Military Review

Armor is strong. How to collect armored personnel carriers

29
An armored personnel carrier on close acquaintance turned out to be very beautiful and somehow correct in proportion. A clot of pure functionalism multiplied by the crocodile animal plastics.




Bare bodies, factory workers say "gondola", come from nearby Vyksa. Already welded, painted and part of the wiring and mechanization of the suspension.



Shinmontazh. Tightening the tire on the disc, manually.



Further, the body with bolted wheels, stand on the assembly line.



Inside the body put the line and install the devices.



Conveyor. No automation. No robots. All pens. There are no overhead lines, and therefore no pneumatic tools. The only thing I saw was the impact wrench for loosening the wheel nuts. Yes, and that electric, heavy. However, all operations and details are subject to tight controls. Perhaps, therefore, the percentage of complaints is extremely low.



BTR - fully hydro and gas insulated. On the photo there is a door with a gas analyzer.



Installation of all sorts of pieces. The enterprise is a military one, so a very tight control was taken behind the photo shoot.



Conveyor. The cars themselves do not travel, the tape with supports moves under them.





Motor and Gearbox KAMAZ, On the motor, two turbines blowing in different sections. Mechanical injection pump. Without EURO.





Machines with installed power plants.



Workshop debugging and adjustment.





Then the cars go to the installation of what is ordered. Even the skin material inside is being discussed (Rolls-Royce is resting). In general, the BTR is already full of modifications: floating and non-floating, a communications vehicle, a command and command vehicle (instead of a tower, a hump above the landing compartment) and much more that the customer will order. There is even a pickup.



In this workshop, all products move under their own power. The main thing is to be attentive, can pin down.



Various modifications of machines.



Different camouflage.



And various attachments.



All cars are waiting for a test march, this is 100 kilometers with a factory driver, and then another 50 km - with a customer representative. And only then, if nothing has fallen off or broken, the product is shipped to the customer.



Pool. Part of the test march.
And it swims! Not a speed boat, of course. But not "Titanic". Does not sink. It floats and even rolls in turns, like a real ship.



Out of the water. Looks very impressive.



After the march, the products are driven to the state acceptance. Check everything. Literally.



Having plunged into a minibus waiting for us, we moved to the side of the landfill. There also went and bathed BTR. The landfill is located on the factory. Not large in size. A standard set of obstacles that the tested equipment passes in a standard and “cool” way. What actually happened.





I am in between filming, I managed to shoot a small video.

Originator:
http://kak-eto-sdelano.livejournal.com
29 comments
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  1. sso-xnumx
    sso-xnumx 26 March 2014 08: 39
    +6
    I wanted to ride. With the wind!!!
    Good product !!!
    1. tank 34
      tank 34 26 March 2014 23: 06
      +2
      that's for sure. Not cars-- SONG.
  2. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 26 March 2014 08: 52
    +17
    It is unfortunate that the assembly of machines is done with a hand tool.
    Undoubtedly, the assembly line can be mechanized to facilitate the work of people (hence, the assembly rate will increase).
    The installation of pneumatic system pipelines, hydraulic systems and the installation of on-board electrical equipment lines and other similar systems are also depressing. After all, it is possible to mount everything more thoughtfully, so that in case of a malfunction or damage (the equipment is fighting), it would be possible to quickly repair the car and put it into operation. And in the form as it is now mounted, in the event of a malfunction or damage, a lot of time is spent on repair and restoration, not counting the time to find the cause of the malfunction.
    It would be nice to work on this here.



    This, it’s not at any gate.
    1. Srgsoap
      Srgsoap 26 March 2014 09: 11
      +5
      Hello! What is true is true. And a hand tool and everything else .... Yes, at least the same pneumatic tools ...
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 09: 31
      +8
      There are also known diseases with transmission units that need to be fought and eradicated.
      For example, drives from axles to wheel gears. Instead of driveshafts with crosses, it has long been possible to install drive shafts with CV joints that are more durable and more reliable in operation, as well as easier to replace than cardans.
      Something needs to be done with the diseases of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
      When upgrading the 80s to the 82nd, all emphasis was placed on strengthening the protection of the armored corps and on weapons. For other nodes, for some reason they forgot.
      But they also need improvement.
      I will tell you about dvigl too. The Kamaz ICE may be good in some ways, but the YaMZ-238 will be better in any way. It pulls better on the bottoms, is less prone to overheating and generally more reliable in operation than a KAMAZ diesel. There are forced versions of it over 300 hp.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 26 March 2014 11: 47
        +4
        Quote: wanderer_032
        There are also known diseases with transmission units that need to be fought and eradicated.


        all of the shortcomings listed by you have been resolved on the BTR-90 (GAZ-5923) ((((
        this is what the army is now in >>>> 20 year, still far away (((
        and the events in the Crimea showed how great the importance of wheeled, armored vehicles in network-centric operations !!!!
        1. Saburov
          Saburov 26 March 2014 19: 11
          +1
          You take a look at the height of the BTR-90, I was at the exhibition in 2013 and there the representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense pointed to the high silhouette of the BTR-90, although there are still a few flaws, but these are secondary issues.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 7 January 2018 23: 49
            0
            and what's the trouble with the height? Yes, the height is 2,5m versus 3m, but on the 90th the clearance is 350mm more, and the hull is higher due to the reduction of the tower, that is, the height of the car with the same clearance there is a difference of 150-200mm
    3. Footmansur86
      Footmansur86 26 March 2014 09: 47
      +11
      What do you suggest? close all the casing? He served on such machines, I can say that everything is within reach for the crew; any broken wire or pipeline can be easily found and repaired, also for BMP-2, the problem is the poor fire extinguishing system and the lack of a modern fire control system.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 26 March 2014 10: 34
        +3
        Quote: Footmansur86
        What do you suggest? close all the casing?

        No, it’s not, I suggest installing it so that you can quickly find a malfunction or damage, quickly replace damaged elements and return the machine to service.
        Quote: Footmansur86
        any broken wire or pipeline can be easily found and repaired

        Uh-huh. Me about this "easily" you can not hang on your ears. By my military profession, I am a driver-mechanic of wheeled armored personnel carriers. And I myself know about these cars not by hearsay from someone.
        From your words you can immediately see that you yourself did not tinker with this technique.
        You just drove on it.
    4. cosmos111
      cosmos111 26 March 2014 11: 33
      +4
      Quote: wanderer_032
      It is unfortunate that the assembly of machines is done with a hand tool.

      the plant belongs to the oligarch >>> people, workers do not care and the technological re-equipment of the plant is not a priority (((((
      Quote: wanderer_032
      It is also oppressed by the installation according to outdated technology of pipelines of the pneumatic system, hydraulic system and the installation of lines of on-board electrical equipment

      this is solved by modularity in design, replacing one module in combat conditions by the crew, and repair >>> by specialists in the rear ((((
      undeservedly forgotten, modular armored car GAZ-39371 "Vodnik" 4x4, its minor modernization >>> one of the best armored personnel carriers, broneavto..in Russia !!!!
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 26 March 2014 12: 09
        +3
        Quote: cosmos111
        GAZ-39371 "Vodnik"

        There were no orders for "Vodnik" and it was sacrificed to "Tiger". “Tiger” was considered more promising and not in vain.
        Such multi-purpose vehicles in our aircraft are still not enough.
        The next generation of such machines is the "Wolf" BA.
        And the armored personnel carrier and the "Vodnik" (which was created on its units) are different vehicles.
        BTRs are more universal in terms of their use in the troops.
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 26 March 2014 13: 46
          +1
          Quote: wanderer_032
          at “Tiger.” “Tiger” was considered more promising and not in vain.

          "Tiger" showed in the Crimea that it is an excellent armored car ....
          but this is not a multi-purpose armored car ..., the armored hull is not hermetic (((
          and the "Tiger" does not have a modular structure ((((
          "Wolf" is not seaworthy, but has a modular design, but the chassis is not modified and is not protected from mines and IEDs ((((

          promising "classic" armored personnel carrier 8x8 as well, should have a modular design (((
          with duplication of all (or almost all) systems !!!
          special chassis "Vepr" of the St. Petersburg design bureau "Cayman" with a V-shaped mine-protected bottom
          there are many, modern developments (((

    5. tundra
      tundra 26 March 2014 21: 26
      -1
      HERE OF course you can argue. Manual assembly is always better, the example of Dakar is Paris, our stool is the first, excuse me, the machine doesn’t turn the tongue. Surely there is a rational grain in this. IN BATTLE (THIS IS MY OPINION) not before repair. Although if a large series, if God forbid, then it’s cheaper and more practical, etc. pr-T-34 is the clearest example.
  3. marsel1524
    marsel1524 26 March 2014 09: 18
    +5
    at least kill I can’t understand: why it is impossible to separate the 2nd and 3rd axis by at least 30-40cm to make a convenient hatch for the landing?
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 09: 44
      +4
      Quote: marsel1524
      at least kill I can’t understand: why it is impossible to separate the 2nd and 3rd axis by at least 30-40cm to make a convenient hatch for the landing?

      It is possible to do this, but it will require all the alteration of the armored hull.
      It will also be necessary to make new landing hatches.
      And then to start mass production of all this.
      But this process in our country is long and not cheap, unfortunately.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 26 March 2014 12: 01
        +3
        Quote: wanderer_032
        It is possible to do this, but it will require all the alteration of the armored hull.

        need a full door to enter and exit ((((
        will require, but not the entire armored hull (((
        as solved, on "Textron TAPV" (command) (((
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 26 March 2014 12: 20
          +1
          Quote: cosmos111
          as resolved on "Textron TAPV" (command)

          Personally, I don't like a door like the Commando. It's too heavy.
          It is better to make the upper leaf so that it rises upward on the torsion bar like tank hatches.
    2. Footmansur86
      Footmansur86 26 March 2014 09: 50
      0
      everything is possible, for example, at one time due to a fire at the Kamaz plant and problems with the supply of engines, engines were installed on the BTR-80, if MAZ is not mistaken, the base there was a little longer, but the military responded poorly, but the precedent was
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 26 March 2014 11: 15
          +2
          Quote: stix99
          And with a limited engine compartment on an armored troop carrier, it’s so much!

          When I climbed in the 80s, something did not notice that she had little space in the MTO.
          On the sides of the MTO there was so much space that I climbed there entirely, to the very bottom.
          And to check the belt tension when installing YaMZ-238 does not cause any difficulties.
          80-a paradise for the mechanic in terms of access to the engine and its systems.
          Unlike 70s.

      2. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 26 March 2014 11: 06
        +5
        Quote: Footmansur86
        MAZ,

        Diesel engines from the Yaroslavl Motor Plant (YaMZ) are installed on MAZ, KRAZ and partially URAL vehicles.
        These are both 6-cylinder diesel engines of the YaMZ-236 series and 8-cylinder series of the YaMZ-238.
        In addition, these diesel engines are put on many samples of special equipment and tractors.
        YaMZ engines have a reputation of being reliable among the driver and machine brotherhood, in contrast to the KAMAZ engines.
  4. Az_esm
    Az_esm 26 March 2014 09: 21
    +2
    The product is good, but the "Rostok" was wasted.
  5. Weniamin
    Weniamin 26 March 2014 09: 24
    +1
    On such an SUV, go fishing or hunting. Dream!
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 09: 39
      +2
      Quote: Weniamin
      On such an SUV, go fishing or hunting. Dream!


      For fishing and hunting civilian vehicles in bulk now. And on this, fishing will be very expensive. It is easier and cheaper to order fish or game in the store, with home delivery.
    2. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 8 January 2018 01: 56
      0
      you can ride but only through the forest because they will not be allowed on the road
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 10: 44
      +1
      Quote: stix99
      A CV joint boot breaks to shreds when driving through rough terrain ...

      And about the protective covers on the anthers of SHRUS it was not possible to hear?
      They have been installed on the front axle drives on the "Niva" for how many years.






      This is a "Nivovsky" drive assembly. wink
      And what same casings can not be put on large cars or what?
      To rubber anthers do not vomit.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 26 March 2014 11: 44
        +2
        SHRUS has another serious minus compared to the universal joint (especially for a combat vehicle): the universal joint, most likely, will tear off the attachment points, but the joint may damage the differential
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 26 March 2014 13: 42
          0
          Quote: ramsi
          SHRUS has another serious minus compared to the universal joint (especially for a combat vehicle): the universal joint, most likely, will tear off the attachment points, but the joint may damage the differential


          But the cardan has more disadvantages in operation:
          1.mass
          2. high vibration during rotation (which breaks the axle bearings in the axles and the bearings of the wheel gears, without any combat damage)
          3.Small working angles with vertical suspension and when turning the wheels

          Installing a constant velocity joint would reduce the overall level of vibration and noise from the transmission, would increase the vertical travel of the suspension and would increase the angle of rotation of the steered wheels of 1-2 axles.
          As a result of this, the machine could move more quietly, more smoothly, at a higher speed and could better maneuver (which in the conditions of us. Punts for the BTR-60,70,80, XNUMX is a known problem).
          And the fact that the SHRUS can differentiate the damper (if undermined, for example) is written with a pitchfork on the water.
          And if this worries someone so much, then the CV joints can be put on the example of the 41st "Moskvich" (with their connection to the bridge through the flanges):



          wink
        2. Locksmith
          Locksmith 26 March 2014 13: 51
          +1
          Quote: ramsi
          SHRUS has another serious minus

          I will add that the universal joint bearings are needle-shaped and have a support area several times larger than the balls in the CV joint, because of the impacts, the CV joint quickly crumbles inside, unlike the cross joints, that the CV joint is more comfortable and vibrates less - this is yes, but not so "oak" as required for inexpensive military vehicles.
          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 26 March 2014 14: 42
            +1
            Quote: Locksmith
            I will add that the universal joint bearings are needle-shaped and have a support area several times larger than the balls in the CV joint, because of the impacts, the CV joint quickly crumbles inside, unlike the cross joints, that the CV joint is more comfortable and vibrates less - this is yes, but not so "oak" as required for inexpensive military vehicles.


            I am sure that among the members of the forum there are car owners who drive SUVs and SUVs, incl.
            So on most of these machines installed drives with a constant velocity joint. All these cars drive on our broken roads, and off-road.
            And that very often "grenades" change everything?
            I do not believe.
            The average service life of a constant velocity joint is about 100 thousand km.
            But the cardan joints of the wheel drive, serve much less. At the same time, the axle bearings also break down. Noise and vibration simply depresses.
            1. wanderer_032
              wanderer_032 26 March 2014 14: 55
              0
              I want to add that I did not notice that the owners of 9-current, 10-current, etc. front-wheel drives would generally be soared about CV joints.
              They ride until they even begin to crack in a straight line.
              And at the same time, for some reason, almost with foam at the mouth, several people are already trying to shove the idea that the SHRUS is unreliable, and cardan joints are the pinnacle of reliability and technical excellence.
              1. ramsi
                ramsi 26 March 2014 16: 24
                0
                Judging by the suspension levers, the wheel moves up and down in an arc - and in this case SHRUS will have no advantage; as for turning the front axles, I would like once again to pay attention to replacing the drive axles with a chain drive, with turning exclusively in a tank
                1. wanderer_032
                  wanderer_032 26 March 2014 18: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: ramsi
                  once again I would like to draw attention to the replacement of the drive axles with a chain drive, with a turn exclusively in the tank


                  Where have you seen an armored personnel carrier weighing 15-20 tons with chain drives of driving wheels?
                  This is utter nonsense. Chains tend to stretch and therefore are not suitable for drive mechanisms of drive wheels.
                  Hydro-volumetric transmission is better as on the BTR-90 or electric transmission.
                  A chain from the evil one.

                  Turns "on the tank" will simply gobble up the tires on the wheels.
                  This problem can be solved in another way, simply enter separate control of the brakes on the port and starboard (as they do on wheeled tractors), put paired pedals with a retractable jumper. The locks in the differs of the bridges make forced inclusion, and not self-locking as they are now.

                  Thus, the machine will be able to turn with a reduced radius (which is important in the conditions of the nas.point).
                  1. ramsi
                    ramsi 26 March 2014 19: 48
                    0
                    Quote: wanderer_032


                    Where have you seen an armored personnel carrier weighing 15-20 tons with chain drives of driving wheels?
                    This is utter nonsense. Chains tend to stretch and therefore are not suitable for drive mechanisms of drive wheels.
                    Hydro-volumetric transmission is better as on the BTR-90 or electric transmission.
                    A chain from the evil one.

                    Turns "on the tank" will simply gobble up the tires on the wheels.
                    This problem can be solved in another way, simply enter separate control of the brakes on the port and starboard (as they do on wheeled tractors), put paired pedals with a retractable jumper. The locks in the differs of the bridges make forced inclusion, and not self-locking as they are now.

                    Thus, the machine will be able to turn with a reduced radius (which is important in the conditions of the nas.point).


                    Yes, tank tracks do not seem to stretch too much ... Okay, then cardan joints along the sides through the simplest angle gearboxes to the wheels. But all this "garden" is needed for two boxes, so as not to slow down, but to change the speed smoothly; and if it is absolutely impossible with the variator, then make a strong-willed decision to switch to an electric transmission
                    1. wanderer_032
                      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 20: 17
                      0
                      Modernization requires a minimum of design changes.
                      Otherwise, it’s easier to start designing a new armored personnel carrier.
                      I only suggest upgrading the drivetrain for existing armored personnel carriers, and not building a new one.
            2. Alekseev
              Alekseev 26 March 2014 18: 53
              0
              Quote: wanderer_032
              But the cardan joints of the wheel drive, serve much less. At the same time, the axle bearings also break down. Noise and vibration simply depresses.

              And where are used in ordinary cars hinges of unequal angular speeds (cardan) for wheel drive?
              CV joints seem to be for driving the front, steerable wheels, but from the gearbox (RK) to the axles, as a rule, ordinary "cardan shafts", and noise and vibration can depress only in case of malfunctions (broken, imbalance)
              It seems to me that the point here is in strength characteristics. It is not for nothing that most even passenger cars have more powerful and more classic drive wheels.
              1. wanderer_032
                wanderer_032 26 March 2014 19: 41
                0
                A typical transmission of modern SUVs with all-wheel drive and independent suspension of all wheels:




                Pay attention to the drives coming from the axle gears to the wheels.
                And what do we see there?
                Really drive shafts with a constant velocity joint?
                Well, who would have thought. laughing
                1. family tree
                  family tree 27 March 2014 01: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: Alekseev
                  And where in ordinary cars are used hinges of unequal angular speeds (cardan) for wheel drive?

                  It was like this, at the end of the last century. The car is called LuAZ. On the pivot pins of the front wheels of the cross. And on his compatriot ZAZ, the backs were spinning like that laughing
                  Quote: wanderer_032
                  A typical transmission of modern SUVs with all-wheel drive and independent suspension of all wheels:
                  Pay attention to the drives coming from the axle gears to the wheels.
                  And what do we see there?

                  A typical answer to your question. We see there
                  CV joints seem to be for driving the front, steerable wheels, but from the gearbox (RK) to the axles, as a rule, ordinary "cardan shafts
                  and CV joints on wheel drives from the rear axle gearbox, the latter, however, is not typical.
                  And, at the expense of cardans, they are simply cheaper and easier to manufacture, although use them at taxiing, well, nafig it. Not only do they only work normally in pairs, it is necessary that the angles of this pair are the same.
  7. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 26 March 2014 10: 32
    +5
    Native armor rescued, and warmed, and transported and took out the last time. One "armor" received two through holes and remained on the move, the crew was not injured.
    Of course, it is necessary to modernize production and facilitate the work of the glorious workers of Arzamas, their products have recently fought more than anyone and saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.
    We are waiting for the receiver, I hope the same glorious and reliable.
  8. Yurgens
    Yurgens 26 March 2014 10: 47
    +2
    Regarding the mechanization of production. Not that technique. to automate, the simpler the better. Than? no need to run, if something happens, look for a replacement for a failed pneumatic wrench, a shovel factory, imagine what you need to do to replace one wrench. a simple minimum of 1 hour, then the factory is loaded, think 100 percent?) Hardly. I was there, of course, a huge plant, it works 50 percent or less. Regarding the laying of pipelines and everything else, find better) who was an intelligent mechanic in the armored vehicle will understand where, what and when.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 11: 23
      +1
      I do not agree, here we have such tools on the basis and they greatly facilitate our work during the planned TO-2.
      Modern pneumatic tools are very reliable in operation (if you take the normal ones, and not any horrible .. certainly).
  9. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 26 March 2014 13: 16
    +2
    Well, let's start with the fact that the BTR-82A is a highly modernized version of the BTR-80, or rather its version of the BTR-80A with a 30-mm cannon, created back in 1986, which continued the line of Soviet armored vehicles: BTR-60PB, BTR-70. For its time, the BTR-80 was an excellent fairly cheap car, fully meeting the requirements, at the level of the German "Fuchs", the French VAB, the Spanish BMR-600, the Swiss "Pirana", and in many respects surpassing them. However, a little time passed and the above machines began to appear: "Stryker", "Boxer", "Pandur-2", "Pirana-5", which are no longer armored personnel carriers, but rather "wheeled infantry fighting vehicles" and against their background even armored personnel carriers- 82A, not to mention the BTR-80, looks somehow different. Well, they are developing a new "Boomerang", they threaten to show it to the public next year. But how much time will still pass before bringing it to a series, eliminating "childhood diseases", etc. etc. Therefore, I believe that it was necessary to adopt the BTR-90, which would just be a transitional stage from the BTR-80 to the Boomerang, having the BTR-80 layout and much stronger weapons, especially the Berezhok. Moreover, on its basis it was possible to create a family of other machines. But as the saying goes: "the damned furniture maker reached out ...". So it remains for our motorized infantry to ride on the armor of the BTR-80, especially since the adoption of the BTR-82A is also not shaky, not roll.

    BTR-90 with "Berezhk"
    1. Maxim90
      Maxim90 26 March 2014 18: 50
      +1
      THIS Serdyukov did not accept BTR90, Serdyukov bastard
      1. Saburov
        Saburov 26 March 2014 19: 46
        0
        Serdyukov didn’t accept this, but the BTR-90’s usual shortcomings, and there were three of the most important ones, a high silhouette, poor visibility and visual comfort of the driver, excessive armament (although this may be the case for marines) that can affect maintainability, lack of landing the assault on the back (this is the nit-picking of our tactics from the RF Ministry of Defense), a lot of weight and the rest on trifles, there was an experimental batch in the RF VV six months later, there were a lot of serious complaints and a refusal to use this technique.
  10. Gray 43
    Gray 43 26 March 2014 13: 25
    +3
    One of the most warring types of armored vehicles on the territory of the former Soviet Union and not only, but I don’t know about the engine, but the Yaroslavl engines are considered to be more high-torque and unpretentious than the KAMAZ engines. I hope that the descendants of the legendary 80s will be equipped with more powerful and economical power units, which will increase the security of the entire machine.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 March 2014 14: 07
      0
      In general, I would put this one (YaMZ-650-10), in the "base" it produces 412 hp, but a new gearbox and RK must be done for it.

  11. sv68
    sv68 26 March 2014 14: 01
    +2
    Thanks for the article, I liked it
  12. Andrey SPB
    Andrey SPB 26 March 2014 20: 41
    +1
    Cool little article, and how many emotions it causes ... and I, including !!
  13. tundra
    tundra 27 March 2014 00: 27
    +1
    Minuses instructed I know who ... Offended by offenders .... so you do not collect the car and .... death to the driver .... so you first collect ... the premier gray and pride .... and shove your trophy myself in the ass ...... and fag .... sy ...... 30- years of experience of them 15- almost long-range. And let someone tell me from Chelnynsky that the Tatar Machine will BATTER the MANTIOR TORCH head. And you are proud of nothing and nothing ... The biggest punishment for a carrier ... transfer to Kamazyuk .... and people leave ..... well, and who are you after that .....? ?????
  14. tundra
    tundra 29 March 2014 11: 32
    0
    Well Well, again, a minus for KAMAZ (I write with a small letter) KAMAZ is not a car, but yo ... sheh ... put minuses most likely yo ... bk, like managers who sucked. Salvage, after all, and suddenly, God forbid ... decks will be lost. Anyone and anytime, ask any driver on the road .. you would change the kamazik to DAF, VOLVO, MAN, SCAN, MERS, MAN, Renault, etc. At least a finger will be twisted around the temple. And they say .... here the variations of our rich Russian language are endless. So sit the guys from the boats and eat state subsidies until s..ki do not choke and do not try to make patriots of yourself. As you were goats ... since the 43rd year, so you remained them laughing
    1. BOB48
      BOB48 April 1 2014 12: 13
      0
      I agree!!! this is the same as with the pelvis - where the subsidies - there is cut and nothing good !!!
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 8 January 2018 04: 08
        0
        Our problem is not in subsidies, but in the "development" of the budget. sad