Military Review

Russian Germans

12
Russian Germans

Catherine in Russian costume; Charlotte Prusskaya (wife of Nicholas I) in Russian costume.



"And the bread, German neat,
In a paper cap, more than once
I have already opened my vasisdas. ”

Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin. "Eugene Onegin"


... I will begin with an explanation of a funny term from an epigraph. Vasizdas is the name of the window pane, from the German question 'was ist das?' ("what is it?"). Literally, the window of a curious observer, who, seeing that something interesting or scandalous happened on the street, immediately seeks to find out: "Was ist das?" But back, however, to the topic of our story. So, what is this phenomenon - a German in Russia, a neat bread maker, an iron Stolz, ... Mother Queen Ekaterina, as well as the “special person” Benkendorf and the fiery revolutionary Bauman? They lived in Russia, they perceived it as their homeland. They thought about it, and not about Westphalia, Courland, or even some Anhalt-Zerbst. The immigrants (I almost said guest workers) from the German lands - this topic is too extensive, full of nuances, and sometimes - silence, so I would like to dwell only on certain aspects. Images, vision, result.

An interesting moment - the Germans, that is, the dumb, not speaking Russian, initially nicknamed all indiscriminately foreigners, mainly from Western Europe and only immigrants from Germany, who were simply more than the British or, say, the Dutch, secured for themselves this designation. The look at them changed - they acted as teachers and mentors, now as unclean “comers here” non-Christians, now in the form of good neighbors. How is Pushkin? “I am a shoemaker, my name is Gottlieb Schulz, and I live from you across the street, in this house, which is against your windows. Tomorrow I celebrate my silver wedding, and I ask you and your daughters to have a nice dinner with me ... ”


Alexander Benkendorf


... For example, in the reign of Elizabeth Petrovna, the real struggle against the "German domination" was launched. Daughter of Petrova, having ascended to the throne, immediately began to exterminate the “Kurland infection”, which became the symbol of the two previous rules. It was postulated that Anna Ioannovna and Anna Leopoldovna adored their disobedient Germans before stupor and, in fact, entrusted control of the state to them, whereas now the era of primordial autocracy is approaching. It is well known that Elizaveta actively and even - declaratively supported the natural Russian genius - Mikhail Lomonosov and did not favor scientists with German surnames. A lot was said about a certain “German party” (in the sense of a clique), which at one time plunged the country into the abyss of hopeless Bironovshchina. They say that the Germans, rallying around Anna's “Courland widow,” did their black stuff and robbed the people. In fact, everything looked much more complicated and simpler at the same time - there was simply no German party at the court.

Burchard Christopher Minich was a military engineer, politician and typical political adventurer of the Gallant Age, who knew how to overthrow disagreeable temporary workers. He was an ardent opponent of another German - Vice-Chancellor Andrei Ivanovich Osterman, one of the main protagonists of the Annenskie government. Both of them fiercely hated Ernst Biron, the favorite and the “main groom” of the empress, calling him a rogue and simply rootless boor. Tellingly, all three (and, separately) intrigued against the brothers Levenvolde - the main court parasites, in the opinion of everyone around them. If we trace the biographies of all the above-mentioned persons, it becomes clear that they all, rather, entered into political alliances with Russian aristocrats. For example, the omnipotent Ernst Biron was for a long time the patron saint of the noble boyar Artemy Volynsky, but the latter had his own views on government ... He ended up, as you know, bad.

Subsequently, especially with the filing of a talented novelist Ivan Lazhechnikov, Volynsky was considered to be almost a martyr-patriot who was killed by German henchmen of the lazy empress. In fact, Artemy Petrovich was a court figure, characteristic of the 18th century, and he was much more concerned with personal ambitions than, actually, the fate of Russia. Thus, there was no German party, clique, camarilla under Anna Ioannovna - each of the Germans was for himself, and each of them was personally given to the empress and, of course, his own pocket. This, by the way, is an interesting feature - immigrants from Germany have never gathered on national soil. Yes. Of course, there were German colonies in the Volga region. But a Russian German official, a subject of the Russian tsar, never promoted his own tribesman through the office just because he was also from Darmstadt. There are several explanations on this point. For example, it is believed that the native of all the same Darmstadt simply did not perceive the Saxon or Prussian as his own. On the other hand, the kurlander Biron (his real name is Beren) has never been a companion to all the same Levenvolde brothers who, it seemed, should have seemed to him "their own." Moreover, many of all these Holsteiners and Westphalians ceased to perceive themselves as, in fact, Germans. As Baron Tuzenbach from “The Three Sisters” said: “Yes, you need to work. I suppose you think: the German was deeply moved. But I, honestly, are Russian and do not even speak German. My father is Orthodox ... ”Some researchers, however, speak of the so-called“ landsknecht psychology ”, for which the Motherland is where service is.

Or, for example, instructive история Princess Fike, who (according to her memoirs) ceased to be German as soon as she entered the Russian land. Whether her quivering love for a new Motherland was sincere, or whether a subtle political calculation is behind this is not so important. She considered herself Russian in everything and did not even tolerate foreign speech at her side, believing that even at court one should speak exclusively in Russian. Known historical anecdote. In those days, all diseases were treated with bloodletting, and when the doctor once again “opened the blood” to the empress, she sighed with relief: “Well, that's it! Things will go well - the last German blood is out! ”The most surprising innovation at the Catherine’s court was the so-called“ Russian costume ”. In her striving to “diminish the French courtyard,” Teuton Ekaterina knew no bounds. Moreover, she even wanted to see the image of Peter I by Falcone ... in a Russian caftan, but her intention was not realized. The idea to dress a Russian antiquarian in a caftan he hated looked at least strange. Then the empress began to zealously disguise her subjects, imposing on them everything from which Peter had so long disaccustomed their grandfathers and grandmothers.

Having a superficial idea of ​​the Russian clothes of pre-Peter Russia, the empress came up with something between a modern court dress and a peasant costume familiar to her (or rather, with its festive version). There were kokoshnik and veil, and the like of a sundress, but at the same time, there was a thin lace, widely used in dresses of the XVIII century. It was with the filing of Catherine that it became a good tone to condemn cringing before the West. On the contrary, bon ton - praise everything Russian. For example, in the famous play by Denis Fonvizin (I note that he, too - von Wiesen) “Brigadier” (1769), a stupid pretentious lady says: “Ah! how happy is our daughter! She goes for the one that was in Paris. Oh! My joy! I quite know what it is like to live with a husband who was not in Paris. ” In the story, the young and empty-headed Shchegol Ivanushka (Ivan, who does not remember kinship) is crazy about everything foreign and therefore despises his “unhappy” origin. For him, being Russian is a real disaster. Whether business - abroad! And the playwright by the name of von Wiesen ardently condemns such offspring!

Under the grandson of Catherine - under Nikolai Pavlovich, this line continued. For the most part, a German by blood and married to a Prussian Charlotte, Nicholas I introduced in the society the age-old Russian values. The principles of the Nicholas rule - “Orthodoxy, Autocracy, Nationality” were formulated by Count Sergei Uvarov. Under Nicholas, another reform of the court dress was carried out - of course, “in the Russian image”. Tsar's daughter, Olga Nikolaevna, in her memoirs recalls one of her favorite beloved mentors: “She received a Russian dress of blue and gold, her own departure and a box in the theater ...” Which is characteristic, the Decembrist Pavel Pestel also showed interest in Russian dress and ancient customs - the offspring of the German family, who moved to Russia at the end of the XVII century. He literally wrote the following: “As for the beauty of clothes, the Russian dress can serve as an example.” Interestingly, the most active enemy of the whole German was the almost purebred German Alexander III, who in the West was always painted in the form of a bearded Slavic savage. He was a Russian tsar and loved Russia. Everything.

For comparison, the representatives of the Hannover (German) dynasty in England never particularly sought to become true gentlemen, and Marie-Antoinette, although she learned to tweet in French without the slightest accent, everything was considered a “German-Austrian” constantly led by her Viennese relatives. It is noteworthy that Handel, who lived in England from 1712 to 1759 a year, never called himself an Englishman. But back, however, to Russia. The image of a German in literature is a special conversation, because not only the political situation played a role here, but also the author’s personal views and preferences. The German is a bright antipode of the Russian man, or just a neighbor, comrade, who has his own national oddities, from whom one cannot escape. And sometimes a German or a German is a kind of generally accepted routine, and the author doesn’t even pay attention to it. Here is a phrase from everyone’s favorite work: “Andrei Bolkonsky, Kutuzov’s adjutant, married little Lisa Meinen, the most charming woman in St. Petersburg, last winter.” Meinen is a typical Prussian or Ostsee surname.


Frame from the film "Oblomov"


Can a “little princess” be considered a foreigner, an exotic fruit? Can we assume that she will gather around her circle, consisting of persons close to her by blood? For example, to invite only Anna Pavlovna Scherer, also, apparently, from the Germans. Here is another quote from the same novel: “In one morning, Colonel Adolf Berg, in a clean, spiky uniform, with his temples attached to the front, came to him.” But very often a native of the German world is depicted as a specimen of pedantry and a penchant for written rules. Whereas the primordial Slav hopes for a chance, tries to show sharpness, but not exact knowledge of laws. Here's how this is told in Nikolai Leskov's story “Iron Will”, devoted to the comparison of Russian and German characters: “No, sir: it’s in the case of a German who doesn’t take a step without calculating and will not fall off the bed without a tool; and secondly, don't you give too much attention to the will and calculations? ”

All memorable Andrei Stolz has always been the opposite of Ilya Oblomov. Sometimes it seems to be the antithesis of “German VS Russian.” Stolz - tough and resolute, but limited. Oblomov - lazy, but sincere and keenly feeling. They ideally complement each other, because where one has strength, the other has weakness. Stolz is a man-machine: “It’s all made up of bones, muscles and nerves, like a bloody English horse. He is thin; he has almost no cheeks at all, that is, bone and muscle, but no sign of oily roundness ... ”Or,“ He didn’t have any extra movements. If he was sitting, he was sitting quietly, but if he acted, he used as many facial expressions as was necessary. ” In Stolz, I remind you, the Russian mother, a noblewoman, sublime and sentimental. Her arguments about the German nation are quite typical: “In her opinion, there was not and could not be a single gentleman in the whole German nation. In her German character, she did not notice any gentleness, delicacy, condescension, nothing that makes life so pleasant in a good light, with which you can bypass some rule, break a common custom, and disobey the rules. ” It is interesting that Olga Ilinskaya marries iron Stolz, continuing to love the indecisive, gentle Ilya Ilyich. However, the reality is always more interesting and richer - a stranger, more irrational person than Kuchelbecker is hard to imagine at all. Yes, and sentimentalism with romanticism went to Russia from Germany. What kind of dismal pragmatism is there?

... And if tomorrow is war? Zinaida Hippius has a terrible story “German” about a boy named Veinen. As you remember, in 1914, everything changed - life, meaning, and accents. The young blonde turned out to be an outcast, although he never thought of himself as a German, like Baron Tuzenbach, by the way:

“—And the truth, brothers, he's a German! That's why such a fighter, the Germans are all fighters. And the German surname.

Valya was taken aback, even froze for a minute in surprise.

“I am the most Russian,” he finally said. - I have always been Russian. I am here, on Nikolaevskaya Street, and was born. ”

He becomes terrified of a teenager - he never thought about his German origins. “The case presented itself in the most hopeless form. And ... last name and dad buried in the Lutheran cemetery, and blond hair ... Yes, the Germans. Well, let there be anything you like, but he, Valya, will not be a German. Never! Everything was Russian - and suddenly not Russian? ”In the end, it turns out that the Väinen family are Latvians, and the child with this happy thought falls asleep.
Interestingly, the Nazi racial ideologues of the German colonist, whose ancestors once went to Russia, was considered second-rate or even third-class German, even if he is the “true Aryan”. The Nazis knew that the Russian Volksdeutsche perceived Russia as their homeland, and their river was the Volga, not the Rhine and not Havel. But in a war, the conversation is short. As you know, many Germans were repressed or deported to remote areas of the country. Nor was the famous Volga autonomy that existed within the RSFSR. By the end of 1941, a significant number of Germans were sent to Siberia and Kazakhstan from the European part of the USSR. According to the Soviet leadership, the situation with the immigrants demanded radical measures. The solution was found - the call of the entire German population in the so-called "Labor Army". As a rule, these were construction battalions. Thus, the theme of the Russian Germans is also a tragedy.

But the question is inexhaustible. Someone will remember Dr. Fyodor Haas, a famous philanthropist who did much to alleviate the fate of prisoners. Or scout Richard Sorge. Otto Yulievich Schmidt. Peter Struve. Or actress Alice Freindlich, who, by the way, had a blockade childhood in besieged Leningrad ... A people who are not near, but together.
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  1. demotivator
    demotivator 22 February 2014 08: 56
    +3
    Someone will recall Dr. Fedor Haas, a famous philanthropist who has done a lot to ease the fate of prisoners.

    F. Haaz is known not only for being the chief doctor of prison hospitals in Moscow and a member of the Moscow Board of Trustees for Prisons. He also became famous for the fact that in 1809 and 1810 he traveled around the Caucasus to study mineral springs (now the Caucasian Mineral Waters). He investigated the sources in Kislovodsk, discovered the sources of Zheleznovodsk, was the first to report the sources in Essentuki (although he did not attach any importance to them). During the Patriotic War of 1812, he worked as a surgeon in the Russian Army. His conclusions on the sources of mineral waters in the North Caucasus formed the basis of the decisions of the then authorities on the further development of this region as a resort and recreation area. It was in those years that the well-known cities were laid down - the resorts of Kislovodsk, Zheleznovodsk and Essentuki. For which Dr. Haaz thanks all of us! The memory of him is still preserved. Streets in each of the cities of the CMS are named after Fyodor Petrovich Haaz. And at each source of mineral water in all cities, you will definitely see a marble tablet that says that this type of mineral water was first investigated and recommended for medical use by Dr. Haaz in that year. If only we had such Germans!
    1. Horde
      Horde 22 February 2014 09: 51
      +1
      For example, in the reign of Elizabeth Petrovna, a real struggle against the “German domination” was launched. Petrov’s daughter, ascending the throne, immediately began to exterminate the “Courland infection”, which became a symbol of the two previous reigns.

      The view on them changed - then they acted as teachers and mentors, then in the role of the filthy "unfriendly" come here ", then in the image of good neighbors


      it is enough THAT THE RUSSIAN IS GOOD, THEN THE GERMAN IS DEATH

      decipher is when the Russian lives GOOD, for example, in the reign of Tsar Alexei, the Russians lived very well, richly, prosperously, then the Germans begin to worry, how can this be? And with the help of intrigues, bribery, poisoning of the first persons of the Russian state, they were able to crawl into power - PETER'S ARRIVAL, and then, ONLY GERMANS in power, in ACADEMIC SCIENCE and most importantly in HISTORIOGRAPHY - not to be confused with history. Next only MYTHS, which Germans are good, how much they did good to the Russians. ALL is nonsense. The Germans' arrival in Russia is only for one for Looting, for their own enrichment. What the hell would German Bering name are the long-open seas and lands of Chukotka, Alaska, I mean SEA BERING after all, DEZHNEV, YES KHABAROV WENT FIRST here? Germans i.e. IMPLIERS took away the HISTORY, CULTURE from the Russians, the best Russians were destroyed, for example, to know NASCHEKIN-ORDYNSKY and replaced by Germans who accepted Russian surnames, they became helpers of the German tsars. Here is our story, which, incidentally, is happening now ...
  2. demotivator
    demotivator 22 February 2014 10: 05
    +1
    Yes, here with Bering the story is rather murky. Pikul seems to have written about this still, that Bering does not belong to the priority in opening this strait. Only he is not German, but the Dane, which, however, does not change matters. As for the problem as a whole, the Germans in Russia were different. When Anna Ioannovna was such a well-known Biron (more precisely - German. Bühren, which he changed to the offensive surname Biron) that gave the name to the whole phenomenon - Biron. His name is a symbol of German domination in Russia. And there were Germans, such as the already mentioned Haaz.
    1. Horde
      Horde 22 February 2014 11: 15
      -3
      Quote: demotivator
      Yes, here with Bering the story is rather murky.


      and what's muddy here? do you want to see with your own eyes the order of Peter, where he crosses out the name of Dezhnev with his own hand and rules on Bering? so you will never see this, it is a HIDDEN STORY ...
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 14: 33
        +1
        Quote: Horde
        see the order of Peter

        In those times orderthey were called state institutions to carry out certain activities in the interests of the state. Peter I signed decrees = written orders on the execution of his sovereign will. Well, if you hung the stars, then try to match the image.
        1. Horde
          Horde 22 February 2014 16: 09
          -1
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          In those days, government orders were called


          or maybe they heard about the introduction of the collegiums by Peter - this is instead of ORDERS. This is firstly, and secondly, that you think that not Peter, but ESTABLISHMENTS renamed old cards? I wonder if Peter was renamed Putin you would think that it did without Putin? thirdly about the stars NOT YOURS ... MATTER.
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 17: 11
            +1
            Quote: Horde
            or maybe they heard about the introduction of colleges by Peter

            So answer yourself with what document Peter I introduced the Board: Decree or order?
            Quote: Horde
            secondly, what do you think, that not Peter, but ESTABLISHMENTS renamed old cards?

            About "renaming old maps" by Peter I - this is your version, you justify it, mb. will give you an honorary title in some "academy" in Atyrau ...
            Quote: Horde
            thirdly about the stars NOT YOUR ... A BUSINESS

            I will answer in your own style, with a minimum of punctuation marks and spelling violation: you yourself ...! and more from ... I hear!
            1. Horde
              Horde 22 February 2014 18: 20
              0
              Quote: 11111mail.ru
              So answer yourself with what document Peter I introduced the Board: Decree or order?


              But do I need it?

              Quote: 11111mail.ru
              About "renaming old maps" by Peter I - this is your version, you justify it, mb. will give you an honorary title in some "academy" in Atyrau ...

              Well, what is there to justify? Dezhnev passed the strait back in the middle of the 17th century, and Bering sailed by order of Peter in 1725-30, can you know?

              you need someone else’s star hunter to understand the orders, boards and decrees, otherwise you have a problem with understanding the history ...
              1. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 23 February 2014 07: 40
                +1
                Quote: Horde
                Well, what is there to justify? Dezhnev passed the strait back in the middle of the 17th century, and Bering sailed by order of Peter in 1725-30, can you know?
                you hunter for other people's stars would have to understand the orders, boards and decrees, otherwise you have a problem with understanding the history outlined ..

                Before blaming your opponent for understanding history, familiarize yourself with the geography where you boldly entered:
                http://enc-dic.com/geography/Beringovo-More-2649.html
                "It was the English navigator J. Cook who suggested naming the sea in honor of Bering at the end of the 1778th century, who in 1817 completed Bering's work in northeast Asia. The name was introduced into the widespread use of Russian sailors by the famous Russian navigator V.M. based on the results of the circumnavigation of 1819-18. Earlier the sea was called Anadyr, Kamchatka, Bobrov ". As you can see, Peter I had nothing to do with the renaming. "Without geography, history stumbles," said the Russian scientist AT Bolotov back in the XNUMXth century.
  3. parus2nik
    parus2nik 22 February 2014 11: 34
    +3
    I won’t go into history .. touch on today .. and a simple topic of football .. foreign players come to play in Russia .. they’re running around the season .. and they don’t want to play anymore .. Not all of course, but mostly .. So it used to be ... someone who drove the ball down, who honestly work .. And there who gets where ..
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 22 February 2014 12: 10
      +8
      Quote: parus2nik
      I will not go into history .. touch on today ..

      I live in the Volga region and had occasion to communicate with Russian Germans in person, I have never seen a German bully, a homeless person, a bandit. Most importantly, I have not met a German - a Russophobe, on the contrary, Germans, especially those who grew up in the Soviet era, are patriots of Russia, they say Russia - our homeland, Germany, of course, but Russia is nicer and dearer.
  4. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 22 February 2014 12: 36
    +4
    It is necessary to allow the Germans to settle in Russia again. am
    1. Uhe
      Uhe 22 February 2014 13: 29
      +3
      But are they forbidden?

      Half of the Germans are Germanized Slavs. Some are Saxons, the rest are just the Germans, that is, Franks.

      Lenin dreamed of an alliance, even a united state, of Germans and Slavs, and Stalin created such an alliance - CMEA, Warsaw Pact countries. East Germany - these are the very same Germanized Slavs and Saxons. Socialism has united us all. Hunchback destroyed it. The only way to unite again is again based on the socialist and communist ideas.
      1. CIANIT
        CIANIT 24 February 2014 08: 40
        +1
        But aren't the Saxons Germans?
    2. Horde
      Horde 22 February 2014 16: 16
      -6
      Quote: cerbuk6155
      It is necessary to allow the Germans to settle in Russia again.


      that you can’t live without it? and where? in Moscow on kukuk?
      1. does it
        does it 22 February 2014 17: 20
        +1
        Quote: Horde
        Quote: cerbuk6155
        It is necessary to allow the Germans to settle in Russia again.

        that you can’t live without it? and where? in Moscow on kukuk?

        Some insanity! they live in different layers of Russian society anyway, I have several families that are familiar, Russians and surnames are Russian and there is only one root! Their founder in the Second World War fell into Soviet captivity, served his sentence, then they offered to stay, he stayed, got married and laid a powerful tribal root (7 children) even grandchildren under a meter of ninety and outwardly purebred Saxons. Although their hereditary vision is poor
  5. Ptah
    Ptah 22 February 2014 13: 43
    -6
    Now nabigut "Patriots" and yell - "Shoot" Grads "in German villages! Burn out all" Bumblebees "! FOR STALINGRAAAAD! Enemy near Moskoooy ......"
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 22 February 2014 13: 57
      +1
      My grandfather, a purebred German, listened to this all his life ... even when on May 9th he went out with an iconostasis to the floor of his chest ... So I can quite believe you)))
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 22 February 2014 14: 07
        +1
        Quote: il grand casino
        My grandfather, a purebred German, listened to this all his life

        I also have a purebred, even baptized in the Catholic faith, but who has come more than once to the Orthodox Church to put candles.
        I have never heard such a thing. At least I don’t know about it.
        "Runaway" at a young age with his family from Germany in the early 20s. From the general poverty and devastation that reigned in the homeland after WWI. He worked all his life in factories in engineering positions. With a "break" in the Second World War, where GERMAN fought against GERMANS with the composition of the howitzer, was seriously injured GERMANS during an air raid on their battery. After the war was operated (amputation) ethnic GERMAN.
        Like this...
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 22 February 2014 14: 11
      +2
      because there is no problem here at all. many on the site grew up with Germans, many were born in German villages (like me), many are Germans or descendants of mixed marriages. there is no problem at all. because our Germans are one hundred percent the same people are like other citizens, but there are pseudo-historians who begin to turn Peter, Catherine and so on ... they do not look and do not argue about what they see today, they do not understand what they could be ... climb through the centuries, find there some kind of "scandals, intrigues, investigations" and at the same time say that it is very difficult to find information and only they could find this information and understand it
      1. Horde
        Horde 22 February 2014 16: 20
        -1
        Quote: Gleb
        but there are pseudo-historians who begin to turn Peter, Catherine and so on ... they do not look and do not argue about what they see today, they do not understand what they could ... they climb through the centuries, find there some kind of "scandals, intrigues, investigations



        just speak out? or is that soul specific?
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 14: 22
      +1
      Quote: Ptah
      Now nabIgut "patriots" and scream - "Shoot" Grads "in German villages! Burn out all" Bumblebees "! FOR STALINGRAAAAD! The enemy under Moskoooy ......"

      You were the first who on this thread "threw it into a mess"!
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 22 February 2014 18: 17
        0
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        "threw it into a mess"!

        Saying "patriots" did not mean specifically YOU. What "threw" there is absolutely unimportant to me, the main thing is prevented (it seems) pseudo-patriotic cries.
        And that the mentioned substance got into YOUR "bowl of porridge", then I'm sorry.
        I didn’t know that she was yours, and that it was porridge ... hi
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 23 February 2014 07: 17
          0
          Quote: Ptah
          the main thing has prevented (it seems) pseudo-patriotic cries.

          No, you acted just like a provocateur. Some opponents who appear with a flag crowned with a Star of David do this regularly.
          About you and the "Horde", who are picking the healing wounds from the insults once inflicted on your (close / non-close) relatives: it would be better to use energy for a good cause. Remember VS Vysotsky: "We are also victims, which means Russified, yours who have fallen without a trace, my innocently sat down." Although the "Horde", judging by the use of specific words, had rather Vertuhai relatives.
    4. Horde
      Horde 22 February 2014 16: 15
      -3
      Quote: Ptah
      Now nabIgut "patriots" and scream - "Shoot" Grads "in German villages! Burn out all" Bumblebees "! FOR STALINGRAAAAD! The enemy under Moskoooy ......"



      nemchura Red Square, what a beauty, finally waited, only what is it?
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 16: 25
        0
        Quote: Horde
        nemchura Red Square, what a beauty, finally waited, only what is it?

        So the second drew. According to your comments: you are from / user / Ptah / one berry field. Splash slop, stir up the discussion and rub his paws, giggling joyfully.
        1. Horde
          Horde 22 February 2014 16: 42
          -4
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          Splash slop, stir up the discussion and rub his paws, giggling joyfully.


          spit in YOUR GERMAN Porridge mail for honor ...
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 17: 18
            0
            Quote: Horde
            spit in YOUR GERMAN Porridge mail for honor ...

            How many battle spits did he make?
            "Spitting cobra is the general name for several species of snakes that live in the savannas and forest regions of Africa and South Asia and can" shoot "poison in the eyes of the enemy. The black-necked cobra, for example, can fire up to 28" shots. "
            1. Horde
              Horde 22 February 2014 18: 03
              -2
              Quote: 11111mail.ru
              How many battle spits did he make?


              for you, what figure matters? if you spit in your porridge more than once, can you eat?
              1. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 22 February 2014 20: 28
                -2
                Quote: Horde
                if you spit in your porridge more than once, can you eat?

                A pervert, however, and with a manic idea: spit on someone else's mess (after all, your idea). Try to do this at least once, you will finish this "porridge" with your teeth.
                1. Horde
                  Horde 22 February 2014 21: 31
                  -3
                  Quote: 11111mail.ru
                  Try to do this at least once, you will finish this "porridge" with your teeth.


                  I do not eat German porridge deprived ... laughing
                  1. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 23 February 2014 07: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Horde
                    I do not eat German porridge deprived ...

                    In the absence of punctuation marks in your phrase, the word "disenfranchised" is quite applicable to yourself. However, your use of lowercase letters at the beginning of sentences (and systematic) also allows you to make a conclusion about your mental abilities ("alternatively thinking" in Western terminology).
                    1. Horde
                      Horde 23 February 2014 09: 44
                      0
                      Quote: 11111mail.ru
                      In the absence of punctuation marks in your phrase, the word "disenfranchised" is quite applicable to you.


                      and with Russian you also have a problem, in no way LESSER can be applied to the first person of the sentence either in terms of meaning, and this is exactly how the majority understands, nor according to the rules of building the sentence ...
                    2. Akkypamucm
                      Akkypamucm 31 January 2019 16: 07
                      0
                      He is not a DESTRIAN, but an ordinary GOPNICK.
                2. stroporez
                  stroporez 23 February 2014 19: 03
                  0
                  Quote: 11111mail.ru
                  you will eat up this "porridge" along with your teeth.
                  The Horde, of course, went too far, and you seduced ............................
      2. does it
        does it 22 February 2014 17: 26
        +3
        Quote: Horde
        nemchura Red Square, what a beauty, finally waited, only what is it?

  6. Kus Imak
    Kus Imak 22 February 2014 14: 31
    +4
    By the way, regarding the deportation of the Germans. I live in Israel. Until 1937 (then Mandatory Palestine), German cities were in some cities here, the inhabitants of which were deported to Germany and Australia on the eve of the war. That is, Stalin was far from the only one who deported the Germans. England - the cradle of democracy, used them even before Stalin.
    1. Horde
      Horde 22 February 2014 16: 13
      +1
      Quote: Kus Imak
      there were German colonies whose inhabitants were deported to Germany and to Australia on the eve of the war


      and the Americans evicted the japons from the west coast, there were many of them, the Indians were destroyed, the bisons were destroyed in this country THE BIGGEST DEMOCRACY ... laughing
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 22 February 2014 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: Kus Imak
      here in some cities there were German colonies,

      Their colonies were also in the Caucasus ... About 50000 thousand Germans lived in Azerbaijan. Until now, their cities are, Annendorf, Elenodorf. You are so stunned that you drove into some German city. By the way, the full restoration of the city of Elenedorf (Khanlar, Gay Gel) has recently been completed. The church, all the houses, roads were restored. There are signs with the names of the owners on each house, in front of the gates, they were also restored. And the Germans winery is still working. . The last German, miraculously survived after repression in the fall of 41 years in Kazakhstan, died in 2008. And every year the Germans come, floods of those who lived in their hometown
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 22 February 2014 21: 36
        +1
        smersh70 "There were also their colonies in the Caucasus ... There were about 50000 Germans living in Azerbaijan. Their cities are still standing, Annendorf, Yelenodorf. You look so crazy that you drove into some German city. By the way, the complete restoration of the city of Helenedorf ( Khanlar, Gay-gel). They restored the church, all the houses, roads. Above each house, in front of the gate, under the plaster, there were plates with the names of the owners. "
        That's what smart people do. And to put it mildly, stupid ... however, you read the comments and there is nothing to add.
    3. stroporez
      stroporez 23 February 2014 19: 10
      0
      Quote: Kus Imak
      England is the cradle of democracy
      ----- and also --- "scientific" fascism, conveyer genocide, ethnic cleansing and many other "goodies" of the "civilized" world .....
  7. driver
    driver 22 February 2014 17: 23
    +1
    I was acquainted with Alexander Streich; he was born and grew up in Russia; nationality in blood; pedant; neat; went to Germany; lives there; Russia needs both Germans and Korean An and American Wilde
  8. rezident
    rezident 22 February 2014 18: 23
    +2
    I thought about the Volga Germans. There were good people. Relatives told who from there.
  9. kind
    kind 23 February 2014 20: 23
    +1
    In the Volga region, where I was born and lived before serving in the army, we had many villages and villages where Germans lived before the war. Some returned back to the 60s. They told me that they only have German surnames and some traditions, and since their ancestors lived here since the time of Catherine II, they were not even going to fight for Hitler. They considered themselves Russian Germans. Notice, not Russified, but Russian! By the way, among the Kalmyks, Crimean Tatars and Chechens there were a lot of traitors, but among those Soviet Germans there were only a few.
  10. rezident
    rezident 23 February 2014 20: 57
    0
    They were not traitors even if they really wanted to. These peoples were conquered and did not consider it necessary to be obliged to Russia.
    1. kind
      kind 23 February 2014 21: 08
      +1
      Why were they conquered? Read the story. There was no need to make raids on Russia and take the Russian people into slavery. And what does it mean conquered? They were and are equal citizens of Russia, no one oppressed them. It's another matter if shit is boiling in their brains. And you are probably one of the "oppressed".
      1. rezident
        rezident 24 February 2014 20: 19
        0
        At that time it was in the order of things. Rusichi may have run even further where they were not asked.
        1. Akkypamucm
          Akkypamucm 31 January 2019 16: 12
          0
          Don’t be shy, they said, And say B ... and who did we rob and slave in those days?
    2. Akkypamucm
      Akkypamucm 31 January 2019 16: 10
      0
      So they fought, because of their lifestyle ... robberies, raids, abductions
  11. kush62
    kush62 24 February 2014 04: 42
    0
    Pay attention to the kokoshnik of Nikolai's wife 1. Are the olympiads represented at the opening and very well criticized by Mr. Asgard not similar?
    PS Showdown of some visitors to the site on national grounds, except for enmity and discord, do not bring anything and will not bring. A dirty trick or disgust is done to you directly by a person, not his nationality.
    Take a look. as in Ukraine the Westerners of Mos Kalei are cherished. And this is we, all the inhabitants of Russia.