Bandits Bandera again recognized as "heroes"

Regular “good news” came from independent Ukraine - the district administrative court of the city of Kiev recognized as lawful the decree of the ex-president of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko recognizing the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) as participants in the struggle for Ukraine’s independence and freedom. By this act, the Ukrainian court actually legitimized the so-called. Orange brown rematch.

The administration of Yanukovych has once again confirmed that it is not going to change the disastrous course of Westernization of Little Russia. And he does not want to part with even the most shameful phenomenon - the “glorification” of gangsters and murderers. By this, Yanukovych again betrayed his voters.

Natalya Vitrenko, the leader of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, was the plaintiff in this high-profile case; in 2010, she demanded that this decree be declared illegal. The gangsters and murderers, Hitler's accomplices, who participated in the massacres of Poles, Jews, Russians, were again legalized and can be “honored” at the state level, and not somewhere in the hangings and back streets of Galicia. According to the new mythology of the Second World War - the associates of Stepan Bandera, were so-called. "Third force", which "fought for the independence of the country." At the same time, their gangster “exploits” and terror are “forgotten”, and not only against “alien elements” - like Poles and Jews, but also against their fellow tribesmen. So during the so-called Volyn Massacre in 1943-1944, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army-OUN (b) in the territories of the Volyn-Podolia General District was destroyed, according to various estimates, from 50 to 80 thousand Poles, and approximately 20 thousand Ukrainians, the main blame for the death of which also lies on the organizations of Ukrainian nationalists. The facts of creation and subordination of the “Ukrainian” units, such as the Nachtigall, Roland battalions, the SS division “Galicia”, by the German command, their actions against the Red Army are forgotten. The fact that Berlin was never going to give Ukraine “independence” was forgotten, considering that its territory would be a “living space” for the German nation and did not hide this fact. That is, the leaders of the OUN-UPA consciously served the Germans, were their loyal dogs, and after the defeat of the Nazis began to look for other owners, including British and American intelligence.

To say that the Ukrainian court is independent and does not take into account the views of the presidential administration is not necessary. In addition, in the judicial and law enforcement system of Ukraine, the positions of supporters of the final “de-Sovietization” and “de-Russification” of Little Russia are quite strong.

Comments

[Superduck]

In general, even though I do not consider myself a fan of these organizations, but at the same time I note that the author is “deleted”.
You need to feel the difference between what you want to say and real events. The Kiev District Administrative Court is not authorized to give historical assessments and to recognize or not recognize these organizations as criminal or not. So far, no court has recognized them criminal, even the Nuremberg Tribunal or the courts of the USSR. The court recognized the legality or illegality of Yushchenko’s decree, and acknowledged that the decree was issued without violation. If Vitrenko wants them to be declared criminal, it can either be a law that can be adopted by the Verkhovna Rada and signed by the president, or the result of a popular referendum. But the coalition of the Party of Regions and Communists is in no hurry to take any steps in this direction, the author is right in this, THANKS CEP. Vitrenko steamed and well done.
I myself refuse to argue about the crime of the OUN and the UPA because of the extreme ideological contamination of the issue, because you can not throw theses to me, I will not answer.

[Noni4]

I wrote everything correctly.

[Alex]

Quote: SuperDuck

recognize or not recognize these organizations as criminal or not. So far, no court has recognized them criminal, even the Nuremberg Tribunal or the courts of the USSR.

Personally, it is enough for me to know what these "heroes" were in order to understand a simple truth: their actions do not need a decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal, since they fully fall under the banal articles of the Criminal Code. And references to the war, the national liberation movement and other excuses simply do not pass. A bandit - he is also a bandit in Western Ukraine.

[makrus]

Quote: SuperDuck

I myself refuse to argue about the crime of the OUN and the UPA because of the extreme ideological contamination of the issue, because you can not throw theses to me, I will not answer.

Sorry. Who will enlighten us then if not the brothers Ukrainians.

[Superduck]

I think it was sarcasm
But I don’t know the truth, of course, the topic is so muddied that I’m afraid that nobody knows it, this time. Two is that in Russia no one is ready to seriously speak on this topic without a patriotic yell, i.e. relying solely on historical facts and not on a sample of them, but on everything, even in Ukraine, however, there are also such units. Even professional historians are not able to talk about this, what to speak for the rest. Three, a generalization of all this movement under the abbreviations UNA, UPA and so on is an ideological abstraction, a really professional debate always comes down to discussing the activities of specific people who often consisted in one wing of the organization but held opposite positions., But at the same time, the meaning of the conversation about movement in whole is lost.
In short, the topic is so capacious and muddy that I’m afraid even if I wanted to say that I could not be really objective.
And if on the topic of the hunger of the 32nd year I can at least operate on eyewitness accounts with whom I spoke personally, then nothing connects me with these guys at all. All my grandfathers fought in the Red Army and did not participate in the fight against them. Although my grandfather had a chance to fall into this hell during the war when he was being prepared as part of a sabotage group to be sent to those lands, the headquarters of the partisan troops were disbanded a week before the abandonment, because his group was assigned to the regular army as a reconnaissance platoon. Because I think that I will not deliver pleasure to anyone and probably this is for the best.

[APASUS]

Well done! Competently otmazatsya!

[Alex]

Quote: SuperDuck

And if on the topic of the famine of the 32 year, I can at least operate on the testimonies of eyewitnesses with whom I spoke personally,

That's just what has the OUN-UPA, which at that time were generally part of Poland. So that is all the eyewitness accounts past the target.

[Ivan35]

it also seems to me that the article intensifies confrontation. I am a Soviet person and I would also like to now "condemn" the Banderaites. But the most important thing now is to restore the country - and if the 3 republics are already really getting together - then Ukraine is hanging in uncertainty. At this moment, any provocations that can alienate the Ukrainians are criminal - everything must be done to bring them closer - up to the introduction of censorship on articles inciting any negative. We still have a chance to gather the Russian people in all 4 parts.

[APASUS]

The Ukrainian ethnos is not homogeneous in essence. For all the years of its independence, there has not been a single president uniting a nation around him! There has been no national idea to unite the country! All talk about Shukhevych and Bender push the country to the abyss.
The country needs a leader who will think about his people !!!!
As for the attitude towards Bender, I read an interesting article in the German press about five years ago. The Germans kept scrupulous statistics of losses during the war. I don’t remember literally, but there we are talking about a request to the Bundestag (from the Ukrainian Nazis) asking them to confirm the loss of the German army in a collision with UNA UNSO units. The response followed approximately the same character. We do not have such information, try contacting the Bundeswehr archive.

[makrus]

Quote: SuperDuck

Two is that in Russia no one is ready to seriously speak on this topic without a patriotic yell, i.e. relying solely on historical facts and not on a sample of them, but on everything, even in Ukraine, however, there are also such units.

Honestly, I don’t know how to justify these people. Suppose that Germany concluded a peace treaty with the USSR in 1942, and what shines for Ukraine in this case? Try to honestly answer this question. It is also unclear to me why the Russians are called invaders. Ukraine, which did not live well after the war, maybe Ukrainians were scolded in Russia?
There is nothing "MUDDY" here.

Quote: SuperDuck

And if on the topic of the hunger of the 32nd year, I can at least operate on eyewitness accounts with whom I spoke personally

Famine was everywhere and not only in the USSR, but also in England, France, America. It’s just that in Ukraine it was turned into an ideological banner.
WITH RESPECT.

[Ivan35]

Yes, in Kazakhstan, many Kazakhs still remember the famine in the 30s - more than half of them died - I’m not sure for sure, but in my opinion the natural cycle of jute coincided (hunger in the steppe - repeats every 30 -50 years) and incorrect collectivization and surplus appraisal - the bottom line is that if the Russian peasant leaves 2 cows and a horse it’s ok - normal - because there is still a garden and a field - and the same rules apply to a nomad who has only livestock - that is, it was necessary to leave much more for the same level of survival - the leadership at that time was half Trotskyite and even Stalin did not yet have complete power - in general, the horror that they did here. I wonder how they all did not become a superantiurus nation. But the majority understands that everyone suffered in those difficult years - there was a common misfortune. And if you start reckoning now, it’s better not anyone

In general, hunger was everywhere in the USSR at that time (and the Volga region, etc.) - no one set a task against any particular people

[His]

Hunger was a problem throughout the country. At the same time, no one says that people across the country collected donations to the starving Volga region, Ukraine. Russian people, peasants, left themselves a minuscule giving free grain to the needy.

[Ivan35]

And yet - and yet under the USSR the next cycle of famine did not come! The USSR overcame nature - after the war there were no jutes and no "famines" - the advantage of the socialist economy! And now until now 20 years after the USSR, Kazakhstan continues to regularly issue its billion in wheat - oil and uranium super-wealth is not enough for them - so after all, wheat also goes from year to year after the development of virgin lands

That is, it is wrong to blame the USSR for hunger - on the contrary, he overcame hunger - he simply could not cope in his first years because of the "growing pains" of the Trotskyists, pressure from the West and the mistakes of young fools.

[Superduck]

Ivan35,
I don’t know how it is in Kazakhstan, but in Ukraine, the Central Development Commission, the Kuban, natural hunger never happened. This was not natural hunger. Part of the plan to implement collectivization and eradicate private property. I don’t know if the hunger was planned during this plan or not, but he did 80% of the work about this plan, which I congratulate everyone on.

[Ivan35]

I agree! I hope this does not happen again!

[Superduck]

I said that I would not argue, I never tried to justify them, believe me my feelings for them are not very different from yours.
As for the famine, I don’t need to breed me as well, I’ve had half of my relatives then, I can be rude. I just do not like it when human lives are described in terms of politics and especially ideology.