Poland rejected the proposal of Russia to establish a monument to the tortured Red Army soldiers in Krakow

Russian militaryhistorical society (RVIO) not so long ago turned to the Polish side with a proposal to erect a monument on the territory of Poland to the Red Army soldiers who were tortured to death in Polish concentration camps during the Soviet-Polish war of 1919-1920. RVIO organized a fundraiser for the creation of such a monument and proposed to install it in Krakow at the Rakovitsky cemetery, where thousands of Red Army soldiers are buried in common graves.

In response to this initiative, Polish politicians said they did not want to hear about such a monument. At the same time, the arguments of the RVIO that there is a Polish monument in Katyn (near Smolensk), and it would be nice to establish a Russian monument in Krakow as a symbol of reconciliation, taken hostile. Reports about it RIA News.

The Polish authorities say that Red Army prisoners who were shot or died in the Polish camps were “aggressors who did not deserve to commemorate them.” The Polish Foreign Minister generally called the RVIO initiative a provocation aimed at “the division of the Poles”.

Interesting rhetoric of the Polish side. Polish authorities called the Red Army fighters aggressors, who responded to the conquest of the Polish army to the east. If Poland has forgotten, then it needs to be reminded that it was Warsaw who once unleashed the war by organizing a military offensive aimed at conquering lands in order to return Poland to the territory of the Commonwealth of the Year sample 1772. So who is the real aggressor?

If the Polish side calls the possible establishment of a monument to the Red Army soldiers (captive fighters who perished in Polish concentration camps) in Krakow, a provocation, then what is a Polish monument in Katyn near Smolensk. Is it not time to raise the question that the Katyn memorable sign causes a split in Russian society and solve the issue of its dismantling? ..

Comments

[tilovaykrisa]

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

[herruvim]

Then that's right too


Polish authorities claim that captured Polish soldiers who were executed or died in Soviet camps were "aggressors who did not deserve to be immortalized."

[Stalker]

Polish authorities claim that captured Polish soldiers who were executed or died in Soviet camps were "aggressors who did not deserve to be immortalized."


Showing off their prece was worth the life !!!

[herruvim]

Regarding Katyn, bloopers in the investigation:

First: Polish prisoners were killed from German weapons. Since the cartridges from the excavation were stolen quite intensively, including "sightseers" brought to the place of execution, the Germans had to admit this fact. The main service weapon of the NKVD personnel was Nagan, from which executions were carried out. Where did the German shells come from, including from large-caliber weapons that were not used at all in the USSR?

There was, of course, an explanation for this fact - but such a frank pulling of an owl on the globe ... Like, the NKVD leadership, for some unknown reason, supplied the performers with “Walters” especially for this execution. Why, sorry? Why is something bad?

The second puncture is much more significant. The Germans constantly write that they recognized the ranks of those executed by insignia. Meanwhile, according to the Soviet "Regulation on Prisoners of War" of 1931 and the secret provision of 1939, prisoners did not have the right to wear cockades and insignia - this was one of the differences between our "Regulation" from the Geneva Convention. Wearing all this was allowed only by the "Regulation" of July 1, 1941. And the fact that the uniforms of the executed were shoulder straps, and the badges - cockades, proves that they were killed either after this date, or were not held captive by the USSR, but by the state that complied with the Geneva Convention. This fact cannot be explained, therefore, supporters of the "Soviet" version simply hush it up.

[DRA-88]

The dirty juggling of facts in Katyn stimulated the lords to historical lies!
Soon, Krakow, according to their new history, will be liberated by the Allies, and not the Red Army.

[Silumin]

The dirty juggling of facts in Katyn stimulated the lords to historical lies!

Poland just still dreams of the Commonwealth.

[Jurkovs]

You're not right. They dream of Greater Poland. And this is Poland from sea to sea (Black).

[Silumin]

You're not right. They dream of Greater Poland. And this is Poland from sea to sea (Black).

What is heard from the Nazis from the right sector, only at the expense of the ruins.

[bekjan]

except their own death, they will not find anything. It will be necessary to arrange for them great Poland, from Krakow to Warsaw.

[Proud.]

Quote: herruvim

There was, of course, an explanation for this fact - but such a frank pulling of an owl on the globe ... Like, the NKVD leadership, for some unknown reason, supplied the performers with “Walters” especially for this execution. Why, sorry? Why is something bad?

Well, yes ... Following the conspiracy theory of Russophobes, we can conclude that they (Russophobes) whipped themselves - the NKVDeshniki and the government of the USSR knew that the Germans would definitely attack, reach Smolensk, and find the Poles who were shot. Therefore, they should be shot from German weapons. In order to blame everything on the Germans, "the Lamb of God". The seers, however ... Really, pulling an owl on the globe. And a living owl.

[Verden]

It's just that this story was beneficial to the Germans. Moreover, the "sensation" surfaced when the USSR began to recreate the Polish army.

[vicontas]

I will add - the hands of the executed Poles were tied with paper twine, which began to be produced in the USSR only after the war, on the German equipment taken out on account of reparations! And as for the memorial near Smolensk - it is necessary to draw attention to it, as to the monument to Yeltsin, which was painted with blue paint - paint with red paint and write "Memory of the executioners of Russian people who died in Poland"! Then the authorities would have combed themselves!

[DRA-88]

Quote: herruvim

herruvim (2) Yesterday, 18: 35 ↑
Regarding Katyn, bloopers in the investigation:

Give links to the authors!
Elena Anatolyevna Prudnikova (author of the material) is a Russian writer and journalist, author of works on historical topics. The total circulation of her books exceeded 100 thousand copies.
And then the Dear VO Audience may think that this is your statement.

[herruvim]

Give links to the authors!

Link to the article below via post

[Vitaly Anisimov]

The story is dark of course (read here in my opinion ..) And yet, almost 100 thousand died in captivity from hunger and disease ..
Malicious donuts as their servants who now rule in Kiev .. So it's all useless .. But sooner or later this monument will be all the same .. I believe!

[herruvim]

In August 1941, five kilometers from Katyn, the construction of the headquarters of Army Group Center began. Usually, during the construction of secret facilities, the Germans used prisoners, who were then destroyed. And since they had at their disposal ready-made working teams of the Polish camps, much more loyal to the Germans than the Russian prisoners, then using them for such an important construction made direct sense. After the completion of construction work, the Poles were taken to the Katyn forest and shot. There is nothing particularly outstanding in this; the Germans practiced this method throughout the war.

Here is a link to the entire article: http: //expert.ru/2014/03/5/skuchnaya-pravda-katyini/

[opus]

Quote: MIKHAN

And yet almost 100 thousand died in captivity from hunger and disease ..

1. As a result of the war launched by Poland in 1919 against the Soviet Russia, more than 180 thousand Red Army soldiers were captured by the Polish army

2.In total, in total with political prisoners and interned civilians, more than 200 of thousands of Red Army men, civilians, White Guards, fighters of anti-Bolshevik and nationalist (Ukrainian and Belarusian) groups were in Polish captivity and concentration camps.

3.polish authorities used mostly concentration campsbuilt Germans and Austrians during the First World War, such as Stshalkovo ( Most deadly), Shipturno, Lancut, Tuchol(The most deadly), but also prisons, sorting concentration stations, concentration centers and various military facilities like Modlin and the Brest Fortress, where there were four concentration camps at once.

In general, Polish captivity and internment claimed the lives of more than 90 thousand lives of Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian prisoners: about 10-12 thousand Red Army soldiers died before conclusion to concentration camps, of the order of 40-44 thousand in places of detention (approximately 30-32 thousand of Red Army soldiers plus 10-12 thousand of civilians and fighters of anti-Bolshevik and nationalist groups).



As Y.Bek, who became Foreign Minister in the 1930, recalled, “In the villages we killed everyone without exception and burned everything at the slightest suspicion of insincerity. I myself worked as a butt. ”

According to the representative of the Polish administration in the occupied territories, Count M. Kossakovsky: “The former chief of staff of General Listovsky, when they told him how they brained their heads and broke their limbs, reluctantly replied: “Nonsense”. I saw this experience: they sewed a living cat into someone’s open stomach and made a bet on who will die first, a man or a cat ”

diary K. Svitalsky (who served as deputy director of the Pilsudski Civil Chancellery): "An obstacle to the demoralization of the Bolshevik army by desertion from it and the transition to our side is the fierce and merciless destruction of our prisoners by our soldiers ".
===============================
For 1939, Germany must erect a monument in Katyn, and remove Polish Polish

[Viktortopwar]

and they were also going to allocate 400 square meters to them near Smolensk, in memory of the victims of the crash ... it’s better to plow this land.

[shed]

you need to invite more kov and then a monument to the common nits

[Lord of the Sith]

South Ossetia officially recognized the independence of the DPR and LPR

PRESIDENT OF SOUTH OSSETIA SIGNED ORDER ON RECOGNITION OF INDEPENDENCE OF DPR AND LPR

The President of South Ossetia Leonid Tibilov signed a decree recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.
According to the DPR press center, during a meeting between President of South Ossetia Leonid Tibilov and Speaker of the Parliament of New Russia Oleg Tsarev, the President of South Ossetia signed a special decree recognizing the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.
During the conversation, Leonid Tibilov emphasized that in his opinion, the fates of South Ossetia and Novorossia are very similar and close, because once the people of South Ossetia also felt pressure from the authorities and infringement of human rights. Therefore, the president is not indifferent to what is happening in the territories of the self-proclaimed republics.
“Today, after I signed the Decree on the recognition of the independence of the Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics, we have the opportunity to discuss our further cooperation,”
- noted Leonid Tibilov.
The President of South Ossetia also announced that the upcoming elections in the DPR and LPR will be attended by deputies of the parliament of South Ossetia as observers.
In turn, Oleg Tsarev emphasized that support for South Ossetia and Russia is very important for New Russia, since Novorossia alone could not cope with all the difficulties.
“The fates of the citizens of New Russia and South Ossetia are really very similar, we are also a divided people. It so happened that when Ukraine was in such a difficult situation, it was the Ossetians who felt it and accepted it as their own. It is impossible not to mention your guys who are volunteers in New Russia. We are very loved and perceived as heroes. Their perfect feat will forever remain in the memory of our people, ”emphasized Oleg Tsarev.
At the end of the meeting, the President of South Ossetia presented the Order of Friendship to Oleg Tsarev for his great contribution to the development and strengthening of relations of friendship and cooperation between the peoples of the Republic of South Ossetia and the Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics.

[Silumin]

Can you link?

[Russophile]

I live in Smolensk, but I have never been to Katyn and will not go. And for psheks to allow a monument to recognize the fact of the savage murder of thousands of Russians in the 20s. By the way, in Katyn are just those who took a direct part in the destruction of our prisoners.

[lelikas]

And Put a monument to the heroic trees of the Smolensk forest.

[enot73]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

First of all, we need to deal with Katyn. Too many facts prove that this crime was committed by the Germans. Firstly, most of the Polish prisoners subsequently fought against the Germans in the Polish Army or Anders' army, and it was in the interests of the Germans to incite the Poles against the Russians. It is also very strange, IMHO, that Polish prisoners were shot from unstable "Walters" and "Parabellums", and casings from Soviet weapons were not found at all.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: enot73

First of all, we need to deal with Katyn

Gotta ...
1. Close "for repairs for technical reasons".
2. "Completion of the renovation" by April next year with appropriate changes in the architecture of the ensemble in the spirit of "What does the interpretation of history in Polish lead to", "Who signed a cooperation pact with Hitler in 1934, and how it ended", etc. .d. etc.

[izGOI]

Quote: stalkerwalker

"Renovation complete" by April next year

Only not by April next year, but by the beginning of the next century. "Well, we cannot live without long-term construction, well, we are like that, what can you do. And Western sanctions have an effect on the timing."

[Silumin]

Just take it and take it to x ... m is this disgrace, and not build up the righteous from yourself.

[Akuzenka]

Colleague, wave your saber like an inveterate provocateur. For me, a cheer patriot is either a dumb individual or an ordinary provocateur. Moreover, it is not possible with graves if we ourselves want to remain PEOPLE. Here to close for repairs - the most interesting proposal.

[Shishiga]

Just take it and take it to x ... m is this disgrace, and not build up the righteous from yourself.

By the way, about tearing down the most sensible thought, in connection with newly discovered circumstances, the inscriptions on the monuments must be corrected - for example, the year of death, and the composition does not correspond to historical truth.

Colleague, wave your saber like an inveterate provocateur. For me, a cheer patriot is either a dumb individual or an ordinary provocateur. Moreover, it is not possible with graves if we ourselves want to remain PEOPLE. Here to close for repairs - the most interesting proposal.

But for this "-", there is no need to hang tags so briskly, you still have a quote so beloved by our liberal women, stamp "patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels" and something else like that, about a child's tears, the value of life, common European values.

[siberalt]

The Katyn criminal case must be brought to mind. It went to court, but there were so many "blunders" that it was returned for additional investigation. Then the military prosecutor's office quietly stopped. Then, for purely political reasons, our Duma decided everything on its own without trial or investigation. The category of such cases has no statute of limitations and can be resumed if desired. It was Medinsky's proposal "about pacification" in the form of erecting a monument to our tortured Red Army soldiers in Poland and was a subtle hint of fat circumstances. Now the turn is for Russia.

[AntidipresaHt]

Here is a rather interesting article on this topic:

http://versia.ru/articles/2012/may/14/ne_mytiem_tak_katyniu

[DRA-88]

Short memory of the pan ...

[brelok]

RIPPED FROM THE LANGUAGE!

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

[Walking]

Quote: brelok

RIPPED FROM THE LANGUAGE!

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Beat ahead

[1812 1945]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

In Poland, there are many monuments to Russian soldiers who died in World War II. The demolition of the monument in Katyn will provoke vandalism in relation to the monuments to the fallen heroes - soldiers of the Red Army. Poland should return to Russia, because not in the EU a place where they are second-class people for Western Europe, but in the Slavic Union, before which, in the near future, EU countries will crowd like beggars on the porch in anticipation of alms. The world is changing rapidly, and it will be Russia that will be the saving ark for people worth saving. Not this thing is predicted by me. Returning to the above, I am sure: there will be a time when it will be decided in agreement where and what monuments to erect the victims of wars and strife.

[qQQQ]

Quote: 1812 1945

Poland must return to Russia

As for the monument, I agree with the dead, to fight, as it is not ours. But Poland does not need us under any circumstances, it will be an eternal crap. The Poles then simply die from their own bile, and this is genocide.

[izGOI]

Quote: 1812 1945

Poland must return to Russia,

Didn’t the Galician lesson go for us?

[RBLip]

Quote: izGOI

Didn’t the Galician lesson go for us?

I may surprise you, but 100 years ago pro-Russian sentiments reigned in Galicia. and then ...

[Shishiga]

The demolition of the monument in Katyn will provoke vandalism in relation to the monuments to the fallen heroes - soldiers of the Red Army.

And vandalism on the part of the Poles towards our monuments, the desecration of military graves that took on a massive scale. And the appearance of such masterpieces

This provocation does not count ???.
Well, yes, they are children.

[Buran]

Why demolish? Just close, it itself will stall, overgrow, fall apart. It is necessary to look after such things, without which they quickly turn into the trash. Better yet, in its place, a monument to the tortured Red Army to build.

[Shishiga]

Better yet, in its place, a monument to the tortured Red Army to build.

Better on the contrary, as a reminder to the Poles, and to erect a monument on the bones of their executioners - to insult our victims.

[Mikhail3]

Do not. There you can walk along the paths if you don’t have time to fully go to the forest. And demolishing monuments is stupid. It would be necessary to build a monument nearby, which Poland is afraid of. So that you can remember our guys, killed and tortured by many thousands, without the slightest hope. What about the vile and cowardly Poles? Let them ...

[Buran]

And you can leave this memorial and build a memorial to the Red Army nearby, but link the Polish payments for yours to ours, so that the Polish soldiers pay for the memory of the tortured Russian soldiers. What is not an option?

[Lelek]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

It is not necessary to level it with the ground - this is blasphemy, but to send specials to Poland. an echelon with a postscript that they were staying for a long time - it is time and honor to know, it would be "Zhintilmensky".

[commoners]

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Well, why so radical! You just need to write the truth, here in the summer of 1941, German prisoners of war were executed by German fascist invaders, and after a dozen years there will be no memory of him. I give my head for clipping, not a single Pole with such an inscription will come to lay flowers on the memorial.

[Reserve officer]

The memorial in Katyn is an insult to Russia. In fact - a monument to the executioners of our Red Army. The executioners, in turn, were shot by the Germans. And Russia is to blame.
I make a proposal - at this place to erect a monument to the 200-anniversary of the destruction of Poland as a state. in 1815 the year she was gone, divided. Incidentally, it would be nice to know the Ukrainians. And then all the great Ukrainians, great Ukrainians ... And in the study of real history - losers.

[panfil]

We should not be like them. There is a lot of tragedy in our history and we know what it means to lose loved ones in wars. Therefore, we honor the memory of our soldiers, paying tribute to fallen enemies. Unfortunately, the Poles at all times were not capable of this. They have no honor, meanness in their blood. In Germany there are monuments to the fallen Soviet soldiers, although we actually defeated them, but the Poles are unfortunately not capable of this.

[KUOLEMA]

Smolensk comrades would you quietly deal with the problem of a monument to Polish interventionists

[Abbra]

Well, the Poles in their repertoire. The author is one hundred percent right.

[Yuri Y.]

The Russian Military Historical Society (RVIO) not so long ago turned to the Polish side with a proposal to erect a monument to the Red Army on the territory of Poland

I think ours did not expect another from official authorities. Probably decided to troll.

[Giant thought]

You just need to notify the Poles that in case of refusal to erect a monument to the Red Army tortured by the Poles, the monument in Katyn will be dismantled due to the imbalance.

[APASUS]

Quote: Giant thought

You just need to notify the Poles that in case of refusal to erect a monument to the Red Army tortured by the Poles, the monument in Katyn will be dismantled due to the imbalance.

This should have been done right away in the wake of the noise near Smolensk, and now I won’t be surprised if the Poles refuse because of the practically absence of such a fact. That is, there wasn’t such a thing in the history of Poland.
But they still need to squeeze, for any ............

[Revolver]

And in general, Russians have a rather indirect relation to Katyn, if at all.
I will not list all the inconsistencies, such as the use of 9mm cartridges of the German standard, and not 7,62 of the Soviet one. Let's assume that the "bloody gebnya" was engaged in the execution.
The executions of such a scale, and even foreigners, could not have been approved at the highest level. And who was Comrade Stalin by nationality? That's right, Georgians.
Who led the NKVD? Comrade Beria, another Georgian. And at the levels lower in the NKVD there were by no means only Russians, at that time there was a complete international.
The Poles themselves claim that Mikoyan had a hand in this, also not Slavic, but just Caucasian roots.
It would seem that all claims in Katyn, or at least part, should be brought to Georgia. But no, with Georgia Panov’s best friends, and the Russians are to blame for everything, as always with the Poles.

[aleks_29296]

No need to denigrate the leadership of the country of those years. Even if Stalin laid his hand to this, judging by how the Pshek treat us, they were shot negligible.

[Revolver]

Quote: aleks_29296

No need to denigrate the leadership of the country of those years

And had no thoughts, just tried to prove the inadequacy of the Polish position.

[Revolver]

Let me add that if we are to present bills for the "crimes of the bloody hebny," then Poland itself is in an unpaid debt for the blood of Russians, and not only Russians. The Cheka was founded by Comrade. Dzerzhinsky, purebred Pole. Well, sir, how about paying reparations for the 70s?

[Severomor]

Yes, you stop doing nonsense. Stop kicking the dead lion (lions) already. Both Stalin and Beria were primarily Soviet, yes, Soviet people. Now we can say that they are Russian. And do not shift the responsibility to the countries of Limitrophs, Versailles ugly and unfinished. They never knew this statehood, they don’t understand this.

[Silumin]

Now we can say that they are Russian.

It is impossible. In no case. These are Soviet people of not the best moral qualities.

Stop kicking the dead lion (lions) already

Yes, they do not pull on the lions, so the jackals seized power.

[Severomor]

Yes, they do not pull on the lions, so the jackals seized power

This is your personal opinion based on .... ????? There are many questions at once. Reading Solzhenitsyn? Viewing Mlechin-Svanidze? Study of the Second World War on the "memoirs" of a certain Rezun?
Read at least the statements about Stalin by President Roosevelt, anti-communist and Russophobe Churchill, A. Eden, Henry Kissenger and Charles De Gaulle.
And it turns out a bunch in a puddle
Threat Jackals do not restore a destroyed country, do not win wars and do not build a powerful economy.

[MEHT]

beautifully solid "+"

[Verden]

The ugly guys are these Poles. Since they do not want to recognize the fact of the planned destruction of the captive Red Army men, I propose to dismantle the monument to the Poles in Katyn, as it has no historical value. And Katyn history must finally be dealt with. A monument to the tortured Red Army can be put up in Western Belarus, then it was the territory of Poland, there were also concentration camps, and ours at one time suffered from forced polonization.

[Kovlad]

What's so surprising? Poland gladly licks eggs for Uncle Sam and is deeply grateful to England that the Poles are allowed to work there as plumbers.

[Starover_Z]

In short, colleagues in "VO", we should all admit that in Europe, alas, FASCISM is reborn!
And with what in all its manifestations ...

[Egoza]

Quote: Starover_Z

in Europe, alas, Fascism is reborn!
And with what in all its manifestations ...

Sorry, off topic!
But 50 people from Svoboda were arrested. The rest, who had arrived to hold a rally under the BP building with explosives and other delights, were dispersed! They never succeeded in pushing through a law to recognize the UPA sheryev as a belligerent party and veterans who deserve additional pensions and privileges. They were taken from all over Ukraine, but as long as the Communists and the remnants of the Party of Regions in the VR, the law will not be adopted. Yes, and the deputies "wondered" whether they need such "activists". No, Farion came out and greeted them, but Tyagnibok said that this was "a provocation against Freedom." Nu-nu, whom they revived from those and will receive, unless they themselves destroy their "child"!

[Aaron Zawi]

Zyyy!)))
http://4put.ru/pictures/max/1001/3076305.jpg
Funny.

[Revolver]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Zyyy!)))
https: //4put.ru/pitstures/mah/1001/3076305.ypg
Funny.

It would be funny if it were not so sad and disgusting.

[perm23]

Prostitutes, they are prostitutes. She was always so. They have everything somewhere in the ass sitting. That they are not Great Poland. It’s time for us to understand that we can’t speak with scum in the same language. They understand only the language of power.

[Dembel]

No monuments need to be leveled with the earth. It is harmful to the health of the mental, and especially the physical. This is proof, the infamous and very bloodthirsty Polish monument in Katyn near Smolensk.

[starshina pv]

Poles are Europe's most corrupt nation!

[traditions]

Bulgarians are even worse!

[traditions]

Bulgarians are even worse!

[Siberia 9444]

Lithuania is even worse!

[Mountain shooter]

Pshekov never loved. It hurts a lot of ambition. By the way, their ears in dill also stick out from behind each bush.

[Kazakh]

My patriotic feelings are very offended by the monument in Katyn, so I can’t tell them to eat in Moscow and Warsaw when I hear about Katyn. It’s necessary to demolish in solidarity with the Polish comrades. Or, next to Katyn’s, to commemorate the dead Red Army soldiers, they put flowers and lay flowers on them

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Kazakh

I can’t eat when I hear about Katyn. It is necessary to demolish in order of solidarity with the Polish comrades.

There was no need to erect this monument !!! But, in an unsuccessful attempt to normalize Russian-Polish relations, it was erected and now it is too late to tear the vest and become like, for example, the Ukrainian "barbarians." In addition, there are more than 600 military graves of Soviet soldiers in Poland. With our consulates, the Polish authorities monitor the safety and order. And if the monument in Katyn is subjected to an act of vandalism, then the Polish radicals will ricochet these monuments. And they should lie quietly in Polish soil. We should have thought earlier.

[Turkestan]

Everything is correct. It is only necessary to put next to the Polish monument in KATYNI a beautiful large monument to the fighters of the red victims of the Polish camps in the 20s.

[andrei332809]

I hope ours did not count on a positive answer? So, did you troll the honorable gentry? Still propose to erect a monument to Russian soldiers in the lion

[calocha]

I don’t know how soon, but I should wait for an attack, maybe next year, maybe later. The equipment is slowly moving to our borders ...

[staric]

Yes, let the monument in Katyn stand. It’s like a lighthouse. Maybe there’s not one more Polish plane approaching it.

[frostof63]

the question posed in the article is interesting)))) if in any country there is a reassessment of history, the dismantling of monuments, their transfer to the outskirts, is it time for Russia to reconsider its relations ??? stop repenting, that was, we remember, we grieve ,but not more

[Leonidych]

Poles are used by all and sundry, like a reusable prez

[Den_den]

Well, the Poles, too, have been aggressors for several centuries, therefore, as revenge, Zhirinovsky’s ambassador there, he will put them in his place, he will force Russia to respect, even without an army.

[velikoros-xnumx]

In Tucholi, Stshalkov and others, about half (60-80 thousand people) of the total number of prisoners of war (150-160 thousand people) died from inhuman conditions and diseases. Against this background, events of Katyn fade where it was shot about 4000 Polish prisoners of war, I emphasize shot, and not tortured by inhuman conditions of detention, feel the difference. At the same time, the fact of the execution of prisoners of war in Katyn by the Soviet military is still rather doubtful. Numerous examinations were carried out, during which contradictory facts were revealed, some of which confirmed the "Soviet" version of the execution, and some "German". So, despite the statements of officials, the issue of responsibility for the shooting is controversial for many independent historians.

[vdtomsk]

Quote: starshina pv

Poles are Europe's most corrupt nation!

and they also love to shake

[Funnels]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Don't, let's not fight the monuments, otherwise we will go down to their level. A memorial to the Red Army soldiers can be placed in Katyn, opposite the Polish one. Here you are "two sides of the same medal", and the "folk path" will show the attitude of people.

[Dembel]

Bravo Funnel - the most sensible thought!

[grog_bm]

or maybe the people, we’ll write where it should, show civic consciousness, throw off the dough and put up a national monument ???? Where it is necessary to throw such an application, no one will tell ???

[Mikola-78]

Pshek - prostitutes are corrupt, already sick of them

[surovts.valery]

Quote: Viktortopwar

and they were also going to allocate 400 square meters to them near Smolensk, in memory of the victims of the crash ... it’s better to plow this land.

So there all the ardent Polish Russophobes are laid to rest. I do not blaspheme, because died in peacetime and not in battle, but through the fault of their own Russophobic obstinacy. There was an attempt of reconciliation on our part, there was no need to hush up this damned Katyn and not obey them, namely to be reconciled, like two worthy soldiers, having forgiven the misfortunes and insults inflicted on each other. So no, by the decree of the new mattress friends, we are, as always, enemies.

[Riperbahn]

What is this mucus slime asking for ?! On the border with Pshechnya, establish a monument of the Motherland type. What would these goats from the middle of their stinking Pshechiny be seen. What would stutter and piss from fear!

[Des10]

Well, a monument to the white-collars in Chelyabinsk - many were against it, but there is one.
So here - there would be a will - there will be a monument.
And from the side of the Poles - not great power. And this will respond to something.

[ava09]

Enough for the Russians to repent before the scum. Moreover, their aggressive nature never changed, and if they received something, then only in response to their own atrocities.

[Karbofast]

Buy and sell everything from Poland. Already in the ass of America, they climbed in and crawled out from there, finding nothing good for themselves, and not having received anything worthwhile. Seeing how they are considered to be world forgiven. The question with Katyn can be turned in another way. Now it is necessary in all the media to begin aggressive pressure on pshek across the front. Take on the indisputable facts and smother this senile sv.loch. If you need to raise the issue at the UN. Show hu from hu. Kaczynski and Sikorski judged in The Hague as war criminals.

[mixei]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

It’s a pity that I can only plus one time ...

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Not in vain during the time of Imperial Russia, the zheks were spread rot ... They are incorrigible ... alas! They like to rob Russian lands .. like in general other small border peoples .. Now with the help of the USA they are again waiting for the moment .. well, well!

[valokordin]

The admission of their guilt for the death of the Polish military in Katyn is the desire of the top leadership of Russia to bow down before our enemies, in the hope of their support for their betrayal. The honest prosecutor VIKTOR IVANOVICH ILYUKHIN proved that this death of the Poles was on the conscience of the Nazis, and the court recognized the falsification of evidence of the guilt of the Soviet Union, committed by our traitors. But the current leadership lacks the courage to admit it, just as it lacks the courage to really help Donbass. I propose (one might think who would agree with this) to dismantle and send the monument from Katyn to Poland, and to erect a monument at the place of death, as in Babi Yar. With the words: "Eternal memory to Polish soldiers. Death to the Nazis"

[awersa]

One god knows exactly what happened on Katyn, he is also a judge, it was not for nothing that the Polish presidential plane crashed there, it seems that God decided not to be limited to heavenly justice, but on the contrary decided to speed it up in this way ...

[chenia]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Fuck, plant more birches. And let the Poles fly in more often.

[SCHWERIN]

Mumbled with the Poles. Who executed (shot) the interned Poles is a big question. But ours caved in, took sin into our souls. By the way, I read in the memoirs of Mannarheim that it was said that the West wanted to use these lads-internees in the war against the USSR. The Polish government in London was actively lobbying for this idea, but somehow it didn’t work out. Well, about the memorial in Katyn .....
And materials about captured Red Army soldiers in Poland appeared after perestroika took place. The party bosses knew about this, but having a bad way not to offend the vulnerable souls of fraternal peoples - Bulgarians, Poles, etc., in the participation of their regimes and individual representatives in dirty tricks against the Union. For what we now receive.

[sever.56]

http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/935/pvhj350.jpg

[tomcat117]

Since Poland rejected the monument to our martyred martyrs in Krakow, you probably need to install it in Katyn, let the Poles every time you visit your memorial"stumble" over him.

[kind]

Moreover, the monument to our martyred martyrs in Krakow must be installed at the entrance, and at the exit, on marble, list the atrocities of the Poles.

[valokordin]

Quote: tomcat117

Since Poland rejected the monument to our martyred martyrs in Krakow, you probably need to install it in Katyn, let the Poles every time you visit your memorial"stumble" over him.

The idea is very good and timely.

[Romass]

History has shown that there are Poles, and there are some poles that are undefeated. Right now, the restless sixrost bikes rule.

[brisk]

Russia needs to point out to the pshek their "delusions" much harder and more decisively. Do not be shy! A resolute politician with a sense of dignity, in response to such attacks, would have covered up any Katyn memorials with gatherings.

[Pancho]

This is not a boy’s speech, but a husband!

[brisk]

The burials of our Psheski warriors have always been regularly desecrated. It would be best to pick up the remains of the dead in Russia. In the end, the remains of the German invaders 50 to 60 years after the war are transferred to Germany. Although, probably, it is utopian. Pick up 600 thousand.

[Reserve buildbat]

Or maybe not "raise a question," but simply demolish all the monuments to the Pshek soldiery, etc. on Russian territory? And to inform that the monuments to the occupiers have no right to exist. And along the way, to remind the Germans that their "minced meat" in the land of Russia is many tens, or even thousands of tons

[Pancho]

I was tired of this damned political correctness of our authorities. It was necessary to broadcast an excavator bucket when handing over the appeal to the Poles, even though the bucket of an excavator was carried over the phone in Katyn. At the same time, mentioning that the refusal means the momentary start of demolition of all this Polish garbage. These animals are not they understand in a good way, we need to speak with them in the language of ultimatums, and our bezayaytsy only can wail what. Also, Ukraine profiled.

[m.makovej]

It is a pity that "our" leadership is so shitty. It would be STALIN, it would be different. Calmly raze the Katyn yu, restore military power in Kaliningrad, let them scratch the "turnips". 300 years the gentlemen are bully and all in the end get in the head. Well, what to talk about filth. It is necessary to prove "who is who" with deeds.

[Colonelic]

Quote: opus

As the Minister of Foreign Affairs Y. Bek, who became the Minister of Foreign Affairs in the 1930s, recalled, “In the villages we killed everyone without exception and burned everything at the slightest suspicion of insincerity. I myself worked as a butt. ”

But it is reliably known that this same Polish minister, J. Beck, was a long-standing German agent and an ardent supporter of Poland’s participation in Hitler’s German campaign in the East!

[Victor-M]

It would be nice to separate the Polish people from the Polish pro-Western, fascist cattle headed by the Polish leadership of easy behavior. There are sane people in Poland who are not afraid, and despite the opposition of the Polish authorities, they repair and protect monuments to Soviet soldiers liberators on their own. To level the monuments with the ground is not an option. You should not be like the animal instinct of Western "civilization". That is why we are Russians, in order to protect and honor the memory of the fallen, even enemies. Russians are a nation of keepers.

[Aandrewsir]

What is there to talk about? "Ungrateful American Fosterlings" in their own style. Their dead are worthy of memory and monuments because they are "just good and correct." And if our ancestors "offended" them, then we must "obey". And our dead and tortured are not worthy, simply because "they are bad and wrong." And the Poles do not have to blame for their actions. Iron logic! American! And now, take a bite, you fucked up psheki! I apologize to the readers for being rude, but I got all s ...

[Grigorievich]

But what to take from them, wretched. As there was a swaggering d ... mo, it remained.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

it’s necessary not only to demolish the monument, it is necessary to carry out a thorough and thorough investigation of those events, in addition, at this very place to erect a monument to the tortured Red Army soldiers

[pvv113]

Quote: DRA-88

The dirty juggling of facts in Katyn stimulated the lords to historical lies!
Soon, Krakow, according to their new history, will be liberated by the Allies, and not the Red Army.

The falsification of facts has been going on for a long time. I remember somewhere else in the 70s they discussed the Polish song "The Polish Army took Berlin, and the Soviet - helped." At that time, the allies' conceit was largely ignored. But recently the favorite childhood film "4 tankers and a dog" was banned from showing. Someone really needs to erase from people's memory the friendship between the USSR and Poland, as well as the role of the Soviet Union in the Second World War in general, and in the liberation of Poland in particular.

[NEXUS]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Why be like geyropovskih imbitsilami? Dead are to blame for something, if their descendants neither history nor conscience (I about the Poles and others like them)?

[Vitaly Anisimov]

The monument is a good thing, of course..But the main thing is our memory! Surnames, documents, books, articles... In Russia, many have died, are dying and will die for the idea for the Motherland! These 100 thousand died in the Polish Austro-Hungarian camps... For Trotsky's idea of ​​"world revolution"! And as he said, “Russia should be firewood in this global fire..” Now in Ukraine such garbage is going on.. Almost everyone there is “Trotsky.” And there’s a lot of blood...

[INF]

Quote: 1812 1945

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

In Poland, there are many monuments to Russian soldiers who died in World War II. The demolition of the monument in Katyn will provoke vandalism in relation to the monuments to the fallen heroes - soldiers of the Red Army. Poland should return to Russia, because not in the EU a place where they are second-class people for Western Europe, but in the Slavic Union, before which, in the near future, EU countries will crowd like beggars on the porch in anticipation of alms. The world is changing rapidly, and it will be Russia that will be the saving ark for people worth saving. Not this thing is predicted by me. Returning to the above, I am sure: there will be a time when it will be decided in agreement where and what monuments to erect the victims of wars and strife.

And who needs them here? We don't need Poland. They're bothering us with crap, bets have already been placed, no more bets are being accepted! Everyone who wanted showed us their attitude. We, like rabbits, need to reproduce, use and populate our territories.

[Pyckaya-dubina]

We need to dismantle the monument at Katyn and send it to them!

[Victor-M]

Despite the refusal of the Polish "authorities", it would be possible to erect a monument to Soviet prisoners of war tortured in Polish concentration camps, next to the monument to the victims of Katyn. In fact, both of them are innocent victims of political games. This would be a beautiful move, since upon the arrival of the Polish delegation to honor the memory of their fallen officers, they would unwittingly honor the memory of the Soviet soldiers tortured by their ancestors.

[stranik72]

According to Katyn, our libertarian politicians have completely screwed up, now we are sniffing Polish fakes. In the USA there are diaries of Himler, where there is a record that he is surprised how some German things could end up in the graves of the Poles and demands that those responsible be punished. Ours, naturally, for the purposes of “political expediency,” decided to play along, and the facts that were against the evidence of the participation of the NKVD in this case were rejected, and to whom, the eternal enemy of Russia.

[pvv113]

Polish politicians said they don’t want to hear about such a monument

I wonder how the Psheks would react to the proposal to erect a monument to the guards of Auschwitz?

[propolsky]

Wish your enemy good health, for God himself knows what to give him...

[Inok10]

... They are trying to impose on us: .. It’s a shame to be Russian .. why don’t I believe it?! .. Probably because they were RUSSIAN IN ESSENCE!: .. Peresvet, Oslyablya, Prince Igor, Dmitry Dolgoruky, Dmitry Donskoy, Vladimir Monomakh, Alexander Nevsky, Ivan the Terrible, Peter I, Catherine II .. Suvorov, Kutuzov, Nakhimov. ... here you can also list for a very long time the Marshals of the Second Great Patriotic War ... Malinovsky, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Konev, Antonov, Bagramyan, Vatutin, Voronov, Govorov, Golovko, Eremenko, Zakharov, Kuznetsov, Oktyabrsky, Tolbukhin, Tributs, Khrulev, Chernyakhovsky , Chuikov, Shaposhnikov and SUPREME COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF STALIN! .. and this is not counting the entire PLEIADE of the First Patriotic War of 1812 .. this list of Talents only in military glory can stretch to 20 pages .. and none of the Creative People and People of Science are mentioned here .. we have always been a Cultural Nation! .. that’s why they ALWAYS treated the enemy’s fallen soldiers with respect! .. there is no need to stoop to the level of European lack of culture, now elevated to the rank of .. naturalness in relation to Russia (USSR) .. someone above correctly noted that the monument to our fallen wars should stand directly opposite the Polish one .. THE MEMORY OF WARS SHOULD BE HONORED WITH RESPECT! ..

[dyremar 66]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

especially since it has been proven that the Germans shot and the documents found are fakes like Yakovlev's comrades. A drunkard and a traitor, Yaitsin Benya, a contempt of the Russian Federation, who apologized for the execution, is burning in hell.

[sharp-lad]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Why be like geyropovskih imbitsilami? Dead are to blame for something, if their descendants neither history nor conscience (I about the Poles and others like them)?

Absolutely correct! Pshek is constantly running into problems, so we must allow them to run into serious problems, not through a war on memory and monuments, but by completely ignoring everything about Pshek!

[Viktor Kudinov]

The memory of our Red Army soldiers is dear to us, and a monument to them should stand in Poland, where they died. A ban on the construction of such a monument is inappropriate. If it appears, then it can be regarded as an unfriendly fact. The reaction should be appropriate. Agree

Isn’t it time to raise the question that the Katyn memorial sign is causing a split in Russian society, and decide on its dismantling?..

I think that the Russian Federation needs to prepare a proposal for the Poles to take their Katyn monument from our territory - so that they themselves dismantle it and take it away.

[Federal]

There is no need to become like all the evil spirits of the Nazis, Svidomoists, masochists and other crap, there is a monument and let it stand, don’t touch it, let it stand. And if the lords do not allow a monument to be erected, God will be their judge.

[Gorvas]

We don’t need to level the memorial in Katyn to the ground, we won’t be like bearded women, we need to build ours opposite their memorial, where we will show in detail how these Nevin Katyn souls and their compatriots destroyed the Russians, and show all the atrocities, without any political correctness, so that visitors will vomit and fainted

[Venier]

Sooner or later, we will reckon with the Poles and Bandera’s scum for everything.

[vladi66]

It has already been proven that the Germans did their work in Katyn and blamed it on the USSR, so the monument should not be touched, just change its meaning.

[Monster_Fat]

And what’s stopping you from building exactly the same memorial in memory of the martyred Red Army soldiers, next to the “Katyn” and let the Poles look at it when they visit theirs and let them just try not to put flowers on it...

[Tanechka-clever]

"...Isn't it time to raise the question that the Katyn memorial sign is causing a split in Russian society, and resolve the issue of dismantling it?.. "
I support the author of the article.
DEMOLISH.... These were not heroes of the Russian land, they were enemies of the Russian land. And now there is a monument to them on our land. Wildness ...
Today this monument in Russia is disrespect for the memory of the fallen Red Guards in Polish captivity and they will not forgive us for this.....
And also the blood of the Russians, shed on Polish soil for their liberation from the Nazi invaders, will also be held against the Poles for BLACK INGRACE and let them begin to prepare for this. Those who forget good - LIFE always returns to the “starting” point for rethinking....

And the Russians will not wean themselves from doing GOOD, erasing the spit of their former friends and brothers. If you don't respect yourself, others won't respect you either. And the number of requests and demands will only grow .. from former friends who are used to getting “for a good attitude”, and now want to get the same for a “bad” attitude.

Poland learned well during the Soviet period that it is possible to play with the same goal with Russia.
And the US policy towards Russia shows that if such actions are not stopped, they begin to threaten the national security of the country and lead to the humiliation of the nation.
It’s high time to demolish this Katyn memorial so that it doesn’t humiliate the Russians. His installation even then caused condemnation in Russian society, but the voice of the people was not heard.
For this, the Poles showed us how the Russian State should have acted in relation to the Katyn monument.
I am glad about the revival of Russian nationalism in Russia, since there were no Russians in Russia, but there were Lithuanians, Georgians, Estonians - and the Soviet people.
BUT THE MAIN THING is that Russian nationalism does not slide into RUSSIAN NAZISM. It is not the same...

[EvgenR36]

Quote: herruvim

Regarding Katyn, bloopers in the investigation:

First: Polish prisoners were killed from German weapons. Since the cartridges from the excavation were stolen quite intensively, including "sightseers" brought to the place of execution, the Germans had to admit this fact. The main service weapon of the NKVD personnel was Nagan, from which executions were carried out. Where did the German shells come from, including from large-caliber weapons that were not used at all in the USSR?

There was, of course, an explanation for this fact - but such a frank pulling of an owl on the globe ... Like, the NKVD leadership, for some unknown reason, supplied the performers with “Walters” especially for this execution. Why, sorry? Why is something bad?

The second puncture is much more significant. The Germans constantly write that they recognized the ranks of those executed by insignia. Meanwhile, according to the Soviet "Regulation on Prisoners of War" of 1931 and the secret provision of 1939, prisoners did not have the right to wear cockades and insignia - this was one of the differences between our "Regulation" from the Geneva Convention. Wearing all this was allowed only by the "Regulation" of July 1, 1941. And the fact that the uniforms of the executed were shoulder straps, and the badges - cockades, proves that they were killed either after this date, or were not held captive by the USSR, but by the state that complied with the Geneva Convention. This fact cannot be explained, therefore, supporters of the "Soviet" version simply hush it up.

and thirdly, the hands of the corpses were tied with paper twine, which was not produced in the USSR.

[Turkestan]

In February 1920, the 20th White Guard group of General Bredov was interned in Poland, retreating there under the onslaught of the Red Army from Ukraine. At that time, the Poles were at war with the Bolsheviks. However, instead of fraternally accepting the allies in arms and making it easier for themselves to fight the common enemy, the creator of the Polish state, Marshal Jozef Pilsudski, sent them to concentration camps.
As archival documents show, the interned White Guards were hardly fed or provided with medical care. The camp guards were rampant: they not only robbed the internees, but also often severely beat them.
As a result, the mortality rate was horrific: by August 1920, at least four thousand people had died before the survivors were sent to Wrangel.
Yudenich's white army, forced to retreat to the Baltic states, was treated in much the same way. They let us through the border in small groups, then took away our weapons, after another kilometer all our valuables, and then our clothes.


So, as one of the historians put it, they were hitting not on the “ideological passport”, but simply on the Russian face.

[Maaslo Sallonen]

"By the spring of 1920, the Polish army, equipped and trained, numbered about 750 thousand soldiers. General Haller's 70 thousand army, formed from immigrant Poles, was transferred to Poland from France. The Poles received from France almost one and a half thousand guns, three thousand machine guns, over three hundred thousand rifles, half a billion rounds of ammunition, two hundred armored cars, three hundred aircraft, other military equipment.... On April 25, 1920, taking advantage of the fact that the spacecraft was fighting Wrangel’s troops in the Crimea, it struck the republic in the back (very European style) The troops of the Western and Southwestern Fronts numbered 65 thousand soldiers. In May, the Poles took Kiev and reached the Dnieper.... But during the counter-offensive, by August 13, the spacecraft reached the 12-kilometer line from Warsaw, leaving as a result without ammunition , ammunition and fodder. The USA, England, France provided additional assistance to the Poles and, going on a counter-offensive, the Poles inflicted defeat on the spacecraft on August 16. 150 thousand were killed, 66 thousand Red Army soldiers were captured, and later all of them died....". (V.S. Antonov “Reconnaissance began with them”). I retold it almost verbatim. Think about it: 66 thousand died in captivity! Against 14 thousand in Katyn (and even then the guilt of the Cheka is in doubt). Subsequently, the USSR asked Poland for documents about the fate of these 66 thousand, but the Poles replied that during the Second World War the archives were taken away by the Germans. In a word, the monument to Russian soldiers destroyed by Poland after 1920 BE. And install it near Katyn. Let them not forget either.

[Reader]

It would be nice to erect a memorial in Katyn to the victims of the siege of Smolensk of 1609-1611. Let me remind you that then, during the 2-year siege, almost 90% of the city’s residents died.
So let the gentlemen Poles, on the way to their officers, pass by monuments to the victims of Polish aggression on our land. You definitely need to make sure you don’t pass by.

[Jarserge]

How is it in the Bible - an eye for an eye?!

[Danilich]

Quote: tilovaykrisa

Katyn (memorial) is high time to raze the earth.

Not guys war is war and don’t touch the monuments. Otherwise, how are we better than these without cultural d.e.g.e.n.e.r.a.t.o.v??? Russophobia kills, let them ask their ancestors. Although this is history I haven’t taught you anything and won’t teach you anything!

[Valestine]

I AM FOR! Yes, it’s time to dismantle the monument. Stop playing giveaway. It has long been necessary to bring historical clarity to the events of 1920-21, as well as remind the Polish establishment of the “peculiarities of Polish national policy” towards Russia over the past 600 years.

[I am human]

The Katyn monument must be razed to the ground... They were the ones who cried, and they were killed by the Nazis... You can’t even compare, and the Poles are worse than the Nazis...

[Red Army of the USSR]

Catholics they are Catholics, the Pope obliged his flock to welcome the go-mi-kovs, complete degradation of society, complete trampling of the canons of the Bible, and the Poles were never a nation, they were a nation PR-OS-TI-TU-TOK given to everyone, even Negro, and the only thing I am grateful to the Germans for is Katyn