Production of licensed "Lynx" under threat of failure

35
Production of licensed "Lynx" under threat of failure


The decision of the Ministry of Defense of Russia on the production on the basis of domestic enterprises of the Italian armored vehicles LMV M65, which must come to the troops under the brand name “Lynx”, is under threat of disruption. By the end of 2020 of the year, according to the state defense program sounded by the Ministry of Defense, 2 should be purchased by thousands of such machines, which the military department preferred to the Russian analogue "Tiger".

Carmaker KamAZ, which actually was supposed to produce license armored cars, refused to further participate in the project. Experts believe that the adoption of such a decision is connected with foreign component parts for which the Russian plant does not have and, obviously, will not have a license.

This is what media representatives were told at the KamAZ plant: “We carried out a pilot installation of the 10 IVECO exclusively from Italian vehicle sets, conducted factory tests of them and handed them over to the Ministry of Defense. Further participation of the KamAZ enterprise in this program is not provided. ”

The main components of the armored car IVECO LMV M65, not belonging to the Italian production.
Ceramic armor - made in Germany.
The basis of armor - materials made in Holland.
Engine - designed in the USA.

“Obviously, IVECO is not able to transfer the rights to manufacture these units, given the fact that they simply do not belong to it, and Russia has no agreement on military-technical close cooperation with the United States,” said a source in the military-industrial complex of Russia.

Ruslan Pukhov, head of the AST Center, believes that if unlicensed production of armored vehicles began, the US State Department could block the sale of KamAZ trucks in Western Europe and North America. In addition, the Russian armed forces would be completely dependent on the supply of spare parts by American enterprises. “The buyer of imported weapons must always be ready for the fact that he will be prepared to play the role of a player dependent on the political situation. Venezuelans, Pakistanis, Indians, Thai people are well acquainted with this situation, ”Pukhov recalled during his interview.

Today, SKD licensed "Lynx" trying to run on one of the military repair plants in the city of Bryansk. Recall that in October 2010, Vladimir Popovkin, First Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia, arriving at the Euronaval-2010 exhibition in Paris, announced that a joint venture had been established in the territory of our state to manufacture armored vehicles of the Italian company IVECO. By the end of 2011, the first car was supposed to be released.

Anatoly Serdyukov himself, the head of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, stressed that in Russia it is extremely necessary to establish not only joint production of armored vehicles, but also to adapt armored cars to Russian conditions. Thus, the Ministry of Defense once again emphasized the choice of Italian technology instead of the Russian armored car "Tiger".

IVECO machines are planned in the future to provide the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB. At the machine-building plant in Arzamas, where they produce the domestic analogue of the Italian armored vehicle “Tiger”, they are perplexed about this decision, since they do not see any significant advantages in the Italian IVECO LMV M65. According to an official source from a Russian company, "Tigers" significantly outperform IVECO in terms of basic protection indicators for crew members and maneuverability, and their cost is three times less.

The cost of the LMV M65 can be judged by the customs declaration, according to which one US-made vehicle kit cost the KamAZ automobile plant 12 million rubles. For comparison, the Russian "Tiger" costs about 5 million rubles. Experts also argue that for the funds spent on the purchase of Italian armored vehicles, it would be possible to modernize domestic armored vehicles and to support the domestic defense industry in a similar way.

Experts put forward their own version of the choice of foreign technology and the rejection of the production of domestic samples. Some are confident that in this way Russia wants to attract Western partners. Others suggest that the whole thing is in cost, since for imported LMV in 300 thousand euros will give a significant pullback. But at the same time, all experts are confident that with a similar attitude to the production of domestic types of military equipment, the Russian defense industry will be on the verge of survival and the Ministry of Defense will be able to dictate its conditions to manufacturers and not only for the quality of the products produced, but also for their cost.

Representatives of IVECO, in order to prove the high quality of their car, argue that over ten years of operation in combat conditions, the enemy had only undermined ten of these machines. It is also noted that the only case when soldiers were killed was recorded on 26 of June of this year, when an armored car from the Spanish army, which was in front of a convoy that was conducting a routine inspection of the area in close proximity to the Spanish military base in the Afghan province of Badghis action movies. Despite the fact that the power of the side explosion was equal to 120 kilograms in TNT equivalent, only 2 people died. Still 3 received injuries of varying severity, but remained alive.
35 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    18 August 2011 08: 13
    and when did they make a deal no one knew about it?
  2. +1
    18 August 2011 11: 06
    The contract for the supply of Italians is clearly corrupt. The article also talks about the reasons for signing it - a solid rollback and obviously not greyhound puppies !!!!
    The field worker will put pressure on subordinate rembases to assemble these tins because giving honestly stolen pain hurts to tears ....
    It is clear what qualities they will be?
    The state policy on the purchase of foreign weapons for various purposes will continue to weaken its defense industry.
    ALL THE BANKRUPTED PRODUCTION SHOULD BE BUY FOR SMALL MONEY, AND SELL FOR GREATER - WELL GOOD FOR YOURSELF ....
  3. MaxArt
    +11
    18 August 2011 11: 11
    I am very touched by the statements of Italians. It would be more detailed to find out where they fought so actively, how armored vehicles were used, etc. If they stood in warehouses - ten cars in ten years to lose is excusable. But against a serious landmine ... have mercy, no one can resist.

    Raisins, of course - 120 kilogram (!!!!) TNT. If such a mass is blown up under an armored vehicle, it will become another artificial satellite of the Earth. With three living and two dead astronauts. If they exploded "somewhere nearby" - then why talk about it, well, it should be a shame.

    They lie - they don’t blush, chatting - don’t toss the bags!

    On the subject: our "bosses" are, as always, "patriotic". Let's hope the order fails.
    1. 0
      18 August 2011 11: 26
      I agree that the question about 120 kg of trotyl is interesting. Such a mass correctly laid on the road with a directional explosion tears off a tower in a tank or throws out a slider depending on where it jerked.
      However, one should not forget that the force of the blast wave is inversely proportional to the distance to the fourth power. In other words, if the blast was 3-4 meters, then the Italians' claims may be true.
      1. MaxArt
        +5
        18 August 2011 11: 49
        Yes, and at the same time the explosion was directed, and clearly directed in the opposite direction. Nobody piles TNT on the sidelines; high-explosive shells are used to undermine equipment. Well, how many shells need to be loaded at the same time?

        This is what happens when a single land mine is blown up.
        1. 0
          18 August 2011 12: 09
          Interesting photo. The funnel apparently did not hit the frame.
          By the way, it’s not a fact that the crew died - the armored capsule seemed to remain intact.
          1. MaxArt
            0
            18 August 2011 13: 34
            Yes, where is it intact, if the driver’s door is torn down, and the steering column is somewhere below the waist - the front part is pressed with meat.
            1. Superduck
              0
              18 August 2011 13: 38
              the door could be cut during the evacuation of the crew or bodies
              1. MaxArt
                +1
                18 August 2011 14: 49
                Yes, everything can be. But in my opinion, with such an explosion, only the bodies should be picked out. I would like to look at the Italian "120 kilograms" in such a situation. There are many videos on the Internet with explosions on landmines of American HMMWV. For almost any explosion, the doors open for some reason. For example (forgive me for posting such material)

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mETXpf_MyM
                1. Superduck
                  +2
                  18 August 2011 15: 07
                  Not for some reason, this is an attempt to compensate for excess pressure inside the cabin when struck by a grenade launcher or a land mine, and also allows the wounded crew to leave the car faster.
                  1. MaxArt
                    0
                    18 August 2011 19: 19
                    Do not consider my words as an attempt to argue, there is nothing to argue about. But, again, when watching videos of HMMWV detonations, the crew often flies out of the car by 10-15 meters. All this I mean is that in the photo the crew certainly did not survive, and "120 kilograms" - thick noodles, which, it seems, our field furniture believed believed.
                    1. Superduck
                      0
                      19 August 2011 13: 36
                      Yes, 120 kilos is certainly a marketing move. After all, agree that we also survived this explosion without harming our health, it all depends on the distance :-)
                      Already wrote that it seems this car was tested for undermining. Of course, 120 kilos under the bottom is a good way to send a tank into space. And even if Russia doesn’t have a standard for mine stability, you can take NATO problems, and check with a 125mm landmine explosion (as one of the most common options for equipping partisan landmines), a standard anti-tank mine under the wheel, an anti-personnel mine under the engine, 2-3 land mines at a distance of 2 meters, the assembly was well fired with RPG-7 (there the military should know which ammunition is most often used) and / or Flies, firing from the PKK and AK47 from a distance of 100 meters. Well, this is enough to cover 90% of attacks on the car.
                      Well, 120kg is of course isolated cases, you should not focus on such power for a light car.
  4. +1
    18 August 2011 14: 54
    MaxArtWell, maybe there were special 120kg of TNT-- the western version is multicultural and humane. wink
  5. 0
    18 August 2011 15: 15
    MaxArt, but how many such videos of the creatures the Czechs exhibited. but no MRAR can be saved from such an explosion.
    1. MaxArt
      0
      18 August 2011 15: 35
      That is yes. Simply speaking about armored vehicles, there is a lot of information from Iraq. Americans actively used, Iraqis actively blew up. We are more and more exposed to fire by the ancient BMP-1 or T-64.
      1. Superduck
        +3
        18 August 2011 16: 05
        Yeah, and while we are getting clever, the guys ride on UAZs and when asked about ceramic armor and mine protection seats they just think that the man went through the brakes.
  6. Engineer
    -6
    18 August 2011 16: 02
    And that everyone was busy buying foreign equipment.

    Iveco saw at the exhibition, in terms of comfort it is comparable to an average foreign car (maybe even higher), Army Army -removed- did not stand nearby.

    War is of course war, but 99% of officers and soldiers see war only in films. So maybe they serve better on normal, comfortable cars?
    And in Mistral, surely everything is controlled with buttons and latches with warm water and a bidet.
    1. +5
      18 August 2011 16: 33
      "It's better to fight in our cars, but to serve in foreign ones. There is where to put junk, watch a video, something else ..." Nikolai Popov, the creator of the T-80 tank.
      They wanted to put comfortable armchairs on the TIGER and patch up it under a foreign car, but military equipment, not civilian, said our mines of defense.
      Here it is a matter of kickbacks and create pressure on the defense industry to reduce prices!
    2. +2
      18 August 2011 20: 02
      Yes, these high-ranking officials simply didn’t get involved, the scammers just got it. Here, apparently, the scam with Iveco ended. grannies leaked? they wanted to pull off the military-industrial complex, but it couldn’t be otherwise - normal technical specifications, for protection, comfort, engine + normal military representatives, etc.
  7. Leo848
    +3
    18 August 2011 17: 19
    The state should provide its army with military equipment, because protecting the country is a state occupation. And then they created, damn it, a market inside the country, they bargain, who owes what, what for the strange word, where is the state order it’s not enough, then someone didn’t deliver something, then there isn’t enough capacity. And before that, I thought ... Creating such a market in the defense industry is a direct step towards inter-agency corruption.
  8. Felix
    0
    18 August 2011 18: 17
    Guys, I Ah ... really, you can’t do anything terrible for NATO, you won’t be able to, call me!
  9. +4
    18 August 2011 19: 58
    Disruption of the assembly of "Rysey", a unique opportunity for our military-industrial complex to once again fight for their "Tigers". And I'd like to hope that our manufacturers will not miss this chance. And at the same time, they will mentally finalize "Tiger" in such a way that neither Taburetkin nor anyone else could continue to mock their own country and its people and its technology.
  10. +3
    18 August 2011 20: 23
    Victor, but apparently everything else they liked, maybe the Germans or the Jews, and the Italians fell out of love. Yes, and the tiger is still SPM, but for the army of the wolf it’s handy.
    1. 0
      18 August 2011 20: 45
      datur I agree about the Wolf. But it seems to me that Taburetkin and company are starting to get scared on the sly. None of them expected such a violent response from the military-industrial complex and ordinary people, who are offended for the state. By the way, their analysts constantly rummage through sites like ours in order to understand when the boiling point will be reached, in order to reformat themselves in time under "their own", who have seen their eyes and care for the country.
      1. WADIM
        -5
        19 August 2011 13: 21
        By the way, their analysts constantly rummage through sites like ours in order to understand when the boiling point will be reached, in order to reformat themselves in time under "their own", who have seen the light and care for the country .......
        Are you by any chance not one of them? ))))
        1. +2
          19 August 2011 18: 08
          Of course, I, like many who have been communicating on the site for a long time, conduct my analytics, and unfortunately it shows that the number of talkers like you is constantly growing.
  11. Garfield
    0
    18 August 2011 20: 34
    Here is an interesting opinion about the rearmament program in general http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2011-07-01/8_fail.html
  12. +1
    18 August 2011 20: 42
    Actually, when you look at what remains of the car after the explosion of 10 kg of TNT (in equivalent), then 120 kg of TNT is terrifying. Here and the armored personnel carrier will be smashed into gears and separately flying wheels, and only an armored car ... Only pieces of metal should have remained from it, with a close explosion, and with an explosion of 100 meters and further, it is indecent to talk about the survival of the crew. And in "Zhiguli" then you can survive
  13. slan
    -1
    18 August 2011 20: 55
    Oh, who in their right mind would start collecting it under a license?)) There is reason to be proud of our MO- they are learning from the Chinese, got samples, got acquainted, though not with all, of the technology ..
  14. -1
    18 August 2011 21: 10
    slan, yes, if it were just a scam and a shameful (at our expense) with an idiotic ending or not yet ahead in front of you?
  15. -1
    18 August 2011 22: 04
    http://twower.livejournal.com/ НУ НАКОНЕЦ ДОЖДАЛИСЬ

    In September, preliminary tests of the Wolf armored car range are completed, after which state tests of the new armored car will begin.
    “The machines will be finalized during the tests together with the customer’s representatives from the Ministry of Defense,” explained the representative of the Military Industrial Company (VPK is part of the Russian Machines holding owned by Oleg Deripaska) Sergey Suvorov, “in a year it will be accepted the decision to adopt the Wolf.
    According to Suvorov, many law enforcement agencies and defense enterprises have an interest in these machines, because the Wolf is suitable for mounting weapons systems.
    Not dropped from the accounts and armored cars "Tiger". Several dozen Tigers-M are already in the troops in the North Caucasus.
    Specialists of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau presented a new version of the Tiger, in which the latest anti-tank missile system Kornet-D was mounted.
    “Such complexes will not fit into IVECO,” say the defense industry.
    Well, such statements can still not be made, due to their unreliability:
    the layout of the car is similar to Iveco, but there is a real 6th class of protection. Not like where rubber tabs stand between the armor panels, it's not like a bullet - an arrow will fly by! In our 6th grade this is not.
    “Iveco” was fired upon by our specialists back in March 2011 in a wide variety of projections and no holes were found in it.
  16. +2
    18 August 2011 22: 04
    The decision of the Russian Ministry of Defense on the production of Italian armored vehicles LMV M65 based on domestic enterprises, which should enter the troops under the Lynx brand, is in danger of collapse.

    And well, what happened.
    Is it really impossible to arrange the release of their armor plates.
    In the war of 08.08.08, in the form of a trophy, we got the Hammers, cars with electronics for controlling the battle, they had new armor. Under STALINE, the TIGERS with the new ceramic armor would already be in series production.
    Leo848,
    They didn’t create a market, but made the BAZAR from the state, in this market they sell the army, idiocy.
    1. Superduck
      -1
      19 August 2011 13: 41
      It seemed that there was no ceramic armor on the Humvee, and even if it exists, with free delivery, mericosas usually drive cars to the point of decommissioning and not the best trim levels.
  17. 0
    18 August 2011 22: 06
    It is a good chance for the VIC to push through their cars, especially since now the YaMZ diesel is being made for the Tiger family of cars. The "Tiger 6a" machine was also developed on its own initiative, exceeding the requirements of GOST for the 6th degree of protection. At the show on June 10, she was very interested in Serdyukov ...
  18. andreypilot
    0
    19 August 2011 15: 44
    Yes, you need to drive the "stool" - that's all ... after what happened to the army warehouses, any minister in the West would have resigned long ago, but in China they would have been judged for sure .. Now, when the Ministry of Defense has gone with such contracts, a good rollback will work .. And with licenses, the Chinese are copying our equipment with might and main, and we are silent in a rag ..
  19. Batthutlewly
    0
    25 August 2011 11: 14
    Hi,

    If you have nothing to do, then visit http://gav-gav.info, where there are a lot of entertainment and photo jokes.
    Mostly they like comics from films and demotivators on a delicate topic, go to http://gav-gav.info and you're pretty good.