Military Review

How to fill the Russian industry with professional staff?

114
The state of the military-industrial complex today can hardly be called optimal. And the main reason is that the defense as a life-giving moisture needs qualified personnel. This phrase "qualified personnel" has already managed to turn into a real stamp, but the essence of the matter does not change from this state of affairs. The shortage of professionals in the industrial (and not only, incidentally, in the defense) sphere is already turning into a real threat to the competitiveness of both the Russian economy and the country as a whole. The chain is very simple: if today these or other industrial enterprises lose the opportunity to build themselves up with professional engineering and working links on a qualitative basis, then tomorrow these enterprises will be on the outskirts of the economy, and their production niche in Russia will remain empty, which in turn will lead to an obvious dependence on foreign manufacturers (in some industries already leads).


The fact that such a lost industry, and that there is a frank dependence on the production potentials of foreign countries, today can be judged by the numerous examples of the so-called "Young Europeans". The countries that at one time decided that it was financially not profitable to have large-scale productions themselves, that “good uncles” from Berlin, Paris and other places would deliver everything on a platter for new admirers of “democracy”, were seriously mistaken. Virtually the whole of Eastern Europe (with rare exceptions) today sits firmly on loans from "partners", rolling up its production facilities (from agricultural to machine-building) and gradually begins to understand what kind of sticky slush it has run into ...

Today, from such a sticky and fetid slurry, Russia is not insured either. The only difference is that our country no longer believes in “democratic” tales of credit welfare and that foreign goods (from a needle to a spaceship) are more profitable and certainly better. We do not believe that this is a big step forward, but only in order to take other steps in this direction, only the understanding of the need to rely on ourselves is not enough. Looking for real action.

How to fill the Russian industry with professional staff?


So what actions today to apply to the Russian industry (and the defense industry in particular) began to emerge from the prolonged stagnant (or rather regressive) funnel? A considerable number of people (and specialists and, let's say, ordinary people) are ready to answer this question in the following way: naturally, wage increases in the real sector.

Material stimulation is more than a serious trump card. When the labor remuneration system is built in such a way that there will not be an 20-30-fold pit between the income of the head of the company and the income of his average employee; when the principle of financial justice (no matter how utopian it may sound) will be implemented not only on paper, but in practice, then, it must be assumed, and the attractiveness of the industrial sector will seriously increase.

But is the only way to raise wages for workers and engineers? In fact, not everything is so simple. The fact is that on a whole number of industrial productions the management itself is not against paying skilled employees very good salaries by the average Russian standard. Yes, but the trouble is that skilled workers who understand engineers in their field often cannot be found with fire. Who is guilty? Well, here you can bend your fingers, list specific names, but lately we in Russia seem to be doing nothing but searching for the guilty, losing time. It’s time to abstract a little from this search and try to find real ways out of the current personnel crisis. If - a dead end, it will be unjustifiable and a little back, if it ultimately helps to find a way out.

One of the ways out is a full return to cooperation between educational institutions and industrial enterprises. If an industrialist needs some kind of professional workers or engineering personnel, then it is in his interest to raise these personnel in educational institutions, which is called “manual”. That is, to give an opportunity to undergo practical training at the plant equipment, and not on paper (as it is implemented in most cases today), to finance the most important areas of vocational training, to secure jobs for the most successful students, stimulating them, including . This will increase the prestige not only of the enterprise itself, but also of the educational institution with which such an enterprise cooperates. Yes - there is such cooperation, but so far, rather, it looks episodic, rather than systemic.

In the end, think about the possible system of distribution of graduates, because today only about 10% of young people who receive university diplomas work in Russia in the specialty (for graduates of secondary vocational schools, the percentage is even lower). Such percentages suggest that the state actually finances the training of those who are unlikely to make a contribution to the Russian economy in the near future (including the unemployed).

The problem is that most industrial enterprises are in private hands, and their owners, to put it mildly, are not always interested in the concerns of the state. Well, here it is - if we want some positive in Russian industry (and defense too) to be, then we need these same industrialists, let's say, to be interested at the state level. Options, by the way, is not so little. In the end, the business leaders themselves frankly admit that they literally dream of well-trained young people for professional work (both on machine tools and with drawing and design programs). So, here the interests of private capital and the state, at least, do not contradict each other. And this already means that it is time to use the opportunity to dock with the interests of the state and private owners now.

Stimulation of active and large-scale (rather than individual) training of professional personnel, including on the basis of private capital, can be carried out through tax incentives, through a system of budgetary investments. For those who are particularly hard-nosed, and such ones will certainly be found, the state could well turn on the machine of “explanatory” work. Like, if you need professional personnel - help them prepare, stimulate. As they say, if you don’t take it, turn off the gas! Someone will say that this is unjustified pressure on a private trader, but why is it unjustified ... Today, without reasonable government intervention in the business, there is no way - the crisis has confirmed this thesis. Even in the “liberal market” of the United States, business is often not at all ambiguous making it clear that “in war as in war,” which means you need to cooperate more actively. The economic swirl of 2008-2010 has clearly blurred the notion of “full liberalization of the economy.”
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  1. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 6 February 2014 06: 33
    +26
    At the dawn of Soviet power, there were such educational institutions as FZU (factory factories). so now only this can correct the situation with workers. One large enterprise, or a group of small ones, can organize FZU, attract pensioners to training, and train only those professions that are in demand at these enterprises, and not let out anyone who does not need specialists. And besides, not according to the program of vocational schools that were in recent years in the USSR. There, more attention was paid to general educational subjects than to professional ones. FZU is a time study coinciding with a normal working day. where 90% of the time the student is given the skills of a profession, and only 10% is general education, optional.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 6 February 2014 07: 01
      +7
      As for retirees, an interesting and unusual proposal, probably one could learn from them some subtleties of professions, I think their knowledge can be used when writing any manuals and study guides.
      Fzu is, of course, a too distant past, and something like technical schools needs to be restored.
      Whose money is it? Obviously, not private owners, for this:
      The main thing is to withdraw enterprises from the private sector (this is something like holdings now being created), and to open specialized schools using state funds.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. invisibility
        invisibility 6 February 2014 08: 13
        +29
        And it wasn’t figs to create a business elite! What goes around comes around!
        Remember the slogans of the Soviet era?
        Not everyone is given the chance to become a scientist, leader, etc. My classmate, dope and threesome (with interference), after vocational school worked as an electrician. Did he feel like a second-class man? Yes, not when !!! Worker it was proud !! And now ... Ask the student what he wants to become? He will not answer that an electrician, a turner, a metallurgist ...
        It feels like our power fell into childhood! It’s not a dream for everyone to become astronauts. And it will not work out as astronauts, so lawyers or economists ..
        1. Canep
          Canep 6 February 2014 09: 19
          +9
          With the union, an applicant with a diploma in a related specialty entered the institute out of competition. It is necessary to restore this rule and return it to schools of the CPC. Restore all vocational schools, and teach them relevant, and always demanded specialties: welder, installer, finisher, locksmith, turner, milling machine, OTK controller, and not a make-up artist, hairdresser, interior designer, PC operator, accountant, assistant secretary and .tp
        2. Arberes
          Arberes 6 February 2014 11: 50
          +22
          Quote: invisible
          Did he feel like a second-class man? Yes, not when !!! Worker it was proud !! And now ... Ask the student what he wants to become? He will not answer that an electrician, a turner, a metallurgist ...

          I didn’t want to comment today, I’m soon to work (on the second shift), but your words, dear invisibility , hit me for the living! hi
          You are absolutely right! Let me give you an example from my own life. Take my shop, there are two mechanic-repairmen of machine equipment left for the whole shop !!! Their age is pre-retirement, several guys came to them in the "brigade" - they trample a miserable year or two for a small salary and leave without forgetting to send the management of my workshop to hell!
          But what finishes the most, there are only two locksmiths, and four bosses manage them! Here is your bitch ... what matters I have at work! In order for a new person to gain a foothold in the workplace and absorb the experience of the previous generation, first of all, you need a decent salary and the opportunity to improve your own qualifications, otherwise it’s just a vicious circle that I described above! By the way, on my site with CNC, the same picture, so many people have already changed and all the youth!
          It is necessary to raise the status of a working person and then we will succeed!
          I apologize in advance if I can’t answer someone, work! I'll be home very late.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. invisibility
            invisibility 6 February 2014 12: 51
            +4
            Dear Arberes!
            Good luck to you!
            Our suppliers, who sculpt spare parts for us, have a workaholic, nicknamed "Small", working on the mechanical saw. Why do you think? He is 38 years old ...
            1. Arberes
              Arberes 6 February 2014 13: 55
              +6
              Quote: invisible
              Good luck to you!

              Thank you!
              And this is for you. He came back once from the third shift, rode in a trolley bus and here it inspired.

              Trolleybus dreams.

              Half empty trolley, my good old friend
              You are a hostage, your route is outlined!
              Like a little boat swinging in the wave
              Carry me from work-purring songs to me.

              Your old motor has long been tired!
              Dozens of years in the service, but what have you seen?
              Just a dusty road, people laugh funny
              Heat, cold, dirt and slush, would send to hell with everyone !!!

              And I will tell you as a friend, you unhappy brother
              I, too, have been delirious along the route for a hundred years in a row!
              Or maybe we will decide and make an escape?
              There where there is no pain and happiness is full of centuries!

              Well, what will you lose, tell me honestly ???
              The hum of wires dreary? Repairs in the garage?
              We’ll leave for Hawaii, there they drink fragrant rum!
              There the sea gently splashes and the strings of guitar ringing!

              All ran! Letun , Thank you for talking! drinks
              1. invisibility
                invisibility 6 February 2014 18: 20
                0
                Talent!!! I will copy, with your permission.
          3. Letun
            Letun 6 February 2014 13: 07
            +10
            Quote: Arberes

            But what finishes the most, there are only two locksmiths, and four bosses manage them! Here is your bitch ... what matters I have at work!

            Here! Absolutely true! We have now in production one with a bipod - seven with a spoon. Heads, economists, some managers, deputies, pomps and all sorts of other parasites. And do not be cunning about the idea that they would be happy to raise the wages of workers. These hangers-on only stuff their own pockets, therefore, our industry can’t produce quality products at affordable prices, there are a thousand hangers-on!
          4. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 6 February 2014 18: 59
            +3
            For those who are not in the subject! The word locksmith is spelled with a BIG LETTER, but unfortunately not always. A locksmith-repairman is not lower than secondary vocational education, a wide technical outlook and experience + "golden hands" + desire to work. Golden hands are given by God in the main, and the desire to work with a salary.
            In factories where the succession of generations has not been interrupted, they remember for a long time good turners, milling machines, etc. .Main that the specialist was capitalized.
          5. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 8 February 2014 19: 07
            0
            This is the case everywhere. The owner, as a rule a lawyer or an economist by training, simply does not understand, but for what, actually, should he pay a salary to some cattle? He didn’t study at a prestigious university, he didn’t go abroad for an internship, he rides a ridiculous nine ... What the hell is he for? Nekhai is hunched over for giving. But the controllers with stopwatch (God forbid, the hard worker once again escapes to the toilet) to hell.
        3. parus2nik
          parus2nik 6 February 2014 14: 13
          +4
          Duc under the Union and there was propaganda ... remember the film "That Berendeev" .. for bad behavior a student is sent to a vocational school ... and there his irrepressible energy is directed in the right direction .. the main idea of ​​the film is that the working profession is honorable .. And now ..the image of the worker in our cinema is a drunkard, a bum and no perspective ..
      3. Polovec
        Polovec 6 February 2014 14: 33
        +2
        It is necessary to return the CPC to school education! Definitely! In addition, it is necessary to introduce a quota for budget places for applicants with experience in profile in the working specialty. Return evening training. Our technical schools have disappeared. This is a disaster!
        Real production is based on secondary technical education!
        1. invisibility
          invisibility 6 February 2014 16: 29
          +3
          I agree with everything except ...
          Quote: Polovec
          In addition, it is necessary to introduce a quota for budget places for applicants with experience in profile in the working specialty

          Not. No budget places! There should be free education in state educational institutions. Private trader wants to open a university, please! Let him get a license, write a program, prove that his paid tuition is the best and go!
          There are those willing, let them pay. But what about a simple child from a worker-peasant family? Or are they totally mediocre? Or are they not worthy of higher education? Yes, there are more talents among them than among the "golden" angry youth!
        2. invisibility
          invisibility 6 February 2014 16: 29
          +1
          I agree with everything except ...
          Quote: Polovec
          In addition, it is necessary to introduce a quota for budget places for applicants with experience in profile in the working specialty

          Not. No budget places! There should be free education in state educational institutions. Private trader wants to open a university, please! Let him get a license, write a program, prove that his paid tuition is the best and go!
          There are those willing, let them pay. But what about a simple child from a worker-peasant family? Or are they totally mediocre? Or are they not worthy of higher education? Yes, there are more talents among them than among the "golden" angry youth!
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. skeptic
        skeptic 6 February 2014 17: 03
        +2
        Quote: mirag2
        The main thing is to withdraw enterprises from the private sector (this is something like the holdings being created now)


        And here is the correct answer. Most of the enterprises in the country were seized by crooks, in the plans, which were only the extraction of residual (passive) income. By hook or by crook, you grab a plant, send everything you can sell for scrap, rent the vacated premises. All of you are a renter and you can lie on the stove. It's rude, but close to reality, all over the country. What kind of education, what kind of specialists?
        Yes! There are individual HOSTS - but this is more often the exception. If the state decided to create a class of bourgeois, then they had to be raised first, on a competitive basis, so that the future director would create his own team, naturally, then there would be an understanding of the need for qualified personnel. And who needs it now?

        Only on a state basis, training, with specific employment, for specific applications and a guaranteed form of payment in the future. Like that.
        1. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 6 February 2014 19: 12
          +3
          To state-based, it is necessary for the state to have a desire to have its own industry, and not just an oil and gas pacifier. State will must be!
      6. Prosha
        Prosha 6 February 2014 23: 26
        +3
        Until normal working and wage conditions are created, do not even dream that young people will go to the factory. It is better to sit at the computer in a warm office than freeze snot in the workshop at a temperature of 5-7 degrees C, for 15000 - 20000 rubles.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 6 February 2014 08: 08
      +18
      FZU were after the war and went there to study, because there FOOD and clothe. And they were STATE. And who among the private traders will create the FZU now? Profit is at the forefront. Before the revolution, Savva Morozov had schools of the FZU type and he trained workers there. And now another mentality and "effective managers" and not business executives.
      1. Asgard
        Asgard 6 February 2014 08: 48
        +19
        AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ...
        And then do what Alexey Volodin suggested.
        While they decide in the "personnel" department, there will be no sense.
        To illustrate, I will give an example that is far from private (the tendency, so to speak, since the days of "Serdyukov", his business LIVES)))))THANKS TO THE KREMLIN-politics !! ,, ??
        Meet ... the head of the main department of social communications, in the rank of MINISTER of the Moscow Region (26 years old))) Irina Pleshcheva.
        The photo is fresh, Comrad in the morning to cheer up))))) Top-in-the-wood ...
        Of course, it will not help the ECONOMY of the region ....
        The same girl in Shoigu's assistants !!! Helps the Minister of Defense ????
        photoset (Marinochka Kitaeva with a bull toilet))) clickable ...
        Kitaeva Marina Advisor to ShoiguKitaeva Marina Advisor to Shoigu

        They are professional))))
        1. Canep
          Canep 6 February 2014 09: 09
          -5
          Shoigu tastes good. And this is an occasion to arrange a maidan in Russia? Now imagine yourself in the place of the minister. A crowd of functionaries is trying to please you, and they find you a beautiful (and possibly current) girl in the helper. Your actions? Dismiss her and thereby ruin her life? and replace it with some old club or guy, so that everyone thinks that either an impotent or a pervert? Even if he himself found it and brought it to the ministry - this is his right.
          1. Asgard
            Asgard 6 February 2014 09: 28
            +29
            Kozhugetovich’s taste is not very good (He flew like on a plane with a Marinochka from Dubaev)))) what to take from him the Shaman, when he HELPED to ruin the USSR ... (as far as I remember))

            Yes, and not about that ...
            Stalin said that PERSONNEL DECIDE EVERYTHING !!!!
            So it is, yesterday on TopVar there was an article about the managers of the Kalashnikov concern, the voryug, and the personnel department appointed "people" who have ALREADY FRAUD and leads to investigators behind their shoulders ... and Diplomas bought in the transition (even without problems with plagiarism))))
            Such People, the same advisers, are assigned to themselves, and are not building a system of EDUCATION for the profession. THIS IS NOT NEEDED TO THEM.
            The existing government has not built anything. It is necessary to change it, and not bl..y appoint it to the power structures ....
            About this speech and post.sapper))))
            1. Svetlana
              Svetlana 6 February 2014 09: 58
              +5
              You are, as always, right. You can’t say better.
            2. Canep
              Canep 6 February 2014 10: 49
              0
              Quote: Asgard
              when it HELPED to ruin the USSR ... (as far as I remember))

              Here is the track record of Shoigu until the 91st year.
              1977-1978 - master of the trust "Promkhimstroy", Krasnoyarsk
              1978 — 1979 - master, head of the section of the trust "Tuvinstroy", Kyzyl (capital of the Tuva Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic)
              1979-1984 - Senior foreman, chief engineer, head of the construction department SU-36 of the trust "Achinskalyuminstroy", Achinsk
              1984 — 1985 - Deputy manager of the trust "Sayanalyuminstroy", Sayanogorsk
              1985 — 1986 - Manager of the trust "Sayantyazhstroy", Abakan
              1986 — 1988 - Manager of the trust "Abakanvagonstroy", Abakan
              1988 — 1989 - Second Secretary of the Abakan CC of the CPSU, Abakan
              1989 — 1990 - Inspector of the Krasnoyarsk Regional Committee of the CPSU, Krasnoyarsk
              1990 — 1991 - Deputy Chairman of the State Committee of the RSFSR for Architecture and Construction, Moscow
              1991 - Chairman of the Russian Rescue Corps, Moscow

              Tell me what position and how he could somehow influence the collapse or preservation of the USSR.
              Leave Shoigu alone, he is the only person in business in the government, and as a minister he can afford assistants of any gender and age, and in quite a large number.
              1. Asgard
                Asgard 6 February 2014 15: 03
                +3
                Ugh, by mistake you put a plus)))
                Well, probably for the opportunity to answer the question ....
                Shoigu Sergey Kozhugetovich is the bearer of the Masons medals-the Maltese cross .... (those "guys" just don't give crosses, it's a symbol after all))))

                On October 3, 1993, Sergei Shoigu handed out a thousand assault rifles to Yegor Gaidar, who was preparing to “defend democracy” from the Constitution ....
                More than 1000 units. small arms (AKS-74U with ammunition!) from the emergency hands were distributed "defenders of democracy" ... Tyumen criminals. There are names from Alikperov’s entourage, there’s no chance to see ....
                Well, those people were crushed, then people were taken out as cattle .... (the data on the number of people killed is classified)) Although PEOPLE know ....
                Yeltsin made the senior L-nta reserve General (fantastic career))) and Shoigu NOT A DAY SERVED IN THE ARMY ...
                Well, then rolled EMERCOM with advertising on TV in prime time where a minute costs $ 100 ....
                From "Lukoil" Barkov was otmazed when he killed two women on Leninsky and video footage where he changed places with the driver disappeared (well, I think the files will come up)))
                and so on ..... all the crime ...
                1. Canep
                  Canep 6 February 2014 15: 29
                  0
                  Let me remind you that the USSR ceased to exist in 1991 in December, through the efforts of the Bialowieza trinity. And you are here about the events of 1993. There was no union then. A +/- I’m not particularly interested, keep putting you.
                2. Patriot of Ukraine
                  Patriot of Ukraine 6 February 2014 15: 43
                  +1
                  100%. but with such remarks you and thunder still rattle in the skull, as Vaf correctly noted. Kozhugetovich, after all, this is our vsyo for the majority on this site.
            3. Starina_hank
              Starina_hank 6 February 2014 19: 20
              +1
              Which leader will accept or take a substitute smarter than himself? The pleiad of fools will not interrupt by itself.
          2. I am a Russian
            I am a Russian 7 February 2014 07: 21
            +1
            Quote: Canep
            Your actions?


            Fire you!
        2. Firstvanguard
          Firstvanguard 6 February 2014 18: 57
          +1
          AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ...

          From one article to another you have the same song. Is that a mantra? Your calls to change power are regular, but how to do it? How is it in Ukraine? Maidan offer?
      2. Arhj
        Arhj 6 February 2014 08: 58
        +6
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        And who of private traders will create FZU now?

        Large enterprises with smart leaders are already setting up vocational schools or actively cooperating with state ones. Pervouralsk Iron and Steel Works for example. But there are few of them because it is really expensive. State corporations have had such schools for a long time. "Sevmash" for example, to attract students to its vocational school does not promise anything.
        But the problem is not only that. Training is the market. An enterprise that attracts a specialist must make certain deductions in favor of the institution that prepared it. And with us, the specialist gets it for free. That forced schools and universities to survive to focus not on employers, but on consumers. That is, they prepare those specialties for which the student is willing to pay.
        As a result, every second manager, every third lawyer.
    3. AnaBat
      AnaBat 6 February 2014 08: 39
      +8
      I worked for the defense industry for more than 10 years. Young people are not willing to go to the plant, and when the workshop was recruited, the main problem is young people without work experience. The main thing here is the support of the enterprise. Education, mentoring, and most importantly interest young people. Our company allocated loans for housing at low interest rates!
    4. Interface
      Interface 6 February 2014 09: 26
      +5
      Vocational school today is an abusive and contemptuous institution, unfortunately.
      + In addition, in order to completely eliminate the shortage of personnel over the course of 5-10 years, it is also necessary to take these hands with work.
      And for this it is necessary to build at least 500 enterprises per year, with the number of workers on average 5000 people. And we still have in most candle factories from Rusnano, with the number of r-b. hands ~ 25-100 But there are still factories. There, in general, a number can leave for 10 thousand.
      Shipyards, there need at least 30tys people for quick construction. At the Severnaya Verf, there used to be 40 thousand. Now, not much more than 3.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 6 February 2014 11: 47
        -1
        Quote: Interface
        Vocational school today is an abusive and contemptuous institution, unfortunately. + In addition, in order to completely eliminate the shortage of personnel within 5-10 years, you still need to take these hands with work

        It is necessary, as in Germany (and not only), to license labor activities, so that without a license for work, a person simply could not count on either a worthy place or an appropriate w-site. The license is issued only on the basis of state examinations and relevant training. \ further the employee with the license (and it does not matter the engineer or the hard worker) joins his union, and the union already sets (in labor agreement with the min. industry) min. salary (hourly) of one or another category of worker. As a rule, the division of trade unions is like workers, technicians, engineers, engineers, employees — the employer simply does not have the right to pay less than the union sets (if we talk about Canada as an example, this is 27 bucks (Canadian at an o'clock - a minimum).
        But you cannot join a union without a license; there is no license without education. This is how qualified specialists are protected, but those who didn’t study did not take exams - for a minimum, and who will allow you without a license.
        This is one of the ways that works in the world.
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 8 February 2014 19: 19
          0
          Sorry, but we do not live in Canada ...
    5. ddd1975
      ddd1975 6 February 2014 13: 08
      +4
      ... it's sad how long it took to come to the forgotten phrase - "cadres decide everything."
    6. starshina78
      starshina78 6 February 2014 19: 22
      +2
      There was already a similar article on a similar topic, and I wrote in my commentary on how it would be possible to fill enterprises with personnel. I work at a plant and I see who works and who comes to work at the plant. In Soviet times, almost every large plant had a FZU (as the previous author of the comment wrote), later vocational schools, technical schools that train mid-level specialists - masters, universities trained engineers, who, most importantly, had to work at the enterprise where he was assigned for three years. Many people stayed after their work, getting an apartment or being satisfied with a high salary. In vocational schools, not all specialties could be entered just like that, they looked at the grades in school certificates. For example: steelmaker, apparatchik (atomic production). This is in our city. People went to plant 1 At my plant, for example: a turner after five years of work received an apartment. And how many feature films were released on screens promoting labor labor. Just remember: "Spring on Zarechnaya Street", "Height", "Big Family", and many others. These films glorified the labor of the worker. And now ? If they show a worker, then this is a half-moron, and managers, artists, and others are in favor.
  2. Orakyl
    Orakyl 6 February 2014 06: 44
    +25
    In the language of the classics, to the question posed, I would answer: "elementary Watson!" Wages at the level of 60-70 thousand rubles, housing, kindergartens, lifting, i.e. create basic conditions for motivating people. Then the people will go to school, they will receive working specialties.
    1. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 08: 06
      +7
      Quote: Orakyl
      In the language of the classics, to the question posed, I would answer: "elementary Watson!" Wages at the level of 60-70 thousand rubles, housing, kindergartens, lifting, i.e. create basic conditions for motivating people. Then the people will go to school, they will receive working specialties.

      Yes, only the process is very long, it is not possible to give a young specialist salaries at such a level, only qualified specialists can have such salaries, and this is a long way from college (I'm not talking about engineers), just raising salaries without increasing productivity is just to pump up the money supply and pushing inflation, the increase in prices will gobble it up (I mean the increase in salaries), in industry in Europe and the USA, productivity is many times higher - you have to make a start from it - giving a salary - you have to get it and give it back - without that out of the question
      A competent and highly qualified specialist is in addition to quality training, a minimum of 10-15 years of experience. Everything is extremely complicated, it is a whole complex of interconnected problems, and so to speak, in which not only the employer, but also the worker himself takes part.
      In general, young people don’t go to work as a specialty, this is a problem for the whole world. As an example, we have a good electrician, plumber, tiler earning at the level of a high-class engineer, and sometimes even more, but the same productivity worker is not just coming and going - it is almost a completely independent specialist, independently deciding the whole range of tasks under his jurisdiction, not all such but cool specialists are paid more than worthy and the return on them is corresponding
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 6 February 2014 09: 49
        +5
        Quote: atalef

        ... just raising salaries without increasing productivity is just pumping up the money supply and pushing inflation, raising prices will gobble it all up (I mean raising salaries) ...

        This is not entirely true. The wage share of workers in the prime cost is usually 7-15%. You can check at any enterprise. So the increase in the salary of the necessary categories of workers will not lead anyone particularly, but they will definitely attract personnel. All the rest you wrote correctly, but these are common truths of any production.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 6 February 2014 12: 34
          +5
          Quote: Max Otto
          The salary of workers in the prime cost is usually 7-15%

          The fact of the matter is that at cost. And then retail chains inflate the final cost to what we see in stores. It is trade that makes the main profit, not the producer. The system is vicious, and without changing it, we will slowly slide into the abyss, under bravura marches.
          P.S. Lukashenko does his best to support manufacturers; for this, traders do not like him.
          1. Svetlana
            Svetlana 6 February 2014 13: 50
            +1
            Manufacturers have the right and opportunity to establish their own retail distribution network, which many do, and thereby create competition for the trading system. And you in vain think that all evil lies in it. Trading, of course, is easier and less problematic than creating your own products. But with the existing tax system and the current bureaucratic bureaucratic apparatus, merchants also have a hard time.
          2. Max otto
            Max otto 6 February 2014 14: 26
            -2
            Trading networks have nothing to do with it. Raise wages even by 40% - this will be reflected in the cost of no more than 1-3%, no one will notice. Lukashenka does not put pressure on traders, he makes them civilized - the products that you trade must have a certificate and must be safe, that's all he wants, but it hits the small shopkeepers, the big ones have been fulfilling all the conditions and working for a long time. He also crushes imports, for the country it is right, but local producers are turning brown (you need to beat your own people somehow so that the quality improves). How Lukashenka supports producers is a separate anecdote. A jamb on a jamb, but it is ministers and ministries who are stupid, collective farmers, what can you take from them? On "Baranovichidrev" you can track, you can already shoot a comedy, or rather a tragicomedy.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 6 February 2014 16: 19
              +5
              Quote: Max Otto
              Trading networks are nothing to do with.

              At what. Now the manufacturer must run after the merchant to knock out a place on the shelf of the store. And roll back for it. Networks do not bear any responsibility for the goods, the delay again on the manufacturer. And this despite the fact that the producer in percentage terms has less seller and packer.
              Quote: Svetlana
              Manufacturers have the right and opportunity to establish their own retail distribution network,

              Almost not real.
              Quote: Svetlana
              merchants are also not sweet.

              Traded, I know. Safely broke, now working for an uncle.
              1. Max otto
                Max otto 6 February 2014 16: 44
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Now the manufacturer must run after the merchant ...

                A merchant will run for a good product. And you don’t have to do bad products. Or your own distribution network, there are many options.
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                And roll back for it.

                Criminally punishable act, we will not consider in principle.
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                And this despite the fact that the producer in percentage terms has less seller and packer

                And here is the vast field of activity of the price-maker, and the manufacturer has all the pluses. Because trade only has transportation costs, and the manufacturer has unlimited imagination.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 6 February 2014 19: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Max Otto
                  A merchant will run for a good product

                  I will list the networks that work on the principle of a lying stone, i.e. the manufacturer must, by agreement, legally redeem the shelf for his goods - Pyaterochka, Posadsky, Magnet, Crossroads, Auchan, Tape, Oh, Kay. It is only a souvenir. And only large networks. And there are still competitors who pay the same bargain. networks for not letting your product go on sale. Of course they pay in envelopes, it seems not legal, but it is profitable for traders. And to catch them on this is practically impossible, there is no corpus delicti.
                  Quote: Max Otto
                  Because trade only has transportation costs, and the manufacturer has unlimited imagination.

                  Max, you are new to trade, traders have almost no transportation costs, the goods are brought and laid out either by the manufacturer or the intermediary. And the manufacturer’s representative, the merchandiser, monitors the condition of the goods. hi
                2. Starina_hank
                  Starina_hank 6 February 2014 19: 31
                  0
                  Torgash runs only for his profit!
    2. DNX1970
      DNX1970 6 February 2014 08: 40
      +4
      good salary and confidence in the future, it can’t be better!
      1. Arhj
        Arhj 6 February 2014 09: 08
        +4
        Quote: DNX1970
        good salary and confidence in the future, it can’t be better!

        Not only. We already have many workers getting more than office plankton (it is plankton, not high-class specialists). The image and prestige of the profession is also important. If the state wants to receive high-class workers on the information component (easier on advertising), they will also have to work.
    3. AnaBat
      AnaBat 6 February 2014 08: 48
      0
      If you make a salary of 60-70 thousand, then the cost of production will increase! None of the military customers agree on high product prices; the government is betting on productivity growth. Where does she come from, without investment! Kindergartens were transferred to urban ownership from enterprises! It is necessary to create specialized schools at enterprises!
      1. atalef
        atalef 6 February 2014 08: 58
        0
        Quote: AnaBat
        Where does she come from, without investment!

        Of course you need to invest, but this cannot be a problem only for the state - this does not work. In general, the state in this case is a rather amorphous thing. as a state. an official may be interested in increasing productivity - in no way - this will not affect his salary (I mean increasing productivity in industry 0 Only the owner of the plant, private entrepreneur - if this affects his skin and income. The rest will not work - state-owned enterprises will be devoured any amount of money, of course, since state-owned enterprises cannot go bankrupt and the money basket will not go down. Of course they can go bankrupt, but then they will reorganize and again in a circle at the expense of the taxpayer. - This is a priori, because Domocles’s sword of bankruptcy does not hang over them (i.e. the risk of the owner with his own dough).
        If a private trader sees that it is profitable to modernize (a private trader I mean open joint-stock companies) - income is the main thing, without improving labor productivity, it will be possible to achieve both the competitiveness of goods and decent salaries (as a result).
      2. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 6 February 2014 09: 55
        +7
        None of the military customers agree on high prices for products - and they are not low anyway. you look at the state procurement website. The competition is not won by the balance of "price-quality", but how much of the price "bite off" the coordinator will be given.
      3. Zlyden.Zlo
        Zlyden.Zlo 6 February 2014 10: 45
        +5
        Unlearn two years and work at the factory for 10-15 thousand. And what's the point?
    4. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 6 February 2014 09: 52
      +1
      Housing with the right of preferential purchase (with partial compensation of the cost), and departmental kindergarten. And people will reach out and for 10 years will be "chained" to their enterprise. And there the salary will catch up with experience ... and there will be no point in leaving. All uk .. uh was invented before us.
    5. Orik
      Orik 6 February 2014 13: 35
      +1
      Quote: Orakyl
      In the language of the classics, to the question posed, I would answer: "elementary Watson!" Wages at the level of 60-70 thousand rubles, housing, kindergartens, lifting, i.e. create basic conditions for motivating people. Then the people will go to school, they will receive working specialties.

      I’m only for, only ... Who will pay for the banquet in today's wild capitalism ?!
  3. Name
    Name 6 February 2014 06: 45
    +4
    How to fill Russian industry with professional personnel- restore secondary vocational education on the model of the USSR but on the basis of 11 classes (with the introduction of a military department, and recourse ), not forgetting about "material incentives".How else in the days of the "golden calf" you can interest young people ...
    1. Orik
      Orik 6 February 2014 13: 40
      0
      Quote: name
      How to fill Russian industry with professional personnel- restore secondary vocational education on the model of the USSR but on the basis of 11 classes (with the introduction of a military department, and recourse ), not forgetting about "material incentives".How else in the days of the "golden calf" you can interest young people ...

      Then it is necessary to restore the USSR, the time is different.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 13: 57
      -4
      Quote: name
      restore secondary vocational education on the model of the USSR but on the basis of 11 classes


      No way, the model of the USSR will not and cannot be.
      To begin with, education costs money and should be paid.
      Educational institutions should train specialists of such a level - who will then be able to find a job (they sort of solved the problem with applicants), then the payment terms - if the educational process is overloaded with unnecessary, non-specialized subjects - this will affect the amount of payment for studies (the same not a small factor, the prohibitive price will simply scare students off) - therefore, the unnecessary will be automatically eliminated because another institution in the same profession will provide education cheaper.
      The next stage - exams should be only state-owned and verified by an independent company with complete anonymity of the examiner (oral examinations should not be at all)
      .Well, now we’ll come to pay, the higher the level of education the university provides (the more difficult it is to enter it, therefore only those who studied very well at school) - these universities receive the highest state subsidies and therefore the cost of studying in them is THE LOWEST, I I’d call it symbolic (my son has to study at the best university in Israel - they have to pay 3.5 tons of bucks per year (which is generally a penny), but since he is studying from the Army, we don’t pay at all. (But to go to such a scholarship you need to finish practically with a silver medal - by the standards of the USSR). is regulated, good students from the 3rd year are invited to work in leading corporations - just come, just agree, we will pay for everything, wow, work hours when it is convenient for you, just agree to stay with us) - and you say capitalism - neither everything is so bad
      In institutes of a lower rank and accepting almost everyone for training - the price rises at times (meaning - did not go to school --- pay)
      Well, of course, especially distinguished - scholarships.
      So in general with us. The market regulates and applicants are well aware of where and whom to go to study --- who is in demand.
      Well, then - everything is in your hands.
      1. Max otto
        Max otto 6 February 2014 16: 52
        +1
        Quote: atalef

        To begin with, education costs money and should be paid ...
        ... my son has to study at the best uni Of Israel ...

        You are a little about that. I’m glad for your son, of course, but there is someone to lead in Russia, and even more than necessary. wink
        No one to work with your hands. I am 100500% sure that a turner or machine operator with a wide profile (metalworking) of the 5-6th category with experience will calmly go to any successful plant and will be immediately accepted, and the salary will be (not immediately, of course, in 2-3 months) for level of the main specialists of the enterprise (I exaggerate of course, but the fact that the separation from them will not be very big is for sure). This is in Belarus, in Russia the question with these specialists is even more acute.
  4. Normman
    Normman 6 February 2014 06: 56
    +13
    The ideological thesis of the USSR - Glory to work! The current Russian constitution denies ideology, which allows the media and the fifth column to form ideas in society - such as a worker, this is a failure. All recent opinion polls say that the new generation wants to be bankers, economists, and officials. In production, more than half are pensioners! Maybe it's time to change the constitution?
    1. rodiy2007
      rodiy2007 6 February 2014 08: 02
      +2
      I completely agree, it is necessary to change the very perception of working specialties. Financial incentives alone are not enough. If you can elevate them so to speak with the help of propaganda, the introduction of various social benefits and allowances.
      1. atalef
        atalef 6 February 2014 09: 09
        +5
        Quote: rodiy2007
        If I may say so to exalt them with the help of propaganda, the introduction of all kinds of social benefits and benefits.

        No benefits - just a patch. I know very well I communicate with my colleagues from the RAO EU. You cannot find good specialists, even for more than a decent salary. because to get to the level of specialist - these are years and years. And this is not only the consciousness of an individual worker, it is generally a general atmosphere and it is not made by the statements of this or that president. This is a process. And apparently no one was interested in it. oil flows, the sea of ​​grandmothers --- there is something to plug holes in, but the money runs out. and rebuild --- extremely difficult
        1. max702
          max702 6 February 2014 11: 42
          0
          And how much do you think a good specialist should earn? Amount please .. In Soviet times, I personally knew two power engineers, they wound around the union, set up transformers and something else (my father worked with them at the factory) and so father earned 7-220 on the 230th category of electrician, and they 1200- 1500 yes, plus launchers and spoils, so estimate how much specialists of such level should earn now, in my opinion from 500 thousand rubles .. who pays such money to the hard worker? I have not heard .. But accountants, managers and other tinsel all the time.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef 6 February 2014 15: 48
            0
            Quote: max702
            And how much do you think a good specialist should earn? Amount please ..

            In general, it depends on which country you live in. We have a good electrician from 3 tons of bucks and above
            Quote: max702
            Duc father on the 7th category of an electrician earned 220-230

            There was never a 7th grade electrician (maybe you just forgot). Maximum 6th and 5th tolerance group (above 1000v)
            Quote: max702
            and they are 1200-1500 yes, plus launchers and spoils, so estimate how much now

            I in 1987 in practice (built a radar in Baranavichy) received 550-630 per month
            1. Starina_hank
              Starina_hank 6 February 2014 19: 57
              0
              Seventh rank is a game with accounting. At the neighboring factory, 8th digits were also found. This is to pay money to people. Now there are no locksmiths below the 5-6th grade, because 3-4 is not something to feed the family, you will stretch your legs.
    2. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 09: 05
      -5
      Quote: Normman
      The ideological thesis of the USSR - Glory to work

      They laughed - on

      Quote: Normman
      The current Russian constitution denies ideology, which allows the media and the fifth column to form ideas in society - such as a worker is a loser

      Of course, why not blame your own desire to not work on uncle
      Quote: Normman
      All recent polls say that the new generation wants to be bankers, economists, officials

      People understand that only there you can easily make money. In general, polls are a dumb thing. Ask me who I would like to become, I would answer the same thing the same, but I am content to be an electrical engineer. And who is ready to become a financier, a doctor. lawyer - successful, I mean. --- study . study and work - work and improve. Was that asked?
      Quote: Normman
      In production, more than half are pensioners! Maybe it's time to change the constitution?

      Is that * Write everyone required to be workers? Some kind of stupidity
      1. Normman
        Normman 6 February 2014 12: 51
        0
        Does the "judge's" robe do not squeeze?

        * Leave everyone required to be workers? Some kind of stupidity "

        He came up with himself and gave himself an assessment :)
  5. Sergei 163
    Sergei 163 6 February 2014 07: 01
    +4
    This is all of course yes! But private traders are more likely to suffocate than pay high (official) wages to skilled workers. The profit of a private trader depends on sales, that is why gentlemen managers will always be ahead in the matter of salary. And when there is no sales, then it is not profitable to keep the worker in production (let him sit at home better, and preferably at his own expense). Plus, the private trader wants to make more guest workers for production, and to make qualified personnel out of them (in order to pay less and to reduce wages in the labor market), that he still doesn’t work well.
    1. Orakyl
      Orakyl 6 February 2014 07: 11
      +1
      To restore our industry, production capacities, not to mention the defense industry, orders are many times greater than the number of proposals! The innovative technologies of our home-grown Kulibins must be introduced into production, and not on the Internet. Oil dollars should be directed in this direction, and not create virtual reserve funds consisting of US government bonds, the price of which is "a penny on a market day"!
    2. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 09: 15
      -4
      Quote: Sergey 163
      This is all of course yes! But private traders are more likely to suffocate than pay high (official) wages to skilled workers

      I fundamentally disagree with you. thank God I’ve been living in capitalism for 20 years. Yes, for good specialists private owners hold on and how. because they bring money - will not their whole business die. Equilibrium must be maintained - and the income from the specialist in any case should exceed the investment in it in the form of salaries and conditions, if this is not the case, any business will die. This is the alphabet

      Quote: Sergey 163
      The profit of a private trader depends on sales, therefore, gentlemen, managers will always be ahead in the matter of salary

      In general, a manager is a manager, engineers are the same managers and why should they earn less than a worker? Well, a good seller is also not easy - therefore, one should not speak about the word manager, but about the effectiveness of each in its place
      Quote: Sergey 163
      Plus, the private trader wants to pick up more guest workers for production, and make qualified personnel out of them (in order to pay less and bring down salaries in the labor market), which he still doesn’t do well

      And this cannot be obtained - oranges do not grow on aspen.
      1. Prosha
        Prosha 8 February 2014 12: 02
        +1
        atalef
        Yes, for good specialists, private traders hold on and even like. they bring money - will not them their whole business will die

        This is precisely the conclusion that is true for the lower and middle level of production management, and the "owner" does not care how you will fulfill his requirements, he needs the result and the release of the goods, and the fact that there is no one to work does not bother him much, the same production fell into hands, and not he founded it on his own money or inherited it. (And everything that easily got is not very valuable, how it came and went ...
  6. Nitarius
    Nitarius 6 February 2014 07: 15
    +1
    If OUR DEAR oligarchs do not understand THAT ON THE MILITARY POTENTIAL OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY, THEIR FUTURE CAPITALS depend. and that IF other "friends" come, then they will TAKE OFF EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN PRESSED with backbreaking work in the 90s.
    The oligarchs must realize- DO NOT WANT TO FEED YOUR ARMY - will FEED HOMOSECES from EUROPE or AMERICA!
    1. Name
      Name 6 February 2014 08: 32
      +4
      Russian oligarchs will not understand (they don’t need it!) Because having billions and placing them abroad they complain about the lack of investment in the Russian economy from the west ...
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 6 February 2014 08: 48
      +3
      You are a naive person. Our oligarchs keep all their movable and immovable property over the hill. Therefore, even if the most ardent patriot comes to power in Russia, he will not be able to do anything. Billions from Swiss banks and Miami villas cannot be taken.
      1. Orik
        Orik 6 February 2014 13: 44
        +2
        Quote: Greenwood
        You are a naive person. Our oligarchs keep all their movable and immovable property over the hill. Therefore, even if the most ardent patriot comes to power in Russia, he will not be able to do anything. Billions from Swiss banks and Miami villas cannot be taken.

        Well, how much? There would be a desire, a respectable citizen comes to the escaped oligarch and says, he stole 2 mln. Of the door 1,8. The first one will be sent, we cut it out with a family, a cat and a hamster, the rest will give it back. Only an order is needed.
    3. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 09: 18
      0
      Quote: Nitarius
      If OUR DEAR oligarchs do not understand WHAT THE FUTURE DEPENDS ON THE MILITARY POTENTIAL OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY


      Nothing depends on the military potential (except often virtual security) and the military-industrial complex will consume any money without any return.
      S.Korea is not an example for you?
      Quote: Nitarius
      and that IF other "friends" COME, then they will TAKE OFF EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN PRESSED with backbreaking work in the 90s

      It seems that they are holding their grandmothers under the pillow. To take money from them for a long time, you don’t have to go anywhere. imkh money for a long time in the west
      Quote: Nitarius
      The oligarchs must realize - DO NOT WANT TO FEED YOUR ARMY - will FEED HOMOSECES from EUROPE or AMER

      belay
    4. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 6 February 2014 20: 19
      +1
      Where the money of the aligarchs-there is their homeland.
  7. cobalt
    cobalt 6 February 2014 07: 23
    +4
    Few specialists simply need to be trained in high quality, because you need to learn how to work with the most modern equipment. You can’t raise the industrial potential on old machines. The question arises as to who, how, and by what means will equip vocational schools (FZU), etc. modern equipment and will find master teachers who can train young people to work effectively on it. An example from personal life. I studied at the Polytechnic. My dorm neighbor studied at the faculty of motor transport. He is Lebanese. He said already then, in 1996-98, that in Lebanon our motor engineering education was rated low, as we had been taught to understand outdated equipment and transport units. He studied with us only because the family is not rich and the state paid him extra money for this study.
  8. kaktus
    kaktus 6 February 2014 07: 30
    +13
    Speaking of salary:

    7 000 rub.
    Parts and Instrument Tester
    to BPO Progress
    Requirements
    Work experience: any.
    Terms
    Employment under the Labor Code of the Russian Federation Full-time on the territory of the employer
    Ufa
    February 3 c rosrabota.ru plant "Progress"

    Who will work for such a salary? A pensioner living in a neighboring quarter, so as not to spend 600-1000 rubles per month on the road? Che something not to see prosperity ...
    1. rodiy2007
      rodiy2007 6 February 2014 08: 06
      +3
      Yes ... as the saying goes: "No comment."
      1. AnaBat
        AnaBat 6 February 2014 11: 22
        0
        The tester of parts and devices is a specialty that does not require special knowledge, the work is usually replaceable and is associated with the control of products during their testing (in short, follow the equipment and press the buttons). Our youth worked part-time there. Salary should depend mainly on the complexity of the profession, and not so that all 60-70 thousand. Give! And in the regions the wages are really low, not a cheat in Moscow! In short, every enterprise, and right now the majority of JSCs, are twisted themselves, and in order to increase their salaries, they try to increase productivity.
        1. Orik
          Orik 6 February 2014 13: 45
          +3
          But, at the minimum wage, a person should live normally, and not make ends meet!
          1. atalef
            atalef 6 February 2014 16: 06
            +1
            Quote: Orik
            But, at the minimum wage, a person should live normally,

            no, it’s not right, they don’t live anywhere on the minimum wage (though that’s normal) - if it’s normal - in the sense of normal - it makes no sense to work harder, study, improve, because it’s so normal
          2. The comment was deleted.
  9. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 6 February 2014 07: 43
    +7
    salary is probably the main thing. A decent salary and a human attitude towards workers will provide any enterprise with professional personnel! The salaries of directors exceed the salaries of workers by tens or even hundreds of times. And this is at state-owned enterprises. The year before last, Putin, in his message to the Duma, to the government ?, said that it is necessary to stop the practice when the general director receives several times more than the workers ..... So what? the State Duma adopted a law on "golden parachutes" The parachute should not exceed 50 average salaries of the dismissed director .... All forces are squeezed out of the workers for a miserable salary. In big cities, if there is an opportunity to find more or less decent income. then in small towns and villages this opportunity is completely absent. and very good pros earn less than 12-15 tons of rubles. And the attitude towards people? WORKER IS A SLAVE !!!! Everyone who can study and try to get away from working professions as far as possible.
  10. kaktus
    kaktus 6 February 2014 07: 44
    +7
    Zvezda shipyard has made ships for seven criminal cases
    February 6, 2014, 07:31 [“Argumenty.ru”]
    Zvezda shipyard has made ships for seven criminal cases

    During the implementation of the state contract for the repair of warships at the Zvezda plant in Bolshoi Kamen, the damage exceeded 1 billion rubles, materials were collected in seven criminal cases of fraud and more than a thousand volumes of documents.
    Further into the forest - more firewood negative
  11. old rocket man
    old rocket man 6 February 2014 07: 45
    +8
    None of the "private traders" understands anything, the basis of any "business" is profit, not a single oligarch will miss non-production costs and no "pressure" will help here.
    Only the state can, and should, invest in this business. It is necessary to start with educational institutions at large defense enterprises, with compulsory state funding, hostels for nonresidents and training of some percentage on vouchers from others. enterprises with legally formalized obligations of "pupils" to work for a certain time at state enterprises. At the same time, guarantee graduates employment in their specialty.
  12. Diviz
    Diviz 6 February 2014 08: 16
    0
    I want to take excellent students ... we have some dagi at our place in agma .. in Lukoil, 5 places by profession are reserved in the school who falls into them only God knows.
  13. saag
    saag 6 February 2014 08: 16
    +2
    Education, salary, of course, this is correct, only they will not pay a high salary to beginners, and they never paid anywhere and never, everything depended on experience, but these are just parts of the big picture, in the union it was sometimes beneficial to be a worker because the state in its ideology and material support was oriented towards the working class, and this was the basis on which everything was held, now it is not there and there will be no such desire to go to the workers until the system is changed
  14. Vanya Sevdonym
    Vanya Sevdonym 6 February 2014 08: 28
    +1
    How to fill and create FZU for the defense industry !? It means this: We fire Rogozin and send him to the director of the FZU, let's say, to Tula. And so with all "successful managers".
  15. Alex
    Alex 6 February 2014 08: 39
    +5
    A very relevant article. The situation with qualified personnel at the defense industry enterprises is simply disastrous. The level of training of young specialists leaves much to be desired. And there is practically no one to transfer experience, there are almost no old workers. What can I do? I think that you can still try to attract with the help of high salaries old specialists. They haven’t gone anywhere. I have worked for more than 15 years at a defense enterprise and I know that most of the former colleagues (who are not retired yet), as a rule, are employed in low-paying jobs. Some are on guard, some are a janitor, some are on the market. Many of them would be happy to return to production, if they were offered a decent salary. But young people can’t be lured by one high salary to the plant. Here, of course, you can’t do without state support. It is necessary to increase the prestige of working at the plant. And this can only be done with the help of social programs, such as about was SSSR.YA understand that now in this volume provide social benefits is simply not possible, but to do something mozhno.Lgotnye conditions of the mortgage, providing hostels, provision of childcare places, etc. This is what our government needs to take care of if they really want to revive industry.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 6 February 2014 15: 21
      +1
      Quote: Ralex
      It is necessary to increase the prestige of working at the factory, and this can only be done with the help of social programs, as it was in the USSR.

      And which ones? Kudos can be raised only by working conditions. The state here can help nothing, no social. advertising will not save. A young guy should understand that having got a job at a factory he will be able to provide himself better than working as a security guard or a sales assistant. And so, they wanted to spit on prestige, most importantly money ...
      1. Prosha
        Prosha 8 February 2014 12: 42
        0
        And you need to conduct explanatory work, necessarily confirmed by material buns, that when working in production, you get certain things for a certain period of time, with the correct return from you: whether it is an increase in salary, getting an apartment or buying it with all kinds of benefits, etc. Yes even the provision of an apartment for rent for the duration of work at this enterprise may be of interest to someone, but at the same time it is necessary that the enterprise has basic conditions for work and leisure, and not such as mine shop. (((
  16. Altona
    Altona 6 February 2014 08: 41
    0
    Quote: Vanya sevdonim
    How to fill and create FZU for the defense industry !? It means this: We fire Rogozin and send him to the director of the FZU, let's say, to Tula. And so with all "successful managers".

    ------------------------------------
    The work should be systemic ... A bunch of specialists thrown in without a well-functioning system will not do anything ... The state still does not understand this and thinks that everything can be solved with just shoving finances, but this is wrong ... The educational institution should have a production base and a chef's factory, to which it prepares specialists ... In Kaluga, such educational institutions began to be done on their own, a large industrial cluster required a stream of competent modern workers and specialists ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 6 February 2014 12: 42
      +3
      Quote: Altona
      large industrial cluster

      Is that a cluster? I won’t minus them, but these words from the TV are sick of it. Rossiya24- logistics transportation between the clusters of Sochi ...FOR DOLL-BA-LEE.
  17. morpogr
    morpogr 6 February 2014 08: 48
    +8
    I want to give an example from my experience. They decided to send the older one to college after the 9th grade so that he would not train for two years for the exam, but he received a profession and education. They chose a communications college because their website explained everything competently. This college trains many specialists in most demanded professions now. But the most interesting thing is that the companies "Samsung" and "Siemens" are working very closely with this college, namely, they made modern working classes on their equipment, they take students for practice at their enterprises, and after graduating from college, the best The foreigners did not reinvent the wheel, but took the best in Soviet vocational education, assigning schools and technical schools to specific industries.
  18. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 6 February 2014 08: 57
    +3
    This time A. Volodin wrote, alas, a naive article: A director who pays a worker more than himself, or the same. Show this miracle. For this, the directors are paid "masters of life" so that they pay the rest as little as possible. Of course, you can "dream" of a high-class turner or locksmith, but their principle is one - to lure from another enterprise by giving a thousand more. It takes more than one year, or even five, to get a high-class worker (by the way, an engineer, too, one head is not enough). And it’s good to pay a newbie, and not for one year. There is only one way out - the state. On the contrary, power is eliminated from these problems. It is enough to look at the correspondence and size of the minimum wage and the minimum subsistence level. With difficulty, but in the USSR, the prestige of the worker was raised - both with the ruble and with honor. Still, there were many lumpen. Who remembers, remember who went to study at vocational school. But you still have to start. One of the steps is to teach working professions from school. I remember that in the 60s, graduates already received real grades. True, this was achieved by the fact that in the 11th grade there were more students at factories than at school.
    Ideally, I see only a return to Soviet values.
    Quote: Asgard
    AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ...
    .
    1. Volodin
      6 February 2014 12: 59
      +7
      A director who pays a worker more than himself. Or as much.
      Where did you find it in the article? It’s not about the welder Vasya getting the same amount as the director Vasil'vanich (this is objective nonsense and a complete utopia), but about not having a 20-30-fold gap, when the first one gets 20 thousand, and the second one - 600 thousand. The gap in the incomes of workers and managers in the so-called developed countries is 4-5 times (this is the limit set by corporate laws). If we want to position ourselves as a developed country (at least someday), then the difference in income (at the legislative level) must be reduced. It's another matter - who among the "haves" will allow it today ... This (including), apparently, is both the naivety of the article and the deplorable state of the industry.
      1. atalef
        atalef 6 February 2014 13: 22
        +2
        Quote: Volodin
        The income gap between workers and managers in the so-called developed countries is 4-5 times (this is the limit established by corporate laws).

        I absolutely agree with you
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 6 February 2014 16: 46
        +4
        Quote: Volodin
        Where did you find this in the article? It's not about the welder Vasya getting the same amount as the director Vasilvanich (this is objective nonsense and complete utopia)

        This is not in your article. Excuse me, I have brought your thought to the point of absurdity in modern conditions that "The fact is that in a number of industrial enterprises the management itself is not opposed to paying quite good salaries to qualified employees by average Russian standards.". I just still remember the times when the welder Vasya could making money more director Vasilvanich.
        I called the article naive because I see no prerequisites for a more even distribution of the results of labor under the current system. The government and the authorities as a whole are doing nothing and do not intend to do anything in this direction. So, "the power must be changed ..." smile
        Sincerely.
  19. Gray 43
    Gray 43 6 February 2014 09: 02
    +2
    No specialists can be found in the main industrial centers, for sure they are in neighboring regions, but there is no well-functioning mechanism for moving and living
  20. Greenwood
    Greenwood 6 February 2014 09: 03
    +3
    The main problem in the lack of personnel in Russia is not even low salaries (at many factories, I know they are quite high) and not the absence of technical schools and colleges. The main problem of the working class in Russia is the lack of the PRESTIGE of the working class as such in the country. Imagine a picture, at a meeting of former classmates you say that you work as an electrician or a welder or just a general specialist, but a working specialty at some thread of a factory, that you are appreciated and respected, you are considered a good specialist, etc. And in the eyes your classmates will instantly see irony, ridicule, bordering on contempt (I'm talking primarily about the generations of the late 80s-early 90s). If earlier, in the USSR, the propaganda of the working class was conducted at the state level, the exploits of workers were glorified in the news, newspapers, magazines, films were made about this, they sang in songs, etc., now to be a worker is, in the eyes of the public, to be a failure ... In modern Russia, through the efforts of Western films and our corrupt mass media, the image of an office plankton, an effective manager, a lawyer, etc. is cultivated. Hence, such huge flows of applicants entering and studying for the next economists, lawyers, advertising managers, etc. Everyone wants to sit in the office at a computer, do nothing really and receive a salary of 50-100 thousand. Sobsno, a significant part of the residents of Moscow, where we have the head offices of most companies in the country, are doing exactly this. And the mentality of young people is built precisely on this: "I'd rather get a little less, but sit at the computer in social networks and pretend to be dull, than for a lot of money I'll wrap the nuts at some thread of the factory; here's a pancake, in my native Muhoska for sitting they give me little money from the computer, I'll go to Moscow, they say they pay well; no, in Moscow everything is expensive and it doesn't work well either, I'll go over the hill, it's good to live there, but this country is shit, etc. etc. ".
  21. Farvil
    Farvil 6 February 2014 09: 03
    0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bxtyGTedEo Делягин в это видео расставил всё по полочкам.
  22. Sanyht
    Sanyht 6 February 2014 09: 08
    +4
    the main thing in the defense industry is the greed of pathological salary gliders ... if you pay less than the black man in the USA has unemployment benefits, then this is the desire -WORK FOR THE GOOD COUNTRY.
  23. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 6 February 2014 09: 50
    +7
    The salary of a director in Germany cannot be higher than four minimum wages in production, for example, a cleaning lady, Frau Gretchen, receives 2000 euros, a director's salary is 2000 * 4 = 8000. do you want to get more? raise staff salaries. Labor productivity among workers in Russia is nowhere higher. Look at the photo at the beginning. the machine is about 60 years old. it seems 1K62, or 1A62. Plus rubber on top to reduce box noise. How can you increase productivity on it? Moreover, these machines are very good. Also about productivity and cost. Of course you've seen the trucks? carrying capacity and speed are the same and the brands of trucks are almost the same that we have in America or in Europe. We probably saw the trucks "Mercy" of the "business lines" cargo company on the road. Their daily mileage rate is 900 km. salary 25000 - 30000 rubles. Americans have no more than 600 km of mileage and a salary of $ 4000-6000. I watched the movie "ice roads of Alaska" on the Internet. So there the long-range salary is 25000 -35000 dollars. They serve oil production. The cost of oil seems to be the same, world-wide.
    1. Sinbad
      Sinbad 6 February 2014 11: 21
      +2
      And still it is worth paying attention to the difference in incomes among technical specialists and all accountants-procurers there. Precisely income! And then the workers do not know how to make ends meet (and this is a pilot plant), and the chief accountant buys a villa in Cyprus. Who wants to be a worker, but the chief accountant ....
  24. konvalval
    konvalval 6 February 2014 10: 45
    +1
    And the answer is simple to change the prime minister and the minister of education.
  25. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 6 February 2014 11: 07
    +1
    Today, almost all high school graduates go to college. We will not discuss the level of training of such students. But what is the use of such education, in practice, almost everyone knows. In the same time the vocational education system was destroyed. Highly skilled workers have ceased to enter the enterprises. As a result, rockets are falling, there is an acute shortage of skilled workers. There is an urgent need to restore secondary schools in the type of vocational schools.
  26. apro
    apro 6 February 2014 11: 08
    +2
    Do you need these very workers, professional specialists? Is there an order quickly we are looking for a lot of money we promise, we need to learn once we need to get an estimate, it’s handed over salaries, we’ve run away ... -that somehow industry and construction work. There is no long-term planning and perspectives for people, today he is a welder tomorrow slinging after a stone-maker will never come of it. What is the use of learning when to apply your skills there is practically nowhere.
  27. calocha
    calocha 6 February 2014 11: 11
    +1
    Vocational schools need to revive!
  28. Bene valete
    Bene valete 6 February 2014 11: 37
    +1
    Gentlemen, I think the main REAL DESIRE FOR AUTHORITIES is to change something, and not to write Intentions!
    If there is a REAL desire, and not blah blah blah ... All of the above problems will be solved by themselves (not immediately of course, but very quickly).
    A simple example: For a working specialty (I don’t even talk about ITRs) in the oil and gas industry, there was a competition line of 6-9 people for a place, I really saw it myself. They are selected, taught in 2-3 months, the probationary period, respectively, and there are no problems! Those. if you really need to ... then everything turns out.

    The military-industrial complex, in fact, is not needed by anyone, that's the attitude! They are appointed to lead, so "their children will be reassigned to be recorded in the track record," neither obligations nor responsibility.
    Prestige does not rise with words, but with real things: HEADS, not temporary workers, salaries appropriate for everyone, guarantees, stability of social package, etc.
  29. fktrcfylhn61
    fktrcfylhn61 6 February 2014 11: 39
    +3
    And the answer is simple to change the prime minister and the minister of education.

    Change everyone in the head! For the fish rots from the head! And those who below let them fulfill their job descriptions in full, and again not for conscience but for fear !!! And then stolen in general! All in power should be seven spans in the forehead, or in place!
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 6 February 2014 16: 25
      +1
      Quote: fktrcfylhn61
      Change everyone in the head!

      Quote: fktrcfylhn61
      And the answer is simple to change the prime minister and the minister of education.
      Contradict yourself. Who is in our head? That's right, Putin. So it is necessary to remove it, naturally, along with Medvedev and the whole stealing top of EdRa.
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 6 February 2014 17: 49
        +1
        Quote: Greenwood
        Contradict yourself. Who is in our head? That's right, Putin. So it is necessary to remove it, naturally, along with Medvedev and the whole stealing top of EdRa.

        And in his place, probably you? And all the hard workers will immediately receive a director's salary. And here Putin, if the director of the enterprise, on the spot, the king and god himself appoints a salary. Here we need a law on salaries, as in civilized countries. But we cannot wait for such a law, because it is not profitable for our deputies to chop the branch on which they sit. Putin, by order, will not be able to do this, he still does not have enough opportunities, the opposition of the liberals is too great. Until our period of wild capitalism ends, there will be no order in the country. Everything can be eradicated only by the Stalin method, but I'm afraid then half the population will have to be shot. country.
  30. sinukvl
    sinukvl 6 February 2014 11: 49
    +1
    How how! Lift and read historical documents from the period 1925-1953, about how under Stalin they raised the Higher and Secondary Special Education and raise the current one using our achievements of those times, and not stupidly copy the staffing system, which for the most part is designed to train non-highly qualified specialists, and average performers.
    1. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 11: 58
      -1
      Quote: sinukvl
      about how under Stalin they raised the Higher and Secondary Special Education and raise the current using our achievements of those times

      Vocational schools, and especially technical schools, were simply overloaded with absolutely unnecessary subjects. Well, ask me why the electrical technician (sapromat, industry technology, organic and inorganic chemistry, biology, political economy) - there were a lot of absurdly unnecessary items that I didn’t need (as an example) in my work (and for 30 years already) not once, and even if it were needed, there is no problem finding specialized specialists. But at the same time, subjects such as TOE, power supply, electrical machines, transformers. automation, electric drive - what a normal engineer needs almost daily - were given in insufficient volume
      Soviet education tried to give everything and as much as possible - it does not work like that. everything turned out like that. but in fact, nobody at the enterprise taught everything anew.
      It is necessary to prepare specialists according to the profile and not be distracted by the unnecessary.
      Again, as an example, I see what kind of engineers come to us (they did not teach political economy, sopromat, chemistry), but after 3 months they calmly work independently and conduct projects.
      How to explain?
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 6 February 2014 20: 51
        0
        There is some truth, but technical schools did not train engineers, but technicians. Engineers were trained at universities, an engineer just needed a wide range of knowledge, but there were also technical institutes: history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, political economy, in somewhat overestimated volumes.
  31. Gray 43
    Gray 43 6 February 2014 11: 51
    +1
    What to say about the defense industry complex - there were no good electricians and locksmiths even for housing maintenance
  32. Sochi
    Sochi 6 February 2014 11: 55
    +2
    From rags to riches - this is our oligarchic class today. They only need show-offs, and today, and now, here they are from the enterprises all the juices. And tomorrow, even though the grass does not grow, the business will be sold to the farmers and dumped over a hill. Pleasing for his business and the interests of the fatherland, the OWNER must still be raised and educated. And this, I think, is the second or third generation. Previously, nothing, only separate episodes. So, all these programs are transfusion from empty to empty.
  33. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 6 February 2014 12: 00
    +1
    Personnel, of course, is a complex of tasks. If we are already talking about widespread shortages, then it becomes a state problem. In the opinion of many, our government is more observers in the economic sphere, i.e. there is no need to wait for any organizational actions. Young people who come are absolutely inert. Apparently a consequence of our current education and the work of the media. For 15 years of work, one person remained in our team, although 15 people came. The specialty (instrumentation locksmith) requires, of course, special knowledge (in our time, probably everywhere like that), there were no such things at all. Salary, of course, should allow you to satisfy your needs at least in the long term (and not for retirement). Previously, he worked in the oil industry. After the appearance of connections with abroad, such an anecdote appeared (or maybe the truth). We are asked how many years he worked in the oil industry, he answers all his life. They say to him: "Why are you so greedy." I meant having worked in the "oil industry" for a certain number of years abroad, you could earn for a certain period of your future life. This is the current situation. If the problem goes to the state level, then the government should give impetus to the process by its actions. I'm still talking about the principle, because from its representatives so far only a statement of facts.
  34. parus2nik
    parus2nik 6 February 2014 12: 04
    +1
    Our leader and teacher, Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, said that the whole problem in the Russian economy is that a very expensive labor force ... that even a pay of 15000 does not allow the economy to develop normally, it is necessary to attract cheaper labor ... The economy will explode up.. smile
    1. Orik
      Orik 6 February 2014 13: 54
      0
      In our country, one person determines the development vector, and this is not a vegetable that you described. The truth must be looked into the eyes!
      1. parus2nik
        parus2nik 6 February 2014 14: 07
        0
        And what are you so for the mind of Dmitry Anatolevich offended .. smile What does not think, then speaks smile
    2. Gray 43
      Gray 43 6 February 2014 15: 35
      +3
      Brilliant !!!! All officials have a salary of 15 rubles, then it will be fair, and maybe they can get the Duma from guest workers)))))))
    3. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 6 February 2014 20: 54
      0
      Unfortunately, but in industry it is round.
  35. kim. 230752
    kim. 230752 6 February 2014 12: 37
    +5
    Quote: Canep
    Quote: Asgard
    when it HELPED to ruin the USSR ... (as far as I remember))

    Here is the track record of Shoigu until the 91st year.
    1977-1978 - master of the trust "Promkhimstroy", Krasnoyarsk
    1978 — 1979 - master, head of the section of the trust "Tuvinstroy", Kyzyl (capital of the Tuva Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic)
    1979-1984 - Senior foreman, chief engineer, head of the construction department SU-36 of the trust "Achinskalyuminstroy", Achinsk
    1984 — 1985 - Deputy manager of the trust "Sayanalyuminstroy", Sayanogorsk
    1985 — 1986 - Manager of the trust "Sayantyazhstroy", Abakan
    1986 — 1988 - Manager of the trust "Abakanvagonstroy", Abakan
    1988 — 1989 - Second Secretary of the Abakan CC of the CPSU, Abakan
    1989 — 1990 - Inspector of the Krasnoyarsk Regional Committee of the CPSU, Krasnoyarsk
    1990 — 1991 - Deputy Chairman of the State Committee of the RSFSR for Architecture and Construction, Moscow
    1991 - Chairman of the Russian Rescue Corps, Moscow

    Tell me what position and how he could somehow influence the collapse or preservation of the USSR.
    Leave Shoigu alone, he is the only person in business in the government, and as a minister he can afford assistants of any gender and age, and in quite a large number.



    Interestingly, in which of the positions Shoigu acquired the qualities necessary to meet the military rank of "army general" ??????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????
    1. Orik
      Orik 6 February 2014 13: 56
      +2
      Interestingly, in which of the positions Shoigu acquired the qualities necessary to meet the military rank of "army general" ??????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????

      But dad Shoigu is a friend of Eltsin. Shoigu faithfully served everyone from Eltsin in 1991 and 1993, to Putin. Here and the marshal will not be surprised.
  36. jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 6 February 2014 12: 37
    0
    young people do not go into production, either they go out of hopelessness or without experience, or "kosyachniki" and in general the level has become low, in our small factory many locksmiths do not even know how to sharpen a drill, it personally surprises me. , and also motivate him to stay, unfortunately our director does not understand this or does not want to understand.
  37. AlexA
    AlexA 6 February 2014 12: 40
    +6
    Quote: atalef
    Vocational schools, and especially technical schools, were simply overloaded with absolutely unnecessary subjects. Well, ask me why the electrical technician (sapromat, industry technology, organic and inorganic chemistry, biology, political economy) - there were a lot of absurdly unnecessary items that I didn’t need (as an example) in my work (and for 30 years already) not once, and even if it were needed, there is no problem finding specialized specialists.

    You, Mr. Atalef, are simply genuinely wrong. Knowledge from those disciplines that you "did not need" you actually used constantly, on the subconscious, making decisions on the same electrical engineering when you correctly installed the brackets, or did the twisting (this is so, offhand). A broad erudition (not necessarily detailed applied knowledge) is precisely what is needed in order to understand WHICH specialized specialist needs to be involved in solving a specific problem. And without this erudition, which is generated precisely as a result of the comprehensive development of related "unnecessary" disciplines, stupid decisions are made that lead to the collapse of production.
    And the current leaders, though moaning about the lack of qualified personnel, but when it comes to their worthy payment, so in fact it must be torn away from oneself, a loved one. And then you will have to assign yourself a salary that is not 30 times higher than the engineering salary (as the author of the article quite reasonably writes), but only 10 times (it must be, what begging!). And here - stop! So they are still looking for an "experienced" engineer for the salary of a warehouse worker at the same enterprise on recruiting sites. And half of the "managerial".
    So not a damn thing changes with the training of really qualified personnel. Young people do not go there. She's bored. There, in addition to electrical engineering, it is necessary to teach a bunch of boring and obscure "strength materials". Yes, in the long term - for the money of a loader. And much less chauffeur.
    And again Asgard is right: without changing the current "elite" NOTHING WILL MOVE.
  38. Ilja 22
    Ilja 22 6 February 2014 12: 43
    0
    Yes, you need to start from the very top, where your legs grow from! Officials as a class should be eliminated, it’s necessary to learn, someday it will come in handy anyway, but there’s just nowhere to work, the latter is taxed, just buy-sell, and whoever has more ... t ... and we live))
  39. ddd1975
    ddd1975 6 February 2014 13: 06
    +1
    The question in the article was "narrowed" a little - the question should be raised about the quality of education in general. Whoever seriously studied such a concept as motivation in particular (in Russia, by the way, the issue is poorly worked out) will be able to solve the problem raised in the article - although it is not easy, but can.
  40. Galinanp
    Galinanp 6 February 2014 13: 17
    0
    The collapse of prof. education, and education in general since the 90s throughout the territory of the former USSR was, among others, one of the main directions of the Anglo-Saxon war against Russia.
    1. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 13: 24
      0
      Quote: GalinaNP
      The collapse of prof. education, and education in general since the 90s throughout the territory of the former USSR was, among others, one of the main directions of the Anglo-Saxon war against Russia.

      Well, yes, they destroyed all the faculties of locksmiths and welders, for which they established economists and lawyers
      Is this their same plan?
      And who generally resisted?
  41. Orik
    Orik 6 February 2014 13: 28
    +3
    All that the author pointed out fairly to the current system is the maximum possible now, although cooperation between the enterprise and the educational institution is often not feasible. Most of the business lives within the short-term 1-3 years and medium-term 4-6 years of planning, there is no place for training from school. Large private corporations should feel that they belong to the country, and it’s better to establish and place an expat in China. Large government agencies are now often led by financiers who do not understand operational processes, those rare positive examples probably reflect the numbers of real leaders.
    I propose to start by understanding who the specialist is? Its foundation is an internal disposition, a person with abilities, but lazy, absurd, impatient and so on will not become a professional. At the same time, an integral person respects himself and will not work with kooks for anyone who thinks he is a "high" leader. Those. it is necessary to change social relations, when the state of society is to minimize the education of self-righteous slobs and little self-righteous tyrants.
    Second, enterprises should have a stable planning horizon for 10-15 years, when the 5-8 years spent on training a specialist pay off. At the same time, a system of gradual and complex improvement of skills is being built, and not today's training in pieces. The specialist must know not only his part, but also the areas associated with it. Now you can hardly find this, everything brought into the vest of momentary profit and interests.
    Thirdly, the economy must constantly need highly qualified specialists, and not so yesterday, don’t need it today, come on, tomorrow we don’t know where to put it i.e. What is needed is a highly redistributed economy capable of producing everything from a bolt, a machine tool to complex machines and apparatuses yesterday, today, tomorrow.
    Fourth, the candidate for specialists should immediately receive at least 60% of the specialist’s income (and this is not even the average salary, for example, if the operator of the processing center receives up to 100 000, then salary of the assistant when accepting at least 30, in a year 60. In simpler positions, income should be increased also at times). Someone will say for what? You see, a young man is getting married now, giving birth to children, he must take a girl to a restaurant, and decide with housing. If he is paid a living wage or a little more, then he will inevitably look for where better, and this is leaps and inevitable fragmentary training i.e. inconsistency with paragraph two.
    No matter how you write it, it does not fit with the current model of the country, it is necessary to change the "conservatory". recourse In the written, much resembles the times of the USSR.
    1. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 13: 36
      +1
      Quote: Orik
      I suggest starting with understanding who the specialist is?

      They wrote everything absolutely correctly !!! hi
      One of the main reasons for the lack of specialists is that they are not in demand in the long run, but a person understands everything, if not

      Quote: Orik
      enterprises must have a stable planning horizon for 10-15 years

      That is not the rest hi
      1. Orik
        Orik 6 February 2014 13: 59
        0
        Thank! Industry is my pain ... crying
    2. atalef
      atalef 6 February 2014 13: 36
      0
      Quote: Orik
      I suggest starting with understanding who the specialist is?

      They wrote everything absolutely correctly !!! hi
      One of the main reasons for the lack of specialists is that they are not in demand in the long run, but a person understands everything, if not

      Quote: Orik
      enterprises must have a stable planning horizon for 10-15 years

      That is not the rest hi
  42. atalef
    atalef 6 February 2014 13: 38
    0
    Quote: sinukvl
    and not stupidly copy the staffing system, which in its mass is called upon to train not highly qualified specialists, but middle-performing artists.

    Well, suppose that in the States all the stupid performers, and there are no good specialists belay
    Please give an example of a country - the education system (professional) would suit you. Please, neither the Soviet Union, this country has been 23 years old, while the whole world has been developing somehow (and even before this, world progress was moving not only by Soviet specialists), yes and now does not stand still.
    I somehow hardly believe that, as an example, the new aircraft carrier in the USA was made by stupid performers, but where did they design and develop it? In China ?
    Therefore, in order not to be unfounded - from which country educated specialists who manage all the other stupid performers come out (so in your opinion)
  43. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 6 February 2014 13: 42
    +1
    O gods, my gods ... my capricorns ...
    How familiar it all is! An article with conclusions that were clear from the first paragraph. In a discussion with an iron rule, they remembered FZU ... Implementation of these "reasonable and adequate" measures will lead you know what? Don't you know? But it would be necessary ...
    Stalin carried out hurricane industrialization, pulled out the country like a weightlifter. And at the moment when it was necessary to begin to eliminate the catastrophic consequences of this hellish dash (the country is not a barbell. Stalin knew this best of all), an unprecedented war took place. The USSR defeated, but its diseases passed from acute to chronic. Stalin simply did not have enough life. And those who replaced him ... well, you are in the know, I will not repeat myself.
    So here. When the dust subsided and it became possible to look around, a very bleak picture emerged. The USSR easily mastered something fundamentally new. Then tightly stuck. It was necessary to debug the production of a new one, finish it and polish it. Instead, the process of deterioration of an unfinished sample began. Everything that the USSR did at first was cool, but somewhat clumsy. Then the next stage came - it was no longer cool, and clumsy in every way ... But the USSR was not capable of developing any direction further in principle, it was not work but some kind of horror. It seemed that a colossal factory for converting good to waste was working ...
    There are many reasons for this, but one of the most important is the training system. Do not think that Soviet scientists did not understand anything like that. Even as they understood. Numerous, and, moreover, quite effective studies have been carried out that have shown the causes of this phenomenon and ways to overcome it. Everything could be done. But the authorities in the Union were no longer interested in all this socialism, and even lost communication with scientists - they did not catch up with anything that these strange scientists say. What strikingly reminded our modern government.
    With the introduction of the set of measures proposed in the article, and which seems so balanced and reasonable, Russia will lose any chance for advanced industrial development. After a period of 5-7 years, the maximum, during which we will have more or less new production, a collapse will occur akin to the Soviet one - we will lose the ability to catch up with new industries of competitors. This time - forever. There can be nothing better for our enemies! How should you do it? Is it too little for the author to study the question? Search for sources, think, work? Or will we continue to observe exclusively the blogging effect - instead of thinking, the release of undigested facts? You know, this is not a product of thinking, but "work" akin to defecation ...
  44. coserg 2012
    coserg 2012 6 February 2014 14: 10
    0
    In the 80s, there were nautical schools at nautical engineering schools that trained class specialists for the fleet. Sailor, mechanic, refinemanist, pipeline operator, etc. According to requests, they supplied specialists for all. These guys made up the color of conscripts on the Navy ships (previously passed through training) Then the military invited the best to long-term service and the rest went back to the civilian fleet upon returning home. It seems that nobody just needs it, they picked up the tops and forward. A real engineer is needed, and before zhnosti menedzher.Kogda it seems called sales department, and was the chief engineer of the Department sbyta.A is another, more valuable and expensive (as in moral and material terms), but its hard to cross their manager.
  45. Wurger
    Wurger 6 February 2014 14: 15
    +3
    The article is a plus, but there are a few words. the transfer of enterprises from private hands to the state in itself will not solve the problem. In Belarus, although organizations are called JSCs - open joint-stock companies, in fact these are either words on the signboard, or the state's share is such that the enterprise is practically state-owned. We do not have private factories, factories and trusts in the full sense of the word. We believe that everything is state-owned. But the situation with the workers is awful. I know what I'm talking about, I myself worked as a hard worker at a construction site. Treating workers like livestock. The salary is 1.5-2 times less than the declared one. No sanitary and living conditions. In short, like the very Azerbaijanis who are at your construction sites and factories, only Belarusians. with such an attitude and salary, they have achieved that there is one drunk and a trash. There are only a few normal people and they don't stay there for a long time. I believe that the name "highly skilled labor force" is correct. We need a new approach to people, normal wages and working conditions, and not the well-known "I am the boss - you" and "Don't like it? Wali, there are 10 people like you on the street!" In Belarus, the staff shortage is even sharper than yours, since good specialists, and just sensible men leave for Russia not wanting to hump for a penny from the red tyrant directors.
  46. Stinger
    Stinger 6 February 2014 14: 24
    0
    The best post-war Japanese training system and organization of production has not been invented. This explains the jump in their industrial production. Who is interested, I advise you to read a wonderful, talentedly written book-study of this issue, "The Fifteenth Stone of Reanji Garden." The author Vladimir Tsvetov, who worked for many years in Japan.
  47. AnaBat
    AnaBat 6 February 2014 14: 26
    +1
    Quote: Asgard
    Meet ... the head of the main department of social communications, in the rank of MINISTER of the Moscow Region (26 years old))) Irina Pleshcheva.
    The photo is fresh, Comrad in the morning to cheer up))))) Top-in-the-wood ...
    Of course, it will not help the ECONOMY of the region ....
    The same girl in Shoigu's assistants !!! Helps the Minister of Defense ????


    Girls are nothing! They obviously lack a mentor (to reason and educate :))!
  48. fktrcfylhn61
    fktrcfylhn61 6 February 2014 15: 19
    +1
    In order not to delve into social relations, you just need to remove the misunderstanding that is undeserved and not earned, has privileges over everyone else! And to be honest, how much can be poured from empty to empty! Starting from the one who created this article to those who discuss it: empty chimes !!!
    It's like waving fists with a fist, stupid! Everyone understands what is the matter, what is the question? How many consequences can be treated, not causes!
  49. Criceta
    Criceta 6 February 2014 16: 34
    0
    For graduates of universities:
    1. Salary is not lower than the industry average.
    2. An enterprise can act as a guarantor of a mortgage loan (while a person works at the enterprise)
    3. The company pays for fully / partially education at the university, with the subsequent signing of a contract for 5-10 years, in case of early termination, the employee reimburses the "unworked amount".
    4. Armor from conscription.

    If you complete all four points - the queue will stand. The second point is the most mythical because there are no mechanisms for today.
  50. alal
    alal 6 February 2014 16: 40
    +4
    Quote: Asgard
    AUTHORITY TO CHANGE ...
    And then do what Alexey Volodin suggested.
    While they decide in the "personnel" department, there will be no sense.
    To illustrate, I will give an example that is far from private (the tendency, so to speak, since the days of "Serdyukov", his business LIVES)))))THANKS TO THE KREMLIN-politics !! ,, ??
    Meet ... the head of the main department of social communications, in the rank of MINISTER of the Moscow Region (26 years old))) Irina Pleshcheva.
    The photo is fresh, Comrad in the morning to cheer up))))) Top-in-the-wood ...
    Of course, it will not help the ECONOMY of the region ....
    The same girl in Shoigu's assistants !!! Helps the Minister of Defense ????
    photoset (Marinochka Kitaeva with a bull toilet))) clickable ...
    Kitaeva Marina Advisor to ShoiguKitaeva Marina Advisor to Shoigu

    They are professional))))

    Some post is "unpatriotic", for some reason they added up, it's against the president! Doesn't he know? I am sure he does not know about the ugliness, otherwise everything would immediately become good!
    1. AnaBat
      AnaBat 6 February 2014 16: 57
      +1
      We have such a ball SEREDUKOV with the Amazons ... These apparently passed by inheritance ...