On the importance of the return of the Russian people to their Russian people

Indeed, firm support and unshakable ground for national consciousness
and self-knowledge always serves national History.
I.Ye. Zabelin

The main weakness of the modern Russian people is a significant loss of memory, the erosion of Russian culture itself, its transformation into Russian-speaking culture. Losing Your Own So, residents of Indian, Chinese, Japanese civilizations carefully keep theirs - their holidays, national clothes, martial arts, beliefs of their ancestors, their names, carefully preserve the memory of their history, without building a blasphemy. Preserve the continuity of generations, educate children through national films, music. Take the same China - in their films, the students of Shaolin defeat all enemies. In reality, China was bit more than once by the northern invaders, by the British, by the Japanese, most of China’s battles are internal disassemblies. China almost always lost to external enemies. But the main thing is that children are brought up on the principles of winners, and not forever whining defeatists.

Why is it that in Russia they also do not carefully preserve or restore the heritage of pagan Russia ?! Why, say, Perun's Day is not celebrated at the national level? We are no longer a Christian country and not atheistic, the Russian Federation is a secular state, and the pagan past is also our heritage. Pre-Christian Russia is just the “Atlantis” of our history, which carries tremendous opportunities for the revival of Russian culture, the Russian Spirit. For example, environmental education, Russian martial arts (they will say no, let's think out!). It is necessary to return to Russian children, and to the adult Russian Gods, our spirits - and then their brains are clogged with all sorts of alien garbage like Hercules, Tarzans, terminators, aphrodite, goblins, elves. This is a real war in the sphere of consciousness: the one who “loads programs” in people's brains is the master. If a Russian person does not have His own head, how can he stand against a stranger and still win ?! Why not create a Russian fashion designers, or rather not restore the Russian style in clothes? To make it beautiful, comfortable and yours - Russian!

Every year, with the mass of events, the Day of the Beginning of Slavic Literature is celebrated, which was given to the “wild” Slavs by the Christian enlighteners Cyril and Methodius. But the same Kirill mentions that he saw two books written by “Russian letters”! There is already a lot of evidence that in pre-Christian Russia there was not even one, but several types of writing.

Creation of Russian fleet associated with Peter the Great. But why are sea trips of Russian princes - Askold and Dir, Oleg, Igor forgotten? Why forgotten the rooks of the Novgorodians, the discovery by the Pomors of Spitsbergen, a flotilla of ear-flies, Cossacks? Russian fleet at least 12 centuries!

February 23 celebrates Defender of the Fatherland Day, and when it was called the Day of the Soviet Army, everything was right and right. But now this day has become the Day of Defender of the Fatherland, it turns out that the soldiers of the Russian Imperial Army, the Russian Tsarist armies, the Russian princely armies have nothing to do with it ?! They have nothing to do with 23 February, since, according to the logic of the renamers, an army was then created, which then participated in the fratricidal Civil War? It would be more accurate to preserve the memorable day of the Soviet Army, and to define the Day of Defender of the Fatherland on one of the memorable days associated with the significant victories of the Russian soldiers. Say, July 3 (capture of Svyatoslav Itil, the capital of the Khazar Kaganate), April 5 (Ice Battle, victory over the Crusaders, Russia over the West) or May 2 (fall of Berlin, surrender of his garrison).

It is time for Russians to remember who we are, that Russia is Russia, not Holland. It's time to learn to respect your past, your roots, and therefore yourself.

Comments

[Konstantm]

Everything is correct. But as usual, the enemies of the whole Russian will howl, because, they say, the Russian chauvinists again dream of the Empire ...

[dimitriy]

Yesterday I came across a link to a video in a YouTube with t. Kandelaki, she stated to the whole country that the Russians as a nation no longer exist, and this has already been proven by scientists (apparently Georgian :)). But THIS is shown on TV !!!! Gon ... sorry, Gordon on TV in his program declares that the greatest tragedy of our time is that some personalities let the Russian people know their real history, which, in his opinion, is of course a complete falsification! That the emergence of a national idea among the Russians will lead to the fact that "out of nothing, nobody will think of themselves as the greatest people on the planet." This is shown on TV, show US, RUSSIAN !!! And we do not care ?????

[Mr.Alphonse]

I hope this is only you have seen)) otherwise - the Riot and all of these Kandelaki and Go .. donov to the gallows, and it is better to quarter, and hang body parts on the Moscow, Kazan, Rostov and Novgorod Kremlin.

[Mr. Truth]

dimitriy
Kandelaki probably rarely happens in his homeland and probably does not notice that the country has long belonged to Turkey. Do not start from this, they are drain barrels and drain barrels from Georgia (I mean journalists).

[S.N.M.]

Rethinking the past and turning history into reality is the first and most important step on the road to the revival of our homeland.

[S.N.M.]

(dimitriy
"Gordon on TV in his program declares that the greatest tragedy of our time is that some personalities let the Russian people know their real history, which in his opinion, of course, is a complete falsification! That the appearance of a national idea among Russians will lead to the out of nothing, think of himself as the greatest people on the planet ")
For Gordon, this is a sore subject: http://rutube.ru/tracks/1037879.html

[Gordon]

What is in the way? Probably many, unlike the author, know the story.
What relation does KIEV RUSSIA have to Russians? Only the most distant.
On the territory of KIEV RUSSIA Slavic tribes lived, but in no way all Slavic tribes can be attributed not only to the Russians, they can not even be attributed to all Ukrainians.
The history of the Russian state should probably begin much later, but not as with the history of KIEV RUSSIA (well, if you do not have your own Russian history).
"... Askold and Dir, Oleg, Igor? ..." Oleg and Igor are princes of KIEV RUSSIA.
Askold and Deer are the most Russian people. You still remember the legendary prince KIA.
THERE WASN'T SUCH A STATE-RUSSIAN RUSSIA, there was a state.-KIEV RUSSIA, Moscow principality, Novgorod, Pskov ..... so on.

[Smirnov Vadim]

But I’m interested in the word "Rus" from what word came or the word "Russians"?

[Joker]

I heard a version from hair color, that is, brown.

[Smirnov Vadim]

I actually meant - is there a connection between these two words? And then Mr. Gordon denies the like.

[dimitriy]

Vadimis
between Kievan Rus and Russians? Of course not what! Kievan Rus was not even inhabited by Slavs, it was inhabited by Rabinovichi from Odessa and pizza delivery men from Pindostana. It was the enlightened Rabinovichi and Gordons who gave such a beautiful name to this unprepossessing terrain, than unusually ennobled it and the people, it was not clear how they appeared, and even calling themselves Rusichs.

[Konstantm]

Who loves History, Russia (Rus), for a start I advise you to read "Memory" by Chivilikhin.

[Vasya]

I am amazed at the authors of such articles.

Comedy!

He writes about Russia before Baptism, about Russia since the time of Princes Oleg and Igor.

And what does Russia have to do with it?

This applies only to Ukraine!

In Central Russia - the Volga-Oksk interfluve of that time, it is not necessary to talk about Oleg and Igor!

And ABOUT FINNO-UGORIAN peoples, their culture and realities!

What does Kiev and Ukraine of that time have to do with Russia?

If you want to study your past, then you need to look for it among Meri, Meshchera, Murom, Mordovians, Vesy, Moksha, Cheremis, Zyryan-Komi, etc.

In short, study the past of the Finno-Ugric peoples.

[Smirnov Vadim]

As Shakespeare said in the 19 sonnet: "Walk, Vasya !!!" (Only old people go into battle)

[Mr.Alphonse]

I bet you're a fool))

[Mr.Alphonse]

But were Igor and Oleg Ukrainians?

[alebor]

Throughout its history, Russia has been a Russian, Orthodox state. The pagan gods (in contrast to the same Japan) have long been forgotten and apart from the names of several of them, we actually do not know anything about them. Trying to revive primitive paganism in traditionally Christian Russia is like trying to dress everyone up in bast shoes and put them on carts, forgetting L. Tolstoy and F. Dostoevsky and reading exclusively J. Tolkien and J. Rowling. Instead of "The Brothers Karamazov" - Harry Potter with the hobbits. I can imagine a picture: on Red Square in Moscow, on the site of the mausoleum, there is an idol of Perun, and sacrifices are being made on the Execution site!

[Mr.Alphonse]

I agree with the author in many ways, but of course you took everything too close to your heart, in many ways the author is right, of course the statue of Perun is too much, but among the pagans, as far as I know, sacrifices were forbidden. We just have to preserve our culture and memory, and disseminate it, for example, the Americans, whose history is short and very meager, but for some reason they managed to make their brand out of hamburgers and cowboys. And we with our thousand-year history cannot. What is the problem? Are we ashamed of her, are we ashamed of our vast rich lands? Are we ashamed that we are Russian? Are we ashamed of our balalaika? Are we ashamed of our brave grandfathers and ancestors who defended our land at the cost of blood and sweat? We didn’t rob her and didn’t graze horses like the same cowboys did, then we are doomed to death.

[Vasya]

dimitriy

In the 19th art. the famous Russian writer Aksakov wrote a letter to Dostoevsky.
In the letter, Aksakov noted that the word "Russians" is abnormal for Russia, the language itself does not tolerate it.

And he asks Dostoevsky, how does an appeal to the people sound throughout Russia? And he himself answers: "Orthodox"!

Of the ethnonyms of the past, one can also name the word "peasant", which comes from "Christian". So the people of the Russian principalities were called in the Golden Horde.

This indicates the enormous role of the Orthodox Church for Russia of those times.

Now with regards to the word "Russians".

Before Peter the Great, until 1721, the word "Russians" is rare, literary, and means a believer in the Russian Orthodox Church, its Moscow branch.

The word "Russian" is of Byzantine origin, the word contains this Greek doubling "-s-". And its meaning is ecclesiastical, not popular.

The analogs of the word "Russian" before 1721 are Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, etc.

Peter the Great in 1721 ordered everyone to be called Russian, that is, he transferred this concept from church confessional to ethnic.

As we see, the rejection of this term lasted until the 19th century.

And further. Do not confuse the word "Russian" and "Russian". The latter is an adjective to the ethnonym "RUSIN", that is, a Ukrainian of the era of princely Rus.

The word "Russian" has no noun, no substantive.
The word "Russian" has a noun, a substantive. This is "Rusyn".

[RUSICH]

Mr. Samsonov well done touches on lively topics.
You need to clean the media, listen to our TV and think that you are behind the hill.
Fresh, security ............ and this is now our speech. It's a shame before the children
they ask what it is, but you don’t know. After all, there is our juice guard.

[Stefano]

Yes reborn great country brothers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SLAVA]

Listen to Vasya!
Before carrying their nonsense to the masses, it would be better if they found out before the victory that there is the concept of the Orthodox. I can give some tips like Nikon and his reform !!!!!)))) By the way, look at the etymology of the word ORTHODOX !!

[dimitriy]

Vasya
amazed by your knowledge in the heart! Maybe also beautifully and reasonably explain what it means: "Ukrainian of the era of princely Rus".

[Uhalus]

It's irony? Then there was no Ukraine yet. Then there were the Rus (Russians - tribes belonging to the Rus). The word "Ukraine" was not liked by the Ukrainians themselves, calling themselves Russians, this word is a name-invention of the 19th century.
But I find the idea of ​​an article on the preservation and knowledge of traditions, love for my history, _zh_and_z_n_n_n_n_n_o_ important for the Russian people. And the importance of this idea will not be interrupted by any "bloopers" of this article.

[Vasya]

RUSICH

First, "rusich" is not a historical word. It is found in one place in all in "The Lay of Igor's Host."

This word is considered a copyist error.

Such a people as Rusich did not exist at all in nature.
From it it is even impossible to create a feminine form.

But in Russia there were Rus. This is confirmed by thousands of documents of those times and later.

Starting with the Treaties of Princes Oleg and Igor with Byzantium, the text contains a clear ethnonym "RUSIN".

In Soviet times, the party falsifiers of history replaced the ethnonym "Rusyn" with "Russians".

They committed forgery, fraud.
And such a blizzard was given to the population to read.

But Rusyns are not Russians. The Rusyns never lived in Veliky Novgorod, the Rusyns never lived in Suzdal, Ryazan, Smolensk, Murom, etc.

Rusin is a Ukrainian.

And now secondly.

Tell me, why in Russian are the names of the months borrowed, Western European? January-February-March-April-May-June-July-August-September-October-November-December.


These are not Slavic names.

Here, for example, the Ukrainian language does not sin.
The Ukrainian names of the months are native, Slavic.
Lime-lutium-birch-tree-quarter-grass-grass-cherten-lipen-sickle-heather-veresen-zhovten-li
stopad-chest.

As you can see, the Russian language loses to the Ukrainian language in its "Slavism" in the simplest examples.

So why do you resent words like "fresh" and "security"?

[SLAVA]

)))) Well, please answer in what language is it written "The word about Igor's regiment !?))
I guess, probably on "urainka move"))))

[Eric]

You are ours, our ancestors had borders, from the Balkans to the northern lands. Muscovites said, walk Vasya! :)

[RUSICH]

Dear Vasily, the whole western world considers us a mistake or
typo. But you know, I’m proud that RUSICH and my children
educate in this spirit

[avreli]

I am "with you" funny, dear.
Wash off your slippers, you can throw yourself.
Well, what the fuck ... the difference was the Russians under Vladimir the Red Sun or not.
What do you, as an impoverished nobility in your ancestors, look for honor ... And yourself?
By the way, the current central Russia is Vyatichi, but Krivichi.
Vyatichi people are very independent, and even Oleg (Prophetic) did not conquer them.
And autonomy was maintained practically until the XIII century, and ethnic identity until the XVIIth.
As a result, they became the ethnic basis of the Chernigov, Ryazan, Smolensk, Vladimir-Suzdal principality. And together with the Ilmen Slavs (Slovenes) and Krivichs created the Russian core. And the Finno-Ugrians assimilated (translated ... literally and figuratively). Do not forget, before the beginning of the 6th century, the birth rate in Russia is 8-XNUMX children.
And what the chroniclers write: Vyatichi and Krivichi are wild people “Not knowing the law of God, but creating the law for oneself”
And then so many smart men gathered ... It's time, it's time ...

[Vasya]

Vadimis

There is a lot of controversy about the origin of the name "Rus".

There are dozens of versions, even about 40 it seems.

But the main two.

Local and Norman.

Most likely, the name Rus is local, because it is known long before Prince Oleg, before the Norman expansion.

The version is that "Rus" is the name of one of the ancient Iranian tribes of the Scythians and Sarmatians.

The Slavs ancestors of Ukrainians living in the territory of modern Ukraine adopted this Iranian name for themselves.

The first mention of the Norse Vikings is their attack on Britain from 787.

But in 4 tbsp. Gothic historian Yordan mentions the Slavic tribe ROSSOMONOV living on the middle and lower Dnieper.

In the middle of 6 tbsp. the Syrian author Pseudo-Zachary Ritor writes about the North Black Sea and Podneprovsky tribes and calls it "ROS".

And there are still plenty of sources.

[Mr.Alphonse]

But about the origin of the word "Ukraine", and so everything is clear.

[bandura70]

I don’t know about Vasya, but I was taught in the old Soviet school that the Eastern Slavs are no more than the ancestors of three peoples, Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians. None of them escaped mixing with other peoples, both passing and living on the territory of the vast East European (Russian) Plain. It is true that modern Russians arose from the mixing of Slavic tribes with the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples, but modern Ukrainians are the result of mixing the Eastern Slavs with the same Fino-Ugrians (Hungarians), Tatars, etc., so that disputes about the degree purity of Slavic blood, in this case, remind of the disputes about the length of the pen ... mzhdu persons of the pubertal period. There are many theories about the origin of the Eastern Slavs. In Soviet times, the textbook was that according to which the Eastern Slavs migrated to the territory of the VER from Central Europe, in several streams, among them one to the middle Dnieper region, another in the interfluve of the Oka and Volga rivers. Later, under the pressure of the Turkic tribes who were exploring the northern Black Sea region, many inhabitants of the Dnieper region migrated to the north. So, according to the Ukrainian patriots, modern Russians can be considered Ukrainians. However, all three "fraternal" peoples have the same dubious attitude towards the inhabitants of the Kyrgyz Republic, as modern Bulgarians towards the South Slavs, i.e. there is no direct, immediate relationship. We are the result of a prolonged incest of the entire complex of peoples living on the territory of the once great state, from which pygmies remained ready, exactly according to Dostoevsky, to tear each other's throats at the first opportunity.

[Vasya]

SLAVA Today, 14:33

)))) Well, please answer in what language is it written "The word about Igor's regiment !?))
I guess, probably on "urainka move"))))

-------------------------------------------------- ----------------

"Word ..." is written in Church Slavonic, the official literary language of the Rusyns (Ukrainians) of that time, with a large number of Ukrainian folk words proper.

The Rusyns themselves (Ukrainians) in the 12th Art. They spoke Ukrainian, or rather, the language that is the direct ancestor of modern Ukrainian.

Before the Church Slavonic Cyril and Methodius (Old Bulgarian) language in Russia, people spoke their own, ancient language of Russia.
Actually, this is Ukrainian.

Church Slavonic in Russia served as the official language of church services, correspondence of the ruling elite, clergy and nobility.

In general, "The Word ..." is a fake of the 18th century, an antique stylization written by a student of the theological seminary Ivan Bykovsky.

And if "The Word ..." was not a fake, but an authentic work, then tell us, WHAT SIDE IS RUSSIA TO the events described in the work?

Events "Words about Igor's regiment" take place in Ukraine, on its lands, concern its people.

And Suzdal, by the way, in those days were allies of the Polovtsy - the enemies of Russia.

So to call "The Word ..." an early, ancient work of "Russian" literature is some kind of perversion.

Well, we understand that Russia did not have literature, and it attributed to itself either the works of others or the falsifications.

By the way, "Zadonshchina" is also a fake.

[SLAVA]

Quote: Vasya

Before the Church Slavonic Cyril and Methodius (Old Bulgarian) language in Russia, people spoke their own, ancient language of Russia. Actually, this is Ukrainian.

))) You yourself probably ride with laughter from what you write !!!! Clever trolling.

Quote: Vasya

Events "Words about Igor's Regiment" take place in Ukraine

Tell me when and as a result, a state like Ukraine appeared ??????

[Joker]

smiled:

Quote: Vasya

Well, we understand that Russia did not have literature,

I wonder who is meant by the word "we" in this saying?

Not a bunch of basement onanist-national-Ukrainians?

PS I have nothing against normal Ukrainians.

[Vasya]

SLAVA Today, 14:16
0
Listen to Vasya!
Before carrying their nonsense to the masses, it would be better if they found out before the victory that there is the concept of the Orthodox. I can give some tips like Nikon and his reform !!!!!)))) By the way, look at the etymology of the word ORTHODOX !!
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
-------------------------------

Ha, so it's not me, but Aksakov! 19 tbsp! ))))

In general, about the ethnonym of Russians before 1721, this is a difficult question.

As Russian historians themselves write, the original inhabitants of Zalesye, Central Russia, WERE NOT NAME ANYTHING.

A people without a name.

Sobolevsky A. I. Russian people as an ethnographic whole. - Lviv, 1911.

Then the Tatars began to call them the word "rayat", which means "herd".

From 14 Art. by faith they began to call them "peasants".

Already with the strengthening of Moscow, the emergence of Muscovy, the words "MOSKOVIT", "MOSKVIN", "MOSKOVITIAN", "MOSKVITIN", "MOSKVICH", "MOSKAL" appeared.

But so they called the inhabitants of neighboring states.

On the lands of Zalesye, the internal ethnonym "peasants" was preserved constantly, without interruption, and from the 15th century. became common.

These Tatars were recorded by non-Muslims by their ethnonym, and future Russians themselves clearly adhered to this ethnonym in order to fix themselves separately from the Tatars.

You can read it in the book.
Grekov B. D. Peasants in Russia from ancient times to the 1952th century. — M.: Publishing House of the USSR Academy of Sciences, 1. Kn XNUMX.

And then there were "Orthodox".

Letters of I. S. Aksakov to F. M. Dostoevsky // Bulletin of the USSR Academy of Sciences. Ser. lit. and language. — 1972. — Vol. 4.— T.— 81.

[Joker]

Quote: Vasya

Then the Tatars began to call them the word "rayat", which means "herd".

by the way
- The Great Lomonosov, later Morozov called into question the fidelity of the theory of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.

[avreli]

Vasya! Encyclopedic you are ours.
Oh well, what's the difference.
You are a smart person, and, you see, educated.
What difference does it make before 1721.
It is important that now!
Here we conducted a study of the genotype-phenotype of the current Russian, generalized portraits were made. The image is not blurry - homogeneous. And I look at one - and for sure - my friend Yura Kotov, and the other - the wife’s mother in her youth - just a photo.
We are! Is there russians in here!
And let the gon ... gordon and tsunarefki shut up.
In general, the filthy words have long been time to hammer in the throats. And so that they couldn’t breathe.
And if we live in different places, or there are no forces, then at least we will formulate clear meanings for young animals.
And do not zami, and empty flicks, such as were "Russian" or "Russian".
And in general, we all owe ...

[Vasya]

dimitriy today, 14:18

Vasya
amazed by your knowledge in the heart! Maybe also beautifully and reasonably explain what it means: "Ukrainian of the era of princely Rus".
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
-----------------------

Rusin is a Ukrainian.

So called Ukrainians from 9 tbsp. 19 tbsp.

And Russia is the plural of the word "Rusin". Then there was no such form as "Rusyns", it appeared later.

Russia as a collective concept of Rusyns (Ukrainians).
The analogies are as follows.

Chudin (unit) - Chud (multip.)

Serbin (unit) - Serbia (multip.)

Rusin (unit) - Russia (multip.)

It also applied to such plural forms as "rabble", "know", "servants".

That is, Russia is the people of Rusyns - Ukrainians.

The Rusyns did not live in Veliky Novgorod or Suzdal, which means that these lands are not Russia.

This is what we see in the annals.

We are reading the Novgorod first annals.

"That's 6643 [1135] .... That's the same for the winter, ide v Rus archepiskop Nifont with the best men and the stagnation of the kiyans with the cernigovtsi stood against you, and many of them;

"That's 6657 [1149]. Ide Archepiskop Novgorod Novgorod Nifont in Russia, called Izyaslav and Klimom metropolitan ... "

"Въ лЂto 6688 [1180]. The prince Mstislav Novgorod - Rostislavits, grandson Mstislavl, ....... And I sent Novgorod to Svyatoslav in Russia by son, and brought Volodymyr to Novgorod, and put him on the table - on August 17 ... "

[Vasya]

dimitriy today, 14:18

Vasya
amazed by your knowledge in the heart! Maybe also beautifully and reasonably explain what it means: "Ukrainian of the era of princely Rus".
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
-----------------------
Read more.

Ipatiev Chronicle.
1187 year.

"... The same days since the great days of the Ambassador, Prince Rurik Hlb Prince Knight Shyurin his wife. Chyurnou with his wife. inject many bor with wives to Yuryevich to the great Vsevolodou in Soudal on Verkhouslavou for Rostislav and on Borish day and Verkhouslavou In the daughter of your great prince Vsevolod and yes, for her, a great deal of the multitude was free of gold and silver, and give your swat a great gift, and with great honor, let Exh, according to your daughter's sweetheart, become three and a cry for goodbye and mute zeanier b mila ima and mlada sushi mass media lt and so many gift dav and let go to Russia with great love for the prince of Roslav ..."

That is, Prince Rurik of Kiev sent to Suzdal to marry the 8-year-old daughter of Prince Vsevolod Verkhuslav for his son Rostislav.
Prince Vsevolod gave a large dowry for his daughter and "let her go to Russia."

And then there.
"... take Rurik Rostislavou Velmy Silnoe Svadbou aka there is no beval in Rousy and bsha at weddings knzi mnozi for knzi demolition of his own gave many gifts and the city of Brgin is the same matchmaker and let him go to Vsevolodou to Soudal with great honor and a gift to many ..."

That is, Prince Rurik celebrated a big wedding for his son, "which never happened in Russia," and the matchmaker and boyars "let him go to Vsevolod in Suzdal."

And there are plenty of such evidence in the annals, which indicate that Veliky Novgorod and Suzdal did not enter into Russia.

We went from Novgorod to Russia, from Suzdal to Russia, and from Russia to Novgorod, and from Russia to Suzdal.

And this is in the 12th century!

In the 19th century, closer to the end of the century, Rusyns were renamed into Ukrainians.

In the Carpathians, a small number of non-renamed Rusyns still remained, that is, this process was not completed and stopped in the Carpathians.

[Vasya]

Joker Today, 16:27
The great Lomonosov, later Morozov, called into question the fidelity of the theory of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------

That's right, there was no yoke.

The forest was actually the northern part of the state of the Golden Horde.

This was the Golden Horde itself.

How can there be a "yoke" in relation to your state?

This is the same as saying, for example, that Krasnoyarsk is under the Russian yoke.

[Joker]

The Golden Horde, with the capital consisting of a ring of cities (it is also the golden ring of Russia, Yaroslavl, etc.)

[dimitriy]

Vasya
I wish you a speedy recovery, otherwise you’ll be late ....

avreli
very well said, thanks!

[rumpeljschtizhe]

..all the Intersen from where the image of the Tatar of that period arose

[Joker]

The theory was created by two Prussian professors (I don’t remember the names of Lomonosov’s contemporaries), and then intensively supported, perhaps this theory was to the hand of the Romanov family.

[Vasya]

SLAVA Today, 15:45

Tell me when and as a result, a state like Ukraine appeared ??????

Ukraine is a recreated state of Russia.

The same people - Rusyns Ukrainians.

The language is the same - Russian Ukrainian (but not Russian), (of course, has undergone changes over a long period, but not dramatic).

Geographically, Ukraine is in the same place as Russia.

Attributes in Ukraine is the same as in Russia.

The trident is the heraldic sign of the princes of Russia Svyatoslav, Vladimir the Great, Yaroslav the Wise.

The flag is yellow-blue. The colors of the princes of Russia.

Money. Hryvnia - monetary units of Russia.

Name Ukraine - the second name of Russia since 1187.

What about Russia?

The redone Dutch flag - the tricolor, the coat of arms - the Byzantine, the Monomakh hat - and that Tatar, made by oriental masters in the Golden Horde.

And for some reason, Russia, not Russia. Strange name change.

The answer is simple.

Everyone in Europe and the East knew what Russia was and where it was located. It is Ukraine.

And Muscovy could not be called Russia, otherwise it would be idiocy.

Moreover, Peter the Great was afraid that if he called his Muscovy "Rus", then everyone would perceive it as secondary, annexed Russia. But that didn’t suit him.

He longed for primacy, therefore he called himself a term from the language of another state.

Question. Who calls his country a name from the language of a foreign state?

[dimitriy]

Vasya Today, 16:48
and where is the answer? where is at least one mention of a Ukrainian? Maybe because the first mention of Ukraine pops up only in the nineteenth century? Why did you get the idea that Ruthenian is Ukrainian, not Belarusian, Russian, or maybe Moldovan at all? Only on a territorial basis? Do not fool us. We are one people, well, probably except Vasi from Lviv - he is from another planet.

[Konstantm]

Vasya ... In the 19th century, closer to the end of the century, the Rusyns were renamed into Ukrainians ...

Rather, they were renamed malorosov, Ukrainians already at the advice.

[Lightforcer]

Vasisualiy, and what kind of continuity can Kievan Rus and Ukrainians be talking about? You do not have a relationship with her. (at least direct). Your language has little in common with Old Russian, look carefully, 70% of the words are taken from Polish. As for the name of the months, as a rule, all knowledge in the language ends there. By God it’s funny, you are far from the first Ukrainian who writes such things. You are so formulaic and predictable. Feeling brainwashing. I am interested in languages, so it’s ridiculous for me to read statements about Old Ukrainian and Old Bulgarian. The linguist will generally break such sayings to pieces. Rusky by the way - Ukrainism, nowhere and never have the inhabitants of Russia been called so, but it is funny that the inhabitants of the Moscow principality call themselves Rusyns in ancient writings. What is not surprising, the people in Russia alone.

[Vasya]

bandura70 Today, 15:24 PM

The ancestors of the Ukrainian people are 7 East Slavic peoples.
glade, Drevlyane, Siveryan, street, Volhynian, Tivertsy, white Croats.

The ancestors of the Belarusian people are 4 East Slavic people.
Krivichi, Dregovichi, Radimichi, Polotsk.

The East Slavic people of Novgorod, who are a mixture of Slovenes and Scandinavians - a separate people - were completely destroyed in the 16th century. Muscovy.

This people is no more.

And who are the ancestors of the Russian people?

Vyatichi is a small tribe that has dissolved in the Finno-Ugric Sea of ​​Central Russia.

Russian ancestors have Finno-Ugric tribes.
Meria, Meshchera, Murom, Mordovia, Erzya, all, moksha, wild birds, Komi zyryans, etc.

There were no movements of the Slavs in the forest to the Finno-Ugric lands.

This is not documented, nor archaeologically, nor culturally, in any way.

And even more so, with regard to the geographical nomenclature of Central Russia, even now, after 1000 years of renaming, more than 50% of the hydro- and toponyms of Central Russia are Finno-Ugric.

Example.

The Finno-Ugric village of Saarskaya Myza was renamed Tsarskoye Selo, then Detskoe Selo, then the city of Pushkin.

The most famous Finno-Ugric names.
Moscow, Sudzhal, Volga, Oka (Finnish Jok - river), Kama, Ryazan (Erzya), Vologda, Vychegda, Scheksna, etc.

And Belarusian Smolensk was annexed by force to Muscovy in the 16th century. He and the Ukrainian Kuban and Sloboda are not taken into account.
These are the lands of Belarusians and Ukrainians, which are part of Russia and declared "Russians".

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Fomenko and Nosovsky spoke about this topic best of all in their "New Chronology". Check out if you're interested, there are both books and movies on torrents.
And it will become clear where the Ukrainian hands that founded Russia come from. And why we are so "loved" abroad.
Look, you will not regret.

Vasya, you should not look / read.

[Vasya]

avreli Today, 15:07

Vyatichi dispersed in the Finno-Ugric Sea, and there was no mention of them.

Too few of them will be Slavs in the entire Finno-Ugric gene pool.

Sloven Novgorod and Pskov do not sculpt.

This separate nation was completely knocked out, destroyed under the root of Muscovy in the 16th century. This is after the plague, when so many of them died.

After this Novgorod pogrom, according to travelers, Novgorod, after 15 years, was unpopulated and lay in ruins.

As for the Krivichs, these are the ancestors of Belarusians.

Do you really want to say that Russians come from Belarusians?

Center Krivichy Smolensk, yes.

But you forget that Smolensk was annexed, cut off from the rest of Belarus (then Lithuania) in the 16th art.

It was a foreign people to Moscow and Russia, because in the second half of the 18th century. (!!!) Catherine the Second issued a decree on the forcible Russification of the Smolensk region.

That is, Smolensk did not speak Russian (in Moscow) right up to the end of the 18th century!

The movements of the Slavs from Novgorod, Smolensk, Chernigov to the Finno-Ugric Zalesye were fragmented.

This was written by the famous Russian historian Lubavsky.

He proved that the Slavs crashed into the Finno-Ugric Sea of ​​Central Russia in small islands.

Naturally, the Slavs could not radically influence Finno-Ugric reality.

Lubavsky writes that in the 14-16 st. on the main territory of the Moscow state abound non-Russian names of settlements (volosts and camps), independent, not taken from rivers, lakes and other tracts.

But the time of the ethnogenesis of the Russian people seemed to have passed long ago.

And actually Russian culture is a Finno-Ugric culture.

This can be read from Prince Trubetskoy.

Trubetskoy N. S. On the problem of Russian self-knowledge.

[avreli]

Vasya, "Ukrainian" you are our beloved.
I, as a third "crest" allow myself to speak out of the Russian community.
1. Do not touch Sivertsev - Northerners, most of them in Russia.
2. The Drevlyans of the glades hated from time immemorial, for which they broke Igor.
3. Streets (the current inhabitants of Odessa), Volhynians, Tivertsy and White Croats - you can leave yourself. But will they agree?
4. And "ukram" should stop trading in girls - you have been bleeding the nation from the XNUMXth century.
5. In general, Kiev is not yours. "Moskalsky", and Novogorodsky princes competed for him for centuries since the XIth.
So Yura Dolgoruky rested in a laurel.

[Vasya]

dimitriy today, 17:17

and where is the answer? where is at least one mention of a Ukrainian? Maybe because the first mention of Ukraine pops up only in the nineteenth century? Why did you get the idea that Ruthenian is Ukrainian, not Belarusian, Russian, or maybe Moldovan at all? Only on a territorial basis? Do not fool us. We are one people, well, probably except Vasi from Lviv - he is from another planet.

The first mention of Russia as Ukraine is in the Itatiev Chronicle.
1187 year. And then constantly.


The name "Ukraine" for Rus, for the Rusyns, was their own, dear, well known throughout history.

So the renaming of Rusyns to Ukrainians in the 19th century. went fine.

Rusin is a Ukrainian.

With 9 tbsp. 17 tbsp. there are thousands of documents, political, legal, church, that say that in the Russo-Litovsk era, and in the Cossack era the national territory of Ukraine was called Rus, and its people were Rusyns.

This is confirmed by such documents of those times: annals, chronicles, memoirs, acts of land, privileges, wills, books of records of the Lithuanian metric, Ruska metric, etc.

Smotrytsky wrote in the 17th century: "It is not faith that makes Rusin a Rusyn, a Pole a Pole, and Lytvyn a Lithuanian, but the birth and blood of Russian, Polish and Lithuanian."

Ivan Vyshensky signed himself "Ioan Rusyn Vyshensky".

Etc.

By the way, Litvin is a Belarusian. Belarus then is Lithuania.

[Eric]

Ahh, Lithuanian metric ... You indicate at least one normative act! Well, for example, Zemsky reform, or a criminal judge what thread.

[Vasya]

avreli Today, 17:50

Vasya, "Ukrainian" you are our beloved.
I, as a third "crest" allow myself to speak out of the Russian community.
1. Do not touch Sivertsev - Northerners, most of them in Russia.
2. The Drevlyans of the glades hated from ancient times, for which they broke Igor. smile
3. Streets (the current inhabitants of Odessa), Volhynians, Tivertsy and White Croats - you can leave yourself. But will they agree?
4. And "ukram" should stop trading in girls - you have been bleeding the nation from the XNUMXth century.
5. In general, Kiev is not yours. "Moskalsky", and Novogorodsky princes competed for him for centuries since the XIth.
So Yura Dolgoruky rested in a laurel.

As for siveryan.
Is Chernigov really in Russia? Is Novgorod-Siversky really in Russia?

And Sloboda - Kursk, Voronezh, Belgorod, Oryol, Starodubshchina (Bryansk) - these are Ukrainian lands that after the revolution went to Russia.

In the USSR, Soviet anthropologists established the complete anthropological identity of the population of Kursk-Voronezh with the population of Central Ukraine - the middle Dnieper.

So the Siverians are Ukrainians, Ukrainian lands in Russia.

Farther.

Conflicts in Russia - this is not news. Is this a historical discovery?
No one argues that there were strife.

Then, in general, Chernihiv was a grave competitor to Kiev.

Streets, tivertsy, white Croats - these are in the past the closest possible relatives of glades, drevlyans, siveryans.

Who to share? One family?

There has long been no separation. This is one single Ukrainian people.

Share only in Moscow.

And Moscow itself carefully erases its differences, screaming from morning till night about the "single Russian people."

This is called "Byzantine". Divide and Conquer.

As for prostitution, this is a phenomenon of any country.

Prostitution has no national identity. Like corruption.

Kiev is not ours? ))))

Is he in the Moscow region?

Now, if Kiev was there, then you would say that it is yours. ))))

There was such an anecdotal case in 1996, it seems. Everyone who only knew laughed at him.

A tourist from Vologda came to Kiev, went, examined the Hagia Sophia.

And he says: "And how did the khakhly manage to seize our primordially Russian city of Kiev?" ))))

Ahhhh! Everyone fell out there!

This is what the Moscow absurdity and fooling of people bring to.

About Dolgoruky.
He is not a Russian leader.

This is a Ukrainian prince who is known for scandals in his family with his brothers.

Dolgoruky has nothing to do with Russia, since then Russia was not in nature.

[Cheese]

All right, Vasya. Of course I understand your knowledge of history, but I was especially impressed with Kursk, Orel, Bryansk and other cities. If you know the history of Ukraine, then at least share sources, why did the Vyatichi lands suddenly become Ukrainian? Or do Russian historians lie in this regard?
As for your other historical and linguistic research - after the weekend, God forbid, and talk.
And about Dolgoruky - of course he is a true Ukrainian, he founded Moscow according to the historical tradition, and therefore Moscow belongs to all of Ukraine, or Moscow to Ukraine - of your choice.

[Vasya]

avreli Today, 17:50

Vasya, "Ukrainian" you are our beloved.
I, as a third "crest" allow myself to speak out of the Russian community.
1. Do not touch Sivertsev - Northerners, most of them in Russia.
2. The Drevlyans of the glades hated from ancient times, for which they broke Igor. smile
3. Streets (the current inhabitants of Odessa), Volhynians, Tivertsy and White Croats - you can leave yourself. But will they agree?
4. And "ukram" should stop trading in girls - you have been bleeding the nation from the XNUMXth century.
5. In general, Kiev is not yours. "Moskalsky", and Novogorodsky princes competed for him for centuries since the XIth.
So Yura Dolgoruky rested in a laurel.

Read more.

In general, this is arrogance.

Released from the bowels of the Golden Horde, a by-product of the Muscovy political party - claims to the Kiev legacy!

And on what basis?

Only on the fact that Muscovy self-proclaimed itself Russia in 1721?

This is any rogue from the street, can change his name to yours, avreliand claim your apartment, stating that he is yours "original elder brother from the same family".

[Fedor]

Here the public, complexing from its inferiority, is trying to prove something, such as the fact that as soon as a number of Finno-Ugric tribes were dissolved in the mass of Slavic tribes and Russified, because of this, the Russians can not be considered these same Russians, etc. etc. Let me remind the uneducated of a number of unpleasant things for their Svidomo consciousness. The process of mixing tribes and peoples has been going on continuously from the moment the tribes and peoples arose. Consider this phenomenon on the example of the current inhabitants of the territory that previously belonged to Kievan Rus. I must say right away that all the facts I have cited are strictly scientific conclusions. Proven and proven. And if someone did not know this, this is his problem. Although of course these facts were not advertised either in tsarist or in Soviet times. So, let's begin.
1. Ukrainian surnames on "O" are Polovtsian surnames, tk. these are Polovtsian suffixes and endings.
2. Ukrainian surnames on "UK" and "YUK" are Pechenezh surnames, tk. these are the Pechenezh suffixes and endings.
3. Ukrainian surnames on "YAN" are Gagauz surnames, tk. these are Gagauz suffixes and endings.
Thus, 3/4 of Ukrainians bear the names of Turkic-Tatar origin.
In the meantime, I remind lovers of purity of blood that the city of Cherkasy (the core of Ukraine, by the way) is named after the name of the autochthonous people living there - the Circassian. I will also add that the following autochthonous peoples lived in the territory of modern Ukraine since the pre-Mongol period - Torques (i.e., Türks), Berendeys, Pechenegs, Polovtsy, black hoods (i.e. Kara-Kalpaki), etc. You can list for a long time, all of them were tribes of Turkic origin and EVERYTHING, I emphasize especially for lovers of purity of blood - ALL of them were safely dissolved in the current Ukrainian people. If someone believes that mixing with the Türks is better than mixing with the Finno-Ugric peoples, then I bet. Having taken the same position as the self-proclaimed Aryans, I affirm that mixing with the Finno-Ugric peoples is better for the simple reason that the Finno-Ugrians are white Caucasians. And I’ll inform you in my hymn that they’re telling the Cossack family that the self-designation of the Cossacks as a professional military caste came from the self-designation of the people who lived in that place, the autochthon — the Kazakhs (their country is called Kazakhstan).
You can find a lot of interesting things on the Internet, well, for example: http://vlalut.narod.ru/13.html

[Vasya]

Banshee Today, 17: 42

I did not read Fomenka and Nosovsky.

All that I write is according to Russian sources.

Just remove the fake pseudo-historical terms - and everything falls into place.

Instead of Karamzin "Kievan Rus" - simply Rus.

Instead of the "old Russian nationality", the incomprehensible "Russians" - the Rusyns.

Instead of "Russian princes" - Russian princes.

And away all sorts of fabrications of Karamzin and Pogodin such as "Moscow Rus", "Novgorod Rus", "Suzdal Rus", "Vladimir Rus", "North-Eastern Rus".

Such states were never in history!

Not a single historical document has such names!

That's it.

[Vasya]

Fedor Today, 18:58

Stupidity.

Firstly, it is about Russia, not Ukraine. And you translate the topic. This is called manipulation.

Secondly, not new.

Even before the revolution, Ukrainophobes and chauvinists, the Black Hundreds tried to "prove" that there was no Ukrainian people, but a rabble of unknown origin.

And this text wanders in the internet one to one. I have seen him more than once.

He proceeds from the version that the Ukrainians, whom Muscovy used to call "Cherkasy", seem to come from either the Tatars or the Circassians.

A clear explanation for this has not yet been found.

Circassians - this is one of the versions, unproven.

In general, Muscovy called Cherkasy Ukrainians, and this suggests that the Muscovites had no idea what kind of people live in Russia, Ukraine, Moscow was a stranger to Russia.

Who invented this in Muscovy is unknown and lost in history.

There is a more serious argument in this matter - anthropology, and not the fabrications of medieval Muscovy. There were plenty of anthropological expeditions in the USSR, and the question was clarified to the maximum.

Ukrainians are Slavs. Moreover, more homogeneous than, for example, the French, or Germans, or Italians.

Impurities in the Ukrainians are of course.
These are ancient Iranian impurities. Scythians and Sarmatians.

As well as the Scandinavians.

The remaining impurities are insignificant and reional.

But the Russians are wow! It’s too old to climb, as everything is mixed up there.

It depends on which region of Russia.

Central Russia - Finno-Ugric of course.

But it normal.

There are no unworthy peoples.

[Vasya]

KonstantM Today, 17:20

Vasya ... In the 19th century, closer to the end of the century, the Rusyns were renamed into Ukrainians ...

Rather, they were renamed malorosov, Ukrainians already at the advice.

Well no. Malorosov was invented by Peter the Great.

This is a Byzantine church term.

Naturally, "little trees" were rejected by the Ukrainians, and this term disappeared.

And the renaming of Rusyns into Ukrainians is the second half - the end of the 19th century.

[pav]

Vasya is beautiful! I respect

[Mr.Alphonse]

Bob in anger, wrote here, no one reads.

[spirit]

at the expense of the golden horde !!! And who, then, in 1387 did Timur persecute ??? Khan Tokhtamysh to whom he helped to break through to power so that he would shield him from the white horde and cover his borders. and he betrayed him, for which he paid, ,,,, the horde was rich, so he plundered it, but did not go to Russia because the poor was ...

[Vasya]

spirit Today, 02:54

Yes. Naturally, the capital of the Horde, Sarai and the court areas were rich.

And the northern part of the Golden Horde - Zalesye, was poor.

Yes, and they are far away.

And the truth is that Tamerlan, his military operations undermined the Golden Horde.
And the strife finally destroyed her.

Although, the decline of the Golden Horde gave way to the rise of the Crimean Khanate and the Giree dynasty.

Instead of Sarai, Bakhchisaray became the leader.

[Vasya]

Lightforcer Yesterday, 17:26

Vasisualiy, and what kind of continuity can Kievan Rus and Ukrainians be talking about? You do not have a relationship with her. (at least direct). Your language has little in common with Old Russian, look carefully, 70% of the words are taken from Polish. As for the name of the months, as a rule, all knowledge in the language ends there. By God it’s funny, you are far from the first Ukrainian who writes such things. You are so formulaic and predictable. Feeling brainwashing. I am interested in languages, so it’s ridiculous for me to read statements about Old Ukrainian and Old Bulgarian. The linguist will generally break such sayings to pieces. Rusky by the way - Ukrainism, nowhere and never have the inhabitants of Russia been called so, but it is funny that the inhabitants of the Moscow principality call themselves Rusyns in ancient writings. What is not surprising, the people in Russia alone.

Ukraine and Ukrainians are not related to Russia?
They have, uncle, have.

The geographic coordinates are the same.
The people are the same.
The language is the same.
The way of life is the same.

If this is the same, then why are you saying that it is OTHER?

Now, if Russia was on the Indigirka River, then you would give us claims.

But Russia was on the Dnieper River and generally in the territory from the Carpathians to Kursk.
There we are.

Farther.
There is no "Old Russian" language.
Russian language of recent origin, from the 17th Art.

If 17 Art. it is "ancient", then you have strange ideas about antiquity.

Russian is young, and it just really does not have ancient forms.

Farther.
In Ukrainian, 70% of Polish words?
Only Polish in Ukraine is almost not understood by anyone.

Strange. You are a specialist in linguistics.

The closest to the Ukrainian language is not Polish, but Belarusian. 82% of the total vocabulary.
Here is the Belarusian language understood by Ukrainians without learning.
"Mowing Yas stables, looking at the divine" is almost Ukrainian.

Regarding the Polish coincidences in the Ukrainian language, this is not serious.

Such coincidences are found in other Slavic languages. Czech, Slovak, Serbian, Croatian, Macedonian.

This suggests that the Ukrainian language, and Belarusian as well, are languages ​​with a deep old connection with all Slavic languages.

Farther.
In the Moscow principality met Rusyns. As guests. I do not argue. Units.

And Ukraine is a whole country of Rusyns.

[Vasya]

Ost Today, 01:04 AM

All right, Vasya. Of course I understand your knowledge of history, but I was especially impressed with Kursk, Orel, Bryansk and other cities. If you know the history of Ukraine, then at least share sources, why did the Vyatichi lands suddenly become Ukrainian? Or do Russian historians lie in this regard?
As for your other historical and linguistic research - after the weekend, God forbid, and talk.
And about Dolgoruky - of course he is a true Ukrainian, he founded Moscow according to the historical tradition, and therefore Moscow belongs to all of Ukraine, or Moscow to Ukraine - of your choice.

Earth Vyatichi?

Well, Vyatichi has long been gone. They resolved among the Finno-Ugric peoples.
Even mention of them does not exist.
There is nothing by which they could be distinguished and identified.

How can there be someone's land, who is not?

Kursk, Voronezh is the land of the Siverian, part of the Ukrainian people.

About Dolgoruky.
Most likely, he did not establish Moscow.

The official circles of Russia took data from a dubious and unverified source as the beginning of Moscow.

This insert in the annals was found by Karamzin, so to speak, "wonderful."

And this was when Catherine II was actively rewriting history. Burned the originals of chronicles and "made" copies.

Specific information about Moscow is 1272. Under Khan Mengu-Timur. Census of the Suzdal population.

In the census of 1252, the village of Moscow is absent.

About Dolgoruky.

There was no inheritance for him in Russia, and he could not take the southern lands, everything was taken apart.

So he wandered into the Finno-Ugric northeast, to take the worst lands for himself.

In general, the Rurik family was large and branched.

Yuri Dolgoruky was the youngest Monomakhovich.

And there were Olgovichi, etc.

Dolgoruky did not have any dynastic rights.
And his descendants too.

And in order to own Russia, Kiev - it was generally unheard of.
Not that Kiev, neither Chernigov, nor Veliky Novgorod, nothing.

The descendants of Yuri Dolgoruky began to rule the principalities only with the filing of khans.

Regarding this, Konstantin Ostrogsky was indignant.
He was from the Rurikovich clan and had much more rights to own Zalesye, Moscow, etc.

[Cheese]

No mention of Vyatich? My friend you do not know the story at all. Have you been to the Oryol Museum of Local Lore? And say it there. It certainly is good to say categorically no and never was. Reminds historian Suvorov.
About the Finno-Ugric peoples. Yes, such a group of tribes was and is, but Slavic tribes forced them to the north, and not vice versa. Otherwise, we would not speak Russian, but Hungarian, for example.
Further, this is how to understand your maxim like - Siveryans, Krivichi and other parts of some people there, it does not matter Russian or Ukrainian? I understand that such a tribe was part of the Slavs living in the territory of modern Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or Poland.
And in general, a beautiful substitution of the Slavic people, for Ukrainians or Russians. Moreover, find out which of them is older. By historical standards, that the Poles, that the Russians or the Belarusians are twin brothers, though someone has become more cool than everyone else.

[Rusyn]

1. Ukrainian surnames on "O" are Polovtsian surnames, tk. these are Polovtsian suffixes and endings.
2. Ukrainian surnames on "UK" and "YUK" are Pechenezh surnames, tk. these are the Pechenezh suffixes and endings.
3. Ukrainian surnames on "YAN" are Gagauz surnames, tk. these are Gagauz suffixes and endings.
------------
Boo-ha-ha-ha .... Muscovite delirium, the Muscovites are completely crazy. Interestingly, are the Indo-European surnames of Romanians and Moldovans like Chaushes + ku (ko) and Popes + ku (ko) also non-Indo-European? Muscovites need to learn Slavic languages, or else complete nonsense in the brain after the yoke of Mungal was formed. Now they will begin to declare the most ancient Slavic vocabulary such as "rukh" or "ganba" as Turkisms. Well, this is from a lack of intelligence and stupidity due to isolation from the Slavs as such and the oversaturation of the Muscovite language with Bulgarisms as a result of which the perception of other Slavic languages ​​as such was dulled.
The Ukrainian language is the only Russian language. In it today where from 1% -3% to 5% percent of polonisms, depending on the texts, for comparison in the Muscovite language, only Bulgarianisms with the same calculation method will be from 15% -20% to 40% -60% !!!
Here is a quote from "The Word about the Shelf"

And my ty smoke
Svidomi Kmeti

Any "svidomit" understands everything: "and my inhabitants of Kursk are well-known, skillful, conscious people, peasants, etc." For Muscovites, the perception of this text will cause difficulties.

So Svidomi kmeti (from Ukrainian. Kmitlivy ie smart, masterful. Kmet is an intelligent person, peasant, warrior, man) already lived in our Ukrainian (istinorussky) Kursk. The inhabitants of both Rus and Kursk were "svidomites", i.e. Rusyns-Ukrainians. And then there was 1933 and Kursk and Kuban and Starodub were torn from the mother of Rus-Ukraine.

And there are thousands of such examples !!!

[Vasya]

Rusin Today, 05:45

Yes.

[Vasya]

pav Yesterday, 22:47

))))

[bandura70]

The discussion has clearly gone sideways. Vasya must be given his due. He managed to force those present to defend their right to be called Russian, using completely scientific arguments. But behind this scientific form lies an obvious desire to prove the ethnic inferiority of Russians. In general, quite in the spirit of Goebbels propaganda. To do this, there was no need to strain your intellect, you just had to say that you are a Russian herd, cattle that have nothing to do with either the Slavs or Rus'. And everything would be clear to us. The essence of this Russophobic thinking is clearly presented in one popular joke: The project of a monument to the hero of the UPA is being discussed. First option: There is a hero, a machine gun in his left hand, a Muscovite in his right. Another option: a trident in the right hand, a Muscovite in the left. Then the most important one arrives and says: “That’s right, there’s a trident in the right, a Muscovite in the left. And the shroud is fresh every day.” The origin, evolution, current existence and prospects of this phobia are a topic for a separate conversation and in another field.
In this case, it would be interesting to return to the issue of the Russian idea. How would we like to see our state? What is our mission in this world? What should and can we do for this?

[Smirnov Vadim]

We are one people: Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. And we have the same story. And it’s not worth sharing!

[bandura70]

I also think that it shouldn’t be divided, but others think differently. And as long as they think so, the Russians will be forced to prove that they are not a camel. Moreover, the relevance of the topic is supported by the geopolitical situation of the modern world. The Ukrainian people have the opportunity to create their own independent national people, and like any people they need their own national idea. The problem is that since the times of the empire we have had one historical space. So the Westerners are trying to snatch their own space from this space, and thus create their own national myth.

[consul]

Vasily, I am also a descendant of Ukrainians. My ancestors (from the Streltsy and Cossacks) were sent at one time to protect UKRAINIAN lands, only these lands are located thousands of kilometers from Kiev, namely the eastern bank of the Volga (the border line is Eryklinsk, Simbirsk, Tiinsk , Menzelinsk and others - Ukrainian or outlying settlements-fortresses for border guards). I myself live in these same areas and, I must say, we are mixed with Finno-Ugric people so minimally that you can’t even imagine. For example, anyone will say - there a Mordovian village, a Chuvash village there, a Tatar village there, i.e. settlements on a national basis. And it has always been like this. In our family, it was not even customary to mix with other nationalities due to different languages ​​and traditions, not at all out of hostility. Among the Chuvash until the end of the 19th century. it was customary to place babies under the gates (an ancient pagan custom). On the issue of the supremacy of Kyiv, yes it was, but then the Great Reign (that is, supremacy) passed to Vladimir (the name was Vladimir Rus), and then to Moscow, and then to St. -Petersburg, who returned to Moscow after the coup of 1917, while the state was the same. This is a well-known fact. And 90% of us here are Russians - fair-haired and light-eyed, and Russians living on the outskirts (in your opinion, "in Ukraine" ) black-browed and dark-eyed (of course not all, but a much larger percentage than ours), which indicates the influence of the Turks (black is the dominant color and you can’t get away from it) - this is about the issue of purity of blood. What do we (your opponents) want to say this is that we are brothers and should stand up for each other like a mountain, and not “my hut is on the edge.” It won’t work on the edge also because when they take a city (large) surrounding towns, the villages are destroyed so as not to interfered. That’s what will happen if they take on Russia (you won’t last long).

[bandura70]

The fact of the matter is that they don't want to be together. Westerners prove to you that we are not brothers, they have a different history and a different future. They do not want to be an outpost of Russia in the confrontation with the West. They are an outpost of the West in its confrontation with Russia. And no scientific, pseudoscientific, moral or any other arguments can correct this. It is absorbed with mother's milk. This is an enemy in its purest form, who had Russian blood already in the 90s. in the Caucasus, selling weapons to Georgia with the obvious purpose of opposing Russian interests in Transcaucasia. So, they fight not only on the ideological field, but also on the battlefield.

[dimitriy]

Fedor Yesterday, 18:58
Hey Fedor, well done! What a job Vasilko did! He was completely confused, began to panic and shout about changing the topic, that we were talking about Russia. Apparently Vasya has a manual on what to say about Russia, but nothing to say about Ukraine. Vasya cannot protect Ukraine, he can only vulgarize Rus'.

[Vasya]

Eric Yesterday, 18:46

Ahh, Lithuanian metric ... You indicate at least one normative act! Well, for example, Zemsky reform, or a criminal judge what thread.

The question is not debatable.

Are you not satisfied with the agreements between princes Oleg in 911 and Igor in 945 with the Greeks?
Just read in the original, and not in the Soviet “retelling”.


Here is an atlas of the Russian Empire. At the same time as the imperial “Little Russians”, “Rusyns” is also written.

I will specifically clarify about the official state documents of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania or the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
At the same time, I’ll find out what happened there in the Cossack powers.

[Vasya]

Map.

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D
0%93%D1%96%D0%BA%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%D1%811907%D0%A4%D1%80
%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82.jpg

[slan]

Question for the administration: isn’t it time to stop allowing crooks to access the resource? You can, of course, not pay attention, but after all, they’ve messed everything up. Is this a topic about the great Ukrainian-Russians? Sometimes I would like to really discuss something, but all around are these friends of the steppes with a European inferiority complex... We are talking specifically about the Ukrainians, not to be confused with the Ukrainians. And you, Vasya, since you somehow miraculously learned, look at the maps of the Khazaria, the Golden Horde. These states with your ancestors in their composition existed for thousands of years, unlike Ukraine, which will not exist again in twenty years and in twenty maximum. Therefore, your destiny, together with other descendants of the Kipchaks, is to cover toilets with tiles - this, at best, is to choke on your own shit in impotent anger. I hate how the doctors are, but I really got imbecile and trashed the entire tape for two days.
p.s. Yes, only in Kazakhstan they ghek, not a single European nation utters such sounds. Kyrgyzstan, Baki, Kyyiv.. Says nothing? Rusin, damn it)))

[Vasya]

Ost Today, 10:41 AM

No mention of Vyatich? My friend you do not know the story at all. Have you been to the Oryol Museum of Local Lore? And say it there. It certainly is good to say categorically no and never was. Reminds historian Suvorov.
About the Finno-Ugric peoples. Yes, such a group of tribes was and is, but Slavic tribes forced them to the north, and not vice versa. Otherwise, we would not speak Russian, but Hungarian, for example.
Further, this is how to understand your maxim like - Siveryans, Krivichi and other parts of some people there, it does not matter Russian or Ukrainian? I understand that such a tribe was part of the Slavs living in the territory of modern Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or Poland.
And in general, a beautiful substitution of the Slavic people, for Ukrainians or Russians. Moreover, find out which of them is older. By historical standards, that the Poles, that the Russians or the Belarusians are twin brothers, though someone has become more cool than everyone else.

But now there are no Vyatichi people.
Since 1197 there has been no mention of them at all.

Up to 17th century They write that their settlements still existed. You need to read carefully what was there.

They assimilated. Scattered. All. Dot.

They are “wired” into the population of Central Russia just as the Scythians and Sarmatians are “wired” into the Ukrainians.

But there are few Scythians and Sarmatians; they are not the dominant component of the Slavs.

So the Vyatichi are a rather modest component in the Finno-Ugric sea of ​​peoples.

Now about the “displacement” of the Finno-Ugrians to the north.
Anu more details.

Who drove whom and where.

But before describing the “process of repression,” tell us what preceded it.

Question for you. FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID THE SLAVS LEAVE Rus' and go to the northeast to live in Zalesye?

What was their motivation to do this? What reason?

When was this, in what time period?

What historical or archaeological evidence supports this migration?

Further. Replacement of Slavs with Ukrainians and Russians and Belarusians?

Don’t you distinguish between a people and the components from which it is composed?

There is such a thing as “ethnogenesis”.

A primitive example. You took a raw egg, vegetable oil, salt, black pepper, tomatoes, cheese - and fried the eggs.

In this case, can you really say that you “replaced” the concept of eggs and tomatoes with the concept of scrambled eggs?

You have a dish that is no longer just the sum of its original ingredients.

That's how it is with the people.

Tribes, united into people, are undergoing a process of irreversible TRANSFORMATION, and the people can no longer be blurred into SUB-ETHNOS.

Thus, the tribes of the Eastern Slavs, having merged into a single community, lost their old names of Polans, Siverians, Ulichs, etc. - and formed a single people of Rusyns - Rus'.

[Vasya]

Ost Today, 10:41 AM

No mention of Vyatich? My friend you do not know the story at all. Have you been to the Oryol Museum of Local Lore? And say it there. It certainly is good to say categorically no and never was. Reminds historian Suvorov.
About the Finno-Ugric peoples. Yes, such a group of tribes was and is, but Slavic tribes forced them to the north, and not vice versa. Otherwise, we would not speak Russian, but Hungarian, for example.
Further, this is how to understand your maxim like - Siveryans, Krivichi and other parts of some people there, it does not matter Russian or Ukrainian? I understand that such a tribe was part of the Slavs living in the territory of modern Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or Poland.
And in general, a beautiful substitution of the Slavic people, for Ukrainians or Russians. Moreover, find out which of them is older. By historical standards, that the Poles, that the Russians or the Belarusians are twin brothers, though someone has become more cool than everyone else.

Read more.

A people as an object has its own properties, such as awareness of unity, living on a stable single territory, a common language, culture, mental characteristics, a clear understanding of its difference from others, which is recorded in its self-name - ethnonym.

The Slavic tribes that merged into the Ukrainian people are the closest possible relatives, and one of the important characteristics of the people is self-recreation in ethnically homogeneous marriages.
Here is the transmission of language and traditions across generations.

Religion is here too.

The people also have a single social function; the people are a social organism.

Conciliarity is what organized the Rusyns when they were renamed Ukrainians, which recreated Rus Ukraine from parts that were under occupation in different countries.

So the Ukrainian people can no longer be divided into parts.

About the time of completion of ethnogenesis.

Ukrainians as a people were formed by the 9th century. They even created their own national state, Rus', which speaks not just about the people, but about the nation. Although, I know how many protests there are now.

Among the Russian people, the completion of ethnogenesis falls on the 12th century.

That is, the Russian and Ukrainian peoples are separated historically by 400 years.

So, Ukrainians are 4 centuries older than Russians.

There is no way that Russians can be the big brother of Ukrainians.

And Rus' cannot possibly be the first Russian state, because when Rus' already existed, there were no Russian people.

Can a state come before its people? No!

Another moment.

Ukrainians and Russians cannot possibly be one people, because their genetic ancestors are different.

Everyone has their own.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 15:21

The night of the empire has come.

[slan]

Do you know what your curse is? You are doomed to write on Russian forums, read Russian history books, work in Russia and ask for discounts on gas. I sincerely sympathize with you, you yourself are a nonentity and, like many in such cases, you have chosen the path of self-aggrandizement at the expense of the greatness of your ancestors. But your trouble is that your ancestors were always slaves: among the Russians, Poles, Russians, Golden Horde... They did not leave a single stone monument, not a single written source, they did not even create a state - for them this was done only in 20 century Yeltsin under the leadership of the United States. And there is no need to scream that the Ukrainians were not allowed to do this by the invaders; Russia had hundreds of times more people willing to enslave them. After all, you read about the Russians exclusively from Russian chronicles (preserved in Russia). So, according to these same chronicles, Russia is most likely a Varangian squad, which from Novgorod once moved to reign in Kyiv (not in Kyiv, mind you!)

[Mr.Alphonse]

It’s cruel)) but there’s no need to say that. They were just deceived...

[Mr.Alphonse]

Already leaving.

[Vasya]

bandura70 Today, 10:11 PM

The discussion has clearly gone sideways. Vasya must be given his due. He managed to force those present to defend their right to be called Russian, using completely scientific arguments. But behind this scientific form lies an obvious desire to prove the ethnic inferiority of Russians. In general, quite in the spirit of Goebbels propaganda. To do this, there was no need to strain your intellect, you just had to say that you are a Russian herd, cattle that have nothing to do with either the Slavs or Rus'. And everything would be clear to us. The essence of this Russophobic thinking is clearly presented in one popular joke: The project of a monument to the hero of the UPA is being discussed. First option: There is a hero, a machine gun in his left hand, a Muscovite in his right. Another option: a trident in the right hand, a Muscovite in the left. Then the most important one arrives and says: “That’s right, there’s a trident in the right, a Muscovite in the left. And the shroud is fresh every day.” The origin, evolution, current existence and prospects of this phobia are a topic for a separate conversation and in another field.
In this case, it would be interesting to return to the issue of the Russian idea. How would we like to see our state? What is our mission in this world? What should and can we do for this?

Where did you see the humiliation of Russians in my comments?

Are Finno-Ugric peoples animals?

The Slavs are not more worthy than the Finno-Ugrians, and vice versa.

All are equally worthy.

As for the "herd" - these are claims against the Golden Horde of the 13th Art. Why did they call you that?

Why are you making complaints against me? ))))

There is no Russophobia.

We are fighting the myths of imperial times, and the sooner Russia gets rid of them, the easier it will be to remove complex topics.

No one is now calling to rename Ukrainians back to Rusyns, Ukraine to Rus, and Russia to Muscovy.

But the formation of the imperial great power mythology of Russia came at the expense of Ukraine, at the expense of the Ukrainians.

Stop the tradition of asserting yourself about Ukraine, get rid of post-imperial complexes, and the topics of discussion will immediately disappear.

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

was at the expense of Ukraine, at the expense of the Ukrainians

You’re a beggar, what can be done at your expense, clown?))
Apart from a mud hut and a pigsty, you have never had anything of your own and never will.

[Mr.Alphonse]

But the formation of the imperial great power mythology of Russia came at the expense of Ukraine, at the expense of the Ukrainians.
This is how, at the expense of the Ukrainians, the formation of the empire took place at the expense of the country’s treasury, the treasury grew richer through taxes, and taxes were collected from everyone, and especially from the Russians. In addition, the formation took place gradually, you say that as if you are jealous that we can afford imperial ambitions and you cannot, from your comment I can say that your historical knowledge is scanty, and besides, I must note that you were parasites, lived at our expense, they also developed at our expense, we built you houses, factories, enterprises, roads, in general, your entire infrastructure was built at our expense. For your words, I will frankly call you a scoundrel and an ungrateful brute.

[bandura70]

The Russians never asserted themselves at the expense of the Ukrainians, and the imperial great-power mythology simply could not be formed at the expense of the Ukrainian one, since the latter did not exist until the 19th century. For the imperial historical consciousness there was no such nation as the Ukrainians; there were three branches of the united Russian people: Great Russians, Belarusians, Little Russians, successors to Kievan Rus.
As for mythologems, history in the form in which it is present in your comments is rather an ideology built on regular mythologems. That is, you fight imperial mythologies by creating your own.
Your argument is built on the antithesis: Ukrainians are true Rus-Slavs, Russians are not Ukrainians and therefore not Slavs, which for a Russian person is in itself offensive, while no one rejects the Finno-Ugric heritage in Russian culture, as well as the Tatar one, despite all the ambiguous attitudes towards it.

[Vasya]

dimitriy today, 14:46

Fedor Yesterday, 18:58
Hey Fedor, well done! What a job Vasilko did! He was completely confused, began to panic and shout about changing the topic, that we were talking about Russia. Apparently Vasya has a manual on what to say about Russia, but nothing to say about Ukraine. Vasya cannot protect Ukraine, he can only vulgarize Rus'.

Rus' is my Fatherland, how can I vulgarize my native Ukraine?

[Vasya]

consul Today, 10:47

Dear Consul.

There are a couple of points that you are not aware of.

Ukraine and Ukrainian lands. I understand what you are talking about.

In Russian, this word comes from the words “at the edge”. That is, in other words, in Russian “Ukraine” means the outskirts.

But in the Ukrainian language there are no such words “at the edge”. Ukrainians say "skray" or "okray".

In the Ukrainian language, the word “Ukraine” has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT meaning.

Namely, “the land is Ukrainian,” that is, its own, separated for use, for one’s residence.

The “Ukrainian land” may have its own outskirts, that is, “Ukraine” in Russian.

This is a simple coincidence of words from different languages.

When in the middle of the 17th century. Ukraine and Muscovy began to interact more militarily, but in order not to confuse Russian Ukraine and Ukrainian Ukraine, Moscow retracted its word.

Farther.
The confusion happened earlier.

Farther.
Ukrainians are mostly dark Slavs. Not as dark as Bulgarians or Macedonians, but still dark.

Ukrainians are anthropologically related to Central-South Europeans.

But there are also northern Ukrainians, light ones.

And the Northern Slavs and Belarusians are also fair.

And the Russian Finno-Ugrians are very blond. And there are also dark ones.

So color is not an indicator.

The Turks have nothing to do with it.

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

In the Ukrainian language, the word “Ukraine” has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT meaning.
Namely, “the land is Ukrainian,” that is, its own, separated for use, for one’s residence.

Exactly f*cked)) In what language, what is the meaning? What kind of Ukrainian?)))
And what is the meaning of vitets in witchizne in this very “language”?)))
Loser, don’t worry so much, but you have a very powerful ensign. And the coat of arms is like this... Are you embroidering bloomers or something like that?

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

The Turks have nothing to do with it.

How does this have nothing to do with it?! Where did the great peoples go - Polovtsians, Nagais, Pechenegs...? Did you go to Mars? And the proud Ukrainians landed from Venus in the steppes?!
By the way, Bulgarians have very little Slavic blood, they just speak the Slavic language. And they don’t have a complex about this; all around them there are monuments to the Khan, the founder of Bulgaria. By the way, he rode there straight from Great Bulgaria - present-day Ukraine, but his many brothers remained there. Are you a loser? read) "Dark Slavs"))) you are a dark-haired steppe dweller, and above all this can be seen from your intellect and inferiority complex. And the color of the hair is, of course, not the main thing; among the Polovtsians it was most likely straw-colored. Try to understand the difference between a nation, people and race - an anthropological type. But really, read about the Bulgarians at least on Wikipedia))

[Mr.Alphonse]

By the way, you Ukrainians are forgetful. Who gave you Crimea? Donbass? Purely Russian territories. Who gave you Izmail - Moldovan territory, who gave you Chernivtsi, Bukovina - Romanian territories? FORGOT?

[consul]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5 -русинами называли и русских.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B -об "украинцах"

The history of the Novgorod land for centuries has been inextricably linked with all the most important stages in the life of the Russian state.
In the XNUMXth century, a few tribes of the Krivichi Slavs came to the Novgorod land (one of those from whom the Russians were formed); in foreign sources, mentions of it date back to an even earlier time (the Gothic historian Jordan of the XNUMXth century Novietun is a Celtic tracing of the ancient Russian Novgorod) before that At that time, the population of the Novgorod land were Finno-Ugric tribes, and in the XNUMXth century, in the process of settling the East European Plain, the Slovenian tribe came here.
By the middle of the 859th century, at the source of the Volkhov, a center of political communication of tribes living on numerous rivers flowing into Lake Ilmen had formed. The chronicle says that Novgorod existed already in XNUMX.

Stone construction in Rus' began at the end of the 10th century. At the end of the 11th - 12th centuries we encounter a fully developed type of temple, which became widespread. Only four buildings have been completely preserved to this day - the Transfiguration Cathedral in Chernigov, the St. Sophia Cathedrals in Kyiv and Novgorod, the Trinity Gate Church in the Kiev Pechersk Monastery.-I.e. culturally we go at least in parallel.

And who told you that you are our younger brothers? The term Little Rus' was interpreted in terms of the size of the territory and as the place (original) where the Russian state came from. There was, well, no such name as the Ukrainian people until the 19th century (and no Ukrainian people like consequence, it was not formed by the 9th century), and if so, then the Russians (as those formed in the 12th century) are 7 centuries older than the Ukrainians. We, Russians, claim that our state politically came from Kievan Rus and turned into the Russian Empire (in vain you you assign this only to those tribes that lived there, because not only “Ukrainians” fought in the squad of the Kiev prince, but also Novgorodians, Tiverians and others. After all, Kievan Rus was then larger than today’s Ukraine. Then it became Muscovite Rus, how would you like this and didn’t like it). And Rus, Rusyns, Rusichs were called all the Slavs living on the territory of Russia until the 17th century (as their habitat).

[slan]

It is in vain that you engage in discussions with these creatures. It is only possible to put them in their place by mercilessly humiliating them. Trying to quote and prove something is useless, as in the case of sheep.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 15:54

They did not leave a single stone structure, not a single written source, they did not even create a state - this was done for them only in the 20th century by Yeltsin under the leadership of the United States.

Oh, what an evil uncle! ))))

You say you haven’t created anything?

Ostroh Academy in Ukraine was opened in 1576. This is not only a higher education institution, but also a scientific institution.

The Kiev-Mohyla Collegium in Ukraine was founded in 1632.

These were the largest scientific and educational institutions of higher education in Eastern Europe.

Only Lviv University, opened by Poland, could compete with them.

At this time, in Muscovy (count in Russia), the first university - the Slavic-Greek-Latin Academy - was opened only in 1687, and then on the basis of a printing house. Very few students studied there, a handful, and the teachers drank and beat students more than they taught.

Lomonosov studied at the Kiev-Mohyla Academy.

So, we consider.

According to the Ostroh Academy.

Remaining of Muscovy from Ukraine is 1687 - 1576 = 111 years.

According to the Kiev-Mohyla Collegium.

The lag between Muscovy and Ukraine is 1687 - 1632 = 55 years.

This is a catastrophe. Educational gap between Ukraine and Muscovy.

And if we take the serious St. Petersburg University and the Academy of Sciences (1724, 1725), then this is already a century and a half behind.

In the 17th Art. The population of Ukraine is 100% literate.

And in Muscovy up to the 18th century. no literature. At all.

No one in Muscovy studies, Asian family traditions are like those of the bais in Central Asia, everyone hunts and drinks a lot.

In general, Ukrainian education aroused rage and hatred among Muscovites.

Moscow priests burned Ukrainian books.

Moscow priests burned both the books and equipment of pioneer printer Ivan Fedorov. And more correctly, Ivan Fedorovich is of Belarusian-Ukrainian origin.

Don't like to talk about it?

Don't you really like it, uncle?

[slan]

Oddball, in what Ukraine?)) Lomonosov studied with the Ukrainians in Ukrainian?)) Wow, you also write about the Antonov Design Bureau and the Kharkov Tank, and the Romanian fortresses in western Ukraine))
So it was the Moscow priests who burned all the books in the Ukrainian language?)) You still draw the line between the occupiers and the proud Ukrainians who keep traditions in their villages. All you can do is slaughter Polish children and then be proud of the achievements of their occupation. The same with the Russians. They painted the pipe in the colors of a yellow chicken's diarrhea and scream about national treasure - that's all the achievements of independence - they didn't sell the pipe to Gazprom))

[Vasya]

slan Today, 16:42

Exactly f*cked)) In what language, what is the meaning? What kind of Ukrainian?)))
And what is the meaning of vitets in witchizne in this very “language”?)))
Loser, don’t worry so much, but you have a very powerful ensign. And the coat of arms is like this... Are you embroidering bloomers or something like that?

Ukrainian - in the Russian language there is the word “edge” (native forever beloved, where can you find another one like this).

The native land is not a border area.

If the region is a border, then this is no longer Russia, but some kind of Australia. ))))

Vitchizna is a Russian copy imposed on Ukrainians by the Soviets.

The real and native word in the Ukrainian language is Batkivshchyna.

How easy it is to be with you, uncle. I'm freaking out.
I thought there would be real resistance.

[slan]

Isn’t the Ukrainian the first Ukrainian to fall from Ararat Venus? How else should we understand “Ukrainian land”?))) So now this is already a “land”? Just like in Russian?)) But what about the “u”, what should we do then? Ukroklon has never been so close to failure. Is “witchizna” a tracing-paper from Russian? So maybe everything else that you extolled like a language from Venus is a Turkic tracing paper - a distortion of Slavic words? Yes, this is definitely true, I’m convinced.))
Console yourself, hereditary peasant in trousers, your ancestors definitely did not graduate from Kyiv and Kharkov universities. Yes, of course they would not learn from the occupiers.
Of course, everything is simple for you, you are a narrow-minded troll)) Go to your own place, he’s tired of it, worse than a garbage fly)

[Mr.Alphonse]

I thought there would be real resistance. - Yes, you are incomparable in stupidity.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 17:44

Oddball, which Ukraine?))

In fact, the name of Ukraine, instead of the declining “Rus”, began to be promoted as official by the Central Ukrainian Cossacks of the Dnieper region in the middle of the 17th century.

Boplan had art. 50 on his maps back in the early 17s. "Ukraina" and "Pars Ukrainae" are already written, in parallel with the traditional "Rus".

Because Rus' Ukraine was open to relations with Europe.

In contrast to the isolated Muscovy, which became so by the will of Byzantium and according to the Horde traditions, Muscovy is anti-Western and anti-Latin.

Slavic languages, Church Slavonic, and Latin were studied at the Kiev-Mohyla Academy.

We learned a lot there.

What books were burned?

Books by Ukrainian authors are the flower of literature of that time. Slavinetsky, Galatovsky, Polotsky, Mogila, Starovetsky, Baranovich, Radivilovsky and others.

[slan]

Well, which one of them is Ukrainian? Google it))
So what language were these books in?

[slan]

And most importantly, because of such idiots you begin to slander all Ukrainians.
Remember, Ukrainian, Ukraine is a certain vast territory on which, over the tens of thousands of years of existence of the modern human species, many hundreds, if not thousands of peoples, different in blood, religion, language, lived, worked, and created states.. Rarely does anyone marry their own sisters , because all the peoples have long been mixed to such an extent that the Tatars are often fair-haired and blue-eyed, and some Russians have narrow eyes. But on the territory of present-day Ukraine and the Russian Federation for hundreds of years, and from the last, and not only the last but also a thousand years ago, there was a cultural community with a single faith, language, etc. Russian for the last hundreds of years, no matter how disgusting it may be to you, you write and read in it. Millions of people from the territory of present-day Ukraine now live on the territory of the Russian Federation, participating in the creation of what we call Russian culture. Gogol alone would be enough...
I apologize to normal Ukrainians. And you, little bastard, perish, the answer is that you don’t respect yourself.

[Vasya]

mr.Alphonse Today, 18:06

There is no need to be angry or offended.
We must admit the truth, learn even inconvenient facts.

There is no need to be hostile to someone’s point of view if it does not coincide with yours.

Only through mutual understanding and joint exploration of controversial moments in history will it be possible to build normal, good-neighborly relations.

And the problem is that what I said here is known to the vast majority of Ukrainians.

And especially young people.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 18:17

But on the territory of present-day Ukraine and the Russian Federation for hundreds of years, and from the last, and not only the last but also a thousand years ago, there was a cultural community with a single faith, language, etc. Russian for the last hundreds of years, no matter how disgusting it may be to you, you write and read in it.

A very ill-conceived statement.

How can Slavic Ukrainian culture and Finno-Ugric-Tatar culture be combined?

Read Prince Trubetskoy, he explains everything about this. ))))

Even the “Russian birch” turns out to be a Finnish birch, a Finnish cult tree.

And the Slavs have always traditionally had oak as their cult tree.

For the Slavic Ukrainians, the thousand-year-old tradition is agriculture, and for the Russian Finno-Ugrians, the tradition is hunting and gathering.

What are the common traditions?

Ukrainians and Belarusians are an Indo-European family of peoples, and Russians are a Finno-Ugric family of peoples.

Different families, different traditions. Each has its own.

Maybe you're talking about the Soviet period? When did the Soviets unsuccessfully try to create a single, non-viable community of Soviets - the “Soviet people”?

I write in Russian so that you understand.
You won't understand Ukrainian.

Everything is much simpler than you think.

[slan]

I can not resist)))
Why do you, loser, think that if Finno-Ugric blood flows in me, I should have a complex about this?)) Yes, even Negro blood. You won’t believe it, it’s hard for you to understand, and given the level of intelligence that you showed here, it’s impossible, but not all people have complexes like yours. For me, normal people will judge me by my deeds and achievements, but abnormal people... sorry, Vasya, you can’t please everyone))
p.s. You definitely have an iconic tree - oak. You probably see it in the mirror, well, not in the steppes, you have to think)) Or do you consider only woodland to be Ukraine? I'll know..

[consul]

I am aware of how Westerners distort the meaning of the ancient Slavic word Ukraine, making it synonymous with the word “edge”, the words “about the edge”, “from the edge” are also found among Russians, especially in villages (I say this as a villager). "Ukrainian" may have its own outskirts - there is no confirmation of this statement of yours anywhere.
About mixing. The fact is that now everyone does what and how they want, at that time morals were stricter and without parental blessing I would not have been able to get married. Therefore, I claim that there was no strong mixing, most likely there was none at all.
About the darkness of hair. On the territory of present-day Ukraine there was the Khazar Kaganate, the Golden Horde (as a state, since there were both the Blue and White Hordes), clouds of all kinds of nomads ran through (and there was no place to hide in the steppes), Turkish raids and humiliation from the nobility ( otherwise Bogdan Khmelnitsky, together with the people, would not have asked for the hand of Moscow) and you want to say this did not affect his appearance? In all Arab chronicles, the Rus are shown as fair-haired and light-eyed.
The Moscow priesthood burned pro-Catholic books, because educational institutions in Little Rus' were founded by Catholics for the Catholicization of the local population. Therefore, these books were unacceptable in Moscow Rus'. Ivan Fedorov’s books were not burned, and he himself, through the machinations of his enemies, was forced to leave for Lithuania. He himself This is how he spoke about Ivan the Terrible’s attitude towards the book printer - In the afterword to the Moscow “Apostle”, Fedorov stated that the monarch showed exceptional generosity, “mercilessly giving from his royal treasures to the printers (printers) and to their peace, even before he left to complete their work.” The printing house was transferred from Moscow to the royal residence - Aleksandrovskaya Sloboda, where Fedorov's successor Andronik Timofeev prepared the second edition of the Psalter. This publication revealed features of a return to the style and traditions of Ivan Fedorov. And please, don’t write down everyone you like as “Ukrainians,” as the Germans of Hitler’s time did, recording all talented people as Germans.

[Vasya]

bandura70 Today, 10:11 PM

We, Ukrainians, created you, Russia.

And they realized that they had made a huge mistake.

Like Dr. Victor Frankenstein.

The imperial doctrine of Russia was written in Kyiv in the 17th century. and not for Russia, but by Ukrainian intellectuals, idiotic dreamers who did not calculate all the consequences.

And now we, Ukraine, bear punishment, punishment for the creation of this world monster - Russia.

[slan]

So you are the Lord God)))
Yes, the diagnosis is obvious, I thought I was a troll, but it turned out that I was trolling a crazy person. It’s a sin, of course, but it’s so hard to tear yourself away..

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

Like Dr. Victor Frankenstein

Ukrainian too?!

[bandura70]

I'm curious what kind of punishment you're facing now. What exactly does it consist of? Aren't you more independent than ever before in your history? Don't you own vast territories richly watered with Russian blood? Isn’t it you who manage the enormous industrial potential created, if not by Russia, then at least with its direct and active participation?

[Vasya]

bandura70 Today, 10:11 PM

By the way, your Russian language is also the result of our actions, Ukrainians.

It was you who taught you to speak Russian.

You would still be speaking Karelian dialects if it weren’t for us.

[slan]

So we seem to have figured out that without the occupiers you wouldn’t even have built the Mogila Academy, but here again... So in what language did “you” teach us Russian if there wasn’t a single Ukrainian book before the Muscovite occupation? Ahh, telepathically straight from Venus, there are emitters... Well, of course, that’s what happened. thank you “you” for my Russian, otherwise in Ukrainian I really wouldn’t understand “your” wise speeches)

[Vasya]

slan Today, 18:53

A person has freedom to take certain actions.

This affects what happens next.

The Golden Horde and Byzantium created Muscovy.

And Ukraine grew Rus' in the 17th century. from Muscovy to Russia.

[slan]

Oh how! What a turn. You have almost convinced me that three hundred years ago hordes of Finno-Ugrians occupied Ukraine-Rus, and this is how it is. What a turn of consciousness! For three hundred years, proud Ukrainians “grew” Russia through persistent selection. Brother Georgians, I’m afraid, will not forgive you for this.
Give me the address and I'll call you for reinforcements. Don’t refuse, it’s probably not too late to help you, Ukrainian medicine sometimes works miracles.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 18:57

What kind of occupiers built the Kiev-Mohyla Academy for us?

I didn't understand what nonsense this was.

Are you reading a book and see nothing?

[slan]

What book should I read? Give me a link, I’m ready to learn the Great Ukrainian language in order to get to the true source of sacred knowledge. So at the academy they taught not in Polish and Russian, but in Ukrainian? Oh yes, the Poles were not occupiers. This all happened on the territory of the great and independent, but “open Europe” of Ukraine)))

[consul]

How can Slavic Ukrainian culture and Finno-Ugric-Tatar culture be combined?
For the Slavic Ukrainians, the thousand-year-old tradition is agriculture, and for the Russian Finno-Ugrians, the tradition is hunting and gathering.
Ukrainians and Belarusians are an Indo-European family of peoples, and Russians are a Finno-Ugric family of peoples.
These statements of yours show your very superficial level of knowledge, as if you live in some kind of your own world - it’s funny to read. It would be funny if not for your words - And the problem is that what I said here is known to the vast majority of Ukrainians.

And especially young people.
-This is really a problem (how much crap has been stuffed into our heads). I live in Tatarstan and I can responsibly declare that the culture, language, traditions, and mentality of the Russians, Mordvins (Finno-Ugric), Chuvash and Tatars (Turkic-speaking) are completely different. For it’s enough to just live among them, and not read books. I repeat, there have NEVER BEEN “Slavic Ukrainians.”

[consul]

According to most anthropological characteristics, Russians occupy a central position among the peoples of Europe[54].

Russian populations are quite homogeneous in anthropological terms[55]. Average anthropological indicators either coincide with average Western European values ​​or deviate from them, remaining, however, within the fluctuations of Western groups[55].

The following features can be noted that distinguish Russians from Western European populations[55]:

Lighter pigmentation. The proportion of light and medium shades of hair and eyes is increased, the proportion of dark shades is reduced;
Reduced growth of eyebrows and beard;
Moderate face width;
The prevalence of medium horizontal profile and medium-high nose;
A smaller slope of the forehead and a weaker development of the eyebrow.

The Russian population is characterized by the extremely rare occurrence of epicanthus. Out of more than 8,5 thousand Russian males examined, epicanthus was found only 12 times, and only in its infancy. The same extremely rare occurrence of epicanthus is observed in the population of Germany[56].

Based on the results of studies of Y-chromosomal markers, two groups of Russian populations are distinguished[57]. In the northern group (Mezen, Pinega, Krasnoborsk) closeness (only closeness!) was revealed with neighboring Finno-Ugric and Baltic populations, which may (or may not) be explained by a common substrate. The south-central group, which includes the vast majority of Russian populations, is included in a common cluster with Belarusians, Ukrainians and Poles[57][58]. According to the results of a study of mtDNA markers, as well as autosomal markers, Russians are similar to other populations of Central and Eastern Europe[58]. High unity in autosomal markers of East Slavic populations and their significant differences from neighboring Finno-Ugric, Turkic and North Caucasian peoples have been revealed [59] [60].

In Russian populations, there is an extremely low frequency of genetic traits characteristic of Mongoloid populations. The frequencies of East Eurasian markers among Russians correspond to the European average[61].

[slan]

Quote: slan

The Golden Horde and Byzantium created Muscovy.

Quote: Vasya

In contrast to the isolated Muscovy, which became so by the will of Byzantium and according to the Horde traditions, Muscovy is anti-Western and anti-Latin.

So Rus' and Orthodoxy are antipodes? Then the Polish Orthodox academies are planting an adversary, it turns out. Is Prince Vladimir (Volodimyr))) still an agent of Byzantium-Muscovy? I understand that these are not simple questions for your schizophrenia, but it may help. Or was there some kind of special non-Byzantine branch of Orthodoxy in Ukraine-Rus before the Moscow occupation?

[consul]

Anthropology of Ukrainians

Ukrainians are part of the “Danube” (Norik) group of populations. This also includes Belarusians, Poles, many Russians (among these peoples the Valdai variant of the Danube type, characterized by slightly greater light pigmentation, predominates), Slovenes, some populations of Croats, as well as Germans, Austrians and Lithuanians[58].

Ukrainians are usually brachycephalic, most of them are tall, with a predominance of dark hair color, but light-eyed people in almost all anthropological types characteristic of Ukrainians (except Dinaric) predominate over dark-eyed ones.

According to a number of characteristics (facial profile, transverse profile of the bridge of the nose, protrusion of the wings of the nose, position of the nostrils, development of the fold of the upper eyelid), some groups of the population of Ukraine (Middle Dnieper, Left Bank), undoubtedly Caucasoid, have a small percentage of admixture associated with the assimilation of steppe Turkic groups with a certain Mongoloid element.[59].

Of the anthropological types, the most common are the Gorids, Pontids and Baltids. The Dinaric type is less common (mainly in the southern and western regions).
So, Vasily, don’t sing songs here that no one hears (and no one wants to hear).

[slan]

These conclusions are very general as the average temperature in the hospital and are very tolerant. It is not difficult to find less flattering conclusions about the population genetics of the Ukrainian population. But it is enough to look with the naked eye to understand that no Ukrainian people exist, just as Ukraine never existed until it was sucked out of thin air. Again, it is characteristic that in the southeast of Ukraine there is simply no analogue of the Russian concept of “churki”, because the swarthyness of the local population can cause an attack of xenophobia even in the Caucasus. It's even worse in the southwest.

[Vasya]

consul Today, 18:43 0

Russian outskirts of the Ukrainian concept are only possible.
I didn't say it was in the documents.
In Ukraine, the Russian “Ukraine” could never be used in speech, because the name “Ukraine” meant something else.

The traditions of the Slavs are not the same as the traditions of the Finno-Ugrians of Zalesye.
So there is no need to look for analogies here. It's about mixing.

Regarding appearance, I trust official anthropology. In Soviet times, there were plenty of expeditions.
Comparison with standard Slavic burials provides information about the rather high purity of the Ukrainian Slavs and their homogeneity.

There are some impurities, but they are minor.

Regarding the burning of books, yes, Moscow accused Ukraine of having ties with the Catholic world.

But Ukraine has never been isolated from Europe, unlike Moscow.

These authors were supporters of Orthodoxy, and always debated with Catholics. And in the fraternal schools of Ukraine they taught logic and rhetoric in order to be able to resist students and graduates of Jesuit schools.

Moscow had a dislike for everything non-Moscow, strong xenophobia.

Until now, by the way.

Moscow priests not only rebaptized Catholic Poles, but also Orthodox Ukrainians.

Regarding the first printer Fedorovich, it was only later that it all happened, but first they burned it, as I said.

[Vasya]

consul Today, 19:27
Anthropology of Ukrainians

These are selected moments. ))))

There's a lot of information there.

This cannot be described in a nutshell. ))))

[slan]

Ridiculous?
Yes, laughing at your own complexes should be one of the first methods of psychological correction. Have you come to this yourself, or is the doctor already aware?

[Vasya]

slan Today, 19:35

no Ukrainian people exist, just as Ukraine never existed until it was sucked out of thin air. Again, it is characteristic that in the southeast of Ukraine there is simply no analogue of the Russian concept of “churki”, because the swarthyness of the local population can cause an attack of xenophobia even in the Caucasus. It's even worse in the southwest.

Russian Ukrainophobes and Black Hundreds said the same thing before the revolution.
This is not a new thesis.

The Russian government was in a panic from the growing national liberation movement in Ukraine, and in every possible way denied Ukrainianness as a phenomenon, and Ukrainians as a people.

Even in chauvinistic magazines they put epigraphs: “This region is Russian, Russian, Russian!” ))))

But recently, before that, the tsarist government really recognized the Ukrainians and the concept of Ukraine, even supported them in their national affirmation - in order to annoy the Poles. ))))

What double standards!

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

What double standards!

Outrageous!

Quote: Vasya

The Russian authorities were in panic from the growing national liberation movement in Ukraine

BUT?!
What did the movement lead to, the Belovezhskaya agreements? Did they fight for Yeltsin at the distilleries?
I haven’t heard anything about the Ukrainian national liberation movement before, except perhaps about Bandera’s followers, but is it really Ukraine?

[Vasya]

consul Today, 19:27 0
Anthropology of Ukrainians

Source please. And then only the numbers of links flash.

Job title.

We will read and analyze. ))))

[slan]

In no case! You need to go to the sea, to the mountains... just don’t overexert your brain and hide sharp objects away, preferably with your neighbors.

[slan]

Vasya, give me links to Ukrainian (in the Great Ukrainian language) books and chronicles. Did they really burn everything? To the Finno-Ugrians!!! I am outraged along with you. So where to call for help?

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

Moscow priests not only rebaptized Catholic Poles, but also Orthodox Ukrainians.

What did they baptize them into, what are you talking about, maybe Mohammedanism or shamanism, what do the Finno-Ugrians have?

[consul]

Russian outskirts of the Ukrainian concept are only possible.
I didn't say it was in the documents.
In Ukraine, the Russian “Ukraine” could never be used in speech, because the name “Ukraine” meant something else.
- not only possible, but also identical;
The traditions of the Slavs are not the same as the traditions of the Finno-Ugrians of Zalesye.
So there is no need to look for analogies here. It's about mixing.
-You have some kind of complex about the attitude of the Finno-Ugric tribes (good people, by the way) towards us Russians));
Regarding appearance, I trust official anthropology. In Soviet times, there were plenty of expeditions.
Comparison with standard Slavic burials provides information about the rather high purity of the Ukrainian Slavs and their homogeneity.
- I took the data from Wikipedia, there are links and the latest data;

Until now, by the way.

Moscow priests not only rebaptized Catholic Poles, but also Orthodox Ukrainians.
-if these are not schismatics or Uniates, then this did not happen;

But Ukraine has never been isolated from Europe, unlike Moscow.
Yeah, that's why-
As A.V. Chernov wrote, the archers were all armed with firearms, which put them above the infantry of Western states, where some of the infantrymen (pikemen) had only edged weapons[31]. From the author’s point of view, all this indicates that in the formation of infantry Muscovy, in the person of Tsar Ivan the Terrible, was far ahead of Europe. At the same time, it is known that already at the beginning of the 32th century in Russia they began to form the so-called “Foreign Order” regiments based on the model of the Swedish and Dutch infantry, which impressed Russian military leaders with their effectiveness. The regiments of the “Foreign System” also had at their disposal pikemen (spearmen), who covered the musketeers from the cavalry, as A.V. Chernov himself mentions[XNUMX].
They just took from the West what they needed, and not everything in a row.

[slan]

Quote: consul

- I took the data from Wikipedia, there are links and the latest data;

Wikipedia)) Not from Russian, I hope?

[consul]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B -украинцы;

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5 -русские.

[mitrich]

MEN,
Are you not tired of this hohlosrach yet???

[slan]

I'm tired of it))) But I already wrote that it's a shame, but it's impossible to tear yourself away. It’s like you understand that it’s a sin to laugh at a sick person... In general, I traditionally avoid such conversations, but today I couldn’t stand it - for two days this psycho took up the entire forum, I naively thought that I could shut him up))
p.s. Still, moderators should do this)

[Vasya]

slan Today, 19:49

I'll tell you a secret, it was a sweet couple who burned it.

Tatar Karamzin and German Sophia, Catherine the Second who.

The Tatar and the German woman are to blame for everything! ))))

[slan]

The long awaited answer. I have no more questions.

[mitrich]

SLAN
psychos are treated with the opportunity to speak out. Sometimes you also need to shake your head in agreement, this reduces aggression. I am already confused in your dispute - Vyatichi, Krivichi, Pederasich (these, of course, lived in Volyn). All the same, a dead end is close.

[slan]

Quote: mitrich

I am already confused in your dispute - Vyatichi, Krivichi, Pederasich (these, of course, lived in Volyn)

+ 1))
Yes, I myself don’t understand anything about this, but as it turned out, I helped the person speak out) Well, at least I spent my time usefully)

[bandura70]

It seems that the topic of the Russian national idea no longer excites. Vasya’s Russophobia overexcited him.

[slan]

Quiet! He's a Russophile, you'll hurt me again..))
Or did you also want to know in detail that Russia is Ukraine or Ukraine is Rus'..?
p.s. He's just a Finnophobe, and we're Ugrians((

[consul]

mitrich, to be honest, I’m tired of it, and we’ve gone very far from the topic, for which I apologize, it was just interesting to talk with a person from a similar point of view (this is my first experience :))).
On the topic, I am categorically against paganism, in any of its manifestations, and I believe that Russianness was most manifested in our people after the adoption of Christianity, which destroyed polygamy, blood sacrifices, the concept of revenge (made the people more merciful) and enlightened them with the Truth. Christianity is not philosophical knowledge or concepts, but real spiritual experience, they need to live. That’s what our people did. You need to know the history of pre-Christian Rus', but there is practically no data about it, and what the neo-pagans offer is not that.

[slan]

That's it, on topic now. I am also against paganism and calling February a lute or a scoundrel because it is stupid and vulgar. And for that matter, before the revolution there was a definition of Russian, essentially, as an Orthodox white race with Russian as a native language. Moreover, there is not so much ancient Russian written evidence and all these supposedly Slavic traditions that the Internet is full of are actually made up by crooks and simply sick people. Fortunately, Russians have something to be proud of without inventing a delusional pseudo-history.

[bandura70]

In fact, it is difficult to imagine a modern society whose ideology is based on pagan ideas. However, Orthodoxy and ethnic identification alone will not suffice; a broader set of ideas is required. Incl. about the past, present and future of the state, and in the global context. This is where the problems begin in the latter case. Today there appear to be three competing ideological complexes:
imperial, pre-revolutionary;
communist;
the current one is liberal.
And not one of them is able to consolidate the overwhelming majority of society and, what is most problematic, does not guarantee the self-preservation of the Russian people as state-formers.

[slan]

The overwhelming part of society, or rather its healthy part, can rally around a national ideology, which implies the achievement of certain real, tangible and uniquely useful goals for every healthy member of society. These are certainly the material wealth, spiritual and physical health of the nation. I don’t know the order of priorities, but there seems to be nothing to add or subtract here)) Thus, the goals are obvious, the question is the means. There’s no point in reinventing the wheel here either, IMHO. The nation will rally around an ideology that ensures order and at least some imitation of justice. But fascism, communism, Orthodoxy or imperialism are secondary. This is the first thing that came to mind if you were interested in an opinion about the national idea.
p.s. Russia needs a leader with brains and balls, that’s all.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 20: 26 0

p.s. He's just a Finnophobe, and we're Ugrians((

Here! The second part of the thought is very correct!

Are you Uralic? Dark or light?

[Vasya]

consul Today, 19:54

Russian outskirts of the Ukrainian concept are only possible.
I didn't say it was in the documents.
In Ukraine, the Russian “Ukraine” could never be used in speech, because the name “Ukraine” meant something else.
- not only possible, but also identical;

No. Different concepts.
This is explained here.
Shelukhin S. Name of Ukraine. - Viden, 1921.

The traditions of the Slavs are not the same as the traditions of the Finno-Ugrians of Zalesye.
So there is no need to look for analogies here. It's about mixing.
-You have some kind of complex about the attitude of the Finno-Ugric tribes (good people, by the way) towards us Russians));

So why should they treat you Russians badly?
You are the Finno-Ugrians. You are them.
This is felt at the genetic level.

But if a Dagestani, for example, or an Ingush or a Georgian comes, oh, the attitude here is completely different.

Moscow priests not only rebaptized Catholic Poles, but also Orthodox Ukrainians.
-if these are not schismatics or Uniates, then this did not happen;

This can be read in the work "Lithos" from 1644.
AUZR.—K., 1914.—Part I.—T. 8.

But Ukraine has never been isolated from Europe, unlike Moscow.
Yeah, that's why-
As A.V. Chernov wrote, the archers were all armed with firearms, which put them above the infantry of Western states, where some of the infantrymen (pikemen) had only edged weapons[31]. From the author’s point of view, all this indicates that in the formation of infantry Muscovy, in the person of Tsar Ivan the Terrible, was far ahead of Europe.

Only Ivan the Terrible lost the war in the Western direction, despite the help of the Crimean Tatars.
Lost the war to the Polish king S. Batory.

At the same time, it is known that already at the beginning of the 32th century in Russia they began to form the so-called “Foreign Order” regiments based on the model of the Swedish and Dutch infantry, which impressed Russian military leaders with their effectiveness. The regiments of the “Foreign System” also had at their disposal pikemen (spearmen), who covered the musketeers from the cavalry, as A.V. Chernov himself mentions[XNUMX].
They just took from the West what they needed, and not everything in a row.

At the same time remaining in ideological isolation.
You can read this.
Sakharov A. M. The Church and the formation of the Russian centralized state // Questions of history. - 1966. - No. 1.

[His]

Aren't you tired?

[Vasya]

mitrich Today, 20: 17

psychos are treated with the opportunity to speak out. Sometimes you also need to shake your head in agreement, this reduces aggression.

I communicate with you normally, adequately.

If you are looking for the origins of “Russianness,” answer one simple question related specifically to Russia.

Why does the word “Russians” have no noun form, no substantive?

Only the adjective is present.

But in the Russian language itself, all other peoples and nationalities are called substantive.

Czech, Pole, Ukrainian, Rusyn, French, Italian, Belarusian, Chinese, even Papuan - everywhere a noun.

None of them
doesn't say French: I'm French, or
the Chinese does not say: I am Chinese,
Ukrainian does not say: I am Ukrainian,
The Belarusian does not say: I am Belarusian.

And you say: I am Russian.

Explanation of what's going on here?

[slan]

I am english - I am English, literally - I am English.
Get lost already, you laughingstock))

[Konstantm]

Like Vysotsky: “Well, crazy. What can you get from Vasya.”

[Vasya]

Russia has no history of its own.

By clinging to the history of Rus-Ukraine, by stealing from Rus-Ukraine its name - Russia (the Greek version, which until 1721 concerned only Ukraine), by creating a state ideologeme, or rather a mythologem, Russia doomed itself to disaster.

Now, when Russia is left without Ukraine, and Ukraine is consistently revealing the truth, eliminating the myths of the so-called “common history,” Russia is left without anything.

No matter how much Russia wants to, it cannot do anything about the fact that Rus' exists where Kyiv is, where the Dnieper is, where Chernigov and Pereyaslav are.

But not in the Moscow region and not on the Volga.

So, Russia is not able to uphold the ideology of an ethnic nation-state, because Russians cannot really be ethnically defined and recorded.

The imperial period of Russia is ending.

Since the 80s, the Moscow Empire has collapsed.

First, Eastern Europe fell away, then the Baltic states, then the USSR collapsed.

Now the Russian Federation is a remnant of the former Moscow Empire.

Although it is large in size, it is empty, so the size does not matter.

In the modern Russian Federation there are many lines of tension.

Caucasus, Tatarstan, Bashkiria, Mordovia, Siberia, Far East, Kaliningrad.

The vicious system of Moscow centralization saturates Moscow with huge amounts of money at the expense of the impoverishment of the regions of the Russian Federation.

Under Moscow centralization, the development of the regions of the Russian Federation is fundamentally impossible.

So, the communist thesis about the regularity of the historical collapse of any empire is confirmed.

Russia just can’t find its state. ideology.

Therefore, against this background, with increasing interethnic tension in the Russian Federation (and Moscow does not want to abandon the vicious imperial model), such a phenomenon as Russian fascism is developing - a forceful solution to interethnic conflicts.

Moscow understands the horror and depravity of this phenomenon, but behaves inconsistently. Either he flirts with Russian fascists, or he represses them. Suffice it to recall the events in Irkutsk last year.

At the same time, Moscow is unable to modernize and improve the system of public administration in the Russian Federation.

Issues such as education, medical care for the population, and decent social security are not being resolved.

Everything will end as in the USSR, with the degradation of the public administration system and the collapse of the Russian Federation.

Actually, nothing will happen to Russia. It’s just that Moscow will lose everything, and the regions of the Russian Federation will receive EVERYTHING.

[Vasya]

slan Today, 23:10

I am english - I am English, literally - I am English.
Get lost already, you laughingstock))

You are a laughing stock here because you bring up the rules of the English language.

That's why it speaks English, to write as is customary there.

And I'm talking about the Russian language.

And in the Russian language there is a rule to call all peoples and nationalities a substantive, a noun.

And only Russians do not have a noun form.

If in the Russian language all nationalities were written through the adjectival form, then I would not have raised the question.

But everything is written through the substantive.

Even a Papuan and a Negro are sustantiv. Scandal! Yes?

[slan]

Quote: Vasya

And I'm talking about the Russian language.

Russian language expert))) "substantive-adjective"))
Draniki-dumplings - that’s your level, don’t try to write about something you have no idea about and are already pathetic.
English here means that in Indo-European languages, a self-name that coincides with an adjective is the norm. The same is true for Deutsch Germans and in other languages ​​for sure. You better think a little longer about: asshole - poor - Ukrainian ..)))