"Governor" may stole

98
It is becoming increasingly clear that the non-proliferation regime of rocket technologies is under serious threat. In 1991, Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union a powerful military-industrial complex, including the production of rocket and space technology. State Enterprise "Design Bureau" Yuzhnoye "them. M.K. Yangel in Dnepropetrovsk - a major developer of intercontinental ballistic missiles. The Voyevoda rocket R-36М2 designed here is still in service with the Russian Strategic Missile Forces. Ukrainian specialists carry out architectural supervision, prolong the resource “Voevody” - the most powerful ballistic missile in the world.

Its production has long been discontinued, but the design documentation is still located in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau. Like the documentation for another intercontinental missile - the RT-23 UTTH “Molodets”, intended for the combat railway missile system (BZHRK). Under the START-2 Treaty, the complexes themselves were decommissioned and destroyed.

The entire defense industry of Ukraine is tied to Russian orders. But 29 March and. Director General of the concern "Ukroboronprom" Yuri Tereshchenko announced the termination of the supply of military equipment in the Russian Federation. Again the. Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk told one of the TV channels that it is planned to re-equip the defense industry through cooperation with the West. And only for the time being, they say, “we will have to use other people's samples”

Without Russian orders, Ukrainian defense enterprises are doomed to a speedy bankruptcy. And then there will be foreign buyers, if not already appeared. First of all, it is Israel and China.

Israel overlooked the anti-Semitism of the ultra-right members of the provisional Kiev government and the militants of the Right Sector. Reacting painfully to the manifestations of neo-Nazism in Europe, the Israeli leadership did not pay attention to the beating in Kiev of the head of the Jewish organization Rabbi Cohen and the famous musician Jan Tabachnik, the burning of synagogues and anti-Semitic inscriptions. Apparently, there is a very big interest in Ukraine, in one really existing resource - rocket technologies.

Not seeking to spoil relations with Kiev usurpers and Beijing. The PRC declined to assess the reunification of the Crimea with Russia. She also needs to maintain good relations with Kiev, whoever is in power. And the whole world knows that the Chinese do not spare money for sensitive technologies.

What can the bankruptcy of Ukrainian defense industry enterprises lead to? First, to privatization, to full or partial sale. You can buy a plant or KB with archives. Secondly, the documents can be sold by the employees themselves, first of all the managers. Thirdly, you can sign tempting contracts with leading designers, take them out of the country and restore key documentation. And, fourthly, the Kiev temporary leadership for the sake of a large soft loan from the PRC itself can bring drawings and technologies on a silver platter. In this perspective, Barack Obama is definitely not up to the Crimea. He no longer requires the return of the peninsula to Ukraine. Get, say, Beijing "Satan" and BZHRK, the United States certainly will not be able to count on further world leadership.
98 comments
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  1. +51
    April 4 2014 15: 15
    Sooner or later, but "Voevod" will have to be abandoned. Their shelf life has already been extended more than once ... So, of course, it's a pity, but it is necessary to focus on the products of Russian design bureaus and enterprises ...
    1. +30
      April 4 2014 15: 18
      We are already everywhere moving to YaRS.
      It's not bad too.
      1. jjj
        +4
        April 4 2014 16: 48
        It is unlikely that anyone will be able to reproduce the technique performed on older systems. It is necessary to create an entire industry
        1. 0
          April 5 2014 04: 49
          the Chinese do you think there is no industry
      2. +2
        April 4 2014 17: 52
        Quote: polite people
        We are already everywhere moving to YaRS.

        The other day, and "Sineva", was adopted ...
        1. -2
          April 4 2014 18: 29
          Well, the Bulava was recently adopted
          1. +4
            April 4 2014 19: 55
            Quote: Russ69
            The other day, and "Sineva", was adopted ...

            The other day, it's July 9, 2007. Accepted "Liner" modernized "Sineva"
            Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
            Well, the Bulava was recently adopted

            Don’t share the link? And then all the info that the extreme launch, September 6, 2013, was unsuccessful.
            Incidentally, at the expense of the article, today
            http://topwar.ru/42994-territoriya-ohoty-na-satanu.html
            "Territory of the hunt for" Satan. "The curtailment of cooperation with Russia threatens Ukraine with a leak of missile technologies" practically word for word.
        2. +2
          April 4 2014 20: 18
          And our "PUNISHERS" will ride on the ground

          http://yandex.ru/video/search?text=%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BB%20%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0
          %D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%20%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE&where=all&filmId=biYKRvk68gE
          1. +5
            April 4 2014 20: 29
            Quote: polite people
            And our "PUNISHERS" will ride on the ground

            Will not. Need to be complete fool , to adopt this arsenal
          2. 0
            April 4 2014 20: 43
            This is an experimental prototype.
            1. +1
              April 4 2014 21: 02
              Quote: mirag2
              This is an experimental prototype.

              An article about him was already at VO last year. Look for laziness.
      3. +7
        April 4 2014 18: 29
        Quote: polite people
        We are already everywhere moving to YaRS.
        It's not bad too.


        Not bad. But! But ... the Yankees' old mine, rusty in the form of a Trident got a chance to upgrade to a very decent weapon and these guys are a damn problem. what In my opinion, Israel’s experience in resolving such issues is very useful (it’s just a bullet in the forehead).
        1. +1
          April 4 2014 19: 55
          Quote: SHILO
          old mine, rusty in the form of Trident

          Excuse me, but if "old mine, rusty" - then Minuteman 3, and Trident Voevoda (what kind of love is it to call a sample of technology with a certain lofty name? into the submarine. But this is by the way ...
          From the point of view of the possibility of use in the United States - they do not need it for many reasons, but to China - it is possible, but they will increase the output better
          "DF-5 (CSS-4) is a three-stage ICBM with LPRE running on low-boiling fuel (oxidizer - N2O4, fuel - asymmetric dimethylhydrazine UDMH). The only full-fledged intercontinental ballistic missile in China, in terms of its tactical and technical characteristics, it occupies an intermediate position between the American Titan-2 ICBM and the Soviet SS-18. Placed in traditional silos with an underground launch. The missile was tested at ranges from 7000 to 15000 km. These are probably its minimum and maximum extremes. The ICBM is capable of hitting targets throughout Europe, Russia and North America. "
      4. +6
        April 4 2014 19: 50
        Quote: polite people
        We are already everywhere moving to YaRS.
        It's not bad too.


        UR-100 is an unsurpassed missile. Even today, not a single state has dedicated its parameters even close. In general, there was a big mistake in that it was discontinued and is now being decommissioned.

        If China really gets at least half of the worms from it, we will have to learn Chinese, and English can be added to the list of dead languages.
      5. 0
        April 4 2014 20: 42
        Sorry, but it's too early to be "ubiquitous".
    2. yan
      +3
      April 4 2014 15: 19
      Absolutely right
      1. +10
        April 4 2014 15: 25
        Possess, say, Beijing “Satan” and the BZHRK, the United States will certainly not be able to count on further world leadership.
        why immediately Beijing? ........... by the way, Iran, recently also thawed accounts in the West ......... and why not bribe a good designer? ..... .then half of America will work on sleeping pills belay
        1. +10
          April 4 2014 15: 33
          Quote: strannik595
          why immediately Beijing? ...........

          Dear forum users, please answer a simple question:

          If you are not in a conversation with Sergey (cvp67), then ... why go into the "first comment" ???
          For the pros and ratings? Not tired?

          With correct respect:
          Alex.

          ................

          Sergey, good to see you!
          hi
          Sorry to fit in.
          request
          1. +6
            April 4 2014 15: 43
            Quote: Aleks tv
            Sergey, good to see you!

            Similarly ... hi . For a long time did not communicate.
            And at the expense of comments - let people speak out, I still want to know what people "breathe" ...
          2. +9
            April 4 2014 15: 44
            If you are not in a conversation with Sergey (cvp67), then ... why don't you go into the "first comment" ???
            For the pros and ratings? Not tired?

            Nooooo, just at work, time is running out, here we’re indulging .............. rating is not needed, you can at least a sergeant, I don’t mind drinks laughing yes, and sometimes a beautiful dialogue pattern appears on the first page, so don’t usurp power! wink and you don’t have to swear, it’s not good .............. I promise not to write for the next three months, so that you can sleep more easily and in order to protect your nerves. bully hi from Peter
          3. +12
            April 4 2014 15: 48
            Discussions are more active from above than from below. The point here is no longer in the pluses and rating, but in the desire for the comment to start the discussion around the issue or statement. Below, a relevant commentary may simply not be noticed.
            1. avt
              +5
              April 4 2014 16: 07
              Quote: theadenter
              Discussions are more active from above than from below. The point here is no longer in the pluses and rating, but in the desire for the comment to start the discussion around the issue or statement. Below, a relevant commentary may simply not be noticed.

              This is if, again, you do not discuss personally and do not look at all the comments on the question of interest, and you catch up on the counter, it has been verified empirically.
          4. +5
            April 4 2014 19: 12
            Alexey. The topic you raised is about nothing. At one time there was a user (very respected by me) "Novosibirsk" - he tried to reset all the rating questions - nothing happened! And rightly so. Itself Kalbasilo when he reached his rank, and then let it go. This is a game, entertainment - nothing more. Relax. And have fun that at least virtually got "admiral" and + 1000000000 ... wink
        2. +2
          April 4 2014 17: 38
          Quote: strannik595
          and what, why not bribe a good designer ?.

          They can buy the project, but they are unlikely to put the mines into operation, Israel will not. Yes, and it’s not enough to buy drawings, we still have to learn how to make engines and so on.
    3. +4
      April 4 2014 15: 31
      The entire defense industry complex of Ukraine is tied to Russian orders. But on March 29, the acting General Director of the Ukroboronprom Concern Yuriy Tereshchenko announced the cessation of the supply of military equipment to the Russian Federation. Again, the acting Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk told one of the TV channels that it is planned to re-equip the defense industry through cooperation with the West. And only so far, they say, "have to use other people's samples." [/ quote] laughing laughing I don’t understand why to rewrite the morning article? came out today at 06.38 under a different name ... request
    4. +3
      April 4 2014 15: 38
      Sorry, sorry. Most importantly, if there were no buyers for the missiles themselves, there would be no buyers for the documentation. I think that the potential of the rocket for refinement has not yet been exhausted, and with the use of modern technologies, indicators can still be improved.
      1. +9
        April 4 2014 17: 51
        Quote: bvi1965
        there would be no buyers for the documentation.

        This is the whole danger of industrial espionage, as Belenki is rarely announced, and more and more microfilms with drawings. So, so that our achievements do not come up (like C-300, SU-27) in the west, we need a small short circuit and a big good fire in the archive of the enterprise. I think the future hero of the Russian Federation As..co, the country's leadership will be extremely grateful. At worst, pro-Russian residents can throw an archive of Molotov cocktails.
    5. Lazy
      +18
      April 4 2014 15: 38
      The voivode did his job in the 90s and 00s. Now we need to create an army. And their latest missiles, which no missile defense will be a hindrance.

      And we need to buy out Ukrainian enterprises through third parties. All the same, Ukraine is our zone and it is easier for us to work here than the Chinese. In the future, all the same, the entire defense industry of Ukraine will face bankruptcy. So why don’t we produce something there? Due to, by the way, cheap Ukrainian labor, there will be attractive export prices. And the wages there will definitely not increase in the near future. Let not the most strategic weapons be produced there. But this will be controlled by US and not NATO. It's the most important.
      1. Gloria45
        +7
        April 4 2014 17: 00
        Lazy
        The voivode did his job in 90 and 00

        But it’s a pity to part with him, all the more so inglorious
        manner, no I certainly didn’t want to be used directly
        by appointment, but Russia should decide its fate, and not a bunch of rabid
        villains.
    6. +4
      April 4 2014 16: 10
      You can still add! That the drawings do not mean anything without the technology of materials and others))
      Yes, and amersky factories can not reproduce, it was so many times !!!
      1. +6
        April 4 2014 16: 58
        What can be sold, ho .. Ukrainians have already sold. In particular, NTD missile-torpedoes "Shkval", etc. So, this is no longer relevant. The staff members have simply been purchasing the RD-180 for more than 10 years, having just available, although they wanted to reproduce it, but the guts are too thin.
    7. Dimkapvo
      +10
      April 4 2014 16: 27
      The term was extended to finished products, as the technology, taking into account the m / r, the complex itself is not outdated and is still dangerous for the United States. I doubt that Israel is interested in complexes of such power, but China will grasp without a doubt. And by the way, it is hard to believe that Ukraine has sacredly kept Soviet secrets for all these years ... I think that everything that could be sold was sold. It is strange to hope for the selectivity of betrayal.
    8. +5
      April 4 2014 18: 28
      Nothing, in 2017 there will be an even cooler ICBM "Sarmat"
    9. +3
      April 4 2014 19: 27
      But still, even the old missiles are still missiles. You can’t give them to anyone anyway, especially the documentation. Oh, I feel that the next time I will have to use the full potential of the Polite people ... After all, the Kiev hooligans will be squandered by the Voivode, they will definitely be squandered.
  2. zzz
    zzz
    +17
    April 4 2014 15: 15
    We need to take everything from them for debts. Bailiffs go there!
    1. +15
      April 4 2014 15: 19
      Quote: zzz
      Bailiffs go there!

      Polite bailiffs !!! smile
      1. +9
        April 4 2014 17: 14
        Quote: Sid.74
        Polite bailiffs !!!

        Eugene, forgot to add the greens. How much is enough?
    2. +7
      April 4 2014 15: 19
      We need to take everything from them for debts. Bailiffs go there!

      Polite bailiffs!
    3. +8
      April 4 2014 15: 25
      Quote: zzz
      We need to take everything from them for debts. Bailiffs go there!

      Sound thought. Only I think the direction of the bailiffs is not a matter of one day, we will not have time!
      It is most reasonable to persuade Ukrainian scientists to move to permanent residence with us! Let the drawings be destroyed.
      1. +16
        April 4 2014 16: 15
        Quote: dmitriygorshkov
        It is most reasonable to persuade Ukrainian scientists to move to permanent residence with us! Let the drawings be destroyed.
        Yes, let them move along with factories with housing and the region
    4. +2
      April 4 2014 16: 04
      I think that now they will feel debtors to the USA, here they will give all the documentation for a penny ... And then, copies will be sold to China and to everyone, everyone, everyone ...
  3. Shav1
    +13
    April 4 2014 15: 15
    Another confirmation that there can be no friends in politics. Thirty years of looking into the mouth of the West have been sprouting and have even grown. For Russia, the isolation of state development is the only way to preserve the country.
    1. +4
      April 4 2014 19: 51
      Quote: Shav1
      For Russia, the isolation of state development is the only way to preserve the country.

      Vague doubts torment me ... (c)
      History knows examples of self-isolation and what they led to.
      We all remember how we tried to strangle the USSR by building a sanitary cordon. How Soviet diplomats, playing on the contradictions of the capitalists, broke through the ring of this blockade. The USA did not recognize us until 33, and then, under Stalin's cunning policy, they built 2500 factories and factories, sending thousands of engineers and highly skilled workers - workers and technicians - to the 5-year-olds. This industrial base also helped us overcome the fascists.
      So you need to communicate, adopt the best of everything and quickly implement it at home, modernizing, nourishing scientific and design thought with new ideas. And sometimes it happens that you need tools to create a miracle of technology, and it is only beyond the hill. So the policy of self-isolationism is a pre-losing position on the great chessboard of Mr. Relations.
  4. +12
    April 4 2014 15: 15
    Its production has long been discontinued, but the design documentation is still in the CB "South".
    A small fire is quite capable of solving this problem, or a big one, as it happens.
  5. Voenruk
    +16
    April 4 2014 15: 15
    Carry out a special operation to seize documentation and destroy equipment.
  6. +10
    April 4 2014 15: 16
    steal or destroy documentation
  7. +20
    April 4 2014 15: 17
    and why did they get that 20 years they have not yet been sold?
  8. +7
    April 4 2014 15: 18
    Oh Lord, every day everything is "more fun", even if you don't read or watch the news, it's just horror ...
    It would be necessary to somehow destroy the documentation. That's when you regret that archives with paper media, with the click of a button, will not be destroyed.
    1. 0
      April 5 2014 02: 08
      Well, why destroy the documentation? You just need to invite polite intelligent people with an eraser and pencils. They rubbed it there and painted on it. And enjoy the fireworks.
  9. +5
    April 4 2014 15: 18
    Yes, this gang government for grandmas will drive anything and anyone.
  10. +5
    April 4 2014 15: 19
    But it’s a good thing to raise a panic, for a long time everyone has taken out that our government doesn’t understand it, the Southern Design Bureau has long had to be taken into its own
  11. +26
    April 4 2014 15: 20
    Can Ukraine transfer missile technology to the Jankens ???
    No offense to the people of Ukraine will be said, BUT:

    Since the independence of Ukraine:
    - cut 10 Tu-160, 19 Tu-95MS and 6 Tu-142 under the Nanna Lugar program for Amer’s money, refusing to sell them to Russia,
    - destroyed according to the same program in Poltava, Priluki and the White Church 60 Tu-22M (17 Tu-22М2 and 43 Tu-22М3).
    - destroyed the X-487 and 55 cruise missiles X-NUMX with the same macaron to please the Yankens 423
    Sold by USA:
    - 2 Su-27,
    - 1 Mig-29,
    - 1 BMP-3,
    - 4 T-80 with active protection "Drozd-2" and dynamic protection "Knife" (my tank brain is furious).
    And a drunken hedgehog in the taiga understands that this technique was sold to study and the optimal solution for their destruction in a possible conflict with Russia.

    Sold to China:
    - aircraft carriers Kiev and Minsk,
    - aircraft carrier cruiser Varyag with subsequent completion in China,
    - experienced T-10K,
    - technical documentation for NITKU.
    - 6 cruise missiles X-55 (+ 12 Iran).

    And this info is just like that, offhand ... from what I remembered ...

    So to sell secrets in pure form for the authorities of Ukraine - like two fingers on the asphalt ...
    Unfortunately...

    Prepared for sale in the USA T-80UD:
    clickable.
    1. +6
      April 4 2014 15: 45
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Sold to China:

      Not listed:
      - license to manufacture a 5TDF tank engine,
      - two KVP "Bizon" ...
    2. +8
      April 4 2014 17: 10
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Prepared for sale in the USA T-80UD:

      only for this to the wall of all these entrepreneurs.
      I also wanted to write about Bisons, Sergey indicated below hi
      There is also a bunch of all kinds of waste paper, where there were various production details for all joint projects in rocketry. There is no need to be sad, the Americans have known all the documentation about the voivode and about the BZHRK for 15 years. Another thing is that they still cannot find full-fledged protection against such a "sword". And there are no engines of our own, with such fail-safe indicators. Dragon has made about 10 successful flights, so what? It stands, gathers dust, can't take off, for completely stupid reasons. And here Progress has flown and will continue to fly. WE HAVE THE MOST SECRET WEAPON IS THE FILE and Russian ingenuity.
      1. Com T-64a
        +1
        April 4 2014 20: 10
        In the Lord God, Mother-Soul !!! Everything that our fathers have been creating for decades has been merged by Yanyka! ENEMIES! in minutes! 30 pcs. 7.62 them in the belly!
      2. +1
        April 4 2014 20: 30
        Quote: kirieeleyson
        THE MOST SECRET WEAPONS AT US - IT'S A FILE AND Russian ingenuity.

        Especially in microelectronics and nano-technologies!
        Denis, I didn’t want to offend you, but in modern conditions, the idea that "science is becoming the productive force of society." Here the "quick-witted Newtons" should be born from the Russian land. But there are "zaslantsy" who, at the behest from behind a puddle, with sadistic delight destroyed the education and training system. And the most knowledge-intensive and technically equipped industries first went bankrupt, and then dismembered and sold to the nouveau riche, so that they, having repurposed them, began to produce chamber pots.
        Thank God, through the efforts of Putin, we moved away from the edge of the abyss of Yeltsin's timelessness and began to revive Great Russia.
        Scientific clusters, scientific companies will help revive the former power of Russian science, and our kulibins will not leave the Yankees a chance to lead in the 2-th half of the 21 century.
        And the file - the descendants will surely erect a monument as a "Kalashnikov" of our industry.
    3. Windbreak
      0
      April 5 2014 11: 45
      Russia sold aircraft carriers Kiev and Minsk, not Ukraine
      1. 0
        April 5 2014 13: 12
        Quote: Burel
        Russia sold aircraft carriers Kiev and Minsk, not Ukraine

        Mlyn ... was wrong with these ships.
        I apologize. Wrong.
        Thank you for correcting.

        But the rest - everything is so.
        But this is my claim as a military man, not against Ukrainians, but against ... politicians of Ukraine.
  12. +6
    April 4 2014 15: 21
    They are bad, the current rulers of Ukraine, they can sell. Only the Chinese will go out of their way to assemble a rocket according to these drawings - "no matter how we collect it, everything turns out either fat or VAZ" as in that joke ...
    1. +1
      April 4 2014 16: 08
      Quote: Chifka
      are worn according to these drawings a rocket to collect
      We also need the entire technological chain for the production, assembly and testing of the product, in other words, Yuzhmash itself in aggregate. Well, and the engineering and design personnel. Is it all in stock?
      1. +1
        April 4 2014 17: 36
        Quote: dedal
        Well, engineering staff. Is it all in stock?


        Do the Chinese then?
        WILL.
        A little more maydanutnoy power - they themselves will be asked to go to heaven - there and with housing is much better.
        And there are already not so few carriers of surzhik - have you ever heard of a Chinese speaker speaking Russian with a Ukrainian accent? We already have in the markets.
  13. +10
    April 4 2014 15: 23
    Urgently include the entire southeast in Russia, otherwise they will soprut and sell!
  14. +6
    April 4 2014 15: 24
    The horror is direct, why the whole world is so tower-free that it’s dangerous even to entrust someone with a nuclear missile, it’s not in vain that God awarded Russia with such weapons, it at least somehow holds back scumbags. Honestly, with great respect for China, it is also reluctant that they would be ahead in this regard.
  15. +5
    April 4 2014 15: 29
    I hope our special services will work on the documentation and will not allow the leak of technology.
  16. +2
    April 4 2014 15: 31
    It's a pity for the rocket, but it seems like soon (by 2022) "Sarmat" will come up. Not long to wait. And those "Voevod" That is enough for us for now. Still mine-based.
  17. Antibrim
    +3
    April 4 2014 15: 32
    She’s already extended her deadlines, we are waiting for a new liquid-fuel rocket, and this alas, an old woman, although you can’t write off her accounts, she was ahead of her time.
  18. Eydolon
    +4
    April 4 2014 15: 33
    Another reason for the Russian Federation to allow everything by Force
    1. +1
      April 4 2014 20: 53
      Quote: Eydolon
      Another reason for the Russian Federation to allow everything by Force

      It is best to resolve all situations with the TRUTH! without double hypocritical staffing standards.
      Then you can overcome everything and endure torture like Taras Bulba. ("Is there really such a force that would overpower the RUSSIAN FORCE!")
      PS Though N.V. Gogol wrote about the Cossacks of Little Russia, but judging by the name of the main character, he is a Belarusian!
      ("Bulba" in Belarusian means potato. In Ukrainian "potato" means potato!)
      IMHO.
  19. +2
    April 4 2014 15: 39
    To moderators.
    The identical text has already been posted on VO. http://topwar.ru/42994-territoriya-ohoty-na-satanu.html

    On this topic. I believe that the drawings were sold a long time ago. Only to build a hell out of them will work, too complicated a machine. Without cooperation with hundreds of other enterprises in any way.
    Surely you can see some ideas in the documentation, but nothing more.
    1. +1
      April 4 2014 16: 00
      Quote: tolancop
      On this topic. I believe that the drawings were sold a long time ago. Only to build a hell out of them will work, too complicated a machine. Without cooperation with hundreds of other enterprises in any way.

      In addition: knowing the device of the rocket the enemy it flies to will not be protected from the rocket itself! And drawings without technology are of little use. And most importantly: China India / with whom we actively share rocket technology / Iran ALREADY HAVE ROCKETS that can reach us ! In general about the loss of documents on ballistic missiles, let the United States have a headache! This concerns us only about service, that is, it can be solved!
  20. Vtel
    +1
    April 4 2014 15: 42
    They were supposed to sell fat, but a vigorous bomb - the main thing is their process itself.
    1. +3
      April 4 2014 18: 28
      Quote: Vtel
      They were supposed to sell fat, but a vigorous bomb - the main thing is their process itself.

      You're not right. They themselves can eat bacon, and what they don’t eat, they will bite. But the vigorous bomb, why not sell it, you won’t eat it. laughing
      1. +1
        April 4 2014 20: 17
        I put the article +, although the author operates with information "sucked from the finger." Let's start with the fact that the Yuzhnoye design bureau has not been under the control of the Russian special services for a very long time. And as you know, a holy place is never empty. Naturally, it is under the control of American special services, which, under the current leadership of Ukraine, can exercise this control openly. All the secrets that have ever been in Ukraine were transferred by the current head of the Soviet without Nalyvaychenko back in the days of Yushchenko. Therefore, "designer supervision" and the extension of resources could well have been done by CIA agents under the guise of representatives of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau. I think from this it is necessary to draw conclusions. Well, the fact that missile technology can go to China or other countries to which the nonproliferation agreement applies is generally the height of idiocy! The Americans withdraw with ease from any agreements when it suits them, whether it be agreements on missile defense or non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, and under Reagan they even launched a program to put weapons into space, which continues to this day. Therefore, Russia is simply obliged now to begin cooperation with all "potential friends" of America for the purpose of joint cooperation on missile and nuclear and missile defense, in general, on all technologies capable of harming NATO countries. The start of such negotiations in itself will not only be a signal for the American hawks, it will be exactly what will make them sit at the negotiating table on Ukraine. They will not sacrifice even 1% of their own security for the sake of some strange Ukraine.
    2. +2
      April 4 2014 21: 01
      Quote: Vtel
      They were supposed to sell fat, but a vigorous bomb - the main thing is their process itself.

      Quote: Nagan
      But the vigorous bomb, why not sell it, you won’t eat it.

      Probably would have sold, but here's the trouble! They don’t have nuclear weapons, only the VIRTUAL remains! Something like that, but smaller trochs.
  21. Gagarin
    +5
    April 4 2014 15: 43
    How many more surprises will bring Kiev this year ....!
    1. +3
      April 4 2014 16: 42
      Oh, I think a lot!
  22. +2
    April 4 2014 15: 51
    Blah, blah, blah, blah. Empty talk. Only now comes an understanding of how much we are tied to each other and the current losses - the result of actions begun 30 years ago, when Gorbaty came to power, and we all fell for sweet songs.
    Congratulations to all of us, the time has come for a severe hangover, I hope to be sober and will continue to be smarter.
    And yet, Western sanctions are effective, and then many shouted that we would throw their hats, it’s only a shame that the most basic ones will come from the fraternal people of Ukraine.
  23. +4
    April 4 2014 15: 52
    Quote: svp67
    Sooner or later, but "Voevod" will have to be abandoned.

    the issue is not voivode, but in technology, design ideas and engineering solutions
  24. +4
    April 4 2014 16: 01
    10 years ago from Pervomaisk (Nikolaev region ??) there was an "aunt" with the rank of colonel. even then the Americans allocated money for recycling and said that the Americans were dismantling the missiles and fixing everything to the screw. so we passed everything long ago.
  25. +1
    April 4 2014 16: 14
    We need to make our own "Voevoda" so that it is twice as fast and the load is doubled.
  26. -2
    April 4 2014 16: 17
    It is not too late to steal all technologies with developers. Or bargain with Tymoshenko to support her in the elections in exchange for all of the above.
    1. 0
      April 4 2014 20: 17
      Quote: Bob0859
      Or bargain with Tymoshenko to support her in the elections in exchange for all of the above.

      She is the most malacholny of usih candidates! (Yarosh doesn’t count).
      They already supported her, they gave a discount on gas ... And Yulka, in gratitude, "is ready to take the machine gun herself and distribute katsapof together with their main atomic weapon."
      And how to support such a fool?
      Anyway, which of them to support? It seems that in Ukraine, presidential candidates without a criminal record are not allowed to register! fellow
  27. +3
    April 4 2014 16: 21
    Yes, it would be necessary as soon as possible to take the whole Southeast, and then all these eggs will quickly pass everything to the West and Israel, they themselves will not forget their homeland, they will quickly throw all the secrets there and from there to the States, that’s the trouble, this cannot be allowed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  28. +5
    April 4 2014 16: 24
    In the light of the available facts of venality not only of the current, but of all the previous authorities of Ukraine, we can conclude. Whoever needed to find out, buy, find out everything has already been done, and "VOEVODA" is probably on that long list. It is unlikely that you can create the same one, but you can spoil your nerves with some homemade product according to the "model".
    It is necessary to resolve the issue by force not because of the "Voyevoda", but because of the people. The longer Ukraine will be under the zombie of amers, the more difficult it will be to put the people in order (first of all, their heads). I think that the DELAY OF DEATH is LIKE here.
  29. +3
    April 4 2014 16: 37
    In 1991, Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union a powerful military-industrial complex, including the production of space rocket technology.
    My heart bleeds when I think about it .. This is because the whole country created during the times of the USSR (largely denying itself) For 23 years, of course, already 70 percent have collapsed and started and still save at least 30% .. In general, with such an industrial and scientific potential Ukraine has turned into a beggarly country ..paradox am
    1. +2
      April 4 2014 21: 36
      Quote: MIKHAN
      In 1991, Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union a powerful military-industrial complex, including the production of space rocket technology.
      My heart bleeds when I think about it .. This is because the whole country created during the times of the USSR (largely denying itself) For 23 years, of course, already 70 percent have collapsed and started and still save at least 30% .. In general, with such an industrial and scientific potential Ukraine has turned into a beggarly country ..paradox am

      I will answer and repeat for the umpteenth time, in 92 when our suppliers and I went to Russia as usual for repair kits, then Kuibyshev, they were told that they had come up with a secret directive from the top to freeze all relations with Ukraine, nor any spare parts, after that Kravchuk and Yeltsin also signed an agreement about I don’t remember exactly, supposedly about friendship and cooperation, an example was driven by MI 26, then, in 2000 I left for Israel, they were so half-ready,. Then ours went and bought from the hands of workers, and you drive everything to Ukraine, on turntables, you also had to switch to your repair kit, what was sold, these prices were bent, there is such a hydraulic accumulator on 24ku, in fact, a rubber oil-resistant ball, well or something like that it dawned that 500 bucks demanded for it, I had to make my own,.
  30. 0
    April 4 2014 16: 41
    Well, at first you will be gutted if you have not gutted already everything they need in this design bureau. And then they will simply start selling everything to the one who pays the most, especially those who are not friends with Russia. This bl..b with a loaf on the skull will clearly contribute to the burial of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex and the speedy further degradation of all that remains to be workers.
    The sad thing is that there are now dollars in power .... s alone who laid down on everyone and everything in Ukraine except themselves as "good"
    1. 0
      April 4 2014 20: 28
      Quote: Belarus
      This fucking bun with a skull roll

      laughing laughing laughing
      That roll is called "glade"!
  31. LIS 25
    +1
    April 4 2014 16: 53
    the voivode is a good rocket, it is not for nothing that in the west it is called Satan, oh, sorry KB "Yuzhnoye" went to Ukraine. crying
  32. +2
    April 4 2014 17: 09
    They won’t drink so much. During its construction, so much alcohol was drunk that you never dreamed of. Without some kind of mother and a glass of alcohol, no one except us will be able to figure it out. And we will not explain our secrets to them. There, the main thing in this rocket, besides the control itself, is the mortar launch. But we won’t tell anyone about him at all. Not gu-gu.
    1. 0
      April 4 2014 23: 28
      Quote: Signaller
      Not gu-gu.

      Yes, they don’t have enough health.
      But seriously, when I started as an engineer, I noticed a strange thing. Very sophisticated weapons systems somehow feel who is working with them. If even a very clever specialist approaches them, she will still perceive him as a stranger, because another person put his soul and strength into her combat readiness, repair of those services. He even argued with the battalion commander and won a bottle of cognac. At the Academy on engineering, he asked the teachers and it turned out that so many observed this pattern. So it’s not worth worrying that the Voivode will fly in the hands of the CIA and no documentation will help them.
  33. 0
    April 4 2014 17: 17
    Quote: Signaller
    They won’t drink so much. During its construction, so much alcohol was drunk that you never dreamed of. Without some kind of mother and a glass of alcohol, no one except us will be able to figure it out. And we will not explain our secrets to them. There, the main thing in this rocket, besides the control itself, is the mortar launch. But we won’t tell anyone about him at all. Not gu-gu.

    Well, God forbid ..))) laughing Cheteo explained everything ...)))
  34. +1
    April 4 2014 17: 25
    Painfully reacting to the manifestations of neo-Nazism in Europe, the Israeli leadership did not pay attention to the beating in Kiev of the head of the Jewish organization, Rabbi Cohen and the famous musician Ian Tabachnik, to arson of synagogues and anti-Semitic inscriptions. Apparently, there is a very great interest in Ukraine, in one really existing resource - rocket technology.
    Who would doubt that. When Israel sees its benefits, it is spitting to spit on its fellow tribesmen, on religion and all petty nonsense like the Nazis. Then, having received the desired, they again howl about the Holocaust and about the oppression of the poor, unhappy Jews, but for now they are ready to kiss anyone for nothing, anyhow to profit. Ugh. On the contrary. negative
  35. +1
    April 4 2014 17: 28
    Quote: bvi1965
    Sorry, sorry. Most importantly, if there were no buyers for the missiles themselves, there would be no buyers for the documentation. I think that the potential of the rocket for refinement has not yet been exhausted, and with the use of modern technologies, indicators can still be improved.
    I totally agree. And in general, what did the Rulers think in the USSR? They built nuclear power plants in Uraine, in the Baltic states RAF, WEF, Šilalis, Riga carriage-independent, design bureaus are different for our mostly money, so what? And why not build all this on the territory of Russia, you should always consider the possibility of separatism. What would these plants prevent us from doing now? You need to have and love friends, but not to the extent that you can take off your gray shirt.
    1. +1
      April 4 2014 21: 15
      Quote: Russian_German
      Friends need to have and love, but not to the extent that they take off their last shirt.

      This is what it means to LOVE IN RUSSIAN! And for us, it’s worth giving our lives for our loved ones. This is how we are RUSSIAN.
    2. 0
      April 4 2014 22: 14
      And Khrushchev gave the base to the Albanians with all the stuffing. It’s 62 dollars like crazy rabbits in money. Nothing, not even shot.
  36. +1
    April 4 2014 17: 30
    Everything has long been stolen ... no need to build illusions.
  37. +2
    April 4 2014 17: 32
    I recalled a joke from childhood:
    The Americans stole the drawings of the latest fighter of the USSR ..
    Collected for a long time understood .. Externally, it looks like a locomotive ..)))
    Again, we took it apart, carefully checked it, collected it .. Again the engine))
    That kind of money poured to steal ..
    We found a fugitive engineer from the USSR and so explain what the drawings are real ..
    Why does the engine turn out ..?
    Engineer; Well, you are stupid ... At the end of the drawings, it is written in small print ..
    "After assembly, file with a file .." ...
    bully bully drinks
  38. +1
    April 4 2014 17: 37
    Quote: Voenruk
    Carry out a special operation to seize documentation and destroy equipment.

    Thought is correct !!! I am sure Israel would have done so.
  39. -1
    April 4 2014 17: 47
    Quote: dedal
    We also need the entire technological chain for the production, assembly and testing of the product, in other words, Yuzhmash itself in aggregate. Well, and the engineering and design personnel. Is it all in stock?
    Just do not underestimate the Chinese! And then this is fraught with unfortunate consequences. By the way, I think that China will nevertheless attack Russia, at 24m, but first, in my opinion, the communist regime will collapse there.
    1. 0
      April 4 2014 18: 00
      Quote: Russian_German
      Quote: dedal
      We also need the entire technological chain for the production, assembly and testing of the product, in other words, Yuzhmash itself in aggregate. Well, and the engineering and design personnel. Is it all in stock?
      Just do not underestimate the Chinese! And then this is fraught with unfortunate consequences. By the way, I think that China will nevertheless attack Russia, at 24m, but first, in my opinion, the communist regime will collapse there.

      We have already attacked and I agree there will be another attempt .. I think we will fight back as always ..! The Chinese do not have a "soul of flight"; they are hardworking executive copiers .. There are a lot of them .. And we are here and how can we help ..?))) As the Chukchi said in the joke "We can, but we will have to bury a lot .." .. Well, that's something like this ..)))
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. yur
      yur
      +1
      April 4 2014 19: 56
      Quote: Russian_German
      fraught with unfortunate consequences. By the way, I think that China will nevertheless attack Russia, at 24m,
      But I think that it will attack not in the 24th, but in the 24th and a half, and not China, but the Martians, and not against Russia, but against the lunatics! fool
  40. -2
    April 4 2014 17: 56
    Quote: Sergei75
    Blah, blah, blah, blah. Empty talk. Only now comes an understanding of how much we are tied to each other and the current losses - the result of actions begun 30 years ago, when Gorbaty came to power,
    Not Humpbacked, but Leninists in the 1918-1920s gave Russian lands to Ukraine. Then the CPSU at any moment could say everything, the Russian lands are again the territory of Russia, no one would blather !!! Betrayal began with a revolution!
  41. +1
    April 4 2014 18: 03
    No need to panic. In the first, the Americans have long had blueprints, they immediately took sponsorship in Ukraine as soon as we left. Secondly, they cannot make a rocket, in Ukraine only assembly drawings, and materials and components came from all over the Soviet Union. I think even if we would like to recreate the production of these missiles now, we are unlikely to succeed (many technologies have been lost).
  42. +1
    April 4 2014 18: 16
    Quote: Athenogen
    No need to panic. In the first, the Americans have long had blueprints, they immediately took sponsorship in Ukraine as soon as we left. Secondly, they cannot make a rocket, in Ukraine only assembly drawings, and materials and components came from all over the Soviet Union. I think even if we would like to recreate the production of these missiles now, we are unlikely to succeed (many technologies have been lost).

    Specialists feel sorry for the middle link .. (there is no one to pass on the experience) ... In Russia this is also a problem but not to such an extent The fact is that such scientific and industrial complexes were created during the Soviet era on enthusiasm and not for money and title .. patriotism and creative flight of thought (already ring for pathos) but the way it was ..)))
  43. +4
    April 4 2014 18: 16
    Do you think the South Masters are happy? In general, they just recently started to climb out a little (and then at the expense of Brazil and the Cyclone) due to the fact that they take on any work. Somewhere, do a step, somewhere a part, somewhere to participate for real money to do any work. A sort of rocket technology plant — one that is ready for any job, the main thing is to survive (this is a feature of almost all Ukrainian plants) in this area.
    There are few such plants in the world. Ready to work with any customer.
    In recent years, like the Russian Federation, it has overcame the joint ones on Cyclones and others. It seems that interest has revived after the Moscow agreements, but the coup buried that joyful event for joint work.
    I don’t know how important the plant itself is for the Russian Federation - you have a lot of such things.
    We have a symbol of our space industry. For a poor country .. which has both air and space - this was a small outlet ...
  44. +2
    April 4 2014 18: 17
    Quote: svp67
    Sooner or later, but "Voevod" will have to be abandoned. Their shelf life has already been extended more than once ... So, of course, it's a pity, but it is necessary to focus on the products of Russian design bureaus and enterprises ...


    Yes, the service life has come to an end. Well, as the Jews say: "Every difference, there is a big difference." The surviving technical documentation contains the entire mathematical apparatus. Material specifications. Detailed description of electronic warfare equipment, missile defense echelon. Everything is written down to the last screw, and the description of still secret technologies is clearly contained. God forbid, they will get to the mattress.
    Need a special. the operation to eliminate particularly valuable technical documentation, while there is a mess.
  45. +1
    April 4 2014 18: 29
    After all, people, factory workers are sorry. Families feed on what?
  46. +1
    April 4 2014 18: 34
    H..ly were always ready to go to the pod, so it can come out with "Satan". Here our GRU must not doze. It is necessary to suppress any attempts to shake off this missile by the Ukrainians.
  47. 0
    April 4 2014 18: 45
    and a hedgehog it’s clear that America must have already brought Russia to the blueprints with drawings. but the main thing is not the drawings, the main thing is technology.
  48. Oml
    0
    April 4 2014 18: 59
    Quote: KAPITANUS
    After all, people, factory workers are sorry. Families feed on what?


    After all, the surprising thing was when the workers of the factory workers were asked why they did not speak out for their views, against oppression, the answer was: once, you need to feed your family. Well, let's wait until they feed?
  49. +1
    April 4 2014 19: 02
    Quote: kirieeleyson
    THE MOST SECRET WEAPONS AT US - IT'S A FILE AND Russian ingenuity.


    Not much is not accurate, we have the most secret weapon, with the help of scrap and some kind of mother, it will be more accurate.
  50. 0
    April 4 2014 19: 07
    There will be little sense from this documentation. "Yuzhmash" was the head enterprise providing the final assembly of the "product". And dozens of enterprises that supplied various blocks and units took part in the production. It is not a fact that "Yuzhmash" has documentation in full. Now even " Yuzhmash will not make Satan on its own.
  51. +1
    April 4 2014 19: 09
    we need to offer jobs to engineers and designers from Ukrainian enterprises, provide housing to families, I also think that our special services are not stupider than us swamis, but that they understand all these things no worse than us, that’s for sure! I think if we haven’t taken out these drawings and documents yet and if there is no such opportunity now, then our special services will find a way to destroy them, and people with pleasure, I think, will move to live in RUSSIA, but we need a decent salary and the housing issue should be resolved, and these creative people, RUSSIAN in spirit, will first of all create great things for RUSSIA !although I don’t see the difference between KIEVAN RUSSIA AND PRESENT RUSSIA!
  52. +1
    April 4 2014 19: 20
    Quote: gloria45
    Lazy
    The voivode did his job in 90 and 00

    But it’s a pity to part with him, all the more so inglorious
    manner, no I certainly didn’t want to be used directly
    by appointment, but Russia should decide its fate, and not a bunch of rabid
    villains.


    I agree twice. I am personally familiar with both complexes - I served on one, studied the second, and hoped that I would have to serve. As far as I know, both complexes have purely Russian components. Which means not all is lost. We just need to inform our Chinese comrades that it is better to contact us.
    At the same time, I remember that in the 80s, in addition to the Speed ​​PGRK, a PGRK was developed based on the KAMAZ chassis. A light and mobile complex that was camouflaged as an ordinary truck. It seems that things even came to the development of technical specifications. Maybe remember the old things?
  53. 0
    April 4 2014 20: 18
    Quote: Geisenberg
    UR-100 is an unrivaled missile.

    Took it off my tongue. I support it three times.
    In principle, yars cannot replace it. Perhaps in addition to such OS-type missiles for deployment in readiness to VO.
    1. +1
      April 4 2014 21: 54
      Quote: AlexA
      Perhaps in addition to such OS-type missiles.

      Not missiles, but silos of the "OS" type (single launch):
      “The second-generation RKs adopted for service had single silo launchers of the OS type with protection for them and command posts from the effects of high pressures in the shock wave front during nuclear explosions. These were missile systems with ampulized liquid rockets: the “heavy” R-36 (developed by the OKB -586, since 1966 the OKB became known as the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau), “light” UR-100 and UR-100U (OKB-52, since 1966 the OKB became known as the TsMKB - Central Mechanical Engineering Design Bureau), as well as with RT- missiles 2 (OKB-1, later TsKBEM) and RT-2P (TsKBEM with Arsenal design bureau) with solid fuel engines. A group of several (up to 10) silos with missiles installed in them and a protected underground command post made up the combat missile system (CBM) The complexes were located in positional areas with single OS-type silos, spaced at such a distance that two launchers could not be hit by one nuclear explosion, that is, several kilometers from each other" http://chast-93764.narod.ru
      Quote: AlexA
      for deployment in readiness VO.

      Yes, "Yarsy" are dual-based systems. But would it be reasonable for the military to hide them in a silo, the coordinates of which are known to within a meter, rather than deploy them to combat areas (maneuverable areas).
  54. 0
    April 4 2014 20: 55
    Quote: perepilka
    Quote: polite people
    And our "PUNISHERS" will ride on the ground

    Will not. Need to be complete fool , to adopt this arsenal

    What I personally liked is that it’s a completely fantastic model, the main thing is what the filling is and the security system, as well as in what conditions and + the manufacturing price.
  55. 0
    April 4 2014 20: 58
    people, Ukraine has been selling its entire Soviet heritage to everyone for 20 years, why would one suddenly think that the “secrets” of Satan were not studied in America back in 92?
  56. 0
    April 4 2014 21: 55
    "The governor can be kidnapped"! May it be for you. Everything they could have been stolen a long time ago since the beginning of “independence”, EBNs and Gaidars with Chubais. Only the Chinese can copy this. This is what we are seeing.
  57. 0
    April 5 2014 02: 48
    Did you think that cookies were brought to the Maidan just like that? Everyone who once “carried cookies to Kosovo” now owns the local mineral resources and industries!
  58. Makyr
    0
    April 5 2014 06: 48
    You can steal the drawings, you can steal the designers, you can even steal an entire plant, BUT impossible steal technologies and equipment used to produce semi-finished products for products - technologies for smelting and processing steels and alloys that are located in Russia.
    In any case, even if there is an entire assembly production cycle, but in the absence of a production one, the product will not work, or a surrogate ersatz with low characteristics will come out.