Military Review

The fire-breathing Chinese dragon moves underground ...

35
The fire-breathing Chinese dragon moves underground ...
Chinese nuclear arsenal. 250 or 3500?


The forum of the Chinese portal china-defense.com discusses the article that was published on 22 in April on the National Interest website of America under the authorship of experts Andrew S. Erickson and Michael S. Chase, where It gives some analysis of the current state of Chinese strategic and non-strategic rocket forces.

In particular, the article says that China has become the first country in the world that has anti-ship ballistic missiles (PCBR) in service and the second country after Russia that has mobile ICBMs.

By December 2012, the number of operational-tactical BRs amounted to 1100 units, most of them located opposite the coast of Taiwan. The PLA Air Force adopted the KR DH-10 / CJ-10 with a range of 2000 km. The MRF DF-21C and DF-21D have a range of 1750 and 1500 km, respectively. The total number of nuclear warheads is 250-400 units.

It is also reported that the length of underground tunnels, where the infrastructure of the rocket troops (PLA Second Artillery Corps - ICBM, BRSD and OTR) was created in China is 5000 km (data from 2009 of the year, this network calls the “Great Underground China - Underground Great Wall). The presence of such an extensive network of tunnels, without any inspection by other states, does not accurately determine the size of the Chinese nuclear arsenal. The total number of nuclear warheads can reach 3500 units.

Originator:
http://nationalinterest.org/article/china-goes-ballistic-10309?page=3
35 comments
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  1. il2.chewie
    il2.chewie April 29 2014 06: 40
    +6
    Well done younger brother! Although now calling China "little brother" is somehow not quite right. It develops very quickly.
    Americans are probably fighting in impotent rage.
    China now, without any missiles, can easily destroy the United States economically
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim April 29 2014 06: 44
      +15
      Quote: il2.chewie
      Very fast developing

      Therefore, he needs an eye and an eye! He is now soft and fluffy a little grow up then it is not yet known what will become!
      1. il2.chewie
        il2.chewie April 29 2014 06: 59
        +4
        I would say otherwise, it is not they that are developing rapidly, it is our pace that has decreased.
        The Chinese have still copied us, but soon they can go ahead
        1. platitsyn70
          platitsyn70 April 29 2014 07: 26
          +2
          I would say otherwise, it is not they that are developing rapidly, it is our pace that has decreased.
          The Chinese have still copied us, but soon they can go ahead
          Russian people think outside the box, the Chinese stupidly copy, and high-tech enterprises in the military-industrial complex are not yet available to China.
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet April 29 2014 07: 38
            +3
            Quote: platitsyn70
            High-tech enterprises in the military-industrial complex are not yet available to China.

            They fly into space, have nuclear weapons, advanced electronics and supercomputers, own-built aviation and navy - where does all this come from, if, according to your statement, "high-tech enterprises in the military-industrial complex are not yet available to China." ???
        2. 1812 1945
          1812 1945 April 29 2014 08: 14
          +1
          Quote: il2.chewie
          I would say otherwise, it is not they that are developing rapidly, it is our pace that has decreased.
          The Chinese have still copied us, but soon they can go ahead
          The "Eastern" gift of hiding one's feelings, intentions and abilities can play a cruel joke not only with enemies ...
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich April 29 2014 07: 00
        +7
        Quote: tronin.maxim

        Therefore, he needs an eye and an eye.
        yes "STILET" .... urgently needed "STILET" ... BAM-built, BZHRK-destroyed ... this is the logic ... sad
        1. rasputin17
          rasputin17 April 29 2014 07: 28
          0
          Quote: Andrew Y.
          Quote: tronin.maxim

          Therefore, he needs an eye and an eye.
          yes "STILET" .... urgently needed "STILET" ... BAM-built, BZHRK-destroyed ... this is the logic ... sad

          Don’t worry you like that !!! A new letter train with the Kaliningrad-Vladivostok flight will soon enter combat duty !!!
          1. jagdpanzer
            jagdpanzer April 29 2014 20: 46
            0
            What a fright? Want to say the whole branch is strengthened? It’s not just the composition for you, it’s necessary to strengthen the entire roadbed, the USSR has mastered a little, but now it will not be pulled.
    2. Alez
      Alez April 29 2014 07: 53
      +1
      No matter how we are destroyed. America itself can be driven far away, and we are close by on a large territory with large raw material reserves.
      1. vazat
        vazat 6 May 2014 19: 05
        0
        And with large reserves of raw materials, and with the remaining unofficial claims of China to the Far Eastern lands of Russia. I personally saw the map of "Temporarily Lost Territories of Great China" (Hebei province, Chengde city), on which part of our land up to Lake Baikal is considered Chinese. Now this is not a problem; in the long term, yes. As long as we sell gas to the Chinese at clearly reduced prices ($ 100, for comparison to the Ukrainians - for $ 450) and they will have contradictions with the United States and its allies in the region, they will be our partners, and then - guess yourself. X
    3. Russophile
      Russophile April 29 2014 08: 19
      +1
      The "younger brother" has no common borders with her, no territorial claims to her. So I would delay praising the china
    4. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat April 29 2014 14: 39
      0
      Quote: il2.chewie
      Well done younger brother! Although now calling China "little brother" is somehow not quite right. It develops very quickly.
      Americans are probably fighting in impotent rage.



  2. Same lech
    Same lech April 29 2014 06: 41
    +7
    The presence of such an extensive network of tunnels without any possibility of inspection by other states does not accurately determine the volume of the Chinese nuclear arsenal.


    I propose, as a sanction to the United States, to limit US inspections of our nuclear military facilities (START-3 treaty).
    Let them be tormented by the idea that a new one has appeared as a surprise for the US military security.
    The Chinese fellows do not go on about the United States .... strictly follow heh heh precepts of the great MAO.
  3. EvgenSuslov
    EvgenSuslov April 29 2014 06: 42
    +1
    Beauties. Do not let put a rocket on the ground, put it under)))
  4. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov April 29 2014 06: 45
    +3
    Very vulnerable thing.
    A way to fill up - there it will remain.
    1. igor_m_p
      igor_m_p April 29 2014 07: 00
      +1
      Yes, I just wanted to write about it. Mobile systems in this regard are much less vulnerable. BZHRK - almost an ideal option in terms of disguise, although dependent on communications.
      In the Chinese version, to reduce risks, it makes sense to make "blind" exits - the tunnel reaches almost to the surface in some slope, behind which there is or is artificially prepared a fairly flat surface. If necessary, unselected soil is knocked out by a directional explosion, a pair of engineering tanks are launched first in order to move large debris ...
    2. Delink
      Delink April 29 2014 07: 00
      +1
      Although she is vulnerable on the one hand. But you cannot help but say that rockets can appear anywhere at any time. How and in which direction the rails are laid.
    3. StolzSS
      StolzSS April 29 2014 07: 08
      +3
      I disagree. in order to avoid such a puncture, tunnel branches are provided in which, if necessary, directional explosions exit the tunnels. Add to this the number of personnel and your missiles from the tunnels will fly towards the enemy within a day after the attack. So that the mattress covers are right, because here you can start a fight if you think and understand that the cross-eyed just do not bend. For there are many more of them than us, but the enemy has not broken us, and it is clear that the cross-eyed study our experience intently and carefully. So that mattress covers can wholesale diapers for kirdyk they come from the east ....
      1. igor_m_p
        igor_m_p April 29 2014 07: 52
        0
        Yes, I already wrote about this option. But this method of basing has another significant drawback compared to mine, sea and land mobile. BZHRK, a mobile installation, a submarine are capable of giving a salvo almost immediately after receiving a command - you just need to determine the coordinates on the ground and select a target from the list. A silo-based ICBM is able to respond even faster - everything has already been calculated and loaded into the brain, only the lid of the mine can be opened.
        But with the Chinese system, you still need time to pull the complex to the exit to the surface, and possibly also to clear the site after undermining the jumper. So the efficiency is lost.
  5. lexx2038
    lexx2038 April 29 2014 06: 46
    +2
    We need to closely monitor our partner, judging by their Chinese ambition cards, they have very pretentious ambitions, pump up muscles, and try to make their dreams come true. We say we're just starting to grow (much more)
  6. Strashila
    Strashila April 29 2014 06: 48
    +4
    The Chinese comrades are fully adopting the Soviet experience.
    If you believe the site http://blackseafleet-21.com/news/21-11-2013_protivokorabelnye-ballisticheskie-ra
    kety-dalnego-dejstvija
    that
    Rocket R-27K has passed a full cycle of design and experimental testing; working and operational documentation was developed. From a ground stand at the State Central Test Site in Kapustin Yar, 20 launches were conducted, of which 16 was conducted with positive results.
    A diesel-electric submarine of Project 27 was re-equipped for the R-605K missile on Project 629. The missile launches from the submarine were preceded by throw tests of the 4K18 rocket mock-ups on the PSD-5 submersible stand specially created according to the design documentation of the Volna TsPB.
    The first launch of the 4K18 rocket from a submarine in Severodvinsk was carried out in December 1972, in November 1973, flight tests were completed with a two-missile salvo. In total, 11 missiles were launched from the boat, including 10 launches - successful. At the last launch, a direct hit (!!!) of the combat unit in the target ship was ensured.
    The peculiarity of these tests was that a barge with a working radar station was installed on the battlefield, which simulated a large target and emitted a missile. The technical leader of the tests was Deputy Chief Designer Sh. I. Boksar.
    By the Government Decree, work on the D-5 complex with the 4K18 rocket was completed in September 1975. The submarine of 605 Ave. with 4К18 missiles was in trial operation until 1982, according to other data up to 1981.
    Thus, out of 31 missiles launched, 26 missiles hit the conditional target - an unprecedented success for the missile. 4Q18 was a fundamentally new missile, no one had done anything like this before, and these results perfectly characterize the high technological level of Soviet rocket science. The success is also largely due to the fact that 4K18 entered the tests 4 years later than 4Q10.
  7. Same lech
    Same lech April 29 2014 06: 48
    +1
    A way to fill up - there will remain

    Exits can be disguised as public toilets ... and even more so they are probably guarded by anti-sabotage groups and air defense systems ... TRY TO CHOOSE ... the Chinese will arrange for the intruder an exotic death from thousands of cuts.
  8. pensioner
    pensioner April 29 2014 06: 59
    +1
    It is also reported that the length of the underground tunnels where the infrastructure of the missile forces has been created (the second PLA artillery corps - ICBMs, infantry and infantry reconnaissance regiments and OTR) in China is 5000 km

    For a nation that has built the Great Wall of 5000 underground tracks, this is so ... a trifle.
  9. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN April 29 2014 07: 10
    +2
    All restless sleeps in Washington. The future of the Pentagon is becoming increasingly foggy! I would not be surprised if suddenly in Oklahoma a failure opens and a Chinese rocket takes off!
  10. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx April 29 2014 07: 10
    -2
    As far as I remember, the American MX was also underground, tunnel-based. Maybe not all launchers were with several tables, but such information passed, in the middle of 80's. Given that the rocket was stored in a container with an already built mortar launch, it is easier to drag such a pipe and direct it into the sky than to load it onto the launch pad.

    It still seems to me that basing on a submarine is more effective, although more expensive. And it is the lack of nuclear submarines that makes the Chinese dig tunnels. One way or another, but missiles are brought there (in tunnels) from time to time. Calculating the entrance to the tunnel, IMHO, is still easier than the submarine, as you do not mask the entrance. Gouging it is even easier. Well, not one tamahawk, so several.
    By the way, the Americans planned to base the MX, incl. and on trains, this development was brought to the release of an experimental model. So the idea of ​​BZHRK is not our monopoly. The only difference is that we created a serial BZHRK in metal, and the Americans only a test bench. As a result, we destroyed the finished complexes, and the Yankees simply did not begin to build them.
    http://armyman.info/amerikanskaya-mbr-mh.html
    1. I read the news
      I read the news April 29 2014 10: 16
      0
      Quote: Al_lexx
      rockets there (in tunnels) from time to time are brought / taken away. Calculating the entrance to the tunnel, IMHO, is still easier than the submarine


      This loading / unloading tunnel can be determined. If and when missiles are not driven from factories through tunnels.

      And where are the combat exits of the tunnels? in Mongolia, Pakistan or Korea?
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx April 30 2014 01: 30
        0
        Quote: I readNews
        Quote: Al_lexx
        rockets there (in tunnels) from time to time are brought / taken away. Calculating the entrance to the tunnel, IMHO, is still easier than the submarine


        This loading / unloading tunnel can be determined. If and when missiles are not driven from factories through tunnels.

        And where are the combat exits of the tunnels? in Mongolia, Pakistan or Korea?

        In America, in Montana. wink
    2. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx April 30 2014 01: 29
      0
      No, I understand when plus. Everything is simple here, the person agrees and / or supports the same point of view. But minus without comment, especially if it is not just a phrase, but a reasoned enough opinion, it seems to me somewhat indecent and simply not honest.
  11. Moore
    Moore April 29 2014 07: 29
    +1
    Yes, MX where they just did not plan to seal - even on barges. The Americans simply did not pull the tunnels within their means, or, as with the BZHRK, did not intend to build them.
    Therefore, Chinese underground hobbies should not be taken as the ultimate truth - yes, there are repositories. The possibility of maneuvering for thousands of kilometers - oh, hardly ....
    1. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx April 30 2014 01: 33
      0
      Quote: Moore
      Yes, MX where they just did not plan to seal - even on barges. The Americans simply did not pull the tunnels within their means, or, as with the BZHRK, did not intend to build them.
      Therefore, Chinese underground hobbies should not be taken as the ultimate truth - yes, there are repositories. The possibility of maneuvering for thousands of kilometers - oh, hardly ....

      No, they kind of even built something.
      For the money? The nuclear submarine in construction is several times more expensive, and even less so. But it is more effective. So it’s definitely not about the money.
      But that’s why they did not start building the BZHRK, especially since there was a signal instance, I don’t know this. Probably because we broke our own, and they still have more submarines. Well, apparently there was a geographical component. In the sense that our railway length is much higher than that of the Americans, and most of it passes through Siberia, where it is quite simple to create a disguised branch for basing and maintenance. And America is half the steppe / desert, and the area is almost two times less, and the population density (outside cities) is three times higher.
  12. The Art of War
    The Art of War April 29 2014 07: 32
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qS_CTIecRw
  13. bronik
    bronik April 29 2014 07: 40
    +2
    Well, I don’t believe the Chinese, they only took Stalin seriously and respected. They really have a treacherous eastern mentality.
    1. Alez
      Alez April 29 2014 07: 55
      0
      I agree, China is the Vaska cat, which quietly listens and eats the whole world.
  14. generation.p
    generation.p April 29 2014 07: 52
    0
    Can I fill up the entrances? So you need to hit first!
  15. Zelen
    Zelen April 29 2014 07: 54
    +1
    Well done Chinese, we need to take an example from them, working people.
  16. Balaganov
    Balaganov April 29 2014 07: 57
    0
    Does South Africa have warheads?
  17. Ural guys
    Ural guys April 29 2014 07: 59
    +1
    America managed to quarrel at the same time with two great powers: Russia and China.
    Against the background of Obama's ongoing tour of the Pacific coast, these actions will only contribute to further escalation of the conflict.
  18. sv68
    sv68 April 29 2014 08: 02
    +1
    China is quietly gliding in the east without hastening events, gaining strength, if only they knew that they had enough power, then a new revision of the world order would begin
  19. Gagarin
    Gagarin April 29 2014 08: 10
    +1
    In this way, China will soon build tunnels straight to the borders of any likely enemy.
    The nuclear charge will be stupid on rails to deliver to the target!)))
  20. Boudallino
    Boudallino April 29 2014 08: 23
    +1
    China has a huge army, and although it has no real combat experience, it cannot be underestimated stop
  21. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz April 29 2014 13: 01
    0
    If nothing is clear, how was the figure of 3500 warheads born? why not 475? or 6740?
  22. bugs
    bugs April 29 2014 16: 14
    0
    Quote: VNP1958PVN
    All restless sleeps in Washington. The future of the Pentagon is becoming increasingly foggy! I would not be surprised if suddenly in Oklahoma a failure opens and a Chinese rocket takes off!

    If only Yellowstone would not soon take off. It will not seem to anyone.
  23. DanSabaka
    DanSabaka April 29 2014 17: 02
    0
    It is not yet known where these missiles will be sent in the future. China had and will have interests north of the Amur River.