Military Review

And I have a question!

36
On the site "IN" you can find a variety of very interesting materials. It is all the more interesting to read the comments of specialists - even to such a non-military person like me. Of course, it is impossible to cover everything, but sometimes there are materials that may be insignificant at first glance, but, nevertheless, I would like to know the opinion of professionals about them. In no case shall the material posted below be regarded as a derogation or humiliation of Ukraine. Just let's deal with the situation.




“The Ukrainian Danube Shipping Company continues to complain about pirates, trapping in the Romanian and Serbian sections of the great river. The company claims that it suffers major losses due to their activities, but the authorities of Romania and Serbia do not take any measures to combat the criminals.
“Reading the radiograms of captains of the UDP, the question arises: is the Danube River a waterway that mostly runs through the territory of the European Union countries, or somewhere in Somalia? Indeed, according to the statistics of the Ukrainian Danube Shipping Company, most often attacks by pirates on non-self-propelled vessels of an enterprise take place on the territory of Romania, the EU member state, and Serbia, which seeks to join the EU. A comparison with the notorious Gulf unwittingly comes to mind, ”the shipping company notes.

According to the company, the most dangerous section is the area from 240 to 350 of the Danube kilometer, where the pushes are being reformed for passage by the Borca-Bala sleeve. This is the territory of Romania. As a rule, non-self-propelled vessels are subjected to attacks, which during the conductings are at anchorage without observation. Increasingly, captains have noted cases where the local population robs barges during daylight hours without fear of anyone.

Gangsters operating in the Romanian section of the river are terrorizing Ukrainian ships since 2010.

“The first attacks occurred in 2010, when the ship“ Star ”became a victim in the Romanian section of the river. 1745 kg stolen. scrap metal from the Zvezdniy UDP motor ship (according to the information of Romanian diplomats, the suspects were found and the case was transferred to the prosecutor's office, and then to the local court).

At the same time, river corsairs attempted to steal a power cable from the Capitan Antipov motor ship, which was stationed in the roadstead of the Romanian port of Galati. ”

In 2011, attacks on the fleet of the Ukrainian shipping company became regular, especially in the area from 240 to 350 kilometers of the Danube, in a narrow and winding stretch of river. So, right on the move, three tons of corn were stolen from the UDP-1615 barge, and the caravan of the Chelyabinsk motor ship was also robbed.

This year, 4 in January, according to the shipping company, the caravan with barges of the ship “Perm” became the object of the crime of intruders. The barges were attacked by 15 people from among the locals. They demanded alcohol, cigarettes, money, fuel from the crew, they threw the sailor overboard, threatened the skipper, demanding currency from him.

The robbers took everything valuable on the boats, including the sailors' belongings. January 7 attacked a caravan of barges of the ship "Captain Babkin", ITAR-TASS reported press service.

Ukrainian Danube Shipping Company, based in Izmail, Odessa region, is seriously concerned about this issue. “It is necessary to immediately stop illegal acts of violence, arbitrariness and crimes in the Romanian part of the river. The Danube, as a transport corridor for the whole of Europe, should be used exclusively for international and, most importantly, safe shipping ", - quotes the message of the shipping company RIA"News". The General Director of the UDP, Yuri Mickiewicz, noted that “the Romanian authorities are not responding to the demands of the shipping company to stop the gangster attacks.”

5 of October of this year from the ship "Captain Zhidkov" it was reported that during the formation of the composition on the 66 kilometer of Borch's sleeve, the absence of three seals on two units and the embezzlement of wheat through the nasal hole in the hold was detected.

The next day, the captain of the ship "Lviv" reported that during the posting of the train in the daytime they were stolen: from the UDP-1922 - 5 manholes of the side compartments; with SLG-005 - 2 hatch side compartments, chain box lid; with the SLG-020 - 4 hatch side compartments, as well as the cover of the chain box.

On the motor ship "Belgrade" after carrying out the second part of the wagon and returning past the first part, damage to the seals and an attempt to steal three bags of 500 kg of soy concentrate was found. And there are more than a dozen such cases lately. As a rule, cargoes, manhole covers, and power cables are stolen.

For each fact of attack and robbery, the captains of the UDP patrol ships make acts, and also inform the captains of the ports and the local police. However, no reaction is usually followed. As a result, the consignee receives less cargo, and the UDP is subject to fines. ”

* * *

Materials taken from http://oko-planet.su/politik/politiklist/218346-evrointegraciya-rumynskie-piraty.html.

In this case, I am not interested in the fiery assurances of the embassies that patrols have already been created, work is under way, investigation is under way, and so on. I have questions (most likely, to the sailors).

QUESTION 1: Can security patrols be organized on the river? What means?

QUESTION 2: What would you do in case of such an attack on your ship? What is the mistake of our sailors?

QUESTION 3: How can such attacks and robberies occur at all? On boarding, or something, take?


I will wait for your answers, and thank you for accepting to your friendly community!

Sincerely, Egoza. hi

Materials used: http://ur-2222.livejournal.com/1642660.html
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  1. Sunjar
    Sunjar 12 November 2013 06: 31 New
    +3
    If the leadership of the Danube Shipping Company is one courage, then nothing will save them. And judging by everything described just like that.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 06: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: Sunjar
      If the leadership of the Danube Shipping Company is one courage,

      And what does the leadership have to do with it, the border guards are a hundred and on the other hand. With the Romanians, it’s clear how Turkey turns a blind eye to the bandits, and what about the Ukrainian authorities? They are generally present there, if so then it is really not clear how to rob vessels on the river request
      1. krasin
        krasin 12 November 2013 09: 32 New
        +8
        It's ridiculous! Have come! By God a circus! Some tribes ... they don’t eat people there ??? lol
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 12 November 2013 10: 54 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It is necessary (possible) to rob vessels on the Danube River

        Alexander. hi
        In this interpretation, it sounds sweeter for hearing and perception.
        A person (Egoza) has a sore soul, he asks for our participation.
        Here is an entire article from http://www.newsru.com/world/11nov2013/pirates.html
        contributes to the discussion here.
        QUESTION 1: Can security patrols be organized on the river? What means?
        QUESTION 2: What would you do in case of such an attack on your ship? What is the mistake of our sailors?
        QUESTION 3: How can such attacks and robberies occur at all? On boarding, or something, take?

        Answer 1: There are police officers for this.
        Answer 2: Call the police, Call the consul. Use the experience of others, "The incident with the tanker" Moscow University "" (what the team did).
        Answer 3: River barges have a side height (above water level) of 1,6 to 2,2 meters. There is no great problem to perch on it.
        And most importantly, it is to insure goods in European insurance offices and comply with the terms of insurance contracts.
        Ukraine will be able to use its favorite technique "its own problems at the expense of others." The EU will restore order after the deployment of 2-3 battalions of "police peacekeepers" from the US Marines. good
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 12 November 2013 15: 16 New
          +1
          Yes, you are generally strange. What does it mean to insure ships ?! What is it - to pay, or what? So after all it is to Ukrainian companies all around "owe", and they are nobody! Everyone knows that! In general, under such an inhuman, absolutely unacceptable condition, the problem is not worth a damn ... but after all, neither the author of the article nor the shipping company even thought of such an answer.
          No, it can be otherwise. You can make the Romanian police remove their raking paws ... that is, I wanted to say to catch and punish completely unknown mysterious robbers. For this, the country where the shipping company is located must have a certain international authority. Also, you understand, it’s unreal ... The Marines are not necessary smile The problem is solved by a couple of calls from the capital, what marines, what do you ...
          Funny, a lot of people suddenly began to live in the belief that law and order are something natural, as if inherent in the atmosphere as a smell to subtle spirits. Dear Fidget, we must fight for law and order. It is difficult, difficult, dreary and this work has no end. People of the sovereign service spend their lives trying to at least slightly approve the law and order. And your authorities are not concerned about anything at all, and the world community is responding adequately. That's all ...
      3. Kars
        Kars 12 November 2013 14: 45 New
        +1
        As for theft - I heard that trains are also robbed. Coal is stolen on the go. This is the case.

        Are you interested in the issue of exclusively robbing vessels flying the Ukrainian flag? Or is it all in a row?
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        But what about the Ukrainian authorities? They are generally present there

        How can they attend the territory of Romania or Serbia?
        Cargo needs to be insured and pulling interpol is their competence.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 12 November 2013 16: 59 New
          +1
          Not everything. Why do you think Russia recognized Soviet debts? Why do we abide by the terms of the contracts, even the most unprofitable, once we have concluded them? There is a reason...
          When Ukraine refused to pay for gas, and at the same time did not declare itself bankrupt and simply trampled on with a drill - it was a step. Step into the abyss. For example, Somalia cannot control its pirates. Well, it cannot and cannot ... but if someone has a whim of Negroes to shoot or take something away, sort of like belonging to the Somalis, he will have no problems other than technical ones. No one would lift a finger to comply with Somali property at least some kind of legality. So, they will pretend ... That's how Romanians are.
          Only the USA has the audacity to behave this way. Instead of the law, they have mountains of weapons ... but even they cannot do what they want! Even they need the approval of the international community. And even they would not have gotten away with a brazen robbery "out of bounds". So it’s not strange that the Ukrainian ships are being bullied. The funny thing is why they don't gut everything else! Do you know why? Russia will be against it. This is exactly what the neighbors think, as long as Ukrainians are blinded by "European integration". It will be indescribably fun to watch all this happen. "What, the Russians really kicked out Ukraine ?! Aha !! Well, they drove it !!" Hold on, mom, for the panties ...
          1. alone
            alone 12 November 2013 18: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: Mikhail3
            For example, Somalia cannot control its pirates.


            Somalia does not control anything at all. The country is actually divided into five or six warring parties.
    2. alone
      alone 12 November 2013 19: 05 New
      +1
      QUESTION 1: Can security patrols be organized on the river? What means?
      QUESTION 2: What would you do in case of such an attack on your ship? What is the mistake of our sailors?
      QUESTION 3: How can such attacks and robberies occur at all? On boarding, or something, take?


      1. If the Romanian Serbian services are not able to ensure the safety of ships, the company can form an armed guard and include their composition of teams.
      2. It is possible that the attackers are armed, but the sailors are unarmed. In such circumstances, blaming the sailors is wrong. If I had a gun I would have opened warning fire.
      3. It’s quite possible. Somali pirates boarded ocean-going ships, whose board is much higher than that of river barges.
  2. Canep
    Canep 12 November 2013 06: 47 New
    14
    The tip for UDP is to hire a private military company. After the shooting of 5-10 pirates, the number of attacks should be sharply reduced, it is enough to have 6 armed fighters on board. As for the legality of such protection, I do not know.
    In general, this is news! Samolian pirates in the waters of the Romanian Danube.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 12 November 2013 06: 59 New
      +2
      Their gut is thin - ROMANIA, as a member of NATO, will immediately scream about the attack and will demand protection with the annexation of part of UKRAINE (a known technique)
      1. Very old
        Very old 12 November 2013 07: 47 New
        +3
        LEHOHA, I would have to say so in parentheses- (Romania as NATO MEMBER)
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 12 November 2013 07: 54 New
          +1
          smile TRUE - to the point.
      2. starhina01
        starhina01 12 November 2013 07: 57 New
        +4
        but why can't the Romanians hire guards for several flights? their people they will deal with them much faster hi insure the same cargo in romania hi
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 12 November 2013 09: 01 New
          +7
          QUESTION 3: How can such attacks and robberies occur at all? On boarding, or something, take?
          There is no such thing as stolen in the Navy - there is (how to put it mildly) "in love".
          If stolen from a barge standing near the shore and not guarded by anyone - so what you wanted from the gypsies is one thing.
          And when on the ship - here either the shift on the move sleeps, or they sold it themselves.
      3. Grandson of Veteran
        Grandson of Veteran 12 November 2013 10: 46 New
        +1
        "ROMANIA as a NATO member"
        And they say, this is not robbery, this is the training of special forces of the Marine Corps! laughing
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 12 November 2013 18: 17 New
      +1
      Romanians will drive into the barge with a dozen bursts of large-caliber. After the trash (I mean the mercenaries) dies, the Romanians will turn to NATO structures for protection from the attack of its civilians by Ukrainian armed bandits. Possessing iron proof, scum then fired before peaceful Romanians used their legal weapons on their territory, Romania will at least cover the borders of Ukraine the way she, Romania, wants. And then also repaired laughing
  3. andrei332809
    andrei332809 12 November 2013 06: 51 New
    +3
    Nuuuu, it’s Romanians ... proud gypsies, they used to steal horses, but now it’s the 21 century. just quarreled with the head against their greatness and independence. and the Serbs, I think, the situation is a little different - they themselves have to fight back in all directions from European well-wishers, they can’t keep track of it, they don’t have enough forces
    1. Grandson of Veteran
      Grandson of Veteran 12 November 2013 10: 44 New
      +3
      Yes, what a Somalia! Somalis are legendary filibusters compared to romale! Those at least whole ships will be communized, the same corn and scrap! I'm in shock! EU, civilization! laughing
  4. makarov
    makarov 12 November 2013 06: 55 New
    +7
    ".. The Ukrainian Danube Shipping Company continues to complain about pirates who hunt in the Romanian and Serbian sections of the great river. The company claims that it suffers heavy losses because of their activities, but the authorities of Romania and Serbia do not take any measures to combat criminals ..."
    Uv. author. Why, the question is on a different plane. The Ukrainian dunparking company "has long been a private company stolen from the state, and as an ordinary citizen I do not care deeply about its interests. Everything is quite logical, do you really think that the owners care for the State? There are no Vereshchagins there. They have been expelled, driven into need. Therefore, I consider your material is not relevant.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 12 November 2013 12: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: makarov
      But the question is on a different plane


      Yes, the article hinted that if Ukraine joins the CU ... then Russia will help here and send the aircraft carrier to the Danube wassat even Dear Fidget added her fly in the ointment of the blackening of her country .. no longer found any information ....
      1. Egoza
        12 November 2013 14: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: smersh70
        Yes, the article hinted that if Ukraine joins the CU ... then Russia will help here

        Wrong, dear! in this case I am interested in the purely technical side of the issue. Simply, when they wrote about Somali pirates, one could imagine armed pirates sailing up in a hundred small boats, some holding the crew at gunpoint, some quickly throwing machine guns into the boats and sailing away at a run. Well, what about here? After all, they rob in tons! Lni what, they pull the barge with them? And nowhere is it mentioned that they are armed. That's why I asked the men. So these issues have nothing to do with either the vehicle or the "kick" of Ukraine. However, "who hurts what" hi
  5. negeroi
    negeroi 12 November 2013 07: 01 New
    +4
    Theft on the Danube is a familiar and very ANCIENT tradition of local gypsies, who misunderstandably call themselves Romanians. Kusturica made a great film about the prosperity of local barons, and the mutually beneficial business of local filibusters and passing captains. I don't know how much fiction is in the film, but I think that the captains' statements in at least 50% of cases, uh ... theft, is just an element of mutually beneficial machinations. Of course, captains declare loss and theft. And how could it be otherwise, drying, damping, and other Somali troubles. And the captain is clean, and the documents about the incident simply shout about the crystal honesty of the captains. Something tells me that the pirates know exactly the time of passage of the "necessary" vessel, and even the container number, or with millimeter precision, the place on the deck where the rigging has weakened. And where did they come from It is a mystery, however, the Romanian authorities cannot react in any way, the King rules there, and the king takes care of his barons, what does the government have to do with it, where does the ruler come from? food?
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 12 November 2013 07: 09 New
      +2
      As they say the mafia is immortal - in the era of capitalist relations, the main thing is to grab more and not pay anything.
    2. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 12 November 2013 09: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: negeroi
      Theft - ANCIENT tradition of local gypsies

      Buzescu - the capital of gypsy millionaires
      In Romania, near Bucharest is one of the richest cities in the world - Gypsy Bucescu. There are about 800 houses in it, each costing from 2 to 30 million dollars. This is Beverly Hills No. 2 - the capital of gypsy millionaires.
      http://bigpicture.ru/?p=330353








    3. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 12 November 2013 10: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: negeroi
      pirates know exactly the time of passage of the "necessary" vessel, and even the container number, or, to the nearest millimeter, the place on the deck where the rigging has weakened. And how do they know this?

      There is no mystery here! Everything is easier than steamed corn. This gypsy guessed it!!
      And pay attention to what disappears! Corn-3 tons, soy concentrate tried to steal 1,5 tons. This is to eat a little. And the covers of hatches and boxes, on them that food and cook! lol
      1. negeroi
        negeroi 12 November 2013 12: 03 New
        +1
        Gy) What you are however! You see three meters in depth, and you will not mind. :)
  6. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 12 November 2013 07: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: Canep
    As for the legality of such protection, I do not know.

    hi Great thought, and about the rule of law ...so the law is like a drawbar..., would be after a lawyer literate! winked
  7. Revolver
    Revolver 12 November 2013 07: 23 New
    +7
    Romanians have it in their blood. They boast that they come from the Romans, from that great Roman Empire. This is so, but for some reason the Romanians do not like to recall that in those days what was now Romania was that very remote province where thieves and prosperity were exiled from the mother country.
    1. Very old
      Very old 12 November 2013 07: 45 New
      +4
      Rome the Great, at times already distant, conquered lands right up to the Danube, turning the local population into slaves and tributaries. What to boast about?
      In the new history, Romania is just a slut, for such it is "held" by everyone, everything, everything ...
    2. Djozz
      Djozz 12 November 2013 09: 54 New
      +3
      Romanians regard the Dacian tribes, completely exterminated by Rome, as the Russians treat the Papuans! Dacians in their coffins turn over from the "kinship" of the Chavels.
  8. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 November 2013 07: 37 New
    +2
    Russia would quickly resolve this issue! And since Ukraine is turning our nose off, alas, we can’t help (((Romania has already begun robbing Ukraine (cunning rooobyat) bully
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 12 November 2013 10: 39 New
      +1
      Yanukovych anything if only not with Russia. The joke itself suggests itself, where it poked his eye so that the neighbor had twice as much, i.e. two eyes gouged out.
  9. Sterlya
    Sterlya 12 November 2013 07: 53 New
    +1
    let them finish off the cruiser to Nikolaev. and the protection of shipping on the Danube winked what is free Ukraine worth in integration with the EU
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. ZU-23
    ZU-23 12 November 2013 08: 25 New
    +1
    Yes, Ukraine has already got in and there is nothing to advise, because the greed of Ukrainian entrepreneurs and the lawlessness of the Romanian authorities will not help to solve this problem. Europe is already ridiculous, the same poits just look civilized)))
  12. major071
    major071 12 November 2013 08: 42 New
    +6
    Near the Romanians from the Somalis left.
    The Russian legislation criminalizes piracy under article 227 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, according to which piracy is an attack on a sea or river vessel in order to seize other people's property, committed with the use of violence or with the threat of its use.
    The pirate is declared hostis humani generis (lat.), I.e. enemy of the human race, and therefore subject to trial and punishment in any country. International practice allows the destruction of pirates by anyone without declaring war. However, pirates taken prisoner must be brought before a proper judicial authority and their case must be tried in accordance with the law.
    The definition of piracy and methods of combating it are contained in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which entered into force on November 16 1994.
    Unfortunately, I did not find anything else.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 12 November 2013 10: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: major071
      However, pirates taken prisoner must be brought before a proper judicial authority and their case must be tried in accordance with the law.

      Well, you can not capture them, or just let them go, on the high seas, in a boat without navigation and engine.
  13. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 12 November 2013 08: 57 New
    +2
    from the Don.
    And what do the Ukrainians want if they were shod by Romanians with an island. They gave the gypsies 1 time slack, and here are the echoes.
  14. ed65b
    ed65b 12 November 2013 09: 22 New
    +3
    Gypsies-s, steal-s. laughing
  15. ded_73
    ded_73 12 November 2013 10: 34 New
    +1
    Ale, smart guys! The girl asked three specific questions - give three specific answers. And then spread like a cape on a tree.
    1. Vanya Ivanov
      Vanya Ivanov 12 November 2013 11: 27 New
      +2
      Yeah. You might think that experts gathered here on international maritime, river law. Many have not seen much water. The councils will be like a bomb on them ... it was not at the address that she asked for an answer to questions.
  16. zloi_dekabr
    zloi_dekabr 12 November 2013 11: 34 New
    +2
    1. River police should be involved in the protection, and if the river is borderline, then the border guards. 2. Sailors have internal circulars on how to behave when attacked by pirates. Are there any similar C.U. at rivermen - I do not know. I can say that in the case of an attack by pirates it is strongly recommended that you get too sick in the compartments and scream for help at all frequencies))) 3. Well, it was true that it was easier to organize such an activity, taking the crew as a share))) Although the usual boarding on the river, where the speed is a maximum of 10 knots and the side height is 2 meters, in my opinion is not a problem))
  17. TAGIR
    TAGIR 12 November 2013 11: 37 New
    +1
    You just need to fly under the Russian flag
  18. negeroi
    negeroi 12 November 2013 12: 18 New
    +1
    A team of experienced insurance agents, Persons half the captains, and will agree with the river authorities of Romania, explaining the alternative, and the question will fade away by itself. And since this did not happen. It is completely clear that in a situation, or rather in maintaining the status quo, dofig is interested in the people. about resolving an issue when it was always resolved in only one way .... ???? By force, the issue was always resolved and resolved. By the force of the Law and a bit of force support in the case of a brigade of insurers. And when this is not possible, by the force of the Navy and a bit of legal support .But in principle, insurance investigators aren’t just eating a dog on such matters, they are people who look like gray-haired maremans and ask evil attorneys for a lawyer. All interested people know about this. Insurers take expensive. Yes, but the avaricious pays twice.
  19. Corsair
    Corsair 12 November 2013 13: 51 New
    +2
    The title of the article:
    And I have a question!

    And I have the answer! Nick-name Corsairobliges "dot the "i" " laughing
    Romanians, read Gypsies, will not miss the opportunity to "pull together" everything "good" and "bad".
    And the connivance of the authorities is explained by general corruption and inability to influence the situation ...

    Photo: Gypsy courtyard, if you do not live in a European way, then at least SOMEONE, "side by side" ...
    Clickable Image:
    1. The comment was deleted.
  20. nikcris
    nikcris 12 November 2013 14: 01 New
    +2
    Emir Kusturica has long answered all three questions. bully
  21. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 12 November 2013 14: 28 New
    +1
    Gangsters operating in the Romanian section of the river are terrorizing Ukrainian ships since 2010.

    They associate you a discount for robbery, as they will almost do their own)))
  22. Egoza
    12 November 2013 14: 35 New
    0
    Thanks to everyone who responded! hi
  23. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 12 November 2013 15: 05 New
    +1
    I could be wrong, but from publications on the subject of Somali pirates, I realized that the Law of the Sea prohibits the arming of civilian vessels and their crews. Only military sailors can deal with pirates.
    Hence the problem.
    PS A brother will come from the sea to torment him on this subject.
  24. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 12 November 2013 15: 40 New
    +1
    In connection with the first lines of the material, the film "Black Cat. White Cat" by Emir Kusturitsa immediately came to mind.