Myths of the United States. The backwardness of the Soviet computer technology

262
Myths of the United States. The backwardness of the Soviet computer technology


“If we consider the models of weapons of different types of troops, and even in the historical aspect, how many samples of Soviet military equipment were the best compared with the same American? Where was the most money, modern research and production equipment, scientists? Maybe the USSR was the leader in the creation of computers, software? "

I want to say a separate thank you sevtrash, which encouraged me to write this article, and whose commentary phrases I used as an epigraph.

The phrases “Russian processor” or “Soviet computer” unfortunately cause a number of specific associations introduced by our media, mindlessly (or, on the contrary, consciously) replicating western articles. Everyone has become accustomed to thinking that these are antediluvian devices, bulky, weak, inconvenient, and indeed, domestic technology is always a reason for sarcasm and irony. Unfortunately, few people know that the USSR at certain moments stories computing was "ahead of the rest." And even less information you will find about modern domestic developments in this area.

The Soviet Union is called a country that possessed one of the strongest scientific schools in the world, not only “leavened” patriots. This is an objective fact, based on an in-depth analysis of the education system by experts of the British Association of Educators. Historically, in the USSR, special emphasis was placed on the training of specialists in the field of natural sciences, engineers and mathematicians. In the middle of the 20th century, there were several schools of computer engineering in the Soviet Union, and there was no shortage of qualified personnel for them, which is why there were all the prerequisites for the successful development of a new industry. Dozens of talented scientists and engineers participated in the creation of various systems of electronic computing machines. We are now talking only about the major milestones in the development of digital computers in the USSR. Work on analog machines was begun even before the war, and in 1945, the first in the USSR analog machine was already working. Before the war, research and development of high-speed triggers, the basic elements of digital computers, began.


Sergey Alekseevich Lebedev (1902 - 1974) is reasonably called the founder of the development of computing technology in the Soviet Union - 15 types of computers were developed under his leadership, from the simplest tube to supercomputers on integrated circuits


In the USSR, it was known about the creation of the ENIAC machine by the Americans in 1946, the first computer in the world with electronic tubes as an element base and automatic program control. Despite the fact that Soviet scientists knew about the existence of this machine, nevertheless, like any other information that had leaked into Russia during the Cold War, these data were very scarce and vague. Therefore, talk about the fact that the Soviet computer technology was copied from Western samples - no more than insinuations. Yes, and what kind of "samples" can we talk about, if the existing models of computers at that time occupied two or three floors and only a very limited circle of people had access to them? The maximum that could have been obtained by domestic spies is fragmentary information from technical documentation and transcripts from scientific conferences.

At the end of 1948, academician S.A.Lebedev began work on the first domestic machine. A year later, the architecture was developed (from scratch, without any borrowing), as well as the schematic diagrams of individual units. In 1950, the computer was mounted in record time by only 12 researchers and 15 technicians. Lebedev called his brainchild “The Small Electronic Calculating Machine”, or MESM. The “baby”, consisting of six thousand electron tubes, occupied the whole wing of a two-story building. Let no one be shocked by such dimensions. Western designs were no less. The fiftieth year was in the courtyard and radio tubes ruled the ball.

It should be noted that in the USSR MESM was launched at a time when there was only one computer in Europe - the British EDSAC, which was launched just a year earlier. But the MESM processor was much more powerful due to the parallelization of the computational process. A similar EDSAK machine - TsEM-1 - was commissioned at the Institute of Atomic Energy in 1953 year - and it also surpassed EDFA by a number of parameters.

When creating the MESM, all the fundamental principles of creating computers were used, such as the presence of input and output devices, the coding and storage of the program in memory, the automatic execution of calculations based on the program stored in the memory, etc. Most importantly, it was a computer based on binary logic used in computer technology (the American ENIAC used the decimal system (!!!), and in addition, the principle of pipelining developed by SA Lebedev was applied to it when command and command flows The operands are processed in parallel, now used in all computers in the world.

Following the small electron-counting machine, a large one followed - the BESM-1. The development was completed in the autumn of 1952, after which Lebedev became a full member of the USSR Academy of Sciences.

The new machine took into account the experience of creating MESM and applied improved element base. The computer had 8-10 speed of thousands of operations per second (versus only 50 operations per second at MESM), external storage devices were made on the basis of magnetic tapes and magnetic drums. Somewhat later, scientists experimented with drives on mercury tubes, potentialoscopes and ferrite cores.
If in the USSR they knew little about Western computers, then in Europe and the USA they knew practically nothing about Soviet computers. Therefore, the report of Lebedev at a scientific conference in Darmstadt became a real sensation: it turned out that the BESM-1 assembled in the Soviet Union is the most productive and powerful computer in Europe.

In 1958, after another upgrade of the BESM RAM, which was already called BESM-2, it was mass-produced at one of the Union’s factories. The further work of the team led by Lebedev was the development and improvement of the first BESM. A new family of supercomputers under the brand “M” was created, whose serial model M-20, which performed up to 20 thousands of operations per second, was at that time the fastest operating computer in the world.

1958 year was another important, albeit little-known milestone in the development of computer technology. Under the leadership of V. S. Burtsev, a student of Lebedev, the complex consisting of several M-40 and M-50 machines (deep modernization of M-20), including those located on a mobile platform, was interconnected into a wireless network that worked on distances to 200 km. At the same time, it is officially considered that the world's first computer network started working only in the 1965 year, when the TX-2 computers of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the Q-32 SDC in Santa Monica were connected. Thus, contrary to the American myth, the computer network was first developed and implemented in the USSR, as much as 7 years earlier.

Especially for the needs of the military, including the Space Control Center, several computer models based on M-40 and M-50 were developed, which became the “cybernetic brain” of the Soviet antimissile system created under the guidance of V.G. Kisunko and the real rocket shot down in 1961 year - the Americans were able to repeat it only in 23 year.

The first full-fledged car of the second generation (on a semiconductor basis) was the BESM-6. This machine had a record for that time speed - about a million operations per second. Many of the principles of its architecture and structural organization were a real revolution in computing technology of that period and, in fact, were already a step into the third generation of computers.


BESM-6, created in the USSR in 1966, had a record for that time speed - about a million operations per second


In BESM-6, RAM was split into blocks allowing simultaneous sampling of information, which dramatically increased the speed of accessing the memory system, widely used the principle of combining command execution (up to 14 machine commands could be in the processor at different stages of execution at the same time). This principle, named by the chief designer of BESM-6, academician S.A. Lebedev, the principle of "plumbing", was later widely used to improve the performance of universal computers, receiving in modern terminology the name "command pipeline". A query buffering method was introduced for the first time, a prototype of a modern cache was created, an effective system of multitasking and accessing external devices was implemented, and many other innovations, some of which are still in use. BESM-6 was so successful that it was mass-produced during 20 years and effectively worked in various government structures and institutions.

By the way, the International Center for Nuclear Research created in Switzerland used the BESM machines for calculations. And one more significant fact that beats the myth of the backwardness of our computing technology ... During the Soviet-American Soyuz-Apollon space flight, the Soviet side using the BESM-6 received the processed telemetry information in a minute - half an hour earlier than the American side .

Interesting in this regard is the article by the curator of the Computer Museum in the United Kingdom, Doron Sveid, about how he bought one of the latest BESM-6 in Novosibirsk. The title of the article speaks for itself: "The Russian BESM series of supercomputers, which was developed more than 40 years ago, may testify to the lies of the United States, which declared technological superiority during the Cold War years."



In the USSR, there were many creative teams. The institutes of S.A.Lebedev, I.S.Bruk, V.M.Glushkov are only the largest of them. Sometimes they competed, sometimes complemented each other. And everyone worked on the edge of world science. So far we have been talking mainly about the developments of academician Lebedev, but the rest of the teams were ahead of foreign developments in their work.

For example, at the end of 1948, employees of the Power Engineering Institute. Kruzhizhanovskiy Brooke and Rameev receive a copyright certificate on a computer with a common bus, and in 1950-1951. create it. In this machine, for the first time in the world, instead of electronic tubes, semiconductor (cuprox) diodes are used.

And in the same period when S.A.Lebedev created the BESM-6, academician V.M. Glushkov completed the development of a large computer "Ukraine", the ideas of which were later used in large American computers 1970-s. The MIR computer family created by Academician Glushkov was twenty years ahead of the Americans - these were types of personal computers. In 1967, IBM bought MIR-1 at an exhibition in London: IBM had a dispute over priority with competitors, and the car was bought to prove that the principle of stepwise microprogramming patented by competitors in 1963 was long known Russian and used in serial machines.


The pioneer of computer science and cybernetics, academician Viktor Mikhailovich Glushkov (1923-1982) is known to specialists all over the world for its scientific results of world importance in mathematics, computer science and cybernetics, computing and programming


The next stage in the development of computer technology in the USSR was the work on the creation of a super-computer, the family of which was called Elbrus. This project was started by Lebedev, and after his death he was headed by Burtsev.

The first multiprocessor computing complex Elbrus-1 was launched in 1979 year. It included 10 processors and had a speed of about 15 million operations per second. This car was several years ahead of the leading Western computer models. Symmetric multiprocessor architecture with shared memory, the implementation of protected programming with hardware data types, superscalar processor processing, a single operating system for multiprocessor complexes - all of these features implemented in the Elbrus series, appeared much earlier than in the West, the principle of which is used today day in modern supercomputers.



"Elbrus" in general introduced a number of revolutionary innovations into the theory of computers. These are superscalar (processing more than one instruction per cycle), the implementation of protected programming with hardware data types, pipelining (parallel processing of several instructions), etc. All these possibilities first appeared in Soviet computers. Another major difference between the Elbrus system and others like it, which were previously released in the Soviet Union, is a focus on high-level programming languages. The base language (“AutoCode Elbrus El-76”) was created by V. M. Pentkovsky, and later became the chief architect of Pentium processors.

The next model of this series, "Elbrus-2", has already performed 125 million operations per second. "Elbrus" worked in a number of important systems related to the processing of radar information, they were counted in license plates of Arzamas and Chelyabinsk, and many computers of this model still provide the functioning of anti-missile defense systems and space forces.

The latest model in this series was the Elbrus 3-1, which was distinguished by its modular construction and was designed to solve large scientific and economic problems, including the modeling of physical processes. Its speed reached 500 of millions of operations per second (on some teams), twice as fast as the most productive American supercar of the time, the Cray Y-MP.

After the collapse of the USSR, one of the Elbrus developers, Vladimir Pentkovsky emigrated to the USA and got a job at Intel. Soon he became the lead engineer of the corporation and, under his leadership, Intel developed the Pentium processor in 1993, according to rumors, named after Pentkovsky.

Pentkovsky embodied the Soviet know-how that Intel knew in Intel's processors, and by the year 1995, Intel released a more advanced Pentium Pro processor, which came very close to the Russian 1990 microprocessor of the year El-90, but did not catch up with it , although it was created on 5 years later.

According to Keith Diffendorff, editor of the Microprocessor Report, Intel took over the vast experience and advanced technologies developed in the Soviet Union, including the underlying principles of modern architectures such as SMP (symmetric multiprocessing), superscalar and EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Code - code with explicit instruction parallelism) architecture. On the basis of these principles, computers were already produced in the Union, while in the United States these technologies only "hovered in the minds of scientists (!!!)".

I want to emphasize that the article referred exclusively to computers serially embodied in hardware and mass-produced. Therefore, knowing the actual history of Soviet computing technology, it is difficult to agree with the opinion of its backwardness. Moreover, it is clearly seen that we have consistently been at the forefront in this industry. That's just about it, unfortunately, we do not hear from TV screens or from other media.
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  1. +98
    23 October 2014 09: 01
    Bring back Soviet education !!!
    1. +53
      23 October 2014 09: 39
      Well, back and what's next? Again immigrate abroad ?? It is necessary to create comfortable working and living conditions for our and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere), as well as to develop domestic electronics.
      1. +16
        23 October 2014 10: 34
        Quote: IZUM
        It is necessary to create comfortable working and living conditions for our and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere)

        Here I agree 100%.
        1. sergeybulkin
          -37
          23 October 2014 10: 58
          1995 Intel released the more advanced Pentium Pro processor,

          Pentium Pro the most sloppy Pentium of allthey were released very few, he devoured a lot and was not justified expensive. So Pentkovsky fat minus for this stone.
          1. +3
            23 October 2014 14: 30
            An interesting analysis of Soviet cybernetics and the history of the creation and "dying" of the industry can be found here-

            http://malchish.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=390&Itemid=35
          2. +5
            24 October 2014 09: 15
            Well, if you play games then yes, there is no need for Pro tries, no advantages, but as a server stone it was pretty good.
            and as far as I remember, stump3, although the heir to stump2, had the architecture of a stump pro. (although if you recall the details, then stump3 is stump2 + KNI).
          3. Shur
            0
            25 October 2014 01: 09
            It was necessary to say it in those days, now this is history.
          4. +3
            25 October 2014 12: 37
            Pentium Pro the most sloppy Pentium of all


            Somehow, I was approached by the leadership of the local BTI, about 12 years ago I installed a network for them (in the sense, a computer network). I was very surprised, since I had long ago departed from these matters, but went to see, the boss was an old friend of mine. The server was just the Dell Pentium Pro, and the Dell Pentium workstations on Windows 95 (I already noticed that I did it for a long time). So it turned out that they did the repair and dragged from place to place, but they can’t reconnect, their programmers from Windows 95 just fell into a stupor. It turned out that during all this time, the batteries in UPS (uninterrupted power supply) were changed several times and that’s all (they never had a full-time programmer), the system turned on automatically at 7.00 and turned off at 19.00 and that’s all - for almost 12 years there has been no problem the provision there has not changed much (there simply will not add or decrease), well, you can’t play the only modern toys.
            I wrote this about "the most lame Pentium of all", although to be honest, I was also surprised by such stability.
          5. +1
            25 October 2014 19: 54
            I have one in my collection. Huge, heavy and beautiful.
            It has a lot of gold laughing
        2. +16
          23 October 2014 15: 29
          "We need to create comfortable working and living conditions for our engineers and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere)"

          Comfortable conditions, it’s not all, but first of all: a person should be at the head - a fanatic of his craft and tough as Joseph Vissarionovich; and secondly, it is necessary for young people (students first of all) to set specific tasks in classrooms that have real, embodied goals. Enough term papers, dissertations to do in the table (or rather in the trash). Let each student (especially a graduate student) develop a specific production task. Let them pay (industrialists or the state) for a successful task. stop
          1. +1
            23 October 2014 17: 30
            Let me disagree. Every 5 students will not be able to collect information in order to come up with something really useful. A student in a diploma must prove that he can become an engineer.
            1. +4
              24 October 2014 09: 41
              ... engineer
              1. 0
                24 October 2014 12: 18
                Sumptuously!!!!
          2. +3
            24 October 2014 23: 36
            In 1991-92 wrote a diploma. At the department, they proposed to come up with a theme on their own, taking into account the requirements of the plant, where before that 3 years had been practicing. He proposed to change the technical process with a corresponding change in one installation. It was very interesting. Before me, development in this industry was carried out in the 60s (there was no other literature. Similar patents, too). The curator agreed on everything. I found errors myself. Remade several times from the middle. It is a pity the Union broke up and with it the factory sunk into the summer.
        3. +1
          25 October 2014 21: 51
          It is no use greedy to raise salaries. An example is the State Duma, the government and other government agencies. No matter how much come on, all the same, America will offer more to the individual traitors of Russia, just to spite Russia.
      2. +2
        23 October 2014 10: 56
        So return and create! am
      3. tkhonov66
        -6
        23 October 2014 11: 52
        The USSR did not possess the most important "technological secret" of the "west"
        - the secret of ECONOMICALLY EFFECTIVE MASS PRODUCTION ...
        8 - ((
        .
        Our "most talented engineers and technicians" - really could have made (and did!) MASTERPIECES - but only in PERSONALITY ...
        - but to launch such a "MASTERPIECE" - "IN SERIES"? !!!
        8 - ((
        - It was beyond the capabilities of the "socialist economy", where the main motto was: "plan - at any cost" ... And about QUALITY - it was not even discussed anywhere (except in military acceptance and special acceptance).
        .
        And without QUALITY - who needed that "plan at any cost", besides the Politburo reports?
        8 - (((
        1. +28
          23 October 2014 12: 48
          Quote: tkhonov66
          The USSR did not possess the most important "technological secret" of the "west"
          - the secret of ECONOMICALLY EFFECTIVE MASS PRODUCTION ...


          They owned and produced and the products were competitive with the "western" ones so much that they were not allowed to enter the western markets until they were banned at the legislative level.

          Quote: tkhonov66
          Our "most talented engineers and technicians" - really could have made (and did!) MASTERPIECES - but only in PERSONALITY ...
          - but to launch such a "MASTERPIECE" - "IN SERIES"? !!!


          FACTORIES were created for the masterpieces so that they would go into the series.

          Quote: tkhonov66
          - It was beyond the capabilities of the "socialist economy", where the main motto was: "plan - at any cost" ... And about QUALITY - it was not even discussed anywhere (except in military acceptance and special acceptance).


          They fought for quality right up to their removal from posts and landings, but the desire to make it as cheap as possible played a role here ... They didn’t allow marriage to import, but I agree to the domestic market, paid less attention to quality, especially at the end of the 80s. hi
          1. +2
            23 October 2014 13: 14
            Quote: Vladimir73
            but the desire to make it as cheap as possible played a role here ...

            Moreover, when calculating the cost, they proceeded from wholesale prices arbitrarily set by the state, and not from real market prices, which were not in the USSR after 1931. And in conditions of artificial prices it is impossible to correctly calculate the cheapness or high cost. The very concept of profitability and loss-making in the USSR was conditional, saying little.
            ----------
            My brother has been involved in electronics and control systems from the mid-70s to this day. According to him, the introduction of computers in the Soviet economy began back in the 60s, but basically they were highly specialized devices that have one or more programs used mainly in military equipment (such as ballistic computers, etc.) and in automated machine tools. There were also large computers, they were used mainly for payroll or warehouse accounting.
            There were practically no truly universal computers capable of solving different sets of tasks in the USSR, only piecewise and mainly for military and space purposes.
            There were almost no imported computers until the 90s, but there were a lot of imported CNC machines, mostly German, but also Japanese. My brother works in the military industry. Now I called him back and clarified everything anew. According to him, back in the late 70s, German CNC machines and German tools for them prevailed at their enterprise (now it belongs to the Rosatom system).
            1. +7
              23 October 2014 13: 46
              You contradict yourself.
              ".. the introduction of computers into the Soviet economy began back in the 60s, but mostly these were highly specialized devices with one or several programs used mainly in military equipment (such as ballistic computers, etc.) .."
              So where was it introduced, in the economy or military equipment?
              As for specialized computers in military equipment, however, I myself have come across this. On highly specialized computers for machine tools is already questionable. Economically unprofitable. In the mid-late 80s, he himself came across domestic CNC systems ... For example, in the systems 2R22, 2S85, a computer of the "Electronics-60" type was used, which at that time was quite widespread and was used in various fields. The computer controlled the "body kit" of the CNC system, which was indeed quite specialized.
              About the lack of universal computers that can solve different complexes of tasks, IMHO, complete nonsense. I do not think that a specialized machine was built for each EC. No funds are enough for this. In the USSR, the VC network was not sickly, its VCs were located at large research institutes, universities and enterprises. And, by the way, civilian military centers were sometimes used by the military to solve their problems.
              1. +1
                23 October 2014 13: 54
                Quote: tolancop
                You contradict yourself.

                I do not contradict myself anywhere, do not compose. The CNC of the machine is actually also a computer, rigidly attached to certain tasks.
                About the fact that it is "economically unprofitable" - complete nonsense.
                1. +13
                  23 October 2014 18: 09
                  Contradict. In one phrase, you have both about the economy and the military. So I do not compose.
                  CNC machine tool is a computer with special software that controls the "body" of the machine. I even gave an example of CNC systems - 2S85: a computer of the "Electronics-60" type (used in a heap of equipment, including a PC), assembled in 1 crate (processor board, ROM board, communication board) and hung on the input system - output "E-60" crate with drive boards and electroautomatics board. And in a specific case - when the need arose, the crate with the computer was removed from the 2S85 CNC system (milling machine) and plugged into the 2P22 system (lathe). Naturally, the ROM board with the software for the lathe in 2P22 remained. And here's an ambush: the computer from the milling machine perfectly controlled the lathe. And also, when the processor board of the machine tool "flew", for the time of repair, they fitted me a processor board with a personal computer. And she worked, an infection, no worse than her own.
          2. +10
            24 October 2014 10: 58
            ..... Hehe .... A little about quality ...... My neighbor still has a refrigerator ("pot-bellied") on native parts -released in 1973 .... Show me at least one of those who have worked for more than 10 years ... hi
            1. +3
              24 October 2014 20: 59
              Refrigerator "Saratov" 1962 is alive and well ... works for the good of Russia smile
              1. wax
                +3
                25 October 2014 03: 13
                I put you a plus, but decided to object in a comic manner. I remember after the war my mother ironed shirts, trousers, especially seams (not for the sake of beauty, but only against the reproduction of lice, which was very important at that time) with a heavy iron, in which glowing coals from the stove were laid inside. The iron, as you might guess or know, was a cast-iron shoe (?) With a coal container with a lid with a handle on the hinges at the back and a hook in front, so that you could drive a polished surface over the linen. I think that he was a pre-war manufacture. So, if he had not been handed over for scrap, even now he could have served as the truth and the truth. And no one needs electricity. Even in the wild forest you can use. It is easy to imagine that he could serve another hundred years!
              2. 0
                25 October 2014 16: 59
                Quote: peter mechkaev
                Refrigerator "Saratov" 1962 is alive and well ... works for the good of Russia smile

                For me "Biryusa" worked for more than 30 years until the freezer leaked out, and it would continue to work ...
          3. +1
            25 October 2014 00: 03
            Vladimir73. I agree with your arguments and support!
        2. +22
          23 October 2014 13: 27
          The problem was not in the mass production itself as such. There was simply an inertia of thinking that such things were exclusively for special tasks: defense industry, space, science. In the West, microelectronics was moved to the masses, to the entertainment sector, and this gave a strong impetus to development, the ideology of ala appeared: "let's stick a microprocessor into a washing machine and see what happens" (exaggerating smile ). Do you think we would now behold the intel core i7 if not for the gaming industry, for example? Or would there be now in our smartphones snapdragons under 1,5 / 2 GHz multicore if it were not for the development of the same Internet, multimedia, etc.? I strongly doubt that such computing power would not be in demand. What percentage of PC owners, other than for entertainment, use the computing power of their 2/4 core processors to solve any practical and scientific problems? Unambiguously minuscule ... The electronic industry of the USSR became a hostage to the ideology of the state, unfortunately, since the sphere of services and entertainment in our country developed much more modestly than science and defense, i.e. we didn’t have a market that would allow us to move on, develop and improve the direction, orders from the Ministry of Defense and Science are very little for the development of large-scale production of microelectronics. We usually did not sell military equipment (from which we could somehow receive dividends), but gave our "friends" almost for free. They didn’t participate in the international patenting system (or almost didn’t participate), therefore, it can be said, out of the kindness of our hearts, they fed Western competitors with ideas and technical solutions. sad
          1. +2
            23 October 2014 13: 39
            Quote: adept666
            There was simply an inertia of thinking that such things were exclusively for special tasks: defense, space, science. In the West, microelectronics moved to the masses, to the sphere of entertainment and this gave a strong imp

            This is not the inertia of thinking, but the organic and fatal vice of the socialist economy - a weak connection with demand. More precisely, very weak. The entire production program of any socialist enterprise (quantity, nomenclature, consumers, price, etc.) was a set of planned indicators and was actually untied from demand. In conditions of war or preparation for war, this was tolerable, but in peacetime it inevitably led to a lag. And this could not be eliminated within the framework of that system.
            Quote: adept666
            We usually did not sell military equipment (from which at least somehow it would be possible to receive dividends), but gave "friends" for free almost

            They did not receive dividends, because they supplied military equipment mainly to insolvent partners. There is nothing to be done. The chosen political course dictated the choice of such partners.
            Sorry if something is wrong. As I think, so I write.
          2. tkhonov66
            0
            23 October 2014 14: 49
            "...
            The problem was not in serial production itself. There was simply an inertia of thinking that such things were exclusively for special tasks: defense, space, science.
            ...
            This is not the inertia of thinking, but the organic and fatal vice of the socialist economy - a weak connection with demand.
            ..."
            .
            - an organic and fatal vice of the socialist economy - he was by no means alone. And one of the essentials for the market - it was
            fundamentally PLAN demand curve.
            - I.e. any household goods, the cost of which was at least slightly higher than the average salary, had practically no chance of selling. I remember at one factory they reproduced (stripped off) the first single-board (dual-chip) speech synthesizer from TI ...
            - They wanted to make an interactive device for teaching English on it (as in the original) ... Well, such a talking box - like a calculator ...
            - We calculated how much this toy would cost - it turned out to be 200re (while a portable tape recorder could be bought for 140re). Well, who will need this "teaching device" for beginners - for 200 re?
            .
            - And here in the "west" - there have ALWAYS been RICH consumers who will be able to give almost ANY money for an "unusual" product. At least for the sake of "fun". And thus support the costs of the manufacturer of the technological novelty.
            .
            - But in the USSR - everyone was "equal" - at least officially ...
            1. +2
              23 October 2014 16: 58
              Quote: tkhonov66
              But in the USSR - everyone was "equal" - at least officially ...

              No, not all.
              For example, a bus driver earned (officially) one and a half times more than an average grocery store director.
              But this is official.
              But in fact the second lived many times richer than the first. And even ten times. And he had in his apartment, including imported electronics.
              It was called "to each according to his work." And from the TV screen a stream of lies poured that everyone lives in a just society.
              And what is amazing is that many yearn for this system.
              Did everyone work in trade then? Or in a car service? sad
              Although many of these yearning then obviously did not live, or walked under the table.
              1. +5
                23 October 2014 17: 28
                The bus driver did not live much worse than the director of the grocery store, for the simple reason that a lot of cash passed through his hands, some of which stuck to his hands. The workers who lived in the defense were worst of all, there was nothing to steal. On the other hand, they got apartments quickly, the salary was quite decent. On the whole, I agree that everything good was done in the USSR primarily for defense industry. The first calculator Texako held in his hands in his first year in 1977, before that he did not even suspect their existence. Although the institute had a powerful EU machine he called.
                1. +1
                  23 October 2014 18: 02
                  Quote: Motors1991
                  The bus driver lived not much worse than the director of the grocery store, for the simple reason that a lot of cash passed through his hands,

                  What kind of money? I worked on the bus for 2 years until I returned to the army. There were some "left" pennies, which you can still give back to the locksmiths for a drink and a snack during the repair. You won't even have enough of them, you will pay back from your salary. Work is hard labor. To send gentlemen from among the Internet communists there, all the nonsense would disappear from the head. You get up at 3-4 in the morning, depending on the schedule, but not later than 4.00. Behind the wheel really 8-10 hours a day, the schedule is "sliding" or six days. The salary is 350-400 rubles per month. But what's the use of it? In Russia in the 80s, almost nothing could be bought, only "get it". Of course, there was sausage at 9-12 rubles per kilo in market stores. There were also sausages for 7 rubles a kilo and terribly expensive bacon, plus Armenian cognac for 30-50 rubles a bottle. But in ordinary stores there are either empty counters or queues. Although I have been to Soviet Ukraine, the situation there was markedly different. This, by the way, annoyed many.
                  Quote: Motors1991
                  the workers of the defense industry lived worst of all, there was nothing to steal.

                  I don’t know, I didn’t work in the military industry.
                  1. +4
                    23 October 2014 18: 16
                    Quote: Sour
                    There would send gentlemen from among the Internet Communists, all the nonsense would have weathered from the head.

                    Yes, don’t get killed so you don’t get killed :-)
                    1. -7
                      23 October 2014 18: 26
                      Quote: saag
                      Yes, don’t get killed so you don’t get killed :-)

                      I will be killed only after the last of you sniffs and dies, as befits a red-faced parasite and parasite.
                      But not before.
                      And besides parasites and parasites among you there is no one and was not. A communist worker, it's like a herbivore wolf.
                      Don't wait, clowns. And your "red revenge" will not wait. In the best case for you, you will continue to blow drunk snot on the keyboard. And at worst, keep Kvachkov's company. We will provide this for you, the power is with us, not with you.
                      1. +17
                        23 October 2014 18: 35
                        Quote: Sour
                        I will be killed only after the last of you sniffs and dies, as befits a red-faced

                        How you sausage then !!! Why is communism so bad for you, a society without wars and troubles, without the rich and poor, you did not live there, but condemn it. Judging by your mention of Kvachkov, are you guarding them Chubais-like?
                      2. +11
                        23 October 2014 19: 33
                        Quote: Sour
                        I will be killed only after the last of you sniffs and dies, as befits a red-faced parasite and parasite.

                        Eat Snickers, heal with Orbit - at once it will feel better!
                        And then, God forbid, drool with your saliva and die ahead of time, you will not see a bright future ...
                      3. +1
                        25 October 2014 17: 17
                        Quote: Wheel
                        Quote: Sour
                        I will be killed only after the last of you sniffs and dies, as befits a red-faced parasite and parasite.

                        Eat Snickers, heal with Orbit - at once it will feel better!
                        And then, God forbid, drool with your saliva and die ahead of time, you will not see a bright future ...

                        I support! "Red-assed parasites and parasites" otrohal such a country, protected from all external enemies, and supposedly hardworking, but greedy "effective managers" about it ... is it ...
                        Where would they be (and indeed would they be) without those "red-asses" if they had not defeated Hitler?
                        Yes, there were among the "red-assed" parasites and parasites who attached themselves to them for the sake of a career, who at the first opportunity suddenly became "businessmen" and sold the country to their enemies for their personal well-being.
                      4. +4
                        23 October 2014 21: 04
                        Good citizen! Don't you dare to write 18 million people into "herbivorous wolves"? Of which there were many very worthy people. Workers. If you have not met such people, then apparently you were very unlucky ... Or just did not notice?
                      5. +4
                        23 October 2014 21: 29
                        I’ll add, as in the Penza region they picked up a girl, not a shoulder, it turned out - the Tatar, all in gold, went to Penza, in a conversation said that her elder sister was married, spent 19 thousand rubles for the wedding, in those days the Volga cost 16 thousand, and then it struck me why in the same region, the Russian village is poor and the Tatar rich. Probably because the Tatars did not build communism and lived for themselves, by the way, like our zapadentsy, and the Russians all over the world were sick, like that world is not living well, that’s, they got sick.
                      6. +4
                        24 October 2014 11: 47
                        Quote: Motors1991
                        so then it struck me why in the same region, the Russian village is poor and the Tatar rich.

                        ----------------------
                        Why hit? Tatars usually live in a clan order, try to support their own, so that later your relatives support you somehow. Russian clans do not, Russian thinks and loves more broadly, or vice versa. Eastern peoples are more united in terms of nepotism. The more united the people, the easier it is to survive ...
                      7. +1
                        24 October 2014 17: 42
                        My mother is from the Belgorod region, I consciously remember the end of the 60s and the beginning of the 70s, when we visited our grandmother, my grandfather was still alive, so then the village lived as if it were offline, it’s a problem to get to the district center, but it’s impossible to get into the mud but they lived and did not live in poverty, kept a lot of cattle, worked, despised drunkards, and then from the mid-seventies, as a breakdown, general drunkenness began. In the eightieth year I came to visit, and my childhood friends who did not leave were already finished alcoholics and care for them, wherever moonshine can be obtained, and the Tatars see it is not inert elk, because their villages are rich and our poor, drunken man poboku.Pochemu all right? Do not znayu.A we also drink, but not to this extent.
                      8. -1
                        25 October 2014 01: 33
                        Is it easier for others to survive?
                      9. Asan Ata
                        0
                        25 October 2014 00: 28
                        Just the Tatars do not thump.
                      10. Kassandra
                        0
                        29 October 2014 09: 42
                        yeah, but the Uzbeks do not indulge in anasha and nashivaem
                  2. +4
                    23 October 2014 21: 20
                    On a city route, especially in a big city, it is hard labor that I agree to work on the bus, but on the suburbs, intercity, I'm sorry, 50-100 rubles a day, for that kind of money you can get up early. Of course, in Ukraine the 80s are much easier there was a sausage for 7 rubles bought for a snack when it simply wasn’t available, which was cheaper at hand. We had 2 rubles a kilo in all stores, there was no Armenian cognac, but there was Simferopol, Odessa, three stars for 8 rubles. Honestly, in those days traveled around Russia, the poverty of stores just oppressed, stop and buy up I'm on the night, with the exception of Moscow and the region, the problem.
                2. +3
                  23 October 2014 20: 17
                  Quote: Motors1991
                  But in general, I agree that everything good was done in the USSR primarily for defense.

                  In Bulgaria, did the personalki.
                  IMCO-1 ("Individual Micro Computer") - was produced from 1980 to 1982. A close counterpart to the Apple II. RAM 48 KB (expandable to 64 KB), ROM 12 KB. The central processor is 6502 at a frequency of 1 MHz. It did not have a drive (at that time in Bulgaria they were not yet produced), external memory on magnetic tape. The price at that time was 4190 leva (about 2600 dollars).
                  1. 0
                    23 October 2014 21: 06
                    Bulgarians in this business were well done. Not bad copied bourgeois equipment. Although they were not supposed to do computers for the division of labor in CMEA. But they made good personalized copies.
                  2. 0
                    24 October 2014 20: 00
                    In our school "Agatha" stood (also on Apple 2). We were still small for computer science, but we were allowed to take a look and play. Black and red forever in my head laughing... And I still remember the Polish "Mazovia".
                3. +2
                  25 October 2014 17: 13
                  To each his own...
                  In 1977, he calculated the tasks of SOMPROMATU on a university machine, and not only for himself, but for the whole stream, the machine seems to be MIR-1. The main thing would be a desire
                  Sincerely ...
                4. 0
                  26 October 2014 13: 38
                  To each his own...
                  In 1977, he calculated SOPROMAT tasks on a university machine, and not only for himself, but for the whole stream, the machine seems to be NAIRI-2. The main thing would be a desire
                  Sincerely ...
              2. 0
                23 October 2014 20: 07
                Quote: Sour
                Although many of these yearning then obviously did not live, or walked under the table.

                And you from what year of birth, if not a secret?
              3. +5
                23 October 2014 20: 58
                Well, why lie that the theft of the director of the grocery store was called "to each according to his work." The principle was normal. And for it to work, rather big structures worked. Parasitism was a criminal offense. And thieving directors (and not only grocery stores) were sometimes leaned against the wall ... There was a funny office called OBKHSS. And other comrades were already engaged in especially enterprising ...
            2. 0
              25 October 2014 22: 11
              tkhonov66: "This is not the inertia of thinking, but an organic and irreparable defect of the socialist economy - a weak connection with demand."

              Why don't we make these goods now, because now there is no what you call: "an organic and irreparable vice of the socialist economy - a weak connection with demand." Where are our personal computers in 30 years of restructuring? This is called "an organic and irreparable vice of the capitalist economy - a weak connection with demand." And the only desire to fill their pockets with money to the detriment of the Motherland.
          3. +1
            23 October 2014 15: 53
            very correct and competent comment. our computer solved the problems of science, the military industrial complex and production, but for the masses there was no need for it, because the hand didn’t consider it necessary to connect, for example, a refrigerator with electronic brains. If you thought it would be necessary ahead of the rest))
          4. Andof odessa
            +2
            24 October 2014 12: 44
            The essence of the economy of the USSR was to close the needs of the population or the state. The essence of the market is to create and satisfy demand. therefore, the approach is different and the result. If you need an eternal Soviet apparatus for simple and clear goals (it will survive the first 3 years it will last forever), I need to demonstrate it no worse, or I'm better than a neighbor, then they certainly were better (3 years of work and emission, but it looks like it’s shiny in the corner and shimmers)
        3. +14
          23 October 2014 13: 46
          The article says about the created in the iron and production cars. The same BESM-6 was produced for a long time and in a large series.
          About low quality. This is another myth. Think of clothes, food, televisions and refrigerators. Remember the houses and machines built at that time.
          This is now neither a QA nor a RESPONSIBILITY for QUALITY.
          And where does the Politburo ??? Is this the type from the series that the Liberals now decipher the PB dive bomber project as "Politburo"? Enough to spit in the USSR, we are still holding on to it.
          1. +1
            23 October 2014 13: 59
            Quote: qwert
            This is now neither a QA nor a RESPONSIBILITY for QUALITY.

            Now nobody will take low-quality products if there is an alternative to it. Sorry, I’m heading the company myself, albeit a small one. I am the OTC for cars and forklifts that I purchase.
            And then everyone did not care about quality. Products will go to the warehouse in any way. Therefore, they came up with OTC, which was of little use.
            Quote: qwert
            Enough already in the USSR do not care, we still hold on to its groundwork.

            Is it about oil rigs? I agree. For the last 25 years, the USSR has rested only on them; Russia, unfortunately, is still the same.
            But the presence of oil in our bowels is not the merit of Marx and Lenin.
            1. +7
              23 October 2014 21: 14
              OTK was invented not because unsuitable products did not go to the warehouse.
              You, apparently, are completely unfamiliar with the OTC system. OTK was controlled by the WHOLE production process, sometimes after EVERY operation. This is a NORMAL construction of the production process.
              And then the quality was far from "all spit".
              1. tkhonov66
                +2
                24 October 2014 10: 11
                "...
                OTK was controlled by the WHOLE production process, sometimes after EVERY operation. This is a NORMAL construction of the production process.
                ..."
                .
                yes, normal ...
                But OTC - obeyed DIRECTIONS OF THE COMPANY ...
                - and if the company "burned a plan"
                then the management of the enterprise - it was already "not up to quality"
                And the obedient OTK - obediently "took it under the hood" ...
                - with all the leaking ...
                .
                Especially since, say, in the semiconductor industry - after packing the chips and sorting them out - it was supposed to be done
                - thermoelectric training
                - sorting
                - thermal cycling
                - sorting
                - exposure at high temperature (artificial aging)
                - weekly delay
                - final sorting
                - shipment to the warehouse.
                So.
                Not a single expert can distinguish a microcircuit that has just passed corpusation from a microcircuit that has passed after corpusation - the entire set of the above operations (which removed "potentially unreliable microcircuits" from the batch).
                - and therefore for CIVIL PRODUCTS
                All of the above operations - DO NOT FULL!
                .
                We glued the chip into the output frame, welded the contact pads of the chip to the output of the case, formed the microcircuit case - filled the output frame with epoxy compound (with alumina and soot - the Schaub was black and opaque 8-), cut off the technological jumpers on the output frame (they were necessary to the conclusions of the frame did not crumble in the absence of a formed microcircuit case).
                - AND EVERYTHING - THE CHIP IS READY!
                checked the functionality, eliminated the marriage of functioning, crossed ... ... and ALL GOOD - in a warehouse of finished products!
                .
                And thermal training, thermal cycling, thermoelectric training - high-tech microcircuits are already in the BOARD. Now RAPE all this marriage - it was up to the service of warranty repair.
                .
                This is how things stand with CIVIL semiconductor products.
                .
                And I repeat ...
                - For the MILITARY RECEPTION - such violations of the process technology - were IMPOSSIBLE. And for OTC - it is quite acceptable ... Since the PLAN is the LAW.
                And the quality of the products - although it is desirable - but by no means NECESSARY ...
                8-))
                1. +1
                  25 October 2014 01: 07
                  It’s very bad that you had such a situation with the work of the Quality Control Department, whose work was blocked by the management of the enterprise. And, apparently, this sad phenomenon was quite widespread, otherwise it would not have been necessary to introduce the State Acceptance Office, which does not obey the management of the enterprise (maybe someone remembers another one).
                  I was more fortunate. OTC worked fine at my factory. Nevertheless, it happened once to witness the distribution of the head of the Quality Department by the chief engineer and the head of the technical bureau for failure to carry out control operations provided for by the technological process. It was possible to come to an agreement with our OTC so that they wouldn’t screw up a refund after a minor marriage. OTKshki walked towards this issue, they simply returned the handed over for alteration, since no one could consciously engage in marriage. But to agree that the OTC missed the deliberate marriage was impossible.
                  With Military Acceptance, things were much better for us. But that is not without problems. A couple of times personally encountered military representatives. 1st turned out to be a normal adequate person. He did not raise a universal hi about minor flaws, although he had every right to. He demanded to eliminate - eliminated and the story ended. But on the 2nd ran into - it was something. Not only that, stupid, but also UNLIMITED! (This was a question for his leadership). The product according to APPEARANCE was slightly different from the image on paper, but was made in full accordance with the documentation, i.e. as it should be. It proved impossible to prove either to him. Calmed down only after the design engineer handed him a paper that everything was done correctly.
                  And about the impossibility of violating the process for products subject to military acceptance - not everything is so cloudless. They brought an automotive voltage regulator once to repair. It was marked as a past military representative. But when I started to repair, I found something that made my eyes go up: the device was DOOMED to failure. And obviously the whole batch of appliances was defective. And the marriage was clearly driven away with the knowledge and participation of more than one official. At the time, such things were called diversion and sabotage with the corresponding conclusions.
                  Eh .. long ago it was ...
            2. +1
              23 October 2014 22: 10
              Quote: Sour
              I am the OTC for cars and forklifts that I purchase.

              At the Ford plant there is a quality control department, and the capitalists have a quality department at all major industries.
              OTK-department of technical control.
              1. tkhonov66
                +1
                24 October 2014 10: 27
                "...
                At the Ford plant there is a quality control department, and the capitalists have a quality department at all major industries.
                OTK-department of technical control.
                ..."
                .
                - Well, of course!
                Since in the conditions of COMPETITION, a loss of quality is a loss of the market (the consumer simply goes to competitors who monitor the quality), and together with the market - ALL CAPITAL OF THE OWNER.
                .
                Therefore - it came to anecdotal situations - for example, in 1970-80 - INTERNAL-CIVIL (!) Quality standards in Japanese companies (Mitsubishi, NEC, Sony) - were higher than other EXTERNAL quality standards for special acceptance (VP, 5th 9th) in Russia.
                .
                Well, judge for yourself: after all, in the conditions of a PLANNED economy, the loss of quality is, in the worst case, just a "scatter" on the carpet at the management, which scattering - it usually ends up taking into account "objective reasons" and a promise to "analyze the marriage" and " to correct the identified deficiencies ".
                - And this is true! Well, why "tear your back" if, with a planned economy, EVERYTHING IS PRODUCED (with any quality) MUST BE CONSUMPED without fail (in order to avoid economic losses inherent ONLY to capitalism with the crises of capitalist overproduction that are organically inherent ONLY TO IT - crises of capitalist overproduction 8-).
                .
                - And ... (inhaled!)
                Paaartiiii Leyenina - Siil na-arodnaya -
                Us to the triumph ... (breathed!) Kommuniiiz-ma ve-eeeeeetttttt!
                (loud, prolonged applause, turning into a long standing ovation, ending with deep collective satisfaction ...)
                eight-))))
          2. -2
            23 October 2014 14: 12
            Quote: qwert
            Remember the houses built at that time

            I know many houses built in the 50-60s, which fell to smithereens, sometimes with victims.
            And do not remember. I myself live in such a house, built in 1962. Barely holding on.
            At the same time, houses 50-100 years older stand without problems.
            I wonder why?
            1. +4
              23 October 2014 15: 27
              in fact, houses of the 50-60s ("Khrushchevs" panel) were built for 25 years (within the framework of promises to provide everyone with housing), then they had to be demolished and replaced with new houses. Brick five-story buildings of those years were calculated for 50-60 years. It's good that in the USSR there was a so-called coefficient of three - everything was done with a safety margin of 2, 3 times. The houses that were built at the beginning of the 20th century were built for centuries. "Stalinkas" are designed for 120 years and still stand perfectly. Since the 80s, I am silent about the current buildings and constructions, many people have heard of water parks and even brick ones in Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities (it all depends on the developer's conscience).
            2. +2
              23 October 2014 18: 18
              Sour
              I know many houses built in the 50-60s, which fell to smithereens, sometimes with victims.
              And do not remember. I myself live in such a house, built in 1962. Barely holding on.
              At the same time, houses 50-100 years older stand without problems.
              I wonder why?

              Because they built and did not shout Glory to Nicholas II. Give !!! We will fulfill and exceeded !!! Five-year plan for three years, etc. etc. At our tire factory they made the Hero of SOTs. Labor. Zhiguli camera is made exactly 6min. And our heroine made 11 pieces per hour. Do not say how many minutes per hour. Everyone wants to see what is beneficial to him. Remember the earthquake in Lenakan. Houses rained, it turns out there was almost no reinforcement. So there were always no good songs about before. Although I am for the USSR. For the best sides of socialism.
          3. tkhonov66
            +8
            23 October 2014 15: 04
            "...
            Think of clothes, food, televisions and refrigerators.
            ..."
            - I remember ...
            It was a LOTTERY.
            Lucky (goods released at the beginning of the middle of the month) - will work.
            It will not lead (the goods were released at the end of the month-quarter) - you will not climb out of warranty repairs.
            8 - ((
            .
            And even better - to be able to fix everything YOURSELF ... Or to have a "handy" relative or friend. And spare parts and radio components (and especially with "VP") - this is the eternal "difference" ...
            8-))
            .
            .
            "...
            Remember the houses and machines built at that time.
            ..."
            .
            - I remember ...
            My father then (in 1976) received a new apartment - as a war veteran ...
            So, I remember that the outer window did NOT OPEN, since the outer frame was inserted WITH SUCH ANSWER relative to the inner frame, that the outer window did NOT CREEP into the open window of the inner frame and rested against its window frame.
            .
            Floor slabs on the ceiling - did not form a "flat ceiling" - but clearly stood a little "house" ... the center of the room - was 7 centimeters higher than the walls ...
            .
            But the apartment was warm, durable ...
            Now my sister lives in it. She already leveled the ceiling ...
            But the window - as it did not open - never opens.
            In the USSR, everything has been done for centuries.
            8-))
            .
            "...
            Enough already in the USSR do not care, we still hold on to its groundwork.
            ..."
            .
            - Well, why is "enough"?
            Glance and memory - must be sober - so as not to step on the same "RAKE" again.
            - so something!
            1. +7
              23 October 2014 16: 51
              HERE I can’t disagree directly. The USSR had both pros and cons. And we, according to our centuries-old tradition, instead of keeping the pluses, leveling the minuses, demolished "to the ground, and then .."
            2. +3
              23 October 2014 17: 26
              I wonder how long the current new buildings will stand? Lack of housing - is present now. I lived in a new building in St. Petersburg, Parnas district, Northern Valley, who knows. There was a muzzle from the double-glazed windows. The repair is such that it would be better not to do it. Linoleum crawled out from under the baseboards on centimeter at least. Tightened?
          4. +1
            23 October 2014 18: 08
            qwert
            About low quality. This is another myth. Think of clothes, food, televisions and refrigerators. Remember the houses and machines built at that time.

            How many "high-quality" TVs I repaired in Soviet times (after 1983) there are not so many stars in the sky. Let's talk about what you know for sure. And we don't need party activists' lectures.
            1. tkhonov66
              +1
              24 October 2014 10: 53
              "...
              How many "high-quality" TVs I repaired in Soviet times (after 1983) there are not so many stars in the sky.
              ..."
              .
              - ABOUT!
              .
              And I even KNOW - why ...
              - because - the thermo-electric training laid down by the technological process, followed by the WEEKLY EXPOSURE in the atmosphere of dried air (or nitrogen) and the final sorting - CIVIL semiconductor products - were already soldered into the boards.
              .
              I remember when the first Soviet "personnel" (based on micro-VAX) "Electronics-82" appeared. One of these was presented to Brezhnev himself.
              - So he then said:
              They say that our computer technology often breaks down.
              Not true. Here they gave me a computer - so it does not break at all.
              .
              And that was also true!
              .
              - I know HOW they "made" this very "Brezhnev" computer.
              For those who are not in the know - in the "system unit" of this computer there were two 120 mm fans (well, since in some places on the "system" board and the 531st series stood ... on emitter-coupled logic, which operates in a linear mode ) - well, that is, this "motherboard" was BREAKING - not very weak ...
              - so...
              .
              Gentlemen-developers took the usual serial computer (from the factory conveyor). Checked - it works!
              1) Turned off both fans
              2) We covered all the ventilation slots of the "system unit" with pillows.
              Turned on ...
              - 3 minutes - and KIRDYK! (found a burnt chip - replaced)
              Turned on ...
              - 5 minutes - and KIRDYK! (found a burnt chip - replaced)
              Turned on ...
              - 7 minutes - and KIRDYK! (found a burnt chip - replaced)
              ...
              Turned on ...
              - 15 minutes - and KIRDYK! (found a burnt chip - replaced)
              Turned on ...
              - 30 minutes - "normal flight"!
              - atlichna!
              Fans connected - and sent
              "serial domestic computer" - as a gift to everyone's beloved Leonid Ilyich ...
              .
              like this!
              Everything is simple - like cowards.
              8-)
              1. +4
                24 October 2014 16: 41
                Quote: tkhonov66
                "...
                Everything is simple - like cowards.
                8-)


                "Ostap was carrying ..."

                Neither the technological chain, nor the organization of the production of microcircuits, you simply do not know and, apparently, you have never seen. Discussing this is pointless.

                Microcircuits "microVAX" were not produced in the USSR. They were never produced ANYWHERE, which means that no microcomputer based on them existed. VAX is a type of computer architecture.

                I have not heard anything about the Elektronika 82 microcomputer. Apparently it was made in one copy - "for dear Leonid Ilyich."

                The K531 series of chips is, let’s know, TTLSh logic, not emitter-coupled logic.

                Chips of emitter-coupled logic (in the USSR it is the 100th, 500th and 1500th series) NEVER IN AN ONE COUNTRY OF THE WORLD were used as an element base of a microcomputer. It is simply impossible to do.

                Well, etc. - with all the stops.

                Poor TVs that you "repaired". Apparently thanks to people like you, and not to manufacturers, the country has always had their "deficit".

                I can't say anything about your "cowards", but the "flight" of your fantasies is really shocking. Apparently, the seasonal exacerbation ... "inspiration".
          5. xren
            0
            24 October 2014 01: 20
            Remember the houses built at that time


            Yeah, I remembered. Very krivoruky builders were.
            1. tkhonov66
              0
              24 October 2014 10: 57
              "...
              Yeah, I remembered. Very krivoruky builders were.
              ..."
              .
              - It was like a "military builder"
        4. +1
          24 October 2014 20: 25
          Quote: tkhonov66
          The USSR did not possess the most important "technological secret" of the "west"
          - the secret of ECONOMICALLY EFFECTIVE MASS PRODUCTION ...
          8 - ((
          .
          Our "most talented engineers and technicians" - really could have made (and did!) MASTERPIECES - but only in PERSONALITY ...
          - but to launch such a "MASTERPIECE" - "IN SERIES"? !!!
          8 - ((

          Why, BESM-6 was a fairly massive computer. Mass applies only to staff. Somewhere we made a mistake and did not pay due attention to microelectronics. Now we must not repeat the same mistake.
        5. 0
          25 October 2014 22: 00
          Do not carry nonsense. The Politburo was not interested in enterprise reports. They were interested in priority developments and their financing and production on time. Everything. 10-12 people cannot replace all ministries.
      4. +2
        23 October 2014 13: 17
        These are 2 different tasks that do not contradict, but complement each other - first, high-quality education, then the organization of conditions in order to successfully apply knowledge at home, without migrating anywhere. And I agree with both statements, therefore I put both "+". Article by itself.
      5. sq
        +3
        23 October 2014 13: 23
        Quote: IZUM
        It is necessary to create comfortable working and living conditions for our and not our engineers

        And even more important is respect for people, so that there is no: "If you do this, then we, gee-gee, will not punish you."
      6. BFG9000
        +6
        23 October 2014 18: 26
        The article is a good author interestingly outlined the facts, well done.
        The only thing is that everyone who is in the topic did not argue that in that era of the USSR he did good BIG computers. The problems are precisely in the mass production of personnel. And I'm not talking about screwdriver assembly, but about the actual production of microcomponents - processors, chips, boards, etc. and in architecture, more importantly. And here the leaders in technology are Americans, unfortunately we squandered what happened during the troubled years. Import substitution in these areas is complete nonsense. You can replace personalki, tablets, simple servers with Chinese products. But the serious products of the Chinese are crooked or simply not there. In general, they used up some serious money for nano-laundering, but did not create their own production base.
        1. tkhonov66
          -3
          24 October 2014 11: 08
          "...
          You can replace personalki, tablets, simple servers with Chinese products.
          ..."
          .
          - and also can be replaced by DOMESTIC PRODUCTS ...
          8-)
          .
          .
          "...
          But the serious products of the Chinese are crooked or simply not there.
          ..."
          .
          - BU-HA-HA ...
          8-))
          .
          Do not tell my old sneakers! - dear ...
          "China" - it is VERY DIFFERENT!
          .
          You probably haven't heard anything about such companies as "HUAVEY" and "ZTE"? ...
          8-)))
          .
          .
          Do you have an internet connection at home? Perhaps you are using a Wi-Fi router in order to have access to the Internet anywhere in your home or apartment through your smartphone or tablet? In this case, you are almost certainly using some equipment from Huawei or ZTE. In the CIS, almost 95% of all 3G / 4G USB modems, routers, switches, and other hardware came off the assembly lines of Chinese network giants.

          Huawei is the largest wireless device manufacturer in the United States with a 28,7% market share, while ZTE is in fifth place with a 6,4% market share. The entire 4G network in the USA is completely dependent on the equipment of these Chinese giants.

          Huawei is the largest wireless device manufacturer in the United States with a 28,7% market share, while ZTE is in fifth place with a 6,4% market share. If politicians go further in pressure on Huawei and ZTE, then enterprises may face the need to completely replace network equipment, and the entire 4G network in the country will be in the most difficult situation, since it completely depends on the equipment of these Chinese giants
          .
          .30 July 2014 Huawei and Lenovo drive Apple out of the smartphone market.
          Last quarter, Apple supplied partners with 35,1 million iPhones. Thus, deliveries increased by 12,4%. But if in 2013 Apple's share in the smartphone market was 13%, then in 2014 it fell to 11,9%.
          .
          Huawei has put 20,3 million smartphones on the market. The growth compared to the second quarter of 2013 was an impressive 95,1%, the global market share - 6,9%. The same indicators for Lenovo - 15,8 million smartphones and a plus of 38,7%, the share is 5,4%.
          .
          1. BFG9000
            +4
            24 October 2014 13: 44
            Mnda ...
            Do you work as a system administrator?

            As for home routers. If we are talking about what the operators put, then it is always clear why China is cheap and cheerful. It breaks in packs, it costs a penny. I never took these operator glands for myself. I once had a Netgear ADSL router. I myself am using Linksys now. Until recently, I had a router operating in the 802.11n and g bands; now I have taken a new model on 802.11AC. It works like a beast, I have an unlimited 80mv, there are 8 devices on the Internet and no one is denying anything to himself. 1,5 years ago, I put an elderly relative D-Link, and so hesitated to go and figure out why it doesn’t work. I gave her my old Linksys, it has already been working for a year, and has never even been overloaded.
            This is about home Chinese.

            Huawei and ZTE are well-known companies, and if ZTE specializes in operator hardware, then Huawei does a lot of things. At the same time, the legendary Chinese "quality" has not gone anywhere. Their iron breaks down at Rostelecom and other large operators in batches. And normal service costs extra money, so this is a classic "free mousetrap cheese", with a low purchase cost, the operating costs are huge.
            So these are your copy-paste from Wikipedia or where else to read is cool, but the reality is more complicated.

            And the most glane. I talked about technology. The same Huawei originally copied everything from Cisco. This is at the level of aggregation and software. And who is developing chips and proces? The Chinese or what? So the technology leaders are not in China, China is just a manufacturing base. But they have at least that. We do not have our own microelement base, even if it is on the licenses of others. There is no serious assembly base either. The first sprouts make their way, but this is a drop in the sea.
            Once again - there are no import substitutions for serious systems yet, we must be aware that China is not an assistant in this, IMHO
            1. +1
              24 October 2014 14: 02
              The Chinas have a lot of microchips, only for example, the same MediaTek have differences from the standard Arm, as a result of which you just can't put Android on them the first one that comes across, and so in everything, not to mention Chinese datasheets ...
          2. +2
            24 October 2014 22: 22
            I would still prefer Russian equipment. In Zelenograd, where they do not speculate like Rospsevdo and Raspilkovo, but work in good faith, they make a wonderful processor named Elbrus. In addition, I heard that our ICBMs have elemental base and other near-computer tinsel - completely domestic. Meanwhile, directing a rocket flight with all these crazy maneuvers of evasion, scattering warheads and tilting steps is an extremely expensive task in terms of computer performance. And to gain weight in the desire to increase the computational mosh will not work - you can not take anything superfluous in flight. Even fuel is strictly accountable.
            So we can make powerful and compact computers from the details of our own design and production. All that remains for us is to insulate them.
      7. +3
        25 October 2014 09: 14
        In the days of Stalin, salaries depended on qualifications and work performed.
        Engineers and scientists productively working in their specialty received 4-5 times more than unskilled workers.
        Khrushchev abolished this principle, the salaries of highly skilled workers were significantly reduced, the results of their work were not taken into account when paying, everyone received fixed salaries for the time spent at work, regardless of where the work was in the office, in the workshop, in the mine.
        1. Kassandra
          0
          29 October 2014 10: 07
          corn shit here ...
      8. +1
        25 October 2014 21: 48
        How many traitors do not feed, they still look into the forest. You can be talented to give a salary in 2 times more than in America. And in America they will immediately be offered 4 times more. No, you have to keep people strict. He was educated in Russia - return him to Russia, and went to the arrogant and began to serve the enemies, so you are the enemy and you will be treated as a traitor, revenge must be inevitable. Everyone who pretends to be deprived and leaves to serve the enemies of Russia should know that they have acted immorally and will be punished.
        1. 0
          26 October 2014 05: 40
          This will not stop emigration. Americans are happy to give the scientist money to pay for his education in Russia, because they will get a ready-made specialist. And it will bring many times more profit than these costs. Well, as for the destruction of traitors, there are examples (Trotsky and others). Only this is now called terrorism.
          1. Kassandra
            0
            29 October 2014 10: 10
            this is called retaliation,

            in the 70s they were forced to pay tuition when leaving, so it was such a high sad
      9. The comment was deleted.
    2. +3
      23 October 2014 15: 36
      Bring back the Soviet Union !!!
      1. +1
        23 October 2014 15: 38
        ... The principle of multiprocessing in architecture was implemented in the USSR in 1966 in the 5E92b computer, which was created under the leadership of Academician V. S. Burtsev and on the basis of which the Moscow missile defense system was deployed. In 1969-1972 Burtsev led the project to create a modular three-processor computer 5E261-E265, which was included in our famous C-300 missile defense systems, which are still in service in a number of countries. Within the framework of the aforementioned Burtsev computer in the C-300 complex we then had an 32-bit three-processor system with fully hardware reliability control, conveyors, asynchronous buses ... Burtsev was the general designer of the high-performance computing systems Elbrus-1 (1978) and Elbrus-2 (1984). Elbrus-1 was the world's first supercomputer with superscalar architecture. In the West, the first superscalar appeared in 1992 , and Pentium Pro - in 1995. One of the leading developers of Elbrus was V. M. Pentkovsky, who later became the architect of Intel Pentium III. The successor of V. S. Burtsev in the development of Elbrus-3 was B. A. Babayan (now - Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Intel Fellow).
        1. +2
          25 October 2014 11: 55
          In addition, I immediately remembered that the Soviet Union was the only country in the world producing mass-produced ternary computers - the famous Setuni.
        2. 0
          29 October 2014 02: 15
          Vsevolod Sergeevich Burtsev came to the Institute of Precision Mechanics and Computer Engineering of the USSR Academy of Sciences in 1950 as a graduate student and worked for 36 years.

          The first thing that his teacher S. A. Lebedev, who saw him as a talented designer, entrusted to him, was to participate in the development of the control system of the first Soviet high-speed electronic machine BESM. This became the basis of the thesis of V. S. Burtsev. In the process, he proved himself so much that he became one of the leading developers of BESM. For this work he was awarded the Order of Lenin at the age of 29.

          In 1953 - 1956 years. V. S. Burtsev developed the principle of selection and digitization of the radar signal, which made it possible for the first time in the world to automatically acquire data from a surveillance radar station for guiding fighters to air targets.

          To read:
          ipmce.ru/about/history/leading/burtsev/

          Awarded the State Prize for the development of 5E92b computers.
          V. S. Burtsev (center), V. I. Ryzhov (left) and Krylov (right)
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. 0
        25 October 2014 00: 31
        tktrcfylhn61. I agree with you. To return the Soviet Union but without the partyigenos, snickering bureaucrats, schligarchs and lousy intelligentsia. But I think they will not give those that I named.
    3. 0
      24 October 2014 22: 21
      and still not bad would be Soviet teachers
    4. 0
      24 October 2014 23: 58
      Cosmos. Before you return to Soviet education, you need to return the Soviet Union. But this will not happen, because snickering bureaucrats, oligarchs and lousy intelligentsia will not allow this.
    5. 0
      25 October 2014 18: 52
      For what, we reform the Russian Academy of Sciences better in the manner of "Serdyukov's reforms", then we will reap the fruits of the stupid, but beneficial to someone, reformism.
    6. 0
      25 October 2014 20: 37
      you know, in 1989 I studied at the school on the AGAT PC, this is a normal computer for that time - there were everything there - something like that I could buy for myself only in 2004 - here is the progress or vice versa
  2. +2
    23 October 2014 09: 06
    introduced by our media, thoughtlessly (or consciously opposite)

    Yes, yes, what is only the mocking phrase "Our Large Electronic Counting Machines are the largest in the world.
    1. sergeybulkin
      +14
      23 October 2014 10: 45
      I worked at BESM - 6, for its time it was an advanced technique, and most importantly, completely domestic. Excellent software, reliable as a tank, very fast for its time. Big - yes, but that was not a problem. By the way, on it a lot of things were considered and designed for the "Buran".
    2. tkhonov66
      +1
      23 October 2014 17: 28
      "...
      "Our Large Electronic Counting Machines are the largest in the world."
      ..."
      .
      in my opinion the original is distorted ...
      As far as I remember, the original sounded like this:
      "Our calculators are the largest calculators in the world!"
      .
      This was due to the fact that the "analogue" of the first engineering microcalculator (nee named "Rockwell 61R" -1973), which received the index "B3-18" in the USSR (or "soap dish" - http://geektimes.ru/post / 166927 /) - produced in the USSR for a depressingly long time - 1976-1982. It has already fallen in value from 220 rubles to 45 rubles - but it was simply NOT BOUGHT IN STORES ... all the more so at that time - it cost "buzzing money!" (With the average salary of an engineer - 140 rubles). And everyone released him and released him ... (the plan is the law! 8-). And since they "did not take him" in the shops, then according to the plan he was "shoved" into all state institutions, where he passed as state property under inventory numbers and, of course, at a cost of 220 rubles ...
      - and long ago, all calculators sharply decreased in volume / size and added to functionality (B3-18M, B3-04, B3-21, B3-28, B3-35 appeared), and he lived in state bookkeeping and lived ... - like a calculator! - with a capital letter! - and at its former cost - therefore it was issued for signature - as a particularly valuable equipment ...
      8-)
      .
      - where this "joke" came from.
      1. 0
        24 October 2014 21: 18
        This soap box is still working .. 1981 model .... like new ..
  3. +4
    23 October 2014 09: 06
    EU-1022, had to intersect with such :-)
    1. +22
      23 October 2014 09: 41
      Sorry, I started only with the 1840 model, but at one time - SUPER! And how many were BKShnikov! Information was obtained bit by bit, they did everything with their own pens ... Yes, nostalgia-sss ... crying
      Crying over the current lag is "in favor of the poor." We have to do business and work to work, otherwise we will never go to the domestic base. Then - kirdyk. Strangled. There are enough talents in Russia, the word is for the authorities and patrons (at least at first). hi
      1. tkhonov66
        +12
        23 October 2014 11: 59
        "...
        Crying over the current lag is "in favor of the poor." We have to do business and work to work, otherwise we will never go to the domestic base. Then - kirdyk. Strangled. There are enough talents in Russia, the word is for the authorities and patrons (at least at first).
        ..."
        .
        Mikron plant started production of Elbrus-2SM microprocessors
        http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/51895/

        Jan 15, 2013
        Serial production of computers with domestic processors launched in Russia
        http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/51895/

        New 4-core microprocessor "Elbrus-4C"
        http://pikabu.ru/story/novyiy_4yadernyiy_mikroprotsessor_yelbrus4s_2104968

        30 2014 June
        Samples of 8-core 28nm Elbrus-8C processors will be available in October.
        According to the MCST company, the pilot batch of universal Elbrus-8C microprocessors was put into production. The processors have 8 cores and operate at a clock frequency of 1,3 GHz.
        http://www.russianelectronics.ru/leader-r/news/russianmarket/doc/68654/
        .
        .
        ALIVE, SMOKER !!!
        8-))
        1. +9
          23 October 2014 13: 47
          So what are we talking about, dear "tkhonov66"! +++++ good
          And we’ll give a flea a lift, and whoever needs it, we’ll give it in the face! angry
          1. +1
            23 October 2014 18: 23
            And we’ll give a flea a lift, and whoever needs it, we’ll give it in the face!


            And we can give and fraternize in the face and then. It was like that.
    2. +3
      23 October 2014 19: 58
      Quote: saag
      EU-1022, had to intersect with such :-)

      In fact, the EU-series is the American IBM-360, 370, which users unofficially transferred to the USSR as a fee for recognizing the lunar scam.
  4. Solaris
    +3
    23 October 2014 09: 17
    it's time to revive domestic computer technology (not only for the military-industrial complex) and popularize it
    1. +2
      23 October 2014 09: 43
      I agree, to create cheap domestic processors and make amateur boards out of them like Arduino for popularization.
  5. potap48a
    +7
    23 October 2014 09: 19
    you need to make a film about this case and show it on ovsky television. Let them then know how backward they are. There are not so many real American scientists. All important basic discoveries were made by newcomers or emigrants. And they are all puffed up, that they say how cool! In fact, they are all far-sighted and mentally retarded there. An example is President Bush Jr. Here 70-80% of the US population is the same bush.
    1. +4
      23 October 2014 14: 37
      Quote: potap48
      you need to make a film about this case and show it on ovsky television. Let them then know how backward they are.

      For these purposes, the bourgeoisie have TV channels such as Discovery, NG, Da Vinci, etc., just to let the people of the planet know who created everything and promote the party’s policies, you read the Russian edition of PM how many incompetent nonsense and a very one-sided show material .. The enemy knows PROMOTION first!
      1. tkhonov66
        0
        23 October 2014 17: 40
        "...
        read the Russian edition of PM how much incompetent nonsense there is and a very one-sided display of material .. The enemy knows PROMPAGANDA first of all!
        ..."
        .
        SO PRECISE, since many articles there are stupidly translated from Western sources.
        - Well - and the bourgeois - they KNOW ONLY in ADVERTISING ....
        8 - ((
        .
        And on "Discovery" - as you watch the series "Wings" (wings) - and immediately understand that besides the "great aviation" of the United States (a little England and quite a bit of France) - no other aviation in the world is simply NOT IN PRINCIPLE .. ...
        8 - (((
        .
        It is good that Russia - even though it has begun to make the series "Shock Force" - and even though not on TV, but you can watch it in YouTube ... And you immediately understand that the US lies are "growing legs".
  6. +4
    23 October 2014 09: 20
    Unfortunately, all this was then. For example, now our best processor (Elbrus-4C) is manufactured using the 65 nm process technology, while Intel processors are manufactured using the 22 nm process technology. Need to catch up!
    1. tkhonov66
      +3
      23 October 2014 12: 02
      "...
      For example, now our best processor (Elbrus-4C) is manufactured using the 65 nm process technology, while Intel processors are manufactured using the 22 nm process technology. Need to catch up!
      ..."
      .
      - THERE IS, "catch up" !!!
      8-)))
      .
      30 2014 June
      Samples of 8-core 28nm Elbrus-8C processors will be available in October.
      According to the MCST company, the pilot batch of universal Elbrus-8C microprocessors was put into production. The processors have 8 cores and operate at a clock frequency of 1,3 GHz.
      http://www.russianelectronics.ru/leader-r/news/russianmarket/doc/68654/
  7. +2
    23 October 2014 09: 27
    Eh ... when will Elbrus become available to civilians?

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эльбрус_2000
    1. -12
      23 October 2014 09: 43
      Most likely never. Our processors have their own architecture, often not compatible with publicly available software. And the performance / cost ratio of our processors is not up to par.
      1. +14
        23 October 2014 10: 27
        The Elbrus processor (current) has a licensed architecture based on MIPS or SPARC. And works easily on Linux. Supports C ++ and other international standards.
        1. -2
          23 October 2014 10: 43
          Maybe. But does Elbrus support all application software?
          And will Elbrus with a market price of 7000 rubles be able to deliver the same performance as Intel processors manufactured in hundreds of millions of pieces? In the civilian world, few will buy a thing more expensive and less productive. While in the sun, the price factor is not so critical.
          1. +2
            23 October 2014 11: 29
            For example, an article on the review of the Elbrus-4C processor in comparison with the Intel processor. Unfortunately, our processor lags far behind. Yes, by the way, the previous generation Elbrus-2C + processor is produced in factories in Southeast Asia ...
            http://zoom.cnews.ru/publication/printed/51820
          2. tkhonov66
            +6
            23 October 2014 12: 18
            "...
            Maybe. But does Elbrus support all application software?
            ..."
            .
            Especially for cadet Yegorov I repeat: "The radio station is on a tank, not on semiconductors."
            Especially for "Leonid_Ka" I repeat: "The software is based on the LINUX operating system, not Elbrus".
            8-))
            .
            And, accordingly, ALL "application software" supported by "Linux" OS is of course supported by "Elbrus" ...
            .
            .
            "...
            And will Elbrus with a market price of 7000 rubles be able to deliver the same performance as Intel processors manufactured in hundreds of millions of pieces?
            ..."
            .
            - Ready-made samples of 8-core 28-nm Elbrus-8C processors created using the 28-nm process technology should appear in October (we can assume that they will be produced by TSMC). The computing power of the new processors can reach 250 GFlops (apparently, with single precision). Recall: quad-core versions with single precision calculations have a peak performance of 50 GFlops. A significant increase in productivity can be achieved both by increasing the clock frequency by more than 50% and architectural improvements, and by doubling the number of computing cores. At the same time, the computing cores were created using the improved 3rd generation Elbrus architecture. The volume of cache in the second level is 4 MB, the volume of cache in the third level is 16 MB.
            .
            .
            Intel Core i7 i7-4930K 3.4 GHz ret. 27050 rubles ... (In contrast to 7000 rubles - at Elbrus - as you wrote)
            Arithmetic performance (Dhrystone integers, GIPS, Intel Hyper-Threading Technology enabled) - 200.93 GFlops at 3.4 GHz ... (versus 250 at Elbrus at 1.3 GHz)
            (http://www.easycom.com.ua/cpu/intel_core_i7-4930k/?lang=en)
            .
            eight-))))
            - Comments - needed?
            1. 0
              23 October 2014 14: 40
              1. Do you think there are a lot of typical users using Linux?
              2. I do not have information on prices for Elbrus. The price "7000 rubles" was given as "spherical in vacuum". Those. I wanted to highlight the performance / cost ratio. According to this ratio, Elbrus is inferior to Intel.
              3. To compare performance, I specifically cited an article. Gflops is good, but it makes sense to compare only the speed of performing certain practical tasks.
              4. Elbrus with small process technology are produced in Southeast Asia.
              1. +2
                23 October 2014 15: 54
                Quote: Leonid_Ka
                1. Do you think there are a lot of typical users using Linux?

                If Linux is installed on it, then it is possible to gash a Windows engine too.
                Although it is strange, AMD processors somehow differ from Intel ones, but they still support Windows. Like the processors of Nvidia and others. Moscow was not built in a day.

                Quote: Leonid_Ka
                2. I do not have information on prices for Elbrus.

                I want to remind you how much the computer cost in the early 90s ...

                Quote: Leonid_Ka
                3. To compare performance, I specifically cited an article. Gflops is good, but it makes sense to compare only the speed of performing certain practical tasks.

                I’ve read an article somewhere that Elbrus performs more decisions per beat than intel. But I can’t find her - a year ago

                Quote: Leonid_Ka
                4. Elbrus with small process technology are produced in Southeast Asia.

                You won’t believe it, but TSMC factories produce almost all modern processors as far as I remember.

                Now the lyrics. I want to remind you that the first cars were worth it as I don’t know what and went a little faster than a horse. But after the start of mass production, the price went down sharply and availability increased. Gradually, power began to grow.
                I’m what it is, from 2008, starting from 130nm of technology, at the end of 2014 go to 28nm used by top manufacturers.
                In my opinion, a good result, and no one says that we will stop there.
                I’m talking about serial production at our own factories of processors for citizens - this will firstly reduce the value due to serialization, secondly it will give specialists who understand it, thirdly it will force large companies such as microsoft to configure their software for our hardware.
                1. 0
                  23 October 2014 16: 45
                  1. You can, but you just need to "cut down". In addition, Windiws OS is optimized for x86-x64 architecture, it will work slower on Elbrus by definition.
                  2. The 90s have already passed, I'm talking about the current moment. I found information about computer prices for Elbrus-2C +, the price of 100 thousand rubles.
                  3. All these are numbers on paper. Once again I repeat, it makes sense to compare the speed of solving applied problems.
                  4. The fact of the matter is that the processor should begin to be produced in the amount of millions of pieces, and for this it must be competitively capable in the commercial market.
                  1. tkhonov66
                    +1
                    23 October 2014 17: 49
                    "...
                    1. You can, but you just need to "cut down".
                    ..."
                    .
                    It is more correct to say "hunt"
                    8-)
                    .
                    This is due to the fact that on photolithographic equipment designed for, say, 0.65 nm - in principle, you can make the gate length - and, say, 0.48 nm. This is achieved by adding to the indistinctly reproducible corners of the so-called "whiskers" - something like rays at the corners. These "mustaches" are added to the reference photomask before it is scaled down to minus in order to obtain working photomasks. In this case, on the working photomask, the corners of the rectangles are obtained more clearly.
                    - but the manufacturing error and, accordingly, the percentage of yield fit dramatically fall. But in this way (in principle) - to look at the operability of the chip topology made according to smaller tolerances (i.e. to get suitable copies) - you can ...
                    - not from a good life, ess-but ...
                    .
                    So, for example, in 1994 in Russia the topology of TMS320C25 was obtained (stripped). But the problem turned out to be that with the technology that existed in Russia at that time (1.5 microns) - such a chip (with a square side of 1.1 cm) - did NOT Crawl into the window of any of the existing cases. Therefore, this topology had to be scaled "in the minus" - to the norms of 1.2 microns - and "baited" ...
                    - the technologists did it.
                    But from a batch of 10 plates, only one reached the release, and then two suitable crystals were obtained. One was killed while cutting a plate. And the second one was boiled into a body - and it EARNED (!!!) in the reference device instead of the "native" TMS320C25 ...
                    .
                    Those. So it was proved that the topology obtained in the USSR is WORKING!
                    .
                    Indeed, at that time TI did not sell the C25 topology to anyone.
                    .
                    .
                    But the USSR was already "breathing on its own," and this technical achievement remained unclaimed. The team of developers has disintegrated. How the whole USSR collapsed.
                    .
                2. 0
                  24 October 2014 10: 19
                  You won’t believe it, but TSMC factories produce almost all modern processors as far as I remember.

                  We won’t believe it. Intel processors are released on their own fabs. TCMS is foundry.
              2. 0
                23 October 2014 20: 06
                Quote: Leonid_Ka
                Those. I wanted to highlight the performance / cost ratio. By this ratio, Elbrus is inferior to intel.

                And here everything is simple.
                Released one piece - the sky-high cost, a hundred - approximately the cost of a piece of gold of the same mass, a million - a penny.
              3. tkhonov66
                0
                24 October 2014 11: 15
                "...
                1. Do you think there are a lot of typical users using Linux?
                ..."
                .
                - eight-))
                THE OVERALL MOST "typical users" are "sitting" THAT IS EXACTLY "On Linuxe" ...
                - The fact is that "typical users" in the general mass are LITERATE - and most often they simply DO NOT KNOW about this TRUTH ...
                8-)
                .
                In 2011, according to IDC’s latest Worldwide Quarterly Server Tracker, global server revenue grew for Linux and declined for Windows and Unix. Of particular interest is that IDC considers not just the number of installations, but the number of servers sold with a preinstalled OS.

                This means that more and more customers are asking IBM, HP and Dell (the big three suppliers of hardware) to install Linux on the server. IDC notes that “their demand for high-performance (HPC) and cloud computing was positively reflected in the demand of linux-servers. Demand rose 2,2% over the year to $ 2,6 billion in 4Q11. Linux servers now occupy 18,4% of the total market. ”
                .
                What about competitors? “Demand for Windows-servers decreased slightly in the 4th quarter of 2011, falling by 1,5% per year.
                .
                .
                Jim writes: “Our latest survey of the world's largest Linux companies showed that Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), technical excellence and security were the three main reasons for choosing Linux. These reasons testify to the maturity of Linux and it was they who led this OS to success. Each data center (DPC) uses Linux. Stock exchanges, supercomputers, and many transportation systems are much more likely to use Linux for workloads and mission-critical tasks. ”
                .
                http://habrahabr.ru/post/140195/
                .
                8-)))
              4. Kassandra
                0
                29 October 2014 10: 23
                and what prevents to run the windows emulator on Linux?

                users usually sit on 1C, on open office and on the browser, so if that
            2. +1
              23 October 2014 15: 19
              Another stone in the garden of unbelievers, if I7 were produced in an amount 10 times less, it would cost about 50-60 thousand apiece.
              Low price - not technical, but marketing achievement of Intel.
          3. 0
            27 October 2014 12: 20
            A citizen tyt ???? Only on toys and social networks all in cycles ???? Processors and computers, in general, are needed for production, and only then for the rest !!!
          4. Kassandra
            0
            29 October 2014 10: 18
            But something about the multi-level architecture in terms of HW, OS and software in general, when did you hear?
            it was written about the fact that Elbrus "eats" MIPS, SPARC, Linux, C ++, the application software already works on top of them
        2. +1
          23 October 2014 13: 16
          > The Elbrus processor (current) has a licensed architecture based on MIPS or SPARC.

          there are two hardware platforms for "Elbrus", not only spark
  8. +4
    23 October 2014 09: 38
    Thank you for the article! Very informative!
  9. +4
    23 October 2014 09: 41
    I didn’t know that I was using a processor named after an emigrant, if not a defector. If they would create a network from which the Internet is visible and accessible, but it itself would remain invisible and inaccessible from the Internet, with good catalogers as a standard for the Eurasian Union, the Yankees would quickly understand who the "big brother" is.
  10. +5
    23 October 2014 10: 13
    Most importantly, no one in the USSR was seriously involved in consumer electronics and PCs. They relied on budget money and did not look for sources of additional income in the consumer market. This led to the worthlessness of the domestic "computer" and the corresponding anegdotes that cannot be called unfair.
  11. +10
    23 October 2014 10: 15
    The author, since you have described in such detail the period of development of Soviet computers from 1945 to 1979, then for completeness, also describe the period 1979-1991. Most of the statements about the backlog of the USSR in the field of military equipment refer to this period, quite deservedly, in my opinion.
    1. +2
      23 October 2014 11: 03
      I agree. In the mid-70s, it was decided to curtail domestic developments and copy Intel products. Then the lag of 2 ... 3 years in electronics did not seem critical, and intelligence worked well. But when Intel began to stamp a new generation of processors every 3 ... 4 years, we lagged behind a whole generation.

      Regarding modern Russian processors - not a single Elbrus. Our enterprises produce a fairly wide line of highly specialized processors. In particular, Tricolor HD receivers operate on a domestic electronic base.
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 13: 18
        > copy Intel products.

        not Intel, but leading Western developers
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. tkhonov66
        0
        23 October 2014 14: 33
        "...
        In the mid-70s, it was decided to curtail domestic developments and copy Intel products. Then the lag of 2 ... 3 years in electronics did not seem critical
        ..."
        .
        Onboard equipment "Buran" was built on a computer network of domestic "analogs" INTEL-8080 (8 bit)!
        .
        - A deep bow to our aerodynamics-programmers who managed SO to control the machine on 8-bit automation!
        .
        On the same 8080 had to do - and the automation of the refueling complex.
        Only there it was necessary to make a COMPLETELY TROYED computing system on them. Those. TROUBLE ALL (!!) control signals - right down to timing signals ... The fact is that during the "annihilation" of the hydrogen and oxygen reserves necessary to refuel the "Energy", the explosive power of "eight Hiroshima" was released ...
        http://iosifk.narod.ru/majoritar.pdf
        http://www.iosifk.narod.ru/engineer_storys.htm
        .
        In fact, they initially planned to install 16-bit "Electronics-60" (based on LSI-11) there - but our industry was unable to organize the production of a sufficient number of these processors in time with "customer acceptance" according to CTU ...
      4. +3
        23 October 2014 17: 26
        Actually, not Intel and a little earlier ...

        In fact, the agents of influence decided to stop their development and switch to the IBM360 system.

        Which in the USSR became known as EC-computers: EC-1020, EC-1022, EC-1030, EC-1033, EC-1045 ... the last EC-1065 ... that's where the ambush is, and you are Intel ...

        Intel only then ... would continue on the BESM-6 line, and we would have better than Intel !!!
        1. tkhonov66
          0
          23 October 2014 18: 07
          "...
          would continue further the BESM-6 line, and we would have better than Intel !!!
          ..."
          .
          Elbrus - and there is "" the successor of the BESM-6 line "- and it is (ess-no) BETTER than any" intel. "Our ORIGINAL - it is always better than the overseas COPY.
          8-)
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Kassandra
        0
        29 October 2014 10: 42
        if we are a generation behind, then why then did intel come to Elbrus for knowledge?
    2. +4
      23 October 2014 11: 30
      Yes, I also heard that the backlog of our electronics industry began in the 70-80s, when someone from the country's leadership suggested buying electronics over the hill for petrodollars.
      1. jjj
        0
        23 October 2014 13: 27
        There were still times when cybernetics was considered the "corrupt girl of imperialism." This is in ideology, but in practice they worked in silence
      2. +1
        23 October 2014 17: 32
        Quote: 09061982
        Yes, I also heard that the backlog of our electronics industry began in the 70-80s, when someone from the country's leadership suggested buying electronics over the hill for petrodollars.


        There was no lag in computing ... damn here about BESM-6 probably already wrote 100 times ... aw, garage ...

        But it was essentially a betrayal .... agents of influence, decided to stop their development and switch to the IBM360 system.

        Which in the USSR became known as EC-computers: EC-1020, EC-1022, EC-1030, EC-1033, EC-1045 ... the last EC-1065 ... that's where the ambush is, and you are Intel ...
        1. tkhonov66
          -1
          23 October 2014 18: 13
          "...
          But it was essentially a betrayal .... agents of influence, decided to stop their development and switch to the IBM360 system.
          ..."
          .
          There was no particular "betrayal" ...
          .
          There was a dull desire to "save money".
          - Few people know that the main cost of automation does not fall on computers, but on SOFT (!).
          - Well, bourgeois software - they hoped to stupidly copy, reproducing the command system in the EU (economic / business computer) and DEC (on-board computer) lines.
          .
          And partly - the idea worked!
          1. +2
            24 October 2014 18: 28
            Quote: tkhonov66
            There was no particular "betrayal" ...


            And not a special betrayal, duck is it normal or something ??? !!!!

            Type betrayed, but slightly ... ёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёёё!

            What are you talking about ... slightly pregnant ... laughing

            Well, at the expense of bourgeois software ... so there was one more setup - if all the documentation was transferred to hardware, then, until the last day of operation, software, as they already said, found all kinds of bugs and craps not described ...

            Linden is saving, which is not clear, under the guise of saving, agents of influence, dragged American crap !!!
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  12. +3
    23 October 2014 10: 23
    How much we don’t know about the development of our industry about the achievements of those who led our country ahead of the rest of the planet, it’s a pity we are mentally retarded since we don’t know what we were and will always be leaders of this world
  13. Crang
    +1
    23 October 2014 10: 23
    I always knew that our Elbruses were the coolest. Soviet technology - who doubts it? So after all, ours, under the sunset of the USSR, also managed to make a new operating system. In my opinion with the same name. In terms of characteristics, it was approximately at the level of Windows-95. Although the best thing in the West then was Windows-3.1.
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 13: 22
      Quote: Krang
      Although the best that was in the west then was Windows-3.1.

      Windows of this type were not operating systems in the full sense of the word, because they worked using MS-DOS, and not by themselves. In fact, it was a shell for DOS, nothing more.
    2. jjj
      0
      23 October 2014 13: 37
      From DOS I went through 3.11 already to 98th. Then, in the late 90s, everything was somehow quickly going through the software. And cars from the 286th, a little 386th, immediately to the Pentium-100 and Pro. I don't even know what it is now. For my son I'm wearing
  14. +9
    23 October 2014 10: 27
    Good article.
    Let, of course, speak of the maximum characteristics. Good anyway.
    The sixth photo is the engineering panel of the input-output processor (IP PVV) of the Elbrus machine. My main place of work is at the Tashkent computer plant "Algorithm". Until the Union collapsed.
    Technologically, the approach was different for cars. Ours did not bother with the parameter - size / cost / efficiency ratio of the complex. But especially bother - secrecy / inaccessibility / exclusivity. Duc, all sorts of embargoes, the laws of the Brooms-Jackson.
    But the Soviet Union went ahead and spit on opponents. For the time being.
    There was a time...
  15. hoard
    -6
    23 October 2014 10: 27
    Ideas and know-how must be supported by a technological base. The USSR lagged well behind in radio-electronic technologies. Hence the large size (low degree of integration), high energy consumption and, as a consequence, low speed and reliability of domestic electronics. So what about "in this industry we were consistently in the forefront" the author distorts.
    Especially this lag affected the military electronics. The low reliability of radio technology has become a constant headache, which reduced all other advantages to a minus.
    1. tkhonov66
      +4
      23 October 2014 13: 19
      "...
      The USSR was lagging far behind in electronic technology. Hence the large size (low degree of integration), high energy intensity and - as a consequence - low speed and reliability of domestic electronics.
      ..."
      .
      - until 1980
      The "backlog" of "Soviet radio electronics" specifically from "radio electronics of the DEC company" was NOT MORE than 2-3 years ... decreasing from time to time to 1.5 years ...
      - LSI-11 - Electronics-60 / Electronics-125 (OS RT-11)
      - VAX - Electronics-82 (OS VMS)
      It got to the point that the DEC developers "entered into correspondence" with the "reverse developers" of the USSR. Inside one of the chips of the "Micro-VAX" processor set in one of the INNER layers of the chip topology - after bleeding off the top layers, an image of a hand was found holding five card aces and the inscription - "Russian - stop fighting!"
      8-))
      - did not help.
      The Micro-VAX was ripped off in record time.
      .
      "...
      So what about "in this industry we have consistently been in the forefront" the author distorts.
      ..."
      .
      - yeah ... the "stability of being in the forefront" in the USSR was not a fountain. And especially after 1980 ...
      8- (

      "...
      Especially this lag affected the military electronics. The low reliability of radio technology has become a constant headache, which reduced all other advantages to a minus.
      ..."
      .
      - Nonsense, TOTAL Nonsense !!!
      8-)
      As for "civilian radio electronics" - I completely agree with you here.
      What was - what was. Moreover, when the plan was "burning" there were cases - that other enterprises (for example, the Adizhan semiconductor havod) shipped to consumers EMPTY CASES OF MICROSCIRCUITS (without a semiconductor crystal inside) - well, that is, just a piece of plastic with legs and the inscription K155la3 ... 8-)
      - well, let alone skip any of the quality control operations "for the sake of the plan" - it's just "sacred" ...
      .
      But the reliability of "VOENNAYA radioelektronika" - in the USSR has always (!) Been at the proper (world) level - and even a little HIGHER.
      .
      So you, dear, here, probably, are simply NOT IN COURSE!
      - The fact is that civil electronics differed from military ones in that the production of military electronics was controlled by the institute of MILITARY ACCEPTANCE (customer acceptance), which did not obey the leadership of the radio-electronic enterprise controlled by it - and the HEAD (!) Was responsible for the QUALITY of the radio-electronic products received by it. And the customer, without the signature of his representative at the enterprise, WAS NOT ACCEPTED from the enterprise - not a single product! That is, the "implementation of the plan" of the radio-electronic enterprise - "acceptance" - was deep "TO THE LIGHT". And the customer's representative was sitting AT EACH technological operation and somehow "cheating" when releasing a batch of products under the control of PZ - it was simply NOT REAL (and I worked as a technologist ... I know ...).
      - Moreover - if at the final control of a LOT OF PRODUCTS (and it could be, for example, several hundred transistors) - AT LEAST ONE (!!!) transistor was found out of order - then the ENTIRE LOT of products was "removed from acceptance". At the same time, a point of contrasting paint (white, yellow, orange) was usually put on the body of each product of such a batch. And all such a batch was sent to "civilian products". And such transistors (with a dot) - they were considered almost ETERNAL by radio amateurs and were highly valued.
      - so that "about the quality of military / space radio electronics" - DO NOT NEED LA-LA ... Otherwise, nothing would FLY or SHOOT.
      8-)
      .
      - learn MATCH!
      1. hoard
        +1
        24 October 2014 10: 19
        Quote: tkhonov66
        So you, dear, here, probably, are simply NOT IN COURSE!

        Quote: tkhonov66
        - learn MATCH!

        I know the hardware better than you, because He worked in this field for 25 years, 10 of them in the military. I won't even argue with an amateur. I'd better tell you "FULL BAD" about the main (from the 90s to the present day) hydroacoustic complex of MGK-540 Skat-3 nuclear submarines. The combat capabilities of a boat (especially a multipurpose one) are half determined by the properties of its hydroacoustics, i.e. GAK for a boat is very important. I graduated from the faculty of hydroacoustics at the VVMURE pl. Popov in the 90th year. Then the main hydroacoustic complex (GAK) of the 3rd generation PL was MGK-500 "Skat-KS". Not a bad, convenient analog-digital SAC (about a hundred instrument cabinets), stood on projects 667BDRM, 671RTM, 671RTMK, 685, 941, 945, 949. And I ended up serving 971 projects with the latest digital complex MGK-540 "Skat -3 "(they were armed with 945A, 949A and 971 projects). Very interesting, but very unreliable and not ergonomic HAK. For a couple of years of its dense operation, I don't remember the day that everything worked 100% there. There were enough cases of boats returning from the seas with a completely out of order sound direction finding path (i.e. blind). The “contact illness” was incurable - 170 (!) Instrument cabinets guaranteed it. I managed to find out the history of this misfortune in Okeanpribor. It turned out that initially the complex was designed for the latest series of microcircuits and was placed in only 20 instrument cabinets. Convenient GAK control panels were developed and a spherical main antenna was even planned. But the RTS Fleet Directorate did not approve the project, but demanded that the complex be converted to the "approved" series 134 (the number of cabinets increased from 20 to 170 !!, and the reliability, accordingly, decreased by a couple of orders of magnitude !!!), use the "approved" ones as remotes. consoles (but designed for air defense !!! - a nightmare for an acoustician operator). And the industry could not implement a spherical antenna, and returned to a cylindrical one (((. As a result, in terms of combat properties MGK-540 almost did not exceed the previous MGK-500, was less reliable and very inconvenient to control. Yes, and before the enemy AN / BQQ- 5 fell slightly short.
        Here is "LA-LA" for you.
        1. tkhonov66
          +1
          24 October 2014 11: 32
          "...
          But the RTS Fleet Administration did not approve the project, but demanded to redo
          complex for the "approved" 134 series (the number of cabinets increased from 20 to 170 !!, and the reliability, accordingly, decreased by a couple of orders of magnitude !!!), use "approved" consoles as consoles (but designed for air defense !!! - a nightmare for an acoustics operator).
          ..."
          .
          Personally, I "sewed on buttons" - that is to say, I produced the 134th series ...
          Are there any complaints about the reliability of "BUTTONS" ?!
          - Most likely not - sewn (soldered) in cermet metal DEATH (!) DO NOT TORN (at an acceleration of 100 G) ...
          8-))
          .
          well, "who made the suit" ... - these are all claims to the "RTS Fleet Office" ... (and there ALSO all "stand" - like the 134th series in cermets - DEATH 8-)) - hello guys - you settled well (in the military-industrial complex of the USSR).
          8-)))
          1. hoard
            +1
            24 October 2014 12: 27
            Quote: tkhonov66
            Are there any complaints about the reliability of "BUTTONS" ?!

            Buttons are excellent, sewn beautifully! Only now they needed pearlescent ....)))))
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. +1
          25 October 2014 18: 10
          You yourself answered
          Here is "LA-LA" for you.
          : from the 90s, here’s the answer ...

          Who then broke through to power, in almost all structures ... by the age of 90, only Gorbachov had destroyed many new, promising projects.

          What, do you think, did not understand how much reliability will drop when changing from 20 instrument cabinets to 170, be at least 10 times more reliable than 134 new series of microcircuits.

          By the way, on which series of 20 cabinets were designed?
          1. hoard
            0
            25 October 2014 22: 33
            Quote: Dali
            since the 90s, here’s the answer ...

            Do not roll your arguments. Since the 90s, these boats became massive, but the 1st building of the 971st project was put into operation at the Pacific Fleet in 1984, and at the Northern Fleet in 1988. This means that the HAC was designed from the mid 70s. I do not know the IP series, but, most likely, the MGK-600 Irtysh-Amphora was designed on it, which they put on the Yaseni and Borei and rearm the surviving boats of the 3rd generation. By the way, the 134th series is the development of the late 60s. Estimate the timeline.
            Quote: Dali
            What, do you think, did not understand how much reliability will drop when changing from 20 instrument cabinets to 170, be at least 10 times more reliable than 134 new series of microcircuits.

            I am sure that common sense and expediency were stupidly sacrificed to the bureaucracy here. The USSR degenerated long before the traitor came to power.
            1. Kassandra
              0
              29 October 2014 10: 49
              The USSR just did not degenerate, by the 90s they simply put a traitor in power, the last of which began to crap in particular with cabinets.

              in contrast to the USA, few people went with correctors of the growth of teeth in "this country".
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  16. +6
    23 October 2014 10: 27
    Quote: saag
    EU-1022, had to intersect with such :-)

    You can add the most massive Soviet computers - Minsk-22 and Minsk-32. Dnepr is the first domestic digital control computer for general use on semiconductor elements.
    And now to catch up and catch up. hi
  17. +7
    23 October 2014 10: 31
    People, what the hell is the backlog of the Union, take refrigerators, washing machines, etc., work for 30 years or more. All these are liberal tales of the dense USSR. Young people do not know this, and we also caught the consumption virus and nothing for the children about their homeland. which we themselves do not tell prosrali. Probably, somewhere there, on the subcortex of consciousness, everyone has a guilty feeling that they succumbed, did not intervene ..., hoh. There, too, confidently, flying downhill, and since there are no brakes like ours, the matter will end in a cliff.
    1. +2
      23 October 2014 10: 38
      Dear igorra.
      This article deals with one specific direction - the creation and development of computers.
      Well, you can’t do that, after all. Some kind of idolatry ..
      1. +4
        23 October 2014 11: 05
        Yes, and here there is one direction, television, including color, as well as television itself, helicopter engineering, radio, but for a long time it is possible to list the inventions created by ours, just at one fine moment we stopped or got older and did not give way to young scientists, inventors, engineers. Now the youth does not know the glorious pages of history and glorifies the West and I do not know what they will build. Yes, I forgot to add mobile communications and telephones to the listing. As always, we, as always, were primarily in the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and we did not consider it necessary to promote the masses, and the vultures of secrecy always dominated the Union.
        1. tkhonov66
          -1
          23 October 2014 14: 02
          "...
          and the vultures of secrecy have always dominated the Union
          ..."
          .
          "The regime is needed to fool the brain.
          His ... and the enemy.
          But mostly - OWN! "
          8 - ((
  18. +3
    23 October 2014 10: 38
    For more than half a century, he has dealt with computers, from vacuum tube computers to large integrated circuit computers. And, sadly, the backwardness of the Soviet and then the Russian composter from similar Western technology is not a myth at all, but a harsh and bitter truth. The bitterness also lies in the fact that in terms of ideas, Soviet scientists often found themselves ahead of the rest of the planet, but when it came to embodying these ideas in "iron", then the USSR found itself not at all in the leaders, but rather in the outsiders, Therefore, the leadership of the corresponding industries of the USSR did not come up with anything better how to copy the best examples of Western technology at that time.
    But there were a lot of problems with copying, as the level of production technology of the element base did not allow obtaining copies comparable in technical specifications with Western samples.
    The situation with the development of software was somewhat better, but it also "rested its forehead" on the imperfection of the element base. Well, the lag in the area under consideration entailed a lag in those types of weapons and military equipment that were used by domestic computers.
    In post-perestroika times, many developers of Russian weapons and military equipment rushed to the other extreme and began to use foreign computers and other "foreign" components in this equipment, forgetting that at hour "H" such equipment would either immediately "lie down" or start shooting at their own , or will begin to supply the enemy with information that he is not supposed to know by definition. Unfortunately, many of the current leaders of the Russian industry have still not realized that it is the perfection of computer technology that determines the effectiveness of modern weapons and military equipment, and no improvement, for example, Kalashnikov assault rifles, can compensate for this imperfection.
    1. wanderer_032
      +7
      23 October 2014 12: 14
      Quote: gregor6549
      Well, a lag in the area under consideration entailed a lag in those types of weapons and military equipment that used domestic computers.


      Конечно.
      But how then did the MIG-25 and MIG-31 interceptors turn out to be in the USSR which are still unsurpassed anywhere in the world by TTX production aircraft of this class?
      An anomaly of some kind and only.
      And what about "Buran", which made an unmanned flight and landing?
      Aren't our Strategic Missile Forces at that time the medium that instantly cooled the ardor of the greedy ambitions of some overseas "friends"?
      But air defense in the USSR, was not a reliable shield?
      And the missile systems of surface ships and nuclear submarines of the USSR Navy were also just a scarecrow?
      What about computer systems for artillery and tactical missile systems?

      At all these complexes and in all these weapons systems, computer technology was used and it solved its tasks very well.
      So good that even after the collapse of the USSR, no one dared to openly climb their troops to our country.
      1. +3
        23 October 2014 16: 41
        The MiG 25 and MiG 31 were truly outstanding interceptors of their time ... in terms of their speed and altitude characteristics. But as it comes to the electronic weapons of these aircraft, in particular to the on-board computer, things were not entirely rosy there. And then these on-board computers stood out from the general number of similar computers because their developers and manufacturers abandoned the complex hardware and software of computers of the EU series, which were copied into the USSR by everyone and everyone, and made their on-board computers as simple as possible with programming at the level of machine instructions. This provided a rather high reliability and speed of their operation in comparison with the EC EBM, but on the other hand led to very great difficulties when making changes to the programs (and there were always a lot of such changes. I had to carry highly professional installers with me to the military unit provided a flashing of the on-board computer memory matrices for each change.All this took a lot of time and making changes did not always end with positive results, since there are two big differences to carry out such operations in a military unit and in factory conditions. used onboard computer data with sadness looked behind the "fence", where the programming and reprogramming of such onboard computers had long been automated and were performed tens if not hundreds of times faster.
        A similar problem was with on-board computers installed on missiles for various purposes. There, it was aggravated by the fact that the requirements for dimensions, weight, mechanics and reliability for the on-board computers of missiles were much stricter than for aircraft on-board computers, and the developers of these on-board computers had a more limited choice of components. As a result, the missile developers had to "reach the left ear with the right hand over the head" in order to somehow ensure that the requirements for the missile as a whole were met at an acceptable level, including through remote control of missiles via radio channels where relying on the reliability and performance of the on-board computer was not possible
        In land and ship systems, weight and size problems were less, so the same ACCS could be placed, say, on 5 large-sized mobile units such as BAZ, URAL, KRAZ, etc. instead of 1-2 mobile units of the same class of "whales".
        Those. the task of creating a particular type of weapon with given performance characteristics was ultimately accomplished somehow but often due to excessive dimensions and weight and other parameters that adversely affected the overall combat qualities of the system, including mobility, stealth, deployment time, transportability, etc. d. or by adjusting the performance characteristics to the side of their deterioration
        And the last, when discussing such a specific area as computer technology in military affairs, it would be nice to do without slogans and give more professional arguments, if, of course, there is their presence.
        1. wanderer_032
          0
          23 October 2014 19: 44
          Good answer. So it’s in more detail and better understood what exactly the difference was between what we had and what they had.
          I agree about the dimensions and weight, but the tasks were still solved, and the fact that there were no more compact and lightweight models in this area is not the fault of our radio electronics engineers.
          Probably there were such computers in the experimental samples, the problem was not the possibilities of their creation by our unconditionally talented Soviet engineers.
          The problem was more in the "high offices" and in the thickness of the armor of the individual "fallen in charge" who sat in them. They had no time for radio electronics, they were playing with each other in power and playing "big geopolitics" in the world.
          As a result, this ruined not only them, but the whole Union.
          Probably among them there were exceptions, in the form of Minister of Defense Ustinov D.F., to whom the USSR Armed Forces were indebted for many samples of new and more modern weapons systems and military equipment from the mid 70s to the mid 80s.
          He was at least trying to move forward.
          1. tkhonov66
            +1
            24 October 2014 11: 37
            "...
            The problem was more in the "high offices" and in the thickness of the armor of the individual "fallen in charge" who sat in them. They had no time for electronics ...
            ..."
            .
            so the fact of the matter is that they cared for EVERYTHING ...
            .
            And "they" saw that the USSR had "pants" - "for all at once" - catastrophically NOT enough ...
            .
            - therefore, CLEARED out as best they could, concentrating efforts on CRITICALLY IMPORTANT directions for the survival of the state (as they understood it).
            - Well, in other places - there already - how it goes ...
            8 - ((
            .
            and this, alas, is a materiel ...
          2. Kassandra
            0
            29 October 2014 11: 23
            bad answer, ASUV does and did the well-known wrecking office,

            where she did not "check in", everything was always fine.
  19. +4
    23 October 2014 10: 41
    Indeed, why is there no doc film about this? For the generation of the exam it would be useful to know about these achievements of Soviet science
    1. tkhonov66
      0
      23 October 2014 18: 20
      See the series "Impact Force"
  20. +4
    23 October 2014 10: 43
    and under his leadership, in 1993, Intel developed a Pentium processor, rumored to be named after Pentkovsky

    Of course... wassat 286, 386, 486, 586 ... although no. Five is "pente" (πέντε) in Greek and therefore the fifth series was named Pentium in honor of Pentkovsky.

    And about the backwardness of the USSR in computer technology. Hmm ... At sunset, the scoop at the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant (the one where the atomic carrier was being built at that moment) the Spaniards (well, straightforwardly advanced computer technicians and technologies) brought to sell their computerized design system. They brought both software and hardware. Personally, he witnessed the shock of both guests and hosts. The guests were precipitated when they were shown the engine room of the trawler made to the smallest detail (including miniature fire extinguishers, screw, etc.) on a scale of 1 to 20. The hosts were speechless from the Spanish system, which then allowed them to calculate where any pipe would pass and whether it would cross another pipe, and also on what technique all this was calculated.

    I believe that at the Kurchatov Institute there may have been supercomputers lacking analogs, but the situation in industry was deplorable. I don’t think about personal computers.
    1. +2
      23 October 2014 13: 25
      > The guests precipitated when they were shown the engine room of the trawler made to the smallest detail (including miniature fire extinguishers, propellers, etc.) on a scale of 1 to 20.

      the production process in heavy engineering still takes much more than 5 years, in many cases at least 10-15 years. And the computerization of these processes can save costs, but it certainly does not give a decisive advantage in the design and manufacture of equipment in these industries
      1. -3
        23 October 2014 17: 52
        Quote: xtur
        the production process in heavy engineering still takes much more than 5 years, in many cases at least 10-15 years. And the computerization of these processes can save costs, but it certainly does not give a decisive advantage in the design and manufacture of equipment in these industries

        Yeah. And therefore, Japan, Korea and all sorts of other bourgeoisie who are actively using computerization are the leaders in shipbuilding, and those who are old-fashioned do not even use the tracing paper in the top twenty. wink
        1. -1
          23 October 2014 22: 52
          > Yeah. That is why Japan, Korea are leading in shipbuilding.

          ... and in Kiev uncle

          their submarines are especially good, yes
          1. -2
            24 October 2014 04: 25
            Quote: xtur
            ..and in Kiev uncle

            their submarines are especially good, yes

            For those who are in the tank, I repeat, despite the fact that "the production process in heavy engineering still takes much more than 5 years, for many types of at least 10-15 years", the computerization of these processes allows you to save not only costs, but definitely gives a decisive advantage in the design and manufacture of equipment in these industries and a vivid example of this Japan and South Korea are the undisputed leaders in heavy engineering. Is that clearer? wink
            1. +2
              24 October 2014 21: 11
              > their submarines are especially good, yes

              > For those who are in the tank I repeat

              you better beat your head against the wall to knock out the phrase stuck in it - only carefully, do not break the wall.
              You can say anything, but I'm not effective managerI don’t have to slur my brains with marketing slang
              I judge from the experience of nuclear power available to me. And where are Yapi and Koreans with their super reactors - reliable and economical? Where are their radiation resistant robots, where just trained personnel at a nuclear power plant ?

              For the day that Fukushima reactors had time, they probably from the United States could drag a few diesels, mount them at their station where it is convenient for them, stretch some cables to the pumps cooling their reactor and begin to cool it.

              Reactor operators are the elite of operating engineer engineers, they are constantly being prepared for emergency situations, they regularly pass exams in the main subjects related to the safety and operation of reactors. they periodically undergo training on simulators ...

              If after all this their brains were not enough for a completely obvious decision - where are the engineers in Japan in general? Did they have brains that were eaten out by automatic design tools, or they didn’t exist at all, and the country is simply promoted by people like you?
              1. 0
                26 October 2014 19: 54
                Quote: xtur
                you better beat your head against the wall to knock out the phrase stuck in it - only carefully, do not break the wall.

                You poke your mom and dad, understand?

                Quote: xtur
                Where are their radiation-resistant robots, where are simply trained personnel at the nuclear power plant?

                And they have a sloppy ballet. Yes? Nevertheless, they are the undisputed leaders in heavy engineering and not least thanks to computerization. Talk about the automotive industry?

                Quote: xtur
                Did they have brains that were eaten out by automatic design tools, or they didn’t exist at all, and the country is simply promoted by people like you?

                And so everyone drives in Armenian cars, not Japanese ones. fool
                1. Kassandra
                  0
                  29 October 2014 10: 57
                  you better beat - you need more. bully KAMAZ who buy the states and Canada is it really a Japanese car?
                  but about the Armenians - intel came to Alabyan, and not vice versa. laughing
  21. +1
    23 October 2014 10: 55
    "Consumerism"! Thanks! I'll take it on board. Very capacious and accurate! good
  22. +5
    23 October 2014 10: 55
    Thanks for the article. Programmer with 30 years of experience. And it’s a shame for the power
  23. +3
    23 October 2014 10: 58
    Quote: RU-Officer
    Sorry, I started only with the 1840 model, but at one time - SUPER! And how many were BKShnikov! Information was obtained bit by bit, they did everything with their own pens ... Yes, nostalgia-sss ...

    Faced since 1840. Bad car, frankly. And she didn’t pull on SUPER. An analogue of the IBM PC, and the analogue is bad. It was done very poorly. Reliability and maintainability is low.
    I started my acquaintance with the IBM PC XT at about the same time. And I was extremely surprised that the hard controller board in my car could be easily replaced with a similar board produced by another company. Now such a replacement seems to be a matter of course, but then ... So, the boards for the EC1840 were our own and others did not fit them. About 25 years ago in the journal "Electronics" (if memory does not change) I read an article about the causes of troubles with the EU1840 / 1841. The machine was designed based on the equipment of a particular plant, so there was no question of board compatibility. And the design bloopers were blatant. As an example, it was cited that the IMPORT VLSI used in the car was installed in a Soviet-made socket. If anyone does not know, then we have adopted a step between the legs of 2,5 mm, and 2,54 behind the hillock. For short ICs, it does not matter much, but on a long case the difference was already significant and the VLSI was stupidly driven into the socket. I will not lie, I personally did not study the inside of the EC1840 / 41, so I wrote it as described in the mentioned article, but I had to face the low reliability of the EC1840 personally.
    From my point of view, the Bulgarians acted much more rationally, copied the IBM PC XT without any frills and received "Pravets-16", which left a very pleasant impression on me.

    And BKShnikam my great respect. At one time, there was a desire to join them, but it did not work out ...
  24. 0
    23 October 2014 11: 02
    from our first letters there was a good Spark 1030, the BIOS was largely ripped off by IBM (this is from the words of the developers), by then we were already in a big crisis
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 11: 57
      Spark-1030 had little to do. Impressions remained better than from the EU1840.
      But the spark didn’t have full software compatibility with IBM PC. In any case, not all the toys were launched on it :)
    2. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 11: 07
      yes there was no crisis, unless in game consoles laughing

      built-in software in the USSR was better. where did the founder of QNX come from in the USA.
  25. +5
    23 October 2014 11: 12
    I read it with great interest. I learned a lot. There was clearly a complete order with theoretical developments in the USSR. Much worse was the case with the embodiment of ideas in iron. The quality of the element base of the USSR also clearly lagged behind the bourgeois. However, IMHO, all these shortcomings were not critical, and the shortage of the characteristics of individual elements could be compensated by proper design.
    It so happened that I had nothing to do with large computers. Only read articles on them. In one of the articles, it was mentioned that the BESM-6 (legendary car!) Was very reliable. And its reliability was ensured by the fact that during the design it was laid out that the operation of each electronic component in parameters did not exceed 30% of the limit, i.e. each item had a 70% margin. IMHO, a very reasonable approach. On the one hand, it seems to be a wasteful expenditure of resources (to keep a 70% margin !!!), but on the other hand, a computer is not a refrigerator, and its simple repair will cost much.
  26. +4
    23 October 2014 11: 18
    Yes, democracy in the 90s did its job !!!
  27. +1
    23 October 2014 11: 25
    Yeah ... The author is openly disingenuous by telling only about the dawn of computer engineering ... It's like judging a marathon not by the final, but by the first kilometers. They say they ran smoothly and even pulled ahead ... but in the end what happened? Someone after 30 km. ran ahead, and who was behind and how much? Why not take a cut in 1985, when the "damned Gorbachev" had not yet started the "collapse of the Soviet Union" and evaluate their Krei and our EUs?
    1. +7
      23 October 2014 11: 38
      Why not take a cut in 1985, when the "damned Gorbachev" had not yet started the "collapse of the Soviet Union" and evaluate their Krei and our EUs?

      EUs are no longer ours, it was already a backward clone of IBM OS360. Actually, the decision to clone Western machines instead of developing their own was the beginning of the end of the domestic "computer building".
      1. -2
        23 October 2014 12: 14
        Quote: Kalmar
        EUs are no longer ours, it was already a backward clone of IBM OS360. Actually, the decision to clone Western machines instead of developing their own was the beginning of the end of the domestic "computer building".

        So what? If a marathon runner put on horseradish sneakers that prevented him from running, does this cancel the finish result? The fact that at first we corresponded to the world level and higher, and then for some reason stumbled does it cancel the fact of lag?
        1. +1
          23 October 2014 22: 36
          The fact that at first we corresponded to the world level and higher, and then for some reason stumbled does it cancel the fact of lag?

          Of course, does not cancel. It is foolish to deny that we lost the technological race in this area seriously and for a long time.
          I just wanted to say that our (namely our) computers were more than consistent with their Western counterparts, and sometimes even superior. Alas, party politics intervened in the matter, and we did not have private offices capable of working on our own initiative then.
    2. 0
      23 October 2014 11: 40
      Somewhere in 87, the "MAYAK" computer appeared, a multi-processor complex, the control machine for which was the EC1060. Gorbachev had an attempt to correct something (his first performance was in early March 85, I don't remember more precisely). but it was too late.
    3. +8
      23 October 2014 11: 48
      I cannot agree that the author is disingenuous. From my point of view, he describes the situation as it WAS. A good counterbalance to the artificially created opinion that the world owes ALL achievements in computing to the USA. And the USSR "slurped soup with bast shoes." Didn't slurp. And the USSR had real achievements. Both in theory and in practice. That does not negate the presence of a certain amount of "madhouse". In the 80s, there was a certain academician Ershov. I don't know what he was doing, maybe he brought a lot of benefits to the Motherland, but I remember him for trying to introduce russification into programming languages. WHAT FOR? Idea, IMHO, initially vicious.
      It so happened that programming languages ​​are English. And what's wrong with that? Any programmer with minimal experience is never concerned with translating into Russian ... let's say the IF .... THEN ... ELSE constructs. Perceives it as a kind of pictogram and that's it. Well, what's the point of spending efforts on introducing the "IF ... THAT ... ELSE" construction into "Soviet" programming. One harm from this. It's good that the idea seems to have died out. Or even a "mathematician" would have pulled himself together with the idea of ​​creating his own Soviet mathematical language.
      In the USSR there were many shortcomings, but the achievements were GREAT! Not in all areas we have reached shining peaks, in many directions the bourgeoisie has overtaken us, but to smear tarry the achievements of our country is also wrong. They did what they could.
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 13: 29
        > WHY? Idea, IMHO, initially vicious.
        It so happened that the programming languages ​​are English-speaking.

        the symbolic representation of the names of operators and functions is a matter of ten importance.
        1. tkhonov66
          +1
          23 October 2014 14: 20
          "...
          It so happened that the programming languages ​​are English-speaking.
          ..."
          .
          I was in the early 80s at a conference using CAD tools. It seems in Ryazan ... Well, what can I say - then everyone worked on "mainframes" (BESM, EU ...) - in batch-command mode (mainly with punched cards) and so on.
          .
          But not about that speech ...
          - When discussing reports on some next domestic CAD, I remembered a question for one of the developers.
          .
          Question to the developer:
          "Tell me - why are your CAD read and write commands designated by English abbreviations: READ and WRIT? Was it really impossible to make commands in Cyrillic?"
          .
          Developer answer:
          "The fact is that the number of characters in commands should be minimal. Well, there ... input speed ... perforation capacity ... well ... you understand. And at first we also wanted to come up with Russian-language abbreviations for I / O commands. But unfortunately, everything that can be squeezed into FOUR characters in Russian is either funny or indecent. Well, something like PISA or CHITA ... (laughter in the audience) "
          8-))
          1. +1
            23 October 2014 15: 33
            As for programming languages ​​...
            Sign and for some time used Rapira. Russian language. For convenience, perhaps even a head start would give Basic.
            One trouble - the interpreters were bad. Did not keep up with the development of staff.
            Well, and as a finale - the mass of foreign technology clearly leads to the prevalence of a foreign language.
            Did not have time, were late - flew by.
            ...
            How many English-speaking programming languages ​​have died peacefully and not be counted.
            Fate
            But the FORT language .... seems to be English-speaking, but is generally based on dash-colon-interjection points. And nothing, Mount Palomar, Arecibo radio telescopes work quite like that.
      2. 0
        23 October 2014 16: 14
        Quote: tolancop
        Well, what's the point of spending efforts on introducing the "IF ... THAT ... ELSE" construction into "Soviet" programming.

        In 1C this is still
    4. 0
      23 October 2014 20: 56
      Quote: Nayhas
      Why not take a cut in 1985, when the "damned Gorbachev" had not yet started the "collapse of the Soviet Union" and evaluate their Krei and our EUs?

      Lenin was probably mistaken about the fact that every cook could rule the state, or maybe the cook would do better than some members of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee
      Probably in vain Stalin did not agree with the plan of Marshall.
    5. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 11: 11
      then Crai and BESM-6 tongue

      Americans themselves admit that even BESM-6 is better
  28. Fast
    +1
    23 October 2014 11: 44
    Yes, the joke about the sledgehammer and someone's mother on the moon is still relevant!

    Everything must be secret, traitors to the wall!
    1. tkhonov66
      0
      23 October 2014 18: 24
      "...
      Everything must be secret, traitors to the wall!
      ..."
      .
      The regimen is necessary for fooling one's brain and one's opponent.
      But first of all - OWN ...
      8-))
  29. 3vs
    +5
    23 October 2014 11: 46
    It would be nice to submit to the article that ~ dragger who made us copy
    IBM American computers that have become our series of EU computers.
    And what ... having ours, we began to copy an outdated alien.
    1. +3
      23 October 2014 12: 00
      On the open spaces of tyrnet, there was a version that the adoption of the USSR as an IBM 360 guide was the result of a special operation.
      1. tkhonov66
        +2
        24 October 2014 12: 07
        "...
        On the open spaces of tyrnet, there was a version that the adoption of the USSR as an IBM 360 guide was the result of a special operation.
        ..."
        .
        Yes sir.
        But only special operations of the USSR.
        .
        - The main idea was that NAHALYAVU should use the whole volume of MATS, and methodological developments for its study and application - ALREADY accumulated all over the world on the "IBM 360/370" computer.
        .
        for those who are NOT IN THE TOPIC
        - REMIND:
        A computer without software is just a PIECE OF IRON.
        .
        .
        By the end of the 60s, a strange situation had developed in the union with the mathematical support for computers. Despite the small number of the class of "programmers" and computer designers (and the word "programmer" then sounded approximately like "nuclear physicist" - see "Monday starts on Saturday" from the Strugatskys), the programs being created (and they were written IN CODES !!!) ...
        .
        The program for the "Ural" did NOT (!) WORK on the "BESM-6", just as the BESM program did NOT WORK on the "Nairi" (this amazing machine was poured in the cellars of the Yerevan Brandy Factory during the third shift). It is clear that there was no question of OS uniformity, as well as, sometimes, and often even - the presence of an OS as such. However, a large country required a lot of programs, and it was foolish to write them from scratch every time in assembler. Even top-level officials understood this.
        .
        It is for these reasons that a number of meetings of the SCST took place on the issue of unification of the architecture of computers. Of course, no "betrayal" or "tragedy" (as the yellow publications and jingoistic patriots far from IT like to write) WOULD NOT.
        .
        - Scientists, military, officials tried to at least get out in the conditions of TOTAL DEFICIENCY, both of PROGRAMMERS and DESIGNERS. The problems that faced the informatics in the Union were completely illusory. All of them, one way or another, were noted by speakers at the meetings. Repeating them briefly, we get the following list:
        1) In the USSR - there is no single concept for the development of computer technology. Each department produces those cars that he likes.
        2) In the USSR - there is NO unified computer architecture, and therefore - there is no portability of programs.
        3) In the USSR, the problem of program portability is VERY ACUTE also because most (about 50%) of the programs are written IN CODES (!!) (i.e. not even "in assembler" - but directly in what turns out today AFTER assembly) ...
        4) In the USSR, programmers CATASTROPHICALLY NOT ENOUGH, as well as not enough EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, releasing them.
        5) In the USSR - there is an ACUTE LACK of both applied and SYSTEM software.
        .
        And all these problems had to be solved, and without taking urgent measures it seemed impossible to manage.
        - i.e. computer unification was simply necessary!
        .
        Of course, now we would say that competition is not such a bad thing, but let me remind you that, firstly, it was not at all in the spirit of the planned economy, and secondly, it was spent "on state money", that is, for taxpayers' money (like most scientific and technical projects in the Union). It is clear that it was possible to "compete" in this way for a very long time.
        ...
        But ... "We wanted the best - but it turned out - as always" ... (Chernomyrdin)
        .
        It soon became clear that the software did not flood, the stolen pieces did not fit together, the programs did not work. Everything had to be rewritten, but what they got was ancient, it worked poorly. It was a resounding failure ..
        .
        - But it was not quite so ...
        Because in any case, OPERATING SYSTEMS and translators from high-level languages ​​- worked quite well. And not only operating systems and translators ...
        .
        http://a-jelly.livejournal.com/429560.html
    2. +1
      23 October 2014 15: 33
      Quote: 3vs
      to the studio

      Well-known business.
      It began with the fact that the leading institutes (analogues of the design bureau) were removed from the Academy of Sciences of the USSR and transferred to various industrial ministries by order of N.S. Khrushchev. Then the question of unification of architecture and its distribution to the countries of the socialist camp (Council for Mutual Economic Assistance - CMEA) was initiated.
      Remember these black dates: January 26 1967. a joint meeting of the Commission on Computing Engineering of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR and the Council on Computing Technology of the SCST under the Council of Ministers of the USSR took place. It was there that it was decided to use American IBM-360 computers of the 1963-1964 model as a prototype of the new EU series.
      Almost all CMEA countries were against the cloning of IBM-360. The exception was the GDR, where the efforts of the domestic IBM-360 lobbyists (S.A. Krutovskikh - director of the NITSEVT, V.V. Przhiyalkovsky - general designer of the EU computer) prepared the necessary soil.
      The last nail in the lid of the coffin of domestic computer engineering was driven 18 December 1969g. at a meeting with the Minister of the Ministry of Radio Industry of the USSR V.D. Kalmykov.
      vif2ne.ru/nvz/forum/archive/221/221347.htm
      1. 3vs
        +1
        23 October 2014 21: 33
        So, Nikita not only took the Crimea from Russia, but also the Russians
        Computers
        Vrazhina !!!
        And his son lives in uniforms.
  30. +3
    23 October 2014 12: 01
    25 June
    Today, an experimental batch of universal Elbrus-8С microprocessors was launched into production, with an estimated operating frequency of 1.3 GHz. The computing power of this 250 Gflops processor, and it is produced using technology - 28 nm The receipt of finished samples of microcircuits is expected in October 2014 year.
    By the end of 2014 year prototypes of an 4 processor server based on Elbrus-8С processors with 1 teraflops performance should appear.
    The base operating system for the Elbrus platform is the Elbrus OS, built on the basis of the Linux kernel.
    flop / s
    Intel Atom [specify] - 2,1 gigaflops
    AMD Athlon 64 2,211 GHz (2003) - 8 Gigaflops [24]
    AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200 + 2,2 GHz (2006) - 13,2 Gigaflops
    Intel Core 2 Duo 2,4 GHz (2006) - 19,2 Gigaflops [25]
    Intel Core i3-2350M 2,3 GHz (2011) - 36,8 Gigaflops [26]
    AMD Athlon II X4 640 (ADX640W) 3,0 GHz (2010) - 37,39 Gigaflops
    Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 2,5 GHz - 40 Gigaflops [27]
    Intel Core i7-975 XE 3,33 GHz (2009) - 53,328 Gigaflops [28]
    AMD Phenom II X6 1075T (HDT75TFB) 3,0 GHz / 6core / 3 + 6MB / 125 W / 4000 MHz Socket AM3 - 55,6094 Gigaflops [29]
    AMD FX-8350 - 74 Gigaflops [30]
    Intel Core i5-2500K, frequencies 3,3-3,7 GHz (2011) - 105,6-118 gigaflops [31]
    MCST Elbrus 8С - ~ 250 gigaflops (operations with floating point over 32-bit data are indicated) [32]
    Intel Core i7-4930K, 3,7 frequencies - 4,2 GHz - 130 — 140 gigaflops
  31. +4
    23 October 2014 12: 32
    Pupils and students need to tell such a story of our state so that they know the achievements of our scientists. I myself did not know that we were ahead of the rest in the creation of computers good
    Thanks to the author for the article!
  32. 0
    23 October 2014 13: 13
    Quote: wanderer_032


    Конечно.
    But how then did the MIG-25 and MIG-31 interceptors turn out to be in the USSR which are still unsurpassed anywhere in the world by TTX production aircraft of this class?


    In a fantasy world? The glider is very good, electronics are amusing.

    Quote: wanderer_032

    An anomaly of some kind and only.
    And what about "Buran", which made an unmanned flight and landing?
    Aren't our Strategic Missile Forces at that time the medium that instantly cooled the ardor of the greedy ambitions of some overseas "friends"?
    But air defense in the USSR, was not a reliable shield?
    And the missile systems of surface ships and nuclear submarines of the USSR Navy were also just a scarecrow?
    What about computer systems for artillery and tactical missile systems?

    At all these complexes and in all these weapons systems, computer technology was used and it solved its tasks very well.
    So good that even after the collapse of the USSR, no one dared to openly climb their troops to our country.

    How does this deny the fact that the element base lags in electronics?
    1. wanderer_032
      +1
      23 October 2014 13: 37
      Quote: mimo-crock3
      How does this deny the fact that the element base lags in electronics?


      But no way. But it confirms another fact, which suggests that even with such an elemental base, our weapons systems were in no way inferior, and in many cases even superior to foreign models, which had a more developed elemental base, in their performance characteristics.
      And this superiority was not "exaggerated", but quite real. Moreover, this was recognized from the “other side”.
    2. wanderer_032
      +2
      23 October 2014 13: 48
      Quote: mimo-crock3
      In a fantasy world?


      Then find and show the serial and armed with the armament of any country, the interceptor that surpasses the MIG-31 that we have in service with in all performance indicators, at least for those times.
    3. +2
      23 October 2014 14: 00
      The fact of lag in the elemental base of electronics does not deny this.
      This denies the fact of the technical and technological backwardness of the USSR. The shortage of designers and technologists of enterprises manufacturing electronic components was compensated by the work of designers and technologists of enterprises manufacturing equipment. As a result, masterpieces came out. Although garbage was also abundant.
    4. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 14: 18
      what amusing? It is resistant to EMP. Americans really weren’t laughing.
  33. +1
    23 October 2014 14: 03
    Quote: Sour
    This is not the inertia of thinking, but the organic and fatal vice of the socialist economy - a weak connection with demand. More precisely, very weak. The entire production program of any socialist enterprise (quantity, nomenclature, consumers, price, etc.) was a set of planned indicators and was actually untied from demand.

    Plans for the production and purchase of consumer goods were based precisely on the analysis of demand. By the way, the State Planning Commission also had powerful computers, and analysts were very competent people. That is why forecasting algorithms developed in the USSR State Planning Commission are used today by the Japanese. Or are the Japanese fools too? The only thing that was not taken into account was the monkey effect of the shiny packaging. On which many bought in an attempt to destroy the Soviet system. Sometimes glass beads sparkle stronger than uncut diamond, but this does not make them more valuable.
    Quote: tasha
    The author, since you have described in such detail the period of development of Soviet computers from 1945 to 1979, then for completeness, also describe the period 1979-1991. Most of the statements about the backlog of the USSR in the field of military equipment refer to this period, quite deservedly, in my opinion.

    The article describes the period up to 1990. This is the year of Elbrus-3 creation. So, not since 79, we had bad things. It became bad since 1987. But, even in spite of this, we made Elbrus-3, surpassing the American Craig. But the fact that Elbrus-3 was scrapped in 1994 is another story that has nothing to do with technical issues. He would work now, like the American analogue works, It's just that someone made good money on this American candy wrappers.
    And for a more modern period I wanted to add this:
    On October 27, 2007 the Russian microprocessor "Elbrus E3M" passed state tests. The most intriguing part is as follows: "In terms of architectural, logical and software solutions, the Elbrus-3M1 computing complex is at the modern world level, and surpasses it in a number of solutions." It is stated that in terms of absolute speed, the new EZM processor is on average similar to Pentium 4 2 GHz. As for the architectural performance, the new development outperforms the famous Itanium by 2,5 times, and Pentium 4 and Xeon - 6,5 times. "
    But above there is more recent news.
    1. +4
      24 October 2014 00: 05
      Quote: qwert
      So, not since 79, we had a bad time. It has become worse since 1987.

      CRUNE BECAME IN 1967 at a joint meeting of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers.

      "On December 30, 1967, the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers adopted a resolution" On the development of the production of computer technology " (No.1180-420).


      This decree instructed the Ministry of Radio Industry to develop the Ryad complex of information computers and organize its mass production.

      Much later, programming gurus Edsger Dijkstra


      will say that Resolution No. 1180-420 was "the greatest victory of the West in the Cold War."
      1. Kassandra
        0
        29 October 2014 14: 25
        let this guru program better, because the USSR was somewhat lagging behind only in means of X-ray lithography, and for this, the CIA and others like them regularly shot and poisoned the USSR. or even with special cynicism, killing relatives then seated his client in a madhouse.
  34. A40263S
    0
    23 October 2014 14: 12
    The matter may not even be so much in the processors themselves, our country has always been famous for its advanced developments and there is no point in arguing and objecting, but in the practical further implementation of these developments. In addition, it is a very important fact: the absence or almost absence of its own element base, its production lines of these processors, motherboards, etc. microelectronics developments on several layers .. There is no chronic lack of trained personnel for servicing these lines, a chronic shortage of specialists in microelectronics, all study for law economists, etc. Or as usual China will help us ??? or do we learn how to make and sell computer products of our own production ?? it’s a pity that these are just words, the reality is that our production apart from the military-industrial complex will not look like it, it’s not a pity ..
    1. tkhonov66
      +1
      24 October 2014 12: 18
      "...
      The matter may not even be so much in the processors themselves, our country has always been famous for its advanced developments and there is no point in arguing and objecting, but in the practical further implementation of these developments.
      ..."
      .
      - SOFT! SOFT and SOFT again !!!
      .
      In the USSR, a reel of PURE magnetic tape and a reel of magnetic tape with the OPERATING SYSTEM recorded on it — for accounting — cost ALONE.
      .
      Ie SOFT - not worth ANYTHING.
      .
      This is what caused the catastrophic situation with our computer technology. Due to the extremely SKIND software suite - it was simply IMPOSSIBLE WIDE TO APPLY. Because in EVERY EVENT it was necessary to write SOFTWARE, and then it had to be debugged. And although the cost of software was not taken into account in accounting, nevertheless the software was written LONG and therefore EXPENSIVE.
      .
      But without SOFT - any processor is a tool for hammering nails!
      .
      In such and such an acceptance.
      .
      And then they started ... processors, processors ...
      .
      What will you do with a processor without an operating system ?!
      but in 1978 in the USSR there were simply NO (!) operating systems, and most programs (for example, for BESM-4) were written not even in assembler - but "in machine CODES" !!!! with decimal addresses! In 1978, the first translator for BESM-4 with ALGOLA - "TA-1" - very short and without text data types just appeared in the USSR.
      - that’s where the problem was!
      1. +2
        25 October 2014 18: 27
        Quote: tkhonov66
        In 1978, the first translator for BESM-4 with ALGOL appeared in the USSR - "TA-1" - very short and without text data types
        Ashipka. wink
        In April 1976 he was on his first computer - BESM-4.
        The TA-1M translator was already in full use on it.
  35. 0
    23 October 2014 14: 13
    Thanks Edward. Truth triumphs and time puts everything in its place. Russia is always and in everything!
  36. +1
    23 October 2014 14: 20
    Quote: professor
    and under his leadership, in 1993, Intel developed a Pentium processor, rumored to be named after Pentkovsky

    Of course... wassat 286, 386, 486, 586 ... although no. Five is "pente" (πέντε) in Greek and therefore the fifth series was named Pentium in honor of Pentkovsky.

    .

    Vaughth is now thinking ... Rumors are rumors, why is it really not 586? And why then 286 was not called Sterium, but 486 Quadrium? From Greek stereo (two), quadro (four) ??? It seems that the rumors do not lie ...
    Quote: professor
    Personally, he witnessed the shock of both guests and hosts. The guests were precipitated when they were shown the engine room of a trawler made to the smallest detail (including miniature fire extinguishers, screw, etc.) on a scale of 1 to 20. The hosts were speechless from the Spanish system, which then made it possible to calculate where any pipe would pass and whether it would cross another pipe, as well as what technique it was all calculated on.

    A special case of using a private program. At the same time, at our aviation institute, domestic computers were drawing out the blades of compressors and jet engine turbines. But the mathematical model of the combustion process is legally considered the most complex. At the same time, I was a student and without any difficulties I received the necessary results for the coursework on SM-ke. So, an intelligent graduate of a matfak in the specialty programming would write a program for pipes as well.
    1. -1
      24 October 2014 04: 36
      Quote: qwert
      Vaughth is now thinking ... Rumors are rumors, why is it really not 586? And why then 286 was not called Sterium, but 486 Quadrium? From Greek stereo (two), quadro (four) ??? It seems that the rumors do not lie ...

      Do you even imagine how a bourgeois company works? Who determines the name of the product and how? wink

      Quote: qwert
      A special case of using a private program.

      I can cite a bunch of "special cases of using a private program" from which the system is formed.
  37. +2
    23 October 2014 14: 31
    Quote: mimo-crock3


    Конечно.
    But how then did the MIG-25 and MIG-31 interceptors turn out to be in the USSR which are still unsurpassed anywhere in the world by TTX production aircraft of this class?


    In a fantasy world? The glider is very good, the electronics are amusing

    I didn’t understand if the Zaslon radar station was funny in the 80s, or it’s not an electronics, but a purely mechanical device ???? Or maybe the Su-27 radar was inferior to the F-15E radar? And what about the Su-27 jamming station? After all, she was superior in characteristics to the American one, and the weight was almost identical. Here you get inconsistencies.
    1. tkhonov66
      0
      23 October 2014 18: 27
      "...
      And the jamming station on the Su-27? After all, it was superior in characteristics to the American one, and the weight was almost identical. Here you have problems.
      ..."
      .
      - The enemy’s agents - DO NOT NAP!
      Bring it to PURE WATER !!!
  38. +2
    23 October 2014 15: 02
    I really liked the article. The author is a plus. Accessible and understandable to the layman. Cursing everything "MADE IN USSR", now we very often fondly and fondly remember everything that was done according to GOST. Even at the grocery store. This is something guaranteed unshakable and real. Like in the review I read about the boats "Tarantula" (according to NATO), which were taken to the GDR, where the radar system was still tube and NATO members were shocked by its reliability. We don’t know how to present ourselves, probably we didn’t know how, due to the lack of market competition, to enter the high road. There was one competition - the arms race. And there we did not yield. Well done all the same, our fathers and grandfathers. What they did still scares the West and keeps them at bay. It counts, flies, shoots, drives, etc. despite the years. And we have forgotten how to look at the West. They tried to catch up with the help of the West - and we are still "MISTRALAT", and IN FACT WHEN WE COULD YOURSELF BETTER THAN ALL.
    1. +1
      23 October 2014 15: 40
      You know, I have a 60s oscilloscope in my warehouse. It has been without turning on since the 80s, when it turned on - complete disappointment - silence. I began to understand - the contacts of the power cord connection were oxidized and weakened (probably moisture got into it). I cleaned, turned on and working the smoking room!

      Now everything is done with an aim that in 5 years it is necessary to replace it with a new model, respectively, the "safety margin" is lower.
    2. +1
      23 October 2014 17: 48
      For centuries, the West has been trying to mystify us ...

      Influence agents, decided to stop their development (the same BESM-6) and switch to the IBM360 system.

      Which in the USSR became known as EC-computers: EU-1020, EU-1022, EU-1030, EU-1033, EU-1045 ... the last EU-1065 ... that's where the ambush ...

      It was later Intel tried to copy (for example K1810BM86 - intel 8086)
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 21: 30
        Prior to KR1810VM86, there were KR580IK80A (K580IK80) analogue of I8080
        1. 0
          24 October 2014 18: 21
          Yes, this is understandable ... 580 was - Radio-PK86 was such a compic smile , and there were a bunch of others
        2. 0
          24 October 2014 18: 21
          Yes, this is understandable ... 580 was - Radio-PK86 was such a compic smile , and there were a bunch of others
      2. Kassandra
        0
        29 October 2014 14: 29
        then intel copied Elbrus

        all of you somehow did not understand - the personal computers prior to the fact of this borrowing were game consoles or intelligent terminals for large machines or mid-level servers. even graphic design stations, until very recently, were durg iron and with other software.

        The EU is an international business machine ... keep statistics, drive analytics, manage the enterprise, and more.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. qq
      0
      25 October 2014 04: 05
      It seems to me that if a person is talented in many ways, then the person himself perceives it as a matter of course, it doesn't happen in another way ... And in our country, every first Kulibin-Lomonosov is like that - so why "present yourself" ...
      This is unthinking Pts. practical (to modify other people's ideas, to patent - to commercialize). Normally, the Great Yusovsky composer D. Gershwin created his musical masterpiece on the processing of Ukrainian folk songs. I listened to the touring Ukrainian choir - and went to play music))
  39. 0
    23 October 2014 16: 17
    Quote: Vladimir73
    You know, I have a 60s oscilloscope in my warehouse.

    hour is not C9-1?
    1. 0
      24 October 2014 10: 05
      S1-68 Gum truth on the upper handle crumbled.
  40. +2
    23 October 2014 17: 52
    Quote: adept666
    The electronic industry of the USSR has become a hostage to the ideology of the state

    I remember the article in Malaya Sov. encyclopedias of 1955: "Cybernetics is a bourgeois pseudoscience spreading in the West." They also wrote about genetics.
    I am not familiar with computer technology by hearsay - I have been working with it since the mid-70s. Unfortunately, the further development of the BESM line was abandoned, and the EC computers were copied from IBM computers as well. Of these, the most reliable was the EU 1055, which was produced in the GDR. CM mini-computers - clones of PC computers. The operating system SM OS RV is a clone of RSX11M. Our system programmers preferred RSX11M. And copying means lagging behind. I myself did not work at BESM-6, but from those who worked I heard only good things about it.
  41. -5
    23 October 2014 18: 43
    We used this masterpiece at the institute. No need to strain your memory in trying to find a normal computer in the USSR, all this was contrary to the old-academics and with the borders locked. Only they were discovered and several million people with a mathematical mindset left forever from Soviet lies and quagmires. The number one task for today is to make life in Russia at all costs meet the requirements of the creative class (programmers are a significant part of it, but also artists, directors, architects, designers and others are vital for the Russian Federation). They leave all the time - two weeks ago the guy left for Germany - an intelligent system programmer will support the Bundes online store. And he didn’t leave because of money - there are more salaries in the Russian Federation - because of the current policy of returning to the USSR.
    1. +5
      24 October 2014 00: 35
      Quote: sot
      And he didn’t leave because of money - there are more salaries in the Russian Federation - because of the current policy of returning to the USSR.

      oh, how richly outlined in language!
      Dive back to where they came from.
      They drive for money and in a warm climate.
      Look what a green winter this year has stood out and white came abruptly!
    2. tkhonov66
      +6
      24 October 2014 12: 28
      "...
      They leave all the time - two weeks ago the guy left for Germany - an intelligent system programmer will support the Bundes online store.
      ..."
      .
      Dear, "intelligent system programmer" - there is NOTHING TO DO while maintaining the "online store". And as a result, there will come - FULL DISQUALIFICATION ...
      8 - ((
      .
      It is almost the same as leaving to work as a janitor ...
      .
      So your post just confirms your COMPLETE ILLITERANCE in programming (you just don't understand the term "system programming") - and your political engagement with the US State Department.
      .
      SHAME - illiterate agents of the Washington Department of State influence!
      8- (
    3. +1
      27 October 2014 12: 44
      Uebenzebitte !!!!!!! Something like this!!!
    4. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 08: 46
      The first American mouse looked much worse.

      Trackballs were invented and widely used in the USSR for a long time and generally they are better, they just clog faster.
  42. +2
    23 October 2014 18: 49
    The very idea of ​​a PC is wiring, there was no reason to chase after them and copy, it was necessary to further develop the "mainframes" (in which we were ahead) and introduce them to the masses. A PC is beneficial only for the manufacturer, because it is more profitable to sell you a bunch of personal computers than one server and several terminals to access it. A modern PC is, in fact, stupidly idle most of the time, its resources are rarely assigned to more than 20%. But at the same time, they consume energy and cost you money when you buy. Do not believe me, open the Windows task manager and see the processor and RAM load there. The picture is about the same with small and medium-sized specialized servers. Therefore, now advanced campaigns are introducing virtualization, cloud services and everything else, which allows you to keep as little hardware as possible, and use as much of it as possible.
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 22: 39
      A PC is beneficial only for the manufacturer, because it is more profitable to sell you a bunch of personal computers than one server and several terminals to access it.

      Ohh, how wrong you are. Trading servers and mainframes is much more profitable than staffing for a number of reasons (I can read more if I'm interested). It is no coincidence that monsters like IBM at one time completely scored on personalities and focused on server solutions.
      At that time, personal computers were necessary in any case: communication networks were poorly developed, so it was necessary to be able to do more work "on site", pulling the server to a minimum. Now, when access to the network at a good speed can be organized even in the middle of the taiga, the role of personal computers will decrease, but who knows how it will all turn out later.
      1. 0
        24 October 2014 16: 10
        Let's get more details. Do you want to say that it’s cheaper to buy 100 staffs plus one more for each software than one powerful server and 100 terminals (I mean terminal = monitor + input devices, not a weak pc) to it?
        IBM does not sell mainframes by themselves, but individual solutions for each client using mainframes, + support. It seems that other monsters do the same. Now IBM is promoting "large" servers that are geared towards virtualization, which are cheaper for clients than several separate specialized ones.
        The development of networks at that time was not necessary — let’s say, let’s say, one mainframe to the plant, then the terminals from it are displayed at the workplace — this is not a network, but stupid wires.
        1. +1
          24 October 2014 21: 34
          Do you want to say that it’s cheaper to buy 100 staffs plus one more for each software than one powerful server and 100 terminals (I mean terminal = monitor + input devices, not a weak pc) to it?

          Consider at least one aspect from a seller’s perspective. So you sold some organization 100 PCs with software. Most likely, they will serve their organization on their own, or they will hire anyone (setting up staff is a simple matter). When some of them break down or need to be updated, the organization may contact you, or maybe not you, if someone offers cheaper parts. In general, you have to constantly fight for the client, and it’s not a fact that it will work out heavily to weld on it after the sale of the original batch.

          The server is another matter. This server will become for the client the center of his entire IT infrastructure, everything and everyone will be tied to it. This means that the client is on the hook: he will regularly pay for support, he will only order components from you, he will pay only your specialists for service, etc. And we are talking here about very serious amounts, it's not just for you to "install Windows and clean it from viruses." And yes, terminal access is not free either; for many serious products, the ability to work through the terminal is rather robust so it is charged for each bed.

          The development of networks at that time was not necessary — let’s say, let’s say, one mainframe to the plant, then the terminals from it are displayed at the workplace — this is not a network, but stupid wires.

          Are the wires not a network? When "access to the body" has only a caste of the elite (ACS) sitting not far from this very mainframe, there is no problem. And if you really need full automation? So that accounting, and personnel, and material accounting, and production planning, and even hell knows what? We get a bunch of clients scattered over a huge territory and driving a lot of data back and forth. And the grid of those years is not even a 10Mbit battery ...
          1. 0
            28 October 2014 17: 48
            Well, this is a matter of marketing and how suppliers sell the server. No one forbids, for example, to build your own and organize terminal access, in my UNIX it allows it. The question is profitability - if you have only one workplace, then a PC is naturally more profitable.

            Quote: Kalmar
            And the wires are not a network?
            yes, not a network. The network by the wires is protocols, devices for receiving and transmitting and processing data. The wire from the monitor to the computer is not a network. If we don’t want to pull wires over a huge territory, we put clients closer to the body, what are the problems?
            1. Kassandra
              0
              29 October 2014 14: 54
              telephone lines are already tightened - what problems?
              Yes, besides IBM, many people produce large machines, they can also be assembled yourself, just like the staff.

              you all somehow forgot that the data in them is much better protected than in networks based on personal computers. serious firms always only use them. LAN, if any, is auxiliary, and so that plankton is not bored.
              1. 0
                29 October 2014 15: 43
                True, data protection is another big plus of such systems.
                Telephone lines are an option; only data transfer protocols and corresponding network cards are needed. The article mentioned a radio network between two computers, maybe some protocols already existed then. We get the terminal = monitor + input devices + data transmit-receive device.
                1. Kassandra
                  0
                  29 October 2014 18: 04
                  it is a terminal network (with long ranges for connecting with modems or repeaters), and protocols there may be required only if you have to connect two machines and not a machine and a terminal device. network cards are not needed - just in the terminal there is a serial port by which it connects to the network through the cord.
                  nothing is simpler and cheaper, and cannot be smile

                  encryption so that no one "listens" can be released by a separate block (chip) to the terminal, it already depends on how "intelligent" it is.
                  1. 0
                    29 October 2014 18: 41
                    It will hardly work to transmit the analogue singal to the monitor through the telephone wire. It would be easier to run special multicore cables from the "body" to the terminals, something like a mixture of VGA with PS / 2 in one bottle. All the same, it will cost less than installing a PC for each.
                    1. Kassandra
                      0
                      29 October 2014 18: 48
                      there is an emulation of a serial port or an adapter for USB. USB is the same "serial" smile
                      so don't screw it up ... fellow
                      Video on ADSL somehow chases easily.

                      all this iron of varying degrees of complexity has long been there, multi-user work began with terminal (both graphic and alphanumeric) networks.

                      By the way, they somehow forgot that the workplace is not only a Monitor but also a keyboard with a mouse, which distinguishes the terminal from just a monitor.
                      1. 0
                        29 October 2014 23: 28
                        I have not forgotten that in the comments above I called the keyboard and mouse "input devices". Although yes, you are right - you can connect a mouse, keyboard and monitor at once via USB, I have even seen such devices. And in USB from 4 wires 2-power supply, therefore, a two-wire telephone wire is quite enough for reception and transmission. drinks
  43. +2
    23 October 2014 19: 06
    I understand everything, the difficult times of the 90s and so on. But what the hell to go to the Americans and give them such an obvious head start in the fight against a country that was once your MOTHERLAND for you ?! Pentkovsky is certainly a talent and I don’t know what this man lived before traveling to the USA, but I don’t think he was starving. It turns out that the dream to realize their ideas turned out to be much stronger than love for the motherland. Forgive me, of course, but apart from betrayal I can’t call such actions.
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 19: 37
      Quote: dejavu
      Pentkovsky is certainly a talent and I don’t know what this man lived before traveling to the USA, but I don’t think he was starving. It turns out that the dream to realize their ideas turned out to be much stronger than love for the motherland. Forgive me, of course, but apart from betrayal I can’t call such actions.

      Call it what you want. They don’t run from a good life. Ufimtsev P.Ya. which patriots love to be proud of (they say that the Soviet scientist stood at the origins of the stealth technology!) fled to the United States while the USSR was still alive. Andrei Game and Konstantin Novoselov fled from already modern Russia, also not seeing any prospects for themselves.
    2. 0
      23 October 2014 23: 26
      It turns out that the dream to realize their ideas was much stronger than love for the motherland. Forgive me, of course, but apart from betrayal I can’t call such actions.

      This is called "what we have - we do not store, having lost - we cry." The Motherland brushed aside these ideas, they say, it is not necessary and all that. So now she, the Motherland, has no moral right to complain that these ideas have leaked to someone else.
      1. Kassandra
        0
        29 October 2014 15: 05
        there was and is a team that specially breeds such "orders" in the country to squeeze out trained, qualified and talented brains abroad - they have few of their own, so they live by this.
        like honey from bees. the bees themselves are non-kosher insects, and honey from them - yes, a very authorized product. the only such case.
        do you understand?
        in america there are almost no local specialists, probably in israel too. everything is mainly done by visitors. either done it a long time ago or recently.
    3. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 15: 01
      betray their ... do not teach them anything and do not buy anything from them in that case, let them go to work on the earth with their hands. then they will tell whose kibbutz is more interesting.
  44. -2
    23 October 2014 19: 44
    Gentlemen, cheers and Kremlin propagandists, you yourself are not funny from what you write?
    The Elbrus 2000 series of processors was supposed to be released in (guess three times) around the 2000s.
    Also, Elbrus processors were to be released in 2004,2005,2006, etc. And almost always they were superior to Intel processors, and even more so to AMD processors.
    You probably sit from the Elbrus in the internet, write no other way ...
    Tomorrow, our miracle developers will show us some kind of box and say that it surpasses its Western counterparts and will soon go on sale. And after tomorrow the process will be repeated anew ...
    If everything is clear with the Kremlin propagandists, then I advise patriots to visit our largest Russian forum (look for laziness, excuse me) and read interesting stories about Elbrus processors and super-developer Babayan there. Pink glasses crack.
    And on the topic: the achievements of Soviet scientists in computers were and they need to be remembered, but only without cheer and patriotism.
    Although not an expert, something tells me that they began to copy Western developments not from a good life and not as an alternative to our "innovative" computers.
    1. tkhonov66
      0
      24 October 2014 12: 32
      "...
      cheers to patriots I advise you to visit our largest Russian forum (link to search for laziness, sorry
      ..."
      .
      - DO NOT SORRY!
      and don’t dream - Mr. Washington lackey-holuevich ...
      8-))
      - Nefih hack!
      Fulfill Washington grants to the fullest - with LINKS!
      8-)))
    2. +2
      24 October 2014 22: 49
      Quote: KKND
      Though not a specialist,

      Maybe then you should not carry a blizzard? wink
      Our air defense and missile defense systems, nuclear power plants, airplanes, etc. work on elbrus.
      The fact that it is not available to users, there were reasons for this, including very serious ones.
  45. +3
    23 October 2014 21: 13
    the trouble of the Soviet system is the lack of competition and its majesty. If you make a plan, you will be at a premium and held in high esteem. He worked in a civilian and in the defense industry. The difference is that while working in the defense industry the collective farms did not bother. And if the bus driver received 350-400 rubles, then the engineer even got a defense of 250. The military’s achievements did not fall into civilian life, the technological base was weak, more than weak. Intel 8080 was copied under the name 580 and so on, and then it didn’t work out anymore.
    1. +1
      24 October 2014 13: 32
      Yeah, if you don’t want 120 rubles, it’s enough for you ...
  46. +3
    23 October 2014 21: 21
    Quote: Stanislav
    I did not know that I was using a processor named after the emigrant, if not to say, a deserter.


    stop Do not offend the Penthouse in vain.
    In the USSR, there was a competition for the development of computer architecture for the coming decades. 2 projects reached the final: "Academician" and Penthovsky. The project of the academician performed the tasks according to the set TK better than the project of Pentkhovsky. The scientist-engineer Pentkhovsky with his architecture already "did not shine" in the USSR and he was released abroad (the KGB allowed), as his technology was worse than approved.
    You shouldn't call Penthovsky's man a "deserter". It's not his fault.

    The fact that the Americans managed to advertise and sell in huge numbers a processor that is weaker than the one developed by the Soviet "academician" is definitely not Penkhovsky's fault. Well Americans even know how to sell shit
    1. tkhonov66
      0
      24 October 2014 12: 34
      "...
      Well, Americans are able to even sell shit
      ..."
      .
      - that’s how to learn ours too ...
      .
      But Lenin still told them - LEARN TO TRADE!
      - yes, see feed not in the horse ...
  47. +3
    23 October 2014 22: 14
    Yes it was
    in the 70 years M.A. Kartsev

    for the first time in the world, he proposed and implemented the concept of a fully parallel computing system with parallelizing programs, commands, data, and words. These ideas were embodied in yet another super-computer, the M-10, and in 1978, the design of the vector-conveyor computer M-13 was developed in the year XNUMX.

    then: the development of computer technology focusing on foreign designs somewhat slowed down its own development. As a result, work was completed to improve the promising BESM line - BESM-8 and BESM-10.

    copying made it possible to save huge financial resources of the country by reducing the cost of research and development in the field of circuitry and writing the appropriate software (the cost of original software for IBM360 was estimated by its developers at $ 25 billion), a study of microprocessors of well-known companies was launched. There were design bureaus where microcircuit crystals were scanned in layers. Based on the results, our own models were created ..

    But the USSR GOSTs are oriented to the metric system, and the inch scale dominates among computer components. This problem concerns not only cases and boards, but also microcircuits, including the distance between the contacts. As a result, engineers, even with samples, had to re-design their products.

    In the 70's there was a project for the production of domestic computers with RISK processors (the ideas of such processors were formulated long before foreign publications) by one of the foreign companies. At the same time, the company took over not only the production of computers, but also marketing and implementation. However, the project came across numerous departmental approvals that took several years. As a result, time was lost, and the world did not see a promising development promising billions in revenue, and less perfect foreign analogues reigned in the market
  48. 0
    23 October 2014 22: 19
    Pentkovsky - Pentium ... yes, a coincidence

    And how do you like this coincidence -


    Intel 8080 - An 8-bit microprocessor released by Intel at 1974 year.



    KR580BM80A - 8-bit microprocessor. Produced since 1977 plant "Kvazar". Another super-development of Soviet scientists, "ahead of its time"

    For especially gifted jingoistic patriots - yes, the KR580VM80A was a complete copy of the Intel 8080 processor, only a few years late ... These are the "Myths of the USA. The backwardness of Soviet computer technology." ... Is there still a desire to argue on obvious issues?
    --------------------------------------------

    As for the article, my favorite author (E. Reshetnikov), as usual, distorted the information (the tricks used - the lie of silence, the lie of understatement, juggling of facts), giving the wishful thinking.

    The main deception (or mistake) of the author - he scrupulously examined the first Soviet computers of the 50 period, without saying a word about the 70-80x period, to which the statement about the backwardness of Soviet electronics is more relevant.
    =========================================
    As for the Elbrus processor family, it’s another bluff of the Russian military-industrial complex. Obviously outdated processor, not having a chance to break into the civilian market.

    In 2009, it was planned to complete the development of the Elbrus-S microprocessor (SoC, systems on a chip) using the 90 nm process technology
    - The creators of the "Elbrus" campaign went completely stupid. 90 nm in 2009 - when the Pentium Core2006Duo launched in 2 was made on the 65 nm process technology
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 22: 27
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Pentkovsky - Pentium ... yes, a coincidence

      And how do you like this coincidence -


      Intel 8080 - An 8-bit microprocessor released by Intel at 1974 year.


      KR580BM80A - 8-bit microprocessor. Produced since 1977 plant "Kvazar". Another super-development of Soviet scientists, "ahead of its time"

      For especially gifted cheer patriots - yes, the KR580VM80A was a complete copy of the Intel 8080 processor, it was only a few years late


      A very interesting fact! Thank!
      1. 0
        25 October 2014 01: 26
        At one time, no one hid the fact of copying this processor. By the way, initially it had the name K580IK80A and was produced in a black plastic case. Then there was the VM85 "based on" the I8085. It seems that the analogue of the I8086 was KR1886, but in this case I could be wrong.
        As you see, no one hid the names of the ancestors.
      2. 0
        25 October 2014 11: 52
        Quote: studentmati
        A very interesting fact! Thank!

        There is even an emulator of this processor) For those interested, plunge into the world of calculators) link
        http://kaf403.rloc.ru/CSMP/Emulator580.pdf laughing
      3. Kassandra
        0
        29 October 2014 08: 55
        the fact is that even Pentkovsky did not help, and intellect was raised only by purchasing the know-how of Elbrus

        Motorola could have something else

        boys, laugh, laugh ... when the Americans first got inside BESM-6, they had a shock even after 25 years

        but the fact that the ES computers were "American" is nothing - the trams in the USSR were also Czech. bully
    2. 0
      23 October 2014 22: 49
      > as usual, I distorted the information (the techniques used were a lie of silence, a lie of understatement, falsification of facts), passing off wishful thinking.

      the role of the exposer of social vices is somewhat unsuitable for you, madam (c)
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 22: 53
        Quote: xtur
        the role of the exposer of social vices does not suit you somewhat

        Essentially there is something to add?
        1. tkhonov66
          0
          24 October 2014 12: 39
          And what do you consider "the essence of the question"?
          What would you like to hear?
          8-))
        2. 0
          24 October 2014 21: 14
          >> the role of the denouncer of social vices is somewhat unsuitable for you

          > Essentially there is something to add?

          this is called a hint.
          I specifically chose this form of presentation of my thoughts. But the rest, of course, are free to pretend, or really do not understand this hint
    3. +1
      23 October 2014 23: 46
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Another super-development of Soviet scientists, "ahead of its time"

      What about the Setun Trinity Computer?
      In 1970, 46 Setun-70s were already produced.
      And Ternac (and that is just an experimental binary ternary computer emulator) appeared in 1973
      ----------------
      "MIR-2" with a special high-level language ANALYTICS, which was implemented in hardware. Without compiler
      punch tape input, punch tape output, Zoemtron electric typewriter, magnetic card drive, vector graphic display with a light pen.


      Do you believe the opinion of Academician N.N. Moiseev, having learned about the experience of your colleagues from the USA:
      "I saw that in technology we practically do not lose: the same tube computing monsters, the same endless failures, the same magicians-engineers in white coats who fix breakdowns, and wise mathematicians who are trying to get out of difficult situations."
      IBM 701 (1953), of course the appearance does not take away




      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      As for the Elbrus processor family - another bluff of the domestic

      Well, it's not for nothing that they call her "ElBarrows"
      The main ideas of Elbrus were solid at Burroughs and Creil.
      1. tkhonov66
        0
        24 October 2014 12: 42
        "...
        The main ideas of Elbrus were solid at Burroughs and Creil.
        ..."
        .
        - you HERE mean, probably "Ohm's law" and "rules of binary addition"?
        8-)))
        .
        be more specific - and the people will reach for you ...
        8-)
        1. Kassandra
          0
          29 October 2014 09: 15
          then the intellect, greedy for knowledge and tight-fisted, would come not to Elbrus but to Burroughs and Cray ...

          a, Buhl - the current is always on any one, either there is or it is not ... another thing is the ternary (!) Soviet computers which have already been written about here, "in pictures."
      2. +1
        24 October 2014 22: 32
        You my friend are confusing different "Edbrus". It's like a gift from God and scrambled eggs.
        1. Kassandra
          0
          29 October 2014 09: 16
          he doesn’t confuse, he just understands how a pig in oranges ...
    4. 0
      25 October 2014 07: 32
      I want to fix the top photo is KR580VM80Aand lower Intel 8080
  49. +1
    23 October 2014 22: 52
    The backwardness of Soviet electronics is undoubtedly a myth of the USA

    It all began in a Soviet way:

    The bourgeois press widely advertised a new science - cybernetics. This fashionable false theory, put forward by a group of American "scientists", claims to solve all the core scientific problems and to save humanity from all social disasters. Cybernetic affection has gone through various branches of knowledge: physiology, psychology, sociology, psychiatry, linguistics, etc. According to cybernetics, the reason for creating their pseudoscience was the similarity between the human brain and modern complex machines.

    - Yaroshevsky M. "Cybernetics - the" science "of obscurantists"Literary Newspaper, 1952, April 5. 42 No. (2915)

    There is nothing even to stand out in bold color - each word from a quote delivers with its tenacity and obscurantism

    ... In fact, they always consisted and consist in masking the failures of the creators of "thinking" machines, wishful thinking, speculating on the actual achievements of modern technology for the most unbridled and deceitful imperialist propaganda.
    - “Cybernetka or longing for mechanical soldiers”, “Technique - youth”, August 1952, p.34


    Well, with such an attitude, there’s nothing even to ask about the reasons for the backwardness of Soviet electronics


    WE ARE WAITING FOR A NEW ARTICLE from E. Reshetnikov - "Myths of the USA. Backwardness of Soviet Genetics"
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 22: 55
      > WE ARE WAITING FOR A NEW ARTICLE from E. Reshetnikov - "Myths of the USA. Backwardness of Soviet Genetics"

      I didn’t have time to hint that the fight against competitors was too noticeable and disapproving, as you confirmed in all

      you would focus on your articles, it would be more honest - IMHO
    2. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 09: 32
      But is there such a thing? Research Institute of Microbiology seems to be on top.

      Genetics is, like cybernetics, really lenauka - no need to confuse science and technology.
  50. +3
    23 October 2014 22: 59
    5E92b April 2014, still working.
    1. +1
      23 October 2014 23: 11
      Quote: vignat21
      E92 in April 2014, still working.

      Somehow they brought me plastic stamped watches - they were sold in bulk in China, by weight

      And such a penny watch, on a white plastic strap, lasted 8 years - it went exactly, without replacing the battery, without failures and stops, even when the strap frayed and the glass was scratched ... But this is not a reason to say that Chinese stamped watches - the peak of excellence and the best watch in the world ?!

      With the admirers of the USSR, the story is about the same: the main and only reason for pride in Soviet production is reliability. The rest is efficiency and speed (as in the case of a computer), the cost of things, sound quality (as in the case of a tape recorder or player), their ergonomics, appearance, etc. - all this was simply not given attention.
      1. +1
        23 October 2014 23: 23
        I think this is not about the USSR and even the Chinese watches. It was just that in those days, reliability and durability were a priority. Now for consumer goods, another principle operates: a thing must serve a certain period of time, and then go to the trash heap so that a new, "better" one takes its place.
      2. +2
        24 October 2014 21: 47
        The solution of nonlinear third-order differential equations was strong and very successful for her, and that’s speed.
        1. 0
          25 October 2014 00: 52
          I tried it myself, I agree.
      3. +1
        27 October 2014 12: 58
        You're right, not given. But why. There was no need for fun. People worked and they had enough of what is. And reliability, yes. Refrigerator Saratov II - still works without breakdowns, unlike many modern ones (as an example, not an advertisement
        )))))))
  51. The comment was deleted.
  52. +2
    23 October 2014 23: 04
    MAG92b UVVI on Magnetic tape
  53. -3
    24 October 2014 01: 06
    Quote: wanderer_032
    Then find and show the serial and armed with the armament of any country, the interceptor that surpasses the MIG-31 that we have in service with in all performance indicators, at least for those times.

    An obvious Tomcat that entered service in the 70s, along with the AIM-54 Phoenix. It is in service only with Iran, because no one else needs it.
    1. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 15: 18
      I guessed wrong... bully

      and for Iran, this enlarged and crooked “analog” of the MiG-23 and not the MiG-25, then why was it Nunen?
  54. +2
    24 October 2014 09: 41
    Gentlemen, I believe that those in charge in the field of education, in particular for technical university specialties, should add a couple of exam questions on the domestic history of the subjects being studied.
  55. +2
    24 October 2014 11: 25
    All the above achievements are the result of Soviet education, which is completely incomparable with the current one.
  56. +4
    24 October 2014 11: 47
    Quote: sot
    two weeks ago the guy left for Germany - a smart system programmer will support the Bundes online store. And he didn’t leave because of money - there are more salaries in the Russian Federation - because of the current policy of returning to the USSR.

    My brains are full and I left. Moreover, wages are higher in Russia. It's good that he left. But a return to the USSR is needed. To the same GOSTs, organizations of education, science. Entire technical industries have been destroyed. Civil Aviation. One of the most reliable in the world has been turned into trash. Speculative capital cannot do or organize anything except trade and theft.
  57. -3
    24 October 2014 11: 51
    Quote: boris117
    But a return to the USSR is needed.

    Why wait? Suitcase - station - DPRK.
    1. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 15: 21
      Yeah, why not Vietnam or (O_o)Cuba? laughing
      It’s better if you go to Yuzhnaya, look how they are degenerating there from malice and saturation with 4G radiation... you should go there too.
  58. +2
    24 October 2014 13: 22
    When it all began, the USA and the Russian Federation walked almost side by side until the mid-60s, after 64 in the USA, for the development of electronics, the question arose about further financing of production and research, as a result, after consulting, they came to the conclusion that it was necessary to make electronics consumer, and with it the military will already partially invest in paramilitary products based on civilian ones. From this period, the widespread introduction of mainframes began in banks, enterprises and other large organizations. As production increased, production costs fell and further introduction into the general public began. As a result, the electronics industry came off the military budget and became self-sufficient and self-sustaining.

    Looking at the successes of the United States in 65, the Ministry of Electronic Industry was created in the USSR, and at the end of the 60s, the People's Commissar came up with a proposal that if we do not begin widespread implementation in the civilian sector and do not begin deliveries abroad, only the military budget will not be able to compete from the USA. The Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union officially declared to the People's Commissar that this is not a primary task, it is possible to do without computers in many areas, for defense and that there is enough, and the computerization of the entire country was designated until the year 2000, recommending saving on the development of parallel areas by “borrowing” IBM360. Since that time, there has been a slow decline in domestic electronics, since the military budget was not flexible and could not compete with the civilian budget in the United States, parallel directions of development were curtailed, and all engineers were thrown into copying series of American computers and technologies.

    Incl. it all ended sadly...

    And by the way, we have a bad situation not with the electronics industry, but with illiterate managers who categorically do not want to work, but prefer to relax on not entirely honest pocketed bucks...
  59. BFG9000
    +1
    24 October 2014 15: 35
    Quote: IAlex
    The Chinese have a lot of microchips

    Yes, of course there is, who would argue. The question is what exactly is there - stolen American chips. It is hardly possible to find the most powerful supervisors made in China and developed in China.
    Once again, our problem is the dead microelectronics production base. The small production that we have is, at best, on Chinese chips, and for the most part Chinese OEM with our nameplates.
    1. +1
      24 October 2014 17: 03
      Why the stolen ones, bought for example by Sparky and Arma, by the way, the body kit was made by the narrow-eyed themselves. For example, I saw the latest Godson-3 processor live and it even worked, if you compare it with our R1000, which no one has seen except in press releases, and take into account the fact that theirs are made in China in huge quantities, but ours are definitely not in Russia by the piece, and the same purchased documentation for Sparky is used, then the situation is not so funny.
      I can’t figure out why it’s impossible to create a public-private company for the production of Arm Cortex-A chips with all the kit, and start specializing 70% in them, since they are SoCs, you can build a lot of not only military equipment on them, but also civilian ones devices, especially the documentation is sold, a lot of free and modern software and OSes. Moreover, they are simpler in architecture than CISC...
  60. +2
    24 October 2014 18: 45
    All this is good, but I graduated from university this year and now I can’t get a job (engineer
    (for information systems)) managers are needed everywhere (((and work experience is needed everywhere, so where can you get it if they don’t want to take it(((
  61. 0
    24 October 2014 19: 26
    Glory to the entire USSR and its great scientists who raised our country to the highest level in science and SHAME on the hunchbacks who buried our Motherland...Where is the judgment of history over the scum?
  62. 0
    24 October 2014 19: 37
    There was so much going on in the Soviet Union and everything was done so poorly.
  63. 0
    24 October 2014 19: 54
    Quote: Skipper2050
    "We need to create comfortable working and living conditions for our engineers and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere)"

    Comfortable conditions, it’s not all, but first of all: a person should be at the head - a fanatic of his craft and tough as Joseph Vissarionovich; and secondly, it is necessary for young people (students first of all) to set specific tasks in classrooms that have real, embodied goals. Enough term papers, dissertations to do in the table (or rather in the trash). Let each student (especially a graduate student) develop a specific production task. Let them pay (industrialists or the state) for a successful task. stop

    In Soviet times, practical topics for dissertations were given and the best ones were introduced. Then it gradually died out. Could this practice be revived?
  64. 0
    24 October 2014 20: 07
    Yes, you will learn so much, it will be amazing...
  65. 0
    24 October 2014 20: 19
    That's right... But why our idiot authorities decided to copy the American IBM computer and created the EU series - I don't understand! I also want to note that the software, especially the mathematical one, was much better than foreign ones! Even now, the world has not created such perfect programs as those created by Soviet mathematicians!
  66. 0
    24 October 2014 21: 05
    Quote: tolancop
    And here’s the ambush: the computer from the milling machine perfectly controlled the turning machine. And also, when the processor board of the machine-tool computer “flyed,” they fitted me with a processor board from the PC for the duration of the repair. And it worked, the infection, no worse than its own.

    Why shouldn’t she work? The bootloader+whatever you downloaded works.
    There was a really strange imbalance in computing technology in the country.
    Since 78, I had the opportunity to work in setting up these same computers of ours of different series.
    So, if the machine was going to the military, then the adjustment consisted of installation and rarely putting anything in order, but if it was going somewhere for the national economy... then turn off the lights right away. Well, there was a problem with the components too. Integration was making itself felt, mostly by rake. For example, if the TEZ (standard replacement element) does not work and we see microcircuits from the Andijan plant on it, then there is no need to calculate their performance, they need to be replaced without thinking, with microcircuits from the 55th plant and there will be no problems. Or this case:
    Nairi's car with number 13 at the factory did not go through bench adjustment and that's it, even if you die, well... they took another one, worked it out and left. We arrive for adjustment in Nakhodka, and there is number 13, the same one, it’s true to the soul. When PCs appeared, it was just XT, and the E-85 was already running Unix. Still, damn it, we rushed to where the marketing is, now we’re swearing. And by the way, yes, knowledgeable people say that IBM does not have those who are capable of creating a processor. Elbrus has now been embodied and, God willing, will develop into a system on a chip, but in the neighboring building it took up quite a lot of space. Everything is slowly returning to the same circles, only on a different level. And this, personally, makes me happy. If we learn how to make bright wrappers, then you’ll see that there will be a market for us, and not speculators.
    1. 0
      24 October 2014 23: 01
      Quote: MasterCat
      and we see chips from the Andijan plant on it

      What kind of plant is this? This is the first time I’ve heard that there was a processor plant in Andijan, Uzbekistan.
    2. 0
      25 October 2014 01: 39
      So I’m talking about the fact that the E-60 doesn’t matter where it works - on a machine or on a PC.
      It’s just that the comrade above stated that in the USSR some highly specialized computers were used for CNC. Maybe it was, but I was dealing with systems based on the E-60. There were CNC racks of the HNC type (H22, H33). They were full of electronics, but there were no computers in them in the generally accepted sense.
  67. +1
    24 October 2014 21: 45
    Quote: IAlex
    why can’t you create a public-private company for the production of Arm Cortex-A chips with all the kit, and start specializing 70% in them,

    This is how Cortex-m3 with dual bootloader do the same. I tried it, quite well. There is one nuance here. Why is there such a cockroach in most household applications, and not below the 5th acceptance level? there is a sea of ​​cheap clones. If for domestic use, well, I need to steer some kind of drive, a Cortex for 100 rubles is enough, why install a reliable one like a tank? As a result, we specialize in a similar tsos, but cheap, and we will need super reliability, let’s take a kosher one in a gold case. Current, in fact, with copying the same pdp-11 and ibm360. I didn’t have to invest much in the OS. Ours haven’t gone anywhere either, but where they need to be. The fact that the performance of iron has always been lame and lame, well... here we just shrug our shoulders. The same EU tape recorder made by us and the East Germans are two big differences.
    1. 0
      26 October 2014 19: 37
      Cortex-M3 (A4) is a typical cheap controller for 60 rubles, Cortex-A (Arm7) is an almost full-fledged processor for 700 rubles...

      I'm not talking about teapots and other consumer goods, I'm talking about normal performance and flexibility... I wonder if I need to install it on a rocket, or a travel navigator, or, for example, in medical systems, also for 60 rubles?

      I wouldn't want to bet my life on something for 60 rubles with the inscription "Commercial"...
  68. KAM
    0
    24 October 2014 22: 06
    Talking about successes during the Soviet era is no longer relevant. What is better for us now??? Military electronics? Consumer electronics? There was the Ulyanovsk radio tube plant. They also produced military products. During perestroika, the plant was destroyed. With the remains of the plant, they are trying to compete with the leading radio electronics companies in the world, having 30-year-old equipment, and retired workers?! Even in military electronics, we compete only with Africa, and we purchase the entire element base in, at best, South Korea (the world leader in microelectronics), and at worst, in China. That’s why missiles fall. The money allocated for modernization is simply stolen. There may be isolated super developments, but they are isolated.
  69. 0
    24 October 2014 22: 26
    Quote: IZUM
    Well, back and what's next? Again immigrate abroad ?? It is necessary to create comfortable working and living conditions for our and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere), as well as to develop domestic electronics.

    If even at that time, with backward electronics, SUCH computers were made, then what would happen now....
  70. +3
    25 October 2014 00: 52
    The Russian BESM series of supercomputers, developed more than 40 years ago, may indicate the lies of the United States in declaring technological superiority during the Cold War.

    We need to listen to less Americans
  71. 0
    25 October 2014 00: 52
    What do you want? For an outsider to admit that he is behind? Something always bothers him, like a dancer.....
  72. Shur
    0
    25 October 2014 01: 22
    But they could have done a lot more, but didn’t have time. The question is open: can we do it now?
  73. +1
    25 October 2014 09: 59
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Pentkovsky - Pentium ... yes, a coincidence

    And how do you like this coincidence -


    Intel 8080 - An 8-bit microprocessor released by Intel at 1974 year.



    KR580BM80A - 8-bit microprocessor. Produced since 1977 plant "Kvazar". Another super-development of Soviet scientists, "ahead of its time"

    For especially gifted jingoists - yes, the KR580VM80A was a complete copy of the Intel 8080 processor, only


    Just a minute. According to the Americans who studied this crystal,
    the topology was developed independently - that is, it is a functional copy
    (about one or two dozen companies in the world did the same for at least 8085, I don’t know about 8080)
  74. +1
    25 October 2014 13: 38
    Where did we fail? As always in the organization of continuous production. American microcircuits were silicon-based, while those in the USSR were based on gallium oxide. Moreover, gallium oxide is still more preferable to silicon in terms of its characteristics. But when it came to personal computers, the United States was able to organize mass production and captured the entire market. There is simply no place left for gallium oxide technology. Although they say that microchips for defense are still manufactured using gallium technology, which serves as the basis for complete incompatibility with silicon and a guarantee against any outside interference in their operation.
  75. 0
    25 October 2014 13: 59
    Quote: Jurkovs
    Where did we fail? As always in the organization of continuous production. American microcircuits were silicon-based, while those in the USSR were based on gallium oxide. Moreover, gallium oxide is still more preferable to silicon in terms of its characteristics. But when it came to personal computers, the United States was able to organize mass production and captured the entire market. There is simply no place left for gallium oxide technology. Although they say that microchips for defense are still manufactured using gallium technology, which serves as the basis for complete incompatibility with silicon and a guarantee against any outside interference in their operation.

    This is another “here we go ahead of the West.” Well, there were Lodygin’s lamps, Popov’s radio, Polzunov’s steam engine, but how to actually implement all this into everyday use, find an investor, put it into production, and not just have single prototypes - it’s always a complete failure.
  76. +1
    25 October 2014 16: 43
    The USSR was not much inferior to American VT manufacturers, and in some issues it was simply years ahead of them (the first multiprocessor computing complex Elbrus I). It’s just that our population knows little about computers from the times of the USSR, because... the work was carried out mainly and only in the interests of the Moscow Region. The Soviet computer systems M 220/M222 were striking in their reliability; they remained on combat duty for 30-35 years, and the union had already collapsed and there was no maintenance, because the equipment was produced in Minsk. The Elbrus-1 multiprocessor computer complex, released in 1979, included 10 processors and was based on medium integration schemes. In this machine, Soviet scientists were ahead of the Americans by creating a symmetrical multiprocessor system with shared memory. The Elbrus-1 machine provided speed from 1,5 million to 10 million op/s, and Elbrus-2 - more than 100 million op/s. A Russian-language autocode (programming language) L 76 was developed especially for Elbrus. Academician Babayan, under whose leadership the development of the OS for this complex was carried out, then continued to work in the States... The machine was so effective that it was on combat duty in the missile defense early warning system for 20 years and more. Now her descendants continue to keep a combat watch. Of course, the transition to mass cloning of American IBM 360/370 was a huge mistake. This led to stagnation in Soviet science and was essentially a dead end...
  77. 0
    25 October 2014 17: 14
    I would like to see the second part of this article.
    Here the author has shown well that at the initial stage of development of VT everything was quite good.
    But how did the apparent rot begin?
    It is advisable to show this so that it is clear where the “rakes” lie (since our style and control system have not changed much in many areas)
  78. vdasa
    0
    25 October 2014 17: 25
    So who is the brake on domestic technological progress? Stalin or the last ones?
  79. +1
    25 October 2014 17: 55
    At MIR-1 in 1977 I was taught programming. For those years, this machine was suitable not only as a training machine, but also for various engineering tasks. By the way, MIR stands for: an engineering calculation machine.
  80. +1
    25 October 2014 18: 58
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Somehow they brought me plastic stamped watches - they were sold in bulk in China, by weight

    Apparently, you were brought up during the times of “Chinese consumer goods.” And throughout my entire life in the USSR, I constantly came across the products of the domestic radio industry. Both in consumer and military quality. Conclusion: everything worked! And if it broke, they fixed it “on the knee” and everything worked. When Japanese cassette players and similar devices flooded into the country, repairing these barbuhays was a real problem. Although our “coffins” were repaired at one time. It’s like in comparison with UAZ and Hamer. Experts will understand.
  81. +2
    25 October 2014 19: 06
    Quote: MasterCat
    The same EU tape recorder made by us and the East Germans are two big differences.
    Well, you compared!
    The tape drives for the German ES-5025 were made not by anyone but Carl Zeiss, which then belonged to the GDR.
    And they were equipped with magnetic tape not by TASMA, but by BASF. wink
    1. +3
      26 October 2014 13: 19
      They were equipped with the tape that was in stock. TASMA crumbled faster than BASF, but it also worked. Tape drives were never used as the main data carrier; archives were mainly made on tapes. The Aerospace Forces mainly purchased ORWO for serious purposes. There were also Scotch, BASF and TASMA. Very quickly they even abandoned archives on tapes, placing them on large-capacity magnetic disk drives. In general, in the manufacture of EC series 1 and 2, m/n division of labor was used. Video terminals 7920 and control units for them were made in Riga, disks were made in the GDR, CPU, memory and channels were made in Kazan. The Ministry of Defense refused the Yerevan vehicles due to poor reliability...
      1. +2
        27 October 2014 03: 59
        I worked mainly on Minsk machines.
        1022, 1061, 1036, of the Kazan ones there was only 1033. The German 1045 was highly praised, but I didn’t have a chance to work on it.
        And the disks were Bulgarian, then they switched to SAM ones, which, when configured correctly, turned out to be an order of magnitude more reliable.
        It’s very nice to meet a person who writes about what he touched with his own hands.
        I am glad to welcome you, colleague!
  82. wot
    wot
    0
    25 October 2014 21: 08
    Quote: Cosmos1987
    Quote: IZUM
    It is necessary to create comfortable working and living conditions for our and not our engineers (talented people are needed everywhere)

    Here I agree 100%.

    ALAS, THEY WILL GET FAT AND DO NOTHING WILL BE FAT SWIM IN COMFORT
  83. +2
    25 October 2014 21: 18
    Quote: Sailor Zheleznyak
    Of course, the transition to mass cloning of American IBM 360/370 was a huge mistake. This led to stagnation in Soviet science and was essentially a dead end...
    Not certainly in that way.
    IBM's main merit is not that it developed the very successful IBM 360/370 family, but that it quickly and massively began to promote it to the market, mainly the civilian one, making it a de facto standard. And a huge mass of specialists focused on it, starting to develop hardware and application programs for it. And, as he quite rightly noted tkhonov66A computer without software that is in demand on the market is just a bunch of expensive hardware. It was simply impossible to ignore such a radical change in computing technology. And a huge number of our specialists in programming, databases, CAD, corporate systems, etc. without the impressive fleet of ES computers simply would not have appeared. As, indeed, do computer engineers.
    The mistake was that, having become carried away by the new popular technology, they forgot their own developments for years, pushing them to the sidelines of the main field. And it is a great success that projects such as Elbrus managed to survive in this environment. Low bow to the enthusiastic fanatics who preserved it.
    The crushing blow with which the IBM 360/370 crushed the market was not the last.
    When IBM realized that personal computers, which they considered ephemeral toys, were serious and for a long time, and IBM risked simply being late for this “train,” they acted even more brilliantly. And the IBM PC appeared on the market with "open architecture", for which any manufacturer could create both its own hardware and software. And licensing for the IBM PC the MS DOS operating system of the then little-known Microsoft company made it possible to remove almost all competitors from the market. Tandy, Atari, Sinclair, Commodore, Amiga, Apricot, Spectrum - who even remembers these names now? Essentially, it was IBM that enthroned the Wintel platform (Windows + Intel), which still reigns on the market. And for this, IBM had to close its own projects - the PS / 2 computer (desktop mainframe with microchannel architecture) and the OS/2 operating system (“semi-axis”), which promised to become an even more promising platform, but which IBM simply did not have the strength to develop.
    And computer scientists who had experience communicating with ES computers switched to personal computers without any problems, life without which is now difficult to even imagine.
    Objectively speaking, the era of the EU computer, if not rosy, was obviously not useless.
    1. +4
      26 October 2014 15: 53
      Quote: Private
      IBM's main merit lies not in the fact that it developed the very successful IBM 360/370 family, but in the fact that it very quickly and en masse began to promote it to the market, mainly the civilian one, making it a “de facto” standard.

      This so-called “merit” was based mainly on the enormous military-political influence of the United States, primarily in Europe and NATO. IBM, Boeing, Martin-Lockhid, etc. large military-industrial and essentially state corporations. Using dictatorship, the United States killed competitors all over the world. Siemens, for example, having an excellent line of servers and workstations (RM 2000) under pressure from overseas was forced to literally liquidate its industry (Sparte) Siemens-Nixdorf in just 1 year. was a direct competitor to states in the world and Europe, first of all. Ours have sunk to the point of stupidly copying the hardware and software of a geopolitical competitor, although they themselves had excellent developments. I have already given examples. Accordingly, having taken the path of copying hardware, we have already taken the path of copying software. On Elbrus, there are excellent developments of domestic teams that allow our tracking stations to identify real targets, distinguishing them from false ones, with a high degree of reliability. The Elbrus system itself is modular and the elements of the so-called. hot swappable appeared only about 15 years ago on Western technology; they have existed there since the 80s. The fact that the Americans quickly lured the leading architects of this system to SUN is also proof that they should not have stooped to copying IBM's generally not very progressive technology.
      1. +2
        27 October 2014 04: 11
        You write everything correctly. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the Americans shamelessly captured the market, pushing everyone aside with their elbows and quickly destroying their competitors.
        And the whole world began to buy IBMs.
        But we didn’t have such an opportunity, since computers were under embargo (COCOM).
        Most likely, this is why the decision was made to “reinvent the wheel” from scratch.
  84. 0
    25 October 2014 23: 45
    Quote: IZUM
    We need to create comfortable working and living conditions...

    American scientists had comfortable conditions, which ensured that they would lag behind. Working conditions should be creative, free from diligent administration.
  85. +1
    26 October 2014 01: 39
    My neighbor in the communal apartment was an elderly Jewish woman, Faina Evelyevna (she had been deceased for 10 years), who in the 50s and 60s worked as an electrical engineer in one of the enterprises in Leningrad. So she said that they were somehow brought a computer from a downed American plane to study. Her words, I remember, sounded like this: “it did not cause surprise or delight in us. We did not find anything special or superior in comparison with ours.”
    Something like that.
  86. +1
    26 October 2014 09: 24
    I served in the department at the Elbrus-2 MVK in Sofrino
    1. Kassandra
      0
      29 October 2014 15: 40
      What color did your boss have in the hallway closet?
  87. 0
    26 October 2014 20: 01
    Quote: vdasa
    So who is the brake on domestic technological progress? Stalin or the last ones?

    These are historical problems, long before Vissarionich.
  88. 0
    30 October 2014 15: 27
    In Russia it’s always like this - everything for the military is at the level of world standards, while for civilians it’s nothing but obscenities! am
    1. Kassandra
      0
      30 October 2014 18: 15
      BESM-6, which is discussed in the article, and other vehicles were stationed at civilian computer centers.

      Is Pepsi-Cola better than milk and free training and education?
  89. 0
    30 October 2014 18: 09
    Quote: Private
    Quote: MasterCat
    The same EU tape recorder made by us and the East Germans are two big differences.
    Well, you compared!
    The tape drives for the German ES-5025 were made not by anyone but Carl Zeiss, which then belonged to the GDR.
    And they were equipped with magnetic tape not by TASMA, but by BASF. wink

    That's not what I'm talking about. For example, EU-5017.02 made by the Germans and us. They have a laconic design and easy settings. Despite the fact that they were spinning for almost 5056 hours, they had to be tuned once a year. Your own, it’s good if once a month. Those who have seen ES5010 disks and XNUMX tapes will agree with me. How did you manage to make the design like that? It's mind boggling.
  90. 0
    4 November 2022 06: 39
    Who is this article intended for? on ignorant people. The world's first superscalar computer was the CDC 6600 (1964), developed by Seymour Cray. In the USSR, the Elbrus computer was considered the first superscalar computer, which was developed in 1973-1979 at ITMiVT. The main structural difference between Elbrus and the CDC 6600 (except for a completely different instruction system visible to the programmer - a stack type) was that all the nodes in it were pipelined, as in modern superscalar microprocessors. Based on this fact, B. A. Babayan declared the priority of Soviet computers in the construction of superscalar computers, but the next machine after the CDC 6600 from Control Data, the CDC 7600 (English), created in 1969, 4 years before the start of development "Elbrus" had conveyorization of actuators.
    So it’s clear who stole what from whom.