Military Review

How correctly: “to progat” or “progge” the younger generation?

125
On the information spaces, there was an article that says that special classes were opened in Sunday schools at the churches of the Russian Orthodox Church, in which (attention!) Free preparation is given for the Unified State Examination (USE) and the State Final Attestation (GIA) for children from low-income families. In this case, the team of Sunday schools and those representatives of the Russian Orthodox Church who have embodied such an idea into reality need to express special gratitude if the training is conducted in a scientific way. At the same time, this article itself, but it was published in the newspaper. "News", talks about how the USE is bogged down in all sorts of corruption and quasi-corruption schemes. It turns out that, outside the Sunday schools of the Russian Orthodox Church, it is either extremely difficult or unreal to get free help to prepare for passing the final exams. And this, sadly, is true.


How correctly: “to progat” or “progge” the younger generation?


The main, let's say, tangible reason is that the senior classes (especially graduation) have long become a place in which academic disciplines are frankly divided into grades. And it would have been half the trouble if the time allotted in the program for the "highest grade" disciplines (chosen for the Unified State Examination) did not turn into a blind watch for HERE material. Tests, tests, tests ... And if not tests, then in this case, something mechanical that turns a student into a sort of biorobot, which does not need to be creative or even explain the essence of what is written. There is no need to speak at all, because the paper can endure everything, and no one will listen to the student anyway - sit, draw check marks, crosses, maybe you'll get it - don't miss, and the computer, you know, does not identify your creation properly. ..

As a result, thousands of articles in various publications have already been etched from children, the very understanding that knowledge and skills (and, by the way, now these concepts have been eliminated in didactics, being replaced by abstract competences and competences), is etched out not only a set of facts and rules imprinted by the brain, but also the ability to apply these facts and rules in non-standard situations too. If a student is going to take the EGE a little better than it can be done by attending standard modern lessons at school, then, do you want to — do not want to, “take out and put” a few bills for “additional coursework” or pick up a group of tutors cities are estimated at thousands of rubles per hour.

In this regard, a situation arises that differentiates students not so much in terms of mastering the program, as in terms of their possibilities, master the material better. If in a simplified way, then a child from a family with greater affluence if there is a desire (well, at least the wishes of his parents) today is much more likely to be more successful in preparing for and passing the Unified State Examination than a child from a family that is used in many ways to deny itself because limited budget. This already leads to tangible social stratification, when money becomes almost the main factor in quality education. And what, in turn, can such a stratification lead to? - a separate issue, the severity of which is no less than the severity of the question of the modern educational system.

It is hard not to notice that the exploited model of education becomes the first step towards segregation. “Outcasts” appear, which are defined as such only because parents (if they have any at all) do not have funds for “extra” classes, expensive textbooks and teaching aids, to subscribe to electronic libraries, and various “trainings” on the exam or GIA.

Georgy Shalaev (father of schoolgirl, Voronezh region):
My daughter is finishing school this year. I will not say that she walks in a pupil, but she takes her studies very seriously. To pass the exam, from the middle of the 9-th class goes to the tutors. I know that many people start at all from elementary school. This is some kind of foolishness at first ... At first I went on two subjects, and this year I already went on four. I have a feeling that if I had the same way in my time - we studied not only at school, prepared homework, but also ran extra lessons in the evenings, then a generation of continuous Tsiolkovsky and Lobachevsky would grow. Immediately - solid oddities. You ask one thing - he says: they didn’t pass, the other too, the third - “it’s not at all useful to us on the USE”. I ask: what, you are taught only to be useful at the Unified State Exam? .. This is not a school anymore, but some kind of pyramid or, you forgive me, the Unified State Exam sect ... Zadornov seems to have said: "Unified State Examination EWS" .


Valentina Dokuchaeva (teacher, Kursk Region):
Do you think that teachers are delighted with the exam? I would like to look into the eyes of a colleague who would say that the USE is the best form of knowledge assessment. And let it be only an estimate, and then in fact also preparation, which eats up a considerable share of the family budget. Among my colleagues, fans of the exam are definitely not. The state says that corruption is won in this way. Who are we kidding? .. Corruption has now come to other levels, and, unfortunately, has not evaporated from universities either. Stories with thousands of beneficiaries, I think you know. Yes, before the grass was greener, the trees are higher, soda is tastier ... But earlier there was no such problem as preparation for the exam somewhere on the side. Someone, of course, prepared so. But more often - himself, behind the books. Now the whole industry is preparing for the delivery of final certification. One must be a cog of this system. Otherwise ... you understand.


Sergey O. (graduate of a regular secondary school, Moscow region):
When the teachers told me (I understand them, on the one hand, they also needed indicators): if you don’t pass the exam, you will work as a loader or “some” (smiling - author’s note) as a turner at the plant. I usually answered: what, the turner is no longer a profession? Or do we have a program in which everyone should have a higher education? Then I decided - I’ll take it and take it out specifically for turner at the school. Unlearning. And I definitely do not feel like an outcast. There is always work. Do managers with two higher educations have one? In the store, it was necessary to shift the boxes from the shelf to the shelf - why did you need to occupy a place in the university ...


There are those people who believe that it is the students themselves and their parents who sow panic in their own ranks. Like, to pass the exam no lessons "on the side" and the costs are not needed; they say, the program allows even without tutors to achieve tangible results. Perhaps this is true, but the question is different: the essence of modern secondary education is the education, upbringing and development of a young man (girl), or is it the main thing that the school will have when it comes to graduates of the Unified State Exam? Considering that the paper bureaucracy today has reached incredible proportions, for some reason it is hard to believe in the first ...
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  1. Denis
    Denis April 23 2015 05: 32 New
    +18
    to pass the exam no classes "on the side" and costs are not needed; they say that the program allows tangible results to be achieved without tutors
    Still, in 60 the test system was adopted to assess the abilities of the mentally retarded
    Or just a provocation, history select ONE correct answer
    KURSK BATTLE occurred during
    -Great Patriotic War
    Second World
    -in 1943 year
    And what answer?
    1. Editor
      Editor April 23 2015 08: 03 New
      +7
      The wording of the question (during + what?) Cuts off the third option, the absence of the word “war” is the second, but for some reason there is no certainty that the authors of the test thought so. What only "pearls" now you will not hear and do not read ...
      1. ZVEROBOY
        ZVEROBOY April 23 2015 09: 43 New
        +18
        The "reform" of school education, like, by the way, all other modern "reforms" is destructive, in fact.
        Generations of limited knowledge are deliberately cultivated
        employees, i.e. attendants for the "gentlemen".
        The exam is not even an exam, it is a test, and it is completely unsystematic and frankly stupid.
        After graduating from a Soviet school 30 years ago, I, without any difficulty, “tested” on last year’s exam questions for positive assessments. Although there was more than enough idiocy in matters, especially in terms of gum. subjects.
        It must be clearly understood that the Soviet school provided a solid knowledge base for the development of personality in any of the areas of creativity and creation.
        Now the bourgeoisie does not need well-educated people, they need slaves and consumers, whom it is very easy to fool with their ideology.
        PS. Practically all Russian officials and new-comers teach their children abroad, without subjecting them to the harmful influence of the education system, which was “reformed” by Fursenko and Lebanon.
        So-called “receivers” are being raised.
        1. matross
          matross April 23 2015 11: 32 New
          +6
          Non-state universities should be banned altogether. Among them are not useful. And the state should cut at least a quarter, except for the military. And only budget places. And the Unified State Examination, as a form can be left, only to pass to all not mandatory, but as additional tests for applicants to universities, except the military. Certificate of secondary education should be issued based on the results of exams-tests in all subjects of the school course (take as you study). At the Higher School of Economics, return to the Soviet system of entrance tests in the camps.
        2. matross
          matross April 23 2015 11: 32 New
          0
          Non-state universities should be banned altogether. Among them are not useful. And the state should cut at least a quarter, except for the military. And only budget places. And the Unified State Examination, as a form can be left, only to pass to all not mandatory, but as additional tests for applicants to universities, except the military. Certificate of secondary education should be issued based on the results of exams-tests in all subjects of the school course (take as you study). At the Higher School of Economics, return to the Soviet system of entrance tests in the camps.
        3. kalibr
          kalibr April 23 2015 13: 51 New
          +2
          But after all, just abroad and teach on this system! For your information! So it turns out that the officials are doing worse than themselves! I have a lot of my students and studied abroad on grants and independent formed and ... do not find much of a difference between our higher education and their education. Much is even better. So the study of children “their” there is not an indicator of the quality of education there, quite the opposite!
          1. Alex
            Alex April 23 2015 21: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            I have a lot of my students and studied abroad under grants and independently formed and ... do not find much difference between our higher education and their education.

            That's just awful. When I was in the States 15 years ago, this difference was felt quite clearly. In our favor.
        4. Alex
          Alex April 23 2015 21: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: ZVEROBOY
          After graduating from a Soviet school 30 years ago, I, without any difficulty, “tested” on last year’s exam questions for positive assessments. Although there was more than enough idiocy in matters, especially in terms of gum. subjects.

          Fifteen years ago he passed another certification (that’s still idiocy), at the end of our group of chemists they gave a test sample (a trial version for drawing up the final state test), you won’t believe that there were errors in EVERY question. We marked them, but, it seems to me, no one did anything. I will never believe that it was a mistake or inattention. Rather, it is a mechanism of post-test influence on the test results (I’ll immediately make a reservation - this is IMHO and I'm not a supporter of conspiracy theories). Otherwise, it is very difficult to explain the strange fact that children of the “right” parents pass tests for incredibly high scores, even without basic basic knowledge.
      2. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 21: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: Editor
        The wording of the question (during + what?) Cuts off the third option, the absence of the word "war" - the second,

        An excellent argument for filing an appeal, but here's the catch: to challenge the exam results, unlike old-fashioned exams, is impossible (I, by Belarusian standards, but in Russia, IMHO, is the system the same?).
    2. ava09
      ava09 April 23 2015 08: 25 New
      +6
      There are three options for the correct answer, just a sect ... of the "Educators" in the furnace, and given the damage caused by the Bologna system not to the first generation, to prison. Together with their dad Soros. Theft permeated all spheres of life, both material and intellectual.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ZVEROBOY
        ZVEROBOY April 23 2015 10: 01 New
        +9
        Smart ones are no longer needed. What does school education reform lead to? L.A. Yasyukova -
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. siberalt
          siberalt April 23 2015 14: 15 New
          +8
          Liberal society does not need a competent population. Managers are needed. Our deputies did not have to read the agreement on accession to the WTO, they did not read it. What the chief Manager said, they voted for that. And so the laws are adopted in the Russian Federation. They are written by managers from the State Department, passed to managers at the embassy, ​​and those to managers at the government. Already here the connection is unbreakable because of the ban on having its own state ideology. And if we don’t have ours, we will carry out someone else’s expense for us. The system needs to be changed.
    3. good fair
      good fair April 23 2015 13: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Denis
      KURSK BATTLE occurred during
      -Great Patriotic War
      Second World
      -in 1943 year
      And what answer?

      I remembered an archaic joke:
      Three come to the history faculty (to read in Russian, not in English): by big pull, just by pull and absolutely without pull. The first one enters the audience, the question is:
      - You want to say that the Second World War lasted from 1941 to 1945?
      - Yes.
      - Well done, great!
      The second comes in:
      - In what year did the war begin?
      - In 1941.
      - And when did it end?
      - In 1945.
      - Well done, I passed it.
      The third came in:
      - In what year did the war begin?
      - In 1941.
      - Is it over?
      - In 1945.
      - How many of ours died?
      - 25 million.
      - Name them!
    4. self-propelled
      self-propelled April 23 2015 22: 58 New
      +1
      [quote = Denis] [quote] to pass the exam, no classes "on the side" and costs are not needed; they say, the program allows you to achieve tangible results without tutors [/ quote]
      I would like to find out from the curators of the "education project" - but what does the "Sovdepovskaya" education system do not suit you? at the time of the “damned scoop”, education was at the highest level (we skip party policy, take exact sciences). Soviet graduates of institutes were in great demand all over the world.
      I propose my (purely crazy) idea - to return to the "soviet education system." I am sure the state will not lose. and if there will still be funding for the likeness of DOSAAF, I myself will help as I can. I’m sure you shouldn’t look up to the Europoids! let them equal us!
  2. elenagromova
    elenagromova April 23 2015 05: 37 New
    +5
    Well, of course, there would be a desire, it is possible to prepare via the Internet, but in fact in many localities there is not even the Internet ...
    1. Denis
      Denis April 23 2015 06: 00 New
      +5
      Quote: elenagromova
      but in many places there’s even no Internet ...

      Even where not many parents can afford computers, alas ...
      It's a pity
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 April 23 2015 07: 28 New
        +14
        Quote: Denis
        You can also prepare via the Internet

        I wonder what Fursenko (or FursEnko?) Colleagues zamenovusya above? My wife has a head teacher at school, I already checked one son at the USE, I prepare the second for the State Intelligence Agency, so I completely agree with the negative assessment of these activities for testing “knowledge”. The Soviet education system was much closer to the people, taught to think and draw conclusions, as well as clearly present these conclusions. The current system does not. On the one hand, they shout about the workload of students, in connection with which they increased the duration of school, on the other, the number of daily lessons only increases every year. Where is the logic?
        1. Denis
          Denis April 23 2015 08: 21 New
          +16
          Quote: inkass_98
          The Soviet education system was much closer to the people, taught to think and draw conclusions, as well as clearly present these conclusions. The current system does not.

          So it used to be taught, now educational services are having
          Here is such a perversion
        2. Alex
          Alex April 23 2015 21: 26 New
          +3
          Quote: inkass_98
          shouting about the workload of students, in connection with which they increased the duration of schooling,

          An additional year of study was introduced for a completely different reason. In reality, the number of hours for the entire academic life has remained virtually unchanged: the addition of the extra year was offset by the introduction of a five-day period with a partial increase in the weekly hourly load. Here the focus was different and very subtle.

          It was planned (even under Gorbat) to transfer to 12-year education (fortunately, it did not work out) with the threshold of admission to school in 6 years (this remains). Thus, the average age of graduates became equal to 18 years: just boys in the army, and girls - married or for work. With such an elegant volt, all problems with youth were transferred from the shoulders of the state to the neck of parents.

          When we saw a clear prospect of “learning” sexually mature undergrowths in high school, many teachers of retirement and pre-retirement age began to “make legs”. The result is an almost complete exposure of Ukrainian schools, even in relatively prosperous Kiev. The idea didn’t go away with the 12 years, it was replaced by 11, but the programs didn’t get any better. And the Unified State Examination (ZNO, CT, etc.) only finished off the situation.
        3. byego
          byego April 24 2015 18: 43 New
          0
          I have a mother teacher with 20 years of experience. Where is the logic when teachers are bombarded with a bunch of paper and unnecessary work? Maybe this is another way to pacify the most rebellious, trying to at least somehow teach?

          I think here you need to ask another question, what to do?
      2. nadezhiva
        nadezhiva April 23 2015 07: 28 New
        +2
        A regular computer / laptop NOT FOR GAME VIDEO costs a lot of ridiculous money. There is no way to connect to the Internet - there are disks and GIA, and the exam. It would be a desire (to help your child).
        People, there are free libraries. Who said that the “expensive, new” textbooks are much better than the ones that 20 released years ago? I'm talking about basic mathematics-Russian-physics-chemistry-biology.
        1. Denis
          Denis April 23 2015 08: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: nadezhiva
          very funny money

          Though and as noted
          Quote: nadezhiva
          3axap

          not talk about wages, but do you know the situation in your area? Many would have cried for ridiculous money, and such work is not always available
          I'm talking about basic mathematics-Russian-physics-chemistry-biology
          And they already often have no one to teach them ONLY, and checkboxes in tests are easier to check, less lazy and you don’t need to know anything
        2. Vladimir73
          Vladimir73 April 23 2015 14: 05 New
          +5
          Quote: nadezhiva
          A regular computer / laptop NOT FOR GAME VIDEO costs a lot of ridiculous money. There is no way to connect to the Internet - there are disks and GIA, and the exam. It would be a desire (to help your child).


          New laptop from 9 thousand rubles. (This is the cheapest I have seen in Saratov). I don’t know how YOU but for me it’s not ridiculous money. request
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. matross
            matross April 23 2015 15: 02 New
            -3
            9 thousand rubles? Yes, this is not funny. It is a shame to write to a peasant, if he is not disabled, that it is expensive. Especially buy your own child to study.
          3. nadezhiva
            nadezhiva April 23 2015 19: 10 New
            -1
            Quote: Vladimir73
            Quote: nadezhiva
            A regular computer / laptop NOT FOR GAME VIDEO costs a lot of ridiculous money. There is no way to connect to the Internet - there are disks and GIA, and the exam. It would be a desire (to help your child).


            New laptop from 9 thousand rubles. (This is the cheapest I have seen in Saratov). I don’t know how YOU but for me it’s not ridiculous money. request


            Vladimir, but you can buy by installments? In any store, they will always meet you. Up to 36 months. If you deposit carefully, there will be no problems.
            1. Vladimir73
              Vladimir73 April 24 2015 12: 36 New
              0
              It is possible in installments, but I wrote that 9 thousand for me is NOT FUNNY money, but VERY EVEN SERIOUS. In our "fun" time, spending is already out of nowhere.
        3. Alex
          Alex April 23 2015 21: 32 New
          +7
          Quote: nadezhiva
          People, there are free libraries. Who said that the “expensive, new” textbooks are much better than the ones that 20 released years ago? I'm talking about basic mathematics-Russian-physics-chemistry-biology.

          Absolutely agree! Moreover, I lay my head on Claudia that old chemistry textbooks are many times better than current ones. For 25 years of work at school, the process of castration of chemistry as a science was watched with sadness. It's a shame ...
      3. 3axap
        3axap April 23 2015 07: 50 New
        +5
        Quote: Denis
        Quote: elenagromova
        but in many places there’s even no Internet ...

        Even where not many parents can afford computers, alas ...
        It's a pity

        Denis, did your parents have a feed? The article is not about the wages of parents, but about the fact that the Unified State Examination kills the country's knowledge and future. My children didn’t fall under this experiment, so I judge its consequences for those guys and boys, who come to earn money in the summer. Knowledge is deplorable, all calculations are square or cubic meters, only through mobile means of communication. And then if you tell me the formula. lol Sometimes, instead of working, you take on the functions of the school and begin to teach nonsense. hi Better, the Soviet system of education, they haven’t come up with anything yet.
        1. nadezhiva
          nadezhiva April 23 2015 08: 03 New
          +12
          Zahar, no offense. But the exam in Russian laughing You do not pass wink
          1. 3axap
            3axap April 23 2015 11: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: nadezhiva
            Zahar, no offense. But the exam in Russian laughing You do not pass wink

            And I'm not going to, in 53goda it’s already hard to remake myself. hi
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Denis
          Denis April 23 2015 08: 25 New
          +3
          Quote: 3axap
          Denis, but was your corman your parents?

          Computer? Yes, then he could not afford every enterprise
          then was my calculator not micro and not pocket
          and more often in a column on a leaf
          1. saag
            saag April 23 2015 08: 45 New
            +6
            Quote: Denis
            then there was my calculator not micro and not pocket

            Paper :-) The input device is more often a pen. output device any surface, arithmetic-logical device that is given by nature - the brain :-)
            1. Denis
              Denis April 23 2015 08: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: saag

              Paper

              He himself, this one is figuratively cited. There you can send a pen, die happier, and even if you fall on your foot ...
            2. Alex
              Alex April 23 2015 21: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: saag
              Paper :-) The input device is more often a pen. output device any surface, arithmetic-logical device that is given by nature - the brain :-)

              good hi (without words!!!)
          2. 3axap
            3axap April 23 2015 11: 28 New
            0
            Quote: Denis
            Quote: 3axap
            Denis, but was your corman your parents?

            Computer? Yes, then he could not afford every enterprise
            then was my calculator not micro and not pocket
            and more often in a column on a leaf

            But you write about the times of the Unified State Examination, and not about the beginning of 60-70 reptiles. I also started with columns on a sheet. hi
            1. Denis
              Denis April 23 2015 13: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: 3axap
              But you write about the times of the exam, and not about the beginning of 60-70 reptiles.

              It is clear only then:
              Quote: 3axap
              Denis, but was your corman your parents?

              It's about those years.
        4. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu April 23 2015 09: 28 New
          +7
          Quote: 3axap
          коrmanu .., expertеment .., subtractеmerging .., tell meишь .., berешь.., begеnaeshь.., there is nothing repeat
          Did it prevent you from writing your own right exam? request
          In our rural school in Kazakhstan before the Unified State Exam (we have UNT), all 3 daughters of the director of a state farm, as ordered, finished school with a "red" certificate. And so it was everywhere throughout the country. With the introduction of the exam (UNT), this practice rested in the Bose.
          Yes, the oral and written exam of the Soviet era is probably better, but I'm sorry, "no one has canceled corruption" ..
          1. Denis
            Denis April 23 2015 09: 57 New
            +3
            Quote: Alibekulu
            Yes, the oral and written exam of the Soviet era is probably better, but I'm sorry, "no one has canceled corruption" ..

            And USE will save from it?
            In full force, the Unified State Examination in Russia began to be taken from 2008 of the year. Already in the 2009 year, the exam in Dagestan passed with great scandals. However, 79,6% of students passed the Russian language (in Russia as a whole - about 94%). About the same number of students overcame the minimum math threshold in Dagestan as in Russia as a whole http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2009/06/29/3216769.shtml. In total, 19 exam participants scored 100 points. And this despite the fact that 60% of students are “gold” and “silver” medalists http://www.ctege.info/respublika-dagestan-ege/antikorruptsionnyiy-ege-v-dagestan

            e-provalilsya.html.

            Due to the fact that in Dagestan it was much easier to agree and pass the exam on the Unified State Examination, a real “hegemonic” migration was noted: more than a thousand graduates changed their place of residence to take the Unified State Examination in the villages of Dagestan (in villages it was possible to give a grade higher than in Makhachkala). Moreover, migration trends continued to persist in subsequent years.

            As a result, in the 2011 year, Dagestan became the leader in Russia in terms of the 100-point exam results, then the 104 graduates received the highest mark - higher than in other subjects of the Russian Federation.
            Then the situation began to break radically. And in the 2012 year, the 100-point results in Dagestan became “all” 5 (2 - in Russian, 2 - in biology, 1 - in chemistry). After checking the work of the exam in 2013, over a thousand works of students were rejected. Thus, the results of passing the exam have gradually become more adequate, but bribes soared from 50-100 thousand rubles for passing all exams in 2009, to 1 million in 2014!
          2. 3axap
            3axap April 23 2015 11: 36 New
            0
            Alibekulu (3) KZ .... Did it hinder you to write your own USE exam correctly ?! ..... You’re a binary, excuse me. I didn’t. It so happened that I went to your site illiterate. I’m more to heaven. Honestly. repeat laughing
          3. Alex
            Alex April 23 2015 21: 38 New
            +3
            Quote: Alibekulu
            With the introduction of the Unified State Exam (UNT), this practice rested in the Bose. Yes, the oral and written exam of the Soviet era is probably better, but excuse me, "no one has canceled corruption" ..

            I do not want to make global assessments, but tell me, how did graduates of Caucasian schools have the highest marks in the USE in the Russian language, while they could not write an application for admission to the university without three or four mistakes? So you are absolutely right about corruption.
  3. shef598
    shef598 April 23 2015 05: 45 New
    +6
    They didn’t come up with anything better than in a personal conversation to determine the degree of stupidity of the respondent, I tell you like a real steelworker))))
    1. sergey32
      sergey32 April 23 2015 06: 43 New
      +3
      Unfortunately, the reality is that if we return to the former Soviet system for passing exams, you will have to pay so much at school for good exam results that there will be little light for children from poor families. Now in schools, the relations that were under the USSR are completely different. Come to any parent meeting, the main topic is money. It is rare that one of the teachers will additionally work out with the child for free, and on exams, believe me, they will not miss their chance to earn.
      This year my second daughter is finishing my lyceum. Participated in six olympiads. In two, she became a winner and, based on their results, received a hundred points in their core biology and chemistry. True, she had a very hard time practicing and to Moscow for face-to-face tours on the play to shake. This year, I have not seen the light of white. Well, of course, good tutors naturally had to fork out not sickly.
      1. perm23
        perm23 April 23 2015 07: 24 New
        +7
        The namesake is all about the fact that since the days of the USSR we ourselves have absorbed what our parents told us and now we are repeating it. We then all sought to get higher education. A diploma was needed no matter what it was, so that it was possible to settle in a good place. That's all. And we are also behaving now. And as for the USSR, I lived and passed exams more than once, no one demanded money, no one. If you don’t prepare properly, then you will surrender. And none of the teachers overwhelmed you, unless of course you behaved with him during your bestial studies. And I think that there is nothing better than an exam, you are with the teacher and he perfectly understands whether you know something or not. Even if he didn’t write everything, he finds out your knowledge with questions, and now it’s some kind of special operation, and not the passing of the exam. It's already ridiculous and jammers and teachers from other schools and a ban on everything. Just idiocy.
        1. Stanislas
          Stanislas April 23 2015 08: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: perm23
          from the time of the USSR we ourselves have absorbed what our parents told us and now we are repeating it. We then all sought to get higher education. A diploma was needed no matter what it was, so that it was possible to settle in a good place. That's all. And we are also behaving now.
          In the words “settle down on a good place” all lies, corruption, economic inefficiency and social injustice of the late USSR are focused. If grandmother had the asceticism of the Secretary-General and the responsibility of the highest echelons of power of the time of Stalin became the norm, there would have been more people who love their work, and the words “good place” and “to settle down” would rarely be used in one sentence. Something important was missing in the USSR in order to instill in the citizens a communist attitude to work.
          1. perm23
            perm23 April 23 2015 12: 13 New
            +1
            Not in the USSR but us. No one is to blame except ourselves. Each of us wanted to live better than the other. But economic efficiency was normal, the country lived and worked, and about social injustice, what we were such a country was. Since we behaved this way and lived like that, then we were talking about someone. We were like that.
  4. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 April 23 2015 05: 46 New
    +8
    My opinion is to evaluate the assessment of knowledge according to the standards in force in the USSR, that is, essays, problem solving, an oral answer, not any crosswords or guesses.
    1. nadezhiva
      nadezhiva April 23 2015 07: 38 New
      -4
      No no and one more time no. Schools will again pull out "their" excellent students and "their" lads.
      The exam is just a social elevator for smart children. I passed the required number of points - I entered the chosen specialty, at the chosen institute.
      The fact that it is necessary to deal with corruption is not denied by anyone. Only with the system of exams its (corruption) order is much higher.

      There have already been offers: Make 100-200 exam options. Post them in the public domain. Let them get ready!
      An hour before the exam in the region, the computer selects the exam option for the region.
      1. Trogvar
        Trogvar April 23 2015 10: 32 New
        +3
        unfortunately, later, in the first year of the SELECTED university, in the first session you need to SPEAK at the exam and prove that you are right in term papers, etc. And How? He was taught only crosses and checkmarks to draw for the result. ps worked as a teacher in a college. these were the first generations of the exam - horror.
        1. nadezhiva
          nadezhiva April 23 2015 10: 46 New
          +1
          Do not even compare the first years of the exam with the current. There, in principle, there is nothing to compare.
        2. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg April 23 2015 11: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Trogwar
          unfortunately, later, in the first year of the SELECTED university, in the first session you need to SPEAK at the exam and prove that you are right in term papers, etc. And How? He was taught only crosses and checkmarks to draw for the result. ps worked as a teacher in a college. these were the first generations of the exam - horror.

          Unfortunately, the Soviet school also had a lot of formalism, and nothing about humanitarian subjects. Remember how the writings were written - I read criticism and set out in my own words. And if you give out your thoughts that do not coincide with the guidelines, you will be punished 2 or 3. You yourself watched - they wrote an essay on Nekrasov "To whom in Russia ..." So, the only one who wrote a non-standard composition put 3
      2. kalibr
        kalibr April 23 2015 14: 26 New
        +3
        I work in high school since 1982 of the year. Children have become less aware, but ... from the village to the university has increased by an order of magnitude. In groups up to 50%. Earlier in Soviet times, this was not or was, but in humanitarian universities where the collective farm sent money to “learn from the teacher.” Today, many are on the exam, and this is really for many social elevator. And what should be taught - we will teach if a person wants!
        1. MrK
          MrK April 23 2015 20: 59 New
          -1
          And what after university, what social elevator?
        2. Alex
          Alex April 23 2015 22: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          coming from the village to the university has become more than an order of magnitude. In groups up to 50% Previously in Soviet times, this was not

          What are you saying ?! In my time at KSU, the ratio was village: the city was about 1: 1 (in my course about 60: 40, the course above is about the same). Another thing is that after graduating from high school, they did not at all try to return home, here are some collective farms and sent their fellows purposefully to force them to return home at least for working off.
      3. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 21: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: nadezhiva
        The exam is just a social elevator for smart children.

        I'm afraid to make a mistake, but I have the impression that you are infinitely far from school and from the educational system. I myself am a teacher, I can say that the testing system is an elevator to the edge of the roof. And your suggestions are also empty fantasies. Testing options are now higher than the roof, if you want - take it and get ready, but here you can hardly see the results. And the option of choosing a computer is generally ridiculous. I will never believe in the objectivity of a computer choice of several options (whoever worked in programming knows how easy it is to program the desired result).

        I want to say a few words in defense of fellow teachers (although maybe they don’t need this). Not a single normal teacher will extort anything - even take the offered bribe. In this profession you are either a TEACHER or a craftsman from education. The former are interested in children and their knowledge, the latter are only their own person. Most of the teachers of Soviet sourdough who remained at school do not dream of the old system for some bribes - many of them have long gone over the line of longing for material wealth - they just want to see the burning eyes of their students (and not the dull eyes of toys swollen from toys) before they die head count).
        1. nadezhiva
          nadezhiva April 23 2015 23: 28 New
          -3
          Yes, I am not a teacher. It's getting worse. I am the mother. Both my friends and I have children. And these children, having passed the exam, go where their parents would never have gathered to NEVER. And they would never have thought of sending their children to take exams at the university, where there is a competition of 200 people for 10-15 places. 50% of applicants are medalists or olympiads.
          Just now, when in the public domain there are all passing scores on the exam, a large number of friends are slightly "shocked" by the choices of their children.
    2. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg April 23 2015 10: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander 3
      My opinion is to evaluate the assessment of knowledge according to the standards in force in the USSR, that is, essays, problem solving, an oral answer, not any crosswords or guesses.

      Yes, of course, this option is better than the current one. Perfectly. Communism is also better. But not achievable, at least in the foreseeable future. He graduated from school in 1985, took exams in honey. Institute, if not for tutors, then the exam would have failed. And the tutors were from this university. Of course, there are always people who can independently study the subject, learn the language, but such a minority. As an option, it was possible to enter non-Moscow honey. Institute, it was easier there. But this is true now - you can enter a prestigious university with a mediocre exam. But he himself saw a girl from the Kaluga region (not even from the regional center) with maximum scores for the Unified State Exam + Olympics - she could choose any honey. Institute and do not bother, fill it up or not. By the way, the site has repeatedly seen the words "no one", "no", etc. etc. with separate spelling neither. But this is not a typo? Is it a Soviet school or an exam?
  5. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat April 23 2015 05: 59 New
    +17
    The exam is a system for creating stupid consumers, which was even mentioned at the time of its introduction by our Minister of Education. As a result, we have crowds of young people who have in their heads a set of mixed facts and an absolute inability to interpret and apply them. That is, they are simply not taught to think. It is vitally important to return the education system that was in the USSR, otherwise we will degenerate to the level of mattress covers.
    1. nadezhiva
      nadezhiva April 23 2015 07: 42 New
      +5
      A generation of intellectuals has already grown up, vilifying their country and worshiping the West. The collapse of the Union was already.
      Or not?

      "Dumb Exam" - this is the basic exam (3 points). The further ..... Try to pass it yourself - you will understand.
      In the end, no one says that there is no need to improve.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr April 23 2015 14: 29 New
        +2
        Before the West, even the dudes bowed down!
    2. Oberon812
      Oberon812 April 23 2015 12: 14 New
      +2
      I do not belittle the merits of the USE in the processes you have designated, but to blame everything only on the USE is silly. Do not remind me how many points for this exam were those who drove the crowd to the White House in the early 90s? And those who messed around in the mid-90s? Yes, those same yard gopniks in the late 90s, how many points were there? ZERO, USE was introduced in 2001. But the "system" in which children under 16 imitate the behavior of parents and other adults around them is "introduced" by nature a few million years ago. The education system without social principles, alas, is useless, as a last resort we will receive hooligans who are wonderfully counting and gracefully expressing their thoughts, and who offer Latin aphorisms, offer to share money on a voluntary basis.

      As for the testing system itself, then again, at least the test, at least the essay, until the presentation of the subjects in relation is introduced, the cart will not go far. Literature must keep up with the study of history, giving additional descriptions of dry historical facts. Similarly with the MHC and local history. Physics should not overtake (lag behind) the mathematics necessary to solve formulas. Computer science should provide the basis for the ability to algorithmize the solution of problems of the same mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. Until this happens, training at any age stage will be a memorization of various subjects that are not interconnected. And, to be honest, to wait in such circumstances for children to be able to combine and apply their knowledge is rather naive.
    3. CONTROL
      CONTROL April 23 2015 14: 13 New
      +2
      The Soviet education system, inherited from the Russian Empire, was precisely the SYSTEM! It gave the student not the sum of facts, figures and knowledge, and not the totality of their skills to apply to the current situation - but their ability interpret, continue to know the world around us on the basis of previously acquired knowledge! She gave a WORLDWIDE!
      And now - after school or university in the head of a young man: a set of photos (in the best case - video) files ... slide show!
    4. kalibr
      kalibr April 23 2015 14: 28 New
      -3
      The USSR collapsed with its system. So something was wrong, huh?
      1. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 22: 22 New
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        The USSR with its system fell apart.

        It took almost 70 years and the self-destructive efforts of the whole world, led by the richest country in this world. How many fragments will stand against much less effort? In the meantime, the outflow of brains has stopped: due to the complete absence of such (gross hyperbole, but this is from longing).
  6. Twilight
    Twilight April 23 2015 05: 59 New
    +6
    Why don’t you understand the principle * ehe * is inherently defective ... At one time, at the exam, we thought how to formulate the answer and convey our thoughts to the TEACHER. And now they are stupidly cramming ... My daughter takes two days a week to train these tests. They don’t think there, they stupidly solve the same type of tests ... In short, it seems that Moscow supposedly scientists from education conduct experiments on our children ...
    1. Hleb
      Hleb April 23 2015 06: 17 New
      +1
      can you say that as a result your daughter, as you wrote above, is a “stupid consumer,” a flawed girl, not thinking, stupidly cramming? and what future awaits her after that?
      1. Twilight
        Twilight April 23 2015 06: 32 New
        +1
        This is not the only daughter - this is a generation, which is regrettable.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb April 23 2015 06: 39 New
          +3
          no) you can call soy a consumer, flawed ... you can let her read her comments about her, and mine are adequate and they are also this generation.
          first of all, because my children had someone to study and educate, rather than rely on someone
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. perm23
      perm23 April 23 2015 07: 29 New
      0
      Totally right. Previously, we could think and think, but now we can only cram and hope for luck. No need to think, no need to twist and communicate. Before, a teacher could find out the level of your knowledge in communication with you. But everyone wanted to get a higher education, although there were brains, at least there was all the corruption. Parents ran away and paid for their child to attach him to a good place.
      1. nadezhiva
        nadezhiva April 23 2015 07: 58 New
        0
        Previously, if the teacher had a list of children on the table who should be “adopted” .... even the average peasants had a very average chance. Now it is higher (I do not take into account the Moscow State University, MGIMO and the like).
        Although, my girlfriend almost 2 years ago, my daughter entered the Moscow State University on a budget (State Audit). Not an olympiad. There were very few places in the group. Nevertheless, after an additional exam (mathematics) from Moscow, they called the mother and campaigned to give the child to this group. The exam was taken into account + the result of work in mathematics, already written at Moscow State University.
      2. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 22: 25 New
        +3
        Quote: perm23
        Previously, we could think and think, but now we can only cram and hope for luck.

        I can’t forget how one of my barely treeshniks reacted to the next test monitoring: "Again to play sea battle!" By the way, I wrote on 8 points (from 12-ty, which corresponds to the Soviet solid four).
  7. Moore
    Moore April 23 2015 06: 00 New
    +3
    The Ministry of Education will never go to the abolition of his beloved brainchild - the exam. To cancel this crap for bureaucrats will mean complete unsuitability, starting with the Fursenoks.
    Putin gave them a direct instruction - to introduce works, so they brought him to a state close to absurdity.
  8. Twilight
    Twilight April 23 2015 06: 02 New
    +2
    I think that it is better to give a detailed answer to one question than not thinking test for a hundred questions ...
  9. Twilight
    Twilight April 23 2015 06: 12 New
    +5
    They came up with a * fairy tale * about corruption in our old native education system and now they are parasitic ... Look at these supposedly * smart * ones from institutes from education and wonder how you’re wondering, they are already seriously solving the issue of replacing numerical marks with * picture ones *, t .e. if a bee is good, if a dung fly is bad ...
    1. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg April 23 2015 11: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Dusk
      They came up with a * fairy tale * about corruption in our old native education system and now they are parasitic ... Look at these supposedly * smart * ones from institutes from education and wonder how you’re wondering, they are already seriously solving the issue of replacing numerical marks with * picture ones *, t .e. if a bee is good, if a dung fly is bad ...

      I don’t know how old you are, but I know about corruption in Soviet universities from my own experience. Less this concerned specific universities - MEPhI, Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, Faculty of Mechanics and Physics of Moscow State University. But so now, there is additional. exams, and only people very interested in the subject want to study there.
      1. dmb
        dmb April 23 2015 12: 35 New
        +2
        If you will, I will join the dialogue. But who argues, of course it was. It is impossible to remake human psychology in 60-70 years, it is leaving the transition from one economic formation to another century. But he still did not have the current scale. The meaning of illicit enrichment was lost, because the school principal or university teacher who bought the Volga or a cooperative apartment in 30 years (unless of course he won the lottery) automatically aroused interest from the relevant authorities. Moreover, in the case of an honest acquisition, he had nothing to fear. Now the victims of the exam in the Moscow Engineering Physics Institute and the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology do not actually seek. Yurfak is, yes, and even then if there is an option to be distributed in the law enforcement system. Believe. that they are going, solely for the sake of the holy cause of the fight against corruption, giving the herd, sheep, more than naive.
      2. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 22: 36 New
        +3
        Quote: DoctorOleg
        I don’t know how old you are, but I know about corruption in Soviet universities from my own experience.

        I have 55, 25 of them are a teacher at school and a teacher at Kiev University. T.G.Shevchenko (though it was a long time ago).

        We can argue on this subject to hoarseness and still we will not come to anything. And despite the absolutely reliable facts from my own life (in my practice, there were no “thieves”). But the trick is that the argument itself is pointless. Corruption was, is and will be, and not only in the education system. I don’t know how to defeat her, it’s probably a matter of conscience and cleanliness of each individual teacher / teacher (and the principles of parents: they will not give, they will not take). But then again, this is IMHO, I do not pretend to be true at all.

        The question is different. The USE and its national counterparts were introduced solely for the purpose of combating (up to the complete elimination) corruption. As a side effect of this innovation, a decrease in the level of education and knowledge was predicted (this was spoken about back in the days of perestroika, then they simply stuck their mouths). Have you reached your goal? Definitely not. Education level dropped? Definitely, yes, and much higher than expected. This is what we are talking about. And who acted "for fat", and who wisely, so then life itself put it on the shelves. And, by the way, examples from my practice are also quite enough.
    2. Alex
      Alex April 23 2015 22: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: Dusk
      already seriously decide the question of replacing numerical marks with * picture *, i.e. if it is good then a bee, if bad then a dung fly ...

      Well, this is the system in general for those with Down syndrome.
  10. Bayonet
    Bayonet April 23 2015 06: 18 New
    +5
    "Let you live as a janitor, you will be born again as a foreman, And after you grow from a foreman to a minister, you will grow up. But if you are stupid like a tree, you will be born a baobab. And you will be a baobab for a thousand years while you die." - V. Vysotsky.
    It is very correctly said, so that the exam or not the exam - the result will be one! wink
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL April 23 2015 14: 21 New
      +1
      ... an annoying parrot live,
      a viper with a long eyelid!
      Isn’t it better to be a decent person in life? ...
  11. sarmaght
    sarmaght April 23 2015 06: 19 New
    +2
    Smart thinking people are dangerous, they create problems, they can answer, soulless performers are needed. There are princes - they live, and there are stinks - their life program is to eat, work, copulate. - for whom is the current education - everyone understands?
    1. nadezhiva
      nadezhiva April 23 2015 08: 17 New
      +1
      "Smart, thinking people" destroyed the Union.
      "Clever, thinking people" praised the West. They admired the abundance of synthetic sausages on the shelves.

      I don’t understand one thing: how did they, who grew up under the old education system, turn out to be “safe” in your eyes?
  12. Twilight
    Twilight April 23 2015 06: 19 New
    0
    And once I looked at these tests on history and geography there to some questions with mutually exclusive answers. And what should the children answer .....
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas April 23 2015 10: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Dusk
      once looked at these tests on history and geography there for some questions with mutually exclusive answers.
      The joke is that only mutually exclusive test answers logically reduce the chance of random guessing the correct answer, as they exclude situations where two or more answers may be correct, and the applicant needs to choose only one correct answer. The subject matter of questions and answers is a separate song, methodologically limited only by the stupidity of the compiler, nmv.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. mik0588
    mik0588 April 23 2015 06: 21 New
    +3
    Test "system" turns education into training knowledge of certain facts, weaning you from thinking
  15. fleks
    fleks April 23 2015 06: 22 New
    +2
    The introduction of the USE is one of the steps for turning our country into a colony, like all liberal economic reforms, so until the fifth column is removed from power, the USE will be a problem for our children and grandchildren
  16. smith7
    smith7 April 23 2015 06: 25 New
    +7
    My child will take over next year. I see that there is not a lot of knowledge, although the ratings seem to be not bad. In the USSR in the ninth grade I knew quite a lot and it was always interesting to learn something else. Like I were ALL (well, almost all ...) and this was the result of the education system. Now the result of today's education system in my own eyes is growing not even dumb, but very talkative reproach. They don’t even have Astronomy in the program! It wasn’t very useful to me, but I even make the simplest decisions knowing that the universe is infinite, consists of star systems and moves according to the laws of celestial mechanics. And modern children do not have the opportunity to even touch the most important category of knowledge, education is not harmonious. Fact. The fact is that "developed countries" use the Unified State Exam system for plebs, while elite schools bring up a system similar to the Soviet one. It's time to change it!
  17. Twilight
    Twilight April 23 2015 06: 27 New
    +2
    It’s just the impression that all of our GREAT SCIENTISTS were trained in a flawed education system !!!
  18. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 23 2015 06: 36 New
    +2
    As I understand it, study turned into just a guessing game. And in general, you can complete your education in the third grade, and then just memorize where to put a tick in the test. This is where consumers really cook.
  19. Egoza
    Egoza April 23 2015 06: 47 New
    +3
    The education system always fulfills the ORDER OF THE STATE! what is the order - such is the education. competent specialists and thinking people were needed — that’s when the USSR was. Now we need consumers who do not reason, cannot think logically and critically - get the exam
    1. Doctorleg
      Doctorleg April 23 2015 11: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: Egoza
      The education system always fulfills the ORDER OF THE STATE! what is the order - such is the education. competent specialists and thinking people were needed — that’s when the USSR was. Now we need consumers who do not reason, cannot think logically and critically - get the exam

      In the USSR, there was an order for techies; here physics, chemistry, mathematics were profiling. And in humanitarian subjects - literature, history, economic geography, social science were ideologized and did not develop thinking, since it was necessary to learn to speak in cliches. And technical subjects were taught in too much detail. I remember in chemistry we studied cracking in detail, in physics - all sorts of rules for gimlets. But I did not become a refiner, and I forgot cracking the next day after passing the exam. But simple things how to make different wiring (three-phase, with grounding, etc.) so that you are not killed did not teach. This was the problem - the isolation of learning from life, not the ability to put knowledge into practice. This was then taught at the institute.
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL April 23 2015 14: 25 New
        +1
        The Unified State Examination looks like something on the “ballistic defense tower” of the Unknown Fathers from the “Inhabited Island” ... Saraksh ... massaraks!
  20. Slovek
    Slovek April 23 2015 06: 48 New
    0
    To be objective, any innovation must be checked on officials and deputies. They came up with the Unified State Examination, which means arranging an Unified State Examination for them, but it’s more difficult in terms of level, because they are “successful and wealthy elite of the nation” and see the results of those who answered poorly, lose their salaries and who are really bad, lose their posts. Let the officials themselves then squabble among themselves who is to blame for their innovations and whether they should be introduced for young people.
  21. fomkin
    fomkin April 23 2015 06: 52 New
    +2
    I mainly know about the Unified State Examination according to Zadornov.
  22. Alexdark
    Alexdark April 23 2015 07: 05 New
    +4
    It was always strange to watch people who only heard about the exam. Which have a certain persistent stereotype, from comedians with TV. No need to talk about what you don’t really know. I passed the exam, tests there once or twice and miscalculated. Especially now. This is much better than the classic graduation tests at the school, where they all gave you “udo”, only for beautiful eyes. And it was at all times of the USSR. And migrated here to Russia. The unified state examination is a much stricter option than obsolete foundations and a decayed system. Yes, this is not ideal, but it’s better. And if you take into account that there is a test part, it takes 30-40% of the entire exam, not everyone will be able to pass the Unified State Examination at random.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb April 23 2015 07: 25 New
      +1
      right now they’ll say this: But please, your attention is a good example of a flawed consumer, a liberal brought up by the current education system, the exam product)
    2. perm23
      perm23 April 23 2015 07: 36 New
      +1
      Well, here we all have the first gift from the exam. He knows everything. Without even thinking that the others who write here can also know firsthand about the exam. And the system immediately decomposed and moral foundations are not needed. Here they are students of the exam.
    3. Stanislas
      Stanislas April 23 2015 10: 21 New
      0
      Quote: AlexDARK
      The unified state examination is a much stricter option than obsolete foundations and a decayed system.
      Modern technologies make it possible to control the processes of choosing a ticket number, preparation and the most verbal or written answer much more stringent than the exam. The question here will rest on the correspondence of the class-lesson system and the principle of “overseeing and punishing” modern ideas about the world, man and his knowledge, nmv.
  23. Basilevs
    Basilevs April 23 2015 07: 12 New
    +1
    "... Then I decided - I’ll take it and I’ll unlearn it at the school. I’ve unlearned. And I definitely don’t feel myself an outcast. Is there always work. Do managers with two higher education have it? In the store, transfer boxes from shelf to shelf - why it was necessary to take a place in the university ... "

    Higher education - This is very, very !! It’s not like something, but something like that !! Learn, son, at the teacher !! Look, my neighbor - she gets ten thousand! Cool watch !! Portfolio !! Papers for the week - only a kilo worn out !! Romance!!!

    ..No, dad, I'm better at the cashier at Magnet. Just a tag, and no romance ... And I manal this university.
  24. samarin1969
    samarin1969 April 23 2015 07: 12 New
    +3
    “And now they are stupidly bison ...” Ha ha! .. For 20 years I have seen only a dozen of such students, this is a myth ... the students are completely lacking motivation to study ... ruining education does not need universal education.
    And the exam - it is neither bad nor good - it is simply superfluous and expensive ... Lazy children should be expelled from school, and able to receive the right to additional education. But higher education has turned into an expensive ritual where they give general knowledge and do not teach practical work (with the exception of doctors) ... Therefore, "managers toss boxes on the shelves." When the Russian Federation entered Crimea, there was a lot of talk about the value of "good brains." My son is an excellent pupil, he won everything and everything in the district ... But he has few prospects for a good higher education ... oooh very expensive, and the whole "budget" for "nephews" and "nieces" .
  25. xorgi
    xorgi April 23 2015 07: 26 New
    -2
    Once again, fairy tales about the bad exam were sent. Tests are just a method; it cannot be bad or good. The USE is, of course, not an ideal option, and the embodiment is not very good, but oral answers as well as written works have their drawbacks, and it is also impossible to apply them on a national scale. The USE problem is not a very good technical execution (compilation of questions) and the position of a number of teachers: "The USE is bad, we will drag children into it" - you need to teach, not drag it.
    The problem of modern education is the lack of parents' attention to children and the high self-esteem of both parents and children. If your child has not passed the exam, it means that the exam is not bad, and the level of knowledge of your child is not so significant. Knowledge cannot be gained by hard cramming in one year, only systematic work throughout the school life. And then it turns out that we are looking for math on the Internet, we do English with Google, Russian with Word, and dad ... and dad plays in tanks. And then we say my child did not pass the exam. Turn off the Internet and TV, put the child for textbooks for two hours, and then another two hours for additional literature, then walk for three hours and a couple more hours, but already for fiction, and you need to do (teach) from the first grade not in the eighth. And if he spent five years on the Internet, and then taught the exam for twenty hours, then there will be no sense.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL April 23 2015 14: 30 New
      +1
      Tests are a "trick 22".
  26. lao_tsy
    lao_tsy April 23 2015 07: 38 New
    +4
    Why break one of the best education systems in the world? Why reinvent the wheel when the education system worked well in the USSR?
    There were some shortcomings there, but it was necessary not to introduce the EXE, but to improve what is.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness April 23 2015 10: 31 New
      +3
      Anti-Sovietization
  27. Nehist
    Nehist April 23 2015 07: 48 New
    +2
    I have repeatedly discussed the Unified State Exam system with teachers who taught me, my younger sister, and still work at school! I took from them and the exam for the solution for interest. In general, a completely failing system makes you think stereotyped. If for mathematics and physics this can still be somehow justified, then for the Russian language, and especially literature, this is complete nonsense. Well, about the history of geography is simply ridiculous, if it were not so sad. The whole world recognized that in the USSR there was a better education system and that we got it apart? However, like the union itself ...
    1. nadezhiva
      nadezhiva April 23 2015 08: 34 New
      +1
      The whole world has always recognized our education just in mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology. Not at all in Russian and literature.
      History now it's a whole different song winked

      Correction: the system of education did not destroy the exam. It began to fall apart in the 90s and the beginning of zero. The giants were not in vain winked
      And the exam is just one way to quickly reverse the process of collapse. Highlight smart-capable-hardworking and persistent. Send them to study further at universities. And that’s it.
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL April 23 2015 14: 33 New
        +1
        It’s hard to disagree with the first part, but with the second one, you can’t agree in any case! Everything is exactly the opposite!
        1. nadezhiva
          nadezhiva April 23 2015 19: 16 New
          -1
          ??? There were three parts. Or not?
  28. ava09
    ava09 April 23 2015 08: 34 New
    +1
    [/ quote] So it used to be taught, now they provide educational services. Here is such a perversion [/ quote]
    Shorter and clearer the essence of the phenomenon is difficult to express.
  29. valentina-makanalina
    valentina-makanalina April 23 2015 08: 36 New
    0
    Do we need schools in the form in which they now exist?
    Why do we need such programs and teachers, if do not pass the exam without a tutor?
    Or are teachers especially so bad at teaching at school, so that they could then get money on the side, or are they a complete zero?
    We do not have a normal education now.
    Everyone wants to be sure to finish school and go to college. Is that necessary?
    Maybe enough and incomplete secondary? If a person does not pull, why should he be pulled over the ears to the certificate of complete secondary education, especially underestimating the points on the exam.
    Russia needs hands more than certified mediocrity.

    And the Russian Orthodox Church should be thanked for at least thinking about the younger generation.
    Now, probably as before, it’s better to graduate from a “parish school” than our secondary school.
    1. Trogvar
      Trogvar April 23 2015 10: 44 New
      0
      Quote: valentina-makanalina
      Or teachers specifically teach so badly at school that they would then inflict money on the side, or they themselves are a complete zero

      so it turns out that way. “I should not teach your children, the program should teach them how to get knowledge. And you should teach them at home,” and this is the teacher of primary colossus at the parent meeting.
      1. Alex
        Alex April 23 2015 22: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: Trogwar
        “I should not teach your children, the program should teach them how to get knowledge. And you should teach them at home,” and this is the teacher of primary colossus at the parent meeting.

        Between almost, she practically literally quoted the paradigm of modern education. That is how future teachers are now taught at pedagogical universities, that is how teachers are retrained in "retraining" courses, and that is what all curricula are designed for. But I’m doing everything the old-fashioned way, as my grandfather (teacher and principal) told my mom and dad (chemistry and physics teachers and university professors), and they told me: “Remember, children will only know exactly what you taught them in the lesson. Everything else is like a good app. " So I’m teaching, giving my best in the lesson and turning green with the hope that at least one of them will pick up the textbook and repeat the homework even before the lesson (on the eve of the evening - this is from the realm of utopia). But where is it, Warcraft and WoT - I’m not their competitor ...
    2. Darkness
      Darkness April 23 2015 13: 11 New
      0
      Have you got a children? What school do they attend?
      1. Alex
        Alex April 24 2015 14: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: Darkness
        Have you got a children? What school do they attend?

        If mine, then the children have already finished school, the grandchildren have not yet begun. The son graduated from an ordinary school in Kiev, not the best and not the worst. For the implementation of d / s with his wife watched strictly, no buzzes and computers to 11 class. The options “asked us nothing” did not go by definition, “there is no textbook” - either (though it was easier for us here: both are third-generation teachers, a library of scientific and methodical literature was formed from my grandfather (from the 30's), owned the technique, did not hire tutors). There is no book at home - there is a library at the school and a district for children, the whimper of “there are a lot of useful books on the Internet” had no consequences. There was no mobile phone before graduation either, and believe me, there were no problems (this is because the parents cluck "they need control over the child", "there are so many dangers", etc., and they simply arrange the purses competition in the class). He entered the university himself where he wanted and what he wanted (history and law), now he works at our factory in the legal department and has a clock on history in the school.

        I understand that my case is not quite typical (or completely atypical), but what was the matter with me that many parents are unable to provide? Maybe it’s just worth REALLY loving your children and taking care of their future, and not “paying off” with expensive mobile phones paid for with unknown content and self-cuddling “let the school teach”. I’m wondering how many times a year parents come to school at least to the class teacher? And how many times themselves, not at the parent meeting? And in what way do they communicate with teachers: with complaints or is it a constructive conversation? I understand that the teacher to the teacher is the difference, but the parent to the parent too.
  30. ava09
    ava09 April 23 2015 08: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: Editor
    The wording of the question (during + what?) Cuts off the third option, the absence of the word “war” is the second, but for some reason there is no certainty that the authors of the test thought so. What only "pearls" now you will not hear and do not read ...

    This is an elementary fragmentation of consciousness, that is, wrecking and crime.
  31. Million
    Million April 23 2015 08: 51 New
    +1
    Fursenko and Livanova - to prison for the collapse of the education system! Russia has done so much harm that it takes a long time to disentangle!
    1. Darkness
      Darkness April 23 2015 10: 33 New
      +1
      Excuse me, who do they obey?
      1. Million
        Million April 23 2015 11: 31 New
        0
        Putin ordered them to ruin everything?
        1. Darkness
          Darkness April 23 2015 13: 12 New
          +1
          I have no idea, but they work code by Putin’s leadership and he doesn’t fire them.
  32. Siberia55
    Siberia55 April 23 2015 08: 51 New
    +1
    Give a rollback of the education system for 1990 year !!!
    1. Alex
      Alex April 23 2015 22: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: Siberia55
      Give a rollback of the education system for 1990 year !!!

      On 1960. Adjusted for modern theories and facts.
  33. ava09
    ava09 April 23 2015 08: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Denis
    Quote: elenagromova
    but in many places there’s even no Internet ...

    Even where not many parents can afford computers, alas ...
    It's a pity

    Your answer is a vivid example of the effects of the exam. Instead of paying attention to the deficiency of this system, you turned to options for solving the false problems that it offers. It doesn’t matter if you were educated in the Soviet era or already in “free Russia”, it is precisely this kind of thinking that supporters of the USE seek.
  34. ava09
    ava09 April 23 2015 09: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Stanislav
    Quote: perm23
    from the time of the USSR we ourselves have absorbed what our parents told us and now we are repeating it. We then all sought to get higher education. A diploma was needed no matter what it was, so that it was possible to settle in a good place. That's all. And we are also behaving now.
    In the words “settle down on a good place” all lies, corruption, economic inefficiency and social injustice of the late USSR are focused. If grandmother had the asceticism of the Secretary-General and the responsibility of the highest echelons of power of the time of Stalin became the norm, there would have been more people who love their work, and the words “good place” and “to settle down” would rarely be used in one sentence. Something important was missing in the USSR in order to instill in the citizens a communist attitude to work.

    It is a pity that I can put only one plus ...
  35. ava09
    ava09 April 23 2015 09: 07 New
    +1
    [quote = ava09] [/ quote] So it used to be taught, now it provides educational services. Here is such a perversion [/ quote]
    Shorter and clearer the essence of the phenomenon is difficult to express. [/ Quote]
    ))) Fursenko appeared on the site - minus the evidence ...)))
  36. CONTROL
    CONTROL April 23 2015 09: 09 New
    -2
    Do you think that teachers are delighted with the exam?
    Yes, I think - some are thrilled. The load is much less (he gave paragraphs, passed tests, and - hang around pears!).
    And so, in general - and aspired to that! The Unified State Exam has been copied from the French system of teaching children with developmental delays - downs and problems, this fact, by the way, is now carefully hidden!
    The purpose of the exam is to plant, water, fertilize and grow a functionary for the world of the "golden billion", which in fact will be a hundred thousand ...
    ... So much has been written about this that you cannot list and re-read it! But - things are still there: Legislatively secured the exclusion of an individual approach to education - training - a member of society!which, apparently, should determine its future - this society ...
    ... Well, and what kind of society of the future are we laying down?
    The war that Western civilization is waging with our Russian civilization - we have already lost! Here we leave, old people, people of the 70s - 90s will leave; and - after about 70 years - what comes to be called in Russian the semi-indecent word "khan" ...
    1. Darkness
      Darkness April 23 2015 10: 38 New
      0
      The consumer society is being laid.
  37. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn April 23 2015 10: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: sergey32
    Unfortunately, the reality is that if we go back to the former Soviet system for passing exams, you will have to pay so much at school for good exam results that there will be little light for children from poor families.

    I pay for three subjects of preparation in the Unified State Examination, while my son studies very well (more precisely, I studied) now everything else is in the background, they have refused one subject, you are sure that you can afford to pay 10-15 parents of poor families thousand rubles a month? For all that, the question is not that the subject is not known and studied, the question is that to pass the exam, they teach NOT THE SUBJECT, AND THE TECHNOLOGY OF ITS DELIVERY!
  38. Darkness
    Darkness April 23 2015 10: 37 New
    +3
    Twitter Nanotolich, I clearly said that "we must educate a generation of good consumers." What, in fact, do.
    No one has come up with a better education than the Soviet system.
    I have a daughter in the first grade, they ask so much that we do half the lessons with my wife for the child, because the spinogryza does not have any strength left.
    And this is only the first class.
  39. nadezhiva
    nadezhiva April 23 2015 10: 41 New
    0


    What does the exam ???? In Dagestan, at least the exam, at least the exams ... The question here is not the exam, but only corruption.

    Now, if applicants from the former republics in Russia re-wrote core subjects, even if in the form of tests, there wouldn’t be almost No problem.
  40. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn April 23 2015 10: 54 New
    +1
    The exam is of course imperfect. But who will propose a system that will force the child not to memorize material, but to create something, to create, using the knowledge he found. And then offer an objective system for evaluating the result. How to make sure that a child who has finished a village school has the same knowledge as the capital’s schoolchild, and has the opportunity to enter the capital’s university.
    1. Magadan
      Magadan April 23 2015 11: 17 New
      +2
      such a system was in the USSR. I learned from it. And we have scorned the cramps, forcing us to constantly think with our heads, justify the point of view, and even (oh horror!) - ERROR! At the same time, if you saw that you were mistaken when trying to THINK, they were encouraged in every way.
  41. Magadan
    Magadan April 23 2015 11: 15 New
    0
    Quote: nadezhiva
    The exam is just a social elevator for smart children. I passed the required number of points - I entered the chosen specialty, at the chosen institute.


    I did not pass any exam. I chose to go to college - passed the competition and entered. And here I did not understand the exam? What does not suit the old Soviet competition at the institute? Now what, according to the Unified State Examination it is possible to enter MGIMO without money / dough or what? Figs with two believe.

    In general, no matter how you dodge, whatever you say, but the Soviet school was the best in the world. The victories of our students in all international competitions are proof of this. And the hell had to be repaired what works so well, I don’t understand. Except as conscious wrecking, I can’t explain it in any way. The one who introduced the exam is the enemy of the people. No kidding.
  42. Million
    Million April 23 2015 11: 33 New
    +1
    Quote: Million
    Fursenko and Livanova - to prison for the collapse of the education system! Russia has done so much harm that it takes a long time to disentangle!
    Two minuses! Is Fursenko and Lebanon reading VO?
    1. Magadan
      Magadan April 23 2015 11: 40 New
      0
      laughing

      cool said !!!
  43. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn April 23 2015 11: 59 New
    -2
    Quote: Magadan
    such a system was in the USSR. I learned from it. And we have scorned the cramps, forcing us to constantly think with our heads, justify the point of view, and even (oh horror!) - ERROR! At the same time, if you saw that you were mistaken when trying to THINK, they were encouraged in every way.

    Under the Soviet system, paragraphs were memorized in the same way and grades were obtained. And I won’t even talk about the subjectivity of a teacher who didn’t love you. They took bribes both at school and at institutes, and wrote them off whenever possible. So it’s not necessary that the grass was greener then.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness April 23 2015 13: 14 New
      +1
      I probably studied on another planet.
      And for a bribe they could also shoot)))
  44. legorell
    legorell April 23 2015 13: 13 New
    -1
    Do not forget that the computer evaluates it, and the results are transmitted through the network. The network is the Internet. The Internet is a web. And spiders weave a web. The spider is a predator, cold-blooded, more precisely an insect, and it will eat and kill even if there is a bulk of food.
  45. CONTROL
    CONTROL April 23 2015 13: 58 New
    +1
    ... The clever do not need us - the faithful need! ... I would ask: literate? Do you write poems? to count you! do you know the tables? at stake, you know too much ... Bina, donut, three more circles and a serving of stewed rabbit!

    When is it written by the Strugatsky? and what kind of world? Arkanar? or RF ...
  46. aleksandr.k
    aleksandr.k April 23 2015 15: 56 New
    +2
    There are quite a few elementary traitors sitting in power, maybe the truth is, is war better? When this bastard gets drunk dollars and disappears like an encephalitic tick from the national body.
  47. aviator1913
    aviator1913 April 23 2015 17: 04 New
    +1
    So which of you passed the exam?
    In 2008, I successfully passed it in three subjects, while I did not go to expensive courses and did not sit with tutors in the evenings. He just sat at home, read additional literature, prepared.
    My school had a humanitarian bias, the basis of English and German. At the same time, physics often disappeared because it was on residual funding, it was cut in every way, it had some kind of activities, but it was my choice when I chose a school. At the same time at the exam I received 80 points in physics and almost the same in mathematics. At the same time, I did not go to numerous exams at universities, but just filed the necessary documents, which I entered learned when I was on a campaign, having arrived at the base.
    So those who scold the Unified State Exam (especially in technical subjects) simply never passed it, or they believe the words of lazy schoolchildren, or their children, who attribute their failures to the imperfection of the system.
  48. anip
    anip April 23 2015 18: 33 New
    -1
    Off-topic, but interesting news:

    The prosecutor asked for suspended sentences for Vasilyeva and her accomplices

    http://ria.ru/incidents/20150423/1060490331.html
    1. anip
      anip April 24 2015 09: 32 New
      0
      Ha, minus someone. What, the news of Putin's Russia do not like? Well, as it is.
  49. anip
    anip April 23 2015 18: 41 New
    0
    The article about the exam is written correctly, but only in the article there are grammatical and syntax errors ... Hmm ... Also, probably, the author of the exam passed.
  50. Tribuns
    Tribuns April 23 2015 20: 59 New
    0
    In Russian education, now everything, as in the West, that does not fit into the needs of the market, is excluded.

    Why? Yes, because the global market, in Russia and in the West, does not need a moral, educated, well-knowing history of his Fatherland. That's why there is a separation of education from education.

    PS The prime minister is liberal, most of the ministers are liberals, the economic bloc of the Government is liberal, Gaidar-Yasinsky ... And for them, the West is a guideline, including education