The Director General of the Russia Today International Agency, the author and presenter of the Vesti Nedeli program, became the only journalist in the world who was subject to political sanctions. The European Union has included a well-known TV host on the list of Russians in respect of whom a ban is imposed on entry into the EU, as well as ownership of real estate and accounts. In defense of the journalist Dmitry Kiselev, who fell under the sanctions of the European Union, they joined one of the leading organizations for the rights of journalists - the World Press Freedom Committee. However, as Dmitry Kiselev himself told Izvestia, the imposition of sanctions against him is a restriction on the freedom of speech not of one journalist, but of all world journalism. In modern stories, explains the head of the MIA “Russia Today”, Russia and the West have changed their roles, now our country has become the main defender of democratic principles and freedom of speech.
- You are the only journalist who is subject to sanctions. You can say that you are Yuri Gagarin of modern journalism. Did you expect this?
- It concerns all journalists. For the first time internationally imposed sanctions on me against a journalist. I am only a journalist X. Moreover, the initiator of the sanctions was Europe, which speaks of a frank disregard of EU officials for the value of freedom of speech. It creates a very unpleasant dangerous precedent - in fact, a betrayal of European values. If the precedent is legalized, if the journalistic community - both European, and American, and any other country - does not respond to this and does not give an assessment, this means that journalists consider this to be legitimate. This is a cardinal civilization turn - we do not need freedom of speech and, henceforth, is not a value. Moreover, the position of the European Union is supported not only by the decision of the European bureaucracy, but also by the decision of the Norwegian Storting.
- Even Norway, which is close to you, considering that you finished the department of Scandinavian philologists, supported the sanctions ..
- Yes, in the Leningrad State University. 10 for years was broadcasting in Norwegian at the microphone of Moscow radio. A person who is a 100% friend of Norway is subject to Norwegian sanctions, the purpose of which is to restrict freedom of speech. Shine! I believe that so far it is not very conscious, but in fact it is a question of a civilizational turn. I am accused of being a propagandist, a propagandist. But propaganda from the Greek - the dissemination of information, ideas, thoughts, ideological positions. In an interesting way, the West uses this word as a curse ... But propaganda is not a certified category, a certified category in international law, in the Constitutions of all countries freedom of speech. In fact, this sanction is formalized, state, interstate, supranational, bureaucratic, which is legal, in the sense of a legally defined, and not legitimate. It is directed against freedom of speech.
- Still, the strange wording of the European Union, you as a citizen of Russia are not allowed to enter, but as a journalist it is possible to visit EU countries ...
- I do not know how it is. Nowhere is this officially announced. If we proceed from the fact that I can only travel to Europe on a business trip, this means that Europe is working backwards, reversing. Because I realized that sanctions limit the professional activities of a journalist, which is crazy. Europe sensed that it was frozen in an uncomfortable position, in an awkward position, that it would be necessary to somehow explain and motivate its own decision. But if you make the assumption that I can still go there professionally on a business trip, and they accuse me of doing professional propaganda, then Europe finds itself in a very funny paradox: I can do propaganda professionally - come and do it, but here you can not rest. Promote without rest! Well, not schizophrenia?
- If the logical chain here is clearly broken, then what is the point of the sanctions in your opinion?
- I do not understand the meaning of what is happening. This is ridiculous, just absurd. Sanctions do not affect me as a person. Their purpose is to change my behavior. My property and accounts will be arrested, but I don’t have them in the West. These sanctions are not against my freedom of speech, but against the freedom of speech in general. I am here as a symbol or, more precisely, a special case.
- The introduction of sanctions has now become a certain trend, with the US or the EU constantly initiating restrictions. You are the only journalist you choose. Doesn't that bother you?
- This is a strange story. They say I'm the main promoter. Either this is nonsense, or this ignorance of reality.
- If the US and the EU do not know the realities, but the list includes the strongest statesmen, maybe someone advised them to nominate them, including yours?
- I even know who. There Sergey Parkhomenko and Alexey Navalny made lists. They do not hide it. But if Europe relies on the opinions of people supported by the endangered minority in Russia, then, of course, it is difficult to make sensible, sensible decisions in this world, especially in relation to Russia. There are a lot of questions in the world that are difficult to resolve without Russia's participation, including issues of war and peace in different regions. This behavior of the West borders on schizophrenia. Here we return to it. Schizophrenia is a splitting of consciousness, life in parallel worlds based on minor signs, minor factors. When we rely on what is insignificant, but turn it into significant, when we proceed from the opinion of socially insignificant people, cultivating it, even hypertrophying, we enter the kingdom of curved mirrors. In my opinion, the great powers that make up the backbone of the European Union cannot afford this, for greatness also implies a corresponding level of responsibility. Otherwise, they end up in stupid situations, harming ultimately their citizens. After all, what after the sanctions against the journalist turns freedom of speech in the European countries themselves? Do they legalize taboo topics and bans on journalistic activities? If there is a position in relation to a foreign journalist, then why not extend the standard laid down in this decision within the EU?
- Working in the state-run media, the journalist automatically receives the title of "propagandist." The rating of your program is high, you are not indifferent to it. Are you the main promoter?
- Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia, appointed me by his decree from December 9 as the head of the new international news agency Russia Today. Sanctions caught me and our agency during the period of reorganization, when "Russia Today" still did not show itself in the world in terms of "propaganda." By that time, we didn’t come out with any new brand, and our main product - an informational tape in English, French and Spanish - appeared only on April 1, much later than the date of the announcement of sanctions.
But, perhaps, sanctions - a preventive measure? So as not to promote? But after all, all Western news agencies are literally imposing their point of view. For example, Reuters or Associated Press. They are really propaganda - they form the dominant agenda, they talk about what to think, in what sequence and how to think. They interpret history, today, the future, they lay down a system of values, ideological positions, political accents.
- In your agency, most likely, a certain political dominant will also be laid?
- Of course, but we have not had time yet. This is done by all agencies, and each has its own manager, who conducts legal professional activities. Then, perhaps, against them, too, impose sanctions? After all, they are also engaged in propaganda ... Information in the modern world, its selection, analysis, interpretation, processing, its formats from social networks to feature films are the forcing of a system of values, ideas about good and evil, production, if you like, attitudes to events . It turns out that EU countries can have agencies, and Moscow is by no means impossible. Russia, of course, wants to compete in the field of international information, since information wars have become the practice of modern life and the main type of warfare. Already after the information victory bombers fly. For example, in Syria, the Americans lost the war, and nothing happened. With the Crimea lost the information war, and nothing happened. There used to be artillery preparation before the attack - now informational.
- It turns out that the sanctions against you were not imposed because of the agency being created?
- I am absolutely sure that the News of the Week program is certainly an annoying factor - a noticeable information product, a weekly analytical information program with an author’s view on events that is popular, well-known, and loved (this is confirmed by FOM research data from analytical programs on various TV channels at the end of last season. We are in first place in most positions). “News of the Week” became influential in Russia and promote, I’m not afraid of this word, healthy values, healthy patriotism. I am sure that the sanctions imposed because of the "News of the week."
Dmitry Kiselev: "Sometimes I cling" to Moscow bikers "
- In other countries there are also analytical programs. But they do not apply sanctions to their authors. Maybe some specific phrase you said?
- Every observer is in any way noticeable - as a rule, these are people of advanced age, like me (60 will be with me soon), with experience and a great background, with a big journalistic history like mine. So, such professionals have the right to express their opinions in such TV programs and do it. At the same time, society listens to them, because people have been watching such a person for many years, watching his evolution, forming their stable attitude towards him. Finally, trust. Moreover, trust in every such case is a sociologically measured social characteristic. The higher the level of trust - the more opportunities the browser has, but also more responsibility. In any case, there are only a few dozen such people - those who are in the great world powers run such programs. They are piece. And all with more or less success are doing the same thing - the presentation of information and interpretations. At the same time always formulating national interests. So - one can, while others can not? So believe in the European Union?
- So, it’s possible, but it’s impossible for strangers. Maybe they caught the phrase about gays - “burn or bury the hearts” of gays who died in an accident?
- This is a complete betrayal of freedom of speech. As for gay men, I have a clear position here. Gay culture has the right to exist in Russia, and it exists de facto. But this culture is a minority, and it will remain. Because the culture of the minority should not be imposed on the majority, especially by force, propagandists. I do not think that nontraditional sexual orientation is a disease. I don’t even think that it goes beyond the physiological norm, but I’m convinced that it goes beyond the social norm. Every country has the right to a social norm. We have a social norm - a family. The Russian state is obliged to maintain our social norm also because it is vital for it. The family is born children. And we have a demographic crisis. To support the spread of gay culture in our country is tantamount to self-destruction. We are offered this. But we are not obliged to agree?
- Do you think that we impose it?
- Yes, they impose on us what is alien to us. Examples of mass. For example, my phrase about burning gay hearts is used as a hostile meme. Attackers can continue to do this. I do not give up my words and explain their meaning again. You need to understand their context. It was a conscious provocation. I said this in a controlled fuse especially for sowing a polemic program, where the conflict of opinions with elements of the show was dramatic. Then the introduction of fines for the promotion of non-traditional relations among adolescents, in fact, for corruption, was discussed. We must understand that gays do not reproduce themselves, they are recruited into their ranks. Gay parades - the action of luring to yourself. All in bright feathers and all laugh, they say, we have a great. The reality of the gay community is different. Studies show that gay's average life expectancy is significantly lower. According to statistics in their relationship more violence. They often seek psychological help. They often suicides. The gay community is a recognized risk zone for hepatitis and AIDS. Since modern methods do not allow 100% to determine the absence of the causative agent of AIDS in the blood and donor organs, in the United States and Canada, the European Union countries donating to gays is prohibited. Somewhere, like in the USA, from 1977 onwards and for life. Somewhere accepted quarantine since the last homosexual contact. The motivation can be read on the official website of such a venerable organization as the FDA. This is the American Rospotrebnadzor.
After these words, Dmitry Kiselev pulled out Sigmund Freud's volume “Sexual Life”. Opening the book on the laid page, he ran his finger along the underlined line - “The final decision regarding the choice of sexual behavior comes only after puberty.”
- The ban on the promotion of homosexuality among minors is based on this phrase, since they still have an unstable identity. I do not deny that for some homosexual orientation is predetermined. It's about saving others.
- Is it necessary in Russia to prohibit members of sexual minorities to be donors?
- In Russia, gay donation is not prohibited. Why not do as in the States? After all, the bodies of gays in the case of, for example, car accidents are cremated or buried, simultaneously burning or burying, and seemingly quite healthy hearts. As material for the extension of someone's life, they are not considered. Yes, dates have been introduced in different countries since the last homosexual contact. But a homosexual can have up to 1,5 thousands of partners during his lifetime, 500 doesn't surprise anyone. These are the data of authoritative American and Western European studies. This is a different way of life, a different rhythm. So de facto gay donation is prohibited. In our country, the Russian state takes responsibility for the likelihood of contracting AIDS through blood transfusion and blood donation. The risk is about the same as dying in a plane crash. I do not think this is right. Better - as in countries that have already investigated the problem deeper than we. And there the gay hearts are turned into ashes unsuitable for the continuation of one's life. I am for it. And not for the way they imagine that I urge you to cut out hearts from living people and burn them.
- You have familiar gays. What is your relationship with them?
- I have gay colleagues. For the most part, they are calm and quiet people who want to stay in the shade. They do not stick their orientation. I have never come across a hostile attitude towards me personally from gay people. Yes, and I'm not homophobic. The West simply does not like Russia, which is in an uptrend. That's where the core is. We are in an uptrend, even if the economy is not as convincing as we would like. But the economy is cyclical. And the recession is always followed by a rise. If there is such a television program that supports the uptrend of Russia, helps to get rid of the traumas of the 20th century, then the West imposes sanctions on its author. Yes, they say that Kiselev is a homophobe, an anti-Semite, calls for burning America, etc. Somehow not very elegant.
- So who, in your opinion, is now lowering the iron curtain? Which side?
- We swapped roles. Russia is for freedom of speech, but the West is no longer. There was a tectonic shift, civilization. In Russia, you can say anything, there are different television channels, the Internet is not blocked, radio stations and newspapers in any range. There is no prohibited literary work. Print anything. Only that which is expressly prohibited by the Constitution cannot be. At the same time, the Russian man retains a huge range - the abyss below and the abyss above. Some even made the word “patriotism” abusive. Ksenia Larina, from Ekho Moskvy, for example, says that she’s “sick of worms and cherry bones” from patriotism. And no one limits it. Of course, Xenia, speak further. The EU, imposing sanctions on some and encouraging others, for example, by accepting Tolokonnikov and Alekhin in the European Parliament, who also demand an expansion of the sanctions list, shows who Europe encourages and does not encourage. Blasphemous dancing in the cathedral in Russia for Tolokonnikova and Alekhina is excellent and necessary, and freedom of speech for journalist Dmitry Kiselyov personally, for the main information and analytical program and, moreover, beloved by the people, is bad and impossible. This “sick of worms” is excellent, and our correspondents and reporters, who see what is happening in Kiev and talk about Ukrainian fascism, are bad. An amazing value construct is obtained. However, she is good for Russia. We clearly see who and for what.
- The Russian Foreign Ministry said it was not going to ban entry for Western journalists. That is, we do not respond mirror.
- Naturally, Russia is morally higher. We have already passed the times when freedom of speech was violated in the USSR. For example, in the Stalin period. We passed the times of the Iron Curtain. Now, oddly enough, changing roles. That is, Russia is just a torch of free speech. Someone might laugh like Ksenia Larina, but she will do it freely on the air, without fear of sanctions from either Russia or the European Union. Because in our broadcast we can use and even abuse freedom of speech without any restrictions, even acting against the state and the fatherland. Therefore, the EU sanctions really work not against me or someone in Russia, but against European values in Europe itself. The European Union thus proclaims that freedom of speech for it is no longer a value for it. That's what this is about.
- You were going to Europe soon?
- After the declaration of the introduction of sanctions against me, the Japanese called me and say: come to us. Nicely. But we had a trip to Northern Norway by car from Murmansk with our children. We rented a fishing lodge in the northernmost Viking village of Giesver with a population of just 150 people to show the setting sun, bird markets, northern fishing and sea lions. Already prepaid sent. But owner Björn Jensen and his beautiful family are now in a difficult position. Sanctions after all, it turns out, imposed on him. Because this fishing hut may not be removed, as they ask her to rent in advance, almost a year. Maybe, of course, someone will come there, but additional efforts are guaranteed. The story, in my opinion, is absolutely absurd. It is a pity that Norway will not show itself to my children - but Japan will show itself.
- The United States, by the way, did not impose sanctions on you. What does it mean?
- Americans have not entered. They slipped the case to the Europeans, putting them in an awkward position. This is among the steps to the destruction of Europe. The same as the wiretapping Angela Merkel, industrial espionage ... For America, after all, Europe is a competitor. Nobody hides this.
- What do you think journalism is propaganda or not? Some people like to say that journalism is dead.
- Journalism is more than a profession. This is a whole environment in society. It is a medium for the circulation of information, ideas, values, ideas of good and evil, and it cannot die. Especially professional journalism. Do not confuse bloggers who, without moving off the chair and on the “clave,” click on something, with a professional journalist. A professional journalist acts within the framework of accepted ethical norms; he does not tell a lie, he will check the facts. Errors? There may be errors. It is important how you treat them. For example, in the “News of the Week” program from December 8, I myself confused the building of the Presidential Administration of Ukraine with the building of the Government of Ukraine. It turned out that the first violence from the militants with smashed helmets and blood was during the storming of the administration, and in fact it was November 26 during the storming of the Government House. Now, winding back, we understand that it was the “Right Sector” wielding (shows trophies - the “Golden Eagle” helmet, split from the blow). Already in the next 15 program in December, I myself, without any coercion, apologized for the confusion and, restoring the exact course of events, I added that the logic by which the first violence in Kiev was not from the “Berkut” side persists. So everyone can make mistakes. Barack Obama last week at the US-EU summit in Brussels, said that Kosovo was separated after the referendum. In reality, there has never been a referendum on independence for Kosovo. I did not hear Obama apologize ... This is about how you feel about your mistakes, either you acknowledge them or not. That is why professional editors, professional media are trusted more. Their role will increase. After all the traumas of the 20th century, repressions, the collapse of the country, wars, terror that we experienced, the destruction of the Church, the catastrophic extermination of our people, a certain atmosphere of unbelief appeared - a lack of values. They need to revive. Value vacuum is called anomie. For a person, this condition is considered pre-suicidal. We also have a public anomie, from which we are just starting to creep out. We are told: "Do not crawl out ..."
- In Ukraine now, judging by your words, is anomia?
- Yes. Or the vacuum is filled with something poisonous. The mission of a journalist is to produce healthy values. This can be done by the Church, family, education, but on professional journalism is a huge responsibility. After all, professional editorial is always a goal. State media is required to have a constructive goal, not a destructive one. Therefore, the profession of a journalist is in demand - but it is normal journalism, creative, meaningful, where subversive activities in relation to their society is not a sport.
- Can we conclude from what you said that, for example, Dozhd TV channel is non-professional journalism?
- I see. Yes, they do not seem to position themselves. What kind of journalism is there? What are you speaking about? This is not a hospital. This is a game in the hospital. Their activity is frankly biased, valuable destructive. I am not in favor of closing the "Rain". There must be niches for different people. Everyone is entitled to it. But we do not lose the information field. 88% get news from central tv channels. They, by the way, are usually associated with the state. For example, Izvestiya is a non-governmental newspaper, but it is associated with it, with normal values that support the state and society and generate more trust than anything else. We do not lose. If we lost the information war, we would not have a state. There would be no social peace. We would have happened that in Ukraine. Therefore, we can not lose. And we win the competition honestly.
- Have you already built the strategy of “Russia today”? The Kremlin also collaborated with the American PR-company Ketchum. In your opinion, is it acceptable that Western specialists were responsible for the propaganda of Russia?
- I do not know if there is a contract now or not. But let's say there is. Firstly, I cannot evaluate the effectiveness of the contract, but we will assume that it is effective. The world is global and Russia should not self-isolate. Are we not for autarky? Many foreign journalists work on Russian channels. They understand that the dominance of the so-called Anglo-Saxon point of view in the information field is detrimental for their countries. There will be openly totalitarian states, if there is no counterbalance in the face of Russia, which represents an alternative point of view.
I have colleagues who have worked for 25 for years on the BBC, now they are asking for our job and they say they can’t endure all this anti-Russian nonsense, hatred, censorship. They call me from Paris and say that in France there is a whole stop-list for people who cannot be allowed on TV, although they used to appear on the screens often, were cultural dominants in France.
“Can you show them?”
- Of course. And Western journalists honestly confess to me: they have real censorship. So it is normal when people want to work with Russia - they see in it a certain alternative, balance and parity, not only nuclear, but also informational. Thus, they defend their freedom. A complete reliance on their strength, isolation is not very effective. And Russia does not seek this. We are an open country. Russia, for example, declares that we are ready to cancel visas with the European Union at least tomorrow, but the EU is not ready for this. We swapped roles. Previously, in the Soviet Union there were exit visas - then the USSR protected itself, and now we understand that we live in the most beautiful country in the world.
- And all other countries envy us?
- Not without it! Yes, we have a lot of ulcers, problems, we do not hide - we show them. But even in these conditions, even in conditions of a downturn in the economy, we still generally are on an uptrend.
- In the agency of employees, will you select by individual criteria, or will everyone be able to work for you?
- All unwilling wishing have already quit. I have already said that if someone is going to engage in subversion, then this is not part of my plans.
- There is an opinion that the former chief editor of RIA Novosti, Svetlana Mironyuk, paid for excessive liberalism.
- We are not discussing Svetlana Mironyuk, but our liberalism. So, there is liberalism, and there is subversion. Western liberals do not oppose their fatherland, homeland, people. But if I read in the newspaper, conditionally Moscow News, such a headline: “They didn’t know what they were fighting for.” And this is about the soldiers of the Russian army in the first Chechen war. This is what I call subversion! Even if the soldier said that he did not know what he was fighting for, this is evidence of his psychological trauma, manifestations of the so-called post-traumatic syndrome. Evidence that our society (and the MN newspaper, in particular) abandoned him. Instead of giving it meaning, it takes the last from him. It was possible to say in the title: “It’s difficult for the heroes now,” and in the article it’s clear that he says he didn’t know what he fought for. I am not in favor of hiding it, I am against it, to scratch it even more and to speculate on this and devalue his real feat, which he accomplished on the battlefield, and not on the Internet, feeling brave. Such soldiers need our support. It was necessary to explain that this is a common post-traumatic story, that a soldier needs psychological help, that relatives should be more attentive, and think about what we can do for them.
- Ksenia Larina, in your opinion, is also not a liberal?
- She does not tolerate another point of view, in particular mine. I tolerate her point of view and do not impose any sanctions on her. And they are Parkhomenko, Navalny, etc. - Do not tolerate, make lists. What are they liberals? They are absolutely totalitarian creatures. Absolutely. I am a liberal because I tolerate them. I say, let's listen to them, look at them. To close anything and no one in any way ... But you don’t have to turn everything upside down. Especially for the state account.
- In 2003, you organized the “Jazz Koktebel” festival. Will he continue to exist?
- Yes, this year it will be 12.
- As far as I know, your companions are from Ukraine themselves? What is the situation with the organization of the festival?
- The Ministry of Culture has already announced its support for the festival. The organizers from Kiev are in a difficult situation, since the Verkhovna Rada passed a law in the first reading, according to which a trip to the Crimea is punishable by criminal law from 3 to 5 years, and if by prior agreement in the group, then more. And doing business, even if not stepping out of his chair in Kiev, in the Crimea also falls under criminal liability. But this is the first reading so far, I don’t know if they will accept it in the second, but in this case my friends will not be able to organize festivals in Koktebel. I organized it for the first 3 years - when I lived in Kiev, then I gave it, retaining the title of founder. This festival has become the largest jazz project in the post-Soviet space. People from all over the world came from Japan, Canada, Hungary, and Norway. A singer who sings with traditional throat singing came from our Tuva - he is popular among jazzmen. They asked him what you think about, when you sing like that, he answered that he recalls his father, who was burning in tank. During the Great Patriotic War.
“Considering that both Russians and Ukrainians fought against fascism, now it’s hard to see what is happening in Kiev ...”
- We won. We are proud. With the negative live those who deprive themselves of this heroic past. They turn the nation into losers. They remember only the famine that they were occupied.
- Many people say: “We are protecting freedom,” but shouldn't a person first of all defend his family and land?
- Of course. When we are asked to abandon the family through non-traditional values, it is in fact the destruction of our country.