Kiev begins a new "war" with Russia

Kiev is again trying to solve its problems at the expense of Russia, and it has launched a real offensive on all fronts - in fact, a new round of “gas war” is beginning, the Sevastopol authorities are demanding an increase in the payment for the Black Sea fleet to the treasury of the city. And this is against the background of the complete failure of Kiev’s plans for European integration, the catastrophic fall in V. Yanukovych’s ratings.

The latest problems of Kiev

- According to a study by the Razumkov Center, in May 2011 was fully supported by the activities of President of Ukraine V. Yanukovich 10,9% of citizens of the state, while in May 2010, this level reached 39,1%. In general, almost half of the respondents do not support the current Yanukovych - 48,1%. Even the rating of Russophobe Yushchenko did not fall at such a fast pace.

The main reasons for this: Yanukovych’s failure to fulfill his election promises did not confirm the image of a “strong manager” created for him, the image of the main defender of the rights of the Russian population, a supporter of rapprochement with Russia, the end of the former Russophobic course. Yanukovych was just another "modernization" of anti-Russian, pro-Western leaders.

- The course towards integration into Europe, continued by Kiev under Yanukovych, completely failed. The myth of the coming happiness in the EU burst. In a way, it resembled the myth of “building communism” by 1980 - joining the EU should have solved all the problems of Ukraine. 25 May 2011, the European Commission announced a new strategy for the so-called. European Neighborhood Policy. Neighboring countries of the EU will now be able to get 7 billion euros, but Kiev is not threatened, much less Ukraine and the prospect of EU membership. An application may be submitted, but it does not mean the possibility of joining the EU. There is no one who wants to take on Ukraine’s problems in the EU, they don’t know what to do there with other bankrupt countries. Even financial aid to Kiev cannot be seen - for this, according to European Commissioner for Enlargement and Neighborhood Policy Stefan Fule, Ukraine had to “better” show itself in the previous period. And they do not believe in the success of Ukrainian reforms in the EU, as well as in the success in the fight against corruption. Problems with the so-called changes in the "development of democracy in the country"; in 2010, the progress report on the implementation of the European Neighborhood Policy in Ukraine stated: “The EU expresses concern about the decline in respect for fundamental freedoms and democratic principles in Ukraine”.

As a result, Ukraine has lost the "pink bubble", and then what? Is it not time for the Ukrainian intelligentsia and the authorities to get rid of the marasmic, pro-Western myths ?! Or is it also necessary to destroy the country?

“Since Ukraine is actively negotiating with the EU to sign an agreement on a free trade zone, and several times refused Moscow’s offers to enter the Customs Union.” So, in April of this year, V. Putin even flew to Kiev to break through this decision, with a modified formula - “3 + 1” (three countries of the CU plus Ukraine as a “friend”). Therefore, Moscow has already imposed sanctions on Ukrainian imports since 2005. Currently, Belarus and Kazakhstan are going to do this. It hit the metallurgy and chemical industry of Ukraine. On line meat and dairy products of Ukraine. And all the problems are connected with the persistent desire to integrate into Europe.

Claims to the Russian Federation

- Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov at the talks in Moscow with Vladimir Putin wanted to get a discount on natural gas. Before that, he stated that the calculation formula would be revised and Ukraine would reconsider the price for transit through its territory. But he refused.

Miller voiced a deadly figure for Ukraine - 500 Dol. per thousand cubic meters. Kiev, and so is experiencing a severe shortage, reduces consumption. Plus, the failure of the pension reform, the emission of the hryvnia. Ukraine is waiting for the scenario of Belarus for the fall, only in 2-3 times the worst form, the economy of Belarus looks more stable. Kiev "sat down on two (three) chairs" - now, on the one hand, the failure of the EU accession negotiations, on the other hand, Moscow does not want to encourage the western course of official Kiev at its own expense.

Moreover, Kiev is also trying to put pressure on Moscow through Europe, for this the “Tymoshenko case” is going on, which allegedly signed a contract with V. Putin in exchange for the closure of criminal cases against her by the Russian Defense Ministry. Even the possibility of summoning Putin to be interrogated in this case was voiced. A gas contract will be challenged in an international court.

- The authorities of Sevastopol demanded an increase in contributions to the city’s treasury from the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The theme of the fleet in Ukraine is always linked to gas issues, a kind of blackmail, they say, you will crush, we will reconsider the contract and "ask" from Sevastopol.

In the end, while Kiev, instead of starting a real economic cooperation with the Russian Federation, leads small-town "wars", only worsening its position. Anyway, the West needs Kiev, only to contain Russia. The illusions about entering Europe should be forgotten like a bad dream.

Sources of:
http://www.km.ru/ukraina/2011/06/09/otnosheniya-rossii-i-ukrainy/yanukovich-uverenno-idet-po-stopam-yushchenko
http://www.km.ru/ukraina/2011/06/03/otnosheniya-rossii-i-ukrainy/razrazitsya-li-torgovaya-voina-mezhdu-ts-i-ukrainoi
http://weandworld.ru/ussr/552-ukraina-nikogda-ne-vstupit-v-evrosoyuz.html
http://www.rosbalt.ru/ukraina/2011/06/08/857045.html
http://www.pravda.ru/world/formerussr/ukraine/08-06-2011/1079724-navygas-0/#

Comments

[The]

Customs Union. Gently lay so hard to sleep. Won Belarus got a full ass. It is well-known to everyone that this union is not as economic as the political community of Russian influence. In 2004, it was clear that Russia had 58 percent of the votes, divided by the economic scale of each country. In Belarus, the crisis is now. And Russia only gives money on credit, and the IMF will think for a long time and will not. And the enslaving conditions in the form of privatization will help the Russian capitalists to finally undermine the economy of a small country.
And Sevastopol ... Sorry, gas prices almost doubled over the year. So the mayor's office should take over, all the increased costs of maintaining the communal sphere of the base.

[anatoly]

And here, in general, the authorities of Sevastopol who "demand to increase the payment for basing the Black Sea Fleet to the treasury of the city" I myself am from Sevastopol, this all comes from Kiev, an insignificant part goes to our city for this all goes into the pockets of the villains, this is all complete nonsense of the fat bags and Yanyka ...

[Splin]

And you work at the mayor's office or saw the documents, where the money goes to the pocket. This article is provocative, do not crack it yet, believe me there is as much Russian patriotism in it as there are presidential statements about Libya. "The opposition will not take our contracts away, well, well, they are the authorities."

[The]

PS But Tymoshenko needs to be given the Hero of Russia in general, because it brought economic benefits to Russia over the 2,5 years of the contract, as probably all of Chechnya ea after the USSR, where thousands of innocent boys died, on the one hand and on the other hand it is not clear why.

[MichaelVl]

Den, for the second time I ask you why, while constantly talking about equality in relations between Russia and Ukraine, you constantly say that Russia should not supply fuel to Ukraine at world prices, but at a discount? :) And even when this discount is given, you still LITTLE! :))) This is no longer equality obtained, but payment for your so-called "equality". Your emotional reasoning has neither the answers to the questions people ask you, nor the logic. You say that no one wants to give loans to Belarus, and Russia agrees, but even here you are pouring shit on Russia ... You, like Ukraine itself, rush about, but you cannot decide with whom to be. Sorry, but from your comments I have such a conclusion :)

[Vladimir]

Den
So they themselves proposed the terms of the Kharkov agreements. Or didn’t I have truthful information? If they themselves proposed, at that time Ukraine was happy with everything, so it is necessary to fulfill the agreements. Or do you have a different opinion? When asked how to repay the debts, Tymoshenko stated that they would transfer to ownership of a number of assets - the list has been compiled in Ukraine and agreed with the Russian side, joint ventures will be created, in particular for Antonov Design Bureau, Motor Sich and Yuzhmash, uranium projects, modernization of the Khmelnitsky NPP, Nikolaev Shipbuilding of plant and whatnot. The treaty was ratified by the Rada, they drank champagne, they even sentenced that Russia was fucking up again. Time passed. The gas discount was received, and not weak - 30%. And on the part of Ukraine, not a single condition has been fulfilled.
What would you do, Den?
Now the situation has changed to an extremely bad side for Ukraine. The first line of the Nord Stream has been launched, the construction of the South Stream is starting. With the launch of the second branch of the JV next year, the transit capacity of the Ukrainian GTS will halve. With the start-up of UP, they will stop altogether. The threshold gas price for the main enterprises of Ukraine - metallurgy and potash-chemical production - $ 320-350 per thousand cubic meters. Anything higher - a drop in profitability, costs will exceed revenues, and this is a direct road to bankruptcy. enterprises are the main sources of budget replenishment. Ukraine's external debt is more than 80% of GDP, if not more. Consider for yourself what is the prospect that politicians began to play along with local oligarchs, who demand from their protégés to reduce the price of gas so that their margin from the sale of metal there have been more attempts to raise their rating, playing on the dangerous topic of "pro-Western integration", which for Ukraine, as Merkel said, only after the second coming of Christ, and the boring topic of "pressure from Moscow."
The situation and consequences will be very difficult, even worse than it is now. Your politicians just need to proceed from what is beneficial to Ukraine-EU or cooperation with Russia. If someone thinks that the EU will not take away your enterprises, then this is a diagnosis. If Russia not only takes them, but also modernizes them, invests money, enters them into their own. economic and industrial system, the West will simply go bankrupt and sell it for scrap. So it was in the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania. I do not think that the West will react to Ukraine in any other way. Here, the idea of ​​one’s exclusivity should simply be nailed up or uprooted from the mentality. It won’t work there.
You have to fight for the price of gas no more than $ 300, i.e. achieve reduction of about 200 dollars out of 500. Almost 50% discount. I’m sure that just like that, for beautiful eyes Russia will not drop this price. It will force them to fulfill those agreements, but on different conditions, and in addition a couple of sheets of A-4 format .I know that for sure.

[Superduck]

Not a 30% discount, but a fixed 100 bucks from a thousand cubic meters. And that was good when they cost 300 bucks. With 500 bucks there will be much less sense from them. However, you are right, you signed the agreement, now it’s too late to make complaints, if you want to change the terms of the existing agreements, you need to offer something in return and not run over. Already no one is going to do anything to Christian love.

[Escander]

In the medium term, either former republics with Russia in any status, or colonies of the West.
And in Sevastopol - of course, Kiev steers.

[The]

Is it better to be a colony of Russia? 2 years ago I was in Belarus. I really liked the country. But you have to pay for everything. And what Russian (not Western) oligarchs want to do with it now makes us think.
Even you speak with the politics of chauvinism in relation to other peoples of the former USSR

[MichaelVl]

In the future, Russia and Ukraine will still be together. Eskander is right. Ukraine now behaves like a capricious bride. They turned away from Russia, and now they are reaping the benefits. Why is everything done? - to be more independent from Russia - and why the former republics of the USSR need it and by what methods - apparently all the same, the main thing is to do everything in defiance of the Russian Federation. We need to work, do things in a planned, orderly way, and not breed politicking! Then everything will work out and calm down. And "dependence" on "evil and terrible" Russia will go away by itself, because dependence - it is mutual, it was and will always be!

[dmitri077]

your wife is the Caucasus! and we, fortunately, do not suffer from pederasty ... amazing rhetoric sounds

[Max]

Many politicians from the party of regions, in truth, are afigels after such an aggressive policy of the Russian Federation. Many said that before Azarov’s trip to Moscow, they were supporters of the TS. Then they realized that Russia was stupidly strangling its neighbors because of jealousy that Ukraine finally decided to integrate into the EU. And the worst thing is that the monarchs don’t even hide it ... The Kremlin does not understand that they will lose in the long run, just as they lost the USSR. After all, it is possible that due to the occupation of a third of the territory of Georgia, as well as the murderous price blackmail of the fraternal republics, the entire civilized world, except perhaps Asia, will simply limit Russia to trade barriers. And as we know, following the example of the USSR, hydrocarbons will not go far. So, as the saying goes, how it comes around, it will respond

[slan]

Ukroanaliteg)) China has already been limited? The USSR suffered from restrictions in foreign trade?)) In fact, the most limited is just Ukraine, some prostitutes for export)
Yes, what a manic idea that everyone eats you, is jealous and what else, and if you cry louder, the rich uncles will regret you and punish bad katsapov, and they will give you gum and lollipop))

[The]

At least girls are quoted on the world market, but what do you produce. "Oil and gas is a decision from the TOP, where to place the deposits. Wouldn't it be that Russia is essentially economically represented? The only trump card is a vigorous weapon, and then without petrodollars it is In Germany, there is nothing but coal, but people live more powerful than ours, and in Russia we still have the whitening syndrome - we have not been able to move away from it since 45.

[slan]

Proud Ukrainian DEN)))
Be proud further of your ripe buryaks, crooked mud hats, and weak on painted steppes)) By the way, they are cheaply priced) Better not be proud, but go work for a change as an arbeiter, people even make work from Moldovans.

[The]

But it’s not a thing at all. You did not answer the question. And if you are fighting for women's morality, then go to China. I was there. The entire Far Eastern region of Russia touches and not just clothes ... And the girls of Slavic appearance there are still quite a lot. And then a hut. hut, plague, and what exactly did some good in their own country today. to criticize others. And working at home is superb for me, there is enough money for life, but thank you for the offer.

[slan]

And what I did not answer?) About the Russian Federation or what? Yes, Russia is far from Germany, just as Ukraine is far from Russia, and Modavia is far from Ukraine. This is human population genetics - in Europe, the farther south, the lower the intelligence and welfare. And it is not a matter of natural riches, in fact, Russia itself does not even have coal, Russians subjugated and mastered all the riches, and now it is not an easy task to mine them in Siberia. Well, before the era of hydrocarbons, the so-called Ukraine was always far from Russia, it is enough to compare the Moscow, and dozens of other stone kremlins and the same huts. The same with writing and with everything else. Just as Russia was far from Germany, again you can compare castles, cities, books, weapons .. I’m not a jingoistic patriot and I don’t advise others, I really need to be proud of things, and not that my ancestors were from Sirius.

[The]

I, as a Greek, should be offended. Italians as Romans, too, but Chukhons and finals should be nice. No concept of brain geography. By the way, have you been to Ukraine? I remotely about Norway also do not know how they live there. Yes, and Moldovans are also moral. I am 100 km from the border with them from Odessa. Believe Gaster is not the level of the whole nation but their meager.

[slan]

What, seriously?))) You understood what it was about, about the south allegory. But the concentration of inferior is clearly traced, excuse me, I mean the vector from the predominance of European genetics to Central Asian. Everywhere there are smart and fools, we are talking about statistics. In Russia, fools are also in store for a hundred years. I have relatives in Kiev, I have nothing against the Ukrainians as well as against the Russians. It’s just ridiculous when both of them boast do not understand what, and the Ukrainians in their troubles of the neighbors curse in vain. By the way, Russian population genetics is largely represented by immigrants from the territory of the so-called Ukraine and vice versa. What is there to go? ..

[Slav]

Yeah ... and the Russian outback .. probably hohlushki ... removed at the gas station?
No need to move on to special cases. In Russia, the capitalists squeeze three sweats from the Russians themselves. The appetites of the oligarchs are becoming stronger ... they do not care who you are ... the main profit ... financial flows .. loot. And you ... humiliate each other ... like cattle ....

[slan]

And did I say something about the high morality of Russians? Here, perhaps the Chechen can be cited as an example, as it would not be regrettable for us.

[Splin]

Nord Stream is not scary. And the South ... Turkey simply will not give up its Nabuko, and Europe does not want to sit only on the Russian gas needle. And if only in God’s Lord bring me! !, they will finish Gaddafi, then he will not even be interesting to anyone further than Bulgaria.

[Superduck]

There are no options with Gaddafi, he will leave in any situation, all bets have been made and no one has put him at all, the Libyans will not have any ideology and mono-ethnicity for them to live under the embargo. There are 2 options: if he extends another month, everyone will get tired of it and create a coalition government, if they reach it then they will create a rebel government, but both will sell hydrocarbons to the same place as before.

[Splin]

I myself understand perfectly, but in childhood, we believed in Santa Claus, Baba Yaga in general in magic. And now I want to believe such a little bit.
Gaddafi's corpse is now political, and then real. But Yanukovych, too, in 2005 was considered a discarded card in the deck. So we’ll wait and see. These are Arabs, we will never fully understand them.

[Superduck]

In general, you are right when Fedorych merged in 2004, I told everyone that in a year no one would remember him and everyone agreed with me. However, everything that happened with Yushchenko is happening with Yanukovych now, probably, although nobody knows where it will turn.

[datur]

Yes, I thought that our ehfekivnye managers and steering -deleted- but no Khokhlyatsky even tighter- and all of them do not care people.

[atheist]

1) Ukraine is trying to steer something that does not belong to it, since Sevastopol, according to documents on the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine, Sevastopol remains for the RSFSR — that is, for Russia,
2) we don’t strangle our neighbors, you yourself turned away from us during the collapse of the USSR (Russians get out, get out,) our government did for a long time more discounts than we, ordinary citizens, I would generally decide to take the territory from debtor countries , and not give them loans, they themselves messed up, and repair yourself
3) Well, they will kill Kadaffi, then what, they still do not have enough oil, there will be other wars, because the United States is trying to eliminate unemployment in such wars
4) all the same, China and India will soon decide everything

[Superduck]

The 1978 Constitution of the Ukrainian SSR indicated that Sevastopol is one of two (along with Kiev) cities of republican subordination of the Ukrainian SSR.
I don’t know where all this comes from, while the whole country is without exception.

[atheist]

Sevastopol stood out in an independent region in 1948, and was subordinate to the RSFSR, and even in 1954 they were not violated, and our right is legal, and the fact that Ukrainians scribbled into their constitution, it has no rights, I don’t know where you get it from, at the same time, the whole country is without exception. and we have not given you the rights to Sevastopol, so the fin is for you, not the money

[Superduck]

The Constitution of the Ukrainian SSR of 78 is the last official document of the USSR that regulates its status; there were no others. Since in the constitution of the RSFSR and other union republics Sevastopol was no longer included as an object of administrative subordination, I think there’s nothing to talk about.
By your logic, both Greeks and Ottomans can claim it, who can suddenly say, you know, the Kuchuk-Kainardzhi agreement was somehow illegal, because all other changes in the status of Crimea are subject to revision. It was necessary to immediately apply to the Constitutional Court of the USSR, and now to deny the obvious it is not from a great mind, but rather the opposite.

[Partyzan]

"a catastrophic drop in V. Yanukovych's ratings."
"The main reasons for this: Yanukovych's failure to fulfill his election promises, the image of a" strong business executive "created by him, the image of the main defender of the rights of the Russian population, a supporter of rapprochement with Russia, the termination of the previous Russophobic course" hahaha)))))))))))

Cool humor. For the main reasons, it’s not even a stretch.

[Superduck]

What nonsense, the TV said that these - these mean.

[The]

Vesti "RTR is the main mouthpiece of the truth!"

[PSih2097]

More often see Zomboyaschik, Euronews will also become one ...

[atheist]

that’s exactly what the decree of the USSR, and not the USSR, if you don’t know the story, shut up, there are no Ottomans for a long time, and there wasn’t any in the time of the Greeks, but to go to the court of the USSR when? 30 years before birth, it’s stupid

[The]

And the Japanese consider the northern Kuril Islands their own. You give them back, I think FIG. If it were like you say, then in '92 nobody would have been a rip-off due to Sevastopol from the Ukrainian authorities. And everything else is modern propaganda. Work with life at home, and then teach others!

[Superduck]

You are a boor, so talk to yourself, dog.

[atheist]

but I don’t teach you, you cannot keep the territory on the border with Romania, the struggle for the islands is not in your favor

[Splin]

It was no one could ask. Not islands - but a piece of the sea sputtered. It was a great shame. But under Yushchenko, the authorities gave anything to the West. And under Yanukovych why gas is so expensive. Yes, because he is not just loyal demarcation, he does not give a gram of assets to strategic enterprises either to Russia or even to the West!

[slan]

The Ukrainian authorities are admirable for the persistence with which, regardless of political coloring, they demand free energy resources for their proud people. But the Katsapov’s government is anti-people — at least once they raised the question of lowering prices, say, on Intel and AMD processors, unreasonably overpriced by American monopolists, or here the Japanese sell their cars to us outrageously expensive! But the Russian authorities are selling silently about the aspirations of the common Russian people. And this kind of people, frankly speaking, is smallish, not proud at all, dutifully as if buying slaves, instead of proudly demanding blockade Leningrad from the damned Germans on the forums of the damned Germans Mercedes and Audi for a quarter of the price.

[Ahmet]

All that does not kill us will make us stronger! Even if Russia makes a price of $ 1000 per thousand cubic meters, no one will whine. In response, Ukraine needs:
1. Hang a 5-time lease for the Black Sea Fleet and in 2017 show where Russia is located
2. Place on its territory a radar and a missile defense position area of ​​the United States
3. Join NATO
4. Prohibit the activities of the Moscow Orthodox Church on its territory
5. Introduce a visa regime with the Russian Federation
6. Break contracts with Rosatom for completion of the units at the Khmelnitsky and Rivne NPPs and give them to Westinghouse.
7. To stop pumping (in winter) gas through its territory and not make any concessions until the agreement is revised.

[Aucraig]

1) You can increase the lease for the Black Sea Fleet by 5 times only after 2017, but with a gas price of 1000 bucks, I'm afraid by this time you will stretch your legs. With a guarantee.
2) Radar is a cool target for Russian tactical nuclear weapons. (I think Chernobyl alone is not enough for you ...) To the extreme - for the Iskanders.
3) Well degenerate! Merkel clearly said - only through her corpse! Yes, and Biden and Obama decided to play the reboot. So - not fate!
4) All Ukrainians-deport the fuck from Russia. We can do without guest workers.
5) And not only visa. Also close customs for Khokhlyatsk metal products and agricultural products.
6) And that is right! I agree. When there are a lot of grandmas (maybe share it?), It is better to buy at exorbitant prices, but from Westinghouse! A purely Ukrainian trait - in spite of my grandmother frostbite my ears ...
7) What's so weak? Gas pumping must be stopped. I agree. It's true. And not only in winter, but in general. And sell the pipes for scrap! And heal happy, independent and not fallow. As much as half a year. And then Ukraine will simply cease to exist. Amen!

[The]

I like how Russian respondents reason. I’m sitting at home after the accident, but did you move further away from the computer than the store? I had to go to different places and many countries at work. I agree to drive the Gaster back to Ukraine, otherwise they will go the easy way. There you can bomb more money. Let them work at home, but no, they will leave for Europe. Here is an example that closed the Khartsyzk pipes limit, so oil companies complain about their native metal products. Russia is somewhat reminiscent of Libya there, too, the Gaster did the dirty work. Now there is a war, they fled and collapse in the country, they do not know how to do basic work.

[Aucraig]

1) Yes, I myself traveled the whole world. But I live in general in Australia. So head ...
2) "I agree to expel the Gaster back to Ukraine, otherwise they are taking the easy path. You can bomb more money there. Let them work at home, but no, they will go to Europe." What is it said for? To the fact that your migrant workers are ready to work anywhere, even in Russia, even in Europe, but not at home, because a) there is no job, b) if there is, they pay a penny. Can't feed your family? So I already know it.
3) Russia does not resemble Libya by anything, and will not resemble it. Libya is kicked by everyone who is not lazy. And Russia, as history testifies, can answer in such a way that it does not seem enough.
And lastly. I am not a Russian respondent. I am a crest. Toka is literate. I, unlike some, understand common truths. INDEPENDENT can only be a country like, for example, Russia. The experience behind the Iron Curtain is enormous. And the availability of energy resources, the world's first reserves of fresh water (which in the near future will cost more than oil), other natural resources, the world's third gold and foreign exchange reserve, only reinforce this independence. The rest of the countries have to either unite or fall under the larger ones. Like Europe, for example. There is no third. Otherwise, they will destroy. Like Serbia. Or they will kick. Like Libya. And I understand very well that Ukraine has only two ways - either to lie under Europe, for nothing, behind an FTA, i.e. - generally "for free", and it will be slut, or lie for money. From Russia. For gas. And that will be prostitution. But, if you choose, then - better for the money. What does Europe have to offer? Specifically? Can you tell? In monetary terms? Here Putin ONLY ON GAS offers savings of 6 billion dollars a year. And plus the huge Russian market for almost all (including lard), Ukrainian goods? What does Europe offer? Just come on specifically, in numbers? Did you count? Maybe someone else has counted? No? It's strange. And I will tell you what Europe offers. First, the destruction of competitors. Buying up the most valuable assets. As it was in Poland, Czech Republic, Bulgaria. And the Baltics? Where is the EEF now, where is the RAF? Well, you can go on for a long time. So I'm not one of those freaks who - even in a noose, but only not with a Muscovite. I understand that in today's, real, and not fictional world, you can only survive together. Separately - khan.

[The]

From Australia it’s good to talk about the future of the country. In this kitchen you have to cook to understand all the salt. Suppose I don’t teach Russians how to live, although I also have my own subjective opinion, and not only in Moscow, but often in the Belgorod and Kursk regions, where life is completely different. And you can work everywhere and earn money, also believe a person who has lived a long time from paycheck to paycheck, and she was darling once 3-4 months. Only brains need to be played. Just hard-working hands in life will not always help. And the boxer in the ring also needs brains ..

[Aucraig]

From Australia it is good to reason for the reason that my view is an independent view. "From the side". And in Kiev and Vinnitsa, my closest relatives live, with whom I visit quite often. And I understand all the "salt" better than you. I’m talking about the general, globally, and you - on the tails - about the salary. So don't la-la! And I also teach neither Russians nor Ukrainians how to live. I just ask questions and express my opinion. But tell me why it turns out that in the world today everyone is trying to unite. States unite, at the extreme - create alliances, merge (unite) companies large and small, people try to stick together ... this is nature. Look at the same European Union, NATO. The wolf is alone, outside the pack will not survive, however, like an ant, like a bee. And only Ukraine wants to be "independent". This is utopia. "Independence", like democracy in its purest form, does not exist. Believe me. I haven't met her either in the states or in Australia. These are fairy tales for feeble-minded children. Therefore, whatever one may say, they will still have to unite, sooner or later. There can be only one question: with whom? With Europe, for the FTZ, glass beads and pats on the shoulder, or with Russia, with which the economy has been integrated since the Soviet Union, enterprises are tied to each other, the mentality is the same, gas and oil at domestic Russian prices, the huge Russian market ... what Russia is doing at the moment - putting pressure on the price of gas, so it's just "forcing to peace" It's like two brothers, one of whom "teaches with rods" to the other, unreasonable. He drives the brains into place through the ass. So you're right. And the boxer in the ring also needs brains. Only you, unfortunately, do not have enough brains, and you are rather weak for the ring.

[Ahmet]

It can be seen that you are a "crest". A mixture of katsap, Ukrainian and zhyd. If you were a Ukrainian, you wouldn't be basal, but you loved and respected your Motherland, your people. And you are like a cheap prostitute - whoever pays more goes to that one. Australia today, Canada tomorrow, etc. One word is cheap. I have always despised such people. This is biomass not worthy of respect

[Slav]

What are you crazy about ... And those are good and others. Russia cannot protect the Russian-speaking population in the North Caucasus. Poverty, lack of rights, unemployment flourish there. There is only talk on the box, corruption is the worst. Local anchovies do not count Slavs as people. The authorities only play along with them.
And you ... you don’t say everything ... pull each other for forelocks ... and someone buys everything for federal money ...

[Aucraig]

Precisely because I love and respect my Motherland, I wish her unification with Russia. And if you focus on such a cattle like you, then Ukraine will not last long. And about Australia ... I am a former officer. You nerd, you know, in what condition are the armed forces independent? Everything that is possible is destroyed, and even a little more. I can’t calmly look at how the army is purposefully and systematically destroyed. Destroyed what was created by generations. Destroyed by a cattle like you, only in power. I can’t prevent this either. Therefore, I just decided to at least not take part in this. The heart is bleeding. And living in Australia, I somehow do not see it. Therefore, I live here. And cheap is you. The purpose of your life is to give a shit to Russia. In any way. And how sideways this will affect Ukraine, you do not care at all. Just to give a shit, and there - even though the grass does not grow. The fact that in the best case scenario Ukraine will simply fall into 2 parts, and at worst it will cease to exist at all, such trifles somehow do not bother you. You, the degenerate are offered 6 billion savings only on gas, plus direct profit from the vehicle in the amount of 8 to 10 billion per year. With this money you can raise the economy, industry, you can restore the army, but no, not from Muscovites. Better FTA with the EU. You can even hang out there beautifully, but the economy is the last thing. Truth? Answer specifically, what will Europe give you? Can not? You do not know, or there is nothing to think? You are not even biomass. So ..... a waste product .....

[Ahmet]

Yes you are not an officer but a ghoul. Where did you serve there? Probably an ensign, he stole stew and soap from soldiers! Litter Katsap. Such freaks as you need to be sterilized so that offspring like you would not be given. Schmuck Australian. And about the army - I served in it for 26 years. And I know better than yours about the state of affairs. So, this is largely due to the thieving, greedy, spineless descendants of Judah, who are ready to sell their native mother for a warm place.

[Aucraig]

Yes. They taught you to throw shit. But to think - no. I cannot answer a specific question. Lt. Col. I, not ensign. And I repeat again. For -Removed-. He left just in order not to be involved in this brawl. And you, you see, participated actively. Regarding theft and greed - do not judge by yourself. Anyway, with degenerates, whose brains have less than a teaspoon, it makes no sense to talk. Only to the wall. As pests, as enemies of the people.

[Ahmet]

If you have gone from hopelessness - this is one thing. If the pursuit of the long Australian dollar is completely different. But not respecting the land where you were born, where your ancestors rest, is the height of filth. You say I am involved in the Deriban - yes, in addition to 6 sores and long service, I have nothing. Not even a car. But I love this country, this people, this land. Here I was born, my relatives lived here. My great-grandfather, grandfather and father are buried in this land. And they will bury me in her. And who will you need without your homeland?

[The]

Believe me, probably here most of the officers wore stars. And you are comrade, or rather, Mr. Lieutenant Colonel, (what kind of comrade are you to me) you argue as an officer of the Soviet Army. Believe the Russian army, that government is not a glorious heroic past. My ancestor back in the 1878 war was yes, and the rest of the generations after him were officers and commanders (in the Red Army). And it pains me to see what has become of the great mighty, but life is life. And 6 billion a year is just a sweet carrot, but it can go sideways.
PS I also quit to survive, but for some reason I stayed on my native land.

[Captain]

What relation do you GEORGE have in general to Ukraine? rather to PARASH that you talk about mythical millions. your heart is bleeding because you are a GEORGE, and you have nothing to do with your homeland; it’s from inside, but it still bites you.
But Ukraine really will not be alone, but in NATO and in the EU where the majority of Slavic peoples are already. And Parasha is apparently bent herself in her anger herself creating only enemies around herself. because how to squeeze neighbors and make friends, like you like, grief-rusty racists are not capable of

[Ahmet]

Captain Is this my comment?

[Aucraig]

This is not a compliment to you, but to me. Another shit. Without brains, but with a huge inferiority complex. Even getting into a discussion is boring ...

[Captain]

Attempts to pretend to be super-complete are just your unreasonable show-offs.
I repeat once again if the first time does not reach. You are nobody for Ukraine, and your name is nothing. So lie exactly on your Australian belly, and do not bother to discuss questions to which you have not had any relation for a long time. It really is no longer your business!

[slan]

Thoroughbred Ukrainian))) And it’s like, small, crooked and black, or vice versa, what are they descendants of the Atlanteans?))

[Michael]

And what have you lost in this showdown. There are no flocks here, so go to the mountains for fresh air and ...

[figwam]

Ahmet,
So say - lick the ass of the United States, and then painted on the points ...

[mitrich]

AuCraig,
come back from Australia to Russia. Smart people like you really need us. For example, to Yekaterinburg. In summer, he looks no worse than Sydney.

[Aucraig]

I don't like Sydney. On the road, if you missed, then you will not turn around. And there are a lot of "chocks". Chinese people, Indians, etc., etc. And I'm a racist. Therefore, I live in Melbourne. And Eburg is a good city.

[Mr. Truth]

The West does not need either Belarus or Ukraine, together there are about 55-60 million people whom they still consider "Russians", and the number of whom they "optimize" for the needs of the West.

[mitrich]

AHMET,
maybe so? Does a Ukrainian need to live far from his homeland to understand the truth? I've talked with many Ukrainians, both with permanent residents in Russia, and with "seasonal workers", and they all talked like AuCraig. They clashed, of course, because of drunkenness, but mostly because of history, the "famine" there, Konovalets, Bandera, and strictly about the economy. Only with Russia. There was no disagreement on this.

[Ahmet]

Those who permanently live in Russia are "Ukrainians". They are cunning, hypocritical, they say what the interlocutor wants (they keep the truth in mind, remembering the proverb: my tongue is my enemy). In a word, opportunists. I do not consider them to be Ukrainians - a torn chunk. Real Ukrainians are patriots, and they see themselves not at all with Russia. It will take 15-20 years, farts will die out of the soviet mentality. Then you will see who the Ukrainians are!

[Aucraig]

Morkva on the city
At the bjola garden.
Toad in the swamps
Krila has blossomed.

Want to fly
Quietly even “Kwa!”
Ale to the sky
Not yes Moscow.

Know, know the tricks
Swear Muscovites
Those who want to repeat
Toads are kings.

Schok having thrown krill,
Mov greenery ptah
Tsiliy day soared b
Toad in the sky.

What could I have done
Get to the Zero,
Having adjusted Literati
Toad is a green god.

There is a trim
Get heavier to the grass.
You know the toad for sure -
That is the hand of Moscow.

Fingers in it,
They took the yak.
I trim for an egg
Muscovite toad ...

It seems that you don’t need it.
Seem: “Ti online.”
Ale look into the sky
Toad is all one.

I want to pass
Qi
Dosi
Toad Russian psi.

Godi, damn the bitch,
Gold Moscow
Toad hasn’t died yet
Toad is still alive.

Toad Porin
To the blue,
Bo nemaє nini
More beautiful than toads


http://forum.fraza.ua/read.php?1,63351,63351

[Slav]

What are you crazy about ... And those are good and others. Russia cannot protect the Russian-speaking population in the North Caucasus. Poverty, lack of rights, unemployment flourish there. There is only talk on the box, corruption is the worst. Local anchovies do not count Slavs as people. The authorities only play along with them.
And you ... you don’t say everything ... pull each other for forelocks ... and someone buys everything for federal money ...

[mitrich]

AHMET,
I didn’t want to bother you anymore, but 2 moments were warning me. Firstly, an excellent command of the Russian language and writing, which is uncharacteristic for modern Ukrainians, 20 years after the collapse of the USSR.
Secondly, your words about 26 years of military service. If so, then even as of 2011, if you continue to serve, you began to comprehend army science in 1985, still in the Invincible and Legendary. This means that you are not a boy, but an adult husband far beyond 40.
For Ukrainians of your age, who served side by side with Russians and wore shoulder straps, your cave nationalism is simply NONSENS.
In this regard, the question: who are you actually?

[Aucraig]

Ahmet he. Purely Ukrainian name. Almost Mykola.

[Michael]

fat troll from the Caucasus mountains.

[The]

And I speak 4 languages ​​fluently, unless that’s the point. AuCraig also speaks perfect English. mitrich my native language is russian and my child is teaching in a russian language school. I began to study in 92- after the collapse, and if the conversation was about the Soviet Army or equal unity, then I would not say a word. Here, not nationalism, but faith in one's innocence.

[Ahmet]

I fully support. Friendship can never be achieved by building your relationship with an opponent as a vassal and overlord relationship. Friendship is first and foremost equality.

[Aucraig]

Den, and French is also fluent. And now about the belief in your righteousness. It must be at least something backed up? Or not? Honestly. About an equal association. What you propose is "equal association", that would be ideal. But this does not happen in life, be realistic! Let's look at an example. Putin proposed the merger of Gazprom with Naftogaz. Azarov said - only equal! How do you imagine it in practice? Imagine (exaggerated, but close to the subject): you are a respectable businessman with a huge company with a turnover of billions of dollars. Another businessman in Zaporozhets drives up to you, who has a stall for inflating balloons, and says: "Listen, bro, let's unite our business. 50-50. On an equal footing. This is absolutely normal, and I believe in my innocence." What are you going to tell him? But honestly, what are you going to tell him? Please answer! Only without throwing shit and without cheap nationalism. Otherwise, there is no point in dialogue.
And about 6 billion .... Yes, Putin offers them. And tell me at least one case when he did not keep his promise. Call it real! And at the same time, please remind me, but what did the European Union promise for an FTA? The same European Union, half of whose countries are almost bankrupt, and are in a pre-default state, the same European Union, which is already fit to save. That's how much I remember - nothing! Maybe you have other information? Share it! You are welcome!

[The]

By the way, here I have never once used an obscene and insulting expression. And indeed, after 12 years in the army, I have never used a mate in a conversation.
And now to the question. Not a merger but a joint venture. The pipe's assets, or rather part of them, was offered to be exchanged for a field, even if it was not developed. This is an equal association. The same or similar options for the aircraft industry and shipbuilding and the nuclear industry. They are also slowed down by the disagreement of Russia. And, of course, expensive gas reduces the purchasing power of Ukraine and makes its GTS cheaper. Now 2 "watermelon" dollars a year for the Kharkov agreements, they are virtual. Yes, we save them, but if Tymoshenko hadn’t given them up voluntarily, then there would have been no problem. And Europe. She will just pay real money. And this is not the point, this union is more likely a political influence of Russia than an economic one, you who read not only the Russian, but the world press do not know.

[Aucraig]

Tymoshenko did not "give them away." It was just at that moment that the transit rate was low for Russia. So Tymoshenko suggested - let's do it so that the rate for transit was at European rates, and ..... I agree that the price for gas was also at the European price. At that time, it was really profitable. But! From that moment to the present day, world gas prices have risen 2 (!) Times !!! And the transit rate has not changed! And .... it was not profitable! But, as Putin said - such is the market conjuncture! Bad luck! Who knew! It happened so. But don't be ridiculous about the fact that Europe will pay real money. Well, honestly, don't be ridiculous. This is when it happened, and, most importantly, where and with whom did it happen? I have already asked the question - where is RAF now, where is VEF, where is Ingalina? Tell me where? Please tell me where? Why should they compete? As for Russia. I fully agree that unification is much more important for Russia politically than economically. Economically, Russia will live without Ukraine. Does not live in poverty. But politically .... yes, for Russia it is important. So so what? Russia has its own interests, Ukraine has its own. So with this union Ukraine can solve its problems, and Russia - its own. It is mutually beneficial.

[The]

Do not confuse the contracts of August 2005 and January 2009. I will not detail the latter. but believe me there is complete unprofessionalism and gagging of Yulka. Both Russia and Ukraine will be able to live independently economically integrating into the global economy. Hydrocarbons are passing and disaggregation is already underway. Slowly but coming. Therefore, this article is.

[Aucraig]

And I do not confuse. It was clearly stated in the Black Sea Fleet agreement that Ukraine receives a 30% discount, but !!!! not exceeding 100 bucks. In this vein, she acts. Since that time, the cost of gas has doubled, but at the same time, Russia will not increase the discount in excess of $ 2, according to the agreement. Yes, suppose it's even (just suppose) just Yulka's bungling. So what does that change? Again, Moscow is to blame, or is it Yulka? And independently, as I have already shown, Russia can live, but not Ukraine. How can Ukraine live independently? Let's be specific. Without hydrocarbons and without a sales market? Enlighten ... Maybe I don't know what? Hydrocarbons are transient. I agree. The question is - how much is "passing", and when is "passing"? Tomorrow? Day after tomorrow? By the time the hydrocarbons run out, I can only guess where Ukraine will end up being TOTALLY INDEPENDENT. Independent in the full sense of the word, independent of anything. And there will be degasification. That's for sure. Especially when the South Stream is built. When the North was just thinking, Ukraine was sure that they were taking it to show off. So it will be with the South. Then "degasification" will come for Ukraine.

[The]

May they not build the South Stream. Do not give Europe money. Nor agricultural is Bulgaria. And the Nord Stream is half loaded. This way is more expensive. Italy is so busy in Libya. Having overthrown Gaddafi, they will ensure full energy independence from Russia. And about the destruction of the monopoly of gas supplies to Ukraine by the way the largest consumer), so there is already a contract with Azerbaijan on the supply of 10 billion cubic meters of liquefied gas is 14 billion ordinary. To build here near Odessa and storage. Yes, the question is not one month, but the year is real. We also had (now hardly) contracts with Libya. The Odessa-Brody oil pipeline in obverse mode drives Venezuelan oil, while then to Belarus then to Ukraine. Oil will also go further from Iserbadzhan. I told you, you have to cook in this kitchen.
PS And the Kharkov agreement of 2010 was a small way out of the decisions of 2009, when it was necessary to save the economy. There were a lot of debts and the treasury after Yulia was empty, she even distributed environmental money for eating. Our gold and foreign exchange fund decreased from 2005 to 2009 inclusively by 2.5 times. Why is the hryvnia so collapsed by 35 percent. XC is not a gas contract
So slowly but degassing is on.

[Aucraig]

Well Den, well, it's somehow not even serious .... South Stream will not be built? That's what they once said about the North. And what does European money have to do with it? The northern one was also built for their own. And if you're hinting at a billion from Germany, it's not money. These are the BILLION STATE GUARANTEES. And that's all. And then for these just Schroeder's guarantees mixed with shit. And Nord Stream, at the moment, you will laugh, Den, but it is not loaded at all. Even half. It will only be handed over by the end of this year. And about "more expensive", well, it depends on how you look at it. Reputational losses from stopping gas pumping after scandals with Ukraine are more expensive. About Libya. Again, holy naivete. At a time when the states began to derail Iraq, they agreed with the new puppet government to deal with oil. We signed a PSA. Production sharing agreement. If you don't know what it is - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5% D0% BD% D0

%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D

0% B4% D1% 83% D0% BA% D1% 86% D0% B8% D0% B8 In short, this is bondage. So here. Time passed, the puppet government feared, became bolder, and said to the Americans: but to hell to you all over the face, not the PSA. So not everything is so simple here. And Italy understands this. There are several other interests. Well, as for the Ukraine-hydrocarbon bundle, then read it - http://www.supermoney.in.ua/blog/commodities/14.html There and about your Libya. Anyway .... you open your eyes so that I can’t argue with you in vain. This is a Ukrainian site.

[The]

Under the contracts - half the capacity. Yes, he hasn’t pumped gas yet. And in the Black Sea they are still building Nabucco. This is the South. There Turkey will never give consent to laying a pipe. Libya is not a distant and wild Iraq - it is just a small sea. There are other conditions.

[Aucraig]

Den, the further you go, the more you hit me. This is not even funny. What kind of Black Sea is this and what kind of Nabucco are they building? And can you find out who is building? And since when? Have you already found gas suppliers? And even signed a contract? I, apparently, missed something. Or skis do not go ... Turkey will not give consent? They have already agreed to exploration of the shelf. And the rest - just bargain. This is their national trait. They are vitally interested in this thread. With this valve, they themselves want to take Europe for eggs in revenge for the fact that Europe does not let Turkey into the EU. Eh, Den, you are far from this policy. You don’t understand elementary things. No offense.

[The]

The conversation has already become pointless, because we have already entered real-time analytics and forecasting. Yes, this is my path, but now it is not a subject of controversy and evidence. By the way, Mr. Lt. Colonel, do you ever sleep. If I am not mistaken on the west coast of Australia is now 5 or 6 in the morning?

[Aucraig]

No analytics and forecasting. Only realities. I communicate with Kiev. With relatives. On the east coast - 6 in the morning.

[The]

I also believe that our football team will win 5 minutes before the end of the match, although the score 5-0 is not in our favor. Communication with Kiev from Melbourne is a good thing. It reminds me of how my wife proved three years ago that Chinese cars were bullshit, because she talked with friends, relatives and read forums. I didn’t argue with her and I bought her CrossEstar because I looked at him as an expert and did not orient myself according to rumors. For three years she didn’t know where even THAT pass - I drove the car for inspection. Yes, and recently he saved our lives when Land Cruizer drove into a standing car from the side of the red signal of a stethoscope. Pillows worked clearly and I was lucky as the driver then. Therefore, I can write now. One must not only believe, as he wrote earlier, but also know the subject of conversation well.

[Aucraig]

You're partly right, Den. "One must not only believe, as he wrote earlier, but also know the subject of the conversation well." But the whole question is that you only believe (and this is good), but the subject of the conversation, sorry, you know badly.

[The]

Well, let me not know, you know better there in Melbourne (if only your friends are sitting at the helm of the contract). I work in the field of analytics, I have never made a big mistake (in part, and therefore I have a high salary) The dispute with you is pointless and is not something liquid for me. Perhaps you are right, I will agree only because an ordinary person will never turn water into wine and prove to another person through the "seven seas" whether there is life and a future in Ukraine is a zero option. Let's assume that I'm wrong.
PS It should be apparently forbidden and his wife to sit in such forums. They suck out the brain great, not bringing any benefit.

[Aucraig]

Den, I will never believe that a good analyst can say something like this: "I also believe that our football team will win 5 minutes before the end of the match, although the score 5-0 is not in our favor." Anyone but an analyst. A good analyst, long before the start of the match, will calculate the possible result of the match, having previously “raised” and studied the entire history of victories and defeats of two teams from the day of their formation. A real analyst is not guided in his judgments by "faith", but by sober and cold calculation. Without any emotion. A real analyst does not use the phrase "I believe" in his lexicon at all. And if emotions appear, then you are no longer an analyst. It is a fact! So, either you are not an analyst, or it’s just that you were lucky all this time, or your salary is in vain.

[The]

Learn to distinguish sarcaz from the true text. By the way, I hated football since college. There is faith, there is hope, but there is truth and sober calculation. So I built all my words only on it. But among RUSSIAN and these are all Slavs who speak and think in this language, and not nationality, much is still decided by emotions. We are not Germans. Read all these comments written by these people. And I spoke about them about their faith and yours in particular. And just 7 years can not be lucky I have no klikuhi "Lucky".
Actually this is my last review in this thread. Good luck to all.

[MichaelVl]

AuCraig, you understand what logic Dena and other guys with similar views have - they talk about an equal alliance, but constantly with the proviso that Russia should give them fuel prices lower than world ones :) You have already given them 10 examples on this topic "about businessmen "and so on, and so on, and they are all on emotions. What is the sober dialogue here? Just squeals and squeaks :)

[MichaelVl]

Why are you guys from Ukraine all so offended? :) Why does Mother Russia constantly offend you? Is it not because your life has "improved" so gloriously, that you are rushing about and currying favor with the EU, and have sharpened your skis in NATO ... You are not doing well, it is clear already. How long can you be hysterical? And then, you constantly talk about independence, and immediately think about where to enter :)))) It's funny :) If you have chosen an independent path of development, do not enter any NATO or EU :) To enter, by the way, and not it will turn out, no one needs you there. You don't need it yourself, blackmail is all political in order to annoy Russia. You are wasting time, that's all.

[mitrich]

And who when Ukrainians in Russia denied equality? I already wrote that the history of the USSR is half Ukrainian, how many leaders of the state were from Ukraine. Who humiliated Ukraine? I remember my teacher at school (Ukrainian) - he was fluent in Russian and mov (and no one bothered him to own mov). And this is in the Urals. Wasn’t this an equal relationship?
It was just that the once united state collapsed, each one began on its own, and you began to blame us Russians for your troubles. Although we are one people with you - not Great Russians, not Little Russians, but just Russians, from the word Rus. These shitty Poles confuse you all the time. And you hate your bros.

[Ahmet]

Unlike the Russians, the Poles do not impose their orders and conditions on us. Do not pretend to Neftegaz, gas transmission system, large enterprises, territory. They do not teach us how to live and with whom to be friends. And you, the Russians, remind me of gypsies (to fool, lure, to appropriate someone else's). Let 1 Gypsy enter the house, in a day he will bring the whole camp and will survive you from his own home. This is how Russia behaves. Therefore, they all hate you - you are trying to teach everyone how to live.

[Aucraig]

Ahmet, are the Poles not imposing conditions? Have you thought well? This is the first. And secondly - now the European Union itself imposes conditions on the Poles themselves. So it was, it is and it will be so. Let's be honest ... Russia is really imposing its conditions. It's stupid to deny it, and I'm not going to do it. At this particular moment, Ukraine is at a crossroads, because Both the EU and Russia have set their terms tightly. There are only 3 options.
1) Send them all tries. But this is not real, and completely ruled out.
2) It agrees with the TERMS DIED by the European Union. You can, of course, but you need to figure out what it will give. I ask again - who considered this? Can you tell me? Joining for glass beads ... somehow I do not want to.
3) CU with Russia. And here everything is precisely indicated: what, when and for how much. Or am I wrong? Refute. Just come on without shit. So everyone dictates their conditions. And the EU, and the USA, and Russia. It was, it is, and it always will be. The only question is what conditions to agree to. And about the fact that no one claims to Naftogaz and other enterprises ..... do not make me laugh! Yulka Kraska, a long braid, when she was in her time, was dangling to Europe to agree on the modernization of the gas transportation system. I went for the dough. There they explained to her: we’ll upgrade the system for your grandmas ... but! You will wrap and pack us 50% of the system for this. And about other enterprises ..... Mittal has bought up part of Ukrainian metallurgy for a couple of years, and it’s not buzzing! Or isn’t it? About the Chinese generally sad silent.

[The]

I already wrote before the USSR and modern Russia are two big differences. Unfortunately, everyone dictates from the position of the strongest and even the United States by the way. Look at Belorussia and it will become clear that modern Russian (non-Russian) businessmen just want to chop off its tidbit enterprises. There is no brotherly love here for a long time, you should not hide behind it.

[Escander]

Oh well. Chop off non-Russians. Does that make it easier for you?
Akhmet-Ukrainians have Russian gypsy camp. And where is the grass from?

[Ahmet]

Here is the true face and essence of the new Russia: http: //tsn.ua/analitika/nash-susid-gazprom.html

[Aucraig]

You're right, Den. And this is sad. Including about the "Russian" businessmen .... Jews ... But the recognition of this fact does not change the essence of the matter. So what to do? Will you go shoot them tomorrow? No. That's it. And brotherly love is not here. Only a sober, cold calculation. This is what we must proceed from. Choose the best option for yourself. Just don't think that Europe is a panacea for all ills, that Ukraine will be welcomed there with open arms and that ass will be licked to blood. This will not happen! Here is someone who, but Europe will undress Ukraine to the skin - that's for sure! History with numerous examples confirms this.

[The]

No one is looking for a panacea, and Europe will not undress Ukraine. Therefore, they are afraid of us there and want to limit quotas. I was there. In addition to quotas and euronorms, they have no leverage to deter. The Baltic states came there in the 90s when my salary was $ 40. Yes, there they took a cheaper one. I didn’t fight in Latvia then, but I had all the home appliances from there. And 2 years ago I saw there- NOTHING. In fact, cheap rest of well-fed Europe at its backyard.

[Aucraig]

"And 2 years ago, I saw NOTHING there. In fact, a cheap vacation of well-fed Europe in its backyards." It's right. And why and what are they afraid of? The example of Polish plumbers is still fresh in my memory. This is what they are afraid of. And only this. About the "levers". I didn't understand something ... they have no leverage to prevent the import of Ukrainian rolled metal and agricultural products into the EU? Is this a joke? Are you sure that they will easily say to their own producers: "hey, guys, step aside, make room for Ukrainian products"? And local producers immediately rushed to scatter, making room for Ukrainian goods .... It's funny. Honestly ... Well, well ... Den, you just don't know much about the West, even personally, and the ways of doing business. No offense. Don't be so naive.

[The]

I wrote quotas and all. Our products are cheaper and better. Take a word and be afraid. And this concept includes everything. I am the LORD Lt. Lieutenant, I went to Europe neither as a tourist. Anyway, I only relax in my homeland, and I feel comfortable here. Places to know!

[Aucraig]

Which products are cheaper? Fat? May be. Everything else is bye cheaper. The profitability of the Ukrainian economy is at the border of 320-350 bucks for gas. With the increase of this border, the Ukrainian economy begins to slowly but surely bend. Will you be waiting? But we are not talking about that now. This is not to say that you are afraid because your products are cheaper. YOU JUST STUPIDLY DO NOT LAUNCH there with your products. Because it is cheaper. But with an increase in the price of hydrocarbons, you yourself will not take your products to Europe. Because it will be more expensive than there. In general, horseradish radish is not sweeter.

[Slav]

I fully support.
We are pushed together by our foreheads ... while we canine ... our rulers will only do their business. They are violet who we are ... Only profit drives them. And we ... we are one ... we are co-religionists .. we have one story. And while we are together, no Pindos and other things are powerless .. so they want to divide us ... to rule ...
About me ... Ukrainian .... Dnieper is my homeland. Officer of the Navy of the USSR. I’ve been living in Russia for 30 years .... And now I’m divided in two ....

[mitrich]

Au Craig,
all our attempts at dialogue with these people are a conversation between the blind and the deaf. You still can’t explain and prove nothing to them. As for Akhmet, I’m sure that the biography is fictitious. I won’t say anything about Dan.
I crawl on this site from 04.05.11/XNUMX/XNUMX. There is a circle of people with whom it is interesting to talk with, here is ESCANDER or VLADIMIR, for example. Here it is possible to enrich one another with information. There are other men. But you can’t prove anything even more devils, who at least get used to it. So in vain you strain.

[The]

I have been visiting this site for more than a year, I just never entered the discussion, this was enough for me for work. I tried while "fixing" at home.
Believe me, I am not trying to prove anything to anyone here; there is no real sense in this. Here everyone has an established opinion. Just saying don’t touch. Let’s figure it out for yourself.

[Aucraig]

And rightly so, Den. Understand it yourself. Well, and if you didn’t take it hard, still answer my questions, otherwise it somehow doesn’t work out well. Verbally.

[The]

To be honest, I got confused in the comment scheme. It seems that all the questions were answered.

[Ahmet]

And this is how your once best friends relate to you: http: //www.rosbalt.ru/main/2011/06/11/858103.html

[Aucraig]

Well, you read ... http://forum.inosmi.ru/showthread.php?t=13694

[MichaelVl]

AuCraig, mitrich, all right say. I support eskander too. Den, Ahmet - emotions alone pour.

[mitrich]

Then come on, Den, while you put out the emergency cap, discuss Libya and missile defense. And then the issue under discussion is painfully painful. Is it possible that the military of the two states, "hating" each other, have nothing to talk about?

[The]

ABM, and especially Libya, are painful topics for me, but these are not comments on this article. It is a pity there is no forum, you will have to wait for a similar topic.

[lordinicus]

I am interested in the opinion of people on such my conclusion.
What is strange is a collection of people for a better life. If there are more than 100 people in a group, then a boss appears who begins to lead. This is the way humanity works.
Why do you need bosses (prime minister, president, official)? The bosses are called by the people of the group (community, tribe, kingdom, strange, autonomy) to resolve conflicts in the group. Conflicts in a group always arise, take at least a family of two people, because they also have friction. If a group is not one clan and there is no “elder clan” that solves controversial issues, then the group must have a senior (Example: if children in a family argue, then it is decided who is right and who is always guilty of the father). Since the bosses do not produce something for the group, they only consume (Example: bosses do not work in factories to feed their families, do not plant potatoes in order to eat in winter), bosses must be kept. For the maintenance of superiors, a fee is levied on each member of the group (tax, surcharge, fee, tribute, etc.). But the authorities not only solve problems, they also lead the group to prevent conflicts (Example: there is land on which the group lives. The land consists of two parts drier and rainier, so that there are no conflicts in the group, the authorities decide to build an irrigation system on a drier territory, in the construction work is attended by all members of the group from both the dry part of the earth and the more rainy. For such a project, we need engineers, managers, etc. All this money is spent, collected how to file).
Now, as for the Ukraine-Russia issue.
When there was no democracy - the country was ruled by “the richest man in the world” (in Russia he was also called the autocrat or Tsar), the leader of the territory was appointed the richest man in that territory (for example: prince, count). Based on this logic, it becomes quite clear who wants what and who makes decisions for whom (the rich want to become even richer. The people want to get their piece better, the small piece - rebellion and rich on fire, so that the next count or prince would have science).
But after the advent of democracy, who runs the country ??? For the president does not own factories, millions of hectares of land and he is not the richest man in the country. And as we know, the country is ruled by the rich, but if it is not the president then who then. The answer seems to me like this: billionaires rule the country. We take the magazine of the 100 richest Russians or Ukrainians and look at the country's leaders. It is these people who choose presidential candidates or candidates for deputies, and only after “THEIR” “blessing” do ordinary people vote for one of the “approved” ones.

[lordinicus]

Based on this logic, a reasonable question arises, and why, then, smart and educated people are obsessing each other on these pages and the most important topic is who is worse than Muscovites or Ukrainians. My opinion is this: Akhmetov (he was the one who “blessed” Janek) was not allowed to buy a single metallurgical plant in Russia, was not allowed to build a chocolate factory (there is such an AVK factory). In contrast to Russia, Ukraine was given the green light to buy many factories (chemical and engineering industries) and enterprises (the purchase of the largest mobile operator Kyivstar), plus they "allowed" to start acquisitions of Motor Sich (it produces 90% of the engines for Russian helicopters ), Design Bureau "Antova" (the development of transport aircraft and the establishment of production at Russian plants), Design Bureau "South" (rocket and space technology). But Akhmetov and other Ukrainian billionaires did not receive anything in return. All of them reasonably raised the question “what’s for a divorce” and a command was given to suspend integration with Russia “until it changes its mind”. In response, an increase in gas prices.
It seems to me that this is the real reason for the increase in gas prices and the drying up of everyone and everything in the press. Is there a grain of truth in this? Who thinks what?

PS I am a Ukrainian, there are relatives and acquaintances in Russia, I speak Russian, but I do not think the return of the likeness of the USSR and the Russian Empire in Ukraine is buzzing.

[makrus]

Au Craig is sound. I would like to add one current, I live in Vladivostok and around the year 2007 or 08, large Moscow companies came to our market and this killed the local business, mostly the auto business. This very embittered people, but on the other hand began to develop the territory. BUILDING GOING SIMPLY OF THE SOVIET SCALE. Although mainly Uzbeks work for them and are constantly thrown at the salary, legends also come about theft, but at least something is being done ...

[makrus]

lordinicus I am Ukrainian, there are relatives and acquaintances in Russia, I speak Russian, but I don’t think returning the likeness of the USSR and the Russian Empire in Ukraine is buzzing.
OTHER OPTIONS ARE WORSE. THAT IS WHAT THE SALT IS IN. Regarding the "green light" HERE IS JUST A QUESTION OF PRICE AND YOUR DEBTS. This business, no one with you sweet speeches will not. You have built a fucking **** state in twenty years, we also have no sugar, but there is no such circus. It was necessary to engage in populism less

[Cheese]

I read it, went nuts, thought. It is understandable that poor Ukraine, like a dowry girl, does not know to whom to sell her virginity. As well as other things, it is not for her to decide. They will decide in the Kremlin and Washington, and not even in Brussels. Although, in principle, they have already decided. The bride was in Washington, and the right of the first night will belong and already belongs to Moscow. It was decided back in 2007, between Putin and Bush. Remember Putin's famous remark about Ukraine. And by magic, the pro-Kremlin Yanukovych became the new president. Why pro-Kremlin? Let us recall the main claims of Moscow to Kiev during the Yushchenko era. This is Sevastopol and the Black Sea Fleet. These most intimate places of geopolitics have been decided in whose favor? That means virginity. But you have to pay for everything pleasant. So the Russian Federation paid with gas. Not only that, the young wife should also be presented with gifts as true gentlemen, but at least in the form of a vehicle. But the wife suddenly imagines herself "royal" and stubbornly rejects these gifts, and even looks at the overseas prince to the pile. Yes, the Russian Federation does not give a damn about all this. Until 2141, Ukraine will not go anywhere, as after. And whoever said that all the actions of the current rulers of the Kremlin are dictated only by their love for Ukraine.
And for me, it would be better if Ukraine went to the EU. The EU would ravage all "best and cheap" industrial production, as some here write, and clear the way for Russian companies. We, Russians, do not need competitors, not in metallurgy, not in the military-industrial complex, and in agriculture too.
But the laws of geopolitics and geoeconomics cannot be fooled. As there is the southwestern border of the Russian Empire along the Prut / Lower Danube, even Catherine the Great and Generalissimo Suvorov could not do anything about it.

[Ahmet]

Chill, holy fool. These are all your violent fantasies. You won’t take us without blood! Are you ready to spill it yourself, or your children? And you are useless warriors, the Caucasus has shown. So calm down. And Russia has only 30 years to survive. Then Great China will swallow it. Amen.

[Aucraig]

Akhmet, here I, for example, can list almost all the military victories won by Russia. Throughout the history of its existence. Can you tell me at least one military victory won by Ukraine? (for the entire, not very long history of Ukraine's existence). Well, at least one! Oh please! This is where we will end the clarification about the "useless warriors". Ukraine will not survive three years. Itself will fall apart. And no one will have to "swallow" it. Now come on. I expect from you a bunch of shit, hysterical insults, and other manifestations of offended and humiliated independent and independent self-esteem.

[Aucraig]

By the way, Akhmet, about "shedding blood". And how much blood amers shed in Libya? You see, now the trend is not to carry out ground operations. So they use missile systems and aviation. So, in which case, no one will shed blood. Rockets and aviation. And, just in case ... to remind you where you put your Buki? You no longer have them ...

[Superduck]

"Can you tell me at least one military victory won by Ukraine"
Borodino, Battle of Kursk, Capture of Keneksberg, Capture of Berlin are the battles that Ukraine won as part of the Russian Empire or the USSR. Do you know how an empire differs from a principality?

What better name are a couple of the great battles that the Moscow Kingdom won after the conquest of Russia by the Tatars from the 12th century until 1654 i.e. the entry of Ukraine into the subordination of Moscow and the formation of the Russian Empire?

[MichaelVl]

Well, you, Ahmet, turned down, dear :))))) The warriors are not thin ??? And what did the Caucasus show you there? (by the way, the Caucasus is generally an internal matter). You have already suffered complete nonsense because of your emotions. Stop Reason soberly.

[Cheese]

Why so nervous dear? Did I say somewhere that you should be taken by force or blood? Hysteria is not necessary, I simply affirm, as always, by the way, that we have already raped our own. And now, dear, go to the EU, we are not flayers, let them rip you off as sticky and only after that, you yourself will crawl to us. And then we'll see.
By the way, about China. While we will share the planet with China, you can only hope that you will be left with at least your self-name.
About the holy fool. You yourself recognize me like that. And the holy fools in Russia, however, as elsewhere, predicted fate.
Opus about the Caucasus - nonsense is not commented.
And the last Ahmet. Learn to lead a discussion, it is worthless to saliva to spray in a decent society.

[Aucraig]

"Learn to lead a discussion, it is not worth splashing saliva in a decent company."
It is useless, Ost. This is the only thing Ahmet can do. Spray snot on the monitor, and throw shit. But he does not know how to think. Nothing.

[Pinocchio]

I agree with Ost. You have to be correct.

[syday]

Ahmet, you are very funny, well, just our Russian buffoon. I live in the Caucasus and such clowns in hats here are a dime a dozen. Hot you are our abrek.

[Pinocchio]

Ahmet filter the bazaar. We don’t need your blood. Do not touch our army. Kakvkaz did not show anything proud. And for Russia we’ll release the guts. And we will not see that you are Ukrainian Ahmet, or the great Chinese.

[Michael]

And only one thing surprises me - the question arose - where to go to Ukraine - the fateful issue for the country and why it should be decided by thieves in power (based on their interests) and not the people. Yes, everything is simple - REFERENDUM (all the pros and cons to the studio) - and the people will decide and democratically shut up and swallow their defeat. And do not insult each other here, do not care about the well of history (like the pearl that Stalin is a fool). Look for a simple solution in a complex, much less lying on the surface.
Yes! Respect each other, be like there in Ukrainian - tolerance one to one.

[figwam]

The laws of nature are as follows: everything and everything will return to their places, something will happen in the world that will force the republics of the former USSR and not only to turn their faces to Russia, because there will be no better option.

[MichaelVl]

You say it right, damn it, time will put everything in its place. Just do not want to wait for years ... And you have :)

[makrus]

Ahmet, you are su ... but the real netrosa is sacred. I don’t know what the Caucasus showed you, but do not touch it with your fucking ... language.

[Aucraig]

Take it easy, makrus. We will wait for him to answer my question. If he answers. What I doubt very much. But there will be a lot of shit ...

[bomber]

The territory that they invented and legalized for themselves will be carried out by Ukraine. There is no legitimate authority. Yanukovych - - the curse removed -. Power is in the truth. SEVASTOPOL RUSSIAN CITY.

[Ahmet]

You don’t touch our President. He was elected by the people, honestly - to him and lead the country. And you have katsaps, there’s even no choice - as the masses decide in Moscow, it will be so. And rightly so, you do not deserve to choose. You need a king. And the AuCraig and Makrus sexots paid to FSB - well, you are visionaries. Your army is a bunch of oligophrenics, corrupt officials and amateurs. What is she capable of? Is that scare Georgians. I’m in a hurry, I’ll be all in the evening.

[Aucraig]

Well what can I say .... Ukraine doesn’t even have such an army! All sold out. To China and Georgia. By the way, you did not answer my question. Maybe you’ll try?

[Ahmet]

You are a cool downy. Woof woof woof; woof-woof-woof, why bark like a dog? Oh, got it! You master the grub. Come on, bark on. And what was your question, remind?

[probe]

Unfortunately, what most Ukrainians write is more emotional nonsense. reading is difficult. Ukrainian himself live in Murmansk. it just so happened that, by the will of fate, our family was brought so far. so after all, there was only one homeland. I remember my father generally left for work in Magadan. huge country, huge opportunities. what infringed Ukrainians ???? !!! Have you forgotten who led the USSR? Everyone was there. And what is not a country of equal opportunity ?? !!!! who wants to enslave you? !!! what nonsense we read !!!! how many Ukrainians live in Russia ... someone infringes on them ?? !! Ukraine disconnected .. the lords won, the local princes became presidents, and you personally, what you won ??? just sent a child to relatives on vacation in kremenchug. Bosch there earns so much that ... my dear ones and you still think that it has become better !!!!! Yes, there are, as elsewhere, the rich, who incidentally have to do with oil refining. But most of this has to do with it. For most, the salary is simply miserable.
Huge trying - huge opportunities. A giant market for everyone. Why did the Ukrainians think that Europe is closer to them ?? !! You look at how many comments from Russia. How do people worry that fraternal peoples live apart !!!
Stupid !!! Counting a penny. 200 500 600 dollars. You can’t even imagine what prospects could be in the future !! This is the restoration of military cooperation, of course, normal energy prices, huge sales for Ukrainian goods, investments in the Ukrainian economy. Why do Ukrainians so poorly assess their capabilities ?? !! Indeed, in Russia it’s not plowed, not sown. You can also invest there. Free movement of labor. Where is this slavish ???? !!!
Who needs you in Europe ?? Think about what you get in return. Common Economic Space ?? !! Yes, they will eat you there even faster. Your goods are not needed there. Russia loves and knows you, and who are you for Europe ??? They say correctly ... Only girls they need. In the end, it’s better to be second with Russia than the penultimate in Europe, where you will always be looked upon as barbarians.
Do not bend in any case in front of Russia ??? !! And what did you do before America ??? !!! It was disgusting to watch !!!! Open your eyes - you are barbarians and cannon fodder for them.
Russians love Ukrainians. And what language is like a song !! My daughter does not know Ukrainian, but when she comes to Ukraine, she tries to learn him not because she is Ukrainian, but because she is delighted with him.
You read one thing in the forums, but if a Russian comes to Ukraine, then the relationship is just fraternal.
What prevents us from uniting again ??? 200usd for gas ??? !!! but give you these 200 300 your same pans they just gobble up and not choke and it will be just zilch !!!

[Aucraig]

Well that's it, zond. Now you have been paid by FSB sexots.

[mitrich]

DEN
it’s just that you started a dispute in which you won’t understand without a bottle. Such issues need to be discussed at a well-laid table (as an option, in Yulia Tymoshenko’s bed), rather than forums. All the same, you won’t come to an agreement.

[The]

"This is definitely your truth. But not on Yulka's bed. I was talking to her. He’s still a brain dispenser, and he’ll take away your last money. Gypsies at the station have to study and learn from her.

[huginn]

In general, there are many more good people in Ukraine, but if you are rubbed from morning to night that Russia is an enemy and all the troubles are somehow connected with Russia, then doubts about friendship between Russians and Ukrainians will grow every day! Ukraine is an independent country and there is no need to hope what kind of concessions there will be for this independence from Russia. Let them learn how to independently steer their own state without requiring concessions from their neighbors.

[His]

Che so all disagree with this Ukraine? Who does she need ... with all her straw. Girls alone are good

[clearbalo]

I don’t know about you, but here is the best site
movie 24.rf
http://киношка24.рф

[Crimean]

Yes, sir, just a variety of styles and opinions. I give my comment as a native Crimean. Ukraine is a rich country, everything is there, even the Crimea. Only, here's the catch - it is necessary to establish a normal "management", and this has not been done in all 20 years of "independence". Well, they could not: somewhere they stole something, somewhere they slammed it, they beat it on something - everything is in Russian. Yanukovych, in fact, primarily does not represent some kind of popular strata and strata, but a group of oligarchs who benefit from Ukraine's entry into Europe in any status. But Russia has grown wiser in 20 years, has become stronger and also realized that Ukraine is a necessary territory. And what is happening now, both with gas and with the navy, is an economic and political war, and such that to death. I think that Ukraine has three options: 1) to lie under Russia, 2) to move to Europe, even under the threat of an economic crisis, 3) to stand in the middle between Europe and Russia. I'm afraid option # 3 is being worked out now.

[Staff_]

"When my great-grandfather, a hereditary Zaporozhye Cossack, having learned that now we are Ukrainians and even a country like this, he gathered the whole family, and ordered to convey to the descendants (fortunately, we have passed it on): We are a Cossack clan, we cannot do this. And we are from the Russian family, we are from Zaporozhye. And I shob this in the house more ne chuv. I will push usih. And I could.
So dear gentlemen ukry, you do not need fairy tales about two people, or two nations. This is utter nonsense. Russia has a lot of Ukraine, but for some reason it’s Western, it has shown off so much that it needs independence, from its own, and rumor has turned into a language. And he calls himself a state. Oh sorry the great-grandfather did not live, although maybe this is for the best. He was severely untruthful, and the Communists.
My great-grandfather, had an estate in the village of Sabovka near Lugansk. Named saber from the hetman, and diploma. All this was stolen, or destroyed by the Bolsheviks, the estate was taken. And all this because he decided, and yet he cleaned the snout of Parkhomenko, only because this peasant called himself a Cossack. At the same time, Voroshilov was present, and a platoon of soldiers. Which then returned, and yet dispossessed.
Only the saber is said to have been hidden somewhere. Eh, I would find .... "

[Superduck]

Well, he said this, too, not quite in Russian (well, in the modern sense). Remember, Sholokhov also had that the Cossacks refused to make relatives with Ukrainians.
And yes, there is little. However, this is how nations are formed. Almost all of us were once in Europe Indo-Europeans who spoke the same language, and over there in Europe are now peoples. It's me that the process is slightly natural.

[limigiply]

Would you like to know about your loved one's profile, what are the best friends and girlfriends saying behind their backs?
my [e-mail] http://infomoimir.com/s.php?f=7766

New information service from infomamba http://infomamba.com/s.php?f=7766