Military Review

Again about money and central banks. Part of 1

86
No matter how complicated the situation in the world is, the determining mechanisms are always the same - money and geopolitics resulting from them. It is hard to believe that the USA is so preoccupied with the situation in Ukraine that they are ready to enter into a third world war in the name of democracy and freedom. A sharp drop in the educational level in the Anglo-Saxon world leads to a reduction in the intellectual base of this civilization, and if you could admire the endless multi-pass algorithm of US foreign policy, then today, with all assurances, it all looks very confused and immoral. Mayat with the dollar and an attempt to preserve the possibility of parasitism due to emissions leads to the fact that the world has plunged into the economy of debt, which requires a literal transition to a different reality. Prior to the early seventies, the United States managed to be odd with its own gold reserve, which served as a security pledge. But in the end, the limited gold reserves of the United States demanded to change the situation, and the dollar was untied from gold (the famous "Nixon Shock"). It was necessary to find a replacement for the dollar, which had already become similar to a fake piece of paper, and such collateral was found — oil for dollars.

But these are all known facts, the essence of the debt economy itself is much less frequently analyzed, and in the meantime it is a wonderful miracle, for it lacks any sensible sense and looks like a single fraudulent scheme. However, for a decent amount of time, she successfully works and tries to continue her work. Any money in the modern economy arises as a debt, and is realized through credit schemes. Loans themselves are initially money from the air, because they arise as a multi-effect effect from a deposit multiplied by a turnover. In fact, this is fake money, which, nevertheless, is completely legal. A person who transfers real money to a bank receives a bank receipt in return, which in itself is only a issued bank obligation, but no longer money. The urgent attempt of the financial lobby to persuade the government to switch exclusively to cashless payments, the essence of the transition to money substitutes, this will allow to build even more sophisticated schemes of cheating on money. Under the deposit, the bank issues a certain number of credits minus the reserve requirement. The number of loans, therefore, exceeds the amount of the deposit several times. But this is not all, the loan is burdened with interest on the loan, which forms an unsolvable mathematical relationship, because in a closed financial system (and the world financial system is closed) there is simply no money to pay off interest.

Thus, there is always more debt capital than real capital, which means that in order to balance itself the system must be in constant dynamic expansion, and for this it is necessary that the markets constantly grow. But there is nothing permanent in the world, the more constantly growing artificial markets, the system will fail. And this failure will turn around a constant increase in debt. And since material means serve as security for debt, they will gradually flow into the hands of those who have invented such a cunning plan. The US treaty with OPEC countries, and above all with Saudi Arabia, on switching to paying oil for dollars, allowed America to lift restrictions on issuing its private money, and the Anglo-Saxon world got incredible opportunities to exploit the whole world. The dollar has acquired the ability to export goods with 100% liquidity exchange for any product. But today, this scheme has reached its practical limit of efficiency, like a jammed motor, which is buzzing but no longer sets the system in motion. However, the world is used to this order of things. The world is sick of money out of thin air, and wants to be cut off by this garbage before mortal convulsions, and therefore no sensible argument can yet make a difference. The system should collapse naturally.

Again about money and central banks. Part of 1


It is curious to observe how the West went bankrupt, who was drowned in debt before the complete loss of visual contact, behaves as if the 60s are still outside the window, and they are the gods of the universe. They impose sanctions, as if trying to shoot their leg, pushing on the endless emission of money on trust, which remained the only means of supporting them in a half-alive state. If we analyze the real GDP growth and subtract the growth of debt obligations from it, then we see a very bleak picture, for example, the reduction of Eurozone GDP for the period from 2009 to 2013 amounted to more than 25% (by some estimates far beyond 30%). It is not even a recession, it is a collapse. But, you look at the faces of officials from the European Union, do they look like concerned people? They discuss anti-Russian sanctions with some kind of diabolical tenderness when there is complete economic ruin in their own home. All this is only evidence that the elite is divorced from their own states, it doesn’t care what happens in their areas of responsibility, if only they don’t fail a financial stream from which they are fed. Now look at Russia (Graph 1).

Obviously, the state of the Russian economy is simply incomparable, and this, for all the stupidity of government economic policy. If we take into account that our statistics do not reflect the entire economy, many of which remain in the shadows, the ratio will grow even more. But does this give reason for an idle pastime? No and no again. The situation with debts in the United States looks quite disastrous. But America is a country with other possibilities, and it milks the entire global system, and therefore can afford any debts. Being a reserve currency issuer, this country can draw any budget figures for itself. But everyone knows about this for a long time, they just do not know how to get steady growth in a completely incapable system for development. In other words, the "magic of the printer" has reached its limit and does not create anything but problems. What can be the solution in this situation? Sharp reformatting and restructuring of world markets. In other words, a complete redistribution of capital flows and the delineation of closed zones, access to which will be sharply limited. What risks threaten Russia? All our economic policies are still built on the integration of raw materials into the global market. Our budget is formed as the sum of revenues from resource exports, not only oil and gas, which, of course, make up a large part of it (44,1%), but also from the mass of other raw materials (3,26%). Non-resource budget revenues in the current period are 52,64%. If we deduct from customs revenues from customs duties, most of which are import and export duties on raw materials, the domestic market budget will be only 43,74%.



Thus, the revenues of the Russian budget from the export of raw materials and duties in the current period are 56,26%. For comparison, in the late USSR (1990 d) the budget depended on the external market only on 15,9%, and even less during the stagnation period (http://refru.ru/budgets.pdf). So what happens if we are cut off from export earnings, at least by half? We will live in Africa. The number of beggars will increase to 80%. Joyless perspective. And what is our choice? Actually small: either fall down and ask for the “big brother” attendants, or return to a planned economy and a self-sufficient economy. Both that and other choice problem. The first one is problematic, because they will not offer much, and we will remain a raw materials appendage with a poor population. The second requires the nationalization of the Central Bank and the complete demolition of the elite, which is very difficult to do in the present conditions. Of course, there is a third choice: quietly, without attracting attention, rebuild the industry and reform the financial system, pump muscles and call for friendship for all. What, in principle, is happening now. But this choice will never lead to a radical improvement in the situation, and we will continue to flounder between “very bad” and “just bad”, now dropping down, then raising a little. Therefore, we are forced to move towards the return of a planned balanced economy.

Our government will never announce it out loud, but you see what happens on television, there are solid films from the Soviet past. Why are there so many of them? To recover memory. The economy of the USSR, especially in the period of pre-war mobilization and the late period, called stagnant, was not just effective, but the most efficient in the world. Tasks solved with its help are impossible to accomplish in modern Russia. Such a targeted concentration of industrial and infrastructural efforts under capitalist relations is impossible. The level of social security cannot be compared with the current level of protection of the population.

The current situation, due to the crisis in Ukraine, gives us a unique chance. Without causing excessive annoyance from the “Big Brother”, but ostensibly only as a reaction to sanctions, to completely modernize the economic basis, and with it the entire social structure of the state. Return order and stability to the country, get away from total raw material and product dependence on foreign markets, create a social model that could comfortably pass the transition to the sixth technological order, create a defense complex that did not leave even chances for a minimal military conflict concept of budget deficit. With regard to financial policy and inefficient securities, there is a simple solution to this problem. Create a two-contour financial model. That is, to create, as it was in the USSR, two contours of the turnover of financial resources. Internal on the basis of state treasury notes, which will be issued by the state treasury, and external, in which money of the Central Bank is exchanged for foreign exchange resources without restrictions. Systems will exist in parallel. In essence, the money of the Central Bank will be pseudo money, as it is today, and state money will become the basis for financing its own economy. Of course, for the transition to such a system, it will be very important to carry out the necessary reforms, and first of all, to close, as Glazyev suggests, illegal capital outflows and to reduce import dependence by several times. But in general, we will get rid of the disastrous policy of the “Currency Committee” and the economy will receive cheap and long money.

At one time, when the world was actively transitioning to the gold standard, Mexico found itself aloof from these processes (they say its government was simply not up to date). Suddenly, its economy jumped by 7%, and the country began to grow rapidly. The best "friends" immediately pointed out to Mexico the "important" financial processes taking place in the world. And a year later, its economy slipped into recession, and then into a crisis, from which it still does not get out. Sometimes it is very useful not to know something.


To be continued ...
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Originator:
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Samurai3X
    Samurai3X 1 December 2014 05: 38
    -33
    Hmm ... I would say about the efficiency of the economy of the USSR, but it is better to just keep silent ...
    Economically, the USSR collapsed because oil prices fell in 1980-1983. In the 60s, the country's leadership realized that it would not be able to improve the living conditions of a citizen without trading outside. We could not make a closed system that supported itself. So they decided to sell gas and oil to the West and to other countries, because they did not buy other products. When prices fell, the surplus went away and a deficit appeared. The products left the shelves, social programs were cut off somehow, although they were trumpeted in all the newspapers. Those candy wrappers that meant little in the USSR (rubles) could print and distribute to the population even in tons, but the people cut through the chip and quickly began to develop summer cottages, because hunger loomed on the horizon. This all hints at the "efficiency" of the economy, which collapsed due to oil prices.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CD%E5%F4%F2%FC#mediaviewer/File:Top_Oil_Producing
    _Counties.png

    Analytics based on the fact that old films show ... Just a masterpiece!
    The author did not think that maybe this is because modern good films are few and nothing to twist? Or maybe just because they were always shown?
    1. Finches
      Finches 1 December 2014 05: 50
      +25
      Alexander, this is a moot point! In a planned economy, in the conditions of total economic and political aggression of the West, there are much more advantages for the country and people! And if we recall the USSR, we will not forget that the state, among other things, bore a huge social burden for all the inhabitants of a huge country: free and, I note a very good education, free medicine, free housing, for the most part, maximum employment - there was no unemployment ...! It is possible to enumerate for a long time and in detail, but I just wanted to emphasize that I would not categorically declare the inefficiency of the USSR economy.
      1. Samurai3X
        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 06: 05
        -10
        Well, let's say there was no unemployment, because without work, the population would have died. I have a grandmother from my father's side, who worked for 40 years on a collective farm in the Urals (Uzhgorod) and received a pension of 10 rubles. All old people there received such a pension. It wasn't drunk or anything. It was a real pension. Fortunately, relatives always helped, because without them the old people would have been bent. In those days, even the joke appeared "Retire only feet first!"
        The fact that everything listed is free is the greatest achievement of the USSR. But apart from housing, as it is not in your possession in fact. This always bothered both my grandfather and father.
        It’s just that in the article the economy of the USSR is elevated, which was ruled, as if the state was a private corporation. And this does not happen ... More precisely, it happens, but we see a clear example of the United States.
        Just a funny coincidence. At the peak of its power both militarily and economically (1978-1985), the USSR sold more oil than any other country in the world. Due to this, he covered the "holes" in the economy. But when the brook was masterly blocked, the leadership could not rebuild. Failed to shift the economy to other tracks.
        You can say anything about the current economy and the management of this economy in our country, but when in 2008 oil simply failed, the country withstood it. Products did not disappear, people did not run away to cultivate gardens. This is already talking about something. And there was a dudger with Georgia. I remember that time perfectly. I remember how friends whose business with some Western offices told us what panic was in the West, while we (conditionally) drank fruit drinks.
        Putin is already trying to turn Russia towards BRICSbecause he believes that this is the future. In this regard, I fully understand him and approve of such actions.
        Our countries have a future real economic sector. Shadow and fictitious let them saw in the west.
        If Putin can make an economically integrated alliance of the BRICS countries by 2020-25, then this will be a victory. Moreover, the victory over what destroyed the USSR. Of course, one must keep an eye on China, but this is a way out of the abyss where the United States is pulling everyone.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 1 December 2014 07: 01
          +16
          Quote: Samurai3X
          Well, let’s say there was no unemployment, because without work the population would be bent.
          Are you serious? Yes, on the contrary, one could even live quite well without working. The article for parasitism, precisely, deprived of such a freebie. If you "work creatively", for example, getting a job as a janitor, and making combinations for yourself, for your wife and mother-in-law, then having a lot of free time, you could get substantial money for those times, up to 300 rubles a month. My grandfather, having worked all his life on the ships of the river fleet, had a pension of 60 rubles, like most pensioners (there was even more), half of it was enough for him to live, and, for some reason, I did not see in Soviet times that the old people rummaged through the garbage dumps and stood with an outstretched hand at the shops. No real estate? Well, of course! My parents had their own private house, and my relatives had a cooperative apartment. Would we be lost without the West? If it were not for fools and traitors, the Soviet Union was a self-sufficient country, it would not have disappeared. It's another matter when fools climb into the economy, and where rye grew beautifully, they began, in different order, to sow wheat or corn. When vineyards were cut down under the "fight against drunkenness" or took "perestroika" and "acceleration", figuratively speaking, running with an empty wheelbarrow, because because of this, they did not have time to impose "acceleration" on it. The dollar has long become a gambling feature in Western casinos, and all their "economic science" is, first of all, the rules of the game, which are written in favor of CASINO. Of course, we can create our own "casino" in parallel, but only socialism can return Russia to the status of a superpower, make real industrialization, build a free and just society.
          1. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 25
            -5
            A self-sufficient country that could not feed itself? Bush's legs, built gardens (who had one) and empty counters hinted nothing at the time?
            I did not say that we would have disappeared without the West. But the USSR itself sat on the needle, because no other way to increase the standard of living and the prosperity of the population did not see. Yes, and there was none. I do not blame for sitting tight on the needle. Indeed, due to this, a lot of things were raised and this is the most important thing.
            They could not get off.
            1. atalef
              atalef 1 December 2014 08: 34
              -4
              Quote: Samurai3X
              A self-sufficient country that could not feed itself?

              Yes, they probably forgot that if the enemy in the person of the USA and Canada did not sell the USSR at 100 million tons of grain per year (feed), then a self-sufficient country, not seeing meat (which was grown on this grain (cree feed)) - - I couldn’t even eat rice with chopsticks (as in China) - because the rice had the same problems.
              But in general, what in stores (with the exception of pasta, margarine, canned goods, milk and bread, and alcohol) was constantly and abundant?
              Tell me, who lived from 1977 to 1980 in Kalinin (Tver Oblast)
              And if it weren’t for the trains to Moscow, there would have been simply and frankly nothing to eat.
              1. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 1 December 2014 09: 07
                -3
                It was easier for me. I lived in the MSSR, that is, Moldova. Everything was just fine there, even in times of late scarcity. Wine, fresh butter, milk, cottage cheese, vegetables, fruits and grapes. There was always bread, fields with wheat gathered, etc.
                Relatives near Tula have not seen vegetables for months. In the Urals, people switched from pasta to potatoes and vice versa. Meat on holidays.
                But in the Altai Territory in those days, local hunters knocked out most of the game, because the state simply did not provide food. I am already silent about water, electricity and gas.
                1. Pervusha Isaev
                  Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 09: 40
                  +7
                  Quote: Samurai3X
                  Relatives near Tula have not seen vegetables for months. In the Urals, people switched from pasta to potatoes and vice versa. Meat on holidays.


                  why are you driving? Why weren't there potatoes or carrots or cabbage or onions, garlic? what vegetables "weren't there" near Tula? you're lying ...
                  and the meat was in the market EVERYTHING WAS ...
                  1. Samurai3X
                    Samurai3X 1 December 2014 09: 52
                    +2
                    I have relatives near Tula, in the Urals, near Odessa, in Sevastopol and St. Petersburg. There is a very distant one in Altai and Vladivostok.
                    So to speak first-hand information.
                    I hope the template "how great was everything with the union" did not quite break?
                    what are you chasing?

                    Is this the only argument?
                    1. korvin1976
                      korvin1976 1 December 2014 13: 55
                      +10
                      First-hand information is when he cooked himself in such a mess.
                      I have been living near Tula since 1976. And believe me, and vegetables and fruits were. Yes, bananas and pineapples were from Moscow. But everyone else, our locals, had no problem. I agree potatoes. cabbage and others had to be harvested in the fall, because by the spring there was just a "fireball" in stores. But what would I say that nothing happened, this is complete nonsense.
                      Bread was always abundant, the fish of two three species (pollock, hake, sprat) is the same. Chicken (blue of course), but it was the same. Dairy products relative abundance: bottled: milk, kefir, cream, draft: milk and sour cream. At the expense of sausage and other things, I can’t say, but on the counter it was always 3-4. (boiled, liver, etc.)
                      I'm talking about the times until about 88, and not after, when the devastation went.
                      So do not talk about what was not.
                      There were not many stores, but at that time the state believed that all this was, so to speak, products of minimal survival. And accordingly, did not produce 100500 types of sausages as it is now. Although now in fact there are the same number, the difference is in the manufacturer and small additions to the composition. a la new variety.
                      In Moscow, they darted for groceries, because there were more of them, both by choice and by quantity, but for that it was the capital.
                      Now, in fact, the choice in stores has become hundreds of times larger, but the problem remains as before: there’s nothing to buy. The sausage as before laughed was made of toilet paper, and now, only with the addition: now it is made of used toilet paper.
                      I personally think that now we live much better than before, but at the same time I am not saying that we lived very poorly before.
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 1 December 2014 14: 01
                        0
                        Quote: korvin1976
                        Bread was always abundant, the fish of two three species (pollock, hake, sprat) is the same. Chicken (blue of course), but it was the same. Dairy products relative abundance: bottled: milk, kefir, cream, draft: milk and sour cream. At the expense of sausage and other things, I can’t say, but on the counter it was always 3-4. (boiled, liver, etc.)

                        In fact, the answer to these stories (or one question) - are you ready to return to social. abundance.
                      2. Bakht
                        Bakht 1 December 2014 14: 43
                        +9
                        I'm ready. Because I saw it with my own eyes and like you traveled around the world. In any case, the circumnavigation as Magellan did. And like homeless people (not newcomers but natives) In Norway, they came to us for food too. And he lived in the States. In families from very wealthy to medium. I was not in beggars at all. I can compare.

                        People often confuse abundance on the shelves and abundance in the refrigerator. These are two big differences. But there was work, there was employment, and there was the biblical meaning of life - to earn one's daily bread.

                        What fears were absent in the USSR (according to W. Palme). Fear of being left without work, fear of being left without a roof over your head. Fear of poor old age. Fear of banditry. Give the person all these fears and you will get a sick person. Neurotic.

                        Have you ever seen how in the West a person is announced about his dismissal? Not in the movies, but in real life. I was shocked. This is a complete collapse. Units could adequately withstand the blow. Now tell me, could the director of the plant fire the worker? Although some were needed.
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 1 December 2014 14: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Bakht
                        Have you ever seen how in the West a person is announced about his dismissal? Not in the movies, but in real life. I was shocked. This is a complete collapse. Units could adequately withstand the blow. Now tell me, could the director of the plant fire the worker? Although some needed

                        But in general, does anyone jump when reporting a dismissal from happiness?
                        Of course it's hard.
                        Example, excuse me demagogic.
                        I can ask (because I myself have witnessed this in Russia). when my friend’s son was told - for the operation you need to pay 6 tb bucks. and then no one gives a guarantee. There is no quota on him.
                        What's up with that? Ask in Israel about the quota, they will not understand you (as in Europe it is the same), as with this?
                        By the way, about the dismissal - it has always been and will be
                        The philosophy of capitalism (civilized) is quite simple - healthy - take care of yourself, child, disabled person, old man - the state cares --- in my opinion this is honest.
                      4. Bakht
                        Bakht 1 December 2014 18: 38
                        +4
                        This is not a demagogic example, but a real comparison.

                        The director of a Soviet factory wants to fire a worker. If the worker has a personal stigma, then the director of the horn will quickly be put in place. In any other case, this is such a red tape that the director will hang himself earlier. But if he can, then the worker will cross the street and he will be immediately taken to a neighboring factory.

                        In the West, they first wait for a person to be at home, away from heavy objects. Then they call and report. My friend was fired at the highest level. On a special limousine in Houston they brought to the head office, They uttered a bunch of pleasant words and sent to rest. And in the next room there is a doctor with a resuscitation team. So, just in case.

                        About quotas, tell my friend American. He has insurance, you see, no. Or the medical insurance does not cover his case. And there are almost 50 million people like him in the States. Now go to the Soviet hospital (albeit bad and without repair) and the doctor will tell you that you do not have insurance. Or quotas. By the way, an example about a quota from Soviet reality or democratic?

                        The state cares .... Well, well. Therefore, is there a criticism of the medical program in America? Obama only on a pitchfork do not want to put.

                        Yes, I completely forgot. Could the Soviet Union evict the family on the street? Give it a try. I would like to see on which bunks the Chairman of the Executive Committee will be. Not just writing. The apartment was received through a complaint to the district committee. An order three days later brought in teeth.

                        These are all comparisons.
                      5. korvin1976
                        korvin1976 3 December 2014 08: 39
                        +1
                        I think one answer here:
                        I do not want to return to those times, but .....
                        Let us then analyze this question into its components.
                        I believe that now they began to live better than before, but this does not mean that before we lived very poorly, as many here are trying to prove.
                        At the moment I live better than before, but this does not mean that I do not want to live even better.
                        Many say that we live poorly now, and even worse than before, in this case I can say that this applies either to permanent pessimists or elementary lazy people.
                        Comparing life before and comparing life now is about the same as comparing the M-16 and AK-74, it seems to be the same thing, but essentially different things.
                        I think I answered your question
                2. Mviktor
                  Mviktor 1 December 2014 10: 08
                  +6
                  Therefore, the Communists destroyed the USSR, instead of caring for their own people, fed and maintained half the world and overstrained themselves. There is no rich state with poor people. It was necessary to develop small business primarily in agriculture and related sectors of agricultural processing and light engineering. I well remember how they even fought with glass greenhouses, this was called unearned income. And so the idea of ​​a strong state was correct
                  1. Tribuns
                    Tribuns 1 December 2014 22: 58
                    0
                    The USSR practically helped with finances, equipment and personnel to all countries on different continents, as soon as they announced a socialist orientation ... More than 300 thousand people from all over the world studied in the USSR for free ... A significant part of the expenses was assistance to the countries of the socialist camp, about Vietnam and Cuba has a special conversation ... And the last thing - the USSR joined the unimaginable arms race with NATO and the USA, peering at the imaginary threat of the development of the United States SDI (strategic defense initiative) in space ... If you discard at least some of these absurd costs, then you can really talk about the effectiveness of the Soviet economy!
              2. saber
                saber 1 December 2014 09: 16
                +6
                and I still live in the Nizhny Novgorod region - there used to be farms, kalds, herds everywhere, but now nothing, but there is meat ... how to explain this?
              3. Userpic
                Userpic 1 December 2014 13: 03
                +5
                Quote: atalef
                Yes, they probably forgot that if the enemy in the person of the USA and Canada did not sell the USSR at 100 million tons of grain per year (feed), then a self-sufficient country, not seeing meat (which was grown on this grain (cree feed)) - - I couldn’t even eat rice with chopsticks (as in China) - because the rice had the same problems.
                http://burckina-faso.livejournal.com/720845.html
                1990/2000/2011
                Grain production, thousand tons - 116 / 700 / 65
                Potato production, thousand tons - 30 800/29 500/32 700
                Milk production, thousand tons - 55 715/32 259/31 646
                Vegetable production, thousand tons - 10 / 300 / 10
                Egg production, mln.pcs - 47 470/34 085/41 113
                Meat production, thousand tons - 10 112/4 446/7 520
                Population, mln. - 148 / 146,6 / 143
                Food security - 183% / 108% / 150%

                Source of information "Analysis of the state of provision of basic food products of own production of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation for 1990, 2000 and 2011" Author: E.I. Komotskiy (Ural Federal University named after B.N. Yeltsin, Department of Business Informatics and Mathematical Modeling).

                http://burckina-faso.livejournal.com/811971.html


                http://zemfort1983.livejournal.com/469060.html


                http://burckina-faso.livejournal.com/683745.html


                http://burckina-faso.livejournal.com/548841.html

              4. The comment was deleted.
              5. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Per se.
              Per se. 1 December 2014 09: 47
              +3
              Quote: Samurai3X
              I did not say that we would have disappeared without the West
              And I did not say that everything was perfect. You say, "got on a needle," as if, in modern capitalist Russia, hydrocarbons are not a "needle". To the export "needle" was added the dependence on the imported "needle", even cucumbers and potatoes began to be bought over the hill, in fact, there is no longer its own machine-tool industry, and a lot of other things, brought to the handle. Thank you, the safety margin from the USSR, we still ride it, both modifying Soviet developments and ideas, and using Soviet space and the atom, using factories and factories created in Soviet times, Soviet achievements of science and its academic school. If Sasha Kerensky had remained in power after the February Revolution, had capitalism remained then - the Gaidars, Nemtsovs, Chubais and Yeltsins would have destroyed and merged Russia into the West by the beginning of the thirties, having fallen into complete economic and debt dependence. Bush's legs, you say? I already remembered about the corn from Khrushchev, and the "acceleration" from Gorbachev, if Andropov had stayed for 5 years at least, we would have had everything. I will answer along the way and atalef, no one would die of hunger, and rice from chopsticks would not lick. Yes, there were problems, but they could and should have been solved as socialism developed. In principle, mankind has no other choice but to have a planned economy, or there will be a sad alternative, with the theory of the "golden billion" and eternal "reboots" of the war, with the constantly hanging program of capitalism. If you hope to prosper in the Promised Land, then Israel will have to learn a lot from the planned economy.
              1. Victor Demchenko
                Victor Demchenko 1 December 2014 10: 15
                +1
                already apply, and previously applied. remember the kibbutzim, and much more.
              2. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 1 December 2014 12: 06
                -3
                Yes, yes ... margin of safety. Safety margin by 1996 already rusted, because everything stood. The next 4 years, everything fell apart completely.
                I do not know who periodically launches a duck on the topic of safety margin since the days of the USSR. Zyuga is most likely trying ... His party needs voters.
                Nevertheless, during the crisis (falling oil prices in 2008), the state survived.
                If it survives now, it means they could make economic fuses in this regard.
        2. 3vs
          3vs 1 December 2014 07: 05
          -15
          Samurai3X, you are wildly minus pioneers, hold on! fellow
          1. Finches
            Finches 1 December 2014 07: 27
            +4
            And also communists, Komsomol members, non-partisans and ... Shepilov who joined them! laughing
            But seriously, then sane people!
            1. 3vs
              3vs 1 December 2014 07: 39
              +2
              good
              If a person speaks the truth about his relatives,
              what was, what was, what the obvious deny!
              We must move forward, taking into account the mistakes of the past and the pros, of course!
          2. DRA-88
            DRA-88 1 December 2014 07: 32
            0
            Quote: 3vs
            Samurai3X, you are wildly minus pioneers, hold on!

            it's just seligerys still sleeping yes
          3. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 31
            -4
            Yes, do not care. Unlike many, not for the sake of rating, unlike reading and commenting x)
        3. Alexander I
          Alexander I 1 December 2014 07: 13
          +3
          Where did you find such a pension. Such a pension was only immediately after the revolution. But in 60g who worked the one and received a decent pension from 90 to 120 rubles. It was possible to live with such a pension and lay down on a supply. Now, at the moment, retirement is a miracle. Here it is, here it is already. A single pensioner cannot live on a pension. This is a miracle of the modern economy.
          1. atalef
            atalef 1 December 2014 08: 13
            -5
            Quote: Alexander I
            But in 60g who worked and received a decent pension from 90 to 120 rubles

            Well, in the 60s there was no such pension, and the collective farmers did not receive it at all, and they only received passports after Stalin's death.
            1. Samurai3X
              Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 40
              -2
              Grandma in 1962 got her own. Give the fastest bureaucracy in the world!
          2. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 38
            -2
            A naive person. Maybe he completely believed in the newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda"?
          3. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 1 December 2014 10: 21
            +3
            when I retired, I had 38 years of experience, the average salary was 32 thousand rubles. according to my calculations, taking into account ALL the promises of our government, they should pay me 50%, this is somewhere around 16000 ... but in real life there are 7500 or more nizzzz! so decided our beloved government. and to date, the accrual system has not changed. and the question arises, when will our hard workers themselves give up the "gray" salaries? What do you think? in my opinion, never, I will work better and put aside everything I can for a rainy day, because we have no trust in the state with its tricks! credit of trust is exhausted! am
            1. Samurai3X
              Samurai3X 1 December 2014 12: 10
              -3
              The credit of trust in the early 80s was exhausted. After the population, the communist capitalists didn’t care, if only they would not touch the gardens, because they want to eat.
        4. DRA-88
          DRA-88 1 December 2014 07: 42
          +6
          Quote: Samurai3X
          My grandmother from my father, who worked for 40 years on a collective farm in the Urals (Uzhgorod), received a pension of 10 rubles.

          The minimum pension in the USSR was 36 rubles!
          1. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 35
            -5
            Maybe somewhere in the State Statistics Committee and 36 rubles, but in fact in the Urals there were 10 rubles.
            And the passports to the peasants were finally issued only by 1964. It's charming, isn't it?
            Gosstat in general exists to brainwash and convince in something (for example, in the close achievement of true communism), and not to show the real picture. Behind real state statistics for 1981, our officials were guaranteed 10 years of endless execution. Do you think they would allow such information to leak into the masses?
            1. dummy
              dummy 1 December 2014 14: 44
              +5
              Samurai3X. Sorry for the indiscreet question - did your grandmother work or have she lived a dependent all her life? My grandmother hasn’t been working anywhere all my life. She kept household chores, which, however, is also not easy with a large family. I will not speak for the 60s, but in the 70s I already remember. She has a dependent state pension of 50 rubles. With a total salary of 100 rubles, this is not even bad. I will not say that my grandmother helped us city dwellers with a potato crop. And because for some reason everyone believes that there was a famine in the village, I won’t do a template break.
            2. DRA-88
              DRA-88 1 December 2014 20: 41
              +4
              Quote: Samurai3X
              For the real state statistics for 1981, our officials were guaranteed 10 years of endless execution. Do you think they would allow such information to leak into the masses?

              I have heard stories about grandmothers with retirement, 100 years in prison for 3 spikelets, bloody Stalin personally devouring people. You should write a script for Mikhalkov, but in general he himself will not remove such a talented one!
              You are given facts, FACTS !!!
              Are you with space obstinacy fool and with space stupidity you continue to convince adults, many people who made those times, to believe in a fairy tale about 10 rubles and 3 ears of wheat !!!
              It’s a pity to put your nonsense even minus.
              You look like a troll!
              1. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 2 December 2014 13: 56
                0
                I would call anyone here cosmic obstinacy and stupidity, but since recent times, the site is packed to capacity with personalities extremely limited in thinking. You say one thing - you’re talking about something else. Some kind of kindergarten ...
                Fact - my grandmother had a pension of 10 rubles. Some here also wrote about great pensions. What else does? Help or what? Photocopies of passbooks? Well, I’m sorry, I don’t drag them with me ...
                Where else did Stalin get out of? Can you talk about one thing at all?
                I say it again. The entire Goskomstat can be sent far and for a long time, because there the picture was not even close to reality. Well, if we were talking about Stalin ...
                Stalin I deeply respect and consider those who were needed at that time in the country. He made mistakes, he corrected these errors in the end. He chose the right course, due to which the country and people survived in the most brutal massacre in history.
          2. Babr
            Babr 1 December 2014 08: 37
            +1
            Quote: DRA-88
            Quote: Samurai3X
            My grandmother from my father, who worked for 40 years on a collective farm in the Urals (Uzhgorod), received a pension of 10 rubles.

            The minimum pension in the USSR was 36 rubles!

            You are a little out of touch. My grandmother received 8 rubles in the village. hi
            1. DRA-88
              DRA-88 1 December 2014 23: 03
              +1
              Quote: Babr
              You are a little out of touch. My grandmother received 8 rubles in the village.

              I will explain to you! The collective farmers, in addition to cash allowances, also received products from collective farms, seeds for planting on the personal farm were exempted from payments to the state, etc. etc. (if you translate into money, you get the same IT), i.e. collectively, the state cared for pensioners equally !!! hi
              1. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 2 December 2014 14: 03
                0
                I'm just sobbing from such arrogant lies crying
          3. lwxx
            lwxx 1 December 2014 09: 02
            +2
            Grandmother in Novokuznetsk 70-80gg received from 12 to 18 rubles, do not know do not write nonsense! I can write a lot about the union of the end of 70 and before the death, thanks to my parents I traveled to the union every year. We lived in Kamchatka and traveled from Leningrad to Tashkent on vacation.
            1. Babr
              Babr 1 December 2014 11: 17
              +2
              Quote: lwxx
              don't know don't write bullshit

              For what I bought, for that I am selling. Do not confuse the pensions of the city and the village of that period. My question is, why is there such a difference in pensions? Received the answer: But in the village there is a subsidiary farm. And the granny’s hands are rough, in cracks, from the ground.
              1. lwxx
                lwxx 1 December 2014 11: 30
                +2
                Before you say anything, you need to at least a little ask the question. I agree, it’s not possible to know everything, but still sometimes you can find out from people (or Google to help). Respectfully hi
                1. Babr
                  Babr 1 December 2014 11: 53
                  +1
                  Just what I said here is not from Google, but from life. Regards hi
          4. atalef
            atalef 1 December 2014 14: 03
            0
            Quote: DRA-88
            The minimum pension in the USSR was 36 rubles

            Vladlen, collective farmers (if she was a housewife) - received less
            1. Wheel
              Wheel 1 December 2014 17: 51
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              collective farmers (if she was a housewife) - received less

              Or more.
              The collective farm pension was paid by the collective farms themselves until they were 74 years old.
              Therefore, farmers had pensions and 8 rubles and 80.
            2. DRA-88
              DRA-88 1 December 2014 23: 06
              0
              Quote: atalef
              collective farmers (if she was a housewife) - received less

              Hello Sasha! I already left above koment!
              And the Wheel answered correctly! hi
        5. Pervusha Isaev
          Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 08: 07
          +9
          Quote: Samurai3X
          Just a funny coincidence. At the peak of its power both militarily and economically (1978-1985), the USSR sold more oil than any other country in the world. Due to this, he covered the "holes" in the economy. But when the brook was masterly blocked, the leadership could not rebuild. Failed to shift the economy to other tracks.


          I lived in the days of the Union and I don’t remember that there would be a lot of IMPORTED GOODS on the shelves of the union stores, just the imported goods were VERY LITTLE mainly our goods, so our light industry enterprises could not stop releasing because of the lack of a dollar in the economy clothes and shoes, and as for food, it was entirely ours ...
          Our country was BASICLY SELF-SUFFICIENT and did not depend on the dollar and oil, and the fact that it was like "depended" is a fairy tale that we were made to believe ...
          1. atalef
            atalef 1 December 2014 08: 18
            -7
            Quote: Pervusha Isaev
            Our country was BASICALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT

            I wonder who is lying to whom?
            Unfortunately, the bulk of the USSR goods was solid rubbish, but there was no other - and were content with it.
            In all respects, imported goods were an order of magnitude better, better, more beautiful - people can’t be fooled.
            Self-sufficient, funny, self-sufficient in relation to what was - was.
            There was no prosperity, there was no diversity; I am generally silent about abundance.
            One simple question? Can you compare with what is in stores now and then?
            I dare say, in the decaying west, what is now, was 40 years ago. and in the self-sufficient USSR for some reason, changes began only with the fall of the human regime itself.
            Explain why?
            1. Pervusha Isaev
              Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 08: 40
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              Unfortunately, the bulk of the USSR goods was solid rubbish, but there was no other - and were content with it.


              don't be afraid we won't touch it, no one is lying, we are not a synagogue, then that OUR goods did not meet the demand of the people, this can be recognized, but along with the goods of the USSR there were not very many, there were goods from the countries of "people's democracy", there were goods from Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, Hungary, the GDR and the quality of these boots, suits, jackets was already good, and so for these goods the payment was in RUBLES, and TRANSLATED, and our suits-shirts-shoes gradually became better in quality and if it were not for the restructuring of EVERYTHING would fall into place ...
              1. atalef
                atalef 1 December 2014 08: 50
                -4
                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                fear not touch

                ??

                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                there were goods from Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, Hungary, East Germany and the quality of these boots, suits, jackets was already good, so for these goods the calculation was in RUBLES, and TRANSLATED

                It is strange why the light of socialism and the self-sufficient country of the world itself could not produce this.
                Do you want to explain? Just all these Hungary. Czechoslovakia, Poland social. countries began only after 1945, the people still have not forgotten how to work for us, but the process went
                Compare the GDR and the Federal Republic of Germany (at least by level, even by development)
                But one people, only the systems were different.
                So still the eastern lands are backward, but compared to the USSR, the GDR was a role model in general.
                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                in RUBLES with TRANSFERS

                But at least in tugriks or in beaver skins - what role? If there was no nichrome in the shops.
                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                and our suits-shirts-shoes gradually became better in quality and if not for the restructuring, EVERYTHING would fall into place ...

                Yes, yes galoshes just walked leaps and bounds to the catwalks of Paris
                Do you yourself read what you write --- gradually became better --- this is for 70 years of socialism in general and 15 years in particular, declared by Brezhnev of the country of victorious developed socialism
                You don’t tell me fairy tales; I’ve lived enough in that country.
                1. Samurai3X
                  Samurai3X 1 December 2014 09: 28
                  -2
                  ??

                  By IP will calculate. And no Mossad will help! lol
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Pervusha Isaev
              Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 08: 55
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              I dare say, in the decaying west, what is now, was 40 years ago. and in the self-sufficient USSR for some reason, changes began only with the fall of the human regime itself.
              Explain why?


              the fact that people in the USSR were not paid attention, and paid to the proper extent, as required, lies in the very birth of the USSR.
              The Russian Empire was a backward country. Therefore, Stalin began to build the BASIS AND FOUNDATION of the economy of the HEAVY INDUSTRY, and all that was for the needs of man, the LIGHT INDUSTRY, was in second place.
              The country of the USSR always fought for EXISTENCE therefore STEEL, MACHINES, WEAPONS were needed and we were never given the opportunity to catch our breath after the military arms race, there was WAR, then the post-war arms race. The USSR could not take a breath and reorient the economy to human needs for this MAIN REASON for the poor quality of goods for people, there were other reasons Nikita made a bad decision, he introduced the EQUATION and violated the principle of SOCIAL JUSTICE and much more, but the most important thing is GORBACHEV'S TRADING , we needed another 20 years and the quality of the goods would have risen ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. atalef
                atalef 1 December 2014 09: 07
                -1
                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                USSR country has always fought for EXISTENCE

                Well then we can say that the West also fought for its existence

                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                and we were never given the opportunity to take a breath after the pre-military arms race

                Well, in general, the question is what and who was primary
                Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                The USSR could not take a breath and reorient the economy to human needs for this. MAIN REASON for not high quality goods for humans

                Strange, but in the US and the West, there was no arms race?
                How do you explain that it was only as Brezhnev took the path of detente, OSV -1, OSV-2 (despite the resistance of the military) that both the West and the United States immediately agreed to this?
                But it seems that they could have been suppressing initially?
                The USSR is responsible for the arms race, no less than NATO.
                And he created blocks and socialism pushed and supplied weapons.
                So that the guilt is at least equal, only for some reason in Europe devastated after the war, and with the arms race, they lived as something better than the USSR and much more.
                1. Pervusha Isaev
                  Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 09: 33
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  Well then we can say that the West also fought for its existence


                  but you don’t have to lie to the United States with your Canada NEVER fought for existence, that the United States was destroyed, like the USSR or the United States had as many enemies as our country? The United States was the richest country and robbed POLMIR and exported the gold of the Rothschilds and France, and the rest of the countries and all the post-war brains of the world, and we could only focus on ourselves and no one else. The USSR was destroyed, and the United States, England, France, Italy were almost untouched, as for Japan, they generally invested 50 years in weapons, only in civilian industry, so there was no need to drive ...
                  Quote: atalef
                  Strange, but in the US and the West, there was no arms race?


                  stop misleading THE LEVEL OF THE US ECONOMY WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, before the war, much higher than ours, therefore for the United States, this "race" is like an elephant's grain, but for us a question of life is death ...
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 1 December 2014 14: 17
                    -2
                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    but you don’t have to lie to the United States with your Canada NEVER fought for existence, that the United States was destroyed, like the USSR or the United States had as many enemies as our country

                    Well, it’s not necessary to gain a lot of enemies. Only besides Shyat there was no less poher Europe, Germany in particular.

                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    The United States was the richest country and robbed POLMIRA and exported to itself and the gold of the Rothschilds and France, and other countries and all the post-war brains of the world

                    Gold and brains were exported to the USSR (read how many SSR were exported to reparations and how many design bureaus in their entirety were exported to the USSR - Schmeiser is one of them)
                    Everyone drove. But the brains in the United States fled themselves
                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    The USSR was destroyed, and the United States, England, France, Italy were almost untouched

                    England Have you been to England? In London in particular? Do not smack nonsense
                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    , as for Japan, they generally invested 50 years in armaments -only in the civilian industry, so do not drive ...

                    Why not 500? By 1941, the USSR had more tanks (as an example, self-propelled guns and artillery systems) than the whole world combined + 8 million mobilized army + 18 million prepared reserve - and all the old songs are sung.
                    The USSR did not prepare for war, only everything around.
                    Read the US Armed Forces (as an example) for 1941.
                    Everything will fall into place.
                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    stop misleading US ECONOMY LEVEL was INITIAL, before the war, significantly higher than ours

                    Well ? It was not surprising to have a level of economy higher than in the USSR
                    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                    therefore, for the United States, this "race" is like a fraction of an elephant, but for us it is a matter of life and death ...

                    Well, right, how many wolves do not feed, but the elephant is thicker.
                    The USSR had to look for other ways, and not feed the floor of the world and keep the people in poverty.
                    Overcame. nothing surprising.
              3. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 1 December 2014 09: 20
                -9
                Cross out the machines. They were not made of the right quality in the USSR.
                Even the most modern armaments for 1983 were made on the Reich, which were repaired.
                The screws on the 3rd generation atomarines (to plow the oceans quieter than a nuclear explosion) were generally piece screws. Them MANUALLY they made spices on the machines, while in the decaying West they were turned out automatically on CNC machines based on the mathematical formulas of the surfaces.
                I will explain for tight. After all the research on US atomarines, the screws could be made in dozens (just cut the conveyor), and we were soaring over each.
                1. Pervusha Isaev
                  Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 09: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: Samurai3X
                  Cross out the machines. They were not made of the right quality in the USSR.


                  Well, again you're lying, what do you want to say that 30 thousand Soviet enterprises ALL worked on imported machines? why are you lying so impudently? and how many machine tools of the USSR did you look to no, many went for export for 74g, 225 thousand machine tools were produced and growth was constant, both in quantity and quality ...
                  http://www.novator-grp.ru/rus/stanki-ussr/
                  http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/135563/Станкостроение
                  1. Samurai3X
                    Samurai3X 1 December 2014 10: 08
                    -4
                    I tell you how it was in fact. For the non-military products, they made almost the entire spectrum: revolving, milling, grinding, etc. But when it was necessary to withstand non-fake tolerances, our machines passed.
                    Su-27 in factories near Novosibirsk (the same named after Chkalov) was made on German modified machines. This was told to me by my grandfather, who worked in this area (he was a machine tool technologist who, as a specialist, was invited to familiarize himself with samples of a decaying west).
                    Then, in the 80s, with all kinds of alliances, they tried to buy Japanese and American machine tools with varying success through lime offices.
                    1. Pervusha Isaev
                      Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 10: 31
                      +4
                      Quote: Samurai3X
                      I tell you how it was in fact. For the non-military products, they made almost the entire spectrum: revolving, milling, grinding, etc. But when it was necessary to withstand non-fake tolerances, our machines passed.


                      in order to say such nonsense, one should at least somehow be familiar with machine tools a little
                      probably 90-95% of the entire spectrum of the world machine tool industry was made in the USSR, and you don’t have to talk too much about the ACCURACY of PROCESSING, and if you didn’t do it, what kind of machines for the very specific tasks that the arms race constantly threw at us, say a multi-axis boring-grinding for submarine blades it didn’t affect the economy at all in any way, and as for German machine tools, you can still remember the pre-war American ones, if you had to, they could be completely replaced by ours and did not change, because they worked further, the USSR was not rich ...
                      and in general, ours did such machines already in the 80s that NO ONE WORLD WAS making this ROTOR-CONVEYOR LINES acad. Koshkina, why the Soviet Union tried to quickly cover up

                      http://www.ekoslovar.ru/359.html
                      1. Samurai3X
                        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 10: 48
                        -3
                        Is everything okay with your head? Or read only the nickname and picture?
                        In the USSR, CNC machines appeared only in 1987-88. While the first American appeared in 1952.
                        Is the hint clear? Or do I still need to chew?
                        Koshkin's rotor and conveyor lines are excellent, but the machines themselves did not get any better. The Americans simply revered this work and introduced these lines in 1991 and that’s all.
                        Because in addition to the fact that by the year 91 they had excellent machines, the experience of Koshkin was also added.
                      2. Pervusha Isaev
                        Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 10: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        Is everything okay with your head? Or read only the nickname and picture?


                        unlike you, "I remember here, I don't remember here" everything is fine, what's wrong?
                      3. Pervusha Isaev
                        Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 11: 09
                        +2
                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        In the USSR, CNC machines appeared only in 1987-88.


                        a link to the studio, how machines with numerical software could appear in 52 if the transition to digital signal processing and the more so machine control, stepper motors are needed, which appeared late probably already in the 70s, when the first computers appeared, on which media were recorded programs for machine tools? on punch cards? do not tell, show the link ...
                      4. Samurai3X
                        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 12: 17
                        -4
                        Links not links there is a book
                        Forces of Production: A Social History of Industrial Automation
                        Posted by David F. Noble.
                        Google and download. There may be a translation somewhere.
                        The first CNC machine was made at MIT in 1952. But it was very different from modern ones in concept, but the fact is that he was with the Americans already in 1952.
                        Modern is the development of the ideas of 1961 and 62.
                      5. Pervusha Isaev
                        Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 12: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        Links not links there is a book


                        we are not talking about this, not about the concept of the machine, but about the economy, Zvorykin did the first telly in the 20s, what will we say that Russians are smarter than everyone else?
                        you said that the Russians didn’t make good machines, but you yourself referred to some kind of fabulous machine,
                        the first videotape recorder made by the way under the direction of the Russian émigré Ponyatoy weighed 600kg, but this does not mean that it was a tape recorder for the market, your example with a machine tool is not a successful throwing of a left desa defaming the USSR a samurai under the red flag ...
                      6. Samurai3X
                        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 17: 09
                        -3
                        Is this such a subtle departure from the topic? Although more like a stream of obscure consciousness. Are we talking about machines or what were we talking about?
                        They asked for evidence of the existence of a CNC machine in 1952. Here is a book, there is a history of creation, and commissioning and completion are described. In general, the development of this industry in the USA until 1986. It is written accessible, although there are many technical terms.
                        And now there are televisions, and even more so the developments of some emigrant?
                        First, in Russian, they would learn to correctly write and structure the text. And then you can talk about stuffing, etc. Or if born in the USSR, then this should mean a crystal clear and empty consciousness into which you can shove everything that someone wants?
                      7. Pervusha Isaev
                        Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 17: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        Are we talking about machines or what were we talking about?
                        They asked for evidence of the existence of a CNC machine in 1952. Here is a book, there is a history of creation, and commissioning and completion are described. In general, the development of this industry in the USA until 1986. It is written accessible, although there are many technical terms.


                        doesn’t follow your link this time, does your second book appear in Amersky? but this is a Russian site, so let's get your docks in Russian, otherwise it’s not good.

                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        And now there are televisions, and even more so the developments of some emigrant?


                        and what we already do not see parallels? well done, here’s a book for you that doesn’t swing, read, look for evidence yourself, sort it out yourself, in short it’s enough to drive already, your insulting and unreasonable speeches against the USSR Samurai with a red flag says only one thing, that your words are not worth a lot and you're lying through word, like this ...

                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        First, in Russian, they would learn to correctly write and structure the text.

                        Oh, did you have to strain? such problems ...

                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        Or if born in the USSR, then this should mean a crystal clear and empty consciousness into which you can shove everything that someone wants?


                        this means that talkers like you who drive desu have no place among our people ...
                      8. Samurai3X
                        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 17: 36
                        -2
                        Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                        this means that talkers like you who drive desu have no place among our people ...

                        I don’t feel like being among your people ... it’s becoming scary for your moral health. I’d better just stay among people.

                        http://www.torrenthound.com/hash/f8f573bb0483400a0ae814f5567a0b0fbf872d25/torren
                        t-info / Forces-of-Production: -A-Social-History-of-Industrial-Automation

                        Here is the book on this link. For particularly tight ones there is a downloadtorrent below, so as not to be confused with such a cross in the upper right corner.
                        Unfortunately, such books were considered harmful, because spoiled the immaculate image of how great and most powerful our industry was in all directions. Not translated so far. But for any anti-scientific useless x * raccoon - this is welcome.
                      9. Wheel
                        Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Pervusha Isaev
                        how could machines with numerical software appear in 52 if the transition to digital signal processing and the more so machine control is necessary, stepper motors are needed, which appeared late probably already in the 70s, when the first computers appeared, on which media programs for the machines were recorded ? on punch cards? do not tell, show the link ...

                        Until the 70s, the analog representation of numbers was used, and according to AVM, the USSR was ahead of the rest.
                        Our cosmos has completely switched from analog to digital already in this century.
                      10. Wheel
                        Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Samurai3X
                        Is everything okay with your head? Or read only the nickname and picture? In the USSR, CNC machines appeared only in 1987-88. While the first American appeared in 1952. Is the hint clear? Or do I still need to chew?

                        Is it nothing that I started working in the 71st on a CNC machine of the 68th year of release?
                        And, yes, for some reason, a large encyclopedic polytechnical dictionary lies that the first CNC machine systems were developed in the USSR in 1948 - 50. And from the late 50s, Soviet CNC machines were already delivered to the west. hi
                    2. Wheel
                      Wheel 2 December 2014 02: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: Samurai3X
                      I tell you how it was in fact. For the non-military products, they made almost the entire spectrum: revolving, milling, grinding, etc. But when it was necessary to withstand non-rigging tolerances, our machines were passive. Su-27s were made at German modified machines at plants near Novosibirsk (the same named after Chkalov). This was told to me by my grandfather, who worked in this area (he was a machine tool technologist, who was invited as a specialist to familiarize himself with samples of a decaying west) .Then in the 80s, by all means, they tried to buy Japanese and American machine tools with all possible means through lime offices, with varying degrees of success.

                      What you wrote is nonsense!
                      I conducted technological support for several products, in addition, launched two new plants.
                      For this reason, I was familiar with the capabilities of the Soviet machine tool industry and with the state of affairs in a couple of hundreds of existing enterprises.
                      I’ll tell you a terrible secret: in 95% of cases, the presence of imported equipment in the technological chain was caused by the ambitions of plant managers or the ambitions of developers (almost exclusively Muscovites).
                      An even more terrible secret is that the accuracy threshold of machine tools was reached as far back as the 40s and 50s.
                      And the whole trouble of Soviet industry was the weakness of instrumental production. High-precision software machines require a high-precision, and most often precision, tool, the release of which in the USSR was insignificant and went exclusively to the aviation and space industry.
            3. kuz363
              kuz363 1 December 2014 12: 18
              +2
              Well, yes, at that time they were chasing after imported things. Amazed Japanese nylon shirts that did not need to be ironed! They scolded their cotton shirts, which crumpled, it was necessary to iron. The truth later came to the conclusion that nylon is hot in summer and cold in winter. Charged with static electricity. The body does not breathe. But now it’s the opposite.
            4. Aleksander
              Aleksander 1 December 2014 14: 19
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              the bulk of the USSR goods was solid rubbish,


              Junk, speak? Recently, my cousin found in the warehouses of the railway a large batch of hacksaw blades, drills, files, cutters, self-tapping screws, bolts, SOVIET production. Bought for a penny and made a fortune. Everything went away instantly and at a price 5 times more expensive than Polish, modern Ukrainian and Chinese counterparts.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        6. Samurai3X
          Samurai3X 1 December 2014 12: 04
          0
          Confused. Ugh you ...
          Grandmother is in Shadrinsk, and not in Uzhgorod.
          Now a cousin has gone to Uzhgorod for his wife’s relatives. All brains are clogged with this.
        7. kuz363
          kuz363 1 December 2014 12: 09
          0
          Do not equal 2008 with 2014. Then there was a global crisis. Affected all states. Now, along with the drop in oil, there are still sanctions against Russia. And at that time there were more investments in Russia if every year 100 billion US dollars were taken abroad. Those. then not everyone managed to steal.
        8. Wheel
          Wheel 1 December 2014 14: 41
          0
          Quote: Samurai3X
          My grandmother from my father, who worked for 40 years on a collective farm in the Urals (Uzhgorod), received a pension of 10 rubles.

          Given that the city of Uzhgorod in the Urals has never been observed ... then ...
      2. 3vs
        3vs 1 December 2014 06: 56
        -1
        What a "planned economy"!
        Planning is necessary, but in large, large-scale projects,
        with state participation, otherwise it’s just nonsense and harm!
        The plan is needed in the construction of the same cosmodrome, Olympic facilities,
        arms supplies, road construction, the same crossing
        Kerch Strait, etc.
        It's funny if we start planning again how much we
        need to sew panties, shoes, how many machine tools, excavators to release ...
        This is already a matter of the market and private business, demand must create supply,
        You don’t need to produce goods that no one needs.
        1. 3vs
          3vs 1 December 2014 07: 09
          +1
          Minusory, justify your minus, where am I wrong?
        2. atalef
          atalef 1 December 2014 08: 22
          +1
          Quote: 3vs
          What a "planned economy"!


          Planned economy, laughed
          The government adopted a budget (3 weeks ago) based on their oil price of 96 bucks, and the dollar - 37 rubles
          At the same time, yesterday on the news, Ulyukaev, Sechin and some other government pretzel, convinced that the fall in oil prices had been calculated, was expected and was expected by them almost from the beginning of the year.
          They cannot plan ahead for 3 months, and you are a planned economy
          They planned to bring the country to Zugundera in a year
          1. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 1 December 2014 10: 32
            +1
            I’ve been screaming for so long: the economic bloc of the government is resigning as a nonprofit, it's obvious! and Shulimov’s statement about maintaining inflation at 4-5%! bullshit! Already at an UNEXPECTED grain harvest, the price of flour is growing 30% and for buckwheat - 300% !!! What time! handed over, damn burned!
      3. avvg
        avvg 1 December 2014 07: 23
        +3
        The planned economy in the USSR is true, had a lot of advantages. Today it was not bad to use the positive aspects of planned economy.
        1. 3vs
          3vs 1 December 2014 07: 41
          -2
          That's it, "moments"!
        2. atalef
          atalef 1 December 2014 08: 23
          0
          Quote: avvg
          The planned economy in the USSR is true, had a lot of advantages. Today it was not bad to use the positive aspects of planned economy.

          What are the advantages?
          And indeed as a social. An economy cannot be planned if all the means of production are in the hands of the state?
        3. The comment was deleted.
      4. atalef
        atalef 1 December 2014 08: 09
        -5
        Quote: Finches
        In a planned economy, in conditions of total economic and political aggression of the West, there are much more advantages for the country and people!

        Can you give a successful example?

        Quote: Finches
        ! And if we recall the USSR, we will not forget that the state, among other things, bore a huge social burden for all the inhabitants of a huge country: free and, I note, very good education, free medicine, free housing,

        Well, remember the leveling, salaries of 80 rubles, etc.
        The country paid as if, the people seemed to be working
        Quote: Finches
        It is possible to enumerate for a long time and in detail, but I just wanted to emphasize that I would not categorically declare the inefficiency of the USSR economy.

        I wonder who is blind here?
        You don’t remember the endless lines in stores, the lines for houses lasting for generations, buying a car is an almost impossible dream, and lines, lines, recordings or order tables.
        And at the weekend - to the cottage. not because of the love of art, but because of real understanding, you can’t grow up - there will be nothing to eat in winter.
        maybe there wasn’t any in the store.
        1. Pervusha Isaev
          Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 08: 18
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          Can you give a successful example?


          Of course, here the state PLANS 100 million for the construction of Luzhniki and ALL the money goes for construction
          Luzhnikov, and now Russia is giving 13 billion dollars for the construction of a football stadium in St. Petersburg, and as a result, at the stage of 50% readiness, 45 billion have already gone and the end of the region is not visible. Here you have the advantages of a socialist-planned economy, ALL MONEY went where it should, and not afford the oligarchs-thieves ...
          1. atalef
            atalef 1 December 2014 08: 30
            0
            Quote: Pervusha Isaev
            Of course, here the state PLANS 100 million for the construction of Luzhniki and ALL the money goes for construction

            It would be funny if it weren’t so sad
            What’s the plan, the people must be watching the telly badly.
            The state has begun the next stage of privatization; shares are being sold - Rosneft, ENergomash, and some other 4 concerns.
            Why? Why the hell are we selling 25% of Rosneft’s shares, if Sechin said yesterday that oil production in Russia at the cost price is the lowest in the world and even 50 bucks a barrel is a very profitable price.
            Who is lying to whom? Who sells the golden egg-laying chicken? Rosneft is a state-owned enterprise.
            Never look at official propaganda, look at secondary signs, they are very difficult to fake.
            1. Pervusha Isaev
              Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 08: 32
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              It would be funny if it weren’t so sad
              What’s the plan, the people must be watching the telly badly.
              The state has begun the next stage of privatization; shares are being sold - Rosneft, ENergomash, and some other 4 concerns.
              Why? Why the hell are we selling 25% of Rosneft’s shares, if Sechin said yesterday that oil production in Russia at the cost price is the lowest in the world and even 50 bucks a barrel is a very profitable price.
              Who is lying to whom? Who sells the golden egg-laying chicken? Rosneft is a state-owned enterprise.
              Never look at official propaganda, look at secondary signs, they are very difficult to fake.


              is that the answer or what?
            2. anip
              anip 1 December 2014 09: 12
              +4
              Quote: atalef
              Why? Why the hell are we selling 25% of Rosneft’s shares, if Sechin said yesterday that oil production in Russia at the cost price is the lowest in the world and even 50 bucks a barrel is a very profitable price.
              Who is lying to whom? Who sells the golden egg-laying chicken? Rosneft is a state-owned enterprise.

              So that's why they sellprivatize that Rosneft is a chicken laying golden eggs. There are already a few enterprises in Russia that are profitable and, at least partially, belong to the state. It is necessary to privatize all profitable enterprises, and let those that remain with the state, from which there is no income. Why would a private trader unprofitable enterprises, even if their state at the expense of the people contains? Same?
        2. Finches
          Finches 1 December 2014 08: 53
          +3
          Forgive you Jews, if anything, for God's sake, I’m guided by the flag, we don’t understand the Russians! I personally liked living in the USSR! hi
          1. atalef
            atalef 1 December 2014 08: 59
            0
            Quote: Finches
            Forgive you Jews, if anything, for God's sake, I’m guided by the flag, we don’t understand the Russians! I personally liked living in the USSR! hi

            Do not identify me with all Jews. I think among the Jews there are who liked it
            It seems that in general you had a choice and an opportunity to compare.
            I liked and everything is good in the country - different things
            I liked some things the same way and in general - it’s youth, but youth is always beautiful, BUT - to say that everything was fine in the USSR --- just lying to yourself
            I have been in a fairly large number of countries and can compare
            Where people just lived, and where they themselves created difficulties and heroically overcome them.
            1. Finches
              Finches 1 December 2014 09: 14
              +1
              Again, it’s not typical for us Russians to just live — it’s boring! But to create difficulties for yourself and heroically overcome them is great, this is dynamics, this is life!
              This, of course, is my opinion, and I'm exaggerating a little.
              Naturally, there were economic difficulties - there was no jamon, foie gras, they rarely ate ..., there was a lot of stupidity, excesses, but there was something else - humanity, sincerity! There was no overwhelming Western pragmatism when the dollar dominated, and not man! And there was much more social justice.
              And if you are talking about material values, then a man comes to this world naked and leaves naked. So, under capitalism, you can leave naked much earlier than the time allotted to you - you, without explanation of reasons, can be kicked out of work, apartments and you will die under the fence ... but under socialism, poorly, but you would have lived your life!
              Of course, not everything is so simple, but it was better!
              1. atalef
                atalef 1 December 2014 14: 25
                +1
                Quote: Finches
                Again, it’s not typical for us Russians to just live — it’s boring! But to create difficulties for yourself and heroically overcome them is great, this is dynamics, this is life!

                Well, is it like in an anecdote when tankers changed a truck?
                Tankers (T) in the middle of the forest, terribly swearing, pulling a caterpillar. Suddenly appears
                Forest Fairy (F) and asks:
                F: -Tankists, tankers, and what are you doing this?
                T: -Fuck!
                F: -And you really want to have sex, tastefully?
                T: -Well Duc,
                Of course we want!
                Fairy waved her wand, and the tank fell off
                tower...
            2. Victor Demchenko
              Victor Demchenko 1 December 2014 10: 38
              +1
              Where people just lived, and where they themselves created difficulties and heroically overcome them.
              here I agree with you! I agree with the fact that there were a lot of flaws, but! for all that, such tricks as the Oboronservis case could not be a priori, even Leonid Ilyich’s daughter couldn’t steal as much as she stole, moreover, the stool of a stool was unpunished, and he himself didn’t stay away! negative
            3. Userpic
              Userpic 1 December 2014 13: 41
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Where are the people just

              What percentage?

            4. Wheel
              Wheel 1 December 2014 21: 18
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Do not identify me with all Jews. I think among the Jews there are who liked it

              Oh my god! laughing laughing laughing
              Another to trolling your level still grow and grow! hi
          2. The comment was deleted.
      5. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 1 December 2014 09: 41
        +5
        The slowdown in the economic growth of the USSR in the 80s is the result of the criminal anti-popular policy of the ruling party-farm nomenclature, aimed at restoring the capitalist system in the USSR - in order to transform the place in the hierarchy of management (administrative resource) into personal wealth for oneself and one's children. This is the true meaning of the privatization policy, covered by liberal mantras about "self-regulating market power" and "the effectiveness of private property management" against the state-planned economic system.
    2. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 1 December 2014 06: 13
      +5
      That's right, the most effective in the world. Unlike the arrogant Saxons, which parasitize most of the countries of the world, the USSR dragged the rest of the countries on its shoulders. With this gigantic load, it was the USSR that was the first to go into space, having made a huge economic, scientific, technological breakthrough.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 1 December 2014 07: 04
        +2
        The situation that has arisen today ... gives us a unique chance ...
        - completely modernize the economic basis,
        - and with it the entire social structure of the state.
        - Return order and stability to the country,
        - get away from total raw and product dependence on foreign markets,
        - create a social model that could comfortably go through the transition to the sixth technological structure,
        -to create a defense complex that did not leave a chance even for a minimal military conflict
        - and generally exclude the concept of budget deficit.
        (from article)


        All these tasks are impossible with the liberal government and the liberal Government of Russia controlled by the oligarchs.
        The liberal Government of Medvedev does not want to work, it continues to live on Western development models, further privatization (destruction) of Russian industry.
        Watch the last meeting of the leaders of the defense complex, chaired by President V.V. Putin, who took over the direct management of the defense complex. The Medvedev government has completely "signed" in its inability to manage, in this case, the defense industry, and in general, just to work.
        Does Putin really lack the "powers" to dismiss Medvedev's inoperable "Government" and create a Russian government capable of leading the mobilization economy of Russia?
        [media = http: //www.1tv.ru/news/polit/272786]
        1. anip
          anip 1 December 2014 09: 15
          +2
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Does Putin really lack the "powers" to dismiss Medvedev's inoperable "Government" and create a Russian government capable of leading the mobilization economy of Russia?

          Does Putin need this? And who said that the current government is ineffective (ineffective for Putin and the oligarchy, which we do not have, as Putin said)?
      2. atalef
        atalef 1 December 2014 08: 42
        -4
        Quote: VseDoFeNi
        The USSR dragged the rest of the country on its shoulders.

        Yes, yes, yes - only for some reason did these countries stop starving only after they pulled away from this umbilical cord.
        And here is a reverse example for you, Venezula, she lived for herself - until she chose the social path - now she gets fingerprinting.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 1 December 2014 22: 09
          0
          Quote: atalef
          Yes, yes, yes - only for some reason did these countries stop starving only after they pulled away from this umbilical cord.

          Yes Yes Yes Yes! Especially Bulgaria and Hungary. hi
    3. Alexander I
      Alexander I 1 December 2014 06: 57
      +2
      Errors are possible. But it is not possible to buy more than you sell. This is the basis of foreign trade. We currently live and have lived these years through the importation of goods from outside. But they destroyed their factories and collective farms. They brought the country to economic collapse. A planned economy many times as this wastefulness rises.
    4. Pervusha Isaev
      Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 07: 56
      +5
      Quote: Samurai3X
      Economically, the USSR collapsed because oil prices fell in 1980-1983.


      you just, like a parrot, repeat the liberalistic nonsense that we were fed with in order to prove the "reasons" for the collapse of the USSR. The economy of the USSR was not tied to the dollar and therefore the loss of several billion dollars from the USSR budget COULD NOT collapse the ECONOMY and cause a consumer collapse when there is nothing on the shelves in the stores. Our people did not eat dollars or oil, and our fields did not stop giving birth to bread, and cows to give milk, only because the times of a shortage of dollars in the national economy came, WHERE DOES THE PRODUCTS GONE from the stores? what did the dollar have to do with our food? What does dollars have to do with it?

      Quote: Samurai3X
      Those candy wrappers that are of little importance in the USSR (

      rubles became candy wrappers (unsecured goods) after the GOODS DISAPPEARED from the shelves, but the disappearance of imported goods in our trade share was small, and the main share was OUR GOODS to the dollar that had nothing to do with it.
      The collapse of the Union is a prepared and planned action based on DISINFORMATION ON THE DEPENDENCE of the ruble on the dollar ...
      1. atalef
        atalef 1 December 2014 08: 38
        -2
        Quote: Pervusha Isaev
        .The economy of the USSR was not tied to the dollar and therefore the loss of several billion dollars from the budget of the USSR Could not collapse the ECONOMY and cause a consumer collapse

        Could and how.
        Look what and how much the USSR bought over the hill - then you will understand
        In recent years, only grain of 100 million tons.
        So when the bucks ran out, what was the grain to buy? But it was feed grain i.e. compound feed, and without it, the entire meat industry began to die, and so on across the entire spectrum of purchased goods.
        1. Pervusha Isaev
          Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 09: 18
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          Look what and how much the USSR bought over the hill - then you will understand
          In recent years, only grain of 100 million tons.


          and now what? In per capita production in the 70s, 500 kg of the USSR was at the level of other countries, but they bought feed grain, and it was precisely because BREAD in the USSR was very cheap, and meat production was mostly ineffective — they fed pig bread — this was a distortion of socialism. But the grain production of the USSR and the USA were somewhere on the same level. In short, there was food in the country and there was growth too, but for some reason EVERYTHING disappeared into perestroika, and this is not the economy or the country, but the CONSPIRACY against our country Gorbachev and his team ...
        2. Userpic
          Userpic 1 December 2014 14: 12
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          What was the grain to buy?

          Five-year average gross grain harvest, million tons
           (in weight after revision)


          The average annual gross harvest of selected crop products
          five-year plans in the USSR, thousand tons


          Average annual production of basic crop products
          per capita in the USSR for five years, kg.


          Grain productivity in the USSR from 1971 to 1990, t / ha
          (in weight after refinement, without legumes)

          http://antisgkm.narod.ru/agric2.htm

          Quote: atalef
          Look what and how much the USSR bought over the hill
          1. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 17: 43
            -2
            Goskomstat again? They and not such crops with import can draw)))
            1. Userpic
              Userpic 1 December 2014 19: 02
              0
              Quote: Samurai3X
              Goskomstat again? They and not such crops with import can draw)))
              And is that an argument? laughing
              1. Samurai3X
                Samurai3X 17 December 2014 18: 22
                0
                Now, if you remove the Goskomstat, what other arguments will you have?
                But there everything is crossed out and crossed out. Edits are simply hellish, so that the population would feel at ease.
                And it touches me how you compare the whole time of the USSR and the Russian Federation, forgetting how many people were in the USSR and how many in the Russian Federation. How many factories were in Ukraine and other republics ...
        3. Wheel
          Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 16
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          In recent years, only 100 million tons of grain

          Atalef, you, apparently, are truly a unique Jew.
          Taking off my hat! hi
          Usually your people know how to count well, and you are so blundered. laughing
          On average, over the period 85-90, 34 million tons were purchased, which is 10 million tons less than the average for the previous five years.
      2. Samurai3X
        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 08: 48
        -3
        Quote: Pervusha Isaev
        you just like a parrot repeat liberalistic nonsense

        Very adult.
        In general, I noticed that if you say on this site that everything is a bunch. And in the days of the USSR, generally the kissel banks, then no one will say anything, only the pluses will crumble.
        But if you say that the Soviet Union raised the prosperity of the population at the expense of oil (and there is nothing wrong with that) - then you immediately parrot and say liberalistic nonsense.
        A bright past replaced brains?
        1. atalef
          atalef 1 December 2014 08: 54
          -2
          Quote: Samurai3X
          Very adult. I generally noticed that if you say on this site that everything is in a bunch. And in the days of the USSR, generally the kissel banks, then no one will say anything

          Of course, their hands will be busy exhibiting pluses

          Quote: Samurai3X
          But if you say that the USSR raised the population’s welfare due to oil (and there’s nothing wrong with that), then you’ll immediately parrot and say liberalistic nonsense

          Well, how else, all of a sudden, the CIA will visit this site and find out the terrible truth
          The people are so used to lying that they are already lying to themselves.
          1. dmb
            dmb 1 December 2014 09: 47
            +3
            A funny dialogue turns out. Especially with "our former people". To stigmatize the Soviet period for propaganda and immediately, with the same propaganda cliches, justify the unearthly happiness that capitalism gives. His rejection by the majority of the country's population can only be reduced to Russian laziness. Yes, they were starving, but our grandfathers and grandmothers received a penny. But maybe that terrible war, as a result of which the country was thrown back, was started not by the capitalists, but by us? Or maybe, instead of restoring the economy destroyed by the war, we were forced to spend gigantic money on defense, and it was not near our borders that kind American uncles built their bases? Yes, for a hundred years we would not need Czech socialism if we did not remember how quickly all these democrats fell under Hitler, and he ended up on our borders. So, when you reproach socialism for the lack of sausage, do not forget whose handiwork it was. And today, thanks to you and your kind, the majority and sausage is not much better, and NATO is an hour's drive not from Berlin, but from Rostov-on-Don. No, of course our parents and we do not know how to work like Abramovich, Rotenberg and Tishchenko. Such a sense of meanness is not given to us.
            1. atalef
              atalef 1 December 2014 14: 34
              -4
              Quote: dmb
              and right there, with the same propaganda clichés to justify the unearthly happiness that capitalism gives.

              capitalism does not give happiness, but everything is much more honest in it.
              Who does not work, he does not eat.

              Quote: dmb
              His rejection by the majority of the country's population is reduced exclusively to Russian laziness

              But what about capitalism in Russia? You laughed.
              In Europe - capitalism, in America - capitalism. With all rights and obligations. rule of law and elections.
              In Russia, capitalism has not yet been built
              Quote: dmb
              . So, when you reproach socialism for the lack of sausage, do not forget whose hands it’s

              And that socialism and sausage are so incompatible things?

              Quote: dmb
              And today, thanks to you and people like you, the majority and the sausage are not much better, and NATO is not an hour from Berlin, but from Rostov-on-Don

              Well, thanks to Putin.
              If a year ago (according to surveys in Ukraine, 17% of the population wanted to be in NATO, now it is over 60%)
              Quote: dmb
              No, of course, our parents and we do not know how to work, like Abramovich, Rotenberg and Tishchenko. This sense of meanness is not given to us.

              It seems that in the decaying west there are only solid oligarchs.
              I’ll tell you a terrible secret, here the same sewage system is clogged and someone cleans the tremors.
              1. dmb
                dmb 1 December 2014 15: 26
                0
                Quite a disgusting manner of ripping quotes from a single text and giving them their own meaning. As a rule, this is done in the absence of weighty arguments on the merits of the discussion. Apparently for this reason, you kept silent about the "great workers" I listed and did not deign to explain what they personally created out of their property. The reality is that this property was created by the very "loafers", and the "workers" brazenly stole it, and continue to steal, which in fact is the essence of capitalism. Socialism and sausage are quite compatible things, if the "workers" I mentioned do not climb into the country of socialism. You perfectly understand this, and therefore distort. Well, you dragged Putin into the wrong place. He is just one of the same "workers". Your last passage is generally funny. Well, how many, taking into account the free choice of the Parliament and the Government of Israel, citizens who amazingly cleaned the tremors?
                1. atalef
                  atalef 1 December 2014 15: 33
                  -2
                  Quote: dmb
                  You kept silent about the "great workers" I listed and did not deign to explain what they personally created out of their property.

                  Personally, how is this? From scratch or what?
                  Some of them work with brains, but not with hands - is it your personal creation or not?
                  Quote: dmb
                  The reality is that this property was created by the very "loafers", and the "workers"

                  No, someone does not take risks and works at the machine, and someone invests (with the possibility of losing everything) and some of them win.
                  This is demagogy (what you wrote) since it brings us back to the question, what is primary? Chicken or egg
                  Quote: dmb
                  Socialism and sausage are quite compatible things if the "workers" I mentioned do not climb into the socialist country

                  So in the USSR there were many * laborers *
                  Quote: dmb
                  Well, and how many citizens in the Parliament and Government of Israel who cleaned the tremors?

                  Well, in general, people who studied and have education as a rule do not engage in assimilation work.
                  Yes, and I would not want to see plumbers in the parliament.
                  Oranges do not grow on aspen, there Maduro is a bus driver, he lowered the whole country to the level of a bus stop.
                  1. Wheel
                    Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 33
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    No, someone does not take risks and works at the machine, and someone invests (with the possibility of losing everything) and some of them win.

                    Well, yes, don’t .. you don’t live. repeat laughing
              2. Wheel
                Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 30
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                capitalism does not give happiness, but everything is much more honest in it. Who does not work, he does not eat.

                Well, damn it, they made fun!
                The one who works champs sausage made from soy, ground bones, flavorings and flavor enhancers, and those who sweat their face are lobsters. laughing
            2. Aleksander
              Aleksander 1 December 2014 14: 52
              0
              Well said!
            3. The comment was deleted.
        2. Pervusha Isaev
          Pervusha Isaev 1 December 2014 09: 04
          0
          Quote: Samurai3X
          Quote: Pervusha Isaev
          you just like a parrot repeat liberalistic nonsense

          Very adult.
          In general, I noticed that if you say on this site that everything is a bunch. And in the days of the USSR, generally the kissel banks, then no one will say anything, only the pluses will crumble.
          But if you say that the Soviet Union raised the prosperity of the population at the expense of oil (and there is nothing wrong with that) - then you immediately parrot and say liberalistic nonsense.
          A bright past replaced brains?


          if you do not like the USSR, then what are you performing under the red flag? take the russian ...
          1. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 10: 33
            -3
            if you do not like the USSR, then what are you performing under the red flag? take the russian ...

            Not a "Russian", but a "Russian" crank ...
            Hamsters who hawk propaganda with ladles and ask for supplements annoy me. Moreover, with age, this disease only progresses in some.
            I love the USSR for free medicine and education, for a strong army and a long loaf.
            But when defilambra begin to chant about how self-sufficient and happy we were, what pensions are excellent, and how everyone farted Chanel No. 5, this is an unconscious (sometimes conscious) lie.
        3. anip
          anip 1 December 2014 09: 26
          +2
          Quote: Samurai3X
          In general, I noticed that if you say on this site that everything is a bunch. And in the days of the USSR, generally the kissel banks, then no one will say anything, only the pluses will crumble.

          But in general, is it not enough to say how it was under the USSR? Already 23 years have passed since he was gone.
          We ought to pay more attention to what is happening now, but no, the majority only shouts "krymnash", "glory", "russia is getting rocky." Moreover, it is strange, as you say, "it would seem, what has Putin to do with it," so they immediately begin to mold the cons. Most are brainwashed and somehow separate the "good Putin" from the rest of the government and the oligarchs.
          Well, it would seem, and here Putin:
          1. Samurai3X
            Samurai3X 1 December 2014 10: 38
            +1
            We have to wait. Soon the whole world will have another crisis.
            Oil falls in price - it is always not good)
            They are just trying to drop the ruble faster. There are certain mechanisms.
            Here both oil and the fact that some progress has begun now with the decoupling of the ruble from the dollar.
            Libya was generally bombed into the Stone Age only for the desire to untie Libyan oil from the dollar.
        4. 3vs
          3vs 1 December 2014 09: 38
          -2
          And what to do, be patient! fellow
          Comrade atalef "from there" hits on the spot with arguments.
          I think the "former ours" also ache for the country.
          By the way, he has something to compare with.
          And we, in the end, even with all our shortcomings, have
          what to be proud of, damn it! laughing

          Let's hope that, as Igor Talkov sang:
          "And defeated in battle
          I will rise and sing
          May in a hundred centuries
          In the country, not fools, but geniuses ... "
          I hope this happens sooner!
    5. Giant thought
      Giant thought 1 December 2014 10: 18
      +1
      Russia should use the opportunity presented to it one hundred percent, for no other is given.
      1. kuz363
        kuz363 1 December 2014 12: 31
        +3
        Destroyed industry for 23 years, and catch up in a few years? This does not happen. Moreover, Russia has only 2-3 years in the Reserve, when the Reserve Fund will end due to the low oil price. And the psychology of the people is not the same as under the USSR. Then they threw a cry - and the Komsomol went to build LAM or virgin land. Now who would go? All the guys want to be managers, and the girls want the wives of the oligarchs. At worst, thieves in law.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 37
          +1
          Quote: kuz363
          Destroyed industry for 23 years, and catch up in a few years? This does not happen.

          It happens.
          The first five-year plan is called.
    6. gorez.69
      gorez.69 1 December 2014 10: 25
      0
      Tales of the White Bull
    7. kuz363
      kuz363 1 December 2014 12: 03
      0
      Maybe it's not just oil? It is beneficial for each analyst to identify only one reason. But here and thoughtless distribution of loans by billions of dollars (which were then written off) to socialist friends around the globe and exorbitant spending on defense. Yes, and inefficient farming. Add anti-alcohol propaganda under Gorbachev, which also deprived the budget of part of the money. Moreover, the USSR simply bought on some military spending, for example, according to the Reagan SDI.
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 1 December 2014 12: 17
        +1
        Quote: kuz363
        Maybe it's not just oil?

        I have a feeling that no one has read the article itself. What is a two-tier system of money circulation someone google? So the article says everything you need to know. The reason for the collapse of the USSR was precisely the rejection of this system and the opening of the non-cash money market. Oil and everything else are related factors, but not the main ones.

        I was then in Moscow when the law "on enterprises" was being adopted and the law "On individual labor activity" was immediately adopted. My professor immediately christened him "ITD". And clearly on his fingers he explained what it means. The collapse of the entire economy. Moreover, the "Law on Enterprises" could only be a complete deb or a traitor.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 2 December 2014 03: 49
          +2
          Quote: Bakht
          I have a feeling that no one has read the article itself. What is a two-tier system of money circulation someone google? So the article says everything you need to know. The reason for the collapse of the USSR was precisely the rejection of this system and the opening of the non-cash money market. Oil and everything else are related factors, but not the main ones.

          The collapse of the USSR was prepared by the fight against drunkenness, which took huge sums out of circulation. And even the point is not that budget revenues from purely alcohol sales decreased.
          The attendant cutting down of vineyards and apple orchards, landfill glass factories also contributed.
          The people were prepared for a regime change by artificial shortages of sugar, bread, tobacco, and then universal coupon in the RSFSR.
          Oil is purely secondary business, its contribution to budget revenues was at the level of alcohol.
          And the laws "on enterprises" and the ITD were already the execution of a prepared victim.
    8. Aleksander
      Aleksander 1 December 2014 13: 41
      +2
      Quote: Samurai3X
      I would say about the efficiency of the economy of the USSR, but it’s better to just keep silent ...


      Yes, yes, it’s just not clear, but who recovered from this shattered economy after the war as soon as possible WITHOUT any other help (and there were no other such destructions ANYWHERE)?
      Who created the space industry, a powerful defense industry?
      Due to what Russia has been living for the past 20 years, is it not the Soviet heritage — power plants, trains, fields?
      Why, then, did people eat much more meat, fish, eggs, and now more potatoes and bread?
      1. Penelope
        Penelope 1 December 2014 14: 33
        +1
        At that time there was an idea, a dream in the minds of people, and now only the task is to survive.
      2. Samurai3X
        Samurai3X 1 December 2014 17: 38
        -5
        At the expense of the population who lived in poverty. Or do you think it was somehow different?
        People were happy to work for food (which they did). Thus, the conditions of the barracks will seem quite excellent to themselves.
    9. jktu66
      jktu66 1 December 2014 17: 48
      0
      Economically, the USSR collapsed
      A dozen other reasons for this collapse. And about efficiency - we are also exporting grain now, we bought decent amounts in the USSR.
      1. Userpic
        Userpic 1 December 2014 19: 08
        0
        Quote: jktu66
        we are also exporting grain now
        Grain production, thousand tons

        +1990 - 116 700
        +2000 - 65 400
        +2011 - 94 200
        1. Samurai3X
          Samurai3X 3 December 2014 11: 54
          0
          Do not forget to indicate in these statistics that in the USSR it was whole 15 republics. Russia now one.
          The population of the USSR was under 300 млн, and we have 143 млн. Do you feel the difference?
    10. sent-onere
      sent-onere 1 December 2014 22: 06
      +1
      This is a false statement. The bank gives out money exactly as much as it attracted on deposits
      minus the reserve ratio and plus equity. Credit animation is formed due to another effect - the issued loan is again put on deposit in another bank and is again issued. The same amount of money gets into circulation several times - this is the animation. More details on the forum:
      http://malchish.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=549

      And there is actually no money "out of thin air". There are only deposits not secured by banks' reserves. So they put the financial system in an unstable position. If you make the reserve rate of 100%, then all deposits will be secured. But then banks will not be able to issue loans - they have little of their own money.
    11. The comment was deleted.
    12. sent-onere
      sent-onere 1 December 2014 22: 09
      0
      I think that Gribanov is not quite right. The essence of capitalism is the privatization of money issue, which is carried out in exchange for government debt obligations. In essence, money in any capitalist country is private money.
      *
      One can argue hoarsely about the so-called debt of states to banks with rights to issue money, but few understand that bankers will never demand a return, since no one wants to cut a chicken that lays gold eggs. Of course, on the graph, the presence of debt supposedly underestimates the GDP indicators, but this does not affect the real GDP and economic power of their capitalist states. The reason for the capitalist crisis is not public debt, the reason is completely different.
      *
      The reason for the crisis of overproduction or the crisis of underfunded demand is very commonplace. Currently, almost the only channel for the flow of money into the economy is a bank loan. If there are no other channels, then a bank loan, which is spent on cost, at the end of the economic period by the time the products are sold creates an acute shortage of money. This lack of money does not allow the creation of added value on the market. What does not allow to receive profit as a result. And in the presence of loan interest in the economy there will never be any more.
      *
      Therefore, for the economy, the exchange of new money for government debt obligations is a measure that allows the economy to develop.
  3. Pavellio
    Pavellio 1 December 2014 05: 45
    +10
    It is high time to develop our production, and not to invest all available funds in "securities" of Western "partners".
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. wk
      wk 1 December 2014 07: 00
      +2
      Quote: Pavellio
      It is high time to develop our production, and not to invest all available funds in "securities" of Western "partners".

      for all the good against all the bad .... somehow it sounds like this ... as long as there is an independent "Central Bank", but in fact, a branch of the US Federal Reserve System will steer, but if you put forward the creation of a full-fledged state bank and a national currency with the ability its independent emission .... this will also be just a slogan ... HOW? here is the question, when half of the Duma 2/3 of the government and 3/4 of the Central Bank are direct puppets of the United States, and practically most of the Russian bourgeoisie uses offshore schemes and is actually not national ... and most of the people are politically passive ... so that sad.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 1 December 2014 08: 51
        -3
        Quote: wk
        somehow it sounds like this ... as long as there is an independent "Central Bank", but in fact, a branch of the US Federal Reserve System, it will steer

        You know. Write to Putin about this, maybe he doesn’t know what you know?
        1. Victor Demchenko
          Victor Demchenko 1 December 2014 10: 47
          0
          wrote, and more than once! they didn’t even give an answer, probably did not come out with a snout! but most likely he himself gave the command SUCH LETTERS AND CALLS NOT TO BE MISSED, because you will have to answer such a question, but the answer is obvious: we don’t give our own! so who is his own?
        2. wk
          wk 2 December 2014 01: 57
          +1
          including your Israel feeds on Russian money, our sweat and blood ... if I’m not mistaken, the United States donates more than 6 yards annually to Israel .... for such a state (6 million people) a lot! that's how you live on someone else's hump
      3. Userpic
        Userpic 1 December 2014 14: 29
        -2
        Quote: wk
        while there is an independent "Central Bank", but in fact a branch of the US Federal Reserve

        Not tired? laughing

  4. SVAROGE
    SVAROGE 1 December 2014 05: 56
    +3
    While there will be Jews in the Government, we will not see positive dynamics ...! Chaos, devastation, degeneration !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. GRF
        GRF 1 December 2014 06: 32
        +2
        While the people will be opofigest about their future,
        While he will humiliate himself for the fourth time,
        While he will believe that he’ll help him (for example, the West or the great helmsman will appear), acre of himself,
        and everything will blame some "Jews", we will not see any positive dynamics ...

        The economy in capitalism leads to a crisis of bank interest and profits.
        Because they deprive the economy of blood ..
    2. Tanarri
      Tanarri 1 December 2014 08: 05
      +2
      Yeah, let's collect all the Jews and into their furnace, I understand you correctly?
    3. atalef
      atalef 1 December 2014 08: 40
      +4
      Quote: SVAROGE
      While there will be Jews in the Government, we will not see positive dynamics ...! Chaos, devastation, degeneration !!!


      Well, thank God - they found the guilty.
      1. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 1 December 2014 10: 28
        +1
        Well, what about without the "world Jewish-Masonic conspiracy"? No way! Now also the "Annunaki-reptilians" from the Rothschilds and Rockefellers will catch up laughing
        And then it turns out that this "program" was implemented even during the "paleo-contact" laughing
    4. Samurai3X
      Samurai3X 1 December 2014 10: 45
      -2
      Anti-Semitism is the way out!

      © A.A. Hitler
  5. VseDoFeNi
    VseDoFeNi 1 December 2014 06: 03
    +1
    autocracy, this is our everything! We urgently need to build our own "club of interests" based not on the religion of money, but on philanthropy and love for nature.
    From a killer and a destroyer, it’s time for a man to become a keeper and a creator.
  6. Slovek
    Slovek 1 December 2014 06: 13
    +3
    We have already seen the consequences of those post-perestroika slogans: "The market regulates, supply-demand, a planned economy is not for a free person, etc.".
    It works, but against us and ultimately against Russia, because it’s cheaper, easier, more profitable to buy in China, South-East Asia and sell here than to do production in the country yourself. Costs, expenses, taxes, etc. totally different. For the reseller, this is a good margin and few problems, but for the country and the people a huge minus. We all see it. Sanctions have been imposed, but there is none. Production does not develop, and with them the rest related and dependent: infrastructure, supporting and serving enterprises, networks, roads, etc. (and this is again new jobs), and as a result, there are no deductions to the budget, young people are not studying, we are only sucking out the old Soviet one.
    It is necessary to plan the development of production necessary for the country and really support those entrepreneurs who will begin to engage in this development. Well, put them real plans for launching production and ask for terms and results.
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 1 December 2014 10: 32
      0
      The entrepreneur works for profit in his pocket, and not for the state plan with timelines and volumes. And he will invest capital where the rate of profit is higher, and not in accordance with the planned state interest.
  7. Indifferent
    Indifferent 1 December 2014 06: 15
    +1
    The author is certainly right! Plus he set it with pleasure!
  8. RusDV
    RusDV 1 December 2014 06: 29
    +3
    The current situation in connection with the crisis in Ukraine gives us a unique chance

    Gives. Only no one uses it .... On the contrary, they begin to beat the hands when they try to withdraw the dollar from mutual settlements and loans ... While the GDP does not dare to replace the IMF staff of "our" Central Bank. And they were not put there in order to "encroach on the sacred" ... Until these liberals are completely replaced, there is no sense in talking about the possibility of getting rid of dollar dependence. Rumor has it: ".. is not the time now" ... later, they say, when the US stock bubble bursts, i.e. no earlier than mid-2015 Will we live ... winked
  9. Bongo
    Bongo 1 December 2014 06: 38
    +4
    The second - requires the nationalization of the Central Bank and the complete demolition of the elite, which in the current conditions is very difficult to do.

    Of course it is problematic, this is not why these "elites" were created for the last 15 years.
  10. marina1811
    marina1811 1 December 2014 06: 58
    0
    incomprehensible example with the gold standard and Mexico.
  11. Signaller
    Signaller 1 December 2014 07: 55
    +1
    The economy of the USSR, especially during the period of pre-war mobilization and the late period, called stagnant, was not just effective, but the most effective in the world.
    A question. WHY.????? I think . that we had a cashless ruble. Not subject to any hesitation. He is or not. That's what we need to return to, all the more it worked well. And how to introduce it now, you just have to think. So many economists are sea. They will come up with an effective banking system. based not on petrodollars, but on all assets of the State.
  12. fomkin
    fomkin 1 December 2014 08: 17
    +1
    Article plus one but big. Only it will not resolve itself. Personally, I do not buy currency. Food and medicine are only domestic. TV and that of the Kaliningrad assembly. I vote only for the Communist Party, at least because of Glazyev. When it ripens to such an understanding, 50% of the population can hope for better times.
  13. iner
    iner 1 December 2014 08: 29
    +1
    It is necessary to implement the Gesell system.
    And to eradicate the system of court interest. Then the economy will be stable. And with a stable and predictable economy, you can and plan a system to drive.


    In Wörgl, which then had a population of 3000, the idea of ​​monetary reform took over the minds of 1932-1933. The burgomaster of the city convinced businessmen and management staff that no one would lose anything, but, on the contrary, would gain a lot by experimenting with money in the form described in Silvio Gesell’s book, The Natural Economic Order.

    The townspeople agreed, the magistrate issued 5000 “free shillings” (ie interest-free shillings), which were covered by the same amount of ordinary Austrian shillings in the bank. A bridge was built in the city, roads were improved, and investments in public services increased. This money paid salaries and materials, traders and entrepreneurs accepted them as payment.

    The fee for using this money was 1% monthly, i.e. 12% per year. It should have been paid to those who had a banknote at the end of the month. The fee was paid in the form of a stamp with a face value of 1% of the value of the banknote glued on the back of the banknote. Without such a mark, the banknote was invalid. Such a small fee led to the fact that anyone who received free shillings as a payment tried to spend them as quickly as possible before moving on to paying with their regular money. Wörgl residents even paid their taxes in advance to avoid making a fee for using the money. During the year, 5000 free shillings were in circulation 463 times; goods and services were produced in the amount of about 2 shillings (300 x 000). Normal shilling during this time was in circulation only 5000 times. [ 463 ]

    It was at this time, when many countries in Europe were forced to deal with rising unemployment, the unemployment rate in Wörgl decreased by 25% over the year. The fee received by the magistrate, which ensured a quick transfer of money from one hand to another, amounted to only 12% of 5000 free shillings = 600 free shillings. They were spent on public needs, i.e. for the benefit of the community, not the enrichment of its individual members.

    When more than 300 communities in Austria became interested in this model, the Austrian National Bank saw this as a threat to its monopoly. He intervened in the affairs of the magistrate and forbade the printing of free local money. Despite the fact that the dispute lasted a very long time and was considered even in the highest courts of Austria, neither Wörgl nor other European communities managed to repeat this experiment ... "
  14. Bakht
    Bakht 1 December 2014 09: 13
    +3
    About the dual-circuit money model was written a couple of days ago. The introduction of such a model (read the Stalinist model of the economy) is currently impossible. For several reasons. Basic on the surface.

    1. This model involves closing financial boundaries. That is, it is possible only in a closed system. If you remember, in the USSR they were shot for currency transactions. For the simple reason that it amounted to high treason. But you still need to trade. That is why a "transferable ruble" was introduced for the CMEA.

    2. The creation of such a system automatically means the abandonment of relations with the Customs Union and the Eurasian Union. Or, these countries must agree to the complete domination of Russia in their economic ties. The recent scandal with Belarus shows that no one wants to go this far.

    3. The creation of such a model means a complete purge of modern oligarchs in the Russian Federation. For the simple reason that it implies the abolition of the conversion of the ruble and the impossibility of bringing the loot to the West. The degree of their resistance to passing laws can be easily imagined. By the way, this explains the "Stalinist repressions" in the 30s. Clearing the political field becomes simply a condition for the survival of the government.

    In principle, these changes are only beneficial to ordinary people. It will be difficult 5 or 10 years. But there is a prospect. This also explains the phenomenon of support by the people of Stalin. But this is what the people decide and what the oligarchs decide - this is an important question. As practice shows, the opinions of ordinary people do not solve anything. Well, only if there is a riot.

    Summarizing: Perhaps a return to a planned economy and a change in the model of economic development is the way out. but this requires the determination of the political leadership in the civil war and the stiff suppression of the opposition. Any opposition. Political, economic, informational. That is totalitarianism. Ignoring the squeals of truth-cutters and liberals inside and outside the country. And full (this is very important) support of the population.
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 1 December 2014 10: 38
      0
      Where is the driving force behind this transition? New Bolsheviks (who could win a new civil war) are not visible on the horizon.
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 1 December 2014 11: 05
        +2
        The answer was given by the outstanding Russian philosopher A. Zinoviev. In my book "Russian Tragedy" I do not give links, because reading is really hard. Whoever wants to read it himself.

        “The current state of Russia reminds me of the retreat of the defeated army,” says the Defender. “Moreover, the retreat is panic. Throws everything that is difficult or impossible to keep, to keep. So running is easier. Run away, saving the skin, few. The rest are falling behind. Marauders are making profit.

        “And at the same time they create the appearance of success, recovery, victories,” I say. “There was no such dusting and boasting even in the Soviet years.

        - It is necessary to justify oneself, hide the real situation, maintain one’s position, cash in.

        “And what will it lead to?”

        - Why “lead”? Already led. It's funny to listen when they talk about the threat of crisis and even disaster. The catastrophe has already occurred. We live in a state of disaster. And everyone says to us that we are not close to her, not on the verge of disaster. The president said that no one is threatening Russia now. Who are they taking us for ?! For round idiots ?! We really are no longer threatened, because we have already been defeated !! They killed us, but death does not threaten the dead.

        “But we are still alive!” You have to do something! At least something!

        - This is the concept of the current government. The concept of legitimization of surrender. To do anything means to pretend that something is being done to save the country. This is an imitation of deed, window dressing, visibility. If you do, then, as they say, in a big way. Something out of the ordinary.

        - What?

        - I do not know. Maybe rise to the full height and with the singing of the “International” go to certain death, as the communists once did. But we are not communists. We are just commies.
  15. qwert_s
    qwert_s 1 December 2014 10: 00
    +3
    I was born and lived in the USSR! I'm proud of it! And I do not remember that someone would starve as they are now and be out of work.
  16. Gardamir
    Gardamir 1 December 2014 10: 12
    +5
    Reading the comments, I forgot what the article was about. Therefore the answer. to all whom he carefully instructed the minuses: samurai and muffin. Well, and other anti-Soviet. My father is a carpenter, a nurse's mother, was born in a small Soviet town on the non-black earth. And for some reason, everything was enough for me. And now I think that a free Soviet apartment is better than a bombing in federal Russia. Many pretend. they don’t remember how the Soviet Union lived all the time under sanctions. By the way, then the sanctions were real. And now, well, the top ten ministers were forbidden to travel to their beloved America, so what difference does it make to me. And let gentlemen not turn everything upside down, it’s now trading in oil, the counters are filling up. How many enterprises have closed and are closing under the current government?
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 1 December 2014 10: 42
      +2
      Quote: Gardamir

      You will not explain anything to those who are already sick with Western "values". I argued a lot both in real life and in virtual. Impenetrable. Once I asked the zealots of freedom "what is the greatest freedom they have lost and gained?" The fact that people did not read W. Palme is not so bad. But the fact that there is no reason is already scary. So the most important freedom that you have lost is the right to work. In all religions it is said that a person should "earn his own bread by the sweat of his brow." Nowhere is it said about loan capital or a quarterly financial report. In the USSR there was an article for parasitism. This is REAL freedom. Not 20 varieties of sausages on the counter, but the ability to earn your own piece of bread yourself and not depend on an official. And then there will be all other freedoms.

      To the same lovers of criticism of the USSR, I can advise a letter from a person who really knows the state of things. The Minister of Geology of the USSR E. Kozlovsky refused the prize of the President of the Russian Federation (D. Medvedev) and explained why he did it. The letter also gives a brief analysis of the economy of the USSR and the Russian Federation.

      http://www.mk.ru/politics/article/2011/04/17/581738-gramotnyiy-protest-prezident
      u.html

      The full text of the letter at the end of the article.
  17. Mviktor
    Mviktor 1 December 2014 10: 23
    +1
    The insistent attempt of the financial lobby to persuade the government to switch exclusively to cashless payments, the essence of the transition to monetary surrogates, this will allow you to build even more sophisticated schemes of deception on the money.

    Nabiulina is now strikingly eliminating the Central Bank’s cash management network and closing the RCC. Under the strict guidance of Gref, we are forcibly switching to electronic cashless payments with the population. At the same time, they have not yet created their electronic payment system. In the event of an escalation of the conflict with America, we will simply be disconnected from the electronic system and there will be no financial reserves in the country, since they are almost all in the form of numbers in US computers and the population will be left without cash. Try to live with the electronic card in the rural outback. I'm not talking about how Gref is preparing the privatization of the electronic ruble, that's where the deception of the century
  18. saag
    saag 1 December 2014 10: 26
    +3
    that's how we lived under the USSR, we were "swollen" from hunger, ...
  19. mamont5
    mamont5 1 December 2014 11: 13
    0
    "The economy of the USSR, especially during the period of pre-war mobilization and the later period called stagnation, was not only efficient, but the most efficient in the world."

    Unless, of course, not counting agriculture.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 1 December 2014 12: 22
      0
      And in agriculture too. Only comparable things must be compared. Weather conditions in most of the USSR are much worse than European and American ones. More than half of the farmland in the USSR was in the "risky farming" zone. You can compare the conditions of Ukraine and Canada. These are more or less comparable things. And we must compare the provision of fertilizers and agricultural machinery. The yield in the USSR was lower, but this did not in any way affect the provision of the population with food.

      Khrushev began to destroy agriculture. Before his death, Stalin wrote a couple of letters where he categorically forbade the transfer of MTS to collective farms. And he explained why this would lead to the impoverishment of collective farms. When discussing this issue in the Politburo, according to rumors, Khrushchev knocked on his bald head and said "our little Marx." First of all, Khrushchev handed over the MTS to the collective farms, thereby signing their impoverishment.
  20. Lyubov_K
    Lyubov_K 1 December 2014 11: 43
    +3
    Quote: Samurai3X
    Hmm ... I would say about the efficiency of the economy of the USSR, but it is better to just keep silent ...

    I registered on the site only to object to you.

    Strongly disagree with you. I know firsthand about the economy of the USSR I have practical experience in the banking system of that time. Everything was spinning like a clock.

    The Soviet banking system was spinning like a clock. There were three banks: State Bank of the USSR, Stroybank of the USSR and Vneshtorgbank of the USSR. There was no Sberbank, there was Sberkassa. The bottom line is different. The USSR State Bank was engaged, among other things, in the issue of money into circulation. It was a whole science.

    The current "banking" system is no match. In the USSR, consumer loans were also issued: for the construction of a garden house, for the purchase of a cow / horse, for the purchase of a cooperative apartment. I'm not talking about loans for refrigerators and other consumer goods.

    Pensions
    Yes, the farmers had a small pension. But it should be considered not only the pension itself, but also the free provision of Soviet citizens: pensioners traveled in transport for free, were treated for free. Utility payments - a penny.

    Since it was possible to serve military pensioners at the bank (later transferred from the State Bank to Sberkassy), I also know what military pensions were and what benefits military pensioners enjoyed. I do not know how things are now with this.


    PS
    Since I myself have lived here from the Urals and have lived here all my life, I have a question for you: where is the city of Uzhgorod in the Urals?
    from your phrase: "I have a grandmother on my father's side, who worked for 40 years on a collective farm in the Urals (Uzhgorod), received a pension of 10 rubles. All the old people there received such a pension." I was always firmly convinced that Uzhgorod is Western Ukraine. She doubted her geographical knowledge, climbed into the old atlas - there is no Uzhgorod in the Urals.
    1. Samurai3X
      Samurai3X 1 December 2014 12: 29
      0
      I wrote later that Shadrinsk. My cousin has left for Uzhgorod. Brains jammed on this name. Scared for him greatly. With everything that is happening in Ukraine now, anything is possible.
  21. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 1 December 2014 11: 56
    0
    Quote: DRA-88
    The minimum pension in the USSR was 36 rubles!


    I read similar pearls and take evil where you get these data from, maybe there was such a minimal, only at the end of the seventies, my mother retired in 1965, received a collective farm of 8 rubles, then 12, etc. at that time who did not try to live on 8 rubles.
  22. Lyubov_K
    Lyubov_K 1 December 2014 12: 22
    0
    Quote: A1L9E4K9S
    my mother retired in 1965, received a collective farm of 8 rubles, then 12, etc. At that time, no one tried to live on 8 rubles.

    It is impossible to simply state - "8 rubles pension" relative to the Soviet period. Add the social benefits that pensioners received and you get a completely different profitability figure.
  23. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 1 December 2014 12: 29
    0
    Quote: Lyubov_K
    Add the social benefits that retirees received, get a completely different figure of profitability.


    You can list what privileges pensioners had at that time, at that time they didn’t take taxes on air, I have nothing against it, the country had to be restored.
  24. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 1 December 2014 12: 37
    0
    Quote: Lyubov_K
    Yes, the farmers had a small pension. But it should be considered not only the pension itself, but also the free provision of Soviet citizens: pensioners traveled in transport for free, were treated for free. Utility payments - a penny.


    Yes, there were these social benefits in the city, and where did you see them in the villages, what was free to ride on, where was the communal apartment in the village at that time, there was only that medicine was free, and then forty kilometers had to get to that free.
  25. Lyubov_K
    Lyubov_K 1 December 2014 12: 40
    +3
    Quote: A1L9E4K9S
    You can list what privileges pensioners had at that time, at that time they didn’t take taxes on air, I have nothing against it, the country had to be restored.

    Smiled.

    She began her activity in the banking sector as an accountant-operating officer for budget revenues (union and republican budgets). Therefore, about the then taxes - from personal experience.

    Free medicine, free travel, if a labor veteran is 20 years old at one enterprise - social benefits. The only tax on citizens is income tax. They also took 1% of the salary to the trade union, contributions to the Komsomol, and CPSU contributions.

    Yours: "At that time they did not take taxes only for the air" - be convincing, list the taxes that Soviet citizens paid.
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 1 December 2014 15: 37
      0
      Only the "childlessness tax" comes to mind, which for some reason was taken only from single men laughing
  26. Tektor
    Tektor 1 December 2014 12: 46
    +1
    The economy of the USSR, especially during the period of pre-war mobilization and the late period, called stagnant, was not just effective, but the most effective in the world. Tasks solved with its help cannot be implemented in modern Russia. Such a targeted concentration of industrial and infrastructure efforts under capitalist relations is impossible.
    Not at all. The success of the economic breakthrough of the pre-war period was associated with several factors, but the main of which were: 1. Catching up development, i.e. we were engaged in import substitution, i.e. built factories to produce what was already in the rest of the world (no R&D expenses); 2. The ruble was not convertible, and therefore, there was no connection between prices there, beyond the hill, and here, i.e. it was possible to manipulate the prices of imported goods, to inflate their cost in order to make a profit in rubles (they sold grain to the west, at the request of the west, received little currency, because there was depression and prices were low, but low for this currency at prices, often below cost, they bought manufactured goods and specialists who set up production for us in the USSR). Now this will also be possible if chaos and anarchy in the EU begin, and everything goes to that. The ruble can also be made quasi-convertible by introducing restrictions on the purchase of foreign currency for rubles, and then it will be possible to manipulate prices again.
  27. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 1 December 2014 13: 03
    -3
    Quote: Lyubov_K

    She began her activity in the banking sector as an accountant-operating officer for budget revenues (union and republican budgets). Therefore, about the then taxes - from personal experience.


    Dear, what time did you live? Your personal experience does not bother me, I know how much money was calculated from me, you forgot the tax for childlessness, we’re talking about the sixties, and you’ve swept me the time I worked in since 1964.
  28. Altona
    Altona 1 December 2014 13: 12
    0
    All this is good, of course ... But so far our economy demonstrates a directly proportional dependence on the price of oil ... The ruble and the price per barrel of the Brent mark are linked by a direct lever, the price of oil is lower, the price of the ruble is lower ... ... That is, legally, taking into account the direct binding of the ruble to currencies, it turns out that the ruble is a derivative of a surrogate ... The saddest thing is that the Government has withdrawn from supporting the ruble exchange rate and is engaged in PR of the "usefulness" of this event ...
  29. Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 1 December 2014 13: 24
    +1
    I read today's article of our financial speculator with twenty years of experience on Newsland. What we have lived up to. Speculators are already writing about the Central Bank as a wrecker and enemy of the people. It turns out that even speculators are much more patriots than the Central Bank. It is interesting that the question of the Chinese leader what do you have there with the ruble, he did not wait for a clear answer from our guarantor. And what was this whale waiting for? What will they say to him that at the helm of a punks, which after being plundered a year later will be removed and just like Taburetkin quietly hushed up or admit the rulers' economic illiteracy or say that they specially put the enemies of the people on the board? Yes, never in my life. On the fourth day, our guarantor will speak. Again, under Brezhnev, the speeches will be long, empty, people will be asked to be patient, since the enemy is on the threshold, they liberalize everything and everything more, they will make new friends from global liberals on the board, perhaps Kudrin, who squandered savings, but bought U.S. bonds so that everything was fine there. I won’t be surprised, pah, as if not to jinx it, wait for Chubais to watch from the Bilderberg Club. Let's see what the guarantor will be broadcasting. The truth is certainly not in the domestic politics. And in the external one, if you carefully read the different press, our ministers will quietly, for now, and if necessary, and will quickly hand over everything. But we are not thirty-seven years old, is it not so. Happy holiday to all of you.
  30. Lyubov_K
    Lyubov_K 1 December 2014 13: 35
    +3
    Quote: A1L9E4K9S
    Quote: Lyubov_K

    She began her activity in the banking sector as an accountant-operating officer for budget revenues (union and republican budgets). Therefore, about the then taxes - from personal experience.


    Dear, what time did you live? Your personal experience does not bother me, I know how much money was calculated from me, you forgot the tax for childlessness, we’re talking about the sixties, and you’ve swept me the time I worked in since 1964.

    Worked since 1973. Taxes from citizens - income and childless. And that’s it. There were no more taxes from citizens. By the way, the tax rate on childlessness was differentiated. They also took contributions: 1% to the trade union, contributions to the Komsomol and party contributions.
    On the issue of profitability: here you can still calculate preferential tickets / coursework for both parents and their children. Professional medical examination of the population is also free.

    I have no nostalgia for the Union - it is senseless to yearn for what was lost, but one cannot be unfair to that period. Suffice it to say that back then we were struggling with costs, and now with "inflation".
    I am sure that the Soviet economic experience must be studied and the best taken from there. Without studying our own experience, we will skid until we get bogged down at all.
    1. Altona
      Altona 1 December 2014 14: 11
      +1
      Quote: Lyubov_K
      On the issue of profitability: here you can still calculate preferential tickets / coursework for both parents and their children. Professional medical examination of the population is also free.

      --------------------------------
      In the USSR, there were public consumption funds and extensive trade union activity ... My father, at my age on free and cheap vouchers, constantly rested, albeit inside the country ... And we changed 3 apartments in 20 years in the direction of increasing ... This is why then the "objective" comparators do not see the point blank ... In addition, the trade unions subsidized public catering in industrial and student canteens from 30 to 50% of the cost of meals ... For some reason, they also do not take into account ... I will say that lunch in the canteen of the institute cost 15-20 rubles a month ... That is, you could have dinner for 40-50 kopecks and it was guaranteed not to starve ...
    2. atalef
      atalef 1 December 2014 14: 48
      -2
      Quote: Lyubov_K
      Worked since 1973. Taxes from citizens - income and childless. And that’s it. There were no more taxes from citizens


      So what ? We can talk about the only thing - LIFE LEVEL - the rest does not play a role.
      I pay over 52% of taxes (or even more), what does this mean? Voo, the question is complicated.
      If in Russia the maximum tax level is 13%, does this mean that my colleague (working in my position at the RAO EU - as an example) has a standard of living 4 times higher than mine?
      Quote: Lyubov_K
      I’m sure that the Soviet economic experience needs to be studied and the best taken from there.

      For example ?
      1. Altona
        Altona 1 December 2014 15: 30
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        If in Russia the maximum tax level is 13%, does this mean that my colleague (working in my position at the RAO EU - as an example) has a standard of living 4 times higher than mine?

        --------------------------------
        This is just the tip of the tax "iceberg", the rest of the payments are made by the employer ... This is up to 39% of the nominal salary ... Add 13% and get the same 52% ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 1 December 2014 15: 34
          0
          Quote: Altona
          This is just the tip of the tax "iceberg", the rest of the payments are made by the employer

          Do you think that our employer pays nothing?
          1. Altona
            Altona 1 December 2014 15: 50
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            Do you think that our employer pays nothing?

            ------------------------
            I don't think anything, I say that income tax does not mean all tax payments per citizen ... Another question is that our tax base itself is low, in the regions salaries differ many times from those in Moscow or just megalopolises ... But this is "federalization "... Each region" develops "independently, in spite of the fact that everything more or less valuable has been bought by Moscow ... In this case, it is incorrect to compare a compact state with a concentrated infrastructure with a state stretched across its territory, requiring large expenditures on infrastructure, protection borders and trite for heating ...
      2. Altona
        Altona 1 December 2014 16: 02
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        So what ? We can talk about the only thing - LIFE LEVEL - the rest does not play a role.

        ------------------------
        This is what we need to talk about ... Proceeding from the propaganda fork "capitalism in Israel (hereinafter everywhere) -socialism in the USSR" is stupid, inappropriate and initially distorting reality ... We are talking about how economic administration was used, but it is more abruptly in the West than in the USSR, because competition is prohibited, the corridor is open for goods from Germany and closed for goods from Moldova (for example) ... Social payments are also not falling from the sky, they are included in taxes, as, for example, in Germany, where there is also "hospital care" and other similar payments that take away about a third of tax revenues ... And there is no "free market" except for the manipulations of speculators on the stock exchanges ... All around there is strict quotas on markets, capital, goods and resources ...
  31. Sergey Chernyshev
    Sergey Chernyshev 1 December 2014 13: 43
    +4
    There were no oligarchs in the USSR. At the moment, we generally have a criminal kaganate at the top of financial power that has seized upon permissiveness. Meanwhile, the poor servants of the forelocks are tearing each other up for the oligarchs' gesheft, as is indicative of this happening in Ukraine. One way or another, the world economy is moving to a standstill and the question remains whether Russia will be able to jump off this taratayka, or will go down with the European economy.
  32. NBN
    NBN 1 December 2014 14: 43
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Pervusha Isaev
    Our country was BASICALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT

    In all respects, imported goods were an order of magnitude better, better, more beautiful - people can’t be fooled.
    There was no prosperity, there was no diversity; I am generally silent about abundance.
    One simple question? Can you compare with what is in stores now and then?
    I dare say, in the decaying west, what is now, was 40 years ago. and in the self-sufficient USSR for some reason, changes began only with the fall of the human regime itself.
    Explain why?

    Imported goods were better - because there was a strict selection on the quality of imported goods. Purchased the best.
    Can you compare what's in stores now and then?
    I can - we ate real meat, drank real milk, ate real vegetables and canned food from them. Now - pseudo-meat pumped up with water and antibiotics from ..., milk does not turn sour for a week and what the liquid consists of, even a chemist will tell a horseradish, I like stewed fruit or juice from wild pear - I have not bought it for 5-7 years - it's not on sale! There is something identical to natural! Powder wine, cognac from ... GMOs, soybeans, further compare? Offer to buy grandmother from the village natural products from geyropa, will she have enough of her current large capitalist pension for at least a couple of days?
    The changes have begun ... And who said that for the better? We’ve got noodles and we’ve put all our uranium supply up for the chewing gum. You would talk about this with my father, an orphan left after the war. The state fed him, learned, lived and lives in a decent house, learned and raised 3 children to his feet (all with a higher, real !!! education, own housing and decent work). And he is a simple driver in a small state farm.
    Why when they begin to compare the West and the USSR, then they compare a pensioner from Mukhosk with a millionaire from Las Vegas? And let's compare the living standards of the chief engineer of a large factory of the times of the USSR with the life of a homeless person from Detroit. And then we'll talk.
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 December 2014 15: 08
      -3
      Quote: NBN
      Imported goods were better - because there was a strict selection on the quality of imported goods. Purchased the best.

      He laughed. drove through
      Quote: NBN
      Can you compare what's in stores now and then?

      I can do the same, then there was little that was
      Quote: NBN
      I can - we ate real meat, drank real milk, ate real vegetables and canned food from them

      Yes, but in the remaining strongholds of socialism such as S. Korea. Cuba or Venezuela and there is none

      Quote: NBN
      them. Now - pseudo-meat pumped from water and antibiotics from

      By the way. try selling beef-inflated beef in England or Canada or even just frozen - you will be caught and you will have a very pale look
      Do not count on that. what do you see on the shelves in Russia, what is the same all over the world
      Quote: NBN
      The state fed him, learned, lived and lives in a decent house, learned and raised 3 children to his feet (all with a higher, real !!! education, own housing and decent work). And he is a simple driver in a small state farm.

      Do you think that in the capital society they do not care about orphans?
      As an example. in Israel there are no orphanages, they simply do not exist and not because there are no orphans - they are simply adopted immediately, and the orphans also have a full state. security
      Quote: NBN
      Why when they begin to compare the West and the USSR, then they compare a pensioner from Mukhosk with a millionaire from Las Vegas?

      Let's compare with my mother, who came to Israel 20 years ago and managed to work 10 years before retirement
      He receives in total (along with a housing allowance) about 800 bucks, of course + (free) travel, medicine, museums, municipal taxes, 50% for electricity, TV, etc.
      If you want to compare not with a millionaire, but with a simple employee (like me), the pension will be about 2800-3000 bucks + severance pay of 500tbaks.
      Of course, this is far from everyone - but I'm not a millionaire from Las Vegas either.
      Quote: NBN
      And let's compare the living standards of the chief engineer of a large factory of the times of the USSR with the life of a homeless person from Detroit. And then we'll talk.

      Let's compare the living standards of the chief engineer and the chief engineer (from Detroit) ---- believe me, it’s better not to compare
      1. NBN
        NBN 1 December 2014 22: 03
        0
        Quote: atalef
        He laughed. drove through

        I do not laugh, I bought then and buy now - I compare. For the rest, there is also something to say. But I will not breed flood.

        If Detroit sounded - that's what a minute search on the internet gives.
        http://visualhistory.livejournal.com/791571.html
        These are those who are now teaching us to live.
        And it was they who were not driven into the blockade, had not robbed, bombed or waged wars on their territory, their moneybags, having robbed those around them, had not yet fled from the country with the loot, and much more.
        And if they die a couple of wars, what did Russia endure?
  33. Gardamir
    Gardamir 1 December 2014 14: 55
    +1
    Why talk about what happened. Here are some recent examples today. Russia sells coal to "friendly" Ukraine. And yet, it was decided to privatize Rosneft.
  34. I think so
    I think so 1 December 2014 16: 30
    +1
    The article is quite objective, despite some incorrectness. For example, it is incorrect to deduct the debts of the STATE from the country's GDP. This is the same as subtracting kilograms from kilometers. Of course, there is SOME connection between the amount of government debt and the level of GDP, but with what ratio it is UNKNOWN. By the way, maybe this coefficient is actually more than one, or maybe less. The proposal to "live peacefully" in one country and market and planned economy also looks dubious. Rather, even this existence is IMPOSSIBLE because the MARKET (thieves, corruption, the West) always destroys plans ... Why did the USSR collapse - in my opinion, it collapsed BECAUSE OF POOR-QUALITY PLANNING OF THE ECONOMY! So why does the author think that planning and theft can survive coexisting in one state? Such hopes are not based either on previous experience (USSR) or even on everyday logic. Judge for yourself enough for the market (thieves, corrupt officials, enemies) to buy a couple of three planning people AND EVERYTHING will collapse. And these people will say WELL DID NOT GUESS WRONG PLANNED, now what? Or even worse EVERYTHING WILL SAY THE PLANNED SYSTEM IS BAD! (Even though it's not true) Planning system IS GOOD IF PLANS ARE GOOD and vice versa. Therefore, I think Russia has only one way out - TO CLOSE THE IRON CURTAIN AGAIN, like in China. Planning in strategic industries and the market in services and small-scale production. But the current Russian leadership WILL NOT COPE WITH SUCH TASKS, I will not list the reasons for them. This means that it is necessary to bring to power a party with a leader who has authority in the country and is supported by broader support than the "oligarchs". Otherwise, the disappearance of Russia from the world map is INEVITABLE like Yugoslavia ...
  35. Lyubov_K
    Lyubov_K 1 December 2014 17: 36
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    So what ? We can talk about the only thing - LIFE LEVEL - the rest does not play a role. I pay over 52% of taxes (or even more), what does this mean? Voo, the question is complicated. If in Russia the maximum tax level is 13%, does this mean that my colleague (working in my position at the RAO EU - as an example) has a standard of living 4 times higher than mine?

    "I'll tell you right now ..."
    I don’t know what the “standard of living” is, it seems to me that, judging by the statistics, this is Abramovich's yacht plus my pension, divided in half. That is, the average temperature in the hospital.

    One cannot speak, in terms of tax rates, about a certain level.

    It seems to me that we are all talking about the wrong thing. "Economics" has taken possession of the minds so much that the reason is discussed, not the effect. It should be about equal opportunities, or as close as possible. Everyone will determine the standard of living for himself.

    Yes, at least how much you take taxes, but without reducing costs, the economy will steadily crawl to collapse. And no one talks about costs today. Probably, for the simple reason that there are already no specialists who know about the costs.

    Who would have thought that having laughed at the slogan "the economy should be economical" in the Brezhnev era, today it has become more relevant than ever.
  36. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 2 December 2014 14: 49
    0
    Quote: atalef
    maybe there wasn’t any in the store.

    But for some reason, everyone had a bottle of champagne, Armenian cognac, caviar, etc. in the refrigerator for the New Year in the refrigerator, etc. (continue the list) Most of them had a box of chocolates to go to the authorities. And a lot more to remember. Everyone was sure that tomorrow they would not be hungry, and on legal leave they would visit any city or rest in a sanatorium for FREE. And they worked as expected and everyone had work. Cars drove, ships went and planes flew. So there is no need to find fault with everything Soviet, we built for children (even if we live badly, but our children will live better) This was the worldview of our parents, and we ourselves still have it. We will feed and help until we die. And the Western principle "every man for himself" is alien to us.