Military Review

"Intelligence and reconnaissance"

31
"Intelligence and reconnaissance"

"In Israel, the majority of terrorists are condemned by military tribunals, which have more powers than civilian courts," political analyst Benny Briskin told THE VIEW of the opinion. He told in what ways Israel learned how to prevent terrorist attacks and how it differs from Russian methods.


A group of deputies immediately from all four factions introduced on Wednesday to the State Duma a large block of amendments to the anti-terrorism legislation in connection with the recent bombings in Volgograd. As the newspaper VIEW, the Duma members suggested not only extending the powers of the FSB and punishing even terrorist accomplices with life terms, but also limiting the size of electronic payments in the country, as well as obliging social networks to store data about their users for a long time.

“In preparing the bill, the experience of foreign countries in the fight against terrorism was taken into account, in particular, we focused on the experience of Israel as one of the countries most affected by the terrorist threat,” Oleg Denisenko, a deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, explained to the VIEW newspaper.

As follows from the Israeli press, anti-terrorism legislation in this country is indeed even stricter than in Russia. So, back in 2007, the authorities recognized the existence of two secret paragraphs in licenses obtained by cellular companies and Internet service providers, allowing the secret services to access their computers at any time. This allowed the Shabak to require information from mobile operators about calls and messages from their customers.

Also, long before similar norms appeared in Russian legislation, even verbal appeals to acts of terror and public approval of terrorist activities were very strictly punished in Israel.

About what analogies can be drawn between the new measures proposed in the State Duma and the already existing norms of the Jewish state, Benny Briskin, a former adviser to the Israeli Prime Minister, executive director of the Russian Jewish Congress, told the VZGLYAD interview.

VIEW: Mr. Briskin, the deputies propose to expand the powers of the FSB officers, giving them, like the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the right to body searches of suspicious citizens, their belongings and vehicles. Is there something similar in Israel?

Benny Briskin: The situation in Israel is a bit different. In the Israeli police there is a special unit, the so-called Border Service. But actually this is such a military gendarmerie. These are policemen in green military uniform, specially trained. They serve there urgent, and then extra special service.

They are primarily engaged in similar things. Ordinary police, who wear a blue uniform, are engaged in transport, traffic, and public order. They also have the authority to engage in something, but they do not specifically deal with issues of fighting terrorism, only if circumstances are forced (if there is no one nearby).

VIEW: For the organization of terrorist attacks and the seizure of hostages, as well as the financing of terrorist activities in Russia, it has been proposed to introduce punishment up to life imprisonment. The same kind of punishment may threaten the organization of a terrorist community, an illegal armed group and participation in them ...

BB: In Israel, of course, there are special articles for terrorist activities. Most terrorists are sitting on these articles. Moreover, they are often condemned by military tribunals, which have more powers than civil courts. There are still special measures that make it possible to detain people for quite a long time while the investigation is underway. Such powers are at the internal security service - SHABAK.

Of course, special paragraphs of legislation aimed at preventing and punishing terrorist activities exist and include punishments up to lifelong ones.

VIEW: Russian deputies also propose to limit the size of the possible transfer of money through electronic payment systems 1 thousand rubles per day instead of the current 40 thousand.

BB: There is no such measure in Israel. An attempt to combat the transfer of money to terrorist activities is carried out using the internal security service, intelligence methods, and not an attempt to control the transfer of money from a private account to a private account. In Israel, restrictions may be by the tax authorities on the transfer of currency from country to country. These restrictions are governed by financial law, not anti-terrorism. Storiesso that we can transfer 100 shekels or 5 dollars a day, we do not have.

VIEW: At the same time deputies propose to tighten control over the transfer of information on the web. In particular, individuals and legal entities will be obliged, in the manner prescribed by the government, to notify Roskomnadzor of the commencement of information dissemination and data exchange activities between Internet users.

B. B.: There is no such thing either and it is unlikely to be introduced. Such a measure is ineffective, in my opinion. She is toothless, it can not be controlled in any way. And this law is likely to be violated, and not by terrorists. It is very difficult to implement. I do not know what is the meaning of this law. In Israel, they are trying to fight all these things with the help of intelligence, including electronic, and not with the help of a ban.

Everyone would like to limit the possibilities of the Internet, but it is in vain. In the short introductory course, you can learn a simple way to transfer information even without transferring it electronically. Conventionally, a person writes a bomb making formula in an email, but does not send it anywhere. A person in another city is in the same mailbox and just reads the drafts. And you do not need to pass anything anywhere. This simple example was used by terrorists.

VIEW: In general, in Israel, the laws are stricter in the antiterrorist sphere than in Russia?

BB: It’s difficult to make exact analogies. In Russia, there is such a tendency, as in the fight against corruption, to solve all issues by exacerbating penalties and criminal liability. But in fact, everything must be done so that the punishment is inevitable, both in the criminal code and in the anti-terrorism code.

What is being done in Israel in recent years and quite successfully is the prevention of terrorist activities. This is reconnaissance and once again reconnaissance of all kinds, including with sent spies, informers in local Palestinian organizations. These are all possible ways and direct prevention, as they say in Israel, of a ticking bomb. If, with the help of intelligence, they receive information that a person is going to attack, he is immediately destroyed.

The order is given virtually without trial, simply on the basis of one hundred percent clear intelligence information that a person goes with a bomb to explode in a shopping center. These so-called pinpoint liquidations, for which Israel is scolded and said that this is a disproportionate use of force, is the main measure in the fight against a terrorist who has already turned to the matter. He is already "zazomblen", he will not stop. It is stopped in this way.

On the security wall in Russia can not talk. In Moscow, in contrast to Jerusalem, you will not put a fence in the middle of the city. This tool can not be used here. Remains of intelligence and giving the army the authority to prevent terrorist attacks by pinpoint liquidations. I do not know how relevant this is in Russia, but I know for sure that this gives a result in Israel.
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  1. zart_arn
    zart_arn 17 January 2014 16: 05
    +18
    Israel has a long and successful experience in the fight against terrorism. Let some say that they act too cruelly and uncompromisingly, but in this case the end justifies the means (because the terrorist is no longer human) and the struggle is very effective. Worth learning.
    1. Alex_Popovson
      Alex_Popovson 17 January 2014 16: 21
      +5
      Worth learning

      Not just learning, but Borrowing, Borrowing, Borrowing, paraphrasing the Great And Chilling!
      1. Field
        Field 17 January 2014 18: 10
        +2
        Under the pretext of fighting terrorism and extremism, we are expanding control over the physical. persons.

        "VZGLYAD: At the same time, the deputies propose to tighten control over the transmission of information on the Internet. In particular, individuals and legal entities will be obliged, in accordance with the procedure established by the government, to notify Roskomnadzor about the start of activities to organize the dissemination of information and data exchange between Internet users."

        In social networks have long been tightly seated "servicemen", opera, collectors, marketers and all and sundry.
        And we ourselves are all reporting.
        1. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 17 January 2014 19: 23
          -2
          Quote: zart_arn
          but in this case, the end justifies the means (because a terrorist is no longer a person

          What the Palestinians are doing in Israel is the struggle for the liberation of the lands that Israel has taken from them, and Israel is fighting very successfully with them.

          Immediately interesting article began
          He told how Israel has learned to prevent terrorist attacks and what are the differences between its methods and Russian ones.


          Israel and Russia are distinguished by territory and a very obvious external enemy. He could and built a wall to his borders, and in order to get a Palestinian from Gaza to the West Bank, he had to pay Israel 1000 bucks ...

          So their experience, if taken, is only partially. Since destroying the homes of Palestinians - they are destroying houses not on their territory and depriving not their citizens of shelter.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 January 2014 19: 30
            +1
            Israel and Russia are distinguished by territory and a very obvious external enemy. He could and built a wall to his borders, and in order to get a Palestinian from Gaza to the West Bank, he had to pay Israel 1000 bucks ...

            You can link to the source of this nonsense, by the way from Gaza you can go to the West Bank through Egypt and Jordan --- Surprise, right?
            1. sledgehammer102
              sledgehammer102 17 January 2014 19: 59
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              By the way, from Gaza you can drive to the West Bank through Egypt and Jordan --- Surprise, right?


              I have a living Palestinian from Gaza in a group studying)) you can’t just take it and leave)
              And yes, when will Israel return all occupied territories?
              1. atalef
                atalef 17 January 2014 20: 12
                -1
                Quote: sledgehammer102
                Quote: atalef
                By the way, from Gaza you can drive to the West Bank through Egypt and Jordan --- Surprise, right?


                I have a living Palestinian from Gaza in a group studying)) you can’t just take it and leave)
                And yes, when will Israel return all occupied territories?

                Alive! Oh no no no . How did we not shoot him, and how did he leave?
                Can't you go through Egypt? But what is this, there is a common border, Israel does not control the checkpoint, and you cannot leave through Egypt. ask miraculously the surviving resident of Gaza laughing
        2. StolzSS
          StolzSS 17 January 2014 22: 21
          +1
          Yes, they are trying to compensate for their stupidity and inability to establish intelligence with new powers ... They want to control the network more tightly laughing naive fools ... they want to control the transfers, but they probably didn’t hear about the Oriental or Chinese box offices ... Oh, it's sad that everything is so stupidly done with us am
    2. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 17 January 2014 17: 14
      +3
      “In Israel, most terrorists are condemned by military tribunals, which have more powers than civil courts
      Here it would be for us to adopt in Russia .. Up to the three Cheka (there Jews led a lot of them) That's just better without their presence of course at the present time .. bully
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 17 January 2014 17: 32
        -3
        Quote: MIKHAN
        “In Israel, most terrorists are condemned by military tribunals, which have more powers than civil courts
        Here it would be for us to adopt in Russia .. Up to the three Cheka (there Jews led a lot of them) That's just better without their presence of course at the present time ..

        It will not work in Russia, as in Israel, our "Arabs" are not so noticeable.
        Here on VO there was an article about "democracy" in Israel, where a Jewish passer-by shot an Arab "suspect of terrorism" on a crowded street, and a peasant shot an Arab family that approached his house.
        There, the entire Jewish population is armed and perfectly dispenses with any intelligence and tribunal.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 January 2014 17: 48
          +5
          Quote: Corsair5912
          Here on VO there was an article about "democracy" in Israel, how there a Jewish passer-by shot an Arab passer-by on a crowded street "suspected of terrorism

          You can reference, in this case. or again OBS. In Israel, a lot of people go with weapons. but try to apply it. Therefore, many terrorists kill (say with a knife or shoot) immediately after the attack they throw weapons - because. they know - nobody-nobody will shoot at the unarmed - or go to prison with him

          Quote: Corsair5912
          There, the entire Jewish population is armed and perfectly dispenses with any intelligence and tribunal.

          Your words, yes, to God in the ears. Unfortunately, this is far from the case.
          If I can’t shoot a robber who has come into my house (and not threatening me), I must leave the house and call the police.
          If violence has not been applied to you - no one, no one has the right to attack first (even if you caught a thief in your own house)
          Not a case was given. when a thief climbed into a woman’s apartment and was bitten by a DOG LOCKED IN THE APARTMENT, he filed a lawsuit against her 9 while under investigation, by the way) and won compensation on that basis. that there was no sign on the door - CAUTION DOG.
          He simply stated - know that there is a dog. I would not go there.
          Baba pays. And here you are telling tales, come closer - they shot.
          1. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 17 January 2014 18: 06
            -2
            Quote: atalef
            a link is possible, in this case. or again OBS. In Israel, a lot of people go with weapons. but try to apply it. Therefore, many terrorists kill (say with a knife or shoot) immediately after the attack they throw weapons - because. they know - nobody-nobody will shoot at the unarmed - or go to prison with him

            Article - Why Israel is not Russia from 26.07.2013
            law enforcement practice, which is a precedent in Israel, is increasingly tending to endorse citizens' use of weapons for self-defense. After an attack by a Bedouin gang on an Israeli farmer’s family, during which a farmer shot and killed all the attackers, legislators supported this behavior with a special legislative act. Another example is recently in Jerusalem bystanders two attacks were immediately prevented. One an armed terrorist was shot dead by a soldier on vacation on an excursion, and a second terrorist was shot dead by a civilian passing by in a car.

            Why do Jews need intelligence and tribunal? They are all scouts, judges and executioners all rolled into one.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 January 2014 19: 08
              +2
              law enforcement practice, which is a precedent in Israel, is increasingly tending to endorse citizens' use of weapons for self-defense. After the Bedouin gang attacked the family of an Israeli farmer, during which the farmer shot and killed all the attackers, lawmakers supported this behavior with a special legislative act. Another example - recently in Jerusalem, two terrorist attacks were immediately prevented by casual passers-by. One soldier armed with an assault rifle was shot dead by a soldier on vacation on an excursion, and the second terrorist was shot dead by a civilian passing by in a car.

              I understand that you don’t even know how to read, or rather, you erase that you don’t feel comfortable
              The unfortunate farmer, whom the Bedouin gang robbed from night to night, finally used weapons - after killing ONE, he safely went to prison.
              Only after that was a law initiated and approved allowing the use of weapons in the event of a robbery, but only with a clear threat to life. Prior to this, even in the event of a threat, the use of weapons was problematic.
              Further - the sodat shot a terrorist armed with a machine gun (did you read your own post?),
              There would be more such lynching.
              1. Corsair5912
                Corsair5912 18 January 2014 09: 32
                0
                Quote: atalef
                The unfortunate farmer, whom the Bedouin gang robbed from night to night, finally used weapons - after killing ONE, he safely went to prison.

                The article does not say a word about the robbery and the farmer’s imprisonment. there is only the adoption of a law permitting the killing of Palestinians (Bedouins?) of terrorism suspects.
                Quote: atalef
                Further - the sodat shot a terrorist armed with a machine gun (did you read your own post?)

                A soldier "bystander" went on a tour with a weapon, saw a Palestinian with a "submachine gun" (surprisingly not with an MLRS), identified him as a terrorist (a terrorist is immediately visible, there is no yarmulke (kippa), so a terrorist), quickly interrogated him, conducted investigation, convicted and carried out the sentence.
                The occupier is always right.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 18 January 2014 10: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Corsair5912
                  The article does not say a word about the robbery and the farmer’s imprisonment. there is only the adoption of a law authorizing the killing of Palestinians (Bedouins?) suspected of terrorism

                  your not knowing the topic is not just amazing kills. Googled a little, so as not to look stupid
                  Shai Drori, owner of the Hawat Shai farm in the Negev, which has been repeatedly robbed, opened fire on four Bedouins who had entered the farm at night. As a result, two robbers were seriously injured.
                  The Bedouins poisoned the dog that guarded the farm and cut a hole in the fence. An armed farm owner came to the noise. Drori demanded that the robbers get out, but they went to him, and then he began to shoot.
                  To one of them, a bullet hit the femoral artery, and he soon died of blood loss, although Drorie tried to save his life. The murdered thief, Khaled Abu-Atrash (31), only a month ago was released from prison, where he spent four years for such offenses.
                  Police accused Drori of murder and illegal possession of weapons. His lawyer emphasizes that this is not about murder, but about self-defense.
                  Shay Drori slept in a stable, where he kept his sheep, because before his farm had already been robbed twice. One time a tractor was stolen from him, the second a flock of sheep.
                  Residents of agricultural settlements in the Negev sharply criticize the police, who are not able to put an end to the burglaries that have swept this region in recent months.

                  type Shay Drori - you will get so much information about this and taking Mr. (after that), I hope you stop writing nonsense
                  Quote: Corsair5912
                  beat the Palestinians (Bedouins?)

                  FURTHER BEDUINS _ NOT THE PALESTINIANS --- Remember this and don’t go to God to call you a Bedouin - a Palestinian - your head will be torn off
                  The Bedouins serve in the IDF and during the service they carry around the clock (they serve exclusively in combat units) weapons along with all IDF soldiers. But what can you do, the thief among them is missing

                  Quote: Corsair5912
                  Soldier "bystander" walked on a tour with weapons,

                  IDF soldiers related to combat units (including girls), support units for combat units (mainly men) MUST HAVE WEAPONS 24 HOURS A DAY. It doesn’t matter where you are at home, on the beach, at a party, at a museum or in a pub. All time. Or is it the same news for you
                  Quote: Corsair5912
                  saw a Palestinian with a "machine gun" (surprisingly not with a MLRS), identified him as a terrorist

                  Peacefully walking palaces with a gun? --- Everything is in order with the head. A Palestinian with a machine gun (in Israel) is automatically a terrorist — there simply cannot be another, because there can never be.
          2. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 18 January 2014 12: 09
            0
            Quote: atalef
            In Israel, a lot of people go with weapons. but try to apply it. Therefore, many terrorists kill (say with a knife or shoot) immediately after the attack they throw weapons - because. they know - nobody-nobody will shoot at the unarmed - or go to prison with him

            I didn’t write the article “Why Israel is not Russia” about “bystanders” of the killers.
            God, he chose the Jews, but he didn’t give a mind; you don’t blame the truth.
        2. Vitaly Anisimov
          Vitaly Anisimov 17 January 2014 18: 41
          +1
          Quote: Corsair5912
          Quote: MIKHAN
          “In Israel, most terrorists are condemned by military tribunals, which have more powers than civil courts
          Here it would be for us to adopt in Russia .. Up to the three Cheka (there Jews led a lot of them) That's just better without their presence of course at the present time ..

          It will not work in Russia, as in Israel, our "Arabs" are not so noticeable.
          Here on VO there was an article about "democracy" in Israel, where a Jewish passer-by shot an Arab "suspect of terrorism" on a crowded street, and a peasant shot an Arab family that approached his house.
          There, the entire Jewish population is armed and perfectly dispenses with any intelligence and tribunal.

          I agree of course .. And yet, the tribunals are not a bad idea .. The fact is that usually militants are simply destroyed by resistance and even if their hands are raised (because they know that the courts, appeals will start ... and all that screaming in the liber media and then letting go can (you’re tormented by writing) And if you take these mmmm alive to interrogate everything to reveal and be sure that the military tribunal will last forever .. (or almost ..) How many of them can be identified and the lives of ordinary citizens can be saved .. I think so ... (to a shusher Of course, you need to immediately wet it ..) and if it’s krupnyak .. (it’s like they dunked Udugov ... and if we could get it out in Russia ..) Oh, I told you a lot of things and declassified accounts .. from whom and for what .. Here are such things. . on an invisible front ..
          1. Corsair5912
            Corsair5912 17 January 2014 19: 11
            0
            Quote: MIKHAN
            And if you take these mmmm alive to interrogate everything to identify and be sure that the military tribunal forever .. (or almost ..) How many of them can be identified and the lives of ordinary citizens to save .. I think so .. (of course, you must immediately wet the shusher .. ) and if it’s a big one .. (it’s like they dunked Udugov ... and if he would be able to withdraw it in Russia ..) Oh, I told a lot of things and declassified accounts .. from whom and for what .. Here are such things .. on an invisible front ..

            You are undoubtedly right.
            I’m sure that after an emergency evisceration with interrogation, all the militants will certainly make an attempt to flee, and our law-abiding soldiers have to give a warning shot to their heads so that they can be scattered with brains faster.
    3. Christian
      Christian 17 January 2014 17: 37
      +1
      Friends! What are you talking about!? Our situation with Israel is fundamentally different: they live in the occupied territories and are fighting the Palestinian liberation movement, we have the machinations of Wahhabis who were raised with the connivance of the Russian authorities and with the help of intelligence from enemy states (including Israel). Here the strategy should be different.
      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 18 January 2014 00: 07
        -1
        Quote: Christian
        Friends! What are you talking about!? Our situation with Israel is fundamentally different: they live in the occupied territories and are fighting the Palestinian liberation movement, we have the machinations of Wahhabis who were raised with the connivance of the Russian authorities and with the help of intelligence from enemy states (including Israel). Here the strategy should be different.

        Captain inadequacy fellow It’s like you invented double standards, but now imagine the opposite:
        "they live in the occupied territories and are fighting the liberation movement of the Caucasians, we have the intrigues of Islamists brought up with the connivance of the world community, and with the help of intelligence services of enemy states (including Russia)"
        And you can't argue ... bully
    4. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 17 January 2014 17: 37
      +1
      As for the fact that the terrorist is not a person, then you have some kind of mess in your head. Any power is legalized terror in relation to dissenting and active people. Many people do not like, for example, the existing government in Russia. And the laws are such that you can’t say anything, don’t call, insult, or duel, much less take up arms. For your reassurance, I will say that in the USSR it was the same. So it turns out that the president is not a person? He will rot us in prison if, in his opinion, something is wrong.
    5. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 17: 51
      -2
      Quote: zart_arn
      Israel has a long and successful experience in the fight against terrorism. Let some say that they act too cruelly and uncompromisingly, but in this case the end justifies the means (because the terrorist is no longer human) and the struggle is very effective. Worth learning.

      Israel responds to terror with even more brutal terror, as is customary among the occupiers, sparing neither women nor children of the Arab population.
      It is unlikely that this is possible in Russia; the massacre of innocents is not in honor with the Russian people.
      Our special services should learn from the KGB of the USSR, which neutralized terrorists at the stage of preparing terrorist attacks.
      But, it often happens that our employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB know about the nests of slave traders, terrorists and drug dealers, but do nothing, because they are covered by the prosecutor's office, deputies of all kinds of thoughts, the administration and other officials lured by criminals.
      Mass media and "human rights activists" provide very powerful support to terrorists.
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 January 2014 17: 56
        +1
        Quote: Corsair5912
        Israel responds to terror with even more brutal terror, as is customary among the occupiers, sparing neither women nor children of the Arab population.

        Again OBS (or a reference please)

        Quote: Corsair5912
        It is unlikely that this is possible in Russia; the massacre of innocents is not in honor with the Russian people.

        If we could afford what the RA allowed itself in Chechnya - we would have long forgotten about the Arabs as a population - we would have shed everything in a week


        Quote: Corsair5912
        Mass media and "human rights activists" provide very powerful support to terrorists.

        Well, with this approach you have to fight terror for a long time fool
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 17 January 2014 18: 12
          -2
          Quote: atalef
          If we could afford what the RA allowed itself in Chechnya - we would have long forgotten about the Arabs as a population - we would have shed everything in a week

          Again OBS or a reference please.
          Quote: atalef
          Well, with this approach you have to fight terror for a long time

          The point is that the authorities and the media should not be on the side of the terrorists, but on the side of the fighters against terrorists, our officials should learn from the Jews, there is nothing to argue with.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 January 2014 18: 28
            +2
            Quote: Corsair5912
            Again OBS or a reference please

            Well I'm not you
            During the years of the first and second military campaigns in Chechnya, 160 people died. According to RIA Novosti, this was announced on Monday by the head of the State Council of Chechnya, Taus Dzhabrailov.
            "According to our rough estimates, about 150-160 thousand people died in the first and second campaigns in Chechnya. Of these, 30-40 thousand are Chechens," Dzhabrailov said at a press conference.
            According to him, in the first campaign there were a lot of civilian casualties. Including among the Russian-speaking residents of the republic, who had nowhere to leave the cities, in contrast to the Chechens who were hiding with relatives in the villages.

            for 67 years (from the date of the founding of Israel), Palestinians claim that about 15000 died (this is according to their data. obviously overpriced. but let it be 15000) by the way there are more - pliz to the studio. I did not find
            Now I understand what it is about

            Quote: Corsair5912
            The point is that the authorities and the media should not be on the side of terrorists, but on the side of fighters with terrorists

            those. by the statement of GDP - to soak in the toilet - you mean - to bathe in the jacuzzi?
            1. Corsair5912
              Corsair5912 17 January 2014 19: 00
              -1
              Quote: atalef
              for 67 years (from the date of the founding of Israel), Palestinians claim that about 15000 died (this is according to their data. obviously overpriced. but let it be 15000) by the way there are more - pliz to the studio. I did not find
              Now I understand what it is about

              You don’t even understand what you are quoting.
              Of the 160 thousands of people killed in Chechnya, 105 thousand people are an unarmed Russian-speaking population, slaughtered by a Chechen beast, and only 15 thousands of soldiers, and of 40 thousands of dead Chechens 35 thousands of armed militants, and only 5 thousands of conditionally civilians, but essentially active accomplices .
              And the Palestinians killed by the Jews are 90% civilians from bombed houses, schools and hospitals.
              If the RA acted by Jewish methods, it would have had no losses, and the Chechens would have lost 10-15 times more.
              1. atalef
                atalef 17 January 2014 19: 32
                +1

                You don’t even understand what you are quoting.
                Of the 160 thousands of people killed in Chechnya, 105 thousand people are an unarmed Russian-speaking population, slaughtered by a Chechen beast, and only 15 thousands of soldiers, and of 40 thousands of dead Chechens 35 thousands of armed militants, and only 5 thousands of conditionally civilians, but essentially active accomplices .
                And the Palestinians killed by the Jews are 90% civilians from bombed houses, schools and hospitals.
                If the RA acted by Jewish methods, it would have had no losses, and the Chechens would have lost 10-15 times more.

                a reference can be to the source or again OBS, as I bring the sources, maybe follow my example
                1. Corsair5912
                  Corsair5912 17 January 2014 21: 22
                  -2
                  Quote: atalef
                  a reference can be to the source or again OBS, as I bring the sources, maybe follow my example

                  There are many references, but the numbers are different in all, so there is no unambiguous official statistics except for this:
                  According to data published by the State Council of Chechnya, from 1991 to 2005, 160 thousand people died in Chechnya, of which approximately 30-40 thousand were Chechens. The rest are Russians, Dagestanis, and representatives of other nationalities inhabiting Chechnya ...
                  According to censuses in the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic in 1989 269130 Russians lived (24,8% of the population), 2010 Russians (24382%) live in 1,9 in the Chechen Republic ...
                  According to official data, from 1 of October 1999 of the year to 23 of December 2002 of the year, the total losses of federal forces (all power structures) in Chechnya amounted to 4572 people killed and 15 549 wounded. However, they do not include losses during the hostilities in Dagestan (August-September 1999 years), which included 280 people killed and 987 wounded ...
                  Losses from Chechen fighters in the statistics of Russian law enforcement agencies, if we summarize the official data, they were destroyed by about 10 thousand people, while the injured by extrapolating this figure are 3-4 times more. In total, their strength was initially estimated at 2000 thousand people last fall (40) of the year.
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 18 January 2014 00: 10
        -2
        Quote: Corsair5912
        Israel responds to terror with even more brutal terror, as is customary among the occupiers, sparing neither women nor children of the Arab population.

        Foul lecimer lies negative
    6. Hug
      Hug 18 January 2014 02: 17
      0
      Let some say that they act too cruelly and uncompromisingly ...


      "cruel and uncompromising" is something other than liberalizing the terrorists in Israel. They cannot be taken alive - all the same, after several years of imprisonment in comfortable cells with restaurant grub, they are released, swear an oath not to return to terrorist activity and move forward with a brisk step towards new terrorist successes.
  2. Stiletto
    Stiletto 17 January 2014 16: 09
    +12
    In order to press terrorists of all stripes to the nail, one can agree to a lot. This is exactly the case when "the end justifies the means."
  3. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 17 January 2014 16: 18
    +3
    Already tired of this fuss with Islamic fundamentalists and terrorists, all these actions to identify demolitionists, etc. are just a fight against the consequences, not the cause, we can identify and destroy a hundred or a thousand demolitionists, but another five thousand will be sent to us, you can block one channel for the supply of weapons, they will open ten more, I know where all this infection comes from, you know, everyone knows, but no one does anything, everyone is waiting for new explosions and new victims, it must be said frankly that countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar , Yemen, the United Arab Emirates are direct sponsors and organizers of world terror, of course there are some over them, but this someone is elusive, clever, cunning and almost omnipotent, and Russia is still too weak to compete with "Mr. X", but to bet on the place of his sixes of desert monkeys Russia is quite capable of.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 17 January 2014 17: 41
      +1
      I am not an Islamist and not their supporter, but they think the same as you: "How tired of these Christians, infidels, with their liberalism, debauchery, drunkenness and actual disbelief in God." It's time to destroy them! Do these words sound like yours?
  4. demotivator
    demotivator 17 January 2014 16: 27
    +3
    Quote: Stiletto
    In order to cling to the nail of terrorists of all stripes, you can agree on a lot.

    I agree that any measures aimed at a REAL fight against terrorist bandits can be welcomed. The experience of Israel shows that all means are good here, intelligence, agents from a gangster environment, bribery and blackmail, liquidation without lengthy proceedings. And you should not listen to the cries of all "fighters for rights" - but do as in Israel:
    If with the help of intelligence information is received that a person is going on a terrorist attack, he is immediately destroyed.
    The order is given virtually without trial, simply on the basis of one hundred percent clear intelligence information that a person goes with a bomb to explode in a shopping center. These so-called pinpoint liquidations, for which Israel is scolded and said that this is a disproportionate use of force, is the main measure in the fight against a terrorist who has already turned to the matter. He is already "zazomblen", he will not stop. It is stopped in this way.
    1. sergey32
      sergey32 17 January 2014 18: 05
      0
      In principle, our legislation does not prohibit destroying a terrorist attack. The criminal code has the concept of extreme necessity. I remember the prosecutor general, it seems Ustinov, when he suggested taking the relatives of terrorists hostage, just because of extreme necessity, when it is necessary to release people held by terrorists.
  5. Yazov
    Yazov 17 January 2014 16: 27
    +6
    I think Israel needs to learn from this topic. And not only to learn, but also to join forces in the fight against terrorism. We have one enemy, if not cool.
  6. Boris63
    Boris63 17 January 2014 16: 27
    +3
    Reconnaissance and extermination of terrorists, lifelong for accomplices - this is the main thing. Listening is still better by court order, otherwise it will be like in the states. Limit Internet insanity. I almost understood the translations, it seems they want to limit simple transfers, not payments (purchases). But then the terrorists organize a kind of online store, and that then - also means insanity.
    Let them THINK.
    1. calocha
      calocha 17 January 2014 17: 43
      0
      Why limit Internet insanity ?! After all, many "Color Revolutions" gathered a crowd through the Internet ... And in general there is a lot of dirt on the Internet! We need to create efficient websites - prompting to get up on our feet as soon as possible in an honest way, and not all nonsense ...
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 January 2014 18: 01
        +1
        Quote: calocha
        why limit internet insanity ?!

        Because insanity

        Quote: calocha
        After all, many "Color Revolutions" gathered the crowd via the Internet ..

        the impression is that before the internet there were no revolutions.
        There Lenin wrote letters to Stalin with milk between the lines. (such cryptography), no one - it never occurred to ban milk

        Quote: calocha
        .Yes and there’s a lot of dirt on the Internet!

        And without the Internet it is not?

        Quote: calocha
        It’s necessary to create effective websites - prompting you to get up on your feet honestly, and not any nonsense ...

        I can give you a couple of links. how to rewind counters. You will allow you to get to your feet faster. laughing
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 17 January 2014 19: 27
        +1
        You can organize a VPN and a line with two who can find out what with absolute SORM.
        And besides this there is a frenet and a direct modem connection.
        It’s easier and more effective to cultivate culture.
        This is more real than an Internet restriction.
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 17 January 2014 20: 15
      +2
      Quote: Boris63
      Reconnaissance and extermination of terrorists, lifelong for accomplices - this is the main thing. .

      Absolutely. 90% of any success in the fight against terrorism is undercover work.
  7. erased
    erased 17 January 2014 16: 32
    +6
    As for the extension of sentences for terrorists and their accomplices - right.
    As for restricting transfers, it will hit ordinary people who conduct their business online.
    Data in social networks - for a long time everything is known that everyone and sundry collect info there, up to hacking pages. Those who need it have long since deleted their accounts.
    But if the fines for criminals of all stripes from pickpockets to terrorists in favor of the injured and injured (and not 10 rubles, but at least half of the property) would be fined legislatively, this would be a severe blow to crime in general. Robbed a passerby, attacked a girl, beat a man - get a fine of thousands of 500-800 wheels. No money - sell housing. Leave a minimum if there is a family, and the rest to the victim. And for 10 years he fell the forest and dig pits ...
    Then many would start thinking whether it would be better to work and not to steal. And so ...
    Our laws are not only written under bandits, but still not executed. That's why they spit on laws and the country all in a row - from migrants and people from the Caucasus to enemies from the outside.
    1. atalef
      atalef 17 January 2014 17: 51
      +5
      Quote: erased
      As for restricting transfers, it will hit ordinary people who conduct their business online.

      Recently caught two Dagestanis at the airport with 650 million. cash in bags.
      To them, these prohibitions are on the drum.
  8. atalef
    atalef 17 January 2014 16: 37
    +8
    I always said. Intelligence and intelligence again. knock everything, the transmission was not so double - about the Shabak investigator - they asked him so. and if the terrorist does not split and refuses to speak. It was necessary to see his puzzled look, after which he answered. There is no such thing, everyone says that it may not be right away but that’s all. There are many methods.
    So it is with recruitment. Everyone is recruited, just work. There is nothing better than an agent having an inside from inside. Niodino strengthening of Mr. and forbidden measures of a general nature will not help. Only intelligence will make it possible to work ahead of the curve. and not react after the attacks.
    1. 222222
      222222 17 January 2014 17: 03
      +3
      atalef (3) IL Today, 16:37 pm "Exploration and reconnaissance."
      Intelligence as one of the means of struggle.
      The task is complex and to solve it comprehensively. From understanding the essence of a particular organization ... to the vigilance of ordinary citizens to everyone in their place ..
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 January 2014 17: 11
        +5
        Quote: 222222
        atalef (3) IL Today, 16:37 pm "Exploration and reconnaissance."
        Intelligence as one of the means of struggle.
        The task is complex and to solve it comprehensively. From understanding the essence of a particular organization ... to the vigilance of ordinary citizens to everyone in their place ..

        Of course hi
  9. Yarik
    Yarik 17 January 2014 16: 44
    +3
    Boris63 Today, 16:27

    ... All the same, wiretapping is better by court order, otherwise it will be like in the states ...


    A wiretap by court order, on the other hand, is a probable leak channel. Terrorists are of a very different level.
  10. RUSS
    RUSS 17 January 2014 16: 45
    +1
    What is most annoying in our legislators, what are waiting for the "first thunder", why are these laws being adopted so late? In order to tighten laws and regulations, carry out inspections and revisions, we are waiting for tragedies, - the plane fell, "Bulgaria" drowned, beat a policeman in the market, knocked down a drunk driver of children, blew up a house, they are recruiting well, etc., you can continue for a long time, the essence is clear ... How many more citizens must die to optimize legislation? As it has already been said hundreds and thousands of times, there is no need to invent a bicycle, look at someone else's legislation polished and time-tested.
    1. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 17 January 2014 17: 20
      +2
      Quote: RUSS
      What is most annoying in our legislators, what are waiting for the "first thunder", why are these laws being adopted so late? In order to tighten laws and regulations, carry out inspections and revisions, we are waiting for tragedies, - the plane fell, "Bulgaria" drowned, beat a policeman in the market, knocked down a drunk driver of children, blew up a house, they are recruiting well, etc., you can continue for a long time, the essence is clear ... How many more citizens must die to optimize legislation? As it has already been said hundreds and thousands of times, there is no need to invent a bicycle, look at someone else's legislation polished and time-tested.


      On the site about half a year ago, there was an article that the FSB was thinking of taking control of the Internet. So there is so much, excuse the poop spilled from the liberoids, it still smells. Although it was precisely about countering terrorism.
      How freedom is everything. So let liberods explode freely by terrorists.
      So normal people suffer. And not those who can only scream about the bloody regime.
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 17 January 2014 19: 34
        +1
        Control the universe ?!
        There are more sensible methods of spending the budget than trying to control the Internet.
        This is not even possible for the Chinese and North Koreans.
        Who will guard the watchmen?
  11. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 17 January 2014 16: 56
    +2
    Everything is true in the article said.
    Undercover intelligence and the elimination of active terrorists (at least spot or with the necessary local operations) will give the necessary result.
    The main thing is to shut off oxygen to all these elements and make it clear that our country will not be able to dictate its will with the help of such methods, but raving about all kinds of world caliphates, etc. crap, knock these stupid ideas out of their heads (you can with brains). These geeks should drive into their brains that an adequate response will follow for every movement in this direction. Moreover, it is possible to expand the geography of action so that those who often stand behind the backs of terrorists know that Russia has long arms and will reach anyone who needs it, in any point of the globe.
  12. treskoed
    treskoed 17 January 2014 16: 56
    +2
    Russian deputies also propose limiting the size of a possible money transfer through electronic payment systems to 1 thousand rubles a day instead of the current 40 thousand.

    Or maybe they will light up on translations? Better to track than to ban. And so there will be a thousand translations of one thousand and all. Here, specialists need to make proposals, not deputies. These are not clock hands to translate or edit ballots for elections!
  13. drop
    drop 17 January 2014 17: 05
    +2
    What society is afraid of wiretapping of mobile and ordinary phones. Special services are required to do this. Previously, there were keywords that the equipment evaluated and, if they were in the conversation, recording it was included. after that the conversation was analyzed by a specialist. Remember we were told not to utter such words. Yes, let them watch. We must live honestly and calmly so that there are no bandits. And the latter should be destroyed and judged promptly. I have the honor.
  14. klim44
    klim44 17 January 2014 17: 06
    +3
    It feels like dear commentators of the chitad this material, but didn’t scream anything, Izralytyanin clearly says in his answers that in his country they are fighting terror with operational, reconnaissance measures. The government and parliament do not restrict the rights of citizens with various kinds of prohibitions, only control . In Russia, the opposite is true - an explosion and a ban at once. Well, they will adopt a new package of laws, you will see in a few months again that the thread will explode. So, what is next? What is banned again?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 17 January 2014 17: 14
      +2
      Quote: klim44
      It feels like dear commentators of the chitad this material, but didn’t scream anything, Izralytyanin clearly says in his answers that in his country they are fighting terror with operational, reconnaissance measures. The government and parliament do not restrict the rights of citizens with various kinds of prohibitions, only control . In Russia, the opposite is true - an explosion and a ban at once. Well, they will adopt a new package of laws, you will see in a few months again that the thread will explode. So, what is next? What is banned again?



      That’s the whole question, now they propose legislatively securing an increase in powers for special services, in which we hope there will be more opportunities in operational intelligence measures.
    2. atalef
      atalef 17 January 2014 17: 16
      +2
      Quote: klim44
      The Izralytyan clearly says in his answers that in his country they are fighting terror with operational, intelligence measures. The Government and Parliament do not restrict the rights of citizens with various kinds of prohibitions, only control

      You are right, the way it is. I feel the fight against terrorism only when they check my bag at the entrance to the super (by the way, recently this has been canceled in many places) and news reports. Everything else passes somehow past my personal life and in no way affects it. Although, of course, at the sight of something suspicious, the machine would call the police. That’s basically it.
  15. Brother77
    Brother77 17 January 2014 17: 23
    +4
    oh guys, you ask a simple opera, which means to prove that he is the same terrorist, and then put heavy ones on him. I’ll think in the look of the return and cracked glass you will find the answer ....
  16. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 17 January 2014 17: 24
    +2
    VIEW: At the same time deputies propose to tighten control over the transfer of information on the web. In particular, individuals and legal entities will be obliged, in the manner prescribed by the government, to notify Roskomnadzor of the commencement of information dissemination and data exchange activities between Internet users.

    The deputies would have better taken control of the openly broadcast media, there is such negative Russophobic and anti-Soviet information that it seems that Hitler won in 1945.
  17. andrei332809
    andrei332809 17 January 2014 17: 31
    +2
    and for some reason not a single human rights activist condemns the girl from Israel for violating the rights and freedoms of citizens, but we have already started screaming about the return of the "bloody gebni" request
    1. individual
      individual 17 January 2014 18: 44
      +1
      And you will take the trouble to "launder" any human rights activist!
      Then it will be seen where the "legs" grow ...
  18. greenk19
    greenk19 17 January 2014 17: 35
    +3
    Israel values ​​and cherishes its citizens. We protect the oligarchs and big officials. All state care is only about them, but for citizens: reforms, fines and restrictions. And so, in Russia, officials are using tragedy to enhance their own security.
  19. individual
    individual 17 January 2014 18: 40
    0
    The people declared war not in words but in terrorist attacks.
    Extraordinary measures must be taken, and words and democratic norms must be set aside for better times.
    Power structures should be effectively controlled by Security Council structures directly subordinate only to the President.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 17 January 2014 21: 29
      -1
      Quote: individ
      Power structures should be effectively controlled by Security Council structures directly subordinate only to the President.

      Well yes, this one will control! laughing No, no nonsense!
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 17 January 2014 21: 29
      0
      Quote: individ
      Power structures should be effectively controlled by Security Council structures directly subordinate only to the President.

      Well yes, this one will control! laughing No, no nonsense!
  20. alone
    alone 17 January 2014 19: 25
    -1
    Israel is one of the leading countries in the world where there is an effective fight against terrorism. The main advantage of Israel is that Israel knows who these terrorists are, where they are, knows the approximate number, and also has clear instructions on how to deal with them. The Mossad and other anti-terrorist units they don’t eat bread for nothing. but now we are moving to Russia.
    no one knows who these terrorists are, how many there are, their location seems foggy, they can appear anywhere and anytime. And there are no instructions how to deal with them.
    and if anyone has a doubt in my words, I will write why I think so
    1) having a beard and walking with a handkerchief on his head does not mean anything. It is known that those terrorist groups that operate in cities don’t keep a beard, they don’t go to mosques.
    2) the approximate number of terrorists is unknown. One speaks of 200 militants, while others speak of several thousand.
    3) The front of action is wide enough and can strike anywhere, and most importantly, strikes are always delivered where they are not expected.
    4) and there is still no specific structure that is responsible for combating terrorism. Both the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and the FSB are involved in this matter. This sometimes interferes with what helps. Mainly in coordinating actions.
  21. konvalval
    konvalval 17 January 2014 20: 20
    0
    No indulgences in the fight against terrorism, despite the cries of all "human rights defenders" and "fighters for human rights." Otherwise, we will face a total and long-term war.
    1. konvalval
      konvalval 17 January 2014 21: 36
      0
      Well, here you have a potential terrorist drew.
  22. Druid
    Druid 17 January 2014 21: 46
    0
    Quote: Corsair5912
    Of the 160 thousands of people killed in Chechnya, 105 thousand people are an unarmed Russian-speaking population, slaughtered by a Chechen beast, and only 15 thousands of soldiers, and of 40 thousands of dead Chechens 35 thousands of armed militants, and only 5 thousands of conditionally civilians, but essentially active accomplices .
    About the Russian-speaking population in Chechnya - and you’ll talk to those Russian-speakers who survived the war there ... Mostly Chechens, Russians and Russian-speaking who had where to go, that is, immigrants from the provinces, and the townspeople as such, died from the cities through the corridors. artillery shells, they had nowhere to go, or sit out in the basements of their houses or go to a clean field in Russia. Find out how Russian-speakers were received in the neighboring Stavropol region, how they were taken to the barracks thoroughly blown through to the Samara Region, and it was in the winter. God is not a fraer, now the Stavropolites themselves quietly flee to neighboring regions.
    So the majority of Russian-speaking people died from the actions of the internal troops, the army and the authorities of the Russian Federation, the Chechen beast could not catch the above, the Chechen thugs distinguished themselves only by atrocities, i.e. quality, not quantity.
  23. Druid
    Druid 17 January 2014 21: 47
    +2
    Quote: greenk19
    Israel values ​​and cherishes its citizens. We protect the oligarchs and big officials. All state care is only about them, but for citizens: reforms, fines and restrictions. And so, in Russia, officials are using tragedy to enhance their own security.
    I accompany my family to Baku, I stand at the airport, the hall is fenced off from the frames and devices at the entrance with light panels advertising airlines, immediately behind which there are rows of seats and dozens of people, the suicidal person does not even need to pass control, it’s enough just to blow himself up while waiting in line for inspection. I’m listening to the announcement, saying that due to the decree of the Ministry of Transport, increased security measures are being introduced for the period from January 7 to March 21, that is, due to the presence of CITIZENS of foreign states in Russia, this is their expendable material, the main thing is that PEOPLE are not killed, but their own, it will be erased and will endure what happens once again. The crew of Channel One arrives at the airport, right there in front of the facade there is a cop in armor, helmet and AKMS, to myself I think they decided to arm the terrorist with this AKMS cop or kill more people that happened.
    Then it is even more fun, having seen off my family, I go by bus myself, since the hunter takes my soba on every trip to the Russian Federation, preferring to hunt with friends, rather than drink her darling. So, I come by taxi to the station, more precisely to the station area, since the entrance is blocked by the traffic police, I unload, to the station at least three hundred meters. With you a raid backpack, three suitcases with household items, and a stroller. Attempts to find a loader or just a trolley were unsuccessful, apparently they are not needed since PEOPLE who will come to the Olympics are unlikely to drop by this station. It's good that there was a dog, left to guard half of the things and with a sin in half, in two steps he dragged everything to the entrance to the station, where he had to stand in line in front of the frame, reached the frame, having enlightened things, talked to the dog handler, piously sure that his dog was mine detective, again in two steps he dragged everything to the landing site, he was already starting to load things into the luggage compartment of the bus, the operator comes running from the inspection, with questions that finally finished me off: "Are you a hunter? Do you have a weapon with you? We have to rewrite the numbers." they say, man, you yourself sat at the installation and stared at the screen, quietly in my ear - "The installation does not work, and the numbers of ROCs and weapons require writing to the journal" ... So, the installation does not work, the raid backpack on which the donkey not one milligram-gram of BB, does not attract the attention of the mongrel given out as mrs. In a word, the fight against terrorism, in Russian, of course.
    1. Kus Imak
      Kus Imak 23 January 2014 01: 32
      -1
      I must tell you that the main function of the guards at the airport is not to prevent a terrorist attack, they will not be able to do this once. And scare off a potential terrorist, make him go to another place. It may not be very beautiful in relation to people in other nests, but what to do. If the terrorist decided to blow himself up, he will do it anyway. The main work to identify a terrorist is operational intelligence. And the guard at the entrance is the last step of the defense and the step is more than symbolic.
  24. s1н7т
    s1н7т 18 January 2014 01: 06
    0
    "In Russian law, terrorism is defined as the ideology of violence and the practice of influencing public consciousness, decision-making by state authorities, local self-government bodies ..." The fight against terrorism is not a fight against crazy "shahids", but with those who are behind ideology. And this is not with us. And in order to neutralize them, "troikas" are not needed, there is no need to eavesdrop on our own citizens, a political decision is needed with respect to countries whose names are known to everyone. Everything else is an empty talking shop for the electorate or, taking advantage of the moment, a quiet stranglehold on the neck of its citizens.
    1. Kus Imak
      Kus Imak 23 January 2014 01: 37
      0
      I’m afraid you will think differently if buses start blowing up in your city every day and you are sitting in the bus in the morning wondering which passenger looks more like a terrorist. Fear is a very powerful argument in the fight against democracy.