2014 World Tank Biathlon World Championships. Winner appointed?

So ended the first full-scale world tank biathlon championship. It ended with the victory of our team. The second place was taken by the team of Armenia. In third place were the Chinese. The spectacle is definitely exciting. However, the very essence of tank biathlon is not only in a beautiful show and not even in identifying the best tank crew, but, first of all, in checking the real capabilities of the combat equipment that is in service with one or another country.

"The competition of technology, especially military technology, is incredibly important, because it speaks of the technical level of production, science, further improvement of all that stands on the defense of our country ..." - said Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

Following this, which was absolutely true in essence, it could be assumed that these competitions will play a full-fledged “economics / designers cup”, that is, the team of each country will come to the competition at its best tank, which (attention) is not an exhibition model existing in a single copy, but is in service with the army. And in a significant amount. Here you should ask the organizers questions.

Question # 1. Why did we have an experimental model of the tank at the competitions - T-72B3M, which is not present in the operating forces, the Chinese arrived on far from their very best tank - Type-96A, and the rest of the competitors were honored with the stock T-72B? After all, it distorted the very idea of ​​holding such competitions.

We will try to explain the essence of the "claim" in more detail. The competition was attended by teams from twelve countries. Russia, Belarus, China, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Mongolia, Angola, Serbia, Venezuela, Armenia, India and Kyrgyzstan. Let's take a look at the armed forces of these countries and draw up a “correct” list of the equipment that, according to the logic of these competitions, should have taken part in them. The actual tank will be indicated next to it, and the engine power in brackets.

What happens? It turns out that if all the participants of the competition brought exactly those tanks, which their aircraft had, then the competitions would be immeasurably more interesting and, most importantly, much more productive from the point of view of the “Economists / Designers' Cup”. They would give a complete picture of the possibilities of tank technology in these countries. It would be particularly interesting to look at the Abramsy’s MKNUMXA1 Kuwaiti.

In fact, everything turned out a little differently. The main intrigue was reduced to the confrontation of the tanks of the two superpowers: Russia and China. It must be thought that “by chance” T-72B of Armenia was in the second place. Ours rolled out to the competition the newest model T-72B3M with the engine power 1130 hp. from T-90MS “Breakthrough”, which immediately received the nickname T-72B “Sport”. Its power on the 130 HP more than the serial T-90A, and the 290 HP. more than the serial T-72B3 in service with the army of the Russian Federation. The Chinese have brought their own not the best tank to the competition - Type-96A, whose power is 1,5 times less than that of the newest Type-99A2. The rest of the teams were equalized and deliberately lacked serious chances for prizes. They were all handed stock T-72B1. Thus, at this stage it became clear who will be the winner of these competitions. The fact that the second place was taken by the stock T-72B of Armenia, is a miracle and the merit of their tank crews who brought their car to perfection.

Of course, it can be argued that if everyone came with his tank, then countries such as Armenia or Kyrgyzstan would completely refuse to go, because they had practically no chance of success. Firstly, they would actively fight for places among the teams of their level, and secondly, using the example of Armenia, it is clear that even the old T-72B1, if adjusted and adjusted to the ideal, is still quite acceptable apparatus.

Question # 2. A tank is still a tank, not a sports car. His main task in battle is to destroy the enemy, and not to rush around the field like mad. Therefore, it is not clear why such small penalties were imposed on the slip? Our T-72B3M was worn there as a propeller and, in fact, won precisely at the expense of speed, but the Chinese were the best in shooting. And it costs a lot. By the way, the not very successful shooting of ours on the course and the position of the commanding panorama suggests that the T-72B3M crew at competitions suddenly forgot about the newest vehicle in their tank and used exclusively the old 140. Maybe its role here played the idiotic location of the newest sight "Sosna-U"?

Question # 3. Airborne screens with elements of the KNDS 4C20 "Contact" located on them are an important element of the protection of the tank in battle. On the track, these screens were torn and korezhili. Why aren't penalty minutes entered for damage to the screens (tank)?

Question # 4. Why there were no long range shooting at a target that simulates a hovering helicopter? From a distance of at least 3000 m. This is a very important component of tank training and tank capabilities, because modern combat helicopters pose a great threat to tanks, and you can not always hope for your ZSU and ZSRK. The argument that not everyone has a CCA (guided weapons complex) is not accepted here. The fact that you do not have missiles will not make enemy helicopters disappear. Who does not have URO in the tank, let them shoot what they want: from a cannon or from a machine gun. Just a penalty for a mistake here should be made not so large.

Question # 5. Shooting from the course. If we introduced such a test, then its rules should be the same for all. In fact, it turned out that the Chinese Type-96A was shooting at targets, moving at a speed of 25-30 km / h, but shooting from the course of the T-72B1 tanks and our T-72B3М was more like shooting from a short stop. Their speed at the moment of firing visually barely reached 10 km / h. It is worth noting that even despite the more than two-fold difference in speed, the shooting efficiency of the Chinese tank was higher. Why wasn’t the speed of movement when shooting from a course regulated in advance?

Question # 6. What is the reason why the Chinese tank shot the BOPS and the rest, including ours, with caliber shells? The initial speed of the BOPS is approximately two times higher than the initial speed of the caliber projectiles, respectively, and the accuracy of fire of the BOPS is much higher. All this significantly distorts the results of fire tests. All tanks in competition must use the same type of ammunition.

Some conclusions on past competitions

And the conclusions are as follows:

1. T-72B series tanks are mechanically very reliable, but their armament complex requires careful adjustment and adjustment, which cannot be carried out only by the crew and the spare parts of the tank. Any error in the SLA leads to the fact that the fire of these tanks becomes ineffective.

2. In terms of the effectiveness of firing, especially from the move, not the best Chinese Type-96A tank has a noticeable superiority over Russian tanks, including the T-72B3М.

3. The strength of the onboard screens of Russian and Chinese tanks, as well as the attachment of these screens to the hull, are completely unsatisfactory.

4. On maneuverability, the Chinese Type-96A tank is superior to domestic models due to the perfect hydromechanical transmission.

5. The speed characteristics of the T-72B series of tanks are quite satisfactory. Subject to their good condition.

6. The reliability of Chinese tank technology raises some doubts, which, however, does not deny the fact of the high level of elaboration of their design. Although, maybe the “Type” breakdown is just an accident.

Comments

[master 84]

Won it well at any cost

[Ivan Petrovich]

still how important. When the tankers will burn from hits of Chinese blanks, and in response they will miss
otherwise many shouted here, copywriters, copywriters ...

[master 84]

It is necessary to draw the line between the game and ...

[Natalia]

schA sanctions will be boring to everyone, you look and the Germans will come on their leopards next year ...

[Ezhaak]

Quote: Natalia

Germans will come on their leopards

It’s not about sanctions. They just won’t come! Arrive to arrive, more precisely, but they will not bring their tanks!

[sledgehammer102]

For what reason did we have a pilot model of the tank - T-72Б3М, which is not in the active forces, did the Chinese come by far from their best tank - Type-96A, and the rest of the participants were completely awarded the stock T-72Б?

Ours chose an experimental tank and did it right, but what the rivals rode on was the problems of the rivals.

Therefore, it is not clear why such small penalties were imposed on the slip?

What should it be ??? In the end, it would turn out that the slip is equivalent to defeat.

Why aren't penalty minutes entered for damage to the screens (tank)?

This is a biathlon, baby, then you need to enter the penalty minutes for the caterpillars and injured crew members, as a result, there will be competitions not of tankers, but of mathematicians

Question # 4. Why there were no long range shooting at a target that simulates a hovering helicopter?

For not everyone has experience in using such ammunition, but shooting at a range will appear, I am sure of that.

Why wasn’t the speed of movement when shooting from a course regulated in advance?

A jamb that the organizers did not take into account will correct or come up with something else.

Question No.6. For what reason did the Chinese tank fire the BOPS, and the rest, including ours, with caliber shells?

you can make a bunch of restrictions, and then everyone will say that the Russians are bending rules for themselves.

IMHO.
Competitions are developing, and rules will be developing along with them.

I do not agree with the author in his paradigm of "economics / constructors' cup" because all countries compete, and not separately producing and importing countries, respectively, both parameters "economics" and "constructors" disappear.

I believe that it is necessary to allow all countries with any shells, tanks and sights
Competition is unlikely to be fair, but it will have a positive effect on competition, prestige and entertainment, because everyone would like to see Challenger, Abrams, Merkava, T-90, Leopard, type-99 on the track

[Saburov]

How tired I am of these x .... x experts, so I will repeat. The T-90, like the upgraded T-72, is a good, fit modern tank, as mentioned above a good hundred times, although not without flaws. Yes, in some ways it can be worse than Leopard-2 and other Western showerheads, however, Russian industry can produce it, as well as spare parts for it, and domestic repairmen know how to repair it, which is important. Shkolota, kicking on the Internet, just forgets that not millimeters of calibers and not kilometers per hour of speed are fighting. Yes, not even tanks fighting. People are at war, and the outcome of the battle depends on a huge number of factors, in particular, on the use of aviation, artillery and other types of troops, the coherence of their actions and the degree of headaches of the command. No matter how cool the tank, the turntable, armed with ATGMs, will take apart a whole column of such tins for scrap, if they are not covered from air attacks, which was brilliantly confirmed by the “Gulf War” when the vast majority of T-72 tanks were pierced with sides with cumulative ammunition. Cunning ass Americans, taking advantage of the OMS and intelligence, hit Iraqi tanks with ATGMs mounted on the Bradley, while the Iraqis learned that they were being fired after the shells started to click on their armor.

[Letun]

Quote: master 84

It is necessary to draw the line between the game and ...

Yes Yes. I was also amused by the phrase "Stock T-72" The author apparently outplayed in World of Tanks
And of course, the author’s opinion on what each team should have performed is very important. I suggest that at the next year’s competitions, all participants agree on the choice of their equipment with Mr. Krang

[severniy]

and they spat and minded me when I said that the modernization of our thirty-year-old planes was a half measure, or rather a waste of money ... because there are developments, but someone, or something, slows down the development process ...

[Aleks tv]

Quote: severniy

and they spat on me and minusted me when I said that the modernization of our thirty-year-old aircraft is a half measure, or rather a waste of money ..,

Namesake, why are you doing this?

[hohol33]

The game paid for the military-industrial complex of Russia. And the military-industrial complex wins in this game. Tanks fly like hot cakes. Air darts will be released soon, And there is not far from the Army Olympics. I ran to register the idea until we licked the topic.

[hrych]

Do not worry, Petrovich, we will not play tanks with the Chinese, superpowers can only exchange vigorous blows, everything else is for colonial wars. And in general, when a tank shoots a tank, it is heresy. The tank is intended to smash enemy rear lines and the fight against them is the task of other military units, i.e. artillery, tactical aviation, sappers, etc.

[Shadowcat]

Well ... the German experience of the blitzkrieg - "Tanks don't fight with tanks" or the Soviet protracted - "We don't care what is with what, What is that and will bash what will be hidden"?)))

[inkass_98]

Quote: Ivan Petrovich

otherwise many shouted here, copywriters, copywriters ...

Well, they didn’t copy the MSAs, as did the transmission. But actually an article on the case. The conditions should be the same, and everyone should ride their own technique, and the speed of movement should not be put in the main priorities.
And you must definitely draw the right conclusions from the competition - and carry them out in the future.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Ivan Petrovich

When the tankers will burn from hits of Chinese blanks, and in response they will miss

still two points:
- it is better to fight with the Chinese against common enemies
- because The Chinese type 96 is worse than the abrams in shooting, the picture is very sad. Therefore, to improve the OMS - to engage and engage!

[korjik]

Shooting should be carried out more often, and not counting how much a shot costs, I won’t be very surprised if it turns out that in linear tank regiments they are trained at the level of dill tankers. I remember in our garrison there were tankers and rocket launchers, tankers basically knocked out a goose from dirt and painted it, and we didn’t see the rocket men.

[Crang]

Who told you that the Chinese Type-96 is worse than Abrams in shooting? Did they conduct joint tests?

[alicante11]

still how important. When the tankers will burn from hits of Chinese blanks, and in response they will miss

Dear, the 41st year has shown that tanks do not fight with tanks. All our tanks were knocked out by German anti-tank guns and anti-aircraft guns 8-8. And German tanks were crushing our infantry. At the same time, in face-to-face "meetings" the fascists quickly appreciated KV, and a little later near Moscow and 34-ku.

[Crang]

Quote: alicante11

All our tanks were knocked out by a German anti-aircraft gun and anti-aircraft guns 8-8. And German tanks crushed our infantry.

What - in general ALL??

[alicante11]

What - in general EVERYTHING ???

No, BT-shki even took part in Japanese. What for to dig into words? I meant that almost all the losses were from the German anti-tank defense system. The share of German tankers and aviation did not have so much. Well, and one more thing - on those abandoned along the roads from problems. From the T-35 battalion, only 2-3 tanks had combat losses, all the rest were damaged. However ... if you look at the tank composition of the Red Army units after the Border Battle, you get a strong feeling that if not all, then certainly "almost". The losses of the tank fleet were real.

[Crang]

Quote: alicante11

Meant that almost all losses from the German vocational school. The share of German tankers and aircraft was not so much.

"Not so much" is 30-40% of the total number of destroyed tanks.

[Shadowcat]

Well ... what about Kursk? I think that’s when the Germans finally abandoned the blitzkrieg tactics and began to create tanks that can withstand other tanks.

[alicante11]

And ... how did it help them?

[Giant thought]

Won, well done, but there is still something to work on, and the crews and designers, it’s too early to calm down.

[fzr1000]

In hostilities, the price will be marginal. The author is a young man.

[hrych]

Question number 2. A tank is still a tank, not a sports car. His main task in battle is to destroy the enemy, and not to rush across the field like mad. Therefore, it is not clear why such small penalties for a slip were introduced? Our T-72B3M rushed there like a propeller and, in fact, won precisely due to speed, but the Chinese were the best at shooting.

The entire article of some offender from the team did not reach the podium. We must not just hit, but hit first, only the combination of good driving and accurate shooting gives victory, not just one component, which this game reflects. The only thing that the army needs to do business, and not play games. For competitions between military units, with the usual l / s, this may be acceptable, but then professional sports and shows will begin again, from which the army should be aloof.

[Wedmak]

professional sports and shows will begin again, from which the army should be aloof.

You shouldn’t be so. Such competitions popularize military service. In addition, we finally began to make sane and sometimes even interesting programs about the Army, Air Force, and Navy. Such programs and shows should be, of course, in a sane amount, but they should. The answer will be the desire of young people to connect their lives with the defense of their homeland. Professionally own one or another weapon.
In the end, we will have a professional army based on a contract. That is, they serve not for money, but for the idea, while receiving money, benefits, etc. Like work, only more dangerous than sitting in the office.

[hrych]

Of course I agree with the popularization, but it’s a pity to ruin expensive military equipment in games.

[Cynic]

Quote: hrych

With the popularization, of course I agree, but to ruin expensive military equipment

The cost of the 1 Formula car can reach the price from 600 thousand to a million dollars.

[Wedmak]

About the ruin, you exaggerated. Well, they tore off a couple of side screens, but they broke several rollers. In fact, this is still a consumable.

[s1н7т]

What’s the idea?
Without it, all these shows only affect the popularity of popcorn.
And the contract army for the Russian Federation is some unhealthy fantasy. Anyway, soon. So far, we have only a nonsense after a year of service.

[huut]

Quote: Wedmak

In addition, we finally began to make sane and sometimes even interesting programs about the Army, Air Force, and Navy.

Well, they started not now, but quite a long time ago, in the post-Soviet era - the Wings of Russia Studio. Probably everyone knows, but suddenly)

[Wedmak]

I talked mainly about programs like "how submariners live and serve," "how long-range aviation flies." To show the latest technology in a program is one thing, but to see it in action, as if from the inside, is quite another.

[officer29]

Quote: master 84

Won it well at any cost

In a real battle, it will be a "Pyrrhic victory"!

[Homo]

Quote: master 84

Won it well at any cost

Boy, how old are you? Writes WIN! A WINNER writes shkolota from 10 to 15 years! Which one of you is a commentator?

[master 84]

LISTEN TO GRANDFATHER ME 30 And he served in the tank troops in Elani (near Yekaterinburg) and before you learn to teach yourself

[Cynic]

Quote: master 84

He served in the tank forces in Elani (near Yekaterinburg) and before you learn to learn

I guess you write from the phone?

[Max otto]

Quote: master 84

LISTEN TO GRANDFATHER ME 30 And he served in the tank troops in Elani (near Yekaterinburg) and before you learn to teach yourself

Сlisten to, granddad, I'm 30. And he served in the tank troops in Elani (under Yekaterinburg),_and before you teach, learn yourself.

It will be better. And it’s much more understandable, because you want to be understood?

[master 84]

Some literate sofas are sitting after the pluses chasing

[Cynic]

Quote: master 84

Some literate sofas are sitting after the pluses chasing

[23 region]

Quote: master 84

Some literate sofas are sitting after the pluses chasing

Why do you need to be able to write correctly?

Everyone can answer this question in different ways. I believe that you need to be able to write correctly in order to understand each other correctly, and not in two ways. For this, rules and laws exist so that people live and create in accordance with them. In my opinion, this is the number 1 reason.

Reason number 2. In order to respect and preserve the laws, traditions and culture of the Russian language and its people.

Reason No. 3. Literacy is a powerful tool, and on the other hand, a powerful tool with which you can control. If you want to have such an instrument in your arsenal - become literate.

Reason number 4. As the seventh-graders wrote in an essay on the topic "Why you need to be able to write correctly" - so that you will be hired for a good job. It is gratifying that the children already understand a lot.

Reason No. 5. There is a good opinion that the first impression of a person comes from what kind of shoes he is wearing. Clean, well-groomed, or dirty, unwashed - feel the difference yourself. What shoes will you be more pleased to wear? The same is true for literacy. As soon as you see that a person is writing incorrectly (I do not mean FACILITIES, I mean regularities), the attitude towards him immediately changes. From plus to minus.

[evgenii67]

Quote: master 84

Won it well at any cost

Better to lose with dignity than to win!

[master 84]

And what are you going to raise the morale of the boys (losers)

[Zlodeey]

What exactly is fake? Are you, after all, a participant in this event or are you acquaintances to say so? Some of the participants did not speak about injustice, and even more so, everything was previously agreed upon with them.

[evgenii67]

Quote: ZloDeey

What exactly is lipo

I didn’t say that our lipos won, I answered master 84

Quote: master 84

And what are you going to raise the morale of the boys (losers)

are you going to cheat ?! not always, not everywhere and not in everything we are the best, but your URYA PATRIOTISM will certainly save Russia, we will piss in our ears, long live ... and so on! If somewhere, in what is worse, you need to work on it, do better, and not say "all the same, I have better be-be-be", and what is cooler inet the fighter cannot explain. This is not about tank biathlon, but the answer to your comment.

[master 84]

So it was always a simple soldier does not always need to know ... Strength in the spirit and mood for positive

[andj61]

Quote: ZloDeey

What exactly is fake? Are you, after all, a participant in this event or are you acquaintances to say so? Some of the participants did not speak about injustice, and even more so, everything was previously agreed upon with them.

I completely agree! In fact, the author is somewhat bent. I read the headline and thought the judges played along with ours.

2014 World Tank Biathlon World Championships. Winner appointed?

And here in the article - about something completely different, about the conditions and rules of the competition. The author, in my opinion, should be given SPECIFIC proposals for improving these rules. That would be more honest.
We would like professional tankers to speak out on this fact - we are interested in learning their opinion about the competitions.
For my part, the teapot, I can assume that entertainment played a big role in these competitions - for the sake of it, individual elements were introduced, for example, a competition not of tanks, but of crews without tanks. I leave the article without evaluation: the information is interesting, but I did not like the tone of the article.

[Cynic]

Quote: evgenii67

Better to lose with dignity than to win!

Well intentioned ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: evgenii67

Better to lose with dignity than to win!

Losing is always bad! Especially in international competitions and "on his own" (as the Poles say).
I would very much like the competitions to be held on the MBT, which are in service in the participating countries. For our "incredible friends" to take part with their technique: Abrams, Leopards, Merkavas, type 90 - I really want to look at them.
Then, on the target field. Or you need to put samples No. 2 of the same technique, or moving targets. And then we’ll look at dynamic protection, armor penetration, SLA and other bells and whistles.
They said about helicopters, I won’t repeat myself.
And the idea of ​​ski biathlon is blindly copied, even the rules are the same.

I liked the article. There is analysis and a critical approach to the topic. Now we need to make sure that the competitions are alternately held at the training grounds and directors of other SCO countries. And then it will be possible to judge the level of crew training and the perfection of the machines.
Sincerely.

[seregatara1969]

this is a game, albeit a "military"

[Basarev]

Nevertheless, certain conclusions must be made. Namely, seventy-two are seriously inferior in accuracy characteristics to the Chinese. It is understandable - yet the development of another seventy-third year. Over the decades, she managed to become very technically obsolete. And no Pines can fix the matter here - it's like clinging to PSO-1 as the food of the times of the Livonian War. The only thing that can help is the complete rearmament of the army with a completely new tank that has nothing to do with the T-72. Like Armata.

[ultra]

T-72b3-experimental, after this pearl reading of the article is finished! To the author minus, it's a pity I can put only one!

[vorobey]

Quote: ultra

after this pearl reading of the article is completed

The author’s pearls from earlier articles below ... threw links ..

[Alibekulu]

2014 World Tank Biathlon World Championships. Winner appointed?

In Kazakhstan, according to the XNUMXst biathlon, it was believed that the Russians won’t let anyone win the love of victory.
Those. using the tactics of "minor foul" to slow down if suddenly they will pull ahead.
Perhaps that is why ours did not arrive on their tanks. Anyway, the winner is known in advance. And so it would be interesting to check the Israeli modernization of the T-72.
By the way, in "SE" there was an article by Sergey Khusainov about how the result of football was "ensured" - fur coats, whores, etc. for referees

A team of judges arrives. I meet them properly. The chief says: "Sergei, I have been divorced for a long time. I so want a Russian woman!" No questions, I answer. But after the game. He waves his hands: "Don't worry, I will judge it right! I guarantee you!"
- And you went to look for a Russian woman?
- My head is spinning: where can I get it ?! He said to the driver, who laughed: "Grigorich, don't worry. I'm driving to Tverskaya, it's a matter of a minute."
And then a fantastic sauna was built in Luzhniki. A bar, an irregularly shaped pool with lighting ... The judges' eyes lit up. The chief arbiter, meanwhile, disappeared into the room with the girl, then they leave. She whispers: "Where did you get him from? Hungry, as if he hadn't touched a woman for a year." The ending was, guys, original.
A couple of years later, our team played a match in Moscow. I haven't been to the stadium, I watched it on TV. The next day at work I meet Koloskov. I stretch my hand: "Vyacheslav Ivanovich, with victory!" - "What have you done with the judge ?! I got off the gangplank, the first question is where is Khusainov?" It was with him that we left Luzhniki at six in the morning ...

For a year in 1986, the Lobanovsky team played in Simferopol .. a girl comes up to the judge, asks for a light in good English. Well, word for word ...
- Dancing. She introduced herself as Olga. The committee member tensed: "Guys, we are responsible. What if an emergency?" But we also need to arrange the referee before the game!
Our escort moved to Olga - in direct text she takes the address and phone number. Warns: "The car will be waiting for him at the entrance. And keep in mind ...
And how did the referee meet?
- It's funny. I watch a game on TV, a canopy on Belanova. The ball flew so that Igor could not get it. But he was in a strange penalty area. The judge was far from the game episode, but dared to appoint a penalty.

I also remember the qualifying match of the European Championship-92. It was important to win away, we then bypassed Italy in the group. The meeting was served by the same judge. I bought a camera gun for him in Moscow. I called the hotel: "I grabbed you a present. Intrigued. The next day I look - the representative of the host federation will not let anyone near the referee. Watching.
- Helped?
- The game is in progress. In the center of the field, a nonsense moment - a whistle. Penalty in our direction. Byshovets turned: "Sergei Grigorievich, what's this?" - "Now," I say, "the most interesting thing will be. When the ball flies to our penalty area, the referee will whistle right there. We will hit it already." And for sure. Judging Classics: This is called statistic work. Why do the Norwegians need this free kick?
http://football.sport-express.ru/reviews/1952/

This is now a common practice. Ours provided the 2011st team place to Kazakhstan in the Winter Asian Games (Asian Olympics) in XNUMX. Azeri helped their boxing World Cup in Baku - ours had many claims for refereeing ..

[pomegranate]

Winners are not judged.

[ny4ulo]

If it affects the interests of the state. they are judged. In my opinion, Shoigu should draw conclusions from what he saw and! at least give an order to improve the quality of firing from a tank in all conditions.

[Russian Patriot]

The first pancake is lumpy, next year all problems will be solved.

[Dedjara]

Author! Yes, you went ...!

PS
One surname can be shot.

[omsbon]

Quote: DedJara

One surname can be shot.

Nothing beguiled? For example a site?

[sem-yak]

People expressed their opinion!
Or this site has a different purpose!

So YOU ​​enlighten!

P.S. Although for a number of articles, it is time to rename it to "political review".

[Cynic]

Quote: sem-yak

People expressed their opinion!

Does it mean to others?
You already decide how something, or everyone can express their personal opinion or only those with your permission.
I remembered _ There are two opinions in the world: mine and wrong!
You can say _

as I recently found out, my correct opinion, it turns out, is far from not only mine. A lot of people share it.

[sem-yak]

For God's sake! I am glad, sincerely, that people have the ability to synthesize PERSONAL opinions! But I very much ask YOU "cynic" - If you want to catch someone, use the discrepancy between his thoughts and phrases!

And then "I remembered _ There are two opinions in the world: mine and wrong!" - Looks like YOUR personal opinion.

[Cynic]

Quote: sem-yak

If you want to convict someone, use the inconsistency of his thoughts and phrases!

Yes at a time _

Quote: sem-yak

But I very much ask YOU "cynic" ...

Well, what do we see here, the complete discrepancy between your thoughts and writing phrases.
Although, about thoughts ...
Telepaths hang out elsewhere.

[s1н7т]

Quote: sem-yak

P.S. Although for a number of articles, it is time to rename it to "political review".

And sometimes "military obscurity" is better.

[muginov2015]

A typical example of tunnel thinking.

[Cynic]

Quote: muginov2015

A typical example of tunnel thinking.

Why
The options are not one, not two! Much more ! Do not narrow the field of view.

[andrei332809]

nothing to water with mud. and no one interfered with the participants to come with their equipment. or go to the Olympic biathlon not with their skis and rifles? so this opus is not appropriate

[Zlodeey]

Exactly, the tanks were provided to the participants, and the author still does not like something, let them go on their own, everyone will be happy only.

[vorobey]

Quote: andrei332809

nothing to water with mud

Hi, hi. 100500+

Krang is a well-known analyzer ... and our battles with him are very well-known to old-timers ... He and 72 used to be dragonless and not fake ...
I throw links to his analytic publications ..

http://topwar.ru/39536-nedostatki-tanka-t-72b-puti-ih-garazhno-polevogo-ispravle



niya-i-taktika-primeneniya-v-sovremennom-boyu.html

Tactics of use of T-72B

A) In the night battle with the "Abrams", "Leopards" and "Types" in any case not to get involved. It is almost certain death.

B) In daytime combat, if possible, choose either long-range (more than 3000) and work with rockets, or, conversely, short (closer than 1500 m). At medium distances, the T-72B with its MSA does not do anything else. Try to choose static targets.

C) Against the infantry, sheltered in the houses, actively apply not only OFSy, but also BOPSy, shooting through them through the walls.

D) Be necessarily sober in battle. Alcohol intoxication can lead to a fatal error.

D) Forget about all kinds of fireproof suits. Firstly, it is very stuffy in them, which will have an appropriate effect on working capacity. Secondly, they are so hampering movement that in the event of a fire from the close fighting compartment T-72B will not get out. To be in a T-shirt and sports pants. On the feet or sneakers, or nothing (barefoot). A suit from burning charges will not save. All the same, or burn, or disperse there, like potatoes.

E) In the event of a helicopter attack, first try to hide by putting a smoke screen. Use URO against them only as a last resort. If this does not distract from the process of finding shelter.

G) Use 12,7-mm machine gun NSVT in the city very carefully. Even despite the shield cover, the commander remains vulnerable behind and from the sides.

Krang - your words?

http://topwar.ru/33101-v-rossii-byli-sozdany-modifikacii-t-80-kotorye-prevoshody



at-t-72b3-it-90a.html

here in the comments Fuel oil brother my Alex tv blows the lad ..

http://topwar.ru/49654-osnovnoy-boevoy-tank-t-72b4.html а вот это шедевр


http://topwar.ru/page,1,2,25379-tank-t-90ms-analiz-osnovnyh-harakteristik-i-vozm



ozhnye-puti-dalneyshego-povysheniya-boevyh-kachestv.html

This is his allllis last year
http://topwar.ru/34228-tankovyy-biatlon-ochen-pokazatelnaya-igra.html


BTW SECOND PLACE TAKED T72 B HOW TO ....

And ours made a tempting offer to all participants for modernization ... By the way, Kuwait, no one bothered the Indians to bring Abrams and T90 or Arjun could be solved.


Krang (4) SU  September 10, 2013 14:25 p.m.


Until they replace everything with the T-90A and introduce the T-99 "Armata" (at least a few units), we will not shine in tanks.



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[Aleks tv]

Quote: vorobey

Krang is a famous analyzer ...

Yep ...

Great, Sanya.

As much as I do not want to criticize Krang, or else they will hang "impartiality" around his neck ...
But
Ivan, everything is as always - solid material was taken and mixed with our own speculations - in the end we got porridge. With one sentence - I agree, from another sentence - he takes a rash. And so constantly.
Commenting on the article is tedious in essence.
No offense.

Regarding the T-72B3M:
Yes, it’s annoying that this is not a SERIAL car.
But at the last biathlon there was ONE modification, and everyone was on the T-72B ONE machine.
Honestly Fair.
At this biathlon, it was announced that participants could use their own cars, which was used, for example, by the Chinese.
Accordingly, there could be no question of the equality of the technical side of the competition, so ours made a car "ala Paris-Dakkar".
Who prevented other participants from doing the same? No one. They didn’t even bring foreign modifications of the T-72B ... FIG knows why.
Fair? Fair.

[sem-yak]

and at the last biathlon, OUR crew finished the race first, despite the malfunction of the transmission (did not turn in one direction), although they could, according to the rules, transfer to another car.

I would therefore like to hear the opinion of "kreng"

[Crang]

Quote: sem-yak

and at the last biathlon, OUR crew finished the race first, despite the malfunction of the transmission (did not turn in one direction), although they could, according to the rules, transfer to another car.

I would therefore like to hear the opinion of "kreng"

Yes - our crew was the most trained. But once again I will quote the words of Sergey Kozhugetovich Shoigu (after all, he invented this game): “The competition of equipment, especially military equipment, is incredibly important, because it speaks of technical level of production, science, further improvement of all that stands for the protection of our country... "Do you understand why did he come up with this game? That is, first of all, to clarify the capabilities of technology. A person can be trained. But the tank has certain performance characteristics that clearly define what it can and what it can’t.

[Crang]

Quote: Aleks tv

Ivan, everything is as always - solid material was taken and mixed with our own speculations - in the end we got porridge. With one sentence - I agree, from another sentence - he takes a rash. And so constantly.

And what exactly does Aleksey take from the hell? If something is not clear - I’ll unclench everything in more detail.

Quote: Aleks tv

But at the last biathlon there was ONE modification, and everyone was on the T-72B ONE machine.
Honestly Fair.

This kind of competition certainly makes sense. Namely, to identify the best crew. Well, like in Formula 3000. But Sergey Kozhugetovich downloaded clearly:
"The competition of technology, especially military technology, is incredibly important, because it speaks of the technical level of production, science, further improvement of all that stands on the defense of our country ..."
That is, it is clear that the main point of these competitions is still in the constructors' cup.

Quote: Aleks tv

Accordingly, there could be no question of the equality of the technical side of the competition, so ours made a car "ala Paris-Dakkar".

This is dishonest Alex. Choose the best, but serial tank. Do not like how the T-72B3 drives - take the T-80U (1250hp). He will ride better, but shoot worse. The T-72B3M is not in service with the armament, and therefore the results shown to it do not bring almost any practical benefit. After all, tanks in service will ride and shoot differently.

Quote: Aleks tv

Who prevented other participants from doing the same?

I think that all the same "interfered". Because the logic of the same India is completely incomprehensible at such a time. Why did they "not want" to bring their T-90S Bishma? After all, with this tank, they could well count on the first place. What kind of competition is this, where their participants (themselves) prepare themselves for defeat. So Alexei got in the way.

Quote: Aleks tv

Fair? Fair.

No - not fair.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Krang

Choose the best but serial tank. Do not like how the T-72Б3 drives - take the T-80У (1250л.с.). He will ride better, but shoot worse.

Yes, it’s a pity that the car was not serial.
Yes, I wrote about it - annoyingly.
But in the light of the fact that the participants could bring ANY technique - this is normal.

Well, about the T-80U you bent again ... the scope for daytime shooting is excellent, the stabilizer is better.

To answer the rest - well, fire Ivan.
Everything is as usual...
No offense.

[Crang]

Quote: Aleks tv

Well, about the T-80U you bent again ... the sight for daytime shooting is excellent

Compared to the Sosna-U T-72B3, which has a microprocessor-based TsBV and, in my opinion, even has a built-in automatic target tracking, the T-80U sight is not so hot. Old - what to take with him.

Quote: Aleks tv

the stabilizer is better.

The 2E42 "Jasmine" stabilizer is absolutely the same as on the T-72B or T-90. But there is a sense of it. All the tanks that fired on the move moved along a very flat road.

[voyaka uh]

"or, conversely, small (closer than 1500 m). At medium distances, the T-72B with its
LMS is neither that nor that. Try to choose static targets "////

So it was 30 years ago. The Arabs achieved success at distances of 1,5 km or less. From 2,5-4 km they were shot as if in a shooting range. Even the "Patton" M-48 MSA gave good results at long distances. Therefore, the Pattons were tolerated, despite their fire hazard.

[Aleks tv]

Quote: voyaka uh

or, conversely, small (closer than 1500 m). At medium distances T-72B with his
MSA neither.

Alexey, I don’t know how Arabs shot there ... they seemed to have cars with optical sights and mechanical ballistic computers ...

2100m-2500m - up to this range, 2A46M works like a sniper, if everything is prepared for shooting.
A poorly trained crew will not smear until 1800m.

Something like this on the T-72B, actually ... maybe on export modifications and worse data, I don’t know.

[vorobey]

Quote: voyaka uh

From 2,5-4 km they were shot as if in a shooting range. Even the "Patton" M-48 MSA gave good results at long distances.

In more detail you can where and when .... M48 against 54 and 62 gave results ..

and then 62 I don’t remember, mine began to develop it as opposed to the M60 which replaced the patton .. I don’t remember exactly already .. but I didn’t meet Patton 72, and if I did, I didn’t win.

[voyaka uh]

T-72 met with Patton. In Syria in 1982. As usual,
at close distances - on equal terms, although the T-72 had an advantage
in rate of fire. Long distance Israelis
almost always won. But in Patton crews died
which is unacceptable to Israel, so Merkava appeared.
The first Merkava had homogeneous armor. Her and T-62 pierced.

[Crang]

Quote: voyaka uh

T-72 met with Patton.

When is that? Maybe with the M60 all the same?

Quote: voyaka uh

As usual,
at close distances - on equal terms, although the T-72 had an advantage

This is sorry bullshit. Technique of different generations.

Quote: voyaka uh

Long distance Israelis
almost always won.

We won against T-55 and T-62. But not the T-72.

[Crang]

Quote: vorobey

Krang - your words?

My. I will subscribe to every word. What exactly is wrong with them in your opinion?

[lelikas]

Quote: andrei332809

and no one bothered the participants with their equipment to come

Strongly agree !!! The Chinese wanted - they brought their Type, the rest did not stop at doing the same. Otherwise, it turns out, if Angola or Ethiopia put, for example, T-34/85 - should everyone change them?
If there were the Bundes, they would have made everyone on the spot on Leo, the article would have to be called "The Germans appointed a winner."

[Gardamir]

Good analysis. Still, the generals would have read it.

[s1н7т]

Quote: Gardamir

Good analysis. Still, the generals would have read it.

Then, on the basis of this show, to level the combat training programs ?!

[Roman 1977]

And on the tank biathlon, kettles break equipment ...

The Chinese somewhere inaccurately parked ...

And this is Venezuela - go Matiz drove into the barrel ...

And, no, this Kharkiv product (T-64BM "Bulat") didn't make it to Alabino - it broke down on the way, in the Donbass!

[Cynic]

Quote: Novel 1977

And on the tank biathlon, kettles break equipment ...

Syria also received news of the weakness of the fastening of the blocks of dynamic protection.

[Zlodeey]

Yes, the Syrian tankman personally told about this:

[Kars]

Yes, in the Donbas a lot of things break.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

Yes, in the Donbas a lot of things break.

Here recently a militia movie was laid out with the burning ukropitekovskaya BMP-2, where after the 72nd the militia went on (?!).
Seeing these guys finally believed _ Dill, come on, bye !

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

Yes, in the Donbas a lot of things break.

Andrey, and damask steel too? (you can’t do without ..) Hi

[Kars]

Quote: vorobey

Andrey, and damask steel too? (you can’t do without ..) Hi

2 pieces. About breakdowns - they drive better than bws from conservation. There are no abandoned and blown up ones. Like captured ones.
but all right, in some reports from the militia there are already 19 destroyed T-84

[Kars]

Soon, Malyshev will probably wring out these.

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

Soon, Malyshev will probably wring out these.

Clamped .. x ohla same ..
There is so much good lying in Malyshev’s yard ...

[Kars]

Quote: vorobey

Clamped .. x ohla same ..

No wonder the director of the plant recently changed.

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

Quote: vorobey

Clamped .. x ohla same ..

No wonder the director of the plant recently changed.

and the logic is .... so at least some kind of money can be obtained for the tanks - such as the order is completed, but it’s so simple to give or lose in the Donbass

[Kars]

Quote: vorobey

and the logic of what.

and the junta now has no logic. Yaytsenyuh is generally inadequate for the last half a year. well, or they were paid for the complete collapse of the country.

[Zlodeey]

Kars - your country is being destroyed and you have nothing to do? Please briefly explain what’s the matter? What is the matter with the people?

[vorobey]

Quote: ZloDeey

Please briefly explain what’s the matter? What is the matter with the people?

and the same thing that we periodically ... haven't forgotten the swamp? Only in Ukraine, the Shenderovichs, the Latins, the Makarevichs, the Nemtsovs, Kasparovs are fatter and more fattened .. and the people are wretched alas ..

[Crang]

People zombied. Hatred of Russia and Russian. At least they made it into my brain that Russian and Ukrainian are different peoples. Kars did not escape this fate. Now they are treating, but whether the majority will be cured is unknown. In general, the United States, NATO and the Kiev junta itself played into the hands of this tank therapy. And the people can. The south-east of the country will soon crush all this Bandera kaku.

[Crang]

Did you just recognize Kars? Are you aware that Klitschko, for example, is a German citizen and most of the time he lives there.

[Crang]

The old one was taken off for the ** ** T-72.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

The old one was taken off for the ** ** T-72.

Clown confused Kivevsky BTRZ and Kharkov.

Quote: Krang

Did you just recognize Kars? Are you aware that Klitschko, for example, is a German citizen and most of the time he lives there.

I never voted for the nickname.

Quote: Krang

Kars did not escape this fate

I never had hatred for Russians and Russians, only contempt for people like you.

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

I never had hatred for Russians and Russians, only contempt for people like you.

And where did the contempt for "people like me" Kars come from?

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

And where did the contempt for "people like me" Kars come from?

Well, you yourself tried.

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

Well, you yourself tried.

What is Kars? Analyze my words from the perspective of the current situation in Ukraine, where you wanted to cooperate and be a partner with the United States on an equal footing. And Russia is a part of your world, meanwhile you sharply denied. Well.

[syntanjey]

Timely comments! Yes, the Chinese are numbering uno now in tank building!

[Cynic]

Quote: syntanjey

Yes, the Chinese are numerically uno now in tank building

Name at least one of them, namely them, an advanced technical solution.
Hindsight is strong, so try to be the first.

[Kars]

Quote: Cynic

Name at least one of them, namely them, an advanced technical solution.

Laser weapons on a serial tank?

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

Laser weapons on a serial tank?

Well dear Kars , you still say that you do not know what Stylet и Compression .

An artificial crystal weighing about 30 kg was specially grown for Compression

[Kars]

I never heard that compression is a serial machine, I’m generally silent about the ship.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

I never heard that compression is a serial machine

Well, I think the photo is not a serial laser tank either.

In fact, any military development of the 80s, even 100% paid off, could not become serial.
И Compression not a paper draft.
Vultures still stand on laser weapons, there were rumors of wedges with systems such as Stiletto (it’s clear to me now, but then ...), but it can easily be information about Stiletto, which was so interestingly transformed.

[Kars]

Quote: Cynic

Well, I think the photo is also not a serial laser tank

99 almost all carry laser auxiliary weapons.

Quote: Cynic

And Compression is not a paper project.

what can I say - the laser itself also appeared before Compression.
And while the Chinese were the first to install it in series, the more Compression is another application concept, and most likely not a tank, but a self-propelled laser system.

Quote: Cynic

Name at least one of them, namely them, an advanced technical solution.

in general this is a rather dangerous question - I would also like to know about this in the USSR, I’m even unsure what MZ / AZ were the first to put in the USSR. Laser rangefinders are like Americans, serial stabilizers are also Yankees and so on.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

in general this is a rather dangerous question

Naturally, it is one thing to apply serially to those already used by others, it is another to apply serially only what is known and what and how ...

Quote: Kars

I’m not sure that MZ / AZ was the first to put in the USSR. Laser rangefinders, it seems, are Americans, serial stabilizers are also Yankees and so on.

Here, by humor, you can cling to the concept in series, also a very slippery issue.
We put it on a series of 20 cars and everyone is happy, put it in series!
In our same series is not even hundreds, thousands of cars.
I did not look at the application priorities you mentioned, the only thing I remember is that the first stabilizers (vertical) were put on Bets! IR Germans.
Well, this can be a long time ...

[Kars]

Quote: Cynic

stabilizers (vertical) were set on Bets!

only they did not work, and during the war there was not a single BT with a working stabilizer.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

only they did not work, and during the war there was not a single BT with a working stabilizer.

Without reliable information, I will not argue or deny anything, I know that they were.

[Crang]

There were many. Everything worked for everyone.

[voyaka uh]

The laser on the tank will come soon, but will not replace the main
caliber, and a machine gun.

[andj61]

From Wiki:

1K17 “Compression” is a Soviet and Russian self-propelled laser system for counteracting enemy optoelectronic devices. Not serially produced
In December 1990, a prototype of the car was assembled, in 1991 1K17 was sent for state tests, which ended in 1992, after which the complex was recommended for adoption. However, despite the positive test results, the collapse of the USSR, the revision of state financing of defense programs, the high cost of the complex and other economic factors made the Russian Ministry of Defense doubt the need for such complexes, so the machine was not sent to serial production.

The 1K17 complex had an automatic search and guidance on objects flashing from the radiation of a multi-channel ruby ​​solid-state laser. Especially for 1K17, an artificial ruby ​​crystal was grown weighing 30 kg. The crystal was made in the shape of a cylinder. The ends are polished, coated with silver and acted as mirrors for the laser. Around the ruby ​​rod in the form of a spiral, xenon flash discharge lamps were encircled to illuminate the crystal. According to another source, the working fluid of the laser could be not a ruby ​​crystal, but yttrium aluminum garnet with neodymium additives, which allows to develop high power in a pulsed mode.

But according to "Stiletto"

1K11 "Stiletto" is a Soviet self-propelled laser system for counteracting optoelectronic devices of the enemy.
The development of the ground-based version of the Stilet laser complex was conducted by NPO Astrophysics. The chief designer in the direction was ND Ustinov. Uraltransmash, under the direction of Yu. V. Tomashov, was engaged in the development of the chassis and installation of the on-board special complex. In the process of creation, two prototypes were made. The 1K11 machine was tested and was put into service in 1982. Despite the adoption of the serial "Stiletto" was never produced, and the total release was limited to two experimental machines

Thus, neither the Stiletto nor the Compression are laser combat systems for the destruction of equipment, but are designed to counter the enemy's optical-electronic devices.
Laser "cannons" for the destruction of equipment are theoretically possible only in a stationary form, but in terms of energy consumption it is meaningless: to supply them with energy it is necessary to connect entire power plants, and not so small ones.

[Cynic]

Quote: andj61

designed to counter the optoelectronic devices of the enemy.

Lifetime of equipment with disabled optoelectronic devices?

[saag]

Quote: Cynic

Name at least one of them, namely them, an advanced technical solution

hydromechanical transmission instead of torsion

[Cynic]

Quote: saag

hydromechanical transmission instead of torsion

Hmm, you know, and in response there is nothing to say.
The only thing that happened back in the 60s in the USSR was the conversation _

Quote: Cynic

at least one of them, namely them, is an advanced technical solution.

And still _ Please open the Secret of the Golden Key, that is, the secret of the torsion transmission!

[vorobey]

Quote: saag

hydromechanical transmission instead of torsion

man do not confuse the transmission with the suspension ...

[Cynic]

Quote: vorobey

do not confuse the transmission with the suspension ...

What if there is, but we don’t know!

[vorobey]

Quote: Cynic

Quote: vorobey

do not confuse the transmission with the suspension ...

What if there is, but we don’t know!

see a gopher? and he is ...

By the way, I threw Kreg’s articles over there ... do you remember the glorious time of the scuffle?

[Cynic]

Quote: vorobey

By the way, I threw Kreg’s articles over there ...

Looked .

Quote: vorobey

Do you remember the glorious time of the scuffle?

The enemy had learned a lot that day,
What does Russian battle mean,
Our hand-to-hand fighting! ..
The earth was shaking - like our breasts,
Mixed in a bunch of horses, people,
And the volleys of a thousand guns
Merged in a long howl ...

[Federal]

With great pleasure I watched the finals in Russia 2, the spectacle is very bright and beautiful. Dashing trouble began, because this type of competition is the youngest and is still to come. Good luck to our team.

[erased]

Competition is just a convention, albeit indicative. The main thing is on the battlefield. In the meantime, it turns out that the Chinese alterations of our tanks are better than our originals in some respects.
Conclusion? We are waiting for Armata. We’ll see how he will surprise and please (I hope).

[AlNick]

if all the participants in the competition brought to them exactly the tanks that their aircraft have at their disposal, then the competition would be immeasurably more interesting and, most importantly, much more productive from the point of view of the “economists / designers cup”. They would give a complete picture of the capabilities of tank technology in these countries.
Of course, one could argue that if everyone came with their own tank, then countries like Armenia or Kyrgyzstan would have refused to go at all, since they practically had no chance of success.

That would be very interesting. In the classic biathlon, each athlete comes with his rifle. However, if there is a desire, then let the participating country select a tank from those proposed by the host country.

[Cynic]

Quote: AlNick

In the classic biathlon, each athlete comes with his rifle.

Do the organizers give out skis and everything else?
Introducing _ Do you have 9? Here is 7. Nothing like that, in 7-ke run, trample!

[sem-yak]

`Another" KRANG "is trying to cheat on the RUSSIAN IDEA!
Go look in the mirror - at your eyesore and tip in the tongue!

[aleksandrs95]

there is something to work on, immediately and that everything goes smoothly, it does not happen. In the process of grinding, it will be better and more interesting.

[tomket]

Engine power, without a box capable of realizing this power, down the drain. About shells informatively, the secret of the Chinese is revealed. Well, in general, not all pilots in the F1 are given ferrari. The main thing is that the designers would miss the shooting mistakes, and you will come up with more ergonomics for the commander and gunner.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: tomket

You look and ergonomics for the commander and gunner will come up with a more successful one.

And before that, presumably, our designers caught the flies with their mouths, or what? Or is it you who are so advanced here, and around you are lovers of amusing troops, and not people who have dedicated their lives to this?
Then it’s better to immediately suggest to increase the tower (expand, or what?).

[Koshel2901]

hatred, the competitions should reveal the best crew and the tuning of the tank on one model of the car, and competitions of various models are already other competitions

[Cynic]

A spoon of tar on a barrel of honey!
But for some reason, it seems that there is an impression of some personal resentment of the author, hence the throwing used the latest, why not used the latest.
So _ Stay there, come here!
Moreover, with regard to the uniformity of conditions _ IT IS IMPOSSIBLE PRINCIPLE!
Anyone who speaks of equal conditions, either disingenuous, or neither the ear nor the snout understands the subject.

[Russian jacket]

I watched in fits and starts a tank biathlon and some questions arose. Summarizing them, I can say that the art of driver mechanics is certainly good, but, in my opinion, more attention should be paid to the fire component. Shooting on the move, for a while, several shots at different targets, at a moving target, at a helicopter simulator. Ie a complete set of actions necessary in battle. And of course equal requirements for teams. Then it will be a real competition. Otherwise, it will be again like in special forces competitions. The Chinese fired faster than anyone, but not more accurately from the machine gun, and then tore through the penalty circles. As a result, first place

[Zlodeey]

They don’t like the Russian tanks provided, let them bring their own, in their own way, no one is against it.

[major124]

About the T-90MS, too, the reviews are not so hot, and "Breakthrough" exists in a single copy .... Experienced tank drivers, in turn, prefer the T-80U .... It is both reliable and fast, and the OMS is excellent and stands where we need ... damn it, even in tank biathlon we try to ... t opponents. No doping, so a tank with chip tuning ...

[Wedmak]

Well, what does the author accuse Russia of? Maybe it’s better to ask why other countries did not bring their tanks, as the Chinese did. But the Chinese do not dazzle to go ... Not that Armenia or Belarus. What is the problem? This is about the first question.
Question 2: Should there be more? If the tank does not reach the firing line, its weapons are worthless.
Question 3: Collisions apparently really did not take into account. But this is still not a fight, it is a competition. As far as I remember, in any race collision damage is also not taken into account and does not affect the final result.
4 Question:

Who does not have a URO in the tank, let them shoot what they want

In the sense of? The author just sobbed that the bad Russians had slipped bad tanks to the rest, and then immediately "what they want" ???? !!!
Question 5: So probably every tank has a regulated rate of fire. And if the Chinese can do this with the 20-30 km / h, this is only their plus.
Question 6: In my opinion, not only the Chinese fired BOPS, but according to the principle which is more convenient for anyone. Not?

[Raven1972]

I would add the 7th question: How many times did the Chinese change the tank?

[mackonya]

Yes, foreign tanks at biathlon are only a plus.

[Barsik]

The article is utter nonsense of a layman, which the author, as he knows how, tries to expose with truth in a higher instance. Fatty minus the article.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Barsik

The article is utter nonsense of a layman, which the author, as he knows how, is trying to expose as truth in the highest instance.

Sergei! For "presenting" you need to answer!
I am a professional, but in a different field, so I would very much like to hear your professional opinion about where the author is wrong! Only, please, reasonably, so that other professionals and amateurs understand you. Personally, I will be very interested in your professional opinion.
Sincerely.

[Mountain shooter]

The current generals are reading. Kozhugetovich "you can't push", the wrong person. And he did not start this biathlon for show. Such modernization is not about in a couple of weeks - therefore, they will work. There is work to do

[poketuk]

Everything is written correctly. Before the government, the generals must not face our dirt. Here are reinsured

[Signaller]

Why? Yes, just shoot better. The same Belarusian crew, shot past the target like Ethiopians. What does the power of the tank ???? The Armenians in the same tank as the Kuwaitis flew up the mountain into the lungs, and the Kuwaitis barely crawled from the second attempt ???? Therefore, I believe that ours is simply better taught, and in our hearts it is closer to us than to the same Angolans or Ethiopians. And the Chinese leader said. that is not a familiar training ground, apparently everything is arranged differently for them. Well, let them study while we allow.

[Dragon-y]

... And I already wrote, "what will be checked for doping - crews or tanks? .." - that came true :)
I hope that all this is arranged not only for the sake of window dressing - and certain conclusions will be drawn. Including the SLA ...

[goose]

The author asked quite specific questions about the LMS, the design of the screens, the design of the suspension and the stabilizer of the gun, the availability of APU.
There are answers to some questions: a hydromechanical transmission is recognized as necessary (and it needs an engine with 15% more power), improved the FCS (though it needs good tanker training, and not what it is now). APU seems to be there. But in the end, the tank can no longer be completely repaired in the field.
Need another logistics repair facilities.

[Cynic]

Quote: goose

The author asked quite specific questions about the LMS, the design of the screens, the design of the suspension and the stabilizer of the gun, the availability of APU.

If he also said something new, rehashing from a quail more than once. Everything is familiar. The 72-k upgrade began last year. The truth is not to the level of the car in competitions, but _ Not immediately Moscow was built.
Recently here, huh? Surprised by the long-known and discussed more than once.

[brn521]

so what? Russian team: they will not catch up with us. Chinese team: we will not catch up, so the shell will catch up. And they won in the end, it turns out that the Armenians, and as a prize they grabbed a certificate for the T-90 tank. From the point of view of the Armenian military budget, a very serious acquisition. With what I congratulate them.
Well, the author of the article is largely right, so that's a plus.

[AndreyS]

I don’t know how anyone, but I got an ambiguous impression from the article! - well, it seems like everything is described, with evidence, but as in an anecdote - "... I understand what I mean ..... t, but I don't understand where!

[Cynic]

Quote: AndreyS

"... I understand what it is ..... t, but I do not understand where!

Oh, how many wonderful discoveries to us
Prepare an enlightened spirit,
And the experience of the son of errors difficult,
And the genius of paradoxes friend

Dosed truth, the most terrible lie!

[African]

Author +++++ (100). The correct and necessary article. If this is a competition, then everyone should be in the same conditions. If this is fraud, then do not worry, calm down and see what they come up with next year.
Such competitions unambiguously show the strengths and weaknesses of the equipment and crew training, provided that everything is on their own machines and in the same conditions. It is necessary to organize a cup of designers))

[cerbuk6155]

The first international tank biathlon has passed, Shoigu needs to take all the pros and cons out of it and develop it further. The article is correct, all shortcomings must be considered, otherwise the international tank biathlon can burst due to our fault, and many countries will refuse to go to it. And this cannot be allowed.

[Cynic]

Quote: cerbuk6155

may burst due to our fault

If _ We rest against the ground with a horn and we will not improve anything in competitions. But this is more than doubtful.

[dmb]

Dear author You wrote everything correctly. Is it really not clear "why". Yes, for the same as the agromadnitsa screens in an expensive Center where the minister can be seen and his subordinates .. and their uniforms are lovely to see. like a native king, and the words about "tracking" they say are correct and their advisers are 1 meter long. 80 cm. In science, this is called "PR". but in life by spending government money for personal ministerial purposes. It is much easier to train one crew on a specially selected tank than to create an efficient tank army. But more than one crew will fight. Show-off is the main advantage of the new minister, which hardly distinguishes him from the old one. He just stole. and this one with fantasy.

[viach]

Dear dmb! Are you by nature such that you smear everything with black paint or wrote offended?

[dmb]

Dear viach. Are you personally offended by the minister or our army or country? Let, as one guarantor says, separate flies from cutlets. You do not agree that one crew does not fight much. If not, then refute not only me, but also the author. Do you think that against the backdrop of the existing collapse of the defense, the most important thing that you needed to do first of all was to spend the money on an office uniform and a gilded full dress uniform? Do you think that it was right to drive the TU-154 from Moscow to Rostov-on-Don in order to pick up two correspondents who could fly on a regular flight? Then justify the justice of these decisions. The trouble is that the new minister manages the ministry as his patrimony, and not the fact that this is beneficial to the country.

[Salkrast]

Quote: goose

SLAs improved (true for her need good tanker training, and not like it is now).

I just don’t understand what the hell with the MSA need a good preparation?!?! before firing, set the temperature of the charge, the ambient temperature, wear of the barrel trunks. the fire itself is conducted in two clicks - the range measuring button, the fire button (the choice of the type of ammunition and its loading is not considered). and all !!!
What is needed in order to look at a thermometer?

But the fact that the HMS hemorrhoid is in service, demanding precise adjustment and adjustment is already on the conscience of the designers.

[Raven1972]

Quote: Salkrast

I just don’t understand what the hell with the MSA need a good preparation?!?! before firing, set the temperature of the charge, the ambient temperature, wear of the barrel trunks. the fire itself is conducted in two clicks - the range measuring button, the fire button (the choice of the type of ammunition and its loading is not considered). and all !!!

In order for you to understand, you need to put you in a tank and give it a try to do it all, and even at the pace of the automatic loader, then it may work ... Yes, you also need to aim, the tank does not stand still and the enemy tank too .. .
Further introductory: the OMS is out of order. Your actions ? Scatter screaming "Shcha will explode"? Or continue to shoot without the FCS?
P.S. Already got the "specialists" in the tank who had never even sat

[lankrus]

Thank you to the author, the questions raised in the article should be asked by the organizers, because the task is to identify shortcomings in the competition in order to win the battle. All highly patriotic ecstasy and the desire to win by non-sporting methods among the leadership does more harm to the country than good.

[viach]

In order not to talk about dishonesty of competitions like this, you need to attract representatives of different states to develop common international competition rules, and before EVERY subsequent competition, a coordination council from representatives of participating countries should gather to adjust specific upcoming competitions. It is necessary to introduce elements of a (officially) handicap into international rules. Then tanks of different types, different capacities, etc. will be able to compete, to a certain extent, on equal terms.

[perfect100]

Guys, have you forgotten that Armata is already ready? I believe that it will be really the newest and most modern tank! And the latest Chinese crafts on the theme "T-72 with a basket on a tower and a Mercedes engine and a machine gun" will seem like a rarity ...

[Wolka]

Thanks to the author for the analysis, there are indeed a lot of "yes" and "no", but this is just the beginning, I am sure the rules of tank biathlon will be refined and become even more significant for the participants and entertainment for the audience, most importantly, the idea was organized, an appropriate matbase was created and carried out, and this is far from a simple and not a cheap international event ... well done, Russia has something to be proud of, these are not vaunted and sleek NATO members, this is a completely different outlook ...

[special]

You have to work better ... Shoot ... manage ... But the first pancake is lumpy, although not always ...

[romuchik]

An article on the topic is made or invented and held in Russia means shit.
Have you had a competition? spent - good.
Was the event a success? succeeded - good.
Could all countries bring their own equipment? they could - well.
Russia has won? won - well done!
Have you reached the future? worked out - good.
I don’t see a minus in the tank biathlon, they are not there!
Conclusion - the author of the article custom troll.

[23 region]

Well, what about without Psaki? (clickable)

[dsi777]

Funny author And what actually prevented the Chinese from bringing their best tank? Did they forbid them to us? Conspiracy theory The author says that the Chinese fired more accurately, and the author says that the Chinese fired more accurate shells. But the conclusion: old Chinese cars are more accurate than our latest ones. So is it in tanks or is it shells? Or maybe in training? Large penalties for misses, because Is accurate shooting more important in battle than tank mobility? But the author does not mind that the reliability of technology is even more important in battle? The Chinese are somehow not very on this indicator. But we will justify them, that this is perhaps an accident But how, we love everything foreign as Serdyukov ... I personally prefer a tank that shoots at least somehow, but drives. If you really want to bring the competition closer to the actual fighting, then the Chinese needed to be removed from the competition for damage. A stationary tank is an ideal target. Even in auto racing, if you haven’t reached the finish line, then I'm sorry. And do not give any spare car. By the way, accident in shooting is much more likely than in unreliability. You can accidentally shoot perfectly, or you can accidentally shoot badly. Biathlon lovers know. This is a matter of psychology, nerves. In general, I think it's silly to judge tanks and crews at such a short distance. From a mathematical point of view, the sample is too small. Want to know the truth? You need to drive thousands of kilometers and produce hundreds of shots. Then you can judge something. Tank biathlon does not provide this

[Salkrast]

Quote: Raven1972

In order for you to understand need to shove you into the tank and give it a try to do it, and even at the pace of the automatic loader Then it may come ... Yes, also it’s necessary to direct , the tank does not stand still and enemy tank too ...
Further introductory: OMS failed ... Your actions ? Scatter screaming "Shcha will explode"? Or continue to shoot without the FCS?

there is no point in leading a polemic because nefig

1)
2) press 3 buttons it is very difficult ...
3) it is very difficult to induce! Just a titanic work! Already seven sweats coming off (especially when controlling a cheburashka)
4) for the moving target of the OMS, the preemption itself takes
5) Well, the SLA is out of order and what?!?! the usual situation is the eye, rangefinder scales and ballistic tables to help. the order of operations remains almost the same, only what the tank ballistic calculator thought would have to be calculated with his own brain and the aim mark would be adjusted taking into account all the amendments.

[Raven1972]

Quote: Salkrast

5) Well, the SLA is out of order and what?!?! the usual situation is the eye, rangefinder scales and ballistic tables to help. the order of operations remains almost the same, only what the tank ballistic calculator thought would have to be calculated with his own brain and the aim mark would be adjusted taking into account all the amendments.

Will you do this without constant practice? Without training and preparation? And how fast?

Quote: Salkrast

2) press 3 buttons it is very difficult ...

Can you do it on the machine? Not looking ? Not ? Then what is the question ...
Precisely that there will be no controversy, because you represent all this only on paper

[bergberg]

Are these contests necessary or unnecessary? This has already been expressed by the participants themselves. Carefully it was necessary to listen to the tankers themselves and their commanders. And all of them were very pleased that they could see the degree of training of tankers of different countries and there was an opportunity to learn from others. Yes, and our tankers said that the troops began to pay more attention to combat training and shooting, and many tank crews are trying to get out of these competitions. And let the development specialists watch and work.

[Salkrast]

directly about the article itself. not even about the article itself, but the precedent mentioned in the article with two countries that put forward vehicles with clearly better performance characteristics than the rest.

I don’t want to shield my neighbors, but China seems to be to blame for everything! most likely the Chinese rested their horn and the conditions set that they would participate only on this machine and would shoot only with their ammunition. on the part of Russia, as the host of the event, it is not correct to bend under any tricky participants. so they put up a car with comparable parameters. and in order not to over-glow, they decided to shoot like everyone (except China) with conventional ammunition.

[Raven1972]

Quote: Salkrast

I don’t want to shield my neighbors, but China seems to be to blame for everything! most likely the Chinese rested their horn and the conditions set that they would participate only on this machine and would shoot only with their ammunition. on the part of Russia, as the host of the event, it is not correct to bend under any tricky participants. so they put up a car with comparable parameters. and in order not to over-glow, they decided to shoot like everyone (except China) with conventional ammunition.

+ you And by the way, mind you, all this did not stop the Armenian crew on T-72B from taking second place This is about crew training ...

[wbigfire]

And I think that the author is not a troll. And he is not against tank biathlon, like me. But the questions posed to them are quite fair. Yes, this is not a war, but also not quite a sport. Here we need clear regulation: either everyone has the same modification of the tank (then it’s a crew competition), or each team has its own equipment (then this is a competition of the level of its training and tank building concepts), which, in my opinion, is more interesting, because . is a more comprehensive approach.