The United States laid on the USSR responsibility for World War II

On the occasion of the 72 anniversary of the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the US Embassy in Estonia issued a statement in which, along with Nazi Germany, it laid the responsibility for the start of World War II on the USSR. The document, published on the official website of the US diplomatic mission 23 of August, notes that by signing the non-aggression pact more than seventy years ago, Germany and the Soviet Union put Europe and the whole world on the path of inevitable war. The statement also says that the two totalitarian regimes made secret additional protocols to the Covenant, which divided Europe into relevant spheres of influence.

The US Embassy draws attention to the fact that Estonia has never forgotten the catastrophic consequences of this step, and now for twenty-seven years, including the dark years of occupation, a group of people has gathered in Tallinn Hirve Park to celebrate the signing of the above-mentioned documents. “Estonia is not the only country celebrating the anniversary of these fateful events. In 2009, the European Parliament decided to celebrate on this day the European Day of Remembrance for the victims of all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes, also sometimes called the Day of the Black Ribbon,” informs the US diplomatic mission in Tallinn. This is reported by the Information Portal of the Russian community in Estonia Baltija.eu.

Comments

[Ragnarek]

nothing surprising. a little more time and it turns out that the USSR attacked Germany. Preparation is underway (see Suvorov-Rezun)

[Vadim]

By the way, more than half of Japanese schoolchildren think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the work of the USSR

[zczczc]

Mlyn, how I regret that the USSR collapsed - you could hang it on anyone.
What fools were after Stalin at the helm ...

[Rashid]

No wonder. The United States always supports provocateurs, it approves of Japan's claims to the Russian islands, then it arms Georgia, in short, it always pushes everyone's heads together, while smiling and talking about the "reset" and other crap.

[zczczc]

Once again, I remind you of the most correct phrase of Bismarck: "I am not interested in the plans of our enemies, I am interested in their capabilities."

We must have strength, under which we sneeze on the fuss of degenerates around and around. And the power we rooted through the traitor humpback ...

[indrik]

soon the civil war in the states will be presented as the machinations of tsarism.))) Although it sounds like, but with proper funding, nothing is impossible. ((

[Foamas]

Maybe the Balts are somewhat right? After all, in 1940. The Soviet Union brought troops into the territory of these independent states, there was a change of power (which the people did not particularly support). After the war, independence, as countries of the Warsaw Pact, was not granted to them. Of course, they will now equate the USSR with Germany.

[cabin boy]

What are independent states? Peter I bought the Baltic States from Sweden after the Northern War, when they give back the money paid with interest that they ran in during this time, then they will talk about independence, but for now, they illegally seized someone else's property!

[Foamas]

But, after all, even Lenin, signed the decree on the independence of Estonia in 1918. The Baltic countries were recognized in Europe and the USSR, had all the attributes of statehood - the army, currency, parliament, diplomatic missions.

[cabin boy]

Taking advantage of the fact that Russia-the USSR were weak after two revolutions, they took away a piece of land for which we paid not only with Efim, but also with blood, when the USSR gained strength, thanks to Comrade Stalin, we returned to us what was torn off illegally. And if you think Estonia is an independent state, explain to me why they, loving to compare themselves with Finland, didn’t follow its path, and rushed headlong into NADO, the euro zone, and the population just flees to Europe?

[Foamas]

Finland, too, gained independence after the revolution, before that it was also part of Russia, since the same Peter's times, in the war it was generally an ally of Germany, but after it received full sovereignty. Naturally, Estonians compare themselves with them, the "initial data" were the same, but the result? ps Finland has long been in the "euro" zone, and the results of the Potsdam conference prevented them from getting into NATO, where it was just decided that Austria and Finland would be independent, only on condition of military neutrality.

[cabin boy]

Inquire about the status of Finland as part of the Russian Empire, and then draw parallels about independence.

[Foamas]

Yes, it is clear that Finland was a separate duchy. You asked: "Why is Estonia so fond of comparing itself with Finland, but has now rushed to NATO and the euro, and did not follow its path?" I, expressed my opinion - why. Legally for 1940. Estonia and Finland were absolutely equal subjects of international law, and it is likely that if only after the war they received the same rights, then Estonia would be a friendly neighbor. ps And in general, in the first post I wrote "Maybe in something right?", it is clear that not in everything!

[ballian]

Can't you see that you are arguing with a fanatic - an imperialist for whom everything that used to be part of the Russian Empire before should be part of Russia? It is pointless.
Show him here a map of Lithuania of the 16 century - and you will see how his roof eats up
:)))))))))
And someone else is surprised that the Baltics are afraid of Russia - they know that there are fanatics here - invaders like "cabin boy", probably the majority.

[cabin boy]

In 1990-1991 he served in Latvia, in June 1991 he walked around Riga in uniform all day, never once heard that he was an occupier. The idea that "the Russian invaders and Russia are to blame for all the troubles of the Baltic states" is a meme that is stubbornly hammered into the heads of ordinary Balts because of the political impotence of their current government, which is not capable of anything other than licking the owner. In the USSR, the Baltics were a showcase; in the EU, not even a backyard, but a latrine pit. In the USSR, the Balts were equal among equals, in the EU they are at the level of Asians and Africans, second-class people. Did the "freedom-loving politicians of the independent Baltic states" promise this?
Got independence, work, and began to present bills and arbitrarily determine the starting point of International Law, we can also present a lot of things.

[cabin boy]

I cannot say better than the Russian Foreign Ministry said: “The official position of the Russian Foreign Ministry is that the accession of the Baltic countries to the USSR did not contradict the norms of international law as of 1940, and also that the entry of these countries into the USSR received official international recognition. the position is based on the de facto recognition of the integrity of the USSR's borders as of June 1941 at the Yalta and Potsdam conferences by the participating states, as well as on the recognition in 1975 of the inviolability of European borders by the participants of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe. "
Why is the position of the Baltic states after 1918 a reference point for international law for you?

[ballian]

Have you been interested in this issue? For example, the United States generally did not recognize the annexation of the Baltic states, Great Britain recognized it only "de facto" - the fact that our Foreign Ministry was mumbling about something - that is his job.
It is well known how these countries were added there - the performance turned out to be quite good.
By the way, the Balts themselves did not vote for accession at all, even those parliaments that they allegedly elected (98 - 99% "for" :)) did not mention any accession to the USSR in their programs.

[cabin boy]

For those who do not know how to read, I repeat "This position is based on the de facto recognition of the integrity of the USSR's borders in June 1941 at the Yalta and Potsdam conferences by the participating states" and at the Yalta and Potsdam conferences, the United States was full participants. In 1975, not a single official - expletive - removed - didn’t blather that the Baltic States had become part of the USSR illegally, by signing documents on the inviolability of borders, they recognized the legality.
As well as disconnected, the performance was no less interesting.
At the time of the signing of the Moscow Non-aggression Treaty between Germany and the Soviet Union of 1939, England and France had the same non-attack treaties with Germany; no one accuses them of dividing Europe, although there are more reasons for this. At the time of the accession to the USSR of the territories of Western Ukraine and Belarus illegally occupied by Poland, Small Britain and France, if they considered the USSR to be an aggressor, were obliged, according to the international agreements they signed, to declare war. Then they did not announce, that is, they recognized the legality of the actions of the USSR. Now they are trying to play back.
I repeat once again, they began to revise history and present, we can also review and present a lot of things.

[Foamas]

The article is about the responsibility of Germany and the USSR, for Estonia this is really the same in terms of the number of human losses.

[cabin boy]

So I say, Estonia will get the right to express its opinion only after it repays the debts of Peter I

[Foamas]

What kind of dogs? ... What is the amount? .. The Estonian commission for assessing the damage from the occupation of the USSR has already counted a large amount. Maybe "let's part by the edges"?

[cabin boy]

The method of calculating the Estonian commission - if ... then .... The fact that Peter I paid the money of Sweden for the land where the Baltic countries are now located is a historical fact. Feel the difference?
I have already expressed my point of view several times, for the gifted I repeat. There is international law and, as in any law, the law has no retroactive effect. There were no complaints under the section. Now have arisen. In the same thing, pretension unexpectedly arose.

[Foamas]

You have some, painfully free interpretation of International Law; the introduction of troops, the change of state power, repressions against the dissenting part of the population on the territory of an independent subject of international law, are they not * a direct act of aggression * ?! And did not these actions have "catastrophic consequences" for the young and small Republic of Estonia?

[cabin boy]

In 1945 and 1975 there were no complaints? Did not have. And for those who are not particularly understanding, I can still remember Yuryev’s tribute that the Livonian Confederation promised to pay Ivan III for the city of Yuryev (Derpt). wake up give money or what?

[Foamas]

How, do you imagine * the presentation of claims "in 45-75. From Estonia, when it had already ceased to be independent? The agreements of" hoary antiquity "have nothing to do with the case. And what about the debts? ...... How- then money? .....

[cabin boy]

Tell me the claims and convictions of the USSR at the time of the separation of the Baltic countries. Where, by whom and when nominated?
The article writes that the US Embassy in Estonia condemned blah, blah, blah. At the time of 45-75 there were no convictions; no blame was laid. And now op, totalitarianism = fascism, USSR = Hitler Germany.
So which of us freely interprets international law?

[Foamas]

Okay, .... it is clear, you evaluate this rhetoric on the scale of all of Europe, but I, according to my FIRST post, suggested that "the Balts and Estonia, in particular, are right in some way", because for them equality
USSR = Germany in 1940. does not require proof, even though you agree with this? Now * about the section and convictions * - 12.11.89/1940/22.07.40. The Supreme Soviet of the Estonian SSR adopted a resolution "On the historical and legal assessment of the events of 20." which recognizes the illegality of the declaration of XNUMX. about joining the USSR and classifies further events as forced annexation and military occupation with all the ensuing legal consequences for the aggressor (up to the extradition of war criminals). And by the way, the Soviet Union requisitioned XNUMX tons. gold from the National Bank of Estonia. Do you think this is enough to compensate for the ancient Peter's debts?

[cabin boy]

Again a free interpretation of international law. On April 3, 1990, the Supreme Soviet of the USSR passed a law declaring the declarations of the Supreme Soviets of the Baltic Republics on the annulment of entry into the USSR and subsequent decisions arising from it legally void.

"On January 12, 1991, during the visit to Tallinn of the Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR Boris Yeltsin, between him and the Chairman of the Supreme Soviet of the Republic of Estonia Arnold Ruutel was signed" Treaty on the basis of interstate relations between the RSFSR and the Republic of Estonia ", in which both parties recognized each other as sovereign states and subjects of international law "- this is the document of legal force for international law. What was written there, I do not know, I have not yet managed to find the document itself, but I doubt that it says there about the illegality of joining in 1940.

[cabin boy]

Sorry for the break.
FoMaS Today, 01:30 AM
"what" the Balts and Estonia ........... for them equality
USSR = Germany in 1940. does not require proof "
You do not accidentally blurt out this only at the rally of veterans of the 20th SS Grenadier Division, it is among the Russian-speaking intelligentsia that they may sprinkle ashes on their heads with an apologetic look, and they, despite their age for such equality, may not be sickly. Once again, for the slow-witted, I repeat, the equality of fascism and communism is a MEM that is hammered into the heads of ordinary Balts to make the basis that "the Russian occupiers and Russia are to blame for all the troubles of the Baltic states", and then demand money in international courts.

"... And by the way, the Soviet Union requisitioned 20 tons of gold from the National Bank of Estonia ..."
But does not the "fraternal Estonian people" want to share the foreign debt of the USSR in a brotherly manner, or again only "Russian occupants" ate in three belts and forcibly implanted culture and industry in the poor provinces? By the way, do not tell us what happened to both in independent Estonia, did the "Russian occupants" take with them?

[Foamas]

Of course, these are damned Muscovites !!! Well still !!! Now, seriously, when was the last time you spoke with a living "ordinary Estonian"? He could say that it’s Putin’s propaganda that hammers into your head the myth of the insidious Estonians and equates them with the Nazis, just because of these congresses, (half fake) SS veterans and a dozen young idiots from Isamaalite, remember how this information is presented on Russian TV, what is the offscreen commentary. The official position of the Estonian side, on the issue raised in the article on the division of mutual responsibility of totalitarian regimes, is reduced specifically to the Republic of Estonia in 1940. in the context of the pact and protocol of 1939. (simplified, the meaning is as follows: in 1938 - Estonia officially declared full military neutrality and was not going to fight with anyone, 1940 - forced annexation (repression), 1941-44 - military operations (split in society), 1945-51 .-banditry, repression.) And they wanted not to participate in the war at all, like Sweden and remain independent), but since the USSR brought in troops, Germany had to fight on the territory of Estonia, mutual responsibility, isn't it logical? Estonia will not achieve anything in international courts in terms of financial compensation, since It is really easy for Russia to prove that the USSR invested much more material and technical resources in the development of the territory of modern Estonia than the republic could have in 40g. The main emphasis will be on organizing the process of repression, and rightly so, German SS criminals were tried, but there are no NKVD officers! Therefore, I wrote "maybe in some way right." Oh, you just talk about money ... eh ...

[cabin boy]

Strange, but didn’t you use wikipedia again because the exact opposite is written there?
FoMaS: "Estonia has officially declared its full military neutrality and was not going to fight with anyone."
wikipedia: "On June 19 (1939, added by me), the Estonian Ambassador to Moscow, August Rey, at a meeting with the British Ambassador Seeds, said that in the event of a German war against the USSR, Estonia would side with Germany."
According to the source link [30 -http: //www.hrono.ru/sobyt/1900war/1939prib.php] we find even more interesting information: "1939.05.25/XNUMX/XNUMX - ESTONIA. Tallinn. Statement by Selter's Foreign Ministry at a meeting of the State Duma Commission on Foreign Policy and defense, that "England does not object to the conclusion of the German-Estonian pact and opposes the Soviet-Estonian alliance."
As it is now and then, the Estonian state was not a subject of international law, whom the owner spoke to bark, that one barked, whom he said to wag his tail, that they wagged.

"The main emphasis will be on organizing the repression process, and rightfully so, German SS criminals were tried, but there are no NKVD officers!"
Maybe first we recognize the genocide of Russians by the Estonian state, because "In 1919-1920, most of General Yudenich's North-Western White Army, interned by Estonia, died from disease and hunger in camps on the territory of Estonia and a significant part of Russian refugees."

[Foamas]

I took the data from the IRL, well, duck, they seem to coincide with Vika. At the beginning of WW2, Estonia was a neutral and independent state, it had no legally formalized international obligations, neither to Germany, nor England, nor the USSR. The Soviet Union brought in troops under a fantastic pretext, etc ....... see above ..... Okay, .... I'm tired of this historical and legal casuistry, I talked with "living Estonians" from Mustvee at work, quite sane people, without Nazi bends, what he wrote about, as it were, the weighted average position of ordinary citizens, in their city this date will indeed be celebrated for a long time (the bias is church). Nobody talks about money, the feat of ordinary Russian soldiers is not a hayat, but about the NKVD they start to get nervous, the arguments: who was in the SS were shot, or they served 15 years in prison + their relatives were repressed, and the NKVDeshniki went unpunished! (after all, someone specific drew up and signed lists for executions, department). I agree with the latter. And in general, I think that if the Baltic had gained independence after the war, then there would not have been such problems as now (example of the Finns).

[cabin boy]

Regarding the historical and legal casuistry. There was such a country the Russian Empire, it was not legally divided (this is a separate conversation, now I ask you to take it as a fact in building the logical chain) using our weakness, now we take a map and look at the USSR in 1940 and compare it with the map of RI in 1917. We took something superfluous and not previously belonged to us?

Regarding ordinary Estonian guys and the Estonian state, let's not confuse the warm with the soft. I have already written that the thought that "the Russian occupants are to blame for everything" is simply DRUGGING into the heads of living Estonians, and in 15 years (the next generation) they will simply be sure of it. And this is hammered in because the state of Estonia (government officials) is impotent and 20 years of independence have shown it. Estonia, as an independent state, is needed only to voice the will of its masters under the label "but this is the opinion of an INDEPENDENT state." Proof can be at least yesterday's news "An anti-Russian politician again became president of Estonia" http://top.rbc.ru/politics/29/08/2011/612761.shtml.

Concerning the NKVD. Do you sincerely believe that over the 20 years of independence the Estonian state has not learned the names of those who made the lists? It's just that the names themselves are not needed by anyone, because most of them will be, for example, Latsis, Eichmans, etc., the thought is needed "the bloody NKVD has not been punished" Further, the NKVD = USSR, the Russian Federation is the successor of the USSR, which means that every RUSSIAN must repent and pay.

About the problems. The Russian Federation has no complaints and problems because we comply with international law, have signed an agreement with Estonia and adhere to it, Estonia has claims to Russia (it would be surprising if they were not, I’m sure, the times of the Livonian war would begin to recall). Finns, you are deeply mistaken (for example, the server of the Caucasus Center), simply in the state administration of Finland there are more people who are friends with their own heads and understand that they are responsible to their CITIZENS, and not to the cattle of the conquered part of the territory about tivnik.

[Foamas]

Even, I don’t know what to say ..........., we will consider the topic closed. ps "simple Estonian guys" will arrive on 05.09.11. for equipment diagnostics, I will carry out * serious consultations and investigative work * with them.

[cabin boy]

Just do not overdo it in "explanatory work", otherwise they will be considered an agent of the KGB and will instruct minuses in karma, or they will not come to diagnose equipment at all
For, so to speak, broadening my horizons on historical issues, I advise you to read the books of Nikolai Starikov, in particular "1917. The Solution to the Russian Revolution" and "The Elimination of Russia. Who helped the Reds win the Civil War?", I took the main thoughts from him, my only voice acting. All titles of Starikov's books can be found at http://nstarikov.ru/books/1549.
And I would like to know the results of the "high-level negotiations".

[zczczc]

ballian, and what to us to the USA, I did not understand? Did we really need their recognition?

[SMERSH]

So that you BURN IN HELL!

[rumpeljschtizhen]

everyone fought with me, for a long time to comb, yes ka and for all of you, for that ..... with .... one ... one answer .. would they .....

[- = 999 = -]

That’s why the American government loves this because of their love of the world and how they bring this love to others and how they make others love it. In general, let Obama receive the Nobel’s for kindness and humanity next year.

[datur]

first fucking mccain is now an ambassador to estonia - how these great leaders of the world shit democracy hesitated. and our licking them. !!!!

[raf]

Blah, maybe even now our leaders will see who they are "rebooting" with? Although I think they already know, they are just afraid to raise their heads!

[raf]

What all the same Pindos are hypocrites! They smile in the face, talk about rebooting and then give it out! And not everything is clean with the "reset" button. I’ll explain to those who don’t know: Clinton brought a big red button to the negotiations with the inscription "overload", then pretended that it was written by mistake, in the place of the inscription "reboot"! I will never believe that in the White House there was no translator who knew Russian well! So I guess it was done on purpose! Clinton smiled and kept a fig in her pocket!

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Lord! What's so surprising? The United States always supports and strokes everyone who barks against Russia. This is their policy. As for our rulers ... I think everything is well paid for, otherwise where did such rumbles at McCain's performance come from? Lavrov could not adequately answer? MOG !! The smartest and most experienced man. Apparently, the undersized said, like "don't make America angry." And it all ended with another chewing snot performed by the Russian Foreign Ministry. And now it will be, apparently, the same. For there to be a decent response to such statements and publications, people like Brezhnev (in his prime) and Kosygin must be at the helm. Not bought by the dollar, without real estate in England and Switzerland, and the like. In their times (no matter what stagnation there was, nafig, lived, I know) no one would have dared to blather. I just keep quiet about the Khrushchev times, Nikita Sergeich could have fired a racket at once ...

Everything stems from one thing: complete impotence of power in the Russian Federation ...

[Gur]

And our Khalui swallowed it ????? ... well then you have to pour literally to Estonia .. and ask for forgiveness .. and again repent .. pay compensation .. soap the ass and wait for another kick ... BITCHES !!

[Genius]

But what losses did the USSR suffer from this war, how many people and blood did this alert anyone ?! And since they say so about dividing Europe into 2 parts (end of paragraph 1), why doesn’t anyone remember the Berlin Wall or the Warsaw Treaty and NATO ?!

[Gur]

And yet ... in response to this, the Taliban must be provided with our anti-tank missiles and arrows, as well as the colonel to send a container with this miracle weapon .. and let the pancake wash ... bastards ..

[hellbringer]

McCain clearly indicated that Russia is next. You just have to think with your head, and yes proceed from the capabilities of our enemies. And the goals and desires - they are clearly understood.

[Captain]

Germany and the Soviet Union put Europe and the whole world on the path of imminent war

Munich Agreement? The occupation of Czechoslovakia? No, have you heard?

[figwam]

Another lie should be taken, like all US politics.

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Quote: Captain

Munich Agreement? The occupation of Czechoslovakia? No, have you heard?

Yes exactly! In Munich, it was Germany and the USSR that used to derbanit the Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia and so on. And Chamberlain - as I understand it, was Macetov's Euros-name, right?

As my deceased grandmother used to say, "you even piss in the eyes of such a person, everything is God's dew!" This is truly so.

[PSih2097]

And why then England and France will not take on some of the responsibility?
In theory, World War II begins on March 2, 7, when German troops occupied the Rhine demilitarized zone. Great Britain and France do not show any real resistance to this, confining themselves to a formal protest, although even then they could break the Germans to the fullest.
That's because of their political impotence and the desire to send the Germans east to fight the red plague, it began. Hitler then just felt like a hot pepper, which no one decree.

[makrus]

here is a similar material http://topwar.ru/566-kto-vinovat-v-nachale-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojny.html

[ZEBRASH]

Yes, before the Soviet government always had a tough answer to such statements. And for the common people there was an iron curtain - and it was all cool ... that there pendosnya with its puppies yapping. Now it’s the other way round - to the government of FSUs ... that there Americans are running into us, only ordinary citizens of Russia are indignant, but they are NOBODY in this world.

[panzersoldat]

Now you understand what’s happening, at the beginning the Yankees forced us to sell our country for holey jeans, then they began to slowly take over the world, now they are trying to push the former Soviet peoples with their foreheads and push Russia into the abyss, on the edge of which it stopped at 91 and slowly mix us with manure. But THAT they cannot forgive. This is a matter of honor.
"Get up, the country is huge ..."

[Patriot]

panzersoldat
No one will get up. Until why, the time has not come. YES and no reason. The Russian bear man is doing well so far. He sleeps in a den while the country is being ravaged and plundered. By the way, Hurray Comrades.
You heard the Queen of Denmark is coming to us. Look carefully for the news, otherwise it may be our prezik-dima and she will give her some of our territories that our ancestors so valiantly and zealously joined! As was the case with the king of Norway last year.
AND YOU DAD SPEAK UP!

[panzersoldat]

Really said out of place. We will degrade tahoe as a nation and as a country.

[Patriot]

RUSSIAN PEOPLE. But didn’t you get tired of watching everything?