Plans to cut armored vehicles of the US Army class MRAP

According to the Defense News newspaper, the US Army is modernizing and will leave in service with 8585 MRAP-class armored vehicles from those currently at its disposal. The remaining 7456 of the American Army's MRAP machines will be written off.

Total US forces (including the Marine Corps and Special Operations Command) from 2006 have acquired more than 25 thousand MRAP class armored vehicles totaling about $ 50 billion.

Of the planned to leave in the US Army 8585 machines MRAP only 2476 machines will be left on the equipment of the linear parts. Another 1073 machine will be used as a training, and the rest 5036 - stored at various bases abroad. At the same time, it is planned to keep only three types of MRAP machines - the 5651 “lightweight” Oshkosh M-ATV machine (from 8700 purchased by the Pentagon from the 2009 of the year), the Navistar MaxxPro Dash 2633 and the MaxxPro 301 machine in the medical version.

It is planned to allocate an additional 1,7 billion dollars for 2014-2016 in the line of financing Overseas Сontingency Operations (OCO) for the repair and modernization of abandoned cars. The work itself will be carried out within three years at two enterprises - the Red River (Texas) army arsenal, where the cost of work will be 150 thousand dollars per car, and in Livorno (Italy), where the cost of work is estimated at 87 thousand dollars per car. At the same time, it is possible that the project financing will be stretched for a longer period. In the 2014 fiscal year, 321 million was allocated for the renovation program of the remaining MRAP vehicles through the CCA, and 2015 million was previously requested for the financial year 306.

The United States has now begun the process of getting rid of most of the 11 thousands of MRAP machines in Afghanistan. The cost of transporting one MRAP machine from Afghanistan to the United States, followed by repairs, is estimated at 250-300 thousand dollars. Therefore, the United States put 4000 “Afghan” MRAP machines on auction for sale to foreign governments in December - the condition is “pickup” buyer of purchased machines from Afghanistan. Several US allies have expressed interest in acquiring this technology, but so far no agreement has been reached. At the same time, some of the MRAP machines are destroyed on the spot with the sale of scrap metal to Afghan contractors. However, the cost of such a "demilitarization" of one MRAP machine is 12 thousand dollars.

Two types of armored MRAP vehicles that the US Army plans to retain in service after the 2016 of the year are the Oshkosh M-ATV (in the foreground) and the Navistar MaxxPro Dash (in the background). The picture was taken on the occasion of the arrival of the first M-ATV vehicles in Afghanistan, 23.10.2009 (c) Elisebet Freeburg / US Army

Comments

[Lord of the Sith]

Something in the first paragraph is not consistent with the second.

[old rocket man]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

Something in the first paragraph is not consistent with the second.

Sorry, I put "+", but jumped out "-"

[sledgehammer102]

Plans to cut armored vehicles of the US Army class MRAP

It’s not pulling the budget of the pants, oh, the states ... although this is also true.

At the same time, part of the MRAP machines is destroyed on the spot with the sale of scrap metal to Afghan contractors. However, the cost of such "demilitarization" of one MRAP machine is 12 thousand dollars.

Here would be Navalny, he would immediately see kickbacks and rospils in this event, and he would be right.

Moreover, why don't they leave these cars to the Afghans? After all, no one buys one fig, and it is expensive to "demilitarize" ... Plus, given who they leave the current Afghan government at the mercy of.

[Rustam]

auction cars MRAP


One could buy a couple of hundred cars:) since the squalor that our people in the Caucasus use cannot be called modern, the price of new crafts of our craftsmen is amazingly amazing.

[bask]

Quote: Rustam

auction cars MRAP

Hi Rustam.

and the remaining 5036 are stored at various bases abroad

Old modifications of MRAP, not one for scrap, do not write off, put on storage-conservation.
New samples of MRAP-2 remain in service, with an INDEPENDENT SUSPENSION, wired at least STANAG Level 3,4.
And also multi-purpose cars ...
In Kazakhstan, there is a lot to stay at the bases, you need to carefully study, export from 10 tons of samples for testing.
MaxxPro D Navistar.

[Rustam]

bask

MaxxPro D Navistar.

MaxxPro D Navistar is one of my favorites - ours would be in Dagestan, Igushetia and Chechnya near Shatoy, but no, we will invent a miracle yudo fish whale

my hope is still warm with only two products:

KAMAZ 63969
KAMAZ 53949

about the Bear and Boomer sadness

Kazakhstan has a lot to stay at the bases, you need to carefully study, take out

Take it out? You don’t laugh at me, yes! Do you remember the captured hammer in Georgia in sand color, have you studied it a lot? in Soviet times, the KGB and the GRU-dug the whole world (even carried out operations to capture samples) in search of ready-made samples, and they extracted technologies both in the military sector and in the civilian sector, regardless of the money spent, and therefore our military-industrial complex lagged behind the West 5-7 years old and now for some positions
real chasm

[bask]

Quote: Rustam

means, and therefore the backlog of our defense industry from the West was 5-7 years - and now for some positions
real chasm

Technologies and samples of secret products are simply necessary for our defense industry (agree).
The VPK company, created together with the Indians, a full-fledged MRAP, but information ... 000 on it.

[Vadivak]

Quote: bask

The VPK company, together with the Indians, created a full-fledged MRApo info ... 000 on it.

So in the photo like Typhoon. Ural-63095

[Rustam]

bask The company VPK, created together with the Indians, a full-fledged MRAP, but info ... 000 on it.

Who said that, but Say hello to him from me and the defense industry workers (horseradish storytellers), the defense industry company has never been involved in the joint development of MRAP with India.

according to the photo -This was someone doing something on the chassis of the Urals (if the photo or the sketch is real, although it resembles a bear)
Could still do similar in the NGO Special equipment. These are what the Feds do.

[bask]

Rustam.
You're right.

Quote: Rustam

Could still do similar in the NGO Special equipment. These are what the Feds do.

This is the Urals ,,, Federal M ,,.
"" "" Federal-M "on the chassis Ural-55571, created by the Institute of Special Equipment. The first sample on the chassis Ural-4320 went for testing in the Interior Ministry troops. A feature of the new truck is a single-volume capsule body. A short armored jacket gives excellent visibility. Convenient original steps are noted. The width of the doors is 8 cm at the end, the thickness of the armor plate is 6 mm. Protection against detonation is either from 3 kg of TNT (in this instance), or from 7 kg (in instance No. 1). "" "Http : //vpk.name/news/102762_bronegruzoviki_federalm_i_ural
vv.html

[old rocket man]

Yes tsifirki somehow do not add up.
As I understand it, the US is not going to donate anything to the Afghan "allies", preferring to spend money on disposal.
Much like "Uncle Sam"

[cth; fyn]

Apparently they want to maintain the pace of industry, they will allocate a loan for the purchase to the Afghans, on the condition that this money will be spent on the purchase of weapons from the United States and this is in the hat.

[Saboteur]

Hamers pass to Afghans. MPAP and MATV are very expensive to maintain. Afghans do not have people who can competently serve them.

[Saboteur]

Hamers pass to Afghans. MPAP and MATV are very expensive to maintain. Afghans do not have people who can competently serve them.

[wanderer_032]

Yes, they simply cannot agree on the price, local dukans are also cunning people.
How many kilos of "gerich" per piece. This is Afghan. East is a delicate matter, as Comrade Sukhov said.

[makarov]

They will give away as always unfit, instead of not spending money on disposal. Afrikonos will be happy and grateful for the opportunity to drive with a breeze through the selva.

[APASUS]

Oshkosh M-ATV (in the foreground) and Navistar MaxxPro Dash (in the background).

I look Americans finally concluded that their Hummer in military performance - shit!

[wanderer_032]

In vain you say so. How multipurpose an army vehicle of high cross-country ability, "Humvee" is very good even today.

There are very few vehicles of this class in our Armed Forces, those "Tigers" that enter the troops are very few, a drop in the ocean.

[bask]

Quote: wanderer_032

There are very few vehicles of this class in our Armed Forces, those "Tigers" that enter the troops are very few, a drop in the ocean.

Purchased in the troops of SMP2,, Tiger M ,, has mine protection)))) 600 gr in heat / light, flat bottom.
And with a blast, 4-6 kg in t / e, those who are sitting in the car will be left alone .....
To prohibit the general purchase in the Ministry of Defense, armored vehicles without, mine protection.

[SV]

To each platoon in the tank (or to each fighter) !!!

[Pimply]

Quote: bask

To prohibit the general purchase in the Ministry of Defense, armored vehicles without, mine protection.

I agree partially. Classic SUVs are also needed, there just have to be different types of cars in one unit.

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

Classic SUVs are also needed, there just have to be different types of cars in one unit.

Just not in the war zone-counter-terrorism operations.
Where there is a threat of detonation on IEDs, mines.
In the United States, it was not in vain that they conducted the JLTV program.
Where HUMVI, replace the armored multipurpose L-ATV. (Most likely OSKOSH).

[Pimply]

Quote: bask

Only not in the war zone-counter-terrorism operations

They are needed there, but in a much more limited amount. Nobody has canceled the work in the field, not everywhere the development and escort. But the application is limited, yes, mainly intelligence activities.

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

yes, mostly intelligence activities.

If intelligence, then open, but with mine protection.
LRPV class cars.
Jacka l 4x4 designed for reconnaissance missions, as well as for special .. operations.
Jakal 2 4x4 Designed with enhanced protection against mines and landmines.
Coyote 6x6, was developed on the basis of the Jackal, but has a 6-wheeled platform, has a large group capacity ..
The Coyote chassis, as well as the Jackal, are well protected from mines.

[Pimply]

The anti-tank reduces passability, as a rule.

[bask]

And with V-shaped bodies, as a rule they survived.
RG-31, the muzzle is torn off, but the armored capsule is not damaged. (In RG-31, only the armored capsule is armored).

[bask]

MRAP Bushmaster, armored capsule armored + MTO.

[kelevra]

I have a friend in the USA, so he says that these machines were supposed to be a replacement for Hamers. Only they turned out to be much worse in quality and even more so with poor booking. It was not a problem to shoot them with an AK from 200 meters. It seems to me that this is all in a hurry. and the desire of someone to make money on a "raw" machine.

[31231]

Well, now you will arouse the anger of fans of MRIPS here. Which they did not fight, but admire. I scratched my turnips, but in fact, yes, from mines there is enhanced protection, but you won’t increase the weight due to rubber wheels. For example, ours are sitting on an armored personnel carrier. The line from Korda (KPVT) saw jumped off. And here it is! Mass grave. About ATGMs and generally nothing to say. But mine protection is overcome simply by increasing explosives and there is not much effort needed. At least bury the bag, at least an anti-tank mine.

[Drosselmeyer]

Yeah, then, according to your logic, it’s necessary to ride armored cars that are not armored in order to jump conveniently. Watch on the Internet how, after a mine explosion, the bodies of soldiers from the roof of an armored personnel carrier fly up.

[31231]

AND? Do you think it’s easier in the MRI?
There are the same videos, only removed from the yutrup, where the Taliban are tearing MPs. One generally funny picture. They blew up the MPI, two others did not even try to save, but simply dumped. Spirits calmly tattered the remains and finished off the invaders.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

AND? Do you think it’s easier in the MRI?
There are the same videos, only removed from the yutrup, where the Taliban are tearing MPs. One generally funny picture. They blew up the MPI, two others did not even try to save, but simply dumped. Spirits calmly tattered the remains and finished off the invaders.

The use of Mrap and new personal protective equipment has reduced the death toll in such incidents by several times.

[31231]

Pimpled, this is where such infa that reduced the losses even at times?
Or are you, like many Jews, where you need to exaggerate for color at times?

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

Pimpled, this is where such infa that reduced the losses even at times?
Or are you, like many Jews, where you need to exaggerate for color at times?

There are quite clear statistics on the use of MPI.

In particular, I recommend that you read the report: Mine-Resistant, Ambush-Protected (MRAP) Vehicles: Background and Issues for Congress.
Reports of this kind are updated regularly enough. There are clear statistics, and statistical reports of this kind from various government and non-governmental organizations - not one or two.

[nerd.su]

Quote: Pimply

Reports of this kind are updated regularly enough. There are clear statistics, and statistical reports of this kind from various government and non-governmental organizations - not one or two.

In the capitalist world, a statistical report, especially open, especially by a non-governmental organization, is a paid argument in a dispute over financing, clean water commerce. Or do NGOs feed on the holy spirit?

[Saboteur]

Statistics rubbed is not difficult to find. Humvee was only good at bullets and debris; the mrap gave them protection from mines. 90% of all losses to Iraq and Afghanistan came from mines and landmines.

[wanderer_032]

according to your logic, it’s necessary to drive armored cars in general

Of course, it’s better, because the review is better and the possibility of evacuation in case of damage (think about the wounded, shell-shocked soldier getting out of the car trying to open an armored heavy vehicle under 300 kg and wasting precious time on it).

Or just jump out, or crawl out to the extreme (without revealing anything and without wasting time on it until you finish it).

A normal car for war looks like this:

And everything else is from the evil one.

[31231]

As part of the column, it scans very much for want of a better one. Bgg.
I don’t argue that MRAP has a higher mine protection, but who told you that the spirit has a problem of laying 50 kg, and not the estimated 4-6 kg?
MRIs are needed in the Caucasus, but I do not consider it necessary to buy imported ones.
And it’s not up to us to decide how effective they are. Only real use will show their effectiveness and the servicemen themselves will decide what is best for them. Above whether to sit on the armor or inside the MDI.

[bask]

wanderer

Quote: wanderer_032

according to your logic, it’s necessary to drive armored cars in general

Quote: The same LYOKHA

With SUCH undermining, the chances of surviving are still small.

When a high-explosive bomb is detonated, 155 mm of a projectile laid on the side of the road. + IED stuffed with striking elements. There are also few chances to survive.
BTR M113

[max702]

And in the rain? And in winter, from -10 onwards? All this equipment is designed for warm countries with hard soil, even in our southern regions there will be forks .. cold, slush, impassable dirt, read what it was in autumn, winter in the same Chechnya, and as history shows, we have to fight mainly in our territory it’s not sad.

[Pimply]

Quote: max702

And in the rain? And in winter, from -10 onwards? All this equipment is designed for warm countries with hard soil, even in our southern regions there will be forks .. cold, slush, impassable dirt, read what it was in autumn, winter in the same Chechnya, and as history shows, we have to fight mainly in our territory it’s not sad.

What makes you think that all this equipment is designed for greenhouse conditions. Tell me, where do you get all this nonsense from?

[wanderer_032]

This problem is solvable.
In winter, overalls can be given to the crew with autonomous electric heating (such are already available for work in the extreme north), and there are all kinds of frostbite face creams and ointments, as well as mask caps.
There are raincoats and costumes from the rain (for example, for tourists, fishermen and hunters in bulk they are sold in all sorts of different kinds).
To cover the tent-car, you can make mask-nets provide.
On the weapon so as not to get dusty and dirty, quick-release covers should be made.

[Pimply]

Quote: wanderer_032

A normal car for war looks like this:

Oh oh And in the course, where and by whom are such machines used?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Pimply

And in the course, where and by whom are such machines used?

Of course, these are mainly reconnaissance and sabotage groups or intelligence of motorized units (formations).

[bask]

Quote: wanderer_032

And everything else is from the evil one.

Why then, the British replace Land Rover Snatch 2(lightly armored jeeps are used for patrolling or special operations).
Multipurpose armored car ... HUSKY.

"" "Jeep was created by Navistar Defense" Husky "is an armored military jeep of the British Armed Forces. The Jeep was specially commissioned by the British Army worth 180 million pounds during the course of the 2003 programs for replacing obsolete equipment (Land Rovers and Pinzgauers). "" ""
http://40cdo-rm.ru/articles/britanskaya-armiya/armored-vehicles/husky/
Husky is used in reconnaissance, patrolling, evacuation of the wounded.

[wanderer_032]

As a peasant, then a monkey (nar.proverb).
Some made others, too, in the image and likeness.

[Same lech]

With SUCH undermining, the chances of surviving are still small.

[Pimply]

Quote: 31231

I scratched my turnips, but in fact, yes, from mines there is enhanced protection, but you won’t increase the weight due to rubber wheels. For example, ours are sitting on an armored personnel carrier. The line from Korda (KPVT) saw jumped off.

You are talking nonsense. Then you have to drive generally in open trucks with a machine gun or cannon.
The task of MRI is to save people from the first blow.

[wanderer_032]

And the task of those who hunt for convoys to disable equipment, people and force fear the rest to drive on the roads.
MRAP does not save from this blow.

[Saboteur]

Your friend never sat in this car and does not know what it is. This car has 1 inch armor for at least all angles. Neither AK nor RMB penetrate this armor

[de bouillon]

Yes, he doesn’t have this friend

typical schizoid of him. here half suffers from it

[Saboteur]

Your friend never sat in this car and does not know what it is. This car has 1 inch armor for at least all angles. Neither AK nor RMB penetrate this armor

[bask]

Quote: Saboteur

on armored cars not armored

The Germans even started to build -use armored cars. (tribute to Anglo-Saxon fashion ????).
Mercedes-Benz G-Wagon 6x6 surveillance reconnaissance vehicles.

[Drosselmeyer]

I wonder why it is in the Caucasus trying to ride on armored vehicles, and not on these miracle wagons?

[wanderer_032]

Yes, because our industry simply does not.

[wanderer_032]

Very nice thing. Thanks for the photo.

[Clueless]

Quote: APASUS

I look Americans finally concluded that their Hummer in military performance - shit!

It’s logical, especially if you look at the arsenal of years for armaments, the Hummers are standing, for such a period any equipment will become obsolete

[APASUS]

Quote: Bad

It’s logical, especially if you look at the arsenal of years for armaments, the Hammers are

Come on you! Look at the first "Humvee" after participating in the Persian Gulf war against Iraq and the last from Afghanistan, heaven and earth. They are constantly upgrading them. The fact is that this car immediately had a mistake - this car is weak to undermine, it eats fuel and the road in service. Well, and as Americans should be, an advertisement made him an invincible car. The main thing is that everyone would believe around

[abdrah]

at the expense of "eating fuel and the road to service" have questions, - consumption is about 17 liters of diesel fuel is it eating? engine resource million miles and extended service intervals are the basic requirements for the development of a hoomer (+ track width equal to the width of the Abrams tank). a few more cars were presented for the tender, but the homer won.

[APASUS]

Quote: abdrah

at the expense of "eating fuel and the road to service" have questions, - consumption is about 17 liters of diesel fuel is it eating? R

Would you even be prepared for an argument.
HMMWV is equipped with three types of engines
Chevrolet V8
Detroit Diesel V8
Detroit Diesel V8
Here you have chosen one at random

Fuel consumption: 16 to 23 liters per 100 km
Tank capacity: 94.63L (25 US gal)

What are 17 liters ???

Quote: abdrah

gauge equal to the width of the tank abrams

That's just for this reason they were so picked up in Mogadishu that the image of the HMMWV was shaken, the first modifications went with shields for the shooter on the roof.
I do not want to argue, I do not see the point.

[abdrah]

“I don’t want to argue, I don’t see the point” - well, how can we sirim to you radiant ones, it might be better to immediately say with the immortal phrase of Father Fyodor - “you fool himself!”, A strong argument by the way.
PS Did you own, or at least drive a car with a V8 engine, or do the knowledge of the American automobile industry end with passages of pedagogy?

[APASUS]

Quote: abdrah

“I don’t want to argue, I don’t see the point” - well, where are we sirens to you radiant, it might be better to immediately say with the immortal phrase of Father Fyodor - “the fool himself!”

I somehow somehow immediately felt the passage of our dialogue in a currentous manner and it turns out I was not mistaken. Sorry, but I won’t go down to insults

[Pimply]

Quote: APASUS

What are 17 liters ???

From 16 to 23, right. As a rule, in practice - 23-25. And is that a lot?

[bask]

Quote: APASUS

and weak to undermine, eats fuel and the road to service

HUMVI armored, after the explosion.

[Pimply]

How much is eating - you know? Sound it.

[wanderer_032]

And we have UAZ, delivers loaves to the army for more than 50 years.
And nothing, not out of date.

[Vasek]

Quote: Bad

It’s logical, especially if you look at the arsenal of years for armaments, the Hummers are standing, for such a period any equipment will become obsolete

And we still have UAZ "inflated" meet.

[alone]

what they are going to type of, they’ll just sell it to their allies. The machines are useful, I think there will be many customers.

[velikoros-xnumx]

acquired more than 25 thousand armored vehicles of the MRAP class for a total of about $ 50 billion.

Fuck $ 2 million per unit is commensurate with the cost of the tank. The last purchase price for the t-90 for our armed forces in 2011 amounted to just over $ 3,5 million.

[roller2]

Quote: velikoros-xnumx

crap $ 2 million per unit

Yeah, only this includes service and a set of spare parts (from which you can assemble a couple more of these machines) and so on. etc. It is only with us when buying a car that we receive ONLY a car, and in them such contracts also include spare parts and after-sales service.

[vomag]

Well, if you consider that in the states themselves tankils cost from 6 to 7.5 cartoons, then the 2nd floor seems to be like "norms" about the samples, then of course you need to "master" the pair you need to skate at the training grounds, shoot at the battlefield and draw up a report and send it to where you need to! they will make corrections and adjustments in time where necessary and our armor will be strong and our tanks ...

[waisson]

they are being cut we are being developed

[wanderer_032]

If you believe this information, then the time of the "liberation" campaigns of the "Great Human National Liberation Army" is coming to an end (the grandmas of the campaign are over, or the Congress does not give them more) .
Machines of the MRAP type have done their "dirty" job and therefore they are partially reduced.
The rest of the trash (possibly in disrepair or with damage, with special equipment removed, of course, so that lovers can pick out something at the storage bases in Kazakhstan, they can only sympathize) will be sold to everyone (at events organized by the type of auto auctions in the USA) . The ability to stave off such junk, Americans do not occupy and we must admit that they are great masters here (maybe that's why there are still no people who want to buy a collection truck for themselves at the price of a spaceship).

The remaining more or less normal "barbukhaikas" will be left in reserve for possible future "cross-liberation" campaigns (when they pay everyone from whom they borrowed, the entire US national debt, or maybe MRAP was left in order not to pay it).

Author +, amused.

[abdrah]

Money in the United States ended for sure. The head of the FRS was a woman (forgive our women) and Ben Bernanke, who evidently sensed that they would soon be beaten, perhaps even kicked him.

[de bouillon]

I don’t see anything ordinary

Why have extra equipment?

I recall the words of some veterans of the Great Patriotic War, as Americans after the war almost immediately cut planes, ships and tanks. Including new equipment. They were not at all sorry. It is expensive to maintain (more precisely, it’s expensive and does not make sense), but there is ready-made scrap metal.

[D_L]

America is the only country that has gone directly from barbarism to decline, bypassing the stage of civilization.))))
Truly America’s business to do things!))))

[Watchman]

Interestingly, what if Iran buys everything in bulk and then forwards to Syria?

[konvalval]

It would be nice if they reduced everything.

[wanderer_032]

Fans of MRAP are dedicated to:

[bask]

Quote: wanderer_032

Fans of MRAP are dedicated to:

wandereron the posted photo.
I understand this is Oshkosh M-ATB.
At this MRAP 2, in TTX, it is laid down, after undermining, THROUGH 5 MINUTES TO BURN.
But the landing and crew remain, as a rule, alive !!!!
RG-31 after undermining (according to the diameter and depth of the funnel, as well as the detached engine 10-15 kg in t / e).
Armored vehicle deployed, an explosion of 180 degrees.
But the armored capsule is not damaged, then the crew is alive !!!
And this is the main thing in BTR-armored car (safe transportation of personnel).

[wanderer_032]

Quote: bask

This MRAP 2, in the technical specifications, is laid, after undermining, THROUGH 5 MINUTES, BURN

Do not share where you got such information.

[wanderer_032]

If it were an ambush, then the soldiers getting out of the car would be shot as if in a shooting gallery.
And where is the security here?

[Saboteur]

This is MATV a not MPAP in the first place, secondly no one says that they are perfect. Over 60kg of explosives and this khan machine. MPAR Can withstand up to 100. Not TNT but artisanal explosives.

[Saboteur]

This is MATV a not MPAP in the first place, secondly no one says that they are perfect. Over 60kg of explosives and this khan machine. MPAR Can withstand up to 100. Not TNT but artisanal explosives.

[de bouillon]

Quote: wanderer_032

Fans of MRAP are dedicated to:

and how do you prove that who died? Do not forget that the loss of the war is, no matter how rude the statistics are. The goal was to reduce the loss statistics from landmine explosions. This they have achieved. Flag in their hands.

The problem is that you still do not understand the meaning of MRAPs, i.e. yours lies in your understanding is not entirely correct. Therefore, for you, the BTR and the BMP are all. But but ..

After all, for example, MRAPs were invented by South African men, and this despite the fact that they had high-quality armored personnel carriers and tanks. Have you ever wondered why?

during the anti-guerrilla war, the yuarians quickly realized that it was very unprofitable to constantly drive infantry into armored vehicles there, both from the technical, combat and monetary side of the issue.

Resource in armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles is much less than that of armored vehicles.

That is why in the American army (and in many other armies), unlike the Russian infantry on armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and tanks, it practically does not move in the conflict zone. Heavy equipment is used only during military operations of various importance.

For example, when NATO entered Kosovo, they entered on tanks, armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. They arrived and settled in the garrisons and that's it. In the future, all movements were only on different types of armored vehicles. The Americans, of course, in their Humvees, the Brits in the Lan-Rovers, the Germans in the Gelengwagens and so on and so forth, and all the heavy equipment went out once a month for a show.

Ours, as they entered Kosovo on the BTR-80, so they constantly moved on them. Even to the local store to the Serbs for cigarettes.

those. BMP and armored personnel carriers in the Russian was everything and everything. The main mode of transport, i.e. he not only theoretically accompanied infantry in battle, but actually was the main and only transport.

Americans almost never send a convoy of infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers on patrol. If only not carried out, some kind of operation. Naturally, the main type of armored vehicle in Iraq and Afghanistan was only "Humvee", then they had improvised armored vehicles on trucks, hung with steel sheets, sandbags and machine guns .. In the likeness of our "superkamazov" and "Urals" in the Caucasus

Naturally, the amer’s equipment was notoriously scattered during the explosions on landmines, and to the horror, the heavier equipment was also not a panacea for the bombings. Well, exactly, as in Chechnya, the situation was repeated in one to one. But their Ministry of Defense did not stupidly look at the pictures and experience of the South Africans, but actually got down to business. As a result, voila. Got what you need.

and now in the Caucasus, where the situation is still not stable, what do we have?

improvised armored cars based on the Urals and KAMAZ, and now UAZs and even gazelles?

Now, of course, attempts are being made to create something like Typhoons there .. but very slowly of course that's all.

[wanderer_032]

What the IED or mine didn’t finish will be completed by the shooter (sniper, machine gunner, grenade launcher) and the whole idea of ​​MRAP (transport means protected from mines and ambush fire) will die out.
When the Africans made their "Buffel", it was dictated by the need to protect the machines from being blown up by anti-personnel mines, which were scattered to hell in their territories.

Against serious professionally placed land mines, even tanks are not protected.
I’ll tell you from the photo of M-ATV. Look carefully at the photo. The whole car completely burned out from the inside (it is possible that together with the crew).
The picture looked something like this: they were blown up by an IED (or a powerful mine, then no one survived), then (or maybe right away) the immobilized car was beaten from RPGs. The soldiers who were selected were finished off with small arms (they were hardly wounded or shell-shocked after the explosion were able to provide a fitting rebuff).
This is a standard tactic for destroying convoys from an ambush. At the same time, I doubt that their colleagues rushed to their aid in unison (according to the instructions, not a single vehicle should stop to provide assistance and cover), but on the contrary, having increased their speed, they left the zone of destruction, leaving those who remained there to their fate. if anyone survived, he will remain crippled for life or be "bearded" in captivity (it would be better if he died at once during the explosion). The people in the photo came to inspect what was left and collect information about the losses to report to their superiors.
By the way, in the photo that you posted you can see that even the mine detector and the "jammer" did not save the ERGESHKU from detonation. And it is clear that this is not an ambush, but simply an IED on the road.
Based on the analysis of such facts, I think that the idea of ​​MRAP has shown its failure.
For escorting and protecting convoys, patrolling the area, multipurpose vehicles of the Tiger type or light jeeps of the UAZ or NIVA type with an open top (with the installation of a power frame) are sufficient to protect the bottom from small IEDs or mines, with armoring of important components and assemblies. This will allow for the normal placement of people, have a good view for observation and firing, as well as the ability to quickly leave in case of damage, as well as it will save weight and make the vehicle lighter and more maneuverable and well armed with excellent sectors of firing.
It is better to equip a soldier with good personal protective equipment (good helmets, armor, etc.), and you can equip detectors and other gadgets against the IEDs and mines.
Something similar our landing forces tried to develop:

[Komsomolets]

wanderer_032 totally agree with you. The idea of ​​MRAP is not something that is not implemented, but such machines are needed for special operations in limited quantities, say for CTOs in the Caucasus.
And about MRAP in Afghanistan, but there was an effect from them, but not so big, you described it above. Allied losses can be safely multiplied by 10 if not more. Americans have always underestimated their losses.
They would have suffered more losses if they hadn’t even climbed out of their bases throughout the war.

[Saboteur]

Tell me, dear, when did the Americans underestimate losses? If possible with the facts. MPAR appeared in Iraq and then in Afghanistan. Loss of personnel was reduced 10 times after their appearance. And secondly, you are apparently special in Afghanistan, where did you get this infa that the Americans do not leave the bases? So it follows your logic that they lost 20,000 soldiers there?

[Saboteur]

Tell me, dear, when did the Americans underestimate losses? If possible with the facts. MPAR appeared in Iraq and then in Afghanistan. Loss of personnel was reduced 10 times after their appearance. And secondly, you are apparently special in Afghanistan, where did you get this infa that the Americans do not leave the bases? So it follows your logic that they lost 20,000 soldiers there?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Komsomolets

such machines are needed for special operations in limited quantities, say for CTOs in the Caucasus

What for?
Come and "scare" the local bearded men with their menacing appearance?
But as practice has shown, this does not frighten them, but on the contrary, causes an unhealthy reaction and interest in how to fill this car.
And as a result, they simply change their tactics of action.
Relatively little explosives used to be planted, now more.
And they began to take more shots for RPGs.
And everything remains the same.

[bask]

Quote: wanderer_032

Based on the analysis of such facts, I think that the idea of ​​MRAP has shown its failure.

wandererbut you made fun of HOWEVER.
Where did such strange CONCLUSIONS come from ?????
Can you throw the link ????
The number of losses among the yankers and NATO, after and before the use of the MCI, decreased significantly.
Now all armored vehicles, modernizing or new without fail, have mine protection.
Having spent billions of $$$$$, the Yankers built about 50 MREPs (are they fools to throw bobs into the wind ???).
What, what, and they know how to count grandmas !!!!

One of the best multi-purpose armored cars in the world ... Bushmaster (we would have one).

[wanderer_032]

What the IED or mine didn’t finish will be completed by the shooter (sniper, machine gunner, grenade launcher) and the whole idea of ​​MRAP (transport means protected from mines and ambush fire) will die out.

This is an axiom of ambushes. And the chance of surviving an ambush is 1 out of 100, even in an MRAP-type car. The main goal of laying mines or IEDs on roads is not tactics of total destruction of the entire convoy, but psychological pressure on an enemy soldier (to plant animal fear in their head , make them afraid of everything and everything, bring them to complete paranoia so that when traveling to the territory outside the base they would shake with fear even in their MRAPs and remember who is the owner of the territory). The enemy responds to the appearance of the MRI technique (or other armored vehicles) by changing their tactics of action, such as:
1. Strengthening the collection of information about travel routes and goals, in connection with which this or that column is formed and advanced (there is always a black sheep that can drain the necessary info for money or being compromised on something).
2. Searching for the most suitable conditions (places on routes) for organizing an ambush or laying mines, land mines or IEDs (there is always the right place, time and circumstances for striking).
3. By increasing the number of charges of landmines, land mines or IEDs. Organizing competently selected firing positions for an ambush and escape routes after the operation.

The tactical advantage in surprise is always on the side of those who are in ambush and the pace of the battle is set by this side.
Thus, even if you form all the transport of your group from machines designed according to the MPI technology, you still cannot guarantee even 50% security in moving your cargo and personnel.The MPI vehicles have large dimensions and weight (which reduces their cross-country ability and maneuverability, what increases their vulnerability to RPG fire, for example), they are also more expensive to operate and repair than conventional army vehicles, therefore, economically the side that uses the MPI technique (spending a lot of money on their development and production, and with the minimum of that as the practice result) bears heavy losses from the war (which was confirmed on the example of the USA). And the side that uses the tactics of guerrilla (mine) war achieves maximum effect with minimal effort, and it is better to fight such an enemy with other methods and, for example, MDI is not a panacea for this.
Yes, I see in the comments that many are big supporters of such equipment, such as let's mass-produce and equip our aircraft with such equipment, the question is, why is it needed there massively?

[Drosselmeyer]

wanderer_032, of course I understand everything, BUT with such phenomenal abilities to determine reality from a photograph you need to star in a TNT show ...
As for the technique for the landing, which in the photo, in my opinion, there is nothing to be proud of, variations on the theme of the airborne "jeep" have been around since the forties of the 20th century.

[Nayhas]

There is a misunderstanding of the role of MRAP, it is not an armored personnel carrier or an infantry fighting vehicle, it is an evolution of a conventional truck, and it is necessary to compare it with ordinary cars that use the world's armies to transport troops and provide them with goods. In peacetime, it is possible to carry out the transportation of troops during exercises and in everyday activities using ordinary transport, MRAP is unnecessarily expensive and this is why the USA writes them off, because there is no need for them yet. There will be a need, the US industry in a short time will stick as much as necessary, moreover, taking into account technological progress, i.e. better than they were.

[Bradley]

And what do you want? On this site, in some kind of article, MRAP was seriously compared with BMP-3 ...

[sapran]

The desire to compare diverse technology is in the blood of local residents.
... the main thing is that there would be a reason (l / s shove - fiddling means and we will compare) and the rest is no longer interesting ... Therefore, reading some comments, the bitch takes!
About the loss of allies in Afghanistan - generally fun experts Mlyn. Thank God the second officer from the rotation returned home so reading your crazy thoughts is no longer even funny.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: sapran

Thank god the second officer returned from rotation

Returned by whom?
Unbalanced mentally, shell-shocked, with shrapnel and bullet holes in the body of a person who, with the slightest suspicious rustling or suspicious movement, arms reach out to arms?
And instead of normal dreams, is either blackness or an echo of war with screams and blows against the wall?
And with thoughts rolling from time to time, put a bullet in your head because you can’t forget all this.
Awesome happy life.