Ukrainian opposition: the split is deeper and wider ...

© Photo: "Voice of the Capital"

At the regular session, the Verkhovna Rada was going to consider amendments to the Constitution. However, all this remained to be intentions, because representatives of the Ukrainian opposition could not agree on the main issues. The foreign ministers of the European Union member countries also did not reach an agreement at a meeting in Brussels on measures regarding Ukraine, but were unanimous that Ukraine would not receive economic assistance.

Ukrainian deputies once again demonstrated their inconsistency. Once again, they were unable to reach a compromise and take the much-awaited decision on amending the Constitution. However, this time the reason is not at all in the opposition of the Party of Regions and its opponents - because the pro-government party has withdrawn itself from work. Disagreements arose between the opposition parties that were involved in the drafting of the new Constitution. This state of affairs clearly indicates that each of the opposition leaders is doing everything possible to rewrite the basic law for themselves. It is not surprising that they are unable to agree - the goals are different for everyone.

The leader of the UDAR party, Vitali Klitschko, for example, agrees to preserve certain presidential powers, but at the same time proposes to exclude the clause that the presidential candidate must reside in the state for at least 10 years before the election. Obviously, this will help him to open the way to the presidential chair (recall, Klitschko has a residence permit in Germany).

Former athlete has repeatedly tried to meet with Yanukovych. And now, when everything is relatively quiet on Independence, and the people are awaiting compromises in the constitutional process and the formation of the government, he decided to meet with the president again, pretending that he was trying to agree on political debates. First, Klitschko called the guarantor on the Maidan. Yanukovych seems to have agreed, but only on TV. A little thought, Klitschko said that he could accept such an offer only from presidential candidate Yanukovych, and not from the president. Thus, it is clear that the duel did not work.

Moreover, experts say, it could not happen in principle. Especially after the scandal associated with the recording of a telephone conversation of the Deputy Secretary of State of the United States, Victoria Nuland, who did not quite correctly put herself in the direction of the European Union. Now it is quite obvious that the Germans will fully support Klitschko, because America chose Yatsenyuk.

It should be noted that after the aforementioned scandal, the contradictions in the Ukrainian opposition only intensified. And it is no coincidence that after the publicity of this telephone conversation, the leaders of BLOW and “Batkivshchyna” could no longer hide the fact that they had sharp contradictions about the basic law. And it was precisely these contradictions that caused the work of the parliament to stop.

But in reality the matter is not even in the constitution. It is only a mirror of the Ukrainian “revolution”, which reflects the egoism of all those who are trying to become its head. For example, he does not even hide the fact that he doesn’t need any model of the state, except for an authoritarian one. And as long as he has even the slightest chance of a presidential chair, he will defend his position.

Klitschko is also used to working alone, especially with such and such friends.

And only one Yatsenyuk still insists on the full priority of the Verkhovna Rada. He calls to deprive the president of influence on the executive authorities. Thus, he goes not only against Klitschko’s opinion, but also against Tymoshenko, who, in a letter, urged her party members not to vote for changes to the basic law and to stop all negotiations with Yanukovych.

Meanwhile, it was Yatsenyuk, who for several months remained in the shadow of his more charismatic associates, is currently one of the most realistic candidates for the post of prime minister. He is supported not only by the Ukrainian president, but also by Western politicians. True, the opposition leader himself refused the proposed position, saying that he would become the head of the new government only if it was fully formed from opposition politicians.

Recall a few years ago, Yatsenyuk said that he was completely satisfied with the work in the legislative branch, and that he was not interested in the post of prime minister. However, time has shown that the politician was not entirely honest. In 2009, he headed the "Front for Change" and became one of the official candidates for the presidency. Then his ambitions were very big. However, the politician lost those elections, he also refused from the premiership and went to the opposition. And already in 2012, his party united with other opposition forces on the basis of the Yulia Tymoshenko’s Batkivshchyna party. Soon, due to well-known circumstances, the leadership of the party passed to Yatsenyuk.

According to political analyst Oleksandr Fomenko, Yatsenyuk now may well become the most convenient figure that will suit not only the Ukrainian political elite, but also the foreign one. According to the expert, lately Yatsenyuk has proved himself quite well as a man with ambitions. The Party of Regions’s stake on it is connected with the fact that it is the least evil (not to offer Tymoshenko’s premier chair). As for the choice of the West, it is also quite obvious, says Fomenko. Yatsenyuk is fluent in English, and is ready to repeat everything he says there, clearly and with expression. But seriously speaking, Yatsenyuk really enjoys the confidence of Western politicians. In addition, the leader of "Batkivschiny" has a decent political experience, because Yatsenyuk was the foreign minister, the chairman of the National Bank, and the head of the Verkhovna Rada.

Klitschko, as we know, has no such experience, because he came to big politics from sports. It is also believed that Yatsenyuk has more connections with oligarchs. Therefore, says Fomenko, one of the possible scenarios for the development of events will be the premiership of Yatsenyuk under the nominal Klitschko presidency. Such an arrangement of political forces could become a kind of compromise between America and the European Union.

According to Valery Solovya, a professor at Moscow State University, after the scandal with the conversation, the appointment of Yatsenyuk as the head of government may be perceived by some as an attempt by Americans to establish a dictate in Ukraine, which is a direct threat to its independence. On the other hand, says the scientist, the Americans just voiced what everyone knew. In addition, it can give him extra points, because it means that he is the person who can manage to negotiate with the Americans.

However, there are certain difficulties here, which are connected with the demands of Tymoshenko to immediately stop negotiations with the authorities. On the one hand, if Yatsenyuk fails to fulfill this requirement, he may be removed from the party’s leadership, and on the other, in case of refusal to negotiate, the politician may discredit the Ukrainian opposition in the eyes of the western political elite and lose his chances of getting a premier.

Yuriy Solozobov, an employee of the Institute for National Strategy, stresses that the Ukrainian opposition has different leaders and does not have unity. Klitschko does not want to lay claim to the presidency, since this limits his political ambitions, Tymoshenko is still in prison, and therefore cannot drastically influence events. The differences within the opposition itself are much sharper than between the president and the opposition. Therefore, we can expect many more problems and contradictions.

The situation that has developed in Ukraine was also discussed by the heads of foreign ministries of the EU countries, but no specific decisions were made either. The European Union has declared that it is ready to support the political process in the country, but there can be no talk of financial assistance in this case. According to Oleg Lebedev, First Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, Relations with Compatriots and Eurasian Integration, the International Monetary Fund is a major player in this field. And he has certain requirements for Ukraine, in particular, an increase in utility tariffs. And this is unacceptable both for the Ukrainian authorities and for the opposition. The loan is possible only in the case of the formation of a new government with Yatsenyuk and Klitschko, however, they refused the posts offered to them. Thus, it is obvious that the opposition forces themselves create barriers for the country to obtain a loan.

Materials used:
http://rus.ruvr.ru/2014_02_11/Ukraina-raskol-vnutri-oppozicii-ostree-chem-raznoglasija-s-prezidentom-7206/
http://www.ruska-pravda.com/novosti/34-nv-politika/24036-mogut-dat-ukraine-do-20-milliardov.html
http://vybor.ua/article/grazhdanskoe_obschestvo/nam-nujen-svoy-stolypin.html
http://tvrain.ru/articles/glavred_kommersant_ukraina_valerij_kalnysh_timoshenko_mozhet_vyjti_na_svobodu_uzhe_v_etom_godu-362517/

Comments

[Igor39]

Yes, Ukraine as a piece of cake, the EU and the USA quarrel specifically for it, but I’m glad as puppets for them, for me as clowns , they need to go on tour, there will be more benefit

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Author Valery Boval

A loan is possible only in the case of the formation of a new government with Yatsenyuk and Klitschko, but they refused the posts proposed to him. Thus, it is obvious that the opposition forces themselves create obstacles for the country to obtain credit.

One gets the impression that Ukraine was created by the independent rulers in order to get a loan, to eat it with ropes, to steal it, so get it, tilka for sebe, to state that these hands did not steal anything. And to hang debts on children and grandchildren, and on those who then on this earth will dig, what would they climbed out.

[Egoza]

Quote: Nikolai S.

And to hang debts on children and grandchildren, and on those who then on this earth will dig, what would they climbed out.

Did those who have nothing to eat come to Kiev from Lviv or Ternopol? Those with hungry children crying at home? Did the unemployed come to demand work? No and no again! Well-fed, aggressive fighters arrived, to whom their leaders promised a European freebie. Buses and trains brought to Kiev an army of well-fed and trained attack aircraft, which were assigned specific combat missions. All this was preceded by a long and thorough preparation, and there is nothing in common with the economy here. Coups d'etat are carried out not for economic reforms, but for the sake of seizing power, partial or complete change of the existing system in the interests of specific individuals or organizations. And these are not people at all. The Maidan was planned in advance and could not be stopped by any reforms.

[Kazakhstan]

I completely agree. Fascist attack aircraft acted in the same way.

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Egoza

Coups d'etat are carried out not for economic reforms, but for the sake of seizing power, partial or complete change of the existing system in the interests of specific individuals or organizations.

What am I for? Although the primary is not a system, but an attitude towards property. They seize power in order for Ukraine with everything that is on it to be someone else: American with Yatsenyuk, European with Klitschko - and not at all in order to feed Ukraine better and somehow equip it. Even in the poorest country, there is always something to steal and appropriate. Now there is a big danger to eat (and all that is connected with it) Ukraine for grants.

[0251]

I completely agree. It is not clear where the security and control structures, including intelligence, were looking. He had long been aware of what was happening about the existence of various pro-fascist structures, etc. but they didn’t take measures, in the end they got what they got.

[rotmistr4]

The special services were not given the command "Fas" and now Ukraine is reaping the bitter fruits of the country's leadership's indecision. I was told that when a similar turmoil was planned in Uzbekistan, Karimov did not allow it. At night, trucks drove by, gathered the main instigators and the riot did not take place.
And in Tajikistan, the leadership slammed and the country flared up in a civil war, killing hundreds of thousands of lives, millions of ruined fates !!!!

[rotmistr4]

The special services were not given the command "Fas" and now Ukraine is reaping the bitter fruits of the country's leadership's indecision. I was told that when a similar turmoil was planned in Uzbekistan, Karimov did not allow it. At night, trucks drove by, gathered the main instigators and the riot did not take place.
And in Tajikistan, the leadership slammed and the country flared up in a civil war, killing hundreds of thousands of lives, millions of ruined fates !!!!

[Setrac]

Quote: rotmistr4

The special services were not given the command "Fas" and now Ukraine is reaping the bitter fruits of the country's leadership's indecision.

Maybe this is the "plan" as you know?

[0251]

I completely agree. It is not clear where the security and control structures, including intelligence, were looking. He had long been aware of what was happening about the existence of various pro-fascist structures, etc. but they didn’t take measures, in the end they got what they got.

[tundra]

There are no words, the site says ... briefly. I absolutely agree, not with the site in this case, with you egoza.

[Ross]

A loan is possible only in the case of the formation of a new government with Yatsenyuk and Klitschko, but they refused the posts proposed to him. Thus, it is obvious that the opposition forces themselves create obstacles for the country to obtain credit.

It seems that the default of Ukraine is already inevitable and already on the horizon.

[31231]

I agree. The ambitions and arrogance of the Ukrainian authorities will be calmed down only by default. At the same time, those who support Svidomo and independence will understand what the price of this independence is actually.
And I hope GDP after the Olympics will introduce unspoken thresholds for Gaster zapadentsev and products from regions infected with Svidomo.

[alexdol]

Nikolay S. (1) RU "And to hang the debts on children and grandchildren ..."
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------
So I said the same thing a long time ago in this verse of mine "On Credits":

I will tell now, friends,
Where do "credits" go
And let our House be one family,
But the bandits rule it!

We undoubtedly need a loan
Not all millionaires yet!
But the money will not go to you
Functionaries will take them apart!

And it may very well be
Swiss banks will not leave
Only their "paper" way will pass
And somewhere there they will disappear without a trace ...

Credit will disappear only for us
There are other "lazarenki"
What the greedy eye laid
On such tempting foams!

Well, what's next to explain
They will sign anything!
Loans - they only steal,
And to answer us - popularly!

21.03.1999g.
Although it has been written a long time ago, it is still relevant today! I invite everyone to my page on my litas:
http://www.stihi.ru/avtor/alexdol&book=4#4

[alexdol]

It was already interesting, who is it MINUS? After all, in this verse everything is TRUE, and if anyone objects, then it is not otherwise a bastard of the new "oligarchs"!

[O_RUS]

Quote: alexdol

It’s already become interesting, who is it MINUSANUL?

there are emissaries on the site. To you +.

[Kazakhstan]

Ukraine is a strategically important territory for the EU, the USA, therefore they provoke the people.

[morpex]

Quote: Kazakhstan

Ukraine is a strategically important territory for the EU, the USA, therefore they provoke the people.

This is so. The situation with the 2,5 monthly stand of Maidan has become a cold shower for many naive europhiles believing in "West will help us" stories. Month after month, Europe and the United States say some words about sanctions, but things do not go beyond words. Problem. The opposition, by its naivety, also thought that it would be enough to show terrible pictures from Kiev so that the West would run to help shoot Yanyk. And then a bummer. And why? Because everyone depends on each other, and Yanukovych is an element included in this system of dependencies. You can’t just take it and remove it without destroying the entire chain. Trying to do this in Syria cost 120 thousand lives. Yanukovych signed contracts with Shell and Chevron for 20 billions of dollars. Who will guarantee them? Yatsenyuk? Tymoshenko? Poroshenko? Or maybe Klitschko? Are they able to control the crowd? And if not ways? And how will Russia react to this? And if they lose, and Yanukovych remains, maybe he will give the shale to Russia?
And Nayem and the other gold company of Ukrainian journalism all the time offer to look at the gold toilet. Because we are in the ass, that they do not let us go further than the toilet.

[222222]

morpex -DAOSS - Fidget -... get a pediatric doctor from Kharkov .. don’t look that echo ..
Evgeny Komarovsky: “The opposition of the West and the East - it is also largely artificial”
3 02 14 g on the air of "Echo of Moscow" Evgeny Olegovich Komarovsky - children's doctor of Ukraine.
"E.KOMAROVSKY - Events, by and large, I consider as inevitable, that is, sooner or later something like this had to happen. And the incentive basis for what happened is what I call a crisis of statehood. I will explain what it is about. The state has ceased to fulfill its basic functions. This is something to which we need to return. This is not at all obvious to many people. People have generally forgotten why the state exists. When people unite into a state, into a people, they decide that there are certain problems of society that need to be delegated to someone, it is necessary to delegate, so that someone can organize the protection of society from enemies; help in case of illness, raising children, maintaining order. And that is why people come up with a state. "
.. "That is, very skillful puppeteers are trying to push people away from real problems, which, in fact, came to light on the street, and put completely different slogans into their hands and their languages ​​..." ..
.. "there is a real problem: a budget was adopted, in which the police were given three times more money than for medicine, and it was accepted. And this is not discussed by a single living soul - they are discussing the fact that you cannot hold a meeting with a helmet on your head, you I believe that the person who invented this is a great puppeteer, that is, Papa-Carlo does not get in. But the question is that the bulk of people do not catch what we have turned the whole country into puppets. I really want to look into the eyes of the puppeteers, I really want to understand what he wants from us all? Why, why did we do him bad? ",,,
.. "We have a bunch of kings: the director of the school is the king, the director of the kindergarten is the king. And where is the law?"
http://interview.komarovskiy.net/intervyu-na-radio-exo-moskvy.html
http://video.komarovskiy.net/doktor-komarovskij-na-radio-exo-moskvy-efir-ot-03-0
2-2014-g.html

[31231]

The state ceased to fulfill its basic functions.

I do not understand something about this Komarovsky. That is, under Yushcha, the state performed its functions, but under Eunuhovich it refused? At the same time, all this nonsense with "Euromaidan" went not to the refusal of the EU Eunuhovich, but after. And then, when Russian politicians chewed 905 pages of the agreement and what "dividends" it would give, the same protesters changed their slogans to "Get out gang!" and forgot about suction from the EU.
Now, when it is time to admit their mistakes, the majority of Svidomo puffs up and declares that "the people are boiling." Why, then, under Yuscha, the people did not boil? What did they live better?
My opinion is that simply Eunukhovich lost the info war and the unwanted media made him another bandit, like Kuchma.
Even here, I ask many suspects, "Give a serious link to a major theft of the gang?" And in response, all the same arguments "Golden toilet bowl in Mezhigirya and son, trampling on someone's business". Anyone give links to a serious source, thunder?

[morpex]

Quote: 222222

morpex -... get a pediatric doctor from Kharkov ..

THREE-FOUR DAYS AGO I WATCHED HIS INTERVIEW ON "ECHO". LIKED IT. BECAUSE HE TOLD THE TRUTH. AND I ARE A MUCH AGREE WITH HIM. THANKS FOR REMEMBERING.
And in the previous comment I just tried to explain why the West plays cat-and-mouse with an incompetent opposition and an unconcerned opposition.

[31231]

And if they lose, and Yanukovych remains, maybe he will give the shale to Russia?

You know, your comments are sober and sober every time. I hope some Svidomo happens too and they begin to understand where they are dragging the country.
I did not understand the only phrase

And if they lose, and Yanukovych remains, maybe he will give the shale to Russia?

Why does Russia need your shale factory? At our expense, few people have illusions, and you also offer yours.

[120352]

And the whole strategy is to, according to Bismarck, later Dales, and even later Bzhenzinsky not to allow united Russia to recover and thereby weaken it. making a potential victim of the west.

[420482]

As IA Krylov said: "But things are still there!" And there is nothing more to add here.

[Amateur]

Grandfather Krylov said a lot of good things that he was approaching the current situation in Ukraine and around it. Here are some: 1) It’s all your fault that I want to eat ... 2) And you, my friends, don’t sit down - everyone is not good at musicians ... 3) You're gray, and I, my friend, gray-haired, and I know your nature like a wolf .. 4) And Vaska listens, but eats ... 5) ... the cancer backs away, and the pike pulls into the water ... 6) When there is no agreement in the comrades, their work will not work out ... etc. I will not comment. To which of the politicians or states it suits - you will figure it out yourself to the extent of your understanding of the processes.

[AVV]

They are fighting for power and influence, but no one thinks about ordinary people !!! Now the people will be more careful, because they already promised a lot of things, but when they got power, they just threw it !!! And this is not forgotten !!!

[DAOSS]

From, what is not forgotten? 10 years have passed since the Orange Revolution and now, the same orange, fanatical clowns stand on the Maidan and shout glory to Ukraine!

[Lelek]

You are mistaken, dear. The fanatic is disinterested, though a bastard. And these throats are crap for money and not small, besides - also scum.

[Vasyan1971]

And what does the people have to do with it? It is said in black and white - the US and Germany are fighting for the right to appoint an "overseer" in Ukraine. Well, also RUSSIA. What is it ?!

[cobalt]

In addition to the amendments from Klitschko, I propose to write down in the Constitution of Ukraine that a presidential candidate must be a full-time CIA employee (the authenticity of the certificate must be certified by the President of the United States), with at least 10 years of service, have a certificate of completion of the course of a young Bandera (skills in pogroms, arson of villages, construction of barricades, destruction of monuments, etc.) and only with excellent credits, and have the badge "Honored ass licking the West."

[Igor39]

A few brain damage necessarily !!!

[Denis]

Quote: Igor39

A few brain damage necessarily !!!

Or so -

[Kazakhstan]

And even cooler !!!

[DAOSS]

Like schlo, green in the forehead, then green in the forehead!

[Lelek]

In chorus! - "Oh my life is a tin ...".

[Kazakhstan]

Of course it is.

[Kazakhstan]

I agree completely.

[major071]

Disagreements arose between opposition parties that were involved in drafting the new Constitution.

Well, how can we not recall Krylov's fables: "Once a swan with cancer pike"!

[Egoza]

Quote: major071

Well, how can we not recall Krylov's fables: "Once a swan with cancer pike"

The Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Vladimir Rybak said that President Viktor Yanukovych agrees to create a coalition Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, but its composition should be apolitical and “put only economic problems in the state first”.Rybak recalled that Yanukovych proposed that the representative of the opposition take the post of prime minister, and that the head of parliament considers “the ultimatum and dictate” to demand the right of the opposition to form the entire government.
XXXX
Only the brethren of the Pechersk Lavra may remain apolitical in Kiev. Invite them to the kingdom!

[anarch]

Quote: Egoza

Only the brethren of the Pechersk Lavra may remain apolitical in Kiev. Invite them to the kingdom!

They won’t go.
And they’ll do it right.
At the forum, thoughts sounded about someone with epaulettes who are not afraid to put things in order.
But it looks like in Ukraine there are none. At least among the generals.

[Kazakhstan]

Krylov is a seer!

[infinite silence ...]

Quote: Kazakhstan

Krylov - a seer

From century to century, human addictions and sins are unchanged ...))) The world is ruled by a thirst for power, oil and money. I think he will be a visionary in his works for a long time ....

[ia-ai00]

Of course, if the country falls apart, many people will suffer, which is very bad. But “ideally,” in my opinion, if the Westerners merged with the “longed-for” gayrope, and fully “enjoyed” the “cheese,” and the laboring southern part of the country would become independent, it would only serve it for the GOOD: - would get rid of freeloaders-Westerners, and also the country would get rid of the internal enemy - the Nazis-Bandera!

[Rurikovich]

The West of western Ukraine does not need anything, there has long been no production there, and the population is already serving abroad. They need to destroy the East and South. After all, there are pro-Russian sentiments and all heavy industry.

[I am a Russian]

Quote: Rurikovich

West of western Ukraine does not need anything

And it seems to me that zapadentsy (but not all) is a well-managed herd ... can find application.

[Egoza]

Quote: Rurikovich

West of western Ukraine doesn’t need anything,

How to say! While they are fighting here, Poland is picking up a silent glanders!
The Polish State Oil and Gas Company (PGNiG) discovered a natural gas field in the Subcarpathian Voivodeship.
This was reported by the press service of the company PGNiG.
The gas field found is located near Przemysl in the area of ​​Zalesye and Skopov.
“The first well drilled in this section, Sedletskaya-6K, reached a depth of 2016 m. The results were better than previously expected. A gas with a high methane content, containing no harmful substances, was produced. Currently, work is underway to confirm open resources, as well as drilling several new wells, ”the company said.
According to preliminary estimates, gas reserves in the field amount to several billion cubic meters. m. Also, in parallel, work is ongoing to put into operation the existing wells Sedletskaya-2, Sedletskaya-3, Sedletskaya-4 and Sedletskaya-5.
According to the company, the gas produced from the sub-Carpathian fields will be supplied to PGNiG.
http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/244509
XXXX
How beautifully it is said "on the border with Ukraine" And from our side there are deposits! just need to WORK!

[Kazakhstan]

Capitalism - is capitalism, well rich, but not to the people.

[120352]

And in Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and the United States, I did not meet anyone who is not well, even though there is capitalism.

[anarch]

Quote: 120352

And in Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and the United States, I did not meet anyone who is not well, even though there is capitalism.

A lot of. But they are especially not allowed to speak out, which means to consolidate

[120352]

Do you have relatives there? Or are you there more often than me?

[Sour]

Quote: Kazakhstan

Capitalism - is capitalism, well rich, but not to the people.

But under socialism, no one is good. Even the members of the Politburo felt bad, otherwise they would not have ruined the USSR.
Under socialism, he lived for more than 30 years. The rich did not seem to be there, but the poor were above the roof. There were no fewer than now. More likely more.

[ing]

Gas and oil have been produced in western Ukraine for a very long time (remember I. Franko "Borislav Smeetsya"), only the reserves are very depleted and the remains are small, so the Poles are not threatened to become Gayrop Qatar

[ing]

Gas and oil have been produced in western Ukraine for a very long time (remember I. Franko "Borislav Smeetsya"), only the reserves are very depleted and the remains are small, so the Poles are not threatened to become Gayrop Qatar

[chisya]

You say that all the problems are that the southeast feeds the west. Separate as you like, but if the thieves are in power, there will be no sense in this. And internal enemies were created artificially, it’s easier to steal, there is someone to blame, the dollar jumped by 50%, it’s the Maidan that’s to blame, nothing else, then it returned to its previous value, and, what a surprise, the banks of the president’s children welded 500 million greens on this .

Russia has a major geopolitical task. Russia is ready to give money, but Russia will not care much about what will happen to them, the main thing is that the leader be loyal to the Kremlin. Without strict control, any amount can be poured into Ukraine, the people will remain poor, because they will plunder under 0.

With people who love their country, Ukraine could become a normal country, and so we have what we have. And the point here is not Bendera’s at all.

As for the EU, they need Ukraine, as a market for their goods, with open borders, our production will stupidly die, because the price of Western goods is lower and the quality is higher. Hi total corruption. Our manufacturer will not stand the competition. But it’s even better if Ukrainians can’t leave the EU, they only need qualified personnel, and even now they can find a place. There is no point in completely destroying the economy of Ukraine, because who needs such a sales market that cannot buy anything. Rather, the EU will simply buy up everything else that can potentially be profitable, modernize it, maybe under its own brands. Ordinary people will be laborers at these enterprises. In general, the situation will be better than now from the point of view of a simple layman. Products will be cheaper, better, higher standard of living. But as such, Ukraine will not be ... there will be a territory ruled by proteges without any own national idea. On the other hand, Russia can hardly offer something better, oligarchs will also buy what they can, and local leaders will also plunder all the allocated funds.

In general, as for me, wherever Ukraine goes, the prospects as an independent country are practically zero.

ps I’m wondering, those who write about ge * in here were in the EU at least once. Reminds horror stories about decaying capitalism, honestly. Complete nonsense. In truth, Russian horror stories about this in the EU are similar to the stereotype of bears, balalaikas and nesting dolls. Probably nothing more to frighten than just a simple Russian layman. NATO is no longer scary, now the main threat with the * cc minority This is how the government protects ordinary Russian citizens, buying up cottages in London under the guise of

[sssla]

Quote: chisya

for the price of western goods is lower, and the quality is higher

Give an example pzhlst

Quote: chisya

In general, the situation will be better than now from the point of view of a simple layman.

Need to add --- Habit with income from .....

Quote: chisya

. Products will be cheaper, better, higher standard of living.

Quote: chisya

I’m wondering, those who write about ge * in here were in the EU at least once. Reminds horror stories about decaying capitalism, honestly. Complete nonsense. In truth, Russian horror stories about this in the EU are similar to the stereotype of bears, balalaikas and nesting dolls. Probably nothing more to frighten than just a simple Russian layman. NATO is no longer scary, now the main threat from the * cc minority This is how it protects the government of ordinary Russian citizens, buying up cottages in London under the guise of

Your naivety and the GRES turbine, then we will have free electricity

[chisya]

Quote: sssla

Give an example pzhlst

I will say in general, because it is incorrect to directly compare, the distribution of prices is uneven. I will say at the level of Germany / Poland to Ukraine.

Which is cheaper:
1. The food. (dairy products, meat, coffee, sausages, fish, hard pasta, etc.) In Germany, it’s cheaper by 10 percent, in Poland by 20-25 percent.
2. Restaurants. In Germany, a decent dinner for two costs 30 euros, in Poland 20, in Ukraine 400 hryvnias. Moreover, the size and weight of servings in Germany / Poland is larger than ours.
This does not apply to brand-name establishments. In general, with food places there are better than ours.
3.Clothing. Brands are 2 times cheaper than ours. Ordinary clothes are 50 percent cheaper. Even in Russia, clothing prices are better than Ukrainian. In Ukraine, the price of clothes is simply inadequate.
Here it is worth saying that the control standards are more stringent and the quality of goods is high in relation to Ukrainian.

4. Cars. The market for used cars is 50-200% cheaper. Here you can take for 3-5 thousand euros in very good condition. (Well, purely for example, the Pegeot 308 of 2010 costs 5 thousand euros in Poland, it can be cheaper. In Ukraine, the price will be 10-12 thousand. From the passenger compartment for 20- 30% cheaper.

What is more expensive:

1. Medicines. Much more expensive, but here you will not buy a chalk tablet under the guise of a brand. There is no sense in comparing the quality here. In Ukraine, you can heal so that you throw your hooves and this is even from the state. procurement, the same vaccines for children.
2. Housing / utilities. Rent is definitely more expensive. In Germany for 3 people, the light is somewhere around 80 euros / month, water - 60, gas - 100.

To summarize this way, eating and dressing in the EU is cheaper. Just buy a car is not a problem. And the quality of the goods is higher. Utility costs are more, very expensive medicine, but salaries are much higher than Ukrainian ones.

Accordingly, with open borders, even if the salaries of Ukrainians remain as they are now, clothes and food will be cheaper and the market for supported cars. As for a simple layman, this is very attractive.

But of course this is my IMHO.

I also want to add that in Ukrainian conditions the production of goods is very expensive. For sometimes the amount of the bribe exceeds the cost of the goods themselves. And for the end consumer, the price is inadequate. Making an acceptable price kills the quality of the goods. Ukraine can do it qualitatively, but in conditions of total corruption, the price will be unrealistic for a simple consumer.

[120352]

And in the States, everything is cheaper. Including electricity, fuel, medicines. But medical care is much more expensive. And a pack of cigarettes from 8 bucks. Although, he lay down in our hospital, but on a good day for 10 days, I had to pay 3500 euros. They have about the same.
Food products in their price do not move at all. They have such a law. Two-story home in Oregon of about 200sqm. + a garage for 2 cars costs like a St. Petersburg three-room apartment without finishing. Ford Focus in the cabin from 6 thousand bucks. Jeans in Fred Mayer, World Mart, Burlington, etc. from 14, the same number and pure leather sneakers, which is typical, always on the leg. You can dine for 5-7 bucks. Without alcohol. Yes, it is not served in restaurants. There are bars for that. Restrictions at the bar. No more than three plates of 25-30 grams per mouth. A bottle of the absolute in a specialty store, otherwise they don't sell it, liter, 16 bucks. Very cheap city transport and better developed than ours. Yes, which is especially important, they will not try to "throw" you anywhere. It is not accepted by them. The minimum wage per hour from this year is from 10 bucks. So Russia, if we proceed from this, has reasons to protest. But there are no profits from protests, only one damage and the result, as a rule, is the opposite.

[Cristall]

I certainly understand that the prices are ambiguous, but 400 UAH is what kind of lunch is this ???? Yes, for the same pennies you can barbecue at least 4-5 servings of 160-200 grams to collect! We somehow ordered Shashlyk a village for 300 UAH (we were thrown off 50% for the stock) so there are 5 skewers and a bunch of potatoes for 5-6 people ... I barely eaten half the meat, and ate the rest the next day.
Although, of course, if you are talking about delicacies ... a friend in Spain ate seafood cheaper than here, but meat is more expensive ..
Compared with Polish goods - yes the same price - just the categories are more expensive, but there are cheaper.
At the same time I live in the most expensive (after Kiev) city of Ukraine. As for clothes - yes, you can buy it in the city at different prices. You can even laugh and buy the same dress for 20 UAH and for 200 ...

[Cristall]

I certainly understand that the prices are ambiguous, but 400 UAH is what kind of lunch is this ???? Yes, for the same pennies you can barbecue at least 4-5 servings of 160-200 grams to collect! We somehow ordered Shashlyk a village for 300 UAH (we were thrown off 50% for the stock) so there are 5 skewers and a bunch of potatoes for 5-6 people ... I barely eaten half the meat, and ate the rest the next day.
Although, of course, if you are talking about delicacies ... a friend in Spain ate seafood cheaper than here, but meat is more expensive ..
Compared with Polish goods - yes the same price - just the categories are more expensive, but there are cheaper.
At the same time I live in the most expensive (after Kiev) city of Ukraine. As for clothes - yes, you can buy it in the city at different prices. You can even laugh and buy the same dress for 20 UAH and for 200 ...

[Hug]

Re .: chisya
So to summarize, then ..... very expensive medicine

Only now the Germans do not know anything about this. Because we are insured: if there is a threat to life, then the most expensive operation (the most expensive treatment) will be done for you for free - everything will be paid by Krankenkasse.

For the rest, I agree with you.

[anarch]

Quote: Kram

then the most expensive operation (the most expensive treatment) will be done for free - everything will be paid by Krankenkasse.

Coperfield - in Russian.

[120352]

I won’t say anything about Germany. I didn’t get sick there. But in 1995, my daughter, an American student with incomes that earned herself (and then the minimum wage was 5,5 bucks an hour, and they allowed me to work 4 hours a day) + that my parents would send me to the hospital. An urgent and expensive operation and long postoperative care were required. We pay first, then they treat you. There, at first they did everything that was required, although they knew about her income. Then they billed. The size of it was such that neither my wife nor my whole family would be able to repay it in a lifetime. The issue was resolved simply and quickly by the Americans themselves through charitable foundations. At the same time, Coperfield was not nearby. It's just a tradition: helping people. And it doesn’t matter whether this is capitalism or the Martian form of government. There, it’s not possible to accept people to finish off as we do, to drag the last out of them, like ours, but it’s customary to sympathize and take part in the fate of other people, regardless of their status.

[sssla]

з

Quote: chisya

To summarize this way, eating and dressing in the EU is cheaper. Just buy a car is not a problem. And the quality of the goods is higher. Utility costs are more, very expensive medicine, but salaries are much higher than Ukrainian ones.

You know, I’ll answer you simply I also have relatives and friends in the same Germany, and I don’t know how people live there, and I don’t know the bulk of the people from the Internet and the mass of people. True, your products are cheaper, but by percent and not by tens and not all products and cars are a third or even a half (I don’t talk about B.U.) what is cheaper here But you don’t talk about how many people give loans for cars for all com services auto loans other taxes payment for kindergarten goes for gasoline and stuff and stuff, and an average salary of between 1500 and 3000 euros per month. And you talk about it too, and not just that BU cars and some products are cheaper And I ask you to remove the pink glasses through which you look to the West

[anarch]

Quote: chisya

To summarize this way, eating and dressing in the EU is cheaper. Just buy a car is not a problem. And the quality of the goods is higher. Utility costs are more, very expensive medicine, but salaries are much higher than Ukrainian ones.

As in the old joke:
Are you very sure that Europe will give this to Ukraine?
What is calling her in the EU in order to benefit free?
Do you believe in the disinterestedness of Europe?
Are there any past or present examples?

PS The questions are rhetorical, i.e. - not requiring an answer due to its obviousness.

Russia needs Ukraine (and Belarus).
We need as states with strong industrial potential and not just solid, but unshakably firm allied positions.
Such an alliance will be self-sufficient in the raw, industrial, food, scientific, and defense sectors.
SELF-SUFFICIENT, i.e. independent of external influences.
WE HAVE A GENERAL FAITH, WE HAVE A COMMON ROOT.
Cheap sausage is a weak base for unification.

[infinite silence ...]

Quote: chisya

Accordingly, with open borders, even if the salaries of Ukrainians remain as they are now, clothes and food will be cheaper and the market for supported cars.

How did you get the idea that the borders would be open? ... Where did you get such information from? ... The decision to open the borders, even when joining the association, will take another 5 years. How did you get the idea that Europe is waiting for you? with such a level of unemployment!
Of course, if it’s not shameful for you to do a low-paying job by European standards ... Because the Europeans themselves do not want to do it!
As for the prices ... Everything is relative! Watching where and at what prices to look closely! Judging by the price of lunch you called, this is a pretty decent restaurant ...
Total. Everywhere is good, where we are not ... To bark and to blame is easiest.

[120352]

And not only electricity will be free, but you will be paid at gas stations for refueling.

[Anper]

Quote: 120352

The minimum wage per hour from this year is from 10 bucks.

Yes, it is heavenly grace, earned by honest labor for honest resources of its own. And why did they need dirty Latins, Afghanistan, Iran, and that Arab arc, one headache. And what they do not like about Russia: they probably want to improve public transport and remove a bully of Navalny, so that there are no protests, because there is no profit from protests, but only one damage and the result is usually the opposite.

[Anper]

Quote: chisya

Reminds horror stories about decaying capitalism, honestly.

About rotting capitalism.
1) The niece is married to a Pole, lives in Poland, a small child is 6 months. They rent a good apartment. Husband Lukasz works day and night as a sales agent. He pushes her to work - there is not enough money for an ordinary life. A trip to the cinema is planned in advance - otherwise they will not be brought down ends meet, and this despite the fact that the products are cheaper than ours. Guests - only a bottle of wine and this is not from a healthy lifestyle - at a wedding in Ukraine the groom got drunk to such an extent that the expression "to a pig's squeal" was embodied in life. We brought his retired father an old-fashioned machine for stuffing cigarettes, a pack of ordinary cigarettes costs 30 euros. It's not customary to talk about the size of the salary. They don't like gays, but they beat them on the sly. And so everything is clean, decent.
2) A friend of 10 years old worked with his wife in Portugal, an avid fisherman, returned, bought an apartment. When asked why he didn’t stay, he said that he didn’t get into his head like a country surrounded by water on all sides does not have the right to fish. Inland waters, fishing is also prohibited, and what they offer in return, he called (I apologize) for dry jerking off.
To say more about Lifestyle unacceptable. Or acceptable to those who are cosmopolitan. It doesn’t matter that you take out the pots with a doctor’s diploma or you sew linen with a teacher’s diploma, even having formalized yourself - the main thing is that you live in Europe.

[chisya]

Quote: Anper

The lifestyle itself is unacceptable.

I completely agree with this. A lot is unusual for us. Not everyone wants to live in the same Germany. There are friends living in Poland, but working in Germany in shifts. For ordinary life, the level of salaries in Poland is sufficient. But for example, building your own house from scratch is already quite problematic, without tightening your budget (you need to practically abandon everything within 5-7 years). Therefore, for several years they have been working in the same Germany, but they are building in Poland. For they say the mentality is nevertheless closer to us. Germany categorically did not like them. And Poland is liked firstly by its cleanliness, and secondly by the observance of laws. By the way, I did not meet with hatred towards Russian speakers. There are perhaps retirees senile, or potentially nationalists, but they, like pid * races are not visible But everyone knows what they are. As a rule, this is some kind of procession or the like.

[Anper]

Quote: chisya

I completely agree with this

So this is exactly what we are talking about from the very beginning of the Maidan! After all, it’s not Europe that is offered - a soul devoured by things and a sleeping mind in exchange for a change in the historical vector of the Ukrainian people.
Why would the Far East or Siberia be so worried here at the forum for Ukraine? And here, the majority have the perception of the world around them;

So the respected SORPEKH is suffering with everyone, trying to pull such a vision of the world onto the Maidan, to justify this Maidan. And that, in essence, cannot be. The motto of the Maidan is not "Glory to Ukraine" - the motto of the Maidan, let us sleep sweetly and eat fatly in Europe, and the state on our side. Moreover, there is a reason. This is a bright dream, and Putin, a scoundrel , does not let there.

[chisya]

Quote: Anper

The Maidan motto is not "Glory to Ukraine" - the Maidan motto, let us sleep sweetly and eat fatty in Europe, and the state by our side.

Absolutely. It would be nice for the majority to rush to Europe to live, a little less people support purely for the sake of overthrowing the current government and in the hope that it will not be any worse, someone else will come and become a little better. Moreover, the achievements under the USSR in the western regions are not particularly perceived, for such as the occupation regime. And without the USSR, Ukraine, as a country, has no particular achievements. For as such, Ukraine was not within the borders. There was land, there were people, but there was no separate state either on the map or in the minds. So they are trying to assert themselves and find at least some heroes, etc.

But here we must pay tribute to the education of an independent. The younger generation does not see Ukraine with Russia for the most part. And the old generation will not do much weather.

As if there is someone to look at. The same television promotes the beautiful life of the elite. And who is our elite? He cut the dough in any way and went west himself. What to want from ordinary people ...

[kare]

An interesting approach. Then it was necessary to pay tribute to the formation of National Socialist Germany. Well, what was Auschwitz, Majdanek, Buchenwald, they had such an education, no more and no less. You venerable drew an appetizing gingerbread, but forgot about the whip used by the newly-made EU countries for the geyropa. Yes, and your young generation, which you had a place to mention, doesn’t shine with intelligence and efficiency.

[infinite silence ...]

Quote: chisya

The younger generation does not see Ukraine with Russia for the most part

This unfortunate fact speaks only about the level of education! With the transition of the Ministry of Education to the European credit transfer system for assessing education, the level of knowledge has not fallen ... HE DROPPED !!!
But we will not talk about young people, since the average age of the Ukrainian population is 40,4 years ... And this is for the most part still thinking and hopefully understanding that a truck with gingerbread cookies, when entering the European Union, roll over every day on the street will not be! And what a cheese in a mousetrap, for a clever mouse!

[sssla]

Quote: Anper

.The Maidan motto is not "Glory to Ukraine" - the Maidan motto, let us sleep sweetly and eat fatly in Europe, and the state on its side. Moreover, there is a reason. This is a bright dream, and Putin, a scoundrel, will not let us go there.

HA))))))))) Plus

[sssla]

Quote: chisya

For ordinary life, the level of salaries in Poland is sufficient.

Dear following in your channel, I’ll say that there are enough ordinary Russian Ukrainian and so on salaries for ordinary life

[sssla]

Quote: Anper

The lifestyle itself is unacceptable, or acceptable to those who are cosmopolitan. It doesn’t matter that you take out the pots with a doctor’s diploma or you sew linen with a teacher’s diploma, even having formalized yourself - the main thing is that you live in Europe.

When they will understand it, but it will be too late. Right now, their belly is ruled by "Tama products are cheaper and beautiful and the same apples and tomatoes shine" - just do not think about what GMOs are stuffed with and what are processed What infuriates Germany and a couple of other countries for comparison And you compare with Bulgaria Romania, etc. Then the conversation will be

[zzz]

Quote: Anper

And so everything is clean, decent.

So calm there in the cemetery
Do not see enemies or friends
Everything is cultured, everything is decent
Exceptional grace.

V.Vysotsky

[Setrac]

Quote: chisya

for the price of western goods is lower, and the quality is higher. Hi total corruption.

Corruption has nothing to do with the quality of goods. The main factor affecting the price of a product is the climate, the colder and harsher the climate, the more expensive the goods. In a cold, harsh climate, costs are higher, and the growth is avalanche-like. Compared to Russia, the cost of goods produced will be 1.5-2 times lower in Eastern Europe, 2-3 times lower in Western Europe, 8 times lower in China, ASEAN and other countries with a favorable climate than in Russia.
That is why the countries of Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, are not going anywhere from Russia. They will lose the competitive struggle in the West (they have already lost, production has died), in the Russian market they will have an advantage over the Russians.
I want to pay attention to the higher the added value - the greater the loss due to the climate.

Quote: chisya

Ordinary people will be laborers at these enterprises.

There will be no enterprises; the west will not build them for you.

Quote: chisya

Reminds horror stories about decaying capitalism, honestly. Complete nonsense. In truth, Russian horror stories about this in the EU are similar to the stereotype of bears, balalaikas and nesting dolls.

No horror stories, bare economy, the language of numbers.

[chisya]

Quote: Setrac

Corruption has nothing to do with the quality of goods.

Truth? This is only true in the domestic market among manufacturers of your own country. Then corruption can be ruled out.

Let's say you produce some kind of product. Its analogue can be brought from abroad. Only in countries where the law is respected, the pricing of this product will be completely different.

You have made something with us, in addition to the cost of the product itself, you still need to lay a decent amount for bribes to various authorities. Firefighters, police, sanitation, etc. Otherwise, it will not work.

In different industries, the percentage goes differently, but the cost of goods, taking into account bribes, can easily be + 100% or more. And without bribes you will not sell anything, you will be closed very quickly.

And in pursuit of a competitive price, the manufacturer is trying to make candy out of shit. Cheaper materials, etc. To reduce the cost.

Quote: Setrac

Compared with Russia, the cost of goods produced will be 1.5-2 times lower in Eastern Europe, 2-3 times lower in Western Europe

Now, take your cost and multiply by 2, taking into account bribes, the price will be the same as in Europe, only the quality will be worse. A similar product from a normal material will cost more than a European one.

And you say corruption does not affect quality.

So to be precise, corruption still affects the final price, in this case it’s not entirely correct to talk about production costs. But still...

[Setrac]

Quote: chisya

You have made something with us, in addition to the cost of the product itself, you still need to lay a decent amount for bribes to various authorities. Firefighters, police, sanitation, etc. Otherwise, it will not work.

In other countries, they give bribes in the same way, Russia is no different from the rest of the world.

Quote: chisya

And you say corruption does not affect quality.

In countries such as the United States and China, corruption is no less; in the United States, corruption is small from a legal point of view, because it, this corruption, is legalized. Climate is crucial, it determines the lower limit of the value of the goods - the cost, in addition, demand determines the upper limit of the value of the goods - the price.

[chisya]

Quote: Setrac

In other countries, they give bribes in the same way, Russia is no different from the rest of the world.

Nevertheless, small and medium-sized businesses are not as oppressed as ours. Bribes are everywhere, but they have it more common at higher levels. And if they say it by the hand, oh you will be punished more likely than ours. At least there is no such circus of judging like our deputy ministers.

Quote: Setrac

Climate is crucial, it determines the lower limit of the value of the goods - the cost

Well, that one can’t argue ... But our bribes will affect the final price.

[xan]

Quote: Setrac

Climate is crucial, it determines the lower limit of the value of the goods

No, not the climate. In addition to the climate, there is the price of raw materials, labor and energy. All this is cheaper in Russia compared to Europe. Raw materials and energy in Russia will always be cheaper.
And further. Sweden is a northern country, although it lives richer than Germany. Why is the climate not affected there?

[Setrac]

Quote: xan

Sweden is a northern country, although it lives richer than Germany. Why is the climate not affected there?

Northern Sweden - yes, Sweden is cold - no, Sweden is warmer than Kuban, and certainly NOT colder than Germany. Probably the name "Gulf Stream" doesn't mean anything to you.

Quote: xan

In addition to the climate, there is the price of raw materials

It’s MUCH more expensive to extract oil in Siberia than in Venezuela or Kuwait. To extract and produce ANY resources in Russia is more expensive than in warmer regions of the earth, that is, everywhere except Antarctica.

The high price of oil in Europe is due to the fact that it is not enough, and not to the fact that it is more expensive to extract it in Europe.

[zzz]

Quote: Setrac

Probably the name "Gulf Stream" doesn't mean anything to you.

And you, probably, too ... The Gulf Stream has long stopped))))))

[120352]

Open the faucet with the beauty of a little girl, the Gulf Stream will flow. And in nature, he, fortunately, has fully recovered. Otherwise, the ice age would return. Look out the window, and now it's February. It used to be the coldest month. And to Sweden (do you often go there?) It is much closer than to us.

[xan]

Quote: Setrac

Northern Sweden - yes, Sweden is cold - no, Sweden is warmer than Kuban, and certainly NOT colder than Germany. Probably the name "Gulf Stream" doesn't mean anything to you.

Why write nonsense, it's easy to check. Similarly, apparently you need to relate to the rest of the information from you.

Quote: Setrac

It’s MUCH more expensive to extract oil in Siberia than in Venezuela or Kuwait. It is more expensive to extract and produce ANY resources in Russia than in warmer regions of the earth

Everything seems to be correct. But there is one "but". It is cheaper to extract and produce, but only there would be something to extract. You won’t rub in that the Europeans buy Russian resources cheaper than they cost Russia? The countries of Africa and Latin America rich in raw materials live poorer than Russia, although it is warmer there, and Canada, similar in climate, is richer.
Your theory does not work.

[Setrac]

Quote: xan

Why write nonsense, it's easy to check.

However, you did not check! Open the climate map and see the average annual temperatures, see the winter-summer temperature difference.

Quote: xan

But you will not rub that Europeans buy Russian resources cheaper than they cost Russia?

The high price of oil on the world market is due to the predominance of demand over supply, nevertheless, Russian oil is almost the most expensive at cost.

Quote: xan

The countries rich in raw materials in Africa and Latin America live poorer than Russia, although it is warmer there

Who is poorer and who is richer, it all depends on how this or that country was able to protect its economy from Western expansion. Nevertheless, investors prefer to invest in backward countries with a favorable climate, rather than in Russia.

Quote: xan

and climate-like Canada is richer.

Canada is warmer than Russia, in those areas of Canada where people live like in Sochi, the rest of Canada is not populated.
This is not my theory.

[31231]

You have made something with us, in addition to the cost of the product itself, you still need to lay a decent amount for bribes to various authorities. Firefighters, police, sanitation, etc. Otherwise, it will not work.

I don’t know what country you speak for, but compared to the beginning of the 2000s, bribery has fallen dramatically. If in 2006-07, bribes were simply extorted, but now they often even refuse gifts. If they prefer to take bribes, then in serious proportions, but don’t worry about trifles. Because, for 10 thousand, you’ll get the condition, what kind of lam. Now merging any official or civil servant is easy. If you are honest, it’s easy to catch an official on a bribe. And no one will cover it, unless it is of course close to the Kremlin. And if the local authorities try to cover it, then it is easy to breed srach in the media and networks. And the punishment will come from above. Do not be shy to write to Putin or his representatives. I know many examples here in Eburg when they wrote complaints to the local protege of the GDP and he punished the guilty.

[pawel57]

I agree in many ways. Pushing everything to Europe, Amerov, Russia is a profanation. All of these countries + treacherous policies of the country's leaders led to a social explosion. The population of Ukraine, as an active part of the Slavs, opposed their slavery. Maidan, as an indicator of public sentiment, showed that the lower classes do not want such a life and the upper circles cannot give them a decent existence. Not without foreign intervention, each country pursues its own interests. Of the healthy performances, I note the Right Front (I don’t know if I wrote it correctly). I like the position of their leaders for a strong, independent Ukraine, a collector of Russian land. President Vetrenko, a good tribune, well-educated, intelligent and will not hand over his green paper. Be sure to remove Yanukovych. From the state. by reorganization, a federation is perhaps the worst option is a confederation. The worst collapse and crushing with a possible departure to Russia industrial areas + Crimea. There is nothing to do in Russia, the captured country, the genocide of Russians, the war in the Caucasus, in the near future, the Maidan with the civil war + split of the Russian Federation. Judging by the events in Ukraine, I judge by the media and the Internet and communication in nete. To the border with Ukraine no more than 80km. in the summer I rest in Crimea, Ukrainians are half kindred.

[120352]

Regarding the oppression of Ukraine, it is strongly said. It's just not clear who is oppressing her, poor? Could it be that Russia, completely eliminated from it after its betrayal in 1991?

[I am a Russian]

Quote: chisya

With people loving their country, Ukraine could become a normal country

Yes you are right. And the question begs - This is how much you need not to love your homeland, Ukraine, to disconnect from the USSR?

[Lelek]

The first tranche from Russia was safely eaten, and the face is turned back. So, our rulers need to think twice whether Russia’s taxpayers ’money should be poked into this black irrevocable hole.

[Kazakhstan]

I agree fellow countryman.

[DAOSS]

There is no need for you gentlemen Russians, to sow separatism in Ukraine, such statements and appeals will not lead to anything good! And when the thought comes to you to advise Ukraine to get rid of problem regions, think about your Caucasus, are you ready to give it up to nowhere and "live in peace"?

[Ustian]

Quote: DAOSS

Nothing for you gentlemen Russians to sow separatism in Ukraine

Separatism has been sown for a long time and has grown the size of a healthy hogweed!

Quote: DAOSS

advise Ukraine to get rid of problem regions

That is, the western regions are still problematic, although they are located on the border with the DEMOCRACY? Or are you about Southeast?

Quote: DAOSS

separatism on Ukraine

Isn’t it В Ukraine?

[120352]

Separatism in Ukraine (on the edge of the Russian land, and if not enough, read Shevchenko: "As I die, bury me in the Ukraine") has been sown for a long time. At first, Prince Dmitry Galitsky (from Rurik, by the way) desperately wanted to become a king. The Pope made him king in exchange for the Orthodox faith for the Catholic. This is how Galicia appeared. Then there were many more attempts, including those carried out from outside. Smart people have already written about this here many times, I will just remind you of some milestones.
The ethnonym "Ukrainian" (earlier it was a Little Russian, a Russian Orthodox person, as mentioned in the documents of Bohdan Khmelnytsky and in the story of Gogol Taras Bulba and many other sources. By the way. T. Shevchenko, L. Ukrainka, And Franko and other prominent figures never did not call themselves Ukrainians. Look at the documents) was invented by Otto von Bismarck in 1898 with the aim of dismembering a single, as he believed, people, but they began to use it only in 1916 in the Austo-Hungarian army. Subsequently, the Bolsheviks, who paid for the Brest Peace with a part of the Russian land, also began to use this concept. And the Bolsheviks, as you know, were Russophobes and there were no Russians among their leaders at first.
Today we are witnessing the continuation of the old drama of the dismemberment of a single people with the goal of its absorption and destruction.

[31231]

And when an idea comes to you to advise Ukraine to get rid of problem regions, think about your Caucasus, are you ready to give it up to nowhere and "live in peace"?

Here you are wrong. Our Caucasian problems are becoming less and less every year, but there are more and more Natsiks in Ukraine.

[120352]

You see, this is the observance of the Law of conservation and the manifestation of entropy.
I will explain. The number of normal people and morons (Natsik) all the time is approximately the same. This is the law of conservation.
And entropy is expressed in a constant striving for symmetry, towards zero. If you add those (say, with the "+" sign) and others (say, with the "-" sign), you get zero. Only they are distributed unevenly over the Earth. therefore in some places it seems that one or the other begins to prevail or weaken, but this is only local.

[Gray 43]

Europeans were not fools — they didn’t give credit to Ukraine and democracy didn’t suffer anything, Putin also decided to take a break, because money loves silence and stability.

[Kazakhstan]

I agree, where there is stability, there is money.

[120352]

But he gave three billion out of fifteen!

[Rurikovich]

I wonder after all, how will all this clowning end? But the roots are from the 90s. Selling independence, shying from side to side, depending on who pays the most, inconsistency with the declared demands of the economy and stupid, banal theft insolently. The apogee has come to our days. We are waiting for the interchange

[Luga]

Quote: Rurikovich

We are waiting for the interchange

There will be no denouement. The main, even, perhaps, the only goal of the West is to maintain an eternal mess and crisis in the "independent" state. Because in a state of calm and stability, Ukraine and Russia inevitably begin to converge, this is due to our nature, mentality, economy - everything. And they - Westerners - understand this very well, so their mercenaries try, muddied the water, maidan ...

[Kazakhstan]

Yes, Ukraine and Russia are historically close states in territory and mentality.

[Setrac]

Quote: Kazakhstan

Yes, Ukraine and Russia are historically close states in territory and mentality.

First of all, on the climate. Being determines consciousness.

[120352]

Is Ukraine a State? The original joke. It grew to hetmanism, but to the state ... But there is only one people.

[120352]

In general, there is such a time during the ripening period of the teenage body, the puberty is called. This is when hotstsa sex all the time, and no one gives and therefore all bad. So I want to say the anti-Russian part of Ukraine. (Kharkov, Donetsk, Crimea, Nikolaev, Kherson, Odessa remained, thank God, healthy). Good show off! Come back home, girl. We will wash and replace the underpants. And you’ll earn a meal. Big already.

[demon184]

not from the 90s but from the 40s

[Kazakhstan]

I agree, even earlier.

[120352]

You can give many dates and all will be somewhat correct. But in 1898, when the word "Ukrainian" appeared as an ethnonym, before that there were Little Russians, which was recognized by Little Russians themselves, or rather it will be. Bismarck coined this word.

[Egoza]

Quote: Rurikovich

But the roots are from the 90s.

READ MUST READ !!!!
Ghouls and third ear
For almost three months now, the people of Kiev, who do not see in the embroidered shirt a manifestation of a proud ukrovsky spirit, have been trying to define what is happening in the center of Kiev. And those who live there and even feel great. One of the users of Facebook suggested that there were ra (-o) ghouls there - all this looks very unaesthetic and smells unaromatic. But who are raguli? The peasant answered as best he could: "The expression" raguli "arose at a time when Lviv was Polish, and local West Ukrainian wuyks from neighboring villages worked there for Polish gentlemen."
And he continued: “Lviv was fenced with slings, for which a school was allowed into the city only so that they would work for the Polish lord. After that, these schools and began to be called "raguli" - that is, those who live behind the hornets. "

It's hard to argue with that. Especially taking into account the inhabitants of which regions are represented on this so-called “Euro Maidan”, as they say, they are furious if someone claims that they are not only the Ukrainian people. More precisely - narid. But that's not all. This, so to speak, Euro-maidown “Narid” has already enriched the everyday vocabulary of other things - the non-Galician - “little Ukrainian”, which again everyone was terribly fond of and everyone who needs cannon fodder began to pull over to their side. It is for their bodies and presence (non-presence) on the Maidan that a real struggle began, diverse in form and essence, not knowing moral principles, rejecting conscience and morality ......
http://www.versii.com/news/297117/

[Kazakhstan]

Something is going wrong in the Danish kingdom.

Hamlet.

[120352]

All this fuss on the Maidan from the lack of brains of the Maidan people and the thirst for power among those claiming power. Nobody thinks about Ukraine itself there. As it turns out, Moskali is to blame for this Maidan. Because they do not feed their fill and do not drink drunk just because they are on the Maidan. And yet, interestingly, it turns out that we deprived them of everything. So they are offended.

[alexng]

We are waiting, with, the denouement after the Olympics ... And let's say to the "bluish and oozed" West.
But in fact, it is high time to bring the West to the international Tribunal for a widespread and hopeless lie. It is necessary to initiate such a request ...

[Luzhichanin]

Quote: alexneg

It is necessary to initiate such a request ...

And to whom to initiate this request? everywhere the same thieves and crooks. so bribes from them will be smooth.
Is that Lukashenko to ask that all these reptiles sent to Siberia when crossing the border of Belarus.

[Kazakhstan]

Yes, that is another question.

[Egoza]

Quote: alexneg

We are waiting for the denouement after the Olympics ...

And I hope that a little earlier ... We will start, and there you will help ...

Time "H" is approaching
The protesters in Kiev are required to release nine streets and the Kyiv City State Administration
The liberation of the Kyiv City State Administration and the unblocking of streets will become the main prerequisite for closing the riots in Kiev. This was stated by the prosecutor of the capital Nikolai Beskishky. According to him, it is necessary to unblock nine streets in the city center by dismantling 19 barricades.
“We are talking about the streets of Grushevsky, Gorodetsky, Khreshchatyk, Institutskaya, Trekhsvyatitelskaya, Vladimirsky descent, Prreznoy, Zankovetskaya and Maidan Nezalezhnosti”, the press service of the prosecutor’s office of Kiev quotes Beskishki.

He also noted that a prerequisite is the release of the building of the Kyiv City State Administration.

“At the same time, the law on amnesty does not provide for the mandatory release of streets, venues, squares and squares where peaceful protests and meetings, as well as buildings of non-governmental institutions,” said the prosecutor of the capital.

As ForUm reported, on January 29, the Verkhovna Rada adopted the law "On eliminating the negative consequences and preventing persecution and punishment of persons in connection with events that took place during peaceful assemblies."

On January 31, President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych signed this law. February 1, the document was published. If the protesters do not fulfill the requirements prescribed in the law, it expires on February 17.
http://www.versii.com/news/297257/

[Kazakhstan]

Something will happen after the Olympics.

[seller trucks]

Quote: alexneg

it is time to bring the West to the international Tribunal for a widespread and hopeless lie.

I bet that all sorts of tribunals-shmiburals will make a decision not in our favor, I will only remind you of the "decision" of the Hague court in relation to the Serbian military, I personally do not believe in the loyalty of such courts

[120352]

Alas! After the Olympics, we will have our own entertainment. Muslims are preparing an anti-Russian millionth rally in Moscow. This is planned as a continuation of the Maidan, but these are acts of one play written by our "partners" (read SUPOSTAT) under the dictation of a Russophobe and a Polish Jew (this is not an insult, but a fact) Brzezinski, who was saved by our people from the German fascists. So he still shows his gratitude.

[Arhj]

Everyone is sharing something, but they forgot to ask people again. And in general, what do they share, has Yanukovych already announced his resignation or has the "opposition" won the parliamentary elections?

[ZU-23]

A gang of watering can is inadequate for jerking off reptiles, the usual case is when you squeeze a gang, those who don’t have completely lost their conscience, and others, on the contrary, start gassing on the nerve, and here comes the split.

[tnk1969]

Money can be given, but given only under controlling stakes in the largest strategic industrial companies. In the field of metallurgy, rocket, engine and aircraft manufacturing, shipbuilding shipyards and seaports. And then their local oligarchs will squeeze their asses and reorient to Russia. In terms of their political preferences ...

[VadimSt]

All this, about the same as the daily viewing of one and the same film, somewhere near the devil on the streets, tired of all this, you know that you have already seen enough "to hiccups", but there is no other leisure and entertainment, alas!
In such a situation, they say: - "You saw your eyes that you bought - now eat, at least get out ...".

[Egoza]

Quote: VadimSt

but there is no other leisure and entertainment, alas!

Well, read this here. YOU WILL NOT REGRET!!!!
Decisions of the XNUMXth Maidan Chamber in life!
All of Ukraine shuddered at the powerful strike organized by the true leader of the patriotic mass Vitali Klitschko. The convoy of “Udarovites”, consisting of women, the elderly, children and Klitschko proper, advanced from the fifth tent in the direction of Podil. Kievans with tears in their eyes throw teddy bears, sweets, red rose petals and bricks at the strikers. Everyone is excited because they anticipate the imminent demise of the regime. An hourly strike (from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m.) is a terribly effective weapon in the hands of a rebellious nation.
Imagine that all workers in public toilets posted a “rediscount” sign. The effect is amazing. Millions of people will simultaneously join the ranks of the Maydauns, since in the area of ​​the House of Trade Unions you can spoil everywhere where only the soul of a free Ukrainian wishes. The strategic successes of the Klitschko strike movement include the complete paralysis of the work of the main financial center of the criminal power - Troeschinsky market. For a truly fateful hour, no one will be able to buy Ketai shoes, luxurious plaid trunks and fake Louis Vuitton bags. Thus, the merchants expressed their decisive protest against the arrest of "civil activists", the beating of Tatyana Chernovol and brutal, inhuman torture by Russian special forces of the chubby leader Avtomaydan Dima Bulatov. The capital has not yet seen such a strike .....
http://www.versii.com/news/297209/
And there will be an interesting thread at the Olympics!

[Kazakhstan]

Very powerful article.

[Kazakhstan]

Yes, the situation is this.

[disa]

It's still good that they didn't really take up arms .. let them take power with their throats ... if it works out, but apparently really "swan with cancer pike" As soon as there was no need for everyone to be friends in a crowd against the Janek, everything really started .... Maybe it is right that the GDP sometimes "levels" its own significance for society? It's hard to "be friends" against him. Disagreements right away and stuff ...

[Egoza]

Quote: disa

It’s good that they really didn’t take up arms.

"... but the bacon needs to be hidden ...."

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine has strengthened the protection of warehouses with weapons and ammunition in connection with the aggravation of the situation in the country, and said. about. Minister of Defense Pavel Lebedev. "The aggravation of the situation in the country forced the Armed Forces to strengthen the protection of warehouses with weapons and ammunition," he said. about. the head of the defense department. According to him, this was done to avoid the possible capture and use of weapons against civilians. It should be noted that earlier on the SBU website there was a statement from the Anti-Terrorist Center under the special service that the center was forced to alert the counter-terrorism actors on the territory of the state due to the increase in the number of reports of manifestations of a terrorist nature - the mining of objects with mass presence of people. The secret service also announced the threat of explosions, including at high-risk facilities: nuclear and hydroelectric power plants, at the international airports Borispol, Kiev, Lvov, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetsk, Simferopol , at railway and bus stations, main pipelines.
Source: http://polemika.com.ua/news-138374.html

[Kazakhstan]

Yes, in such a situation you should be on your guard.

[disa]

Pintball players are certainly cool ... but they are not very different from the ancestors-fronder. "... but the bacon must be hidden ....", but it is better to eat it yourself and smear it on your mustache, without waiting for competitors. It is of course true ... a cunning tomboy he is cunning, ... it is impossible through the executive branch, it means "mona" and "nuno" (it can and should be) through the terrorist threat .. well, damn it, there is nothing to say about early elections, with a club on the ridge maydanutym, while the people see who protects from whom.

[I am a Russian]

"Klitschko has a residence permit in Germany"

And what ... he is comfortable - he did business in Ukraine - he fled. And when they forget, he will return.

[Kazakhstan]

Yes, a comfortable position.

[demon184]

It is necessary to divide Ukraine.

[morpogr]

When this circus is over, let the people live and work quietly. I'm tired of watching the two big tops of the United States and the EU fight for their clowns.

[Kazakhstan]

I agree, people are tired of living like that.

[Freemason]

The opposition is like a three-headed serpent. And each head broadcasts separately and looks only in its own direction ... As the saying goes, "A fairy tale is a lie and a hint in it" ...

[Kazakhstan]

Like a swan, cancer and a pike.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Kazakhstan

And even cooler !!!

Quote: Kazakhstan

Of course it is.

Quote: Kazakhstan

I agree completely.

Quote: Kazakhstan

I agree fellow countryman.

Quote: Kazakhstan

Agree

Quote: Kazakhstan

I agree, even earlier.

Quote: Kazakhstan

Yes, that is another question

Quote: Kazakhstan

Yes, the situation is this.

Quote: Kazakhstan

Yes, in this situation you should be on your guard

Quote: Kazakhstan

Yes, comfortable position

I like your comments

[major071]

I will become like! Yes, I agree !!!

[morpex]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

I like your comments

Yeah. Capacious however.

[Gecko]

Brevity is the soul of wit...

[Ustian]

On February 12 I noticed an unobtrusive capacity of these, I am not afraid of the word, KOMMIEV
I agree with you.-The most common and steadily gaining popul ..
(http://topwar.ru/index.php?do=lastcomments&userid=86663)

[zzz]

Quote: Farmason

The opposition is like a three-headed serpent. And each head broadcasts separately and looks only in its own direction ... As the saying goes, "A fairy tale is a lie and a hint in it" ...

Something of the Fuhrer of all Galicia is not heard?

[Bosk]

Ukraine needs presidential rule, because in the case of parliamentary rule, the Maidan and other squabbles wake up there all the time, maybe not on the street, but in parliament for sure!

[ed65b]

Quote: cobalt

In addition to the amendments from Klitschko, I propose to write down in the Constitution of Ukraine that a presidential candidate must be a full-time CIA employee (the authenticity of the certificate must be certified by the President of the United States), with at least 10 years of service, have a certificate of completion of the course of a young Bandera (skills in pogroms, arson of villages, construction of barricades, destruction of monuments, etc.) and only with excellent credits, and have the badge "Honored ass licking the West."

And he should also be able to dig dugouts and caches.

[Egoza]

The famous writer Oles Buzina announced on his website that a new US ambassador will soon be in Ukraine. "The other day I wrote that Washington is preparing a rotation "Waitresses" from the State Department Victoria Nuland, who handed out cookies to the militants on the Maidan, and the lover of running around in embroidered shirts - Ambassador to Kiev Jeffrey Payette: “Don't be sad, Vitaly! According to reliable sources, both Nuland and Payette are both already downed ducks. They will soon be dismissed from their posts due to chronic failures in US policy in Ukraine. You will soon have new American "trainers". But the situation is even more tragic for the Americans. Literally everything has to be changed. Apparently, the United States ambassador to Russia will also be replaced. For the same "achievements" as his Kiev colleague. Sergei Leshchenko, a grant-eater from Ukrainskaya Pravda, wrote today: “According to the latest rumors in Washington, the new US ambassador to Russia may be ... our old friend John Tefft. The same one who completed his mission in Ukraine last year, before that worked as an ambassador to Georgia, and now he seems to be applying for a pension ... In second place in the shortlist of potential ambassadors to Russia is Kerry's deputy for arms control, Rose Gottemoeller "... This is not rumors, Seryozha! A pritulova journalist has no right to use rumors. It's true. A brilliant special operation with the famous telephone conversation between Nuland and Payette brought down the entire eastern front of American diplomacy. All these days in Washington they were hysterical: “What else can these Russian James Bond put on the Internet from the telephone revelations of our home-grown Talleyrans? After all, surely they have not been listening to their captivating chatter for the first day? " The State Department is in for a big purge. Steeped in the nepotism of graduates of elite US universities, the bureaucratic institution disgraced the whole world. Even old man Tefft has to be returned from retirement, "he wrote.
Source: http://polemika.com.ua/news-138448.html

[NDR-791]

An ambassador to Russia has already been sent, and he agreed: "yes, I have settled."

[Andrey Peter]

Quote: disa

It's still good that they really didn’t take up arms .. let them take power with their throats ..

This is certainly good, but I think it will not cost without blood anyway. Politics by politics, and the unbridled Maidanut with Bandera so simply will not calm down. With fascism, only weapons and to complete destruction

[parus2nik]

When there is no agreement in the comrades, their business will not go smoothly ..

[Al_lexx]

Cinema and the Germans!
The richest country, the working people, and so bring to full kirdyk. The second ten years have been asking for money ...
Sorry, but I remember the old saying, where hoch..l passed, the Jew has nothing to do.

[xan]

Quote: Al_lexx

where hoch..l passed, the Jew has nothing to do.

there is nothing for anyone to do there
done it yourself, let it go and fix it

[Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations]

Photo to article reminds a bunch of hamsters

[NDR-791]

I already said, but I repeat again:

Why is the GDP silent ?, and I thought _ maybe the first tranche of the loan is for Janek's poverty, but the next ones were held back, like there is no one to talk to. And there and not with anyone - there are no politicians from the strong, only the oligarchs. So maybe they "held back" this is a hint to them? Or with Russia - then we will give money and protect and take away what we will not eat, or with Geyrope - they will take away the last, then do not be offended at us. Here the oligarchs are real and have quieted down - they think which of their own to nominate and pay for in the elections. And three maydanutye heroes-about anything they fill the break.

[Ustas]

Therefore, says Fomenko, one of the possible scenarios for the development of events would be the premiership of Yatsenyuk under the nominal presidency of Klitschko. Such an alignment of political forces could become a kind of compromise between America and the European Union.

Puppets amaze me. They themselves can’t do anything. Independence, damn it.
And even more annoying the US and the EU, Like elephants in a china shop in independent (de jure) states. Someday there will be strength and will give on the tinsel to these, as it were, masters on the planet. History knows many examples.

[NDR-791]

In 2008, they did not support Georgia in terms of any contingent landings, although the Turks would be happy to participate. We expected such a reaction from us and only to determine communication protocols and the speed of passing commands. They will not be at war with us because of a patch of mountainous territory and three ports in the inland sea.

[Vl690006]

I remember how they tried to find out quarter 95 in their show in the bath-whether there were any Yatsenyuk or not. Tymoshenko-actress was especially interested in this, So he put a basin in his bathhouse at his causal place. It is necessary then to find out, Yatsenyuk Jew (or Muslim, all circumcised) or not?

[Stinger]

The opposition rushed forward cowardly. Under the command from the west. Only the teams are weird. "Stop there, come here." And where to run, to whom to surrender? The end, it seems, is that they will surrender to the one who pays the most. On the panel it is so customary.

[Cristall]

no one in their right mind would vote for either Klitschko or JAC .. I don’t know a single person who would be inspired by the desire to vote for them.
Another thing 2015 .. there is no alternative. KPU or UV .. but this policy has already got everyone.
In general, let me work .. I’m on Privoz tomorrow, buy something, VIY watched - a good movie (my wife liked it and went in Russian)
ZY- the last sentence was like from an ordinary average Ukrainian, who was bored to death with "heroi lard" and entertainment in the center of the capital.

[Ustian]

Excuse me generously! Is your physics not what I’m thinking about now? If yes, then a disgusting mine kills a good comment ...

[pawel57]

I agree and support. How can a person who was hit in the head for his entire conscious life, and besides sports (maybe the so-called business), he did nothing. He is not trained, you must have knowledge in many areas of life: politics, industry, science, the media, propaganda and agitation, working with people at different levels, working with documents, experience in government. activities. Now, if 5 years he would have worked actively in one of the authorities, then it could have been put on 2 roles in the state. It’s like in Russia, the Minister of Defense put completely unprepared people starting from Ivanov, or even outright traitors. Nothing more than stupid things. Shoigu set and immediately heaped up business. Now a little subsided and more cautious in decisions. It was just in the Crimea that the races were, and after the show with lunges against the USSR, socialism. They fenced the embankment and looked very unpleasant. Actually, in the presidency of Vetrenko, Prime Minister Tsarev to the government must be representatives of the right sector and foot fans.

[muhomor]

And time goes on, the Olympiad will end soon and the GDP will be free to make decisions that are not popular for the West.

[Ustian]

Quote: Egoza

rotation of the "waitress" from State Department Victoria Nuland

Is the video not too frank? I would take a look.

[Bold]

This is not even a swan, cancer and pike, but, roughly speaking, a pike-cancer swan. What could be common, except for the dough, the Jew Yatsenyuk and anti-Semite Tyagnibok :)

[delfinN]

If Ukraine continues to rush back and forth, it could turn out like this:
Little Johnny was late for school. The teacher asks why.
- because my grandfather, who loved to joke, died.
- and what happened?
- we had a fire.
- and that it burned out?
- No, he was such a joker - he jumped out the window.
- crashed?
- Yes, no, I say he was a joker - the firemen pulled the canvas below, so he pushed himself away from him and jumped back.
- and burned in the fire?
- no-eee, jumped back.
- and crashed.
- Yes, I say the canvas was, he popped back.
- so why did he die?
- In short, firefighters got tired of it, they shot him.

[uizik]

A bazaar about the crisis of statehood in Ukraine was built. Statehood was under the Union. As the USSR collapsed, so slowly the country began to turn into a big booth. And a bacchanalia began - who will fool whom, who will bump anyone! Sheer madhouse! And now we live in a garbage dump and wait for someone to build paradise for us! All prosrali and did not create anything! One illusory appearance of the likeness of the state.

[nnz226]

It is interesting to compare: Russia has a population of approximately 150 million people and the State Duma in 450 deputies, and the independent has a population of 45 million people, and again, 450 deputies are sitting in the Parliament ... Isn’t it too much? Russia even adopted a law on local legislative bodies so that the number of deputies in them would correspond to the population of the subject of the Federation. If only the square kept this proportion: there would be enough parasites for fights in Rada and 150 ... (since there are fewer people in 3 than in Russia, then there should be less in deputies in 3. And there’s no need to yell about the Federation Council and here you can make one gavrik from each administrative unit independent. Anyway, there will be less inviolable budget)

[xan]

Quote: nnz226

Anyway, there will be fewer people who live on the budget untouchable)

Yes, nothing will help. It’s like in a business plan, there must be some advantage on which you can make money. The only real advantage of Ukraine was Russia's attitude towards the fraternal people. It was possible to have both raw materials with energy carriers at preferential prices, and orders from Russia. One could confidently hope that the standard of living would be at least not lower than the Russian one. But your elite has carefully assimilated all this - stupid nationalists won, not constructive pragmatists. Nationalization will not help - you can immediately forget about loans and investments, and the oligarchs in any scenario will remain with money, only the Ukrainian people have nothing to do with it.

[I am a Russian]

Quote: xan

But your elite has carefully assimilated all this - stupid nationalists won, not constructive pragmatists.

.. not only the elite poheril. All residents of the country had their hands.

[120352]

The split is deeper and wider, not in the opposition, but in Ukraine itself. There is no government, it has been dismissed, the president is a political impotent. Ukraine is in a state of chaos, like Russia on the eve of October 1917. Power, in principle, does not belong to anyone and is not needed by anyone. Everyone is afraid of her, because power is responsibility. Neither the thief with a bundle of purchased diplomas Tyagnibok, nor Yatsenyuk, which the Americans already need, nor the Cry, which they abandoned even earlier, do not want her. Whoever wants to take this power. That is, it will bend over and lift. But one thing is clear: Ukraine has split into the West and East-South-East. Calling it "pro-Russian" is wishful thinking. Blood ties alone are not enough. Significant participation is required here. And very delicate. But what will turn out as in the well-known story with Loiko Zabar and Rada: “So don’t get to anyone,” this is almost obvious. The West does not need such a mess. Ukraine will not be accepted either by the EU or by an associated US state. There is every chance that the most passionate part of the population will simply scatter far away to live in peace, guided by the Ukrainian popular principle "My house is on the edge", and the least - maybe, theoretically, will return to a state of savagery, but in practice, no one needs it. Neither the West nor Russia. This means that news should be expected not from the Maidan, but from the West and Russia, which will soon begin negotiations on the further status of the former Ukraine and the division of its territories, population and division of labor. But it will be more difficult with difficulty, since there will remain mainly pensioners with grandchildren and asocial types (drunks and drug addicts).

[anarch]

[media = http: //www.odnoklassniki.ru/video/62389806748975-1]
Anti-Maidan. Self-defense units in the South-East of Ukraine.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

I think there is no split in Ukraine .. All this was artificially created over 20 years of "independence" This whole Maidan is a television screensaver .. inflated to a global scale .. Take these hoes from Pussy right "human rights defenders" of them made judging by they are shocked to their eyes .. they can’t tie two words out of the gateway and dragged them out of the gateway and made them "boretsy" against Putin’s regime and laugh and sin .. Klitschko from the same clip the dumber the better for Ukraine ..! It's not even funny ... how they mock the people (who are all silent ..) In Russia, too, not everything is smooth, and yet we are not ashamed of foreign policy ... in comparison with the 90s .. Here is something so chaotic ..

[Zomanus]

We are waiting for the end of the Olympics and we will see there. Blitzkrieg and Maidan did not work, and prolonged standing is economically very difficult for Western and European sponsors to pull, you can go broke on buns with bacon. So, conversations will soon begin on the account of either curtailing the Maidan or dividing the territories.

[Sonik]

Quote: chisya

Quote: sssla

Give an example pzhlst

I will say in general, because it is incorrect to directly compare, the distribution of prices is uneven. I will say at the level of Germany / Poland to Ukraine.

Which is cheaper:
1. The food. (dairy products, meat, coffee, sausages, fish, hard pasta, etc.) In Germany, it’s cheaper by 10 percent, in Poland by 20-25 percent.
3.Clothing. Brands are 2 times cheaper than ours. Ordinary clothes are 50 percent cheaper. Even in Russia, clothing prices are better than Ukrainian. In Ukraine, the price of clothes is simply inadequate.
Here it is worth saying that the control standards are more stringent and the quality of goods is high in relation to Ukrainian.

4. Cars. The market for used cars is 50-200% cheaper. Here you can take for 3-5 thousand euros in very good condition. (Well, purely for example, the Pegeot 308 of 2010 costs 5 thousand euros in Poland, it can be cheaper. In Ukraine, the price will be 10-12 thousand. From the passenger compartment for 20- 30% cheaper.


To summarize this way, eating and dressing in the EU is cheaper. Just buy a car is not a problem. And the quality of the goods is higher. Utility costs are more, very expensive medicine, but salaries are much higher than Ukrainian ones.

Accordingly, with open borders, even if the salaries of Ukrainians remain as they are now, clothes and food will be cheaper and the market for supported cars. As for a simple layman, this is very attractive.

But of course this is my IMHO.

I also want to add that in Ukrainian conditions the production of goods is very expensive. For sometimes the amount of the bribe exceeds the cost of the goods themselves. And for the end consumer, the price is inadequate. Making an acceptable price kills the quality of the goods. Ukraine can do it qualitatively, but in conditions of total corruption, the price will be unrealistic for a simple consumer.

I live in Latvia, and this is the European Union:
1. Product prices are still cheaper in Poland than ours.
2. Our clothes are 30-50% more expensive
3. Cars are more expensive than in Poland and Germany by 30-50%
4. With production, it’s even easier, they entered the Eurozone. Enterprises simply closed everything. The people work in stores (foreign) and small shops, and company stores, without social guarantees, for a minimum wage. There are a couple of woodworking enterprises left and that's it ..
so that nothing in Ukraine will become cheaper, and there will also be no work.

[Sonik]

Although I probably lied about clothes, we all go to brands, even homeless people are packed in hedgehog adidas and stuff .. branded jeans, T-shirts and other rags of 0,5-1,0 Euro cost ... second-hand clothes (clothing stores with lordly shoulders ...)