, the Russian Air Force planes in no way will invade the territory of Ukraine, otherwise all the tales that our troops are not there will collapse like a house of cards. And this will be direct evidence of aggression.

      Therefore, to have air defense and airplanes with air-to-air missiles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the conflict zone does not make any sense, even theoretical!

      But you need to shoot down Ukrainian transport and attack aircraft - it’s clear to anyone. Another thing is that they missed. Happenes...
      1. +3
        17 July 2015 09: 07
        What a wonderful logic)) Are you not embarrassed by the constant statements of Ukrainian officials that they are at war with the Russian Armed Forces, just like last year they shouted that they were being bombed by the Russian Air Force, and they even shoot down something? And, of course, you do not believe the data of the Ministry of Defense that the Buk air defense systems of Ukraine located in this area were actively working (in the sense of their radars) these days)) And the cries of Ukrainian officials, starting from June 2014 that the "separatists" air defense systems appeared, capable of shooting down planes at high altitudes, do not mean anything to themselves, because they sent Boeing directly into the combat area, having unsubscribed about the "separatist" Buki an hour before the disaster. And you are serious about the logic in relation to the actions of the current Ukrainian "authorities" ??
        1. -2
          17 July 2015 09: 19
          Quote: nekot
          What a beautiful logic)) And you are not confused by the constant statements of Ukrainian officials that they are fighting with the Russian Armed Forces, just like last year they shouted that they were being bombed by the Russian Air Force, and they even shot down something? And naturally


          No one ever said that aircraft of the Russian Armed Forces fly over the territory of Donbas! Even Psaki didn’t say this, from whom else to expect mystical miracles? They ate only from Latvia, but they are silent.

          Quote: nekot
          You do not believe the data of the Ministry of Defense that the Buk air defense systems of Ukraine, located in this area, were actively working (in the sense of their radars) these days))


          No, since there was no one to shoot down there. And there is no sense in these complexes. And why didn’t they drive C-300 there, why are the beeches then - if these are Ukrainian troops ???

          Quote: nekot
          And the cries of Ukrainian officials, starting from June 2014 that the "separatists" had air defense systems capable of shooting down planes at high altitude, mean nothing to themselves, because they sent Boeing directly into the area of ​​hostilities, having unsubscribed about the "separatist "Beeches.


          I do not condone the actions of the Ukrainian authorities, and this blame lies with them as well! And you need to judge them first!

          Quote: nekot
          And you are serious about the logic in relation to the actions of the current Ukrainian "authorities" ??


          Do you seriously believe Kisilev, or maybe M. Leontiev? I do not, neither one nor the other. Marginals are full of both there and there. And there is no black and white - as they try to prove to us! There is only gray !!!
          1. -3
            17 July 2015 09: 30
            Read the selection (you can still find a lot of similar ones): http://kiev1.org/russkie-bombyat-ukrainu-i-sbivayut-samolety.html
            Just 15.07 and we are talking about Snow.
            By the way, all this informational background fits perfectly into the logic of provocation.
            For lack of true information, it is difficult to talk about the meaning of these complexes: the meanings can be very different. Regarding the S-300 - do you know for sure that at that time Ukraine had combat-ready S-300s ??

            1. -3
              17 July 2015 09: 51
              Quote: nekot
              Read the selection (you can still find a lot of similar ones): http://kiev1.org/russkie-bombyat-ukrainu-i-sbivayut-samolety.html
              Just 15.07 and we are talking about Snow.

              The portal will give odds to Kiselev! There were no real statements and no. Detecting aircraft and proving is much easier than tanks. Only our reason will be given and sanctions worse than Iran will be.

              Quote: nekot
              By the way, all this informational background fits perfectly into the logic of provocation.

              No, the risk is too great. In 08.08.08, it somehow did not work out, although a provocation could be made much easier.
              Then you can drop a bomb from B-2 on Talin and say that the Russians are bombing from Tu-160 ... This is a provocation that we should have.

              Quote: nekot
              Regarding the C-300 - do you know for sure that at that time Ukraine had combat-ready C-300 ??

              What is the controversy about? Do you know that the beeches were combat-ready?

              If they were actually bombed by the Russian Air Force, then not only the combat-ready C-300 were standing there, there would be brand new Patriot, there were on every corner. And in the black season, a couple of dozen Arly Berkov with SM-3 ...
              1. 0
                17 July 2015 10: 38
                Nevertheless, the informational background on this subject was constantly being pumped up.
                Well, find the aircraft, so what? Recording radar readings? Accidentally flew in, or in general it was Ukrainian aircraft)) They took out contractors, how much noise was there, and what is the result?

                08.08.08/154/XNUMX is a slightly different provocation, but for some time they everywhere shouted that Russia was an aggressor. The bomb on Tallinn - why? In Ukraine, what is the risk? There are military operations, errors can be on both sides, the main thing is to give an informational occasion. Tu-XNUMX when shot down in peacetime and then they had nothing.

                The S-300 is more complicated, more expensive and fewer, I did not start talking about them)))
                Actually bombed and be prepared to repel aircraft raids in the context of the possible introduction of Russian troops in Ukraine are two big differences. And Patriot batteries won't come out of nowhere instantly. but, in general, I agree with Guney that you can argue endlessly, there is no accurate information - the rest is a matter of faith.
              2. 0
                17 July 2015 14: 38
                Quote: Falcon
                Then you can drop a bomb from B-2 on Talin and say that the Russians are bombing from the Tu-160 ... This is a provocation that we should have

                not yet evening...
                Quote: Falcon
                If they were actually bombed by the Russian Air Force, then not only the combat-ready C-300 were standing there, there would be brand new Patriot, there were on every corner. And in the black season, a couple of dozen Arly Berkov with SM-3 ...

                why wasn’t there in Georgia?
            2. 0
              17 July 2015 11: 14
              Well, now there are combat-ready c300s on the border with Transnistria
          2. +1
            17 July 2015 10: 09
            The fact of the matter is that EVERYTHING slides to the question of faith! You believe in it, but I for one do not! BUT, you must admit, the investigation is turned into a farce, and if there is 100% proof that it is Russia, why they don’t show it !? And why APU can’t answer the fairly simple 10 questions of the RF Ministry of Defense?! Well and further down the list. Kisilev and Schuster have such a job, they have NO gray by definition! Yes, and do not need GRAY, it costs too much. It all started, in my opinion look, not in Grabovo, but earlier, in Lugansk. I want to see the MANPADS operator, who at night, in wild cloud cover, from an altitude of 4600 meters, blocked IL-76 !!!!! Probably EXACTLY in the crew commander! HA HA HA! And you are right, in one, hypocrisy has become the norm. And people's lives are not worth a penny !!!
            1. 0
              17 July 2015 10: 23
              Thank you, get ahead)) I agree that for every faith version you can find a lot of justification and rejection is caused precisely by hype and unconfirmed evidence of accusation on both sides, so the link to the logic in the absence of real information is unfounded.
              1. 0
                17 July 2015 11: 06
                I think there is infa! It's just that people like Falcon, adherents of GRAY, say they say it’s not all clear, let’s discuss, let’s weigh everything! In short, the BAZAAR begins, and so the meaning of the conversation is lost. few remember that in England in the 60s of the last century, pedarasts were sent to prison! And then blah blah blah started, and now if you're not a fagot, you're not normal! Of course WAR is a muddy affair, and for tractor drivers and miners it’s too much, BUT in a century when EVERYTHING and with us and under their hoods, do not have proof who dumped Bong, to put it mildly, is not true !!!! There is evidence for it, SO SHOW !!! Here's the question!
            2. 0
              17 July 2015 11: 18
              There is a question, or rather 2 .... how does cloudiness interfere with the thermal homing of the MANPADS rocket? And why did you decide that the IL-76 was shot down with one missile, and not three for example?
              1. 0
                17 July 2015 11: 56
                From the end. According to the conclusions of the UKRAINIAN commission, the plane was shot down by one missile at an altitude of 4600, although the ceiling of the Igla's operation is 3500. The clouds do not interfere with the head, it interferes with the operator. Even if they were on a distant glide path, to hit the opposite side of such a side, at least his you need to see, because in this situation, the homing of the head is equal to zero. If they hit, as usual, in pursuit, then the height should be much lower, and even if three missiles hit, such a side as Il could easily land. But again, visual contact with the target is needed. Therefore, my personal opinion , the board was DESTROYED by the Ukrainians themselves! Well, I hope you remember further events?
                1. 0
                  17 July 2015 22: 15
                  According to the conclusions of the UKRAINIAN commission ... psaki level, excuse me ... glide path at an altitude of 4600 ???
          3. +1
            17 July 2015 11: 41
            Quote: Falcon
            No one ever said that aircraft of the Russian Armed Forces fly over the territory of Donbas!

            Poor you know Ukraine ...
            Yes, at the OFFICIAL LEVEL, they did not. And in the news releases, after the bombardment of the still sleeping Snezhny, they said that the RUSSIAN Air Force was BOMBING ...



            Look, and pick up MIND - MIND ... PERSONAL FOR YOU, with 0: 48 ...

            1. -3
              17 July 2015 11: 59
              Quote: Tanais
              Look, and pick up MIND - MIND ... PERSONAL FOR YOU, with 0: 48 ...


              It is a pity that you are gaining your mind with propaganda.

              Your videos are of little interest to me, or do you prefer to look at facts on a Facebook like Psaki?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. 0
                17 July 2015 12: 29
                Quote: Falcon
                It is a pity that you are gaining your mind with propaganda.

                Your videos are of little interest to me, or do you prefer to look at facts on a Facebook like Psaki?


                I was a day before the attack in Snezhnoye, the humanitarian aid was transported to the militia, and I was at the site of the house later this year ...
                For starters, you would know who you are talking to, and the level of competence of a vis-a-vis before you hang up labels ...


                But the videos are not mine. They are really from the network, but reflect what you do not want to see.

                For those who want to see:
                1. -1
                  17 July 2015 13: 04
                  Quote: Tanais
                  I was a day before the attack in Snezhnoye, the humanitarian aid was transported to the militia, and I was at the site of the house later this year ...
                  For starters, you would know who you are talking to, and the level of competence of a vis-a-vis before you hang up labels ...


                  But the videos are not mine. They are really from the network, but reflect what you do not want to see.


                  Well done, that was. Then what?
                  I argued that Ukrainians do not carry strikes on the territory of Donbas? - not.
                  I argued that they have honest television? - not.
                  What is the essence and what's new in them? What do you need to see from there?
                  What Ukrainian propaganda exposes bud-it is the Russian bombing? - Well, I do not argue and?

                  What does this have to do with official statements and the fall of the Boeing?

                  You yourself have proved my theory that there is nothing for the beech of Ukraine to do there ...
                  1. 0
                    17 July 2015 13: 27
                    Quote: Falcon

                    No one ever said that aircraft of the Russian Armed Forces fly over the territory of Donbas!



                    Quote: Falcon
                    What does this have to do with official statements and the fall of the Boeing?

                    It is you, you translate your statement that "RF aviation -" UAVs, UAVs, UAVs ... ", into the plane of" Boeing fall "...

                    I brought you facts (based on the first quote) from Ukrainian sources, indicating that they claimed the use of aviation in the Russian Federation, shifting everything from a sore point to a healthy one ...
                    1. -1
                      17 July 2015 13: 37
                      Quote: Tanais
                      I brought you facts (based on the first quote) from Ukrainian sources, indicating that they claimed the use of aviation in the Russian Federation, shifting everything from a sore point to a healthy one ...


                      I say that it is necessary to distinguish propaganda media and marginal portals from officials.

                      It is quite simple to prove the presence of aviation of the RF Armed Forces to both Ukraine and the States, and if it really appears there, it will not seem enough. I think this is just waiting.
                      And everything else is just a * fuck * journalism without evidence.
      2. 0
        17 July 2015 11: 13
        Only transporters and attack aircraft did not work so high, that's why militias completely managed
      3. old
        0
        17 July 2015 11: 32
        Your strange liberalistic logic is refuted by the pictures of Russian spy satellites, where on this ill-fated day, not far from the explosion point of M17, a beech battery of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was photographed, as well as electronic intelligence data of the RF Armed Forces, which recorded the flights of the Air Force fighters and the operation of the radars included in the complex of these fucking "beeches" ... Another question is if you are zombified by the Ukrainian and Western media - then they have the same logic "the militias and Russia are to blame" ...
        1. -5
          17 July 2015 11: 51
          Quote: oldy
          Your strange liberalistic logic is refuted by the pictures of Russian spy satellites, where on this ill-fated day, not far from the explosion point of M17, a beech battery of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was photographed, as well as electronic intelligence data of the RF Armed Forces, which recorded the flights of the Air Force fighters and the operation of the radars included in the complex of these fucking "beeches" ... Another question is if you are zombified by the Ukrainian and Western media - then they have the same logic "the militias and Russia are to blame" ...


          Your strange authoritarian logic is refuted by the Buk's pictures of the militia, the data of the Donbas residents who saw the Buk, the pictures of the RF Ministry of Defense of the attack aircraft, the pictures of the RF Ministry of Defense of the fighter, the data of the RF Ministry of Defense that they detected the attack aircraft in the MH17 area, and they also detected the beech locator, And a lot of data from the RF Ministry of Defense, which they themselves cannot understand. And the electronic scan was probably received from the Tu-204, which a year later flew at the borders ... Another question is if you are zombified by the state media of the Russian Federation with the 1st 2nd and the NTV, and suffer from Kiselevo-love - then they have the same logic "Us everyone wants to kill, Putin is the king, there are fascists everywhere, the USA is to blame for everything "
          1. 0
            17 July 2015 12: 09
            The United States is not guilty of anything, they are not watching anyone, they are not fighting anywhere, and they don’t have military bases at all! People with torches and a swastika don’t go around Kiev, Lviv, Dnepropetrovsk, WWII veterans aren’t beaten! Putin is not KING, he is PRESIDENT RF, although I personally did not vote for him, neither the first nor the second time, BUT I am obliged to respect the choice of the majority, because THIS IS DEMOCRACY! Drop all of us, love and don’t wish us harm, the stoves of Dakhu and Maydenek have not cooled yet! And the village of Khatyn was burned not by Ukrainians-traitors, but by the Martians! Kisilev, of course, LIAR, Schuster is the truth
          2. 0
            17 July 2015 14: 35
            pictures of the "beech" of the militia appeared two days earlier and were accompanied by comments that, unfortunately, it was out of whack (payments for gold and rare earth metals were simply stolen)
      4. 0
        17 July 2015 13: 14
        Falcon, what are you smoking with Yaytsenyuh?
        1. 0
          17 July 2015 13: 27
          Quote: NKVD
          Falcon, what are you smoking with Yaytsenyuh?

          In more than one post I did not justify the Ukrainian government, and even more so Yatsenyuk. If this is hard to understand, then try reading several times.

          The trouble is that our position is no better than the western one and has never reflected the whole picture, just the opposite.

          And if you revised Kiselyov, and the struggle for Putin’s rating and the welfare of those close to him is the main thing for you, then I'm sorry. Patriotism is good for the country and not for kings.
          1. 0
            17 July 2015 14: 08
            The trouble is that "dear" Falcon, precisely in your position! You can not love Putin and Co., but you must respect the choice of the majority! And if today you admit the possibility of participating in the MASS MURDER of my country, then personally you are a traitor for me !!!! These bastards and for Tu have been unlocking for a long time, and then they say IT WAS THIS, with whom does not happen !!! Remember people like you, these creatures will kill first!
            1. -4
              17 July 2015 14: 34
              Quote: Gunia
              The trouble is that "dear" Falcon, precisely in your position! You may not like Putin and Co., but you must respect the choice of the majority!


              The choice of the majority under autocratic rule and our media cannot be by definition. You did not look at the webcam pictures in the elections? They showed a lot of interesting things. And what else could not detect ... But unfortunately they did not show it on the first channel, here yes ...

              Quote: Gunia
              And if today you admit the possibility of participating in the MASSIVE KILLING of my country, then you are personally a traitor to me !!!!

              It is not the country that needs to be judged, but those who give such orders. Hitler is not Germany, just like Putin is not Russia. It’s a pity that you don’t understand this ...
              Yes, even if the Pope let me be, it’s not cold nor hot.

              Quote: Gunia
              Remember people like you, these creatures will be killed first!

              In the first posts you seemed more reasonable. But the hysteria of propaganda prevailed.
      5. +1
        17 July 2015 22: 09
        As if Ukrainian logic has no normal relationship ...
        And the Ukrainian military, in order to hide the losses of aviation from the rebels, at all levels complained about losses from mythical Russian fighters ... further, the ingenious Ukrainian leadership, in response to the mythical Russian air threat, sends air defense systems into the conflict zone (to protect against the Russian air force ...), which is noted by Russia in the report on the deployment of ukrainian air defense systems (according to intelligence) on the day of the disaster. And then, if we take into account the "enviable" combat training of the Ukrainian air defense crews and the change in the route by the dispatcher ...
    3. +2
      17 July 2015 08: 30
      The examination does not provide either a legal assessment or indications of a guilty party. This does not apply to its competence. And since it has a political order, it will be composed in such a way that it would be convenient for the customer to interpret the conclusions in the direction necessary for himself and at the same time not to lose his face. So experts have a very difficult task in this regard.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        17 July 2015 09: 36
        Why am I doing this? I'm not a Boeing expert. laughing Or have you seen enough of the "FES" series, in which the experts themselves catch, appoint the culprit, sit down and carry out examinations along the way? Well then in the cinema! laughing
      3. 0
        17 July 2015 11: 37
        Quote: siberalt
        The examination does not provide either a legal assessment or indications of a guilty party. This does not apply to its competence. And since she has a political order ...
        So, experts have a very difficult task in this regard.

        Not at all! Indeed, in this situation, experts, as such, are not needed at all. smile
    4. +1
      17 July 2015 10: 56
      Quote: domokl
      What is now called "investigation" is nothing more than a farce. The author is right. The elementary things that needed to be done were not done. Witnesses have not been questioned, no calculations have been made, the commission is not in full force.
      - I think that the material that was received in the early days was enough from the strength of the week to understand who is guilty of the tragedy.
      But publication would mean a complete failure of the American operation "Ukraine".
      Not only that - the performers would give true, overseas customers of this action.

      The long term is due to the careful preparation of misinformation and the choice of political conditions and the exact time of the attack.

      Quote: domokl
      Tyagomotin will continue until the complete collapse of Ukraine. Then everything will fall into place.
      - Again, I do not agree - the fact of the downed Boeing is not given due importance in the Russian press - this is much more serious than just an accusation.

      A decisive, most powerful attack and occasion is being prepared - the Boeing.
      And this will not end with the closure of the Ukraine project - on the contrary, it is just a fallback option to attach this terrorist attack to the "collapse" of Ukraine by Russia.

      No matter how pessimistic this sounds - there is a rapid escalation of the confrontation.
      And both sides do not have time: the United States, in order to strangle Russia with "little blood", Russia - to gather all the fingers into a fist - the liberals and Serdyukovs ruled for too long, and even now they continue to steer in many ways.

      And it is necessary to embed so that the Anglo-Saxons for about a hundred years at the very thought of a confrontation with Russia drop their glasses with cola from their hands. Since these Anglo-Saxons had never seriously fought like this - one on one and did not get what they deserved.
  2. +5
    17 July 2015 06: 03
    Of the latest reports, I was most surprised by the ... Chicago court - despite the fact that not a single American was among the passengers? Is there a hat on a thief?
    1. +1
      17 July 2015 12: 18
      Quote: alex-cn
      Of the latest reports, I was most surprised by the ... Chicago court - despite the fact that not a single American was among the passengers? Is there a hat on a thief?
      "Lawyer Floyd Wisner, who initiated the filing of the lawsuit, referred to the American law on the protection of victims of torture, which allows you to sue citizens of other countries in the US courts" (the lawsuit was filed, but not yet accepted for production, and it is not a fact that it will be) - this is you surprised.

      And in the Russian Federation Savchenko is being tried (there are rumors that he escaped), who has not committed any crimes on the territory of the Russian Federation, and whose actions are not subject to the jurisdiction of Russian courts - did this surprise you? laughing

      The oligarchies divide the loot and the spheres of influence, palm off on the peoples primitive justifications for their actions, and even more primitive explanations of why they are good and other oligarchies are bad.
      And the peoples are happy to lead, and this already surprises me.
      1. 0
        17 July 2015 15: 23
        At least she is charged with involvement in the murder of two Russian citizens.
        1. -2
          17 July 2015 17: 27
          Quote: alex-cn
          At least she is charged with involvement in the murder of two Russian citizens.
          On the territory of the Russian Federation? No.

          This is a murder charge - "Markin said that according to the investigation, during the war in the Lugansk region in June 2014 Savchenko, having learned the coordinates of the location of a group of Russian journalists of VGTRK and other civilians near Lugansk, handed them over to Ukrainian armed forces. "? Definitely not.

          But this, in fact, is not particularly important, since the fact that the incidents of the Russian legal system do not surprise you, and the claim of foreign citizens filed on the territory of a foreign state in accordance with the laws of that state, for some reason is surprising.
          1. +1
            17 July 2015 22: 23
            Why are the incidents of the American system not bothering you? Arrests of citizens of other states abroad and extradition to the usa for trial? Hit a Fifa? And other examples ... That is, if the Americans do it, this is justice, and when others do it, it’s a violation of human rights and democracy
            Just the last lawsuit - what does the United States have to do with Boeing? They are not the owners of the aircraft, departure and landing are not in the territory of the United States, Americans do not seem to be among the passengers. So let them let the Dutch finish ... but no, you have to stick your nose. And help sixes from Kiev?
            1. 0
              18 July 2015 02: 21
              Quote: ArikKhab
              Why are the incidents of the American system not bothering you?
              Why should they bother me?

              That is, if the Americans do it, this is justice, and when others do it, this is a violation of human rights and democracy
              Wipe your eyes and re-read the written.

              As for the rest of the text of your comment, there is no need to express my complaints and questions that you have to the United States - express them to the US Embassy.
  3. +1
    17 July 2015 06: 11
    The Dutch "experts" have already "appointed" the guilty Russia, whether it had given the Buk air defense system to the militias of Novorossiya. CNN is in its repertoire. Russophobes raise their glasses. After all, no matter how this dirty story ends, "chocolate" in Russia will be poured in buckets.
    1. +1
      17 July 2015 22: 27
      The Dutch incidentally did not confirm the data cnn
  4. +2
    17 July 2015 06: 13
    Never in the new history of civilization has the investigation of the causes of the crash of an airliner been conducted by such strange methods and by such strange technology.


    You can add and so classified. From whom do they hide the truth? Answer: from their own citizens.

    They really want an international tribunal. I believe that if it comes to the creation of a tribunal, Russia MANDATORY to raise all the materials of the previous downed planes and judge ALL involved.
  5. 0
    17 July 2015 06: 32
    Why not, Russia and the separatists it supports are to blame. And Poroshenko said this immediately after receiving information about the fallen Boeing. And no truth and witnesses will change anything - as long as they can be bought for green paper!
  6. +1
    17 July 2015 06: 48
    however, this is such a product that will come out anyway, no matter how you try to hide it, the courts, tribunals, nothing more than a trick of the real culprits of the tragedy, will be even funnier and more tragic when the tribunal still finds out who is to blame: with the performer everything is less and less clearly, this is a criminal pro-fascist Ukrainian regime of power and its Armed Forces, the organizer ... but the most interesting thing is that the EU knew about this operation from the very beginning to the end, as they say "the end justifies the means," and who are the judges ...
  7. +5
    17 July 2015 06: 50
    The Americans came up with a win-win option. The issue of the international tribunal will be promoted and submitted to
    voting in the UN Security Council. If Russia vetoes, then it "admits its guilt," and if it votes "for," then
    will become for many years a "whipping boy" as the leadership of Yugoslavia. The investigation has been going on for a year, but the trial will last for years and stones will fall into the Russian vegetable garden.
  8. +4
    17 July 2015 06: 55
    And do not go to the fortuneteller
    Find the type of fragments
    And then the answer will come
    Who ditched the plane
  9. +3
    17 July 2015 06: 59
    Citizens, dear, and what - did someone doubt the process and its outcome? Aw, answer me, naive! fool
    We raise our hand - and together with a strong word we sharply lower it. And "we go" further, worries (on "VO" laughing ) - IN!
  10. +3
    17 July 2015 07: 12
    Vile, bloody affair. As for the Israeli-made Air-to-Air missiles with a Georgian trace (there the Sushki were modernized for the installation of such missiles) - there is no need to comment on this. Find and interrogate the pilot.
    And such a chain of events seems to me. The militias began to effectively free the sky from the flying Ukrop iron. MANPADS systems, which were used very effectively. The Ukrop pilots, in order to justify the losses and themselves to excuse themselves from accusations of incompetence, invented a legend about Russian fighters that shoot them down. To counter these virtual fighters, air defense units armed with Buks were urgently put forward. No one had a shadow of doubt - Russia had attacked dill, which means that its military aviation is flying here.
    Well, then, when there are so many complex equipment in the hands of poorly trained Banderlogists, who have nothing to do in the open field, the notorious "monkey with a grenade" nervously smokes on the sidelines. Some - introduced air defense units - and did not warn the dispatching service that air defense units were on alert in the area.
    Others, looking with interest at almost unfamiliar devices, pressed buttons and flipped toggle switches, scrutinized indistinguishable marks on radar screens. As a result, almost three hundred people died. All that is later is the active "stretching" of the facts for the situation. And this is a "pseudo-investigation", and the shelling of the areas where the debris falls by the Ukrop artillery - why? There was no military necessity for this. And so on and so forth...
    1. +4
      17 July 2015 07: 49
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Vile, bloody affair.
      Find and interrogate the pilot.

      As for the pilot, there are probably two options, IMHO:
      - not the fact that he is alive
      - if alive, then most likely somewhere beyond the hillock (for example, in the country of maple leaf) with a small plastic on the face.
      Most likely, no one will find out. The "bloody aggressor" has already been identified - Russia.
      1. +1
        17 July 2015 09: 13
        Most likely, no one will find out. The "bloody aggressor" has already been identified - Russia.


        The Australian Foreign Ministry has already identified the perpetrators.
        I think that even without reading it can be assumed that there are few options - he is one. And who is guilty, I think, is also clear.
  11. felixis69
    +2
    17 July 2015 07: 20
    It is strange in general that the question is being raised - who shot down the plane ?! First of all, the Ukrainian authorities should get under the tribunal for having given permission to fly an aircraft in the combat zone, and secondly, the management of the airline should get under the tribunal for the fact that, proceeding from their mercantile interests, chasing profit, they sent the plane along a short paths through the war zone. And no excuses like "the plane was within reach of the missiles available" should not be taken into account. This is a war zone! And there were many factors, besides the missiles themselves, that could endanger the lives of passengers and pilots!
  12. 0
    17 July 2015 07: 27
    But there are no answers... Well .. but no, the DNI was shot down from a slingshot, and the Buryat Marines carried out corrections from the balloon ..
  13. +1
    17 July 2015 07: 55
    Nothing human remains in the western world,
    The tragedy with the downed plane was turned into a farce: they did not really collect the remains of the dead and made dances on the bones.
    What doesn’t happen when the meaning of life is in tireless worries about satisfying the ass - if only the brain did not work.
  14. 0
    17 July 2015 07: 56
    Not everything is clear with the passengers of the liner - there was evidence, by the way, from Strelkov himself, that the dead had died long before the accident. Why did they not show the crowds of relatives at the airport, accompanied by doctors and psychologists, only a story flashed about the mother of the deceased pilot, and the rest were orphans? In general, the fall of Boeing is just the final of a major provocation, similar to the tragedy with the WTC towers.
  15. +1
    17 July 2015 08: 26
    And it seems to me that soon there will be a second Snowdon that will provide satellite images with satellite reference and indication and negotiations, and much more.
  16. +1
    17 July 2015 08: 58
    don't get it wrong. but Russia reminds me of that fat boy from American films. he is very strong but suffers everything. he is humiliated at school, beaten even by weaklings, spit on him. and he endures and endures. and gives change already when the viewer reaches for the remote control to turn off this shame. so I already turned it off, but there’s no change.
    DISCOUNT ON GAS FOR THESE BADGERS.
  17. +1
    17 July 2015 09: 00
    Personally, I do not believe in a fair investigation of the catastrophe, if there were less politics, ambitions of individual rulers, more objectivity then we could talk about something. Most likely this plane crash will remain an unsolved mystery.
    1. +1
      17 July 2015 10: 18
      Yes, there is no secret for tall people there, they all knew BEFORE what had happened, because the route of this flight was changed, it was a sacrifice to kill, if anyone doesn’t remember, then the APU was hollowed in boilers so the devils in hell were already fucked up by the influx of customers , and it was necessary something urgent so that hostilities would stop, so that they would not finish the Ukrainian army until the end, and then a Boeing happened, which did not fly as it did before. followed by a ceasefire (although it continued on, but not on such a scale). and the remains of ukrovoenof managed to save their skins.
      1. 0
        17 July 2015 14: 20
        Bold PLUS !!!!!!
  18. +2
    17 July 2015 09: 03
    The question of who shot down can be divided into two parts, who had the opportunity to shoot down even by mistake and to whom it was beneficial.
    Definitely, the Ukrainian Armed Forces had the technical ability to bring down an airplane at such a height, but the militia ..., all at the level of fortune telling, there is no convincing evidence of this possibility.
    And in the question, to whom is it profitable much easier, is it profitable for Ukraine? - Of course not, so that they don’t talk about it. Is it profitable for the militias? - not even more. Is it profitable for Russia? - the biggest is not here. Europeans are also not particularly.
    And only Americans are profitable and they got everything they wanted from this disaster.
    And with whose hands it was done, based on the capabilities of the parties, more likely with the hands of the armed forces of Ukraine than with militias.
    1. +1
      17 July 2015 11: 20
      Is something wrong? Justify.
      1. +2
        17 July 2015 11: 27
        Quote: alexbg2
        Is something wrong? Justify.

        The one who smacked minus will never respond - this is a local sofa hamster. They just don’t understand the sentences, where
        a) more than five words
        b) you need to keep in touch with the previous sentence
        c) there is no idea of ​​"tearing everyone up" in one form or another (blunt rubbish, incl.)

        Hammer in.
        If you want to express a personal opinion - get ready for the minuses.
        If you want a rating, shout "hooray!" The loudest. laughing
        1. +2
          17 July 2015 12: 34
          Quote: iConst
          If you want a rating, shout "hooray!" The loudest.

          Yeah ... shout it all here lol
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      17 July 2015 11: 25
      Strange, no one as a party to the conflict mentions the private armies of the oligarchs, but they are much better prepared militarily, better armed and more mobile, and to buy a used beech, as I understand it, is not a problem
      1. 0
        17 July 2015 14: 18
        Such systems are only possible at "Chernoy Vody", and that is not a fact. "Buk" is not a pair of "Maxim" machine guns.
    3. -1
      17 July 2015 11: 39
      Yes, what are the "two parts".
      The Ukrainian government, knowing that large-scale hostilities are taking place on its territory, using all types of weapons and aircraft, did not close the airspace over these areas and allowed civilian aircraft to fly there. Thus, one of the planes fell into the trap due to negligence, or the malicious intent of those who did not close the airspace for flights. What else can you talk about? How should this be regarded? Who is to blame? These criminal acts or omissions should be the subject of a "tribunal".
      Of course, Obama and his fascist German will say that Russia is to blame, the rest will sing along in chorus, and the French may even dance.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. +2
    17 July 2015 09: 49

    Rate it.
    1. +1
      17 July 2015 11: 48
      Quote: JACTUS RECTUS
      Rate it.

      And what should we "evaluate"? This video has already been sorted out to the smallest detail in one of the articles. If you have a desire, find it. From comments and analysis, maybe you can learn something new for yourself ...
      1. +2
        17 July 2015 17: 25
        I have not seen such an article, but the comments, in fact, would not be superfluous.
        1. 0
          19 July 2015 16: 37
          The comment is short - there would have been regular units of the Russian Army there, the Military High Command has long been set off for caches in the Carpathians.
          And about Boeing, look here:
          [media = http: //www.rt.com/shows/documentary/197540-mh-17-crash-ukraine/]
          All "answers" were given long ago.
  21. -2
    17 July 2015 11: 04
    What to expect? .. Whistle arthropod from the mountain?


    Decisions who to blame first. Russia or China.
  22. 0
    17 July 2015 11: 30
    There is a historical precedent - the burning of the Reichstag and the trial of George Dimitrov, organized by German Nazis in 1933.
    Then at that trial (something like a "tribunal" being assembled today) G. Dimitrov, who defended himself, made a speech, the logical construction of which left the Nazis no chance to hide him behind bars or execute him. It was after this trial that the world community first learned about the beastly appearance of the German fascists, about the lies that Germany spread in Europe in those years, looked differently at A. Hitler and Germany itself, which a few months later turned into a fascist dictatorship. Dimitrov was then acquitted. He left for the USSR.
    Apparently, the "tribunal" cannot be avoided. Look, for example, at the photo of Mr. Abot or this Canadian (I forgot his last name), compare it with the photo of the Germans in 1933 from that very "trial", and a lot will become clear.
    Of course, you cannot find a man of Dimitrov's caliber now, but there are lawyers who will smash the "evidence" of "civilized" people to smithereens as soon as they present the calculations of our military and industrialists, as well as eyewitness accounts of the tragedy.
  23. -2
    17 July 2015 12: 22
    If, as eyewitnesses say, corpses from a morgue fell from the sky, then why should this subject be procrastinated further? Until the corpses were taken away, this was enough to put an end to what had happened, to declare all this a provocation and not to continue talking until the west explained this miracle. This is the main thing. And on this it was necessary to stand to the end. In the photo of the German correspondent, who was one of the first to write, (a huge number of photos were given a link here on this site) and which one cannot suspect of sympathy for the Russians, a piece of the nose trim of the cockpit with a fragment of the pilots' windows was filmed. It is clearly visible that the cabin was fired at point blank range from a machine gun.
    1. 0
      17 July 2015 12: 42
      Quote: Pencil
      If, as eyewitnesses say, corpses from a morgue fell from the sky, then why should this subject be procrastinated further? Until the corpses were taken away, this was enough to put an end to what had happened, to declare all this a provocation and not to continue talking until the west explained this miracle. This is the main thing. And on this it was necessary to stand to the end. In the photo of the German correspondent, who was one of the first to write, (a huge number of photos were given a link here on this site) and which one cannot suspect of sympathy for the Russians, a piece of the nose trim of the cockpit with a fragment of the pilots' windows was filmed. It is clearly visible that the cabin was fired at point blank range from a machine gun.


      A video that explains everything and puts it in its place. But the "machine gun", I want to note, on fighters and attack aircraft, is not found now ... This is a common misconception, I note, not only yours, but as can be seen from the video, many ...

    2. +2
      17 July 2015 13: 19
      ..... It is clearly visible that the cabin was fired at point blank range from a machine gun ....

      ..... On modern aircraft, due to the low efficiency, machine guns are not installed .... There are guns .... 23-30mm, basically .... High-explosive 23mm caliber makes a "hole" in the skin about 20-30cm .... And the fragments of the warhead of the air-to-air missile may well leave many small holes ... hi
      1. 0
        17 July 2015 14: 35
        I agree. I mean, the Boeing was most likely shot from a military plane.
  24. +2
    17 July 2015 14: 11
    SAM BUK rather cunning missile as it always comes to the target from the top.
    Accordingly, traces from hitting debris should be from the top.

    I'll tell you from myself.
    17.07.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX I was in the Voroshilovgrad region. Mr. Red Ray and personally saw the falling wreckage of the aircraft.
    At the same time, I heard the noise of the SU-25 engine, as it had previously flown in that area and dumped luminous crap.
    I didn’t see it because it was cloudy in places and by the sound it was not possible to determine the direction (a very noisy plane).
    1. 0
      17 July 2015 14: 17
      Quote: Stas 86
      SAM BUK pretty dodgy rocket as it always hits the target from the top.
      Accordingly, traces from hitting debris should be from the top.

      And at what distance does the fuse fire, and what should be the damage caused by such a large enough missile?
      1. 0
        17 July 2015 14: 21
        I don’t know the subtleties.
  25. -1
    17 July 2015 14: 37
    Quote: Stas 86
    SAM BUK rather cunning missile as it always comes to the target from the top.
    Accordingly, traces from hitting debris should be from the top.

    I'll tell you from myself.
    17.07.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX I was in the Voroshilovgrad region. Mr. Red Ray and personally saw the falling wreckage of the aircraft.
    At the same time, I heard the noise of the SU-25 engine, as it had previously flown in that area and dumped luminous crap.
    I didn’t see it because it was cloudy in places and by the sound it was not possible to determine the direction (a very noisy plane).

    And there shouldn't be any other noise. Boeing was already destroyed at that moment ...
    1. 0
      17 July 2015 14: 48
      Civilians have sound restrictions on engines, while military aircraft have no restrictions.
      Near in the air with a military aircraft, a civilian is simply inaudible.
  26. 0
    17 July 2015 16: 21
    Dear FORUM, I may be off topic, but where is the Malaysian board that disappeared before that. I don’t remember his number (roughly shot down MRD and that MRO). Why there are no investigation results. Or he was kidnapped ??????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are many versions, but knowing the vile complexity of the mattress, my version
    1. pilots were bribed or there were duplicate pilots on board
    2. make the plane invisible on radars just spit it, taking into account the technical development of pin ... dosii and put it on the Garcia base or somewhere else.
    3. load with corpses and send to the last flight. The bourgeoisie has nothing human.
    4. Using an autopilot sent under a rocket.
    Many versions, but still where is the first Malaysian plane ??????????????????????????????????????
  27. kig
    +1
    17 July 2015 16: 24
    Almost all commentators do not fully understand what exactly the Netherlands Security Council is doing, to which Ukraine has transferred the right to an investigation. It is investigating a plane crash, not looking for the perpetrators. It is not his task to search for the guilty, and that is why it is so cautious about why the plane crashed. And it is absolutely clear why Malaysia is asking to convene a tribunal. She just wants to find those who did this and punish them. And the international tribunal is convening because so much politics has wrapped up around this event. As we see in the comments, everything has already been decided.
  28. 0
    17 July 2015 17: 21
    Quote: kig
    Almost all commentators do not fully understand what exactly the Netherlands Security Council is doing, to which Ukraine has transferred the right to an investigation. It is investigating a plane crash, not looking for the perpetrators. It is not his task to search for the guilty, and that is why it is so cautious about why the plane crashed. And it is absolutely clear why Malaysia is asking to convene a tribunal. She just wants to find those who did this and punish them. And the international tribunal is convening because so much politics has wrapped up around this event. As we see in the comments, everything has already been decided.

    I do not quite agree with you. What do you mean by "Investigation of a plane crash" if last year experts said that the plane did not fall by itself? If no one knows what happened to Boeing, then why was Russia accused and sanctions imposed a year ago? Where is the confidence that this tribunal will not turn into an analogue of the "tribunal for Yugoslavia"? Moreover, the countries that have imposed sanctions against Russia are faced with the task of justifying their own sanctions. Can the tribunal be impartial in such a situation?
    1. kig
      0
      19 July 2015 02: 36
      In my understanding, "investigation" means ... in general, a long story, it is better to search the net for the results of the investigation of air crashes conducted under the auspices of ICAO. At least the case with the TU-204 in Vnukovo. It is precisely such a document that will appear as a result of the work of the Dutch commission. They have already named the reason for the plane crash - high-energy objects, but everyone knows this anyway.
  29. 0
    17 July 2015 17: 55
    So much so that a year after the tragedy with MH-17, the relatives of the 18 victims decided to sue Chicago ... a lawsuit against 900 million dollars against Igor Strelkov (Girkin),
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Dope, of course.
    If and sue, then on Nuland and her accomplices. It was they who, on behalf of their states, organized an illegal coup d'etat and then supported the bloody Kiev junta. Therefore, the responsibility for all the victims in Ukraine for this period lies precisely with them.
    It would be logical if all the relatives of those killed in Ukraine filed lawsuits against Nuland, Dalia Grybauskaite and other pribludny from different countries of Europe on the Maidan.
  30. +1
    17 July 2015 20: 04
    Here is perhaps the most real version of who shot down a Boeing 777:


    One not yet disputed fact is that in the busy area where the Boeing 777 was destroyed, no one saw the launch or flight of a Buk missile.
    For example, here is the launch of Buk missiles:
    1. wanderer_032
      0
      17 July 2015 20: 58
      The characteristic openings on the Boeing 777 MN-17 skin could leave the damaging elements of such shells with which the SU-25 attack aircraft are equipped:

      30 mm cartridge with ME projectile

      Designed to defeat undisguised manpower and easily vulnerable military equipment (such as a stationary aircraft, radar, vehicles, etc.). It is equipped with ready-made striking elements (GGE) and a weatherproof application device with several stages of protection and a fixed response time.





      Key Features:

      The mass of the cartridge (projectile; GGE), kg - 0,837 (0,395; 0,0035)

      Initial speed, m / s - 885

      Time from the moment of the shot
      before operation of the knockout device, s - 1,1 / 1,5

      The number of GGE - 28
      1. wanderer_032
        0
        17 July 2015 21: 26
        As for the R-60 missiles, here are:

        Rocket R-60 / R-60M:
        The design - aerodynamic design - "duck", the wing is equipped with rollers, the aerodynamic rudders together with the destabilizers are in the nose of the rocket. The rocket was created in the image and likeness of the 9M31 SAM 9K31 Strela-1 SAM, but inherited only the caliber (120 mm) and the dimensions of the warhead from the progenitor rocket.
        P-60 - rod warhead (mesh with striking elements) of relatively low power, most effective when penetrating into the structure of the target aircraft. The core material of the warhead is an alloy of zirconium and molybdenum / tungsten (according to other data)
        Fuse - non-contact radio fuse "Kolibri" (developed in 1971) and a contact backup.
        Radius fuse - 5 m
        Damage radius - 2.5 m

        R-60 - IC GOS OGS-60TI "Komar" developed by the software "Arsenal" (Kiev, chief designer - S.P. Alekseenko) with an uncooled photocell and a low-inertial gyro stabilizer, which ensured the development of target designation angles up to 12 degrees according to information received from the onboard sighting system of the aircraft. The development of the GOS was started by the software "Arsenal" in 1968. Serial production was carried out by the NPK "Progress" (Kiev, source).

        R-60M / R-60MK - upgraded rod - rods are made with depleted uranium core. The technical description of the missiles states: The warhead is a closed source of weak radiation, so there is a corresponding sign on compartment No. 2. The radiation power at a distance of 0,2 m is significantly lower than the dose admissible for a person (source).
        Fuse - contact, radar ("Kolibri-M") or optical ("Strizh") or combined remote.

        Range:
        R-60 - 250-2500 m (at low altitudes) - up to 7200 m (height 12000 m)

        R-60M / R-60MK - 200-1500 m (at low altitudes) - 500-10000 m (at high altitudes)


        http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-101.html
        1. wanderer_032
          0
          17 July 2015 21: 43
          The launch of a large rocket, such as the one used by the Buk-M1 air defense system, would undoubtedly be recorded by all the technical resources that Ukraine, NATO countries and the Russian Federation have at their disposal.

          Since the launch of such a missile has a clear and rather long inversion track. Sufficient to detect the time and place of launching such a missile system with modern technical systems for monitoring the air situation.

          But no such information has been received. More than one media outlet did not provide specific information from any sources for the year.
  31. +1
    18 July 2015 01: 22
    Quote: kig
    Almost all commentators do not fully understand what exactly the Netherlands Security Council is doing, to which Ukraine has transferred the right to an investigation. It is investigating a plane crash, not looking for the guilty. .........


    It just turns out like Mayakovsky’s - we say Lenin, we mean the party and vice versa. So here - we say we are investigating a plane crash, we mean we are looking for the guilty .....
  32. +1
    18 July 2015 08: 16
    I watched TV shows about the incident on July 17.07.14, XNUMX. There was indignation that our experts claim that the United States has satellite images of this territory at that time and they then know how the Boeing was shot down. I wanted to ask our specialists, but where is the all-seeing eye of our space satellite systems? Or just this all-seeing in the pages of the press. Once again, remember Joseph Vissarionovich.
    1. 0
      20 July 2015 05: 19
      Not Americans, not ours, will not show pictures, so as not to show the capabilities of the satellite. If only shitty quality, where not x .. is not visible.