Military Review

In orbit, plasma engines of a new generation of Russian production

114
Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology (State University) in its the official website reports that in the near-earth orbit new plasma engines of domestic production began their work. The development of the spacecraft was carried out by the Information Satellite Systems Company named after Academician Reshetnev, while the plasma engines of the Hall type of a new generation were created by specialists of the SSC FSUE “Keldysh Center”.

In orbit, plasma engines of a new generation of Russian production


Professor Oleg Gorshkov became the head of the group for creating engines of a new generation. The work was carried out almost 10 years and ended with the successful launch and stable operation of the engines in orbit.

What are Hall type plasma engines for spacecraft? These are electromagnetic class motors with an external magnetic field. The key role in them is given to the closed electron drift. Hall engines operate on the principle of creating an electric field of high potentials in a plasma. Russia is the world leader in the creation of Hall engines.

A detailed description of the principles of operation of engines of this type can be found in the monograph O.A.Gorshkova, V.A. Muravleva and A.A. Shagayda "Hall and ion plasma engines for spacecraft" (M .: Mashinostroenie, 2008).

Russia has accumulated vast experience in creating engines of this type. In the distant 1971 year, Hall-type engines passed the first tests. Now, Russian scientists have created a new generation of plasma engine, featuring high efficiency, reliability and efficiency.
114 comments
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  1. saag
    saag 2 November 2014 09: 13
    +3
    The new engine is the SPD-270 or something, the SPD-100 cannot be called a new one.
    1. askort154
      askort154 2 November 2014 09: 21
      +16
      saag ...... The new engine is the SPD-270 or something, the SPD-100 cannot be called new.


      I totally agree with you! SPD-100 is on my cottage tractor.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 2 November 2014 14: 41
        +4
        Quote: askort154
        I totally agree with you! SPD-100 is on my cottage tractor.

        Is it that you use the Express-MD1 satellite to the tractor place in the country, or where did you stick to the SPD-100 tractor? Https: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stationary_plasma_engine#mediaviewer/Fil
        e: Russian_stationary_plasma_thrusters.jpg
      2. Andrey Skokovsky
        Andrey Skokovsky 2 November 2014 14: 49
        -16
        some really cheap cars are facing SUCH a scientific center .... I hope a little old photo
        1. Shkodnick
          Shkodnick 2 November 2014 18: 23
          +7
          and the building itself is it really ok ??? a year ago I drove past it every day, if the building still went wherever, but the fence on the left of the building of 80 meters is tilted 30 degrees, despite the fact that it is reinforced concrete, but the cameras stand ...
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 2 November 2014 22: 54
            +1
            There are all metal fences. I see it every day.
            1. Shkodnick
              Shkodnick 4 November 2014 18: 53
              0
              and you turn on the 3rd Likhachevsky, and look at him on the right ...
        2. Vlad5307
          Vlad5307 2 November 2014 19: 49
          +23
          so our liberal government appreciates the work of scientists who, unlike ministers and those close to them, do not cut the budget, calling it development, but really work for the good of the country !!! hi
        3. Normal
          Normal 2 November 2014 20: 46
          +16
          Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
          some really cheap cars

          Well, of course, in Moscow, everyone on the Mersey, BMW and Cayenne cut. Yeah ...

          Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
          in front of such a scientific center.

          So this is not Gazprom, not the Duma and not the Presidential Administration.
          1. Andrey Skokovsky
            Andrey Skokovsky 3 November 2014 12: 51
            +5
            Quote: Normal
            Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
            some really cheap cars

            Well, of course, in Moscow, everyone on the Mersey, BMW and Cayenne cut. Yeah ...
            Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
            in front of such a scientific center.

            So this is not Gazprom, not the Duma and not the Presidential Administration.

            where does Moscow ??? probably Muscovites react like that, it just seems to me that scientists developing such devices should get more money for their work and it doesn’t matter what city it is ...
            1. smart Fox
              smart Fox 3 November 2014 18: 04
              +4
              Those who love loot, they work in commerce, and here people work who are ... interested., And certainly they are least worried about the steepness of their cars.
              1. Ghjynjyjoiiyr
                Ghjynjyjoiiyr 12 December 2014 12: 12
                0
                Salvage is loved by everyone, and those who don’t think so need to reconsider their position until they get married and start a family.
            2. biznaw
              biznaw 4 November 2014 13: 34
              +2
              Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
              Quote: Normal
              Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
              some really cheap cars

              Well, of course, in Moscow, everyone on the Mersey, BMW and Cayenne cut. Yeah ...
              Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
              in front of such a scientific center.

              So this is not Gazprom, not the Duma and not the Presidential Administration.

              where does Moscow ??? probably Muscovites react like that, it just seems to me that scientists developing such devices should get more money for their work and it doesn’t matter what city it is ...

              Perhaps they get less of the Gazprom manager or the state. official, but ... True show-off is the absence of any show-off, and people who create Hall engines do not suffer from such garbage as a "cool car" ... The owners of cool cars in Moscow are like cockroaches in a student hostel in the old days, but "Olympians" units and their "coolness" can not be surpassed by any cars and ministerial salaries, because real "show-off" cannot be bought for money ...
            3. Bersaglieri
              Bersaglieri 4 November 2014 14: 48
              -1
              Yes, sir ... "ears from a dead donkey" were received in the 90s ... early 2000s, now a little more.
              But not more :(
        4. smart Fox
          smart Fox 3 November 2014 18: 02
          +1
          but they have plasma engines and they are controlled by the thoughts of very-very big-headed people. It’s not the wheelbarrows, but their contents.
    2. Kostyar
      Kostyar 2 November 2014 09: 25
      +2
      Quote: The new engine is the SPD-270 or something, the SPD-100 cannot be called new


      And what do you want them to start developing from scratch, with what you need to start ...?!
    3. Giant thought
      Giant thought 2 November 2014 10: 13
      +3
      It sounds like a fantasy, here we are well done, this is what we wiped our nose with everything else. Bravo!
      1. Candy wrapper
        Candy wrapper 2 November 2014 10: 23
        +31
        It is gratifying to hear about the successes of domestic scientists and engineers. By the way, everyone paid attention to how presentable the building of the Center of Keldysh looks? One feels the state’s concern for its scientists, not that Gazprom has some kind of ragged building or slum near the tattered Vasilyeva ... I’m proud of the state’s policy in this area!
        1. Vita_vko
          Vita_vko 2 November 2014 11: 51
          +9
          Currently, 3 out of 5 world leaders in the production of satellites (EADS Astrium (EU), Thales Alenia Space (EU) and Space Systems / Loral (USA)) use Hall engines made in Russia.

          But what about the sanctions? It’s time to warn these corporations of their problems.
          1. 1812 1945
            1812 1945 2 November 2014 17: 57
            +9
            Quote: Vita_vko
            Currently, 3 out of 5 world leaders in the production of satellites (EADS Astrium (EU), Thales Alenia Space (EU) and Space Systems / Loral (USA)) use Hall engines made in Russia.

            But what about the sanctions? It’s time to warn these corporations of their problems.

            In truth so! It is not necessary to make money on strategic developments by trading them with the West! But to fill the West with condoms at dumping prices (so as not to breed moral uro.dy) - that's it! And in general: you need to focus more on domestic consumption. To raise the standard of living. Liberators knowingly invent theories about the viability of the market with a certain (quantitatively) population. Russia is very self-sufficient. All talk about the need to "build" it into the Western economic system is conditioned by one thing: to deprive independence and take away resources and territories. Russia will not be able to find itself in isolation by definition, because contradictions in the World will never disappear apart from Russia and its interests.
        2. BIP PS FSB RF
          BIP PS FSB RF 2 November 2014 13: 30
          0
          Sorry for the plus. It seems you like to collect cons. wink
        3. Ascetic
          Ascetic 2 November 2014 18: 01
          +11
          Quote: Fantik
          how presentable is the building of the Center of Keldysh? Feeling the state’s concern for its scientists



          MOSCOW, October 13 - RIA Novosti. Computing complex of the Institute of Applied Mathematics MV Keldysh of the Russian Academy of Sciences with a total area of ​​45 thousand square meters can be built in the south-west of Moscow, according to a statement on the website of Moskomstroyinvest.

          "The construction of the complex will be carried out in accordance with the project for the planning of the territory of the industrial zone 35-3 within the boundaries of the industrial zone" Vorontsovo "(South-West Administrative District)," it says.

          Currently, on the considered land there is an object of incomplete construction with an area of ​​35 thousand square meters. The area allocated for construction is 2,66 hectares, specified in the materials.

          The urban planning and land commission of the city of Moscow at a meeting on October 9, 2014 agreed with the further use of the land plot on Obrucheva street 30, for the placement of a computer complex, the report said.
          link

          In the photo, only the administrative building was hit, the mansion is old but it can be seen that it is looked after. The center itself looks like this

          We like various Fantics with shit gates to cover the gates, as they say ...
          1. Shkodnick
            Shkodnick 2 November 2014 18: 28
            +2
            I respect your comments, but I bet you saw this high-rise building near ??? pay attention to the top floor ... everything is sad, unfortunately our stores are cooler decorated than strategic facilities and breakthrough technology buildings ...
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 2 November 2014 20: 23
              +1
              Quote: Shkodnick
              I respect your comments, but I bet you saw this high-rise building close by ??? pay attention to the top floor ... everything is sad


              And what a sad double-glazed windows transoms open in the summer? And in Moscow there are a lot of such historical mansions. This house was built in 1942. There, during the war, the RNII reactive institute was the place for which the building was built.
              Subsequently, the institute was renamed the Research Institute of Thermal Processes (1965), became a part of the Ministry of General Engineering and became the leading research enterprise in the rocket and space industry for rocket propulsion engineering, in 1995 it was renamed the FSUE Keldysh Center, and in 2008 By the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation, the Federal State Unitary Enterprise “Keldysh Center” was granted the status of the State Scientific Center.
              There in the courtyard is the famous "Katyusha" and a monument to the fallen employees of the institute.
              Photo Victory Day 2014




              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 2 November 2014 20: 37
                +7
                SSC FSUE “Center of Keldysh”

                highly qualified engineers for the development of space products are required

                Responsibilities:

                development of design documentation for the product as a whole and for individual units

                Working conditions: high salary


                Requirements for applicants:

                - At least 5 years of work experience in serious design organizations;
                - knowledge of ESKD;
                - confident PC ownership;
                - age up to 55 years
                Tel.: (495) 456-34-80; e-mail: [email protected]

                So who is interested. By the way, the salary of a young specialist from 35000r.
                Plans for the construction of a residential complex for employees are being implemented.
                1. Bersaglieri
                  Bersaglieri 4 November 2014 14: 51
                  0
                  35000r is VERY little even for a young specialist (in this field, a "young specialist" is a person of 25-35 years old, with 3-5 years of experience in research work and a degree of Ph.D. or Ph.D. )
                2. Bersaglieri
                  Bersaglieri 4 November 2014 23: 01
                  0
                  "Knowledge of ESKD" is already 15-20 years old, as irrelevant (who is currently working on the drawing board?). CAD, CAD only. Is that only some of the standards from ESKD have moved, nothing more.
              2. Bayonet
                Bayonet 3 November 2014 07: 33
                0
                Quote: Ascetic
                And what a sad double-glazed windows transoms open in the summer?

                There are no transoms with glazing - this is a roof with ventilation and other auxiliary equipment, covered by a continuation of the walls with openings in the form of windows and is not a sign of desolation and ruin! Such an architectural solution.
                Allegedly, "Katyusha" with an inscription on the bumper in 1941, is a BM-13-16 (or BM-14-16) rocket launcher of the early 1950s, created on the chassis of the ZiS 151, the production of which began in 1948. An obvious blunder!
          2. Candy wrapper
            Candy wrapper 2 November 2014 19: 27
            -3
            "the mansion is old, but it is clear that it is looked after"

            Smiled lol

            As for the construction of a new building, then who argues with the fact that it can be built? We have a lot of things they can and promise, for example, to fight corruption, offshore ... And things are still there. That's when they build, then we'll talk.
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 2 November 2014 23: 00
              +2
              A colleague about the dominance of embezzlement is usually screaming loudly for those who have been left behind or prevented from taking advantage of it. I have been reading you for more than a year and have not decided yet: are you retired or paid? Still, they are more like a retarded prolate.
          3. prio124
            prio124 2 November 2014 19: 33
            +1
            Moscow was not built in a day ! Only Skolkovo comes to mind, with Chubik ...
          4. Nick
            Nick 3 November 2014 17: 00
            +1
            Quote: Ascetic
            We like various Fantics with shit gates to cover the gates, as they say ...

            It is what it is...
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Denis fj
      Denis fj 2 November 2014 14: 09
      +9
      Plasma engines were installed on satellites in the USSR.

      Russian spacecraft have long been equipped with ion power plants. They are released in Kaliningrad. However, in its current form, such engines develop very weak traction - only a few grams. Therefore, they are used either to correct satellite orbits, or for slow, but long-term acceleration of vehicles directly in outer space. At the Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Oleg Batishchev created an innovative ion engine. It was called the "mini helicon plasma plunger." The scientist-inventor himself spoke in detail about his development: - Oleg, how is your engine different from its predecessors? - To begin with, it will be much cheaper to operate. Current electric jets use xenon as their working fluid, and this is a very expensive gas. Our motor works perfectly on nitrogen or argon, which cost almost nothing. A cylinder with compressed nitrogen costs about $ 7-9, and a small bottle of xenon pulls a thousand. In addition, this engine is structurally simple and designed for much longer work in outer space than its predecessors. Finally, its traction resource can be repeatedly increased without much increase in size. Calculations show that with a power of the order of a thousand kilowatts, the diameter of the engine will be about 30 centimeters. An ordinary plasma motor in this case would be ten times more. - And how is it arranged and acts? - Gas enters the quartz cylindrical chamber. A metal winding is wound around it, creating a strong magnetic field inside the chamber. Nearby is an antenna of a special design, which serves as a source of short-wave radio emission. It creates an electrical breakdown in the gas, which leads to the birth of an ion-electron plasma. The external magnetic field is designed in such a way that it greatly accelerates the plasma flows and directs them to the exit from the chamber. Due to this, jet thrust occurs. This thrust can be controlled by changing the rate of gas supply and the receipt of electromagnetic energy. The speed of the emitted ions is very high, it is 10 times higher than the speed of the working fluid exit from the rocket engines using chemical fuel. Therefore, our engine, like other plasma engines, consumes gas reserves very economically. - In which space flights can such motors be used? - In principle, in any. But we focus on its application for correcting satellite orbits and acceleration in space of lunar ships of the next generations. However, this is a matter of the future. Now we have to study the operation of the engine in different modes and better understand the physical processes that take place inside the plasma chamber.
      Again our genius and again in the USA. Trend?
      1. Shur
        Shur 4 November 2014 22: 39
        0
        Yes, but no matter how this Oleg ends up in a landfill when he "works". I think nothing belongs to him there, he will only finish it and he will be merged on a quiet one. And they weren't like that, Tesla was suing all his life. Oh, uncle, if only he hadn't seen the donut hole. Would sell it to Koreans or Europeans, but no, he went straight to Amerstan. Well success, Mr. Olegas Batischeff.
        1. Shur
          Shur 4 November 2014 22: 45
          0
          Here is a video on the topic
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 5 November 2014 00: 20
            +1
            What are all naive. We saw a laboratory trick and everyone was delighted.
            To create a really necessary flow (Let plasma, especially since plasma is a very broad concept), a whole complex of unattainable conditions is necessary). So firstly. For amateurs, this device in the store costs very little money. Secondly . A carrier is required for any ionized stream. Therefore, for cosmic movements, it is possible to use only a closed cycle of energy conversion with the derivation of the potential to the surface planes of the spacecraft. And this is called technology of displacement without dropping the masses.
    6. Zhekson
      Zhekson 2 November 2014 17: 32
      +2
      ... The key role in them is given to the closed drift of electrons. Hall engines operate on the principle of creating an electric field of high potentials in a plasma ... - hell! I thought so!
    7. GRAMARI111
      GRAMARI111 4 November 2014 19: 20
      -1


      ............................
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 2 November 2014 09: 18
    +33
    the parking lot at the "center" impresses with its modesty ... what
    1. Prokop
      Prokop 2 November 2014 09: 26
      +42
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      the parking lot at the "center" impresses with its modesty.

      It is simply here that they are examined and produced, and not pulled and sawed like in Skolkovo. Workers have modest parking.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 5 November 2014 00: 22
        +1
        Serious site! More than half of the posts discuss parking near the center.
    2. SHILO
      SHILO 2 November 2014 09: 29
      +13
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      the parking lot at the "center" impresses with its modesty ... what


      Like the center itself. Superb surveillance + 10!
      They mentioned the efficiency in the article - Skolkovo immediately comes to mind. lol
      1. RONIN-HS
        RONIN-HS 2 November 2014 09: 46
        +12
        ... like the center itself ...

        The building is impressive, the "sawmen" have more baths. The windows of the campaign still remember Khrushchev, the old Soviet doors, the roof was really blocked with a metal profile. And there are no air conditioners, apparently the general scheme of air conditioning and ventilation. Well, the amenities are probably "in the yard". It just didn't get into the frame ...

        Oh, damn it! angry Only a platoon of sailors from the Aurora can correct the situation ...
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 2 November 2014 11: 30
          +8
          Quote: RONIN-HS
          Well, the amenities are probably "in the yard". It just didn't get into the frame ...

          There is no need to follow the lead of the "pessissimists".
          Official website: http://kerc.msk.ru/
          Scroll through the Yandex map "panoramas" around the industrial zone of Onezhskaya-2nd and 3rd Likhachevskiy lanes.
          Sorcasm will decrease.

          Look at which buildings Irkut (IAZ), NAZ them. V.P. Chkalov, U-UAZ, MZiK, IEMZ Kupol, Votkinsk plant, Makeevtsy, etc., etc.
          "Aurora" was delivered to the dock named after Veleshchinsky in Kronstad on the 100th anniversary of the latter.
          Why am I all?
          1) Do not spit in the well, you drink from it.
          2) In the "sharazhkah" they created and went into space, and only then the administrative and office buildings were rebuilt.
        2. svp67
          svp67 2 November 2014 11: 32
          +2
          Quote: RONIN-HS
          The building is impressive, the "sawmen" have more baths.

          Above ground it can, but who has more under ... another question
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 3 November 2014 07: 38
          0
          Quote: RONIN-HS
          Only a platoon of sailors from the Aurora can correct the situation ...

          A platoon of sailors from "Aurora" would have stolen and interrupted what was still there! There was such a slogan - "Steal the loot!"
      2. avt
        avt 2 November 2014 10: 14
        +5
        Quote: SHILO
        Like the center itself. Superb surveillance + 10!
        They mentioned the efficiency in the article - Skolkovo immediately comes to mind.

        Do not touch the holy! laughing For his sake, even the Vostryakovo station was renamed into Skolkovo! There is still the Vostryakovskoye cemetery in Skolkovskoye ... laughing
        1. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 2 November 2014 23: 03
          -1
          Credit, colleague! Especially about the cemetery!
    3. cerbuk6155
      cerbuk6155 2 November 2014 09: 33
      +9
      What is the salary of the academicians and workers of the center, such a parking and building. These are not officials, who only steal and build palaces and transfer money to the West, they are hard workers, and they have no time and nothing to steal. And they will not run away like bureaucrats. soldier
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. ADK57
      ADK57 2 November 2014 12: 55
      +1
      Andrey Yuryevich!
      Well, why are you helping American intelligence look for the most significant scientific institutions in Russia. After your post, they will definitely withdraw all their agents from Skolkovo.
  3. Justme
    Justme 2 November 2014 09: 19
    +2
    OBK Torch (Kaliningad)
    grazing this topic since the late 60s

    http://www.fakel-russia.com/products.html
    1. ARS56
      ARS56 2 November 2014 10: 22
      0
      Grazing, or grazing on the subject? What is the exhaust?
      Judging by the site - in Kaliningrad concentrated experimental, and maybe all production. And Keldysh has a science, including applied science.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 2 November 2014 09: 22
    +1
    Good news. Even if the engine is not the first freshness, new ones will appear. The main thing was the movement to eliminate dependence and lag.
  5. Hairy Siberian
    Hairy Siberian 2 November 2014 09: 25
    +7
    The Hall engine is a type of electric rocket engine (sometimes the term plasma engine is used). More efficient than the historically first ion engine, but inferior to the magnetoplasmodynamic (MTD) engine. Thus, the Hall engine occupies a middle position among the plasma engine family.
    If only positive ions are accelerated in the ion engine, then the entire working fluid (both positive ions and negative electrons) is involved in the Hall engine. Therefore, the Hall engine, unlike the ion engine, has no restrictions on the space charge, and it gives a higher thrust density and, accordingly, greater acceleration.
    Currently, more than 200 Hall engines operate on orbital vehicles. The Hall engine used the European Space Agency to fly SMART 1 to the moon.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 2 November 2014 12: 00
      +1
      The method and the method on which the driving force is created are completely ineffective. In any case, a significant energy potential must be applied to ionize the gas. It certainly needs to be removed somewhere. Therefore, there is a method. which allows you to create an EMF in any solid without separation into magnets, not magnets, etc. The method and device are completely simple and able to work in space and under gravity. This means that the same xenon is ionized in a separate device, and its second part of the potential forms a circuit at the exit of the nozzle. Although for a real project and device it is really necessary not to ionize the gas, but the aircraft body. To do this, you need to use the potential of the space environment itself. Hope everyone understands that space is not a vacuum. In addition, there is a motion vector of this medium with respect to both the space inside the ship and to any device that can easily create a potential difference in this very space. Everything is just like creating a potential difference in water or gas.
      1. Hairy Siberian
        Hairy Siberian 2 November 2014 12: 32
        0
        Well, you generally went into fiction. good
        Of course, someday in the future, mankind will be able to use some particles existing in outer space (mainly hydrogen), as well as electromagnetic radiation and interstellar matter, as an energy source, since space is really not a vacuum.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 2 November 2014 12: 44
          +2
          Why fiction. The only thing is that I cannot draw a diagram of such a process and show the device (of course, not the engine itself, but a converter of any density of the moving medium.) Remember how JJ said. SERL "In the laws of nature, nothing is impossible, except what your consciousness considers impossible." On my own I would add that "everything can happen in this world, but no more than that which is characteristic of this world." And everything is much simpler than it often seems.
          Space is a space not of matter, but of dominant magnetic force interactions.
    2. Ryndabul
      Ryndabul 2 November 2014 12: 44
      +1
      PPS-1350

      The SPT-100 technology reproduced in Europe by Snecma Moteurs within the framework of the agreement between OKB "FAKEL" and Snecma Moteurs. It was used as the main engine of the lunar spacecraft within the SMART1 program.
  6. novobranets
    novobranets 2 November 2014 09: 29
    0
    Hall engines operate on the principle of creating an electric field of high potentials in a plasma.
    If I understand anything, then these engines should create a monstrous static charge. fellow on the hull of a ship, station, etc. How does equipment work in such conditions? what And the second - how to dock with another ship? Electrostatic discharge, during docking, should bring a lot of problems, to say the least. belay
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 2 November 2014 09: 52
      +1
      Static charge, this is essentially the potential difference between objects. Those. energy. If I understand correctly, then this same energy is spent on xenon ionization, i.e. the creation of plasma. Where does the static come from on the case if all the ions and electrons that form inside engine fly into space far away?
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 2 November 2014 12: 01
        0
        The potential difference is an electric current. Static stress, roughly speaking, is the accumulation of surface charges. This is observed in helicopters, (saw the night landing of the turntable?) Only the mechanism of the appearance of charges is different. The outflow of a plasma jet from the nozzles has orders of magnitude greater speed than the rotation of the rotor of the helicopter, respectively, the static charge is much greater.
        Quote: Wedmak
        if all the ions and electrons forming inside the engine fly into space far away?
        they are not formed, because long formed (electron, ion - elementary particles), they are accelerated in the engine, in a magnetic field, and the uncharged particles in one accelerator (in our case, the engine) cannot be dispersed. And there is no escape from the appearance of statics. hi
        py sy Who here again wound up, minus all in a row? Speak out what does not agree, we will listen.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 2 November 2014 12: 11
          +1
          What would be easier - plasma is always the closure of the energy circuit. Only in the imagination of people does the contour associate with a conductor, But the same thing happens in spatial energy connections. This cannot be misunderstood. So !!!! If this plasma has a vector in a certain direction, then there it is necessary to consider the component of the energy circuit. Then the statics will not be affected, because it is formed on the border of the interaction of the body separating the space itself from the potential created by the work of all the equipment.
          1. novobranets
            novobranets 2 November 2014 13: 00
            +2
            Plasma has the same or almost identical volumes of positively and negatively charged particles. This is one of the main properties, called quasineutrality (if not mistaken what), precisely because of this, plasma is a conducting medium, but as I understand it, its other property is used in the engine - interaction with a magnetic and electric field. Oh, oh, oh, it seems this is not a place to breed such disputes, you can stretch it ... fellow. In general, thanks, it was nice to chat with a person who is knowledgeable in the subject. hi +
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 2 November 2014 13: 16
              +1
              I always note that people are just a semblance of forms, but this is the greatest variety of individuals. Therefore, to touch like-minded people is the same as finding the faintest luminous star in a blurred sky. And then we do not affirm or pose. We are studying. A scientist is always learning!
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 2 November 2014 13: 14
            +2
            plasma is always the closure of the energy circuit.

            And I was taught at school that plasma is a special state of matter, characterized by large ionization, breaking of interatomic and molecular bonds, consisting of ions, electrons. But there is no statics there because the plasma itself is electrically neutral, the density of electrons and ions is almost the same, which gives a total of zero charge.
            1. novobranets
              novobranets 2 November 2014 13: 34
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              And I was taught at school that plasma is a special state of matter

              That's right. Plasma is the fourth aggregate state of matter. There really is no statics there, as long as there is no effect on the plasma. Roughly speaking, the engine is working so the plasma is fed into the chamber where the magnetic or electronic is created. a magnetic field of high intensity, any of these fields has a direction of lines of force, under the influence of this field, particles charged positively (conditionally) begin to move to the negative pole, i.e. accelerate and flying through the nozzle create jet thrust. But what is being done with negatively charged particles? They do not disappear anywhere (the law of conservation of energy), they accumulate, creating an electrostatic charge. Petrovich wrote below that they learned how to deal with this; interestingly, you need to look for what is on this topic. Py Sy found the image of the engine.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 2 November 2014 13: 43
                +5
                But what is being done with negatively charged particles? They do not disappear anywhere (the law of conservation of energy), they accumulate, creating an electrostatic charge.

                Why are they accumulating? Judging by the description of the engine:
                "The Hall motor has an internal positive cathode and an external negative anode. An electric field is formed between them, into which xenon gas enters. The electric field knocks out negative particles (electrons) from neutral gas atoms, thereby converting them into positive ions. These particles (negative electrons and positive ions in the form of plasma) picks up the Hall current and directs it into a perpendicular magnetic field, which is located along the axis of the motor. Here, the Hall current accelerates particles along the axis of the magnetic field and throws them out of the nozzle ".
                That is, both electrons and xenon ions fly away.
                Important Note: "And if only positive ions are accelerated in an ion engine, then the entire working medium is involved in the Hall engine (both positive ions and negative electrons)".
                1. novobranets
                  novobranets 2 November 2014 13: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  "And if only positive ions are accelerated in an ion engine, then the entire working medium (both positive ions and negative electrons) is involved in a Hall engine."

                  + Very curious. Live and learn.
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 09
                    +1
                    Here it is necessary to reflect ?? !! Within the internal structure of the flow, everything is true. However, the total flow has a pronounced parameter of a certain potential.
                    1. novobranets
                      novobranets 2 November 2014 14: 18
                      0
                      Quote: gridasov
                      But cumulative the flow has an explicit parameter of a certain potential.

                      ??
                      1. gridasov
                        gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 32
                        +2
                        What's the problem? Any flow has its own energy potential, expressed in the combination of kinetic energy and potential. The first determines the entire component of the dynamics of the flow array, and the second determines the totality of processes occurring in the flow substance. This potential energy can be expressed both in the interaction with the surfaces of the outflow and with the conjugate layers and jets. Mathematically, a turbulent process, as a high-energy one, can be described only as a set of one-time transformations at each point of the flow that is being considered or forms a complete energy "form".
                      2. novobranets
                        novobranets 2 November 2014 14: 54
                        0
                        Alas, I am not so strong in the physics of magnetism that I would be able to understand at a glance. repeat
                      3. gridasov
                        gridasov 2 November 2014 15: 16
                        +2
                        Nobody reproaches you for this. On the contrary, I would express gratitude for dialogue and tolerance.
                2. gridasov
                  gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 04
                  +3
                  Let me make a final remark. In mathematics there is no definition of minus or plus in that aspect as it happens in the analysis of physical processes, namely email. magnetic processes. This means that in order to combine some knowledge and others, one must either consider the nat itself. a series of numbers or change the parameters of the analysis of physical laws. BUT!!! Physics is evidence, and mathematics is empiricism. Therefore, it is worth changing the attitude specifically to Nat. a series of numbers. In general, calculations can be performed as a symmetric process. Namely, as in physics, plus and minus. And it is quite possible.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 2 November 2014 14: 13
                    0
                    In mathematics there is no definition of minus or plus in that aspect as it happens in the analysis of physical processes, namely email. magnetic processes.

                    How is it not? Yes, all the discoveries and technologies of the last 50 years open at the tip of a pen! These are mountains of formulas and calculations. and how would these calculations be done if we knew only natural numbers?
                    Physics is evidence, and mathematics is empiricism.

                    Exactly, therefore, mathematics is a theoretical tool that allows you to describe physical processes, simulate them and make new discoveries on this basis.
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 50
                      +1
                      You did not quite understand and I knew that it would cause bewilderment.
                      You are right that these are mountains of unrelated formulas having a lot of uncertainties and postulates. Therefore, within the framework of low potential interactions, a complex of such assumptions, inaccuracies, etc. is quite acceptable. And no one disputes the achievements of mathematicians. BUT!!! With high-potential physical processes, there is no possibility of being inaccurate and making mistakes or assumptions. I think this is understandable. Otherwise, the slightest inaccuracy will lead to the accumulation of errors, etc. In addition, the analysis of high-capacity information processes should not be energy dependent on the number of such calculations. Therefore, the network method of such analysis. Honestly, it contains only numbers. And nothing else from modern mathematics. But! it is with this method that one can describe the interconnectedness of all processes occurring in space. It combines dimension and all quantitative processes of analyzes and all kinds of geometries, and plus precisely the potential difference, as physical processes. In general, this is not a topic for discussion.
          3. nik6006
            nik6006 2 November 2014 13: 25
            +2
            Dear colleagues, please explain, does this engine also have a working fluid, after which an impulse of movement is created? That is, the ship must have a supply of this working fluid? Is it just that this engine has high efficiency in accelerating this working fluid? Please clarify, I apologize in advance for maybe stupid assumptions.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 2 November 2014 13: 31
              +2
              does this engine also have a working fluid, after which an impulse of movement is created?

              Yes, this is xenon, which ionizes interacting with a magnetic field and gives reactive traction (acceleration). The thrust is very small compared to chemical engines, but such an engine can work for years, dropping the device to very high speeds.
              1. nik6006
                nik6006 2 November 2014 19: 10
                0
                But at the same time, a very large supply of this working fluid is probably necessary? In fact, this is a normal rocket propulsion, only the method of dispersing the expiring working fluid is very ... extravagant, well, as it were, not very widespread. Clear, thanks for the explanation. hi
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 2 November 2014 21: 41
                  0
                  probably a very large supply of this working fluid is needed? In fact, this is an ordinary rocket propulsion, only the method of dispersing an expiring working fluid is very ... extravagant

                  The principle of jet propulsion has not changed. The working fluid is used in different ways. And what about the volume - it is needed much less, for "chemical" engines you need fuel and an oxidizer, all this needs to be carried with you, and for a plasma one, only a working fluid and an electricity generator.
        2. for
          for 2 November 2014 13: 03
          +1
          You said correctly, but scientists are also not suckers, and of course they solved this problem (of neutralizing the plasma jet stream). The above is a picture of the Hall European engine, and two cylinders stick out on the side of it, so they just neutralize the charge.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 2 November 2014 13: 17
            0
            The above is a picture of the Hall European engine, and two cylinders stick out from the side

            But aren't these external cathodes?
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 2 November 2014 13: 39
            +1
            It is clear what you are talking about. But modern capacitors are not able to provide sufficient energy density or potential difference. There is a theoretical justification for creating such a capacitor, which, with a potential on one surface, makes it possible to create a completely unimaginable potential density on the other part. Up to the "cold" plasma breakdown on the external circuit. Ie, according to its properties, it is the same ball "lightning"
        3. Wedmak
          Wedmak 2 November 2014 13: 09
          0
          The potential difference is an electric current.

          True? And I thought it was called stress.
          Static stress, roughly speaking, is the accumulation of surface charges. This is observed in helicopters, (saw the night landing of the turntable?) Only the mechanism of the appearance of charges is different.

          And where do you think the charge disappears under a different sign? Statics is a potential difference that arises for various reasons - mainly due to friction. That is, in any case, one object is positively charged, the other is negative! Even if you rub an ebony stick with a cloth, there will be a charge of one sign on the stick, another on the cloth!
          they are not formed, because long formed (electron, ion - elementary particles)

          If I said they were born, I was wrong. And so they are formed, because in the ordinary state, they are bound in atoms and do not interact electrically in any way.
          and the uncharged particles in one accelerator (in our case, the engine) cannot be dispersed.

          Pay attention to the item 3 and 4 in the figure.
          And there is no escape from the appearance of statics.

          They fight fine with statics, for that matter. But in this case, where do the statics come from? I don’t quite understand.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 2 November 2014 13: 53
            +1
            From the name, the essence of the process does not change. This is voltage or potential difference. It is simply much more rational to call precisely the potential difference because in multipolar interaction systems this difference also acquires the vector parameter.
            You are deeply mistaken in considering the process of glowing the tips of the helicopter blades. This is not static. This is the dynamics of combined processes. There is a whole complex of formation of directed flows of air flow, as an ionizing surface of the flow. So the processes themselves occurring inside the structure of the material are in dynamic rotation. I will say more precisely this complex process can be effectively used. But for this, the propeller blades must be replaced by fundamentally new forms.
            In general, it doesn’t seem to you that it is more rational to consider not the exaggerated nucleation process, somewhere else, etc., but to consider space as a fractal radial structure in which each level has a factor and a perturbation parameter of those magnetic fluxes that form the structure. Then everything becomes much easier for analysis and modeling. Everything is similar, mathematically and in numerical and geometric parameters combined with the physics of processes.
            Once again I note that statics does not mean the absence of dynamics in magnetic processes. Therefore, obviously, you need to look deep into the process.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 2 November 2014 14: 07
              +1
              From the name, the essence of the process does not change. This is voltage or potential difference.

              Well, yes, at first you called the potential difference current, and now the essence of the name is not important ...
              that in multipolar interaction systems

              In multipolar systems, the calculation of interactions is such that supercomputers somehow cope with this. I propose not to get into such high matters. We are only talking about the occurrence or non-occurrence of static electricity on the spacecraft when using the Hall engine.

              and consider space as a fractal radial structure in which each level has a factor and a perturbation parameter of those magnetic fluxes that form the structure.

              Who are you talking to now?

              that statics does not mean the absence of dynamics in magnetic processes

              Speak more clearly please, under statics and dynamics you can understand different things. A conventional electric motor also has a stator and rotor. The stator does not move, and the rotor for some reason rotates like mad, not otherwise witchcraft!
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 20
                +1
                Maybe I just was not understood? I said that the absence of a directional EMF vector does not mean the absence of a potential difference or tension.
                The second multipolarity is considered as a mathematical aspect of the combination of geometry and arithmetic, and for this there is absolutely no need for supercomputers.
                The third. You immediately surrendered in vain in a misunderstanding of the essence of fractality. If the perception of the distance between points A and B is considered as a straight line, and therefore there is a dimension and, accordingly, a potential difference, then in spatial form it is worth adding only exhaustive forms of symmetry and consider this segment as an identity in the form of a circle drawn through it. Nothing complicated.
                Fourth. It is not always worth associating static and dynamic processes with the properties of magnetic force processes.
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 2 November 2014 14: 44
                  0
                  Maybe I just was not understood?

                  You say with such words, and with such twists of sentences, that in order to understand each of them, you need to open the directory, and that does not always help.
                  the absence of a directional EMF vector does not mean the absence of a potential difference or tension.

                  Of course does not mean. There is a potential difference in the battery, but EMF is not noticed there.
                  The second multipolarity is considered as a mathematical aspect of the combination of geometry and arithmetic, and for this there is absolutely no need for supercomputers.

                  Nda? Ok, I'll see how you calculate the interaction of magnetic fields in TOKAMAK on your home computer.
                  You immediately surrendered in vain in a misunderstanding of the essence of fractality.

                  Well, I don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about. For me, fractal is a concept closely related to the surname Mandelbrot, beautiful drawings and the concept of self-similarity. I know that this concept and calculations are used in mathematics and physics to describe nonlinear processes; I know that fractal functions are used in some other areas. But the phrase
                  then in spatial form it is worth adding only exhaustive forms of symmetry and consider this segment as an identity in the form of a circle drawn through it.
                  I am not able to understand! What are the exhaustive forms of symmetry and how can we consider the identity in the form of a circle drawn through it, I can not imagine.
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 2 November 2014 15: 14
                    +2
                    We really went too deep into the discussion. I can only say that TOKAMAK considers the creation of energy density completely not in the coordinated vectors of the organization of magnetic force interactions .. Therefore, this is certainly a necessary negative result, but a lot of positive elements of the process. And do not bother much so as not to understand where the accident will occur on these devices.
                    Fractal or fractality is a form of building dynamic processes in space. In other words, the organization process is identical for everything or similar, and the organization form can be completely different. Therefore, fractality levels the expansion of the information space depending on the dimension of this expanded space. That is, there is no proportionality in the fact that the information capacity is dependent on the dimension. Again, this removes energy dependencies in the processes of forming the information density of events on the dimension of space. It will be simpler and more understandable if I give an example of what planetary sub. civilization of people allows us to carry the information load of both the early development of mankind and its future. The future of mankind is its highly dynamic state with parametrically huge confrontations and confrontations. But this means that all these confrontations and confrontations can be combined and directed into the mainstream of productive development. Humanity is on the verge of not static changes in the structure of its life, but that we have entered a highly dynamic space of variable density of information flows. The real task of modern man is how to work with significant volumes and flows of information. And at the same time remain a man.
            2. novobranets
              novobranets 2 November 2014 14: 10
              0
              Quote: gridasov
              You are deeply mistaken in considering the process of glowing the tips of the helicopter blades. This is not static.

              I meant flashes of discharges when touching the wheels of a helicopter of the earth.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 2 November 2014 14: 38
                +1
                Without a doubt ! After all, a helicopter is a unipolar electrical process. This is the equivalent of this unipolar electric motor. The body is a function of the axis, and the blades are centrifugal processes that form not only directional vectors of air movement, as a substance of the flow, but also a directional EMF process. Therefore, through the air and the Earth, a circuit is closed through a breakdown on wheels.
        4. gridasov
          gridasov 2 November 2014 13: 12
          +2
          And that's not quite right. There may be a potential difference, but there is no current. Current arises only when there is an asymmetry of magnetic force flows. In turn, the magnetic force flows have not only longitudinal, but also spin, moments of rotation. And there is one major fundamental property. Therefore, it is easy to strengthen or weaken some vectors of dominant action and increase others. I will give an example. The TESLA engine (meaning the Tesla car) uses exactly the spin effect in the ring stator, which creates a torque on the rotor. Or an engine with a flat printed anchor. What is missing? Is the DC transformer correct ?? !!. Many will not believe, but in direct current, based on what has been said before, it has a spin control factor. So the transformer is not built on pushing in a longitudinal vector. but on the creation of a rotating moment of magnetic flux. Do gentlemen! Do it!
  7. Freeway_3007
    Freeway_3007 2 November 2014 09: 45
    +1
    probably this is a breakthrough? ...
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 2 November 2014 09: 58
      +2
      Not really, it's just a development of old ideas from the 1960's. On a new base, with accumulated knowledge. A breakthrough will be when we get to Jupiter within a week.
      1. saag
        saag 2 November 2014 10: 54
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak
        A breakthrough will be when we get to Jupiter within a week.

        Eka you, my friend, swung, there would be at least a month's shoulder to Mars :-)
  8. pvv113
    pvv113 2 November 2014 09: 57
    +4
    new domestic plasma engines began to work.

    More recently, such engines were considered science fiction !!! good
  9. sub307
    sub307 2 November 2014 10: 17
    0
    Hmm ... we’re not going to deep space ....
  10. fim lex
    fim lex 2 November 2014 10: 21
    +2
    Not everyone has managed to steal from us!
  11. RADIOACTIVE
    RADIOACTIVE 2 November 2014 10: 34
    +1
    Well done, you can congratulate, then not everything is still so bad in our space program
  12. Lock
    Lock 2 November 2014 10: 49
    0
    Now the Moon and Mars will be "closer".
    1. for
      for 2 November 2014 13: 06
      +1
      They will become closer if the Central Committee succeeds in designing the nuclear tug that they took up. On it, by the way, and the electric propulsion with a half-meter mirror is laid.
  13. Ghjynjyjoiiyr
    Ghjynjyjoiiyr 2 November 2014 10: 55
    -13
    Who do they want to fool with their advanced designs ?! Take a look at the facade of the building and everything will immediately become clear, this squalor is truly "cosmic" in scale, and there is "plasma" .... !!
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 2 November 2014 11: 15
      +4
      The facade does not say anything. But when the institution, receiving financing, immediately begins capital construction - here it is necessary to think. And to improve plasma accelerators with a power of about 10 kW, not so many people need it. Even with pilot production - and a hundred people - for the eyes.
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 2 November 2014 12: 08
        +4
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        The facade does not say anything.

        Secret objects and should not have a catchy appearance, a nondescript grayish look, what you need.
        1. Terner38
          Terner38 2 November 2014 13: 33
          +3
          In my city, the Khrunichev center is generally called "Armature" and the view from the outside is similar, but there are quite a lot of equipment inside.
  14. poquello
    poquello 2 November 2014 11: 51
    -1
    But didn’t they say about these engines at the initial stage that they didn’t work normally, and that they knew why?
  15. Prager
    Prager 2 November 2014 11: 53
    -1
    let them work for the good of their native cosmos, if only they would not explode, like mattresses have. soldier
  16. for
    for 2 November 2014 12: 55
    0
    Quote: Fantik
    By the way, everyone paid attention to how presentable the building of the Center of Keldysh looks? You feel the state’s concern for your scientists,

    Never look at the facade.
    Very often the facade is super-duper (Rusnano for example), and there is nothing behind the facade
  17. Breard
    Breard 2 November 2014 14: 27
    +1
    Well yes! ... hard to believe .... It's like a message like this!
    http://nnm.me/blogs/rus001/v-tambove-razrabotali-bespilotnik-derzhava/#cut
  18. voliador
    voliador 2 November 2014 14: 37
    -1
    Mars is waiting !!!
  19. Codename49
    Codename49 2 November 2014 17: 03
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGp_r6BYWMA
    The secret development of the American government in the country of the United States is happy and rich, everything from small to large !!!
  20. Danilich
    Danilich 2 November 2014 19: 31
    0
    Quote: denis fj
    Again our genius and again in the USA

    And what's the point? Penguins that with our scientists that without never learned to fly into space on their own! The separatists shot down their last rocket altogether laughing fellow
  21. RUS33
    RUS33 2 November 2014 19: 44
    -1
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    some really cheap cars are facing SUCH a scientific center .... I hope a little old photo

    It’s just that all the money went to development, and not to cars. Therefore, engines fly.
  22. Gemini
    Gemini 2 November 2014 20: 02
    0
    Quote: Terner38
    In my city, the Khrunichev center is generally called "Armature" and the view from the outside is similar, but there are quite a lot of equipment inside.

    hell, burned disguise .. a talker is a godsend for ..
  23. lurk
    lurk 2 November 2014 23: 25
    -1
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    some really cheap cars are facing SUCH a scientific center .... I hope a little old photo

    This is not an office center for you, people of science are working there, not hucksters from the stock exchange.
  24. pensioner
    pensioner 3 November 2014 01: 32
    0
    These are electromagnetic class motors with an external magnetic field. The key role in them is given to the closed drift of electrons. Hall engines operate on the principle of creating an electric field of high potentials in a plasma.

    Ipt what ... Thank you ... Explained ... recourse And what am I, ur ... how do I study physics all the time? All the same, no use! request
  25. Valery T.
    Valery T. 3 November 2014 07: 25
    -1
    I think everything is neither good nor bad. People just work. Do what they ordered. Just as taught. Fulfill the plans. write reports and issue prototypes. More or less on time. Everything is as usual.
  26. abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 3 November 2014 10: 03
    0
    I’m more interested in such moments as:
    - engine class - marching, orientation?
    - thrust?
    1. Junior, I
      Junior, I 3 November 2014 11: 48
      0
      They won’t tell you that for sure.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 3 November 2014 13: 03
      0
      engine class

      Orientation, raising the orbit. For middle-class satellites, they can also be marching. The thrust is small, but can work for months and years, accelerating the spacecraft to very high speeds.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 5 November 2014 08: 14
        0
        Orientation tasks are very small capacities.
        The tasks of changing the orbit - can already be considered marching, medium power.
        For all this, there are already achievements and serial products.
        Ours needs to stake out a niche of high power engines (in conjunction with EC), suitable for acceleration of heavy class spacecraft outside the Earth's orbits. That would be a real breakthrough in the space industry.
  27. Junior, I
    Junior, I 3 November 2014 11: 48
    0
    And on hrena Skolkovo !!!
  28. gridasov
    gridasov 3 November 2014 12: 59
    +1
    It is worth voicing a very important aspect. There are a huge number of developers of interesting ideas. But!!! There should be an institute of expertise. Money can be invested in commercially interesting projects, but only at an intermediate stage. It is very important to see the sequence of evolution of scientific developments and invest in such developments. This process in all countries is comparable to the fact that in the maze you are looking for only one correct way out. Personally, I know many projects convenient for businessmen, but not promising in the development of a consistent scientific theory of knowledge about the world. Of course, such projects are only temporary success.
  29. faterdom
    faterdom 3 November 2014 15: 59
    +1
    Something I don’t quite understand - why did everyone focus on the fact that there is quasiequilibrium in the plasma? Especially the electrostatic (dynamic?), Even if one doesn’t neutralize and neutralize anything there, but stupidly poison electrons in one and the same field with electrons in one direction, and positive ions in the other, then, in fact, even with a hydrogen nucleus, an electron is practically it has no mass (though it will acquire maximum speed, but it is known to be limited). But the ions should create traction, and here - the heavier the element - the better.
    Then all Anunaki and Nibiru hunted for gold, they say, they created human civilization so that someone would get gold for them, and from time to time they would come for it. Because there are no other intelligible explanations of why gold since ancient times has been intrinsic to humanity.
  30. Eileennush
    Eileennush 3 November 2014 18: 24
    0
    Hello! We are engaged in noise / vibration isolation for every taste, from door insulation to car sound, ending with the entire machine, we work only with proven materials: STP and Shumoff! Doing door leafing! Install speakers. We are also engaged in the restoration and alteration of car optics, we install lenses of various types and under any lamp, angel eyes. We polish corrugated glasses for installing lenses (at the exit corrugated glasses are smooth and transparent like glass). We are also engaged in decorative and protective (anti-gravel) films!
    We make body kits and any other body parts from fiberglass. We make a leveling and painting of cars! We guarantee the quality of any work! Contact
    You can see our work on our website, or on the VK page
    https://vk.com/auto_style_1
  31. Romass
    Romass 3 November 2014 19: 10
    0
    Why is everything rotten silent - is it? The pagan west, besides the plasma piderism, does not own anything.
  32. Valery Morozov
    Valery Morozov 4 November 2014 08: 59
    0
    CLASS !!!!!!!!!!!!
  33. Lonilliseecip
    Lonilliseecip 4 November 2014 11: 31
    0
    miss ki chudai
    delete plz
    ygPRbxkQTb
  34. silver_roman
    silver_roman 4 November 2014 17: 26
    0
    Proud of my country, but one annoying: "new generation". wherever you spit everywhere this term. New generation engines, airplanes, tanks, ballpoint pens, loaves ... we shouldn't adopt these marketing moves. It seems like we are trying to get away from them.
    Why not say, say, engines based on advanced technologies or something else. The options are full.
  35. andreykalin
    andreykalin 4 November 2014 19: 20
    0
    Well done !!!
  36. Days
    Days 14 December 2014 21: 09
    0
    Interestingly, probably just such engines can be used in a nuclear electric propulsion system of a transport and energy module, for which the first fuel rod was recently assembled?