Military Review

Rescue drowning

62
Rescue drowning


The analysis of recent events confirms the gloomy guesses: the idea of ​​the Great New Russia is actively merging.

If Novorossia is “merged” by turning it into 3 of the year (by the way, what will happen after 3 years? What kind of nonsense is this “special status” for 3 of the year? Greater Transnistria, with the subsequent capture of dissenting activists of the “Right Sector”, we will get a large, united and indivisible, Ukraine-hating country with a zombie population and neo-Nazis in power.

This is a country about the size of France, with a large population, with a strong defense industry potential. A country that with pleasure in retaliation of Russia will deploy NATO bases and missile defense systems on its territory. A country that sooner or later, with the support of NATO and the United States, will take up the issue of the Crimea, is obviously a military solution, even if it has no real chance to win.

Do not understand this and hope that the "gas issue" will be able to manage this country, can only be crazy.

The “drain of Novorossiya”, the transformation of the destroyed Donbass into Greater Transnistria, which will most likely hang on the neck of the Russian taxpayers, is, excuse me for the jargon, “kidalovo” of its people, who believed in Russia.

It is also a "kidalovo" of the people of Russia, who believed that we "do not abandon ours", which will lead to a great disappointment of the Russians in the decisions taken.

It is also a crime against the interests of the national security of Russia, because it is possible to deploy military bases near Kharkov without NATO, and the United States will do this directly.

If Ukraine remains a united and indivisible state with Galicia in composition, strangling Novorossia, and with a neo-Nazi regime at the head, war with Russia is inevitable in the medium term.

Only New Russia and its army from the inside, without the introduction of Russian troops, can produce the dismantling of the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine and its denazification.

Obviously, the solution to this problem is at least two problems:

A) Ukrainian army, punitive battalions and PS.
B) Rear and "voentorg".

As for the rear, there are no extra comments, everyone understands everything.

As for the power part of the issue, it is time for New Russia to start playing its own game and stop depending on the puppeteers. It is for them to live in case of defeat under the rule of Kiev (or not to live).

The battle, no matter how difficult it may sound, must go on two fronts. New Russia should gain trumps for negotiations in both capitals - both Kiev and Moscow.

Let me explain my thought: there is an opinion that Novorossia is played and manipulated, either "providing assistance" or recalling it. I can only judge this by news feeds and comments.

To play on an equal footing in these games, Novorossia must have its own trump cards. And she potentially has these trumps.

We must not forget that an important part of the Russian defense industry is located in Novorossia - this is Yuzhmash, Motor Sich, Kharkov defense plants, and Nikolaev shipyards.

No matter how our defenders are not ruffled, that they are engaged in import substitution, this process will still take years and will be very expensive, and Yuzhmash can hardly be replaced.

And export contracts for export are “burning.” And, undoubtedly, there are penalties, not weak.

And we wanted to build aircraft carriers, but nowhere, except in Nikolaev, there are no opportunities for that yet.

The task in practice is very difficult, but theoretically it sounds like this: for the survival of Novorossia, you need to take control of these cities and their factories by all means.

By controlling these plants, Novorossia can already directly, on equal terms, carry on a dialogue with Moscow, selling components for the defense industry, as they say, here and now.

Also, the pipe will go partially through the territory of New Russia.

Well, let's not forget that the land road to the Russian Crimea passes through the territory of Novorossia. Given the fact that the bridge will be even when, and now there are not enough ferries for the tourist flow, plus construction projects are planned. How are the materials going to deliver, curious?

In general, the New Russia will have something to offer for its part.

These are good maps for the negotiating table on the subject of "Voentorg" work.

Also, taking control of major cities and enterprises historical New Russia, the younger sister of Russia will be able not only to conduct a dialogue, but also to dictate its conditions to Kiev.

Trumps on hand - the following.

Energy: all the coal in Ukraine is Donbass and Dnepropetrovsk region. Kiev will not be able to deliver coal bypassing Novorossia, if it controls the ports of Mariupol and Odessa.

Oil and gas of Ukraine - in the Kharkiv region.

Finally, almost the entire industry of Ukraine is the enterprises of Novorossia, which means they are taxes that are being paid to Kiev, and can remain on the ground. Without these taxes, Kiev is completely bankrupt. If Novorossia takes them under control and closes taxes on itself, then Kiev simply will not have money for anything. This means complete control of the country and the Kiev regime.

Plus the trump ace is the highly motivated army of New Russia.

With such trumps in hand, you can dictate your conditions to Kiev: reformatting Ukraine into a confederation of 4 parts - Galicia, Transcarpathia, Central Ukraine (Little Russia) and Novorossia.

Why confederation?

Well, first of all, separation into an unrecognized state is not an option for both residents of Novorossia and for business. Public support is important, but who wants to be in Greater Transnistria?

Secondly, in a confederation format, each of its subjects is a sovereign state with the right of unilateral withdrawal. That is the statehood is made out.

And thirdly, setting a goal of constitutional reform to change the form of government instead of secession, the activists of Novorossia will cease to be separatists and "terrorists."

Well, finally, the confederation is an acceptable compromise with Europe. Since in fact, at least in the first stage, the state remains one, that is, there are no annexations and divisions.

Further - more interesting.

If Novorossia decides not to subsidize Galicia (namely, Western Ukraine is a subsidized region, and Novorossia is a donor), it will most likely use its right to withdraw and reunite with Poland, for example, in the autonomy format. This will be better for both Ukraine and Galicia itself.

Transcarpathia can go to Slovakia, Hungary or Romania, as they themselves decide. The advantage of such a disconnection may be that Ukrainian supporters of euromaidan and especially svidomye citizens could register in Galicia and automatically receive European citizenship.

If they go to Europe, having received European passports, the rest of Ukraine will become a calmer place.

By the way, in a different way in reality, the "descendants of the ancient ukrov" Europeans have no chance of becoming.

New Russia and Little Russia could join the Customs Union and Eurasian Economic Community.

If there is a mutual desire, a confederation with Russia is possible, while the disposition of Novorossia and Little Russia will not be part of Russia, and will not hang on its budget, which is what liberal economists frighten us with.

It is even possible to join the Russian Federation, over time, years through 20, when a generation brought up on normal textbooks will change. That is, a confederation can be reformatted into a federation by mutual desire by concluding an interstate agreement.

The confederation solves almost all problems of Ukraine. This is an opportunity for a legally literate "divorce", and the statehood of New Russia and Little Russia will be legally formalized.

It is necessary to understand that the concept of a unified and pro-Russian Ukraine with Galicia as a part is untenable.

Galicia is another world. The consequences of its influence on the inhabitants of Ukraine, we now see in the Donbas. This is not anti-Galich propaganda, it is a statement of fact. Galicia should return to Europe, from where it was illegally taken to 1939. As well as with the Crimea, this would be a rectification of a historical mistake.

After the separation of Galicia, in one form or another, the 2 / 3 of today's Ukraine will be able to return to the “Russian world”. All - nothing at all.

Why all these thoughts out loud? I see the leaders of Novorossia - the Brain, Gubarev - the desire to fix everything, but I do not see a clear, intelligible plan of action. They need to formulate in several points what they want to come to and work with people:

1. Military victory over the Ukrainian army.
2. The liberation of the territory of historical Novorossia.
3. Hard negotiation process with Kiev to reformat Ukraine into a confederation.
4. You can voice the idea of ​​nationalization.
5. The entry of the New Russia and the Ukraine into the Customs Union and Eurasian Economic Community.

New Russia and its patriots time to start playing their game. Salvation of drowning people is the work of drowning people themselves!
Author:
Originator:
http://historyndex.com/page-history/spasenie-utopajuwih---delo-ruk-samih-utopajuwih/
62 comments
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  1. Evgeniy-111
    Evgeniy-111 25 September 2014 08: 47
    0
    Something the author contradicts himself (at the beginning and at the end) ...
    1. Balbes_I
      Balbes_I 25 September 2014 09: 10
      +12
      There is no contradiction, there is a very difficult situation. New Russia has practically taken place, it remains to fix it legally, and this will be a difficult process. But with any development of this process, there will be no longer unitary Ukraine, therefore, Big New Russia is not merged, but temporarily postponed.
      1. DRA-88
        DRA-88 25 September 2014 11: 57
        +6
        Quote: Balbes_I
        Big New Russia is not merged, but temporarily postponed.

        So you say temporarily ..., remember everything temporary is permanent!
        How do you imagine the surrender by kaklo-oligarchs of such tidbits as ports and major enterprises? provided that some oligarchs are closely connected with the Russians, who have a serious lobby in the power structures of the Russian Federation. It is enough to look at the current database map to understand only two-thirds of the two former Ukrainian regions under the control of the Novorossiya Army.
        The worst thing is the ceasefire during the victorious offensive is a fact! By the end of August and the first days of September, the army of kaklov was almost defeated and demoralized and the possibility of seizing the entire territory of New Russia was very likely !!!
        And now what, and now the junta has strengthened at the frontiers of armistice, strengthened and stabilized the front line, rearmament, having received large reinforcements in heavy weapons and equipment, regrouped the troops! In such circumstances, the war will be very difficult and possibly protracted! The support of the local population will melt, as tired of the horrors of war. The support of the population in the territories of other regions of New Russia is becoming less and less for the same reasons!
        If Novorossia goes on about Moscow and Kiev puppeteers, then the drain is inevitable !!!
        It is necessary to continue the struggle under the slogans that are simple and understandable to the people, the Earth to the Peasants, Workers' Plants, Power to the people !!! only in this case, the People will support. It was the People’s State that was the goal of the Revolution in New Russia, and all other options are the drain !!! hi
        1. zao74
          zao74 25 September 2014 14: 22
          +1
          It is necessary to continue the struggle under the slogans that are simple and understandable to the people, the Earth to the Peasants, Workers' Plants, Power to the people !!! only in this case, the People will support. It was the People’s State that was the goal of the Revolution in New Russia, and all other options are the drain
          Power to the advice! Taking into account the mistakes of the USSR, there is a chance to build a viable socialist state!
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Kasym
        Kasym 25 September 2014 18: 02
        +3
        Balbes_I. The author writes that "the analysis confirms that the idea of ​​Novorossia is being dumped."
        And then he writes that "we will get Ukraine with a zombie population and neo-Nazis in power" and "will place NATO and missile defense bases on its territory."
        I think that the GDP in the FSB or the administration is set by good analysts (recent years have shown this) who have calculated all the options. And what then the GDP will have rating and support from the people also calculated. Also calculated what will be the mood among the masses. GDP in Munich explained why NATO’s eastward expansion is no longer acceptable — Russia's security will be jeopardized (flight time, etc.).
        All this suggests that the GDP of Novorosiya drain promises a bunch of troubles. Therefore, it will "fight". Troops are not allowed - why spoil relations between Russians and Ukrainians. Therefore, there are two options:
        1. Having stopped the bloodshed, strangle "economically". Time and situation in the country against the Kiev authorities - a bankrupt country without energy reserves for wintering, with a stopped industry. Nobody is in a hurry to help the "square", and then there is the internal showdown. The population is slipping into poverty. It seems to me that the situation in Tajikistan is even better.
        2. If the carnage begins again, then give the militia money (there already the military commission has already opened). How and to whom it is now pointless to discuss. And then it may turn out that the militia will be in Lviv (I think after this winter, and these will only be glad to get rid of the Kiev authorities, driving their relatives to the slaughter).
        I don't know, maybe there are other options. But my "analysis" about the drain of Novorosiya is different.
    2. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 25 September 2014 09: 14
      -1
      Yes, this sofa geopolitician looks like brains vraskoryachku: he began "for peace", and at the end sang "good health"! The political games around Novorossiya are not fully understood, but the oligarchs' ears stick out, as no one tries to hide them! But the matter here is complicated by the fact that the people of Novorossia will never forgive the blood shed by the national gadami, and the fact that the people of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have recently called the Ukroverrmacht says a lot. arms in hand, and now they won't let them sell their victories! You cannot stop the war by betraying, you can only suspend it for a while!
      1. semen777
        semen777 25 September 2014 09: 45
        +7
        That’s the hell that people with weapons will have to decide everything, and without the support of the Moscow office. Politics are dirty, they can turn this way and that, taking into account selfish interests, but descendants will judge these tricks, and now, God forbid so that the guys have the brains and the bravery to survive and decide the fate of New Russia correctly, and not make a mistake in choosing a leader by uniting in a single fist. And the author put forward a good plan, and why not?
      2. SPACE
        SPACE 25 September 2014 10: 41
        0
        Quote: kartalovkolya
        The political games around New Russia are not fully understood,

        They split the Crimea and, in addition to everything important, created a precedent for the people of the rest of Ukraine, as a good example of what they have before and after, this time. Secondly, in contrast to the fascist fire of Maidan tires, they lit the sacred flame of the liberation war in Novorossia, which stopped the aggression of fascism and generated two new critical cracks in the form of the LPR and the DPR on the non-adjacent. And which can no longer be repaired ... but the expansion of which, with a ceasefire, was temporarily stopped in order to end the war, to give Svidomo and invisible time to reflect on what they had done and to realize what was happening. And the most important thing is to translate the conflict into a political channel, where economically and in the legal field they will put pressure on a sovereign and junta with a sober argument in the form of questions about Boeing, Odessa, the deaths of civilians and military personnel, a destroyed economy and country, Western aid and integration with The EU, on the one hand, and the Army of Generals of Cold and Hunger, on the other, until you are forced to change leadership and federalize the former in Ukraine, well, after that you can try cutting fat into slices in Scotland, you want Maloro plain, like New Russia, and want to welcome into the Russian Federation ... In the end, not all opoloumeli Ukraine ... just in time the necessary forces will come in movement ...
        1. DRA-88
          DRA-88 25 September 2014 12: 28
          +2
          Quote: SPACE
          about the expansion of which, with a truce, was temporarily stopped in order to end the war, to give Svidomo and invisible time to think about what they had done and realize what was happening

          Svidomo do not realize anything, for that they are Svidomo, and will seek revenge
          Quote: SPACE
          put pressure on a junta that is independent and sober in the form of questions about Boeing, Odessa, civilian deaths

          Yes, the junta and their patrons in the west do not care about your questions!
          Quote: SPACE
          until forced to change leadership

          to leave the junta from power is to sign a death sentence for your crimes! the junta will gnaw at the earth with its teeth, but it will not go away from power!
          Quote: SPACE
          Well, after that you can try how to cut fat into slices in Scotland

          But this is definitely unscientific fiction!

          PS. With Svidomity you can talk only from a position of strength!
          I repeat: " Winners are not judged !!! "
          1. SPACE
            SPACE 25 September 2014 20: 30
            0
            Quote: DRA-88
            Svidomo do not realize anything, for that they are Svidomo, and will seek revenge

            Not everyone there is such, there are duped, frightened, helpless ... For revenge you need funds, which are not, they could not now, nor can they ever.
            Quote: DRA-88
            Yes, the junta and their patrons in the west do not care about your questions!

            Quote: DRA-88
            to leave the junta from power is to sign a death sentence for your crimes! the junta will gnaw at the earth with its teeth, but it will not go away from power!

            How is it that everything is contradictory for you, does it matter or a death sentence? The decline of industry, the collapse of the economy, lack of energy, a general decline in the standard of living of people, etc. and do not care about these questions?
            Quote: DRA-88
            But this is definitely unscientific fiction!

            Crimea too?
            Quote: DRA-88
            With svidomites you can only talk from a position of strength! I repeat: "Winners are not judged !!!"

            The power can be different, it can be soft and not military ... Nowadays other times, they do not judge the absolute winners, because there is nobody.
            Z.Y. There are desires, but there is reality, do not confuse one with the other.
    3. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 25 September 2014 10: 32
      +5
      It is time for New Russia and its patriots to start their game
      The problem with Ukraine, for Putin and co. in a different. While for the West, apparently, structural changes in Ukraine are important today. Westerners, perhaps, would really like to make “anti-Russia” out of Ukraine in the long run. Not in the sense that a country hostile to Russia, which is hosting NATO bases and pursuing an aggressive policy. Usually this scenario is often spoken in Russia. More likely that nand the West would like to demonstrate another possible model of the development of the “post-Soviet Russian world” using the example of Ukraineif you use Russian terminology. In a manner they could seek to create an alternative to the development model of modern Russia. If so, then this is perhaps even more dangerous for Moscow than the likelihood of NATO bases appearing in Ukraine. Because an alternative development model over the medium-term historical distance is a constant threat to relations between Moscow and its own population. Today, a weak Ukraine does not raise any questions, the attitude of the Russian public towards it, let's say, is more patronizing. This is understandable, the standard of living in Russia is higher, the state is stronger. As for overall efficiency, today this does not bother much of the Russian population. But if Ukraine with the help of the West can suddenly become a more efficient state, then Moscow is in a rather difficult situation. An analogy with the formation of the image of a successful South Korea involuntarily suggests itself, although, of course, such an analogy seems to be a little strained. And all this despite the fact that Russia will not be able to completely isolate itself from Ukraine. XNUMXIt starts, in the future, any comparison unfavorable for it with Ukrainian reality will have a negative impact on the attitude of society towards the authorities. Of course, there is every reason to doubt the success of such a hypothetical project. Although it is now clear that the new authorities in Kiev are undergoing very significant reforms with clearly expressed external support, it is even possible to make urgent recommendations. For example, Georgian experts like Kakha Bendukizde were invited to carry out reforms. They have carried out important institutional changes in Georgia. First of all, we are talking about the reform of the legal system, as well as large-scale economic liberalization. The latter circumstance involves the rejection of paternalism in matters of gas prices and the allocation of subsidies, for example, of an inefficient coal industry. These are all very painful issues, but the current extreme situation gives the Ukrainian authorities a chance to resolve them. Moreover, they need Western loans and support. At the same time, who in Ukraine today will abandon the idea of ​​getting ahead of their now implacable opponent - Russia. By and large, the West imposes competition on state development projects for Russia. Ukraine is the future training ground for such competition. Moreover, the struggle will take place for specific results in the living standards of the population. So far, Ukraine is an outsider here, but no one knows what will happen next. In the end, it’s always easier to push off the bottom. Russia will have to defend its results in a conflict with the West, the threat of falling energy prices and stagflation that has already begun. www.asiakz.com/beskonechnaya-ukrainskaya-drama
      1. DRA-88
        DRA-88 25 September 2014 12: 40
        0
        Quote: Alibekulu
        This means that in the future, any comparison unfavorable for it with Ukrainian reality will have a negative impact on the attitude of society towards power

        And we will compare not only with the outskirts, but with New Russia!


        Quote: Alibekulu
        By and large, the West imposes competition on state development projects for Russia. Ukraine is the future training ground for such competition. Moreover, the struggle will take place for specific results in the living standards of the population.


        But this thesis is reinforced concrete !!!
        And God forbid the Russian authorities to lose this fight!
    4. Giant thought
      Giant thought 25 September 2014 12: 32
      0
      New Russia should not be merged in any case, otherwise Russia will come to an end, and the fifth column will celebrate the victory over the Russian people, this cannot be allowed.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. Kite
      Kite 25 September 2014 17: 50
      0
      He contradicts the facts! New Russia did not sign a special status and this was repeatedly repeated by its leaders. The leaders of New Russia in the parliament do not sit. They meet with Ku-h-mine in Minsk, but there they are talking about a truce and withdrawal of the heavy. technicians
  2. Roman1970
    Roman1970 25 September 2014 08: 48
    +2
    Here is an author under the name Couch General ... Well, the name fits. Why thicken paints? While the war is not up to global plans. And upon gaining independence, there is every chance of becoming a normal state. There are resources. You can trade with Russia.
  3. Balamyt
    Balamyt 25 September 2014 08: 49
    +2
    How simple it is in words!
  4. Loner_53
    Loner_53 25 September 2014 08: 50
    +3
    New Russia to be! The drain of New Russia The people of Russia will not forgive! soldier hi
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 25 September 2014 08: 59
      +2
      Quote: Loner_53
      The drain of New Russia The people of Russia will not forgive!

      Let it be to you. At one time, the drain of Greater Russia was swallowed.
  5. shinobi
    shinobi 25 September 2014 08: 51
    +1
    General, I’d go to the sofa already. Analitie pancake. By next summer, everything will change dramatically. The junta will not survive the winter unambiguously. And there it will be seen.
  6. vorobey
    vorobey 25 September 2014 08: 53
    +3
    the author wouldn’t be carried away by you .. you begin to contradict yourself and ... repeat yourself .. then you shout about the independence of Novorossia and then right below bring in terms of the confederation negotiations.

    I suspect that the key ones are ... loudly thrown scam and merge ..

    The third paragraph of your plan, you cross out the first two ... and offer to start first ..

    I do not understand you..
  7. Veteran of the Red Army
    Veteran of the Red Army 25 September 2014 08: 54
    0
    I see the leaders of New Russia - Mozgovoy, Gubarev - the desire to fix everything, but I don’t see a clear, coherent plan of action.


    Here the question begs: to whom, how and how to help?
    To the extent possible, Russia helps the people with humanitarian aid.
    1. Separatist
      Separatist 25 September 2014 14: 27
      0
      The army of the DPR and LPR without the help of the Russian Federation will never withstand the APU with PMCs. "To whom, how and how to help?" Politicians and strategists need strong ones. The cleansing of Donbass from Nazi trash broke off abruptly near Mariupol (the capture was inevitable, like the collapse of the Armed Forces of Ukraine), advisers from the Abama region pushed Poroshenko to declare an indefinite truce. That's it, we've arrived. It is clear that the ceasefire is not being respected, and now I am sitting and writing in Donetsk under mortar shelling by the Ukrainian Armed Forces from the airport. But the matter does not go any further than responding to fire. And now the Armed Forces of Ukraine have received official permission to "shoot back". Those. they used to shell Donetsk and other settlements with impunity, Novorossia periodically responded, and the Ukrainian media buzzed that Novorossia was violating the pepemirie! omg, what to do ?! But now, with official permission, we sit for the second day under artillery shelling, 2-3 times an hour arrives from different directions.
      At the moment, the main problem of New Russia in the absence of a politically clever reason to start full-scale hostilities, another counterattack.
  8. Flinky
    Flinky 25 September 2014 08: 55
    +1
    Elmuridism again.
  9. avt
    avt 25 September 2014 08: 58
    0
    “The analysis of recent events confirms the gloomy guesses: the idea of ​​Greater Novorossia is being actively poured out." - Again! ??? How many times in a row? The title of the sofa is not a joke pseudonym.
  10. Akvadra
    Akvadra 25 September 2014 09: 01
    0
    The article at the level of analysis of bench grandmothers - all drug addicts and prostitutes, but you need to do like this and like this ...
  11. Bronik
    Bronik 25 September 2014 09: 02
    +2
    My minus of this article, some facts are turned inside out, some assumptions of the author are presented as axioms.
  12. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 25 September 2014 09: 02
    +3
    And if there were independent people independent of the puppeteers in the Novorossia’s leadership, it is clear that Novorossia needs to have its own general line of the future, try by all means to disown pressure from one side and the other, but is this possible at the moment.
  13. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 25 September 2014 09: 03
    +5
    Yes, there will be no discharge of New Russia .. too much blood has been spilled and the line of no return has already been passed ... It takes time and patience (I consider Kiev to be the main goal) .. And here is a bit of humor with meaning .. laughing
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 25 September 2014 11: 09
      0
      You are right there will be no drain of Novorossiya. Because there will be no new Russia. This piece of land is divided into Donetsk and Luhansk territories, definitely not Novorossia. and in three years the elections in Russia, the favorite of all "patriots" of the VO, will appoint Dimona, and he will go to his daughters. By the way, merging what could become Novorossia, it seems at the same time exchanged Syria.
  14. vsdvs
    vsdvs 25 September 2014 09: 04
    +1
    The whole article rests on the main words: I can only judge this by news feeds and comments.
  15. doctor
    doctor 25 September 2014 09: 04
    +2
    The army of New Russia has a clear task to take Kiev. All talk about draining just a fake.
    1. divangeneral
      25 September 2014 09: 07
      +2
      But do you personally judge based on what?
  16. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 07
    +2
    Quote: Doctor
    The army of New Russia has a clear task to take Kiev. All talk about draining just a fake.

    tell me from marmot
  17. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 08
    0
    Quote: bronik
    My minus of this article, some facts are turned inside out, some assumptions of the author are presented as axioms.


    I wonder what specifically turned inside out?
  18. ed65b
    ed65b 25 September 2014 09: 08
    +3
    Only for this we need the whole southeast and not two areas.
  19. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 10
    0
    Quote: vorobey
    the author wouldn’t be carried away by you .. you begin to contradict yourself and ... repeat yourself .. then you shout about the independence of Novorossia and then right below bring in terms of the confederation negotiations.

    I suspect that the key ones are ... loudly thrown scam and merge ..

    The third paragraph of your plan, you cross out the first two ... and offer to start first ..

    I do not understand you..


    confederation is independence. See the definition of confederation in the dictionary.
    it’s only smart independence, legally justified and guaranteed
    so there are no contradictions
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 25 September 2014 09: 19
      +2
      Quote: divangeneral
      confederation is independence.


      you yourself would first understand ... to achieve what goals they need an alliance with Kiev ...

      Quote: divangeneral
      legally sound and guaranteed


      by whom....
  20. maxxdesign
    maxxdesign 25 September 2014 09: 12
    0
    Yes, it seems to me that these papers signed on the armistice are nothing more than just pieces of paper ... think for yourself, who signed them .... the former president of Ukraine and the representative of an officially unrecognized republic? and the shelling as it was and continues ... and I don't think that only the Ukrainians continue to shoot ... it's just that this "truce" was started to reduce the noise in the media, at the expense of regrouping ukrovoysk ... I don't think there is something large-scale left ... a lame beaten dog can only make the last jump, and then he will not jump
  21. Signature
    Signature 25 September 2014 09: 12
    +2
    I’m going to an experiment: I’ll explain without hesitation the main thing that I always wanted to talk about. And let's see what happens.
    For me personally (as an involuntary resident of Ukraine and a "Soviet underdog" in the way of thinking, moreover, to the core of a Russian-speaking person), it's already three months old that Russia "threw" the South-East. This is for a start. That the "drain" will continue - it also seems obvious (no matter how and whoever from time to time cries out joyfully - in desperate expectation of a miracle - that now everything is good and they (in the Kremlin, apparently) completely decided never again not to “drain.” But a capitalist country simply cannot (is not capable of) “never to drain anyone.”
    Further. Extremely always “nervous” and uniquely surprising is one wonderful phrase, usually uttered on all television debates: that, supposedly, the current fascists are not fighting against Ukraine - they are fighting against Russia in Ukraine. ”But civilians are not being killed in Russia (thank God , of course!), and Ukraine. ”Personally, I (as a" inveterate scoop "do not even care whether we are talking about murdered Ukrainians or Hondurans / Syrians / Russians (forgive the blasphemy) ... The main thing - and the most unacceptable - is kill the defenseless. ”It is clear that no one wants to die for anyone (only special people, which are always and everywhere - a few), but in Soviet times it was not customary to bargain and dress when it came to human life. And one more thing: if" you merge ", - why all the time to persuade both the" merged ", and yourself, that" in fact "you are fulfilling your knightly duty selflessly and to the end? Moreover, the truth (so it is customary to think) - salvation of even the most attractive lies.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 25 September 2014 09: 23
      0
      interesting opinion but unproven ... words of the word ...
      1. Signature
        Signature 25 September 2014 09: 47
        0
        Here for these words and I’m sitting without work - in a quiet and peaceful Ukraine, of course (I can’t be proud of material security). And you - besides words - have any other reasons (presumably)?
        The question is rhetorical. The discussion is not attractive: the positions diverge too diametrically (and the circumstances of life, too, judging by your tone), Mr. Army General.
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 25 September 2014 09: 53
          +2
          Quote: Signatur
          And you - besides words - have any other reasons (presumably)?


          know how to endure ... wait a little longer ... Only Southeast Russia is not needed ...

          Kiev is the mother of Russian cities ... let the spiders and spiders mate now ... then we’ll see who and whom merged ... Until the people of Ukraine see their own eyes ...
          1. Signature
            Signature 25 September 2014 10: 12
            +3
            I can not stand and I do not expect help from anyone (I don’t accept yours: I don’t like the tone).
            The people of Ukraine are not blind, but weak (as well as every nation). And it’s not the people who are running around here and there with all sorts of dragons. And you, apparently, are more interested in looking at what will hatch from a poisonous egg than simply getting rid of the root cause of all misfortunes before it turns into universal evil. Apparently, the sports and gambling interest of an avid chess player ...

            I ask: do not answer (if this does not require excessive psychological stress from you).
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Eragon
      Eragon 25 September 2014 10: 12
      +2
      Personally to me (as an involuntary resident of Ukraine

      I will answer you.
      To begin with: in politics there are no concepts of "truth" and "untruth", there is "advantageous" and "disadvantageous". It's sad, but politics is dirty. Further, when, to whom and what did Russia promise? There is no legitimate power in Novorossiya, the actual one is in the stage of formation, with the inevitable undercover mud. With whom to talk and to whom to promise? Why should Russia solve the problems of the population of another country, whose residents for 23 years have not thrown a finger on a finger in order to somehow get closer to Russia? You can start to figure it out yourself.
      It seems to me that the main trouble of the people of Ukraine is that everyone "owes" them. America, Europe, Russia. They must not do something themselves, but they must do "good". Well, well, as they can - they do it. And do not cry that you are in pain and again everything is wrong. You yourself so wanted. You were the one who laughed in front of the TV, looking at the fistfighters in the Rada, looking at the paralysis of power. You were interested in the "melodramas" with impeachments, "detectives" with Gongadze (by the way, they forgot something about him, and how many years they yelled), with Yushchenko. You said that: this is all at the top, it does not concern us.
      Well, you convinced everyone that you are nobody.
      In reality, those who can be called real Ukrainians who support their country are local Nazis and the militia. They have different goals and methods, but they have indifference, goals, they try to achieve these goals. They do not wait, they do. Hatred and love still have to be earned.
      It just so happened that I’m like in a joke: relatives at home, this is me abroad. Mom, brother, sisters, in short, they all live in Ukraine. And they didn't "do" the same. And now they are worried. And still they are waiting for everything to be done for them. Apparently, there is still little grief, not enough for the people to understand - no one will do anything for them for them.
      1. Signature
        Signature 25 September 2014 10: 39
        +3
        They misunderstood "involuntary": just after the fall of the Soviet Socialist Republic, I didn't want to live anywhere at all (hence the "involuntary resident").
        Russia certainly owes nothing to anyone if it has not promised anything. The difference is that there was no need to promise (in March (if you remember).

        I do not like Ukrainians or someone there on a national basis and generally do not accept discussions about nationalities and nations, since all this is speculative (that is, always useful to someone) nonsense. For me, there are normal and abnormal people. But normal people (women, old people, children; note: I categorically do not classify men here, although there are also male mental invalids), you should feel sorry for them anyway (if you consider yourself a civilized individual (do not see a hitting you personally: I I personally don’t think about you personally at all (in order not to be a naughty rash person - for your excessively felt passage).
        And don't write either. Or minus and write "I categorically reject" (then save your face and show your point of view (which, by the way, I'm not going to encroach on).
        Yes, I organically hate Yushchenko, Poroshenok, Timoshenok and all (regardless of nationality) "dirty politicians" (practically your terminology).
        And do not generalize everything to you - potatoes and pineapples, or you can be generalized with bulk and makarevichs.
        1. Eragon
          Eragon 25 September 2014 10: 55
          0
          You are a strange man. "Don't touch me, don't answer, or I'll get nasty." Why did you write a comment?
          So that everyone knows what you are untouchable, or that there was an occasion to cheat someone?
          1. Signature
            Signature 25 September 2014 11: 16
            0
            And "who is not strange?" ...

            You again misinterpreted: the comment was not written for you personally.
            It’s unlikely.
            Just sometimes I want to do (how would it be more delicate?) A beat in physiognomy (definitely not angelic).
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Eragon
              Eragon 25 September 2014 12: 25
              0
              Just sometimes I want to do (how would it be more delicate?) A beat in physiognomy (definitely not angelic).

              Respect hi
              But then you are a little off the mark. Physiognomy and not only beat in the Donbass. Volunteer for any side will be happy.
              1. Signature
                Signature 25 September 2014 12: 45
                +1
                In the Donbass, there is only physiognomy on the one hand, and on the other, what is called an excessive abuse of truth and mother nature. Yes, and non-angelic everything (!) Is also concentrated on one side only (apparently, this does not seem so obvious to your objective look).

                And yes: consider that the verbal duel by you unconditionally and with a clear advantage is finally won!
                1. Signature
                  Signature 26 September 2014 06: 45
                  +1
                  As of Friday morning, 26.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX:
                  I hope, Eragon, you understand that I do not consider you a winner either in a polemic with the AUTHOR of the publication, or even in a dispute with me: the information you operate is secondary, the desire to deeply or "polyvariantly" interpret it - you, apparently, absent, as, in fact, and the desire to understand "vis-a-vis". Apparently, you are one of those whole natures whose romance with yourself never ends.
        2. aleks 62
          aleks 62 25 September 2014 12: 31
          +2
          ..... Russia certainly owes nothing to anyone if it has not promised anything. The difference is that there was no need to promise (in March (if you remember) .....
          ..... Ochchchchchen correctly noted ...... "We do not abandon the Russians ....." ...... Make a plate with large letters and put it on the table (work) of someone .... ..I think, if it were not for these words, then everything would be calm where the war is now ..... After all, people BELIEVED !!!! hi
          1. Signature
            Signature 26 September 2014 06: 43
            +1
            As of Friday morning, 26.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX:
            You, ALEKS62- just an embodied confirmation that it makes sense to trust the Russians, because among them there are especially good people who want and know how to understand everything "first-hand"; that is, both the head and the heart - they all have this in their human place.
    4. Signature
      Signature 26 September 2014 06: 47
      0
      As of Friday morning, 26.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX:
      Well, well, the courageous desire to accept the truth as it is won - without silence, flowery verbal tricks and "erasure" of unpleasant details .... The score is modest - approximately 4: 3 (according to other sources, 12: 7 - in favor of that same; the "statistical" level gives a ratio of 53:41; processing the data of the "fourth row" requires more time, but will not significantly change anything).
  22. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 12
    +3
    Quote: shinobi
    General, I’d go to the sofa already. Analitie pancake. By next summer, everything will change dramatically. The junta will not survive the winter unambiguously. And there it will be seen.

    don't be rude, man. general and so on the couch
    if you have your own, special opinion, do not bother to express it to others
  23. Wolka
    Wolka 25 September 2014 09: 12
    +1
    Ukraine without a dad can’t, it’s a led nation, because it was already, the Commonwealth was speaking, but let’s recall the Hetmanism, but nothing good, that’s why Catherine the Great insisted and ended this at the time, forcing herself to swear allegiance to Russia and, it seems, was not mistaken, she was a native European how to not know the problems of Europe and Russia, the ability to see not from one side, but from different sides is a talent, and it is not given to everyone ...
  24. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 15
    +1
    Quote: Roman1970
    Here is an author under the name Couch General ... Well, the name fits. Why thicken paints? While the war is not up to global plans. And upon gaining independence, there is every chance of becoming a normal state. There are resources. You can trade with Russia.


    what do you care about the name of the author?
    as for the preparation of plans: without plans you can’t get anywhere.
    we must still have a plan on the shore so that everyone knows why they shed blood
  25. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 16
    0
    Quote: Flinky
    Elmuridism again.

    Murid in the issue of New Russia has an insider. here he unfortunately knows that pies
  26. Alfizik
    Alfizik 25 September 2014 09: 17
    +3
    Lord, what a mess! In every paragraph, in every point of the contradiction. Yes, and what kind of term is this - "drain"? New Russia is not a "filling", and we are not a toilet. Grabbing a checker and also jumping, jumping ... - it's stupid. There are other actions, subtle, thoughtful. The author's worries about Novorossiya are understandable, but ideas should be strategically verified. Go farther today, the militias - they are aggressors, there is an even greater mess in the country, the UN and NATO will join on legal grounds. And will the tired militias pull off a protracted war on "foreign territory", far from home? And the junta now has not only a big mess and problems, but also "sprayed". Today it is the junta in the role of the aggressor on foreign territory. Patience and building up ... Next year it will be over. And so far Russia can only warm up Novorossiya, including with gas.
  27. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 19
    0
    Quote: Alfizik
    Lord, what a mess! In every paragraph, in every point of the contradiction. Yes, and what kind of term is this - "drain"? New Russia is not a "filling", and we are not a toilet. Grabbing a checker and also jumping, jumping ... - it's stupid. There are other actions, subtle, thoughtful. The author's worries about Novorossiya are understandable, but ideas should be strategically verified. Go farther today, the militias - they are aggressors, there is an even greater mess in the country, the UN and NATO will join on legal grounds. And will the tired militias pull off a protracted war on "foreign territory", far from home? And the junta now has not only a big mess and problems, but also "sprayed". Today it is the junta in the role of the aggressor on foreign territory. Patience and building up ... Next year it will be over. And so far Russia can only warm up Novorossiya, including with gas.


    justify the presence of contradictions and confusion or do not rush words
    1. Alfizik
      Alfizik 25 September 2014 09: 36
      0
      And I don’t rush. I have already written that I understand your concern, feelings, I myself am, and I am completely on your side and support you in your aspirations, but in order to substantiate it will take an article even larger than yours. No time. I expressed my opinion, and if you do not like criticism, you should read the commentary carefully. It contains the rationale. Just match with your thoughts. But what a good reason to write another article, so to speak "in the footsteps ..." The main contradiction ... if you want victory - think, work, and do not cut the air with a sword. And in any case - but pasaran!
  28. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 25 September 2014 09: 19
    +2
    To argue the case of politicians, but the main thing is that they do not forget that the people of Novorossiya will decide their own fate and they will not accept any "plums" and it is possible that the Compromisers will not be able to return from Minsk to Donetsk and Lugansk! New Russia to be!
  29. VadimL
    VadimL 25 September 2014 09: 21
    -1
    Article minus. The analysis is very superficial and weak. And the forecast - in general, is more like a set of wishes and a little real.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 25 September 2014 11: 17
      +1
      You, too, did not bother with a special analysis.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 22
    0
    Quote: vorobey
    Quote: divangeneral
    confederation is independence.


    you yourself would first understand ... to achieve what goals they need an alliance with Kiev ...

    Quote: divangeneral
    legally sound and guaranteed


    by whom....


    justified and guaranteed by a confederate agreement.
    union with Kiev? with the fascist, he certainly is not needed. but with cleansed of the Nazis-need
    don't put a cart in front of the horse just
    but you still need to know on the shore where you are going so as not to get lost
  32. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 25
    +1
    Quote: kartalovkolya
    Yes, this sofa geopolitician looks like brains vraskoryachku: he began "for peace", and at the end sang "good health"! The political games around Novorossiya are not fully understood, but the oligarchs' ears stick out, as no one tries to hide them! But the matter here is complicated by the fact that the people of Novorossia will never forgive the blood shed by the national gadami, and the fact that the people of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have recently called the Ukroverrmacht says a lot. arms in hand, and now they won't let them sell their victories! You cannot stop the war by betraying, you can only suspend it for a while!


    don't be rude, Kolya
    if you are not able to understand someone else’s thought, this does not mean that someone else’s thought does not make sense
  33. Eragon
    Eragon 25 September 2014 09: 28
    +1
    Somehow the author famously divided what is also called Ukraine. But he just "forgot", for example, about Transcarpathian Rus, with the Rusyns, who directly declare that they only get along with Russia. And in Galicia, by no means all "maydanuts" and anti-Russians. Most, but not overwhelming. The author suggests that if, for example, an arm is wounded, it is festering, then there is no need to heal, you just need to immediately amputate it. And if the head hurts, then what, put a tourniquet on the neck? In Galicia and central Ukraine, it is necessary to do the same thing that they have been doing with the rest of Ukraine for 23 years, only with the opposite sign. What I agree with is the confederation. If you like it - we will live together, if not - the road is like a tablecloth. But who will need them? To support and feel sorry for the mad in the madhouse is one thing, but to take the psychos to your home is quite another.
  34. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 28
    0
    Quote: vorobey
    interesting opinion but unproven ... words of the word ...

    what are you talking about?
  35. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 31
    0
    Quote: Eragon
    Somehow the author famously divided what is also called Ukraine. But he just "forgot", for example, about Transcarpathian Rus, with the Rusyns, who directly declare that they only get along with Russia. And in Galicia, by no means all "maydanuts" and anti-Russians. Most, but not overwhelming. The author suggests that if, for example, an arm is injured, festering, then there is no need to heal, you just need to immediately amputate it. And if the head hurts, then what, put a tourniquet on the neck? In Galicia and central Ukraine, one should do the same thing that they have been doing with the rest of Ukraine for all 23 years, only with the opposite sign. What I agree with is the confederation. If you like it - we will live together, if not - the road is like a tablecloth. But who will need them? Supporting and pitying the mad in the madhouse is one thing, but taking the psychos to your home is quite another.

    about the fact that we need a confederation with the possibility of exit.
    let them try to live together, if possible (which I doubt very much after the civil war)
    do not like it - go away.
    and as for the division, this dashing division is historically determined by how and where in Ukraine Galichina came from and who her heroes are.
    as for the Rusyns - they decide for themselves in a referendum.
    only for some reason it seems to me that they will choose a reunion with Europe
    although they decide and only them
  36. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 35
    0
    Quote: kartalovkolya
    To argue the case of politicians, but the main thing is that they do not forget that the people of Novorossiya will decide their own fate and they will not accept any "plums" and it is possible that the Compromisers will not be able to return from Minsk to Donetsk and Lugansk! New Russia to be!


    Novorossia can be strangled by our own Judas, having closed the military organization, for example
    canceling humconvoys
    not supplying gas in winter
    etc.
    such a blackmail Strelkova and removed, and put those who sign all kinds of paper
  37. Elena Urzhumova
    Elena Urzhumova 25 September 2014 09: 35
    +2
    I think the Divan General is right. To go, you need to know where and where to go. You need to see a clear goal ahead, then the path is easier and there will be no throwing. And, since the war, beat with all his might, and not look back from the side standing (you can, you can’t ...) This is the choice of NO Russia, and only she must choose her future! And whoever undertook to help, help, and do not spread the porridge on a plate, or aside. In any situation, God will reward everyone deservedly.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 25 September 2014 10: 02
      +1
      First of all, rushes should not be on the part of Russia, as well as a vision of clear prospects and awareness of goals in Novorossia and with Novorossia, which, without a doubt, is an ally of Russia. If there were no leaders in Novorossia, they would have to be found from Russia, if not for talented commanders in Novorossia, they would have to be sent from Russia. For the rest, there is the most important thing, the loyalty of the local population, their desire to be with Russia. There should be no question of flirting with the deceitful America on the subject of "lifting sanctions" for "concessions" on liabilities, and even more so, surrendering positions on Novorossiya. I hope this does not happen. Ukraine is the historical part of Russia, its root part, and it can be either Russian or anti-Russian, the third is not given here. Either Bandera Dill will be DESTROYED, or this enemy will strengthen, and this will be a very serious problem on our border, threatening to spill over into the collapse of Russia itself.
  38. Signature
    Signature 25 September 2014 09: 36
    +3
    Why take revenge on the author for his dissatisfaction with the state of affairs that he - admittedly, completely bravely and frankly - described: obviously he did not personally do these things so ... unpretentious.
    If you want him to "think your thoughts" - but then he should also have a symmetrical right. And, frankly, rudeness is the credo of Censor.net? Is not it so?
    I am ashamed to be like banderlogs.

    The author, I welcome your courage! Such courage does honor to any author!
    1. Signature
      Signature 26 September 2014 06: 38
      +2
      As of Friday morning, 26.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX:
      AUTHOR, thanks for publishing! There is not even the slightest doubt that you have tested on yourself a long time ago that obtaining the truth or "sowing" it is by no means profitable or safe. But it's great that Authors like you, nevertheless, meet in this life (on the reader's path)!
  39. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 38
    0
    Quote: Alfizik
    And I don’t rush. I have already written that I understand your concern, feelings, I myself am, and I am completely on your side and support you in your aspirations, but in order to substantiate it will take an article even larger than yours. No time. I expressed my opinion, and if you do not like criticism, you should read the commentary carefully. It contains the rationale. Just match with your thoughts. But what a good reason to write another article, so to speak "in the footsteps ..." The main contradiction ... if you want victory - think, work, and do not cut the air with a sword. And in any case - but pasaran!


    That's your business. everyone let him be his opinion
  40. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 09: 50
    +1
    Quote: Eragon
    Somehow the author famously divided what is also called Ukraine. But he just "forgot", for example, about Transcarpathian Rus, with the Rusyns, who directly declare that they only get along with Russia. And in Galicia, by no means all "maydanuts" and anti-Russians. Most, but not overwhelming. The author suggests that if, for example, an arm is wounded, it is festering, then there is no need to heal, you just need to immediately amputate it. And if the head hurts, then what, put a tourniquet on the neck? In Galicia and central Ukraine, it is necessary to do the same thing that they have been doing with the rest of Ukraine for 23 years, only with the opposite sign. What I agree with is the confederation. If you like it - we will live together, if not - the road is like a tablecloth. But who will need them? To support and feel sorry for the mad in the madhouse is one thing, but to take the psychos to your home is quite another.

    your logic is clear
    but the catch is this: who will "re-educate" the Galicians? you? Zakharchenko? Who?
    sorry, if the USSR with all its resources, the KGB and so on. could not "re-educate" them, then who can do it today? Russia? on what basis?
    will someone on the remnants of Ukraine do this?
    if you look in retrospect, then the accession of Galicia is the root cause of the appearance of Bandera and the withdrawal from us in 1991 of ALL of Ukraine. and the emergence of great ukrov.
    and what is happening there now
    I must admit that, like with the Crimea, all these fortunes about accessions were a mistake and Galicia was returned back to Europe. they want it.
    and they are not on the road with us.
    and these lands for Russia are lost forever due to the fact that people are lost.
    and nothing can be done about it.
    1. Eragon
      Eragon 25 September 2014 11: 09
      0
      Quote: divangeneral
      but the catch is this: who will "re-educate" the Galicians?

      There is a new thing called propaganda. The "zapadentsy" have been engaged in it for 23 years. And before them, Hitler for 6 years "explained" to the Germans that they are a race of masters, and the rest are non-humans. And in the 45-50s, the same Germans were "explained" that their Fuhrer was very wrong. Who will be? Those who will win the junta. The surnames are still unknown. How - I already wrote. Reason - Nazism is bad.
      Another example. Until 1991, the population of the USSR sincerely believed that they live in the best country in the world and the best. Now they believe that communism is evil, and the Soviet Union prevented the rest of the world from living.
      The mountains have written books on mass management. The method is "newest".
  41. Begemot
    Begemot 25 September 2014 09: 51
    0
    Optimistically, of course, however, banderlogs are stupid, but at the level of animal reflexes they understand that Europe will not feed them, and therefore they seek to enslave the DPR and LPR, and at the same time keep Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Mariupol, etc.
  42. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 10: 02
    0
    Quote: avt
    “The analysis of recent events confirms the gloomy guesses: the idea of ​​Greater Novorossia is being actively poured out." - Again! ??? How many times in a row? The title of the sofa is not a joke pseudonym.


    it seems that VO has become a censor
  43. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 10: 11
    0
    Quote: Alfizik
    Lord, what a mess! In every paragraph, in every point of the contradiction. Yes, and what kind of term is this - "drain"? New Russia is not a "filling", and we are not a toilet. Grabbing a checker and also jumping, jumping ... - it's stupid. There are other actions, subtle, thoughtful. The author's worries about Novorossiya are understandable, but ideas should be strategically verified. Go farther today, the militias - they are aggressors, there is an even greater mess in the country, the UN and NATO will join on legal grounds. And will the tired militias pull off a protracted war on "foreign territory", far from home? And the junta now has not only a big mess and problems, but also "sprayed". Today it is the junta in the role of the aggressor on foreign territory. Patience and building up ... Next year it will be over. And so far Russia can only warm up Novorossiya, including with gas.


    firstly, why should the militias, having gone on the offensive further, be aggressors? legally they are citizens of Ukraine.
    citizens who are fighting against the fascist junta that came to power as a result of a coup.
    secondly, in regions that are still under the rule of the Natsiks, some local resistance could start - take the administration, fly the flag and seek military help from the DPR. here is the basis for moving to neighboring territories.
    as for the fact that nato will pull up. so it is already there.
    and if they introduce their troops, then the Russian Federation will be able to enter and its troops and Ukraine will be divided.
    the question is who will get what and where the dividing line will go.
    for me, a military section is a bad option, but a single fascist Ukraine with the ability to create a dirty bomb is even worse.
    so your arguments do not seem to me significant.
    1. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 25 September 2014 13: 24
      0
      Colleague! Your words are emotional, but nothing more. To step where and with what, is there enough strength and money for this?Is there at least an 2x multiple advantage for VSN in technology and l / s? Is there sufficient security for the B \ P and other property? Do you want the militia to get into the boilers? Thank God that there are real professionals in the BCH headquarters who didn’t allow hatreds. At one time, the Bolsheviks made a cavalry raid on Warsaw (hatreds), I hope you you know the story, I mean the consequences of this raid. You read the reports of the militia in Mariupol,they recognize the most serious losses for September.
  44. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 11: 09
    0
    Quote: semen777
    That’s the hell that people with weapons will have to decide everything, and without the support of the Moscow office. Politics are dirty, they can turn this way and that, taking into account selfish interests, but descendants will judge these tricks, and now, God forbid so that the guys have the brains and the bravery to survive and decide the fate of New Russia correctly, and not make a mistake in choosing a leader by uniting in a single fist. And the author put forward a good plan, and why not?


    Thank you for correctly understanding everything
  45. Gardamir
    Gardamir 25 September 2014 11: 25
    -1
    Still very simple. The liberals of Russia do not need a socialist New Russia. Humanitarian convoys are such a leash, which keep the appointees of Donetsk and Lugansk on a leash (I don’t even know what to call these territories. Not regions, not republics). Help is not convoys, but a full recovery of industry.
  46. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 11: 47
    +1
    Quote: Eragon
    Quote: divangeneral
    but the catch is this: who will "re-educate" the Galicians?

    There is a new thing called propaganda. The "zapadentsy" have been engaged in it for 23 years. And before them, Hitler for 6 years "explained" to the Germans that they are a race of masters, and the rest are non-humans. And in the 45-50s, the same Germans were "explained" that their Fuhrer was very wrong. Who will be? Those who will win the junta. The surnames are still unknown. How - I already wrote. Reason - Nazism is bad.
    Another example. Until 1991, the population of the USSR sincerely believed that they live in the best country in the world and the best. Now they believe that communism is evil, and the Soviet Union prevented the rest of the world from living.
    The mountains have written books on mass management. The method is "newest".

    yeah and what did this propaganda not affect the Galicians while they were part of the USSR?
    and at the first opportunity they faded from the USSR, seizing Ukraine?
    and who, by the way, do you think will have to conduct this propaganda in the Galicians? who exactly and in what ways?
    1. Eragon
      Eragon 25 September 2014 13: 35
      0
      yeah and what did this propaganda not affect the Galicians while they were part of the USSR?
      and at the first opportunity they faded from the USSR, seizing Ukraine?
      and who, by the way, do you think will have to conduct this propaganda in the Galicians? who exactly and in what ways?

      Everyone from the USSR slinked, compare the map of the USSR and Russia. Or did the rest of the 13 republics also be taken by Galicians?
      Who told you that you didn’t act? When the Union was all calm. And in the 23 of the year, a new generation has grown. I already wrote about the experiment. I repeat. The extras were told to the man about the white plate that it was black. He, of course, resisted, but after a short time he began to call ALL white objects black. So the obvious truth was easily turned over to the completely opposite.
      Who exactly? As soon as you name the composition of the government of New Russia within the borders of the 5-7 regions, I will also give you specific names. How? In the same ways that half of Ukraine was convinced that Russia is a senior enemy, and the United States is a great friend.
    2. Eragon
      Eragon 25 September 2014 13: 35
      0
      yeah and what did this propaganda not affect the Galicians while they were part of the USSR?
      and at the first opportunity they faded from the USSR, seizing Ukraine?
      and who, by the way, do you think will have to conduct this propaganda in the Galicians? who exactly and in what ways?

      Everyone from the USSR slinked, compare the map of the USSR and Russia. Or did the rest of the 13 republics also be taken by Galicians?
      Who told you that you didn’t act? When the Union was all calm. And in the 23 of the year, a new generation has grown. I already wrote about the experiment. I repeat. The extras were told to the man about the white plate that it was black. He, of course, resisted, but after a short time he began to call ALL white objects black. So the obvious truth was easily turned over to the completely opposite.
      Who exactly? As soon as you name the composition of the government of New Russia within the borders of the 5-7 regions, I will also give you specific names. How? In the same ways that half of Ukraine was convinced that Russia is a senior enemy, and the United States is a great friend.
  47. Ivan 63
    Ivan 63 25 September 2014 11: 50
    +2
    The author for the article is a solid 5, counterarguments of opponents are not accepted. This is (and maybe true) - a guide to action for our President and Government.
  48. divangeneral
    25 September 2014 11: 51
    0
    Quote: Gardamir
    You are right there will be no drain of Novorossiya. Because there will be no new Russia. This piece of land is divided into Donetsk and Luhansk territories, definitely not Novorossia. and in three years the elections in Russia, the favorite of all "patriots" of the VO, will appoint Dimona, and he will go to his daughters. By the way, merging what could become Novorossia, it seems at the same time exchanged Syria.


    now only true patriots, like Mozgovoy, or Strelkov, if he returns to the Donbass, can in autonomy, without Moscow, give a chance for the formation of New Russia.
    and the article - thoughts to help
    1. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 25 September 2014 13: 13
      0
      And how without Moscow they will do it (Mozgovoy and Strelkov)?Own funds or donations raised? With virtually destroyed infrastructure and industry? Politics is politics, and the economy is completely different. You cannot feed and warm people with slogans and appeals. Now New Russia has a long and difficult way to create statehood, primarily through the economy.
  49. pahom54
    pahom54 25 September 2014 12: 06
    +1
    “It's time for Novorossia and its patriots to start playing their own game. Rescuing drowning people is the work of the drowning people themselves! ..” ..

    New Russia and its patriots .... And the author still does not know what percentage of the fighting patriotic militias are from the population of the Luhansk region and the Donetsk region ???
    There they are, at our side, in Russia - well-fed, ruddy, the average age of 25-45 years, and littering with money, our money, which is given to them in a decent amount here, in Russia ... They don't want to fight - they fled to Russia, They do not want to work here either - they are paid decent allowances, they leave them for tea from the "master's" shoulder in stores - do not worry, mom!
    The day before yesterday, one was already full of face - for boorish behavior ...
    So what am I doing - who will save the New Russia ??? Those romantic enthusiasts who are already saving her and dying in full swing - now, today? ... But "these" fat hog eggs will be scratching and lapping Hank beer in Russia ??? Moreover, they have the audacity to declare: "We have a war going on there, and you got drunk here ..." ... Wow, damn it, logic - like Banana Obama or Yaytsenyukh - one to one!
    So the question arises - but on kuya are we such brothers ??? If the bases of NATO and missile defense were not put under the nose of Russia - and forge with it, this timeless one, even let it perish! But our men are not dragging themselves to the bottom ...
  50. falcon7942
    falcon7942 25 September 2014 12: 08
    -2
    Yes, really a sofa general! About the "drain of Novorossiya", "confederation", etc. smacks of "marshism". Complete military victory over the army of Ukraine is a great nonsense! Unfortunately, they have different mobilization potentials. 300 Spartans are good at Thermopylae pass, but on the plain they are doomed to destruction, regardless of motivation! The author would open the map and calculate the length of the front and compare it with the size of the army of Novorossiya. It is very difficult to hold a front of almost a thousand kilometers with troops of about 20.000 people. This is the same mistake that the ukroarmiya made; at the first stage of the punitive operation, the offensive was carried out without taking into account the situation on the flanks. It seems like there is progress and excellent. As a result, a counterattack in the Saur-Mogila area - a disruption in the supply of communications - "Yuzhny Kotel". The continuation of the offensive of the army of Novorossiya could lead to a similar scenario. Hence the stalemate and the beginning of negotiations, and from a very good position. I can cite one more historical example - Operation Bagration. At a certain point, Model transferred a fairly large number of equipment (tanks, self-propelled guns, guns of various calibers) from Army Group South Ukraine to the area of ​​the Rokosovsky front's offensive, but he could not correct the situation, because tanks without infantry support can only operate in the offensive. In defense, tanks cannot keep the front on their own. And the Wehrmacht infantry by that moment was tightly seated in the "Vitebsk", "Minsk" and "Bobruisk" boilers, and could not help Model. Counterattacks by tank units somewhat delayed the advance of Soviet troops, but all the same, Army Group Center completely disintegrated, and they could only stabilize the front on the Vistula, and even then for six months. Based on this, I believe that from a military point of view, the leadership of Novorossiya and Russia is acting correctly. Full withdrawal of ukroarmii from all positions within the administrative boundaries of the former Luhansk and Donetsk regions, a matter of several months. In any case, the army of Novorossiya has time to stabilize the front, build up forces in the necessary areas, normalize the work of the rear and a bunch of other "bonuses", not to mention its recognition as a "belligerent", which in the future gives Russia the right to move to "South Ossetian scenario", in the event of a new blitzkrieg. In general, neher "dissolve snot"!