Wheel tank destroyers to appear in Japan

115
With 2016, Japan plans to begin rebuilding the Self-Defense Forces tank park, which was created earlier to repel a Soviet attack from the north. Reports about it Military Parity with reference to Defense News.

Prototype MCV.

According to the publication, the main combat Tanks in Japan they will be replaced by the so-called "maneuver combat vehicle (MCV), which is a wheeled tank destroyer with a 105-mm gun." The Ministry of Defense intends to purchase about 300 of these machines and at the same time reduce the number of MBT in the troops from 740 to 300 units. Write-off of the main tanks is designed for about a decade.

New combat vehicles have a smaller mass (26 t) and high mobility, they can easily be transferred to any island, including the southern ones, which are threatened by China (their transportation is possible with promising Kawasaki C-2 aircraft).

The publication states that the development of the MCV prototype has been going on for several years (from 2008) and its testing will begin in the near future. The first vehicles must go to the troops in 2016. It is planned that 2017 units will be produced by the end of 99, and by the end of 2018, 300 will be produced. In this case, the author notes that "the number of cars produced may change."

It is reported that “MCV must have a power reserve of 400 km, the maximum speed of up to 100 km / h and will be armed with a 105-mm gun.” According to military expert Shinichi Kiyotani, the firepower of the gun "may be redundant in some combat situations, for example, in urban battles." He believes that "in urban environments, an 90 or 76-mm cannon is enough; the 40 or 35-mm automatic cannon may be enough."

In order to save the developers decided to abandon the automatic loader, so the crew will consist of 4-s people. “I believe that this is the wrong concept. MCV is just a cheap tank that will be easily hit from an RPG "- the expert expressed his opinion.
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  1. ISKANDER25
    +6
    14 October 2014 22: 03
    Hello! Yes, in Japan, at least PIPELATS will appear to fight, no where! The ISLAND IS HOWEVER !!!! hi
    1. +5
      14 October 2014 22: 06
      Come on, but the whole Far East is so small that they did not notice it?
      1. jjj
        +26
        14 October 2014 22: 13
        The Japanese, along the way, are changing the military concept. They apparently understand that both Russia and China will crush them quickly enough. So they started saving on the ground forces. Create the appearance of armored
        1. +19
          14 October 2014 22: 16
          I agree! There are things that are contraindicated for the Japanese, the innate craving for savings on everything just kills them!laughing
          “I think this is a wrong concept. MCV is just a cheap tank that will be easily hit from RPGs, ”the expert said.

          And I doubly agree with the verdict of the expert! bully
          1. avg
            +15
            14 October 2014 22: 43
            The Ministry of Defense intends to purchase about 300 of these machines and at the same time reduce the number of MBT in the troops from 740 to 300 units. Write-off of the main tanks is designed for about a decade.

            Here I am pleased with such news!
            During World War II, the Japanese command told their fighters about plywood Russian tanks, and they beat thirty-fours and ISs from all small arms, and were very surprised when, in response, they crushed them like cockroaches. And now they themselves decided to cut the tins.
            1. 0
              15 October 2014 07: 15
              Quote: avg
              And now they themselves decided to cut the tins.

              But, for example, BMP-3 (weight 18,7 tons) - tin or not?

              Right now, of course, many will say BMP is not a tank, such as other tasks, etc., etc.
              But who said that 10 fighters (crew + landing) need less protection than four Japanese?

              Moreover, both our infantry fighting vehicles and Japanese armored vehicles are fighting in similar conditions (urban development)
              1. +2
                15 October 2014 08: 26
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Moreover, both our infantry fighting vehicles and Japanese armored vehicles are fighting in similar conditions (urban development)

                You missed something in the history of Japan. When did Japanese armored vehicles fight in urban areas?
                Russian urban infantry fighting vehicles in urban conditions, without the support of artillery, tanks and infantry can not fight, because their armor is easily penetrated by any heavy machine gun. In any battle, an infantry fighting vehicle is a means of supporting infantry, and not an attack combat vehicle, such as a tank. If you want to burn your BMP - go ahead, step on the BMP in the city and soon a military tribunal awaits you if you survive.
                1. 0
                  15 October 2014 09: 19
                  Quote: Алексей_К
                  If you want to burn your BMP - go ahead, step on the BMP in the city and soon a military tribunal awaits you

                  What is the tribunal for? Read the charters.
                2. 0
                  15 October 2014 18: 23
                  Quote: Алексей_К
                  because their armor is easily penetrated by any heavy machine gun

                  Why such "armor" cars at all? can it be easier and cheaper to ride a UAZ?

              2. 0
                15 October 2014 09: 26
                The BMP-3 has much higher tactical mobility thanks to its tracks. In addition, such a component of weapons as dismounted infantry gives a big "plus" in protecting the vehicle from enemy anti-tank weapons.

                In addition, Japanese tank destroyers and Russian infantry fighting vehicles have fundamentally different principles of combat use. Their "wheeled tanks" should be compared not with infantry fighting vehicles but with "Octopus"
                1. 0
                  15 October 2014 11: 24
                  Quote: Spade
                  ... Their "wheeled tanks" should be compared not with infantry fighting vehicles but with "Octopus"


                  Is it necessary? Octopus is a mobile tracked tank destroyer, and this armored car with a cannon is a light wheeled tank.
          2. Little Lost
            +2
            15 October 2014 03: 34
            Anime however lol
            There is nothing to do in city battles. With their population density and infrastructure remotely inflicting unacceptable damage, like two fingers on asphalt.
          3. 0
            15 October 2014 07: 26
            They are far from our "Terminator"!
            1. 0
              15 October 2014 08: 35
              While there are no exact characteristics, it is difficult to judge who and how far. For example, our Terminator does not even have active protection, only dynamic. A tandem shaped-charge projectile easily penetrates such armor.
              1. 0
                15 October 2014 10: 22
                For example, our Terminator does not even have active protection, only dynamic. A tandem shaped-charge projectile easily penetrates such armor.

                Have you tried it yourself ??
              2. 0
                15 October 2014 10: 22
                For example, our Terminator does not even have active protection, only dynamic. A tandem shaped-charge projectile easily penetrates such armor.

                Have you tried it yourself ??
        2. +2
          14 October 2014 22: 21
          Well, I have a little opposite view on this problem ...
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +10
          14 October 2014 23: 37
          At the same time, neither Russia nor China is clearly planning to "crush" Japan (geographically - "the game is not worth the candle"), unless, of course, she herself "twitches". It is much more convenient (more profitable) to have Japan working hard on the technological fronts in the trading partner mode.
          1. 0
            15 October 2014 08: 40
            You are wrong. China is just dreaming of conquering Japan. Only in this way can this unreasonable aggressor state be stopped in its aggressive plans. China still remembers well how the Japanese atrocities were committed on its territory. Therefore, China is now rapidly expanding its fleet so that hundreds of millions of Chinese can land on the islands.
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. +5
          14 October 2014 23: 48
          Quote: jjj
          Create the appearance of armored

          MCV is just a cheap tank

          or a car - carrier of a tank tower :))))))))))
          1. 0
            15 October 2014 08: 43
            Quote: Rus2012
            or a car - carrier of a tank tower :)))))))))

            A car can never have tan armor. Not a hat for Senka. Either a tank or a combat vehicle.
        7. 0
          15 October 2014 10: 01
          the Chinese have a lot of debt to the yapi, so the Japs have accumulated and are nervous.
      2. +6
        14 October 2014 22: 22
        Quote: IAlex
        PIPELATS will appear to fight, then no where!

        find where ...
        moreover, this wheeled Japanese tank will withstand the Chinese "PLL-09" 8 x 8 with a three-man turret and a 105-mm rifled cannon connected to a computerized control system from NORINCO ...
        1. +5
          14 October 2014 22: 32
          This thing should withstand primarily landing boats.
          1. 0
            15 October 2014 09: 46
            I agree. The main thing for them is not to allow them to seize the bridgehead. Because after that ... hundreds of thousands of Chinese volunteers, mushroom pickers and others will be trampled like cockroaches. That even far from few Japanese people will become sick.
      3. +7
        14 October 2014 22: 29
        In the Far East, this thing will lose to Russian tanks very quickly. Its main advantage is precisely in high maneuverability and transportability, which is necessary precisely in conditions of not too large islands. On large land, such a thing is inferior in efficiency to heavier tanks.
        1. 0
          14 October 2014 22: 36
          In the Far East, the Yapov have a Type 10 tank and an old Type 90 tank, in the total of 800 pieces. We probably have all the junk and even this amount there, not to mention these BMP support with guns ...

          We should have had a weaker Atom, but it went down in history due to sanctions, and NONA was less long-range, but I don’t hear anything about it ...
          1. +11
            14 October 2014 23: 40
            To begin with, in the Far East, the Yapes have nothing - all the tanks on the islands. And the fact that the islands still need to be delivered - and this is a landing under shelling from the coast and the opposition of the Pacific Fleet. Secondly, the T-72 is now in large numbers modernized primarily in the Far East. Thirdly, as the Vostok-2014 exercises showed, reinforced troops can be delivered to designated places very, very quickly.
            1. -5
              15 October 2014 00: 54
              laughing It's funny, but it's just a pity that this is fraud, and not on your part ...
              1. +1
                15 October 2014 01: 04
                Really? Why?
                1. -7
                  15 October 2014 01: 43
                  Because the Yapov already have enough ships to land and support the landing ...

                  Against landing ships and aircraft carriers Shirane, LCAC, Izumo, Hyuga, a total of 6 - aircraft carriers and 6 landing ships, 48 ​​destroyers and frigates and 18 submarines. Our Pacific Fleet consisting of 18 old and commensurate ships cannot do anything at all.

                  If you naively think that they will be soaked with atomic weapons, then this is also naivety, like airplanes. They have a sufficient number of Chusam SAMs, Patrites and URO destroyers.

                  Some 800 tanks outnumber the ground forces, compared to 300, and two times the same for helicopters.

                  In addition to this, the morale of our officers is clearly weak.

                  And most importantly, do not forget that they are members of NATO, if they organize a provocation, they will trample on us from all sides, the army is almost 10 million.

                  They would have already begun our section long ago, if there isn’t the only missile defense system, their smallness is holding back atomic weapons in Europe, and in the Far East, China, which will not let Siberia catch the Yankees ...
                  1. +1
                    15 October 2014 04: 55
                    Japan is not a member of NATO.
                    1. 0
                      15 October 2014 08: 47
                      Quote: Ro-Man
                      Japan is not a member of NATO.
                      - but one of my favorites forgive me ... the USA! hi
                    2. 0
                      15 October 2014 11: 17
                      But the United States is the main "member" of NATO, which has security obligations to Yapami in accordance with the Treaty on Mutual Cooperation and Security Guarantees between the United States and Japan.
                  2. webco
                    +1
                    15 October 2014 06: 28
                    I was in Ussuriysk in a tank division and there are more than a hundred tanks there, and the modernization was in full swing.
                  3. +1
                    15 October 2014 07: 15
                    And where will they land? I won't say anything about the Far East. I was not. And in Siberia, will you find many roads? One track "Baikal", and 10 meters to the side. Tracked vehicles get stuck, so before disembarking, let the roads be built for us, but to meet something, what not to meet, especially a guest not asked, will hiccup for a hundred years.
                    1. 0
                      15 October 2014 11: 19
                      How do you like to start Sakhalin?
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                  4. +2
                    15 October 2014 08: 03
                    What the hell are you talking about? The expert calculated everything and morale dragged on the court. Whose friend will you be from? We will sweep away the islands and will not notice if you have to of course wink
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. 0
                      15 October 2014 11: 21
                      I have business with officers at work, their spirit ends as soon as it comes to the work itself ...
                  5. 0
                    15 October 2014 09: 54
                    1. Japan is not a member of NATO
                    2. If, nevertheless, NATO was attacked from all sides, then be sure that the strategic nuclear forces will be pulled in a square-nested manner for all cowboys. Even in samurai.
                    3. All of their SAMs and Patriots will remain on the islands. In the case of the departure of such an armada in one direction - in ours, both the Chinese and the DPRK will automatically become occupied. And the temptation to gag on the armada of invasion will be for both.
                    You can write another ten points. But these are enough.
                  6. 0
                    15 October 2014 10: 18
                    I agree with you. Cape-petition and urapatriotism are not finished up.
                  7. 0
                    15 October 2014 14: 50
                    And you naively think that they are the whole fleet and all the forces that they have that they have just sent to the Far East, right? If so, then please let them send. China then captured the uninhabited Yapov Islands in a day.

                    Some 800 tanks outnumber the ground forces, compared to 300, and two times the same for helicopters.

                    Bullshit. This is 800 tanks against 300 T-90 maybe. T-72 on Far East over fucking. And knowing the properties of Yapov helicopters and our air defense ... No, they have good turntables - but, let's say, they’re clearly not scared.
                    The only thing they have a real advantage in the Far East is the fleet. But, as I said, do you seriously think that they will send their entire fleet?

                    They would start our section long ago.

                    Five points, man. Funny joke. And Mongolia would have already begun our section long ago - the only horses they do not want to leave alone are unattended.
          2. 0
            15 October 2014 09: 28
            Quote: IAlex
            In the Far East, the Yapov have a Type 10 tank and an old Type 90, in total 800 pieces


            Have you read the article?
      4. +8
        14 October 2014 23: 39
        If we mean our Far East in a compartment with Siberia and the Urals? That Japs in flight.
        Roads, for the most part, as a class, are absent there. And the best pepelats - tracked.
        By the way, this was one of the reasons for sending a certain number of letters to Comrade. Feldmebel, the commander of the Airborne Forces, General Shamanov, in favor of the BMD-4, and not the "vaunted" armored cars (from which only Comrade Krupsky speaks) produced by Iveko (for which Shamanov and Serdyukov became enemies, for the latter could not ... in the pocket on the pasta contract) smile
        1. +1
          15 October 2014 09: 36
          It was not Serdyukov, but Putin who had anything to do with the "contract with pasta", this is the first thing.

          Four brigades, which Shamanov was supposed to provide with equipment, "thanks" "to Comrade Feldmebel's message to the commander of the Airborne Forces" for a certain number of letters, still ride UAZs, and this is by no means good.

          As well as the fact that "thanks" to the hairy paw of Mr. Deripaska in the Russian upper echelons of the RF Armed Forces still does not have the required number of machines protected from explosions. Although they should have appeared already during the Afghan war.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. +2
        15 October 2014 01: 23
        Wow, damn it! No other than the Kuril Islands are going to beat laughing
        1. 0
          15 October 2014 05: 10
          Ha yes! While they are being transferred from one island to another, the Russian Air Force will have time to make a pillow on the seabed! lol
      7. ISKANDER25
        +1
        15 October 2014 02: 10
        Hello! To do this, you still have to overcome the sea!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Denis fj
      +15
      14 October 2014 22: 26
      Interesting? Right-hand drive or not?
      Sorry! In Russia, they can ban! laughing
      1. +2
        14 October 2014 22: 37
        Quote: denis fj
        Sorry! In Russia, they can ban

        yes, the Germans, almost all armored vehicles "right-hand drive ..."
        1. Denis fj
          +1
          14 October 2014 23: 01
          and tanks are also right-hand drive ......... laughing
          1. +3
            14 October 2014 23: 24
            Quote: denis fj
            and tanks are also right-hand drive ..


            and the mech.vod on Leo-2 where it sits ??? not on the starboard side ???
            the joker however lol ...
            learn the mat part ...
            1. +5
              14 October 2014 23: 40
              Okay, the dog is with the samurai, Gubarev seems to be on the mend (God forbid) you look at what he will tell.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +1
                15 October 2014 01: 29
                As a rule, as a result of a concussion around the eyes, a hematoma occurs. So she has it all the time. It seems like a common thing. Coming soon.
                In order not to be unfounded, I post another photo.
              3. +4
                15 October 2014 02: 17
                And where did Gubarev suffer? Mythical skirmish and mythical accident. Neither to you protection, nor to you a plot with a shot or damaged car, nor a photo of nichrome.
            2. Denis fj
              +1
              15 October 2014 00: 44
              space, to be honest, I absolutely do not care where the mech.vod sits. even left even right
              it will burn anyway when a shell or petur enters the tank.
    4. +3
      14 October 2014 23: 52
      Quote: ISKANDER25
      Hello! Yes, in Japan, at least PIPELATS will appear to fight, no where! The ISLAND IS HOWEVER !!!!

      It just seems in comparison with the continent, and so for reference:
      The territory of Japan - 377 thousand square meters. km This is more than, say, the territory of a united Germany, and is almost equivalent to the territory of Italy. The population of Japan (125 million people) is only slightly less than the population of Russia.
      1. Berezin alex
        +5
        15 October 2014 00: 22
        A volley from the Dombarovsky (Yasny) position area and there are no islands. What kind of war is it if Russia and China can simply erase the Japs from the map?
      2. 0
        15 October 2014 09: 59
        The territory of Japan - 377 thousand square meters. km This is more than, say, the territory of a united Germany
        Yeah! That's just Germany all completely plain and a little mountains in the south. And Japan is exactly the opposite: all mountains and a little plains around Tokyo. And they built up houses with such a density that the best mover there is not a goose, but a helicopter propeller.
    5. +2
      15 October 2014 00: 00
      Well, it's like in the World of Tanks, DOS richer with a thought !!! One hit of a tank gun will tear it like a monkey !!! This is not tank roulette on the Internet !!!
      1. +2
        15 October 2014 00: 11
        Samurai said, well, do you want songs? I have them. "Armata" will be equipped with unique heavy-duty armor
        As part of the creation of advanced combat vehicles "Armata" JSC "Research Institute of Steel" has completed the development of the latest ultra-high-strength sheet armor steel.

        Its use will increase the armor properties by more than 15%. At the same time, its characteristics surpass serial domestic steel and world analogues of foreign steel mills.

        The new generation Armata tank, being developed by the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation (UVZ), has unique combat capabilities. The crew will be placed in an armored capsule and isolated from the fighting compartment, which will significantly increase its protection and survivability. The tank will be equipped with satellite navigation and other technical innovations that have no analogues abroad.

        But not only this will distinguish the "Armata" from domestic and foreign combat vehicles.

        On October 10, 2014, within the framework of the Single Day of Acceptance of Military Products at the Ministry of Defense, it was noted that in the future this tank will also be equipped with new unique heavy-duty armor. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov, reports "Military-Industrial Courier". http://www.i-mash.ru/news/nov_otrasl/58156-armatu-osnastjat-unikalnojj-sverkhpro
        chnojj.html
        1. Little Lost
          +1
          15 October 2014 03: 41
          Well, do not talk about Armata, please. Blah blah blah. Let's see in 2015. And then again, Christmas trees, sticks, srach will begin.
          Without evaluation
    6. +9
      15 October 2014 00: 14
      It was already. High-speed tanks on wheels. It reminds the strategy of the USSR before the Great Patriotic War - we will fight on good roads in foreign territory.
      Only now the war put everything in its place.
      1. +2
        15 October 2014 00: 35
        Quote: Stock Officer
        It was already. High-speed tanks on wheels. It reminds the strategy of the USSR before the Great Patriotic War - we will fight on good roads in foreign territory.
        Only now the war put everything in its place.

        You better read for what reasons wheeled-tracked tanks were made, and not just the semi-delusional versions of Mr. Rezun. I will say it again: with proper use, BT-eshs could very much upset the Germans, as they upset the Japanese at the end of the war. Apparently from there ears grow.
    7. 0
      15 October 2014 05: 24
      Japan, as before, continues to rattle with weapons, although the whole world has long known that pressing a button will erase the samurai as a species
    8. 0
      15 October 2014 09: 38
      You tell Singapore. Which MBT per unit surface in more than ten Japan combined.
      wassat
  2. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 03
    Well, for them the norms ... the roads spare. Do they even have tracked vehicles ?? who knows?? Is Mitsubishi releasing ??
    1. +6
      14 October 2014 22: 10
      They all have, for example, types 10, 99, 87, 96, 89, they are all tracked. Yapov have almost all weapons, incl. everything is not so joyful for us ...
      1. +2
        14 October 2014 22: 28
        For example, the Japanese "ten"
        1. MAGNIT
          +2
          14 October 2014 23: 00
          Gomno. For asphalt only.
        2. +4
          15 October 2014 00: 25
          And to participate in tank biathlon on this machine?
          It would be nice to invite Japanese partners.
          1. 0
            15 October 2014 08: 46
            Quote: Ivan Tarasov
            And to participate in tank biathlon on this machine?
            It would be nice to invite Japanese partners.

            Yes, it would not be bad. Especially firing compare, and the tank runs briskly.
        3. -1
          15 October 2014 09: 36
          Our tank crews are not doing that yet! So complete crap! request
      2. +1
        15 October 2014 00: 05
        Is that all right? and the fleet? And the landing gear? And is there enough aviation to suppress coastal defense? And powerful air defense to cover their troops to the entire depth of defense? Do not carry nonsense. Samurai are not warriors in one person (without the help of Amer invaders) for another 7-10 years.
        1. +2
          15 October 2014 00: 42
          There is a fleet, and means of landing and powerful air defense. True, it’s hard to say about aviation, it is mainly focused on air superiority. So the Japanese are a completely self-sufficient military power, even when it comes to the war with China.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +1
            15 October 2014 02: 01
            Quote: Saburo

            Saburo


            Today, 00: 42

            ↑ ↓ New


            There is a fleet, and means of landing and powerful air defense. True, it’s hard to say about aviation, it is mainly focused on air superiority. So the Japanese are a completely self-sufficient military power, even when it comes to the war with China.

            It is a completely self-sufficient state ... whose inhabitants are ready for catastrophe every day. Seismic zone of residence of this nation. And there is another natural phenomenon - tsunami. Which can eliminate both the coastal infrastructure and the ships of the Japanese militarists. And the "self-sufficient power" will only have to ride wheeled tanks and shoot its Japanese marauders. A tsunami can be directional. Very powerful ...


            Reply
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  3. +2
    14 October 2014 22: 03
    Cool thing will be if it is on board the KAZ and BIUS, apparently they take in quantity and weight for their new landing ships ...
  4. +5
    14 October 2014 22: 05
    gun firepower "may be excessive in some combat situations, for example, in urban battles."

    Yeah. Let's say the tracks are not needed, the wheels are faster and the asphalt does not deteriorate. But with the caliber of the guns, they seem to bend. Excess caliber does not prevent the T-72 from fighting in Syria. And let the Japanese save and the result will be a tin can with bulletproof protection.
    1. +2
      14 October 2014 22: 11
      I think you can easily put other combat modules on this platform. well, and then the excess gauge really does not interfere if competent tactics for street fighting ...
      1. 0
        15 October 2014 08: 53
        Quote: Mayer1980
        I think you can easily put other combat modules on this platform

        It will be cheaper and the machine will be more efficiently used. Different modules to perform various tasks.
    2. +2
      14 October 2014 22: 28
      our bank

      The main performance characteristics of the self-propelled anti-tank gun 2S25 "Sprut-SD"
      Crew, people. 3
      Reservation Bulletproof
      Combat weight, t 18
      length / with gun 7,07 / 9,771
      width 3,152
      height / with wind sensor 2,72 / 2,98
      Maximum speed km / h:
      on the highway to 70
      on the ground up to 49
      afloat up to 10
      Power reserve, km 500
      Aiming range, m 4000

      http://pro-tank.ru/blog/1119-new-sau-will-replace-anti-tank-gun-sprut
    3. 0
      15 October 2014 08: 49
      Quote: Hedgehog
      Let's say caterpillars are not needed,

      Everything is needed, and tracks and wheels - depending on the situation and the tasks performed.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 10
    If you stick a tank tower on an APC, will it become a tank after that? I doubt it.
    1. +2
      14 October 2014 22: 33
      In vain. Everything or almost everything is collected here. Read -

      http://alternathistory.org.ua/taxonomy/btr-s-tankovoi-pushkoi
      1. 0
        15 October 2014 09: 32
        Quote: Ptah
        http://alternathistory.org.ua/taxonomy/btr-s-tankovoi-pushkoi

        Thanks, interesting stuff!
    2. 0
      15 October 2014 08: 55
      Quote: skylare
      If you stick a tank tower on an APC, will it become a tank after that? I doubt it.

      Why would he be a tank? That can become a tank destroyer.
  7. +7
    14 October 2014 22: 11
    Even somehow dumb, the threat of a Russian attack from the north sounds. Something I have never heard of plans to capture Japan, they are crammed like cockroaches in a bank, what to look for there Russia, there is enough land already, there’s a NEW COPPER DEPOSIT, Cadmium and GOLD, three in one, on the Far East opened, yes also open type. Next year, bidding for production. Probably the Japanese and Amers, there will not be close.
  8. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 11
    One thing is not clear to me. How could the Japanese, the beacon of technology, overpower the automatic loader? Even the northern barbarians succeeded.
    1. +1
      14 October 2014 22: 15
      They are in a hurry to share the skins of the bear, and to control the territories a lot of equipment is needed, albeit not progressive, because in the Far East we have almost nothing ...
      1. +5
        14 October 2014 22: 27
        why are you still a major?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      14 October 2014 22: 17
      military technology they have mostly full guano laughing
      1. 0
        15 October 2014 09: 08
        Quote: DrMadfisher
        military technology they have mostly full guano

        And where are we, such a cool expert on Japanese military technology?
    4. 0
      15 October 2014 00: 48
      By the way, the Japanese are one of the few, besides us, who use automatic loaders in their tanks. But MCV is primarily a cheaper alternative to the tank, which can be produced in large quantities. So the automatic loader there is just superfluous.
    5. 0
      15 October 2014 09: 05
      Quote: Basarev
      How could the Japanese, the beacon of technology, overpower the automatic loader?

      Or maybe they think that he is simply not needed there. That is their view of this matter.
  9. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 13
    MTSV is just a cheap tank that will be easily hit from RPGs
    Yes, no matter how from the CPV or even the good old DShK. Wheels - they won’t pull much armor on themselves. A 105mm is unlikely to take a modern tank, at least in the forehead.
  10. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 14
    kamikaze come back again
    "Terminator" grabs this miracle in 6 seconds
  11. +9
    14 October 2014 22: 15
    Still, the Japanese dream of whipping in battle with the Chinese, because where so many tanks to collect on such fighters? It seems to me that the branch is deadlock, because tank building does not stand still and over time not every weapon can cope with KAZ. More promising complexes like " Chrysanthemum-S ", you can choose any chassis
    1. +2
      14 October 2014 22: 17
      Question in topic, anti-tank systems were developed long ago in the USSR, and why they did not begin to be purchased in huge quantities, but continued to use barrel tanks?
      1. wanderer_032
        +3
        15 October 2014 00: 23
        Quote: IAlex
        Question in topic, anti-tank systems were developed long ago in the USSR, and why they did not begin to be purchased in huge quantities, but continued to use barrel tanks?


        Because it is a means of fighting tanks, which is given to strengthen anti-tank defense in separate (separate) sections of the database zone or as a means of covering from an attack on the flanks and from the rear in the offensive, and not the main armament.
        Therefore, both the Shturm-S ATGM and the Chrysanthemum ATGM are made mobile so that they can be transferred to the most dangerous areas within a short time.
        Motorized riflemen have RPGs and ATGMs in various different versions, to repel the attacks of mechanized enemy formations.
    2. +4
      14 October 2014 22: 34
      Quote: APASUS
      Nevertheless, the Japanese dream of whipping in battle with the Chinese, because where so many tanks to collect on such fighters


      With whipping with China, now no one dreams of suicide, but it seems we will have to how sad it sounds, and in the predictions this is a war between Russia and China.



      1. +4
        14 October 2014 23: 29
        Quote: Athenogen
        Yes, and in predictions it is

        laughing The strongest argument! But who is more accurate: Nostradamus, Wang or Globa? laughing
        1. 0
          15 October 2014 00: 13
          Quote: Vasek
          The strongest argument! But who is more accurate: Nostradamus, Wang or Globa?



          http://isi-2012w.blogspot.ru/2012/06/blog-post_2344.html
          1. +2
            15 October 2014 00: 19
            In vain offended, Athenogen!
            Simple "Extrasensory perception in geopolitical modeling and planning" - my favorite book since childhood! laughing
            1. 0
              15 October 2014 00: 40
              Quote: Vasek
              In vain offended, Athenogen!


              Yes, I’m not offended, it’s just different, all people believe, some believe in predictions, others do not. There was such an Italian guy in history his name was Giordano Bruno, and so he believed that the earth was round, though he had finished poorly, burned him, no one wanted to believe in his version.

              Quote: Vasek
              Simply "Extrasensory perception in geopolitical modeling and planning" is my favorite book since childhood!



              And psychics have fears about the war.



      2. +3
        15 October 2014 00: 26
        the question is whether this prediction is a warning or programming of the future, all the more it would be beneficial for overseas partners to collide the Russians and the Chinese. They succeeded against the Reich in the USSR and hope they won’t attack the same rake. no less will push both countries to conflict
    3. +4
      14 October 2014 22: 34
      Quote: APASUS
      cope with KAZ. More promising systems like the Chrysanthemum-S, you can choose any chassis

      with the active use of RZB, Chrysanthemum may have problems with aiming ...
      and barrel artillery, maybe it’s manually aimed ...

      and wheeled BM, has greater mobility, motor resources and speed, compared with GS ...
      war in Ruin, allows you to review some tactics .. especially the use of MBT ...
      if the militia had wheeled tanks, there were many times more T-64s wrecked ...

      1. +1
        14 October 2014 22: 39
        if the militia had wheeled tanks, there were many times more T-64s wrecked ...

        And if the t-90BM, then 10 times)
        1. +2
          14 October 2014 23: 05
          Quote: Marssik
          And if the t-90BM, then 10 times)


          it is expensive to transfer tracked tanks from one sector of the front to another, and a motor resource with a goose, quickly "sit down" ...
          in a frontal tank attack, now no one will go, but to have a fast anti-tank BM, it is simply necessary ... 105 L-7 gun, it’s quite suitable ...
          good SOU, and any tank, not in the forehead so the tower and sides, any dill tank, will be broken, with a 100% guarantee (((but this is just a dream))))
          prototypes of Soviet wheeled tanks: "Zhalom-B" and "Zhalom-S" (BTR-70 with 85mm and 125mm cannon))))
          sorry topic, did not get its development ... but then there were other times and were preparing for a nuclear conflict ...
        2. +1
          14 October 2014 23: 33
          Marseilles
          and the answer to your question ... on yesterday’s topic-armored cars ...

          all these pepelats will be passable of any serial car (all-terrain vehicle) ... because initially, the prototypes were all-terrain vehicles, according to Russian classification: prototype Tr3 "cutlets"are built to participate in cross-country competitions !!!
          info s: http: //topdownloads.ru/watch/vIFTmsrPq0s.tm
          then simply, the tubular frame was sheathed with armor plates ...

          1. +2
            14 October 2014 23: 45
            Quote: cosmos111
            sorry topic, did not receive its development ...
            Under Serdyukov, it seems they bought a couple of Italians from the Italians to test the qualities. And it seems that winter travel did not satisfy (or I don’t remember the equipment failure from our frosts).
            1. +3
              14 October 2014 23: 54
              Quote: Thunderbolt
              . And it seems that winter did not satisfy the expedition (or I don’t remember the failure of the equipment from our frosts).

              infa was: Centaurs returned to pasta ...

              Italians built on TTX for themselves and for operation in Russia, of course they are not designed ...
              but this does not say that we don’t need a similar technique ...
              mine, it’s necessary to develop ...
      2. 0
        15 October 2014 18: 39
        Quote: cosmos111
        Quote: APASUS
        cope with KAZ. More promising systems like the Chrysanthemum-S, you can choose any chassis

        with the active use of RZB, Chrysanthemum may have problems with aiming ...
        and barrel artillery, maybe it’s manually aimed ...

        and wheeled BM, has greater mobility, motor resources and speed, compared with GS ...
        war in Ruin, allows you to review some tactics .. especially the use of MBT ...
        if the militia had wheeled tanks, there were many times more T-64s wrecked ...

        Everything mixed up in your comment, unless EW tools can work on the MCV sighting system and create interference with aiming ??? That is, they are on an equal footing with Chrysanthemum!
        MCV equipment designed for the first shot, otherwise the chances of a tank with a more powerful weapon are greater.
        And at the expense of Ukraine - it’s not entirely logical to compare the quality of equipment that they don’t have, then come and talk ........
    4. +2
      15 October 2014 00: 33
      Quote: APASUS
      Still, the Japanese dream of whipping in battle with the Chinese, because where so many tanks to collect on such fighters? It seems to me that the branch is deadlock, because tank building does not stand still and over time not every weapon can cope with KAZ. More promising complexes like " Chrysanthemum-S ", you can choose any chassis

      Well, you compared! Chrysanthemum (I admit I'm a big fan of it), the radar and the type of missiles are so technologically advanced that this technique can only be of special use. One! I will be glad if they are everywhere and in large quantities, but it is unlikely it is possible - very expensive .As far as I know, such a radar (the millimeter range sharpened against ground vehicles), except for Chrysanthemum, is used only in Apache and Ka-52 helicopters (I do not claim, I say what I know, because I still can not find where else. ) So the Chrysanthemum will not arrive soon, and in single copies. And there will be hundreds of wheeled guns against it. Here technology is needed massive, inexpensive and maximally effective. Atom, Bakhcha .. And still, with our pace of production - it's fantastic .. It turns out that you need to choose from what is available in parts. We will be optimistic - what is already being introduced. And these are armored personnel carriers and BMDs. Everything that we can counter in a conflict in the Far East in a couple of years.
      I’m not escalating - I appreciate what is now. Let's hope that the Terminators (although I do not share a common enthusiasm for them, as well as for the Shells) will catch up. They will, in principle, compete.
  12. +1
    14 October 2014 22: 21
    Quote: Basarev
    How could the Japanese, the beacon of technology, overpower the automatic loader?

    They did not consider it necessary.
    Well, the decision was right or wrong - only real actions can be shown (it would be better not to).
  13. +11
    14 October 2014 22: 24
    If the Japanese believe that Type-90 and Type-10 tanks with a standard 120 mm cannon for the west are redundant, apparently they have reason to think so. For some reason, it is customary for us to taunt Japan, if you look at the globe, it’s kind of small, but we have what kind of country is healthy. One hundred years ago they already made fun of it, by the way. In fact, the population of Japan is about the same as in Russia, therefore the mob reserves are about the same, the morale of the troops is traditionally high. The level of economic and industrial development of Japan is much higher than that of Russia. Japan has a powerful, well-armed army with which it was seriously reckoned even under the USSR and a very powerful fleet. Thanks to this fleet, Russia will not even be able to land on the islands. The only drawback is the lack of strategic nuclear weapons, but this is a kind of drawback in itself. Despite the fact that there are own delivery vehicles, there is own nuclear energy, to get hold of special warheads is a matter of desire and time. And Japan does not have a goal to defeat Russia alone. Everything is more modest among them - the occupation of smokers, Sakhalin, and Primorye, which means they will be taken by more serious players.
    1. +1
      14 October 2014 22: 34
      Quote: chunga-changa
      and a very powerful fleet.



      More about a very powerful fleet is possible?
      1. +8
        14 October 2014 22: 41
        Destroyers URO-8, destroyers 29 + 3 training, frigates-6, PL-16 + 2 training. Helicopter carriers 2 + 2. The Japanese fleet surpasses the entire Russian fleet, except for the nuclear submarines.
        1. -4
          14 October 2014 22: 47
          Well, the quantity is not always the key to success ...
          1. +2
            14 October 2014 22: 53
            Rather, this applies to the Russian Federation, because almost all the ships were built during the USSR, and for a long time did not pass normal maintenance ...
          2. +2
            15 October 2014 02: 20
            Quote: KrSk
            Well, the quantity is not always the key to success ...

            Sorry, minus - I'm. Since the question of the fleet - the number of fleets in Japan (a potential adversary who needs to fight only on two sides in a certain water area), or ours (who will have to fight in large spaces and against all) cannot be commensurate. For us, quantity has always been very important. Even to the detriment of quality. Try to calculate the difference in the economic costs of Russia during all wars and other countries.
            1. +1
              15 October 2014 13: 14
              minus is justified for what apologize? fine
    2. +3
      14 October 2014 22: 46
      Japan's problem is the lack of raw materials and nuclear weapons.
      The crowded population of Japan makes it vulnerable to the use of weapons of mass destruction.
      1. +2
        14 October 2014 22: 54
        Do not have illusions they have enriched material and rocket technology ...
        1. +1
          14 October 2014 23: 06
          But they will not have time ...
          1. +1
            14 October 2014 23: 20
            Hehe, you apparently have little knowledge of national traditions in Japanese military affairs, but they are built on the basis of Iaido and Kendo as symbols of national tradition, by the way Yapi demonstrated this in 1894, 1904, 1937, 1941 ...
            1. +1
              15 October 2014 00: 08
              Answer the simple question, where are more likely to kill cockroaches if they are in the bank or throughout the room?
              1. 0
                15 October 2014 00: 51
                And let's rephrase the question a little, can you kill cockroaches if cockroaches the size of you are extremely far to go?
          2. +1
            15 October 2014 00: 57
            But they will not have time ...


            There is such a term as nuclear latency, nuclear latency. It is used in relation to countries that have a sufficient scientific base and developed nuclear industry. This means that such a country can create an atomic bomb very quickly at any time. This term, in fact, was invented specifically for Japan.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  14. +3
    14 October 2014 22: 26
    I am silent and read specialists .. (I always liked these disputes on such topics at VO ..) hi
  15. INF
    0
    14 October 2014 22: 29
    This is saving ... well, if so, the counter proposal for saving dough is to put the engine with a small resource (it doesn’t need to run for a long time), do not load-bearing parts out of cheap plastic, put the soldiers there naked (maximum coward) and rivets. Saving! Do not give a lot of shells. If the crew at least! one tank fails - reward posthumously! As an option, bury the soldiers before the battle in the ground and give a grenade or a mine, and even bury after death, so to speak, the need will disappear.
  16. Denis fj
    +3
    14 October 2014 22: 29
    here you can compare.

    clickable.
    1. +1
      15 October 2014 00: 13
      Quote: denis fj
      here you can compare.

      all of them were built, according to approximately the same type of performance characteristics, their main task is the fight against tank dangerous targets ...
      this, only then they began to apply, as against rebels, of all stripes ...

      BM "VEXTRA" 8 x 8 with 105 mm cannon .... speed on heavy soils, sandy roads over 50 km / h, maximum speed 120 km per hour ....
  17. +2
    14 October 2014 22: 35
    I always considered the Japanese to be smart and practical people, not amenable to momentary emotions. And following the logic, it is necessary to raise the country after such disasters, but here it is! Guys, change your mind and shudder! The economy must be economical.
  18. +6
    14 October 2014 22: 50
    What did you attack the Japs !? Always when creating any type of weapon, many factors influence. If at a certain point in history, the minds of the state believe that with the modern development of roads it is economically more profitable to have a wheeled version of the tank, then industry provides a model for these minds.
    Why not. As part of the concept of national defense, the Japanese believe that the 105-mm cannon is powerful enough to fight tanks, that the wheeled mover is much more efficient, that knowing your own area will contribute to repelling the attack. And in a more aggressive version of the strategy, such machines are more transportable. BUT the Japanese think so! Therefore, we will not stop the Japanese from spending their money as they see fit. After all, they proceed from the capabilities of their economy.
    Quite a sober approach. Another thing is that we are not going to attack them in any way. Therefore, the justification for motivation in these machines could have been more modest. then the new cans look against the background of our cars, like some "Ha-Go" of the Second World War against the background of the T-34. smile
    1. 0
      15 October 2014 07: 24
      That's right, what is the difference between a wheel or a track when tank destroyers fly from above. smile
  19. +2
    14 October 2014 22: 51
    Quote: Basarev
    One thing is not clear to me. How could the Japanese, the beacon of technology, overpower the automatic loader? Even the northern barbarians succeeded.

    It seems to me that the Japanese are cunning, stop
  20. MAGNIT
    0
    14 October 2014 22: 58
    Huh ... ya! Only drive on the asphalt on it!
    Quote: enot73
    For example, the Japanese "ten"
  21. +1
    14 October 2014 23: 02
    Off topic.
    My suggestions:
    1. From now on, when naming the names of the leaders of the junta, make the prefix in the form "a person posing as ... (president, commander, deputy, general, etc.)", let them get used to that they illegally came to power.
    2. Mistral to use as a ferry to the Crimea.
  22. Mol
    Mol
    +1
    14 October 2014 23: 13
    Let the Japanese do what they want. On my own, I’ll add - let’s still see the wingless wheeled plane! The speed will be freaky. It's hard to get out of an RPG! And in Formula 1 you can speak. laughing
  23. +3
    14 October 2014 23: 22
    If we ate everyone, then for Japan with its territory only RPGs will help
  24. +3
    14 October 2014 23: 58
    They used to fight, but ...
  25. +3
    15 October 2014 00: 02
    Good car. For a country with a network of beautiful roads, this is it. The SLA is clearly at a high level, Japan. If anything, they will use it from ambushes and prepared positions, they are not fools to send them in attacks on tanks.
  26. 0
    15 October 2014 01: 06
    Japanese do not know about secret weapons, developed in the future as far back as CCCP !!
    A board with nails is called! And how the wheels his cloak-tent for viewing devices and Molotov cocktails in the cracks hissed !!! Good Japan-baked Japan!
  27. wanderer_032
    +4
    15 October 2014 01: 07
    In the pursuit of mobility, such a quality as security is lost.
    Now, if you objectively try to assess how rational it is to use wheeled BMs with large-caliber artillery weapons, then we can conclude that wheeled BMs are not very suitable for this.
    Let me explain.
    1. The tower / module with such an instrument mounted on a wheeled chassis has such a disadvantage as large dimensions height / length / width.
    2.This pulls everything else. As an increase in the total mass, therefore, a more powerful power plant must be installed. Due to the increase in BM height, the center of gravity rises. This immediately affects the cross-country terrain and overcoming such BM various obstacles.
    After all, if you do not want to increase the cost of production, you are designing a car based on the use of components and assemblies already available in the manufacture of automotive equipment. Therefore, the dimensions of such a machine will be forced to grow, especially the height.
    If you design a machine for specialized units and assemblies, then it will turn out to be too complicated and expensive to manufacture. And in the event of war, making up for the loss of such equipment will be very problematic.
    3. The security of vehicles of this type is usually insufficient for the carrier of such powerful weapons; on the battlefield, such a machine is a priority goal for many.
    In addition, such a machine usually can’t fire on the move, and firing from the side imposes restrictions on the crew that the machine should be located on a flat and solid surface, otherwise there is a risk of the vehicle tipping over on the side when firing from a gun from the side. This is due to the fact that the suspension on wheeled vehicles is softer, with a long stroke of the working elements, and their bearing area is less than that of tracked vehicles. In addition, do not forget about the high center of gravity if you design a wheeled tank on commercially available components and assemblies of course. And if not, then I repeat once again, serial production and further operation of such equipment will fly into big money. Because for serial production it will be necessary to establish a separate production of components and assemblies for a wheeled chassis, this will mainly concern the transmission and chassis components.
    There are of course ways to make the wheeled car stand stiff when firing from a gun of this caliber, but again, this is a complication of the design and everything else associated with it ...
    So buy the Sprut-SD SPG from us gentlemen. wassat



    1. wanderer_032
      +2
      15 October 2014 01: 40
      And in addition, the new Japanese wheeled tank (MCV) on the go:

      1. wanderer_032
        +2
        15 October 2014 02: 09
        The machine itself is interesting of course, many of the elements in its design are interesting.
        A 105 mm gun with an original muzzle brake, which reduces the total recoil momentum and recoil length.
        The wheel chassis itself. It seems that the engineers went the second way, developing a specialized chassis with original components and assemblies of the transmission and chassis.
        This suggests that the words about "cheap wheeled tank" fly off at once.
        Machine protection for lightly armored vehicles is thought out and made at a good level, surveillance equipment and LMS, too.
        In short, a lot of money was swelled into this car only at the stage of R&D, production of experimental samples and testing, and putting it on serial production will require several times more.

        The publication states that the development of the MCV prototype has been ongoing for several years (since 2008) and will begin testing it shortly. The first vehicles should enter the troops in 2016. It is planned that 2017 units will be produced before the end of 99, and 2018 by the end of 300. The author notes that “the number of manufactured vehicles may change.” (Quote)

        Total: 8 years for the design and manufacture of prototypes (pre-production samples), and the order is only 400 (maybe a little) units. Was it worth it so much time and cp-to spend?
        Maybe it is for financial reasons that the project is stalled ...

        “The number of cars produced may change.” (Quote)

        Which way only, after all, now, from the country's budget, the company-developer and manufacturer must not only reimburse the invested costs, but also have a profit from this business. So what will this machine now cost like a spaceship, for sure.
        1. wanderer_032
          0
          15 October 2014 02: 18
          What is known about the developer, according to aunt Wiki:

          The Technical Design Institute (Japanese я 研究 本部 Gijutsu Kenkyu: Hombu ?, English Technical Research and Development Institute, abbr. TRDI) is the only [1] research institute of the Ministry of Defense of Japan. Engaged in basic research and development of prototypes of various weapons systems for the Japanese Self-Defense Forces; The development of prototype weapons developed at TRDI is usually carried out by private companies ...

          TRDI employs 1159 employees, three quarters of them are civilians [3]. The institute’s annual budget is 183 billion yen (3,8% of the country's defense budget line) [4]. The vast majority of the TRDI budget is not spent on its own employees, but on defense research and development of other organizations, mainly large Japanese corporations. At the same time, companies receiving money from TRDI also invest in significant R&D in their own funds; there is an expectation that the development of a new model of weapons will lead to a highly paid state order [5] ...

          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Технический_проектно-конструкторский_институт
  28. Viktor Kudinov
    +1
    15 October 2014 01: 18
    feel Do not think that the Japanese have come up with a "tin can" that will be easy to deal with. The question is in what combination this technique will be used on the battlefield. And the fact that you have saved on something does not mean that the equipment will be of poor quality. And, as an adversary, the Japanese self-defense forces can successfully counter both the Russian and Chinese armies.
  29. 0
    15 October 2014 01: 22
    ..the n-s on the Abrams were preparing for the deserts with the sea horizon .. the Japons on the move were going to fight on the highways .. and we will beat them with "grenades"!
  30. -1
    15 October 2014 01: 50
    As soon as the US leaves (even runs away) in itself (in 10-15 years), there will be many holidays. But the Japanese - just kirdyk. Neither the Chinese nor the Koreans will miss their chance. The Kuomintang from Formosa will also be allowed to participate, and all the other southerners will not sit too if they do not have time to overload.
  31. +1
    15 October 2014 02: 42
    Horseradish is complete, they will burn like matches, they have no chance against tanks, and with such calibers, if they lie they will be able to cause special harm.
  32. 0
    15 October 2014 03: 04
    Whatever the child entertains, there is no chance against the T-90. Yes, and fuck us Japan ... Let them fear China. They know better from whom to defend, obviously not from Russia.
  33. 0
    15 October 2014 04: 16
    Cut the budget, with whom you will lead from that and will be typed
  34. Timofey
    +3
    15 October 2014 04: 38
    Russia has better !!!
  35. 0
    15 October 2014 04: 51
    Quote: jjj
    The Japanese, along the way, are changing the military concept. They apparently understand that both Russia and China will crush them quickly enough. So they started saving on the ground forces. Create the appearance of armored

    I assume that the rhetoric is temporary.
    300 of these armored cars will be built and they will sing about the need to build new real tanks.
    The Japanese, however ...
  36. -1
    15 October 2014 05: 48
    Something the samurai completely brandy, under the guise of self-defense, arm themselves, but the tanks are the means of attack and only then the self-defense, although it doesn’t care where they drown, and who will release the samurai from their islands to the mainland, China, and the Yankees they will be drowned in the sea-okane ... a couple of deep vigorous bombs are enough to cause a tsunami off the Japanese coast and will wash away all their defenses completely ...
  37. Everest2014
    +2
    15 October 2014 05: 50
    Hee hee ha ha Do not underestimate anyone. The Japanese are far from fools.
  38. 0
    15 October 2014 06: 31
    they said that even a 35 mm car would be enough. guns for fighting in urban conditions, maybe they’re going to hurt people in their cities.
  39. 0
    15 October 2014 07: 23
    Apart from Godzila, Japanese "independence" is not threatened by anyone
  40. 0
    15 October 2014 07: 51
    [quote = wanderer_032] In the pursuit of mobility, such a quality as security is lost.
    Now, if you objectively try to assess how rational it is to use wheeled BMs with large-caliber artillery weapons, then we can conclude that wheeled BMs are not very suitable for this.

    I completely agree, in my opinion, if a person says that an infantry fighting vehicle with a tank gun is a tank destroyer, he is. Such a technique has a place to be, but they fulfill only part of the task of tanks, and the fight against tanks is not their hobby. The whole world thinks how to shove 140-150 mm already on the tack, and they have 105 enough, one hit even 57 will be critical for such a machine.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. Aydar
    +1
    15 October 2014 07: 54
    Quote: Vasek
    Quote: Basarev
    How could the Japanese, the beacon of technology, overpower the automatic loader?

    They did not consider it necessary.
    Well, the decision was right or wrong - only real actions can be shown (it would be better not to).

    On the Japanese main battle tank are both automatic loader and variable clearance. If the Japanese did not begin to install AZ on a wheeled tank, then this is most likely caused by objective necessity and rationality, for the following reasons:
    1. AZ significantly complicates the design of the wheeled tank, which makes it costly and difficult to airborne (for which it was created), increases fuel consumption.
    2. The caliber of the gun 105 mm and the relatively small weight of the unitary projectile allows the loader to charge the gun normally, without much overwork, in addition, the relatively small weight of the projectile in comparison with 120 mm makes it possible to develop a higher rate of fire compared to the tank 120 mm. gun with AZ.
    3. The wheeled tank was not developed as a replacement for MBT, but as its addition in "crisis situations" therefore it is probably focused on a crew with little training, who was shown how to properly throw a projectile into a tray, use a ballistic computer and a rangefinder, you do not need to learn how as there probably is a steering wheel and all drives like a truck.
  43. Aydar
    +2
    15 October 2014 08: 23
    Quote: Andrew L.
    Apart from Godzila, Japanese "independence" is not threatened by anyone

    "independence" in Japanese means military aggression. Japanese land is poor in resources, it is difficult to grow food for a growing population, so Japan is doomed to a war of conquest and technological growth - this is the key to its survival. Japanese territory itself is unlikely to be needed by anyone, and "independent" Japanese, if cut off from external resources, decrease in number by millions, in the shortest possible period, the cities will be empty, and Japan itself will return to the level of approximately the Middle Ages, with approximately the same number population, since at that time, without technology, there was an optimal balance between the ability of the islands to feed the population and its density (in medieval Japan, even the salary was paid not in money, but in rice, or rather by its weight expression, kokku). Therefore, in essence, "Japan's independence" is supported by two pillars -1. technology development and trade as a business. 2. military seizure of resources for their own survival.
    Given that the crisis in the United States is gaining momentum, and Japan is strongly focused on the American economy, we can say that the American crisis will come back to haunt Japan very strongly and spur its militarization, since the hopes that the United States will "help" will soon disappear and the Japanese will understand that for their own survival they will have to take for weapons. Most likely, the militarization of Japan will begin with small military skirmishes over disputed territories, a further escalation of military influence, as military experience is gained and new tasks are set.
  44. +1
    15 October 2014 09: 35




    Quote: IAlex
    In addition to this, the morale of our officers is clearly weak.





    And how do you, a Japanese patriot, know about morale, one grenade zhakrytyaet himself, the second grunts from the couch ?!
  45. 0
    15 October 2014 12: 18
    In my opinion, as a non-professional tanker (generally non-professional), the decision of the Japanese to create such a tank destroyer is very controversial, if only because the real tank destroyers are helicopters specializing in that. As for the machine itself, in my opinion it is too long / high and, accordingly, vulnerable to VET means. How it will immediately shoot to the side (perpendicular to the movement) is generally incomprehensible - a design with a high center of gravity on an unstable platform. The fight against tanks involves a fight not only on the freeways, but also in the field, where this vehicle will be inferior to tanks over terrain. If they offer these things for action in the conditions of the city, then yes, it is possible. However, I can not yet guess which cities in 2016-2018. Japan decided to take over. In short, this is a very controversial decision. Maybe this is somehow connected with the economy and geopolitics - time will tell.