The myth of the ancient history of the Ukrainians

Unfortunately, modern Ukrainian story built mostly on new myths that were created, which strengthen the differences between parts of a single Russian people. Modern Ukrainian historians and politicians have taught nothing about the collapse of Soviet statehood and ideology, which in many respects were also based on the myths of Marxism-Leninism. And they are eagerly building their own - mostly nationalist myths in the field of the history of Ukraine. One of the most important, along with the myth of the Soviet occupation, is the myth of hoary antiquity of Ukrainian history.

The myth of the ancient history of Ukraine

Regarding the period before the creation of the ancient Russian state or so-called. Kievan Rus (the inhabitants of this state themselves called it simply “Russian Land”, “Russian Land”), many Ukrainian nationalist-minded (or practicing the order of the new elite) historians develop the theory of the “autochthonousness” of Michael Hrushevsky. Its essence is that the distant ancestors of modern Ukrainians have lived on the territory of the present state of Ukraine since the Neolithic period, that is, the New Stone Age, the last stage of the Stone Age.

The main goal of this politicized theory is to find the fundamental differences between the “Ukrainians” and the Russians already at the stage of the primitive communal system. The main method in achieving this goal is the desire to “close” the primitive tribes of Indo-Europeans, proto-Indo-Europeans into the framework of the territory on which the ancient Russian statehood was subsequently formed, which is accordingly attributed to “Ukrainians”. These pseudo-historians are trying to maximally push the timeframe of the existence of the Ukrainian people, to prove its “birthright” in relation to the Russian people. In principle, there is nothing surprising in these attempts - there is a political order, and nationalism is characterized by a desire to prove the “peculiarity” and “superiority” of its people, to wipe out its history. In particular, such works can be found among the Mari or Chuvash intelligentsia. True, the people are usually present, and here the situation is more complicated - the “Ukrainian people” were actually created in the USSR by entering the nationality “Ukrainian” in the passport column and creating the foundations of statehood — the Ukrainian SSR. Prior to this, there was an understanding of the fact that there is a single Russian people, and the historical areas of its settlement - Small (South) Russia, Belaya Rus, Great Russia, New Russia.

And some ukronatsionalistov so demolishes the "roof" on this background, that they give something difficult to comment, such as: Ukrainian political scientist, president of the Institute for Society Transformation Oleg Soskin. He literally said the following: “The Muscovites stole the language, the Orthodox faith, the name of the country from the Ukrainian people, and now the time has come to give it all back.” Further detailing of the topic followed, according to Soskin, there is no need to "confuse the Moscow-Kremlin occupation of Ukraine with the Russian question." The Russian Federation is the state of Chimera, the present Muscovy. The “Bandit” Peter the Great “stole from Ukraine its genetic name" Russia ", calling its empire in Latin letters RUSSIA", and the Finno-Ugricians (he calls them Russian) transformed it into "Russia". At the present time, it is time for Ukraine to return the stolen goods, and the Russians "must return to their Finno-Ugric, Turkic foundation."

In the opinion of this political scientist: modern Ukrainians are the true descendants of the ancient Russian population, the true form of the Russian Slavic ethnos, and “the Russian Federation is an artificial entity that should be divided into natural Finno-Ugric, Turkic national states”. After the collapse of the Russian Federation, Ukraine should receive such “organic territories” as the Krasnodar Territory, the Bryansk, Voronezh, Kursk, and Belgorod regions. After that, the “most powerful state of Russia-Ukraine” will be created.

While assessing the current political situation in Ukraine, the same political analyst Soskin, draws the right conclusions: “there is a fierce war between clan-oligarchic families” of Yanukovich and Tymoshenko, for the simple people the victory of one of the clans “will end with increased exploitation from the victorious family”, this actually "scorpion scramble." And the only way to save Ukraine: "the elimination and destruction of clan-oligarchic, financial-corporate groups", the expropriation of their wealth, the nationalization of natural wealth, large enterprises, the development of small and medium-sized businesses in the family form.

Thus, we see how the processes of etching of two dismembered parts of a single Russian superethnos are going on in the modern world.

Going back to the story

Modern Ukrainian historical thought boldly attributed the Russians to the Finno-Ugric world, saying that the Muscovites are a small admixture of Slavic “blood” with the basis of the Finno-Ugrians. And the Ukrainians are direct descendants of the inhabitants of the ancient Tripoli culture - this Eneolithic archaeological culture was spread in the 6th – 3rd millennium BC. er in the Danube-Dnieper interfluve, the greatest flourishing of the Tripoli culture occurred in the period between 5500 and 2750. BC er Next is the chain: the tribes of Trypillya replace the archaeological culture of corded ceramics, then “corded ceramics, Chernoles-Belohrudovskoy archeological culture, after the“ relay race ”goes to nevras (Scythian tribe), the culture of the“ burial fields ”of the Antov times. And there already is Kievan Rus - the state of the “ancient Ukrainians”.

True, it is not clear how it is possible to single out the “Ukrainians” at that time, if the Ruses then lived, this was recorded in all sources of that time, from Russian chronicles to Byzantine and Arabic sources.

We can only talk about the appearance of some differences between the Rus-Russians of South Russia and the North-Eastern regions of Russia, only after the period of the occupation of these lands by the Poles and Litvins. It was at this time that the dialect of a single Russian language, mova, appeared. After the unification of almost all the lands of Russia in the lands of a single state in the 17-18 centuries, the reverse process started, the differences began to disappear again. Therefore, one cannot speak of “Ukrainian history” before the 20 century, when revolutionary reformers created the Ukrainian SSR.

Monument to Mikhail Hrushevsky in Kiev.

Sources of:
Rodin S. Denying the Russian name. Ukrainian chimera. M. 2006.
http://litopys.org.ua/hrushrus/iur.htm
http://runivers.ru/lib/book4289/42920/
http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1423718.html#ixzz1TINa8sbj

Comments

[slan]

Really someone in their right mind, looking at the top picture, but at any other Cossack images, can say that there are depicted Russ?))
Schizophrenia is in the stage of debility.

[KTV]

There are no "russians" - there are Eastern Slavs, Ukrainians and Belarusians, who had their own state of Kievan Rus.

[slan]

Finally a Ukrainian mockery was drawn))
Go feed the pigs, kyyivsky rus))

[KTV]

Others are laughing at here - I've been watching this for a long time. - Solid primordial truth and "historical justice of the Russian myth, oh - the world ..."

[PSih2097]

In which the Vikings ruled

[slan]

They came from Novgorod and then left to Vladimir, Suzdal, and it’s scary to say, in the end, who founded Moscow. Khan Batu came to Kiev, after which he remained Kyev like any other Kyrgyz-Turkic Baki. Jamert, and what other Slavs speak through Y and ghekat? I know only Kazakhs are still such))

[ZHORA]

Here he is a true Russian Viking with dewy Turkic eyes who went to Suzdal, Vladimir united the Ugro-Finns and called the new city the true Slovenian word Moscow))))

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%AE%D1%80%D
1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87_%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D1%81%D0
% BA% D0% B8% D0% B9

[Sandov]

Zhora is not stupid. Be smarter. Well, there are no Ukrainians and it was not the notion of the Anglo-Saxons. We are one people - Russ.

[haron]

Quote: slan

They came from Novgorod and then left to Vladimir, Suzdal, and it’s scary to say, in the end, who founded Moscow.

Well, for about three hundred years they walked, along the way, making Kiev the "Mother of Cities".

[zczczc]

I have not seen the -500 rating yet. Probably, they put non-existent "Russ" on you, I am among them too ...

[KTV]

750 already !!!

- I am glad that on the Muscovite-Srachev’s relatively solid site - my counterposition turned out to be so intelligible for the Ugrians. And then they already started to allow themselves to write such crap ...

[Sandov]

Russ has always been. There were no ukrov. We are one people, the Anglo-Saxons tear us apart and drive wedges between us. Russ be stronger.

[Rashid]

There is nothing surprising in such "historical" research. Recently there were articles that Russians inhabited all of Europe, other peoples are also looking for historical roots in ancient times - already in the Neolithic. Soon they will write that such and such people are direct descendants of dinosaurs or Atlanteans or someone else. After all, the further the times, the less facts and evidence. These are the normal costs of the "growth of national self-awareness" brought about, or rather, rapidly developing just 20 years ago, after the collapse of the USSR.

[chehywed]

Yeah. Personal. For m_oscales only. (For some reason, this text is invalid and the email is not written)

[KTV]

There is genetics that clearly shows everything.

[slan]

And what does she clearly show you?)) For miles you can see an ignoramus who is clear about everything.

[KTV]

Solyanka of different languages ​​called somiy is the most difficult in the world - "Russian language", according to the latest rules of a year and a half ago - free and lively.
- As you want, so develop it, if you want in the Turkic manner, if you want in the Slavic, if you want in the Tatar, if you want in Chinese beyond the Urals and Chechen-Degestan in the Caucasus ...

[KTV]

Mitochondria have their own DNA - they are researching it for the genus, since mitochondria are all received from the mother.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Генофонд_славян

- Russians are Finno-Ugric with an admixture of Slavs and Turks. Russia will disintegrate, Muscovy could be renamed into Grand Tartaria, but there is one quibble among the close Tatar-Mordovians, the faith of Islam, and this will not allow developing the myth of the "Russian world" with Kirill. There are also no prospects in the Caucasian Kaganate.

[dimitriy]

Have you ever read the excerpt?
according to your link:
Nevertheless, despite the heterogeneity of the gene pool, the Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians clearly fall into the same group on the MDS diagram (a way of expressing the phylogenetic distance between organisms), which displays the variability of the Y chromosome (genetic distance), which indicates their genetic relationship and single origin. [7] In this diagram, only populations from the North-European regions of Russia are knocked out of the pan-Slavic group and come closer to the Finnish genetic group, reflecting the process of assimilation of Finno-Ugric tribes by the Slavs, well known from history.

[svvaulsh]

Yes, he came from the ciliates of the shoe.

[Sandov]

KTF - obviously the roof has moved out, that it carries something. Well, read the concept, think, but bring nonsense.

[Sandov]

All of Europe is crammed with Russian artifacts. This can only be denied by the last idiots.

[go_by]

Is hell in the picture above? Very similar.

[slan]

Damn it?)) That is not the most ordinary baptized Busurman, either Serdyuki or Mamluka ..

[chehywed]

Yeah. Personal. For m_oscales only. (For some reason, this text is invalid)

[zczczc]

Need to explain why?

[chehywed]

If the question is addressed to me, then be so kind.

[zczczc]

Because the word "moskal" humiliates both the Russian and the Ukrainian to the same extent.

[chehywed]

My mother is Khokhlushka, and Dad is a Cossack Kuban. It turns out I offended myself twice. I wanted to joke.

[KTV]

The Kuban Cossacks are Ukrainians who settled on those lands after the defeat of the Zaporizhzhya Sich Ekatirina. Kuban is ethno-Ukrainian territory, and the Sea of ​​Azov is inland Ukrainian.

[slan]

Exactly, Khazar! Caspian still forgotten))

[KTV]

I have not forgotten and will not forget. Since I know about the southern border of Muscovy on the border of Rostov-Stalingrad.

[Sandov]

KTF got fucked up, I don’t even want to hear such a crap from the Slavs.

[Sandov]

CTF urine hit in the head. Well, to drive such crap - do not humiliate yourself if you are a Slav.

[zczczc]

Sorry, it's hard to understand who is joking and who ...
I have a father, a Don Cossack.

[chehywed]

Forget it. It's hard to understand what is written in irony or humor.

[KTV]

No, these are different things.

[KTV]

Presumably shown a raid on the Turks

[slan]

Showing runaway Turks? I didn’t guess it myself, thanks.

[KTV]

- Kozaki robbed Turkish cities well, it was like that.

[chehywed]

But at school and at home you weren’t taught that stealing and robbing is bad?

[Dovmont]

Interesting nuance !! The spiritual father of Ukrainian nationalism, Mikhail Grushevsky, did not speak Ukrainian, even he delivered his lectures at the University of Lviv in Russian! Moses, by the way, did not speak Jewish. He communicated with the Jews through his brother Aaron !! Nevertheless, both Moses and Grushevsky were able to fool entire nations by suggesting to one that he was God's chosen, to the other that he was more Russian than the Russians themselves !!!

[chehywed]

Well with Grushevsky more or less clear. About MOISH where is the data from !?

[vlbelugin]

Here's a madhouse with these prospectors.
I believe that the Ukrainians were before the Russians if they find a passport with a trident in the excavations of some century BC.
Have not thought of this yet?

[chehywed]

No, not yet, But the fact that the Proto-Ukrainians taught the Egyptians to grow rice, and the Europeans write quite seriously.

[German]

and finally, Ukraine is the birthplace of elephants! Ukrainian elephants are the most elephant !!!!

[KTV]

http://www.valar.ru/gallery/0811/1313924234_.jpg

- It is a fact

[KTV]

Ukraine is the birthplace of the Slavs-Aryans. This is so by the way - for the Germans.

[Sandov]

Not Ukraine, we are Rus. KTV, we remember one people.

[German]

as for the passport, too, will soon come up with a thought! by the way devils also always draw with tridents .... well, that's right, by the way ....

[chehywed]

And in Ukraine there are normal people laughing at such absurdities. And in Russia there are people who took this nonsense as an axiom. And what is even more interesting is that all this fits perfectly into the Nosovo-Fomenkovsky remake of history.

[slan]

Everything is so, in the Russian Federation such idiots are also enough like in any developing country probably. But only in Ukraine, idiocy is a state ideology and a national idea, as far as the concept of a nation is applicable to this bunch, which are neither externally, nor cultural, nor language .. otherwise they have never been interconnected and all that unites them is ukrodebilizm.

[Isk1984]

I think the purpose of such research is understandable, okay, I think that the majority of the population of Ukraine understands the crazyness of these ideas, well, maybe with the exception of the western part (that the Poles and Germans did there with them, that I don’t know how Russian they like Russian, and how offended) ...

[German]

unfortunately, even in the south and southeast there are enough individuals who do not understand this!

[KTV]

I live in the south of Kievan Rus, so what?

[slan]

Kipchak, that’s all.

[KTV]

I don’t know such a Finno-Ugric word, or is it a prison-Mongolian Russian Matyuk?

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

I’ll start from the end: zapadentsi also know what it is, the tokma of some of them is scribbled by servile arrogance, in the west they are considered to be black servants here they are and their feathers are raised to assert themselves. At the expense of everything else (and for some reason, this can help the rabbinical ears to be seen), this is how to decide who was born first - the right or left side of a person ??? What from that, well, they found something and sho ???? Ukrainians began to live better ???? Or is it better to live in Russia ??? And all the pres (all the rabbinical ears) are inflating? It can be seen that somehow, but the protocols of the Zionian sages are valid.

[baikal79]

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE SLAVANS WILL BE THEN UKRAINIANS WILL BE RUSSIAN DOGS BETWEEN HIMSELF, SLAVANIA DOES NOT HAVE ANY DIFFERENCE !!!! AND WHAT SOMETHING SOMETHING SOMETIMES LIKE SO LIKE !!! THAN WOULD NO CHILD BE CAREFULLY IF I WOULD NOT GO ABOUT THE BORDER !!! RUSSIAN BROTHERS, UKRAINIAN BROTHERS BELARUSIAN BROTHERS TIME TO COMBINE !!! NOT TO PAPER AND THE SPIRIT OF SLAVES OF ORTHODOXY !!!

[German]

correctly!!!!

[Splin]

The answer is very simple. We have a close mentality, we speak almost the same language. Try to be frank with a Frenchman or Italian. They just do not guess. By the way, I was looking in English forums for their opinions on tanks. The British and Americans verbally among themselves bite no less.

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Quote: Splin

By the way, I was looking in English forums for their opinions on tanks. The British and Americans verbally among themselves bite no less.

Well, a demon with them !! Nobody declared war on them globally! Read verbatim TEXTS OF MODERN RABBINS !! Hitler breathes nervously in the stock! But this is in almost every synagogue !!! I am not against the Jews, I am against Jewish fascism !!

[SAVA]

THERE WOULD BE THIS OPINION TO US AND FINISH THIS TALK, BECAUSE EVERYTHING AT THE SIGHT OF A NON-COMMON WEST, EVEN THE READED COMMENTS))))))))))))) BTW))))))))))))))))) ))))

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

The West is not our enemy. We did not declare war on the west (see my post above).

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Right Brother! Busurman among the Slavs bred buzu !! Well, it’s like children they tucked them in and out and chubby !! You are still at war with each other !! Yugov abandoned, and Ukry with the Roses will fight !! Who pits you !!

[Superduck]

Alexander, do you think the provocation was a success, if you simply typed 20 comments, or 2 is enough? Do they give a bonus or is they simply stroking the head?

[APASUS]

An article of pure water is a provocation! Again, an attempt to draw people into squabbles! Too often articles began to appear clearly with a national scent !!!!!!!!!!
For those who doubt their identity, I can tell a couple of portals ............

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Quote: APASUS

For those who doubt their identity, I can tell a couple of portals ............

To those who doubt their identity, I can ... give a shovel to their hands-labor, the brain rules.

[KTV]

There is no "Russian world", as well as some definition of Great Russia, Little Russia and Belorussian - Russia is only one historical Kiev.

[slan]

Write more.

[KTV]

- What are the minuses instructed? ...

And what was in the history of some other Rus besides Kiev ??? - There will be silence, so any balta about this will bring down all the lies of the "Russian world" ...
How does Kirill, the chief KGB piarast of Putin's "Russian world", feel there? And then exactly after after his last visit to Ukraine - he had a heart attack. God all the same marks rogue - with church smuggling of tobacco and alcohol, diamonds, hotel and other banking business in church style ...
The fact is that even the UOC-MP is already autonomous and is increasingly separating from the MP, and even more so from Kirill. And without Saint Kiev, from where Prince Vladimir baptized the primordial and united Kiev Rus, the shrines of Ukrina and monetary influx - the Moscow Patriarchate, so to speak, becomes a stump without family and history. And with this the idea of ​​opposing the MP to Constantinople itself is covered, the idea of ​​the "Russian world" is covered - the spread of which is entrusted to the Moscow Patriarchate. Togo and Cyril dreamed of transferring the center of the church from Muscovy (which had stolen the church earlier in Kiev, history, nation, name) - back to Kiev, in order to prevent his status from being cut ...

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Listen KTV,
you look well-read guy, albeit soooooooooooo smart !!
I’ll tell you one story: One Dohtor was baptized near the church, a passing acquaintance asked: are you not a believer, why are you being baptized? This religion is the experience of my fathers!

So here, before giving out your pseudoscientific (maybe not very pseudo, but ...) you think in whom shit metaesh ??? You are in your father and mother poop spool! Anyway, THIS IS ALL AND YOUR HISTORY! And all this gave you life. (How would you feel if your children would have cheated on you-Mutak supposedly didn’t baptize either or not ... but you nurtured them ...) I myself live in Ukraine, relatives are scattered all over the Russian Federation and so on.

[zczczc]

And he does not understand this. He thinks that he "broke free from the shackles of his ancestors" together with the guides from the State Department, it is true, but he does not know about it. They skillfully put the necessary words and thoughts into his mouth.

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Russia is a community of peoples with one tradition, history, roots, finally ... and Kiev and Moscow and Lvov and Transbaikal. Come home and tell yourself that "My apartment (" Russian world ") does not exist as well as the whole house (" like some definition "..) (strange since when does this person deny the definitions compiled by generations ??) there is only one historical shit! Like that. And the fact that without Muscovy there would have been no USSR and the Ukrainian SSR and other republics and heroes on this land and our fathers and mothers ...

.... and this Pysyunts in the world too !! That's how the fellow did his best and cheated everyone ....

[Sandov]

The origins of Russia in Kievan Rus. We are one people divided by fate. But an even earlier homeland is Great Tartaria. Everything says that.

[KTV]

The truth is also Muscovy.

[alebor]

What are these gifts? This is the land acquired by the sweat and blood of our great ancestors and spreading the proud name of Russia to the 1 / 6 part of the world!
These gifts are not visible on this map, they are located to the west and south and are called: New Russia, Crimea, Slobozhanshchina, Donskoy’s Land lands, Seversk land ...

[Che]

Only in a sick brain could this crap penetrate. How did the amers treat you - a Slav.

[Sandov]

KTV okts, you're not in yourself. Wake up, sweep Amer’s crap out of your eyes.

[Superduck]

Do not feed the trolls!

[KTV]

Very clear lecture form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0b7YHk0ias

- The pleasure of watching ... :)

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Well, you and .... go to the synagogue there in general will say that the Slavs are worse than pigs.
Ksatite in your video is such a typical "Slav" .. ah wey !!!

Well shit .... molotsets.

[mitrich]

KTV
go to the toilet, go poop. That you have mastered the computer, boy, everyone already understood.

[KTV]

Not so, but like this:



- And with such potential - we’ll cut so much ...

[gans]

he is a crest and Africa a crest, a Russian, for example, cannot be a black man or a Georgian, and a Jew can be, also Ukrainians can be any nation. A crest is a person with whom it is impossible to cooperate, from his stupidity and greed he will deceive you sooner or later, refuse all their previous oaths. Ukrainians hate Russians, but really want to be them. I have not met more than one decent Ukrainians and I hope that I will not meet Ukrainians as such

[KTV]

Not according to any textbook of the Russian language - "Russian" is an adjective (what). Ukrainian is a noun (who).
Anyone can be Russian - Mordovitsa, Tatar, Finn, Ethiop Pushkin, Ukrainian Korolev, Jew Nudelman, etc. ...
Ugrians always cheat - they have not yet fulfilled a single signed document. Klasika - Pereyaslovskaya Rada with Khmelnitsky, did so - until they burned the wild Türks of Sich under the command of the Baltic-German nymphomaniac Ekatirina.
"but really want to be them" - :)

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

а KTV, generally an abbreviation ....

[zczczc]

Due to the fact that the Russian adjective, this word carries an integrating meaning - answering the question "what are you?", It makes it possible to become Russian not only a Slav or a Fino-Ugric, if he is in spirit exactly the same as is customary among Russians.

I do not understand what's wrong with that? You prove to everyone that the Finno-Ugrians are complete — deleted — or what? Kapets, this is definitely a nuthouse.

By the way, if the question arose - Slav. I know my family until the 18th century.

[solodova]

+ 5! Anyone can be Russian! Russian is not a collection of gene material, it is a spirit.
Russian can not be a Nazi - he is above this, not without reason they said about vile, evil people - a geek! Out of the clan of Russians, he’s out.

I am glad that minus both Ukrainian and Russian Nazis.

[Sandov]

I am a Slav - I am Russian. My Tatar friend is Russian. Co-worker Adyghe - he is Russian. KTV wake up, be a man.

[Che]

Clearly the roof has moved out, sorry for you.

[Sandov]

KTV stop people powdering their brains. How much can you drive the blizzard well, be smarter. Do not moron.

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Do not skip Hans, from you Goebels rushing. About all you can pour shit. Do not get fooled by this burry bastard. Most (overwhelming) do not see the difference at all (this is artificial !! Well, tell me someday Zapadinshchina drove to Eastern Ukraine ??? Both are sufficiently shitty and good ... HE IS KATSAP, I AM THE HOPE !!! Here’s such a whore kolenkor, and a Russian woman (grandfather too).


..... alone I am a Jew ... (joke)

[Sandov]

Hans got excited, Calm down. There are no Russians; those whom they call ami are Russians. Well, they were processed by the Anglo-Saxons. When that passes I hope.

[KTV]

It is necessary to restore and sell our Rus Belarus with Belarusians and sell the Horde raw material raw material to the neighboring mosaic power - locomotives, turbines, tanks, armored personnel carriers, wheeled tractors, rockets, trucks, ships, diesel engines, ship power plants, airplanes, electronics, displays, radar systems, etc. Finns are gone.

[gans]

Yes, everyone understands that Ukrainians alone can’t come up with anything, I think that they’re not able to invent anything and create anything. Soon the Chinese will build plants for you and will plow civilization for 10 hryvnia and brag about how well you live and how smart you are.

[slan]

In fact, Ukrainians, like any other small people, are very different. Full of smart and talented, here's a Super Kit, for example ..
But the problem is that this is the southern people with all the ensuing problems. And their ambition drove dill propaganda more than the Germans in the 30s. Hence, ukrotragedia is a schizophrenic mismatch between internal expectations and reality turning into aggression towards neighboring more successful peoples. The standard of living in Ukraine in all respects is worse at times relative to all European republics of the former USSR except Moldova. And even many times worse than Kazakhstan. And gas has nothing to do with it. In Ukraine, it is full of natural resources - coal, ore, the same gas is there and not so little. Plus, the Russian Federation continues to be milked through a sacred pipe and the Black Sea fleet. Well and how so proud not to go with reason and what they can do except to scream that they are Aryans from Venus, and the finohugs have stolen everything from them and that’s why they are sucked along with Romanians and Albanians. Here we will not help them, unfortunately. All one will be to blame.

[KTV]

- Yes, everything is fine - soon we will produce a lot of gas. And with the standard of living - you would be more careful in speaking from the circumference of the Moscow ring.

- In Russia there is practically nothing - that and their goal is "Now or never." No planes, no tanks, no turbines, diesels, missiles, ships, gas turbine engines, diesel locomotives, trucks, chemicals, etc.
That incidentally in Kharkov, the T-90 drove in order to improve for example. A billion-dollar diesel contract was signed, some kind of Moscow priest went after celebrating the anniversary of the baptism of Kievan Rus to Luganskteplovoz. Togo Serdyukov was in Kharkov and Nikolaev - there is nothing in Russia and soon the catastrophe of cancellation and disability of the army.
But ship installations, Ukrainian planes, Russian aircraft engines - have already begun to buy in Ukraine for their dependence.

[slan]

According to best friend of Ukraine CIA
For this, no tables are needed; in Ukraine everyone feels like moneybags, all for a gift, starting with beer and ending with girls. Local then for the money can not afford.
Jamert, my beloved probably went to work in finougrams for work, because you are so hyperactive?

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

two balls in history:

Quote: slan

According to best friend of Ukraine CIA

The best friend of Ukraine - Mossad-90% of the supreme zrada have Israeli passports .....

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

yes, I agree with slan, but our leadership is non-native, shorter than Khazaria Xnumx (What is famous for Khazaria find in tyrnete). And you, too, foreigners hold power there.
вот смотри: http://dvdruneta.ru/uploads/posts/2011-05/130624465213260c78d3cedb458a06d90b73e4
d5408f2.jpeg
Pupkin hangs on a person preaching the extermination of the goyim! Well, who is from Ukrov or Rusov dolbanutee ??? Both are good !!

[KTV]

- Gee-gee - this is in Russia all the equipment is still Soviet. And in Ukraine:
- Two new armored personnel carriers.
- Two new tanks, a whole range of level upgrade options.
- The most common ATGMs.
- A whole series of trucks.
- 15 combat modules for armored vehicles.
- The entire spectrum in the world of military transport aircraft.
- Shipbuilding design bureau whose Talwar are not licensed to sell Ugric peoples.
- The whole range of ship power plants.
- Diesel locomotives.
- A diesel engine - a tank, which I especially plan out - is not available to the Ugrians for a promising tank.
- The whole range of helicopter gas turbine engines.
- A row of aircraft engine.
- Shipyards with all technologies, including aircraft carriers.
All this in the country there are no Ugrians.
I think that’s enough, but with Belarusians we’ll cut the grass for the cow in two.
Here is an example of lightweight robotic collaborative systems:
http://www.tetraedr.com/production/production_war/view_doc.php?ID=11&DOC=11
4 & popup = Y

[slan]

Two tanks ?!

[KTV]

Two types of the latest, which is not in Russia.

[KTV]

There is also the newest super-tank, which Serdyukov liked so much, but he will not be accepted into service. It is too expensive for complex commissioning.

[Grifon)))]

super-tank, which is sheathed with plywood sheets)))

[Sandov]

KTV didn’t shake as if from a fever. If there is anything sensible, then we must do together, together we are strength.

[slan]

What expression)) Ukrogordost pinched)) Two of each type, wow. And both on the basis of developments in the modernization of the 80s of the Soviet T-80?)) So soon, these four tanks will deplete with such owners, then the Russian-speaking engineers will finally scatter. How are ukry proud of the achievements of Novorossiya. Yes, the point is that these "russkoyazychnye" if you were not fed with windbag, Bandera would have rolled down below the plinth. And if you hadn't been around them, the eastern regions would have lived no worse than their neighbors in the former USSR.

[KTV]

- Whose mumbled - yours would be silent ... With the closed production of the archaic T-72, which is the best of the T-64.
Would the Ugrians have anything — Serdyukov did not urge Muscovite tank builders to bow and petition to Ukraine for technology — can’t you say? And what is T-72BU (publicly referred to as T-90) in Kharkov now?
- I'm waiting for an answer .....

[slan]

It will be difficult for you to realize this, but at one time the T-80 (T-64), which was also produced in the Russian Federation, lost the T-72 tender and it is not the corrupted mos_kali that are "to blame" for this, but rather the Indians. Although the point is to conduct dialogues with you? You are a loser, you just need to humiliate, otherwise you will not be able to sleep and have a bunch of beets.

[KTV]

- Yes - the T-80 is a T-64 with a gas turbine engine and another chassis.
- T-80 was produced only in Russia.
And now the most important thing - when did the T-72 win some kind of tender ??? - Gee-gee ...

[slan]

Don't ghukay, go yourself in peace to the ukrokrovatku. "Lost the tender" in quotation marks and take it easy, in Russian it means "not chosen". The T-84 did not go far from the T-80. Do you think they choose according to the characteristics of the murzil? When you can save up for a car and go to the car dealerships, you can understand. Although, apparently, it is unlikely ..

[KTV]

There was no mandra - lies. By decree of the Central Committee the main tank in the USSR, the T-64 was adopted. But Tagil sabotaged it and, under the guise of a mobilization tank, began to fuck up the T-64 to 72. Then, Kostenko's t-72 affair was accepted as the second main one, which served as the basis for undermining the ogor-fighting capacity of the union. The worst T-72s were exported, the best T-64 and its variant T-80 - never. \
About the T-84 - there is nothing to pick out something in the nose. T-80UD - this is not 80, but specifically 84. But this index was afraid of political motives - this would be the fourth MBT. And the newest T-84 Birch was finally as the only MBT of the Soviet Union as it was wanted earlier with the T-64. Only the collapse of the union prevented the implementation of these plans. There should already have been no expensive fantasies of Ustinov with the gas turbine engine, or state damage - the T-72.
- I don’t need to write an emotional stupid eerie of a fable. I'm fucking your stupidity. Tank building was and is only Kharkov - before and after the union. And in Muscovy - decline and collapse.

[slan]

Here you opened your eyes to the true history of the East European peoples, not falsified by the Muscovites, and along the way uncovered the conspiracy of Tagil Ugrians in Soviet tank building ...
Personally, I finally found out that both modern Urainian tanks are no different from the T-80UD and that only the Great Ukrainians did not hesitate to proudly call it T-84.
But just, do you seriously think that among the engineers of the Malyshev plant there are a lot of ethnic Ukrainians, and at least someone generally huts there on the move? Or do you think in N. Tagil there are few immigrants from Ukraine? Who do you want to cheat?

[KTV]

- They differ - but I see no reason to write what Object-476, O.478, O.478BE, O.478DU and right up to DN10 are. And this in terms of technology is not in Moscow. I repeat for the special orcs for the third time - Serdyukov calls on the last live Bureau of the UKBTM to cooperate with Ukraine. There is - and there is not, there they can, but there they can not.
In general, there is no bureau in Tagil - a fragment of that particular Kharkov bureau evacuated to the 2nd World War, and what it does is that it remakes and boggles the ideas of the maternal Kiev Rusk Kharkov bureau. The KGBM did not die in acne - and after 15 years the T-90 of anonism started talking - about the tank building crisis in Muscovy.

[Sandov]

How many good submariners from Ukraine we had in the USSR. cool lads, heroes. Where did KTV come from?

[vlbelugin]

Well, if Muscovy is in decline, then why are your girls' garnas in Muscovy standing along the tracks and the lads lads at the construction sites in Muscovy are plowing?

[KTV]

The first - Ugric women are so terrible that even the beauties of their beauties. Although there are many random duresses there.
Vioroe - Ugric in Turkey and Syria.
Third - what would people like you do in general - without cheap prostitutes, would only walk around the same flawed Ugrians of the same sex and infect them further with the "Russian world" in the only possible way.

[zczczc]

Does it bother you that Zaporizhzhya Cossacks have a large admixture of Turkic blood? The Turks were captured from the slain Turks and then married them.

What stuck to the Finno-Ugric people? Precisely "Ugrian women are so scary"?

Broaden your horizons, theory!

[Sandov]

I wonder what kind of beauty. I can’t remember or guess.

[Sandov]

KTV in the end drown in their anger. Well, you can’t do that. Do not be an amer, be a man.

[AleksUkr]

Do not offend a person. He has grief in his family.

[Sandov]

Together we are right, and separately your KTV tanks do not solve anything.

[AleksUkr]

Tinted, or what? Whitened rubber blanched rubber? Well done.

[AleksUkr]

Well done. Correctly noticed.

[APASUS]

When I read all this or it seems to me, but you just rave !!! I would believe all this myself, but I’m at home once a year !!! What kind of infection do you smoke there ??????????? ??????

[zczczc]

Etta, may I ask?

And the "Ugry", as you call us, are not at all involved in the military-technical backlog of Ukraine during the Soviet era? Those. Ukraine has created for itself a parallel military-industrial complex under the USSR, trained engineers for itself, and now, after the "historical" separation, it has something to be proud of, but on the territory of modern Russia there is nothing at all, because our parallel MIC did not germinate. So what?

[zczczc]

And who set the minus? Who does not agree with what I said?
I’m not a showdown, but I want to understand the position - what is wrong here?

[Grifon)))]

Give a scythe or find?)

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

and rockets from Yuzhmash who launched ??? Almost 100% Ukrainian construction. We, too, HOW AND ALL OTHER 70 years built the COUNTRY !!

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

you wander! What will you sell ??? Where are you! Where do you work! Everything lies. Flo Ukraine on a diesel engine battery does not have money! Do you look somewhere with a psychiatric hospital you write ?? Or how old are you 15 - the folder feeds and dresses ....


Well, you annealed!

[Che]

This is a divorce or silver mare, it is impossible to read.

[Sandov]

KTV makes me sick of you. Well you in jo-poo.

[slan]

Curious, is this Jamert?

[KTV]

They will explain to you soon

[cVM]

Yes, our guys’s situation is no better than Ukraine, but I can’t say anything about this stupid article, it’s just a stupid and incomprehensible article, it clearly has propaganda eyesight against the Slavs, we have done very badly over the last desaturation not only to Ukraine but also to the white Russia

[KTV]

Yes - Russia has no friends, it is full of haters, outright enemies and world loneliness. This is a correctly noted external remark, but even this is inside Russia - also a consequence of the policy of Russians as in this article.

[KTV]

What do you think is interesting - when the enemy of Russia, Georgia, will start to occupy the occupied lands? The Georgians have already restored their proportionally small, but very good army and are already building up for you.
You have arranged a celebration of the Olympiad on 08.08.08. For the brothers Christians, and they simply have to organize a celebration of the Olympiad in Sochi.
And America will support them - America is very interested in the Caspian region and will help the Muscovites to shake the fraternal Islamic Caucasus, so far bought for imperial illusions.

[vlbelugin]

Yes, it will not. Even if you send the entire Ukrainian army there to help.

[KTV]

- It’s better to finance the Chechen and other national fronts, or Degestan is already on the verge of civilian.
Better say something else - oil in the world costs 100 bucks of a well-known brand, and the price of 2012 is inscribed in the budget of 135 of the Russian Federation - what will happen? )))

[roninas]

you don’t make people laugh about the Georgian army. No matter how you train, no matter how you arm them, there won’t be any sense. If only the Americans themselves will not go under the guise of Georgians. NOT WARRIORS Georgians, well, believe my experience and my brother’s experience, but this experience has been going on since the late eighties, and has captured all of Transcaucasia. I believe in my own eyes, I don’t need witnesses

[Sandov]

KTV in normal times, you would have thundered in a psychiatric hospital. Such nonsense is impossible to read.

[Grifon)))]

and on your "Square" there is no such inside?

[dimitriy]

Who are we"??? Personally, in my adult life, I have not offended a single Ukrainian or Belarusian, and my friends, too. Are you trying to create guilt in people for what they didn't do? Among a certain public, it is now fashionable and profitable.

[KTV]

We must already start the gas war between Ukraine and Belarus - so that we can help the Georgian Christians, very technically friendly and fraternal, help us in preparation for Sochi.

[slan]

Exactly brotherly Georgians)) Freudian reservation, aryyts?)) Why are Cherkasy and Circassia different in two letters?
So what other European, not to mention Slavic people, giggles? Who apart from the Türks changes everything through Y? Kiev-Kiyiv, Baku-Baki, Kyrgyzstan-Kyrgyzstan? Answer, jamertik.

[KTV]

Finno-Finnish need to be OK, and this one pokes - that means the Turk and writes.

[slan]

Dude, it's five! So Mosk_ali then shake. So who is Ykat, maybe Bulgarians, or Serbs, Czechs? No, not Slovaks, are you our linguist? whom did you boast of without translation translating to understand? Do you know how to pronounce Kazakh pronunciation? Do not you know? So directly and learn, to pronounce the Kazakh G is necessary as the Ukrainian GHE. Do you think by chance? No, by chance only people like you will be born, just for thousands of years there have been common states on the territory of Kazakhstan and Ukraine, but Ukraine has never been! You can go to Kazakhstan to earn money, there will be no language barrier, you are a linguist, you will be overwhelmed by the abundance of cognates. Have you seen what salaries there are? Not like in your Kiyiv.

[KTV]

Maskavites are rabble and Babylon of the world.

And the ancient Slavic state is only Ukrainian-Belarusian Kievan Rus.

[vlbelugin]

Something Belarusians dragged here. I have not seen such people there.

[SAVA]

ZEMLYAK YOU AROUND THE GLANCE ZYHAV !!! ?? FORGOTTEN AS YOUR ANCESTORS MOSCOW HANDED HELP AND RESCUE !! ??? BECAUSE SUCH AS YOU WILL ALREADY BEEN CUT OUT LONG TIME, SO WRITTEN NEIGHBORS IN UKRAINE IS NOT ACCEPTED, DO NOT DISPLAY THE COUNTRY !!!!!!

[KTV]

Here's how such significant Muscovite uncles smack their noses in answers about the strategic loneliness of the Ugrians in the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8OndM97GI8

[Victor]

Listen, smart guy, people like you squander the common national culture of the Slavs. I myself am a Kuban Cossack, my ancestors made an independent choice to serve Great Russia, for which the Kuban and Tersk lands were granted to us. My relatives and I can guttit in Mov, or they can speak pure Russian and no one feels deprived. We do not have an inferiority complex that constantly forces people like you to seek confirmation of their historical worthiness. Our common Russia is GREAT and without such research. Well, as for weapons, honestly, do not make people laugh. Nobody argues, engineering thought in Ukraine did not sleep during the times of the union. Only now, apart from engineering, it would also be necessary to raise production. This is difficult for Russia too, but for Ukraine without outside support it is practically impossible. And here's what else I want to remind you, a Ukrainian is translated from Old Slavonic as a border guard, more of the Krajina-border, and living on the border-Ukrainian. Therefore, they always said "In the Krajina, and not in the Krajina. That is, according to the modern-in Ukraine (i.e. in the border)

[KTV]

- You do not need a wiseacre to interpret the Ugrians about the origin of words to write.
Not service - but literally bought with large donated lands to support blacks in the Caucasus.
And production is not right - in Ukraine it feels much better than Russian. Take the civilian and military transport aircraft industry - as it is only in Ukraine. Design Bureau Tu, Il, Yak - are destroyed, and the Superjet - a disgrace that will revolve the same An-158.

[vlbelugin]

Victor.
He specifically turns on. There are two options:
- escaped from chamber number 6 of the yellow house
- receives a fee from the author of the article

[chehywed]

Victor, your terms are difficult for a fragile child ... in general, for KTV. Try more primitive examples.

[vlbelugin]

Get started. Winter is coming soon. And leave Europe without gas, then get a kick from your hosts.

[KTV]

Europe knows and appreciates - gas state terrorism of Muscovy. They understood this back in 2008.

[Michael]

KTV is an endangered subspecies of the herring, commonly known as the hoofed hoofed clover. A distinctive feature is protruding star-striped ears. When there is the slightest danger, menacingly urinates under him, like a truly titular Ukrainian-Aryan bastard.
(no offense to everyone adequate Slavs Ukrainians. and he’s half a crest himself)

[Grifon)))]

))))))))))))

[slan]

Enough, jamertic. And then people from the outside will think that I really hate all Ukrainian people, but rather the opposite, I have relatives there and there are a lot of Ukrainians. And for hundreds of years, everyone was so mixed up that insulting a neighbor, you insult yourself.
And where did you get the idea that finougres are a shame? These are the Finns, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Russians, finally. Yes, the Kazan Tatars for the most part are more European than Western Ukrainians, let’s say, and certainly much more intelligent than you. Be ashamed to be such a disgrace as you and other militant losers, proud ukry. And here I am with you dropped below the plinth, having entered into a debate with you at your level - a rural envious, who has more thistles near the toilet.

[KTV]

"And where did you get the idea that the Finougrians are a shame? These are Finns, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Russians, finally."
- Who says that? Bulgarians, Ukrainians - have nothing to do with ugro-finals.
"Yes, Kazan Tatars, for the most part, are more European-eating than Western Ukrainians, for example"
Gee-gee - funny ...
"militant losers"
- Exactly - do not climb with your "Russian world" to us.

The Finno-Finns are to you - you would go to the Sami, Estonians, Finns and ask their oppressions for all the good and demand brotherly love from them ....

[slan]

Uncle, are you a fool? (C)
Read the wikipedia about Bulgaria, a monument to which khan there stands in the central squares, read where this khan rode from and where his father remained. about genetics you wrote something there, google. And don't gkk. Go on yourself ..

[KTV]

Hey you urka - filter the bazaar. And teach history:
http://mariuver.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/ugro-finny-istok/
I already wrote about the Bulgarians - about the three parts of the people and the assimilation of the Slavic tribes with the Turks with the formation of the black "Slavs" of the Ilygari.

[slan]

It remains to write about the assimilation of the Pechenegs and other proud peoples. Or did they all fly to Mars, and proud Aryan ukry flew in from Venus?

[vlbelugin]

I’m going to wash my hands and wipe the screen.

[KTV]

- Self-critical. And which hand will you wash more? -)))

[zczczc]

You, KTB, by God, a teapot - no one says that a Ukrainian cannot make equipment, but don’t say that we don’t know how to make it here. In general, use your brains - when they divide us, they bite off territories from us. Even Romania has fooled you on a wave of independence! Under the USSR, they would not even be able to dream.

Here's what Bismarck said about this:
"The power of Russia can be undermined only by the separation of Ukraine from it ... it is necessary not only to tear away, but also to oppose Ukraine to Russia, play off two parts of a single people and watch how a brother will kill a brother. To do this, you only need to find and raise traitors among the national elite and with With their help, change the self-consciousness of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their own kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time. "

So - you are on his account, but we are not.

[Che]

Learn the history better than the prince.

[Sandov]

KTV Well, not a Slav. Worse than Amer honestly.

[SAVA]

OBANNY CIRCUS !!!!!!!!!! AS A STETSKO TO HIM WHAT NOT YOU TELL AND HE IS ALL ONE "DARMA, DARMA, DARMA, DARMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR LIKE BABA PARASKA !!!!!! !!!!!!!))))))))))))) THE WHOLE FORUM HAS BEEN GIVEN HA-HA-HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LEAVE KTV REST) ))))))))))))))))))))

[chehywed]

Hmm, compared to the KTV contagion, ballian is just a useful bifidobacterium. "Subject's brainwashing caused them to be washed out. The experiment continues."

[SAVA]

DON'T TELL HIM AND THAT NOW DURKO WILL JUMP OUT FROM THE "BUDKA" AND BIT !!!

[chehywed]

No, it’s not biting, it’s a lot of shit in slippers.

[KTV]

Bite ahead and your inferiority complex

[zczczc]

What are you guys arguing dear? Who is older - Ukrainians or Russians? :) gee ...

Firstly, we are one people.

Secondly, we all simultaneously appeared on our lands and so long ago that this is unknown to anyone, and the lands are called our original.

Thirdly, in essence the article:
- The seniority of Ukraine makes sense only in the context of Christianization and the creation of statehood on its basis. That is why Christianity was imported from Byzantium. And so all Russian peoples are absolutely equal in seniority, time of origin, etc. Everyone knows what this led to: to a split of society into Old Believers and Christians, to the total removal of the former (who did not manage to escape beyond the Urals), to the destruction of our culture and its substitution by a substitute on a foreign basis. Pros? Yes, there is a plus - monotheism makes it easier to establish control in the territory under its jurisdiction. In approximately this way:
- Do you believe in Christ / CPSU / EP and his / her Grace?
- No.
- We take away life / land / bonuses / tickets to the sanatorium / take away the business.
- And I believe!
- Well done - and we will put you as an official to distribute land plots near Kiev / Moscow.

All. Whoever harbors illusions about the sanctity of Christianity is the method of the state. management, he was them and returned again. I'm not talking about Christ himself - whether he was or not, he is someone else's god, a foreign god, this fact must be respected in any case.

You see, everything is quite concrete and prosaic - if Princess Olga (the first Russian saint, you know, who owe their existence on our territory) didn’t escape to Constantinople (the State Department, in our opinion),

if she hadn’t been baptized (received valuable instructions), she could not have educated the illegitimate son of Prince Svyatoslav from the slave Malusha, her housekeeper, future Prince Vladimir (ultra-liberal), who, having killed his own brother Yaropolk who voluntarily surrendered to him (high in terms of Christian love act) under pressure for a long time liberalized Christianized Western Europe and a sense of impending isolation (we savages were always lagging behind for them) in 988 decided our fate up to the present day - introduced a foreign religion in Russia (read the external administration, because it itself did not understand Christianity , except for the name and the fact that it gives maximum power), and he ordered all dissenters to be killed (once again about the love of Christians for their neighbor).

[zczczc]

Foreign priests who settled in Russia, centuries later, will call him with gratitude for the donated territories of influence - the Red (beautiful) Sun. Krasno Solnyshko was such an example for the Russians that at the age of 18 he raped the Polotsk princess Rogneda in front of her parents. But this was fun for the future liberal, because a little later he raped all of Russia. Already being a convinced Christian, once he, having conquered the fortress of Chersonesos (Korsun was then called), did the following: "And he caught the prince of Korsun and the princess, and took them to his daughter in a tent, and tied the prince and princess at the tent plow and with and in three days he ordered the prince and the princess to kill them, and gave their daughter for the boyar Izhbern with many estates, and in Korsun he made him governor. "

And when even earlier he killed his brother Yaropolk, he immediately "took possession of the widow of the great Kiev prince, a beautiful Greek woman." But this is against the background of everything else, generally a trifle. And here is the rapist himself:

The Russian Orthodox Church considers him the Holy Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince (equal to the apostles, i.e. foreign messengers for Christianization). Think about it - if this rapist is holy to them, then who are they !? He still has the status of patron of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. The killer, rapist and traitor of all Russians, who organized the worst genocide in order to maintain power, is the patron of every police officer in Russia and the entire department. What do you want from the militia / police?

Patriarch Alexy II, June 24.06.2008, 15: "Today in the general church calendar is the day of July 28/XNUMX, when we honor the memory of the Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince Vladimir, the idols of the stepping-stone and the entire Russian land with Holy Baptism, enlightened, is not even highlighted in red and is considered an average holiday. The baptism of Russia, accomplished by the holy prince, the spiritual leader of our people and the hero of our folk epics, became the greatest event in Russian history, without which all the best and the sublime would not have been born in it, which is inextricably linked with the Orthodox faith.I believe that the day of the Grand Duke Vladimir is necessary and celebrate as a great holiday. "

So think about who has ruled us for a thousand years. Against this background - forget all the strife and conversations in the spirit of who is cooler and more correct - Ukrainian or Russian. We still need to understand a lot, rethink and return the truth to the place of the foreign lies introduced and rooted here, and therefore we need to stick together.

[chehywed]

It would be nice to discuss the issue of Christianity in Russia and the influence of religion on society separately.

[zczczc]

So the essence of this influence is the split of the Slavic peoples. And European and Slavic too.

The essence of influence is in the title and body of the article itself.

[chehywed]

Well, what about the Crusades, what do you have to say? They just united Europe. And by the way, the Pope did not declare him against Russia. Would Russia be pagan? Would you exterminate them like hundreds of other nations? Like Zhemaiti. Of course not, but Russia would have more problems.

[zczczc]

The Crusades had nothing to do with Russia except the problem of defending their independence from them.

It is impossible to judge the degree of protection of Russia before and after Christianization with the same categoricalness as about the fact of the violence of Christianization. This is from the category of "what would I have become if I had not been given a bicycle as a gift, would I have been stronger or faster." But it can be judged that Christianization carried obvious harm:
- decrease in population due to the killing of dissent;
- dual faith (the term, by the way);
- supercentralization with a small number and dispersion of settlements is obviously inefficient, because the right to make a decision is usurped in the center, and the duty to protect individual lands still remains in these lands and the lands of neighbors.

One must take into account the strength of the factor of self-identification. How were borders defined before? If the girls from the neighboring village give, but the old people don’t drive with sticks, it means their own. How borders are defined under centralized power is declarative. And so on every point - everything is artificial. Self-identification violated. Recently, Putin gave some villages there, forgot about which state, and along with the population, and be satisfied.

After such excesses, the people are not very eager to defend anything and anyone. Therefore, after the baptism of Rus, power within the country had to be maintained through the boyars through their subordinate vigilantes. And the squad, as you know, is the main reason for the introduction of tribute (taxes) and the force to maintain order on the ground. And when a certain force "from above" appears, then laws become necessary. Laws are written to please the center. Compare with the concept of "Russian Law", which was in force until the XI century. In the limit, the loss of responsibility for ourselves, for our land and those around us has now brought us to shame - how many surveillance cameras have already shown when someone falls with a heart attack or on the subway rails, and no one even shakes him. This is a direct result of all the above processes in fact.

What I’m talking about is the synthetics and violence of everything: from religion to law. This is a shaky foundation for statehood. Centralization strengthens the country only if and in such forms when it is demanded by the population itself. For example, the dissemination of knowledge - plus, education, medicine, etc.

In general, I will never believe that without such artificial centralization there would be no protection of its perimeter.

[chehywed]

I am not an adherent of faith, but it is impossible to deny its positive influence. In Russia in the 19 and the beginning of the 20 century, houses were built for the poor, for workers, canteens for the poor. And they were built by manufacturers and merchants, yesterday serfs. Because morality was also faith. like: power and wealth and poverty from God, (from prison .., everything under God .., God gave .., etc.) Seichas is fashionable to believe. And yesterday’s engineers who became oligarchs about the poor and homeless people do not bother. But why? They’re losers and worthless, They’ll die, they’ll become cleaner. And I earned my own money !!! But I go to church like to work.

[zczczc]

Wait a second, maybe you thought I was an atheist? :) Or what pagan is there? I consider atheists to be disabled in terms of the soul. I believe in God. Moreover, I do not just believe, but I am sure that there is definitely a certain higher power (God). And I have never questioned this confidence.

But also I know for sure and surely that none of us can name this god. And whether he had any incarnation on earth, and in general at least something about him - starting from his appearance and ending with the thought of whether he has a physical embodiment in general. God is the reflection of the people on the problems of living in reality. This is a kind of substrate of moral, ethical and even scientific nature, on which the people build their idea of ​​how to behave and the sciences (about science, it may not be clear - in ancient times there were no research institutes and universities, therefore the phenomena were explained theologically; now this part of religion is completely moved to science, but morality and ethics were and will remain for religion).

And yet - I respect every Orthodox from among the parishioners and some of the priests who wash Christianity from the message laid down in it by foreigners to humility, to violate morality in the native Russian (or other people) way. Those. make of christianity Orthodoxy. But why make something alien to one’s religion from another’s religion, if one can simply not deny what is already created by one’s ancestors, one’s own!

The point is not that Christianity is good or bad, the point is that it is not ours, moreover, together with Christ. I respect Christ, but he is a foreign god. Religion should be only its own, as well as currency, as well as land and language. It is impossible to judge indiscriminately that one religion is worse than another and to pick out negative and positive aspects from different currents and beliefs - the main and only necessary for religion is that it and only it, figuratively speaking, was "invented" and developed by your ancestors. Do not like paganism - sit and invent monotheism based on it. But they themselves and without the help of the "State Department" in the form of Constantinople.

Religion homegrown in every sense is the great power of the unity of the people. No alien adapted religion can compare with it.

[chehywed]

That's all right, but there is something to argue about. I wrote that we need to discuss this topic separately. Do you want to write an article?

[zczczc]

And what will I say new in this article? I know something from different sources - but I'm not a historian, I can’t talk about things that you can’t read anywhere.

Time is needed, a special mood. If I get together, I can write, but it's hard to get together, to be honest :)

But to argue - yes, disputes on basic issues, oddly enough, are much more productive than on private ones.

[Makl]

Wow, what a type, for a long time I haven’t met dillies in Runet ...

Quote: KTV

- Two new armored personnel carriers. - Two new tanks, a whole range of level upgrade options. - The most common ATGMs. - A whole series of trucks. - 15 combat modules for armored vehicles. - The entire spectrum in the world of military transport aircraft. - Shipbuilding design bureau whose Talwar are not licensed to sell Ugrians. - The whole range of ship power plants. - Diesel locomotives. - A diesel engine - a tank, which I especially plan out - is not available to the Ugrians for a promising tank. - The whole range of helicopter gas turbine engines. - A row of aircraft engine. - Shipyards with all technologies, including aircraft carriers.

- Two armored personnel carriers of another Soviet design =) slightly modernized in the time of independence.
- Modernization of the t-80 ki and some kind of far from a new mutant in the style of Israeli tank construction =)
- ATGM ... but apparently did not hear about Cornet
- gee trucks. ... I heard and saw about KAMAZ and their combat versions. I heard about the Urals (recently South Africa introduced a new armored personnel carrier based on the Urals) In the extreme case of Mazy and Belaz, I also have ideas.
And what kind of "Ukrainian trucks"? Bogdany or something =)
- And many of these military transport aircraft built over the past decade? And where are they planning to build them in the next decade? Do you have combat aircraft?
- And this is said by those who sold China the documentation for the SU of the marine version, not to mention the hovercraft.
“How many ships did you build?” M whose main weaponry is planned for the national corvette?
- Diesel locomotives are also building in Russia
- There is diesel in Russia too, I was not surprised again.
- Not only do we have our own gas-turbine engine helicopters, but also Ukrainian ones are being thrown to Russian plants .. And how many helicopters are produced in Ukraine?
- That's exactly what only a number of aircraft engines, designed by the way in Russia.
- But the shipyards with aircraft carrier technologies finished me off. And how many aircraft carriers were produced by the Square (designed by the way in the RSFSR)? And at least corvettes? Well, at least "Ukraine" is completed =) ....?

[KTV]

"Two armored personnel carriers are still Soviet development =) slightly modernized in the independent times."
- Wow, how "slightly". No, this is the BTR-3, which was thoroughly redrawn to the new name, and the new BTR-4. These Muscovites could not degenerate anything new - except to sprinkle a turret to the usual building 80 and reinforce the building with water pipes. The tower, by the way, is without an FCS, and in Ukraine there are 15 remotely controlled combat modules with an FCS.

"modernization of the T-80 ki and some far from new mutant in the style of the Israeli tank building"
- Yeah, the BTR-82 child prodigy, which is bought only by the outcast Venezuela for VEB loans.

"ATGM ... but apparently did not hear about the Cornet"
- I heard about the growing competition with KBP - ATGM Skif, Corsair, Stugna, Barrier, and of course Combat.

"gee trucks. ... I heard and saw about Kamaz and their combat versions. I heard about the Urals (recently South Africa presented a new armored personnel carrier based on the Urals). In an extreme case, I also have an idea about Maz and Belaz."
And what kind of "Ukrainian trucks"? Bogdany or something "
- I heard about Kamaz, it is strange in the USSR they didn’t think of Kamaz as the main truck - why? And Krazy dismantled like hot cakes, I emphasize India.

"And many of these military transport aircraft were built in the past decade? And where are they planning to build them in the next decade? Do you have combat aircraft?"
- Muscovy is absolutely dependent on Ukraine in terms of BTA - we will sell them with raw materials. "

"And this is said by those who sold China the documentation for the SU of the naval version, not to mention the DC on the air cushion."
- This is all Soviet technology. Yes, and why this howl - if the Muscovites Bison can not build them? - They threw Ukraine with the second Greek contract - now Ukraine threw the Muscovites with China. Let China now storm the Amur Bison.

[KTV]

"And how many ships have they built? Whose main armament is planned for the national corvette?"
Now we are selling Muscovites power plants that they do not have and will not have.
And on the corvette, which is much more powerful than the Muscovite Ugro-Murom boat, everything that is not done in Ukraine will be the best European.

"Diesel locomotives are being built in Russia too"
- Yeah, it’s just not clear why the Russian pop goes to Luganskteplovoz to campaign ...

"There is Diesel in Russia, Again, I was not surprised."
- I also heard that Putin came up with a new slogan "import substitution" for the Ugrians - well, he substituted imports to the point that nothing of his own was created, which is logical. And all the locomotives of Muscovy, produced in the USSR, have worked out 2-3 resources. we tried to remotorize them for a more expensive American-Finnish diesel, and this, with huge expenditures on work and adaptation, turned out to be 15% more gluttonous than what it was. And of course, a direct contract for many dozens of Russian Railways with Malyshev - I dreamed ...

"Not only do we have our own helicopter gas turbine engines, we also transfer Ukrainian ones to Russian factories .. And how many helicopters are produced in Ukraine?
- that's just that only a number of aircraft engines designed by the way in Russia. "
- There are no helicopter engines in Muscovy - all are Ukrainian. Who throws what where? And what kind of designed "where-where" aircraft engines are ???

"- But the shipyards with aircraft carrier technologies finished me off. And how many aircraft carriers were produced by the Independent (built by the way in the RSFSR)? And at least corvettes? Well, at least" Ukrainu "was completed =) ....?"
- Now we are building a Chinese Shi Lang for Vladivostok. And Muscovites cannot even build themselves ... Muscovites can only with the permission of Ukraine - sell the Talvar class designed in Nikolaev, they even thought of buying it for themselves. Idazha send it to the Black Sea Fleet - and someone at the Black Sea Fleet will sell you engines for it ???

[chehywed]

"Now we are building a Chinese Shi Lang for Vladivostok" It seems that I do not understand something in this life or I overslept. Ukraine ... for Vladivostok ... Chinese Shi Lang. Is Vladivostok already a country?

[zczczc]

This is our cruiser Varyag, developed in St. Petersburg, but laid down in Nikolaev. They collected it by 67% and scraped it at the price of scrap metal to the Chinese, who tearfully promised to make rides on it. But they deceived and made a combat aircraft carrier.

[KTV]

No - he is not yours ... You were offered of course, but because of your nakedness, you refused him. Yes, in St. Petersburg it was designed, but it was not in "but" Nikolaev - but at the only possible plant that you do not have.
To begin with, I will say that the Ugrians sold Gorshkov to the Indians at a price of $ 1. And Varyag left for 20 mln, exactly after several years as the Severnoye joint-stock bank "dumped" design documentation to Boatsky China for the Chinese conquest of the Far East - for 840 green kasars ...)))
- So, the Chinese can only deceive the Ugrians, but there are no Ukrainians - China, like Muscovy, is absolutely dependent on Ukrainian ship power plants. They also sold the type through Macau, which is not there. Selling the Varangian for 20 Lyamas - we are now earning a lot more on Shi Lan - we are building it, so that it would be bought by the vocal fans of the Karelian birches.

[zczczc]

Our development, in Nikolaev it was simply built:

The official start date for the development of project 1164 is April 20, 1972, when the decision of the Commission under the Council of Ministers of the USSR on military-industrial issues No. 87 was adopted. [1] The tactical and technical task for the preliminary design 1164 Atlant was issued to the Northern Design Bureau in October 1972. Director of the Northern Design Bureau A. K. Perkov (from 1979 - Mutikhin, Valentin Ivanovich) was appointed the chief designer, captain of the 2nd rank A. N. Blinov was the main observer from the Navy [2]. With a total displacement of 10000 tons, it was planned to arm the Project 12 cruiser Bazalt, 8x8 S-300F air defense systems, 2 Osa air defense systems, 2x1 100-mm AK-100, 2x5 TA, ZAK self-defense AK-630. In December 1972, a preliminary design was considered. The technical design was approved on August 21, 1974.

Читай - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0_%D
0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_1164_%C2%AB%D0%90%D1%82%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%
BD% D1% 82% C2% BB

[zczczc]

On April 17, 1958, a decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR adopted a decision to create a plant for the manufacture of heavy vehicles in Kremenchug. The production of heavy trucks was transferred from the Yaroslavl Automobile Plant. The first two KrAZ-222 dump trucks were assembled from imported units and parts and presented on April 10, 1959.

This is the question of the non-involvement of the Ugrians in the advanced achievements of KTV - I do not even want to write the word of Ukrainians, because Ukrainians are not evil as you are, certainly.

[KTV]

I repeat this before going to bed - and take them to the armory to replace the lame and incomprehensible KAMAZ. Ukrspetsexport will make a special inscription on its hood for your ego - "kaaankrety Ugra, but they did not know ..."
What parties of KRAZ go to Iraq, Egypt, India, Macedonia, Mexico, Vietnam, and the Ugrians are sorted like hot cakes too.
Go to the company’s website - take a look at the new lenoka, aimed at completely crowding out the kinky OKI - KAMAZ.

[zczczc]

And this is what is written: "The production of heavy trucks was transferred from the Yaroslavl Automobile Plant."?

Submitted! Not sold, but transferred.
You are some kind of enemy, by golly. Stupid foe. You were given machines, equipment, technologies, trained to do, and you are shaking your independence here - it’s enough.

[Makl]

Quote: KTV

And production is not right - in Ukraine it feels much better than Russian.

"The myth of the bins of the Motherland" to help you

Quote: KTV

Take the civilian and military transport aircraft industry - as it is only in Ukraine.

And what would he do without Russian money and Russian participation?

Quote: KTV

KB Tu, Il, Yak - destroyed,

Yeah, Il-114 Il-76MD-90, MTS, Yak-130, Modifications Tu-204, The same MS-21 (developed by Yak and Irkut) say the opposite.

Quote: KTV

and the Superjet is a disgrace that the same An-158 will make.

Half of the Russian components and with export potential For the most part, only to Russia, provided that it will be built in it ...

And all this against the background of the absence in Ukraine of combat aircraft and all helicopter engineering and design. .....

[KTV]

"Yeah, Il-114 Il-76MD-90, MTS, Yak-130, Tu-204 modifications, the same MS-21 (developed by Yak and Irkut) say otherwise."

Just one thing.
Uzbek-American IL-114 is closed at TAPOiCh. 76MD90 is the remotorization of the 76th, and 76 is already outdated. MTS will be An-178. Yak-130 with the Ukrainian engine, like the best Chinese L-15. The Tu-204 is closed, although the last gasp sounded that Tu wants to certify the 204CM in two years to the production of the MS-21. MS-21 - everything is not so simple there, as well as with the SNF bullshit.

[KTV]

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/440891.html

[KTV]

Here you can see the IL-476, MTA, SSZh and something else:




There is no BTA choice in Muscovy - and it can be put in any position for Finnish pride, since 92, the first transport aircraft purchased in the Air Force is certainly Ukrainian:


- Everything high-tech among the Ugrians can only be Ukrainian in terms of genetics. Ugrians can not do because of limitation.
Inaccessible to the Ugrians.

[KTV]

Just the good news:

http://alibaba-09.livejournal.com/346115.html

http://amonov.livejournal.com/194211.html

[Gur]

I read the comments of KTV ... oh, how he reminded me of the Ukrainians who served with me in the USSR, almost before the collapse .. How stupid, there is nothing unjustified by their exclusivity, they boasted, how they got with their talk about the difficult fate of Ukraine nursing almost not the whole USSR. We got it by talking about Ukraine's self-sufficiency. In fact, the deeds showed everything in a different light. And this true aria is a Slavist ... with fat instead of a brain, to the same place. This supposedly Slavic aria reminds me more of a Turkmen, saying that they were the first to invent the wheel and writing. Tell me KTV did you live better ??? you as exclusively "slovens" from top to toe .. have kept the best that you have left of the USSR ?? You say you will extract gas .. are you sure that this gas is for you ... are you sure that you can buy such gas for yourself ?? You say Ugrians .. Yes, these Ugrians and Izhi take off pulled your ancestors from under the Poles, did not allow the Turks to cut them out at the root. I remembered the Pereyaslav agreement .. but I remember Ukraine's betrayal towards Russia and sow the day the betrayal continues. I liked the map ... especially the inscriptions .. "gifts"))))) For such gifts the people had to lay down their lives .. and the United States to for your information .. when the Russians secured Kamchatka and Sakhalin as a state was not ..

[KTV]

"Ukraine is feeding almost the entire USSR"

- Yes, an attempt to refute this was called "import substitution" by Putin 10 years ago. Like - we will not feed them and let them die of hunger, and we will create our own ... The Ura-Ugrians shouted and praised the Chekist - only nothing was created and even more were destroyed, then a hundred were presented to the Ugro-Turks by the union.
Time has passed, nothing has been done by the Ugrians - and now there is a new, only already hidden slogan - "all or nothing" with the Russian world and the gas wars. Only the lesson will not succeed - this, according to all opinion polls, only increases the hatred of Muscovy.
In general, I believe that for a long time it is necessary to deal with this voice-activated Ugro-Finnish brotherhood. For a long time they need to indicate their place. - And they can’t get anywhere, the Muscovites have two options - to buy in Ukraine, or to ruin the gifts of the territories of Ermak, China, Horde and Getmanov.
Import substitution is already over, Muscovites are buying in the front position everything they are dependent on, for money, at market prices and in turn for others.

[Grifon)))]

))))))))))), funny

[Gur]

Well, yes .. some Ugric people .. corvee at the construction sites of the Russian Federation work out from a good life .. others .. in the elbow position on bread, they earn money at market prices ..
And I see you learn fast ... no longer make mistakes ... I didn’t mention about the USA partners ... so you’ll see about the rest

[gans]

I don’t understand why our government is so keen to cooperate with these ghouls of Ukrainians, because the hedgehog understands that if the world breaks out, these Khmyrs will all go to the police. joint projects to the detriment of Russia and how it all ended we all know perfectly

[KTV]

I have already explained that the people are adjective Russian rabble of Finno-Finns, Turks, Slavs, etc. of the Balto-Germans with Caucasians and Chinese Jews.
Yes, it ended - Georgia is the number two country in Europe in terms of economic growth and anti-corruption. And the brothers, Orthodox Georgians, will cut out the eel from the occupation.
They want to "cooperate" so to speak - because there is nothing in Muscovy and there is a massive write-off of everything Soviet. Agonizing Muscovy is shorter within the boundaries of the fragments of the empire.

[Vidgit]

This is not your blog by chance.
http://kotobood.livejournal.com/109528.html
http://kotobood.livejournal.com/109692.html
http://kotobood.livejournal.com/109244.html
By dates and compilation it seems yes and nickname took abbreviated
I didn’t think, I didn’t think that you are the State Department’s Troll or whose you are there.

[Konstantm]

Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, depicted at the beginning, were engaged in one-robbery, and so they fed. Catherine put them on the ground, so that they worked for their own good and Russia.

[svvaulsh]

Boys! Do not hear what dibil KTV! He is such a Ukrainian, like he was a racket!

[zczczc]

That same time, at me navit kit_vid yogo mov it is pleasant to marvel at the monitor ...
:)

[Staff_]

These are not my words, these are the words of Igor Malyshev, unfortunately not familiar to me.

"When my great-grandfather, a hereditary Zaporozhye Cossack, having learned that now we are Ukrainians and even a country like this, he gathered the whole family, and ordered to convey to the descendants (fortunately, we have passed it on): We are a Cossack clan, we cannot do this. And we are from the Russian family, we are from Zaporozhye. And I shob this in the house more ne chuv. I will push usih. And I could.
So dear gentlemen ukry, you do not need fairy tales about two people, or two nations. It is utter. Russia has a lot of Ukraine, but for some reason it’s Western, it has shown off so much that it needs independence, from its own, and rumor has turned into a language. And he calls himself a state. Oh sorry the great-grandfather did not live, although maybe this is for the best. He was severely untruthful, and the Communists.
My great-grandfather, had an estate in the village of Sabovka near Lugansk. Named saber from the hetman, and diploma. All this was stolen, or destroyed by the Bolsheviks, the estate was taken. And all this because he decided, and yet he cleaned the snout of Parkhomenko, only because this peasant called himself a Cossack. At the same time, Voroshilov was present, and a platoon of soldiers. Which then returned, and yet dispossessed.
Only the saber is said to have been hidden somewhere. Eh, I would find .... "

[zczczc]

Eh, now I would like your great-grandfather! The people would be stronger in spirit and deed.

[SAVA]

THE NKVEDISTS DID ALL OF THEIRS AND BROWNED OUT INTO THE RATTLE SMALL, STANDING UP SECRETLY, THAT ALREADY ALREADY TALKING ALREADY TALKING AND WELL, THE FOLLOWING WILL BE DARKER AND WISE !!

[Grifon)))]

Yes, because the West is more oriented, served in front of them.

[Garfield]

Article shit, discussion shit, crumbling on the site - HALF
The Ukrainians need to do military aviation, although they almost missed it, develop tank building, and not slow down, the Russians finally learn how to launch maces and satellites and try to make a normal tank, and not get hung up on the T-90.

[Garfield]

Article shit, discussion shit, crumbling on the site - MORNING Wink
The Ukrainians need to do military aviation, although they almost missed it, develop tank building further (Oplot is good!), And not slow down, the Russians finally learn to launch maces and satellites and try to make a normal tank, and not get hung up on the T-90.

[Pol]

Yes ... I read it all with tears in my eyes, really from laughter !!!
KTV - send your comments to Zadornov. I’ve spread such bullshit, just PPC

[Eugene]

Well said in the movie "Inhabited Island": Why do you hate each other? -Because we have a common story!

[zczczc]

Duc has long been known that brothers or relatives, if they quarrel, then for a long time and seriously. And strangers are often easier to forgive each other. Because there are no high expectations.

Remember Taras Bulba - he killed his son, did not forgive. If there wasn’t a son, maybe he regretted it, attributed it to cowardice, etc.

[ZHORA]

We are Russians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql3wF9Xg1mI

[makrus]

Well, the new Russian holidays also smile INDEPENDENCE DAY DAY OF CONSENT