Military Review

Mistral blew off the Cossack

110
Mistral blew off the CossackMistral in France is called the cold north-westerly wind that blows from the Cévennes Mountains to the Mediterranean coast and damages crops.


Independent Military Review has repeatedly written about the negative consequences of the acquisition of the Mistral landing helicopter landing ships-docks (DVKD) for the Russian Navy. It would seem that when the first corps for the Russian fleet launched, and the construction of the second is underway in Saint-Nazar and St. Petersburg, the topic has been exhausted. Indeed, at this stage, it is simply impossible to stop the implementation of the transaction at 1,2 billion euros. Meanwhile, the French Mistral continues to present more and more surprises. And unpleasant.

When the deal was concluded, high-ranking officials of the Ministry of Defense and the Government of the Russian Federation argued that the French DVKD would be equipped with helicopters, weapons, and landing craft of Russian production. But it was not so. Recently, representatives of the French company DCNS reported that Russian Mistrals will receive French landing craft (DKA) of types EDA-R (L-CAT) and CTM. Officials from the Russian Ministry of Defense, who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed this information.

CONSTRUCTORS ARE EXPOSED, AND A FIRM ARE AVAILABLE

Actually, this news first a year ago, the Russian ambassador to France, Alexander Orlov, voiced it. “We will buy small ships from France, which are inside the helicopter carrier, catamarans for disembarking forces on the ground,” he told reporters last November. Mr. Orlov is supposed to keep abreast of various bilateral ties. But why such close attention to the MTC deal? Or is it a demonstration of personal involvement?

Previously it was assumed that the Russian “Mistrali” for disembarking vehicles and personnel on the unequipped coast would receive high-speed amphibious assault boats on the air cavity of the 11770 “Serna” and 21280 “Dugong” projects developed by the R.E. Hydrofoil Central Design Bureau. Alekseeva (Central Clinical Hospital for SEC). These boats are serially built at Russian shipyards and fit well into the dimensions of the French DVKD docking chamber. It was also possible that helicopter carriers deployed modernized air-cushion amphibious assault boats of the Murena project developed by the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau. Airborne boats of the 12061 "Shark" project developed by Vympel Design Bureau are also suitable for DVKD. They, too, have long been mastered by the domestic industry.

But even this seemed to our sailors a little. In addition, they asked the designers of the Nizhny Novgorod Ship (ZNT) plant to create a project for a completely new landing boat. And those, even without a contract in their hands, enthusiastically got down to business. So the project 02320 "Cossack" appeared. The length of this DKA is 27,75 m, the width is 7,2 m. The boat carries two to the landing site tank T-90 or two BTR-80 armored personnel carriers with a speed of 11 knots. It is possible to transfer 50 Marines plus one tank or armored personnel carrier. For self-defense and fire support of the landing, the boat carries one 12,7 mm Kord or Utes machine gun, two 30 mm AG-17A automatic grenade launchers (machine gun and grenade launchers are located in remotely controlled installations), two DP-64 anti-sabotage grenade launchers and four Igla MANPADS. Thanks to the widespread introduction of automation tools, the Cossack crew consists of only four people.

Since the boat was designed specifically for the "Mistral", then in its docking chamber can accommodate four such DFA. When the project was ready, the Navy unexpectedly refused it, and not bound by any contractual obligations, of course, paid nothing for the work done. In fairness, we note that the Navy still placed an order for the 16 construction of offshore boats of the 23040 project for XNUMX on ZNT, but they, however, have nothing to do with the Cossacks and the Mistrals.

MEDITERRANEAN THING

What is proposed to be placed on Russian "Mistral" instead of Russian DKA? First of all they call high-speed amphibious catamarans EDA-R. They have an original design. The sides of the boat play the role of outriggers (kind of floats), between which the bottom can be moved up and down. When fully loaded, the bottom is omitted, and DFA with a length of 30 m, a width of 12,8 m and a displacement of 285 t is able to transport two main tanks or several armored personnel carriers with a speed of 15 nodes. But with the empty and with the bottom lifted, the boat becomes a catamaran and rushes with an 30-node speed.

The French Navy, in spite of the energetic advertising campaign undertaken by the developer of DCA Constructions industrielles de la Mediterranee (CNIM), initially showed no interest in this project. The Gamelin Shipyard shipyard in Saint-Malo on the Mediterranean coast of France, which built the EDA-R prototype, went bankrupt. It was bought by another shipbuilding company, Socarenam, but on condition that the government places an order for serial production of EDA-R type boats. In order to support military shipbuilding, the republic’s authorities took this step.

The contract worth 125 million euros was signed in June 2009 of the year. It provided for the construction and maintenance of four DFAs. There was an option for four more buildings, but due to the difficult economic situation in the country, it is now postponed indefinitely.

The French wanted to interest Americans on EDA-R boats by demonstrating a novelty to overseas partners on the Bold Alligator 2012 exercises. They applauded politely, but did not take any reciprocal steps. Firstly, because the US Navy is well known for such a design. For the development of the Expeditionary Craft (E-Craft) concept, the naval development (ONR) of the United States Navy in 2006 ordered an EDA-R-like ship called Susitna, not for the fleet, but for a civilian company carrying out ferry service in Alaska. Apparently, this vessel with a displacement of about 900 t with a small area of ​​the waterline and adjustable cargo deck-bottom did not fully meet expectations, since no other orders followed. Secondly, the US Navy has a significant number of high-speed airborne amphibious assault boats LCAC, which by their characteristics are superior to EDA-R. And in the foreseeable future, even more advanced SSC-type WPCs will replace LCAC.

Of course, the French boat is of interest. But it is designed for operation in the warm waters of the Mediterranean. When used in the winter conditions of the Far East, it will, at the very first attempt to reach the coast with an ice fast ice or with a sludge, fail, most likely forever. In addition, French EDA-R is very expensive. Each unit, it is easy to calculate, costs 31,25 million euros, which is more than twice the cost of the head KVP "Murena-E" for South Korea. At the same time, the Russian “Moray” has a higher speed, no less carrying capacity, and runs easily on ice and in a sludge.

The decision to purchase EDA-R type boats can pursue only one goal - supporting French shipbuilding at the expense of Russian taxpayers. The option for four units, promised by Paris to the firm Socarenam, will be realized at the expense of our pocket. Indeed, without this order, the shipyard in Saint-Malo will close. This fully applies to other type of boats - CTM, which will be built at the STX Lorient shipyard in Lorient, which also suffers from underutilization of production capacity.

For some reason, these DCA in our media are called speed. This is a misconception because they develop the maximum speed of the entire node in the 9,5. Amphibious gunboats of this family began to be built in the USA in 1942 year. Since then, over 10 000 units have been released. DKA CTM is a licensed version of American boats of LCM modification, which are inferior in all respects to Nizhny Novgorod "Cossack". It is not excluded that the United States, which is negatively related to the Russian-French transaction on the “Mistrals”, at the last moment may impose a veto on the export of products of the American development.

FOR ONE RUSSIAN THREE FRENCHS ARE GIVEN

Another not very pleasant news related to the Russian “Mistrals” was recently also announced in Paris. According to representatives of the French military-industrial complex, “when signing the contract for the first two helicopter carriers, it was stipulated that all the ship’s technologies, which the Russian side insisted on handing over, would be transferred with a guarantee on the order of the third and fourth Mistral. Recall that before signing the 17 contract on June 2011, then-Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and other Russian dignitaries swore that all the technologies associated with these DVKDs, including the SENIT-9 combat information management system and the SIC-21 command and control system transferred to the Russian Federation. Now, it turns out, you need to perform a "guarantee", that is, to order two more cases. From all this it follows that high-ranking Russian leaders were deceiving their citizens and that in France they consider Russia a banana republic that can be easily blackmailed. It is understandable. The shipyard of STX France in Saint-Nazare without participation in the construction of the third and fourth ship for the Russian Navy will simply burn.

And, finally, another “surprise” from the “Mistrals”, which can shed light on the violent lobbying activities of Russian officials in favor of the French DCCD. At the end of September of this year, the next edition of the authoritative American reference book, World Military Fleets, was published. It indicates that for the French Navy the average cost of each Mistral-type ship was about 236 million. This is very similar to the truth. French politicians did not prevaricate when they urged their NATO partners, who were dissatisfied with the deal between Paris and Moscow, that the Mistras were only passenger ferries destined for transporting troops and helicopters. French DVKD really built according to civil standards. And the cost of civilian ships rarely exceeds 100 million dollars. A greater proportion of the price of helicopter-assault carriers falls on their electronics.

Russia, as everybody knows, costs every ship in 600 million euros. For clarity, we will recalculate 236 million dollars and 600 million euros for rubles at the exchange rate for the end of November. And this is what we get: one Mistral of the French Navy "weighs" nearly 8 billion rubles, and the Russian Navy more than 27 billion rubles. The difference is more than three times. And she somehow sawed. That is why the Accounts Chamber and the Investigative Committee, it seems, it’s time to do this “arithmetic”.
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  1. AVV
    AVV 14 December 2013 13: 20 New
    54
    Yes, it was immediately clear that not everything is clean, and this again is a direct cut of the budget, Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!
    1. A.YARY
      A.YARY 15 December 2013 09: 22 New
      +5
      AVV
      It was clear from the very beginning that the cut was great!
      The difference is more than three times. And she is somehow sawing. That is why it seems to the Accounts Chamber and the Investigative Committee to take up this “arithmetic”.

      But who will give them something to do? Have you forgotten about SirDuke?
      1. Theophanes
        Theophanes 15 December 2013 17: 39 New
        0
        Serdyukovschina is in the juice itself !!! In the color of spring, I drank dough, help all the enemies of Russia !!! Ah yes Dimonchik, oh yes liberals !!!
        1. Heccrbq.3
          Heccrbq.3 15 December 2013 21: 25 New
          0
          REMEMBER there is no iPhone and liberals and there are no widows and reformers; there is a cut of the dough and its removal abroad (plus gas, oil, nickel, gold, luminium), etc.). Dimochka is the chair keeper, that's all.
        2. Walker1975
          Walker1975 16 December 2013 00: 58 New
          0
          Ah yes Putin, oh yes Medvedev, oh yes Serdyukov ... kgbshno-gangster seed ... And what can the Russians: just shake the forum! At least 3 billion will go from the budget of the Russian Federation, at least 10 billion for each
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 15 December 2013 09: 39 New
      19
      Yes, it’s not SERDYUKOV, rather, DIMON had a hand in private conversations with the main plunge pool of the French SARKOSI.

      I don’t understand why PUTIN approved this deal (it seems like he doesn’t understand that the French will warm their hands well on this deal)
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 15 December 2013 10: 15 New
        +8
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I don’t understand why PUTIN approved this deal (it seems like he doesn’t understand that the French will warm their hands well on this deal)


        Really incomprehensible. Can the loyalty of the Gallic petushars buy this way? Duc NO! We have seen this very loyalty of the Gallic cockerel on the Syrian question! In the coffin would see such loyalty more often!
        1. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 15 December 2013 10: 58 New
          11
          Quote: Hudo
          Really incomprehensible. Can the loyalty of the Gallic petushars buy this way? Duc NO! We have seen this very loyalty of the Gallic cockerel on the Syrian question! In the coffin would see such loyalty more often!


          Most likely, the agreements were between DAMOM and Sarkozy, he probably was sure that he would go further, and then the bummer ...
          In general, all this purchase of IVECO and Mistral is a very muddy story, in which there were most likely a lot of kickbacks and some agreements about which we do not know.

          Another question is that the article looks like another chernoshka about the government, the ministry of defense, etc.

          Particularly annoying is the lack of references to the primary sources of facts presented there; I won’t be surprised that this will turn out to be another CLOSED source in the Moscow Region, as this phrase speaks of.

          Officials from the Russian Ministry of Defense, wishing to remain anonymous, confirmed this information.


          In such a situation, it is very convenient to deliberately lie and escalate the situation, and if suddenly a lie is revealed, then you can always say, "Our closed source deceived us and we are not to blame, but who we will not tell you, because it is closed."
          1. Basil123
            Basil123 15 December 2013 15: 01 New
            +1
            I completely agree, and even here the article does not say anything about the cost of technology as such
      2. alex86
        alex86 15 December 2013 10: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        why Putin approved this deal

        Yes, for the same reason why Serdyukov concluded it - money is never superfluous to anyone.
        1. alone
          alone 15 December 2013 11: 02 New
          +5
          after reading the article I understood only one thing. The technology will be transferred only after ordering the buildings of the third and fourth buildings. We didn’t play the comedy badly. Only one thing remains: to find out how much money was sawn in this scam.
          1. ramzes1776
            ramzes1776 15 December 2013 18: 22 New
            +4
            Quote: lonely
            after reading the article I understood only one thing. The technology will be transferred only after ordering the buildings of the third and fourth buildings. They did not play the comedy badly.

            It turns out they bought two troughs without electronic filling for 600 million euros each. If 20 trillion. Since they will spend on defense, then nothing good will come of it and the defense capability of our state will be at the same level.
            1. alone
              alone 15 December 2013 19: 08 New
              0
              in fact, where I read that, out of these 20 trl. a certain amount has already been spent, but I don’t know what the result is. and most importantly, these ships do not have effective protection against sea and air attacks and must act with a support group. such groups remains a mystery, given the fact that when they collected the squadron for the Mediterranean, it was necessary to collect from all fleets all that is more or less combat-ready.
      3. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 15 December 2013 11: 35 New
        10
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I don’t understand why PUTIN approved this deal (

        Because Putin and Medvedev are one team, why is it not clear? - "tandem with real results" - remember the slogan? angry
        How much longer can you procrastinate the story of the evil and good cop? I am surprised that not everyone understands?
      4. Walking
        Walking 15 December 2013 13: 28 New
        +4
        Quote: The same Lech

        I don’t understand why PUTIN approved this deal (it seems like he doesn’t understand that the French will warm their hands well on this deal)


        The history of our rulers does not teach anything.
        1. Black
          Black 15 December 2013 14: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: Hiking
          The history of our rulers does not teach anything.


          And what, someone can remember when "our rulers" would have grabbed it for their miscalculations?
          Yes, and this is hardly a miscalculation, on the contrary, apparently it was very well calculated ...
          As our foreman said: "... or we don't know something ...".
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 15 December 2013 17: 09 New
            13
            Quote: Chen
            As our foreman said: "... or we don't know something ...".
    3. Fin
      Fin 15 December 2013 11: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: AVV
      Yes, it was immediately clear that not everything is clean, and this is again a direct cut of the budget,

      This was a clear cut, but the main thing, in my opinion, is Sarkozy’s payment for loyalty in the war of 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    4. Siberian German
      Siberian German 15 December 2013 12: 40 New
      +5
      yes, you my friend - it's just negligence
    5. knn54
      knn54 15 December 2013 13: 22 New
      +3
      -AVV: Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!
      And the Deputy Commander of the Russian Navy, Vice Admiral Nikolai Borisov, ALSO.
      1. Siberian German
        Siberian German 15 December 2013 19: 16 New
        0
        you tell me about it - remind me so cleanly
    6. Artyom
      Artyom 15 December 2013 14: 16 New
      +3
      "Who will put him in prison? He's a MONUMENT" While those in the Kremlin are sitting about whom in a decent society they do not speak out loud, they will not touch him! and arguments about execution and hard labor, this is just a shaking of air and nothing more (sadly). Even at the beginning of the scandal with Serdyukov, I predicted that he would have two ways - either they would shoot him, or nothing terrible would happen to him. Everything follows the second path!
    7. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 15 December 2013 17: 02 New
      +8
      Quote: AVV
      Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!
    8. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 15 December 2013 17: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: AVV
      Yes, it was immediately clear that not everything is clean, and this again is a direct cut of the budget, Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!


      How zadolbali these whiners. Everything is already. The fence has sailed away. Where were you all when the contract was signed ???
      1. alone
        alone 15 December 2013 19: 10 New
        0
        Quote: Geisenberg

        How zadolbali these whiners. Everything is already. The fence has sailed away. Where were you all when the contract was signed ???


        We discussed at VO another article about reform in the army)) where else could they be laughing
    9. mvg
      mvg 15 December 2013 18: 23 New
      0
      it is significant to build the process and shoot .. and the nearest assistants for "life"
    10. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 18: 58 New
      10
      Quote: AVV
      Yes, it was immediately clear that not everything is clean, and this again is a direct cut of the budget, Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!

      Twenty five again. The trolls were burned in Ukraine, now again they are trying to recoup on the Mistral.
      The article is another vyser. Put a minus. The article is reprinted from the "independent newspaper". There is no logic whatsoever, only acrimonious criticism of one's own assumptions.
      Who said what boats will be on the Mistral? Does anyone have any information? Where are the facts? There is no final decision yet.
      Secondly, Russia will have its first helicopter carrier headquarters next year. We should rejoice at this, our enemies are afraid of this. speculation about who and how much is building in the past. Now there is an incentive for our companies to start "competing".
      Third, the cost of a ship - "the cost of civilian ships rarely exceeds $ 100 million." What is this idiotic reasoning and arguments? The liberal trolls are completely crazy, they are talking some completely outright nonsense. Comparing thin to heavy ...
      The cost of 2 ships is 1,2 billion euros, which is about 750 million dollars per ship. Provided that you are also given the technology. Given that the United States is building for themselves similar ships for 1,08 billion. Moreover, it’s not a headquarters ship or a helicopter carrier, but simply a transport ship with comparable characteristics. A Japanese helicopter carrier of the same level costs 1,3 billion apiece. And again there is not a word about technology. Only the ships themselves.
      How much are Russian corvettes? 560 million dollars apiece? So this corvette is not at all commensurate in dimension with a helicopter carrier.
      The price is more than reasonable. It even seems to me more, Russia made the deal in "very difficult times" for the French shipbuilding industry. That is why the French agreed to a number of Russian conditions. And this should be considered a victory, not a loss, as various trolls expose.
      The question of whether our own could be built on time remained unanswered. Then they could not, today we hope that they can. Could the aircraft carrier finish building for India. So it’s better to earn $ 2,3 billion on completion than helicopter carriers € 1,2 billion.
      In addition, 20% of the first and 40% of the second are being built in Russia. So 30% of the whole deal went to our shipbuilders anyway.

      So you should not be fooled by the provocateurs' highs, it is better to figure out what is happening yourself.

      ps By the way, Europe has stopped preparing for the signing of an association agreement with Ukraine. So now the pack of trolls will begin to crap wherever it can, so the first one has already been noted.
      1. Cherdak
        Cherdak 15 December 2013 21: 01 New
        +2
        Tolkovo hi

        It is pleasant to honor a thinking person.
        A very curious infa at http://slavikap.livejournal.com/4920718.html "How to build a UDC Vladivostok of the Mistral type"
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 21: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: Cherdak
          A very curious infa at http://slavikap.livejournal.com/4920718.html "How to build a UDC Vladivostok of the Mistral type"

          Thanks for the link. The ship is really handsome. One of the most modern in the world. I am glad that with us he will appear literally in a year. The only thing is not entirely clear, are the French building the landing boats or is the final decision not yet made?
          1. Cherdak
            Cherdak 16 December 2013 13: 31 New
            0
            I think that they will decide to take full-time French. And it is more reasonable and possible to check in long-term operation - here is the description http://farm.vtc.vn/media/vtcnews/2010/09/22/ngamuavukhi2.jpg

            Also beautiful photos http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-547.html
        2. Ramadan
          Ramadan 15 December 2013 22: 44 New
          0
          "Sensible" - are you talking about the Mistral or about the universal landing ship "Juan Carlos I"? ;)
      2. Ramadan
        Ramadan 15 December 2013 22: 47 New
        0
        Well done, I agree with every word)
      3. aksakal
        aksakal 15 December 2013 22: 50 New
        +2
        Mlyn, Capercaillie, your sensible post gained only three pluses, and the post, or rather, what Yarosvet singled out from himself, which does not carry any useful meaning, gained almost three times more. And it's hard to say why? Either the members of the forum are pleased to kick their president uselessly, or the members of the forum do not know much about anything, and they think the spitting of yarosvet towards Putin is more patriotic than your post with sound doubts as a SABZh, or because the contingent on this site is gradually changing towards the more liberal-minded Russians, that is, the site is simply quietly "turning yellow". Anyway, I definitely don't like it.
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 23: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          Mlyn, Capercaillie, your sensible post gained only three pluses, and the post, or rather, what Yarosvet singled out from himself, which does not carry any useful meaning, gained almost three times more. And it's hard to say why? Either the members of the forum are pleased to kick their president uselessly, or the members of the forum do not know much about anything, and they think the spitting of yarosvet towards Putin is more patriotic than your post with sound doubts as a SABZh, or because the contingent on this site is gradually changing towards the more liberal-minded Russians, that is, the site is simply quietly "turning yellow". Anyway, I definitely don't like it.

          I agree with your conclusions. it is this tendency that worries me. I'm not worried about our army and navy, there are professionals there. But our audience is getting stupid. Although I have vague doubts that this is all the work of a "handful" of provocateurs. You understand that these pros and cons do not carry anything in themselves, if you set yourself a goal and organize a thinking mass, then you can go to any quantitative indicators. But the essence will not change from this. And the fact that the flood is gaining more pluses, so they themselves plus, and minus all those who disagree. So every remaining plus speaks of the victory of the mind of the "majority".
    11. avdkrd
      avdkrd 15 December 2013 19: 53 New
      -1
      Besides Serdyukov, there is one more "forest" character in Russian fairy tales. Medvedd put a lot of effort into promoting this contract and promoting it. So the tower is crying not only for Serdyukov.
    12. poquello
      poquello 15 December 2013 21: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: AVV
      Yes, it was immediately clear that not everything is clean, and this again is a direct cut of the budget, Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!

      I have already said that everyone is fixated on Serdyukov, and there these "Serdyukovs" are like filth.
    13. Nick
      Nick 15 December 2013 22: 50 New
      0
      Quote: AVV
      Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!

      And confiscation ...
    14. irongun
      irongun 16 December 2013 00: 24 New
      -1
      Quote: AVV
      Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!

      Of course, I am a Belarusian landlord, I know that the navy is an expensive thing. But the numbers lead to a stupor. Here you are rinsing Serdyukov, and he that, "on a cloud in the rolling thunder" from a furniture warehouse arrived "to the farm" on his own? That the chief KGB officer of Russia does not know the amount of the largest contracts? Haven't done an independent 30-minute purchase review? Don't tell my slippers! Your, so-called The "Supreme" simply gave carte blanche to his fellow drinking companions in the St. Petersburg office to plunder Russia. And you, taking the ostrich position, are simply afraid to admit it!
    15. kelevra
      kelevra 16 December 2013 01: 15 New
      -1
      Serdyukov, it seemed he was a mishandled agent! He’s a manager by training! If he’s a tower, then Medvedev’s also at the stake, because he has been promoting and protecting him until now! But since they are being kept, they are waiting for a certain moment. But it would be nice see the public execution of Serdyukov!
  2. LOCKS
    LOCKS 14 December 2013 21: 01 New
    +8
    Indeed, how many people have so many opinions. Yesterday there was just an article that not everything is so scary http://warfiles.ru/show-44332-naskolko-mistral-yavlyaetsya-francuzskim.html, today again "CARAUL are robbing their homeland." It's time to treat this as a fait accompli and stop sprinkling ashes on your head.
    1. dmitrich
      dmitrich 15 December 2013 08: 26 New
      +3
      I don’t really believe it, another chernushka.
      1. ytqnhfk
        ytqnhfk 15 December 2013 13: 25 New
        +5
        Well, where did this magazine get the secret information from the agreement, who will tell me where ??? ??? !!!! What was it in? The amount of the agreement was stipulated, it’s true, but the rest was not really mentioned, I can write a lot of things too !!
  3. starhina01
    starhina01 15 December 2013 01: 37 New
    0
    we urgently need to turn our head on to steer more competently from this situation, or not because of all sorts of troubles these Mistrals will drag us in for a long time and persistently sucking out the loot. P.S. I am amazed at our benefactors who manage to stick a bone in the throat under a good look hi
  4. Koronik
    Koronik 15 December 2013 06: 25 New
    +3
    “As you know, each ship for Russia costs 600 million euros. For greater clarity, let's recalculate 236 million dollars and 600 million euros for rubles at the rate at the end of November. And this is what we get: one Mistral of the French Navy“ weighs ”without small 8 billion rubles, and the Russian Navy - more than 27 billion rubles. The difference is more than three times. And it is somehow sawed. That is why the Accounts Chamber and the Investigative Committee, it seems, is time to do this "arithmetic"
    I would like to know who made this deal? And who should be responsible for this, of course, there can’t be any talk of breaking the contract, but the conditions can be revised. For this, it is necessary for specialists to carefully check the projects and something is sure to be found.
    1. Dimy4
      Dimy4 15 December 2013 09: 47 New
      +4
      Like who? The most innocent Minister of Defense with comrades. Without his reliable carpentry, it’s unlikely that even the pens for signing were charged with ink.
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 15 December 2013 13: 32 New
        +1
        Such transactions are not concluded without the knowledge of the first persons of the state. I think that many transactions in the recent history of Russia were made in exchange for signatures on accession to the WTO.
  5. Koronik
    Koronik 15 December 2013 06: 31 New
    +5
    "The purchase price of two ships under the" Russian contract "was 1,2 billion euros, which corresponds to the cost of one amphibious transport dock of the" San Antonio "type (USA). Impressive."
    Yes, our journalists can make a fool of our compatriots, two articles and two different opposing opinions, and everything is based on facts and calculations. And whom to believe?
    1. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 21: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: Koronik
      "The purchase price of two ships under the" Russian contract "was 1,2 billion euros, which corresponds to the cost of one amphibious transport dock of the" San Antonio "type (USA). Impressive."
      Yes, our journalists can make a fool of our compatriots, two articles and two different opposing opinions, and everything is based on facts and calculations. And whom to believe?
      And you figure it out yourself, and don't take a word.
      This article contains some kind of nonsense, which is difficult to comment on. The author is a banal troll. How can you compare the cost of "civil engineering no more than 100 million." Where did it come from? What kind of "civil"? Fishing boat or yacht? In general, complete nonsense. The cost of foreign ships comparable to the Mistral is rarely less than $ 1 billion per unit. So the Russian price for Mistral is more than democratic. The cost of developing a project for some ships exceeds 1 billion euros, and here there are finished products and the production technologies themselves and a bunch of military technologies. In 2010, France just needed money and Russia had it. Such a deal is unlikely today.
  6. andrei332809
    andrei332809 15 December 2013 07: 11 New
    -2
    oo-oo-oo-oo. a pretty penny this mistral will not be frail. and someone is not sickly put in his pocket
    1. major071
      major071 15 December 2013 07: 19 New
      +5
      Good morning, Andrey! hi Damn, after reading the article, such anger appeared, the morning clearly did not set. C (y) ki, almost openly cutting loot. stop
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 15 December 2013 07: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: major071
        Good morning, Andrey!

        good morning is never wassat hi
        Quote: major071
        after reading the article, such anger appeared

        Volodya, there are many of us. but someday anger will require a way out
        1. major071
          major071 15 December 2013 07: 40 New
          +8
          good morning is never

          It happens if in the evening beer hoot. drinks laughing
          1. andrei332809
            andrei332809 15 December 2013 07: 43 New
            +3
            Quote: major071
            It happens if in the evening beer hoot

            well, we don’t have a habit to leave unfinished (under-drunk) work yes
            1. major071
              major071 15 December 2013 07: 50 New
              +7
              andrei332809
              well, we don’t have a habit to leave unfinished (under-drunk) work

              Planning must be done! laughing Calculate your life at least one step ahead. If you know that tomorrow will not be entirely good, do it in advance so that it would be better! good
              1. andrei332809
                andrei332809 15 December 2013 07: 52 New
                +1
                Quote: major071
                , do it in advance so that it would be better

                advice to give everything belay
              2. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 15: 59 New
                +1
                Quote: major071
                Planning must be done!

                That's right! As there is in a proverb: I would know the ransom, I would live in Sochi. Oh, how am I on the eve of the winter Olympics ?!
  7. makarov
    makarov 15 December 2013 07: 28 New
    +5
    The trick is that all decisions on the mistral were taken collectively, naturally under pressure, but collectively. In fact, responsibility should be divided equally. Whether the GDP (?) Will do this is difficult to say. But there is no doubt that he owns the completeness of the information, it remains to observe the reaction to the discoveries in the media.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 15 December 2013 10: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: makarov
      It remains to observe the reaction to the discoveries in the media.


      In the media ??? !!! Yes, in these notorious media, for each OPENING, there will be at least three CLOSES. These media will loop like a hare in the snow.
      1. makarov
        makarov 15 December 2013 11: 26 New
        +1
        SW Gleb.
        Sorry, but do you really write comments not in the media but on the fence?
    2. A.YARY
      A.YARY 15 December 2013 10: 20 New
      +3
      wassat 300 years of execution and 200 years of warning, even if they are divided into all! wassat
  8. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 15 December 2013 07: 52 New
    +5
    "The Taburetkin case lives on!
    His Mistral is the most alive! "

    Interesting - budget overruns without justification, on the basis of a simple one - I want! Why is it not considered as prejudice to the country's defense capability ?!
    But how much has not been completed on the re-equipment and training of aircraft for one reason - lack of money.
    But our IC, for some reason, only bothers to take the apartments of the suspects and specify whether the suspect knew or did not know?
    I think that not knowing the leader, this is already a crime. All the more so if we take into account the consequences of such "ignorance", including a decrease in the country's defense capability. And this applies to the supreme commander-in-chief, and the minister of defense, and their deputies.
  9. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 15 December 2013 08: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: AVV
    , Serdyukov, only for this one contract, you need to give a tower !!!


    HSE is true, but it seems that the Serdyukov’s case lives and will live !!! laughing
    1. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 15 December 2013 08: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: AlexVas44
      It seems that the Serdyukov’s case lives and will live !!!


      Unfortunately you are right!
      Serdyukov has too many followers and receivers!
      But there are no laws on their responsibility! For these laws, they write themselves!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. kafa
    kafa 15 December 2013 08: 36 New
    +2
    I read and I want to swear sad
  11. Troy
    Troy 15 December 2013 09: 16 New
    +1
    In my opinion, with the help of the Accounts Chamber, the whole mass of dough for the Mistral is sawed. So they won’t do this, otherwise there will be such names that .......
  12. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 15 December 2013 09: 29 New
    0
    From the very beginning, the Mistral gamble was a politically biased event, which was carried out to please the illusive "improvements in Russian-French relations." When will the Russian authorities cease to be courteous with the Europeans, to the detriment of Russia's national interests? From the very beginning it was clear that the Mistrals were not adapted for service in the harsh conditions of the Russian seas. And contrary to the opinion of experts, the ships began to be built. The complete irresponsibility of those in power.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 15 December 2013 10: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      The gamble with the Mistrals was from the very beginning a politically biased event, which was carried out to please the ghostly "improving Russian-French relations".


      And how much improved?
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 15 December 2013 17: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      When will the Russian authorities cease to be courteous with the Europeans, to the detriment of Russia's national interests?
  13. Neighbor
    Neighbor 15 December 2013 09: 30 New
    +3
    Duc is not the 37th same year. At 37m for the attempt itself to share the ridge. And now it’s different with us ...
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 15 December 2013 10: 25 New
      +3
      Quote: Neighbor
      Duc is not the 37th same year. At 37m for the attempt itself to share the ridge. And now it’s different with us ...


      In 1937, the scale of sabotage was disproportionately smaller! But even for this incomparably smaller damage, the then Mistral workers of Kurchevsky, Bekauri and other hole-type ones were allowed to spray.
  14. Galan
    Galan 15 December 2013 09: 50 New
    +2
    Soon the Russian Navy will receive 4 royal yachts with remote control from Brussels or Washington for our admirals to sail in the tropics, which is also "necessary".
    There are competent designers who know sailing conditions in the Arctic and near-Arctic zones in Canada, the USA, Russia and the Scandinavian countries. If such ships are needed to protect their own coast, then the participation of our designers is necessary already in the early stages of design, and so "at the first attempt to reach the coast with ice fast ice or with sludge, it will fail, most likely - forever." In this case, there is no other task other than "cutting" the funds.
  15. Horn
    Horn 15 December 2013 10: 02 New
    +4
    Each document has an author. The rural district police department of any Muhosk can find those interested in this particular contract. For some reason, a contract with Iran can be torn up on a far-fetched pretext, but frankly a thieves contract with France is impossible. Makes me think.
    1. typhoon7
      typhoon7 15 December 2013 13: 58 New
      0
      I remember now. pushed this matter for some reason Sechin. He spread rot on our design bureaus, who wanted to participate in the development, and the threads from his hands stretched upward. Therefore, Rogozin quickly cooled down on this topic.
  16. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 15 December 2013 10: 11 New
    +4
    It can be seen that the tentacles of the pro-Westerners penetrated very deeply into the top of the leadership. They breed like children! And you wipe the snot and continue to cooperate with the West. You see, glass beads will begin to steam under the guise of a priceless weapon. But Serdyukov and the company for causing damage to the country in a particularly large size, I would put on a stake, and in public ...
  17. ICT
    ICT 15 December 2013 10: 16 New
    +2
    boats, helicopters, grease cunning all this crap.

    it’s just that the question should already be interesting: is the infrastructure being prepared for the personnel, soon the first one will be completed, and in the east it seems that everyone is again settling in the open field or in old broken apartments, probably no one remembers kindergartens, schools
  18. ReifA
    ReifA 15 December 2013 10: 27 New
    +5
    All interested persons received their share. And the army received a tin can, on which something is written non-Russian.
  19. pahom54
    pahom54 15 December 2013 10: 33 New
    +4
    Actually, it’s strange that all this was already sore ... We’re sitting and sitting in the kitchen and we see and understand everything, but the Commander-in-Chief seems to understand nothing ... It is written in black and white in the contract for the purchase of misrals that this is a corruption deal undermining the economic and defense power of Russia. What more tutt? The Accounts Chamber and the IC must bring the legal base under it and slam this gang that pushed through these contracts and the contracts.
    Look, we feed the French shipbuilders, and ours - we lower it down the drain. How it's called? And what can be called the fact that Russia, which never had friends, will be armed with foreign, rather than its own manufacture, little things?
    It’s a pity, the new Joseph Vissarionovich is not visible on the horizon, it’s a pity ...
  20. koksalek
    koksalek 15 December 2013 10: 51 New
    +2
    Corruption and corruption of senior officials is no longer disguised and not camouflaged. What for? And so there is no punishment and will not be for squandering and misappropriation. Oh, where are the times of Stalin, it’s a pity that they have passed, it’s a pity.
  21. shurup
    shurup 15 December 2013 11: 02 New
    +2
    No mistral can blow the smell of a dirty deal.
    It is a pity that the Cossacks are not doing that, unless of course they are Cossacks.
  22. lukke
    lukke 15 December 2013 11: 42 New
    +1
    What do we expect? For the head of state to stand at a press conference and say that Serdyukov is our joint mistake with DAM? They made this mistake and praised from Zubkov for a long time and to find out what kind of statesman Serdyukov had enough time. Note that those GDPs do not ask a single question on the stool - not politically correct! So everything goes on as usual. We steal wagons - normally, with bags - on bunks.
  23. IGS
    IGS 15 December 2013 11: 46 New
    +9
    You can minus, but these screams are tired. For me, it’s better to let Serdyukov’s business flourish, when everyone here is yelling in bulk that it’s bad that they BOUGHT for the army and navy, and didn’t whine in a rag when SOLD. The aircraft-carrying cruisers Novorossiysk and Minsk went to China for $ 9 million (the new aircraft carrier was already worth a billion), along with the latest air defense systems, radar and navigation equipment. What is not a yell? And more than 50 Pacific Fleet ships. There were already disputes over the Mistrals, they admitted that not everything is as the "all propals" write. Our shipbuilders have promised a lot, read it. But we have little in fact. They do not cope with orders. They would have been building such ships for about 8 years. Tired of this overused topic, as soon as someone needs to be promoted, he remembers Mistral, or Serdyukov. I'm sure that if the order for "Cossacks" was not canceled for the mistrals, this article would not exist. Write an article with performance characteristics, comparative characteristics and COST, including ALL costs, all boats, without shouting "robbed", otherwise very often they ask for 1 ruble per unit of goods, but add: but we need another 1000 to establish production, and TIME of manufacture of the WHOLE batch. And then it turns out somehow strange ... We got together, decided to do it at our own peril and risk, and when it didn't work out ... a cry. This line says about the reason for the article:
    refused it, and not bound by any contractual obligations, of course, did not pay anything for the work done.
    And should I agree and be sure to buy?
    1. lukke
      lukke 15 December 2013 12: 10 New
      +1
      Well, we didn’t scream or whine (as you put it), probably because when the sale was going on, the majority of Russians simply survived. I will keep silent about the presence of the Internet and other things - many were not up to the search for information about transactions with foreign states. The officers committed suicide because they had nothing to feed their family. Information on them was for a very narrow circle, and against the background of the general chaos of the 90s and the Chechen epics, it looked like a childish prank. Now everything is getting better and the criteria, respectively, should be tougher and more adequate, fortunately, the conditions allow - so why should we scribble our positions for "so" here too?
      1. IGS
        IGS 15 December 2013 12: 54 New
        +4
        The fact of the matter is, there were many articles on this topic, they have already come to the conclusion that there will be work for the "mistrals". The article expresses indignation at the technologies that the French do not transfer to us, we do not have these technologies, even if these are "passenger" ships, it takes a lot of time to develop them, and technology is needed now. About the boats. Boats only on "paper" and on computer graphics. Those. a proposal to put the "mistrals" on the joke to rust and eat money for maintenance, while ours will bring them to their senses and set up the production of boats, and this is not less than 2 years. In the meantime, they will stand, we will swear Serdyukov and the French for buying an "unnecessary trough" which stands and rotts, not remembering the support of this article. Correctly you said "more adequate", and not "ours is everything." I remembered the recent similarly outraged article on the VO as the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to pay for super devices ... which are in fact 50 years old and their need for the army, to put it mildly, is doubtful, and given the peculiarities of the Ukrainian army, they are not ... And without the Mistral boats, in the same Arctic campaign, it really is a "passenger ship".
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 15 December 2013 18: 58 New
          0
          Quote: IGS
          The fact of the matter is, there were many articles on this topic, they have already come to the conclusion that there will be work for the "mistrals".

          Who is arguing? That's just the technology is not looking for work after its acquisition. In the old days, I remember, the technique was developed and built for specific tasks.
          Quote: IGS
          The article expresses indignation at the technologies that the French do not transfer to us, we do not have these technologies, even if these are "passenger" ships, it takes a lot of time to develop them, and technology is needed now.

          Well, take an interest in how many ships you can rivet in South Korea for this amount. So that it was ... Because I perceive exactly the following logic behind your lines: it doesn’t matter that without the transfer of technology, it doesn’t matter that the landing equipment is soldered ... The main thing is that the equipment is needed. So let's quickly order the Leopards from Germany a couple of hundred. Why not? Are there really so many modern tanks in Russian aircraft? After all, technology is needed now, and money is burning pockets.
          Quote: IGS
          Those. a proposal to put the "mistrals" on the joke to rust and eat money for maintenance, while ours will bring them to their senses and set up the production of boats, and this is not less than 2 years.

          Do you read through the line? Dugongs and chamois are already produced SERIES!
          1. IGS
            IGS 15 December 2013 20: 47 New
            +2
            Do you read through the line? Dugongs and chamois are already produced SERIES!
            Look and answer one question: will they fit into the docking cameras on the Mistral? Do you cheat with a file?

            Well, take an interest in how many ships you can rivet in South Korea for this amount.
            And even more for the money that we would spend on such ships at home.
            As for tanks ... they are produced by us, we have technologies, and not computer graphics. Do not exaggerate. Are our shipyards capable of building such ships?

            In the old days, I remember, the technique was developed and built for specific tasks.
            I don't know about the tasks .. but the old days will never come back. And the military-industrial complex will have to remember and understand: the military-industrial complex works for the army, and not vice versa. Therefore, there is no need to knock out money under the good slogan: "For the safety of the Motherland" (and quietly) give money to the military-industrial complex. Show the photo of "Cossack". You know, maybe they would have given an order for boats for "mistrals" to ours, if not for one "but", there is no trust in them, there is no certainty that they will not again increase the terms and amounts several times. The ship will stand, and we will hear the old song: "Everything has ruined, we are doing hard work, in fact, we are starting everything from scratch ..." forgetting about our vigorous obligations and rosy promises made at the conclusion of the contract.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 15 December 2013 22: 48 New
              0
              Quote: IGS
              Look and answer one question: will they fit into the docking cameras on the Mistral? Do you cheat with a file?

              Maybe you are the first to look? This question was, as it were, studied initially. And yes, they will fit in. Surprised? In terms of size, only Moray eel does not pass (pr. 12061).
              1. IGS
                IGS 16 December 2013 00: 03 New
                +1
                "Dugong" will fit in the amount of one piece. Of course, you can shove "Chamois". "Chamois" in the amount of 4 pieces, but they will have to be loaded in the port. And I doubt that "Serna" will feel exactly with a tank on board (T-90 46 tons). The French have one significant advantage - two ramps.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 16 December 2013 11: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: IGS
                  "Chamois" in the amount of 4 pieces, but they will have to be loaded in the port.

                  It is interesting. Do not pass on the lees? And how will they leave the dock camera? Also in the port?
                  Quote: IGS
                  And I doubt that "Serna" will feel exactly with a tank on board (T-90 46 tons).

                  T-90 is in service with the Marine Corps? What about the T-72B3?
                  1. IGS
                    IGS 16 December 2013 13: 47 New
                    0
                    It is interesting. Do not pass on the lees? And how will they leave the dock camera? Also in the port?
                    Do not exaggerate, the loading of the "chamois" themselves, you will not open the ramp in the docking chamber, they will stand in a tight formation, unlike the French with their two ramps, one is loaded through the other.
                    T-90 is in service with the Marine Corps? What about the T-72B3?
                    Those. You propose to artificially limit the functionality of the Mistral, only to the delivery of marines, as well as the ability to transport weapons. All this is far-fetched. The main thing is to shove. You still really do "dovgan" along with the "chamois" there, it doesn't matter how and what, but it comes in !. By the way, did you decide to put the Dovgan in there the one that is the only one in the ranks, or will you wait until the others finish it? True, they make as many as "mistral".
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 16 December 2013 20: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: IGS
                      By the way, did you decide to put the Dovgan in there the one that is the only one in the ranks, or will you wait until the others finish it? True, they make as many as "mistral".

                      Are we talking about Dugongs? Yes, so far only Ataman Platov is in service.
                      Quote: http://bmpd.livejournal.com/625933.html
                      Delivery of "Ivan Kartsov" is planned by the end of the year.

                      Quote: http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/21820.html
                      On October 24, from the pier of the Yaroslavl Shipyard (MC CJSC VP FINSUDPROM), a landing boat of project 21820, serial number 701 "Denis Davydov" was sent to the Baltic Sea

                      "Lieutenant Rimsky-Korsakov" and "Midshipman Lermontov", apparently, are in a high degree of readiness or are close to such. So don't exaggerate.
                      http://russian-ships.info/boevye/21820.htm

                      Quote: IGS
                      Those. You propose to artificially limit the functionality of the Mistral, only to the delivery of marines, as well as the ability to transport weapons.
                      Not to limit, but to consider UDC as a priority. How else?
                      1. IGS
                        IGS 16 December 2013 23: 00 New
                        0
                        I'm sorry laughing "Dugong" of course.
                        With the Russian version: Either 1 "Dugong" (which is ridiculous, if one boat is lost, the ship loses its functionality.), Or 4 "Chamois", while "Chamois" will not be able to transport more than 42 tons, i.e. some types of equipment, for example T-90. It is impossible to load the "Sern" in the docking camera, because stand in close formation, load either in the port, or arrange dances with a tambourine, stop the Mistral, open its ramp and re-moor the Chamois. The French do not have these drawbacks with their 2 ramps, and loading can be done directly in the docking chamber without opening the mistral ramp. "Dugong" will fit only 1, although they seem to say that you can also shove "Dugong", just shove it, with all the consequences. The French have 1 L-CAT and 2 CTM NG as standard. Now tell me the benefits.

                        Delivery of "Ivan Kartsov" is planned by the end of the year.
                        Do you want to tell us when it was laid? In 2010, now 2013, by the way, today is December 16, but I would be very happy if this time they keep their promises. The boat "Ataman Platov" was laid down in 2006 and launched in 2009. "Kartsev" is already being built more than "Platov".
                        For reference: Mistral was founded in 2012.
                        And you do not need to exaggerate the paints, they can handle it themselves.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 22: 17 New
            0
            Quote: Flood
            Well, take an interest in how many ships you can rivet in South Korea for this amount. So that it was ... Because I perceive exactly the following logic behind your lines: it doesn’t matter that without the transfer of technology, it doesn’t matter that the landing equipment is soldered ... The main thing is that the equipment is needed. So let's quickly order the Leopards from Germany a couple of hundred. Why not? Are there really so many modern tanks in Russian aircraft? After all, technology is needed now, and money is burning pockets.

            So you, let us enlighten how much such ships cost in South Korea. Just do not indulge, but in fact. For example, Japan is building a similar helicopter carrier at a price of 1.3 billion apiece. And how many such ships do Korea itself have? One ? And how much did it cost you know?
            Or do you want Russia to buy cheap ships for third world countries, like the Daewoo project? These ships are really cheap to manufacture, but it is simply impossible to classify them as UDC.
            Mistral is one of the three most advanced ships of the UDC class. Russia will become the 4th country in the world with a full UDC.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 15 December 2013 22: 44 New
              0
              Quote: Gluxar_
              So you, let us enlighten how much such ships cost in South Korea. Just don't mess around

              do not be rude.
              Quote: Gluxar_
              For example, Japan builds a similar helicopter carrier at a price of 1.3 billion apiece

              Oh whether. First, ask what the Japanese are building. Type "Hyuga" is called a helicopter destroyer for a reason. In fact, it is a light aircraft carrier. And his performance characteristics today are mostly a mystery. And it's very balabolic to compare him with Mistral as well as with any other UDC.
              Quote: http://topwar.ru/11129-noveyshiy-esminec-vertoletonosec-22ddh-heysey-22-tipa-hyu
              ga-nachnut-stroit-v-yaponii.html
              Ships of this class were planned as a replacement for destroyers - Haruna class helicopter carriers. The mission of Heisei 22 is to protect and defend various types of ship formations, confront the enemy’s submarine forces, and the flagship. The ship is capable of moving 4 thousand paratroopers and about 50 trucks to the landing site ...
              In Japan, in connection with the constantly growing military potential of China, they begin to talk about a deep modification of this project to accommodate carrier-based jet aircraft. I would like to note here that Japan announced the basing of 14 PLO helicopters on the ship. But foreign analogues, for example, Cavour, are provided with 16 aircraft and 8 helicopters. So, most likely, Japan deliberately “underestimates” not only the class of the ship, but also the possibility of deploying an air group. Such a small aircraft carrier, if you look, can easily place 20-30 fighter jets on board, and given the purchase of modern weapons and equipment from the United States and the absence of catapults, it is likely that Japan can buy American-made F-35Bs at any time and provide them with a new destroyer-helicopter carrier.

              Quote: Gluxar_
              Russia will become the 4th country in the world with a full UDC.

              Very interesting arithmetic. Someone means did not get on this VIP list. I'll try to guess. Spain? Australia?
        2. lukke
          lukke 15 December 2013 20: 19 New
          0
          have already come to the conclusion that there will be work for the mistrals. The article expresses indignation at the technologies that the French do not transfer to us, we do not have these technologies, even if these are "passenger" ships, it takes a lot of time to develop them, and technology is needed now.

          Let's sort it out: it turns out we take the equipment first - then we think where to stick it? or justify the need to buy it? but at the same time and cut with kickbacks
          Home port for the first Mistral Vladik - Are you up to date with the pier ready for the ship? Maybe in another place, but we don’t know ...
          And more about the "whining": remember the recent Glocks competition? Rogozin had to comment on the prices of the purchased items and make excuses for his son, the competition was declared invalid, or the application was withdrawn altogether, the bottom line is: can we sometimes spread the problem so that there are improvements? How do you think?
          1. IGS
            IGS 15 December 2013 21: 25 New
            0
            Then replicate, for example, the problem of our GLONASS receivers, which our "developed" and in which from the element base only, probably, the body and buttons, and then from imported plastic. I am silent about the price, I don’t dare to name it. And it was possible to do even "better", to go there ten more times and try in ten years to get our receivers completely. True, with even lower quality and unnecessary ones. until that time there would be no satellites left. Do you want it now?
            And about the cut. Do you want to say that there is no cut when placing an order at our facilities? What are you laughing at? The cut reaches 100%, when there is nothing to release at least something. This article is customized. High matters and "homeland security" have nothing to do with it. The data on the figures are inflated and from the OBS (one grandmother said). There is a fight for a piece. About the pier. The money has long been allocated. And not to the French, but to "Spetsstroy", but according to your opinion, the French or the Turks should have allocated it.
            1. lukke
              lukke 15 December 2013 21: 49 New
              +1
              about Glonass, I once wrote here that, apart from the dog VVP, no one has used it in the time frame that Ivanov designated. And then everything was blown away in silence - I was "minus" here. Although I still do not understand the reason))) But GPEs is not an option for Russia
              About cuts here everyone knows the scheme. I agree. But .... you can fight them if you wish. a little easier - namely: we are in our legal field, our legal entities. There, just try to tarnish the bright image of the bourgeois company - everything will translate purely into watered rails
              1. IGS
                IGS 15 December 2013 23: 06 New
                0
                Jeepies will not just not suit us, but on .. not needed. They only recently removed the restriction on the accuracy of definitions for civilians, and if they reintroduced. Here I completely agree with you. I was talking specifically about the receivers.
                And about the rest. Well, I really want my own, and on my own, and well, and right on time. But damn ... next mat smile
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 22: 40 New
            0
            Quote: lukke
            have already come to the conclusion that there will be work for the mistrals. The article expresses indignation at the technologies that the French do not transfer to us, we do not have these technologies, even if these are "passenger" ships, it takes a lot of time to develop them, and technology is needed now.

            Let's sort it out: it turns out we take the equipment first - then we think where to stick it? or justify the need to buy it? but at the same time and cut with kickbacks
            Home port for the first Mistral Vladik - Are you up to date with the pier ready for the ship? Maybe in another place, but we don’t know ...
            And more about the "whining": remember the recent Glocks competition? Rogozin had to comment on the prices of the purchased items and make excuses for his son, the competition was declared invalid, or the application was withdrawn altogether, the bottom line is: can we sometimes spread the problem so that there are improvements? How do you think?

            Don't you think that the whole epic with foreign purchases "spread out" the problems of the domestic military-industrial complex? And some shifts went.
            As for the Mistrals themselves, aren't the 33rd and 36th berths in Vladivostok prepared for the reception of the Mistrals?
            1. lukke
              lukke 15 December 2013 23: 14 New
              0
              I admit everything ...
              About the berths, I know that they have been reconstructed since 2012. Again, an indicator - not every pier is suitable for an overseas little thing) it’s not Rapusha, etc.
              1. Gluxar_
                Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 23: 24 New
                0
                Quote: lukke
                I admit everything ...
                About the berths, I know that they have been reconstructed since 2012. Again, an indicator - not every pier is suitable for an overseas little thing) it’s not Rapusha, etc.

                Of course, not everyone. But it is much more important to look at the reaction of neighbors after the announcement of the deal. Japan has announced that the balance of power in the region will change, probably the unbiased opinion of our potential "competitors" is much more significant than the snot of provocateurs.

                It’s also unpleasant for me to admit that our country should buy something abroad, but if it is to the benefit of the Motherland, then let them buy it.
                And there is work for him. Maybe soon it will be necessary for the pygmies from Saudi Arabia or Qatar to explain that messing with black flags is not good ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 21: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: IGS
      You can minus, but these screams are tired. For me, it’s better to let Serdyukov’s business flourish, when everyone here is yelling in bulk that it’s bad that they BOUGHT for the army and navy, and didn’t whine in a rag when SOLD. The aircraft-carrying cruisers Novorossiysk and Minsk went to China for $ 9 million (the new aircraft carrier was already worth a billion), along with the latest air defense systems, radar and navigation equipment. What is not a yell? And more than 50 Pacific Fleet ships. There were already disputes over the Mistrals, they admitted that not everything is as the "all propals" write. Our shipbuilders have promised a lot, read it. But we have little in fact. They do not cope with orders. They would have been building such ships for about 8 years. Tired of this overused topic, as soon as someone needs to be promoted, he remembers Mistral, or Serdyukov. I'm sure that if the order for "Cossacks" was not canceled for the mistrals, this article would not exist. Write an article with performance characteristics, comparative characteristics and COST, including ALL costs, all boats, without shouting "robbed", otherwise very often they ask for 1 ruble per unit of goods, but add: but we need another 1000 to establish production, and TIME of manufacture of the WHOLE batch. And then it turns out somehow strange ... We got together, decided to do it at our own peril and risk, and when it didn't work out ... a cry. This line says about the reason for the article:
      refused it, and not bound by any contractual obligations, of course, did not pay anything for the work done. Did you have to agree and be sure to buy?

      Quote: IGS
      You can minus, but these screams are tired. For me, it’s better to let Serdyukov’s business flourish, when everyone here is yelling in bulk that it’s bad that they BOUGHT for the army and navy, and didn’t whine in a rag when SOLD. The aircraft-carrying cruisers Novorossiysk and Minsk went to China for $ 9 million (the new aircraft carrier was already worth a billion), along with the latest air defense systems, radar and navigation equipment. What is not a yell? And more than 50 Pacific Fleet ships. There were already disputes over the Mistrals, they admitted that not everything is as the "all propals" write. Our shipbuilders have promised a lot, read it. But we have little in fact. They do not cope with orders. They would have been building such ships for about 8 years. Tired of this overused topic, as soon as someone needs to be promoted, he remembers Mistral, or Serdyukov. I'm sure that if the order for "Cossacks" was not canceled for the mistrals, this article would not exist. Write an article with performance characteristics, comparative characteristics and COST, including ALL costs, all boats, without shouting "robbed", otherwise very often they ask for 1 ruble per unit of goods, but add: but we need another 1000 to establish production, and TIME of manufacture of the WHOLE batch. And then it turns out somehow strange ... We got together, decided to do it at our own peril and risk, and when it didn't work out ... a cry. This line says about the reason for the article:
      refused it, and not bound by any contractual obligations, of course, did not pay anything for the work done. Did you have to agree and be sure to buy?
      I completely agree with such conclusions. I myself have already appreciated the author of such highs and expressed my opinion.
      It should be understood that the article was published in the "opinion" section, and the trolls have their own "opinion", so you just need to minus such an exhaust. Although judging by the estimates, there are still plenty of boobies among the readers.
  24. Corsair
    Corsair 15 December 2013 11: 49 New
    +5
    It's a pity the author did not bother to place in the article the image of "Cossack"
    That's what I managed to find, and even then computer graphics ...
    1. IGS
      IGS 15 December 2013 12: 09 New
      +3
      Ie, as I understand it, they are not even in the hardware? And what about the fact that they have been tested and "run in", and we are not talking?
  25. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 15 December 2013 12: 22 New
    -4
    <<< When the project was ready, the Navy suddenly abandoned it, and not bound by any contractual obligations, of course, did not pay anything for the work done. >>>
    The irresponsibility is shocking: the Navy ordered and, when everything was done, the funds were spent, it refused and let the production with its product spin as it wants, but the Navy has nothing to do with it! Obviously, with such a "Serdyukovism" fixated on imports, communication between the defense industry and the Ministry of Defense did not do without the use of MATA! Today, with its gradual elimination, one must suppose, normal business relations between the defense industry and the Ministry of Defense will be established, without which it is IMPOSSIBLE to saturate the Army and Navy with modern technology within the planned time frame!
    1. IGS
      IGS 15 December 2013 12: 39 New
      +3
      Nobody ordered these boats. They are made only on "paper". You have an interesting position. You will be the first to be outraged that these "mistrals" are standing against the wall and rotting, without going into the fact that they themselves spoke for our boats, which have not been run in and their production has not been adjusted, and that the "Mistrals", already built, are standing while the boats for them will be built and brought to mind.
      Planned dates IMPOSSIBLE!

      With this approach, I completely agree.
      1. Goldmitro
        Goldmitro 15 December 2013 21: 24 New
        0
        <<
        Nobody ordered these boats. They were made only on "paper" .......... not tested and their production is not established, >>>
        I cannot agree with you! The article clearly states - "Our naval sailors found it too little. In addition, they asked the designers of the Nizhegorodskiy Teplokhod (ZNT) plant to create a project for a completely new landing boat. And they, even without a contract in hand, enthusiastically got down to business." And the Sailors "threw" them! I don’t think the Navy’s relationship with production should be based on this behavior! And with such an attitude, we will never have such boats and not only them, if we focus on imports! But it could be: it's still not an aircraft carrier to build! During the construction of the Mistral, we could have made a boat if we had the money! And then where will the sailors turn to when any problems begin to arise with the French "products" - they will repair and rivet spare parts themselves, if the company does not sell them?
        1. IGS
          IGS 15 December 2013 21: 50 New
          +1
          And those, even without a contract in their hands
          Sorry, but that means they concluded behind the bubble when we washed the previous order. Enthusiasm is good. And where is the technical specification for the product? Or is it an essay on a free topic? And what article has appeared just now? In general, read about this "Cossack" yourself will understand everything. The article is ordered. They found money for her.
  26. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 15 December 2013 12: 51 New
    0
    <<< And this is what we get: one "Mistral" of the French Navy "weighs" almost 8 billion rubles, and the Russian Navy - more than 27 billion rubles. The difference is more than three times. And she is sawing somehow. That is why the Accounts Chamber and the Investigative Committee, it seems, is the time to do this "arithmetic". >>>
    Not just arithmetic! This is one more problem to the long existing collection of problems on "Serdyukovshchina", which it is not known WHEN AND BY WHOM will be solved!
    1. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 22: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Goldmitro
      <<< And this is what we get: one "Mistral" of the French Navy "weighs" almost 8 billion rubles, and the Russian Navy - more than 27 billion rubles. The difference is more than three times. And she is sawing somehow. That is why the Accounts Chamber and the Investigative Committee, it seems, is the time to do this "arithmetic". >>>
      Not just arithmetic! This is one more problem to the long existing collection of problems on "Serdyukovshchina", which it is not known WHEN AND BY WHOM will be solved!

      People are enough to be fools. A troll sang for you and you all, like a herd of sheep, go in the direction he needs.
      Where are the real facts of the cost of Mistral for France? Sucked from your finger? There are figures from official sources. In 2000, the cost of two Mistrals for France was 685 million euros, translated into rubles it is 30,8 billion rubles. This is the cost in 2000, and today 2014 is already on the nose. In addition, the projects are different, Russian UDCs are designed for sailing in cold waters, they have increased hull thickness, heated decks, enlarged hangars and much more has been done. In addition, you need to understand that not only the construction technologies of the Mistrals themselves are transferred, but also the same Zenith and much more. In addition, the prices "for their own" are not always final and many things are later "bought", but do not get into the official price list.

      Here is a review on this topic.
      http://www.dfnc.ru/Mirovoy-rinok-sovremennih-krupnih-desantnih-korabley-1

      To whom it is interesting to read, not only the article is relevant, but also the links in the description to the primary sources.
  27. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 15 December 2013 13: 00 New
    +3
    How much can you suffer on this subject. Some kind of idiocy.
  28. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 15 December 2013 13: 10 New
    +2
    Those who are familiar with shipbuilding have probably already read why catamaran type ships are not widely used in the military sphere. The reason for this is the difficulty of maneuvering and the strong dependence on unrest at low speed. You need to enter the landing dock into a very small gate, and this is not an easy task, especially when driving and even using towing devices does not always help. Catamarans, on the other hand, are practically uncontrollable in waves at low speed. They showed somehow the transfer there was an interview with the captain of the catamaran who transported tourists to the Statue of Liberty and drove into the pier when the excitement arose, so he complained that a little wind and excitement were rising, so the mooring turns into flour.
  29. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 15 December 2013 13: 12 New
    +4
    Yesterday I talked with a lady from France, the situation there is awful, the crisis is sweeping. Why not take advantage of this situation and upgrade your "partner"?
    1. Lesnik
      Lesnik 15 December 2013 13: 14 New
      -1
      The point is not to "pump", but to figure out why the domestic analogue of the mistral is three times more expensive than the French
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 16: 10 New
        -1
        Quote: Forestman
        why the domestic analogue of the mistral is three times more expensive than the French

        Helicopter carriers in the EREFia DEFENSE doctrine are registered? What is worse than ekranoplans criticized on the same resource a couple of months ago? Raise old drawings, digitize, apply computer technology, develop TTZ for ekranoplans, open financing and ALGA!
        1. IGS
          IGS 15 December 2013 16: 33 New
          +2
          Do you know how much time it takes only to digitize? And how many technologies were lost due to the collapse of the USSR, which are laid down in the old drawings?
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 21: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: IGS
            how much time will it only take to digitize? And how many technologies are lost, due to the collapse of the USSR, which are inherent in the old

            Ask if there is a freely available program for digitizing drawings; the old is a completely forgotten new, and forgotten even by the sawmen of state loans, it will be easier for young "brains" to work. Novgorod seems to be still within the RF. Dismiss the "mossad employees" with a pension, recruit normal Russian guys, connect subcontractors, and it's not something that will go - it will fly!
            Ask the meaning of the word ALGA.
            Surface ships are the last century in military affairs. Here I am in solidarity with the Bald Maize. For a country with a water area of ​​as much as 14 seas, impact ekranoplanes are an effective solution to the tasks of the coastal fleet. Fuck "Mistral", a couple of ekranoplanes and the task was completed on time! Quickly, efficiently and efficiently, without "landing craft" and other adjective crap.
            1. IGS
              IGS 15 December 2013 22: 02 New
              +1
              And I do not need to be interested. It will take 70 months to digitize the An-14. If you are not going to photocopy. And take an interest in the sum of such work.
  30. homosum20
    homosum20 15 December 2013 13: 20 New
    0
    Really it is impossible to steal not so stupidly. This purchase is divided into two components. First: financial. It is easily considered and is typical of open-ended transactions. Theft in large ones is nothing more. All military departments steal. Recently there was a scandal with the Pentagon. Millions and billions are spent on fake accounts. There is no reason for surprise.
    But what is surprising is contempt for their people. That is, we are considered to be a complete byd.loo, which is not able to add 2 + 2 and today does not remember what they said to him yesterday. That's for this - contempt for your people must be shot. In extreme cases - 10 years without the right to correspond at logging. It is it that ruins the country, dividing it into power, the elite and others that no one asked. It's hard to sound proud when your own government despises you.
    It seems to me that leaving the crimes of Serdyukov and his relatives without harsh punishment is a strategic mistake of the GDP, which will cost him the presidency in the next election.
  31. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 15 December 2013 13: 23 New
    0
    So, everything is simple in this "mysterious" "arithmetic", for some reason everyone forgets that everything that is being built abroad, REGARDLESS for someone, at least for a private owner, at least for the state, must go through CLEARANCE. Moreover, absolutely all materials, and equipment, and the work itself, etc., are cleared through customs. Moreover, the amount of customs clearance for some types of equipment and work may exceed the cost of overseas work, just 2-3 times. The most obvious example is the customs clearance of vehicles. In addition, VAT and tax and duty, etc. are also paid. This is exactly the reason why all ships in Russia are kept abroad. As soon as you start to clear the customs for the annual repair of the vessel, the price of the repair doubles at once, or even in THREE. Therefore, they try to register ships under "flags of convenience". Similar reasons, customs clearance, were also explained by the rise in price of Iveco products, in comparison with Italian counterparts.
  32. APASUS
    APASUS 15 December 2013 14: 09 New
    0
    When the deal was concluded, senior officials from the Russian Ministry of Defense and the government claimed that the French air defense missile systems would be equipped with Russian-made helicopters, weapons and landing equipment. But it was not so.

    Serdyukov and Co. were in such a hurry to get a kickback that they could promise anything, the transaction was carried out in a hurry. This indicates a lack of coordination between the component manufacturer and the customer, because in fact the entire complex should be part of the fleet, and not the deck first and then the helicopters
  33. Senya Gorbunkov
    Senya Gorbunkov 15 December 2013 14: 11 New
    +2
    If we recall the "Soviet propaganda" in which the true intentions of the Western plutocracy were clearly voiced, then no one took it seriously, calling such information "soviet propaganda", now the Russian Federation has lost its superpower status, and therefore the right to possess the highest priorities of independent power - ideology (history ), now there is no one to voice the details of the "secret deals", and the fate of the Kennedy brothers is very clear ..
  34. Cristall
    Cristall 15 December 2013 14: 53 New
    +4
    What is strange, Soviet propaganda seems to be propaganda, but for some reason it is more true than Western sweet ...
    Ehh remember this
  35. Cherdak
    Cherdak 15 December 2013 15: 02 New
    +3
    And why no one reads

    http://topwar.ru/30552-desantnyy-kater-kazak-predstavlen-na-mvms-zavodom-nizhego




    rodskiy-teplohod.html

    Landing boat "Kazak" is presented at IMDS by the plant "Nizhegorodsky motor ship" - note here from July 8, 2013

    The boat can be used as a multifunctional vessel for the delivery of rescue equipment, diving complexes, diving operations at depths of up to 60 meters. The design of the boat will be proposed by the Russian Navy as a replacement and addition to the boats of projects 1176, 1785 and others that are currently in operation.

    The dashing attempt of the Design Bureau of the Nizhny Novgorod Motor Ship Plant to slip it into a set (4 pcs / box) by changing the dimensions to fit in the docking chamber of the Mistral helicopter carrier simply failed. The project is crude, reminiscent of how to make a foreign car Zaporozhets out of a Lada so that it only crawls into the garage.

    You better think about the fate of the landing - because of this undead die
  36. woland05
    woland05 15 December 2013 15: 12 New
    -2
    Curious article, thanks to the author ...
    1. oleq197429
      oleq197429 15 December 2013 17: 46 New
      +2
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4C6oXN9HqA сначала надо посмотреть что это за зверь. но судя по видео у нас такого нет. и я думаю лучше купить готовое чем изобретать ве....
  37. mountain
    mountain 15 December 2013 15: 41 New
    +1
    There are so many waves around this topic that they turned into tsunamis.
  38. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 15 December 2013 15: 53 New
    10
    It indicates that for the French Navy, the average cost of each ship of the Mistral type amounted to about 236 million dollars. This is very similar to the truth.

    The author is mistaken
    The cost of building "Mistral" and "Tonnier" for the French Navy was 685 million euros (911 million dollars) - at 450 + million dollars per ship (together with R&D). It should be noted that this was about 10 years ago - natural inflation during this time amounted to 20-30% of their value.

    Each Russian ship cost 800 million dollars. - revision of projects for Russian requirements, infrared detection system VAMPIR-NG, etc. - that which was not on the first "Mistrals", and of course the profit of the shipyard (the francs are not built at the expense of themselves) - all this increased the cost of the ship

    For comparison - one the American amphibious assault ship San Antonio of similar size and purpose is worth $ 1,5 billion!

    The cost of the Orly Burke-class destroyer with the Aegis system reaches $ 1,8-2 billion!


    San Antonio stealth LPD

    And the cost of civilian courts rarely exceeds 100 million dollars.

    Cruise ship prices typically exceed 1 billion.

    One hundred concerns civilian container ships of similar sizes - they are missing:
    - equipped medical unit at 160 seats
    - military radar and detection equipment, CIUS, command center, not inferior to the American Aegis destroyers
    - hangar deck and 2 helicopter lift
    - 800 tons of jet fuel, gas pumps, fuel lines and related fire safety measures
    - water-filled dock
    - comfortable cabins designed for 450 landing personnel (galley, gym, showers, etc. useful and necessary things on a long trip)
  39. asbaev
    asbaev 15 December 2013 16: 28 New
    -2
    It’s a pity that they do not apply the article Treason to the Homeland.
  40. avg
    avg 15 December 2013 16: 41 New
    +7
    Quote: asbaev
    The author is mistaken
    The cost of building the Mistral and Tonier for the French Navy was 685 million euros (911 million dollars) - 450+ million dollars each for the ship (together with R&D). It should be noted that this was about 10 years ago - natural inflation during this time amounted to 20-30% of their value.

    Most likely the author is not mistaken, but fulfills a certain order. Too biased and one-sided, he operates with unverified data, and this is not the first time. Especially naive businessmen from the Nizhegorodsky Teplokhod plant are touched by them, who, "even without having a contract in their hands, got down to business with enthusiasm." winked In general, before, I literally broke out from such revelations, but life taught healthy skepticism. So we are waiting. yes
    1. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 December 2013 23: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: avg
      Most likely the author is not mistaken, but fulfills a certain order. Too biased and one-sided, he operates with unverified data, and this is not the first time. Especially naive businessmen from the Nizhegorodsky Teplokhod plant are touched by them, who, "even without having a contract in their hands, got down to business with enthusiasm." In general, I used to literally flare up from such revelations, but life taught me healthy skepticism. So we are waiting.

      I'm glad that towards the end of the list of comments, sound reasoning finally starts to appear. Sometimes one gets the impression that the first 10-20 comments are also the work of a group of trolls, so that people "superficial" do not read up to exposing their vychers.
  41. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 15 December 2013 16: 52 New
    +4
    Here the author would have better told when the long-suffering "Admiral Gorshkov" will be completed.
    Yes, he told from what times our BDK, and how many years new are being built.
    The Indian army is generally not capable of fighting weapons from around the world there, it will not be able to fly.
    Technologies will not be transferred. The French will fulfill all the terms of the contract to the last letter, and if the terms of the contract constitute a crime against Russia, then it is necessary to judge the one who signed the contract on the part of the Russian Federation so that others would not be confused, tired of smearing snot on sites, about Mistrals and not only.
  42. Stinger
    Stinger 15 December 2013 16: 52 New
    -1
    One should not breed theory around this. Those sane people who were against this absurdity have long been fired and find consolation in a vulgar proverb: Poverty is not a vice. And the rest is normal. The rollback is normal. So the shot is not idle.
  43. Ppsh
    Ppsh 15 December 2013 17: 46 New
    11
    1. For 10 (TEN!) Years, our defense industry complex has been building "Ivan Gren". A trough of 5000 tons without the latest technologies, with an outdated philosophy of use and outdated REV. Nobody shouts "Drank some dough!" And here for 3 years - almost an aircraft carrier with modern avionics and advanced technologies in equipment and application concepts, which, in principle, are ready to transfer to us.
    2. TTX virtual Kozak wretched ...
    3. We can’t do it ourselves - pay pennies ...
  44. Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 15 December 2013 18: 47 New
    0
    It is clear that Taburetkin, a Judas furniture (so that he could sleep well), waved this contract not because of the urgent need of the Navy in this particular model, but for the convenience of utilizing state money. But now you won’t do anything!
    1) We need well-developed mechanisms of state orders from the Ministry of Defense, when they will order only what is really necessary. And for this, by the way, it is necessary that there be specific persons responsible for this procedure.
    2) From the purchase of "Mistrals" must be squeezed out to the maximum. As our moon-faced friends, carefully study all the engineering solutions of this project, from and to. And, first of all, to decompose the CIUS into atoms.
  45. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 15 December 2013 19: 00 New
    +2
    Well, finally, by the end of the "branch", instead of "poztreots" - shouts aka "missed ... are all polymers!", Sober people pulled up.
  46. common man
    common man 15 December 2013 20: 02 New
    +2
    About "Cossack". To make an over-the-horizon landing at a speed of 11 knots? It is two hours to the shore, then two hours back for the next batch, dock, load, again two hours to the shore. Frivolous somehow.
  47. Sax
    Sax 15 December 2013 21: 02 New
    -1
    Quote: Rattenfanger
    It is clear that Taburetkin, a Judas furniture (so that he could sleep well), waved this contract not because of the urgent need of the Navy in this particular model, but for the convenience of utilizing state money.

    Do you seriously think that contracts of this magnitude are signed without the highest blessing, after analysis by atoms and consultations with particularly close
  48. Genry
    Genry 15 December 2013 21: 36 New
    +3
    For Mistral, Russia will not pay a dime. This is a barter deal - payback by the Soyuz.

    http://www.rb.ru/article/medvedev-i-sarkozi-obmenyalis-korablyami-i-raketami/631
    1287.html

    Consider what Mistral has done with us, with the latest technology and on time!
    As usual, we have comments written by people who do not know anything or with short memory and who do not want to search for open information on the Internet.
  49. Olegmog
    Olegmog 15 December 2013 22: 16 New
    +1
    There is a suspicion that the article was dropped in order to
    see how the two camps of the forum go wall to wall.
    But despite the numerical minority, those who win
    for the fleet replenished with several more combat
    units. And including me. And he drank in Africa ...
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 15 December 2013 23: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: Olegmog
      But despite the numerical minority, those who win
      for the fleet replenished with several more combat
      units. And including me. And he drank

      Thanks to the addition of these "several combat
      units "the fleet received less than a dozen units, the industry received less orders, design bureaus were idle. What is the gain?
  50. vladeinord
    vladeinord 15 December 2013 23: 38 New
    -1
    SUKI, traitors to the HOMELAND !!!