Military Review

9 March 1714. Peter I issued a decree prohibiting the assignment of officer ranks to nobles who did not serve as privates.

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9 March 1714. Peter I issued a decree prohibiting the assignment of officer ranks to nobles who did not serve as privates. 9 March 1714. Tsar Peter I Alekseevich issued a decree that prohibited the nobles who did not serve as privates from serving as officers. In 1720, Peter I issued a decree that instructed ober officers who are not from noblemen to issue patents for noble dignity and consider their children and all their offspring to be nobles.


Thus, Petr Alekseevich solved two important problems at once. First, the nobility retained its function of the military class, which was to devote a significant part of its life to military service. At the same time, Peter solved the important task of educating the morale of the officer corps. All future officers had to begin service with ordinary soldiers, this gave them a great military experience and understanding of military service. It was a blow to the notion that noblemen should immediately occupy senior positions simply because of their origin.

Secondly, Peter kept the possibility of renewing the nobility, the influx of "fresh blood." The noble rank retained its high status, but the achievement of a noble rank by service was open. Personally, the king appointed high commanders and dignitaries, as nobles born in this rank, and acquired his service. Suffice it to recall the talented cavalry commander, associate and favorite Peter I, field marshal general, the first governor-general of St. Petersburg, Alexander Danilovich Menshikov. He was successively Peter’s batman, scorer, sergeant and lieutenant.

Peter can be treated differently. Man he was versatile. I broke a lot of wood, made mistakes. Suffice it to recall the Most Sustained, Most Intense, and Extravagant Cathedral that he created. But his attitude towards military service causes respect. Peter Alekseevich from a young age studied military art, began his service as a drummer in the Preobrazhensky regiment, a simple soldier. Carefully mastered the service scorer (gunner). At the same time, Peter diligently studied naval affairs, military construction. Only after the capture of Azov did the king put on the uniform of an infantry officer (captain). A non-commissioned officer of the Guard became in 1700 year. At the same time, the king did not disdain any work, was both a carpenter and a blacksmith, well mastered several crafts. By this he set an example to the whole nobility. Having met young nobles who had returned from training in Western Europe once, the sovereign told them: “I am your king, but I have corns on my hands. And all in order to set an example for you, and at least in old age make you worthy assistants and faithful servants of the Fatherland. ”

For the king, the main thing was not the origin of man, but his personal qualities, skill, determination and courage. For good service, ordinary soldiers were encouraged, for courage and skill could be made to officers. The sovereign put high military service. “The military charter” asks the question: “What is a soldier?” And answers it as follows: “The name of the soldier contains all the people who are in the army. From the highest general, even to the last musketeer, equestrian, or on foot. " The composition of the regimental vessels were to include not only headquarters, ober- and non-commissioned officers, but soldiers. Both officers and soldiers had the right to a free and decisive vote. Peter forbade officers to take privates into the service, except for batmen. However, the orderlies could be taken in limited quantities, and they were not considered servile servants. They could not be treated cruelly. The officer in charge of the officers carried out various functions — he was the entrusted officer, the officer, the guard, took care of the officer's life, baggage, etc. Usually they were taken from the less capable lower ranks.

The Peter system, aimed at the formation of a warrior class, from his early years familiar with military service and knowing all the subtleties of military affairs, led to brilliant results. Already under Peter Alekseevich, the Russian army surpassed in the art of war one of the most advanced armies in Western Europe - the Swedish. The Russian armed forces surpassed the Swedish forces in all directions: they defeated them in a series of battles, including the general battle, the Poltava battle, took their most important fortresses in the Baltic States, and learned how to beat the sea. Later, the army created by Peter brilliantly crushed the Persians, the Crimean-Turkish hordes, the Prussians and the French.

During the Seven Years' War at the Battle of Zorndorf, the Russian army was stopped by the fearsome Prussian troops of Frederick the Great. The Russian infantry in this battle showed amazing stamina. Participant of this battle, A.T. Bolotov, described one of the stages of this battle in this way: “In groups, in small groups, after shooting their last bullets, they remained firm as a rock. Many, pierced through and through, continued to stand and fight ... ”. And the Prussian king Frederick, summing up the battle, said that Russian soldiers "... can be killed rather than won." The Prussians simply refused to go on the attack, having tried Russian bayonets. In the Battle of Kunersdorf, the Russians completely crushed the Prussian army, which was then considered the best in Europe. Then the Russian troops took Berlin and Königsberg, the most important centers of Prussia. Only the betrayal of the national interests of Russia by Petersburg did not make Königsberg Russian in the XVIII century.

The Russian troops under the command of Rumyantsev and Suvorov simply swept away the Crimean-Turkish hordes from their path. Brilliant victories in Larga and Kagul, the assaults of Ochakov, Ishmael and Anapa forever entered the Russian military chronicle. The Russian fleet under the command of Ushakov made the Black Sea the “Russian lake”. The Italian and Swiss campaigns of Suvorov showed Europe that the Russian soldiers were able to beat the new “star” of the European arena - the French army. In the future, the Russian army will be able to withstand the blow of Napoleon’s “Great Army” —in fact, this will be the “all-European army”, which will be commanded by a cohort of the best French and European commanders. However, almost all of this army will be buried in the open spaces of Russia. Russian warriors will stand adamantly in the battle of Borodino, the European hordes will chase and liberate Berlin, and then Paris. Russian warriors will annex the North and South Caucasus to Russia, defeating the Ottomans, Persians, and Highlanders.

Tsar Peter destroyed the remnants of parochialism. So called the order of distribution of official places, taking into account the origin and official position of ancestors of a nobleman (boyar). Ivan the Terrible fought against this misfortune. A nobleman under Peter Alekseevich, if he did not serve the sovereign's service - 7 years in military service or 10 years in civilian life, until his old age was considered “underage”, that is, a nobleman who did not enter public service. Those nobles who dodged military parades were deprived of estates. As a result, restored the original essence of the existence of the nobility. Nobles were supposed to protect the Fatherland, shed blood, give their best years of service. For this they received the right to the estate. Under Peter, the service of a hereditary nobleman could, to old age, be held as part of privates and non-commissioned officers. This was especially true of the illiterate nobles and landless nobles, single-palaces.

For long historical era it was a fair system. Russia-Russia fought its entire history. There were almost no peaceful years. The entire population, estates and social groups carried "service". The meaning of the existence of the nobles was the defense of the Fatherland. They were soldiers of Russia, and the tsar was their general, supreme commander.

If a nobleman stopped his service for any reason, the estate was seized. The widow of the deceased warrior had the right to a part of the estate sufficient to feed her (this part was called “oprich” - “except”). If the children of the deceased (deceased) nobleman didn’t get into combat by the 15 years, the estate was taken in favor of the state. True, it did not stop everyone. Those who did not want to serve could enroll in other classes - merchants or even peasants. There were even cases of falling nobles in the serfs. Thus, in pre-Petrine times, decrees were issued forbidding nobles to go to slaves.

Unfortunately, with other rulers, this system began to collapse. After the death of Peter Alekseevich, the nobles began to receive one privilege after another. In 1736, Anna Ioannovna limited their service to 25 for years. In 1746, Elizabeth forbade all classes, except the nobles, to buy land and peasants. Peter III in general freed the nobility from compulsory service - the “Manifesto on the Freedom of the Nobility” from February 18 of the year 1762. Catherine II will confirm this manifesto and further expand the rights of the nobility. At the same time, the nobility fully retained their former privileges and constantly increased their number. The nobility turned into a closed privileged caste. They could even leave Russia and live most of their lives in Western Europe. Moreover, they got the right to enter the foreign service. From now on, for a significant part of the Russian “elite”, France, England, Italy and Germany will become much more interesting and nicer than “this” Russia. They will squander huge amounts of money in European cities, which will be pumped out of the peasantry, Russia. In fact, part of the nobility will be overt parasites.

In the same period, serfdom received its classic appearance. Nobles received the right to freely dispose of their lands, regardless of whether they served. Nobles received the right to transfer peasants from one county to another, bureaucratic obstacles were strengthened, which prevented the transfer of peasants to the ranks of merchants.

Under the dominance of Western culture, when German became the native language for the nobles, then French and English, a huge gulf appeared between the nobles and the peasantry. In the Russian Empire, they created an “alien people”, a foreign body in the Russian people. The first reaction of the people to this injustice was the peasant war of Pugachev. Subsequently, the controversy was not resolved and served as one of the most important prerequisites for the 1917 Revolution of the Year.

It should be noted that the obscene Paul, who was spat upon, turned into a fool, was well aware of this problem. It was the sovereign-knight who tried to restore justice, return to the correct system, discipline the nobility, and facilitate the existence of the peasantry. However, his attempt to regain the ideals of chivalry, restoring the true meaning of the existence of the nobility and the challenge of Britain, led to a conspiracy. The traitors-nobles, with the organizational support of the British, killed the Russian tsar. And then blackened his name by creating an image of a jester on the throne.

The destruction of the system introduced by Peter gradually led to a weakening of Russia's military might, especially for the generals. Careerists, performers, sons of aristocrats and generals began to become generals. “Militancy” began to leave the army - decisiveness and initiative. Many “peacetime” generals appeared who served well in peacetime, but could not lead the troops to victory during the war. The result was deplorable - defeat in the Eastern War, numerous mistakes and unnecessary casualties in the 1877-1878 campaign, defeat from Japan and the catastrophe of the First World War and the 1917 Revolution of the year.

It should be noted that during the Eastern (Crimean) War, the Russian-Turkish war 1877-1878. and World War I, Russian troops fought best on the Caucasian front. In the Caucasus, Russian troops were in constant readiness, at any time could start a war with the Turks, mountaineers or Persians. There was no place for servicemen and careerists, in the Caucasus there were real combat officers.
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  1. avt
    avt 9 March 2014 09: 36
    +13
    request By a volitional decision, he returned what was originally, namely, the nobles appeared as a class precisely due to the fact that they received "state service" in the form of peasants feeding them, in the literal sense, which is generally characteristic of all the then state formations. Well, over time the class of service people begins to spin their heads and they decide that, in comparison with others, God lay down to rest on them and the "seal" and the seal of the chosenness remained. We can all see this even from the current "elite", which since the 90s has been stocking up with all sorts of letters about its "noble" origin - the Chekists gave free rein to the swindlers, having their own tambourine interest and at the same hour they flooded from the common swamp, throwing off their bast shoes , "gentlemen" "So from time to time all of them, according to Batzka's apt remark, need to be" fucked. "What Stalin did in a rather extreme version, rightly arguing that with the construction of socialism the class struggle only intensifies. So Petrushin's decree within the meaning is true and correct, here I agree with the author. "Social lift" is vital for ANY state, because its absence and improper execution within the ideology of the state leads not just to the creation of a class of parasites, but to the degeneration of the class into a caste with the subsequent degenerative degeneration of this caste and paralysis of the state from almost any external threat, which the Russian Empire fully knew in 1917. And the most striking example is India, where the caste system of power is simply being broken.
    1. Mainbeam
      Mainbeam 9 March 2014 10: 52
      +7
      Quote: avt
      for its absence and improper execution within the framework of the ideology of the state, leads not only to the creation of a class of parasites


      Yes, an ideal option if deputies and ministers would be people who served in the army, and even more so officers, who rose from the rank and file. And then the oligarchic structure of the state would end. Dream...

      And as an example of GDP and DAM, one served, the other did not.
      1. avt
        avt 9 March 2014 11: 18
        +4
        Quote: MainBeam
        Yes, it’s ideal if deputies and ministers were people who served in the army,

        But this is just a mechanism, by the way, in the USSR, they did not take to certain structures after institutes, it was required, having received a higher education, from serving a year in the army and not in officer positions. BUT in the absence of a socially oriented ideology, the elite "quickly pupates and degenerates into a" ruling class "with limited access to its ranks and degenerates. The mechanism works only under the observance of the laws established by the way by the government itself. As soon as a caste of "untouchable" appears, it spreads to the entire "elite" and immediately - "on the firewood, start over." Further, see the events of 1917. request The spiral of history, however, is only to guess what a new round is preparing for us - farce or tragedy.
        1. Mainbeam
          Mainbeam 9 March 2014 12: 12
          +2
          in certain structures were not taken after institutions.

          And some structures simply did not take those who did not serve in the army. So after all, it was just advisable, well, justified. But on this side, a big plus becomes a big minus - a cohesive and single organism pupates faster.

          BUT in the absence of a socially oriented ideology

          I suppose that the un-served became the element from which the decay began. And if this institution is cut off, maybe the "recovery" will begin?

          Again we come to the fact that there is not enough strong hand.
        2. corn
          corn 9 March 2014 17: 12
          0
          avt
          Quote
          "... by the way, in the USSR, they did not take to certain structures after institutes, it was required, having received a higher education, from serving a year in the army and not in officer positions."
          In more detail, you can: In which structures did not take the citizens of the USSR successfully graduated from a military department?
      2. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 9 March 2014 14: 38
        +3
        From now on, for a significant part of the Russian "elite", France, England, Italy and Germany will become much more interesting and sweeter than "this" Russia. They will spend huge amounts of money in European cities that will be pumped out of the peasantry, Russia. In fact, part of the nobility will become outright parasites. (from article)


        And the past situation with "parasite nobles" who squandered huge money siphoned from Russia in European cities does not remind me of the current one, when oligarchs, officials, parasites commit the same criminal acts: they squander the stolen and stolen Russian money, only on an even greater scale, they have real estate abroad, they teach children there, football clubs bought with Russian money, yachts and airplanes, and in fact become the "elite" of foreign states, defending the interests of these states in Russia, i.e. comprador bourgeois.
        The situation led to the revolutions of 1917, and to the current Ukrainian events.
        It is necessary to change the current Russian order, to call on the "elite" of Russia to order and legality, until this cursed "elite" has brought Russia to collapse.
      3. Mstislav
        Mstislav 10 March 2014 20: 23
        +1
        He served, but not in the army, but in a deep drilling office. And these are different things.
  2. calocha
    calocha 9 March 2014 09: 48
    +10
    Stalin correctly did what he set up SITO ... The fifth column creates fertile ground for all sorts of revolutions, because I think this column needs to be clearly worked ... And we are doomed to come to this or the Future-NO !!!!
    1. Name
      Name 9 March 2014 10: 46
      +6
      Quote: calocha
      .. The fifth column creates fertile ground for all sorts of Revolutions, because I think this column needs to be clearly worked out ..

      We need a decree to guide liberals to work for the benefit of Russia, so much undeveloped in the vastness of our homeland:
      1. philip
        philip 9 March 2014 12: 05
        0
        I do not agree. Firstly, bonded labor is not effective, and secondly, it’s dangerous to trust a shovel in their hands.
        1. calocha
          calocha 9 March 2014 21: 49
          +1
          Tell the Americans this ... They all work in the jail ..... Do not tell anyone tales about a shovel ... If you don’t tell taiga for hundreds of kilometers, it doesn’t matter what you have in your hands ... even if it’s an automatic machine, the owner is a bear in the taiga .
        2. Nuar
          Nuar 10 March 2014 10: 53
          +1
          Quote: Philip
          I do not agree. Firstly, bonded labor is not effective, and secondly, it’s dangerous to trust a shovel in their hands.

          bonded labor is not effective - hmm, but even so, liberals need to be isolated anyway, so that at least they do no harm.

          And by the way, and now they are working?

          Quote: calocha
          in the taiga, the bear is the master.
          In, in. They say he even climbed on the coat of arms of United Russia repeat
        3. JIaIIoTb
          JIaIIoTb 11 March 2014 09: 25
          0
          It is not a liberal labor efficiency, it is an educational effect.
          Moreover, letting go of work only in the case of understanding their mistakes.
          He doesn’t want to understand, let him wave to Kyle to death.
      2. does it
        does it 10 March 2014 10: 19
        +1
        Quote: name
        We need a decree to guide liberals to work for the benefit of Russia, so much undeveloped in the vastness of our homeland:

        They work in the State Duma anyway.
  3. evgeni21
    evgeni21 9 March 2014 09: 48
    +8
    Peter 1 looked to the future, did the right thing that the nobles forced the rank and file to start, in the right direction, that is, we have such cunning parasites are a dime a dozen.
    1. platitsyn70
      platitsyn70 9 March 2014 10: 02
      +4
      under Peter 1, they also stole and sold their homeland, and he took off the fight and we must go along with the great historical statesmen, and we need to re-cut the window to Europe.
      1. woron333444
        woron333444 9 March 2014 11: 17
        +5
        Alexander Menshikov stole, Peter beat him, but did not remove him from his posts, he was friends
    2. zeleznijdorojnik
      zeleznijdorojnik 9 March 2014 11: 20
      +1
      Eugene should not be confused with the then ordinary Petrovsky GUARD, where the nobles began their service with the usual regiments.
  4. Dikson
    Dikson 9 March 2014 09: 49
    +14
    And it would be nice to return the fad "Didn't you serve in the army? - you won't get a high state position!"
    1. woron333444
      woron333444 9 March 2014 11: 18
      +2
      And it’s better not to serve in the army - you can’t drive a car until you are 40 years old.
    2. MORDVIN13rus
      MORDVIN13rus 9 March 2014 12: 34
      +2
      Keep! good When I was in my service, there was an Ingush crew in our team, to the question: Why did I join the army? He answered that he would settle in for good work later. In some republics of the Caucasus, this principle is being rewarded, but what about the rest ... ???
  5. Terminator
    Terminator 9 March 2014 09: 49
    +5
    We have a social elevator! Have you seen with what pride the lieutenant of the reserve is wearing the shoulder straps of the army general and the post of Minister of Defense?
    1. corn
      corn 9 March 2014 17: 19
      +1
      A small clarification is the senior lieutenant of the reserve (Plato is my friend, but the truth is more expensive).
      1. zeleznijdorojnik
        zeleznijdorojnik 10 March 2014 00: 37
        +1
        The main thing is more useful from him than from the previous mu-ring with four stars (I’m talking about Makarov).
        1. Mstislav
          Mstislav 10 March 2014 20: 34
          0
          So he is a builder by profession, and now let him re-build the army, hold the flag in his hands!
          And then these feldmebeli, headed by their chief commanders, all collapsed to the ground. I served in Primorye as a young man, so ONE remained from 7 regiments of front-line aviation, how can I protect something with one regiment?
  6. zeleznijdorojnik
    zeleznijdorojnik 9 March 2014 09: 59
    +6
    The destruction of the system that Peter introduced gradually led to a weakening of Russia's military power, especially the generals. Careerists, performers, sons of aristocrats and generals began to become generals.
    And before the destruction of this, in the opinion of the author, was not it ??? Our people are a cunning people. And if to become an officer you need to serve as a soldier - they served: they enrolled in a regiment, often before their own birth and by 16-17 years of service they just became ensigns ... Read the classics - the same "Captain's Daughter" - program, I remember the 5th grade. ..
    1. creak
      creak 9 March 2014 10: 45
      +2
      And before the destruction of the regular army in Russia, there was virtually no - it was started by the father of Peter I, Alexei Mikhailovich (regiments of the soldier's system), and his work was continued and developed by Peter. And childhoods were recorded after Peter, this was the destruction of the Peter's system, which Paul tried to revive ... This mess with the passage of the service reached its peak under Matushka Eaterina and her son Paul tried to stop it, which he did not forgive completely unbelted guards who overthrew and enthroned Empresses Elizabeth, Catherine) ... In "The Captain's Daughter" events take place in the Catherine's era, that is, after Peter. So the author is right and it is necessary to read not only the classics from the 1th grade program, but anything more serious, then there will be no temptation to try to refute the obvious things.
      1. zeleznijdorojnik
        zeleznijdorojnik 9 March 2014 11: 26
        +1
        The mess was also with Mother Elizabeth - the same Suvorov Alexander Vasilievich began ALREADY as a corporal of the guards regiment (an analogue of the ensign in the line regiment), that is, read as an officer. In general, there was only one field marshal in the Russian army, who had recruited from the rank and file - Prince Dolgoruky-Krymsky - during the time of Peter the Second, their entire family was dispersed by links, and they shaved him into soldiers. He became an officer honestly - he was awarded the title for being the first to climb the walls of the Or-Kapu (Perekop) fortress in the Minikhov campaigns, and then - in Elizabethan times, the family was more or less forgiven and he went up the career ladder very quickly, the only - until old age was famous for illiteracy - did not know how to write.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. erg
      erg 9 March 2014 18: 18
      0
      The system of recording the children of the nobility in the regiments at a young age, was designed to improve the officers of the army. Since the officer required a certain level of education. In the absence of military schools, this was decided as follows: up to a certain age, the son was brought up at home, receiving an education. A list of disciplines was determined, which he had to study. A special reviewer was appointed, who supervised the learning process. Upon reaching a certain age, knowledge was tested, a rank was assigned, usually from the category of lower ranks, and then the young man went to the regiment to study further. (as a rule, there were training teams or similar structures at the regiments, especially in the guard). The Guard, in general, according to the plan of Peter was to become a school of officers. At the same time, service guardsmen could have ranks, but fulfill the duties of ordinary soldiers. But as often happens, the system was introduced, but they did not create proper control. And as a result we got a purely formal result. It is written down on paper in a regiment, undergoing training at home, but in fact - hell knows what the child does in the estate of his parents. And yet, I don’t know how in the time of Peter, but later, the commoner who received the officer rank received only personal nobility. So that it could be inherited, it was necessary to rise to the colonel. Here are the terms for the reign of Alexander 1: 5 years to receive a non-commissioned officer rank, subject to impeccable service. And another 12 years to be able to become an officer. Thus, a quick promotion, for the lower ranks, is only possible in war (then the terms are shorter). In this regard, those who served in the Caucasus were in a better position.
  7. Professor
    Professor 9 March 2014 10: 00
    +3
    I know one army where all the generals (that is, absolutely everyone) began their service as ordinary soldiers.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 9 March 2014 10: 32
      -1
      Quote: Professor
      I know one army where all the generals (that is, absolutely everyone) began their service as ordinary soldiers.

      I sympathize with all those who served nearby ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 9 March 2014 10: 44
        0
        Quote: Boris55
        I sympathize with all those who served nearby ...

        By the fact that the best were chosen for the officer's courses, and from the best officers they became generals? And "those who served next to" were not chosen? wink
    2. Alexanderrr
      Alexanderrr 9 March 2014 10: 50
      0
      It’s good that someone knows something! But I would like specifics, otherwise it is a chatter!
      1. Professor
        Professor 9 March 2014 11: 13
        +5
        Quote: Alexanderrr
        But I would like specifics, otherwise it is a chatter!

        The specifics. There are no military schools in Israel, everyone is called up as a private, they go through KMB, they begin to serve in units and are recommended for officer courses at different stages of the most distinguished ...
        1. Sour
          Sour 9 March 2014 20: 12
          0
          There are no military schools in Israel

          recommend for officer courses ...

          What's the difference?
          Military schools, officer courses ... This is a matter of terminology, nothing more.
          Has everyone been called up by rank and file? A similar system was once in France. And what is its advantage, for example, over the German? Nothing at all.
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 March 2014 10: 12
            +1
            Quote: Sour
            Military schools, officer courses ... This is a matter of terminology, nothing more.

            There is no terminology. They enter VU from the school bench, and fall on officer courses after serving an urgent year for another.
    3. philip
      philip 9 March 2014 11: 59
      0
      I also know this army and I know the promotion mechanism for this minus you.
      1. Professor
        Professor 9 March 2014 13: 42
        0
        Quote: Philip
        I also know this army and I know the promotion mechanism

        Really by doom, nepotism or fraternity?

        Quote: Philip
        on this you minus.

        good
  8. omsbon
    omsbon 9 March 2014 10: 11
    +6
    The scariest example of a modern "elevator" is Mr. N and D a Serdyukov (better known in the army under the nickname - stool.)
    1. Mainbeam
      Mainbeam 9 March 2014 11: 01
      0
      He just got married well. He has no real merits.
  9. Sibiryak13
    Sibiryak13 9 March 2014 10: 14
    +4
    Oh, how the ruler of the scale of Peter the Great or Joseph Vissarionovich is missing now.
    1. woron333444
      woron333444 9 March 2014 11: 22
      +1
      before Peter was the Great Ivan the Terrible. He was called Grozny under Peter, so that there were no two great
  10. Msergeyg
    Msergeyg 9 March 2014 10: 15
    +3
    Peter was an ambiguous man, but he was a great sovereign who sincerely rejoiced for Russia.
  11. siberalt
    siberalt 9 March 2014 10: 33
    +8
    What else do Russia owe to these heroes?

    http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/680/fdnx621.jpg
  12. makeev.dmitry
    makeev.dmitry 9 March 2014 10: 53
    +3
    All Russian outstanding patriotic sovereigns are slandered: Grozny, Pavel, Alexander 3, Stalin. At the same time, people who caused tremendous harm were fanned by a halo of holiness. So I’m thinking: maybe the rumors about Peter’s drunkenness and cruelty are also greatly exaggerated? Well, an alcoholic cannot be so perspicacious and active.
  13. parus2nik
    parus2nik 9 March 2014 10: 55
    +1
    But now nepotism is blooming .. they are fools, but devotees ..
  14. starhina01
    starhina01 9 March 2014 10: 56
    +1
    a person after whose power the Russian state is growing stronger and territorially increasing deserves respect and the title of Great Ruler.
  15. Sma11
    Sma11 9 March 2014 11: 03
    +1
    Learn military affairs in this way. (V.I. Lenin)
    In the recent past. When he served under a contract. In one of the disputes, during a sabantuichik, with a young lieutenant - a former graduate of the school, I threw out the phrase that he was not yet an officer and he was given a rank for growth, for the future, so that he would learn to become an officer. Saliva and snot were belly. Threatened from "put on the lip" to "shoot s.ku". Three years later, though "under the best", he has already admitted that I was right.
  16. chenia
    chenia 9 March 2014 11: 05
    0
    Quote: Professor
    I know one army where all the generals (that is, absolutely everyone) began their service as ordinary soldiers.


    You will be surprised, but so in almost all the armies of the world. And the same Serdyukov was also ordinary (another matter how much time).
    1. Professor
      Professor 9 March 2014 11: 14
      +1
      Quote: chenia
      You will be surprised, but so in almost all the armies of the world. And the same Serdyukov was also ordinary (another matter how much time).

      "was a private" and "he served in the military service with the rank of private" - two big differences.
  17. kim. 230752
    kim. 230752 9 March 2014 11: 10
    +2
    Quote: Terminator
    We have a social elevator! Have you seen with what pride the lieutenant of the reserve is wearing the shoulder straps of the army general and the post of Minister of Defense?


    And in order to carry the rank of army general you need to win the battle (as it was written earlier), and for the right to wear the Hero star you need to show personal courage (the provision on the rank of Hero). And what did he win and where did he show ???
  18. predator.3
    predator.3 9 March 2014 11: 21
    +1
    Under the dominance of Western culture, when German, then French and English, became the mother tongue for the nobles, a huge gap arose between the nobles and the peasantry. In the Russian Empire they created a “alien people”, a foreign body on the Russian people.


    Today all this is repeated, in the 90s "enterprising" fathers (more precisely, brothers) privatized the main industrial enterprises, families live in Landon and the offspring-heirs study there, that is. Russia for them as a source of income, and in fifteen years for the grandchildren England and the Cote d'Azur will become their homeland, and Russia? Right! - a cash cow and a country of cattle!
  19. andrey903
    andrey903 9 March 2014 11: 34
    0
    Serdyukov, who is he?
  20. Tanysh
    Tanysh 9 March 2014 11: 39
    0
    The article quotes from the charter of Peter the Great. "What is a soldier?" And he answers it as follows: “The name of the soldier contains all the people who are the essence of the army. From the highest general, even to the last musketeer, horse, or on foot ” this is the essence of the fortress of the army, and the education of men. I have heard this phrase more than once from my grandfathers and great-grandfathers, who have gone through more than one war since the First World War. we can only keep the system! And do not let the name of the soldier of Russia.
  21. Arh
    Arh 9 March 2014 11: 41
    0
    My grandfather’s great-grandfather served in the tsarist army for 25 years (then the story is silent) !!! ***
  22. chenia
    chenia 9 March 2014 11: 51
    0
    Quote: Professor
    was a private "and" served in the military service with the rank of private "- two big differences.


    Generally agree. Well, what if he entered the VU from a citizen, and without urgent?
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 9 March 2014 12: 50
      0
      Quote: chenia
      Generally agree. Well, what if he entered the VU from a citizen, and without urgent?

      And without an urgent one, he should start the service from the post of division commander. And all the same, he should stay in the soldier's clothing, only this way he will reach
    2. Professor
      Professor 9 March 2014 13: 40
      +1
      Quote: chenia
      Generally agree. Well, what if he entered the VU from a citizen, and without urgent?

      Then how does he know what the soldiers live and breathe?
  23. Metlik
    Metlik 9 March 2014 12: 36
    +2
    The whole story from Rome to the present day is an example of the fact that the oligarchs are parasites that kill their country.
  24. Tron
    Tron 9 March 2014 15: 12
    0
    An excellent system for training officers was in the German Wehrmacht.
    More details here http://www.saper.etel.ru/rang/wermaxt-6.html
    It is a pity that in CA this was not taken as a basis.
  25. chenia
    chenia 9 March 2014 15: 35
    0
    Quote: Professor
    And without an urgent one, he should start the service from the post of division commander. And all the same, he should stay in the soldier's clothing, only this way he will reach


    Quote: Professor
    Then how does he know what the soldiers live and breathe?


    Clearly, you judge what you are talking about and have no idea. WU is the Army, ideally, and not two, but four to five years. Only there was a real military collective, with the maintenance of the true traditions of the military fraternity.

    In the troops separated by different years of conscription, it is very difficult to have this (more often only an extreme need — direct combat operations — allows this form of relationship to arise).

    You will be surprised, but officers from former soldiers in this regard are inferior to those who came to high school after school. Moreover, both professionally and as educators and commanders.
    1. Professor
      Professor 9 March 2014 15: 53
      0
      Quote: chenia
      Clearly, you judge what you are talking about and have no idea

      Well, how do I have an idea? Just commanded a couple of sailors in a past life ... laughing

      Quote: chenia
      WU is the Army ideally,

      And I tell you about the army in reality, and not ideally. A graduate of VU received a platoon at the beginning. He possessed the necessary qualities or not, this is the third matter.

      Quote: chenia
      Only there was a real military collective, with the maintenance of the true traditions of the military fraternity.

      There was no real military team there, at most a military boarding school with accommodation. In the same Tsakhal, those who sniffed gunpowder were sent to officer courses, put a shoulder to a comrade at the right moment, and in general enjoyed authority among colleagues and respect among commanders.

      Quote: chenia
      In the troops separated by different years of conscription, it is very difficult to have this

      Not all armies have hazing, but there are armies where "non-statutory" is exposed and punished mercilessly for it.

      Quote: chenia
      You will be surprised, but officers from former soldiers in this regard are inferior to those who came to high school after school. Moreover, both professionally and as educators and commanders.

      Surprised by the absurdity. A fired soldier who has become an officer is inferior to a former student who graduated only from VU or officer courses? Well, how will this letekha deal with hazing, insolent sergeants, etc.? After all, he has such a great life experience. He can easily say: "Do as I do".

      PS
      Have you forgotten how, upon coming to the unit, the letekhe said: "Forget everything that you were taught in the school"? Why's that? wink
  26. chenia
    chenia 9 March 2014 19: 00
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Well, how do I have an idea? Just commanded a couple of sailors in a past life ...


    Quote: Professor
    And I tell you about the army in reality, and not ideally. A graduate of VU received a platoon at the beginning. He possessed the necessary qualities or not, this is the third matter.


    Here I am, talking about the real army. You compare the cadets with the soldiers (their units) and understand everything (well, you need to know both of them).
    An ideal is what one strives for, obviously it will not be so, but it is necessary.
    The ideal is when the Germans clashed with Podolsk cadets — they said that for the first time (and this is already near Moscow) they fought with a professional army. Well, do not watch a movie from Mikhalkov.

    He received a platoon after four years of study, in intensity significantly superior to training in any linear formation. (not even comparable). As a result of selection from 350-360 people. only 256 reached the release.

    Quote: Professor
    There was no real military team there, at most a military boarding school with accommodation.


    Do you have the right to say so? To do this, at least you need to study at VU for a considerable time, or finish it.

    Quote: Professor
    In the same Tsakhal, those who sniffed gunpowder are sent to officer courses


    And where to collect so much gunpowder, arrange specifically military conflicts, or what? Yes, and you will be surprised, but there is a point in the statutory duties of commanders - to choose worthy candidates for the university. Who is against it?

    Quote: Professor
    The fired soldier who became an officer is inferior to a former school student who has completed only a military school or officer courses?


    It happens in different ways. The courage of a soldier and the courage of a commander are similar, but still different concepts. Well, see above.


    Quote: Professor
    Have you forgotten how, upon coming to the unit, the letekhe said: "Forget everything that you were taught in the school"? Why's that?


    And they told me that I graduated from a classroom school.

    Quote: Professor
    He can easily say: "Do as I do".


    This principle is indisputable.

    After six months of training in higher educational institutions, we professionally caught up with cadets from soldiers who entered the specialized school. True, they were not real soldiers, but in professional terms they were not inferior to them (I'm an artilleryman — not the easiest military specialty). But what about, several departments, an agreed program, teachers in each discipline are mostly majors, lieutenant colonels leading each subject. This is not Vanka platoon (yesterday’s graduate), he is in military service, and OMPZ, and materiel, and physically and combatant and political — you feel the difference.
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2014 10: 09
      0
      Here I am, talking about the real army. You compare the cadets with the soldiers (their units) and understand everything (well, you need to know both of them).

      I know both of them and that’s why I affirm that the green Letech and the soldier who served for one and a half or two years are not comparable and not in favor of the lieutenant.

      The ideal is when the Germans clashed with Podolsk cadets — they said that for the first time (and this is already near Moscow) they fought with a professional army. Well, do not watch a movie from Mikhalkov.

      Urban legend is an urban legend.

      He received a platoon after four years of study, in intensity significantly superior to training in any linear formation. (not even comparable). As a result of selection from 350-360 people. only 256 reached the release.

      This is a selection. Not even 1 to 2. Class. good Do not start your studies, observe discipline and you are an officer and commander. Whether you possess leadership qualities or not is not important. Do you know how many soldiers are assigned to officer courses in Tsahal? At least one in 100 and selection on the courses themselves.

      Do you have the right to say so?

      I have. Swam, we know.

      Yes, and you will be surprised, but there is a point in the statutory duties of commanders - to choose worthy candidates for the university.

      Only now 90% of these candidates go directly to the university from their mother’s skirts. Most of the entrants finish the VU, come to the units and begin. This one had no idea what a real army was, he suddenly wanted a civilian, etc.

      It happens in different ways. The courage of a soldier and the courage of a commander are similar, but still different concepts. Well, see above.

      It's not about courage and courage, but about experience and, once again, experience.

      And they told me that I graduated from a classroom school.

      ... and immediately awarded the extraordinary rank of colonel. (joke) lol
  27. zvp2007
    zvp2007 9 March 2014 20: 42
    +2
    In the Caucasus, Russian troops were in constant readiness; at any moment a war could begin with the Turks, Highlanders or Persians. There was no place for servicemen and careerists; in the Caucasus, real military officers served.

    My great-great-grandfather began his service in the Caucasus as an ordinary soldier and died there as a Russian-Turkish general. I am proud of my ancestor !!!!!
  28. Alekseev
    Alekseev 10 March 2014 08: 03
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Then how does he know what the soldiers live and breathe?

    Under the old Soviet system, life and service in the higher educational institutions did not differ much from the soldier’s. At least in the first, second courses. There was, of course, more order in the school than in some kind of non-staff army regiment.
    Barracks, guards, work, outfits, close communication with soldiers of support units during field practical exercises.
    3 rubles 80 kopecks monetary content.
    Now "debauchery" ... request laughing Education at VVUZ does not look like urgent, even as "humanized" as it is today.
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2014 10: 11
      0
      Quote: Alekseev
      Under the old Soviet system, life and service in the military educational institution did not differ much from the soldier’s.

      Well yes? After hanging up at VU, grandfathers were engaged in raising young animals ...
  29. UrraletZ
    UrraletZ 10 March 2014 10: 16
    0
    It's high time for us to introduce this. A military school is a military school, and a "term" is a "term" ... these are two different types of understanding of service ... officers who served before military schools for a term more understand the soul of an ordinary soldier and are revered by them than those who did not serve a term. ... because they were ordinary fighters ... they should only be allowed into military schools and civilian institutions after military service ... no exceptions ... but this requires massive patriotic propaganda, which is not now available ...
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 10 March 2014 12: 59
      0
      Interestingly, dear "professor", did you see your grandfather himself?
      Quote: UrraletZ
      officers who served a term before military schools more understand the soul of a simple soldier

      If you have a naive opinion that if the commander himself was once subjected to humiliation of cattle (which I myself once "strangled good"), then he will not allow such a thing in his platoon company, then I assure you: you are mistaken. Everything is somewhat more complicated here (a separate topic, it takes a long time to explain, see the materials earlier on this forum)
      I saw more than one officer for the service, to put it mildly, very shitty, who, nevertheless, in the youth years, served in the army. This is not an argument. Yes, and you can serve as a clerk at the military registration and enlistment office (earlier), or you can also urgently need this on Novaya Zemlya.
      The practice of living in a male military team consisting of young guys is important. Cadets at the school, of course, are higher than the soldiers in the SME, but the principle is the same. Yes, and depending on which school ... You can recall, for example, the Baku VOKU. On self-training, the conversation was in 10 languages. yes And the morals were "simpler" wassat
      But in general, the service of ordinary soldiers does not harm the future officer. Peter was rightBut ... you need to serve in such a part, so that this service does not discourage to become a military professional at all ...
      This, unfortunately, is also possible.
      1. Professor
        Professor 10 March 2014 14: 47
        0
        Quote: Alekseev
        Interestingly, dear "professor", did you see your grandfather himself?

        I only saw the dead.

        Quote: Alekseev
        If you have a naive opinion that if the commander himself was once subjected to humiliation of cattle (which I myself once "strangled good"), then he will not allow such a thing in his platoon company, then I assure you: you are mistaken.

        Not about that. The commander who has gone from ordinary to ... to the level under discussion knows firsthand about all the intricacies of the soldiers' service. No school can replace the real experience gained directly in the unit.

        Quote: Alekseev
        Peter was right

        Peter himself did not shy from the experience of a commoner.

        Quote: Alekseev
        But ... it is necessary to serve in such a part that this service does not discourage the desire to become a military professional at all ...

        Well, at the end, we got to the moment of truth. A person who has served in a "such" unit and yet decided to link his fate with the army is worth incomparably more than a graduate of VU who got into a "such" unit.
  30. creak
    creak 10 March 2014 11: 20
    0
    You can argue on this topic indefinitely - there are arguments for and against. I will try to explain with specific examples - Rokossovsky, Zhukov, Gorbatov, Kulik - they all pulled the soldier and non-commissioned officer straps back in the tsarist army and sniffed gunpowder back in WWI. But if the first three military commanders are the pride of our Armed Forces, then you can’t say the same about Kulik ... On the other hand, the most talented representative of the new wave of our commanders, General Chernyakhovsky, first received a military education and only then served in the army and fought, and how ... Primary is the presence or absence of relevant abilities, the desire to develop these abilities, in particular, to perceive everything new in military science, and not to consider yourself as the navel of the earth. And did you serve before studying at VU or not in this case a second time - it all depends on the person - military service before school is not absolute ...
  31. chenia
    chenia 10 March 2014 13: 06
    0
    Quote: Professor
    a soldier who served one and a half to two years is not comparable and not in favor of the lieutenant.


    Are you serious, or have a heavy meal in the morning. Well, you can’t carry stupidity so affirmatively.

    Quote: Professor
    Most of the entrants finish the VU, come to the units and begin. This one had no idea what a real army was, he suddenly wanted a civilian


    If at first the platoon didn’t know enough for example the materiel, this is determined by the fact that he taught up to 30 artillery systems (for example) artillery (guns, mortars, ATGMs, rocket artillery) and artillery reconnaissance systems (including instrumental) –– radar , sound station, etc. And of course you need to get in the course of things, and delve into the subtleties.
    I remember during my seniority (after the 3rd year), in the KV positions we put things in order with grandfathers in the evening, in the morning one of them sang a similar song (they say you don’t know the life of a soldier, etc., and you don’t have to get into existing relationships).
    After I tightened his belt, so that his tongue and eyes crawled out with the words “son will walk like this until the end of my experience” (under the laughter of the whole battery) there were no more bad questions and statements.
    And after a while we arranged a light battle with the natives (went to dances), so the fighters led by these grandfathers came to our aid.


    Quote: Alekseev
    Under the old Soviet system, life and service in the higher educational institutions did not differ much from the soldier’s. At least in the first, second courses. There was, of course, more order in the school than in some kind of non-staff army regiment.
    Barracks, guards, work, outfits, close communication with soldiers of support units during field practical exercises.
    3 rubles 80 kopecks monetary content.


    Correctly. Well, the furniture is newer, hang up at 23.00, rise 7.00. dismissal 3 times a week, and there was nothing new in the troops, except hazing. The training intensity is an order of magnitude higher - there are more field exits than in the army, camp camps, and exercises with live firing (and ammunition is given half an order of magnitude (5-7 times) more (it is necessary that 70% of cadets shoot out, this is not to shoot in artillery press the trigger lever or pull the trigger cord, but it is located 3-5 km from the fire with a pencil).

    Quote: Professor
    .and immediately awarded the extraordinary rank of colonel


    No, they were not assigned, it was a shame, but a year and a half later he became the battery commander.


    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2014 14: 57
      0
      Quote: chenia
      Are you serious, or have a heavy meal in the morning. Well, you can’t carry stupidity so affirmatively.

      I ate and drank in moderation. Thanks for work. You still equate the graduates of military departments-bicentiaries (or even exalt) with those who have served military service. Why not? Officers, after all. In the men's team have grown. laughing

      Quote: chenia
      If at first the platoon does not know enough for example the materiel,

      And here is the materiel? We are not talking about it, but about the specifics of army life, the intricacies of human relationships in the male team, which recruits from different social and economic sectors of society, ethnic and religious groups, and purely geographically from different places, are gathered. I personally was shocked when I met a conscript who could not read, literally illiterate. How much was from Central Asia without knowledge of the Russian language. Well, where do you see this in school?

      Quote: chenia
      Correctly

      Not properly. About the illiterate, I already wrote above. Let's talk about fraternity, hazing, etc.?
  32. Kornilovets
    Kornilovets 10 March 2014 13: 18
    0
    I've noticed for a long time that when Russia is headed by Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Alexander the Second, Stalin .... The state is growing stronger, the Army and the Navy are expanding, we are expanding our borders, we are building new factories and plants ... etc.

    Time passes, Anna Ioannovna, Peter the Third, Nicholas II, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Yanukovych ... etc., come to replace, first our people shed blood, accomplish "Great" deeds, and then how come such "copies" and all the devastation, civil wars, traitors raise their heads, crooks climb into power, destroy the army and the navy, then again we begin to return our own, build, create, teach ... and so on.

    After all, looking at what we have since 1991, is happening ... Peter, Catherine, Stalin .... because in the "coffin overturn", it would be so funny if it was not so sad.

    When we begin to learn from our mistakes, you need to create your own political system, VERY strict laws, controls, filters, and exams for professional suitability who goes to power, to law enforcement agencies and special services. His foreign and domestic policies, SOCIALISM !!!

    After all, who are, in essence, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shushkevich, Yanukovia, etc.? - this is yesterday's "Grishka Otrepyevs" ...
  33. Chifka
    Chifka 10 March 2014 16: 05
    0
    Only the betrayal of Russia's national interests by Petersburg did not make Königsberg Russian back in the XNUMXth century.

    One of the key phrases, which is characteristic, including for modern history. Whatever the king (President), his retinue makes him .....
  34. chenia
    chenia 10 March 2014 16: 27
    0
    Quote: Kornilovist
    You still equate the graduates of military departments-bicentiaries (or even exalt) with those who have served military service


    Biennials are another question, as commanders they are certainly weaker. But as techies. very nothing.

    You understand the doctrine of those years - the mass army, the "friends" of the Union in bulk. But our mobile reserve was up to 40-45 million (those who served in the army, age from 18 to 50 years.). Well, where to find all the commanders? By the way, they also made officers from reserve sergeants (junior lieutenant courses). What is the problem?

    Quote: Professor
    And here is the materiel? We are not talking about it, but about the specifics of army life, the intricacies of human relationships in the male team, which recruits from different social and economic sectors of society, ethnic and religious groups, and purely geographically from different places, are gathered.


    And in VU, which is not from different places and nationalities on the course with two dozen. It's not a problem.
    In professional terms, the cadet and the soldier are not comparable (a fighter can only perfectly know a narrow certain complex of weapons, and more rational methods of working on it, I agree. But this is eliminated within a week if a month and a half got to the ATGM.) Well, we decided on this issue You don’t argue much.

    The subtlety of the relationship is the main difference, and so in the troops they are more rigid and unfair. Moreover, often degrading, it happens. The fact that more experienced soldiers do more skilled work, and young ones at the catch, is the norm - so everywhere. And when an old servant shifts his responsibilities to the young, this is different (while still mocking him). And you think there is unity.

    In VU, former soldiers plow and bear responsibilities on an equal basis with everyone (though they (and the Cadets) are more often appointed sergeants in the first courses). And no one will say, I say grandfather - they will crush. And if so, one for all, and all for one. Not, and at VU they sort things out (collective then male), but according to certain and fair traditions.

    Quote: Professor
    How much was from Central Asia without knowledge of the Russian language


    And what's the problem? We put in simpler positions, after half a year I already understand Russian quite well. And there are always translators. My calculation took first place in the district (KSAVO). KO and gunner were Tajiks. WELL ?
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2014 17: 28
      0
      Quote: chenia
      What's the problem?

      In professionalism or if you wish in cannon fodder.

      And in VU, which is not from different places and nationalities on the course with two dozen. It's not a problem.

      Only they are at least with a certificate of secondary education and the level of primary knowledge is above average. Illiterate and clearly nailed to the head there.

      Quote: chenia
      In professional terms, cadets and soldiers are not comparable

      You have missed the most important thing. I repeat, this is not about theoretical preparation, but about the specifics of army life, the intricacies of human relationships in the male team, leadership qualities, etc.

      Quote: chenia
      Biennials are another question, as commanders they are certainly weaker.

      Yah? And why would it? wink

      Quote: chenia
      according to certain and fair traditions.

      ... forgot about the charter? wink

      PS
      Tell us how many graduates of VU and for what reasons they would be happy to leave the army. How many eyes have opened? How many have understood what a distant garrison and other "delights" of army life are. Those who have served compulsory military service have no such romance and, accordingly, higher motivation and less disappointment. They knew where they were going.
      About the fleet in general, there is a special specificity. Six months in iron will not replace several years in any school.
  35. chenia
    chenia 10 March 2014 18: 38
    0
    Quote: Professor
    In professionalism or if you wish in cannon fodder.


    Well this is the problem of mass armies.

    Quote: Professor
    You have missed the most important thing. I repeat, this is not about theoretical preparation, but about the specifics of army life, the intricacies of human relationships in the male team, leadership qualities, etc.


    What are you carrying, and here theoretical preparation, this is understandable by itself. Practical exercises, field exits and live firing (both in terms of the number of activities and the amount of PSU consumption are multiple in WU). I don’t know where you studied, but you don’t understand the BP of the ground forces and are carrying some kind of gag.

    Quote: Professor
    Yah? And why would it?


    To begin with, they do not know what a barracks is. Here they have basically a theory, practice is limited to several classes and one camp camp with access to the training ground and the only live shooting.

    I'll never forget. Frunze Polytechnic, fees based on our regiment. In the park, the M-30 system. it is necessary to roll 8 people could not raise the bed. Having looked at the wild torment of the graduates, having mocked me to the best of my ability, I raised them lightly with my sergeant. And after that, they immediately succeeded. So they turn out to be unusual for iron, classes were apparently conducted on already deployed equipment, on a concrete site.

    In winter, at the Otar range (up to -30 and an invigorating mountain breeze) it is easy to determine who is a career officer and who is a two-year-old by his lowered cap (and by appearance too). In the daytime, the cadre officer did not lower his ears by the cap.
    Continue to continue?


    Quote: Professor
    forgot about the charter?


    Again, I’ll surprise you, the charter in the VU and the troops was one and the same. The conversation is about something else

    Quote: Professor
    How many eyes have opened? How many have understood what a distant garrison and other "delights" of army life are.


    They quit, yes. But the reason in most cases was different, in view of hopelessness in the main. And hardships and hardships were in the background.

    Quote: Professor
    Servants of military service have no such romance


    But I do not agree with this, debt and this component are decisive. Otherwise, it remains to serve for purely mercantile reasons (social status, money and pension, although this is important).
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2014 22: 23
      0
      Quote: chenia
      Practical exercises, field exits and live firing (both in terms of the number of events and the amount of PSU consumption are many times more in WU

      Dear, what are you talking about? YOU have lost the thread of dispute. You look at poi posts. I have affirmed and continue to affirm that an officer who served in the past military service is preferable to yesterday's school student. Of course, in order to obtain an officer rank, both graduated from VU or officer courses.

      Quote: chenia
      I don’t know where you studied, but you don’t understand the BP of the ground forces and are carrying some kind of gag.

      Closer to the body. A former soldier with 100 goals is more prepared than a former student. Or will you argue the opposite?

      Quote: chenia
      To begin with, they do not know what a barracks is.

      In WU, the barracks (hostel) can be called an obstacle barracks.

      Quote: chenia
      They quit, yes. But the reason in most cases was different, in view of hopelessness in the main. And hardships and hardships were in the background.

      But would they serve the urgent before the school and they would not have any illusions. A medical fact however. request
  36. chenia
    chenia 10 March 2014 23: 22
    0
    Quote: Professor
    In WU, the barracks (hostel) can be called an obstacle barracks.


    It’s clear that they were pierced, but you didn’t finish the VU. All four years I lived in the barracks, only four years after my graduation, a dormitory was built in the school for the fourth year. And, it’s nothing more than an army barracks (except for newer furniture and chairs instead of a stool). 4 cubicles in a common barracks (in the beginning there were bunk beds).

    Well, in the dining room table for four (camp gathering, as in the army. Table for ten), instead of mugs, glasses, spoons with forks, and chairs as in a cafe. In outfits by battery. guard, kitchen (up to 3 courses), garrison, patrol, etc. just like in the troops. On dismissal - Saturday, Sunday, in the fourth year and Wednesday (then they say they made a free exit for the fourth year), I really had a runner to visit the gym.

    Quote: Professor
    Closer to the body. A former soldier with 100 goals is more prepared than a former student. Or will you argue the opposite?


    On admission, yes. But where, and in what place did the lieutenant of the soldiers, by graduation, know and know more than me?

    You do not judge by Israel, and the West has a different system of training military personnel — they already LISTEN for officer courses, without the KMB, they have already passed the lowest individual and tactical level of military training.

    And we do it all at school. After a year at WU, they only reach the level of sergeant.
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 March 2014 09: 55
      0
      Quote: chenia
      But where, and in what place did the lieutenant of the soldiers, by graduation, know and know more than me?

      He served in a real army, unlike you.

      A military school is a horizontal section of society that does not guarantee that the best of the best are located there. On the one hand, there may be random people, on the other hand, it may happen that the most worthy people even tried to go there. Conscripts of military service constitute a vertical section of society, from the illiterate to the geniuses. That's where the best human material for the future officer corps is. How to interest these very best is a separate issue, but it has already been resolved. hi
  37. chenia
    chenia 11 March 2014 11: 18
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    A military school is a horizontal section of society that does not guarantee that the best of the best are located there. On the one hand, there may be random people, on the other hand, it may happen that the most worthy people even tried to go there.



    There is a competition when I entered, there were 5 people in place. Which means no, but there was a selection. There were soldiers from the troops (also selection and recommendations from the unit where they served), there were cadets. And you know that in the troops they even had to persuade to enter the VU, and not everyone agreed.

    Well, you are already starting to philosophize. I’m actually a hereditary officer, and they dragged me through the garrisons even before the school. But to assert that I understood something in the service from this I do not presume.

    And, here I affirm, combat training itself (always associated with workload and hardships) unites the team to a greater extent and develops the appropriate qualities. And in VU this is an order of magnitude larger and better. In a cadet team, no one can shift their responsibilities to another (and this I am not talking about more serious humiliations possible in the army). And in VU, the age difference between cadets can be a year (a little more, a little less), but no one ever feels this.

    Is this possible in the troops? Perhaps if the commander builds an attitude in the unit as it was in the school, and does not flirt with grandfathers.