Military Review

"Proton-M" prevented sabotage?

85
The chairman of the commission to investigate the crash of the Proton-M carrier rocket that occurred on 16 in May of this year, based on an analysis of the information gathered, is not ready to exclude the version of sabotage from the number of versions of the causes of the disaster. This information transmits ITAR-TASS.


"Proton-M" prevented sabotage?


Danyluk said that several expert groups are working on clarifying the causes of the Proton-M accident. The work is carried out both at the Baikonur cosmodrome, and at manufacturing plants, in the design bureau and at the MCC. In this case, Danyluk notes that sabotage is only one of the studied versions. The main version, which is currently being checked by experts of a specially created commission, is related to the fact that the cause of the accident could be the destruction of the bearing mounting of the turbopump in the 3 th stage steering engine.

Recall that the failure occurred approximately on the 9-th minute of the Proton-M flight, which put the Express-AM4P communication satellite into orbit, the cost of which is estimated by experts more than 7 billion rubles. The failure occurred during the operation of the third stage of the launch vehicle.

A special commission to investigate the causes of the disaster included a 24 man from the Ministry of Defense, Roskosmos, various research institutes and NGOs.

Today, 29 May 2014, Roscosmos reported on the successful docking of the Soyuz TMA-13M manned spacecraft with the ISS. Press office Roscosmos:

TPK "Soyuz TMA-13M" moored to a small research module (MIM1) "Rassvet" of the Russian segment (RS) of the ISS. The rendezvous process was carried out automatically under the supervision of specialists of the Center for Flight Control of Federal State Unitary Enterprise TsNIIMash, the TPK crew as part of the cosmonaut of the Roscosmos Maxim Suraev, the flight engineer astronauts Reed Weizman (NASA) and Alexander Gersta (ESA), as well as Russian crew members of the ISS cosmonauts Alexander Skvortsov and Oleg Artemyev.

The head of Roscosmos ON.O. Ostapenko who was always in touch with the crew congratulated astronauts and astronauts on successful docking and arrival on the ISS.

The planned duration of the crew onboard the ISS will be 167 days.
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  1. Ascetic
    Ascetic 29 May 2014 14: 54
    +30
    Damn, there are no words already ... Illiteracy. Pofigism, curvature and greed of effective managers, someone thought of shamelessly covering up with sabotage ... Of course sabotage is blast, and we are white and fluffy ...
    I agree with Rogozin who stated the following
    “The emergency commission of Roscosmos should first complete the work and submit its results to the government of the Russian Federation, and only then torment society with new versions of what happened”,

    Leave the version of sabotage by the appropriate authority, and be occupied with people and control of technological processes and operations, then there will be no sabotage
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 29 May 2014 15: 03
      +11
      Quote: Ascetic
      and do it yourself people and control technological

      Something is often often mistaken recently, and for some reason, when putting our satellites into orbit. For some reason, Westerners have a lower percentage of accidents. Accident, mistake? You need to fight for such mistakes without taking them out. And pick up an article for such errors. And then the maximum will be fired from work. am
      P.S. Hello Stanislav. hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Djein
        Djein 29 May 2014 16: 00
        +9
        [quote = Ingvar 72] Something is often wrong lately, and for some reason, when putting our satellites into orbit ...
        There are no mistakes ... Selling is limitless ... they do it so that they don’t really find the reasons .... This is the art of sabotage .... With moronic amers, not a single rocket fell ... And here is such a long catastrophe ........
        Only a naive and a malefactor will talk about errors during assembly to divert suspicions .... There are too many rotten and corrupt souls ... With the advent of "DERMOCRACY" this is RANDOM ... Do not act surprised ... already sick of them ... They wanted dibi-l-ny "freedom" ... get it ...
        Only limited moral ones could not understand what was pouring into us along with your moronic gadgets .... There were no people .... Pay for this and an endless number of times ... See what is happening all over the world and everything is going on growing ... Inhumans it should be so ... Comfort yourself with a lie until you die ..
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 29 May 2014 16: 05
          +2
          Quote: Djein
          Only limited moral ones could not understand what was pouring into us along with your moronic gadgets .... There were no people .... Pay for this and an endless number of times ... See what is happening all over the world and everything is going on growing ... Inhumans it should be so ... Comfort yourself with a lie until you die ..

          How many emotions are addressed to me ... laughing Boiling up? But this is not for me, I am the same. Although I agree on the text. request
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. midashko
        midashko 29 May 2014 16: 40
        0
        Get to the bottom!
        If this is sabotage, then the next time to correct statistics with amers will crash. We don’t feel sorry for our own people, but here we are as if we will look pale. Technology is technology, and it is necessary to check carefully and draw conclusions.
      6. Grenader
        Grenader 29 May 2014 17: 44
        0
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Something is often often mistaken recently, and for some reason, when putting our satellites into orbit. For some reason, Westerners have a lower percentage of accidents. Accident, mistake? You need to fight for such mistakes without taking them out. And pick up an article for such errors. And then the maximum from work

        Responsibility is needed the toughest, because mistakes are too expensive. It is worth recalling the experience of previous generations:
      7. sso-xnumx
        sso-xnumx 29 May 2014 20: 56
        +1
        Paid accident! our satellites interfere with someone. Seek someone profitable!
      8. Erg
        Erg 30 May 2014 01: 08
        +1
        It is not a matter of errors, but of the imperfection and backwardness of technology. Now the states are developing fundamentally new space technologies, and it’s cheaper for them now to buy from us than to be distracted from the main advanced developments
    2. MOISEY
      MOISEY 29 May 2014 15: 04
      +5
      It's time to catch outright zasalants at all levels in the structures of Roscosmos, "sent by the Cossacks" smells a mile away, just an unplowed field for the FSB departments.
      1. I think so
        I think so 29 May 2014 15: 35
        -2
        There is hardly any intent here ... A simple mess in the design bureau, in the workshops, in the management ... So many years they have destroyed ALL INDUSTRIES OF PRODUCTION ... why should we be surprised now ... Russia has ALREADY ROLLED to the level of 50-60 years IN ALL PARAMETERS ... Neither machine tools, nor equipment, nor cars, TRACTORS, and it DOES NOT PRODUCE ... The Society of BEZELNIKOV, BOLTONS, AND TRADERS ... This country has no prospects ... And now and even more so when it (Russia) was taken FOR REAL ... after the loss of Ukraine, Russia can only be slightly squeezed and she herself will crumble to dust ... Minus "hurray patriots" but in 5-7 years you will be surprised what happened and how ...
        1. grandson of Perun
          grandson of Perun 29 May 2014 16: 09
          +1
          First, intent cannot be ruled out. Because the pattern is visible - unsuccessful launches that are only significant for Russia: Phobos-Grunt, three Glonassa, a powerful and expensive communications satellite.
          Secondly, machine tools, equipment and cars are produced in Russia, and no worse than their imported counterparts. Do not repeat the misinformation from the pro $ ralipolymer cycle and degenerate comedy labs.
          Thirdly, Russia had no prospects in the 90s, and now the real events in the country have no reason to panic "boss, everything is gone, the plaster is being removed, the client is leaving."
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 29 May 2014 17: 24
            +2
            Quote: Perun's grandson
            cars are produced in Russia, and no worse than imported analogues.

            What are these, let me curiosity?
            1. sso-xnumx
              sso-xnumx 29 May 2014 22: 44
              0
              "Ural"
        2. Demon0n
          Demon0n 29 May 2014 22: 55
          +1
          Quote: I think so
          There is hardly any intent here ... A simple mess in the design bureau, in the workshops, in the management ... So many years they have destroyed ALL INDUSTRIES OF PRODUCTION ... why should we be surprised now ... Russia has ALREADY ROLLED to the level of 50-60 years IN ALL PARAMETERS ... Neither machine tools, nor equipment, nor cars, TRACTORS, and it DOES NOT PRODUCE ... The Society of BEZELNIKOV, BOLTONS, AND TRADERS ... This country has no prospects ... And now and even more so when it (Russia) was taken FOR REAL ... after the loss of Ukraine, Russia can only be slightly squeezed and she herself will crumble to dust ... Minus "hurray patriots" but in 5-7 years you will be surprised what happened and how ...

          Even if we exclude the version of sabotage, the human factor (a more general category, which includes sabotage) cannot be excluded.
          People have become petty and selfish, they don't give a damn about anything and everyone is busy raising themselves loved ones (of course, at someone else's expense). Naturally, there is a rejection of similar personalities, since interests are mutually exclusive, hence the conflict, therefore, we need singers and close ones who are willing to toad up (at the same time, many profess a similar ideology). The result - a handful of eternally gnawing eccentrics with the letter "M". What kind of production, development of something is appropriate to talk about? At best, no one cares, but usually such incidents serve as an excuse to eliminate competitors (among other things). Only a few tear their ... for the sake of a common cause (and they are prevented from doing it).
          This is not a mess in KB, but a mess in society. How not to recall the saying about a well-deserved power, while transforming it a bit ...
        3. Erg
          Erg 30 May 2014 01: 11
          0
          You are mistaken, Dear, until the 50-60s you can not slide down, but only grow. After all, then we were the first ...
        4. g1v2
          g1v2 30 May 2014 01: 25
          0
          I feel sorry for you, poor fellow. Well, sit and wait for it to fall apart.
      2. varov14
        varov14 29 May 2014 17: 01
        +1
        So in the FSB, apparently the same saboteurs, they used to put up against the wall for sabotage, now they can roll off the order. What uncle do we work for? The green "mold" has eaten all my conscience.
    3. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 29 May 2014 15: 28
      +1
      If the next investigation of the next accident ends in another zilch without punishing the saboteurs, then it really means:

      Quote: Ascetic
      Damn, there are no words already ... Illiteracy. Pofigism, curvature and greed of effective managers, someone thought of shamelessly covering up with sabotage ... Of course sabotage is blast, and we are white and fluffy ...
    4. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 May 2014 15: 30
      +1
      Illiteracy. Pofigism, curvature and greed of effective managers, someone thought of shamelessly covering up with sabotage ..
      Or just fail under a stronger article. I would only be FOR.
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 29 May 2014 15: 56
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Or just fail under a stronger article. I would only be FOR.

        There has been no article for sabotage for a long time, so they are not afraid!)))
        1. Erg
          Erg 30 May 2014 01: 14
          0
          One friend said (and he was a collector) - "the rocket took off - fell into a swamp. What a salary - such a job ..." The market, however ...
    5. mamont5
      mamont5 29 May 2014 16: 04
      0
      Quote: Ascetic
      Leave the version of sabotage by the appropriate authority, and be occupied with people and control of technological processes and operations, then there will be no sabotage


      Yes, they seem to have already abandoned this version.
    6. Tersky
      Tersky 29 May 2014 16: 20
      +2
      Quote: Ascetic
      Leave the version of sabotage by the appropriate authority, and be occupied with people and control of technological processes and operations, then there will be no sabotage

      On November 9 on November 2012, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin posted the following information on his Facebook page:
      "The Ministry of Defense, in accordance with my instructions, confirmed its readiness to restore the number of military acceptance to 25 thousand. This is exactly how much should be according to the Decree of the President of Russia. Under Minister AE Serdyukov, they were reduced to 7,5 thousand officers. A radical reduction in military representatives led to the decline in the quality of military products. " AND...????? The Proton carrier has become a laughing stock for the whole world, and a disgrace for Russia, and the same locksmith Pupkin is to blame, as it was two years ago. We can only regret that its fragments did not fall on Washington. Stanislav, hi !
      1. sso-xnumx
        sso-xnumx 29 May 2014 22: 45
        0
        Absolutely right! Everything is just like that.
      2. Erg
        Erg 30 May 2014 01: 18
        +1
        What can I say if the people responsible for the quality of parts (on control) do not receive even twenty thousand ... I don’t understand why space is so expensive. Maybe the fact that we are giving our bosses prizes of one hundred thousand? We need to think ...
    7. serega.fedotov
      serega.fedotov 29 May 2014 16: 21
      +2
      Quote: Ascetic
      Leave the version of sabotage by the appropriate authority, and be occupied with people and control of technological processes and operations, then there will be no sabotage

      Sabotage can be different — it is not necessary to set the sawn-off bolts to agent 007, lobby (scrubbing) the appointment of the necessary boss, and he will ruin everything!
      True, where the relevant authorities look, it is not clear.
    8. Letun
      Letun 29 May 2014 16: 57
      0
      Can someone tell a thread, but how much money will the insurer reimburse? The whole amount (7 billion) will not be reimbursed? These bloodsuckers somehow do not mind repeat
    9. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 17: 20
      +1
      Quote: Ascetic
      Illiteracy. Pofigism, curvature and greed of effective managers, someone thought of shamelessly covering up with sabotage ...

      That's right! When "Illiteracy. Pofigism, curvature and greed" lead to failure, they start looking for enemies and pests.
    10. Lelek
      Lelek 29 May 2014 17: 45
      +1
      Since the person became upright and began to dance, something between his legs prevents him from doing this. Sloppiness and irresponsibility is the name of the cause. fellow
    11. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 29 May 2014 18: 33
      +1
      good to grind, not knowing the ins and outs ... some spray of saliva, no more.
    12. Erg
      Erg 30 May 2014 01: 04
      0
      In general, our lag behind the states in space "business" dates back to the late 60s, when we allowed the states to get ahead of themselves in landing on the moon. Even then they had a perfect "Saturn", while we still fly on weakly powerful imperfect engines
      1. Andriuha077
        Andriuha077 30 May 2014 09: 50
        0
        1. Where is that "Saturn" now, why so?
        2. What engines are leading in the ratio of quality to price? The US is now flying on whose engines?
  2. Proud.
    Proud. 29 May 2014 14: 56
    +7
    What? It is time to return the 58th article of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR?
    1. APS
      APS 29 May 2014 15: 03
      +2
      Article 281 of the Criminal Code is also not bad! But the 58th is more effective ...
  3. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 29 May 2014 14: 58
    +5
    Those working at enterprises where space and other similar equipment are manufactured and assembled, together with good salaries, should be provided with a "whip" in case they carelessly perform their duties, as was the case in the USSR.
    1. max702
      max702 29 May 2014 15: 04
      +12
      There are no good salaries for those who make and assemble space and other similar equipment , but only those effectively manipulate ...
      1. Erg
        Erg 30 May 2014 02: 00
        0
        Thank you for conveying my thought to the masses. Somehow they didn’t hear me. Respect
  4. aleks 62
    aleks 62 29 May 2014 14: 58
    +7
    ..... Neither x ... imagine sabotage !!! .... They ruined a large modern communications satellite ..... Under Stalin, for this ..... I will not continue ..
    1. Erg
      Erg 30 May 2014 01: 20
      0
      And do the right thing ...
  5. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 29 May 2014 15: 01
    +15
    Something, somehow with the "bearing of the turbopump of the 3rd stage engine" .... Sounds clever for the layman. And how was it determined if all the iron burned out in the atmosphere? Significantly know which bearing and where they put it. Inspection and preliminary testing of the product must be carried out by qualified specialists. And not GB-schnicks retired. Khrunichevsky Zavod is generally a reserve for senile "bison", which can hardly get into the toilet with a stream, not just like a rocket into space. This is generally the trouble of our defense industry. Lack of succession of generations in CRAFT. Either strappers in insanity, or youngsters who simply did not have the opportunity to learn from the SPECIALISTS. Thanks to the early mess in the defense industry. The situation is starting to level out, but still work and work. An executive layman is sometimes worse than a saboteur. Shortcomings in the upbringing of the younger generation must be corrected. To leave already from the standards of the 90s-0s, when girls dreamed of becoming elite keepers and boys - "lawyers-economists". Spit on top of the crowd - you will get into a lawyer-economist with a purchased diploma and no seniority-experience. And PRODUCTION was an unworthy occupation. There is a tendency to change concepts, and that is GOOD for the Russian Federation.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 29 May 2014 15: 08
      +14
      Quote: chelovektapok
      Khrunichevsky plant is generally a reserve for senile "bison"

      My uncle works at Uralvagonzavod, and so, from his words, young people come to the plant near, if not stupid, with huge education gaps. Old workers leave, but there is no adequate replacement. request
    2. Suhov
      Suhov 29 May 2014 16: 13
      +9
      Quote: chelovektapok
      Khrunichevsky plant is generally reserve of senile "bison"that are difficult to get into the toilet with a jet and not just a rocket into space.


      The remark is true,
      attitude is wrong.

      Embossed (without war, mind you) a generation of those (30-50 years old) who:
      on the one hand, they are still quite "young", have the strength and desire to work,
      on the other hand, it is already quite "old", i.e. have the knowledge and experience to work with dedication.
      Previously, they did not pay - the specialists fled. sad
      Now at least pay, at least do not pay - few can work. sad
      Profukali, in a word ... fool

      And those "bison", hi who are still working (or trying to work) for Khrunichev,
      worthyat least - respect for the, at least for the fact that only they remained carriers of knowledge and experience that they can share with young people,
      when it finally comes to *** managers that engineers need to pay for work ...
      hi
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 29 May 2014 18: 06
        +1
        Quote: Sukhov
        worthy of at least respect,

        drinks
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 17: 43
      +5
      Quote: chelovektapok
      Inspection and preliminary testing of the product must be carried out by qualified specialists. And not retired GB-Schnicks.

      Here is one of the troubles on the face! The point is in the system, and we are starting to look for "pests", we have already passed.
      Quote: chelovektapok
      Khrunichevsky Zavod is generally a reserve for senile "bison" who can hardly get into the toilet with a stream

      Here is another trouble. And damn blat. At our enterprise, the head of the personnel department, I built eight relatives and not anyhow where. The most interesting was a history teacher in the position of an electrician for the maintenance of electronic equipment. The truth did not last long, because - absolute ZERO! And how much is this in the country?
  6. Pimply
    Pimply 29 May 2014 15: 08
    +2
    SUDDENLY, as they say
  7. Vladimir1960
    Vladimir1960 29 May 2014 15: 16
    +7
    Crossed with workers at the Khrunichev plant 3 years ago. When they told me about the situation at the plant, the blood in my veins was cold. And about the staff and about managers and guest workers. No words, one swearing !!!
    1. I think so
      I think so 29 May 2014 15: 46
      +3
      An unprincipled society has no prospects ... Having destroyed the main idea of ​​the USSR, the new "effective managers" did not offer anything in return ... but only destroyed and destroyed "totalitarianism" and with it everything great and progressive ... The communists destroyed the old world in the course of 20 years have brought the countries to the level of the first technological countries, and after victory in the war and in general, the leaders are therefore the question ... and the current ones over 25 years have ONLY DECREATED EVERYTHING and DID NOT MAKE ANY STEP FORWARD ... The current system in Russia is doomed! It is used by the West, that to Erase this state from the face of the EARTH, and the power and the Russian "elite" by ALL FORCES contribute to this ... The collapse and death of this once great empire are not far off ...
      1. Hope1960
        Hope1960 29 May 2014 20: 42
        -1
        The first part is correct, but as for the "current system" - the big is seen at a distance - it is not for us to sum up the results: the descendants. The system will be different, not Soviet, but I am sure - no less effective.
  8. Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 29 May 2014 15: 17
    +2
    Quote: max702
    There are no good salaries for those who make and assemble space and other similar equipment , but only those effectively manipulate ...

    So I say: both "carrots" and "sticks" are NECESSARY ... Otherwise, it will be difficult to avoid art and hack ...
    1. I think so
      I think so 29 May 2014 15: 58
      +8
      Dear you are wrong about the "carrot and stick" ... This is SECONDARY! First of all, we need an EMPLOYEE Proud of his creation! ... Well, and to help such a worker, you can use a carrot and a whip, so that everyday life does not get enough and so that he does not relax ...
      The current "effective managers" do not even come close to understanding how CREATIONS are created, their little mind is only enough to steal and frighten ... They will not be able to CREATE ANYTHING IN PRINCIPLE! Russia should be left with SENSE attempts to stay afloat with such IDEAS and such LEADERS ... there will be only disappointment and financial human image losses ... Now in Russia, IN ALL KEY POINTS, there are INOMPETENT people in power ... any indications, but only not on the basis of COMPETENCE in the issue that is "supervised" ... This is a GLOBAL STRATEGIC (!) failure of the country ... the country DOESN'T AND DO NOT EXPECT ... And that means the country WILL BE SELF-DESTRUCTURING FURTHER ... No matter how bitter it is to say this, but alas ... Amen! ...
  9. Giant thought
    Giant thought 29 May 2014 15: 17
    +3
    It is possible that sabotage, with only the missiles that start from Baikonur lying around, only this leads to bad thoughts.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 19: 52
      +2
      Protons are launched only from Baikonur. What other thoughts?
  10. podpolkovnik
    podpolkovnik 29 May 2014 15: 18
    +2
    TPK "Soyuz TMA-13M" moored to a small research module (MIM1) "Rassvet" of the Russian segment (RS) of the ISS. The rendezvous process was carried out automatically under the supervision of specialists of the Center for Flight Control of Federal State Unitary Enterprise TsNIIMash, the TPK crew as part of the cosmonaut of the Roscosmos Maxim Suraev, the flight engineer astronauts Reed Weizman (NASA) and Alexander Gersta (ESA), as well as Russian crew members of the ISS cosmonauts Alexander Skvortsov and Oleg Artemyev.

    The head of Roscosmos ON.O. Ostapenko who was always in touch with the crew congratulated astronauts and astronauts on successful docking and arrival on the ISS.

    The planned duration of the crew onboard the ISS will be 167 days.


    In addition to ours, the rest - on foot should be sent ....
  11. Captain45
    Captain45 29 May 2014 15: 19
    +2
    Interestingly, the "Soyuz" start and fly normally, but with the "Protons" some kind of crap, they fall every other time, especially if satellites like "GLONASS" or communications what
    1. aleks 62
      aleks 62 29 May 2014 15: 37
      +1
      Quote: Captain45
      Interestingly, the "Soyuz" start and fly normally, but with the "Protons" some kind of crap, they fall every other time, especially if satellites like "GLONASS" or communications what
      ...
      ... As I understand it, there are all the problems with the new overclocking unit (stage 3) ... If stages 1 and 2 are old and well-developed, then even 3 does not work ...
  12. RPG_
    RPG_ 29 May 2014 15: 19
    +1
    Catch and execute the zealot! In China, sabotage is not possible for this reason.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 17: 53
      +2
      “It is difficult to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if she is not there,” Confucius.
      If you really want to catch, you can appoint, arrange a public process and severely punish.
  13. mig31
    mig31 29 May 2014 15: 22
    +1
    Brain failure in topic number one is sabotage, Rogozin with the nth departments, to conduct a thorough investigation, otherwise we will one day fall and do not get up ...
    1. Juborg
      Juborg 29 May 2014 15: 34
      0
      The nth departments are not the same. Won today fighters took, but not the FSB, but for some reason the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Probably a bo-o-big purge is coming in these same supervisory bodies.
    2. I think so
      I think so 29 May 2014 16: 02
      +3
      not that we will one day fall and not stand up ...

      So the country ALREADY LIES AND IS NOT TRYING TO STAND ... and you mean "once" ... This "once" happened about 25 years ago ...
  14. propolsky
    propolsky 29 May 2014 15: 25
    0
    Not a supporter of tough measures, but here excuse me, the country's prestige! You need to find the one who tightens the screws with the left-hand thread to the right. Such grandmas fly into the pipe !!!
  15. Zhekson
    Zhekson 29 May 2014 15: 27
    +1
    I, too, was somehow visited by thoughts of saboteurs on behalf of launches of cargo ships. fell last year, but remember the launches of the GLONASS program ?? it is necessary to drip bespectacles there - maybe that will manifest itself
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 17: 57
      +3
      Quote: Zhekson
      it is necessary to drip bespectacles there - maybe that will manifest itself

      Do not offer to dig there, and then the last "bespectacled" will leave. Where they do not "dig", but create conditions for work.
      1. K-36
        K-36 29 May 2014 23: 50
        +6
        Dear Bayonet.
        Let me tell you a very recent story. About a month ago I arrived at my Su-24 airfield from repair. For reference: there is one in the Air Force fundamental chip... It consists in the fact that before delivery from the repair plant to the troops, the aircraft must be flown without fail. And according to the results of the flight, get the go-ahead for transfer to the troops. And what? I flew around and got the go-ahead. Arrived at the unit. Made several flights in my unit. Only here objective control all the time involuntarily tried to "cut" his flights. For he always showed reverse-mirror overload. That is, during takeoff, it is negative, and during landing, it is positive. We got to the bottom of our joint brains that the angular velocity sensor along the X axis (ie longitudinal overload) "chudit". And then I remembered "Proton" with its "GLONASS". And I asked the techie a question: "Is this device attached to four symmetrically located bolts?" In response, I heard a confirmation. The conclusion itself sounded in the question. All that's left is to go and rotate the sensor 180 degrees. Bottom line: everything worked as it should!
        Otsel Three questions:
        1. How did the plane get the go-ahead after the factory fly-over?
        2. From whose pockets do military receivers receive remuneration for their labor (not from the factory cash desk)?
        3. Who in the country can Once and for all solve this problem with four symmetrical mounting bolts for rectangular blocks? What, it’s so hard to make three (or five) mounting holes, allowing you to put the rectangle only in the only possible orientation ??
        So what, and here it is impossible to ask "bespectacled people" questions, so as not to injure their sensitive substance?
        hi
  16. Juborg
    Juborg 29 May 2014 15: 30
    +2
    IT IS TIME TO RESUME THE ORDER AND CONTROL AS UNDER THE USSR. EVERYTHING IS SCROLLING THE USSR, AND THE QUALITY THAN THE ROCKET HAS BEEN BETTER, ON THESE MISSILES TILL TODAY, WE SEND TALLETS TO SPACE.
  17. Flinky
    Flinky 29 May 2014 15: 32
    +1
    What the hell is sabotage? Ordinary incompetence and lack of professionalism. For this you need to tear, and hard to tear.
  18. Yellow white
    Yellow white 29 May 2014 15: 33
    +1
    I agree with the posts above, and with the article, it is suspicious how protons fall precisely with expensive equipment on board that helps our country ... I think sabotage, as well as direct deliberate sabotage, is possible!
  19. kyznets
    kyznets 29 May 2014 15: 36
    +9
    In 1985 at the factory, when we made a military order, the military representative pulled all the veins out of us, with tolerances, processing purity, and quality. They paid more for the military, but the plan was much more difficult to drive. And this is from the blank production - with the quality of the metal, the hardness after heat treatment and throughout, until assembly. Everywhere there were military representatives with a measuring instrument and they spat on the plan, etc. They were paid by another department. And what is this babbling now about the bearing in the pump? What nonsense anyway? Who makes protons and where? Car mechanic Petrovich in the service station, or in the ship repair shops? This is the space industry, where everything should be piece and worth SUCH money? Then the question is directly about Putin: "Where is the money, Zin?" Where does this huge amount of money go if not for production, control and quality? Who gets them and for what?
    1. Sergey Vl.
      Sergey Vl. 30 May 2014 00: 32
      0
      It turns out that stealing from the state is not profitable:
      1. The prestige of the country is suffering.
      2. The term can be shlopotat.
      3. The Lord God will punish.
    2. Andriuha077
      Andriuha077 30 May 2014 01: 03
      0
      Quote: kyznets
      if not in production, control and quality? Who gets them and for what?

      B ***, for example, when the state purchases risk-related services - It is forbidden to buy commercial insurance (anti-corruption law). Therefore, the state customer "insures itself" by buying additional services - checks, tests, etc..
      Example: Launch price *** - 9 for commercial customers = 56 mln. $, And it is fixed - it does not depend on the type of satellite or the final orbit. But - two launches of state satellites **** have already been booked, and they will cost 87 million and 95 million (In fact, commercial customers also buy insurance - 15-25 million, depends on the satellite price. But anyway, the difference is significant). The state pays more.

      In RUSSIA: the opposite is true. The state has a “boyar approach” to Khrunichev - they say that we allow you to trade with Basurmans - for this, give us a discount. And bargains the launch at almost cost. The result is quite obvious - quality suffers.

      Conclusion:
      Prohibit cash insurance. The released cp-v should be sent to quality control.
  20. WIN969
    WIN969 29 May 2014 15: 42
    +1
    Given the lack of qualified people in production, anything can be assumed, but the human factor has nowhere to go.
    And in general it seems strange to us that we launch a satellite that enemies do for us, do they really believe that at one fine moment the satellite will not stop working at the request of the geyropa?
    Idiots need to be driven out of the space industry, and satellites should be made in Russia from Russian microcircuits.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 29 May 2014 16: 05
      +2
      Quote: WIN969
      Idiots must be driven out of the space industry

      Do not drive, but plant with confiscation.
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 May 2014 18: 02
      +3
      Quote: WIN969
      and to make satellites in Russia from Russian microcircuits in Russia.

      You seem to have no idea how things are going with electronics.
      1. Tatar 174
        Tatar 174 30 May 2014 05: 45
        0
        This is now a patamushta missed. And under the USSR, Buran, remember what happened before him, I don’t think that there were imported electronics components. It takes time and freedom to return everything as it was and to produce its own and work for the future. And you cannot trust anyone and China in this matter, including
  21. capex1
    capex1 29 May 2014 15: 48
    +4
    From this extremely unpleasant and unfortunate incident, I think our engineers will draw conclusions and fix the problems. Most likely, the lack of qualified personnel is very influencing. He himself studied at the Samara Aerospace University in the 90s, and how 95% of the graduates went not to factories and design bureaus (yes, I think we were unnecessary there at that time, to feed our engineers), but on "free bread". We will reap the fruits of democracy in Russian for a long time to come.
  22. semen777
    semen777 29 May 2014 16: 00
    -2
    Quote: I think so
    There is hardly any intent here ... A simple mess in the design bureau, in the workshops, in the management ... So many years they have destroyed ALL INDUSTRIES OF PRODUCTION ... why should we be surprised now ... Russia has ALREADY ROLLED to the level of 50-60 years IN ALL PARAMETERS ... Neither machine tools, nor equipment, nor cars, TRACTORS, and it DOES NOT PRODUCE ... The Society of BEZELNIKOV, BOLTONS, AND TRADERS ... This country has no prospects ... And now and even more so when it (Russia) was taken FOR REAL ... after the loss of Ukraine, Russia can only be slightly squeezed and she herself will crumble to dust ... Minus "hurray patriots" but in 5-7 years you will be surprised what happened and how ...

    Aha, "the kingdom of whores and hucksters"! But that's the point, dude, you, like those Decembrists, are terribly far from the people, how many times they predicted our demise, and we all live, in spite of goats and whiners! Order must be established, and he -I would like to be quiet, I would like to do it faster, but not everything is done so quickly in such a territory. And believe me, dear, nothing will crumble, but it will only get stronger, with the release of ballast
    1. Djein
      Djein 29 May 2014 16: 33
      +3
      [quote = semen777] and he still quietly induced ...

      Chew this lie, this chewing gum, offer it to others, those who will agree, until everything collapses on your head and you will sing ... If it changed for the better, such a long chain of falls would have been interrupted ... These are real events. .. and
      you cannot replace them with false promises and fake optimism ... We must become REAL, GOOD PEOPLE .... Now you will only hear such a deaf-and-whistle gossip ... you can’t endlessly lie to yourself and others ...
      This is not optimism, but vile debility, and a number of recent events in our country and around the world confirm this .... EVIL wins, no matter how deplorable it is and gloatingly amuses itself in the face of all sorts of donks. .. who have nothing left except their belly ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  23. ATATA
    ATATA 29 May 2014 16: 05
    +2
    Yes, there must be the entire Roskosmos "screw up" (C).
    All that they did was Korolev and his chicks did it, these same parasites, only grandmothers sawed with a chainsaw. Friendship 2 is capable of.
    Looks like they are sharing with someone upstairs, who are still sitting on their chairs with their assholes.
  24. Burmistr
    Burmistr 29 May 2014 16: 17
    -3
    Our guys went into orbit. And what are they doing there? What are you doing? Sortitis clean for Americans?
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 29 May 2014 18: 39
      +2
      Have a bite! (WITH)
  25. Signaller
    Signaller 29 May 2014 16: 17
    +3
    I wrote already. Roscosmos is the most criminal office. The rocket flew away, good. The rocket over the hill went off, also not bad. Grannies received. All the facts of sabotage or specific stupidity, flew away. Then find the facts ?? Everything burned out. No, there is no trial, as knowledgeable lawyers say.
  26. 1st_user
    1st_user 29 May 2014 16: 45
    +2
    I see that the version of sabotage is not supported here. The only problem is that Express-AM4R was of colossal strategic importance. This satellite was not only supposed to seriously expand the telecommunication coverage of remote corners of the country, but also obviously had a dual purpose. And this already means that the version of sabotage, at least, cannot be rejected.
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 29 May 2014 17: 01
      +1
      That's it.
  27. Andrew 447
    Andrew 447 29 May 2014 16: 46
    0
    EGGS prevented him ..... (someone from Roskosmos).
    1. 1st_user
      1st_user 29 May 2014 16: 48
      0
      Og, those same EGGS of someone from the security service.
  28. Strashila
    Strashila 29 May 2014 17: 07
    +4
    "the cause of the accident could be the destruction of the turbo pump bearing fastening in the steering engine" ... that the material is not the same, the seat failed when boring or the bearing was not mounted correctly ... I will not be surprised, after mounting the sensors upside down and this needs to be considered what exactly ... ???
    Or a Chinese bearing ???
    The notorious savings ... budget optimization ... greed, greed, stupidity and stupidity at all levels ... hold on to a place at all costs ... the whole family will fly away after him from the feeders ... maybe you will try those who will work invite, maybe then something will move.
  29. dievleha
    dievleha 29 May 2014 17: 09
    0
    The last time the welder was to blame, the next time the collector was to blame, and now who is the mechanic-uncle Vanya? Maybe it’s time for Rogozin and others to work with them and not to throw dust in the eyes
  30. Platov
    Platov 29 May 2014 17: 14
    0
    How many effective managers were removed from work, not a single one. So rockets will continue to fly through the stump deck. They lack Stalin.
  31. INFOLegioner
    INFOLegioner 29 May 2014 17: 36
    0
    But isn’t it easier to give back, as in the USSR, the entire space industry to the military, and with the supervision of the taciturn FSB men. There will be more order and less sabotage for sure. And then these PRIVATE CORPORATIONS for superprofits will soon be exploded by Baikonur and Plesetsk and Moscow, and the cleaning lady Aunt Masha will be to blame because someone has punished someone’s hope ...
  32. bubla5
    bubla5 29 May 2014 17: 43
    +1
    And was there a satellite, it was not easier to launch bricks into space unsuccessfully, but to cut the loot, with our irresponsibility and uncontrollability, everything probably happens this way, not treason, just business, it's not the first time
  33. rereture
    rereture 29 May 2014 18: 07
    0
    In the meantime, you vegetables will be indignant on the Internet, and nothing will happen. Where the pancake is a dialogue between people and power? Why are we indignant on the Internet, and not on the street? Why are there no rallies about the landing of Serdyukov? No mints in support of a pure proton accident investigation? Why are there no rallies in support of New Russia? How many of you are registered at the ROI, the People's Initiative (CPRF), or at least on change.org where you can show your public initiative?

    Yes, because you can only wag your tongue in the kitchen. And you call any people who are ready to act libersts and swamp hamsters.
    1. Metal bro
      Metal bro 29 May 2014 18: 27
      +1
      You yourself think who will allow rallies against the current government. Uncomfortable somehow. There are already new laws on rallies. In an instant, they will disperse and find someone to plant.
      And you will immediately write on the site that this is how this "fifth column, traitors, etc." drive in the neck!
      1. Barsik
        Barsik 29 May 2014 20: 03
        -1
        You yourself think who will allow rallies against the current government. Uncomfortable somehow. There are already new laws on rallies. In an instant, they will disperse and find someone to plant.
        And you will immediately write on the site that this is how this "fifth column, traitors, etc." drive in the neck!

        Anekhren to go to meetings. You need to deal with the matter, work and not flaunt your point of view
        1. rereture
          rereture 29 May 2014 22: 17
          +2
          That is, you forbid to exercise my right, which was given to me by the constitution?
  34. Metal bro
    Metal bro 29 May 2014 18: 23
    +2
    Yes, let's punish hard-working assemblers and engineers. And revealing crucifix! And instead of one thief-manager we will put the next one in the order of priority. Not all money has been saved / utilized from the allocated for materials.
  35. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 29 May 2014 18: 44
    0
    Sabotage is very possible ... Protons do not work too selectively.
  36. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 29 May 2014 19: 34
    0
    So you think about the 58th article of the Criminal Code, which all liberalists hate because it is precisely what prevented it.
    58-7 from 1927 Undermining state industry, transport, trade, money circulation or the credit system, as well as cooperation committed for counter-revolutionary purposes by appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or counteracting their normal activities, as well as using state institutions and enterprises or counteracting their activities, committed in interests of former owners or interested capitalist organizations, i.e. industrial sabotage:
    or 58-14 from 1937. Counter-revolutionary sabotage ”(Articles 58-14) was defined as“ deliberate failure by someone to fulfill certain duties or intentional careless execution of them with the special purpose of weakening the power of the government and the activities of the state apparatus
    Remove the word counter-revolution and the whole point does not change. Actions against the state and its peoples.

    By the way, it’s quite democratic - in the Criminal Code of democratic America it is
    intentionally damaging, destroying, contaminating or contaminating, or attempting to do so with respect to defense (military) facilities, materials or fixtures with the intention of harming or interfering with US defense (in peacetime), harming or interfering with the United States or any associated nation in military preparations , in the conduct of war or defense (during wartime or during the state of emergency).
  37. Strashila
    Strashila 29 May 2014 20: 15
    +1
    The collapse of the quality management system adopted in the USSR ... everyone considered it and much was not just in the requirements.
    Now they save ... they reduced it here, they let it pass ... the result is only losses.
    System failure ... you, about Bulava for a long time did not hear news ??? Where are the winning stories ???
    And these are the problems of one spill.
  38. uzer 13
    uzer 13 29 May 2014 20: 40
    +1
    [quote] [the cause of the accident could be the destruction of the mounting of the turbo pump bearing in the 3rd stage steering engine]

    In industrial turbochargers, the ball bearing on the axle operates at full load for 4-6 months, the bronze on 4-stage compressors work for about 4 years without replacement, no one heard anything about the failure of the mount. The bearing cover is almost an eternal detail. The Proton turbo pump runs on a power of 10 minutes. If there is no backup pump and automatic switching to the reserve, then this project must be closed and all driven into the neck, and workers, and unfortunate designers.
  39. oxotnuk86
    oxotnuk86 29 May 2014 21: 08
    +1
    Quote: silberwolf88
    Sabotage is very possible ... Protons do not work too selectively.

    I agree. When the USSR made products with the acceptance of military representatives or the Maritime Register, these just do animals. To commission one building, four were launched; 1 kg of the product was accompanied by 3 kg of documents. Certificates for the material, for each operating performer and the mark of OTK. All those admitted to work must be certified and the lists agreed with the acceptance. Where is all this?
    1. Metal bro
      Metal bro 29 May 2014 23: 12
      -1
      In the USSR, no less
  40. Barmalej
    Barmalej 29 May 2014 22: 41
    0
    The union is a ballistic missile, an honorary mission is laid on the ground and the union flies from and to without interference! A proton carrier rocket-flight program can creep in and change both on the ground and during the flight! Most importantly, control codes for allegedly nuclear safety programs have been given under Yeltsin, the Americans, and if it’s not profitable for them to carry a proton, they banged it, because Russia is currently a colony. Rogozin needed to spray his saliva on the 16th and we won’t sell rd180, they turned off the GPS, stopped working on the ISS, here He turned on the United States and they significantly beat us!
  41. Captain45
    Captain45 29 May 2014 22: 54
    -4
    Quote: rereture
    In the meantime, you vegetables will be indignant on the Internet, and nothing will happen. Where the pancake is a dialogue between people and power? Why are we indignant on the Internet, and not on the street? Why are there no rallies about the landing of Serdyukov? No mints to support a clean proton accident investigation

    Pi..t-it certainly doesn’t turn over the bags. And I will tell you so, my personal opinion, I would now in the present situation generally prohibit any rallies and gatherings, and where I would gather without fail with riot police and sticks, I would disperse with sticks. And I don’t give a damn. What will the barracks, ssaks and Öland with merkels say? Because now we have a situation in Russia like in May 1941. Comrade Stalin is still khayut, they haven’t foreseen. So now we have to provide for demagogues, shit-democrats, a club on the head to shut up. Otherwise, we will not see good luck!
    1. Erg
      Erg 30 May 2014 01: 28
      0
      Looks tired of you. Cons do not scare? hi
    2. rereture
      rereture 30 May 2014 01: 46
      0
      “When the Nazis came for the communists, I was silent, I'm not a communist.
      Then they came for the Social Democrats, I was silent, but I am not a Social Democrat.
      Then they came for union leaders, I was silent, I'm not a union member.
      Then they came for the Jews, I was silent, I'm not a Jew.
      And then they came for me, and there was no one who could protest. ”

      "Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Kommunist.
      Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
      Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen, ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
      Als sie die Juden holten, habe ich nicht protestiert; ich war ja kein jude.
      "Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte."

      Martin Friedrich Gustav Emile Nyömler
  42. scorpiosys
    scorpiosys 30 May 2014 00: 27
    +1
    Companions and carriers are not allowed to insure Merikozam. Probably by chance ...
  43. Weniamin
    Weniamin 30 May 2014 04: 52
    0
    Sabotage! Curvature, trash and sloppiness.